Episode 69 features Jennifer Montgomery, who is not only a connoisseur of coffee but founded a company named 40 Cups of Coffee.
We discuss how 40 Cups came to be, networking with a purpose, career transitions, being present, embracing the things we don’t know, defining success, being exceptional, and much much more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Coffee
- 40 Cups
- Networking vs. Networking with Purpose
- Career Transitions
- Work Live Balance
- Self Evaluation
- Every coffee has a lesson
- Self-accountability
- Coffee as a metaphor
- Buzzword soup
- Relationship building
- Defining success
- Change
- Generational career trajectories
- Failure
- “I don’t know”
- Being present
- Measuring ability
- Being exceptional
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:23:06
Agent Palmer
Previously on agent Palmer dot com. Canada is a country so nice. Douglas Copeland wrote about it twice. Apollo ten and a half is pure rotoscoped moon movie magic, and I’ve never seen Khan and Luke Cage in the same place, so perhaps they are the same. This is The Palmer Files, episode 69 with Jennifer Montgomery, who is not only a connoisseur of coffee, but founded a company named 40 Cups of Coffee.
00:00:23:19 – 00:01:08:20
Agent Palmer
We discuss how 40 cups came to be, networking with purpose, career transitions, being present, embracing the things we don’t know, defining success, being exceptional and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:08:25 – 00:01:38:33
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 69th episode is Jennifer Montgomery. She is the founder of 40 Cups of Coffee and a managing partner at Blue Door Group. This conversation is for everyone. If you’re in a job you like, if you’re in a job you don’t like, if you don’t have a job, if you’re in school, if you’re retired, no matter where you are in your career path or transition or what have you, this conversation is important.
00:01:38:37 – 00:02:01:22
Agent Palmer
We discuss networking with purpose and to that end, using coffee as a metaphor. You’ll hear more buzzwords than you can shake a stick at, but with good reason. And of course, we’ll tackle some tough things, such as the concept that self-evaluation is an ongoing process. And to that end, your answers today won’t necessarily be your answers tomorrow. All of that and so much more is coming your way.
00:02:01:24 – 00:02:28:32
Agent Palmer
But first, if you want to discuss the episode as you listener, afterwards you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest, Jennifer Montgomery at 40 cups of coffee. That’s four zero cups of coffee. Or this show at the Palmer Files. You can find more information about Jennifer and 40 cups at Blue Door Group. Okay. And don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and ratings on the Agent palmer.com and of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com.
00:02:28:37 – 00:02:40:28
Agent Palmer
So without further ado, grab yourself a cup of coffee and let’s get going.
00:02:40:32 – 00:03:18:12
Agent Palmer
Jennifer. The blog is named Agent palmer.com and on the blog I did a series about coffee a long time ago, and I always joke that for whether it’s podcasting or the blog, that my number one inspiration and fuel and hydration is coffee, like, coffee is everything. Without coffee, there is no blog. Without coffee, there’s no podcast. And I bring it up because if I really thought about it, maybe I would have thought of like a more coffee themed name than Agent Palmer or The Palmer Files, but I didn’t.
00:03:18:16 – 00:03:39:48
Agent Palmer
And I look, I’m happy with my branding, but you are branding as 40 Cups of coffee, which is just. I mean, I love it, I love the name you you, you have me at the name and I just want to start off by asking, is that a day or a week?
00:03:39:53 – 00:03:50:17
Jennifer Montgomery
That depends. Sometimes it’s a day, sometimes it’s a week. But I like you’re like, you almost went to Jerry Maguire there if you had me at coffee. I mean, I think that’s going to make it to the Instagram next week.
00:03:50:31 – 00:03:55:32
Agent Palmer
Okay. I mean, I’m all right. I’ll. I’ll pull it out. I’ll give it to you in post. And I just.
00:03:55:37 – 00:03:56:29
Jennifer Montgomery
I’ll quote you.
00:03:56:29 – 00:03:57:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:57:32 – 00:03:58:55
Jennifer Montgomery
Yeah. Love it.
00:03:58:58 – 00:04:02:23
Agent Palmer
So why 40 cups of coffee. Where where does that start?
00:04:02:25 – 00:04:24:52
Jennifer Montgomery
Well, it’s really funny. It kind of started as a joke. When I was kind of facing this extreme career transition. Not really sure what was going to be the next step in my life here. A friend had said, you know, you should meet this person. And, I said, okay, I’m open to that. And they said, okay, great.
00:04:24:52 – 00:04:43:14
Jennifer Montgomery
I’m going to send you an email. So they send the two of us an email and say, you know, here’s our intro. You know, the whole spiel. You could copy and paste that privately now from everyone you know. Yeah. And, great. We we met for coffee and chatted and, had a really, really, really wonderful conversation and a deep conversation.
00:04:43:16 – 00:05:02:29
Jennifer Montgomery
He asked me some really challenging questions. Not like personal, but from a professional perspective, kind of like where my personal drive was and where my goals were professionally. And, it was much more than I had expected to get out of just this, you know, intro coffee meet.
00:05:02:34 – 00:05:08:02
Agent Palmer
Well, okay, so here’s I have a I have a couple quick first off. Yeah. How long ago was this?
00:05:08:07 – 00:05:11:57
Jennifer Montgomery
4 or 5 years ago. Maybe four, four years ago, I think.
00:05:11:59 – 00:05:36:43
Agent Palmer
Okay. Because. Because I feel like having just done a not extreme career transition, but a career transition, I feel like every day I wake up with different answers to what those questions like, what those like, what drives you? Where do you want to be? Where are you going? What do you want to do? What do you want to create?
00:05:36:44 – 00:05:59:48
Agent Palmer
Who do you want to help? I feel like on a daily basis, you and I could have a cup of coffee. Seven days of the week. And, you know, there might be some themes. Okay, there might be some themes, but overall, I’m in a space where, like, self-evaluation means that I’m changing my answers every time I think of those questions.
00:05:59:52 – 00:06:05:36
Agent Palmer
So I’m not going to ask you for your answers back then. But have they changed?
00:06:05:41 – 00:06:28:24
Jennifer Montgomery
Yes. I think that’s a great perspective. And I think that’s something that we’ve learned along the way. So, you know, the number 40 was quite random in a, in the sense that it just rolled off the tongue when we joked about it. And my business partner Stephanie, I and at our first meeting, she was, you know, one of these kind of well, he, he introduced me to two more people, and they introduced me to two more people.
00:06:28:24 – 00:06:47:00
Jennifer Montgomery
And, you know, 40 cups later, Stephanie and I meet, and, you know, we hit it off as this great kind of moment, this synergy, you know, like, okay, like, you know, like when you find your person, it was like finding your person, but like your business version of your person. Yeah. And, you know, maybe like a little Gray’s Anatomy there.
00:06:47:03 – 00:07:10:33
Jennifer Montgomery
I mean, like a little Sandra Oh kind of moment. And, and we jokingly just said, oh my gosh, I think I had 40 cups of coffee. And, you know, it wasn’t as precise number. We weren’t literally keeping track. But it was kind of this generic ballpark term that was somewhat accurate of how long it took us to find each other in this process of, you know, two coffees, three coffees a week, maybe more.
00:07:10:38 – 00:07:34:55
Jennifer Montgomery
And, and so it just kind of rolled off the tongue initially, but it, it was, it was really powerful. And it’s like we almost we talk about almost feeling it in the moment is that we had hit something, you know, like we had we’d struck gold that we didn’t know we were looking for. And, and so yeah, that’s, that’s I guess what I thought I was looking for at that time was a job.
00:07:35:00 – 00:07:48:24
Jennifer Montgomery
I thought I was on a job hunt. That was my goal. That was my mission, was to find the next great job, the next great career move, working for someone else. And I think that that has changed drastically.
00:07:48:25 – 00:08:10:25
Agent Palmer
Well, you know, a few episodes ago I had my current boss on and I met her through networking and, you know, I’ve been networking during a pandemic, which means I’ve been networking. Not for a job, like. I mean, yeah, the goal of networking is to find a connection and eventually get a job. And that actually did work out for me.
00:08:10:31 – 00:08:35:31
Agent Palmer
However, you don’t actually think that that’s going to happen in that kind of a way. And you’re just meeting people to meet people and to like, expand the network, which is where networking really comes in. Right? And to me, you know, it’s a pandemic and I don’t want to be limited to my low cal. Right, because it limits my prospects.
00:08:35:36 – 00:08:56:15
Agent Palmer
There might be somebody somewhere else. So it’s it’s a digital cup of coffee, you know, whatever. And in listening to you, a cup of coffee is a meeting, right? It’s a it’s a it’s a phone call. It’s a insert thing here. It’s, what, 20 years ago would have definitely been. Let’s go have a cup of coffee.
00:08:56:20 – 00:09:17:52
Agent Palmer
And now. No, just call my cell phone, which is now turned into. Oh, let’s jump on a video call of some kind, right? Yeah. I need to get back it. I like I I’m really bad at maintaining the networking through employment. I only ever seem to do it when I’m looking. And I realize that by then it’s too late.
00:09:17:57 – 00:09:50:44
Agent Palmer
Like, you might be able to fill in the gaps a bit more quicker if you were networking all along. Right? And and I like it. It’s weird. It’s like, I know I should drink more water, but I don’t, right? I just like it’s one of those things. But I will say one of the exciting things about networking, it’s kind of the reason I enjoy doing this podcast is I get to talk to and get confronted by new questions, new paradigms, new information.
00:09:50:49 – 00:10:18:19
Agent Palmer
And what what I find fascinating is I decided to challenge my networking, meeting other side, I don’t know, networking people. My my connections, my new connections. About a year and a half ago, which is how I met my current boss because I started, you know, at the end of every network, this is universe. So, you know, oh, you know, if it goes well.
00:10:18:24 – 00:10:34:51
Agent Palmer
Oh, thanks, Jan. It was nice meeting you. If there’s ever anything I can do for you, let me know. I started calling people on that the moment they said it. I would just I would end every call with, if you happen to have 1 or 2 names of somebody else I could talk to, that was it. That’s eventually how I met my boss.
00:10:34:56 – 00:10:48:53
Agent Palmer
And I think it took people aback because I don’t I don’t want to be mean, but I know a lot of that, you know, if there’s ever anything I can do is a mostly empty gesture, right? It’s mostly just posturing.
00:10:48:58 – 00:11:12:53
Jennifer Montgomery
That’s interesting. That’s a really interesting perspective. And, you know, as we were talking about kind of before this, you know, we were talking about kind of being from slightly different places, where I live and where I am from here and Atlantic Canada, it’s very much your professional growth is very much connected to the who, you know. And so network is becoming like this really, really powerful.
00:11:12:53 – 00:11:21:34
Jennifer Montgomery
You know, it’s it’s it’s a powerful tool in your toolbox to achieve what you want to achieve professionally if you are intending to grow in this particular geography.
00:11:21:45 – 00:11:22:08
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:11:22:12 – 00:11:45:05
Jennifer Montgomery
But I like what you said about, you know, this piece about networking and giving it up and using it as a job hunting tool. Because I think for me, at the beginning, that’s what 40 cups was. And it wasn’t even 40 cups, it was literally one cup. And I hadn’t even named it. But I think that that’s the journey that we’ve learned about with coffee and all with, you know, every coffee has a lesson.
00:11:45:09 – 00:12:09:10
Jennifer Montgomery
Yeah. And then those lessons are what informs our perspectives, what makes us change. It’s what makes us grow. All of those great things that that happened to us. And I think that networking with purpose is, is that piece that we really focus on teaching people really is that what you were doing? And asking for two more coffees is a central piece of what we feel made us successful.
00:12:09:21 – 00:12:29:24
Jennifer Montgomery
And so we’ve actually even created, you know, a free download that people can use like a little worksheet to help you create that purpose, to help you stay accountable to yourself, to say, who did I ask? And then follow up with them? Kind of, you know, a very, a very rudimentary form of your own, journaling or personal CRM, if you will.
00:12:29:24 – 00:12:57:43
Jennifer Montgomery
But, you know, when you connect your networking to purpose, that purpose can mean different things. For us, coffee is the metaphor. It’s about connecting with people. It’s about inspiring each other. It’s about growing. And what those things can mean for each of us can be very, very different. And when you mentioned, you know, kind of having this digital coffee, the first time you said that I actually had like this NFT picture in my head, like, oh, you know, like someone who’s a real digital coffee guy, right.
00:12:57:48 – 00:13:16:55
Jennifer Montgomery
But, you know, when the pandemic kind of really shut us down, and for, for me, that was March 2020, I think that was for most most of us in in North America was March, you know, we we had this idea, we had this 40 cups. We had been rolling it around for a while. We were like, this is fun to say, but what does it really mean?
00:13:17:01 – 00:13:34:53
Jennifer Montgomery
You know what? What’s our method? What did we do that made a successful that’s really deep dive. And, you know, take an analysis of what we did that we feel made us successful. And can we turn that into something we can teach people. And we were working on that when, when the pandemic kind of shut us all down.
00:13:34:58 – 00:13:51:11
Jennifer Montgomery
And so we just said, okay, well, we have this, let’s use it. Let’s use it for good. You know, our friends were losing their businesses, some of them very big and profitable businesses. And all of a sudden they were gone. I mean, we’ve all lived that. We all know what happened. And and so for us, it was really a karma offering.
00:13:51:20 – 00:14:09:13
Jennifer Montgomery
It was, you know, something that has always been important to us is, you know, in our in our other life, in our job at blue, our group is to, you know, always have that karma client, that person that you mentor or support or promote because it’s the right thing to do, because you want to see others succeed, because you want to help small business.
00:14:09:13 – 00:14:29:57
Jennifer Montgomery
But this kind of became our karma offering to the whole group of everyone to say, we’re going to host it, we’re going to use our network, we’re going to introduce you all to our network, and hopefully we’re going to help each other get through this, whether it’s just having a cup of coffee so you don’t feel alone because you’re in your own apartment, or whether it’s because you need an hour away from your kids.
00:14:30:01 – 00:14:56:08
Agent Palmer
So my question to you then, is I am happily employed right now, and I need to get back out on the networking trail just to, you know, keep it going, you know, just to to finally do what I know I’m supposed to do, which is to keep meeting people, but I don’t know if I have a purpose. I mean, I mean, I guess so how about this, I will ask you, this is just meeting people.
00:14:56:08 – 00:15:19:05
Agent Palmer
Enough of a purpose, or do I need something? Maybe not to the level of I’m looking for my next job, that because that wouldn’t be actually accurate. But you know, I’m looking for, you know, do I need to have a more concrete purpose, like I’m trying to, I don’t know, learn something specific or I’m trying to, you know, maybe find a mentor, right.
00:15:19:19 – 00:15:59:09
Agent Palmer
Because, I mean, I look up to a lot of people. I wouldn’t say I actually have a mentor right now. Right. So I just that we’ll get to mentorship. But, like, as far as purpose, like, should I find one or is just meeting people, right. A blanket. Yeah. Because this is the other thing I will say as a preface to this question that I’ve already spent forever asking is there have been there were a couple networking calls I had over the last few years where either in setting up the call or in the email exchange run up, people would come out and just be like, what are you looking to get out of
00:15:59:09 – 00:16:21:34
Agent Palmer
this? I’m like stone faced. I’m like, I want to talk to you like you have some information that may be good for me. I always hesitated at, like, I’m looking for a job because at a certain point it became apparent like, oh, this is a lot of people. I should just. Okay, okay. If if there’s an opportunity, I’ll find it.
00:16:21:34 – 00:16:37:52
Agent Palmer
I don’t need to be like, oh, no, I’m just talking to you because you might have a job. Like it was just like, oh, no, you mean, you know, I’m, I don’t know, I want to tell you what I’m good at, and I want you to. Maybe. But none of that’s real purpose, right? That’s just. Hey, let’s grab a cup of coffee.
00:16:37:54 – 00:16:41:41
Agent Palmer
You know, it goes back to that initial thing. Do I need a purpose?
00:16:41:46 – 00:17:09:08
Jennifer Montgomery
I think you do. And the reason I say that, and I’m not talking, you know, big, big picture purpose, meaning of life. Purpose. Right? But networking is all about building relationships, right? It’s right. It has to be reciprocal if it’s going to be successful. So, you know, I think a lot of people make the mistake of associating the word networking with sales or pitching or job offers, but I think networking can be so much more.
00:17:09:10 – 00:17:28:37
Jennifer Montgomery
Right? Like, you know, there’s the kitschy terms around, you know, whether or not you’re going to that your network is your net worth. And you can argue about that till the cows come home. I’m sure. But, you know, I, I do think that there is some value to that statement that your network is important to you. It’s important to the relationships you build.
00:17:28:42 – 00:17:45:13
Jennifer Montgomery
I mean, I’ve had coffee meetups where I just said, oh, I like I just think you’re a cool person. And, I like what I see what you’re doing online, and I know six other people who think you’re a cool person do. So you know, how many new friends are you making as grown ups, right? It’s like it’s it’s just it’s harder to do.
00:17:45:13 – 00:18:07:51
Jennifer Montgomery
So I think there’s a great opportunity there just to build relationships with people, make new friends. There is the learning component. There’s always the job component. And I think sometimes, you know, what is going to come out of that coffee and sometimes you don’t. But when you go in with purpose and with intent, you’re going to come out with a result.
00:18:07:51 – 00:18:15:22
Jennifer Montgomery
And I always like to tell people that sometimes a know is just as important a result as, hey, you’re my new best friend.
00:18:15:24 – 00:18:37:03
Agent Palmer
Sure. Yeah, I can see that because I look back at my seven years in retail and, you know, I have no ill will towards the people that were like assistant managers and, like, making a career out of it. But I did learn two things. I learned a lot about how not to do things. But I also learned that I never want to be a manager.
00:18:37:07 – 00:19:00:56
Agent Palmer
And that’s not I mean, it’s not entirely that I never want to be a manager of people. I don’t mind being a project manager. I can be a producer. Like, I can be a, you know, an employee. I can I can follow the things and make sure, I don’t do so well managing people. But I’ve also seen how not to manage people, which is also how I know.
00:19:01:01 – 00:19:14:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah, those are some mistakes I would probably also make. Like, that’s not a thing, right? But I, I don’t mind a no. Right. Like I don’t mind a failure. Like as long as I’m because I know I’m going to learn from it. Yeah.
00:19:14:59 – 00:19:31:44
Jennifer Montgomery
Sometimes it’s a no is a win. Like I know you know, I’ve had clients who have said no, and I was really disappointed. I thought it was going to go. It was going to be a great, you know, plan or what have you. And then, you know, down the road you learn about, you know, how it went or what was going on behind the scenes, the things you didn’t know.
00:19:31:44 – 00:19:35:02
Jennifer Montgomery
And you go like you really escaped that one.
00:19:35:07 – 00:20:05:12
Agent Palmer
I mean, I will say, for every thing that’s gone on in the last little bit, I realized that most people only see the face value, and I’m okay with any answer. And I think look, as a hobby, podcasting is not like, like it’s great for me. I know it’s not like great for everybody, right? But it also means I’m going to get rejected.
00:20:05:21 – 00:20:31:26
Agent Palmer
But the entire premise of my show is that I am going to talk to someone, and I have to ask those someone’s right. Like I’ve gotten no’s, but I also can’t get a yes if I don’t ask. And it’s kind of been very weird because there’s very little distinction between, hey Jen, do you want to come on my podcast?
00:20:31:26 – 00:21:00:16
Agent Palmer
And hey Jen, do you want to just jump on a call and have a networking session like, I understand that the conversation is different, and obviously the purpose is that I’m going to share this with the world and and you know, that going in. But the ask is absolutely the same, because a lot of the time, and even if we’re introduced by someone, by a third party, I still have to ask or, you know, there’s still a thing like, hey, Jen, do you want to go for coffee?
00:21:00:23 – 00:21:12:40
Agent Palmer
Hey, Jen, do you want to be on my podcast? Like, it’s the same thing? And I, I know that I, I got to get it out of my head that they’re not the same. They’re similar because, like.
00:21:12:40 – 00:21:34:22
Jennifer Montgomery
It’s so interesting that you say that because I almost see those as the inverse. Because to me, so I talk a lot, about having a give and having an ask. Okay. I’m really important, but I think I see them almost the opposite as you’re expressing that, because to me, when you are saying you’re have you have an ask, you’re saying, hey, come on, my podcast, that’s actually a give.
00:21:34:31 – 00:21:59:47
Jennifer Montgomery
You’re providing value. You’re providing value to the audience who wants to listen, who wants to grow, who wants to learn new things here? Other people, you know, my goodness, there’s a whole group of there’s a whole bunch of people. They’re into these podcasts. They’re everywhere. Right? So that’s providing value, whether it’s entertainment or what have you. You’re providing value to me in my network by sharing 40 Cups story and the opportunity for other people to join our network in our community.
00:22:00:00 – 00:22:19:39
Jennifer Montgomery
I think that’s a give, and I think that’s a superpower. And I think, you know, when we think start thinking about, you know, the give and the ask. And instead of leading with the ask, we shift our thinking to leading with our give. Then networking becomes purposeful in that we are always seeking to provide value.
00:22:19:54 – 00:22:38:00
Agent Palmer
Okay, okay. I mean, because look, I you’re still talking to a guy who’s got a job he likes and still doesn’t know what he wants to do, right? Sure. And if you know, I, I keep coming back to this because, you know, often I ask people what they do, and often they ask me what I want to do because it’s fair.
00:22:38:01 – 00:22:56:40
Agent Palmer
You know, fair is fair. Like I can’t be like, oh, you know, what’s your thing? And I’m not going to tell you mine. But, you know, I’ve gotten to a point where I know I want to help people make cool things, but I don’t want to necessarily make the cool thing myself. So we’re talking about what a lot of key words, right?
00:22:56:40 – 00:23:40:28
Agent Palmer
Consulting coaching counselor. We’re also talking about like in other industries, we’re talking about producing, editing, directing maybe. So we’re talking about these kind of things. But for the listening audience, for you, for me, as I listed all those things, how many different mediums, media, how many different projects, how many different anything just went through your head. And obviously, you know, if you’re a a big television watcher, like you’re thinking, oh, he could do a series or a movie watcher, you’re like, oh, he’s going to air a movie or, you know, a podcast listener, a music listener, a up a writer, like, you know, there’s no end to the possibilities there.
00:23:40:32 – 00:24:03:13
Agent Palmer
It’s a little overwhelming, I’ll be honest. But I have gotten to the point where I do just want to facilitate. I’m just going to come up with, oh, let me hold on. Let’s see how many more buzzwords I can get out. Right? Like it feels that way sometimes. And I’m taking what I can write. I’ve I’ve helped publish a book, I’ve helped produce podcasts.
00:24:03:17 – 00:24:30:53
Agent Palmer
I’ve, I’ve helped launch websites and blogs and other brands and I’m, I’m working on a movie. So there I’ve dabbled a little bit in everything, and I haven’t found something I hate. Right? Other than I don’t want to manage people like so I, I still don’t have that answer. Don’t Jen don’t like I, I don’t know what I want to I, I have a general idea of kind kind of what I want to do.
00:24:30:53 – 00:24:50:53
Agent Palmer
So I guess I have a general idea of the kind of work I would like to do, but not who it’s with or what the end result is. And that’s kind of where I end up. Look, this is a breakthrough. I finally put it into words in less than two minutes. Right? But even though it’s rambling and I’ll listen back to this, I’ll probably keep this in.
00:24:50:53 – 00:25:13:07
Agent Palmer
But like, I’ll probably distill this down because one of the things that was the worst after I had been let go a few years ago was the people that were already in my network that you reach out to first, that you’re you’re not expanding the network, but you’re just kind of falling back into your network, I guess, especially when you’re in between jobs is.
00:25:13:07 – 00:25:33:30
Agent Palmer
Yes. What’s their first question? What do you want to do? Or where do you want to be? Yeah. And I can tell you, because some of these people were either close to me or like they had known me or knew of me, I frustrated a lot of people by saying, I don’t know, right. Like that was a thing.
00:25:33:41 – 00:25:44:11
Agent Palmer
And I had my big nine year job was a hybrid role, okay. Which was basically two jobs, but it was a hybrid role. It was it marketing?
00:25:44:15 – 00:25:44:37
Jennifer Montgomery
Yeah.
00:25:44:42 – 00:26:04:11
Agent Palmer
Well guess what? Everybody I talked to when I said, I don’t know, it was like, well, you know, there’s money in it, right? Well, I’ve never been motivated by money. And I guess not a lot of people knew that until I started getting out there because everybody was like, well, you should go into it. Well, I know, like, why no, I don’t want to.
00:26:04:24 – 00:26:28:33
Agent Palmer
No, no, I, I don’t mind problem solving when it occurs, but I don’t like being in surrounded by people’s problems all the time. No. Like, no, no thank you. And and I didn’t even but even the marketing I was like, I don’t know, you know, there’s pieces of it I like, I, you know, so I learned a lot by telling people, I don’t know.
00:26:28:33 – 00:26:45:47
Agent Palmer
And like literally destroying them inside because a lot of them were like, very close to me, like, it’s that close network stuff. So they they want to help. And so they’re, you know, they’re on the edge of their seat, you know, hey, what do you want to do? And they’re on the edge of their seat thinking like, okay, he just got out of this job.
00:26:45:54 – 00:26:54:44
Agent Palmer
I know this person in it. I know this person in marketing. And then I go, I don’t know. And they go, well, I can’t help you.
00:26:54:48 – 00:27:13:25
Jennifer Montgomery
But but we have we have gotten to this place in time where, you know, and from an education perspective, I used to talk about this a lot about you know, when I, when I worked at it when I was an educator at the senior high school level, you know, we would talk to youth about what they were going to do and how what university they were going to go to.
00:27:13:25 – 00:27:34:47
Jennifer Montgomery
And and I think never before have we been in a place where there are so many jobs and roles and different fancy titles that you could find. Now, no one could possibly know everything that they would ever want to do because the options are now endless, you know? Whereas when you were younger, you kind of had ten options.
00:27:34:47 – 00:27:49:50
Jennifer Montgomery
You know, you were you were a nurse, you know, and and they were even like divided by gender roles too, you know, like in the old days, you know, like, I mean, even when I was growing up, you know, was very much about and get the quote unquote good job. And that meant you worked Monday to Friday. Yeah.
00:27:49:52 – 00:28:12:17
Jennifer Montgomery
You work 9 to 5. It meant you had a pension. It meant you worked for either a gigantic organization or a government entity. And I think that’s changed so much. So, you know, I love what you’re talking about, saying, you know, like, I like to do all of these things. And I can imagine my day looking in all of these different ways that would, you know, make me happy, you know, content for sure, but maybe even really happy.
00:28:12:20 – 00:28:27:52
Jennifer Montgomery
But is it going to make me happy to go back to the beginning of our conversation? Is it going to make me happy forever, or is that my next 40 cups? Right? Like as I keep drinking the coffee and we’re going to keep learning about myself and growing and and I don’t think that’s the secret sauce for everyone.
00:28:27:52 – 00:28:52:52
Jennifer Montgomery
I don’t think everyone’s going to want to, you know, try a latte today and, you know, an Americano tomorrow. There’s going to be the people who are always going to drink. In Canada, we would call it a double double. But that’s okay too. But I think we have to start recognizing that, you know, this idea of finding what you’re passionate about and making your job, and you’ll never work a day in your life like, this is a big misnomer.
00:28:53:04 – 00:29:06:17
Jennifer Montgomery
You know, like what you’re passionate about today could change. There are parts of your job, no matter what it is, that you’re going to hate. If you make your hobby your job, you may no longer love your hobby. I’ve seen that happen to you.
00:29:06:24 – 00:29:30:41
Agent Palmer
That one of the themes of this podcast has always been the, a small undercurrent of, like, would I take money to do this? Right? Because, you know, then I, you know, obviously I’m not independently wealthy, so it’s not my money. So it’s somebody else’s money. And how does that change the show? And what influence do they want to observe over me?
00:29:30:46 – 00:29:59:09
Agent Palmer
My, my number one example is always going back to Chris Hardwick selling Nerdist because it was something he built and something he was passionate about, and obviously he was in charge of it when it grew into from just a blog, into a podcast, and then into, you know, other mediums. I still can hear the sadness of him leaving Nerdist because it was no longer his, like he was the founder of it.
00:29:59:22 – 00:30:18:15
Agent Palmer
It was no longer his right. It’s it’s what happens when startups grow up. And then you go, all right, well, I guess the, the, the founders aren’t there anymore. And why is that? Because it’s not the founders thing anymore. And yeah, I know I worked in retail for seven years and then I had a job for nine. Okay.
00:30:18:20 – 00:30:41:34
Agent Palmer
I had two jobs post college, even though one was retail, two jobs post college. In a time where most of my contemporaries had seven jobs, I had two jobs in 16 years right? Most people had like five, seven, 3 or 4. But like, you know, me being like, oh, I still work here. Oh, I still work in retail.
00:30:41:34 – 00:31:14:32
Agent Palmer
Oh, I still work in retail. Same place. And then, oh, I’m still at this nonprofit and I’m still at this, you know, I was the oddball. I mean, now since then, not so much like the, the odds of definitely the average. I have averaged out a little bit, but, you know, I do think that that change matters. And the thing I can say without a shadow of a doubt is you don’t wake up the next day from tragedy, like it doesn’t have to be.
00:31:14:32 – 00:31:34:26
Agent Palmer
My mom died. I woke up the next day and decided I want to do something else or I lost my job. I woke up, I wanted to do something else. I didn’t get the promotion. My team lost the World Series. You know, my girlfriend dumped me. My boyfriend dumped me. You know it. My best friend moved away like I spilled coffee on my sleep.
00:31:34:27 – 00:31:35:38
Agent Palmer
It don’t. You can.
00:31:35:45 – 00:31:38:09
Jennifer Montgomery
Okay. Hold on. That’s too far now. Okay?
00:31:38:14 – 00:32:11:54
Agent Palmer
But like you, you can wake up tomorrow with a different mission, a different ambition, and there is no rhyme or reason. And you know, this podcast is not me putting on a persona. I’m a very excitable person. And one of the things that kind of helped me formulate the whole buzzword soup that I went through not too long ago in this episode is I found myself getting excited at certain things, and that was helping people, period.
00:32:11:59 – 00:32:37:28
Agent Palmer
Like full stop. Right? Helping them do what, what do they need help with? Right. Like, that’s that’s my next question. But it also means that I’m going to wake up tomorrow and maybe I want to do something else, but I still want to help people. Right. And so that’s been fun. But I gotta say, like, my parents grew up with parents that had one job.
00:32:37:33 – 00:32:37:51
Jennifer Montgomery
Right?
00:32:38:05 – 00:33:06:24
Agent Palmer
I grew up with parents that had a couple jobs. You were going to change maybe 1 or 2 times, but for the most part, you stayed within your industry. Absolutely. Now I’m in a generation. Technically, I’m in a shoulder generation. I get into this all the time. I’m not millennial and I’m not Gen X, but whatever. But like you look at generation X, they not only had multiple jobs like the baby boomers, they had multiple industries.
00:33:06:24 – 00:33:19:54
Agent Palmer
They they had multiple jobs across industries. They changed. They were the first ones to go, all right, well, I’m I, I’m not an accountant anymore. So now what am I going to do. And they didn’t immediately just go I’m going to be an accountant somewhere else. Right.
00:33:20:04 – 00:33:37:00
Jennifer Montgomery
But Gen X, we did this weird thing in Gen X where we did it like at the end, right? Like we all did it at mid-career, right? Like that’s what that’s what we did. We were like, oh shit. Mid career I better, you know like get off the pot here, make a change. Do something. Now you’re never going to die.
00:33:37:00 – 00:33:51:38
Jennifer Montgomery
Like and you’re going like, well you’re in your 40s. So you know it was really, really bizarre. We weren’t we weren’t inspired and encouraged rigid to accept failure to.
00:33:51:40 – 00:33:52:07
Agent Palmer
Know.
00:33:52:07 – 00:34:11:36
Jennifer Montgomery
Face fear, to embrace uncertainty that was not okay. So I, you know, so now we’re getting to that kind of this mid career where well, you know, you’re going to either step up the ladder or you’re not. And if you’re not then what are you going to do. You feel like you’re kind of like in this last abyss that was never your trajectory.
00:34:11:41 – 00:34:30:01
Jennifer Montgomery
You know, and and so there’s like this big kind of question that comes up of, well, now what? Whereas, you know, now we’ve seen kind of, you know, the millennials I don’t like to use these terms all the time, but I guess it does kind of give us a frame of reference that everybody understands. I know they did do this.
00:34:30:01 – 00:34:47:55
Jennifer Montgomery
They learned to do it early, and they are climbing the corporate ladders faster than ever before because they’ve learned so many things so early in their career, whereas we kind of came out of the gate saying, well, I’ve got my university degree, where’s my six figure salary?
00:34:48:00 – 00:35:24:00
Agent Palmer
Right. Well, and I think the other piece of it is, the quote unquote geeks inheriting the Earth, look, speaking as one, we’ve dealt with failure a lot more in those early adolescent years than, say, the popular kids. Right. And even, you know, the and I was lucky enough or unlucky enough, I mean, unlucky enough at the moment back in that time to be, in band and, just normal geek and, sports like runner.
00:35:24:03 – 00:35:50:08
Agent Palmer
So I kind of got the failure from all the different places, because normally the only time those A-type high school personalities fail is as an athlete. It’s it’s on the court, it’s on the field, it’s on the pitch. It’s what, you know, on the ice, wherever you are. Some of us failed many times in many other places. So when we got there, it wasn’t unfamiliar territory.
00:35:50:11 – 00:35:50:37
Jennifer Montgomery
Right?
00:35:50:37 – 00:36:21:55
Agent Palmer
But we don’t know where to go next. Like that’s the thing. And and I the it comes up a lot in conversations both on this podcast and I that I have in general of people my age and slightly older, especially Gen X, we went to college, university, post-secondary because we were supposed to. It’s what we did right. Like there was never a path for, well, you could just learn a skill.
00:36:21:59 – 00:36:26:35
Agent Palmer
I mean, kind of. But you still did that in a post-secondary technical school for two.
00:36:26:35 – 00:36:27:45
Jennifer Montgomery
Years, right?
00:36:27:50 – 00:36:37:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You know, graduation day was always what’s next? Not what are you going to do? And what’s next was always more education.
00:36:37:56 – 00:36:38:52
Jennifer Montgomery
Absolutely.
00:36:38:55 – 00:37:02:08
Agent Palmer
And and so that’s how you end up with me with a liberal arts, AA and communications bachelor’s because. Well, those are two degrees you get when you don’t know what you want to do. Like. And I don’t mean I don’t like, I don’t have any ill will towards that. But I look back and I go those two degrees I have because I had no idea.
00:37:02:13 – 00:37:22:26
Agent Palmer
Like we’ve spent a half hour talking about how I didn’t know and still kind of don’t know what I want to do those degrees would have. Like, in hindsight, those degrees tell me that, right? If I had majored in English. Oh, you want to be a writer? Like maybe you’re not good at it, but you want to be a writer.
00:37:22:26 – 00:37:47:22
Agent Palmer
Like it. Or, you know, mass media. Oh, you want to be a journalist or you want to be on TV or, you know, there are things, but I am like, how much more general can you get? Liberal arts? Not any not not just liberal arts. Right. And communications. Okay. I’m interested in philosophy and I’d like to talk to people like.
00:37:47:28 – 00:37:51:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah. How general can you be right. Like.
00:37:51:16 – 00:38:04:02
Jennifer Montgomery
Okay. But it goes back to that idea about like, well, what do you like to do? Right. Like, so, you know, and like, kids are kids, right? You know, you’re 17 years old, you’re like, well, what do you like to do? You’re like, well, I like to play video games. Great. You should go design. What do you video games like what now?
00:38:04:02 – 00:38:21:22
Jennifer Montgomery
Like slow down. You know, like, what do you like to do? I don’t know, I like to bake cookies. Like. Great. You should be chef. Like, no, stop. Like, it doesn’t have to be that way. Yeah. You know, and I know that there’s, like, this great conversation. I think there’s a really powerful place for the conversation about formal education versus informal education.
00:38:21:27 – 00:38:44:05
Jennifer Montgomery
Education, regardless of how you want to qualify it or quantify it, is good whether it be I’m learning from you, in a conversation, whether it be, you know, an online course that, you know, teaches you how to use a new product or I’m not paid to plug this in any sort of way. But, you know, like I love using HubSpot.
00:38:44:05 – 00:39:12:51
Jennifer Montgomery
I love their HubSpot university. It’s great. I can go on. I like technology, I like learning about technology. It’s a fun way to learn it. And they teach me useful skills. So I think there’s value in that kind of education. And I think there’s value in the formal education regardless, you know, if it’s post-secondary or college or university or what have you, that maybe isn’t specific to the content of what you will do in your career as much as it is in terms of informing your perspective.
00:39:13:02 – 00:39:32:11
Jennifer Montgomery
Okay, young people graduate public school now, or I guess private school in many cases. But but the, you know, the the youth system, they graduate so early they’re like 17 years old. What on earth. They’re going to live for another 80 years. They don’t know squat yet, right. Like nothing. I mean, we all thought we knew everything, but no we don’t.
00:39:32:11 – 00:39:56:02
Jennifer Montgomery
Yeah. Certainly nothing about careers and all of the opportunities that are available to us. And we’re asking them to make these life decisions at 17 years old when it’s, you know, maybe we need to further our understanding. Maybe we need to deepen our thinking. Maybe we do need more philosophy classes so that we can learn to listen and question more instead of coming up with answers all the time.
00:39:56:11 – 00:40:23:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s I mean, we don’t have to go down that road because I feel like you and I are going to be on the same boat there, but like, I, look, I, I’m, I’m a fairly bright person, and I think that I say that not because, like, I have an ego, which I do, I, I quite a healthy ego, but I also know that other people are surprised, like I have the ability to surprise people with, with, with either being smart or intelligent.
00:40:23:40 – 00:40:42:11
Agent Palmer
I don’t know which could also say something about like, oh, I must not come off as smart or intelligent, but I will tell you that when I graduated, I was average. I don’t, I do not think there is anything average about me except that I can’t. I don’t have the memory. I never had a memory. I never had a good memory.
00:40:42:26 – 00:41:03:05
Agent Palmer
Concepts. I could grasp. Memory? Not so much. Did you read the book? Yes I did, I didn’t agree with what the character did. Well, what was he wearing? I don’t remember. Well, clearly you didn’t read the book. Are you serious with me right now? This is the way you were. So. I mean, when you get further on, I get it like it makes a lot more sense.
00:41:03:05 – 00:41:33:55
Agent Palmer
And I think one of the things that, quote unquote average students learn in abundance, especially when you get to university, college, even if it’s just community colleges, just pass the class, but just grasp the concept. That’s all that matters. Right? And then you get your first job. And guess what? They don’t ask for your GPA, and then you get your second job and they do not care.
00:41:33:55 – 00:42:01:15
Agent Palmer
They like, do you have a degree, yes or no? Do you have any work experience? Yes or no? That’s where it ends. Right. And you get to this point. We’re now looking back decades after graduating with a degree. I go, I spend way too much time, like worrying about like a 4.0, like it had no bearing. I, you know, I, I, I’m not saying like I could have gone to that party.
00:42:01:15 – 00:42:26:49
Agent Palmer
I was fairly well involved. One of the reasons my GPA was horrible was I actually got involved on campus. But if I had, you know, it’s always if I had known. But, you know, generation X, millennials, we’re all still young enough to do something about it, right? Like, yeah, you know, we’re we are going to live still another 40 or 50 years at least.
00:42:26:54 – 00:42:29:31
Agent Palmer
So you know, take that as you will.
00:42:29:38 – 00:42:46:16
Jennifer Montgomery
Which is so interesting when you think about it, because we used to think, you know, oh, you know, I made a career. I’m 40, I’m 45, whatever it is. Oh, gosh. You know, and I’m not achieving where I want to achieve or I’m not at the role I want to be at or the income level or whatever it is that that propels us to find change.
00:42:46:16 – 00:42:53:44
Jennifer Montgomery
I’m not happy in my job. I’m bored sitting at this desk. Whatever it is. Yeah. But when you think about it, you know, you have, like, another 20 years to work.
00:42:53:54 – 00:42:54:47
Agent Palmer
All right.
00:42:54:52 – 00:42:55:35
Jennifer Montgomery
So what do you want to do?
00:42:55:44 – 00:43:22:21
Agent Palmer
Well, and I’ll counter that by saying I am, almost 40, depending on when this airs. Closer to 40 than not, but still not 40 yet. I thought 30 was old. Right. Like I’m closer. I’m. I’m almost 40 and I, you know, growing up. Right, like 20, you know, you don’t think at 20 years old, even 29, you don’t really think of as old, 3030s, old.
00:43:22:28 – 00:43:26:03
Agent Palmer
I’m pushing 40. I got a friend who turned 40 last year. Right?
00:43:26:08 – 00:43:45:02
Jennifer Montgomery
No. Not 40. It’s funny, you know, because people used to think, at the beginning of 40 crafts, people thought it was tied to an age thing. It was like, this is like my midlife thing. Which it was like very close to when I turned 40. So it was funny. But as I get older that that connection gets further and further away.
00:43:45:11 – 00:44:04:11
Jennifer Montgomery
Yeah. But but yeah, people thought it was an age thing at first, which is kind of funny, but I don’t know, I think 40s, my jam, like a friend of mine said to me the other day, 40 one’s the new 25. And I was like, you know what? It totally is because there’s this, I don’t know, this confidence that comes with it, this kind of, you know, like, yeah, I don’t give a fuck.
00:44:04:11 – 00:44:18:33
Jennifer Montgomery
Like, whatever you know, not in a, not in a dismissive or rude sort of a way, but just in it, you know, like I’ve, I’ve experienced some life, I have had some highs, I’ve had some low it’s confidence just to bring to that.
00:44:18:34 – 00:44:39:28
Agent Palmer
It’s confidence really. Yeah. Because you, you have had those highs and lows and you’ve weathered I mean this is the thing we hit 40. We’ve had our ups and downs and we’ve survived both the ups and the downs. Right. Like okay. Like all right. Time to do that. You know and you know we’re getting that. We’re like time to finally do that thing.
00:44:39:39 – 00:44:58:12
Agent Palmer
Right? What is that thing right. You’re going to write a book of poetry. Good for you. But you’ve weathered so much up to this point. Go do it. What, like what’s the worst that could happen? You’ve probably experienced worse than if you don’t follow through on this. There’s a million things you haven’t followed through on. I’m no different, right?
00:44:58:12 – 00:45:17:34
Agent Palmer
Like. Or you want to make a movie. You want to write a script, do it. Like if you don’t finish, that’s fine, you’ll find something else. But we we always have this thing, and I’m kind of excited, that I don’t know where. And I think this is the other new piece to all of this. I embrace the I don’t know right now.
00:45:17:39 – 00:45:39:55
Agent Palmer
Great. Like, I and I know I talked about like, man, it hurt some people that were trying to help me. And I understand that because there’s not a lot you can do for me in 20 minutes. Like this conversation is going to be more helpful to me long term than a 15 minute networking call, especially when my answer is, I don’t know, right?
00:45:40:00 – 00:45:54:45
Agent Palmer
But I’m embracing it. I don’t mind it. I don’t know what tomorrow is. That doesn’t scare me, and I don’t know if I’m really excited at the prospect, but I’m not scared of it. And I think that’s a step in the right direction.
00:45:54:56 – 00:46:30:45
Jennifer Montgomery
I think so too, and I think for me, like, that’s kind of, you know, as I’ve explored, you know, my next 40 cups, my next 40 cups, is, you know, is component of, of really leaning in to, you know, what at first was desperate what at first was job seeking and is now an incredible path. And learning like learning from other people is so profound to me because we have all even though we may have similar experiences, we’ve all experienced them uniquely because of all of the other past experiences we brought and the lenses through which we see the world.
00:46:30:50 – 00:46:50:20
Jennifer Montgomery
So we learn so much from one another. I had the I had the pleasure to, guest on a, for lack of a better term, like a blog kind of a thing, a community where you kind of highlight your post of the week and it was all the gratitudes differ. And, a great, great entrepreneur here near me, he’s really do this.
00:46:50:20 – 00:47:23:23
Jennifer Montgomery
And I said, oh, I’d love to. You know, he had been on 40 cups as a guest. So, you know, just kind of exploring this idea of gratitude. And I think that’s been such a central part of my coffees is the, you know, I’m so grateful for every human I meet and every connection I make because of what we learn from each other and, you know, there are so many things going on all of the time, that, you know, kind of give that perspective of taking a moment and being grateful in the space and being grateful in the moment that whatever I did today, did it make me happy today?
00:47:23:27 – 00:47:44:12
Jennifer Montgomery
Did it make somebody else happy today? Did I help someone today? You know, and and I think that that’s kind of a place where I’ve landed is I don’t need to know where I’m going to be ten years from now, because then I’m going to spend all my time worrying about ten years from now, instead of being present, bring in the moment and being grateful for the opportunities that present today.
00:47:44:17 – 00:48:03:19
Jennifer Montgomery
You know, like this, like this is this is fantastic to have this conversation in with a new person and to make, you know, your community and my community connect. And, you know, hopefully that that contributes to growing some human experience in some way where we learn to listen and care for and, you know, recognize we might object, but we can still respect.
00:48:03:23 – 00:48:22:25
Agent Palmer
That’s one of the reasons I do this. I mean, I wouldn’t have used gratitude before this. I think I will now. Great. Like I, I always elevator pitch to this show as I don’t want to see long form conversation go away. Right. Attention spans are down.
00:48:22:30 – 00:48:26:26
Jennifer Montgomery
You know, mother of mother of three teenagers. Yes, I totally I totally agree.
00:48:26:26 – 00:48:54:41
Agent Palmer
And, you know, I, I relish the fact that the process of me doing this show is me talking to one other person with a cup of coffee, and a pen and a paper. Right. Like, yeah, we’re doing this on a computer, obviously. Like, there is technology involved, but I’m very old school, like the. You might as well be in a diner booth with me somewhere having coffee like that.
00:48:54:41 – 00:49:18:37
Agent Palmer
It. Right. And and I’m grateful for that because there are new news alerts, right. Like there’s no. Oh, who pinged me on this? My phone’s ringing. That. No, like, none of that. And, you know, one of the exciting part is I don’t know where it’s going to end. Like, I don’t like. Yeah, there’s there’s unscripted, sure. But like, there’s no outline either.
00:49:18:42 – 00:49:45:40
Agent Palmer
And that’s no different than a networking call. Right. And and look I know I kind of like early on was like yeah. So there was some networking stuff that didn’t work out well. But I also had some networking calls that were scheduled for 50 minutes that turned into two hours that were just like this. They were just great back and forth, talking philosophically about like where you should be or what you should do or you what you should try, which are the like.
00:49:45:53 – 00:50:13:45
Agent Palmer
If you find someone, who will give you suggestions instead of directions, hold the fork on to them. They are a connection worth having in your network and returning to. Because I’m not saying the people that give you direction have any ill will towards you. That’s not the case, but the people who will give you suggestions are the ones who will grow with whatever your I don’t know, with whatever my I don’t know leads to next.
00:50:13:48 – 00:50:37:00
Jennifer Montgomery
It’s like, oh, it’s like a word bank, right? Like they give you like kind of a word bank to go from, like, okay, so here’s all these options like, you know, pick a couple, try them out and then come back as opposed to like, well, you should pick this one, right. You know, like the it rings you thing, you know, the old thinking about your parents, you know, parents imposing, you know, whether you should be this or you’re up or, or, you know, even school telling you what you’re capable.
00:50:37:11 – 00:51:06:23
Jennifer Montgomery
Yeah, right. You know, and I maybe that when you’re talking about, you know, being average and thinking about, you know, like the measurement of our abilities as you is so kind of abstract and subjective that often it’s not a measure of our ability. It’s a measure of our interest, of our motivation of, the amount of which we understand, you know, what we need to put in to get what we need to get out.
00:51:06:24 – 00:51:24:56
Jennifer Montgomery
You know, like, I know I need to have this mark so mom doesn’t ground me or so you know, like I have to pass physics so dad can let me have the car, you know, and and that’s what really motivates us when we’re young. So, you know, those things are not that powerful, are not an indicator of your long term success path, you know?
00:51:25:01 – 00:51:25:31
Agent Palmer
Well, Jake.
00:51:25:32 – 00:51:28:21
Jennifer Montgomery
The nerd, he’s going to be better.
00:51:28:26 – 00:51:51:54
Agent Palmer
You know what? I know, but I will counter with this. My, I don’t remember if it’s median or mean. Whatever happens most often, I think that’s the mean, right? The median is the middle, but the mean is the one that happened to most often. So the mean of every progress report, report card, parent teacher conference, etc., period.
00:51:51:54 – 00:52:22:25
Agent Palmer
The end from K through probably college for me was and I kid you not with like a few exceptions was he seems unmotivated right. And the few exceptions are the teachers that were actually able to motivate me. Right. There’s your exception. So why am I average? No probably not. But then again, I don’t think anybody’s average. However, if you don’t get the motivation right, you will never see exceptional, right?
00:52:22:25 – 00:52:44:57
Agent Palmer
Like okay, if the money the car not being grounded is enough of a motivational factor, sure, maybe you’ll be exceptional, but for most of us, not getting the car or being grounded for a little bit or, you know, not getting the allowance or like that’s just the bare minimum of existing that there’s no motivation there.
00:52:45:02 – 00:53:09:58
Jennifer Montgomery
Yeah. I think it’s such an interesting concept. You know, there’s this piece of, you know, the exceptional thing. You know, you’re talking about jobs, right. And and what’s your career path. And, and you know, young people saying, you know, I want to be an influencer when I grow up. And, and there’s this concept now that in order to be a success or to be measured as a success, you have to be exceptional on those standards, like the followers or the, you know, that I don’t know, likes or whatever.
00:53:09:58 – 00:53:29:04
Jennifer Montgomery
They all are. And it’s, you know, it’s it’s a really interesting piece that that piece of, you know, what does it mean to be exceptional? You know, I hope I have an exceptional moment and you know, almost every day, like, you know, this is this is an awesome opportunity or, you know, this really made my day or this coffee was amazing or whatever it might be.
00:53:29:04 – 00:53:47:19
Jennifer Montgomery
I mean, most coffee is amazing, but let’s be honest. Yeah, yeah. Except for, you know, for like a poorly made cup. But in its nature, it was set to be exceptional. So yeah. Like, I just, Yeah, this, this whole phenomenon of, you know, how we measure success is really, really interesting where we are right now in the world.
00:53:47:19 – 00:54:18:38
Jennifer Montgomery
And, and that perception, you know, like, you might perceive someone as being more exceptional or how you measure it. You know, I know that my children, you know, see people online and they’re taking trips and they’re doing all the things the influencers do. And they have, you know, these cool cars or whatever they have. And I always laugh and, you know, think about, you know, when Emma Thompson, that one time came up, I think it was at the Oscars or the Golden Globes, and she won an award and she came up, must be in the Golden Globes because they were drinking, and she had a drink in her hand, and she had her shoes
00:54:18:38 – 00:54:44:12
Jennifer Montgomery
in her other hand and accepting your award, and she was just confident in who she was and able to go up in front of her peers. And I was like, I don’t ever want to be an actress, but I want to be Emma Thompson when I grow up, because I want to be able to walk up on a stage with my shoes in my hands and be confident that I am who I am, and I’m at peace with that and that, you know, other people, you know, respect me.
00:54:44:12 – 00:55:06:55
Jennifer Montgomery
They don’t have to like me, but they respect me. You know that that moment when she she did that to me, that’s stuck in my head is, you know, that’s that’s what I want to have. That’s that’s my goal. What, what industry that is a part of or whether it’s not just being a good person. And I think that that’s kind of the place.
00:55:07:00 – 00:55:12:10
Jennifer Montgomery
You.
00:55:12:15 – 00:55:33:09
Agent Palmer
There are a few things I’d like to say about this episode, but first, let me clear up my horrible math. It wasn’t mean or median. The most common occurrence in a set of numbers is actually the mode. So I was wrong. And all of the mathematicians out there. This is why I want to have one of you on my show to set me on the path towards number knowledge.
00:55:33:14 – 00:55:57:15
Agent Palmer
Anyway, a few things to point out from the discussion you just heard that were correct. The power of know isn’t just in saying it, it’s in being able to accept it. Asking for anything at all is quite similar. You ask, and there will be an answer that by any measure will often be yes or no. If you are not afraid of the no, then you’re more likely to ask the question in the first place.
00:55:57:19 – 00:56:25:51
Agent Palmer
Not being afraid of a no is an extremely valuable and important tool. Now, you did hear a bit about career transitions and career trajectories and hobbies and passions, and not knowing what was going to happen. First. I personally have come to embrace this, but more importantly, we all evolve. It is important to recognize that the things we like today, the things we don’t, are not always going to be the same.
00:56:25:51 – 00:56:52:32
Agent Palmer
Tomorrow. We learn, we experience, and we grow. And with all of that, we change. And do you know what else changes? Success by definition, what makes success changes based on who you are, what you do, and most importantly, what you want. And you don’t come to those answers just maintaining your own status quo. You have to ask yourself the hard questions.
00:56:52:32 – 00:57:21:04
Agent Palmer
And here’s the thing you have to answer them to. Self-evaluation is a huge part of therapy, and whether you think it’s a racket or a life saver, you have to admit people who come out of sessions, especially longer term commitments to the practice, have a better handle on who they are. Does it solve all of their problems? No, but they are better able to handle them because they are self-aware of their strengths and weaknesses, which is also something that changes as we evolve.
00:57:21:09 – 00:57:43:47
Agent Palmer
The point is, and I keep coming back to this point often enough, that I guess it’s another podcast theme. For those of you playing Palmer Files, bingo is change is constant, and if we maintain our own self-awareness, we can be aware of those changes. So when was the last time you asked yourself the hard questions? What do you want to do?
00:57:43:52 – 00:58:05:56
Agent Palmer
Where do you want to be? And most importantly, when was the last time you answered those questions honestly, thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 69. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion.
00:58:06:01 – 00:58:26:09
Agent Palmer
You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest, Jennifer Montgomery, at 40 Cups of Coffee. That’s four zero cups of coffee. Or this show at the Palmer Files. You can find more information about Jennifer and 40 cups at Blue Door Group. Okay. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things.
00:58:26:09 – 00:58:33:48
Agent Palmer
Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:58:33:53 – 00:58:39:21
Unknown
You.
00:58:39:26 – 00:58:47:50
Unknown
You need.
00:58:47:55 – 00:59:09:49
Unknown
Me?
00:59:09:54 – 00:59:15:23
Unknown
She.
00:59:15:27 – 00:59:17:52
Agent Palmer
Jennifer, do you have one final question for me?
00:59:17:53 – 00:59:37:51
Jennifer Montgomery
Absolutely. So this is a question that I ask pretty much everybody that I have coffee with. And it’s probably the last question I ask them as well. They ask them, you know, what’s your superpower? Not if you could have any superpower. Now, I don’t, you know, I can have it. No, but what is your superpower?
00:59:37:52 – 00:59:48:22
Agent Palmer
My superpower? You know, I feel like it is.
00:59:48:27 – 01:00:16:52
Agent Palmer
It it’s a combination. It’s whatever happens when you put persistence and perseverance into a high drawn collider. I don’t know what that ends up being, because if I’m on your side, you’re stuck with me. Like I’ve got a friend who is, working on a movie, and now I’m his producer because, like, we would talk about it and I would help him.
01:00:16:52 – 01:00:46:03
Agent Palmer
I was like, I want to help you. That’s it. Period. I just I want to help you. And now I’m helping him on a much more regular basis, as opposed to just being on the phone when he’s complaining about this project. Now I’m in there with him. Right. I got a friend who, whose book of poetry I edited, and he’s working on his second one, and he stuck with me as an editor until he fires me, which is not possible because we’ve known each other for like three, four decades.
01:00:46:03 – 01:01:08:22
Agent Palmer
Right? So, like, if I’m on your side, you’re stuck with me, and I’m going to push you. Right? And I think that’s my superpower. And it’s not. I mean, it’s it’s really good for other people. I don’t know, but not so good. I don’t push myself as hard as I push others.
01:01:08:27 – 01:01:12:43
Jennifer Montgomery
I think that’s what superpowers are. I think they are better for other people than they are for you.
01:01:12:47 – 01:01:34:46
Agent Palmer
I mean, okay, then. Yeah, then that’s definitely my superpower. And that and the ability to piss both of those friends and other friends off by being five steps ahead. Right. Like, one of the things that I can do really well is see the details and the big picture at the same time, and I can connect the dots a little bit.
01:01:34:51 – 01:01:55:55
Agent Palmer
So like one of my former bosses who was one of my favorite bosses of all time, would get very upset because I would be like, yeah, we’re going to change this little detail and it’s not going to work in five years. What, like that’s a jump. Like, I know that’s a statement I’ve made to her. Right? And I know the look I got from her when I said right.
01:01:56:00 – 01:02:15:35
Agent Palmer
Because no one talks like that. And, you know, maybe the two things were slightly related or unrelated, or maybe it’s because we’re doing this thing and it won’t work in five years. But yeah, let’s make it pretty now. You know, maybe whatever it was. But I can do the details and the big picture, and a lot of the times I can see how they connect and people don’t like that.
01:02:15:35 – 01:02:48:55
Agent Palmer
By the way, I will say that like I, I as a secondary superpower, I can absorb other people’s like, dislike because, you know, I don’t. I look, I may not remember all the details of things and I may not be able to completely, coherently put things together, but I’m right often enough that I’m like, that will work in five years, and you will ask me how, and I’ll have no real like, I just it just won’t.
01:02:49:00 – 01:02:59:03
Agent Palmer
Like, you’ll have to trust me. I can’t always connect the dots between looking at the details and seeing the big picture. You’re just going to have to trust me.
01:02:59:07 – 01:03:18:49
Jennifer Montgomery
Okay? My brother in law, he has this, like, great superpower and this talent where he can take two words, that don’t relate to one another or like or like in some sort of context. And he puts them together to make something new. And it’s always made my kids laugh. They always thought like this was the best thing about their uncle.
01:03:18:49 – 01:03:29:42
Jennifer Montgomery
Mike was like, he could make these new words out of words that already existed. Like mind blown, right? Yeah. Maybe this is your word. Like maybe you have like first or first. It’s.
01:03:29:47 – 01:03:36:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I’m going to have to I’m going to have to workshop that one. Yeah. But I guess that’s, that’s my thing.
01:03:36:46 – 01:03:38:36
Jennifer Montgomery
I think that’s a fantastic superpower.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).