Episode 59 features Evelien, a producer, who is here to discuss her day job as a producer, where we both agree no one has any clue what a producer does.
Except that it is important and integral to many mediums, plus learning by doing, being organized, a few metaphors and much much more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- What is a producer?
- What does a producer do?
- Wanting to be in media?
- Culturally understanding media?
- Always Producing…
- Saying Yes vs. Saying No
- To do your own thing
- Production vs. Live Production
- Lack of Sleep
- Overreaching
- Anonymity
- Creative Creatures
- Being Bored
- Being Prepared
- Being Flexible
- Jack of All Trades
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:28:28
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. The real Frank Zappa book is worth your time. Declassifying a decade honoring ten years of Agent Palmer dot com and Rob’s story has given me hope that I’m on the path to somewhere. Though I do not know where this is. The Palmer Files episode 59 featuring Evelien from the Ripon Podcast, who is here to discuss her day job as a producer, where we both agree no one has any clue what a producer does, excepting that it is important and integral to many mediums.
00:00:28:28 – 00:01:06:02
Agent Palmer
Plus, learning by doing, being organized, a few metaphors and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:06:06 – 00:01:27:22
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as AJ Palmer, and on this 59th episode is Evelien. She is a producer for television as well as her own podcast, reppin. And she’s here to discuss what it is a producer does as a producer for podcasts. I was interested in her career as a producer and how it’s related to her podcast.
00:01:27:27 – 00:01:51:54
Agent Palmer
We’re creators, we’re innovators, we get things done. And that’s not just because we’re producers. It’s literally who we are. What you’re about to hear is how we arrived at where we are, what did or did not prepare us for it, and a little bit about the process of what we do. There are metaphors aplenty because relating what we do, even though we know what it is, still isn’t the easiest thing.
00:01:51:54 – 00:02:13:32
Agent Palmer
Because as you’ll soon find out, it encompasses so much. Now, you may have noticed I have not given Evelien’s full name. This is not an omission. She likes her anonymity and I respect that as I hope you do too. Before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest Evelien at Rep and Podcast.
00:02:13:32 – 00:02:40:41
Agent Palmer
That’s rep and podcast, and this show at The Palmer Files. You can find Evelien’s rep in podcast, a podcast about stories of courage, empowerment, diversity, perspective, acceptance and more. Wherever you find your podcasts and you can find more information, at campsite Dot biography and podcast. Again, that’s our episode podcast. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com.
00:02:40:41 – 00:02:55:02
Agent Palmer
And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, quiet please. The producers are talking.
00:02:55:06 – 00:03:13:58
Agent Palmer
Evelien, you are a producer for television and movies, and I am a producer of podcasts, and I feel like the one thing that people may not know that we have in common is that nobody has any idea what either of us do when we say we’re a producer.
00:03:14:03 – 00:03:39:14
Evelien
I, you know, Jason, sometimes I’m wondering that myself. To be honest with you. I don’t know if you have days like that where you’re just sort of spinning around and wondering what it is that I’m doing today. But, yeah, I mean, I am a producer for television shows and, you know, obviously producers have a lot of different responsibilities depending on what genre you are in.
00:03:39:19 – 00:04:11:11
Evelien
But my so you can handle everything from money, budget to, you know, crew to, content. And my job usually is handling everything from, content to creating what you actually see and how you see it. To working with crews to working with talent and putting it all together. So I’m basically, if you want to use, an example, it would essentially be I am the chef of the dish.
00:04:11:16 – 00:04:25:15
Evelien
So I pick the ingredients, I make sure it’s cooked well. In which way, extra seasoning, whatever, and how it looks on the plate, if that’s what a producer does, essentially. So I’m sure you have similar experiences in the content world, right? Jason.
00:04:25:15 – 00:04:50:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It feels like, you’re an intern, with that gets paid, right? Because you’re the intern gets to do everything right, like the intern gets to do everything, and the producer does get to do some fun stuff, but the the producer gets to do. But, but, but you’re on everything. Like, you’re you’re scheduling. Yes. You know, for just the podcast side of it.
00:04:50:40 – 00:05:13:00
Agent Palmer
Like, it was like, you know, are both hosts available? Is the guest ready? Does the guest have the connection to call in or however they’re connecting? And, you know, did the host cover the ad or the ad read and then, you know, a little bit of like, did we promote this yet? Yeah. When’s this coming out? You know, you’re the you’re the encyclopedia.
00:05:13:00 – 00:05:40:55
Agent Palmer
And I know that like the behind the scenes, of like, everything is now for the world to see. But nobody talks to a producer. They talk to the set designer, right? They talk to the editor, they talk to the director and the actor. And I guess in the simple, to me, in the simplest terms, like connecting the dots, the producer, not only is it being the chef, but you’re also like the, the blood.
00:05:40:59 – 00:05:45:57
Agent Palmer
Yes. Because you’re the Go-Between between all these other things.
00:05:46:02 – 00:06:12:39
Evelien
Absolutely correct. Yes. And I mean, your hand is in literally everything. And, you know, overall, you’re the ringmaster of the circus. So I mean, and I do mean that circus because sometimes it is a little insane, but, yeah, as a producer, you are responsible literally for everything, even to handling some, you know, colorful personalities that you might come across with talent.
00:06:12:44 – 00:06:33:07
Evelien
That’s also in your court. So there isn’t anything that’s outside of the responsibilities of a producer. So good. Bad, the ugly. It’s all under the umbrella of the producer. And ultimately, you know, that’s all just the stuff behind the scenes. I was talking about. Usually because the producers crying in the corner. That’s why I’m not getting interviewed.
00:06:33:12 – 00:06:46:35
Evelien
But, you know, and also the end result of what you hear in, in your case, Jason, the podcast and what you see on TV and film is also the responsibility of the producer.
00:06:46:39 – 00:07:12:58
Agent Palmer
Except and this is the thing that I don’t understand, about any of it is that, and there’s plenty of sports analogies to be made by this, but like, the producer very rarely gets any of the credit or any of the blame, actually, for that matter, like the the blame, usually that. Oh, well, I guess in the within the production maybe.
00:07:12:58 – 00:07:20:17
Agent Palmer
But I’m thinking like once something’s released into the world, it’s the director and the host that are on the hook or the writer or, you know.
00:07:20:17 – 00:07:21:58
Evelien
For the most part, yeah.
00:07:22:03 – 00:07:27:30
Agent Palmer
Like you’re you’re bypassed for both things, despite the fact that you have the biggest hand in all of it.
00:07:27:43 – 00:07:35:38
Evelien
Yeah. I mean, I agree with that to some degree. I think my experience might be a little bit different in the sense that the producer definitely gets the brunt of.
00:07:35:43 – 00:07:36:55
Agent Palmer
00:07:37:00 – 00:08:05:23
Evelien
A lot of it, be it good, the bad and the ugly, like I will say, and everything else will have an off line conversation. Jason. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, in my experience, the producer does get a lot of the brunt should things go poorly. Okay. Be it logistics or talent or things that were missed in content, you know, crew, if the crew is misbehaving, or acting out, you know, the producer definitely gets it.
00:08:05:23 – 00:08:16:39
Evelien
At least I’ve got. I’ve gotten that. So, you know, and the good, you know, we get the accolades too, I think sometimes. But I kind of go by the creed. No news is good news.
00:08:16:41 – 00:08:17:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:08:17:26 – 00:08:36:32
Evelien
So that’s when I’m sort of pleased. And I know I did a good job when I get hired back. That’s kind of the rule I kind of live by. So yeah, I think, yeah, the producer is, you know. No. What? You’re right. No one knows about what a producer does. I don’t think my parents know what I do, and I’ve been doing it for a little bit.
00:08:36:37 – 00:08:42:40
Evelien
So. Yeah, it’s a it’s a mystery because I think we do so much that it’s hard to break down.
00:08:42:40 – 00:08:49:02
Agent Palmer
Now, first of all, did you always want to be in media? I’m not even going to just say television. Did you always want to be in media?
00:08:49:07 – 00:09:13:26
Evelien
Yeah. I mean, I started, you know, I’m an Asian American, woman. My parents were immigrants. I was born in New York City. I got rid of my accent, thank you very much. And, you know, both culturally speaking and also, you know, just the fear of not getting a job out of college sort of scared me to be, to try to take a more practical route.
00:09:13:30 – 00:09:38:09
Evelien
And I talk about this a lot in my podcast, you know, I also didn’t see a place for me. There weren’t many Asian faces on screen and certainly not off screen. And then you hear about all of these, you know, scary, intimidating, daunting stories about how the business is, you know, really hard and and cutthroat and crazy and, and, you know, yes, it can be that certainly.
00:09:38:14 – 00:10:03:38
Evelien
But so I sort of pursued accounting, which is hilarious to my friends because I can’t figure out a lunch check. I use an app. I’m not even kidding. And so but yes, entertainment media was something I’ve always wanted to do. And ultimately, you know, I had to take a huge risk and just go for it. So for me, at that time, my only option was to succeed.
00:10:03:42 – 00:10:43:13
Agent Palmer
Okay. So I see, and and you, you and I have it very different because as a Jewish American, I know about directors and writers because that, like you, if you have any general interest in media and you happen to be Jewish, they always pointed out, right, like, oh, you know, like culturally, like from a cultural Judaism perspective, we are very aware of how this tiny 1.0. 2% of us, or whatever the percentage is like, have this big part of of the Hollywood media.
00:10:43:13 – 00:11:02:11
Agent Palmer
We’re not the we’re not the majority. But, you know, the the, the the the those things abound. Right? But but you know, that that exists as, like a platform for you. I just kind of never saw it as a thing I’d want to do until now. Here I am doing it.
00:11:02:16 – 00:11:03:07
Evelien
And doing it very.
00:11:03:07 – 00:11:18:30
Agent Palmer
Well. Well, I, I wonder though because I, I enjoy the independent label. And I enjoy, talking to you because I want to talk to you, not because it may be good for my ratings or you know, because, you know, I enjoy having.
00:11:18:36 – 00:11:19:58
Evelien
It’s good for your ratings.
00:11:20:02 – 00:11:43:41
Agent Palmer
I do too. But that’s not but that’s not the reason the, the impetus. And you know, my blog is the same way I write something that I want to share with people, not because 100 people will like it, but maybe one will. And right. That’s where the success like how do you define that. Right. Like and and I your podcast I think is similar in that regard where you’re trying to get a message out there.
00:11:43:47 – 00:12:12:48
Agent Palmer
Yes. And if you reach one person, like if you reach one person, if 100 people listen great. But if you reach one person, like that’s what your ultimate goal is. You’re not trying to me. I mean, look, I think we would all have that number where it would be like, okay, well now I’m doing this full time, but and what is you know, I’ve always had the conversation with friends and even family of like, what that numerical monetary number does to the show.
00:12:12:53 – 00:12:39:31
Agent Palmer
That changes some of this, you know, expresses what I’m doing for my livelihood. As much as I still want to talk to you, maybe I can, but now I have to balance you out with, I don’t know, the biggest A level celebrity I can get next week. Right? And then I don’t want to deal with that. And one of the things that makes it interesting to me from a producing standpoint is I’m still so passionate about the content.
00:12:39:37 – 00:12:40:02
Evelien
Yes, I.
00:12:40:02 – 00:13:03:43
Agent Palmer
Agree that I the the rest is so irrelevant to me. And and I think this might be, a behind the scenes mentality. We’re always, I don’t want to say putting out little fires, but it’s it’s death by a thousand cuts. There’s always a lot of little things to get done and a lot of details to pay attention to.
00:13:03:48 – 00:13:27:52
Agent Palmer
So you never see the bigger picture. Like, yeah, the episode’s done this, this shot is done, and now I’m on to the next episode, or we’re on to the next scene, or we’re on to the next thing. And so but that’s who we are. And so then all of a sudden you’re like, now what? Like, I don’t know, do you take you like, do you take time off or because you have the podcast now too?
00:13:27:55 – 00:13:31:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I feel like you are probably always producing something.
00:13:31:35 – 00:13:50:42
Evelien
Yes, yes that’s true. And and I don’t know if you could hear the sirens of New York. Ladies and gentlemen, but, welcome to New York City and know that our taxpayer money is, going to good use. Yeah, I’m always producing. I actually just got off a plane coming back from LA, working on a project, so, yeah, there’s a million little cuts.
00:13:50:42 – 00:14:22:05
Evelien
But I also, you know, add on to that, Jason, is that there’s also a million large cuts, gashes, hemorrhaging that, you’re constantly putting out this fire. So, yeah, I mean, you know, I can share a million stories over my career where, you know, things just didn’t go as planned, and you’re literally just making it work. And in fact, I’m not going to give too many details, but like on my last shoot that I just came back from, from Los Angeles, it was a wonderful crew, incredible show, incredible project.
00:14:22:05 – 00:14:52:30
Evelien
I’m super excited to be part of it. But things did not go as planned. There were people about an hour late. You know, it was conversation sort of dominated in one area when we were supposed to cover two areas. And ultimately, you know, the producers kind of came together and our co-executive producers, we have two of them who are spectacular and talented and kind, didn’t lose their cool and just sort of, you know, came up with some immediate ideas right on the spot.
00:14:52:44 – 00:15:11:38
Evelien
And we made it work. So there are a million things that I’m sure you can agree with this to. Jason. Just doing a podcast. I mean, there’s a million details are involved with putting something like this together. It takes so much work and so much time. But at the end of the day, it is about the passion and the conversations that we want to have, and that’s what fuels us.
00:15:11:43 – 00:15:25:28
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You agree with that? I would, although I do want to ask you because so I’ve been, in hindsight slowly preparing to be a producer somehow. Right. Like it all makes sense for.
00:15:25:28 – 00:15:27:00
Evelien
Podcasting or for television.
00:15:27:00 – 00:15:53:17
Agent Palmer
For any like I feel like at this point I could take on any industry, okay. Because of of just the experience and the little bits here and there of like, you have to figure out scheduling, know you have to stay on budget. No. Make sure your details there, like all of those little things like I feel like I, you know, obviously there’d be a learning curve, like if I jumped on the set of a major motion picture, I think, you know, culture shock one.
00:15:53:17 – 00:16:15:46
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but but I feel like all of the I think I have the skill set and I don’t know, and only in hindsight do I figure out like, oh, this. But like you said, you had no other thing to do but succeed. But like, was there something in your either upbringing or schooling or hobbies as a child that, like, prepared you for this?
00:16:15:51 – 00:16:20:33
Agent Palmer
You know, frenetic? Everything’s all over the place. Hold it together.
00:16:20:46 – 00:16:48:02
Evelien
That’s a really good question. I don’t know that I ever really thought of it that way. For me, I’ve always had a huge passion for pop culture and entertainment and media. I loved television and films, and I know everybody says that, and that’s true, but I think I was so enamored and I was so there was such a pull for me to be in entertainment that there was never a question that that was what I wanted to do.
00:16:48:04 – 00:17:08:03
Evelien
Like I wanted to breathe it. I wanted to live it. So at that point, you know, it was just I think the fear of failure was much greater than the fear of chaos, to be honest with you. So that was sort of a huge motivating factor. Also, I’m an only child, so you don’t want to disappoint your your parents.
00:17:08:03 – 00:17:42:55
Agent Palmer
I know that feeling. I am also an only child and I oh okay, you get it, but I but but there’s also a part of me, and I have this and I don’t know where this comes from, but like, I, I think I have a bigger, not bigger. But I do have a fear of success. Like I will complete I will come clean right now and just say, like, I know I have a a small fear of success, like interesting whatever moderate amount of internet stardom this podcast and my blog have allowed me is comfortable.
00:17:43:00 – 00:18:06:16
Agent Palmer
But if I quote unquote go viral tomorrow, there’s a part of that that scares me a lot more than if this episode happened to didn’t work out for some reason. Sure. Sure. And and I think part of it is I, I can we we can redo this. Uhhuh. But once it succeeds, you can’t put you can’t undo that.
00:18:06:21 – 00:18:07:22
Agent Palmer
No, you can’t fix.
00:18:07:22 – 00:18:18:09
Evelien
That back in the bottle. Yeah, that’s for sure. Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, but is that a fear of success or just fear of being overwhelmed? See, I see a nuance there.
00:18:18:09 – 00:18:20:37
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, but, I don’t, I don’t I don’t.
00:18:20:37 – 00:18:24:45
Evelien
Know if it’s a fear of success that you’re talking about. And I’ll challenge you with that.
00:18:24:45 – 00:18:50:44
Agent Palmer
Respectfully, I well, I mean, that’s fair. I overwhelm is a, I guess it depends on how we determine overwhelm, because, like, I’ve been one who over the last three years, finally started challenging myself when people would ask me for help. I was finally starting to find reasons to say yes instead of instead of finding reasons to say no.
00:18:50:44 – 00:19:16:58
Agent Palmer
Which meant my default was always yes. Interesting. Okay, there was a there was a time where, and thank God for pod chaser because there’s now proof of it where like I was either producing or guesting. I didn’t have this show at the time, but I was either producing or guesting on 3 or 4 shows concurrently and probably helping behind the scenes of a few that never really went anywhere.
00:19:17:03 – 00:19:20:39
Agent Palmer
And it was a scenario where I was always saying, yes.
00:19:20:44 – 00:19:23:08
Evelien
Okay.
00:19:23:13 – 00:19:28:23
Agent Palmer
But that’s again, it’s an overwhelming thing, but it’s a busy thing.
00:19:28:28 – 00:19:29:00
Evelien
Right?
00:19:29:00 – 00:19:37:53
Agent Palmer
And, and it’s different than being overwhelmed because something worked. I think some of it worked. I was just too busy to notice, like.
00:19:37:58 – 00:20:00:26
Evelien
Right. Yeah. Because you’re moving so fast, I can’t. I mean, it’s hard to to notice these things, but I still don’t know. I mean, I think that’s, that’s being busy and and and staying and I think part of I mean I’ll again I’m speculating because I don’t want to speak for you, but my assumption of just hearing this is, you know, it’s you loved it.
00:20:00:26 – 00:20:15:05
Evelien
It fueled you creatively. It fulfilled a part of you. Obviously, that’s what you did it. But I don’t know if it’s fear of success because you are succeeding now with your blog and also with your podcast. And, it’s a good it’s a good feeling and I don’t see you shying away from it. I.
00:20:15:09 – 00:20:37:02
Agent Palmer
I mean, it’s fair. I guess I’m not. And look, this is a, this is a cycle thing. We don’t have to get a psychoanalysis thing we don’t have to get into. But like like I know that I am a horrible complement taker. I am also I am also a horrible gift receiver. So okay, those two things go together.
00:20:37:02 – 00:20:38:30
Evelien
I support groups for that. Yeah.
00:20:38:30 – 00:20:47:10
Agent Palmer
So so so maybe part of it is I could go huge tomorrow and I just.
00:20:47:15 – 00:20:47:42
Evelien
Don’t know how to.
00:20:47:42 – 00:20:58:37
Agent Palmer
Handle. Like I deflect like, you tell me I have a great show and I’m going to just be like, thanks for listening. Here’s something else. Like, I’m not I’m not like.
00:20:58:39 – 00:21:24:12
Evelien
I get that. Yeah. You know, the funny thing is that we’re having this conversation is that in many ways, I’m the same way. You know, so many people will say, well, not so many people I don’t even want to say that makes me uncomfortable just saying that. I’ll even share with you. You know, one of the biggest hurdles for me personally, when I started this podcast was I was really struggling.
00:21:24:12 – 00:21:43:54
Evelien
And you may laugh about this, I was really struggling about whether or not I should find somebody to host this show. And I’ll just produce it. But then ultimately it came down to, you know, being nimble in terms of production and not having like someone else. I had to schedule and someone else I had to produce and someone else I had to direct.
00:21:43:59 – 00:22:05:05
Evelien
I know how to do the interviews. I know the conversations that I want to have. So I was trying to streamline it and ultimately I was just like, oh, you just I just kind of suck it up and do the show. So I understand, you know, the the issue with not not being comfortable with taking compliments, I certainly can fall under that same category.
00:22:05:09 – 00:22:27:54
Agent Palmer
But but I will challenge you to so I, I came on board the stranger conversations like at the end of season one basically. And Grant and I worked towards a season two and it was his mission and it was his vision, and he had done all the season one, and I was just there to basically produce it in terms of like help with the scheduling, maybe do a little editing.
00:22:27:59 – 00:22:49:45
Agent Palmer
He wanted a second opinion, like a second set of ears. When we were shooting, when he was doing his live stuff. So I was we did a couple trial runs. Now, spoiler alert, season two never actually took off, but we did a couple of like, trial runs where it was like I was on the Skype call, but I was muted and I had a way to contact Grant, but nobody else.
00:22:49:45 – 00:23:09:48
Agent Palmer
So like, he would talk to the show and tell and I’d be like, oh, by the way, you should really follow up on this. I know he went on, but just go back to this. And that was great because, you know, I, I got a real taste of the live aspect of it, which is different than all the other stuff where it’s like, okay, I set you up, here’s the schedule.
00:23:09:53 – 00:23:12:22
Agent Palmer
Right? You you do it and.
00:23:12:26 – 00:23:14:00
Evelien
You’re producing him live.
00:23:14:05 – 00:23:39:10
Agent Palmer
And that was I enjoy like I think I had so much fun with that. And the only reason that someone else isn’t hosting this show right now is exactly. It’s it’s it’s being realistic. Like, okay, I can set up all this stuff, but I’m adding a, like, I’m, I’m cooking with an arm behind my back if I now have to schedule another person into this.
00:23:39:10 – 00:24:00:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But I, I feel like none of this has ever been learned. I mean, I’ve learned it by doing, but none of this has ever been taught, like, I didn’t I didn’t go to school for any of this. I didn’t go to school for any of this. And I didn’t write. Nobody taught me time made it. Look, if I if there was one thing I never learned in high school and college, it’s time management.
00:24:00:59 – 00:24:13:54
Agent Palmer
Like I barely learned organization by the time I got out of college. Like so the fact that I can actually juggle these things and maintain all these things is slightly, amazing to me.
00:24:14:01 – 00:24:35:24
Evelien
It’s awesome. It’s, you know, it’s not easy. And yeah, I mean, a lot of the things that I’ve learned, I’ve learned on the job, respectfully, I think NYU, as in and some other colleges have been, you know, have incredible programs, none of which I was able to get into. But, you know, and I’m sure those film students have far exponentially more experience than I do coming out of school.
00:24:35:29 – 00:25:00:57
Evelien
But I think at the end of the day, it’s all about how passionate you are, how hungry you are. Because I think those are huge motivating factors that propel you to learn, that make you want to learn, and you just consume and like, you just consume as much as you can. So, you know, I’ll go as far as saying, I was so hungry for this business that I, you know, went to college full time.
00:25:00:57 – 00:25:31:26
Evelien
I did ten internships by the time I graduated college. I finished college on time. And I was so voracious with, like, interning and freelancing while I was in school that I had no idea that I only was like on three hours of sleep until senior year. I was super burnt out and I crashed pretty hard. But, you know, when you when you love this, you learn how to do it.
00:25:31:31 – 00:25:35:45
Evelien
And it’s a lot of it is just baptism by fire. I have a and I think you would agree with that too.
00:25:35:45 – 00:25:57:16
Agent Palmer
I have a similar story. Not not as far as the business goes, but like my freshman year was a train wreck in itself for many other reasons. The like, mainly because I didn’t want to go to class. Right. But but sophomore and junior year was when I started writing for the paper and I got involved in student government and I got involved in student activities.
00:25:57:16 – 00:26:20:55
Agent Palmer
And now all of a sudden I’m functioning on like 4 or 5 hours of sleep. And it’s not until I get to my senior year that I go, maybe pump the brakes on some of this. Yeah. Like, you know, you you you’ve set yourself up. You don’t have to do this for, like, you did it, okay? Like nobody’s going to be like, oh, you you were only president of that club for two years.
00:26:20:56 – 00:26:43:17
Agent Palmer
Like nobody’s going to be like, why didn’t you do this? Like, nobody’s going to come at you for that, right? So pump the brakes and enjoy your senior year. And that’s when I realized, oh, like, I can do homework at 8:00 because I am not required to be at this meeting or this event or whatever. And now all of a sudden, I’m done at 10:00.
00:26:43:21 – 00:26:45:27
Evelien
And you’re like, wow, I get an extra three hours of.
00:26:45:27 – 00:27:07:40
Agent Palmer
Sleep. It’s not even an extra three hours like I can hang out with my friends like I can I can have a life beyond all those other things, meanwhile, right. Like, yeah, fast forward to me getting into podcasting and saying yes to everybody. And it’s like I look back on that catalog of work and go, how did I, I had a full time job.
00:27:07:45 – 00:27:12:37
Evelien
I wait a second, don’t you think that schedule prepared you for producing?
00:27:12:42 – 00:27:28:31
Agent Palmer
I it’s it’s possible, but that’s what I mean. In hindsight. We can look back and see all of the things like I was in. I was in the radio Club, and before that I had played around in, you know, any band you can think of and, you know, my friends and I, I had a task import a studio and like, you know, I would record.
00:27:28:40 – 00:27:57:45
Agent Palmer
So there’s all these little things that build up over the course of my life, looking back now. But at the time, I don’t know what I’m gonna do with any of these. Like, is this, like, do you know what I mean? Like, I was able to I was comfortable behind the a mixer board. But once I decided not to pursue audio engineering as a college major, which was about, you know, halfway through my junior year of high school, I was like, yeah, that maybe not.
00:27:57:50 – 00:28:23:23
Agent Palmer
But once that skill never came back until podcasting. Right. So it’s amazing how those other things. But there’s also a part of me as I get older, despite some of the successes behind me, that I go, I don’t know if I, I think I’m waiting for the right project to have that drive again. I don’t know if I can just turn it on.
00:28:23:27 – 00:28:44:14
Agent Palmer
I think I think the thing that worked for me when I was in college was I was passionate about the college community at that point. It wasn’t just that I was in all these clubs and leadership and whatever or whatever I was really involved. I was literally bleeding blue and orange. I think we’re our college colors, right? So that was the thing.
00:28:44:28 – 00:29:11:34
Agent Palmer
And the podcasting was it within a certain community when all those shows are at that one time where within a certain sub community, and I was passionate about helping all of my friends. Yeah. And I, I think you need that. I don’t know if I could just turn on tomorrow and be like, all right, well, I guess I’m going to go three hours sleep for a couple weeks because I got this thing like, no, I think it has to be that thing.
00:29:11:39 – 00:29:34:58
Evelien
I think that will I think, you know, you still draw on that. I mean, you still, help or helps, you know, many other podcasters produce their shows and that’s also still your community, maybe in a different way, but in a different arena as well. But you’re still drawing on those similar, like passions, right? Yeah. And you’re right.
00:29:34:58 – 00:29:58:18
Evelien
I think that looking back, you know, our, inability to pump the brakes for a while, did set the stage for us to learn how to multitask, function on very little sleep, drink a lot of coffee, and get shit done. That set the stage for, you know, what you’re doing now. I think it certainly set the stage for what I’m doing now.
00:29:58:22 – 00:30:18:57
Evelien
And being able to handle all the million little details, as you say, death by a million cuts. I also said, yes, that’s right. But also there’s a hatchet job coming at you, too. I think all of that in hindsight now that you pointed it out. Yes, you’re right, it absolutely set the stage for us to do the things that we have to do.
00:30:19:01 – 00:30:43:51
Evelien
Every single day in my job, any producing things are changing by the second. And I like in any production, even though if it’s the same show. Yeah, it’s a different animal. It breeds differently, it moves differently, it has its own personality and the variables always change. So anytime I walk into any production, even after doing this for 20, some over 20 something years, I don’t even want to get into the numbers there.
00:30:43:56 – 00:31:19:50
Evelien
I walk in knowing that I have to react. And no, excuse me, I have to respond to how the production moves, but I can’t react. Be reactive to all the things that are exploding behind me or around me because my job as a producer. And I’ll share this because this is a piece of advice that I got from another producer when I worked on, he was a major, producer for many of the award shows, TV shows, and he very like, I was talking to him on set, and he very matter of fact.
00:31:19:50 – 00:31:39:28
Evelien
And there was like a lot of drama, like a lot of chaos happening on the show. And he very matter of factly said, my job as a producer is to manage the drama, not to feed into it. And I was like, whoa, that’s yeah, that’s kind of huge. Like, he’s not going to feed into all of the explosions.
00:31:39:33 – 00:32:05:45
Evelien
He’s got. His job is to manage it. So I always like think of it like The Hurt Locker, you know what I mean? Like, shit is just blowing up everywhere around you and you cannot feed into that. Your job is to calmly walk into that landmine and figure out how to defuze those bombs. And if it’s going up your butt, you got to just deal with it with grace and integrity and make sure everyone else gets out safely.
00:32:05:57 – 00:32:17:21
Evelien
And that’s my job as a producer. So you’re 100% right. Jason, back in the day, I think college definitely prepared both of us to, yeah, to be shot out of a cannon, essentially.
00:32:17:22 – 00:32:47:30
Agent Palmer
Now, I did want to ask you one thing about the industry, because there’s always one thing that that astounds me about Hollywood and media is that you’re always job to job. Yes. Like, unless you’re lucky enough to get on law and order and stay on law and order, you’re you’re you’re you know that as much as you put into this thing right here, right now, you’re going to have to look or hope for something else.
00:32:47:35 – 00:32:56:10
Agent Palmer
How do you I mean, and obviously it kind of ties into everything else we’ve been talking about, but it’s a different mentality when it’s where’s my next check coming from?
00:32:56:15 – 00:32:56:40
Evelien
Right.
00:32:56:51 – 00:33:03:23
Agent Palmer
How how do you manage that? Because that seems like a different thing altogether.
00:33:03:28 – 00:33:23:38
Evelien
Yeah. Like most of my life, everything is always constantly in flux. I am not going to name drop, but I will say that I do work on Law and Order SVU, and I will tell you, and I will only say this because it is truly one of the best shows in terms of cast and crew to work on.
00:33:23:47 – 00:33:45:58
Evelien
They are the greatest group of people, the hardest working group of people, and the kindest group of people. And that will be the only time that I will ever mention a name that I worked with, only because they are just fantastic groups of people, and I love that set. So yeah, I mean, look, even with a show like Law and Order, the crew behind the scenes does change.
00:33:46:02 – 00:33:46:35
Agent Palmer
Okay?
00:33:46:39 – 00:34:10:13
Evelien
So it’s not like I mean, yes, there’s a lot of people that are there very, very long term. There are a lot of people there. There might be a like a handful that have been there since day one. And I’m talking about like behind the scenes. I’m not necessarily talking about on screen. But when you get into the entertainment industry, you’re walking in knowing that you’re walking into an industry that is fluid, it’s constantly changing.
00:34:10:18 – 00:34:29:49
Evelien
It can be volatile. It’s like riding a bucking bull, you know, the landscapes change. You need to stay relevant. You need to stay current. You need to know, you know, all the new technology that’s getting out. And you also need to accept that, you know, as you’re coming up, you’re 20 and moving and shaking and do all these things.
00:34:30:03 – 00:34:59:15
Evelien
Your time will come where someone unseat you when you’re 20, who is in their 20s and 30s. So you have to never forget that show business is a business, okay? And you have to manage your finances as a business that is very much like the stock market. There are great highs and there are very deep lows, and you need to always be prepared for, you know, whatever that turn may come and that’s how you survive.
00:34:59:22 – 00:35:24:07
Agent Palmer
So when you started repping, knowing that it was yours and that you weren’t going I mean, you may have to, you know, change with the times and you might the technology might change, but it’s your show now. You’re you you’ve decided you’re going to host. You are the producer and editor and everything. And you don’t have to worry about if there’s like you get to you officially you are God.
00:35:24:07 – 00:35:31:23
Agent Palmer
Now you get to decide there’s going to be a season five. There’s going to be a season six. Yeah. Or we’re going to stop and I’m going to do something else.
00:35:31:28 – 00:35:32:19
Evelien
Yes.
00:35:32:23 – 00:35:44:18
Agent Palmer
This is a level of control you really I mean, for all of the things you’ve been able to do and put together you, this is the most control and stable project you’ve probably had.
00:35:44:23 – 00:36:06:00
Evelien
Well, yes and no. Because the flip side of it is, you know, I’m not doing it for money. So my day job still remains as a producer director and for television and digital content and films. So that’s still my bread and butter. That’s still my day job. Yeah. So on the flip side of that, you’re right. This is completely my control.
00:36:06:05 – 00:36:25:35
Evelien
I created this. One of the many reasons why I created rappin was to take myself to task. You know, it was completely mine. I didn’t get notes from other executive producers or producers or network or anything. So, you know, pass or fail, it’s all on me, you know, like it’s. What if it sucks? It’s totally me.
00:36:25:35 – 00:36:49:51
Evelien
If it’s doesn’t suck, it’s totally me. But even having said that, I’m going into this knowing that this is about something that I wanted to create and to continue to practice my craft, but, you know, in the sense that, yes, I’m quote unquote, you know, as you are with your podcast, sort of the all and B, all of it.
00:36:49:55 – 00:37:07:40
Evelien
But on the flip side is, you know, I’m still challenged by, well, I want to get this talent and I’m dealing with their schedules and it’s challenging because it’s not working out with my schedule. And then while I’m on location, like for example, in LA, I have to get three episodes edited and that my production is changing, my flights are changing.
00:37:07:40 – 00:37:15:26
Evelien
I’m taking a redeye, but I’ve got to push this out. So there’s a thousand other variables that offset what you just laid out in terms of constants.
00:37:15:33 – 00:37:16:22
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:37:16:27 – 00:37:45:58
Evelien
So, you know, for me, ultimately, production is for me. And I know that there’s a lot of producers out there, and everyone has different reasons for doing what they’re doing and in media and entertainment. But I am, you know, not into, name dropping or being at scenes or events. I do them and I attend them when I am either interested in them or I have to go to them.
00:37:46:00 – 00:37:47:28
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:37:47:33 – 00:38:07:51
Evelien
But ultimately, for me, when I work, I give 1,050%, and when I don’t, I completely step back. And I want to be anonymous, and I want to be with friends that are from kindergarten, that own that don’t own TVs. So if I say they’re, you know, someone’s name, it’s not me name dropping. It’s just talking about my day.
00:38:07:54 – 00:38:30:46
Evelien
Yeah, they don’t even know who the hell I’m talking about or what show I’m talking about. They’re even watch it. So there’s a beauty in that. And for me, that’s a very, stabilizing factor. And it grounds me. And I think my method to my madness in terms of producing is I always want to step back and get my head out of the game.
00:38:30:53 – 00:38:37:06
Evelien
Okay. So I always keep a sharper focus when I come back into it and I’m fresh.
00:38:37:11 – 00:38:52:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, I see that I probably don’t take enough time away from it as I should. Yeah. And I think I know that, especially I, I’m a fair weather runner, so, like, okay.
00:38:52:16 – 00:38:52:48
Evelien
What’s that mean?
00:38:52:48 – 00:39:09:26
Agent Palmer
We’re recording now in the fall, so I’m done. I’m going to hibernate my legs for the next little bit. And when it hits 80 again, I’ll go for my daily runs or whatever. Gotcha. As long as it’s not raining like that, that’s what I mean. Like fair weather. Like, if you give it 80, I’ll. And not raining.
00:39:09:26 – 00:39:29:58
Agent Palmer
I’m fine. I’ll do it. And I definitely think that that takes me out of it. And I think that to an extent, I see I want to say to an extent when I’m reading a book because I prefer old school that I’m taking out of it too. But I review all of those things for the blog. So in the back of my head, that’s still running.
00:39:30:03 – 00:39:31:16
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:39:31:20 – 00:39:32:34
Evelien
Absolutely. It is.
00:39:32:34 – 00:39:52:05
Agent Palmer
I, I think maybe when I’m consuming other podcasts or watching sports, maybe the only two times I really am out of it, but I don’t know if I’m ever really out of it, because even then, that’s an idea for a post or ooh, I should have so and so on. Or like.
00:39:52:10 – 00:39:53:44
Evelien
I mean, it’s inspiration.
00:39:53:44 – 00:40:12:38
Agent Palmer
As much as we want to turn off, tune out and just kind of relax, I think we’re just wired to be always on, like not to speak for you, but like, I even when I’m try even when I’m actively trying to step away, like I still get ideas that I have to write down.
00:40:12:51 – 00:40:50:02
Evelien
Yes. You know, I think creatures like you and I are creatures, creative, creative creatures like you and I. Jason, It’s in our DNA. You know, we we are struck by inspiration. We are struck by things that we want to write and we want to create. I think the difference in terms of the creative people versus, you know, other people that may have great ideas is that we actually, you know, we are fueled and driven to get up and do it, whether it’s in 80 degree weather using your example or just, you know, running all the time, like like Forrest Gump.
00:40:50:06 – 00:41:08:41
Evelien
Yeah. You know, it’s just that’s the only difference. But yeah, I don’t think that we can necessarily turn it off. I mean, there have been multiple times where I’m sleeping and I’m writing a, like, I have a Vo in a voiceover, copy in my head that’s coming together. And then the next morning I put it, put it to paper.
00:41:08:52 – 00:41:12:25
Evelien
So there have been moments like that. I mean, it’s a little sick, but,
00:41:12:29 – 00:41:12:52
Agent Palmer
I.
00:41:12:55 – 00:41:17:21
Evelien
Maybe that’s, So I’m sleep deprived, but, Yeah. You can’t always turn it off.
00:41:17:21 – 00:41:33:37
Agent Palmer
So here, I mean, from a, from a Hollywood perspective. And this is a very like outside the industry kind of question, as a very Hollywood just. No, no, but when you’re in the media, like, you’re, you’re, you’re in the medium of creating that stuff, I know it’s not, you know.
00:41:33:39 – 00:41:37:00
Evelien
I just don’t want people to think that I’m like, well, no. Know, like a or.
00:41:37:00 – 00:42:11:47
Agent Palmer
Something. Oh that’s fair. But like, I to me, the way Hollywood portrays itself is that even as a producer, you still have a screenplay you want to pitch. Yeah, right. That’s true. Is that a thing where Hollywood’s overselling it, or is that really a thing? And I’m not asking you personally if you have a script. I’m just saying, like, are there a lot of producers and like behind the scenes techs that do that are there for their break maybe, perhaps potentially.
00:42:11:52 – 00:42:37:48
Evelien
You know what, I don’t know if it’s break. The people that I’ve worked with are, you know, all super talented for the most part. And they’re involved with pretty big productions, productions that people would be familiar with. I would say this, I just think going back to what you said, creative people like you and I, we always have ideas, things that that inspire us, that we want to create.
00:42:37:52 – 00:43:09:39
Evelien
So we are constantly doing other projects on the side in addition to whatever else we’re doing. Yeah. And I don’t necessarily think that’s like, you know, I mean, yes, there are some scripts or whatever that you’re into. I just think creative types always have other, ideas that they’re passionate about that they want to create. So they’re always doing extra on the side in addition to whatever else they’re doing in front of them.
00:43:09:39 – 00:43:23:19
Evelien
And I certainly, fall into that category. So I don’t think that I’m ever just producing one thing, really. I don’t know that I’ve ever really been bored.
00:43:23:24 – 00:43:53:08
Agent Palmer
I can, I can I don’t know what that I don’t feel like. I, I can tell you that I have been bored before, but to me, it’s a lot like depression. I, I it doesn’t it doesn’t feel right. Like I don’t feel like there are days when I’m not motivated, when that’s something different. But if I’m bored, I’m probably sad because I feel like I always need to be doing something I write.
00:43:53:13 – 00:44:08:43
Agent Palmer
I think I’ve told the story on the podcast, but I don’t know when. So we’re going to go again. So basically, at a certain point after I started the blog, so the blog turns ten, but I think I was a year or two years into the blog, a year and a half in the blog, two years in the blog, three maybe.
00:44:08:48 – 00:44:33:32
Agent Palmer
And I had moved house, basically. And over the process of that, you know, I settled on the house and I have an apartment and a house, and I basically stopped writing for like a summer because it was like, go to work, leave work, go to the house, paint house. Do you know, like it’s fix something, whatever, whatever. Then drive to the apartment, do it over again.
00:44:33:32 – 00:45:04:18
Agent Palmer
So. So when I finally moved in, it’s like the end of October, I went, Okay. All right, now I can. I’m getting back to the blog. It’s I’ve written, like two posts that kind of just came to me, you know, over the course of the last little bit. All right, I’m going to do the year of content, and I’m not only going to write my weekly post on it two posts a week for a rolling year, starting in November, Monday and Thursday.
00:45:04:18 – 00:45:12:05
Agent Palmer
We’re going to do this now. The overachiever I am, of course I did. I didn’t write 104 blog posts.
00:45:12:10 – 00:45:13:27
Evelien
Would you write like 200?
00:45:13:29 – 00:45:36:46
Agent Palmer
No, no, it wasn’t 240 150. Yeah, okay. It’s more like two and a half. Right? Okay. Yeah. But what happened was I gotten to a point where I was writing ahead and this. And so I was prepared so I could do a little longer piece because I wrote these other ones that were done, and I had I was like, all right, well, it’s October, I’m done.
00:45:36:58 – 00:45:51:22
Agent Palmer
The end of October, I’m done. So in November I can go back to for like, this is, you know, my rolling year is over and I’ve got two of them done. So this next week I even took it off of my regular job. I’m like, I’m done. Like I’m taking a week. I’m going to do nothing.
00:45:51:27 – 00:45:52:07
Evelien
Right?
00:45:52:12 – 00:46:10:20
Agent Palmer
I lasted 36 hours before I was like, I can’t. Why? Like I’m bored. I don’t I’m, I like, I, I, I, I played like video games for half of the first day. I watch TV for half of the first day. The second day I like watched two movies. And by the time I was done with the second movie, I was like, I have to do something.
00:46:10:25 – 00:46:13:52
Evelien
Yeah, I’m well, you’re conditioned like an athlete at that point, aren’t you?
00:46:13:52 – 00:46:35:16
Agent Palmer
I well, ironically, it took me a few more months to get back to a one of once a week because I was just writing someone. Now, and maybe it’s because I’m overlapping with the podcast and the blog, despite the fact that I made a conscientious effort that, like, this podcast was going to be every two weeks of the blog can maintain once a week, right?
00:46:35:16 – 00:47:03:10
Agent Palmer
I’m still ahead of the game, but now I’ve learned, like one of the problems I had during that year of content was I refu I like I, I was so excited for it. I couldn’t wait. And now, even if it’s a great post, it can wait until it’s time, until it’s ready. So I have the discipline. I have these pockets where like, oh, okay, well, I’m, I’m good for the rest of the year or like I’m good for the next three months.
00:47:03:17 – 00:47:31:28
Agent Palmer
But you know, and it allows me to deal with writer’s block without having a panic of like, oh no. And I always try to have like a, a pocket episode or a solo episode just in case something happens. Yeah, but that week was an eye opener because I really, you know, I went into that one week going like, I’m, I’m going to rest, like, this is going to be my time to relax.
00:47:31:28 – 00:47:34:09
Agent Palmer
And I, I’m not saying.
00:47:34:09 – 00:47:39:25
Evelien
Did you learn about yourself in that week and how did you what kind of adjustments did you make?
00:47:39:30 – 00:48:01:44
Agent Palmer
You know what? I don’t think I made many adjustments other than the fact, like after like two days, I was like, I have to do something, right. And, you know, I didn’t I didn’t pressure it. I mean, because one of the things that I learned during that year, similar to the college thing is like, if you push yourself hard enough, you can keep going, but stopping is really hard.
00:48:01:44 – 00:48:25:19
Agent Palmer
I think part of it was that week was just mistimed. I think part of it was, yeah, like I was running. And then I decided to stop, not slow down. Yeah, I decided to stop. And I think that’s what I learned is like, oh, okay. Like maybe I should have not maybe I should have waited until the end of the year, like like, yeah.
00:48:25:23 – 00:48:34:45
Agent Palmer
Try and pace back in November, pace back in December and then in January, like build up a cache and then take my next.
00:48:34:45 – 00:48:35:07
Evelien
Yeah.
00:48:35:07 – 00:48:41:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But I, I decided to just be like well I finished those 12 months. Let’s stop now. Right.
00:48:41:10 – 00:49:09:06
Evelien
But Jason, you know, now you know what you how to pace yourself. Right. So isn’t this such a great journey in terms of learning and growing and, you know, making sure that you become a better producer? You, you know, I mean, look, again, I, I’m doing this and I always approach this as a learning experience. You know, this is something that I want to continue to get better at.
00:49:09:06 – 00:49:33:11
Agent Palmer
I think that’s the key that I’ve learned over the last. I mean, the podcast is two, the blog is ten. And that’s because I looked it up and I know these, I finally know these details. But like, yeah, I, I don’t like until I, I didn’t like I was doing research for something else when I realized this was my 10th year with the blog, like it wasn’t something that I was like looking, counting down and looking forward to.
00:49:33:16 – 00:49:57:34
Agent Palmer
But one of the things I have realized is I am always on. But that doesn’t mean I’m always productive. Okay, so if I can strike while the iron is hot and really get it going. That’s great. But I’ve also learned that I, I’m not the same like God like I mean no nobody has to do this listening to this.
00:49:57:34 – 00:50:24:07
Agent Palmer
But go read my first three blog posts like that I don’t I, I don’t hide them growing. That’s a good beautiful thing. But that’s what I’ve learned. I’ve learned that I do need to take stock and learn things and change things and, and I, I mean, the thing I have and I, I would I’m going to wager you have it too with wrap in at least is we are solo, solo endeavors.
00:50:24:07 – 00:50:48:24
Agent Palmer
But we have like a support system of like, friends or people. We bounce ideas off of. So it’s not true. Like it is really a solo effort, but we’re it’s it’s a solo effort with a slight, like, hug, community hug. Yeah. But I have a friend who’s my editor, which is why this year, last year, I read a lot of books, a ton of books, and I would do like four book reviews in a row.
00:50:48:34 – 00:50:56:28
Agent Palmer
So he he was like, all right, well, for 2021, every other post has to not be a book review.
00:50:56:33 – 00:50:57:18
Evelien
Oh, nice.
00:50:57:18 – 00:51:17:48
Agent Palmer
So that’s been a challenge thing for me because I my, my blog tagline has always been of all things geek, which means I got away from the movies and the television and the music and the sports aspect of what I was always writing about before and just doing books now. Obviously the books are about something, but that’s, you know, I’m supposed to be about all mediums.
00:51:17:53 – 00:51:37:33
Agent Palmer
And I had gotten away from that. And now this year I’ve started to get back to it. But it’s like, you know, some posts are longer, some posts are shorter. I’ve evolved to realize that every post of mine is a story, and I’m just going to I’m not going to force it. If I get the story done in 300 words, I get the story done in 300 words.
00:51:37:33 – 00:51:56:40
Agent Palmer
If it takes me 1500, it takes me 1500 like I just have to get it out and that’s it. If you know, if this podcast takes I mean, the podcast is slightly different because I do like try and make sure that no episode will ever be over 90 minutes. Right? But if we get our conversation done in 45, we get our conversation done in 45.
00:51:56:40 – 00:52:08:16
Agent Palmer
And if it takes 75 minutes, it takes 75 minutes, right? Like it’s let it out, but don’t force it. I think the one thing I’ve learned is be fluid. Don’t be afraid to change, but don’t.
00:52:08:16 – 00:52:08:34
Evelien
Write.
00:52:08:36 – 00:52:37:51
Agent Palmer
For shit like, yes, there are going to be plenty of times and scenarios where you don’t have a choice. Yep, yep. And and yep. And right now I can control those things. Yeah. And since I can control those things, I can get better out of myself. I mean, if you want to talk about, like, what I’ve learned producing, it’s if you can get somebody to give you their honesty and their authentic self.
00:52:37:56 – 00:52:41:00
Agent Palmer
That’s better for the project as a whole.
00:52:41:05 – 00:53:07:00
Evelien
Always. Yeah, always always, always. You know, I mean, look, the going back to what you said at the very start of our conversation, this podcast, be it yours, be it mine, for all the people that are podcasting, it is our baby, you know? And for me, my my not podcasting, but my producing philosophy is that I don’t go into any.
00:53:07:00 – 00:53:39:27
Evelien
Again, I don’t go into any production thinking this is the formula for success. Like I said earlier, I see every production, be it television, the podcast, whatever it is, it’s own animal, it’s got its own personality, and you have to just be able to listen to it and do what that particular be it blog post, your writing, podcast episode, TV show or even talent.
00:53:39:31 – 00:54:15:35
Evelien
You know, sometimes I’ll have like for talent on set, like I did just now in LA. I’ll direct them all differently because they’re different people. So allowing yourself the space and the understanding and the permission to be flexible is a big part of producing in any genre and not forcing something. And yeah, you’re right, Jason. I mean, there have been many times where we’re in situations or let me speak for myself, I’ve been in many production situations where I don’t have a choice and I have to make something happen.
00:54:15:40 – 00:54:39:12
Evelien
Be it talking to a volatile actor who is really in no mood for for me at all. And, you know, me taking the brunt of that emotionally or whatever else and making it work or having, sort of a, a crew member that’s not doing what they’re supposed to be doing. You know, that’s all for me.
00:54:39:12 – 00:55:05:04
Evelien
And I know that I don’t have a choice, but I have this is my goal. This is my job, and I have to do it. But again, I think even within those parameters, the understanding of knowing how to approach that and being flexible is huge, because otherwise you’re just going to drive yourself into the ground.
00:55:05:09 – 00:55:09:28
Agent Palmer
You.
00:55:09:33 – 00:55:33:11
Agent Palmer
A fun fact about this episode is that my story of being bored and depressed and telling some tales from my days producing the Stranger conversations is that during my first ever podcast appearance, which was on the Stranger Conversations podcast, I did state that my greatest fear was boredom. It was then collected with other guest answers and put it into an anthology episode full of all the guests greatest fears.
00:55:33:16 – 00:55:56:08
Agent Palmer
And I did take a bit of heat for such a simple answer, but many years removed, it still holds true. Now, the rest of the conversation that you just heard is a great example of why I enjoy production so much. It isn’t just one thing you do have to go with the project because they are all unique. Nothing is universal.
00:55:56:13 – 00:56:25:14
Agent Palmer
Skills and practices might be transferable, but rarely will something that holds true for one project be 100% true for another. Everything is different from episode to episode, show to show, project to project, medium to medium. I could go on, but I won’t. The point is, are you being flexible? Are you preparing yourself for something with the mindset that when it comes time, you can adapt because adaptability is necessary?
00:56:25:26 – 00:56:50:02
Agent Palmer
It’s not suggested, it’s required because if there is one constant, it’s change. Can you be ready? Will you be ready? Are you ready? Think about that. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 59. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
00:56:50:11 – 00:57:14:54
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest Evelien at Rep Podcast that’s reppin podcast, and this show at The Palmer Files. You can find Evelien’s Rep in Podcast, a podcast about stories of courage, empowerment, diversity, Perspect acceptance and more. Wherever you find your podcasts and you can find more information, at campsite Dot biography and podcast.
00:57:14:55 – 00:57:32:23
Agent Palmer
Again, that’s our episode! Podcast email can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent Palmer dot com.
00:57:32:28 – 00:57:37:48
Unknown
Here.
00:57:37:53 – 00:57:46:42
Unknown
You need.
00:57:46:46 – 00:58:08:44
Unknown
Me?
00:58:08:49 – 00:58:15:17
Agent Palmer
She all right? Evelien, do you have one final question for me?
00:58:15:22 – 00:58:28:57
Evelien
Yes. Jason. What is the one conversation and topic that you find most challenging to have? But would like to have? And with who?
00:58:29:02 – 00:59:05:36
Agent Palmer
So the the first thing that comes to mind is process conversations, because it’s a lot of pausing and thinking and trying to figure out how to explain things that are basically unexplainable. Oh, because how do I write a blog post? I don’t think about it, I just do. I think I know some of the processes that go into it, but when I sit down, it comes out of me, you know, how do I do this show?
00:59:05:36 – 00:59:30:25
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah, I mean, I do some prep work, I invite you on and we schedule a time and then I explain to you what’s going to happen. But after I ask you that first question, I don’t know how this works. Right. And I think organic and I think that process is like that for a lot of things. Like we can distill it down in pieces, but there are always going to be pieces we don’t we can’t explain or that we have trouble putting into words.
00:59:30:25 – 00:59:36:36
Agent Palmer
And I love process, so that would be it. Who would I talk to?
00:59:36:40 – 00:59:42:15
Evelien
Who would be the the the ultimate get in terms of having a process interview.
00:59:42:15 – 00:59:42:46
Agent Palmer
AI.
00:59:42:46 – 00:59:43:57
Evelien
For conversation.
00:59:43:57 – 01:00:11:56
Agent Palmer
So so there’s definitely I probably have as I’m stretching, I probably have like 2 or 3 people that would fill this void for me. The first would be Maron, because he’s got a very unique style of interviewing on his show, and he’s a comedian and writer. So there’s so many different processes to dissect and discuss that it would be fun.
01:00:12:01 – 01:00:36:11
Agent Palmer
And yeah, the other one that really pops to mind is, Douglas Copeland, who’s also a writer, but who has also dabbled in some other mediums. And again, it’s a process thing. You know, I, you know, I’ve, I’ve listened to most of Marin shows. Right. And I watch his television show and I’ve seen his stand ups and I’ve read I’m, I’m halfway through reading through Doug Copeland’s bibliography, basically.
01:00:36:15 – 01:01:16:40
Agent Palmer
So I understand the consuming aspect of it, but the creation aspect of it, I’m always going to be fascinated by that, and I think I’m always going to be fascinated by it in terms of needing the conversation for the process, like talking to you right here, right now. Because, yeah, we have those, you know, behind the scenes like DVD commentaries, but yes, but they don’t talk a lot about process in terms of, yeah, maybe, maybe they’ll be like, you know, and so I told the actor this, that and the other thing, but it always feels like they’re skating the surface of the process instead of really talking about the iceberg underneath.
01:01:16:45 – 01:01:17:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:01:17:17 – 01:01:19:10
Evelien
And so I mean, it’s granular.
01:01:19:12 – 01:01:44:23
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Yeah. But but that’s I, I find that enjoyable because first of all it’s, it’s the one thing that feels truly unique to an individual. We all have twitters right. We all have. Right. You know this that and the other thing. But your process is like your DNA. It’s yeah it’s true. It, it might be similar but it will not be the same.
01:01:44:28 – 01:02:08:34
Agent Palmer
And and in that regard it’s a hard thing to have because again I sit down and I write well. But, but but how do you write I don’t know. Right. And so, so in order to get a little more granular and a little more concrete about it, it’s a hard conversation to have because I even now I’m struggling to go, I, I write like, right.
01:02:08:36 – 01:02:32:45
Agent Palmer
I take it comes out like sometimes I don’t get to get to my computer in time. So I pick up a notepad or if I’m really struggling or I pick up my phone, I’m, I’m I’m better typing on a keyboard. I’m better writing in a on a on a piece of paper. I am least success for when getting brain to to phone keyboard.
01:02:32:45 – 01:02:33:05
Agent Palmer
Yes.
01:02:33:05 – 01:02:43:21
Evelien
No. I have the same problem. I have the same problem. Basically because I can’t see anymore and I also for some reason have fat sausage thumbs and I’m constantly hitting the wrong keys.
01:02:43:21 – 01:02:51:16
Agent Palmer
I don’t think it has anything to do with the size of your thumbs, because my thumbs have not grown at all, and I went from being able to type to not being able to type.
01:02:51:16 – 01:03:07:52
Evelien
Okay, so here’s the here’s the pro tip that I use to get around that is voice diction. Even though it comes off like completely. Autocorrect screws me every single time. But it is. It is a good shortcut when you’re in the gym. Okay. Yeah, I love that. No. Has anyone asked you that question before?
01:03:08:03 – 01:03:33:51
Agent Palmer
Oh no no no no no I, I’ve had a few like if you could interview somebody or if you could write a biography about somebody, but never that and you know what. Good. I feel like a process junky. It feels like not enough people I don’t. Yeah, unless people are like, I feel like people are only process junkies when they’re getting ready to do something.
01:03:33:53 – 01:03:57:52
Agent Palmer
Like they’ll ask me or you how to do a podcast because they want to do their own, not because they’re curious for how it happens. I agreed, I don’t care, like I will ask you for as many times as you will say yes, how you do that? Because I’m just interested. Because maybe I can take one piece of that and apply it to something else, right?
01:03:57:55 – 01:03:59:06
Agent Palmer
Like we’re not doing doing.
01:03:59:06 – 01:04:01:22
Evelien
Okay. Jason, I don’t think you need me.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).