Episode 89 features Cam Smith, co-host of SpyHards Podcast who is here to discuss media, fandom, American and Canadian culture, a few hot takes, Star Trek, spies, and much more!
I promise you won’t need a secret decoder ring for this one.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Why Spy?
- Star Trek
- James Bond
- Canada
- Culture
- Origin of a podcast
- What makes a spy movie?
- Reading
- Christopher Nolan
- Midnight Showings
- Star Wars
- Night Owls and Early Birds
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:27:32
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. Somehow, a Pepsi court case provides refreshing documentary fodder. A back from the dead defense of 2013 received. And if you heard the last episode, let me say that Chris and I are anxious to get our movie out to you, but these things take time. This is The Palmer Files episode 89 with Cam Smith, co-host of Spy hards podcast, who is here to discuss media fandom, American and Canadian culture.
00:00:27:41 – 00:01:07:17
Agent Palmer
A Few Hot Takes star Trek, and of course, spies. I promise you won’t need a secret decoder ring for this one. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:07:22 – 00:01:34:39
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 89th episode is Cam Smith, co-host of Spy hards podcast. Spy hards is a weekly film podcast that decodes classic spy cinema, but it is also a place where you can go for engaging conversation about cinema in general, especially if you support them on Patreon, where they tackle any movies that star actors from the classic spy cinema they cover on a weekly basis.
00:01:34:44 – 00:01:59:18
Agent Palmer
Whether you partake in the free or paywall stuff, you’ll enjoy Cam and Scott. How did cam get on this show? It’s easy enough to explain. It wasn’t Covert Ops. It was in overlapping digital communities. Agent Palmer and Spy hards. It’s actually surprising this hasn’t happened sooner. What you are about to hear is a conversation about spies and fandom, international cultural exchanges and perspectives.
00:01:59:27 – 00:02:21:53
Agent Palmer
Batman, Marvel, James Bond, Star Trek, and much more. Before we get going, remember that if you wanted discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all of the contact information for cam and myself in the show notes. You can also see all of the content and learn more about Spy Hard’s podcast at spy. Com that’s spy hrt.com.
00:02:21:58 – 00:02:38:56
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent Palmer. Dot com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, we have a mission.
00:02:39:01 – 00:02:41:54
Agent Palmer
Cam. Why? Spy.
00:02:41:59 – 00:03:06:06
Cam Smith
Well, there’s so many ways to answer that. This. Yes. For those that don’t know. Yes, I am the host of the Spy hards podcast. Or the co-host, I should say, with, Agent Scott. This all began really as a pandemic project, and I am a huge movie buff. And so when Scott, who had the idea of starting a podcast, he wanted to do something movie related.
00:03:06:06 – 00:03:25:30
Cam Smith
So I was the obvious choice to talk to. And him and I had bonded over James Bond stuff, so Scott and I met. I should back the track a bit, but we made it a Star Trek convention, so we’ve known each other for like a decade. And so we’ve typically talked a lot about Star Trek. And, you know, we meet up every summer in Las Vegas to go to the Star Trek convention.
00:03:25:35 – 00:03:26:49
Cam Smith
But like, we hold.
00:03:26:49 – 00:03:41:20
Agent Palmer
On, hold on, hold on, hold on. Yeah. The Star Trek, like the Star Trek convention that as portrayed in most famously in fanboys as like, Go to Vegas. My contact there will meet you.
00:03:41:25 – 00:03:59:19
Cam Smith
I yeah, it’s in Las Vegas. You had a big, official one or it used to be official in Las Vegas. Yeah, that’s where I met him. Scott, my co-host Scott is from the UK and we met there and I think 2013. And, you know, we obviously meet every every summer a whole there’s a whole group of us that all get together at the convention.
00:03:59:24 – 00:04:15:09
Cam Smith
But, Scott, you know, and I would be talking on WhatsApp and he decided to do a James Bond rewatch, which I was a little, surprised that someone from the UK wasn’t just watching James Bond movies all the time. It seemed like the sort of that just comes with, you know, being born there.
00:04:15:24 – 00:04:40:14
Agent Palmer
But you know, I don’t. So I, I judging from the time frame, a lot of people were doing, they were getting ready for the new every time a new bond comes out, the rewatches kind of start. I mean, I think that’s kind of par for the course for a lot of films. The exception being Marvel. I think at this point, a rewatch of the entire MCU before the next one is like, you have to start the day the last one came out.
00:04:40:14 – 00:04:48:21
Agent Palmer
If you really want to have the time for that. But I don’t know if rewatch is good, man, because, like, I.
00:04:48:25 – 00:04:49:57
Cam Smith
I don’t, I do them. I have had.
00:04:50:08 – 00:05:14:22
Agent Palmer
Terrestrial cable for a long time, but I do remember, like if I did a full rewatch, there are some movies, bond movies specifically I that don’t get put into quote unquote syndication. So like I’ve seen From Russia With love a million times and Goldfinger and GoldenEye, but like, there’s a couple in the in the middle there that like, I have to put them on like I never seem to catch them anywhere else.
00:05:14:24 – 00:05:27:14
Agent Palmer
So the other part of it. Right, like, just, but, you know, I think they have a different appreciation for them. You’re from, Canada, right? Yeah.
00:05:27:14 – 00:05:33:08
Cam Smith
That’s right, Vancouver, BC or North Vancouver. But when you say North Vancouver, people don’t. Okay. You know what that even means in.
00:05:33:08 – 00:06:00:12
Agent Palmer
Fairness, though. And I’m, I’m keeping my I’m a bit of a Canada fanboy, I guess you would say. Right. A friend of mine turned me on to the hip of, 5 or 6 years ago, and they’ve been stuck in my place ever since. But I’m a huge fan of Douglas Copeland, who has allowed me to understand more of the geography of Vancouver than I ever thought I would want to.
00:06:00:12 – 00:06:25:20
Agent Palmer
And I’m a I’m, I’m a fan of loading ready run. So like, geographically, I know way more about British Columbia than a normal American should. So like, I, I. Oh, so you’re from North fan like that? I feel like I can say that even though I, I’ve only been to the eastern part of your country.
00:06:25:24 – 00:06:39:54
Cam Smith
Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, but especially once the Olympics happened here, people had a sense, I think more so of Vancouver. But, yeah, I’m basically across the water from the city. Okay. That’s sort of the way it’s situated. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:39:58 – 00:06:54:13
Agent Palmer
So, rewatch of bond. And so your appreciation for film, I presume included bond originally.
00:06:54:18 – 00:07:11:52
Cam Smith
Yeah. So I was someone who, you know, my parents showed me a view to a kill when I was probably, like, ten years old or something like that. Okay. And I just fell in love with the franchise. So bond has been with me. The over half of my life at this point. Well over half basically, I think, what, three quarters?
00:07:11:57 – 00:07:31:33
Cam Smith
And so when my friend Scott is doing the rewatch, we just were talking on WhatsApp and I’m talking through every movie and all these little nuggets of things I’ve picked up over the years. And when we decided to start a podcast, it was like, well, what can we talk about? I do a Star Trek podcast on the side, so we weren’t going to do Star Trek.
00:07:31:44 – 00:07:54:29
Cam Smith
Okay. And it was like, well, what about James Bond? Because that’s something we could definitely talk about. But there are a Sea of James Bond podcast out there. A lot of people do it very well. There are celebrities that do bond podcasts, and it’s very tough to compete in the podcast arena when you’re going up against, you know, people with who are known quantities, basically.
00:07:54:32 – 00:08:17:12
Cam Smith
Yep. So it was like, well, if we did bond, you only have 25 movies really. So that’s kind of limited. So we decided to do the entirety of spy films, which, I think we had very narrow views when we started off of, well, a spy movie. Okay. Well, you are bond Mission Impossible. You know, you can kind of take them off.
00:08:17:12 – 00:08:37:06
Cam Smith
Tinker, tailor, soldier, spy, things like Jason Bourne. Yeah, sure. And as we have continued on, I think we’re at the we’re past the two year mark. I think at this point. But we have a master list of all these movies to cover, and we’ve covered so many at this point, I think well over 100. And you start to realize that.
00:08:37:11 – 00:08:47:00
Cam Smith
What exactly is a spy movie? Yeah. Because, you know, is Austin Powers the same type of movie as Zero Dark 30?
00:08:47:05 – 00:09:19:01
Agent Palmer
No. Yeah. I mean, I would say, yeah. I mean, so in, in, in the full disclosure of something that was an unfinished project for me. Right. So the blog. Vlogs over a decade. Once I hit the decade mark, I stopped counting. So I don’t remember. Right. But I’m over a decade and at one point, you know, I was going to be like, well, I’ll review, like, all the spy films because, like, how many can there be?
00:09:19:01 – 00:09:42:47
Agent Palmer
Right? And so you start the list and, you know, I, I stole, you know, it’s no secret. I stole Agent Palmer from the Ipcress File movie. I mean, that’s. Yeah, you know, but, you know, to the same extent. That’s a list I still have in my, quote unquote blog schedule. And it’s only 50 movies long, right?
00:09:42:47 – 00:10:06:39
Agent Palmer
And I made it when my blog was, like three. Right. So it doesn’t include things like Atomic Blond, which I watched in review. Like it doesn’t include all the things that have popped up in the last little bit. I still, I, I hope by the time this releases it’s not the case, but as of right now, I still haven’t watched the Ipcress File remake.
00:10:06:39 – 00:10:28:48
Agent Palmer
It’s just, And I think part of it is the inundation of just content that we’re all getting all the time makes it hard to catch up on those things. But like, I’m with you. Like, what makes a spy movie? Because when you go through whatever your biases are like, you’re okay, you’re bond, you’re born, you’re mission impossible.
00:10:29:02 – 00:10:51:08
Agent Palmer
And then, you know, of course, I pick, you know, Michael Caine’s, you know, short day. And here’s the thing. He crosses over with with with Austin Powers. So like I feel like yeah, it gives it lens credit. I don’t I think it was supposed to be a spoof joke, but it makes it lend credibility to what Myers did with Austin Powers.
00:10:51:13 – 00:11:24:23
Agent Palmer
But like, there are just so many. And then, you know, you guys are mainly focusing on the film stuff and the the book genre. Part of it is just even more explosive than that. And it’s just like, okay, well, maybe I’ll just and it’s something I planned on getting back to when I was starting out in blogging, just as a small content history lesson for everybody Hub and spoke was the way to go.
00:11:24:32 – 00:11:46:49
Agent Palmer
You want to do, a post about your top ten movies, right? About all ten, and then do a list linking to all of them. And while that is still somewhat valid, it’s not nearly as valid as it once was. And so I have all these lists where I’m like, I’ll write the list after I write about all the individual, and you just never get around to it like it’s there’s just so much.
00:11:46:54 – 00:12:18:24
Agent Palmer
But you’re right. Like spy is just, are we talking about, internal affairs or external affairs or intergovernmental affairs? I mean, you don’t even have to say if it’s Cold War or current or, like, it’s just there’s just so much that boggles the mind. But I, I have to say, all that variety means that you can keep doing spy hards like, you’re not going to get sick any time soon.
00:12:18:29 – 00:12:44:41
Cam Smith
No. And we have found, you know, the bond movies are the big download getters, right? Like, it’s just obvious. But, and people love, you know, Jason Bourne coverage and all those sorts of things. But honestly, we have the most fun sometimes, like digging up these obscurities like we did one called the, fastest Guitar Alive. That was a Roy Orbison western spy comedy set during the Civil War.
00:12:44:46 – 00:13:16:22
Cam Smith
And it’s like, right, okay. We another one. Was it, Oh, boy. Confidential agent. That was, you know, it was made in 1945, so you’re like, oh, World War two, right? Wrong. Spanish Civil War. And it’s about the basically core contracts. And so the whole spy genre, we tend to be very narrow where it’s like, you know, Cold War or, you know, modern day kind of stuff or very like fantasy based stuff.
00:13:16:27 – 00:13:40:07
Cam Smith
And there are just like all of these, you know, spy films that tie into all these different periods of history. And Scott and I like to joke that we are idiots. You know, I’m an English major, I’m not a history major. And sometimes we did one called British Agent that was set during the Russian Revolution. And believe me, I was on Wikipedia having to read a lot about the Russian Revolution to understand the events of that film.
00:13:40:07 – 00:13:43:24
Cam Smith
But that’s kind of the fun, is figuring that out as well as we go along.
00:13:43:29 – 00:14:06:03
Agent Palmer
The have you, picked up like the books, like, have you, have you have you I mean, obviously you have a day job, like you’re the spy hards is not your primary gig. So that’s in addition to but like, have you picked up like, you know, a novel or two to, like, see the source material?
00:14:06:08 – 00:14:24:34
Cam Smith
This is where my great shame comes out. It’s, I have read a number of the Ian Fleming bonds, for sure. Yep. But beyond that, not a lot. I don’t tend to read fictional lot. Okay. Which is weird, being an English major. You kind of go like. Well, what kind of major are you?
00:14:24:36 – 00:14:44:57
Agent Palmer
But I don’t know if that’s weird. I mean, I, I was a communications major, which means I’m not much, I mean, I, I, I’m in the same boat as you. I just I’m actually more general than you. I, I instead of going, like, I like writing and reading, I’m going to be an English major. I was like, I like things and stuff.
00:14:44:57 – 00:15:21:08
Agent Palmer
I’m just going to be how how general can I be? So I’m not going to pick on you for that. Like I feel like, you know, to an extent, all of us in the humanities are fooling ourselves, thinking that we’re going to get great careers out of this education. But I the the factual spy stuff I’ve read is not that like, it’s amazing how on knows like, you know, your Dayton’s and your Fleming’s are and you’re like cars are because when you read the real, when you read the nonfiction, you’re like, wait a minute.
00:15:21:13 – 00:15:24:47
Agent Palmer
These guys are borrowing everything.
00:15:24:52 – 00:15:49:16
Cam Smith
Well, there’s often that real world element that they have because Ian Fleming, you know, worked with British intelligence during World War two. I’m not exactly sure of Len Dayton’s background, but they are definitely drawing on real world stuff and kind of working into their fantasy kind of fiction and even bond. You know, we tend to think of bond so much as the Krieger is kind of reinvented it as sort of that more gritty, realistic vibe.
00:15:49:16 – 00:16:06:14
Cam Smith
But, you know, prior to that, people tended to look to bond for that kind of larger than life and huge, you know, super villains and space lasers and all that sort of thing. And that’s not really present in any of the novels. That’s more of a invention of movies. I.
00:16:06:19 – 00:16:14:34
Agent Palmer
I’m gonna and I’ve said this before, and I just want to say it to you just to get it off my chest. I don’t like the the Craig era.
00:16:14:39 – 00:16:17:10
Cam Smith
That’s fair. Yeah, I think the Craig guy is very inconsistent.
00:16:17:10 – 00:16:46:12
Agent Palmer
I, I, I have no problem with Daniel Craig. But I, I hate the fact that we went away from quote unquote villain of the week movies. I thought the best thing about James Bond was you didn’t have to watch the last one to appreciate the next one. You could skip four and not be lost. And, you know, I was busy with other things when, the Craig series came out.
00:16:46:12 – 00:17:06:28
Agent Palmer
So I watched the first one and then kind of got away from it. And then I, I just, I had friends tell me like, oh, you can’t watch the third one without watching the second one. I went, wow, I like it. You know, just kind of like, wait, what? And so like, I’ve kind of been like, they should go back to villain of the week.
00:17:06:28 – 00:17:20:44
Agent Palmer
Like, I understand, like Mission Impossible was built on to itself and the Jason is all connected together. But that was never what the bond franchise was about. No, I feel like they got a they really got away from that.
00:17:20:49 – 00:17:46:45
Cam Smith
Well, I mean, you can blame for sure the rise of Marvel for that, the whole interconnected universes and that, you know, you look at bond, the two most loved Craig ones, if you I think the majority of bond fans or even just the general public who watch them are going to be Casino Royale, the first one and Skyfall the third one, both of those are the most standalone of the five, and I think that’s really interesting.
00:17:46:50 – 00:18:06:46
Cam Smith
And yet when you look at the ones where they’re trying to kind of tie things together, whether it’s Quantum of Solace is its immediate springboard off of Casino Royale, a direct sequel, or you look at the movie specter, which, you know, brings in Blofeld and has the whole everything’s connected, every villain from these, you know, these Craig films is all been working with me.
00:18:06:51 – 00:18:12:26
Cam Smith
People don’t really like those movies very much, or at least to be kind. They are incredibly polarizing.
00:18:12:26 – 00:18:29:16
Agent Palmer
Okay, yeah, I, I, I just I can’t get past it. And yet, like, you know, I’m starting to get to that point with the Marvel stuff where I’m like, I don’t want to have to watch She-Hulk. No, I mean, I.
00:18:29:18 – 00:18:30:53
Cam Smith
Like She-Hulk, actually. It was fun.
00:18:31:08 – 00:18:41:55
Agent Palmer
I there have been She-Hulk might be the exception for me right now, but like I thought Moon Knight should have been a movie. I thought six hours was too much.
00:18:42:01 – 00:18:42:48
Cam Smith
Yep.
00:18:42:53 – 00:18:58:42
Agent Palmer
Like, there were a bunch of shows that have come out I, I the same thing for Falcon and Winter soldier. Six hours was too much. It should have been just a not even a two hour movie. Cut that in half and it the pacing. So like so for me I’m getting to a point where it’s like, all right, there’s a little bit too much.
00:18:58:42 – 00:19:23:19
Agent Palmer
But I’m also, I’m reading stuff, I’m watching other things, or I’m trying to watch different things. And I there’s a lot out there and a lot, you know, a lot to choose from. And we know that. Right. But at the same time, that doesn’t mean you have to like like, yeah. All right. Let’s go to my other unpopular opinion.
00:19:23:24 – 00:19:28:57
Agent Palmer
I think Christopher Nolan needs to learn how to talk to an editor.
00:19:29:02 – 00:19:30:17
Cam Smith
Because, I.
00:19:30:17 – 00:19:49:19
Agent Palmer
Have enjoyed a few of his movies. I think the Dark Knight series is absolute crap. And I’ll tell you why. Because of all the superhero movies I have ever watched and the some that I didn’t like, Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy is the only one where I have multiple times looked at my watch, and if I have to look at my watch, your pacing is too damn slow.
00:19:49:19 – 00:20:09:16
Agent Palmer
Learn to edit. Most of those movies do not need to be two hours. Wow. I just, I just take I just, I’m done with it. I’m, I’m, you know, I’ve, I there have been I think I can’t remember which one there might be one Marvel movie of like the first 23 that I’ve looked at my watch through.
00:20:09:21 – 00:20:11:27
Agent Palmer
And I think it might have been Guardians two.
00:20:11:32 – 00:20:12:16
Cam Smith
If I, if.
00:20:12:20 – 00:20:30:30
Agent Palmer
If I’m being honest, but other otherwise I just get lost in it and there’s enough like I and I know that’s the Marvel formula. There’s enough like humor or change of pace to kind of get your interest back in in the slow parts. But like, Nolan doesn’t care. And I understand you’re trying to be an artist, but that’s not what Batman movies are for.
00:20:30:41 – 00:20:39:09
Agent Palmer
And I know that you’ve got a lot of people telling you it’s the best Batman thing ever, but I’m here to tell you that there are those of us that don’t agree.
00:20:39:13 – 00:21:06:32
Cam Smith
I don’t know, like what I really love about the Nolan films and even, you know, Tim Burton is the way that these directors are able to take that character and very much bring their own style and approach to storytelling to that character. He’s so malleable. And if you look at the history of Batman, you know, in the comics you go down each decade and the way that he’s informed by changes in culture and society, that’s what I always find interesting in that when I watch Christopher Nolan’s Batman.
00:21:06:32 – 00:21:29:15
Cam Smith
And I agree, actually The Dark Knight Rises, for me, it’s two long, close to three hours. You’re asking quite a bit at that point, and I think honestly, the third one in particular, that was not the plan for that movie. You know, the death of Heath ledger shook up what the third Nolan Batman was going to be. So what we got, I like it, it has some strengths, but it is kind of messy.
00:21:29:22 – 00:21:47:09
Cam Smith
Okay. The Dark Knight, though, I find very propulsive. I find that movie just is just carried on the energy of that, ledger performance. I’m always sucked in so much. I remember seeing that one. I went to the, Imax, midnight premiere back when we. We don’t do, midnight premieres anymore. In Vancouver. Okay.
00:21:47:21 – 00:22:10:07
Cam Smith
Unfortunately, it was honestly after the Dark Knight Rises shooting, that they stopped doing them here, because, I guess minimal security at theaters. But, so the, Dark Knight, though I remember sitting through that movie and just being so absorbed for 2.5 hours, and I remember the entire audience. This is midnight. It’s like two 3250 in the morning, right when this thing ends.
00:22:10:18 – 00:22:30:23
Cam Smith
Yeah. That audience sat through every, you know, every single credit in silence. And they applauded. When the movie went to the credits, they waited to the very end of the credits and applauded again. Wow. And I have never seen that ever happen again. That was a one time deal, and I ended up seeing that movie six times in theaters.
00:22:30:28 – 00:22:55:08
Cam Smith
And, so for, for me personally, that one really worked. I even like the Batman, which just came out fairly recently, which is three hours long. I guess it’s something about that character that I enjoy more of the filmmaker driven, immersive approach with. With Marvel, it’s producer driven. It’s a template approach. I, you know, Eternals was like almost I think it was like over 2.5 hours, which to me, that was the one that really felt like.
00:22:55:23 – 00:22:55:51
Agent Palmer
For me.
00:22:55:58 – 00:22:57:01
Cam Smith
I feel punchy.
00:22:57:03 – 00:23:21:40
Agent Palmer
Was, Eternals piqued my interest in history like and and the gods and stuff. And so like Eternals, every time they pulled from fact or, you know, or, you know, legend, I don’t know what you call it like because it’s not real. But they’re pulling from things that are, you know, have been passed down. And so that pulled me in in a different way.
00:23:21:47 – 00:23:45:06
Agent Palmer
I could see as a, as a just a straight moviegoer who doesn’t care about, you know, all the Greek gods and all the Norse gods and all the gods, and that I could see how. But every time they pulled in another name that I recognize, I was like, oh, okay, where’s this going? Right. But, what did they get back if if The Dark Knight was your last midnight showing, do you remember what your first one was?
00:23:45:11 – 00:23:55:42
Cam Smith
The it wasn’t the last. The Dark Knight Rises, I think it was the last one, because that was when the event happened. Right in in the US there. Yeah. But, sorry. What was the question? Sorry. The Dark Knight was my last.
00:23:55:42 – 00:23:58:30
Agent Palmer
No. So what was your first, Moon Knight showing?
00:23:58:35 – 00:24:20:42
Cam Smith
My first one, I think. Oh, I, I know this actually, the first one I ever went to. It’s really obvious. I’ll tell you. I was born in 1980. So if you start to factor in what age you’d be going to midnight screenings. Yeah, it was Star Wars Episode two, attack of the clones. I wasn’t Phantom Menace. I guess I wasn’t quite willing to commit.
00:24:20:42 – 00:24:23:38
Cam Smith
And I was also working a morning job. I was like, I can’t go out that late.
00:24:23:38 – 00:24:52:14
Agent Palmer
All right, so, yeah, you and I are in that same boat, right? But I, I was in high school, and there were a bunch of us at that Phantom Menace midnight showing, which is also the only, midnight showing I’ve ever been to. And it was, you know, I went to high school in a small town that we even had a theater was kind of, you know, nice.
00:24:52:19 – 00:24:55:17
Cam Smith
Which town was it? Wait, what? Which town was.
00:24:55:17 – 00:25:21:31
Agent Palmer
It? I was in Honesdale. Pennsylvania. It’s biggest thing. For U.S government is that it was, the county seat of our county. Right. So, like, we had a, I think it was a five or screen theater and it really only showed on one. And basically we left school and went right in line, and just waited all night.
00:25:21:31 – 00:25:33:54
Agent Palmer
And then we, you know, got to see it. And, you know, there were those of us that were tired the next day, we still went to school. And it it wasn’t my only midnight showing because it was Phantom Menace, like, I don’t.
00:25:33:59 – 00:25:34:36
Cam Smith
It broke you.
00:25:34:47 – 00:25:37:39
Agent Palmer
I didn’t hate Phantom Menace. Actually, no.
00:25:37:43 – 00:25:40:47
Cam Smith
No, no one did it really. At the time, but it’s a lot of retroactive.
00:25:40:59 – 00:25:59:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah, there’s a lot of retroactive hate, but I just. I just remember thinking to myself, like, the next time I saw it, like, there are parts of this movie I don’t remember. Is it because it was a midnight showing? Like, I think it was just one of those things where, like, you were excited, you were amped up.
00:25:59:49 – 00:26:28:31
Agent Palmer
We were in line for eight hours, basically, before we got let in to sit in the theater for another two hours before the film rolled. And it’s a whole big thing, and it’s a whole big to do. And then you get there and it’s like, oh. And then like, I remember watching it like, I don’t know, the next week or something going like there were whole scenes I don’t remember from last week, and I was like, I don’t if I want to see a movie twice opening week, it’s because I really liked it, not because I don’t remember.
00:26:28:37 – 00:26:46:09
Agent Palmer
Right. And so that’s kind of when I went, I think I’m, I think I’m done with and I was young, I was in high school. If you were ever going to be able to stay up and watch a movie at midnight after having gotten up for class that day, it’s when you’re in high school. And I was like, I think I might be, I think it might be done.
00:26:46:14 – 00:26:49:15
Cam Smith
Are you a night owl?
00:26:49:19 – 00:27:16:45
Agent Palmer
Okay, so this is a complicated question. In high school, I was a night owl. In college, I was a hybrid. I could still get up early, but I could also stay up late. I could kind of do a little bit of both. And now, as I approach 40, I’m very much a morning person.
00:27:16:50 – 00:27:34:09
Cam Smith
Okay. Yeah. Like, I’ve in my entire life really been a night owl. So I watch a lot of movies at midnight. So I was never really fazed seeing movies at midnight. But I had friends for sure. Who you could tell it wasn’t necessarily something they wanted to do on the regular. There was point. I was doing it like every two weeks or something like that.
00:27:34:09 – 00:27:52:02
Cam Smith
Back in my, you know, kind of like late 20s. But, no, for me, it’s interesting because I work are interesting to me at least. I work in a bakery, so five days a week, I am up at 330 in the morning to go to work and then off at, you know, 130 in the afternoon, unless I have a later shift.
00:27:52:07 – 00:28:05:59
Cam Smith
But most of the time I work 5 a.m., but you put me right into my days off. I’m staying up till 2 a.m., watching movies and sleeping till like nine or something. I have an incredibly flexible sleep pattern and I am blessed with that.
00:28:06:01 – 00:28:31:38
Agent Palmer
I. I worked overnights when I was working retail, it, when it was just about picking up a shift, really. And I, I learned that I was flexible in sleep schedule, but that it was not sustainable. Right. Like, and, one of the other things I learned is, I can’t nap, but I can force myself awake.
00:28:31:38 – 00:28:50:56
Agent Palmer
So if I had a night shift, I would. I just wouldn’t sleep for two days, basically. And then I would go to bed in the morning and sleep through the day. And it was only in, like, forcing that where I could, you know, I don’t know, watch or watch a movie, do a movie thing, marathon, play video game, whatever it was.
00:28:50:56 – 00:29:07:24
Agent Palmer
Just keep the coffee going to get me through that night to go to sleep at the right time. So I wake up in time for the shift. It was not. It wasn’t like I said, it wasn’t sustainable, but it was doable. I, I, I kind of envy you that you have a more of a flexible sleep schedule.
00:29:07:24 – 00:29:10:01
Agent Palmer
That’s, that’s got to come in handy.
00:29:10:05 – 00:29:24:45
Cam Smith
It very much does because when I’m doing, you know, spy hard stuff, I’ll be busy all day and then wind up watching the movies we’re going to be covering at like midnight roll out of bed the next morning and record the episode. So it’s been very convenient in that, aspect for sure. Yeah.
00:29:24:50 – 00:29:32:15
Agent Palmer
Is is there a, actually, I do you like baking?
00:29:32:20 – 00:29:38:58
Cam Smith
I don’t do it at home. Okay. It’s the sort of thing, you know, I, I do it work, but I don’t have any great love of doing it at home. No.
00:29:39:03 – 00:30:05:54
Agent Palmer
Gotcha. I, I’ve never I’ve, I’ve heard, from people that have been around me that have worked in bakeries that like, it’s a tough job. It’s never easy. But like, nobody ever. It’s one of the few jobs that people will admit is hard. But no one ever complains about it. Like, I’ve met the people I know. They’re they’re like, yeah, I worked a bakery is really hard work, but they’re never like, fuck.
00:30:05:54 – 00:30:14:57
Agent Palmer
I work in a bakery like it’s never that. And I’m always amazed by that because they always admit, yeah, it’s really hard work.
00:30:15:02 – 00:30:35:44
Cam Smith
Yeah, I don’t know what it is, but there’s something about, you know, I work with, you know, a fairly small crew. Early mornings. And you tend to find there’s something about when you have people there that early, you know, 5:00 am and it’s people doing it on the regular. It’s kind of like everyone’s kind of just a little touch delirious.
00:30:35:48 – 00:30:55:12
Cam Smith
So you’re kind of having fun. There’s a lot of laughter, you know. Yes. It’s it can be heavy work. But everyone kind of walks out the door laughing and smiling and it’s kind of hard to because I have friends, many friends who have jobs that pay significantly more than I do, for example. But like, they don’t like their jobs.
00:30:55:12 – 00:31:04:46
Cam Smith
A lot of them, they’re like really unhappy. And you’re like, oh God, I’ve got to work tomorrow. I don’t really care. I don’t mind working.
00:31:04:51 – 00:31:36:39
Agent Palmer
I mean, look, that’s of all the things to have in life, that’s probably one that’s kind of important, right? The I would be remiss if I didn’t ask, in in Canada. Yeah. You guys, have a different media up there, and I’ve. I’ve gone through the ringer. I did, I co-hosted our liner notes, and we did a five part series on Cancun.
00:31:36:39 – 00:32:13:08
Agent Palmer
So I was explained all of the things about, government, government financed, entertainment, you know, basically, I don’t I don’t, I don’t want to say this, but this is the only thing I have for the layman terms is like manufacturing Canadian culture. So it’s not just all imported from across the southern border. Does does this give you a different perspective on all of the things you’re intaking from, from the bond from Europe and, you know, the American stuff like that?
00:32:13:13 – 00:32:19:52
Agent Palmer
Does it do you have it? Do you find that you have a different perspective just from coming from where you are?
00:32:19:57 – 00:32:43:23
Cam Smith
I, I would say I probably do. I guess it’s my perspective. So I don’t think really about how it is different, but it would have to be because it as you know, a Canadian, we grew up in the shadow of the US, you know, immediate neighbors. And so I like to think, you know, we do our best or we, we soak up a fair amount of American culture and understanding.
00:32:43:23 – 00:33:05:09
Cam Smith
I mean, the the intricacies are going to be lost on us, right? Yeah. Unless you live in a country, you’re not necessarily going to grasp everything. But we have a sense of the overall, you know, historical sweep of the US and as well as, Britain for sure. So but when I really think of like the culture we really absorb, it is primarily us.
00:33:05:11 – 00:33:32:41
Cam Smith
Okay, us based stuff, I would say, we do have imported British TV shows and movies and things like that. But I would say it’s US entertainment is our primary focus. And Canada likes to often think of itself. I think is like, I think we like to inflate our own importance to a certain degree, maybe to feel better, in the sense of like, it’s been interesting doing Spy hards and and we’ve had, you know, shows talk about, our show.
00:33:32:41 – 00:34:02:56
Cam Smith
Like, I remember we did an episode on Zero Dark 30, and I’m Canadian, my co-host is British. And then we had an American guest on who is currently living in the UK. And, they were reviewing the episode and they were listening to me talk about how, I felt as a Vancouver, you know, Canadian citizen post 9/11, after it had happened with the attacks, and just saying that we were really concerned because, you know, what impacts the US can have ramifications for us as well.
00:34:02:56 – 00:34:27:27
Cam Smith
And we were very much, you know, like we were grieving just as much. And I remember just being absorbed and just sitting there watching the newscast for 24 hours straight. And I remember listening to this podcast that was reviewing that episode of our show and saying that they had never realized that, like, we would think about the U.S. at all, like we would be concerned or feel like there would be any impact on us because of things happening in our country.
00:34:27:32 – 00:34:58:19
Agent Palmer
Yeah, well, that’s that’s something that only an American can say, right. Because we don’t consider anyone else like. And I, I see that, having had political discussions with like, I, I know an exorbitant amount of Canadians for someone who and specifically Western Canadians for someone who’s never been there. And I will say that we are very hard to look past our own shadow as Americans.
00:34:58:24 – 00:35:32:59
Agent Palmer
And so I would I would consider myself because of my friendships and the content I’ve consumed, an educate, a Canadian educated American. Right. And I know that it makes sense to me now, because I know that, you know what? 85% of your population is within 50 miles of the northern border of our northern border, and your southern border, which would mean that let’s face it, if anything happens to Seattle, you need to be concerned in Vancouver, right?
00:35:32:59 – 00:35:57:41
Agent Palmer
Like it’s close enough to, like, like if if Buffalo gets or even New York gets screwed, depending on the prevailing winds, then Ontario needs to worry, right? Yeah. And so but as Americans, we don’t consider anything outside of our own borders. We’re very selfish as a society like that. And so despite the fact that you’re our neighbors, we don’t think of you.
00:35:57:41 – 00:36:24:58
Agent Palmer
You’re you’re you’re you’re literally another country, right? And so you might as well be around the on the other side of the planet for us. And like that’s just kind of our, our thing. I, I the, the last five years have been kind of funny for me because, I’ve been I’ve been consuming more Canadian content, by choice because I’m curious.
00:36:25:03 – 00:36:52:07
Agent Palmer
And I think that the things I have consumed have, have allowed me to make the following statement. We’re basically the same with different values, right? Our, our our entertainment comes from the same place. We’re motivated by the same things. Right? I, you know, the, the example I like to give is so I said I, I was in a very small town.
00:36:52:07 – 00:37:23:28
Agent Palmer
I went to high school in a very small town, I found, corner gas. Oh, yeah. Absolutely relatable. Not because I lived in the middle of nowhere, but because small town is small town is small town. It doesn’t matter where you are, right? And it’s one of those things where, like, I turned my parents onto that show because obviously they lived in a small town with me, and and it’s just it was approachable.
00:37:23:33 – 00:37:38:47
Agent Palmer
Like, I don’t know if there were any Americans in that writer’s room, but I know for the most part, the creators and the actors are all Canadian. And so to me, that means that small town in Canada is the same as small town here, right? Which is probably the same as small town anywhere.
00:37:38:52 – 00:38:00:05
Cam Smith
Yeah. I mean, I remember traveling in Australia, New Zealand in my 20s, and it’s like you kind of just realize a certain point, like everyone’s kind of the same everywhere. It’s just different, you know, political structures or whatever. Certain things that influence the culture. But everyone’s pretty much, you know, everyone just kind of wants to live the same types of lives more or less.
00:38:00:05 – 00:38:00:23
Cam Smith
Right?
00:38:00:25 – 00:38:20:04
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I, I would like to think so. Although, you know, this is and then you get back to like the spy thing and it’s like, well, how many Americans have infiltrated the Canadian government for the sake of just like the, the, the, the information? Like, we know nothing’s probably going to happen, but somebody’s got to be looking right.
00:38:20:04 – 00:38:38:52
Agent Palmer
Somebody’s got to tap that or listen to the phone. Right. Like you can’t not have your eyes on everything. And so like. Maybe. But I don’t know, like I mean, Canadian bacon’s a funny movie, but I presume that at some point somebody was like, you know, we should watch them.
00:38:38:57 – 00:38:46:02
Cam Smith
Like, I don’t know, I don’t think we’re up to that much. It’s pretty quiet. Come on over.
00:38:46:07 – 00:39:05:00
Agent Palmer
I don’t think I don’t think you really want that. Although I will say I my favorite bit of, I always turn into a Canadian fanboy when I talk to a Canadian. Like, my favorite bit of Canadian trivia is that we don’t go to the moon without Canada. Quote unquote, scanning the arrow program.
00:39:05:05 – 00:39:05:25
Cam Smith
Right.
00:39:05:25 – 00:39:28:43
Agent Palmer
Because we stole absolutely 95% of all of your engineers and went, yeah, come, come, come down to Houston and help us put a man on the moon. And, I don’t think you guys get enough credit for that. Although you guys are very humble, and I don’t think you would ask for the credit either.
00:39:28:48 – 00:39:45:54
Cam Smith
Yeah. I mean, it’s been my experience. Yeah, it is, it is somewhat of a mellow country. And I don’t really know why. I don’t know what drives that. It’s one of the things that I guess, it’s interesting when I hear. Yeah, like someone who’s not a Canadian, bring that up, because I always get that sense as well.
00:39:45:54 – 00:39:50:08
Cam Smith
But I’m not exactly sure what sort of drives the national mood in that direction.
00:39:50:13 – 00:40:15:01
Agent Palmer
I mean, I if I was going to guess and I’m probably wrong, but if I was going to guess, I would say it’s the it’s the, it’s it’s the British in you. Like the because the British don’t like to make waves either. Generally speaking, as a culture, I’m not saying that that’s still the case. But you know, it was during the founding and we were like, screw you guys, we’re done.
00:40:15:06 – 00:40:30:19
Agent Palmer
And you guys kind of held on to it a little bit longer. And I think maybe some of that like, now keep your head down. Like this is your lot in life. You either pick yourself up or you just get through it. And meanwhile we were dreaming big like, oh no, I’m gonna I’m gonna win the lottery.
00:40:30:19 – 00:40:47:03
Agent Palmer
Like, that’s not. No. That’s that. No, don’t don’t, don’t that’s not an aspiration. That’s something that happens to you along the way. That’s not an aspiration. And you guys were like, yeah, we’ll just keep doing our we’ll just keep our head down and keep going.
00:40:47:08 – 00:40:55:16
Cam Smith
To be fair, I do play the lotto every week, so perhaps that is part of my dream as well. I.
00:40:55:21 – 00:40:59:21
Agent Palmer
I mean, I don’t know, man. What would you do with it?
00:40:59:25 – 00:41:21:23
Cam Smith
Oh, I mean, I am not an extravagant person because of course, there’s those people that are like, oh, I’d be buying, you know, solid gold car or something along those lines. Something insane. I can live pretty simply. You know, Vancouver real estate is very expensive. Would you like to live? Yeah, I would probably stay in Vancouver.
00:41:21:23 – 00:41:36:01
Cam Smith
Yeah. Okay. Family’s all here. I would most likely stay in Vancouver by probably an apartment. I don’t even think I’d buy a house. I again, I like to live fairly modestly, but a nice apartment. And I would just travel a lot, and I’d be pretty content there.
00:41:36:01 – 00:42:02:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I I’m, I wouldn’t travel, but I would basically just do what I’m doing like that. It’s, it’s people don’t like when you say that. Right. Because they’re like, well what are you doing? Well, I mean, I’m, I right now I’m taking gigs as they come as a consultant, but I’m helping friends create things and I’m creating stuff myself.
00:42:02:09 – 00:42:24:51
Agent Palmer
I’m I’m good enough like that. I’m kind of with you. Like, that’s enough for me. I don’t I don’t need that much more. So I, I just want to let you know, like, you’re not alone in not wanting, like, I don’t I don’t want a McMansion. I don’t even want a mansion. Like, I feel like that’s just more house to clean is the way I look at it.
00:42:24:56 – 00:42:40:17
Agent Palmer
I like having my own space, which is why I think, I don’t know if I ever want to go back to an apartment, but I don’t know. You’re. But I think if you want to stay in Vancouver, like, from what I understand, like, there’s not a lot of houses.
00:42:40:22 – 00:42:58:40
Cam Smith
Well, you can get a house. It’s very expensive. Like, you know, 1.5 million or something just for a basic house. Okay? So, you know, it gets quite costly. So. And I just, honestly, I just never want to shovel snow again for the rest of my life if I can avoid it. So, I’m good.
00:42:58:40 – 00:43:01:33
Agent Palmer
All right. I’m good. So the real answer.
00:43:01:38 – 00:43:02:19
Cam Smith
Yeah.
00:43:02:23 – 00:43:12:28
Agent Palmer
I mean, you still have to dig out your car. You’ll never fix that, right? I guess you could be rich enough to just always get an Uber and never have to dig up your car again. Yeah.
00:43:12:33 – 00:43:16:36
Cam Smith
Yeah. I mean, I don’t even drive, so I just commute everywhere. So.
00:43:16:36 – 00:43:33:57
Agent Palmer
It’s the Hoover that. I mean, I guess I, I Vancouver is one of the large cities of North America. I’m not even going to say, you know, Canada, it isn’t of North America. It is it kind of in like New York in that regard where, like, you don’t have to drive like you can.
00:43:34:02 – 00:44:00:20
Cam Smith
It’s kind of tough because like, in terms of, like the Vancouver, you know, city Vancouver, like for me to get to the city, it’s like a 15 minute, you know, C bus or ferry or whatever you want to call it right away. Yeah. That is not that’s not difficult at all. It’s more that like all of the suburbs, that kind of are around the city, it gets more difficult for people to basically, you know, head back and forth.
00:44:00:25 – 00:44:16:43
Cam Smith
On busses, it can get very long if you’re bussing to different communities. But where I am and, you know, just given the job I have and things like that, it it’s very easy to commute around just on the bus or, you know, the Sky train or, c bus.
00:44:16:48 – 00:44:26:32
Agent Palmer
Gotcha. Yeah. I, I can’t imagine not driving. I just were you always. Did you always grow up in the city?
00:44:26:36 – 00:44:39:53
Cam Smith
Well, no, I grew up in the suburbs. And like, because North Vancouver is all suburbs. Really? And so, yeah, like, I wasn’t the city kid at all. But even in, like, where we lived in the suburbs, it was not difficult to get around.
00:44:40:05 – 00:45:07:42
Agent Palmer
Okay? I mean, I guess the, the little time I, I learned to drive while I was living in the country, so to speak. Right. So I think that there’s, I don’t I don’t want to say it’s a prison sentence, but if you can’t drive and the nearest anything that you want to do is at least 20 minutes away, like, you either need a friend who can drive, which is usually because you’re too young to.
00:45:07:47 – 00:45:27:04
Agent Palmer
Yeah, or you need to learn how to drive. And I, I think it’s one of those things where, you know, I take it for granted a bit. It’s just because, like, I, I can’t imagine not. But I know people that don’t, don’t drive. So it’s I, I think it’s a lot less hassle. It’s kind of like not wanting to shovel.
00:45:27:09 – 00:45:53:44
Cam Smith
Sure. Yeah. And I mean, whenever I travel to, you know, the States, whether it’s, you know, Seattle, California, places like that, you kind of realize like, oh like where I live, I can get to a lot of places on foot. Like, we walk a lot, you know, friends who also don’t drive. And we just walk everywhere, you know, take busses or whatever, but, like, there’s a lot of time just communicating distances or commuting distances on foot.
00:45:53:49 – 00:45:59:15
Cam Smith
And there’s definitely a lot of places you just can’t do that outside of where I live.
00:45:59:20 – 00:46:00:11
Agent Palmer
Well, I.
00:46:00:16 – 00:46:01:25
Cam Smith
It.
00:46:01:29 – 00:46:27:37
Agent Palmer
Come, come to the East Coast and it’ll be slightly different. I yeah. One of the things that I, I think is funny about the specifically the US and city planning is that on the East Coast you can walk places like you can definitely walk places. And you can plan trips like we, this past last summer, we went to, Camden Yards to go to some baseball games, but it was also like we parked the car.
00:46:27:37 – 00:46:45:01
Agent Palmer
Once we went to the baseball games, we went to the Inner Harbor like we we got a hotel that was basically within walking distance about everything we wanted to do. And you could do that on the East Coast. And it’s not just Baltimore. You could do it in Boston, you could do it in New York. You can even do it down in Miami, like you could do it all along the East Coast.
00:46:45:06 – 00:47:12:20
Agent Palmer
But somehow the city planners, the further west you go went. Yeah, nobody needs to. Everybody’s got it. They just assumed everybody would have a car. Like you’re outside of Vegas, which is very walking friendly. Yeah. The further west to, like, you’re getting a cab, you’re getting an Uber, you’re. You’re not walking those places. And I feel like maybe it says something about expansion, but at the same time, it’s like.
00:47:12:20 – 00:47:21:22
Agent Palmer
I like the idea of, like, planning a trip to a city where I can drive there and park my car and be done until I leave.
00:47:21:27 – 00:47:40:38
Cam Smith
Yeah. And that’s something I fell in love with traveling to, like New Zealand in Australia, just my friend and I would be, you know, walking ten miles a day just covering so much ground, just seeing, you know, kind of these entire cities and these communities and, you know, going on like huge nature hikes, things like that. It was it was wonderful.
00:47:40:38 – 00:47:44:39
Cam Smith
And that’s something I really like here as well, being able to do those sorts of things.
00:47:44:44 – 00:47:50:46
Agent Palmer
Do you have a place you still want to go that you haven’t?
00:47:50:51 – 00:48:10:32
Cam Smith
Yeah. I’ve never made it to the UK, or Europe for that matter. So those are both high on my list. I am a big World War Two buff, so there’s several. You know, I’d like to see areas of France for sure. Poland, Germany and and obviously, you know, I have friends, made several friends in the UK.
00:48:10:32 – 00:48:27:46
Cam Smith
I would like to go and visit, because I’ve never been able to make it over there. I see them in Vegas, but I never get to see them where they live. And I, would also like to see it’s still like on my bucket list to make it to New York. I think the furthest east I’ve made it in the US is Colorado, I think.
00:48:27:46 – 00:48:31:26
Agent Palmer
What’s the furthest east you’ve made? It in Canada.
00:48:31:31 – 00:48:37:13
Cam Smith
That’s a funny question. I’ve never made it outside of British Columbia. Canada. Yeah.
00:48:37:16 – 00:49:08:40
Agent Palmer
All right, all right. I mean. I will I will pimp somebody else’s content for a moment. The thing that kind of made me fall in love with, like, I fell in love with Canadian culture because of friends and, like, their suggestions and stuff. But the thing that made me fall in love with Western Canada specifically was loading. Randy Rudden did their spoof on Top Gear’s adventures called Road Quest, and they went from Victoria all the way up to the Yukon.
00:49:08:45 – 00:49:52:14
Agent Palmer
Okay. And it was I mean, those guys know how to shoot, or at least they brought somebody along who knew how to shoot landscapes. So it’s just it’s just beauty. Like, it’s just raw beauty. But I want I want to get back to Vegas and Star Trek for a moment. Yeah. I, I, I never I was never, a Trek person, despite the fact that at one point in my athletic career in high school, Star Trek was my nickname, mainly because Starship is really hard when you’re in high school and people will find any reason they can to not call you your real name.
00:49:52:19 – 00:50:12:11
Agent Palmer
But I I’ve made it a thing where, like, it’s on my bucket list. All of the Star Trek’s not just one, are there, but all of them. Because I get the references. Like, I can watch fanboys, and I understand exactly what they’re making fun of when they’re making fun of Trek. Like, I’m not like, oh, they’re just making fun of Trek, like, oh, I know what it is like.
00:50:12:11 – 00:50:37:44
Agent Palmer
I get the concept and like, I’ll make references to Trek that I’ve picked up because if you follow enough pop culture, I think the same is true of Star Wars. You don’t have to see Star Wars. You’ll know, do, or do not like. There are things you will pick up along the way, but I want to get to know the source material and everybody tells me I’m crazy because I want to start at the beginning, because that’s the way I kind of am about things, when I want to get into them.
00:50:37:49 – 00:50:55:56
Agent Palmer
And so I have a friend who has watched everything, and I was like, look, if if you’ll help me here, I’ll watch the original series and then next gen or I’ll, deep based. I’ll like, I’ll watch all of it as long as you watch it with me so I can talk to somebody about it.
00:50:56:00 – 00:50:56:22
Cam Smith
Right.
00:50:56:36 – 00:51:30:57
Agent Palmer
And he’s like, oh, we’re we’re doing this like. Absolutely. And I’m not a novice. I’m not a virgin. Like, I’ve seen some episodes here or there. I’m not like, I’m not a hater. Right. Like I think there can be room for both. But like, I’m basically still kind of a virgin. Like, I’ve not watched all the movies and I’ve seen a handful of episodes from insert series here, like, do you have any, like, tips?
00:51:30:57 – 00:51:49:07
Agent Palmer
As I like, because I will eventually. I mean, it’s going to happen in the next 12 months probably that I will start embarking on this journey. And I know there’s a lot of content out there, so it’s not like it’s going to be done in a month. But like any tips, as I kind of start to undergo this journey for basically the first time.
00:51:49:12 – 00:52:22:47
Cam Smith
I think you’re on a similar track as I actually was when I got into Star Trek. I was not a child like watching Star Trek. That was not my thing. I was a Star Wars kid through and through. And then I put out other interests as well. But, like, it wasn’t until, the late 2000 and, you know, the J.J. Abrams Star Trek reboot was coming to theaters, and I just had this weird whim, of just like, saying, hey, I should just watch the original Star Trek show.
00:52:22:52 – 00:52:38:19
Cam Smith
I don’t know why I thought this was a good idea. I’m not a big TV guy. I have real commitment issues when it comes to television. There are some. I’ve never seen a single episode of Game of Thrones that there’s too many seasons. I can’t. I’ll watch it in ten years or something. But for Star Trek, I decided to just.
00:52:38:23 – 00:52:59:51
Cam Smith
I went to the store, bought season one on DVD, and I would sit at, university on my lunch breaks, which tells you how cool I was in university and watch an episode of the original series. And I absolutely fell in love with it, and that it just has such amazing world building. Every episode is hopping genres, so you never know what you’re going to get.
00:52:59:56 – 00:53:11:25
Cam Smith
And everyone knows Leonard Nimoy is iconic as Spock, but there’s something about Shatner’s performance on that show. Everyone does the Shatner impression. You know, the spaces in between the talking and I mean.
00:53:11:26 – 00:53:34:15
Agent Palmer
Just thing I, I think it it’s it the crutch I have to forget. Okay. Yeah. As I, as I embark on this is not any of the like the Saturday Night Live spoofing. I have to get Zapp Brannigan from Futurama out of my head, because like, that is absolutely the biggest, most obvious rip off. And I was a huge Futurama fan.
00:53:34:15 – 00:53:41:29
Agent Palmer
So, like, it’s one of those things where I’m like, yeah, I gotta, I gotta kind of just push that away because I know that that’s, that’s caricature.
00:53:41:34 – 00:54:18:02
Cam Smith
But the thing about Shatner’s performance is what people imitate is very much the movies. And as he kind of goes through the movies and you get to kind of that later 80s period, that’s when he really starts to accentuate it and it starts to feel a little more cartoonish, especially Star Trek five, which he directs himself. But when you go back to that original series, he is one of the most convincing, persuasive, inspirational leaders I’ve ever seen in television and you would happily sign up to, you know, work under James T Kirk navigating the cosmos.
00:54:18:02 – 00:54:40:50
Cam Smith
And that’s something I did not expect to experience watching that show. I really thought it would be parody Kirk. You know, William Shatner going over the top, and there’s definitely over-the-top acting here and there, but there’s something so inspirational about him as a captain figure that I fell in love with the show, and it was really just watching that show, went to a local Star Trek con that was only, you know, I think I just went for one day and had so much fun.
00:54:40:50 – 00:55:01:24
Cam Smith
And, you know, they were talking about, you know, DS9 and Voyager and other shows like that. And I just kind of went down the rabbit hole, and I didn’t actually follow it up chronologically. I had a friend in journalism school who was like, you need to watch Deep Space Nine. So I watched Deep Space Nine, and it is, I think, the best storytelling in all of Star Trek.
00:55:01:24 – 00:55:13:29
Cam Smith
And then I went and did all of them. I’ve watched every episode of Star Trek, including, you know, the 70s animated series and all that sort of thing. But, for me, my, like, the original series is the one that really has the, you know, closest place in my heart.
00:55:13:34 – 00:55:39:06
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah. Because I, I, I, I’ve fallen in love with chronological. And I think part of it is because you get to grow along with the series, like, all of these franchises are very different. And I know that I know that people like to argue about, like, the order of which to watch Star Wars movies, but you watch it in the release order, like that.
00:55:39:06 – 00:55:55:41
Agent Palmer
There’s no I don’t think there’s a real argument unless you’ve seen it a thousand times and you want to see it out of order. And I would say the same thing for Marvel, because Star Wars and Marvel both get spoiled when you watch them in sequence order as opposed to release order. And that’s not the purpose of it.
00:55:55:46 – 00:56:27:42
Agent Palmer
Right. And I, I think the I’m, I’m excited to see new content and I don’t mind watching older things like, I’m not somebody who’s like, oh, the production value in the 70s is but like you said, oh no, I understand it. It’s different. Like I understand the thing. But I also know that when this is all said and done, I get to rewatch Futurama with a brand new of like, I can know, like, oh, that’s a star Trek thing, but now I’ll know what Star Trek thing it is.
00:56:27:46 – 00:56:46:19
Agent Palmer
And and there’s a lot of other things within pop culture in this that the other thing that are going to open up to me and I’m, I’m excited for that too. But I’m also there’s a lot coming my way. And there’s I have I have some very hardcore Star Trek fans. They’re like, well, you watch the movies, skip this, this and this.
00:56:46:20 – 00:57:09:12
Agent Palmer
I’m like, no, I, I want to see the good and the bad because, you know, I, I’m not going to like every episode. I’m not going to like every movie. So I might as well hate the movies that everybody else does. Or maybe I won’t. Who knows? But I’m I’m kind of excited about it. Like, it’s it, it’s it’s the outside of like, reading through authors.
00:57:09:17 – 00:57:16:36
Agent Palmer
This is the first like large undertaking in media. I’ve, I’ve ever really done so yeah.
00:57:16:36 – 00:57:39:37
Cam Smith
Like I think, you know, if you do that original series, it’s three seasons. It’s not like the massive commitment once you’re getting to like TNG, that’s where it’s like 26 episodes a season, seven seasons like, and same with Voyager and DS9. They’re the same length of time as well. And so it is like more of an ask, I suppose, but like there is something about that original series that there’s like a magic there that they just tapped into.
00:57:39:37 – 00:57:57:27
Cam Smith
That happens every now and again. You know, you mentioned Star Wars, but that original trilogy, there’s a magic between the frames there that just they never really replicated ever again. And Star Trek is that’s debatable because I think DS9 did it. And I think for many TNG did it as well. But to me it’s that original one.
00:57:57:27 – 00:58:10:34
Cam Smith
It’s just they weren’t working with a massive amount of money. And yet you look at what they could conjure up just through, you know, determination and imagination.
00:58:10:38 – 00:58:16:49
Cam Smith
You.
00:58:16:54 – 00:58:41:41
Agent Palmer
Since the recording of this episode and its release, I too have fallen in love with Star Trek The Original Series, which I’m sure you’ll hear more about going forward as I have embarked on my Star Trek journey. But what I want to say here is that it is important to have these conversations specifically with people from other countries, and if possible, and perhaps more importantly, those people who like cam and I share a common interest.
00:58:41:46 – 00:59:06:54
Agent Palmer
But not all of our views perfectly align. This leads to more interesting discussions like the one you just heard, but it can also teach you something. The thing is, when these conversations end and I want to do it again with the same person about the same or similar things. That’s when I think I’ve had a great conversation, which is often, but it’s not something I always point out here.
00:59:06:58 – 00:59:29:00
Agent Palmer
I wanted to point it out because this was super fun. It’s also why I believe that I argue with some of my best friends often because we are similar and not the same. We often end up on opposite sides of a question and that’s healthy. When was the last time you had a shouting match or argued passionately against your best friend, only to call it a night?
00:59:29:13 – 00:59:50:42
Agent Palmer
Give each other a hug and talk about when you’re having dinner again next week. Probably. And if that hasn’t happened recently, you should fix that. And if it hasn’t happened ever, then I’m sad for you and you should fix that too. Seriously, you should fix that. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 89. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes.
00:59:50:42 – 01:00:11:27
Agent Palmer
And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact myself and my guest, Cam Smith, in the show notes. There you will also find a link to the podcast. Cam co-hosts that Spy hards podcast, and you can also visit Spy Hard.
01:00:11:32 – 01:00:31:37
Agent Palmer
Com for more information as well. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
01:00:31:41 – 01:01:02:17
Agent Palmer
You.
01:01:02:22 – 01:01:10:02
Agent Palmer
See? All right. Cam, do you have one final question for me?
01:01:10:07 – 01:01:25:30
Cam Smith
Well, I kind of do. I, as I, you know, said, I’m a huge film buff, and I’ve heard you talk about, you know, the Dark Knight films, Star Wars, Marvel. But I’m curious if I would ask you, what is your favorite film?
01:01:25:35 – 01:01:51:25
Agent Palmer
So there’s a part of me that wants to say I need a genre specific. Otherwise it’s going to be based on mood because it I think it changes. And I think, or I need some parameters, right. Like a, a while ago on social media, there was a thing where it was like, oh, name your favorite movie from every year you’ve been alive, right?
01:01:51:29 – 01:02:09:33
Agent Palmer
That’s fine. Like, that’s easier to do, right? Because, you know, you go, you know, I was born in 1983, so I get to, you know, even though I didn’t watch it in 1983, like, I get to pick a movie from 1983 and go forward. And so I have a document somewhere, and I always lose it for a few years, and then I end up picking it up and going like, oh, I haven’t touched this.
01:02:09:33 – 01:02:30:20
Agent Palmer
Like as an example, I haven’t touched this since 2015, so I’ve got a few years to just what have I watched? What haven’t I watched and usually it’s fine to lose it for a while and go back because like, I don’t always watch movies that year that come out. So it’s like, oh, well, I saw a movie in 2020 that came out in 2015, but that’s the pressure.
01:02:30:25 – 01:02:53:56
Agent Palmer
But generally speaking, I think it’s it’s there are comfort movies, which is what I like to use when I, when, when this question comes up, if nobody gives me a genre, then it’s going to be one of like five films. Twister is up there for me because as, as a movie, I can just, I will get sucked in no matter if it’s on TV sucked in.
01:02:53:56 – 01:03:14:30
Agent Palmer
You say I just if I just sucked in, man, like I just can’t help it. Fifth element is another one if it’s on, I yeah, I, if I, if I like we use sling right now if I see it on like a TNT or a TBS or like a sci fi or whatever, like I same with twister.
01:03:14:30 – 01:03:31:23
Agent Palmer
I’m, I’m turning it on. So those two are like, really up there because I feel like for your favorite movie, you have to be able to watch it over and over and over again. And the third one that goes into that category as far as like being on TV a lot and all this stuff is Apollo 13, right.
01:03:31:28 – 01:04:04:08
Agent Palmer
Just because I, I know the problems with the movie, as a, as a, like a NASA history buff, among other things, like, I’ve read all of the, like, firsthand accounts from the biographies or autobiographies of the people that were there. But there’s just something that Ron Howard captures. And I think the other thing would be for me, the the fourth one, which I’m going to, you know, call a cheat on, is anything in the Jurassic franchise.
01:04:04:13 – 01:04:12:14
Agent Palmer
I know that there are people that absolutely hate everything after Park, and I know there are people that hate world.
01:04:12:19 – 01:04:14:33
Cam Smith
That’s me, the World Series.
01:04:14:44 – 01:04:40:26
Agent Palmer
I, I can watch all of it every time. No, no matter what. And I, it’s always fun because us, specific Lee, has weird things as far as rights to things. So you’ll see, like a marathon where it’s Jurassic Park, Jurassic Park three, Jurassic World, and then Jurassic Park. And that’s the marathon. It’s like where? Yeah.
01:04:40:31 – 01:05:10:49
Agent Palmer
Oh, okay. Whatever. Like, but I, I don’t have a problem with the Lost World, and I like, I just, I’ve loved that franchise. And to that extent, the Netflix series Camp Cretaceous is such a it’s probably the best fanfiction I’ve ever watched that was really made into a thing, because it’s so faithful to the canon that exists, even though the canon is basically we made dinosaurs, we thought we could control that.
01:05:10:49 – 01:05:12:24
Agent Palmer
They escaped, again.
01:05:12:33 – 01:05:13:47
Cam Smith
Right. Like, right.
01:05:13:52 – 01:05:43:02
Agent Palmer
So that’s it. But I feel like I need to include a few other films because, like, two classics that I think got remade. Well, but the classics are better or The Italian Job and Ocean’s 11. I don’t think enough people give credence to the authentic originals. I think both the. And I’m not spoiling anything, I promise that.
01:05:43:02 – 01:05:50:06
Agent Palmer
But both the original Italian Job and the original Ocean’s 11 have better endings than their remake counterparts.
01:05:50:06 – 01:06:03:01
Cam Smith
By far the Ocean’s 11 original. I’m not a big fan of the movie as a whole, but I agree the ending is fantastic. It is actually worth the, two hour journey just for that ending. Yep.
01:06:03:01 – 01:06:31:55
Agent Palmer
And then, the one that I think, gets left off a lot of lists when people talk about, like, classic cinema is the man who would be king. Yeah. Which I’ve never written about because, every time I turn it on to watch it, I just get sucked in and I stop taking notes, and I just, like, I’m just like, oh, oh, oh, like, I, I, okay, I guess I’m just watching this now again, it’s fine.
01:06:31:55 – 01:06:53:55
Agent Palmer
But, like, the man who would be King is, one of those personal favorites. I probably if it was on TV more, I’d probably put it in with twister and, you know, Fifth Element and that kind of stuff. But those are the I think that’s the, the genre. Now, I just gave you a bunch right now tonight, probably Fifth Element because it’s the one I’ve seen.
01:06:54:00 – 01:07:11:48
Agent Palmer
I, I haven’t seen most recently, like I saw twister two weeks ago, and I saw Apollo 13 last week. Ask me again in six months. It’ll probably be one of those other ones. And there have been movies I’ve liked obviously, since since 1998.
01:07:11:48 – 01:07:14:08
Cam Smith
Okay. I was gonna say that late 90s period.
01:07:14:19 – 01:07:51:56
Agent Palmer
There have been movies since then, but, you know, maybe, maybe the first Iron Man cracks the top of that list. But and and as much of a marvel fanboy as I have become and kind of fallen out of. I love The Avengers, but it doesn’t hold up if you don’t watch everything before it. And I love, the, the, the first Captain America, but it it’s it’s still kinda relying on a few things that you get from other things.
01:07:51:56 – 01:08:13:05
Agent Palmer
So Iron Man is like the only real standalone is probably the only quote unquote modern movie that I’d put up there. Everything else is good. It might have been my favorite movie of that year. Going back to that, that list thing, and maybe I should just finally put that up on the site just so I don’t forget about it.
01:08:13:05 – 01:08:35:41
Agent Palmer
And then somebody will be like, hey, you know, you haven’t touch this in a few years. I’ll but, you know, and again, it’s, you know, I go back to like, I want to review all of those things at some point. Right. But that’s kind of where I’m at. And there’s other movies, obviously, that I didn’t mention that I do love, but favorites, I, I think that covers it.
01:08:35:43 – 01:08:52:14
Agent Palmer
Like I’m going to listen back in the edit and go like, you know what I should have said? Like WarGames, which I love, and hackers, which I love and like, like other things, but I don’t know if those two, for me, even though I love them, have that kind of rewatch ability. Again, though, depends on the time.
01:08:52:14 – 01:09:07:17
Agent Palmer
Maybe it’s just one of those things I’m in the mood to watch. You know, a very young Ally Sheedy in a very young Michael Broderick. Maybe that’s just let’s let’s watch. Let’s see how a game of Tic-Tac-Toe ends the world, you know, that kind of thing. Who knows?
01:09:07:22 – 01:09:21:32
Cam Smith
You know, that’s fair. Yeah. I mean, for me, like, you know, jaws is my all time favorite. And, it’s a movie that I’ve just I’ve seen it probably close to 100 times at this point in my life. And, it’s one of the few movies I would call perfect. It is just.
01:09:21:40 – 01:09:21:58
Agent Palmer
So.
01:09:21:59 – 01:09:23:58
Cam Smith
Blending that 70s character.
01:09:23:58 – 01:09:46:39
Agent Palmer
I’m going to interrupt for a second, because I got to tell you that I find it a me. I don’t consider myself a movie guy. I consider myself a consumer of media, but not like a movie guy. Yeah, the amount of movie people that I talk to that jaws is their number one. Like I under like, I understand where it belongs.
01:09:46:50 – 01:10:02:26
Agent Palmer
But I’m always amazed that even if, like Spielberg’s catalog like that, that’s the one, right? Like just, personally. And I know, I know Jurassic Park is one of them, but, like.
01:10:02:31 – 01:10:03:01
Cam Smith
It’s up there.
01:10:03:01 – 01:10:17:09
Agent Palmer
My favorite Spielberg would be Close Encounters. Like, that’s I think my favorite Spielberg. But like every movie person I talk to, they always say jaws is my or they pick a Hitchcock. Usually it’s one of those two.
01:10:17:13 – 01:10:22:14
Cam Smith
Psycho is and Rear Window are definitely on my, you know, top ten or something. Yeah for sure.
01:10:22:19 – 01:10:33:41
Agent Palmer
Yeah yeah, yeah. I mean, here’s the real question for you and I don’t need the list, but like, is your top 1010 movies or is your top ten like 15 movies?
01:10:33:46 – 01:11:00:01
Cam Smith
I honestly don’t have like a top ten list or anything because to me it’s like for me, jaws is kind of the pinnacle of film for me. Like, you know, that blending of character storytelling with like the blockbuster elements that would take over the industry, and I think it does it best among anything really. You can look hold it up against two Star Wars, which I also love the original Star Wars trilogy, but it doesn’t have the character depth that I think jaws has.
01:11:00:01 – 01:11:18:25
Cam Smith
That’s the Star Wars trilogy. So it tends to be like Jaws and Star Wars are equally important in terms of kind of shaping me in my young life, but jaws is the one that stuck with me, more so over the long haul. But beyond that, I kind of am a little wider because I’m really into Hitchcock stuff.
01:11:18:25 – 01:11:37:06
Cam Smith
There’s a lot of Tarantino movies. I love Billy Wilder films I’m a huge fan of, all that jazz. There’s just like it if you I find if you’re a huge movie buff, you watch so many movies that the idea of a ten list doesn’t even make sense at a certain point. That’s fair, because you’ve seen too many.
01:11:37:11 – 01:11:55:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, because I like as you’re talking. Right. And I’m thinking about like. All right, well, I’ve seen all of those. Yeah. And some of it is because I’ve been friends with those, quote unquote with you. I’ve been friends with you like film people, whether it was in high school or college, and they’re like, oh, you have to check out like.
01:11:55:21 – 01:12:13:50
Agent Palmer
And that’s the person, right? Like, if you’re not a film person yourself, you run into you and or listeners out there. You run into cam and he’s like, oh, you got to check out Rear Window. Oh, you’ve never watched Hitchcock. Let’s watch psycho like that kind of stuff. And then you get me and like, I’m going to be like, you ever watch her out back?
01:12:13:50 – 01:12:42:33
Agent Palmer
She’s with it. Like, I’m going to pick something that’s out there, but maybe not. That’s slightly critically off the beaten path. Right. And so I feel like, you know, we’re both podcasters like we we run on word of mouth, but movies like that was the original running on word of mouth. And, I feel bad that the, because like cam, I would expect you in a blockbuster.
01:12:42:35 – 01:12:55:41
Agent Palmer
Like, I would expect you to be the guy who would have me rent whatever I’m supposed to. After a five minute conversation, I.
01:12:55:46 – 01:13:22:04
Cam Smith
I tend to, I think, gauge people’s sort of. When you ask people their favorite movies, you can kind of start to go, okay, I can kind of see the things that jump out, maybe that might, yeah, point towards recommendations. But like, you know, my co-host Scott on Spy hards, we do a Patreon show called agents in the field where we tackle popular movies featuring, you know, spy actors that we know, like Matt Damon, Pierce Brosnan, whatever, people who are known as spy icons.
01:13:22:08 – 01:13:38:14
Cam Smith
And it’s been part of my joy is to, you know, Scott is not a, you know, a huge movie buff guy. And so that show has allowed me to introduce him to a lot of things that he would have never have watched, like To Catch a Thief, you know, the Hitchcock film or we watched, you know, dirty Harry and things like that.
01:13:38:14 – 01:13:50:35
Cam Smith
And it’s just been interesting to get his perspective on these kind of films that have existed out there in pop culture, or at least that he maybe he’s heard of and kind of going, oh, that’s what these are. I didn’t really ever think about what they actually were.
01:13:50:40 – 01:14:05:26
Agent Palmer
And that’s I think it’s important for everybody. I think that’s why you need a you in your life, because the algorithms only going to show you what you already like and. It’s possible you’ll like something outside of that sphere.
01:14:05:30 – 01:14:10:27
Cam Smith
Yeah. But I’m going to be very selective about who I say to watch like a Jean-Luc Godard film or something. Okay.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).