Agent Palmer

Episode 72 features Coach Chris Clement, an industrial engineer by profession and football coach by passion.

We discuss his football coaching journey, mainly Canadian football, his path to industrial engineering, how the two things overlap, plus instant replay, clock management, keeping things in line, practice, yes “we talkin’ practice,” and much much more.

Throughout the conversation, we discuss:

• Being an industrial engineer
• Coaching Canadian Football
• Passions that don’t keep the lights on
• Keeping things in line
• Video games impact on the field
• Clock Management
• Instant Replay
• Coaching rugby
• 15s vs. 7s
• High School football Canada vs. U.S.
• Engineering and Football
• Coaching was not the goal at one point
• What he wanted to be
• Being a goalie/keeper
• And much more

Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode

passesandpatterns.blogspot.com

Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.

–End Show Notes Transmission–

–Begin Transcription–

00:00:00:01 – 00:00:22:25
Agent Palmer
Previously on agent Palmer dot com Straken is excellent fantasy history repeating itself. Geek space exploring the shelf right behind me. And the more I talk to people with professions and passions that don’t often line up, the more I think that’s the way to go. This is The Palmer Files, episode 72 with coach Chris Clement and industrial engineer by profession and football coach by passion.

00:00:22:39 – 00:01:12:14
Agent Palmer
We discuss his football coaching journey, mainly Canadian football, his path to industrial engineering. How the two things overlap. Plus instant replay clock management. Keeping things in line practice. Yes, we talk in practice and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.

00:01:12:19 – 00:01:35:23
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 72nd episode is Coach Chris Clement, an industrial engineer by day and a Canadian football coach by night or weekend. A few things of note. Chris coaches Canadian football, but not in the Canadian Football League. Canadian football, as we explain in bits and pieces, is different, as you will hear me say.

00:01:35:23 – 00:02:02:22
Agent Palmer
And I also think it’s more fun than American football. All of which is to say that those are both different than football, which we just call soccer here in North America. You’ll hear a few differences in the football that America and Canada play, as well as a few different cultural impacts of the game as well. You’ll hear how some of Chris’s day job skills are transferable to his passion, which is probably true for most, if not all of us.

00:02:02:27 – 00:02:20:49
Agent Palmer
And you’ll also hear what might have been had it not been for a soccer goalie or a hockey goalie. All of that and a whole lot more is coming your way shortly. But first, if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest coach Chris Clement at Coach C Clement.

00:02:20:49 – 00:02:43:35
Agent Palmer
That’s Co A C h C Clement. And this show at the Palmer Files. You can find more information about Chris and all the research you’re about to hear about at passes and patterns.blogspot.com. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com.

00:02:43:39 – 00:02:53:21
Agent Palmer
So without further ado, let’s kick off this episode.

00:02:53:26 – 00:03:05:21
Agent Palmer
Chris, you are a Canadian football coach. Daylighting as an industrial engineer. That sounds very complicated. Well.

00:03:05:26 – 00:03:15:47
Chris Clement
I pay the bills as an industrial engineer these days. Which is largely keeping the trains running in a paint factory.

00:03:15:56 – 00:03:17:19
Agent Palmer
Okay.

00:03:17:24 – 00:03:28:35
Chris Clement
Whatever has to get done. I’m making it happen. But really, my my avocation is football. So that’s that’s more how I, I guess I would say I identify.

00:03:28:40 – 00:03:41:55
Agent Palmer
Okay. Well, it it reminds me that, you know, much like this podcast, like, we have our passions and we want to do them. And sometimes our passions don’t keep the lights on.

00:03:42:08 – 00:03:43:09
Chris Clement
That that be it. Yeah.

00:03:43:21 – 00:03:47:28
Agent Palmer
Okay. Have you always enjoyed football? Was football a thing growing up for you?

00:03:47:28 – 00:03:53:53
Chris Clement
Always. Yeah. Yeah. I watched my first football game at, the age of three days.

00:03:53:58 – 00:03:57:25
Agent Palmer
Okay. So. And are there pictures?

00:03:57:30 – 00:04:01:07
Chris Clement
I don’t know if there are pictures, but I can tell you what happened in the game.

00:04:01:11 – 00:04:02:35
Agent Palmer
What happened in the game?

00:04:02:40 – 00:04:08:06
Chris Clement
Reggie Holt kicked four field goals and Michael Stone breaker with the game winning pick six to beat Michigan.

00:04:08:10 – 00:04:18:40
Agent Palmer
Wow. Okay. And is it Canadian football? Is it American football? Is it the NFL? Is it college? Is it is it any kind of football?

00:04:18:45 – 00:04:30:23
Chris Clement
Oh, watch just about any kind of football. Yeah. Okay. My focus, I guess my professional focus is on Canadian football. That’s what I’ve always worked in. And it’s also, you know, on Twitter, it’s certainly a niche.

00:04:30:35 – 00:04:31:46
Agent Palmer
Yes.

00:04:31:51 – 00:04:33:48
Chris Clement
But I don’t watch anything. Yeah.

00:04:33:53 – 00:04:38:18
Agent Palmer
And have you played just Canadian football?

00:04:38:23 – 00:04:39:25
Chris Clement
Yeah. Okay.

00:04:39:30 – 00:04:59:08
Agent Palmer
Like, so in my head as just, like an American sports fan. I understand Canadian football. Like, I get it, and I enjoy watching it, but then I go, well, what do you play in high school? Like, do you play CFL rules in high school?

00:04:59:13 – 00:05:01:59
Chris Clement
Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah. Basically. Yeah.

00:05:02:04 – 00:05:21:11
Agent Palmer
All right. So then it becomes more impressive to me when I’m watching wide receivers from British Columbia or, you know, Hamilton excel in college in Division one college in the States because it’s a while it’s similar it’s not the same game.

00:05:21:18 – 00:05:41:40
Chris Clement
No. But I mean football’s very much a late adopter sport. It’s something where you can be big and fast and athletic in just a general way. And it it translates pretty well. I mean, there’s no shortage of stories who’ve come from, of guys who’ve come from, you know, Nigeria to, to name drop David on the amateur here.

00:05:41:44 – 00:05:46:23
Chris Clement
And he picked up football in three years and now he’s with the Saints.

00:05:46:27 – 00:06:05:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I think, you know, we hear those stories about the, the power forward in basketball who like, just walked on to his high school team his senior year and then ends up at a D1 school with a, you know, full ride because, you know, you can’t teach size.

00:06:05:56 – 00:06:15:38
Chris Clement
That’s. Yeah. So so basketball is another sport where you can come in later in life and and pick up the skills if you’ve got the left like ability.

00:06:15:53 – 00:06:22:45
Agent Palmer
So when you are on the sideline what do you usually do.

00:06:22:50 – 00:06:47:36
Chris Clement
I I’m, I, I’ve been described as almost catatonic on the sideline. Okay. Like, I’m, I’m just fully locked in. There’s no emotion. There’s nothing going on. I’m. I’m just processing. And usually communicating with someone. We’re just working out what’s next? I’m always focused on what’s next. If there’s a bad call, a bad play, whatever. In two seconds, I’m over it.

00:06:47:40 – 00:06:50:14
Agent Palmer
Offense, defense, special teams.

00:06:50:19 – 00:06:53:04
Chris Clement
I’ve been all over the place. Okay. Whatever’s got to be done.

00:06:53:19 – 00:06:59:21
Agent Palmer
All right. Do you do you have, I mean, is a goal to be a head coach?

00:06:59:25 – 00:07:10:24
Chris Clement
Not especially. It’s a very political position. And I say that not in a bad way, but it is. Yeah. And it doesn’t really fit my, my skill set.

00:07:10:29 – 00:07:17:37
Agent Palmer
All right. So, so if if I were to make you a, you know, an offensive or defensive coordinator, that would probably be your your dream.

00:07:17:41 – 00:07:27:16
Chris Clement
Yeah. Yeah, that’s really where I fit. I mean, that’s basically what I do at work to I mean, organize this, keep this person doing the right thing. All that stuff.

00:07:27:21 – 00:08:12:49
Agent Palmer
So what like there are parallels. So I, I’m I’m a runner by trade. Really. I enjoy all of the sports. I don’t know, that I, I never played organized football. I played organized baseball. I played organized basketball. And then I was a runner. So track and cross-country and stuff, but I’ve always been fascinated with the amount of teamwork that is transferable from football specifically to other things, because I was, you know, the organized basketball and baseball I’m talking about is like, you know, stopped when I was 12.

00:08:12:56 – 00:08:31:39
Agent Palmer
Right. So, yeah, you’re on a team when you’re a runner, but you’re not really on a team when you’re a runner. And so like I missed out on some of that. It. Do you enjoy being, a leader on those team aspects and like, watching a team come together?

00:08:31:44 – 00:08:49:27
Chris Clement
Yeah. Yeah, it’s, it’s definitely enjoyable. I mean, even when it’s the same program, you know, every August you sort of stand up a new team and you’re not totally sure how it’s going to go. So you’re redoing the same work every year, and the results are always a little different.

00:08:49:32 – 00:09:08:30
Agent Palmer
Is it like, so, the innovation that happens in, let’s say, the playbook or the play calling? Do you enjoy relearning new systems or relearning? I guess it’s more like relearning the same system every fall or every, you know, some.

00:09:08:31 – 00:09:30:23
Chris Clement
Yeah, you’re sort of reinstalling the same plays and reteaching the same plays. You know, from my, my background in industrial engineering and optimization like to me are not looking necessarily for a wildly new play that’s going to be so much better. I’m looking to refine and optimize the same play, refine and optimize how I teach it.

00:09:30:28 – 00:09:34:39
Chris Clement
I spend a lot of time trying to improve the pedagogy of my coaching.

00:09:34:44 – 00:09:57:06
Agent Palmer
Do you get to enjoy football or like when you turn on a game on a Saturday and watch, I don’t know, Michigan play Purdue. You’re like, that that’s a play I can I can steal. Like, do you always see when you’re watching the game or can you just put it like put the coach part of you aside and just enjoy the game?

00:09:57:10 – 00:10:17:03
Chris Clement
So I, I think I’m lucky a lot of coaches can’t. And I’m able to watch in two different modes. I’ll say okay, so I can choose to be paying attention or I can choose to be enjoying it. I’d say the way it’s shown on TV, just the camera angles make it easy to not focus, on on the schemes of it.

00:10:17:08 – 00:10:23:35
Chris Clement
They just zoom in too much so you can’t see anything. Yeah. So once I can’t see anything, I’m just not going to worry about it.

00:10:23:38 – 00:10:39:37
Agent Palmer
Yeah, you almost have to wait for the replay, right? Because otherwise it’s just a bunch of things. Move. I think it’s the same as in hockey on TVs. The same way. Like, yeah, you see the action, but you have no idea how any of that set up because the camera’s your eye.

00:10:39:42 – 00:10:51:29
Chris Clement
Yeah. And if they just zoomed out five, 10% and adjusted a little bit, we’d see so much more. Yeah. But I’m, I personally selfishly, I’m glad they don’t. It lets me just mindlessly watch a game.

00:10:51:43 – 00:11:21:13
Agent Palmer
Nice, nice. Do you? And you’re like, I think you’re the first coach I get to ask this to. Do you find video games having an impact in play calling because like, I, I would imagine that the kids, especially in college right now and and definitely in high school, these are athletes that grew up playing Madden when it was the off season.

00:11:21:27 – 00:11:30:34
Agent Palmer
And so there are parts of the game that they’ve got to simulate. That Tecmo Bowl did not do for me.

00:11:30:39 – 00:11:54:56
Chris Clement
Yeah. I mean I think a lot of coaches Pooh Pooh it, but I think also that the modern, versions of Madden have gotten really good. I know that, you know, when you get to the extremes of very competitive Madden, it breaks down again. But if you’re playing socially like it’s a pretty good simulation. And I think it lets them see a lot of, you know, how space and things work.

00:11:55:01 – 00:11:57:43
Chris Clement
I do have an anecdote about losing a game because of Madden.

00:11:57:45 – 00:11:58:34
Agent Palmer
Okay.

00:11:58:39 – 00:12:27:55
Chris Clement
All right, so, we are playing Calgary 2014, and, we’re down 1 or 2 last drive of the game. We get into field goal range long but makeable. For our kicker. Game is ending. A few seconds left. Now key detail about Canadian clock rules. Inside the three minute warning, the clock stops after every play and restarts on the ready for play when the ref sets the ball and whistles at it.

00:12:27:59 – 00:12:54:29
Chris Clement
Yep. And more importantly, in Canadian football, the game or every quarter actually must end on a play. Yeah. So you can’t you can’t just let the court the quarter end and run to zero if there’s time left on the clock when the last play ended. You gotta run another play. Yep. So we’re in a no pressure. There’s three seconds left on the clock or whatever, but it doesn’t matter because we’ve got the full play clock to to run the play.

00:12:54:34 – 00:13:21:49
Chris Clement
We go out, we line up. The ref whistles it in our Madden loving holder sees the clock ticking down three two. He panics, having forgotten that no, no you have the whole 22nd play clock not three seconds. Relax. He panics. Panic Screams ball ball ball. Kickers not ready. Kicker has to kick it awkwardly. Falls two yards short. We lose the game.

00:13:21:54 – 00:13:37:25
Agent Palmer
He’s. I almost feel like there’s a blame America scenario in this too, though, because the rules are different and Madden is, you know, not see. There is no CFL video game. Right?

00:13:37:25 – 00:13:42:42
Chris Clement
So there’s, a beat, that is in I’ll say, development hell at the moment.

00:13:42:43 – 00:13:46:54
Agent Palmer
Okay. But like that, that’s our fault. Really.

00:13:46:59 – 00:13:56:57
Chris Clement
Like, I mean, if you were asking that question any other time, he he understands the rule. In the moment, he panicked. And, you know, he’s a kid and they do that.

00:13:57:01 – 00:14:29:55
Agent Palmer
Okay. I mean, it’s fair. I, I think sports over the last I’m going to say five years time management is always a talking point, win or lose. I think that if you’re a talking head on any network or podcast or radio, you you can talk about clock management. People seem to I don’t know either think there’s two they have more than they do or think they can do more in the time they’ve got.

00:14:30:00 – 00:14:53:21
Chris Clement
Yeah. I mean, I think there’s two, two parts to that on the coaching side. There’s, there’s the knowing the realities of it, the facts of it. Like, if I sat you down with a pen and paper to think it through, could you get it right? And then there’s the implementation in the game. Yeah. I’ll, I’ll give the benefit of the doubt that coaches are able to do the first part, by and large.

00:14:53:22 – 00:15:16:17
Chris Clement
Yep. And I think where a lot of coaches struggle is in the second part. And you know, as to the why of that, that I think is part of but a cultural issue in coaching, especially in football, is, comes back to control. I mean, football is such a random game, and those coaches are trying to control and limit that randomness.

00:15:16:21 – 00:15:40:56
Chris Clement
And so this is something you should just outsource. The rules of clock management, like they’re pretty straightforward. How do you manage and optimize your time. It’s it’s not complicated. It may be difficult because there’s a lot going on. So just have someone whose job is to manage. Just have a clock. Guy who understands all the rules, knows every situation, has a binder with every possible scenario.

00:15:41:03 – 00:15:44:01
Chris Clement
Yeah. Is the. And take the pressure off yourself.

00:15:44:03 – 00:16:12:17
Agent Palmer
Do you find that the translation from practice to game is something that the average player that can do something right in practice. It’s an adjustment and a learning like you you yeah. You know, it’s I don’t know what it would be like. You know, you got to get your 10,000 downs, right. Like you have to be in it in game mode, because just going through the motions and running the routes in practice is not the same.

00:16:12:22 – 00:16:34:50
Chris Clement
Yeah, there’s always that that, stepping it up to the game. Some people do that better than others. And that’s not just a football or even a sports thing. Sure. Yeah. That’s anything. You know, your you’re a good test taker and that sort of thing. And definitely lots of practice and good quality practice that makes that go more smoothly.

00:16:34:54 – 00:16:51:26
Chris Clement
It just becomes unconscious and that. Absolutely. Like if you are just going through the motions in practice, it’s going to take a lot longer for that to become ingrained. Okay. For sure. So quality practice is is as important as quantity is there.

00:16:51:31 – 00:16:53:17
Agent Palmer
Did you play when you were.

00:16:53:22 – 00:17:04:15
Chris Clement
Yeah, young I played, I played high school and I played for our, club team. Or you’d call it. Okay. Like, sort of like a you football, roughly.

00:17:04:26 – 00:17:08:31
Agent Palmer
Gotcha. And you, what position or positions?

00:17:08:36 – 00:17:10:38
Chris Clement
Most of my time as a defensive back.

00:17:10:52 – 00:17:11:34
Agent Palmer
Okay.

00:17:11:38 – 00:17:12:37
Chris Clement
Yeah.

00:17:12:42 – 00:17:43:34
Agent Palmer
I, I have, respect for you because, one of the things that being a runner, when you’re, when your friends know you’re a runner and you get in a pickup game, you’re a wide receiver and you’re a defensive back, and it’s always, well, if you can outrun him on offense, you should be able to keep up with him on defense.

00:17:43:47 – 00:17:46:08
Chris Clement
Solutely not no, no, no.

00:17:46:12 – 00:18:01:10
Agent Palmer
And so like the the especially when you’re, you know your friends who are like linemen are saying this to you like oh it just looks so easy. You blew by him and the when we scored the touchdown of course you can keep up with him is not so easy.

00:18:01:15 – 00:18:20:22
Chris Clement
No, not at all. Yeah. Covering someone who is of equal athletic ability to you is very difficult, especially in like a touch game where you don’t have the advantage of linebackers. There to fill up space. You you can’t hit them. Yeah. Yeah. No. Very different.

00:18:20:22 – 00:18:39:10
Agent Palmer
Would you, would you say that in order to get the upper hand, you almost have to be like that? Like. Because if you’re on equal footing, I feel like you’re at a loss most of the time. So, like, you need to be that much better than them to really be in control and like be a locked down corner or DB.

00:18:39:15 – 00:18:45:42
Chris Clement
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, getting open is much easier than covering someone, you know. All things being equal.

00:18:45:45 – 00:18:57:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Okay. Do you have a I mean, that was your youth. Now that you’ve coached both sides of the ball. Do you still prefer defense?

00:18:57:18 – 00:19:08:45
Chris Clement
I don’t care as a from a coaching perspective, like okay. To me it’s the same. The same general problem. Yeah. It doesn’t doesn’t bother me either way. Whatever needs to get done.

00:19:08:50 – 00:19:15:41
Agent Palmer
Okay. Are there other sports that you, would be interested in, or is it like. Football’s, my love?

00:19:15:45 – 00:19:32:58
Chris Clement
I, I coached rugby for a few seasons. Love. Loved it. Enjoyed the heck out of it. Especially my most recent season. Coached, a women’s team of young women who, by and large, never played at all in their lives. And we just had a blast.

00:19:33:03 – 00:19:36:06
Agent Palmer
Was it full or sevens or sevens?

00:19:36:06 – 00:19:40:08
Chris Clement
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Could not have asked for a more enjoyable team.

00:19:40:13 – 00:20:06:39
Agent Palmer
I’ve tried to watch rugby, and I say tried because I can watch sevens. Sevens is exciting to me. I and whenever I can find it on the dial, I mean, it’s not like, widely covered, but like, whenever I can find rugby sevens I’m all for it. The actual factual, like traditional. I find a bit slow.

00:20:06:44 – 00:20:30:36
Chris Clement
I think there’s some problems with fifteens right now. In the way it’s administered. And, a good friend of mine is, is well placed in Rugby Canada and, and we’ve had this discussion. He generally doesn’t even disagree with me. I think there’s some real problems with how fifteens is being managed or played or run or however you want to put that.

00:20:30:41 – 00:20:36:03
Chris Clement
Yeah. I think the scrums suck these days.

00:20:36:05 – 00:20:51:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think that’s, that’s kind of well, that’s that’s what grinds it to a halt. Right? Like there’s no real in sevens. There’s so few people you’re talking about a scrum of two on two, right. Like or you know, something along those lines and.

00:20:51:04 – 00:21:09:28
Chris Clement
Yeah. Well they, they’ve let the, they’ve let the props get so big. I mean they’re not, they’re not going to put a weight limit in. But these guys, they’re there to win scrums and they’re it takes forever for them to get into position. They’re slowing the pace of the game down because they’re gassed and they’re trying to catch their breath.

00:21:09:33 – 00:21:27:59
Chris Clement
And I don’t know, to me, I think if you’re not ready to scrummage penalty ten meters. Give the ball the other team. Let’s go. Yeah. I think allowing them to slow the pace of the game like that, it’s killing a lot of stuff. And then the way they allow put in is basically you have to put the ball in straight on the scrum.

00:21:28:12 – 00:21:45:20
Chris Clement
Yeah, but guys have figured out how to spin the ball so that yeah, it’s going in straight, but it’s not going in straight. It always goes straight back to their team. So the defending team, the team is not putting in. They’re not even trying anymore to to win over the scrum I mean there’s nothing there’s nothing going on.

00:21:45:20 – 00:21:46:31
Chris Clement
There’s no action.

00:21:46:36 – 00:21:48:58
Agent Palmer
It’s like a free timeout almost.

00:21:49:03 – 00:22:04:17
Chris Clement
Yeah. Like we’ve now lost a minute of play for what was a foregone conclusion. So if we’re if we’re not going to scrummage, just get rid of it. I know it’s a big part of rugby’s sort of image, but you’re you’re letting it wither on the vine.

00:22:04:22 – 00:22:08:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think that’s why I think I prefer sevens because it’s sevens moves.

00:22:08:54 – 00:22:10:23
Chris Clement
And I get that it.

00:22:10:23 – 00:22:31:50
Agent Palmer
Feels like a different sport. I mean, I know it’s not, but it feels like a different sport. Like if you, if you put them side by side, you know, it’s the difference between, like, what I heard basketball was before the shot clock where you could do the four corners offense and just pass the ball around for 20 minutes and then score our two points and get out of here.

00:22:31:55 – 00:22:37:01
Chris Clement
Yeah. Like that’s that’s if you get some bad fifteens, that’s definitely where you could end up watching.

00:22:37:02 – 00:22:52:31
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Well I mean we’re going through. So I happen to because I, I’m a font of trivia okay. Especially useless. Have you played Canada’s national sport?

00:22:52:35 – 00:22:53:39
Chris Clement
Hockey. Yeah, I.

00:22:53:47 – 00:22:54:57
Agent Palmer
That’s not my Canada’s.

00:22:54:58 – 00:22:56:17
Chris Clement
National right. Yeah.

00:22:56:22 – 00:22:57:42
Agent Palmer
Not one.

00:22:57:46 – 00:23:06:32
Chris Clement
I, I hyper corrected, I figures you wouldn’t know that. Yeah. I have not much more than Jim Crosse level lacrosse. Okay.

00:23:06:37 – 00:23:10:34
Agent Palmer
That’s I mean that’s I’ve, I’ve got the same amount of lacrosse that you do.

00:23:10:36 – 00:23:15:08
Chris Clement
The lacrosse renaissance was like just a little behind me.

00:23:15:13 – 00:23:19:18
Agent Palmer
Okay. But I mean, hockey.

00:23:19:23 – 00:23:22:43
Chris Clement
I played hockey as a little kid.

00:23:22:48 – 00:23:29:24
Agent Palmer
Was it was it a case where, like, you played hockey until you fell in love? Well, I mean, you fell in love with football at three.

00:23:29:26 – 00:23:47:46
Chris Clement
No, I, I moved from hockey to skiing. I wasn’t loving hockey. It didn’t. It didn’t click for me and all that. Skiing is by far the sport. I’m best that, So that’s I. Football didn’t come along till high school.

00:23:47:48 – 00:24:09:16
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. Is is well. All right. I am in Pennsylvania. Which second to Texas probably has the most important cultural impact put upon its high school football teams. Right. How is high school football in Canada like? Is it? Is it.

00:24:09:21 – 00:24:11:21
Chris Clement
Even close?

00:24:11:32 – 00:24:12:37
Agent Palmer
Okay.

00:24:12:42 – 00:24:33:32
Chris Clement
Like, we play our games at 230 on Thursday afternoons. Usually. So school would let out, you know, just before kickoff. Girlfriend’s friends, a few teachers, some people who just had a lot of spirit would show up. I mean, be a couple hundred people.

00:24:33:37 – 00:24:35:39
Agent Palmer
But you’re not. You’re not sitting in.

00:24:35:43 – 00:24:56:36
Chris Clement
There’s no stadium. We don’t have any stands. I think my my old high school now has a few bleachers. But there weren’t any stands. Once or twice a year, we’d go out to, the call, like a civic field area where they had stands and lights, and they put it on the little local TV. And it was it was fun.

00:24:56:36 – 00:25:02:41
Chris Clement
It was exciting. But, like, it’s not it’s multiple orders of magnitude of difference.

00:25:02:41 – 00:25:06:51
Agent Palmer
So, so when a show like Friday Night Lights comes along, like, that’s.

00:25:06:51 – 00:25:08:11
Chris Clement
Got delayed at all. Yeah.

00:25:08:12 – 00:25:09:28
Agent Palmer
Okay.

00:25:09:33 – 00:25:30:48
Chris Clement
It’s a it’s a foreign country. I will say, like, when I was in northern Quebec, it was maybe not on that level. Certainly, but it was certainly more of a thing. Especially more with the sea jump, which I will roughly translate to somewhere between high school and JuCo.

00:25:30:55 – 00:25:31:17
Agent Palmer
Okay.

00:25:31:26 – 00:25:48:01
Chris Clement
Halfway between those two. You know, we get crowds of a couple thousand, maybe a little more for our big rivalry game. There’s that. I mean, I will say that even even when I was coaching, grade five six, you could still buy a beer at the game, but that might just be Quebec for you.

00:25:48:06 – 00:26:02:40
Agent Palmer
Okay. That’s. I mean, it. I’m always amazed at how much we as Americans, we put on a 16 year old who can throw the ball down the field like that’s. That’s an awful lot of pressure.

00:26:02:45 – 00:26:17:33
Chris Clement
That’s. Yeah. That’s not, culturally a, such a thing. Okay. Even for hockey, there’s not that outside of the hockey team itself and the hockey community. Yeah. You’re not going to see crowds like that until you’re looking at, like, major junior.

00:26:17:40 – 00:26:34:10
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. And when when you’re not doing sports and you’re not doing your day job, do you get to relax? Or is like, is the football the relaxing part?

00:26:34:15 – 00:26:44:38
Chris Clement
The football is relaxing. I got a five week old, and I’m, redoing my basement, so those keep me busy.

00:26:44:39 – 00:26:49:36
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. And and are you raising a football fan?

00:26:49:41 – 00:26:50:08
Chris Clement
Yes.

00:26:50:11 – 00:26:53:54
Agent Palmer
Okay. That was non-negotiable.

00:26:53:54 – 00:26:57:11
Chris Clement
I’m guessing it was not. Okay.

00:26:57:16 – 00:27:15:50
Agent Palmer
Now. What? Like what? You have a blog where? For a very long time. And I know you haven’t done it for a bit. You explain gained in detail the Canadian Football League and or aspects of it.

00:27:15:54 – 00:27:39:54
Chris Clement
Yeah. So, the first three, I think I wrote a half a dozen articles on there that were really state of the art. They really established where are we in the analytics community, you know? Yeah. If I dare use the term, what have we figured out on whatever subject? And, a lot of that was for my own edification.

00:27:39:58 – 00:28:00:22
Chris Clement
I felt like I needed to do the reading. My blog largely lies fallow now, because I’ve moved on to just posting snappy things on Twitter, and I no longer really have the time for long form like that that, you know, as much as this is a long form conversation, those are like 60 page articles with 200 footnotes.

00:28:00:26 – 00:28:24:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I was going to ask, like, obviously you’re an industrial engineer, like you’ve done the whole you’ve had to do homework before, but the blog that’s like passion project research was it. But but it was still research. Right. So like where there parts where you’re writing that or researching it where like this is, this is a bit much.

00:28:24:02 – 00:28:25:20
Agent Palmer
What did I get myself into.

00:28:25:21 – 00:28:48:15
Chris Clement
Oh were there ever. I, I wanted to do my own research and I realized I had to do my own research. I was gonna have to do a lot of reading. And in order to organize my thoughts, I just started this actually started as sort of the a lit review of writing original work, and then it just grew and grew until it became its own thing.

00:28:48:15 – 00:29:26:03
Chris Clement
And then I, I quickly realized, I’ve got it turned from one into three into six very long. It it grew out of control. I absolutely felt that way. And it also, it bears mentioning that at the time, there was sort of, an interregnum, in the community, we had sort of the early guys, the Brian Burke’s and the Bill crackers, and we hadn’t really gotten into the modern sort of explosion, but democratized and, where it’s gotten really easy to fire up your computer and start making natural graphs.

00:29:26:08 – 00:29:53:35
Chris Clement
You still really have to do a lot of hand work. Your, your mathematical models were bespoke and individually made. So, so I needed to do the reading and figure out what the hell I was doing. I was trying to follow a path that had only been somewhat blazed. Whereas now, like you, you can in an afternoon, you can start making your own stuff, and you don’t have to make your own model.

00:29:53:35 – 00:29:55:59
Chris Clement
Someone’s made a model. You can just use it.

00:29:56:13 – 00:30:09:50
Agent Palmer
Now, I presume this is one of the few instances where your engineering education really helps. When it came to football.

00:30:09:55 – 00:30:42:42
Chris Clement
I would say yes and no to both parts. That statement. Okay, so as far as, the only part where it’s helpful most when I’m working, when I, when I was working full time in football, you know, most of my time wasn’t on technical football stuff. Okay. A lot of it was on essentially project management organizations that like, for managing the team, I mean, we got 84 players, 15 coaches, a dozen training staff.

00:30:42:42 – 00:31:06:37
Chris Clement
When you include the students, bunch of other support staff. So we’ve got a game. Saskatoon Friday night. I got a book for three practices on, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday evening. That’s in the stadium. So we got to cull, the bombers, the protein with whom we share a stadium because they manage the booking for the field. And then we got to make sure that the Thursday morning, you know, Thursday practice is in the morning.

00:31:06:37 – 00:31:29:15
Chris Clement
Then we got to get the bus. Where’s the bus going to stop half way to Saskatoon. What hotel we staying at? Who’s feeding the kids? Whatever. Right. Like all those even down to, like, I got to walk across campus to the math department so that I can pick up a sealed envelope with the stats midterm, because the difference of coordinator is going to proctor the stats midterm on Saturday morning for a bunch of kids.

00:31:29:20 – 00:31:29:34
Agent Palmer
Okay?

00:31:29:42 – 00:31:32:04
Chris Clement
Because there’s no other way to make the logistics of this.

00:31:32:04 – 00:32:05:36
Agent Palmer
Work that I mean, it it I think it bears repeating the amount of passion that college coaches, especially the not Division one head coaches, the guys who aren’t, you know, especially the ones who aren’t the highest paid, you know, employee of the the state. Right. That. Yeah. And and even on down to JuCo and and even maybe on a high school level to where like there’s a lot of stuff you do that’s not just X’s and O’s.

00:32:05:41 – 00:32:33:28
Chris Clement
No, no. Most of my time was not, you know, me throwing, recruiting, coordinating or our part time coaches, all that stuff. So I used a lot of, like my, my engineering sort of soft skills there. Yeah. Organizing, planning. But at the same time, my engineering skills were less useful than you might think. When I really got into the statistics of.

00:32:33:28 – 00:33:05:16
Chris Clement
Yeah, I understood statistics. But I didn’t have any real training and and writing code. I mean, I messed around with it on my own a few times. I had one course in university in first year that I remembered nothing from. So a lot of it was, was stumbling around and figure out on my own where the engineering background has been useful is has been sort of understanding how to turn them.

00:33:05:16 – 00:33:25:38
Chris Clement
I can do all kinds of math and figure out what it’s worth and what it means. Okay, I can figure out that this and that are correlated, but what does that actually mean on the football field? In what direction is the causality of that? Is is A causing B or is B causing A, or are they both just offshoots of C?

00:33:25:42 – 00:33:54:56
Chris Clement
Does this mean anything? Is this just junk? Is this just sort of random noise that I’m fixating on? I think that’s the so the edge I bring, I don’t have the math, the code, the statistics skills of a lot of people in the community, but I, the one was, I guess I live in a I’m but parado efficient and that no one else has my combination of football knowledge that’s college and and liaising between the two.

00:33:55:01 – 00:34:05:20
Agent Palmer
So at what point do you get into coaching. Because obviously, you know, at a certain point you’re a player and then you kind of, you know, you play up to a certain level.

00:34:05:25 – 00:34:06:57
Chris Clement
Yeah.

00:34:07:02 – 00:34:14:59
Agent Palmer
I guess before I ask how you got there, like was being a coach that kind of a goal I disagree with?

00:34:14:59 – 00:34:46:06
Chris Clement
Not it was not at all. I as much as I enjoyed my, my time, playing football, loved it. Had terrifically fond memories, on and off the field. Was it was something I had largely put away, until I was sort of not doing a whole lot in my, my day job at the time. And a friend of a friend of a friend happened to be coaching a team of grade five and six.

00:34:46:11 – 00:34:57:38
Chris Clement
At the time, I’d just been reading about football just because I had time to kill. And he asked if I wanted to help. Had a great time that season and sort of one thing led to another.

00:34:57:43 – 00:35:04:34
Agent Palmer
Wow. Okay. Otherwise, I mean, you you’d have a very different way to spend your free time.

00:35:04:39 – 00:35:07:30
Chris Clement
Yeah. I don’t know what my life would have looked like.

00:35:07:34 – 00:35:16:38
Agent Palmer
So is coaching like a permanent fixture now for you? Like you can’t see your way to not being.

00:35:16:43 – 00:35:40:26
Chris Clement
I, I think so in what capacity. Like that’s I don’t know, you know, like the, the, you know, the plague and all that sort of threw me for, for a couple of seasons. We’ll see. But yeah, I think, I think some sort of involvement at some level is, is definitely, always going to be going to be part of it.

00:35:40:31 – 00:35:44:50
Agent Palmer
What were you reading? As far as, like about football?

00:35:44:55 – 00:36:10:45
Chris Clement
At the time, there was not a lot of, resources. I went through Brian Burke’s blog at that time. It was an active blog. So that’s how long ago this was. And I was on a, coaching, web forum at the time that was very active and very informative and understanding, understanding football on the technical side at a level that I didn’t necessarily have as a player.

00:36:10:54 – 00:36:28:23
Chris Clement
Okay. I feel like I had a pretty good understanding from the players side, but it’s never the same. And, and also now understanding sort of really understanding how coaches think, how coaches work so that I yeah, you could figure out how to do it myself. Once the opportunity fell into my lap.

00:36:28:28 – 00:36:48:42
Agent Palmer
How much? And I ask this as a loaded question, I guess, as a I’ve been a producer for certain projects and being a producer, I wear many hats, but one of them is psychologist. It just it just happens. How much of coaching is psychology? Like? A lot of it.

00:36:48:47 – 00:37:14:29
Chris Clement
I mean, it’s not it’s not Svengali. Yeah, okay. At least not for me. Like, that’s not my skill. I’m not. I’m not someone who who, you know, has you look into his eyes and you feel a deep connection. I think largely, I think I’ve, I think I can usually end up with pretty good relationships with my players just because I can be honest with them.

00:37:14:33 – 00:37:32:19
Chris Clement
And I try to try to match their energy, I guess, like if a player is really shy and super polite, like I’m like an approach from a different way. And then there’s always that player who thinks he’s the clown is going to try and crack a joke at you, and I’ll get him right back when he makes a mistake.

00:37:32:23 – 00:37:53:19
Chris Clement
But I’m not trying to be inauthentic with it. And then the other thing is, and this is something that I. I take with me everywhere and always, when I’m explaining something. When I’m teaching something, I always try to really explain it. And to do that for me, I have to really understand it, let them ask whatever questions they want.

00:37:53:24 – 00:38:10:56
Chris Clement
If we find ourselves painted into a corner, then, okay, we got a problem and we’re going to figure this out. So yeah, them knowing that I, you know, I don’t have all the answers. But we’re going to figure this out and I’m not going to just tell you to shut up and go away. I mean, yeah, there’s there’s a psychology.

00:38:11:01 – 00:38:21:42
Chris Clement
Sometimes you’ve got to deal with some players personal stuff and I can help them out, but I’m not going to, you know, I’ll help them out in my way, which is usually I’m good at solving problems and keeping the trains running on time.

00:38:21:47 – 00:38:33:34
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, that’s that’s the engineering background, right? Like, how do I get how do I fix it? Like what’s what’s the. Yeah. That that makes sense. I, I think it’s producing is very similar.

00:38:33:39 – 00:38:37:38
Chris Clement
I, I can imagine like you’re it’s a, it’s project management. Really. Yeah.

00:38:37:38 – 00:38:38:39
Agent Palmer
I there’s a lot.

00:38:38:42 – 00:38:43:01
Chris Clement
Of people that project management involves people who are having a bad day.

00:38:43:05 – 00:39:12:43
Agent Palmer
And some. Yeah. Or sometimes it’s people that, you know, are missing a pen or like, you know, just need, you know, it’s very weird how much of life comes down to project management. Yeah. Just in general, whether it’s, hobbies, passions, day jobs, you know, it’s all about, you know, making sure you have the tools and the knowledge to get the thing done, whatever the thing happens to be.

00:39:12:47 – 00:39:28:51
Chris Clement
Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s football that’s producing a movie or a play or. Yeah, just having a plan and just about anything in life. And to me, like, we can fix a bad plan, but if there’s no plan, we’re in a bad place.

00:39:29:02 – 00:39:44:05
Agent Palmer
But yeah, that’s this is true. Yeah. Like, like, you know, if you don’t have a car, you can’t fix a car, right? Like, there’s there’s any bit of metaphors where it’s like, well, we need something to start with.

00:39:44:10 – 00:40:03:44
Chris Clement
Yeah, yeah, I mean that even, you know, industrial engineering like the hydraulic units not working. Well, ten of you have been staring at it for an hour. Me and Steve, we’re going to go to the conference room where there’s a whiteboard. We’re going to make ourselves a couple of nice coffees. We’re going to sit. We’re going to talk this through.

00:40:03:44 – 00:40:07:40
Chris Clement
We’re going to come back with the plan because you guys poking at it has not worked all day.

00:40:07:45 – 00:40:17:18
Agent Palmer
Was engineering like the thing that you were going to do or did or did you happen into that as well, like coaching?

00:40:17:22 – 00:40:26:51
Chris Clement
Yeah. Happening. Well, I’m happy I had a clear intention of doing my degree in engineering. Okay. I had no intention of using it.

00:40:27:01 – 00:40:35:06
Agent Palmer
Well, well, hold on, if you. What? What? Why were you going to get this degree that you had no intention.

00:40:35:11 – 00:40:38:12
Chris Clement
You had was fully set on being an Air Force pilot.

00:40:38:12 – 00:40:38:52
Agent Palmer
Okay?

00:40:38:57 – 00:41:02:31
Chris Clement
Which was my my career path up until a certain point. And then I needed a degree. Sure. I figured, you know, if I’m going to. Well, first of all, I’m I’m good at this sort of thing. And second, I might as well go for the most complicated, difficult to obscure one I can. So chemical engineering, here I come.

00:41:02:36 – 00:41:07:53
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. And and did you ever learn how to fly?

00:41:07:58 – 00:41:31:23
Chris Clement
A little. But, unfortunately, I actually got badly hurt in a hockey game. Which, Fun fact I’m told I haven’t looked at the statistics, itself, but I am told that the, Canadian military loses more people to hockey injuries than to battlefield injuries.

00:41:31:28 – 00:41:33:20
Agent Palmer
That. Wow.

00:41:33:24 – 00:41:39:27
Chris Clement
Well, if you think about it, like middle aged men going out once or twice a week and skating their asses off.

00:41:39:31 – 00:42:01:23
Agent Palmer
No, this is true. I, I mean, it’s not it’s I think it’s also a mind over matter. And I don’t mean that in a good way. I mean, like, well, I used to, you know, skate really fast and turn on a dime when I was 20. And now that I’m 40, I’m going to do that again. And it’s like, oh, I, you know, you can’t do this anymore.

00:42:01:28 – 00:42:18:09
Chris Clement
Yeah, yeah. That’s certainly a thing. And as I’m getting older, I everyone’s I realize I have to exercise more just so that I don’t have that shock effect of the first time back after 6 or 8 months, I. You got to stay warm.

00:42:18:09 – 00:42:44:21
Agent Palmer
I, I, I agree with you. I also find that as I’ve aged, I, I have to put in double the work for the same amount of results like my I, I’m not ever naive enough to be like, well, you know, my first run of the spring is going to be like a six minute mile, like it used to be when I was, you know, in peak physical condition as a teenager.

00:42:44:21 – 00:42:52:50
Agent Palmer
But like the amount of effort I have to put in for like an eight minute mile now feels like I should be running at six mile.

00:42:52:55 – 00:43:04:18
Chris Clement
Yeah. It doesn’t it doesn’t get any easier. So. But, yeah, I did a little bit of, flight training and, well, that was basically the end of that to, to shorten that story quite a bit.

00:43:04:22 – 00:43:13:09
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. Well, I mean, well was flying the end all be all there or was there like when I was 16.

00:43:13:09 – 00:43:18:53
Chris Clement
Okay. Wow. 20. Yeah. When I was 22. You know.

00:43:18:58 – 00:43:41:04
Agent Palmer
Okay, I, I it’s one of those things I, I look at as a, as, I don’t know, a topic of interest, I guess would be the right frame. I, I’m interested in, like, the astronauts as they were. And, you know, the space race as it was and, and even to an extent how things have developed now.

00:43:41:08 – 00:43:59:43
Agent Palmer
But I’ve never been the I want to do it, I don’t I, I enjoy watching it. You know, I was the kid who wanted to be an aerospace engineer because it would be cool to be involved, but I didn’t want to actually get on the rocket like I.

00:43:59:56 – 00:44:00:34
Chris Clement
Oh, yeah.

00:44:00:37 – 00:44:07:12
Agent Palmer
Like, I, I knew enough to know, like, that’s cool. Somebody else can do that.

00:44:07:16 – 00:44:31:01
Chris Clement
Yeah. I mean, at the time, I wanted to do it. Oh, now that I’m older, the lifestyle that goes with that and I’m not someone offered it to me tomorrow. I probably wouldn’t want it. Okay. Yeah, but if someone offered me to go back to being 20 and doing all over again and having a chance to have it work out this time, I would have just said, no, thank you.

00:44:31:01 – 00:44:41:07
Chris Clement
I will not join your hockey team. I yeah, I wasn’t even a hockey player. They just needed a goalie. And I had been the soccer goalie for the intramural team.

00:44:41:12 – 00:44:52:40
Agent Palmer
I don’t I don’t know, man. I think you need to reevaluate. Who asked you that because I, I don’t think soccer and hockey. I don’t think goalie and goalie translates.

00:44:52:44 – 00:45:07:51
Chris Clement
I well, I don’t I’m not a soccer player either. But I had figured out it’s intramural soccer. Nobody here is a good soccer player. And I had figured out that if you pressure a bad a non soccer player, they will miss a wide open net.

00:45:07:56 – 00:45:08:32
Agent Palmer
Okay?

00:45:08:34 – 00:45:16:38
Chris Clement
I mean so I would just charge people and then throw myself in front of them as big as I could and they’d have to do something and they’d kick and miss.

00:45:16:43 – 00:45:18:40
Agent Palmer
That’s I mean that’s that’s pretty good.

00:45:18:43 – 00:45:27:46
Chris Clement
It’s like not a second to anyone who played any soccer in their life. They scored. It wasn’t, it wasn’t a sustainable strategy. But against non soccer players it works.

00:45:27:46 – 00:45:33:01
Agent Palmer
That’s I mean it’s pretty good though I mean that’s I mean that’s using your head that I.

00:45:33:01 – 00:45:35:00
Chris Clement
Took a few off the face but.

00:45:35:05 – 00:45:37:09
Agent Palmer
You know but those don’t go in usually they.

00:45:37:09 – 00:45:38:29
Chris Clement
Do not. They do not.

00:45:38:34 – 00:45:40:38
Agent Palmer
So I mean mission accomplished.

00:45:40:43 – 00:45:42:38
Chris Clement
Yeah.

00:45:42:43 – 00:46:03:34
Agent Palmer
It sounds like you, you know, could you coach anything? Like, I feel like this is a question I have to ask. I mean, the list of sports that we’ve mentioned, especially that you’ve played. I know football’s the one now, but like. And rugby. But could you like coach basketball or you know like I mean obviously sports like.

00:46:03:39 – 00:46:30:34
Chris Clement
What level like I, I have the general organizational skills and enough of a grasp on the sport to coach. You know many sports at the junior you know kids level like that is just kind of keeping them pointed in the right direction. I, I could I’m confident going out there coaching any football team. No problem. Agriculture high school rugby team.

00:46:30:39 – 00:46:48:16
Chris Clement
You know, above that. That’s time you get too technical for me. I could do, you know, I could probably do a baseball team. I did a played a bit of baseball as a kid. Enjoyed that quite a bit. I could coach some ski racing. Beyond that, I’d need to do some studying.

00:46:48:25 – 00:47:25:57
Agent Palmer
Okay. And and, I mean, based on the things you listed earlier, you don’t quite have the time to study to to coach a brand new sport, you know? Fair enough. I mean, look, I, I’m always interested that not a lot of people understand that there’s a different football. And I’m not talking soccer like that. The CFL is just different because to me it’s very similar to the conversation we had about rugby and rugby sevens.

00:47:26:02 – 00:48:20:15
Agent Palmer
The CFL moves to me, it’s always in motion and I think part of it’s the play clock and I think part of it is the three downs. But more than that, for whatever reason, your instant replay just happens. And I think that having watched a lot of now as we’re recording this March Madness just ended and March Madness wasn’t very bad with this, but the conference tournaments leading into March Madness this year drove me absolutely batty as a sports fan because what seems obvious from a replay that they’re showing to the hundreds of thousands of millions of people that are tuning in from home, takes the referees and their little clicker or like, fast forward

00:48:20:15 – 00:48:37:24
Agent Palmer
rewind, show much longer to do. And and it breaks up a football game, it breaks up a basketball game. It breaks up all these games, the CFL, it feels like they throw their challenge flag and they go, I don’t like that call. And like within a minute it’s done.

00:48:37:29 – 00:49:03:48
Chris Clement
Yeah. I’m not I’m not privy to the inner workings of how it works. But I know that, replay centralized much like hockey. And when replay really came in, it was especially when they allowed challenging pass interference. It was a debacle. Essentially, there is illegal contact on every single play in football.

00:49:03:48 – 00:49:08:14
Agent Palmer
It’s just like if you’re not holding on a defensive or offensive line, you’re not trying.

00:49:08:14 – 00:49:29:38
Chris Clement
Right? Like it happens on every single play. It is understood that that is the way the game is played. Yep. And so the rule de facto is that that is legal, you know, up to a certain point. Yeah, the jury it is not. But when you start opening the replay, you look at every single guy on every single play, you’re going to find illegal contact with every single one.

00:49:29:38 – 00:49:52:16
Chris Clement
So, you know, coaches essentially figured out when I need that first down. I feel that chance like they’re going to find illegal contact. And it was bad for a season or two. They seem to have gotten that sorted out. Centralizing the replay. First you get you get essentially like precedent. You know, it’s the same guy doing the same reviews.

00:49:52:21 – 00:50:13:53
Chris Clement
After a little while, he gets the vibe of it, and he’s making consistent calls on replay because he’s doing four games a week and he’s doing 20 weeks a season. He’s got this down. It’s the same crew, same looking up the camera angles like they get a vibe going. I think that really helps. Why other leagues are not centralizing this is beyond me.

00:50:13:57 – 00:50:40:45
Agent Palmer
I just I baseball tried like they really did try, but again, it feels like it changes every year. And I think that the reason it when it changes every year, either the rules or the spirit of the rule, if we want to go that far, when that stuff changes all the time, like you don’t get, 1 or 2 year growing pain, you get growing pains every year.

00:50:40:45 – 00:51:00:48
Agent Palmer
And it just, it ruins things. But it it’s one of the reasons that I like the league. It just it always seems to move. I don’t have to worry that a CFL game that kicks off might be a seven hour affair. Like, that’s never going to happen. Over time maybe. But it it not really.

00:51:00:59 – 00:51:13:15
Chris Clement
Not without a reason. Yeah, it tends to and honestly these are the things that, that, fans do complain about. The games do take too long and the replay does take too long. But, you know, it’s all relative.

00:51:13:20 – 00:51:14:54
Agent Palmer
Yes.

00:51:14:59 – 00:51:31:23
Chris Clement
That’s. Yeah. The 20s like, again, I think that we need to move faster with how quickly we spot the ball before we get the play clock going and things like that to, to go even further in that direction. Okay. But to be honest, I have some pretty radical rewrites of the rule book. If I were in charge.

00:51:31:28 – 00:51:36:16
Agent Palmer
So that that could be next time.

00:51:36:21 – 00:51:47:54
Chris Clement
I would need notes for that. Okay.

00:51:47:58 – 00:52:08:51
Agent Palmer
As you heard, Chris fell back into a sport he loved. He was reading about it so clearly, the love was still there. But he wasn’t in it. I don’t think it needs to be that drastic. I think you can just grow away or move away from sports we loved when we were younger. Because of time and circum stance, you know, because life happens.

00:52:08:55 – 00:52:26:31
Agent Palmer
But that doesn’t mean you can’t come back to it. It’s always there. If you had a favorite team when you were younger, you probably still have a favorite team. Now, as you may have heard over some previous episodes, I’m a baseball fan second, and a Baltimore Orioles fan first, but that wasn’t always the case. I mean, it was.

00:52:26:40 – 00:52:46:54
Agent Palmer
I was born and Orioles fan, but there was a time in my late teens and early 20s where I didn’t follow the team as I once did, or as I do now. Those things come and go, but there is a seed of fandom that, once planted, always remains. And that isn’t just for your favorite team. It can also be for your favorite sport.

00:52:46:59 – 00:53:10:47
Agent Palmer
So as Chris is now back roaming the sidelines on game day and in practice, and as I now watch all the baseball I can from Baltimore and really any teams that are on when I have the time, what have you lost touch with? And believe me when I tell you if it was a love back then, it isn’t that hard to remember what it meant to you and what it probably still means to you.

00:53:10:52 – 00:53:29:13
Agent Palmer
So pick up the ball, turn on the game, or just grab a ticket. You won’t be disappointed. And of course, cheer for the home team. Unless, of course, you grew up rooting for the visitors. And then of course, be true to your team. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 72. As a reminder, all links can be found in the show notes.

00:53:29:13 – 00:53:55:16
Agent Palmer
And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest coach Chris Clement at Coach C, Clement. That’s Coac C Clemente and this show at The Palmer Files. You can find more information about all of Chris’s research at Passes and patterns.blogspot.com.

00:53:55:21 – 00:54:08:49
Agent Palmer
Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.

00:54:08:54 – 00:54:22:07
Unknown
You.

00:54:22:12 – 00:54:28:48
Unknown
Need.

00:54:28:53 – 00:54:35:11
Unknown
To leave.

00:54:35:16 – 00:54:44:47
Unknown
Me.

00:54:44:51 – 00:54:51:15
Unknown
A c.

00:54:51:20 – 00:54:53:29
Agent Palmer
All right. Chris, do you have one final question for me?

00:54:53:40 – 00:54:58:34
Chris Clement
How did you get into watching Kffl? And who’s your team?

00:54:58:39 – 00:55:17:10
Agent Palmer
So I got into watching the Kffl because my father is a Baltimore Colts fan. And what that means is because the Colts left Baltimore. I grew up in a college football house.

00:55:17:15 – 00:55:20:21
Chris Clement
Until we got Tracy Ham and Mike Pringle.

00:55:20:26 – 00:55:55:01
Agent Palmer
Yeah, until the stallions. That’s correct. And and so, I think what happened was, well, there were a couple things around that time period, so it’s not quite all just the stallions are my introduction. The 91, 92 John Candy Argos with the rocket because he was from he went to high school near me in Pennsylvania. You got to follow that story from a very different angle.

00:55:55:01 – 00:56:27:19
Agent Palmer
And it’s like, what’s going on here? And I had family in Toronto, who were Argos fans. And so in the 90s and even, you know, when the stallions were here, you have a general concept of the CFL and it’s not until maybe 2016, 2017 when ESPN, especially on ESPN, to start showing a few CFL games here or there, and I reconnect with the league like it had already, it had always existed.

00:56:27:19 – 00:57:00:22
Agent Palmer
I just had no access to watching it. And also around this time, I was co-hosting a show called Our Liner Notes with a buddy of mine named Chris, who is from Penticton, and he’s a Elks fan, I guess I can say now, because that’s where he’s from and not where he’s living. And so we would joke and we would, you know, maybe jump on Skype and just, you know, watch games together.

00:57:00:26 – 00:57:17:13
Agent Palmer
Just because, you know, I’m on the other side of the continent from him, it’s not like we can just go down the street and hang out together and, you know, he’s like, you got to pick a team and say, I don’t need a pick a team. There’s like, there, it’s fine. I don’t need to pick a team.

00:57:17:13 – 00:57:38:01
Agent Palmer
And, I, we went through a couple seasons of this and he’s like, you have to pick a team and, you know, I have an aunt and uncle who have season tickets to the Argos. And it just so happened that it was a lot easier to watch Argos games because there, you know, when they’re on the East Coast, they’re in my time zone, right?

00:57:38:01 – 00:58:07:31
Agent Palmer
I mean, obviously they play throughout Canada. So I decided to choose the Argos as my favorite team, and I bought a hat the year before the pandemic, which they went like three and not like it was their worst year in a long time. And this was bad news for me because I’m an Orioles fan and they’ve been bad for decades.

00:58:07:31 – 00:58:38:27
Agent Palmer
And it’s like, oh, great, here we go again. But you know, last year they had a playoff run, which was nice. I, I, I have very different standards as an Orioles fan. When I choose a team anywhere else. Are you competitive? That’s all I’m looking for right. Every year it feels like I’m giving my one uncle 50 bucks, because the minimum bet I have for the Orioles is that they will finish 500 or better, and I end up losing that bet more often.

00:58:38:41 – 00:59:10:35
Agent Palmer
Then I win that bet. So my my standards for now. I’m an Argos fan, is not a are they going to win the Gray Cup. It’s are they going to be competitive that period. That’s it. And it’s one of the things that kind of has endeared the league to me as I followed it, even before I picked a team, is it felt like everybody has a chance, like maybe not everybody has a chance to win, but everybody has that little chance to at least make the playoffs and make a run.

00:59:10:40 – 00:59:26:04
Agent Palmer
And I understand part of that because it’s a smaller league. But in a nutshell, that is my story. And, you know, the the Argos was also, you know, my real name’s Jason. It was like, well, who else am I going to pick, right. Like I’ll pick okay.

00:59:26:04 – 00:59:34:05
Chris Clement
Not okay. I mean, as much as picking Toronto and anything is sort of a sin, I can I can get behind that.

00:59:34:09 – 00:59:44:12
Agent Palmer
No, I’m very aware that, I basically picked the Yankees or the Duke Blue Devils or the Lakers of the CFL. Kind of.

00:59:44:17 – 00:59:52:05
Chris Clement
I mean, Toronto doesn’t have that much success behind it, but it’s got that Toronto nice to it that I.

00:59:52:10 – 01:00:11:25
Agent Palmer
All right. But you know the it I’m always confused by this because you only have one NBA team and it felt like the end. But but and they are a Toronto team like the Raptors are a Toronto team. But yet when they made that run every Canadian I knew from the east coast to the West Coast.

01:00:11:25 – 01:00:24:18
Chris Clement
Fun, that was fun. That’s just Toronto is a city. I mean, I don’t hate Toronto, but there’s, you know, there’s a certain, indescribable quality to it that everyone who’s not from Toronto can.

01:00:24:23 – 01:00:41:49
Agent Palmer
Can feel that I, I, I mean, I can understand that. I also find it interesting that, like all of the CFL fans that I run into, that, like any other team are like, well, but the Argos get no support. What are you doing?

01:00:41:53 – 01:00:46:36
Chris Clement
Someone’s got to do it. Yeah. It’s like you’re adopting the three legged dog.

01:00:46:43 – 01:01:09:57
Agent Palmer
I that I yeah. You know, I get I guess I am it’s it’s fine though because like I’ve, I’m still following it from afar. It’s not like I’m checking up on the team daily, although I don’t have I still don’t have an NFL team. Right. Like, I, I have a few Division one college football teams that I follow here and there, but like it doesn’t change my view.

01:01:09:57 – 01:01:35:09
Agent Palmer
Like I’ll still watch the, you know, the riders in the bombers play, see, you know, a week two game I like I, I still like it. I will watch the league regardless of whether the Argos are playing. Because I enjoy the league. I think, you know, one of the things about being a fan of the league first was that, like, I just fell in love with the sport.

01:01:35:09 – 01:02:17:37
Agent Palmer
Now, I always unfairly pepper Canadians that I find that will talk to me about the CFL, about like, how can people just wander around the league? Like how come like this guy’s on his seventh team in five years? Like, what is it that like? And look, what is it that of all the things that you could have imported from the States, you had to take free agency where, like, nobody stays around the NBA, the NFL, MLB, you know, even now, NCAA with the quote unquote transfer portal, nobody stays anywhere for very long.

01:02:17:37 – 01:02:24:47
Agent Palmer
And it feels like the CFL took that and went, we can do that on steroids, because it feels like every offseason I’m reading like.

01:02:24:54 – 01:02:25:12
Chris Clement
Yeah.

01:02:25:17 – 01:02:28:50
Agent Palmer
Well, there’s 15 different quarterbacks in different places now.

01:02:28:55 – 01:02:51:29
Chris Clement
That’s a structural issue with the league, CBA and salary cap that basically it incentivizes everyone to be on one year deals. It incentivizes teams to give one year deals and one players to give one year deals. And then, you know, every year teams will have, you know, most of their roster will be coming up for free agency.

01:02:51:29 – 01:03:21:11
Chris Clement
And then, you know, they’ll they’ll resign most of them. But it’s still creates a ton of roster churn. It’s a problem for the league, especially for a league that has traditionally really relied on those guys that that, get stuck into their city and their local culture, with, with a local or oftentimes an endearing and endearing part of the CFL, at least to me, and I think to a lot of people is Americans who are from like the Deep South or something.

01:03:21:16 – 01:03:40:19
Chris Clement
Who, who really buy in and stay in the offseason and commit to the local culture. And that’s historically great. And it’s harder to find, when there’s so much, so much roster churn. It’s known. I don’t know what the solution is.

01:03:40:24 – 01:04:07:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, it’s probably just a I mean, look, baseball almost had a full strike on the CBA, and hockey and the NBA always run until the 11th hour, too. Even just a even just re-up an existing poor one. So I feel like generally speaking, the sports landscape there’s going to be one great lawyer out there who’s just going to be like, I’m going to take this pro bono and fix all your cbas.

01:04:07:42 – 01:04:21:27
Agent Palmer
But like competitive balance is an issue, and I understand that, you know, I will say the one thing that the CFL has maybe more than most leagues is parity, right? Like you might get outspent.

01:04:21:41 – 01:04:22:19
Chris Clement
But the other.

01:04:22:26 – 01:04:35:38
Agent Palmer
Well, you you might get outspent. But at the same time, the restrictions on international players and, desig nated players kind of changing it levels the, the, the landscape a little bit.

01:04:35:43 – 01:04:59:37
Chris Clement
Yeah. And there’s so much roster, Sean, that, you know, if you guys had a one year deal, if a lot of guys want one year deals, it tends to smooth out the, the talent distribution pretty quickly. Yeah. So that’s good. You know, teams, most programs over the last few years have struggled to be really great or or consistently terrible.

01:04:59:42 – 01:05:28:03
Chris Clement
Winnipeg’s obviously been a model of with consistency in that time. And I think that’s, that’s a credit to the Canadian mafia. But they have their. Yeah. Who, you know, they, they’re, they’re just organized. They just have it together. They manage their Canadian talent. Well, they, they allocate their salary cap pretty well. And they do what they can to keep local talent, but they won’t break the bank for it.

01:05:28:08 – 01:05:34:54
Chris Clement
It’s all stability and a clear plan and a good plan that’s that gets you most of the way there.

01:05:34:54 – 01:05:37:31
Agent Palmer
And that’ll get you most of the way there in almost any league.

01:05:37:42 – 01:05:40:45
Chris Clement
Yeah. Oh yeah. As we have discussed. Yep.

–End Transcription–

This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).