Episode 96 features Charles Bates, who you may know as Chaz, Yahzick, The DM, The Bard, or the previous episode.
We continue the discussion by talking about the things we enjoy consuming on pixelated screens, sportsmanship, looking back, goals, attention, starving artists, growth, and much much more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Story vs. World
- Movies and shows we enjoy
- Quick dialogue
- The Binge
- Star Trek
- RuPaul’s Drag Race
- Sportsmanship
- What’s your price?
- Looking Back
- Attention
- Audience Expectations
- Growth
- The Starving Artist
- Sharing yourself
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:03 – 00:00:25:33
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer. Dot com Palmer’s trek continues with Star Trek The Animated Series. The Gum Thief wears the rose colored glasses of nostalgia well, and no, this isn’t a repeat. Charles is back for a second straight episode. To continue the discussion, we talk about the things we enjoy consuming on pixelated screens sportsmanship, looking back, goals, attention, starving artists, growth, and much, much more.
00:00:25:37 – 00:00:59:40
Agent Palmer
Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:59:45 – 00:01:21:58
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stern. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 96th episode is the Return of the DM the Bard. Yahzick chairs the man, the myth, the legend. Charles Bates. As a quick refresher, Charles is the DM in a series of videos on the YouTube channel Man Shorts. That’s M n shorts.
00:01:22:03 – 00:01:52:10
Agent Palmer
That channel also hosts a series titled Drunk Before Noon and many other videos. If you also enjoyed this conversation, as I hope you enjoyed the last, you should definitely check out his channel. This is an anomaly. Not because Charles is back for a second time, but because of what you’re about to hear. This episode is the original one final question from episode 95, but it was worth keeping as a singular conversation because it’s much longer than those questions and answers tend to be.
00:01:52:19 – 00:02:26:01
Agent Palmer
And with the magic of editing, both last episode and this episode still get one final question. The other thing to mention is that in 95 episodes, this is the first time a one final question has turned into its own episode. Honestly, it’s more of a surprise that it took this long for it to happen. So in the interest of keeping everyone informed when we talk about earlier, what we really mean is the last episode, episode 95, though this will stand on its own, and you don’t have to have heard that episode to continue on with this one.
00:02:26:06 – 00:02:52:54
Agent Palmer
So what are you going to hear this time? Well, we dissect the parts of media that we enjoy most. We talk about sportsmanship, attention, audience expectations, discover some of our similarities, setting goals and consider our price. All of that and a whole lot more is coming your way shortly. But first, remember if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all the contact information for Charles and myself in the show notes.
00:02:52:59 – 00:03:16:21
Agent Palmer
You can watch Charles content on the Man Shorts channel. That’s Matt, and as in YouTube.com slash Man shorts. There you can find the D and D editions Drunk Before Noon and the video of his podcast part advice. You can also listen to his music on YouTube or Spotify by looking up Yahzick. That’s why H. Zakk. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com.
00:03:16:21 – 00:03:29:51
Agent Palmer
And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, take it away. Chaz.
00:03:29:56 – 00:03:47:32
Charles Bates
Do you find yourself enjoying the world more than the plot, or more than the characters, or. I guess the real question is, what do you find yourself most attracted to in the story? Is it the characters? Is it the plot? Is it the world, or is it a combination?
00:03:47:37 – 00:04:18:52
Agent Palmer
I think, I’m in a weird spot with my consuming, as a consumer of things. I’m, as we record this, I’m. I’ve read through all but one and a half of Len Dayton’s bibliography, which is like 47 books and the last trilogy that I’m in the middle of right now is part of a series of trilogies.
00:04:18:52 – 00:04:25:35
Agent Palmer
So I’m in the middle right now. I’m in the middle of a world that I have kind of been following.
00:04:25:35 – 00:04:26:37
Charles Bates
In for a while.
00:04:26:38 – 00:04:50:47
Agent Palmer
I’ve been in for a while. Right. And and more to the point, I’ve been in this author for a lot longer than that too. So for this particular thing, it’s all of the things, right? But when I generally first pick up a book, I think for me it’s the story first and foremost. Now obviously the world has some impact on that.
00:04:50:47 – 00:05:12:10
Agent Palmer
But like, I think it’s the story because I’m not, as I said, I don’t want to read the back cover and I don’t want to read the entire thing, and I don’t want to see the trailer, and I just kind of want to be let the read, like, experience it the first time. And because there’s so much, I’m pretty much experiencing everything only for one time, right?
00:05:12:10 – 00:05:34:41
Agent Palmer
Like, I there’s so much out there I don’t have time to reread a book. So the story is really the takeaway and for me, after the story comes the dialog, because I am in love with great writing. Like, yeah, I, I’ve no, I’ve not seen avatar ever.
00:05:34:45 – 00:05:36:06
Charles Bates
The original, the original.
00:05:36:06 – 00:05:50:44
Agent Palmer
And so I didn’t see the sequel. But then like after a decade, you know, people find out I haven’t seen it and they’re like, yeah, but you got to see the, like, the majesty of the visuals. And I was like, I’m not a visual person. I’m a story person. And they’re like, oh, and this is what happens.
00:05:50:49 – 00:06:05:54
Agent Palmer
I oh, you’re a story person. Yeah, I’m a story person. What’s the story like? And then they all always say the same thing you see in FernGully. Yes, I have. Well, then you don’t need to see avatar like so, you know. Yeah.
00:06:05:55 – 00:06:07:51
Charles Bates
I mean, they’re not wrong.
00:06:07:56 – 00:06:27:43
Agent Palmer
So I don’t know. I guess that means that I’m definitely a story guy. And then and then and then a dialog guy and maybe a character guy, and then, like, the the the flash is like the special effects, like, that’s I don’t, it I can take it or. Yeah.
00:06:27:48 – 00:06:48:31
Charles Bates
I’m, I’m kind of the same. Like, I honestly, watching a Coen’s Coen brothers movie is like, the thing about the Coen brothers is that it’s like, yeah, it’s going to probably be a really good story, but it’s going to be a lot of exposition to get there. Dude, it’s going to be a lot of just like 92nd shots of silence.
00:06:48:36 – 00:07:08:34
Charles Bates
I think that for me, I’m, you know, and I spoke a lot earlier about how I love the world over the story. And that is true in regard to specific things, like with Star Wars, with Harry Potter, even with Marvel, like, I love the world of Marvel, but like you know, I don’t really care about whatever your Civil War story is.
00:07:08:34 – 00:07:16:02
Charles Bates
I just, I don’t care, and I also am, but I’d say that first and foremost, I need characters.
00:07:16:02 – 00:07:16:58
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:07:17:03 – 00:07:43:33
Charles Bates
And so, like, I’d say that the, the most glaring example of where it happened recently was my, watching through Ted Lasso, because I think the Ted Lasso is a not only a masterclass in just acting, but it’s a Degas because I think that he’s brilliant, but I think that it’s also a masterclass in how you can get people to fall in love with a show that is pretty much carried by one character.
00:07:43:38 – 00:08:10:43
Charles Bates
Okay? Like, you could very easily swap in and out or remove entirely pretty much everybody on that show except him, and it would still work. I mean, just the plot is insane. Somebody hires, high school or or rather a college football coach to come and coach a soccer team in London. It’s insane. Why would anybody ever watch that?
00:08:10:43 – 00:08:19:20
Charles Bates
But if you watched the first episode, you fall in love with his character in the first three minutes of the show, and so you’ll follow him anywhere.
00:08:19:25 – 00:08:23:10
Agent Palmer
So I want I want to ask you about dialog for a second, right. Because obviously.
00:08:23:10 – 00:08:24:06
Charles Bates
It’s related.
00:08:24:11 – 00:08:51:58
Agent Palmer
To characters, but like two of my favorite shows, TV of all time are West Wing and Gilmore Girls, which have more dialog per minute or per episode than like any other show out there. And I think as unrealistic as it is for people to talk like that, as a consumer, I just love that every character has a story to tell, even if it’s just like, how’s your day?
00:08:52:03 – 00:09:15:33
Agent Palmer
Well, 45 seconds of as many words and syllables as I can fit into this. I’m going to answer your question, and I don’t I don’t know why that speaks to me. Aside from the fact that I have a podcast about bringing back the long form conversation, and maybe that’s kind of where it comes from. But like those kind of shows where like, it’s dialog heavy, like, yes, give, give, give me more.
00:09:15:38 – 00:09:37:21
Charles Bates
Yeah, I, I’m, I’m that way as well. You know, it’s funny you mentioned Gilmore Girls that is, Melissa’s favorite show or maybe not her favorite, but it’s one of her favorites. And it’s for that reason, it’s that quick paced and it’s funny, too, because if you watch the videos, the man shorts editions, they get the the dialog gets quicker.
00:09:37:25 – 00:09:57:54
Charles Bates
Over the years, the the the the early episodes, the cuts are so long. It’s there’s just so much space at like like Go lands or say something and then there’s just this pause and like if you just compare the old stuff to like a newer video, it’s just gotten faster. And that’s just the nature of I like that too.
00:09:57:54 – 00:10:17:43
Charles Bates
I prefer to consume stuff like quick and fast, and I think that’s some of the funnier stuff. And it’s just like, like, I think Frazier did a pretty good job of that, too, like where I would just be like bop at a pop at that, but about but about the that, that the that, the joke. And then it’s like, yes, I really I can relate to that kind of, I guess like organized chaos.
00:10:17:48 – 00:10:24:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I think, yeah, I don’t is it even chaos? Like it always seemed like I know it’s people.
00:10:24:08 – 00:10:25:42
Charles Bates
But it’s kind of surgical, I guess.
00:10:25:42 – 00:10:26:12
Agent Palmer
Oh my God.
00:10:26:12 – 00:10:32:35
Charles Bates
I wouldn’t call the West Wing chaos that was like very, you know, surgically put together.
00:10:32:40 – 00:10:35:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I also think that because I.
00:10:35:09 – 00:10:36:39
Charles Bates
It feels chaotic.
00:10:36:44 – 00:11:03:07
Agent Palmer
I binged all of man’s shorts. I don’t know if I noticed as much because it’s it’s just a general progression. Right. Like I don’t. Yeah. It’s it’s, it’s the difference is like when you watch. So. All right I’m currently in the middle of a track journey. I never watch Star Trek and now I, I started at the beginning of next Gen.
00:11:03:08 – 00:11:13:08
Agent Palmer
Oh, I know that I started from the beginning like I watched the original series. I watched the animated series, I watched all the original series movies, and I just started next gen.
00:11:13:13 – 00:11:19:00
Charles Bates
Oh, I am so excited for you. Next gen is the best one.
00:11:19:12 – 00:11:20:25
Agent Palmer
Because, well, oh.
00:11:20:26 – 00:11:21:20
Charles Bates
I’m so excited.
00:11:21:20 – 00:11:26:08
Agent Palmer
But don’t. But here’s the thing. So I’m then going on and doing like all of them like.
00:11:26:08 – 00:11:27:14
Charles Bates
Iconic bass and.
00:11:27:14 – 00:11:52:34
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, I’m gonna. But the thing is there’s such a and I know there was some overlap there, but I wanted to do like the original cast and then the next gen cast and kind of like keep it all together, but like, you don’t notice necessarily the differences until there’s massive jumps, right? Like from the the original series and the animated series, to a certain extent, kind of similar.
00:11:52:46 – 00:12:18:16
Agent Palmer
Then it jumps when it goes to the big screen, and then when you go from the original cast to next gen, it’s vastly different. But because it’s an era of television I’m more intimately familiar with in the late 60s, I it it’s just home. Like I know it’s Star Trek, but like it’s just home. These are I expect the commercial breaks when they come like, I’m I’m paced.
00:12:18:16 – 00:12:37:12
Agent Palmer
This is what I grew up with. I know where it all is. And now, because everything else is basically, I’ve just been watching television for the last 20 years. Like, I’ll get there. But you, there are things you miss out on by either not having time because you just jump from one to the next or vice versa.
00:12:37:13 – 00:12:50:22
Agent Palmer
So yeah, I, that’s going to be, yeah, it’s going to be, and it’s it’ll it’ll be it’ll be fun. I don’t know, I don’t know what I got myself into, but at a certain point I was like, I, I need to watch this.
00:12:50:22 – 00:13:11:07
Charles Bates
Yeah. It’s, I consume a lot of stuff. I’ve been watching the new episode, the new season of RuPaul’s Drag Race. Oh, and I’ll just say a quick note on that. Something that was super cool. I saw what might have been in the last episode, or it wasn’t. Maybe the last one, but the one before. I think it was episode nine or something.
00:13:11:12 – 00:13:38:54
Charles Bates
What might have been like the most? Like what might have been the best display of sportsmanship I’ve ever seen? Okay, on that show. So essentially you had these. There were three drag queens that were left at the end. They did this lip sync off. So there was a bunch of different lip syncs, and then it came down to three girls at the end, and two of them were like monster lip sync or like it wasn’t even a question as to whether it would be a good performance.
00:13:38:54 – 00:14:01:19
Charles Bates
It would just be like, which one of them is better? Okay. The third one was like, not very experience with lip syncing and everyone knows that, right? Like the judges, the contestants, the viewers, everybody knows what time it is. This this person is not very good at lip syncing. And so what’s going to happen is two of them are going to be singing for the final thing.
00:14:01:24 – 00:14:09:23
Charles Bates
And they one of the girls that the, one of the strong ones gets the opportunity to choose which of the other two to say.
00:14:09:28 – 00:14:10:15
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:14:10:20 – 00:14:31:15
Charles Bates
Now she could have saved the other one that was really good and just sent the one girl home knowing that she was weaker. But she didn’t do that. She saved the weaker one and then proceeded to beat the other one. Wow in the lip sync. So it was like she she did the right thing and then earned the spot.
00:14:31:15 – 00:14:38:01
Charles Bates
Like what? What a moment in just sportsmanship in general. Like super cool.
00:14:38:01 – 00:14:48:52
Agent Palmer
It’s funny you bring it up because even in real sport, like I’m, I’m a, I’m one of those nerds that crosses everything. Like there’s very few sports I won’t enjoy watching on my.
00:14:48:52 – 00:14:51:04
Charles Bates
Television, like sports, but.
00:14:51:09 – 00:15:13:39
Agent Palmer
I am always kind of I don’t know what the word is. Disgusted, I think, is the word when like good sportsmanship is the lead on Sports Center because it happens. So rarely. Like, yeah, you’ll never believe what happened. It’s like, oh, people were good. Like somebody’s somebody’s active human. And it wasn’t just trying to kill the other person.
00:15:13:47 – 00:15:20:37
Agent Palmer
And that is now our lead because it happens so rarely. And it’s just like, oh.
00:15:20:42 – 00:15:31:10
Charles Bates
That’s we need to be that is true to be the oh, do you think do you think that oh man, I wish my question should have been do you think Brady is going to stay retired?
00:15:31:15 – 00:15:37:31
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I, I guess we’ll see what happens with all of his, former FTX money. How much he.
00:15:37:36 – 00:15:45:27
Charles Bates
Oh my God, dude, he didn’t he say he wants to start stand up comedy? He’s out of his mind. He might stay. He might go. He might go to Miami.
00:15:45:29 – 00:15:46:18
Agent Palmer
I don’t forget.
00:15:46:18 – 00:15:48:25
Charles Bates
I wouldn’t be shocked at all if he ended up on the Dolphins.
00:15:48:25 – 00:16:11:18
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget, Farve retired, came out of retirement and went to the Jets and then got traded to the Vikings before he finally made it up like he didn’t. He? He legit retired before he went to the Jets and then had his second career. So I feel like it’s just, whereas you and I are creators and we can just create a new thing.
00:16:11:23 – 00:16:14:03
Agent Palmer
Yeah, they’ve been football players for 30 years. Like, they.
00:16:14:03 – 00:16:14:50
Charles Bates
Have to rely on their.
00:16:14:50 – 00:16:24:43
Agent Palmer
Body and that’s all they know. They can’t. I think you and I can double down on writing and wherever, whatever medium that takes, it’s fine.
00:16:24:43 – 00:16:52:32
Charles Bates
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. We’re we’re a lot less limited in, like where we can do that. You know, like, you can really only go be a pro football player one place. And if you’re 45 and your body is 45 because, you know, that’s the thing a lot of these guys, it’s like you might you might have the ferocity of a 30 year old, but your body is 45 and it can only go so hard and there are 20 year old linebackers waiting to light you up.
00:16:52:37 – 00:17:08:49
Charles Bates
So like, I mean, if I think that he should just stay out of it, like I saw a thing that said, Philip Rivers is looking for a place to play just. And it’s like he retired. It’s like, what are you doing? Just hang it up, man. It’s like it was like Kobe. And obviously, you know, rest in peace, Kobe.
00:17:08:54 – 00:17:25:24
Charles Bates
Obviously it didn’t work out anyway. That or rather I should say, obviously his life was tragically cut short anyway. But that last contract that Kobe took, I thought was crazy. I was like, what are you doing, dude? If you blow a knee out and then you’re not able to walk forever and for what? For like 50 more mil?
00:17:25:24 – 00:17:35:50
Charles Bates
Like, I just it just seems like too much of a risk for too little of a reward. Especially when you’re into the multi-millions. It’s like, what are we even talking about at that point?
00:17:35:52 – 00:17:58:24
Agent Palmer
Well, it it also ends up being this weird thing where it’s like, I think the money is the is the devil saying to keep doing it. Like, I really believe that they’re saying I’m going to walk away. And we, you know, you always have those conversations with like friends like, oh, well, you know, what would you do for $1 million?
00:17:58:39 – 00:18:17:06
Agent Palmer
Well, right. These guys have million. So it’s like, I would like to retire. Well, how about we give you a $50 million? No, I’d like to retire. How about we give you a 100 million? You know, so at a certain point, it’s just that’s the conversation because it’s like. But but again, you know, where’s the humanity from the ownership and the management.
00:18:17:06 – 00:18:21:08
Agent Palmer
That’s like, let the dude fucking rest, man.
00:18:21:13 – 00:18:37:02
Charles Bates
Yeah. But I mean, that is a good way to put it because I’ve not actually considered it that way before. But I guess that is true. Like it does reach a point where it’s like, shoot, if I’m Tom Brady and they’re going to give me all that money and all I gotta do is one more season and I could do one more season, I’m Tom Brady.
00:18:37:02 – 00:18:57:53
Charles Bates
Like it makes sense. Yeah. But I just feel like I don’t know at least for me maybe. And and and very likely it’s just because I had such a different path in life, like, you know, I’m not a millionaire. I’ve never been one. And I don’t know if I ever probably will be one. Probably not. But that sad, like, I don’t know, I feel like if I had a couple of million, you might not ever hear from me again.
00:18:57:54 – 00:19:17:30
Charles Bates
And I would just, like, live happily ever after, you know what I mean? Like, I don’t know that I would ever, like, get like $5 million and then think like, okay, how could I get ten? Like, like you, you’ve won, you know, like that’s I don’t get it about these some of these people with all this money that are just like tragedy cases.
00:19:17:30 – 00:19:23:07
Charles Bates
But what do you do? You won. You won. You got all the money you spent. You won the game of life.
00:19:23:11 – 00:19:38:42
Agent Palmer
But I think a lot of those people aren’t thinking about it in terms of like, other things. Like, I, I think it goes back to the artist thing, like you and I want to create a thing. And if it brings in a couple million, like, holy shit, like, that would be amazing.
00:19:38:46 – 00:19:40:41
Charles Bates
But it’s that’s not why we make.
00:19:40:41 – 00:20:03:45
Agent Palmer
But that’s not why we make the thing. Right. So like, I think that’s a different ballgame because like, that, you know, we’re like, I, I would love to do this for money. But I’ve always said and it’s something that I maintain, and I guess it’d be a good question to ask you, like, I think this would be different if I had to sell it for money.
00:20:03:50 – 00:20:19:48
Agent Palmer
Like I’m the one that lives rent free in my head. And I know people have, differing opinions on Chris Hardwick, but mainly because of there was some stuff. Yeah. Nerdist. He he founded Nerdist.
00:20:19:48 – 00:20:20:51
Charles Bates
And I don’t know a.
00:20:20:51 – 00:20:52:04
Agent Palmer
Lot about him, but the there was an episode of Nerdist, after he sold it. Now Nerdist was his blog and then his podcast, and then he sold it to a conglomerate. The episode where he talks about continuing a podcast under a different name because he no longer owns the thing. He it’d be basically like, okay, you and Justin can continue to do what you’re doing, but you’ve sold man shorts and you’ve got to do it under a new name.
00:20:52:08 – 00:21:12:26
Agent Palmer
He spends 15 minutes by himself on mic, basically crying. He doesn’t actually cry, but just talking about how much it means to him and how it was an opportunity you couldn’t pass up. But he still did it. And I think about that all the time because like, yeah, I Agent Palmer, is just a name. Nobody can stop me from podcasting or blogging.
00:21:12:40 – 00:21:36:09
Agent Palmer
You can’t take that away from me. But I could sell the name, like, what’s my Price? Like, he obviously found his price. But then again, you’re listening to this episode and he regret, like, I don’t know, I don’t know at a certain point, maybe you don’t regret it because there’s so much money in it. But like, I think about that episode a lot because he was so emotional about it.
00:21:36:14 – 00:21:55:01
Charles Bates
Yeah, I, I think it depends on like what your, what your goal is with the thing for one because like some sometimes that is the goal. It’s a lot of goal. It’s a, it’s a goal for a lot of those business minded type dudes. Right. They just build a build a business and then sell it and then start a new one.
00:21:55:01 – 00:22:28:01
Charles Bates
Like, I think that when it comes to like, the concept of selling out or to your point, which I kind of agree with, like there kind of always is a price, like, I, I don’t regret for the sake of us taking on sponsorships the, as to like, what kind of, you know, obviously we lost some people and they were upset that it’s, you know, technically kind of doubled up on ads because we’ve got our sponsors and as well as our advertisements on the channel, but it’s like, you know, that’s what it is.
00:22:28:01 – 00:22:50:02
Charles Bates
That’s how we make the money from it. I will say that like, I don’t know that the regret, at least for me, has been a moral one. Okay, well, I’ve been and maybe my maybe my situation’s a little different. But like, I think for me, the dilemma has been more of a feeding the beast thing where it’s like, you know, not that I would.
00:22:50:02 – 00:23:04:13
Charles Bates
I wouldn’t honestly even say that I’m sick of it. It’s just that it’s like if it’s getting tiring and it’s like, okay, I think I want to get off the ride now, but I don’t know how to get off the ride because it’s this, you know, it’s this thing now that people expect and that’s and it’s part of my income.
00:23:04:13 – 00:23:11:39
Charles Bates
So it’s not something it’s it’s not like I can just drop it, you know. So I think that that’s the any regret what. That would just be kind of feeding that financial beast.
00:23:11:44 – 00:23:38:18
Agent Palmer
Here’s. So here’s my question then. Because I’m a consumer that is tight on finances. So I’m never going to be the one that complains about you doubling down on doing an ad read and having ads. But I also grew up with terrestrial television, where I was used to ads like, I don’t complain about that because I don’t have the money to subscribe to you on, on YouTube or whatever other platforms.
00:23:38:18 – 00:23:51:50
Agent Palmer
Right. Like I maybe I could give you a dollar on Patreon, but like, as we’ve kind of all learned, like a dollar on Patreon is like $0.50 or whatever, so like, but but what I can do is I can sit through and watch the ads and I can.
00:23:51:54 – 00:24:11:35
Charles Bates
That’s honestly more important than anything. That’s the most valuable piece. People all the time are like, what’s the best way to get money to you? And it’s like, I mean, you could send cash, but like the reality is, like watching is the most important thing that you could do to help. And like obviously sharing and commenting and stuff helps the algorithm.
00:24:11:35 – 00:24:27:24
Charles Bates
Liking the videos and stuff, but like just being there as like because I mean, that’s what we’re selling at the end of the day. Right? For the ad space is I’ve. Yeah, that’s that’s what ad revenue is. That’s what ad space is, is like how many people are going to see this. Yeah. How many sales can we get from.
00:24:27:28 – 00:24:38:43
Charles Bates
So it’s like if you’re watching that’s the most important contribution that you could give, at least specifically the advertisements. But I think on the channel as a whole.
00:24:38:48 – 00:24:59:07
Agent Palmer
So the other question I had was do you we, we talked about like, you know, how things have changed over long periods of time, but have you, have you gone back and watched like early? Man shorts and like early drunk before noon, like, do you go back and look at the archive on occasion?
00:24:59:07 – 00:25:22:43
Charles Bates
Or sometimes if somebody sometimes will get a comment on something that’s like real old and I’ll be like, oh yeah, you know, some of the stuff is some of the stuff I thought we would make today. Okay, I doubt we, I doubt we would make gangster today. Just not because I feel ashamed of anything we did in those episodes, by the way.
00:25:22:43 – 00:25:40:27
Charles Bates
I think that they’re hilarious. I just mean that, like, I don’t think that we would have chosen to do that today just because it’s like, you don’t even want to open the door for somebody who’s because unfortunately, now we live in a space where there’s there are these people that are just kind of looking for a reason. Yeah.
00:25:40:34 – 00:26:05:57
Charles Bates
And so it’s like, you don’t want to give, you know, they say you give them an inch, they take a mile. I think that’s true of like online criticism for sure. It’s like if you give the and that’s maybe one of the reasons I’ve been so kind of like weary and nervous lately is because it’s like if you give them the smallest opening, not saying that it’s likely to happen or even that it will happen, but, you know, somebody could come up in there and really blow your spot up on something that you thought was like, innocuous.
00:26:05:57 – 00:26:07:51
Charles Bates
And then it can turn into a real problem.
00:26:07:51 – 00:26:31:01
Agent Palmer
Well, I, I but you’ve been open on the channel. You, you’re open in your music and you, you, you you were open on the chat. You’ve done some separate like videos like where I’m at. Yeah. Which makes you kind of the more, I don’t want to call you like the poster child for man shorts, but you are the one who did that.
00:26:31:01 – 00:26:58:51
Agent Palmer
Like, you’re in all the update videos with Justin, but you also did like, this is where I’m at videos on the channel. And so you put you despite that potential for somebody being like, oh come on you baby. You just make videos on the internet like you’ve still put yourself out there. Yeah. What was the thought process? Because obviously, you know, there’s informing the people that are, you know, the eyeballs.
00:26:58:51 – 00:27:03:41
Agent Palmer
But there’s also like my am I being too vulnerable on the internet?
00:27:03:46 – 00:27:08:56
Charles Bates
Yeah, I don’t know. I think maybe the addiction to the attention is it outweighs the vulnerability.
00:27:09:01 – 00:27:11:36
Agent Palmer
Do you think you’re really addicted to the attention?
00:27:11:41 – 00:27:31:41
Charles Bates
Oh yeah. I made a TikTok the other day where I was like, it’s just a little snippet, and it’s like, everybody wants attention. I just wanted more. I guess it’s like I kind of feel that way. Like, and maybe it’s a little only, only child syndrome. And maybe it’s just like, I don’t know, he’s just oh yeah.
00:27:31:46 – 00:27:32:31
Agent Palmer
Oh yeah.
00:27:32:36 – 00:27:52:43
Charles Bates
It was, it was the, it was, it was the main show always. But I think like yeah, I think that that’s really what it is. I think it’s that simple. I think that my desire to like, as you know, I have stuff to say. And while I think maybe the struggle is that I don’t always have a lot of belief or confidence in what I feel, even though I feel it.
00:27:52:48 – 00:28:13:16
Charles Bates
Yeah. So it’s like I don’t have a problem throwing it out there because I’ve just always done that and so sometimes it’s like a real, like deep or meaningful or vulnerable thought or moment. But it’s just kind of like automatic, I guess, that it just goes out. But then for me, it’s a it’s usually reactive for me usually.
00:28:13:16 – 00:28:30:23
Charles Bates
Right. Like especially like if it’s on like my podcast or something, like if it’s stream of consciousness, it’ll be like it won’t, I won’t even know until like three days or three weeks or sometimes three months later until somebody puts a comment that’s like, yeah, you know, this was I don’t know why you said this. And then it’s like.
00:28:30:28 – 00:28:32:00
Agent Palmer
Oh my God, I don’t know why I said.
00:28:32:00 – 00:28:55:42
Charles Bates
This thing. I said, three months. Yeah, exactly. It’s like now I’m like trying to reconcile a thought that I had in, you know, in 2020. But so I don’t know, it’s like this weird dichotomy. It’s like a tightrope walk of, like, not giving a shit what people think. And then also like, really trying to appease the people that have provided me.
00:28:55:42 – 00:29:24:41
Charles Bates
And I’ve been fortunate enough to have created this audience and this lane where I can live in and not have to, you know, work in what I would consider an awful job. I get to work for myself, which is a great opportunity I’ve been granted. So I do feel like there’s a responsibility to the audience as well. Like just as I think you know, I’m sure that like Quentin Tarantino and Spielberg and all of those great guys that are great directors, like they they think that they have a responsibility.
00:29:24:50 – 00:29:30:11
Charles Bates
I’m sure Quentin considers his audience when he writes. So I guess that.
00:29:30:16 – 00:29:49:02
Agent Palmer
So I would ask you a question then as far as and labels are hard, but I they’re all we have like, yeah, you can’t just be nebulous. But I, I would ask you then would you prefer to be an artist or a storyteller.
00:29:49:07 – 00:29:54:53
Agent Palmer
Because you’re both in essence, yeah.
00:29:54:57 – 00:30:19:11
Charles Bates
I think an artist. Okay. Just because I feel like there’s more storytelling asks more of you as a creator. And it also, there’s I think that there’s more expectation there as a consumer. But if you’re just kind of like an artist, if it’s just kind of like there to exist for what it is, it’s there’s less pressure, I think, okay.
00:30:19:16 – 00:30:36:40
Charles Bates
But if you’re going to call yourself a storyteller, you know, Stephen King as a storyteller. So it’s like, dang, man. Like, I would much rather be an artist because, you know, carrot is an artist like you can and I and I shouldn’t be mean about Carrot Top. Obviously he’s more successful than me, but I just you know what I mean?
00:30:36:40 – 00:30:53:12
Charles Bates
Like, I think that as an artist, you can afford to be a little bit more like the rules don’t matter. Whereas I think with storytelling, at least in my experience, and the way that I consume stuff, that there’s kind of a level of expectation from a storyteller.
00:30:53:17 – 00:31:15:50
Agent Palmer
See, and and here I am thinking like, you know, I like when those rules get broken. So like, look, the rules don’t get broken very often, but when they do, I’m the one who stands up and I’m like, yes, this is great. Like this. And it kind of goes back to the Star Wars thing where like some of the new trilogy broke some old tropes.
00:31:15:54 – 00:31:27:38
Agent Palmer
And I like that. Like that’s that’s why some of the hardcore fans hated it. But it’s exactly the reason I loved it, because, like, it’s different. Yeah, it’s the same thing.
00:31:27:43 – 00:31:47:01
Charles Bates
Well, it’s the same, but it’s different. And that’s I think too, a part of it is like it’s that’s another part of the tightrope that you walk as a creator. Is that like, you want to give your audience familiarity. You want to give them what they already know and love, but at the same time give them something new, put a bit of a spin on it.
00:31:47:01 – 00:32:04:08
Charles Bates
And I think that that might have something to do with, you know, not that we’ve been struggling, but we’ve kind of plateaued in the last year or so, I’d say, in terms of like growth and like, you know, I don’t know if the algorithm knocked us out of whack or something, but like, we just haven’t been getting the kind of views that we were like a year ago.
00:32:04:13 – 00:32:25:47
Charles Bates
And I think that part of that is because it’s just like it’s gotten kind of formulaic and like, even as much as the theme and the jokes might change, it is essentially the same show every week. And so that’s one of the reasons that I’m excited about, like, doing this podcast and then doing this new character building thing and the new show, which I don’t know if I’ve told you.
00:32:25:51 – 00:33:03:23
Agent Palmer
I guess, but I would argue that you got into the wrong mindset. And I say that as someone who keeps reading all these articles about growth and like, you know, thinking to myself, yeah, but there’s only so far you can grow, like, I know, like I look and look as a as a person who lives his life as a blogger that is basically subject to the whims of the Google SEO algorithm, which right every update, it’s like, oh, this one benefited me, and this one not so much.
00:33:03:23 – 00:33:22:53
Agent Palmer
And it all kind of equals out. But like at a certain point, maybe if Pete and that’s not like, that’s not like I’m not saying that it’s like a sad thing, like, okay, you’re hitting your 50,000 people and these are your 50,000 people, and you’re going to plus and minus five for the next ten years. But these are your 50,000.
00:33:22:53 – 00:33:44:14
Agent Palmer
And I think that, you know, all of the quote unquote business channels, every one of them from CNBC and MSNBC and Fox, but all of them are horrible for people because they’re always like, well, this company’s looking for the next growth. And it’s like, well, okay, but if everybody on earth has Facebook, what’s Zuckerberg going to do?
00:33:44:14 – 00:34:05:33
Agent Palmer
Start sending it to Mars? Like there’s only so much you can do? And I think that as as creators, we need to kind of think of it on a smaller scale, because like, even if everybody on the planet watched your stuff, that’s no guarantee that everybody’s going to continue to. So, like, you do have a cat, we all have a cap, basically.
00:34:05:38 – 00:34:30:52
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I think that we we could do better to recognize that for ourselves because like, yeah, I, I and look, I think that, you and I are in different places because this is still only a passion project, and I, I, you know, if I’m lucky enough to make ten bucks on all of the things I create, then that’s what I make.
00:34:30:52 – 00:34:57:20
Agent Palmer
But, like I’ve always said, like, I just want to make I just want to hit the same audience plus one like I it. And it’s been a slow growth. Like, you know, I, I remember when I started hitting on average 100 hits a day to the website and I was like, this is amazing. Oh my God, 100 different people because, yeah, well, I don’t by the time you hit that, you’re not staring at the analytics anymore.
00:34:57:25 – 00:35:02:07
Agent Palmer
But I remember being excited for one, oh my.
00:35:02:11 – 00:35:39:10
Charles Bates
God. And I tell people to like it’s a scale because it all, it all it’s all relative. Because I remember vividly the conversation with my wife when the when the man shorts channel had like, I don’t know, we had like 6000 followers or something and I think we earned like $3 or something and I, I just, I remember that conversation with my wife of just like, oh, look, it’s and, you know, it’s it’s you adjust and, and then want more.
00:35:39:10 – 00:35:59:42
Charles Bates
I guess it’s just like, I don’t know, like it doesn’t feel. I remember on my Charlie Channel back in the day years, you know, 20, 15, 20 years ago or whatever it was now where like, I wanted 100 subscribers. That was what I wanted. And then I ended up getting like thousands overnight because I won that Phil DeFranco contest.
00:35:59:42 – 00:36:19:10
Charles Bates
But that’s a whole nother thing. But the I don’t know, I guess it’s just like sometimes I talk to people and they’re like, wow, you have all those subscribers. And then other times I talk to people where they’re like, oh, wow. Because, you know, like with like our agency represents a couple of other creators that are in our space and some of which do much better numbers than us.
00:36:19:10 – 00:36:41:55
Charles Bates
And so that’s a little humbling too, because it’s like, because then on the one hand, it’s like I talked to someone like you who was like, well, you know, you probably I’m probably annoying you complaining because you’re in a position where you’re working really hard on this thing and it’s still a passion project for you. And the the best advice that I would ever have to anybody is to just keep doing it, because, yeah, it’ll just that’s all we’ve ever done is just organically grown.
00:36:41:55 – 00:37:10:31
Charles Bates
But it’s like some people I talk to and they’re like, oh, 170 pounds. I’m a client. Come on, man y. And then but then also like I remember just dreaming of getting ten K, I remember just like hoping and praying that we would get ten K and then like now we have like close to 200. And I almost feel like a bad person because I want I wish it were 500 K, you know.
00:37:10:36 – 00:37:11:23
Agent Palmer
You want the million.
00:37:11:34 – 00:37:32:58
Charles Bates
Maybe, maybe that’s what it is, that maybe that’s the big problem with all the money in this place with the millionaires and billionaires. And maybe, maybe I didn’t know what I was talking about earlier with the 2 million versus 5 million, because it’s certainly been the case with subscribers. And if I got $1 million and somebody gave me the opportunity to make ten, I probably wouldn’t like immediately say, now.
00:37:33:03 – 00:37:33:48
Agent Palmer
I guess.
00:37:33:48 – 00:37:35:12
Charles Bates
Like a fair amount.
00:37:35:21 – 00:37:59:44
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s fair. I guess the other piece to it is and like I talked about and I continue to bring up Minecraft because it’s the the content I consume the most often because there’s like they’re collectives, right? And first of all, I’m jealous of them. And I’m jealous of you because, like, I’m this is the only collaboration I get.
00:37:59:49 – 00:38:17:03
Agent Palmer
Like, so what? I watch a bunch of Minecraft creators on a server where they’re like, oh, there’s ten other people here. Like I can hang out with whoever. And like, you have Justin and the rest of the cast and crew or like, you can collaborate a bit, like, even if the writing is done by yourself, you know, there’s something else like, this is it.
00:38:17:03 – 00:38:47:39
Agent Palmer
This is what I have. And I’m I’m fairly jealous of that. But I think the other piece is if you just keep doing it like, that’s great, but I bring it back to Minecraft because I saw in the last three years a lot of creators just step away because the burnout was so much like, these are people that are big, bigger than the two of us by a factor of a lot.
00:38:47:44 – 00:38:55:08
Charles Bates
Oh yeah, these streamers, these they I imagine they get burned out. Some of those people are on there all day, like for five days a week.
00:38:55:08 – 00:39:04:24
Agent Palmer
And and even the ones that just do straight up edited video, which, by the way, also not not easy because you’re turning also.
00:39:04:24 – 00:39:05:17
Charles Bates
Eight hours a day.
00:39:05:17 – 00:39:30:05
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Right. And so it’s no wonder they get burnt out. But at a certain point, like I talk to creators all the time and I’ve never talked to anybody that, I don’t know. It’s got to be a drive thing. Right? Because I, I sit here and even you to an extent, like there’s still passions, like, yeah, you’re bringing in money, but it’s still a passion.
00:39:30:05 – 00:39:42:37
Agent Palmer
You’re not driven to burn yourself out or it’s just part of who we are and where we’ve been in our lives were like, I’m going to make sure I try not to completely implode.
00:39:42:37 – 00:40:08:18
Charles Bates
Yeah, most definitely. I think it might be like, as we talked about before, like a little bit of a combination of the fear of success thing, but then also like, there’s a part of me that doesn’t want to turn into one of those people, okay? And I’ve seen it happen to more and more people over the years. And most recently, a more recent example would be like a Joe Rogan, where it’s like, bro, as soon as he signed that $100 million Spotify contract, he’s a different person.
00:40:08:28 – 00:40:36:52
Charles Bates
Like he’s just a different thing entirely now. Like $100 million. Yeah. Like I can’t even begin to think of how I could spend that money in a lifetime. It’s just so much. And so I think that, I think that there’s a part of me that, like, doesn’t want to become so wealthy that I become out of touch.
00:40:36:57 – 00:41:08:50
Charles Bates
And maybe that’s the artist in me because I feel like, you know, the starving artist is even is still is still alive, even in those people like the Rock and Kevin Hart, you know, like the those kind of like Uber successful but also really, really rich people that it’s like that even even through all of the wealth and bullshit and maintaining and making a deal with the devil and etc., etc. whether the starving artist is there doesn’t really have a bearing on all of that.
00:41:08:50 – 00:41:11:48
Charles Bates
I guess, like the starving artist can still exist in there.
00:41:11:50 – 00:41:34:15
Agent Palmer
Oh, I think it definitely. I think you look at some of those people you mentioned and they have their mansions, but they spend a lot of time on the road and a lot of time on the next project. Right? I think that’s where you can see, like, okay, he’s comfortable and he could hang it up. I and I, I think wrestling’s kind of a similar background.
00:41:34:15 – 00:41:42:19
Agent Palmer
Right. Like I’m, I haven’t watched wrestling in a very long time, but I was a big fan of wrestling during the Attitude ERA.
00:41:42:24 – 00:41:43:02
Charles Bates
Oh yeah.
00:41:43:09 – 00:41:49:34
Agent Palmer
And I was also a big fan of, like, Chris Jericho was one of my favorites. Yeah. He’s also I love.
00:41:49:34 – 00:41:51:13
Charles Bates
Jericho, he’s awesome bar.
00:41:51:14 – 00:42:11:39
Agent Palmer
He’s also the lead singer of Fozzy, which is not like a horrible, like hard rock band. He could step away from the squared circle whenever he wanted to and just tour as a frontman for a rock band. Yeah, and yet he still does all of that. Like, this is where this I think the starving artist comes in because, yeah, he has the millions.
00:42:11:39 – 00:42:37:54
Agent Palmer
And yeah, he could be a wrestler or a rock star, but he chooses to continue to do both. And it’s like, yeah, they’re the that’s the the heart of the dog. And then the dog in the fight in this like it’s all the cliches because like, otherwise like why would you keep doing. Yeah. And the Rock goes from project to project to project to project.
00:42:37:54 – 00:43:00:59
Agent Palmer
And he bought the XFL and he’s doing like he always. And I think well in a different space because it’s not necessarily all art. But at a certain point you’re just out to prove something or to tell a story or to create a new thing. And some of those people, regardless of the paycheck or how much money will just keep going.
00:43:01:04 – 00:43:35:25
Charles Bates
Yeah. And I think it’s also like it’s just a matter of like humans wanting to share themselves with other humans and doing that in the most effective way possible. Right. Like some people do that by using their bodies like athletes. And then some of some people do that, like using their humor or their brains, like you and I, or like there’s just, or somebody like, the rock is like, you know, obviously like through his physical body, but then also just through like his, his general leadership skills, his presence, I’m sure, is very effective in business.
00:43:35:25 – 00:44:01:51
Charles Bates
And like any of the brand deals that he does, he’s very like, charming. So he can do advertisements and stuff like. But at the end of the day, he’s, you’re buying him. And that’s kind of how I feel like with, like the hat with the names of the hat thing with me, with all the names is that it’s like, I don’t really care what you call me, because if you’re calling me one of those things, then you’re paying attention to what I’m doing, which is kind of the goal anyway.
00:44:01:51 – 00:44:19:57
Charles Bates
So it’s like some people like me because some people only like me because of the Yahzick stuff. It’s like, that’s it. That’s all they want to do is all they want to do is hear rap from me. And then some people don’t care about the music at all, and all they want is D&D content. And then now I’ve got this subset of people who just are there for the podcast.
00:44:19:57 – 00:44:39:48
Charles Bates
So it’s like, yeah, it’s just a it’s just a matter of sharing yourself with another human. And I’ve been grateful to have shared this time with you this evening, because there’s been a cool conversation.
00:44:39:53 – 00:45:01:46
Agent Palmer
There’s quite a bit contained in this episode, but I have to say, this was just fun. This conversation was an adventure in itself, and not for nothing, but it does. Mark the first episode of The Paul Files that was started by a question from the guest. Now, Charles is not only a returning guest, he’s the first to get back to back episodes.
00:45:01:46 – 00:45:23:42
Agent Palmer
But you do this kind of show for long enough and you learn to roll with everything. In this case, a double recording. Why does it work? It works for me because I enjoy listening to my guests as much as I enjoy talking to them. And I could argue the same is true about the shows I enjoy. I like the consuming, the listening, the watching.
00:45:23:47 – 00:45:50:22
Agent Palmer
There’s a concentration level to focus on things you enjoy that’s very different from what you encounter when you’re passively consuming things. As such, this podcast and conversations like the one you just heard me have with Charles are great for my own personal well-being because, well, it should be. If you listen to this show, you should take the time to have a conversation with others around you and concentrate on what they are saying, not just passively.
00:45:50:22 – 00:46:12:17
Agent Palmer
Wait until you can open your mouth next. That’s not a conversation, that’s you ignoring the other person for your own benefit. Don’t do that. Stop that. Listen to what other people have to say. They may just surprise you. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 96. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
00:46:12:20 – 00:46:34:15
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact myself and my guest, Charles Bates, in the show notes. There you can find the links to watch Charles content on the man shorts channel. That’s M and N, as in YouTube.com slash man shorts. There you can also find the D and D editions Drunk Before Noon and the video of his podcast bar device.
00:46:34:20 – 00:46:59:53
Agent Palmer
You can also listen to his music on YouTube or Spotify by looking up Yahzick. That’s why a H. Zakk email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:46:59:58 – 00:47:07:48
Unknown
You.
00:47:07:52 – 00:47:31:23
Unknown
See?
00:47:31:28 – 00:47:35:26
Unknown
Me?
00:47:35:30 – 00:47:37:58
Agent Palmer
All right. Charles, do you have one final question for me?
00:47:38:03 – 00:47:59:58
Charles Bates
What is your favorite? Or, I guess I should say, fondest memories with, video game from when we were kids? I say we because we’re relatively in the same age, certainly the same generation. So, like, what was your favorite kind of thing to go? What was your go to? So get them.
00:48:00:03 – 00:48:24:21
Agent Palmer
The, the it’s it’s the same old story for me every time I asked for a Nintendo and I got an IBM PC. Okay. So right off the bat, like, if it’s my go to right, it’s going to be a PC game because all of my NES was at a friend’s house. And only, you know, and only sharing the remote.
00:48:24:21 – 00:49:05:27
Agent Palmer
But for me, really, you fast forward, through all the PC gaming and the like, the civilization and and that early stuff into 1997, when I’m working at every middle slash high school geek’s dream job of a magic card store, that has three networked computers where we played quake, Warcraft two, Tides of Darkness and Diablo. Right. And, and so for me, it’s quake one in, in deathmatch mode.
00:49:05:29 – 00:49:32:50
Agent Palmer
That’s my go to video game jam, followed by Warcraft two, Tides of Darkness, and then Diablo. But those are the top three. Like as far as classic go back, play video games. That’s what I think of. And it’s because I asked for a Nintendo and I got a PC, and I didn’t get my first console until I bought myself a Gamecube in like 2001.
00:49:33:01 – 00:49:36:30
Charles Bates
So, so you missed the 64 two?
00:49:36:30 – 00:49:54:05
Agent Palmer
I mean, again, with other people, like at other people’s houses or hanging out with other people, and the same with the same is true of the PlayStation and the Dreamcast. Like, I remember playing Tekken and like all that kind of stuff with other people at their house. But like, for me, it’s not until I buy the Gamecube that I get my own console.
00:49:54:05 – 00:49:57:11
Agent Palmer
Otherwise it’s like all PC.
00:49:57:16 – 00:50:22:13
Charles Bates
It’s so interesting because I was the opposite when I was a kid. Well, I was fortunate as a child for not ever wanting and also having lots of nice stuff and having systems and stuff. And I had a, I had a 64. I didn’t fall in love with PC gaming until later in life, until like 2011, like in my early to mid 20s, I was up in Michigan with my buddy and we and we Skyrim came out okay.
00:50:22:17 – 00:50:44:37
Charles Bates
And so I played Skyrim on PC for the first time, and while I was doing it, I discovered how easy lockpicking was and I was like, oh my gosh, why is lockpicking so easy? And he’s like, oh, because it’s on PC. And so I was like, oh, so now I exclusively PC game, okay. But for my childhood it was it was a pretty much a Nintendo house.
00:50:44:37 – 00:50:57:01
Charles Bates
Although I did have a PlayStation two that I played to death. But yeah, that’s so funny. It’s like just backwards. It was like I was playing consoles mostly as a kid. And then now I play PC.
00:50:57:07 – 00:51:20:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, I and I, I went back right at a certain point I bought a two and yes sir, like I, I went back and I played a bunch of stuff that I missed, but like, yeah, for me, like for my formative gaming, it was literally quake and like, just put I’m going to put you in a spot.
00:51:20:51 – 00:51:45:14
Agent Palmer
Okay. My go to CD for playing deathmatch was Prodigy’s fad of the land, which pairs so well with quake. I like no offense to Trent Reznor, who actually did the score for quake. Bad of the land is an amazing deathmatch soundtrack.
00:51:45:18 – 00:51:47:15
Charles Bates
Yeah, I can imagine so.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).