Episode 74 features Janice Webber, a long-time physiotherapist who is taking her business sense and her artistic abilities and looking to create an art academy.
We discuss how she arrived where she is, what she’s learned along the way, what it means to create more and stress less, and much much more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Physiotherapy
- Entrepreneurship
- Art
- Being an artist
- Careers that didn’t happen
- Being a dabbler
- Hobbies
- Sanity through creation
- The Starving Artist
- Breaking the mold
- Treading Water
- The Status Quo
- Change
- Global vs. Linear thinking
- Art as observation
- Becoming a teacher
- Starting the arts academy
- Finding your creative outlet
- Coming full circle
- Stress and recovery
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:28:45
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. Like a rolling Stone wonderfully orchestrates the work of journalist Ben Fong Torres. The brilliance of Letterman’s Netflix show needs no introduction. And while Zach’s podcast is great to get you into the kitchen, Kirsten Meyer’s blog should give you inspiration for what to do when you get there. This is The Palmer Files episode 74 with Janice Webber, a longtime physiotherapist who is taking her business sense and her artistic abilities and looking to create an art academy.
00:00:28:49 – 00:01:02:59
Agent Palmer
We discuss how she arrived, where she is, what she’s learned along the way, what it means to create more and stress less and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:03:04 – 00:01:10:08
Agent Palmer
She’s.
00:01:10:13 – 00:01:33:16
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 74th episode is Janice Webber, who wants us all to create more and stress less. She’s a physiotherapist by trade, but that isn’t who she is. She’s an entrepreneur and an artist of many mediums. We discuss her past, which feeds directly to her present and where she hopes her future lies.
00:01:33:24 – 00:02:01:02
Agent Palmer
And it’s amazing how relevant all of her experiences have been and how many full circle moments arise during our conversation. You’ll also hear how Janice is a dabbler, how there is sanity and creativity in creation, global versus linear thinking, becoming a teacher, helping others find their outlet, saving the oceans, the status quo, treading water, hobbies, all of that and a whole lot more is coming your way shortly.
00:02:01:02 – 00:02:25:52
Agent Palmer
But first, if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer and this show at The Palmer Files. You can find more information about Janice at Janice Web.com. That’s j a n icky web bbr.com. From there, you can also contact Janice or join her on Facebook, as well as see her work in painting, pottery, and photography.
00:02:25:57 – 00:02:43:17
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s create something together.
00:02:43:21 – 00:02:55:56
Agent Palmer
Janice, you are a physiotherapist and I guess entrepreneur, artist, teacher extraordinaire. All of those hats.
00:02:56:00 – 00:03:13:53
Janice Webber
Kind of. I’m a, have my own physio business, and I’m an artist, so I decided to see if I could make it an art business in 2019. So I’ve been educating myself a lot since then.
00:03:13:57 – 00:03:27:18
Agent Palmer
Now I want to talk about physio for a moment because I, I don’t know why I know physio equals physiotherapy.
00:03:27:23 – 00:03:28:51
Janice Webber
Because I’ve never same thing.
00:03:29:00 – 00:03:39:14
Agent Palmer
I’ve never had it. And I don’t know where that knowledge comes from, but I also don’t know what a physio therapist does.
00:03:39:19 – 00:04:16:55
Janice Webber
So where someone you come to if you’ve got a pain problem, limited mobility, might have respiratory problems. Could be recovering from a stroke or other neurological problems like Parkinson’s. Been in a car accident. Need help? Help. Recovering. So we’re, I call it movements specialists in that we can look at what’s going on. Figure out what you need and start treatment.
00:04:16:55 – 00:04:23:42
Janice Webber
And then you get. What my clients love me is to say is homework, which is your exercises to do afterwards.
00:04:23:47 – 00:04:27:06
Agent Palmer
And how long have you been doing that?
00:04:27:10 – 00:04:28:45
Janice Webber
36 years.
00:04:28:49 – 00:04:33:04
Agent Palmer
Is that like did you did you originally go to school for that?
00:04:33:08 – 00:04:38:52
Janice Webber
I went to university at Dalhousie, Rosie. And became a physiotherapist. Yeah.
00:04:38:57 – 00:04:45:04
Agent Palmer
Okay. No, no change of major. Like, you weren’t like, I might be a, I might be a, you know, something else.
00:04:45:18 – 00:04:53:27
Janice Webber
Well, when I started, I wasn’t going to be a physio. I was going to be an oceanographer because I love the ocean.
00:04:53:35 – 00:04:54:16
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:04:54:21 – 00:05:03:07
Janice Webber
That’s I, I got a interview for physio and then went into that. I’m still in ocean.
00:05:03:12 – 00:05:06:18
Agent Palmer
Do you? Does the ocean figure into the art?
00:05:06:23 – 00:05:08:02
Janice Webber
Yes, yes.
00:05:08:07 – 00:05:21:38
Agent Palmer
Okay, so you’re bringing the bacon home. You’re paying the bills with physio for 36 years? Yes. Is the art there? Does it come and go?
00:05:21:43 – 00:06:05:13
Janice Webber
Oh, it’s always been there. Okay. I just ended up being, a dabbler, as they call it. So you do it, and people think it’s your hobby? Yep. But it was how I kept sane. Physio is a very demanding job. Physically and mentally. When your hearing people’s problems and they’re looking for you to you for solutions, and then you need to come up with a plan and get their agreement, and then you work away at it.
00:06:05:18 – 00:06:14:12
Janice Webber
So yeah, it’s a demanding job. So the, the art was a way to deal with the stress of the job.
00:06:14:17 – 00:06:40:47
Agent Palmer
Okay. And, I’m trying to think, like I, you know, I’ve, I’ve had a blog and I’ve had a podcast, and these things have only been, you know, the blog’s 11. The podcast is not that old. I don’t know what I did before to keep saying, like, now this is my passion in my hobby and that kind of stuff.
00:06:40:47 – 00:07:10:35
Agent Palmer
And I, I run to exercise. But I don’t I’d like I honestly, I cannot think of something that, you know, before all this stuff, before these things I did to unwind. So I, I’m almost in awe that art has maintained as a, an outlet for you both for, you know, relieving stress and for creating something.
00:07:10:40 – 00:07:24:18
Janice Webber
Yeah. That’s been the funny. Ha ha. But my friends in that that are runners and you may find the same thing is you run and you get endorphins released. So when you get endorphins release, you feel better.
00:07:24:23 – 00:07:26:30
Agent Palmer
Is that is that what the art does for you?
00:07:26:35 – 00:07:32:32
Janice Webber
That keeps you hooked on running? That’s what kept me hooked in art, because it does the same thing.
00:07:32:41 – 00:07:52:38
Agent Palmer
All right. And so we’re I mean, I’m a blogger, podcaster, a writer, and I’ve done some editing. These are all plenty of titles, and people have a general idea of what they are, but, I don’t want to beat around the bush too much. Like, what are we talking about when we’re talking about art?
00:07:52:43 – 00:08:20:53
Janice Webber
So I started when I was a teenager. I used to go around with a little, tiny purse thing that went, across my chest. And in it, it was just big enough in the pouch to carry a pencil, a small pad of paper, and an eraser. So it’s very small. And I used to draw anything and everything I could see, but I never shared it with anybody.
00:08:20:58 – 00:08:59:12
Janice Webber
And the few times my family caught me drawing, they would go, oh, well, that looks pretty good. Or that’s supposed to be. And I would draw, you know, you’d see a book and there’d be an interesting face on it. So I draw the face or whatever. But, it wasn’t something that was picked up on and it wasn’t something encouraged beyond a hobby, because in those days, to make a living as an artist was thought to mean you were going to starve to death.
00:08:59:16 – 00:09:02:20
Agent Palmer
I, I don’t think that’s changed. I, I.
00:09:02:32 – 00:09:03:26
Janice Webber
Guess I.
00:09:03:26 – 00:09:13:16
Agent Palmer
I, I still think I mean, I think that for the most part, the, the myth of the starving artist has endured for.
00:09:13:18 – 00:09:15:53
Janice Webber
Yeah, it is a myth.
00:09:15:58 – 00:09:22:38
Agent Palmer
I mean, it’s a myth, but I, like most of the artists I know, have day jobs. Like.
00:09:22:43 – 00:09:23:13
Janice Webber
Right.
00:09:23:15 – 00:09:38:43
Agent Palmer
I don’t know anybody who’s, I guess. I mean, if you took away any of their day jobs, they would by definition probably be starving artists. But most of the starving artists I know aren’t starving because they have day jobs, right?
00:09:38:48 – 00:10:07:03
Janice Webber
Well, I’m working on the idea that you don’t have to be starving, and I’m part of a marketing group that she doesn’t believe we have to be starving artist. So we’re trying to break the mold of the starving artist. So I’m bringing what I’ve learned as a entrepreneur from physiotherapy, where I started not one, but two businesses from scratch.
00:10:07:07 – 00:10:17:21
Janice Webber
I’ve done one where I had basically no money behind it and knew how long it takes to build that up. The second time had some money, so I did it in a fraction of the time.
00:10:17:26 – 00:10:28:34
Agent Palmer
Now with help, when when you go to school for physiotherapy is, you know, creating your own business and being an entrepreneur in it like.
00:10:28:39 – 00:10:29:17
Janice Webber
No.
00:10:29:22 – 00:10:34:53
Agent Palmer
Oh, so, so that was, that was something you did that wasn’t necessarily the path I did.
00:10:34:53 – 00:11:03:00
Janice Webber
And I had to learn as I went. So the first time around, it took me 3 to 5 years to get it solid. So I have my analogy that, I’m in the ocean treading water, and I see something down below once in a while. This is my first year, okay? And once in a while something nudges my feet and it’s not a shark.
00:11:03:05 – 00:11:24:23
Janice Webber
And by the end of the second year, my feet are starting to get dry. By the end of the third year, I’m standing on a small little island, and I do mean small because it’s just a bit bigger than my feet. Okay? And then it just grows from there. So that was the first time.
00:11:24:36 – 00:11:31:12
Agent Palmer
Well, but before that first time, do you have any business sense at all or are you learning that as you go along too?
00:11:31:17 – 00:11:49:40
Janice Webber
Well, I came to understand that I wasn’t somebody who likes, being told what to do, when to do it, all that stuff. So I didn’t naturally fall into the typical employee mold.
00:11:49:45 – 00:11:59:17
Agent Palmer
You and I are kindred spirits there because I, I, I, I have a hard time playing the game. I think I can be an employee.
00:11:59:22 – 00:11:59:51
Janice Webber
Right.
00:11:59:52 – 00:12:07:37
Agent Palmer
But I, I have a hard time, maintaining the status quo just for status quo sake.
00:12:07:42 – 00:12:39:50
Janice Webber
Yeah, well, a friend said long time ago, you can either decide to be become part of the game and play their rules, or you don’t. And I recognize that I don’t like most of the other rules that are out there. I find them, controlling. They, try and curtail your creativity. So it naturally became something that I was going to find.
00:12:39:55 – 00:13:10:06
Janice Webber
And once I stepped into outside of hospital based physio into private practice, I went, oh, you can do this. And then it was you can take it a step further and have your own business. And I went, wow, okay. So I opened my first business at 28 and that to me seemed a bit older, but it was fine.
00:13:10:11 – 00:13:13:04
Janice Webber
I think I did that and I ran.
00:13:13:09 – 00:13:41:54
Agent Palmer
I think, I think one of the things and it’s not just talking to people on this podcast, I think it’s talking to people in general. Yeah. I think we all, we all get hung up on age in a way where we can find ourselves either ahead of the game or behind the game based on standards that don’t really exist, but we think they exist.
00:13:41:59 – 00:13:44:27
Agent Palmer
So 28 is not all like I, I’m.
00:13:44:32 – 00:13:58:32
Janice Webber
No, it’s not, but it was just going for me because I graduated physio at 21. So this is seven years in and I’m gone. It took me seven years to figure this out.
00:13:58:37 – 00:14:14:33
Agent Palmer
Okay. But right. I’m in the same boat with you for those first seven years. I graduate with a degree in communications, and for seven years after graduation, I’m in retail trying to figure out what to do with my life.
00:14:14:47 – 00:14:41:43
Janice Webber
Yeah, yeah, but that’s one of the fun things that I’ve come to understand later is that all the experiences I had in those seven years working in hospital and then going into private practice, all added to my knowledge base so that I would be okay and have all that experience to fall back on. So it worked.
00:14:41:48 – 00:14:44:48
Agent Palmer
And then, the second one.
00:14:44:53 – 00:15:12:52
Janice Webber
So the second one, I just duplicated what I did in the first one, but I had money. So instead of it taken me three years, it took 18 months to have my fully, and the island was way bigger by then, because of the money behind me. Yeah. So I was actually instead of, like, at year three, it was like I was at year 5 in 18 months.
00:15:12:56 – 00:15:16:20
Agent Palmer
And was the second one successful?
00:15:16:25 – 00:15:18:01
Janice Webber
Oh, yeah. It’s been fine.
00:15:18:06 – 00:15:41:45
Agent Palmer
So, I mean, I guess I would ask, what was the change of heart to now go into art professionally? I guess I’ll say that, you know, like, to put a label on it. Like what? What’s what? Moving the entrepreneurship away from physio and into art. What’s the what’s the change?
00:15:41:50 – 00:16:02:29
Janice Webber
Oh, well, this was my third attempt at leaving physio. Well, well, I got into physio because I had hurt my back when I was 15 and needed to figure out what had happened and what I could do about it. So when I finally got out of pain 19 years later, I didn’t know what I wanted to do.
00:16:02:34 – 00:16:25:08
Janice Webber
But there was no such thing as, career counseling to go and talk to. So you either went back to school to do some other training, and by the time I had finished my degree and physio, I didn’t want to go back to university again. So then I was okay. I stay in physio then till I figure it out.
00:16:25:19 – 00:16:30:25
Agent Palmer
Is it an extended program? Like can you get it in just four years or is it extended?
00:16:30:40 – 00:16:40:15
Janice Webber
When I did it, it was four years. Now it’s not that you have to have your undergrad in place and then you do a masters.
00:16:40:20 – 00:16:41:14
Agent Palmer
Wow.
00:16:41:19 – 00:16:48:28
Janice Webber
Okay, so I did a Bachelor of Science, but it was over a four year period.
00:16:48:33 – 00:16:50:26
Agent Palmer
So you saved two years.
00:16:50:31 – 00:17:15:28
Janice Webber
Yeah. Well, yeah. And then I just kept doing courses and studying and all that kind of stuff because I’m one of these global thinkers. So I go a, B, c, z, yeah, pattern and then have to go find the information of what I’ve missed. Right. So I go off on this course or another course or whatever to help fill in the picture.
00:17:15:33 – 00:17:17:36
Janice Webber
So I did that for years.
00:17:17:40 – 00:17:23:08
Agent Palmer
All right. So now we fast forward to 2019. Well I guess it wouldn’t be 2019 right.
00:17:23:08 – 00:17:35:27
Janice Webber
Like that was actually January of 2006 was my next time I was going to leave physio. Okay. But again, I didn’t know what I wanted to do now. So real.
00:17:35:27 – 00:17:36:27
Agent Palmer
Quick. So 20.
00:17:36:35 – 00:17:37:04
Janice Webber
18.
00:17:37:09 – 00:18:03:11
Agent Palmer
So what’s the what are the turning points? I know you didn’t actually end up leaving, but was there something that happened in like 2006 where you go, all right, I want to get out. Or is it just like I’m not happy or like, like, what is it in 2006 that you’re like, I need to get out because I, you know, my first professional gig I got let go because of a change in leadership.
00:18:03:16 – 00:18:22:58
Agent Palmer
I’ll be honest, I was comfortable. I probably just would have stayed there. For better or worse. I mean, like, you know, that’s a different ball game, but, like, I didn’t have that. Oh, I got to get out of here moment. So I’m curious as to, like, you tried to get out a couple times. Was it just like, I want to do something else?
00:18:23:02 – 00:18:33:57
Janice Webber
Yeah, but I wasn’t sure what I had. Rediscovered drawing and then painting because I had only done, photography before then.
00:18:34:09 – 00:18:34:33
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:18:34:42 – 00:19:13:13
Janice Webber
So from, like, high school into university, and up until 2003, I was only doing photography and I had the opportunity to take a drawing and painting class when I was living in the UK and went, oh my God, I found it again and I’m not letting it go this time. So it I was traveling with physio, as a way to see the world, which was one of the other reasons I had gotten into physio.
00:19:13:18 – 00:19:40:56
Janice Webber
And traveled and did art, painting and drawing and all that stuff while I was away. So when I came home to Canada again in 2000 and, well, Christmas 2005, I needed to decide what I was going to do for work. But again, going back to school was like, it’s really not what I want to do. Yes. So what do you do?
00:19:40:59 – 00:20:11:18
Janice Webber
Well, you open a physio practice again and keep doing art on the side. So then I discovered pottery and it just added another dimension to what I do. And you know, I would sell the odd piece here and there in some of the group art shows. I was in, but it wasn’t satisfactory and I wanted to have a larger audience and,
00:20:11:23 – 00:20:12:07
Janice Webber
Yeah.
00:20:12:11 – 00:20:44:34
Agent Palmer
What what what is it about creation that you enjoy so much? Because, you know, you start with drawing and then you move to painting and then pottery and all of them are forms of creation, really. And whether you’re, you know, mimicking the modern world or just creating something out of thin air, like you’re creating something and they’re very I won’t say very, but they feel vastly different from each other.
00:20:44:39 – 00:21:04:28
Agent Palmer
So is it just any point of contact with, you know, your hands to the page or the clay is good and you’re comfortable, and if I gave you another medium, you’d probably fall in love with that. Or is it just those that are just special somehow?
00:21:04:33 – 00:21:34:45
Janice Webber
No. The photography is a way to, So I did a course years ago called the, Art of photography with a. It was he was a musician and, he did this on the side because he went off and he would take photographs. So you got to start using your artistic all eye. And that’s what made me fall in love with photography.
00:21:34:54 – 00:22:02:52
Janice Webber
Okay. Then it was even in physio, I ended up bringing the art into physio because again, as a global thinker, I would look at what was going on and go, oh, there it is, where a lot of my, physio colleagues are linear and there’s no problem with being one way or another. Yeah, they go from A to B to B to C all the way up.
00:22:02:52 – 00:22:35:13
Janice Webber
Right? Yeah. I would have gone a b c z and they go how did you get there? And I’d go, well you didn’t see the pattern and they wouldn’t see the pattern. So for me it’s all about patterns. So that fits more with art because art when you’re when I’m doing art, even when I’m doing pottery, if I’m carving, there will be a pattern that emerges.
00:22:35:18 – 00:23:03:35
Janice Webber
So, often sculptors will talk about the fact that they look at the marble and the object is there, and they have to get it out, right. Yeah. So they see a pattern in it is all I can come up with with the way I view things. So I carved a pattern. So when I’m painting I, I’ve been an observer.
00:23:03:35 – 00:23:13:27
Janice Webber
I’ve seen all kinds of stuff. And then you get into your quiet space and you paint, and there it is.
00:23:13:32 – 00:23:42:30
Agent Palmer
Do you have trouble explaining the, the in between? Like you go from A to B to C to Z and you just go. Sometimes you just go, I saw it and you just can’t like because I, I find that sometimes, you know, I will arrive at an answer and I can’t always explain how I got to that answer.
00:23:42:35 – 00:24:16:21
Agent Palmer
Like it’s just like, oh no, I, I saw it and I thought that that’s where it’s going. Why? That’s where I saw it going. Like, I sometimes I can, I think, I don’t know if I categorize myself as a global thinker. I think that sometimes I have foresight, and I can see big picture things and sometimes small details, but sometimes the big picture stuff, I just see it or I just know it, or like I can’t always give the why.
00:24:16:21 – 00:24:35:12
Agent Palmer
It reminds me like, unfortunately, it takes me immediately back to like middle and high school where it was like, oh, you know, what’s the answer to the problem? It’s like, oh, it’s 46. Like, why? I, is it wrong? Like, I thought the answer was 46. No, the answer is 46. You have to show your work, like know why.
00:24:35:12 – 00:24:38:34
Agent Palmer
And sometimes I have trouble and it.
00:24:38:39 – 00:25:05:17
Janice Webber
Yeah, but that’s the difference between a linear and a global thinker like linear thinker. Want you to put down all the steps that you took to prove that you actually got to that answer, and a global goes 1 to 310. And they’re going how did you get ten? And I’m going, well isn’t it obvious.
00:25:05:21 – 00:25:05:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:25:05:50 – 00:25:35:40
Janice Webber
That’s and they’re like no how did you get there? And you’re like, well you go, what if you went from here to there to there to there? And then you didn’t see this. And they go, no, I didn’t see a circle. So I don’t know if it’s the difference with doing paint by numbers or when you follow A to B, B to C and it becomes an elephant.
00:25:35:45 – 00:25:36:21
Janice Webber
Right.
00:25:36:26 – 00:25:38:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Or sometimes you just see the elephant.
00:25:38:28 – 00:25:56:19
Janice Webber
So sometimes you just see the elephant and you’re going, oh well there’s an ear and they’re going, how did you see that? And I’m going, you didn’t see the shape. They don’t see the shape. They just see the ABCd. So it’s just how our brains are different, that’s all.
00:25:56:24 – 00:26:21:02
Agent Palmer
So, before we get into the, the, the art entrepreneurship, of a few years ago, I want to ask you about the different mediums that you’ve all mentioned. Do you have a favorite or is it based on mood? You know, like I’m feeling I want to get involved in some clay, or I want to grab my camera, or I want to grab a pencil or a paintbrush.
00:26:21:13 – 00:26:24:13
Agent Palmer
Or do you have a favorite or a go to?
00:26:24:18 – 00:26:51:14
Janice Webber
I actually don’t, it’s more convenience, but I love all the mediums I do. I don’t always do them all the time just because of time constraints or whatever. Yeah, there similar in they’re still creative, but there’s so different in what you can create out of them. Yeah, that they just keep me intrigued.
00:26:51:25 – 00:26:54:17
Agent Palmer
So never, never a boring day for Janice.
00:26:54:21 – 00:27:02:56
Janice Webber
No, no. And I’m looking forward to the day that I only do art.
00:27:03:01 – 00:27:26:49
Agent Palmer
I have to tell you that I have been lucky enough in the jobs that I have had, and I’ve been both unemployed and employed on and off over the last little bit. But for the longest time, I had a job that changed every day, and most of the jobs I’ve held in between have all kind of changed all the time.
00:27:26:54 – 00:27:42:08
Agent Palmer
And I, I feel like I connect with you on that. I don’t know if I could do the whole automaton thing, you know, the I what do you what do you do at work today? Oh, the same thing I did yesterday.
00:27:42:13 – 00:27:55:08
Janice Webber
Yeah. The one thing for physio that was the saving grace when it was more the automatic type, is that the people you interact with were different all the time.
00:27:55:15 – 00:27:56:23
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:27:56:27 – 00:28:02:33
Janice Webber
So I can do the work at the hospital because the people are so different.
00:28:02:38 – 00:28:07:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah, there’s at least one variable changing and it’s a it’s a pretty important variable.
00:28:07:56 – 00:28:14:11
Janice Webber
Well there has to be something change or I need to create change.
00:28:14:15 – 00:28:20:28
Agent Palmer
Do you think that’s part of the, I don’t know, impetus behind trying to get out of physio?
00:28:20:33 – 00:28:54:04
Janice Webber
Well, that’s the impetus that gets you into being an entrepreneur because you. Well, this is from my perspective for sure. For me. I if I’m going to do it, I want to do it. Well, okay. I don’t want to just do it because I’m collecting a paycheck. I want to make a difference. And if I’m in the driver’s seat, I can determine how much change, how much I do towards that.
00:28:54:09 – 00:29:04:24
Janice Webber
Whereas if I’m the employee, there’s always somebody else saying, no, you might want that, but that’s not how it’s going to be here.
00:29:04:29 – 00:29:49:45
Agent Palmer
So how do you how do you reconcile wanting to help people or to affect change and making money? Because and this is a very personal experience. But like in my experience, most of the time I can affect the most change is usually for the least amount or no money. And so as an entrepreneur, personally, I’ve kind of fallen into I need to find a money guy like I could, I can put the business plan together, but I need somebody who’s going to be like diligent and like, okay, we’re going to charge for that, and I’m going to go after the money versus me who’s like, I helped that person.
00:29:49:50 – 00:29:51:45
Agent Palmer
That’s him. That done.
00:29:51:54 – 00:30:26:42
Janice Webber
Right. But you again, and this is one of the things I learned with exploring entrepreneurship. And what that all means is you need to know your personality type. Yeah. So the people that make apps as entrepreneurs are, people who have drive, they’re ambitious. They, are prepared to do whatever they need to do to make it work, but they also know they have to constantly look at it to see if it’s still viable.
00:30:26:47 – 00:30:33:27
Janice Webber
And if it’s not, you make a change or you retire or you sell it or whatever.
00:30:33:32 – 00:30:38:22
Agent Palmer
You’ve been in the physio game for 37 years, I guess.
00:30:38:27 – 00:30:41:03
Janice Webber
Yeah. I start my 37th year in June. Yeah.
00:30:41:12 – 00:30:50:21
Agent Palmer
So the the obvious question to me would be why not just retire and do the art thing as retirement?
00:30:50:26 – 00:31:38:27
Janice Webber
Oh, and I’ve got big plans what I want to do with the art. So I want to part of what I’m doing is I love the ocean. I care about, all the aquatic creatures. I’m in love with whales, dolphins, turtles, and I’m doing art and connecting with different, charities. So when I do artwork that has a whale, dolphin, or turtles in it right now, I donate part of those proceeds to those groups that then help make sure that the oceans stay alive, because if our oceans die, we’re screwed.
00:31:38:32 – 00:31:40:37
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, I mean, I’m.
00:31:40:41 – 00:31:49:36
Janice Webber
So this is where I laugh because that’s what my drive was when I was looking to be an oceanographer years and years ago.
00:31:49:41 – 00:31:51:43
Agent Palmer
She’s finally come full circle.
00:31:51:58 – 00:32:14:41
Janice Webber
So I’ve come full circle. And then I further laugh because I it’s some of those, things with the guidance counselors in high school and what they said my career should be was an art teacher, which I of course, I laughed at at the time, but now I am at the age I am, and I’m looking to start an art academy.
00:32:14:46 – 00:32:38:34
Agent Palmer
Well, it would beg the question though, that as a physio, I mean, you’re one on one a lot of the time, but you’re still I mean, you’re, you’re basically a teacher because you’re teaching me what I have to do to put my body back together. In essence, I mean, I’m, I’m distilling it quite a bit, but.
00:32:38:39 – 00:33:16:24
Janice Webber
Well, I’ve been a teacher of, aquatics, so I was a swimming instructor and lifeguard. Then I did adapted aquatics and was a, adapted aquatic instructor before I got into physio. So I was already teaching. Okay. Then in physio, I got to teach clients one on one in groups, teach students. So I had to learn all the, learning styles and all that kind of stuff so that I could present stuff in a way that the people could understand.
00:33:16:29 – 00:33:38:27
Janice Webber
Then I got into being a Tai Chi instructor, and now I’m going to put in my art academy what I know about stress, what I know about tai chi, and what I know about art together. So my whole focus for the art Academy is stress less, create more.
00:33:38:32 – 00:34:14:45
Agent Palmer
I, I will tell you, as I don’t consider myself an artist. Writer. Yes. Podcaster? Yes. Storyteller. Maybe. I haven’t written poetry and I have a friend whose book I’m editing, a book of poetry I’m editing who always tells me that I should write poetry again. He’s probably the only person that remembers I’ve ever written poetry, and probably the only person in the world who remembers any of my old poems.
00:34:14:50 – 00:34:50:08
Agent Palmer
But I don’t consider myself an artist. But I do consider myself a creator. And in that regard, I will tell you that creation is like I am. I immediately have the whole like, John Hammond from the Jurassic Park movie, like creation is an act of sheer will, but to me, creation is a stress relief. Like I, I don’t even have to hit publish on these episodes or on the blog posts or or this or that.
00:34:50:13 – 00:34:53:19
Agent Palmer
I just need to get it out and I feel better.
00:34:53:24 – 00:35:12:48
Janice Webber
Yeah, it’s because you found writing is your creative outlet. Yeah. So that’s what the whole, premise of the Art Academy is. So it isn’t art as painting, drawing. It’s art in its entirety.
00:35:12:53 – 00:35:14:25
Agent Palmer
As find your outlet.
00:35:14:30 – 00:35:38:00
Janice Webber
So we’re going to help you find your voice, whatever your voice is. So I’ll be working with painters and potters and photographers. It could be writers whatever I don’t oh, I haven’t put a defined definition of it because that’s too stifling.
00:35:38:07 – 00:35:58:37
Agent Palmer
Well, you want to keep it as broad as possible so that you can be as inclusive as possible because you know, it. I don’t I wouldn’t agree with it. Okay. I want to preface it by saying I wouldn’t agree with it, but I could see the argument for telling me I’m an artist, but I could see the argument.
00:35:58:42 – 00:36:03:21
Agent Palmer
I don’t. I don’t agree with the argument, but I can see it. So I understand that.
00:36:03:23 – 00:36:19:43
Janice Webber
Totally fine, because I look at writers and I go, well, if you want to call yourself a writer, that’s okay. But a writer is a creative outlet. Yes, you’re still an artist, so you’re creating something.
00:36:19:48 – 00:36:20:52
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:36:20:56 – 00:36:34:14
Janice Webber
And that’s what painters do. That’s what potters do. That’s what photographers do. We all create things, we alter it, change it, put it down on paper and there it is.
00:36:34:18 – 00:36:53:51
Agent Palmer
So where does the seed for an art academy, I don’t know, start for you. Like is it just recently or like, is it something that maybe you’ve thought of and laughed at long ago? Or like it’s just always kind of been germinating in the back of your mind?
00:36:53:56 – 00:37:16:18
Janice Webber
Oh no. I laughed at the whole idea when I was in high school. Yeah. But I think they planted a seed, and that’s what I’ve said my whole physio career. What I do is I plant seeds and I have no idea when they’re going to grow. So if a client likes what I have to say, they’ll make an appointment.
00:37:16:29 – 00:37:33:27
Janice Webber
If they don’t, they could wait a couple of years. So I’ve had clients who when I wish and came and saw you three years ago for this problem, and I said, well, you weren’t ready. And they just look at me like, I’m like, well, you weren’t ready.
00:37:33:32 – 00:37:34:38
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, I.
00:37:34:45 – 00:37:41:32
Janice Webber
Know if you’re not ready, what’s the point in trying it? Because you’re not going to be in sync with it, right?
00:37:41:37 – 00:38:05:14
Agent Palmer
I think that that’s true. I this podcast is a couple of years old. I’ve been in podcasting a heck of a lot longer, and in the early days, I got a lot of flack for like, well, how come you don’t start your own show? Like, how come you’re not doing it? I was like, I’m not, I’m not ready.
00:38:05:18 – 00:38:29:48
Agent Palmer
And I can say the thing that everybody says, which is like, well, once I started it, I can look back and go like, maybe I should have started this sooner, but hindsight’s always a winner. And so in the moment, if you’re not ready, you’re not ready. So I, I agree with you. I think like when it’s time, it’s time.
00:38:29:52 – 00:38:40:25
Janice Webber
Well, you have to take that pressure off your shoulders because it interferes with the creative process. It’s a catch 22 there.
00:38:40:27 – 00:39:08:51
Agent Palmer
Well I think the other and I say this because I, I think it bears repeating right in, in the first episode of this podcast. My buddy Bill Sweeney was on to talk about a book, but it was really about should you stay or should you go? And Bill always likes to tell the story, that when he first created the original incarnation of the Wicked Theory podcast, he bought the microphone.
00:39:08:55 – 00:39:39:49
Agent Palmer
He bought the mixer? Well, he bought the microphones and the mixer, and then he talked to people about creating the show, and that was enough to satisfy him. So he didn’t actually have to start the show. And it wasn’t until he actually broke down and started the show that he was like, oh, I like this because, you know, talking about a thing releases the same endorphins as doing the thing some of the time.
00:39:39:49 – 00:39:57:52
Agent Palmer
Not for everything, but often enough. When we come to creative passions and we get the thinking done and we say, you know, hey, I’m going to do this thing, and this is what I’m thinking. If you talk about it enough, you don’t have to do it because you’re comfortable enough and you’re getting that same rush from talking about it.
00:39:57:57 – 00:40:14:59
Agent Palmer
And look, Bill’s not the only one. I think that some of us, because I’ve done this before to where I’m like, oh, I’m going to do this thing now. I’m going to do this thing. No, I’m going to do this. And it’s just on a to do list for a year before you actually break down and break ground on it or what have you.
00:40:15:11 – 00:40:47:06
Janice Webber
But you also have to do your and I hate this term, but your due diligence. So you have to gather information, ponder it out, look at what you possibly want to do, and then you jump in the middle of the ocean and start treading water. So eventually you have to either do the impetus of jump in. Yeah, or nothing more happens.
00:40:47:06 – 00:40:47:43
Janice Webber
Do it.
00:40:47:48 – 00:41:10:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And then, you know, the I mean, I think the older I get, I don’t want to make this an age thing, but I think that the older I get, the more I’m likely to just jump in. Because what’s the worst that could happen? I drown. Oh no. Like I’ve never failed at anything before in my life.
00:41:10:36 – 00:41:12:20
Agent Palmer
No, I’ve failed plenty of times.
00:41:12:26 – 00:41:39:09
Janice Webber
Yeah, that’s also what happens with experience. Yeah. So you got experience behind you. When you’re younger, you jump in because you don’t know you need to do some research. Then you get old enough that you go, okay, I don’t have enough research. And then you’re drowning in the research. And then you finally go, I need to go.
00:41:39:13 – 00:41:39:45
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:41:39:49 – 00:42:07:18
Janice Webber
So I almost started to drown in the research, ways to get my art out to more people for the art sales of what I’m trying to do. But I got the impetus in January, and then I jumped in. Now, when I jumped in, it was pretty messy. I look back on some of the videos and go, oh wow, my hands.
00:42:07:18 – 00:42:18:51
Janice Webber
Okay, well, anyway, it’s a learning experience and people are realizing I’m learning as I go because I’m just making sure they know I’m in a learning curve. I want to get better over time.
00:42:19:00 – 00:42:41:32
Agent Palmer
I think that’s true of all. I want to say art, but I think anything we’ve created, even if it’s not art, even if you’re just writing a book report, okay, like everybody’s had to write a book report from about what, fifth grade through, you know, high school graduation and then maybe college, etc..
00:42:41:37 – 00:42:42:21
Janice Webber
Yeah.
00:42:42:26 – 00:43:04:31
Agent Palmer
Go back, you know, if you have access to your sixth grade book, report it. We’re not going to call it art. But guess what? You could probably do better now. And the same is true for like I, I my first podcast episode of this show, I love Bill. I think we had a great conversation. The editing could probably be titled like, you know what I mean?
00:43:04:31 – 00:43:10:02
Agent Palmer
Like there’s oh, it’s always you’re never going to start off at 100.
00:43:10:07 – 00:43:36:39
Janice Webber
Oh no no no no no no. And anybody who thinks they’re going to start a business and be at 100 really quickly, like, no, that’s not how it goes. Yeah. It goes all over the place like you think you’re going from A to Z, and you end up off on a tangent that took you over to, 45.
00:43:36:39 – 00:43:58:46
Janice Webber
Yep. And then you’re back on the path. It’s A to Z, and then you’re over here to be two and you’re going, what am I doing over here? I’m supposed to be over there. All right, what am I yeah. Okay, back we go, and then we’re on the path again. Yeah. So you end up all over the place, and that’s the process.
00:43:58:51 – 00:44:36:39
Agent Palmer
Now I am going to try I, I’m going to ask a very selfish question in, in the way I’m asking it. And I understand it’s a weighted question, but when it comes to the art academy, what are you hoping to get from your interactions with students? Because I can only guess that your students and the people you interact with as it grows will have an impact on you, and they will also help bounce you.
00:44:36:42 – 00:45:03:39
Agent Palmer
Janice. Not not the Academy, but they will personally bounce you from A to 1 to 7 to Z, right? Like I think that teachers that are open and you sound like an open teacher, can get can be also moved by their students. So I think I want to ask selfishly, are you just a raft on the river and it will take you where you want to go?
00:45:03:39 – 00:45:06:15
Agent Palmer
Or do you have a paddle and you’re going to try and get somewhere?
00:45:06:15 – 00:45:41:32
Janice Webber
So I have a paddle and I have a plan. Okay. I’ve learned being a physio that I learn as much from my clients as they learn from me. So if there’s a two way street of learning, yeah. So it’s going to be the same thing for the art academy I just recognized through Covid and this has been the impetus is I have so many people that I know that are stressed out beyond with everything that’s happened in the last almost two and a half years.
00:45:41:37 – 00:46:11:55
Janice Webber
Yeah. And some of them are struggling. They’re having trouble. They’re having health challenges. We’ve seen some of the information out there that’s talking about how long it took people to recover from being in Sirs now serves when it was here, was here for both nine months. Yeah. But it was here in Ontario. They were treating people for post-traumatic stress stuff and depression.
00:46:11:55 – 00:46:18:31
Janice Webber
Anxiety and other stress related stuff for a year and a half afterwards.
00:46:18:36 – 00:46:20:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And this has been two and a half years.
00:46:20:35 – 00:46:40:02
Janice Webber
So two and a half years. So guess what? We’re going to be somewhere around six, seven, eight years just recovering from that. Then we’ve got thrown into all the stuff that’s going on with the potential war with Russia.
00:46:40:07 – 00:46:43:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I, I think you’re probably on the right track.
00:46:43:36 – 00:46:53:40
Janice Webber
So there’s a lot of people that are very stressed out about the whole situation in the world. And like, all kinds of stuff.
00:46:53:47 – 00:47:26:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think you’re right. I think I. In my time unemployed in the last few years, I talked to a lot of people who are overworked and fairly underappreciated. And they were, I guess, I guess their bosses were in the. I were under the idea that, well, you’re lucky to be employed and look, I think that a lot of bosses probably have more compassion than that.
00:47:26:20 – 00:47:55:43
Agent Palmer
But from the top down, I think compassion gets lost often. And so I see a lot of people that if you just removed all of the other things, they would still be stressed out, like the the world is not helping. But I think even when you remove the world, there’s a lot of people that are, that could use an outlet of any kind.
00:47:55:48 – 00:48:44:23
Janice Webber
Yeah. So that’s part of what was the impetus for putting this, together. Plus, I reckon Ives, through the whole situation with Covid, with my when my stress level goes up higher, I create a lot less. So it impacts on my ability to produce art of any sort. So if I know what to do to reduce my stress, and I’m teaching people that all the time as a physio, and I know how much it’s impacted me as an artist, I went, well, maybe it’s time to just bring these three things together.
00:48:44:28 – 00:49:14:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think that it’s one of those weird scenarios and I think most artists have a general idea, like a sense of it, where it’s like, I’m just I need to be creating, but I don’t feel like creating. And we have these. I guess you would call them internal struggles. I don’t think they’re actually that true. I don’t think they’re struggles because I don’t think they’re ever fair fights.
00:49:14:55 – 00:49:51:53
Agent Palmer
I think when you’re unmotivated or depressed, it’s really hard. Like you need a mate. You need a major internal victory to go from uninspired and depressed to creating. And I think we all have those wins on occasion where it’s like, oh, I have an idea now. And it’s that one idea, that inspiration, that muse, that moment that pushes you over the top and gets you past the lack of motivation and the depression to create something.
00:49:51:58 – 00:50:07:31
Agent Palmer
But it’s never a fair fight. We need that inspiration and that motivation in order to make it a fair fight, at least for me. Like I understand that if I don’t have that great opening line, I’m probably not writing that post today. I’m just not feeling it.
00:50:07:36 – 00:50:43:29
Janice Webber
Yeah, but what I was experiencing and when I talked to other people, they were experiencing, when you get into that creative space, it’s what happens when you’re quiet and calm and then it can happen. So if you’re stressed or over anxious or whatever, yeah, you can’t calm down enough. So that’s what these dress, techniques are for. That’s what the tie chiefs for.
00:50:43:29 – 00:51:27:22
Janice Webber
Some people use yoga. I love tai chi. Do that. That’s why people go out and run. That’s why people do long distance swimming. Because you get in that zone, and the zone is what they’re talking about is that quiet space where everything’s fine and random thoughts can come in, creative ideas come in, and all of a sudden you’re going, oh, I need to paint that, or I need to write that down, or I need to grab my camera or whatever it is.
00:51:27:27 – 00:51:55:27
Agent Palmer
That things came full circle for Janus as a result of seeds planted long ago. Some that she didn’t even realize were planted in the first place is of note that they finally germinated and grew. Probably takes the metaphor a bit too far. The point is, it’s not necessarily that you even realize the seeds were sown. We don’t all have the recall or memory to know exactly where things come from, and I applaud Janice for wanting more and going after it.
00:51:55:32 – 00:52:25:03
Agent Palmer
During the course of this podcast, I have said that I wanted to be an aerospace engineer, a baseball player, paleontologist, rock star, and many other things. Aerospace engineer came from my wonder of space travel. I don’t know where that came from. Baseball player came from my love of the game passed down from my father and family. Paleontologist pre-dates my having watched Jurassic Park, so perhaps it’s just a general interest in dinosaurs that many young children share, and rock star?
00:52:25:08 – 00:52:48:40
Agent Palmer
Well, if you’ve ever picked up an instrument like guitar, bass, or drums during your teenage years, you know where that seed gets sown. But I’m none of those things. And I’m still figuring out what I want to be. Will it be something that has been planted? I don’t know that I’ll recall. And as you’ve heard me say before, and as you’ve heard from many previous guests, where they arrived is where they arrived.
00:52:48:51 – 00:53:10:08
Agent Palmer
But it was as much happenstance or luck or generally life happening that brought them to their current destination. We enjoy the full circle talk, because it means that we have an idea of where we will end up. We just haven’t uncovered the clue yet. But it’s not always as such. We’ve seen too many movies and watch too much TV.
00:53:10:13 – 00:53:30:31
Agent Palmer
Too many things get set up and come to fruition. That’s not how it always works. Sometimes it does, and maybe you end up where you intended, but sometimes you end up where you are and you have no idea how you got there. And that’s fine too. The important thing is that you are happy and content with where you end up.
00:53:30:35 – 00:53:51:58
Agent Palmer
So let me ask you this. Are you are you content? Are you happy? Are you good with it? And if not, what are you doing to change that? Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 74. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business, the Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
00:53:51:59 – 00:54:17:16
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer and this show at The Palmer Files. You can find more information about Janice, her passion, and her art academy at Janice Webber.com. That’s. And I see Webber.com from there. You can also contact Janice or join her on Facebook, as well as actually see her work in painting, pottery and photography.
00:54:17:21 – 00:54:30:36
Agent Palmer
Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:54:30:41 – 00:54:35:59
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You.
00:54:36:04 – 00:54:50:21
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You need.
00:54:50:26 – 00:55:07:42
Unknown
To.
00:55:07:47 – 00:55:12:34
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Be.
00:55:12:38 – 00:55:15:26
Agent Palmer
All right. Janice, do you have one final question for me?
00:55:15:31 – 00:55:35:27
Janice Webber
So you said that you had oscillated on starting your blog and podcast, and you have tried a bunch of different platforms. What was your impetus to get started on this? And do you have a favorite?
00:55:35:32 – 00:56:11:59
Agent Palmer
The blog was just a writing exercise. Really. It that’s what it started out as, and it turned into something much more. The podcast, I’d seen other people do it, and I was very comfortable helping other people behind the scenes and guesting on other people’s shows. I think they’re both very interesting. Before I started the podcast, I did, leaning into the spy theme for the blog.
00:56:12:04 – 00:56:43:45
Agent Palmer
I was doing interrogations, which were long form conversational slash question and answer type blog posts with the guest, and I haven’t done one for a very long time because I have this, you know, why do I need to send you 15 questions and then have you and send me answers, and then me send follow ups and then kind of cobble it together in a conversation when I can just invite you on to, you know, this medium.
00:56:43:50 – 00:57:17:28
Agent Palmer
And I think that this medium is a bit more personal, but I’m still in love with the writing. I’m actually in love with both processes, but I think that whether it’s a book review or just what’s on my shelf or what I’m thinking about or a list, I enjoy the process of creating something out of nothing. And I think that the same is true in this medium.
00:57:17:28 – 00:57:32:34
Agent Palmer
When we’re talking about, like the podcast, I think they’re both unique. I love them equally. I mean, I, I guess what the answer to the question is, I can’t see my life without either TV.
00:57:32:36 – 00:57:40:55
Janice Webber
That’s where we’re similar. I can’t vision a life without art in it.
00:57:40:59 – 00:58:15:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And and I, I feel like, well, I don’t consider myself an artist. Unless I get back into the more of the creative writing thing. I guess I’d be more of a. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say a narrative storyteller. Really. And, you know, medium, medium length text and long form audio storytelling is basically where I’m at right now.
00:58:15:18 – 00:58:58:32
Agent Palmer
But I think that I connect with artists on a level because in general, I find that creatives period have to be in love with the entire process in order to complete anything, right? So I have to, if I if it’s as an example, if it’s a book review, I have to be in love with the idea of reading the book, taking the notes, digesting that information, and then repurposing it to tell you why you should read it or what you might find a value within that book.
00:58:58:37 – 00:59:22:04
Agent Palmer
And then I have to edit that, and then I have to post it. And part of posting most of my book reviews is physically taking pictures of the book that I just read, and I have to be in love with every part of that process, because the blog post at the end has pictures and text, right? Like in order to get it all done, I need to be in love with every piece of the process.
00:59:22:08 – 00:59:52:59
Agent Palmer
For this podcast, I have to be willing to reach out to a guest. I have to be willing to take rejection. I have to be willing to schedule, and I have to be flexible when things go wrong. And then I have to know on the technical side how to record everything, how to edit everything. When I go back and I take notes for the show notes and for, you know, scripting my intros and outros and mixing it all together, I have to be in love with every part of the process.
00:59:52:59 – 01:00:05:33
Agent Palmer
Otherwise it doesn’t get published. And I think artists are all like that. I don’t know one artist that loves framing.
01:00:05:38 – 01:00:07:11
Janice Webber
Oh yes, yes.
01:00:07:22 – 01:00:09:24
Agent Palmer
Except that’s part of.
01:00:09:24 – 01:00:16:04
Janice Webber
It. And they do it active on framing.
01:00:16:09 – 01:00:18:33
Agent Palmer
I just, you know, people, they have to do it.
01:00:18:38 – 01:00:56:26
Janice Webber
You you know, I know I love being able to frame my artwork, okay I do I choose the frames and the maths. When I’m doing watercolors or oils, I do just the frames and my frames all make the art look better. So I’m coming from a different perspective. When I was doing my framing company with someone else who came from the idea that, framing should just be in the background so it doesn’t compete with the artwork.
01:00:56:31 – 01:01:00:50
Janice Webber
My perspective is the framing needs to be part of the artwork.
01:01:00:55 – 01:01:30:41
Agent Palmer
See on that. You and I agree, I what I meant was most people like most of the artists I know, don’t enjoy the process of it. But I will tell you, I think you are 100% right because even the animation cells that I’ve collected, when I was getting them professionally framed, I would and I used to know a really good framer who would take the time to get a matte with an internal color or however they, I don’t know.
01:01:30:43 – 01:01:33:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I don’t know the technical. So all I know is like.
01:01:33:35 – 01:01:37:16
Janice Webber
Come in all different colors. So getting the right color right.
01:01:37:16 – 01:01:57:24
Agent Palmer
All it. Yeah. All I know is that the I would get options of like here’s the animation cel which you know most animation. So I’m looking at them right. Like most animation cells that I’ve got have I have a few colors but they’re not like full color. It’s not like the entire spectrum. It’s like on that particular cell there’s like three colors.
01:01:57:28 – 01:02:27:22
Agent Palmer
And you know, the framer would be like, here. I think these are the options you’re looking at. And it always an accent to make the entire framed piece larger than just the sum of the parts that make up it. And yeah, yeah, I, I think that that’s. Matte it’s a, it’s probably a lost art, which is why I don’t have a framer right now anymore.
01:02:27:27 – 01:02:50:44
Janice Webber
Well, it again, it is another way to produce art. So when you’ve got somebody who’s got the eye, the artistic eye, they get it. If they don’t, they put it together and it’s flat.
01:02:50:49 – 01:02:51:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).