Agent Palmer

Episode 56 features Skye Pillsbury, publicist, writer, journalist, marketer, technologist, and wearer of many other hats. We talk about technology, the cyclical nature of things, podcasting, the early internet, cultural Judaism, and much much more.

Throughout the conversation, we discuss:

• Technology
• The cyclical nature of things
• The Audio Boom
• The Early Internet
  • AOL Is Not the Internet
  • Netscape
• Podcasting
  • Being late to the game?
  • Still in it’s infancy?
  • What is this medium?
• Understanding and Explaining the Next Technology
• Journalism
  • Defining Journalist
  • Understanding the discipline
  • Instincts of a Journalist
• Podcast preparation
• Text, Audion or Video?
• Writing
• Editing
• Nervousness and Anxiety
• Cultural Judaism
• Asking Why
• And much more

Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.

–End Show Notes Transmission–

–Begin Transcription–

00:00:00:07 – 00:00:21:58
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Plmer dot com. Yiddish policemen’s union wrapped in surrealist Jewish musings. If I can do it for me, I can do it for you. And I can’t wait for Kael to publish his first book, whatever it happens to be. This is The Palmer Files episode 56 featuring Skye Pillsbury publicist, writer, journalist, marketer, technologist and where of many other hats.

00:00:22:08 – 00:00:47:32
Agent Palmer
We talk about technology, the cyclical nature of things, podcasting, the early internet, cultural Judaism, and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.

00:00:47:37 – 00:01:03:23
Agent Palmer
You.

00:01:03:28 – 00:01:26:29
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 56th episode is Skye Pillsbury, whose career titles may be varied with the likes of publicist, journalist, marketer and writer. But her career, industry and her passion is technology. As you’ll hear more about soon. The discussion is long and varied, so I’ll keep this intro as short as possible.

00:01:26:42 – 00:01:48:12
Agent Palmer
Technology is a common theme, but we talk about what is journalism and who is a journalist. The early internet and how people have or have not adjusted to technology as it evolves. We talk about podcasting because as Skye was once the author of the Inside Podcasting newsletter and was once host of the Inside Podcasting podcast, she’s one of my go to sources for the medium.

00:01:48:13 – 00:02:12:35
Agent Palmer
Plus, we also discuss so many more things, including choosing a favorite medium, anxiety, and cultural Judaism. Now, before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer. My guest, Skye at Skye Pillsbury. That’s Skye E Pillsbury, and this show at the Palmer Files for all things Skye.

00:02:12:37 – 00:02:30:13
Agent Palmer
Following her on Twitter is the most efficient way to keep up with all of the articles she’s writing for various publications, and it’s a great way to stay in the know on the audio industry. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember your home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.

00:02:30:17 – 00:02:40:17
Agent Palmer
So without further ado, let’s log on.

00:02:40:22 – 00:03:03:54
Agent Palmer
Skye. I want to call you a technologist because you’ve been in and around technology for a long time. Are you amazed at how cyclical things are? Like you, you started a new. You know, you were writing for a newsletter. You started a podcast. Who knew? Like, if I had asked you ten years ago. Yeah. You have a newsletter?

00:03:03:59 – 00:03:25:50
Agent Palmer
Newsletters are back. What? And podcasting. I is always going to be on demand radio to me. Because I explain it to a lot of people that don’t listen. And it’s like, well, audio is a medium is back. Why are we back to these things? Like it’s supposed to be a video world, right?

00:03:25:55 – 00:03:48:22
Skye Pillsbury
Well, you know what’s funny is this reminds me of a conversation I had in clubhouse, and we were just sort of, like, shooting the breeze. I think it was like. Nick. And Ashley from The Verge and Evo, I think, was the one who said, Evo Terra said something like, we are. We are all sort of like talk.

00:03:48:24 – 00:04:17:27
Skye Pillsbury
It was Nick’s first time on clubhouse, so we were sort of welcoming him there and trying to help them understand it. And Evo said something like, you know, really, it’s funny because this is just like, like one 900 numbers from the 90s, like where you would, like, meet up with strangers on a phone call like you call number, not like a sex line, but like you call the number you you’d like in quotes, like meet up with random stranger.

00:04:17:31 – 00:04:45:22
Skye Pillsbury
And it was like to to do when you were bored lonely, looking for random fan like whatever. And the only difference really with clubhouse, I mean, there are differences in that. You can see what’s on your screen and you can, you know, pull people up to a stage. And of course, like the technology has changed since then, but really it’s like glamorized, you know, old school group chat lines.

00:04:45:36 – 00:05:02:58
Skye Pillsbury
And it was, you know, I hadn’t it was one of my first times on clubhouse two, so I hadn’t really had time to digest what is this thing that we’re doing? But that really resonated with me. Like, I, I don’t think I ever called those numbers, but I definitely knew about them back in the day.

00:05:02:58 – 00:05:31:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah. See, back in the day, I’m on a date myself. Like, I was probably too young in that heyday, but I was also ahead of the curve technology wise. So I was a a technological snob. That was like, oh, you’re on AOL, IRC and IQ are so much better. Like, I was that kid, right? Like, so in high school, that was the thing.

00:05:31:20 – 00:05:51:50
Agent Palmer
And there were a bunch of us that were on IQ. And then we looked down on the AOL people, and then by the time I got to college in the early aughts, AOL was king. Everything else had basically disappeared. And, you know, how is that not what discord is now? Right? Like discord is just all of your friends.

00:05:51:50 – 00:06:03:54
Agent Palmer
They’re either online, they’re playing a game, or they’re away. The only thing discord needs to bring back like that IQ, AOL vibe, is to be like, this is your away message.

00:06:03:59 – 00:06:27:49
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah, yeah, that’s true. It’s funny. I mean, I remember definitely thinking that anyone on AOL was kind of like a little bit lame. Like, it felt like this, like contrived world. I, I’ve actually never even seen the interface for AOL or the agency I worked with at the time. The people who ran that agency, I think, also thought it was lame.

00:06:27:49 – 00:06:59:53
Skye Pillsbury
So it was sort of like trickle down culture. Like all of us were like, no, no, no, that’s not how you get on the internet. And on the other hand, though, I will also I do want to point out, because you did describe me as a technologist, and I do want to make it clear, you know, for for your listeners or just within this conversation, that I don’t think of myself that way, even though I have worked in and around technology for my entire career.

00:06:59:58 – 00:07:25:03
Skye Pillsbury
You know, my job has always been whether I’m a publicist or whether, you know, or in more recent years, you know, on the writing side of it and basically just jumped the fence. I’ve always thought that my job is to explain a technology, to find out how to explain it in regular terms so that, like, people can actually understand what it means.

00:07:25:03 – 00:07:46:27
Skye Pillsbury
So I just don’t want to pretend to be someone who is like, you know, really, really well versed in. I mean, I think I have the kind of brain where I can go pretty deep, like with the founder of a company, a technology company, and, and, and rocket pretty quickly. But like, I’ve never written a line of code.

00:07:46:32 – 00:07:47:40
Skye Pillsbury
I would just say, well.

00:07:47:45 – 00:08:08:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but I don’t think you need in order to be a technologist. I don’t think you need to. I think you need to have that brain to understand it. I, I think especially where we are now, there’s the haves and the have nots in terms of I put this in your hand, whatever it is, and you can either figure out how it works.

00:08:08:18 – 00:08:26:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You don’t like I, I love my mother. She’s not a technologist. My mother will I will always and forever need to explain it to her or show it to her, because that’s who she is. And that’s fine. But I and I’ve always been one of those up and to a certain point, I, I’ve always been able to get it.

00:08:26:56 – 00:08:53:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And and now I find myself going back to my high school and college attitudes of this is how you use it. You’re using it wrong or like you don’t get it and and you being like just anybody else, right? Like I, I didn’t know AOL either. I knew AOL from You’ve Got Mail, like the movie. That’s how I knew the AOL interface.

00:08:53:13 – 00:09:27:19
Agent Palmer
Otherwise, I don’t know whatever. Like when I was in college, my dorm room, we used those the, the, like the the the the poster tag to hang up for free. AOL, our CDs backwards. So you just saw the reflection and covered a wall with it because they were, you know, carpet bombing everything with it. And I honestly yeah, I went from prodigy in the mid 90s to the internet at large with Netscape and completely skipped AOL.

00:09:27:19 – 00:09:30:29
Agent Palmer
So I, I was a snob. I was like, what are you doing?

00:09:30:34 – 00:09:52:34
Skye Pillsbury
What is this? I have the same experience. Yeah, yeah. It’s funny. I mean, to think back to those days, like, I remember when Marc Andreessen was on the cover of whatever it was like time magazine. And I mean, just thinking back to that whole world, I feel like that was like a different life that I loved when, you know, I saw the web before any of my friends.

00:09:52:43 – 00:10:19:51
Skye Pillsbury
I had an email address before any of my friends. So I was that like my father had been involved in technology and I had a somewhat of a fascination with it because of him. But no one else I knew was going into the field. And so it was. And then it was just great timing. I mean, I think because I loved at least the first decade of it.

00:10:19:55 – 00:10:46:43
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. And it’s weird. Now, also, when you said cyclical, I was sort of thinking about how in some ways my career path has been cyclical and that I feel like I was able to be part of that world as it was exploding. I mean, that was the beginning of so many things. And really have a front row seat in my lit little corner of the world, at least.

00:10:46:48 – 00:10:54:23
Skye Pillsbury
And then now, I mean, I’m definitely late to podcasts. I recognize the people in podcasting for almost 20 years.

00:10:54:25 – 00:11:22:07
Agent Palmer
I don’t think you are. I honestly like I, I don’t think you’re late to podcasts in that it’s still not established as a medium. And as much as, you know, Maron’s done a thousand episodes, right? Hardwick, if you count his first and his last show, Kevin Smith you know, Rogan if you count their thousands of shows these guys have done, and even on a weekly or biweekly basis, it’s ten years.

00:11:22:07 – 00:11:38:40
Agent Palmer
It’s 12 years, it’s whatever. I still don’t think I still think podcast is in its infancy. It’s not established like blogging as an example started, and it took like a decade for it to become ubiquitous, for people to understand what it was.

00:11:38:45 – 00:11:39:08
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah.

00:11:39:08 – 00:12:05:42
Agent Palmer
And but but because it was text, because the internet was more primitive, it was easier to figure out what blogging was. Podcasting is. So not that that I feel like it’ll be another 5 or 6 years before people figure out what to do with it, you know? So I don’t think you’re late to the game like, because I will gladly admit, like my blog turns ten this year and I was late to blogging.

00:12:05:47 – 00:12:21:16
Agent Palmer
But this show turned to this year and I don’t think I was late to podcast. I mean, I wasn’t an A pioneer, but I’m still going to consider myself one of the early adopters because right now, it’s still unlike yeah, it’s still unknown.

00:12:21:20 – 00:12:44:56
Skye Pillsbury
That sort of reminds me of another thing which is totally unrelated to podcast, but I went to Burning Man two years in a row. I think it was 99 in 2000. And I remember for some reason, this just triggering that memory of like, I was going to Burning Man for the first time and I thought I was we were already like, we are so late to the Burning Man game.

00:12:45:00 – 00:13:07:11
Skye Pillsbury
And now I have people say to me all the time, I really want to go to Burning Man, but I just feel like I’m so late. And it’s so ironic because you don’t when you’re in the moment and you can’t see the future. Yeah, you have no perspective on like, the beginning and the like. You don’t understand the history that you’re a part of until you’re further away from it.

00:13:07:13 – 00:13:23:20
Skye Pillsbury
You know, like maybe Burning Man will go on for the next hundred years. You know, we don’t know. And it’s just it’s interesting. I mean, it’s also I mean, I also I just listen to, 912 by Dan to Barsky. Have you listened to it?

00:13:23:22 – 00:13:31:41
Agent Palmer
Not yet. Now I’ve, I’ve a very weird relationship with that particular event because of where I, you know, I.

00:13:31:46 – 00:13:32:16
Skye Pillsbury
Know me.

00:13:32:27 – 00:13:54:35
Agent Palmer
Well. So I was in college. It was a very weird day, right? Like, I can picture the day, you know, I went to college in northeastern Pennsylvania, so, like, there were a lot of kids from the city. And, you know, it was just one of those there are little elements of it that are just weird to me.

00:13:54:39 – 00:14:17:03
Agent Palmer
My girlfriend at the time woke up for class. She never did. Right? Like, she went to her her. She went to her 8 a.m. class, which is why I was awake to watch the news. Right? Like that never happened. Like any other time in any. If that happens at any other day, like I’m still asleep, somebody’s going to wake me up like you hear the stories of people like, wake up, this is going, you know, so that.

00:14:17:03 – 00:14:47:25
Agent Palmer
And then I was, we’ll call me an overachiever, is what okay. An under it academically, I was an underachiever. But, outside of the classroom, in clubs and organizations, super overachiever. Okay, so I was a journalist for the newspaper, the campus newspaper at the time. And so no one else in my journalism class or the classes around me cared about hard news at all.

00:14:47:30 – 00:15:06:24
Agent Palmer
So I called the editor, which was our one teacher. We have a like a monthly newspaper. And I was like, I will write this. And I did. And so it and it’s just, you know, and then I remember drinking in a hot tub later that night going, what the hell did we just live through? Right? Like we didn’t even know.

00:15:06:24 – 00:15:30:29
Agent Palmer
Like it’s not even, like, been a day, and we’re just like, I was underage. Like, you know, the statute of limitations is up. Like, we’re everybody. We’re drinking, like, was just what you did. How else are we going to cope? We’re like 17, 18, 19. Like what do we do. You know. So for me, every time it comes up, unless I find a way to be super busy, I am immediately transported back to that week.

00:15:30:34 – 00:15:52:59
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I, I, I’m not uncomfortable with being transported back there, but it feels like I’ve not moved on. Like I didn’t know anybody directly. Right? It it only impacted my life in the ways that, you know, 911 affected the way this country divided itself and how our response was. But it wasn’t, you know, and in history and all this stuff.

00:15:52:59 – 00:16:22:22
Agent Palmer
But for me, I just it’s nice to remember, it’s nice to, you know, but I just I can’t always continue to go back there. But what’s interesting and kind of goes back to the technology is that was 20 years ago and 20 years ago there was no podcasting. And 20 years ago, you know, maybe there was a newsletter and, or or, you know, BBS were still existing 20 years ago.

00:16:22:26 – 00:16:49:29
Agent Palmer
I enjoy reading and I enjoy reading about history, but mainly I read about technology and space. These are the two things I use and biographies. But when you go and you read a book like a a history book on NASA and like The Moonshots and the missions to the moon, it feels like a million years ago, right? Like it feels like forever ago.

00:16:49:34 – 00:17:09:19
Agent Palmer
And when you read about technology in the same breath, it feels like a million years ago because the internet was spawned around the same. The technology for the internet was spawned around the same time we were trying to go to the moon. But the internet, as far as we know it today, is only about 40 years old as we know it today.

00:17:09:22 – 00:17:46:03
Agent Palmer
So I’m reading history books from my lifetime. Yeah, 9/11 happened 20 years ago, which is also during my like. It’s just so weird that we talk about cyclical, but in this in the grand scheme of like history history, it’s supposed to be hundreds of years or thousands of years. Like, not 20, not five, not ten. You know, when I entered my first professional job, newsletters were a thing you had to do, but they were becoming less and less because people weren’t reading them.

00:17:46:03 – 00:18:12:01
Agent Palmer
People were opening them. Now, had you either kept doing one or started one a few years ago? We’re in the golden age again of this. It’s like I’m I’m, I go back to like the technologist because you’ve been around it. There’s no rhyme or reason to any of this stuff. Like, we really don’t know which way the wind is going to blow.

00:18:12:06 – 00:18:13:43
Skye Pillsbury
Right? No we don’t.

00:18:13:43 – 00:18:33:07
Agent Palmer
And I call you a technologist because you can adapt to it. I can adapt to it. My mother. I have to hold her hand. You know what I mean? Like that. And. And what’s that? What? What I find interesting is it’s not people my mother’s age. It just happens to be like my father. I don’t have to hold his hand.

00:18:33:08 – 00:18:41:27
Agent Palmer
He’s good. But I have friends that are my age or younger that just don’t get it. Like, oh, what’s that?

00:18:41:32 – 00:18:42:16
Skye Pillsbury
Right.

00:18:42:20 – 00:19:01:48
Agent Palmer
Well, I don’t how do you like. And then trying to explain it to somebody because it’s not my thing. Like I, I’m not on Snapchat but I understand what it is. I’m not on TikTok, but I understand what it is. And because it’s not my thing, how do I explain it to somebody who’s just like, so I saw this on the news.

00:19:01:53 – 00:19:21:28
Agent Palmer
I don’t I don’t know how to help you like it’s it’s moving picture. It’s it’s another form of YouTube. What do you want from me. Like I, I’m out of because what I find amazing is how am I going to explain this in two years when it’s the next new thing or three times removed from that, right?

00:19:21:32 – 00:19:46:14
Skye Pillsbury
Right. Yeah, yeah, it’s all, it’s all about. Like not being able to see what’s coming. We can’t possibly see the future and I, I absolutely see the point that you made about, you know, it’s hard to look back at that particular tragedy we were talking about earlier. And to revisit that feels maybe not productive, maybe a little bit heavy.

00:19:46:27 – 00:20:12:23
Skye Pillsbury
So I’m going to quickly just on that. No. Yeah. And I have no skin in this game at all. But for me, the reason why I was intrigued to listen to it is because it’s not actually about 911. Okay. Like it’s not about I don’t want to relive the trauma that I definitely felt. I mean, you know, you were talking about your day and and I had a also bizarre day.

00:20:12:28 – 00:20:32:01
Skye Pillsbury
But like, the one thing that stands out is I do remember, like, I actually went to a rave that Friday night and I had but this is when we all felt like United briefly as a country. And I bought totally out of character for me, like bought an American flag hat. It was like it was it was, it was, it was it.

00:20:32:05 – 00:20:34:53
Agent Palmer
Was it one of the Doctor Seuss like top hats?

00:20:34:58 – 00:21:00:26
Skye Pillsbury
No, no, no, it was like a beanie. Okay. It was cool. It was like knitted. Oh, okay. And it it had like, stars and stripes on it. And I wore that to the rave and I danced all frickin night and with, like, people, we were all, we were in this, like, warehouse. And we were all just like, we have to dance.

00:21:00:26 – 00:21:26:51
Skye Pillsbury
Like we have to dance. We have to laugh. We have to celebrate the fact that we are still on this earth. Yeah. And we’re going to figure this out. Of course, we had no idea all the other tragic stuff that was going to come there was it was in that moment where we felt united. And I feel like what this podcast does is it takes very specific stories about what happened in the aftermath as nine over 11 became more of an idea.

00:21:27:00 – 00:21:49:41
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah, and not really an event. And it talks about sort of the ripple effects of that across in like one incredible episode is the like comedians like what how did they handle it. And they, they go to this whole they basically profile the onion. Do you remember the onion like I remember when it came out and it was print.

00:21:49:41 – 00:21:50:19
Skye Pillsbury
You know.

00:21:50:20 – 00:21:59:25
Agent Palmer
I still have a I don’t know what it would be a compilation magazine that’s like maybe a half inch of like the best of The Onion.

00:21:59:25 – 00:22:23:51
Skye Pillsbury
I love the onion. I still love it so much. And to hear them, I mean, they cry during the interviews. I mean, it’s really heartfelt. So to me, it was like a really different take on like, I mean, and also just like, who was Osama bin laden? And like trying to see things, not to say that Osama was a great person by any stretch.

00:22:23:51 – 00:22:49:01
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. But that there is that conversation that we are all unwilling to have about what were his motivations and why. And that is like sacrilege, right? It takes a really unique, imaginative, complex approach to looking at what has life become and how is life changed in fundamental ways.

00:22:49:01 – 00:23:17:48
Agent Palmer
So to me, it goes it all. All of this goes back to Marc Andreessen, because Andreessen at one point said if you lowered the intellectual educational cost of entry to the internet, it’s going to become a dumpster fire. I’m I’m I’m paraphrasing. He said something much more actually, like grandiose and like, nice. But basically what he said was, if you let everybody on here, it’s going to change.

00:23:17:53 – 00:23:45:26
Agent Palmer
And I feel like as one of those early adopters who was on when you needed a technical know how to connect and to get on to a BBS or a and, you know, those were conversation. These are conversations we could have had, I think the tough conversations or conversations we could have had. Now, if I ask the question, well, you know, bin laden was financed by us for a decade before all of that stuff.

00:23:45:31 – 00:24:05:20
Agent Palmer
Right? And that’s an anti I can’t you can’t say that like it doesn’t matter if it’s truth. It doesn’t matter if it’s faulty. Right. Like it could be like that. I mean if you do your research that will be buried out to be true. But even if it wasn’t like, oh, well, you know, he loved pink socks. It doesn’t matter if you say anything.

00:24:05:25 – 00:24:33:01
Agent Palmer
We now have, you’re wrong. You’re right. And when the cost of entry to the internet was a technological know how, we were all a little more forgiving. Like we were all we were. Oh, okay. Well, you had to make sure that you were connected to the proper IP with the right port. So I’m going to give you a pass and, or at the very least, I’m going to hear you out now.

00:24:33:01 – 00:24:56:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Because the internet is one click away and everybody thinks it’s a birthright. Yes. It’s just like, well, now, you know, I was I booted my phone, I booted up so I’m now on the internet and you have to hear me out like, no, I don’t know, I don’t like I my favorite thing now is I’m a, I’m a, a Twitter snob.

00:24:56:43 – 00:25:21:13
Agent Palmer
I guess you would call me I, I have a couple. There’s a thousand people following me, and that’s great. And I like interacting with people. I follow 200 people or less, actually. And I see people complain. Twitter is a dumpster fire. Is it? Or are you just following too many people like Twitter’s not Facebook and Facebook’s not Twitter.

00:25:21:13 – 00:25:45:04
Agent Palmer
And one of the things that gets kind of mixed up as we talk about, like this knowledge barrier when we make things easier to access, is that they all get homogenized. People think all social media is equal. It’s not they’re not the same thing. Technically. YouTube is a social media. You can follow people, you can subscribe to them, you can do the same thing on Facebook and Twitter.

00:25:45:04 – 00:26:01:45
Agent Palmer
And but like it’s the tool if I want to if you want to use a hammer to build a house that perfect, that’s great. If I want to use a hammer to bash somebody’s face in, that’s on me. Like, that’s my fault.

00:26:01:50 – 00:26:02:46
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah.

00:26:02:50 – 00:26:18:55
Agent Palmer
And and as we talk about technology and people like what? Why? Like, why can’t we do it like, this is why we can’t have nice things. Because somebody is going to go out there and use this hammer as a weapon. Yeah. And that’s what Twitter has become. That’s what Facebook has become.

00:26:19:00 – 00:26:38:59
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. And YouTube and all the platforms all that. Yeah. And and how really can we expect things to go a different way. But it’s a perfect storm. Also just having you know polarizing issues and then these platforms and everyone thinks that they’re pundit. And yeah it’s a confusing time.

00:26:39:01 – 00:26:57:27
Agent Palmer
I, I want to ask you because you, you were a journalist along the way in your journey. Yeah. And a couple episodes ago I was told I was a journalist because of what I do. And I’m sharing stories and, you know, on my blog, I’m writing. Yeah. Because of the podcast. Well, and because of the blog.

00:26:57:41 – 00:26:58:19
Skye Pillsbury

00:26:58:24 – 00:27:23:59
Agent Palmer
But, I don’t feel like a journalist like you don’t, you know what I mean. Like and what. Yeah. I mean potentially everybody’s abundant but you know, I don’t think everybody’s a pundit. I don’t think everybody is a journalist. Is that, is that like me being like is that is that, is that just me being unaccepting of a title or like, you were a real journalist.

00:27:24:03 – 00:27:25:25
Agent Palmer
So like.

00:27:25:30 – 00:27:50:44
Skye Pillsbury
I mean, I still consider myself one. Okay. I, I think, you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts where the people are really clear that they are not journalists. Like, for example, like ear hustle comes to mind, like, like the hosts of your hustle are always very clear. We are not journalists. We are creators. And we are listening to people.

00:27:50:44 – 00:28:26:53
Skye Pillsbury
But we don’t. We’re not like, I mean, I’m sure they’re doing some fact checking, but it’s not like it doesn’t have that, like journalistic, you know, text book idea of like, yeah, you won’t print something or say something if it hasn’t, you know, been vetted and blah, blah, blah. Like, they are just I’ve often thought about this actually, about being a potential story idea, which would be like, what is the difference between being a storyteller or, you know, a podcast interviewer and like quote unquote, true journalism?

00:28:26:58 – 00:28:53:51
Skye Pillsbury
Because I think a lot of podcasts struggle with that. I think a lot of podcasters like you, but also otherwise struggle with it, like, I mean, I think the most egregious example is when The New York Times put out that Caliphate podcast, which, you know, was about, you know, as opposed, you know, ISIS fighter. And it ended up it was totally they were duped, like the guy was not.

00:28:53:51 – 00:29:19:05
Skye Pillsbury
And they hadn’t done their fact checking. And and so I think that in my mind at that time, it was really front and center for me. Like, like if you’re going to make a podcast. Like what? I don’t think that we’ve clearly defined the difference and telling stories and hearing people’s stories and, and actually writing like a deeply reported fact check story.

00:29:19:05 – 00:29:54:15
Skye Pillsbury
Right. Like and I don’t and I think that there is some crossover like I, I personally don’t have a problem, but mainly dependent on the content that someone’s putting out there saying that someone is a journalist as long as they, you know, are following basic guidelines and, you know, are sort of respecting sort of those rules of journalism, but so much of the rules of journalism have changed in podcasting, because your own personal experience and emotion is often part of the story.

00:29:54:20 – 00:30:23:35
Skye Pillsbury
And that right there is a departure from what traditional journalism is, where you don’t want to be part of the story. You’re supposed to sort of take a backseat and say, you know, and have no voice in it. But I think that’s what also makes podcasts special. So it feels like there’s there’s a gray area there. But, you know, if you’re the New York Times, then I think you have to stick to the rules of strict journalism.

00:30:23:35 – 00:30:26:11
Skye Pillsbury
They made a mistake by not doing that in my mind.

00:30:26:13 – 00:30:40:31
Agent Palmer
But but how much of it is on? I don’t know what. I don’t know what I call them, the audience, the user like, because I don’t want to have to get at the top. I don’t want to have to create a drop at the top of my show that says, hi, I’m not a journalist. Like, I don’t.

00:30:40:31 – 00:30:42:46
Skye Pillsbury
Know, you know how you know you.

00:30:42:51 – 00:31:06:51
Agent Palmer
But but I also feel like I’m a I’m a book reviewer, but I still don’t consider myself a journalist, you know what I mean? Like, I also don’t have a thing on my blog that says, like, I’m I’m not a journalist. Like, and how much of that is on the user to know, like, this is just a guy who’s, who’s talking to somebody else or who’s who read a book and wants to tell me about it, like, and and that should be apparent.

00:31:06:55 – 00:31:34:22
Agent Palmer
You know what I mean? Like my, my, my, my podcast is my podcast and I, I wear me on my sleeve at all times. And my blog is a caricature of myself. And it’s not a professional website like it’s a professional looking website. But there’s a there’s a typewriter, there’s a d20, there’s a, an overhead glass of coffee, cup of coffee and an overhead glass of scotch.

00:31:34:29 – 00:31:51:40
Agent Palmer
You should know that I’m not the New York Times, right? Like you should know that when you come to my site. So how much of it is on the user who’s like, well, this guy says that this book is amazing. And the times said that this book was shit. So who am I going to believe? You know, like and or were you.

00:31:51:40 – 00:32:25:05
Skye Pillsbury
Just I think that was your book review log or any other book review writing that you’re doing? I think that that is journalism. Because journalism also journalists write opinion pieces, you know, it’s not like it depends on the content and the stated intention of the content. You’re not if you’re doing a book review, you’re not that that journalism is all is supposed to be your review.

00:32:25:14 – 00:32:51:33
Skye Pillsbury
If you’re if you’re writing about what happened in Afghanistan, you need to do your fact checking. That is like a political issue. I, I think if there are journalists of all different shapes and sizes and the amount of accountability that you have to to say the words, we’re not journalists depends on, well, your level of comfort with saying it or not saying it.

00:32:51:38 – 00:33:04:52
Skye Pillsbury
But it also depends, I think, on what type of writing or journalism you’re you’re doing. I mean, you’re definitely a writer, right? So I guess look.

00:33:04:53 – 00:33:27:25
Agent Palmer
Look, I’m going to tell you this, you are blowing my college brain right now because I loved writing editorials. Writing an editorial was the greatest thing in the history of writing. When I was when I was, whether it was feature writing or journalism, 101 or 2 or whatever, like editorial, I love editorial. Listen to this podcast, The beginning, the end.

00:33:27:25 – 00:34:05:48
Agent Palmer
What? Of course I love editorial. Who doesn’t? This is my opinion. Bam, right. But I was I was always taught, maybe rightly or wrongly or indifferent, that the editorial was the ice cream. Right. Like so that’s the, that’s, that’s the you get to do editorial after 20 years of hard journalism like, yeah, you know, because this is a college newspaper, you get to do an editorial, but in the real world you’re going to do obituaries, and then maybe you’ll move on to sports or business or education, and then you’re going to get into like maybe a business beat or you’ll become a full, you know, sports journalist.

00:34:05:48 – 00:34:20:40
Agent Palmer
And then eventually we’ll let you write a column, your own editorial column. This is yours. I was always told that was like, so like it always seemed like, well, that’s the dream. I’ll get there in 20 years.

00:34:20:44 – 00:34:34:20
Skye Pillsbury
I do think, I mean, you know, that there is a difference between hard journalism and, you know, would people consider Oprah a journalist? Probably. Probably not.

00:34:34:22 – 00:34:37:00
Agent Palmer
That’s a good question. I mean, I guess the other thing.

00:34:37:02 – 00:34:39:21
Skye Pillsbury
She does the same thing.

00:34:39:26 – 00:35:05:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, I guess and maybe it’s maybe it’s because everything’s moved so fast and we are a product of when we grew up that I think back when I think of now. So when I think of editorials, it is you earn your time. And those editorials aren’t written by a new kid out of college. Those editorials are written by a 20 year veteran who’s done hard news, or the guy who’s writing.

00:35:05:57 – 00:35:29:54
Agent Palmer
The Mets column covered the Mets for 20 years. So his opinion is not just like sports, you know what I mean? Like, there’s more to it. And so I don’t know, like it’s where the lines of entertainment news blurred, which is a like that’s 17 other podcasts, right. Like they need clickbait because of how else are they going to get there.

00:35:30:01 – 00:36:07:58
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. I mean I think it’s fair to describe yourself then maybe as a writer and a podcaster, but I guess what I’m trying to to, to not minimize is the idea that you’re contributing to the worlds body of exploration and that that in, in a, in a both a writing and audio medium. And so I guess what I’m just trying to say is don’t discount the idea that you have those instincts as a journalist.

00:36:08:03 – 00:36:34:35
Skye Pillsbury
Maybe it is overstepping. Maybe it makes you uncomfortable to say, well, I’m a journalist. But, I don’t know. I think that the rules have changed a little bit with podcasting, and I, I think in some cases that’s good, because I do think that a lot of what comes out of podcasts is kind of fascinating discussions that I would happily read and vulture as part of a column show.

00:36:34:38 – 00:37:08:21
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. But I also think that I think your point is fair that still today, if you’re true journalists, you probably are subscribing to the main principle behind true journalism. It’s just that things have gotten a little bit blurry. And I think, you know, again, with podcasts, podcasts haven’t helped. Like on that front. Like it makes it even more blurry, like I did feel when I was hosting a podcast where I interviewed podcasters.

00:37:08:21 – 00:37:32:47
Skye Pillsbury
I mean, I felt like I was coming to them with the same kind of prep work and the same kind of deep, thoughtful, full, you know, specific questions that I would have asked them, even if that was for a print story for Hot Pod, which I feel like the work I did for. But, you know, people would consider journalism.

00:37:32:52 – 00:38:02:15
Skye Pillsbury
And so, you know, I fact check things. I called companies for comment, but I did feel like that same instinct to ask the deeper questions was there with me all along, you know, you know, when you have that instinct as a journalist and you really you want to get to those questions that open something up that’s deeper, then you know, that that that might be even a hard question.

00:38:02:20 – 00:38:27:48
Skye Pillsbury
And so I think these days, you know, so this is why so many successful bloggers and newsletter writers are getting picked up by some of the big publications, like I love. Well, some of them are leaving, some of them are going, wow, yeah, Hunter Harris came from. I forget which publication she has an incredible newsletter. Shout out to Hunter Harris.

00:38:27:52 – 00:38:59:36
Skye Pillsbury
She’s still doing the same kind of work. And then Dalia Kai, I think, just got hired by maybe Vanity Fair. She was a newsletter writer and came out of that to be it. So I guess I’m just saying I think there’s a lot of opportunities for cross-pollination, and hopefully what comes out of that is that the people who want to really have a journalistic ethic when they’re on a podcast, those people will well, you know, hopefully be noticed by the right audiences.

00:38:59:36 – 00:39:23:35
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. Because, like, you know, that’s what I love about listening to podcasts are people who’ve really done digging and really been thoughtful and, you know, either in an interview like this, you know, or in or in a print thing, it doesn’t like to me the distinctions are blurry. I think that can be a recipe for disaster or can be a recipe for enlightenment.

00:39:23:40 – 00:39:46:05
Agent Palmer
See, and I, I’ve gone back and forth. I’ve tried. I, I don’t know where I am with this particular show because there are times like, I know who you are. And that’s why I invited you on. And I’ll do a little bit of cursory research just to be like, well, what do I want to talk about? Like, what do we want?

00:39:46:05 – 00:40:12:58
Agent Palmer
You know, what do you want to talk like, you know, it’s it’s not completely like, oh, she’s coming on. And we’re going to talk about what podcasting means to a segment of the, you know, I mean, I want this to be a conversation, but because I want this to be a conversation, I don’t there are times when I’ve been super prepared and I’ve ruined a good episode because I need to be dumb, and I like and I mean that in the nicest sense of the word.

00:40:12:58 – 00:40:38:58
Agent Palmer
Like I need to be able to be like, what is that? Instead of being super prepared and just a suit, like, I need to be my audience, right? Versus being. But I also need to be prepared. And I’m 50 plus episodes in and I still haven’t found a good balance. Like, there are times when I’m like, you know, especially because, you know, I love editing this show because it gives me my Monday morning quarterback on myself.

00:40:39:03 – 00:40:50:20
Agent Palmer
And it’s like, well, you missed that. Or why do you keep going that way? Like, you know, but I haven’t found a balance for being prepared. And my audience at the same time.

00:40:50:28 – 00:41:12:53
Skye Pillsbury
You’re talking about a really complicated thing. I think for a lot of us who host or in my case, have hosted a podcast, which is you want there to be surprise. Yeah, that’s I think what you’re talking about, in a sense, is that you want to give your listener, you want to you want your surprise to be authentic.

00:41:12:53 – 00:41:16:30
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. And to feel like, oh, well, I already knew that.

00:41:16:36 – 00:41:20:29
Agent Palmer
Where’d you go to college? Oh, I know the answer. What’s your favorite color? Well, yeah. Like.

00:41:20:29 – 00:41:50:10
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah, right. I mean, one, you know, I mean, and I kind of feel like what you’ve been saying is like, this is kind of like an experimental thing for you right now. You’re sort of like testing. You’re, you know, you’re you’re figuring out what appeals to you. And I do think that if you want to get more granular and focused on what your podcast is going to be, that maybe at some point that will become clear, like I it will make it easier, probably.

00:41:50:15 – 00:42:09:39
Skye Pillsbury
But like right now I think we’re having a really interesting conversation. Maybe I don’t know what other people will think about it, but I’m interested in this conversation. I think the free flowing nature of it, I feel much more free. Like, I want to talk about your Star Wars t shirt that you’re wearing or, you know, the Wheaties box behind you, but then.

00:42:09:44 – 00:42:33:10
Skye Pillsbury
But, you know, and I feel like on this podcast, unlike a lot of other ones, I can do that. Yeah, I, I will say that, you know, my podcast was specific to talking about podcast creators, about a particular podcast and how it was made, and that just happened to be really clear to me that that’s what I wanted to talk about.

00:42:33:10 – 00:42:53:28
Skye Pillsbury
Like, I knew like even today, like because I finished this podcast I told you about earlier today, and if I was still running that podcast, like, I would really want to talk to Dan to pursue that, just how he did that, how he, you know, I would have so many questions for him about the writing, about this, about that.

00:42:53:33 – 00:43:17:37
Skye Pillsbury
And yet that was a very niche audience and that and yes, that’s great. And maybe if I continued, like, I would have amassed like a much bigger audience because my audience was decent. But like you know, my most popular episode was probably it was when I interviewed my boss, Jason Jason Calacanis. And I don’t know how many downloads it has now because I don’t own it anymore.

00:43:17:37 – 00:43:32:17
Skye Pillsbury
But, you know, it had over a thousand downloads, right? Like that felt really great for a new podcast, but I it wasn’t like I was just like killing the downloads on every show. I don’t look.

00:43:32:18 – 00:43:33:05
Agent Palmer
At any more.

00:43:33:10 – 00:43:58:33
Skye Pillsbury
Interviews I had personally that I think were my best, were not like, you know, huge hits, but like you’re saying, it really meant something to me. Yeah. And I wanted to dig in and I wanted and with the question thing, I would often sort of like listen to a lot of interviews they’ve done already and then try to avoid those specific questions, but like, say, well, I’ve heard you talk about this.

00:43:58:33 – 00:44:18:24
Skye Pillsbury
Here’s my follow up question to that, which I think for me at least made me feel like I’m getting to something new, which I think is a, you know, is a basic thing in journalism. Like you don’t want to repeat what’s already out there. You want to own original thing that opened some eyes is thought provoking.

00:44:18:24 – 00:44:40:00
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s why it’s why I love Marc Maron so much. Because we all know some of the guests on his show. We’re doing it for promo of something. Yeah, and then they get thrown a curveball because they start talking about something else. And in the last five minutes, Marc’s like, weren’t you here for a movie? Like, do you want to pitch that?

00:44:40:00 – 00:45:01:50
Agent Palmer
Like, and it’s been an hour. It’s been, you know, it’s long form conversation and they’ve had a good one about stuff they don’t normally talk about. And I enjoy that also. You know, I’m maybe it’s the northeaster in me right. Like I grew up in Pennsylvania. I went to College of Pennsylvania, I hung out in New York, new Jersey, like it’s diner life.

00:45:01:55 – 00:45:16:11
Agent Palmer
This is this is what we do. We go sit and we talk in the diner over some coffee. That’s it. And and and and these are always fun. Like, I’ve never had a bad time with a person in a diner.

00:45:16:16 – 00:45:17:03
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah.

00:45:17:08 – 00:45:38:09
Agent Palmer
Why can’t. Why can’t I move that over? Now, I do want to ask you, like, I want to put you on the spot because you have done a lot. You’ve written, you’ve done podcasts, you’ve done a lot. I’m going to give you $1 million in venture to start creating content. But you have to choose one platform. You can choose text, you can choose video, you can choose audio.

00:45:38:14 – 00:46:04:22
Skye Pillsbury
It’s not going to be video, okay. That just doesn’t like not that I’m averse to being on video, like we’re on video right now. And I think that that’s helpful, but it doesn’t. Video is not my passion. There’s something about the years that I mean, I feel like when I listen to a really great podcast, like, I feel like I am releasing oxytocin in my brain as I’m listening to it.

00:46:04:22 – 00:46:35:04
Skye Pillsbury
Like there is for me, like a real, I don’t know, like a physiological response. And I don’t know exactly what it is, but I don’t have the same response when I am watching a video of something. And I, I said this on my own podcast. I’m just going to say it here because I think it’s relevant. Like I was talking about, I interviewed the producers behind the 1619 podcast, and then I had an aftershow where I was sort of talking about that experience and we were talk.

00:46:35:07 – 00:47:20:58
Skye Pillsbury
I was saying that I have seen numerous documentaries about, you know, racism in this country and it and its roots and, and all of that. And it’s painful to watch. And we all have, I’m sure many of us have the images of brutal racism, like, emblazoned onto our brains, but nothing impacted me the way that listening to a podcast about systemic racism and the legacy of slavery, nothing impacted me the way 1619, which was only in my ears, nothing had the same impact.

00:47:20:58 – 00:47:48:44
Skye Pillsbury
So I would never like that really. Like, you know, I don’t want to be cheesy and say, now I’m woke. But like, if I am at all woke, it’s because of that. It’s not because of the documentaries I watched. Although of course, those documentaries, you know, of course I had the, you know, expected response to those, but somehow it really implanted itself in my brain so it wouldn’t be Video.

00:47:48:49 – 00:48:18:37
Skye Pillsbury
You know, I always growing up, I always opted for, like, when you could do the verbal report or the written report, I was always, I will do the oral report like I actually was really insecure about my writing ability during school. I was in honors English, but I was never in AP English. And then when I started in PR, I remember one of the first days that I was at my very first PR agency, you know, a technology agency.

00:48:18:42 – 00:48:40:22
Skye Pillsbury
And I remember writing a press release for the very first time and submitting it to the person who was my boss. And I remember it came back and it was like it was covered in red. It was like, this is fucked up, and so is this. And so was that. And it was that was a little that was like a little bit traumatic.

00:48:40:22 – 00:49:05:30
Skye Pillsbury
Having thought of myself as like a somewhat not amazing, I’m never going to write a novel, but like, somewhat decent at writing in the language of English and yet, you know, it made me just feel more like I wanted to conquer that. Not just the ability, but my fear of putting something out there that made me feel vulnerable.

00:49:05:30 – 00:49:42:44
Skye Pillsbury
And so, you know, I love writing. Like, I’m really proud of the writing that I did for Hot Pot and will hopefully continue to do for other publications specific to podcasting. I feel like I have a lot more in me that I want to cover. But you know what I used to say? One of the reasons why, frankly, I was happy to be done with my second season of the Inside Podcasting podcast, because when I left in SI.com for whom I’d also written the newsletter of the same name, you know, I didn’t own the podcast, I own the newsletter.

00:49:42:44 – 00:50:13:18
Skye Pillsbury
And so I left that behind. But it would that had been like so much work and just for me alone, like I did have producers, but I knew exactly what I wanted. Yeah. And, you know, I basically told them what to do in terms of the editing, in terms of all of that, and then they would implement it, and sometimes they would, you know, of course, come to me as I don’t I think you should change this to that or whatever.

00:50:13:18 – 00:50:36:12
Skye Pillsbury
They were very helpful not to minimize, you know, their huge contributions. But that was it. It was the two of us. And it was a lot of work, and it was too much like I couldn’t pay attention to my family. I barely slept. And so if I had a production team, like if I worked for a journalism organization.

00:50:36:19 – 00:50:59:42
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. And I was given the chance to just focused on podcasts and not write, at least right away. I would want to try that as long as I had support, because I needed more people on my team and I didn’t have them to just sort of like bat around ideas and think about what the best cut is and what to talk about and what’s the music.

00:50:59:42 – 00:51:15:17
Skye Pillsbury
And there’s so I mean, as you know, like editing is kind of I mean, it’s therapy, it’s not therapeutic. It’s it can be soothing if you really get into a zone. But it’s also painstaking. At least it was for me.

00:51:15:17 – 00:51:44:12
Agent Palmer
I, it I feel, on the fence about it and like, I understand the importance and I love the importance of it, but when it comes to audio, I’m editing for two reasons. I’m editing for story, I’m adding for time. And so that pause right there, that might be shorter than what I originally took, because I’ll make I’ll take the time to listen to it and cut it so it’s short enough, but not so short that it doesn’t sound rushed.

00:51:44:17 – 00:52:09:22
Agent Palmer
So it’s still a natural pause, and it’s still a natural pregnant pause. But it’s a lot. But it’s shorter because if I cut out ten of those, I save you ten seconds in the runtime. And for me, I value your time, and that’s important. And if I get to keep that in, then maybe, you know, whatever, whatever. So for me, like, it’s kind of like a labor of love, because I am cutting those things down and then I’m listening, and that doesn’t sound natural.

00:52:09:22 – 00:52:35:04
Agent Palmer
Okay. Well, I guess I’m leaving it in, you know? Like what you just that kind of back and forth in my own head. For me, the podcast is always kind of been a solo effort and I’ve never. Yeah, well, solo, except for the fact that, you know, you’re here, you know, like, and even the solo episodes I do, I run those scripts by someone else because I’m like, before I spend the time to read this to no one.

00:52:35:09 – 00:52:58:40
Agent Palmer
Let’s make sure it makes sense to someone. But for the blog, the blog has never been a solo effort. I have a group of people that get sent drafts because while I can edit myself, especially my number one editor who happened to be a newspaper editor along his illustrious career, I’ve never had a perfect post. Never.

00:52:58:49 – 00:53:29:58
Agent Palmer
Now, for clarification on a perfect post. I worked in tourism and you know, my editor is a longtime friend of mine, and he came down and I got him free tickets as long as he would write for our blog where I was working. And I got the draft and I sent it to my boss. Now, my boss, who loved me and I loved my boss, hated my writing because again, never written a perfect post in my life.

00:53:30:03 – 00:53:52:07
Agent Palmer
I handed her this thing or I sent it to her or whatever. I think I handed it to her because she was one of those like, I can edit it faster if I got the actual red pen out. And it was basically he had basically written the perfect post, like she didn’t touch a word of it and I was like, I don’t, I will never have that brain.

00:53:52:12 – 00:54:02:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but I am in awe of it. And I don’t like I guess the difference is right. Like, you got that first one. I wanted to prove better.

00:54:02:31 – 00:54:03:24
Skye Pillsbury
I.

00:54:03:29 – 00:54:22:50
Agent Palmer
I like, I care, but like, I just want to share, okay? I’m, I’m, I’m a very extroverted introvert. I want to share my story, but I don’t want to do it like I I’ll I’ll tell you and share that with the world. I’ll write it down and share that with one person, and then put it on the internet for the rest of the world to see.

00:54:22:55 – 00:54:33:14
Agent Palmer
But I don’t I don’t want to talk to a thousand people. Like a thousand people can listen to this. Five people can listen to this. I don’t want to talk to five people. Are you crazy?

00:54:33:19 – 00:54:34:21
Skye Pillsbury
No.

00:54:34:26 – 00:54:40:40
Agent Palmer
But I’m with you. Video is out. Like I don’t like I enjoy consuming it.

00:54:40:45 – 00:54:41:32
Skye Pillsbury

00:54:41:37 – 00:54:49:27
Agent Palmer
But the complexity and personal nature of audio is as far as I want to go, if I’m not going to be creating text.

00:54:49:27 – 00:55:20:03
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. You know, I don’t know if you know this about me, but typically when I was interviewing someone I didn’t actually want to be able to see them. So when I would do interviews, well, you know, I did a lot of the interviews and I had access to like, a beautiful, beautiful, recording studio because my boss, Jason Calacanis, has a bunch of podcasts, and he gave me, you know, I can watch like, I could use it.

00:55:20:08 – 00:55:41:36
Skye Pillsbury
I wanted. And in that scenario, there’s no one to look at, like, I’m in a studio, we’re being piped. And, you know, most of the people I was interviewing were on the East Coast, so I would just and at first I was really worried about that. Actually, the first person I ever interviewed was Madeline Barron, who is the creator of In the Dark.

00:55:41:41 – 00:55:53:17
Skye Pillsbury
And I was so fucking nervous beyond belief. I wish I had recorded the audio of me walking into the studio talking.

00:55:53:29 – 00:55:55:59
Agent Palmer
Like psyching yourself up or trying to calm yourself.

00:55:55:59 – 00:56:29:33
Skye Pillsbury
Now it’s more the heavy breathing, just like, I couldn’t talk myself up. I was so the first interview that I’ve ever done, it was with a woman who I really admire, and I was just so nervous. I’d never done it before, that kind of thing before. And she happened to be like, just by random chance, the first interview that I had scheduled and I think, you know, when you’re when you’re doing that for the first time, you know, you have you have such anxiety about like, whether you’re going to be able to pull it off.

00:56:29:33 – 00:56:51:18
Skye Pillsbury
Right. And in the first place. And when I go back and listen to that episode now, I can hear it in my voice. I think I was able to edit it in a way that it flows and sounds natural, but I had to edit the shit out of that episode because my questions were too long. I was I was just out of my head.

00:56:51:22 – 00:56:52:30
Skye Pillsbury
Sorry. You going ask, did.

00:56:52:30 – 00:57:04:15
Agent Palmer
You get did you get now? Did that go away like you did two seasons of that. Did it. Yeah it went away. It for me it doesn’t it doesn’t I still get nervous.

00:57:04:20 – 00:57:07:13
Skye Pillsbury
How nervous you get. Were you nervous before interviewing me?

00:57:07:13 – 00:57:31:47
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I was nervous. Look, I did, episodes 25, 26, 27 and 28. I think. I don’t know, somewhere in there, I did a four episode run on friendship, and it was, my best friend from high school, my best friend from college, a best friend I met after college, and the best friend I’ve never met. I was nervous talking to those guys.

00:57:32:00 – 00:57:33:57
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, best friend.

00:57:33:57 – 00:57:36:44
Skye Pillsbury
You never met. You just need to clarify that. Yeah.

00:57:36:44 – 00:57:41:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah, well, we met on the internet, okay. And then we started talking in person.

00:57:41:14 – 00:57:43:11
Skye Pillsbury
Got it.

00:57:43:16 – 00:58:03:23
Agent Palmer
And I’m nervous talking to them. I had, Andrew Belling who did the score for Ralph back. She’s wizards on. I was super nervous before. Of course, like I’ve watched his movie. I owned the soundtrack. Like, I have the CD, like, right over there. Yeah, of course you. Yeah, of course I’m nervous. The last five guest nerd always.

00:58:03:28 – 00:58:31:07
Agent Palmer
I’m a look. And I understand that there are people who will argue. Maybe you shouldn’t drink coffee every time you go potty. But but it’s a it’s a, it’s, you know, but that’s what I do like certain athletes always drink yellow Gatorade. That’s fine. Orange red whatever. Mind coffee. It’s. But I’m I will oh I think I think the day I’m not nervous is the day I hang it up.

00:58:31:11 – 00:58:39:32
Agent Palmer
Like I honestly feel that way because I, you know, I’m, I’m a very anxious person. I live with anxiety all the time.

00:58:39:37 – 00:58:41:28
Skye Pillsbury
But. Well, Jews do.

00:58:41:43 – 00:58:50:16
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah. I mean, it’s part of it. My mother would wish I lived with a little more guilt, but, hey.

00:58:50:20 – 00:58:50:35
Skye Pillsbury
But.

00:58:50:35 – 00:59:12:37
Agent Palmer
Like, I, you know, I, I’ve been watching, or just finished catching up on Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. They talk about the anxiety before going up on stage a lot, whether it’s he’s talking to an actor or comedian. And I didn’t equate it to that until I had watched that show. I just thought I was nervous because I only get one take it.

00:59:12:37 – 00:59:34:24
Agent Palmer
This like you and I’m not. I’m this guy. I respect your time. Thank you for being here. This is all I get. Like what I make of this episode in the editing suite is what I make of this. But like. And this is why I feel like editing is important, but it’s also you get one shot. This is it.

00:59:34:24 – 00:59:54:36
Agent Palmer
If I don’t ask you something, I don’t ask it. I can’t, I can’t manufacture that sky. By the way, I know we just had a wonderful, like, whatever minute conversation. Can you come back on? I realized I forgot to follow up on something in the 30 minute like, no, I’m not going to do that. So I maybe that’s part of it.

00:59:54:48 – 01:00:14:05
Skye Pillsbury
I did it with someone because she was wearing headphones and and the recording was all fucked up. She was wearing Bluetooth headphones and it just didn’t. They were all all the I mean, she was fine. I ended up just saying, let’s do it in six months. We’ll have more to talk about. And she was actually fine with it.

01:00:14:05 – 01:00:39:58
Skye Pillsbury
And if something turns out to be messed up with this, I would be willing to do it again. So not that you you’re talking about this conversation now, but I mean, I think you know, if you if whatever something happens, you will get the right one and not necessarily your chances ever. But your point is well taken. But like you want, especially if you’re interviewing someone like the the guy who made that movie or whatever that you mentioned earlier.

01:00:39:58 – 01:01:12:20
Skye Pillsbury
Like, you know, you don’t want to ask the person who I need to rerecord with, with someone I felt comfortable asking. I would have felt comfortable with that, certainly not with Madeleine Baron. And so I do fully understand what you are talking about. My question is, do you ever and maybe this would not be a solution for you, but what I was going towards earlier where we’re talking is that I prefer to not see people when I’m talking to them for a couple of reasons.

01:01:12:20 – 01:01:38:24
Skye Pillsbury
I think what I learned when I was interviewing in that studio was that I actually prefer to hear, or to only be focused on my ears and what my listeners were going to hear. But I think it also provided a little bit of a cushion so that I could ask questions. And if I was staring into someone’s eyes, I may be a little afraid of the questions I’m going to ask.

01:01:38:28 – 01:01:55:41
Skye Pillsbury
Like I’m afraid when I don’t see them. And I’m just curious if you think that. Not that you’d want to necessarily lose your nervousness, because I think some nervousness is is good. How healthy? Yeah. Yeah. So I’m not saying that that’s not important, but I just wonder, like have you ever tried so there’s.

01:01:55:41 – 01:02:17:00
Agent Palmer
Not there’s two there’s two answers. And they’re both negative. Right. Like the first is I like talking to you. And I feel like people are more because this is more of a conversation than an interview. I feel people are a little more relaxed talking to a person. That’s the first thing. The second thing is, if the connection gets bad, we can turn off video.

01:02:17:04 – 01:02:34:54
Agent Palmer
If there’s no video, which will usually lessen the bandwidth and make the audio better. If I don’t have that, like that’s a buffer, right? Like I have done half of the shows, we’re like, okay, hold on, your internet’s getting bad. Let’s just turn off video and keep going and see if it gets better. I don’t have that as a buffer.

01:02:34:54 – 01:02:43:06
Agent Palmer
And like I feel like maybe that’s a thing, but it’s more the first one but kind of a little bit. The second one.

01:02:43:11 – 01:03:11:32
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. Yeah, I understand that. I mean, I didn’t I thought I was going to want to see people in person. And then for a variety, I did interview a couple people in person, but that was rare. And for me, I ended up I mean, the other reason why I liked it, like, especially in the studio, it was kind of dimly lit, but yet, like, I could see my notes and if I needed to, like, look at my notes for whatever reason, which you kind of hope you don’t have to do that.

01:03:11:32 – 01:03:29:52
Skye Pillsbury
But if I had to look at my notes, I didn’t feel like, oh, my body language has to look like I, I have to be like, yeah, okay. Yeah, I’ve had a whole bunch of questions. I feel a little bit like, now you have to see me look in my notes for what I want to make. What was that question?

01:03:29:52 – 01:03:31:51
Skye Pillsbury
I wanted to make sure I asked.

01:03:31:56 – 01:03:52:16
Agent Palmer
Okay. I mean, that other thing. I mean, I’m in the command center, right? Like you’re on I’ve got three screens, right? You’re on the middle screen, the recordings on the right, and I full disclosure, I have your bio on the left, but that was just like just making sure I knew like the the boundaries. Right. I’m not going to ask you about Astrophys.

01:03:52:21 – 01:04:12:57
Agent Palmer
Right. But the other thing is this is this this is pen and paper. Like this is my baby. I don’t make note like I, you know, whatever. Like little notes like, oh, we, you know, we got on the call and we started at 12 minutes. Like that’s when the podcast started. Improper. Right. Like I or like, oh, I have a follow up.

01:04:13:02 – 01:04:21:10
Agent Palmer
Let’s write that down. It’s quieter than typing. Right. Like for me it’s the pen and paper and everything else can go away. As long as I know we’re recording.

01:04:21:14 – 01:04:21:32
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah.

01:04:21:34 – 01:04:37:08
Agent Palmer
I I don’t know. And you know what. Here’s the other thing. I don’t lean into the Jewish bit a lot. It doesn’t take a lot to guess. Especially if, if you know someone you know who is especially culturally Jewish.

01:04:37:13 – 01:04:37:55
Skye Pillsbury
Right.

01:04:38:00 – 01:04:45:59
Agent Palmer
But I, I feel like I’m living into a stereotype, like, I’m, I’m a cultural Jew with a beard in a podcast.

01:04:46:03 – 01:04:50:10
Skye Pillsbury
What are you. You’re not, are you, non-practicing?

01:04:50:15 – 01:05:17:40
Agent Palmer
I’m personal practicing like I, I went to, like. So I was a I was, I, we grew up conservative. Then we moved and it was reform. And I went away to camp. You know, I spent a semester abroad in Jerusalem. And so I have like the, the Reform Judaism called book for prayers so I can pick up my guitar and do myself like a little service on a Friday night if I want.

01:05:17:46 – 01:05:46:52
Agent Palmer
And I have from time to time. But I haven’t been a part of the community. Yeah, and I can’t tell you how long. So, like, I feel like I look at some point there’s a list of professions that I want to have on this show. And Rabbi is at the top of the list because when I was a, I don’t know what is, I was like 15, 16 when I was abroad, we would talk to rabbis and just argue with them.

01:05:46:57 – 01:05:48:39
Agent Palmer
The best.

01:05:48:43 – 01:05:49:51
Skye Pillsbury
The best.

01:05:49:55 – 01:06:14:44
Agent Palmer
I don’t care who you are. I’ve, I’ve heard that Jesuit, priests are on this level, but like, they will just argue with like, the I bring it like, ask the questions. Yeah. And maybe that’s why I’m living into the stereotype of the Jew. With the podcast, we are taught from a very young age, culturally and within the religion to ask questions.

01:06:14:55 – 01:06:35:45
Skye Pillsbury
Right. I know that my my daughter attends a Jewish school, which is why she’s home today for six hours. Yep. Which, by the way, there are way too many high holidays. Can I just say that out loud? That’s fine, that’s fine. Looking for a work life balance this September? Every week she has like two weeks. Two days off.

01:06:35:50 – 01:07:09:24
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah, but I actually think, like, on a podcast. I mean, at least for me. Like, I really liked that you said it because, you know, I, I so I’m half Jewish, but, you know, both of my grandparents were Jewish, were basically atheists. So I didn’t grow up with, like really any religion in the house, you know. But to your point, like, I feel very culturally Jewish just in the ways that I, that I’m constantly questioning and asking questions.

01:07:09:24 – 01:07:44:01
Skye Pillsbury
I think curiosity is like a super, like, underappreciated human trait. I like a good, gregarious sense of humor, like, I feel very connected culturally to one of my grandparents, particularly who who was all of those things. And I know it comes from like, I don’t know, his DNA, his upbringing, whatever comes through. He was, you know, I don’t know if he was born in Syria, but he was very young when he moved to this country.

01:07:44:01 – 01:08:08:22
Skye Pillsbury
And Arabic was his first language because he was in a Syrian Jew, and that’s what they were speaking. At least in his family. But I feel like he has all those qualities that I totally associate with that. And I think on a podcast, people knowing who you really are is important and lean into that part of your personality.

01:08:08:27 – 01:08:14:34
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, I mean it look, when I have a rabbi on, I won’t be able to hide it.

01:08:14:39 – 01:08:17:10
Skye Pillsbury
You have a rabbi in mind?

01:08:17:15 – 01:08:36:13
Agent Palmer
No, actually not really, because I don’t like the rabbi who I would have loved to have had on passed on. Right. Because he he was my bar mitzvah rabbi. And, you know, he I years ago. But we stayed in touch. He’s the reason I got to go overseas. But yeah, I I’m, I’m looking I’m, I’m keeping an eye out for.

01:08:36:14 – 01:08:53:05
Skye Pillsbury
Yes. I will say that. Is he an actual rabbi? I can’t guarantee that. I think he has. But, you know, he teaches Jewish studies at our school and he’s hilarious and super down to earth, you know.

01:08:53:10 – 01:08:55:21
Agent Palmer
And most of them are.

01:08:55:26 – 01:09:24:02
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah, that’s true. That is true. Like, I adore him. And when my daughter was doing zoom school, especially not knowing really that much about like all the history and the significance and stuff like that, he just, you know, he’s got that great attitude of like, Jewish Studies is just asking the big questions of life. And he’s like, I mean, it probably wouldn’t be appropriate, but I totally want to have beers with with him.

01:09:24:02 – 01:09:37:09
Skye Pillsbury
Like he is just like salt of the earth and in all the right ways. Yeah. Anyway, if you can’t find someone I know, someone who’s just great and steeped in Jewish.

01:09:37:09 – 01:10:00:16
Agent Palmer
I can only imagine I won’t have one on, you know, just because my faith, I mean, my favorite Jewish joke is that, you know, there’s an old Jew stranded on a desert island, and they come to, like, rescue him. The ship finally comes, the Coast Guard comes off, and they’re like, why are there why? Why are there two synagogues here?

01:10:00:21 – 01:10:10:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Oh, that’s the one I go to. And that’s the one I don’t like.

01:10:10:25 – 01:10:14:54
Agent Palmer
You.

01:10:14:59 – 01:10:37:26
Agent Palmer
Wasn’t that fun? Seriously, though, I do take to heart all of the conversation you’ve just heard because from a podcasting point of view, I have those discussions internally all the time about preparedness versus authentic surprise. But I want you to know that listening back, I noticed that we started a lot of little conversations in this episode, and we only finished a few.

01:10:37:31 – 01:10:57:27
Agent Palmer
This is actually not the first episode it happened in, but it’s the first time it happened enough that I want to tell you why I’m okay with this. I’m all right with it. It happens all the time in real life, conversations move, and if you’re willing to see where they go as a passenger with the other people, that can be beautiful.

01:10:57:37 – 01:11:18:40
Agent Palmer
Also, because this is my show, I’m comfortable enough to know that I can invite a guest like Sky back on to continue the conversation, or more likely to have a new one and see where that goes. All of this is to say that if anything felt unfinished, reach out to us as a listener of this show. That is your prerogative.

01:11:18:45 – 01:11:43:14
Agent Palmer
We can’t know that you want to know more. We can’t know that you want to follow up. We can’t know that you have a rebuttal, an example, or even a compliment. And if you’re not on Twitter, I give out my email every show and if applicable, I will share it with the guest. Use me as a conduit if you wish, but let me say this if you have reached out.

01:11:43:21 – 01:12:08:07
Agent Palmer
Thank you. I enjoy the interaction, but if you haven’t, would you reach out enough to tell me why you haven’t? Not every conversation needs to be left unfinished. Think about it. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 56. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.

01:12:08:09 – 01:12:31:17
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest Skye at Skye Pillsbury. That’s Skye Pillsbury and this show at the Palmer Files for all things Skye. Following her on Twitter is the most efficient way to keep up with the articles she’s writing for various publications, and it’s a good way to stay in the know on the audio industry.

01:12:31:22 – 01:12:44:18
Agent Palmer
Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, your home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.

01:12:44:23 – 01:13:05:17
Unknown
You.

01:13:05:21 – 01:13:15:46
Unknown
Need.

01:13:15:51 – 01:13:20:17
Unknown
Me.

01:13:20:22 – 01:13:25:02
Unknown
She.

01:13:25:06 – 01:13:27:47
Agent Palmer
Okay. Skye, do you have one final question for me?

01:13:27:52 – 01:13:39:26
Skye Pillsbury
Yes, I’m very curious. As I mentioned earlier, you are wearing a Star Wars T shirt. Yes it has. I believe that is Chinese writing.

01:13:39:26 – 01:13:40:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah.

01:13:40:31 – 01:14:08:54
Skye Pillsbury
And, having grown up obsessed, with the Star Wars franchise, I was Princess Leia for Halloween. Perhaps more than once. I had the Star Wars sheets. I was star the movie 11 times in the theater. I just want to know, like what? What does it mean to you? And why is there Chinese writing on it? And like anything you would like to share about it?

01:14:08:59 – 01:14:30:12
Agent Palmer
So the shirt in particular, I spent seven years in what I like to call retail hell, which was I got out of college and couldn’t find a real job, so I ended up in retail, not to say that that’s not, but but I, I went to college to get a white collar job with like, that’s why I went to college and learned to write and all those things.

01:14:30:12 – 01:14:54:54
Agent Palmer
And I ended up in retail for seven years. And, you know, that was literally 15 years ago. And what would happen is things would go on sale. And as a Star Wars fan or a marvel fan, when shirts like this became available for $2, I bought like four. I have three of these exact same shirt because it’s like, what would one go bad?

01:14:55:01 – 01:15:04:47
Agent Palmer
Throw it away. I think I still have two left. This is one of two left. So I just I have tons of these still. Okay. In fact.

01:15:04:47 – 01:15:08:25
Skye Pillsbury
Or I have to ask Kohl’s. Kohl’s. Okay.

01:15:08:30 – 01:15:19:52
Agent Palmer
But but being a fan was just it was my core group. We were we were Lord of the rings fans. We were Star Wars fans.

01:15:20:06 – 01:15:22:43
Skye Pillsbury
You know, I love the Lord trilogy.

01:15:22:43 – 01:15:44:44
Agent Palmer
And, you know, it’s one of those things where, like in sixth grade, we, you know, started reading and talking about, you know, we played D and D, I was a very, I don’t know what, the invisible, visible kid. Like, I ran cross-country, so I kind of got around with the jocks, but I was in band and I played with the geeks, obviously.

01:15:44:44 – 01:16:06:50
Agent Palmer
And I was in a cover band playing bass, like, I was everywhere. But, you know, Star Wars was just part of the lexicon of being a geek at that time, along with D&D and Lord of the rings. But but really, one of the cultural touchstones and argue about it if you want. And I still have to go back and rewatch it.

01:16:06:55 – 01:16:35:56
Agent Palmer
I remember the event of Phantom Menace, right? Like I was still in high school and we got out of school and we drove to the movie theater, and we got in line for the Thursday midnight showing, and we were there for eight hours, right? Like, you get out of school like what, 2:45, 3:00 at that point? Like, and we just we were there in line.

01:16:35:56 – 01:16:50:40
Agent Palmer
I was with a group of like ten kids from my high school. Some of us were friends, others weren’t. But we became friends, hanging out for eight hours outside of a movie theater. And it was just this event.

01:16:50:44 – 01:16:52:46
Skye Pillsbury
And yeah, it was surreal event.

01:16:52:50 – 01:17:21:00
Agent Palmer
And, and and it was I don’t know what it was before that. Right. Because before that it was just renting it because my generation didn’t have we had the rereleases, but we didn’t have a, a thing. Like we grew up knowing that it was important. Right. But, and I don’t know, you know, to me, kenobi’s my guy, like, that’s that’s my touchstone to the franchise.

01:17:21:00 – 01:17:43:20
Agent Palmer
It’s not Luke, it’s not Vader. It’s not a it will always and forever be Kenobi, but I don’t know, there’s just something about it and the grandiose ness of it. And I don’t know, you just fall in love with it. I feel like it’s one of those things. I feel like that’s when I talk to people who grew up a trek or who grew up with Twilight Zone.

01:17:43:20 – 01:18:20:49
Agent Palmer
It’s the same thing. They talk about it with reverence and love, but it just it just happened. You did. They didn’t have a choice. This is I’m a fan. I’m a fan. And then it kind of goes away, right? Like, you grow up, you get out of it. And then I don’t know, like probably around the same time I was in retail hell, like the the movies, the original trilogy started being like, put on heavy rotation in syndication and you’d see it on TNT or spike or whatever spikes called now writer USA like, you’d see it and now like and it’s just continued to this day, like, you can turn on the TV if you

01:18:20:49 – 01:18:41:43
Agent Palmer
have cable or of any kind, and you could find Star Wars and I, I think what happened was I was at a point in my life where things weren’t going very well, and I took comfort in the fact that at any time I could turn on these movies that comfort me. Yeah. And you fall back in love with it as a 20 something.

01:18:41:48 – 01:18:42:22
Skye Pillsbury
And you’re just.

01:18:42:22 – 01:18:49:56
Agent Palmer
Like, oh my God, why did I stop watching these? Like, what was I thinking?

01:18:50:01 – 01:18:50:37
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah.

01:18:50:42 – 01:19:14:45
Agent Palmer
Now it’s just like it’s just part of it. And and you know, hopefully this will make sense in the edit. But like the weeds boxes are other things right. Like so there’s three there’s three box, there’s three serials behind me. Two are Cal Ripken because from my father who grew up in Baltimore, even though I don’t live there, I became an Orioles fan, and that was it.

01:19:14:50 – 01:19:35:41
Agent Palmer
It was Cal Ripken. So it’s a Cal Ripken Wheaties. It’s a Cal Ripken. I have to turn around. It’s a Cal Ripken classic. Cal. It was one of those fake cereal like promo cereals. They did. And the other box is Flutie Flakes from Doug Flutie, who, you know, went to Boston College as a quarterback and shocked Miami and then did lots of other things in the NFL and Kffl.

01:19:35:41 – 01:19:41:49
Skye Pillsbury
But it’s a little nerdy, but you’re into sports, too, 100%.

01:19:41:53 – 01:20:00:50
Agent Palmer
And still still to this day, like Saturdays, college football, Sundays, NFL. And then, you know, I’ve been watching baseball all year, and now I’ll watch the NBA playoffs and I’ll watch a little NASCAR and Formula One, and then I’ll go read. You know, I, I got into Terry Brooks. Wait, what.

01:20:00:55 – 01:20:02:46
Skye Pillsbury
What books are you reading?

01:20:02:50 – 01:20:18:36
Agent Palmer
Anything? No. A lot actually. I’ve been reading through all Allen Dayton. I’ve been reading through a lot of Douglas Copeland, but I’m also reading, like, biographies and histories and you the. Yeah, I, I’m going to the thing right now.

01:20:18:42 – 01:20:19:51
Skye Pillsbury
It’s man.

01:20:19:55 – 01:20:40:40
Agent Palmer
Wow. Okay. So this this hurts and it helps right. So I’ve talked about this on the show before. I’ve been out of work for almost two years. By the time this comes out, it’ll be close to two years. And as I’ve been networking, I’ve been hearing two conflicting things. One, you can do a lot of things. You’re jack of all trades.

01:20:40:40 – 01:21:06:23
Agent Palmer
That’s really good. Thank you. Two you need to focus. You you have to be great at one thing. I can talk to ten people and get five people on either side. So I clearly I’m never going to be an expert in anything because the rest of my life is general ism. I enjoy all the sports, I enjoy all the.

01:21:06:25 – 01:21:16:55
Skye Pillsbury
I agree with you there. If you wanted to be an expert in something and become known for being an expert in something, you could do it. And just that may just not be what you want.

01:21:16:57 – 01:21:37:26
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. Okay, okay, I take it back. I, I enjoy all of the things and I don’t want to focus on one. So. Yeah, that’s that’s fine. Yeah, yeah. I’m, I’m, I may need you from personal publicist so I can get a job now.

01:21:37:31 – 01:22:08:33
Skye Pillsbury
Yeah. I mean, I do think that there’s ways to still be a generalist and and find ways to still hear the different stories, from your guests on this show, but maybe put it around a structure of, like, we’re going to talk about 3 or 5 specific questions that maybe have nothing to do with what you do, but I understand that then that would take away from this idea of you follow the conversation wherever it leads.

01:22:08:37 – 01:22:31:40
Agent Palmer
So this will be up there. This will be now. Example two of the most drastic left turns right. But the most drastic left turn still belongs to episode five, which I had her on to talk about wellness and fitness, and we took a left turn and just talked about like we both worked in fast food and like, we’d stay out all night into all this unhealthy stuff.

01:22:31:40 – 01:22:44:37
Agent Palmer
When we were that. I loved that. Like, that’s great. That makes for better podcasting. Just talking about wellness and fitness, which I mean was fun. But, you.

01:22:44:37 – 01:23:07:22
Skye Pillsbury
Know, it is really magical when that can happen in a good way. If you have a guest who can bring you something to act with, actually. Interesting. Yeah. I think my fear personally, if I was hosting your podcast, is telling the guests that we can go anywhere, and then having a guest who just totally sucks.

01:23:07:25 – 01:23:29:18
Agent Palmer
That’s on me, though. That’s when I have to be. That’s when I have to go into overdrive. In fact, I, I challenge anyone who’s listened to all of these episodes. You can find the ones where I had to pick up a little bit more, and it’s not. It’s not me being more talkative because some conversations I have stories to tell, right?

01:23:29:18 – 01:23:38:15
Agent Palmer
Like that’s just how it happens. But you can there are some episodes where it’s like, all right, well, I carried a lot more of that than I wanted to.

01:23:38:19 – 01:24:22:27
Skye Pillsbury
Write right now, you can definitely tell when it’s harder. And I mean, we’re all still perfecting the craft of being good interviewers. And that’s another thing, actually, I we’re wrapping up. I know, but that’s another thing that, quite frankly, I love about writing is that my interviews are usually I know exactly what I’m going for. And also the, content like, if, if they my interviews can be more, you know, directed like I’m talking to someone about a particular event that they experienced or something like that.

01:24:22:32 – 01:24:51:20
Skye Pillsbury
But also, I know that if they’re droning on and not giving me what I need, but like, if there’s some stuff in there that might be useful and like, okay, I can write one sentence in my story and summarize the last two minutes of what this person said, and then I can use the decent quote that they said after that, you know, I don’t have to, like, figure out a way to make the droning on sound great.

01:24:51:20 – 01:25:11:21
Skye Pillsbury
Yes, I just summarize it in my article. So, you know, I’m of two minds about if I had a production team who could do the editing and who like, we had a mind meld and they knew what I wanted, then I’d be totally open to that. But I do really love the freedom of writing as well. They’re both free in different ways.

–End Transcription–

This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).