Episode 12 of The Palmer Files features guest Sara of the many hats. She’s a Professor, Recapper, Author and genuinely fun person with at least two names; Netzley and Whitney. We discuss all of those things plus writing, reading, romance, and even sports.
Netzley to those of you who have learned from Dr. Sara, also Netzley to those of you who listen to her as co-host of the DC TV Report or read her recaps on EW.com, and Whitney to those of you who have read her novels of romance.
That’s why Sara is here. Her trichotomy of things. Her trilogy of aspects. Her three-headed giant of careers. And I mean careers. While she’s really making the bread on one, she’s talented enough to make her bread solely on anyone, but she still does all three. So what are you in for with this episode? A lot of different things.
- Romance
- Sports
- Communication Theory
- Journalism
- Personas and Personalities
- Passion Projects
- Reading
- Writing
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Agent Palmer’s Book Reviews and Recommendations
Clip of the Chicago Cubs Winning the 2016 World Series
You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Being Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:25:06
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com, the autobiography of NASA flight director Gene Krantz. The good, the bad and the ugly from two Lego Mandalorian sets. And Jordan and I are still looking for a location for a potential venture into an LGS. This is The Palmer Files episode 12 featuring Sara of the Many Hats. She’s a professor recap, or author, and genuinely fun person with at least two names Netzley and Whitney.
00:00:25:14 – 00:00:49:51
Agent Palmer
We discuss all of those things, plus writing, reading, romance, and even sports. Let’s do the show!
00:00:49:55 – 00:01:15:31
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 12th episode is Sara. Netzley, to those of you who have learned from Doctor Sara, and also naturally, for those of you who listen to her as co-host of the DC TV report or read her recaps on. Com and Whitney, to those of you who have read her novels of romance, this is precisely why I wanted to talk to Sara.
00:01:15:36 – 00:01:43:57
Agent Palmer
Her trick to me of things, her trilogy of aspects, her three headed giant of careers, and I mean careers. Well, she’s really making bread on one. She’s talented enough to make her bread solely on any one of those things, but she still does all three. I first met Sara through Bill Sweeney’s Wicked Theory podcast spin off, Preacher Versus Preacher, a comparison companion podcast of the comic to the AMC television series.
00:01:44:12 – 00:02:05:50
Agent Palmer
Sara was recapping preacher for you at the time of the first season, and through my connection to Bill and his shows and share his Twitter interactions with Bill, we became acquainted. Then she and I became more acquainted after a phone call that we discussed during the episode you’re about to listen to, and we’ve been friends since, so what are you in for with this episode?
00:02:05:59 – 00:02:36:15
Agent Palmer
A lot of different things romance, sports, communication, theory, journalism, personas and personalities, passion projects, writing, reading, romance, romance, calm theory, romance and enough interesting asides that if this were a classroom, even the most tired of you would be attentive at the twists and turns in the discussion. Either that, or I’m the guy in the classroom that keeps the professor talking.
00:02:36:15 – 00:03:01:44
Agent Palmer
While you were all hoping class would end early today. Sorry, but I’m not sorry. Sara is wonderful. So if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer. You can tweet the show at the Palmer Files, and you can tweet Sara at Sara Natalie or Sara Whitney underscore. Or you can also hear her on the DC TV report with her co-host, Little Edie O’Hare.
00:03:01:49 – 00:03:34:17
Agent Palmer
Wherever you are listening to this show and you can visit her website, Sara net, slate.com or Sara whitney.com, depending on which Sara you’re looking for. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And remember, all of these links and those mentioned in the show will be available in the show notes. So grab your notepads and pencils because class is in session and this time no one can be saved by the bell.
00:03:34:22 – 00:03:56:55
Agent Palmer
Sara, you are a teacher. A recap with both the written word and the audio stuff, and an author. So do you have an order by which you like to go by? Like, when you introduce yourself? Are you a professor first? Are you an author first? Does it depend on who you’re talking to?
00:03:57:00 – 00:04:19:56
Sara Netzley
Wow. That’s a that’s a great question to start because it, it brings in sort of the late stage capitalism of my brain and also the code switching that I do. But yeah, I when I introduce myself just to general public, I’m a professor first because it’s my day job and it’s, it’s my salary, right. Okay. So that’s that’s what occupies the bulk of my time, the bulk of my waking daylight hours.
00:04:20:01 – 00:04:44:45
Sara Netzley
But it kind of depends on who I’m talking to. If I’m talking to someone in a fandom, for example, I might talk up the the recap or first. Oh yeah, hey, I recap Supergirl for WWE.com or yeah, I do DC TV for a podcast. I do with a buddy. And then of course in the author circles, I that is all in part because authors and myself included, often use a pen name.
00:04:44:50 – 00:05:07:58
Sara Netzley
So I talk up that more than anything else, because my day job is not as important or not as important. It affects and informs everything I do. But because that’s not how I identify myself in my author voice and persona, you know, I’m an author first, and everything else is sort of shrouded in mystery, which is hilarious because I don’t make any secret about my pen name.
00:05:08:07 – 00:05:10:17
Sara Netzley
I just try to keep things separate for Google.
00:05:10:22 – 00:05:41:34
Agent Palmer
Well, that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, I when I launched the podcast was the first time I really listen. I didn’t hide that I’m Jason, I never did. It’s the first line in my about page on Agent palmer.com, but most people ignored it. So like when I come out in the intro here and say I’m Agent Palmer Jason Stershic, you know, it’s it’s kind of like I was that was my, my blurring of the lines because before then, while it existed.
00:05:41:39 – 00:05:43:10
Agent Palmer
No, I was Palmer like.
00:05:43:14 – 00:05:49:45
Sara Netzley
Was that hard for you the first time you introduced yourself with both names so publicly? No.
00:05:49:50 – 00:06:10:50
Agent Palmer
Yes and no. Because I did like having separate spaces, because the job I had when I launched Palmer, I was writing for them, too, so it was easier to be like, well, this is the shit I’ve written as Jason, and this is the stuff I’ve written as Palmer and keep those worlds separate. But you know, you can’t do it forever.
00:06:10:50 – 00:06:32:14
Agent Palmer
And when I started the the proxy cast, if you will. Right. And I was just guesting on all these shows, some of the early ones called me Jason anyway. Or if, you know, there were a couple instances where like one of the hosts knew me and one of them didn’t, so one of them was like, oh, and here’s our guest Jason.
00:06:32:14 – 00:06:34:37
Agent Palmer
And the other one would be like, That’s Palmer.
00:06:34:42 – 00:06:41:44
Sara Netzley
I was going to say, I know you’re Jason, but I 100% call you mentally and verbally, Palmer. And so, you know. Yeah.
00:06:41:46 – 00:06:56:12
Agent Palmer
No, I mean, there are there are plenty of people that have started to become like closer than just internet acquaintances. And you’re one of them that still just call me Palmer.
00:06:56:17 – 00:07:19:46
Sara Netzley
Well, and the funny thing is, in in the writer community and and specifically, I mean, I, I write romance, most of my writing circle writes romance. I have close friends. Friends I talk to every day, whether it’s, you know, messenger, email or anything like that. I don’t know their real names. I no idea. I know, I know their pen name and I respect their right to privacy.
00:07:19:46 – 00:07:40:04
Sara Netzley
And if they want to share it with me, great. But I’m not going to push it. There’s a lot of people who have jobs that frown on on outside work or that kind of outside work based on outdated perceptions and things like that. We can talk about that later. But yeah, it’s it’s so wild to me that there’s this whole close friendships that develop with somebody who maybe is on her third or fourth pen name.
00:07:40:04 – 00:07:48:16
Sara Netzley
And that’s how I know her really, really well. But I have no idea who she is. I could pick her out of a lineup, you know? I know what she looks like. I just don’t know her name.
00:07:48:24 – 00:08:13:04
Agent Palmer
Okay, so I skipped the second half of my junior year of high school to do a semester abroad in Israel. And when I came back, I skipped my senior year of high school as an early admit into college. And since I had just come back from Jerusalem with long hair and a beard on campus for the four years I was there, I was Jesus.
00:08:13:09 – 00:08:20:39
Agent Palmer
That was the nickname. Okay, that was the nickname. All right.
00:08:20:44 – 00:08:21:56
Sara Netzley
Is that irony?
00:08:22:07 – 00:08:41:38
Agent Palmer
I, I mean, we weren’t I to be fair, I don’t think that the friends I had were trying to be ironic. It was just it just. And I don’t know who started it either, by the way. Like, I’d have to talk to a lot of people to find out, but. But around campus, I was Jesus, right? And there’s two stories I can tell about that.
00:08:41:43 – 00:08:52:10
Agent Palmer
You know, one is my sophomore year, I was on the homecoming court, and I probably would have been homecoming king, but they put my real name on the ballot.
00:08:52:10 – 00:08:56:19
Sara Netzley
Oh, nobody. Nobody recognized. No. Absolutely not.
00:08:56:24 – 00:09:17:41
Agent Palmer
That’s one two. My parents were at a function with a professor from my school, and they were like, oh, you might know our son Jason, and they’re like, no, I don’t I don’t know that. And then my dad goes, you might know him by his nickname. They call him Jesus. And the professor’s like, oh yeah, I totally know him, right?
00:09:17:46 – 00:09:42:59
Agent Palmer
Then then I graduated and I ended up in retail working, unloading trucks. Right. And when you’re doing that, you can wear, you know, there’s not like a uniform. Right? So I used to wear baseball t shirts like the jerseys, but they’re t shirts because I had a bunch of them. Right. So there’s player names on the back. And one of the player names on the back was Gibbons.
00:09:43:04 – 00:10:12:03
Agent Palmer
And I had worn other shirts and other players shirts. It just so happened that at one point somebody called me Gibby and I was Gibby for the rest of my time at that store. Okay, so then I launch Agent palmer.com and I become well, at first through like seven Dagg, which was the first time it was ever said on a podcast.
00:10:12:08 – 00:10:33:33
Agent Palmer
It was Agent Palmer. And then it it was clear that that was too many syllables. That was going to get shortened. So it was just Palmer and now I’m coming back out. But I tell this long story, because what ends up happening is when I introduce Steph to my past, I have to let her know how they know me.
00:10:33:46 – 00:10:50:01
Agent Palmer
Like, oh, this person knows me. Is Jesus like that? Or this person knows me as Jason or like this. So I’m not unfamiliar with answering to a name that’s not Jason.
00:10:50:06 – 00:11:01:31
Sara Netzley
So let me ask you this is Jesus a different guy than Gibby, than Palmer, than Jason. Like, is one of those guys funnier? Is one more responsible? Does one have an interest like that? Another? You know?
00:11:01:46 – 00:11:28:22
Agent Palmer
No, it’s it’s funny. I may have responded to different. I’ve basically been the same. Like, I’ve the personal ality never changes based on the name, which was probably one of the easier reasons that, like, when I launch the podcast, I can be like, I’m Jason, also known as Agent Palmer, because I’m not all of a sudden a geek or, oh, no, I’ve never known anything about comics.
00:11:28:22 – 00:11:47:41
Agent Palmer
But now I do like, no, I mean, I’ve always been the same guy, but I’m a first. I’m a big believer in branding, and second, I’m horrible myself at names. So if a nickname helps you remember me, then by all means, I’m okay with it because I’m like, I will have to meet someone five times to get it.
00:11:47:46 – 00:11:49:54
Sara Netzley
Is this where you start calling me Susan? Is this where.
00:11:49:54 – 00:12:13:23
Agent Palmer
No, no, no, you’re Sara, you’re Sara. Because I’ve done well for you. It’s one of those like podcast cast friends that get, like, closer to the inner circle. Like, I’ve. I’ve heard you introduced, any hundred of number of times on your own show on other shows. So like, it’s then it just becomes like it’s the first couple conversations, right?
00:12:13:23 – 00:12:20:23
Agent Palmer
Like I think you and I are first conversation was when Gilmore Girls came out on Netflix.
00:12:20:23 – 00:12:26:11
Sara Netzley
That’s right. And you were like, yeah, when you get ten, you’re going to need to call me. Call me?
00:12:26:24 – 00:12:33:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Because because I do. Steph doesn’t watch it. So I needed somebody to talk to about this.
00:12:33:16 – 00:12:49:57
Sara Netzley
And I had this moment of having to explain to my husband, yeah, I need to go call this guy from the internet. It’s fine. It’s not weird. It’s fine. And he was like, okay, go call your guy from the internet. That seems perfectly normal and not a thing. I’m going to worry about. Well, it’s it’s funny.
00:12:49:57 – 00:13:14:46
Agent Palmer
Like, that’s kind of what we do now. And like, in our circle, like, I, I’ve, you know, episode ten, Paula and I met each other on the internet, and now she’s like my sister, like Grant, Bill and these guys are so close. But it’s like, I mean, I could end up in a ditch somewhere. I’m taking a leap of faith.
00:13:14:59 – 00:13:28:14
Agent Palmer
Like, kind of like you were saying, like, are all those people the same? You like? I mean, Bill could turn the mics off and be a serial killer. I don’t know.
00:13:28:19 – 00:13:46:52
Sara Netzley
Of everybody I’ve met through the podcasting world. Yeah. Bill’s Bill’s probably the the the one most likely. No, no. I’m kidding. He’s lovely. I and I got to meet Bill and Ed for the first time in person this summer when I was in New York, so that was exciting. To actually get to you know, and I’ve met Steph.
00:13:46:52 – 00:13:48:31
Sara Netzley
You’re the only one I’ve met in the circle.
00:13:48:31 – 00:13:59:51
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. I mean, it’s true, but, I will tell you, I have met hanno, and Steph has done a show with Hino for like, a billion years and still hasn’t met him.
00:14:00:03 – 00:14:26:30
Sara Netzley
So what? It’s living in 2020. Living in the future is so wild. The friends we’ve met, the friends we haven’t met who are still friends. Wild. Yeah. And when you talk about marketing and branding, that’s that’s interesting too. I find I now have double the social media accounts because I’ve got, you know, Sara, Natalie, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and then I’ve got Sara Whitney, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, author page, reader group.
00:14:26:35 – 00:14:44:59
Sara Netzley
And so I will have a thought or see something funny or have a picture and think, is this a Whitney or. Immensely, what is she Whitney, going to say about that? I kind of think of her as a she, which sounds dissociative. It’s not. It’s branding. You know, where does it belong? What do I say about it?
00:14:44:59 – 00:15:08:41
Sara Netzley
So it’s it has been interesting to to kind of watch myself fine tune the persona and the communication styles, because I have really stepped up my Whitney presence in the past six months. So I’ve seen this happen and I’ve seen how I interact and who says what, where and what gets shared and what doesn’t. It’s just it is wild to me watching this all go down.
00:15:08:41 – 00:15:33:39
Agent Palmer
Are you I mean, are you the same like you are the two? I mean, because listen. And and I know this from Palmer. Like, you kind of get to recreate yourself if you want. And and it’s, I mean, I guess, to be fair, I took the coward’s way out. I was myself because recreating a new personality or profile would take way too much energy.
00:15:33:39 – 00:15:40:13
Agent Palmer
Like, oh, you can’t. Palmer can’t say that. Only Jason could. Like, that’s no no no no no, that’s.
00:15:40:18 – 00:16:01:24
Sara Netzley
That’s a lot I myself. But I’m different aspects of myself turned up or turned down I would say. Okay so Whitney’s a little here by Sara Natalie. Twitter is a lot more political and honest. They’re my my Sara Natalie Facebook is a little more upbeat. Pollyanna. It’s it’s just, you know, it’s it’s it’s what are your audiences who’s who’s reading?
00:16:01:24 – 00:16:20:52
Sara Netzley
My mom is reading my Facebook. People I know on Twitter are who are seeing me over there. My author persona. It’s people I don’t know who don’t know me. So I try to be, you know, the best, shiniest, most interesting. But, you know, I write romance, so you have a little element of wink wink, nudge nudge, look at them abs.
00:16:20:56 – 00:16:30:21
Sara Netzley
Which I guess actually is my Natalie persona. You know what? Just abs. Bill Sweeney once called me a legendary man ogre. And that I wear that with pride. That’s in my Twitter.
00:16:30:21 – 00:16:35:48
Agent Palmer
It’s funny because Bill’s the one who called me a proxy caster, and I still won’t get rid of that.
00:16:35:57 – 00:16:39:30
Sara Netzley
Bill’s the giver of nicknames. There’s his nickname.
00:16:39:35 – 00:16:42:37
Agent Palmer
He’s going to. He’s going to want that shortened. I’m telling you right now.
00:16:42:37 – 00:16:43:38
Sara Netzley
He’s the nickname for.
00:16:43:43 – 00:16:46:49
Agent Palmer
The nickname. That’s that’s his Batman villain.
00:16:46:54 – 00:16:48:40
Sara Netzley
It is? Yeah.
00:16:48:45 – 00:17:13:41
Agent Palmer
Listen, we’ve talked about different jobs, different personas. So I want to go backwards. What did you want to be when you grew up? Because, I mean, if I were to say, like, you’re a recap or you’re an author or you’re a professor, either one of those three things is like, well, you you’re doing it. But like, what did you like, go back?
00:17:13:41 – 00:17:15:11
Agent Palmer
Like, what did you want to.
00:17:15:15 – 00:17:31:38
Sara Netzley
I was, oh, this is going to set. This is the least humble thing I’ve ever said. I was one of those kids where, you know, your mom goes for parent teacher conferences and every every teacher says she should study this in college. Oh, biology. She should definitely suck. She should be pre-med. She should be studying Spanish. She should be.
00:17:31:49 – 00:17:53:51
Sara Netzley
So I, I was one who was good at everything. I was I was, you know, straight A’s kid, highly motivated, highly driven. I in high school kind of shifted to news and journalism, and I thought I was going to be a TV reporter. And then when I got to college, I realized that writing. And all along my whole life, I’ve had teachers say, you have a way with words.
00:17:53:51 – 00:18:17:39
Sara Netzley
You, you know, this is this is a gift. And I just the emphasis on the written word in print journalism spoke to me so much. So I think something with words and then telling news stories with words has always been my, my direct shot there. And so, yeah, I’m, I’m a, I’m a teacher, I’m a professor, I teach journalism, I teach mass comm so that is still what I do.
00:18:17:44 – 00:18:51:56
Sara Netzley
When I was thinking about because you were told me we were going to talk, you kind of thought the trifecta. Yeah. Personalities would be kind of interesting. I was thinking how how do I bridge those beyond the writing aspect, the words aspect. And I have in a lecture that I do in my senior level journalism class every year, a quote from scholar Thomas Cahill that talks about how you can see the world view of a people, their invisible fears and desires in a culture, stories and I really think that my my three hats that I wear.
00:18:51:56 – 00:19:13:04
Sara Netzley
God, I hate that phrase. But the three things that I do, I think often it’s about teasing out society’s invisible fears and desires. But in these really different arenas of journalism, what are the stories we focus on, whether it’s news or features or what have you? So many of those are foregrounding and highlighting the stuff we’re scared of, the stuff we desire.
00:19:13:09 – 00:19:31:46
Sara Netzley
That’s what we focus on. Recapping a little harder to to make that distinction there. But I do think, like we just finished Watchmen and Watchmen was a marvelous show for al Gore, rising and bringing to the forefront a lot of cultural things that we need to address and talk about. You’ll see. You’re going to watch it soon.
00:19:31:51 – 00:19:32:18
Sara Netzley
And but.
00:19:32:18 – 00:19:58:18
Agent Palmer
That’s but I mean it all of those things are I mean, it doesn’t have to be ripped from the headlines to include current events, and I like that it doesn’t, whether it’s Star Wars or Marvel or it doesn’t matter, like what platform or franchise or even indie, like they’re all you can’t watch anything now and like, truly escape.
00:19:58:22 – 00:20:16:50
Sara Netzley
Well, and that’s one of the things that one of my favorite things that I teach every semester is I teach a media race and gender class, and I have included a unit on horror, which some of my students are just like yours. Horror. And other students say I don’t, I don’t watch horror, I don’t like horror, I don’t please don’t make me do this, but I do.
00:20:16:50 – 00:20:44:23
Sara Netzley
I do make them do this because I’m the professor. And it’s because I think more than any other genre that I look at, certainly in beauty, race and gender. Oh my God, horror rises and and and can find such fun, gross, amazing, scary ways to talk about fill in the blank consumerism, HIV Aids, terrorism. Social communism, like the invasion of the body Snatchers stuff.
00:20:44:23 – 00:21:06:28
Sara Netzley
I mean, there’s so much stuff there. Let’s talk about what zombies mean in the late 90s early aughts. We can, it’s so, so good, so interesting. So that’s the kind of stuff I love. And romance does it, too. If you look at the way romance has evolved from the, the early incarnations and some of the ways that, you know, they of course, they could always have been better.
00:21:06:33 – 00:21:32:22
Sara Netzley
Everything can always be better. News can be better. All kinds of fiction can be better. But, early romance was reacting to a lot of times, women’s liberation and the ability of women to express all kinds of different desires, whether it’s sexual, autonomy. Whatever the case may be. And we’ve seen that evolve and grow. So this idea about giving voice to invisible fears and desires, I think, is that’s, you know, you ask what I wanted to be when I grew up.
00:21:32:22 – 00:21:52:56
Sara Netzley
I wanted you to use words, basically. But what did I end up doing when I grew up? I think it’s looking at how people weave those invisible fears and desires into fiction, into news, into pop culture, into high culture, into low culture, into all of it. That’s what I’ve ended up doing. And it’s it’s so damn fun.
00:21:53:01 – 00:22:05:34
Agent Palmer
I feel a first of all, you and I have talked at length about some of your lesson plans. I’ll ask you a question about current events, and then you’ll turn on the professor hat, because we’ll.
00:22:05:34 – 00:22:08:05
Sara Netzley
Just. I’m sorry. I’m insufferable. I’m so sorry.
00:22:08:05 – 00:22:15:36
Agent Palmer
It’s fine. No, it’s fine because I. I enjoy that to a point. Because, you’re not quizzing me. And you don’t have.
00:22:15:36 – 00:22:17:15
Sara Netzley
To listen or. No, no.
00:22:17:19 – 00:22:34:24
Agent Palmer
I, I, I get to listen, but I don’t have to, like, I can, I can miss a detail and not feel like you’re going to be the person in every educational setting I’ve ever been in who’s just going to read, look at my parents and go, you know, he’s like, wasted potential.
00:22:34:29 – 00:22:36:10
Sara Netzley
He could apply himself more.
00:22:36:10 – 00:22:51:24
Agent Palmer
He could do so much more. And that’s literally my that’s my educational background is, you know, he could he’s not living up to his potential.
00:22:51:29 – 00:22:53:11
Sara Netzley
Oh yeah. It’s a.
00:22:53:11 – 00:23:09:01
Agent Palmer
Common theme. I feel like, when I got to set my own potential, like, now I’m exceeding it. But, everybody else saw that. Like, I could do so much more. And I always wonder, like, I wonder what they would have had me do.
00:23:09:06 – 00:23:11:59
Sara Netzley
And just because you could, it doesn’t mean you should.
00:23:12:13 – 00:23:40:02
Agent Palmer
Honestly thank you. Because, you know, Malcolm is a personal hero of mine. But aside from that, I, like I had a journalism teacher who ran the paper because it was a small school, and I would write for her a lot because I was not afraid to take on a news story. Right? Like, I remember 911, and I was the first person to be like, I mean, I’ll write about it.
00:23:40:07 – 00:23:59:51
Agent Palmer
And I did because I wasn’t afraid to like and and I knew that if she stood up in front of the class or even when I wasn’t in her class, if there was a, like, a speaker coming to campus, like we had one of the Tuskegee Airmen come to campus and nobody wanted to interview him. So I was like, yeah, I’ll do it.
00:23:59:51 – 00:24:32:38
Agent Palmer
Like I. But what ended up happening was when she found out I didn’t want to pursue a career in journalism, I got in trouble because you’re wasting your talents. It’s like, well, I mean, I really enjoy being a big fish in this tiny little college community and being a writer for this tiny little college newspaper. But I don’t I don’t want to do it out there, because I think for what I and I give myself way more credit in hindsight than I probably should.
00:24:32:38 – 00:24:46:00
Agent Palmer
But like, I think I realized because I had a friend who did journalism after we got out of college and it’s just like, wow, was I right that that was not going to work for me in the real world, quote unquote.
00:24:46:05 – 00:25:04:27
Sara Netzley
Well, and I’ve certainly experienced that where student I thought had such amazing sorry to use the word potential, but potential as a journalist, as, as an educator, as a whatever the case may be, went into something totally different. Oh, you’re going to law school. Great. But you know what? You think they have to love it. They have to feel it.
00:25:04:27 – 00:25:23:58
Sara Netzley
And just because you’re good at something doesn’t mean you owe that to the discipline. You owe it to yourself to say, I don’t like this. This is not where my calling is. Could I do more? Sure. Could I could I be a doctor? Could I be an attorney? Could I have been a a physicist? No, I seriously could not have been a physicist.
00:25:24:09 – 00:25:37:01
Sara Netzley
But, you know, if that’s not where my colleagues don’t force it. Don’t. It’s not all about money. It’s not all about prestige. It’s about doing the thing that lights you on fire.
00:25:37:06 – 00:26:01:29
Agent Palmer
I mean, you have three things that light you on fire. And I’m kind of jealous a little bit, because at the moment, I’m still looking for whatever that next job is going to be. And, I mean, I’ve talked about careers on this show before, and would I like to make this a full time gig? Maybe. But I really like that.
00:26:01:39 – 00:26:05:08
Agent Palmer
I’m not beholden to anybody here.
00:26:05:12 – 00:26:10:37
Sara Netzley
Are you somebody where the instant you have to do it, it becomes less joyful.
00:26:10:41 – 00:26:46:02
Agent Palmer
Okay, so I don’t know the answer to that question. And because I don’t know the answer to that question, I’m really scared of the answer. So I like the way it works. Is this because, I think it was maybe the first episode of the ID ten podcast, or maybe one of the last Nerdist. When Hardwick was discussing, like some, some big old stuff about like, why he’s not Nerdist anymore, and he sold the brand to a bigger company and he’s talking about it was his, but it wasn’t his anymore.
00:26:46:03 – 00:27:09:28
Agent Palmer
They were now corporate overlords. And like, I’m, you know, a little me. Like I don’t have nearly the traffic or the follower that he does. But like as he’s describing what happened to Nerdist, which was his baby, I’m like, oh, I’m never going to sell like that just because, like, even though, like, good stuff came out of it for him and like, good for him.
00:27:09:33 – 00:27:43:19
Agent Palmer
I know that even though it worked out for him, he was still really, like, not sold on selling and like letting go of it. And because of the way I just viscerally felt listening to him tell his story, I was just like, maybe this is just something that is a side gig for me for the rest of my life, because while I could probably do it well, I think the only way I could do that is if I was making money without giving someone else ownership.
00:27:43:23 – 00:28:07:17
Agent Palmer
And I think that that’s hard. I think what’s more likely to happen for any of us independent podcasters is like, maybe Spotify is like, will buy you out and give you money to keep doing it, but then you’re not in charge. And like, that’s where it becomes like, oh, no. Like, so like that’s where I don’t know, like, maybe it would be cool, but maybe it wouldn’t.
00:28:07:22 – 00:28:10:58
Agent Palmer
Right now I’m on an every other week release schedule.
00:28:11:03 – 00:28:12:21
Sara Netzley
00:28:12:26 – 00:28:35:06
Agent Palmer
If I didn’t have a real job or at the moment wasn’t looking for one. Absolutely. I could do it weekly. But would it be the same. You know, now I, you know, because I have a little bit of time in between episodes, I, I can bank some and like buy my, I can bank two and by myself an entire month to figure out what to do next.
00:28:35:11 – 00:28:52:52
Agent Palmer
So I feel like in a way maybe is the only answer, but I’m still kind of scared to like what might be. So I sure it might be a scenario where I just play it safer just because I want to maintain control.
00:28:52:57 – 00:28:53:39
Sara Netzley
00:28:53:44 – 00:29:16:18
Agent Palmer
I mean, for my blog, I could tell I could probably come in and tell your students how to make money by writing X, Y and Z and getting ahead of the game. Right. Because that’s kind of part of the game, whether it’s current news or just, you know, licking your fingers, sticking it in the air and trying to figure out which way the wind blows and just getting there first.
00:29:16:23 – 00:29:41:07
Agent Palmer
But I’m not chasing that stuff, and I don’t feel a pressure on myself to chase that stuff. So it’s still fun. It’s like, oh no, I’m going to write about this. That’s great. You know? So it’s it’s it’s hard because this is my, I mean, I, I lump all of the Palmer stuff into one brand. So that becomes my one creative outlet.
00:29:41:12 – 00:29:53:50
Agent Palmer
And if I lost control of my one creative outlet, I’d either have to find another one or be I just wouldn’t have one and I would go insane.
00:29:53:54 – 00:30:15:41
Sara Netzley
Sure, yeah. So that manifests for me in, of all places, book club, wherein maybe I was going to read that book, but the instant you tell me I have to read that book by this date to discuss it with three women, I really admire it. Enjoy. I’m like, fuck you, I’m not reading that book. I’m not doing it.
00:30:15:45 – 00:30:31:28
Sara Netzley
I am so behind on book club this month. I have got to and I do do I want to read The Handmaid’s Tale sequel? No, actually, I don’t that that sounds I mean, it’s going to be good and it’s going to destroy me, but I don’t want to do it on a schedule. That’s I notice that’s where my worst tendency comes out.
00:30:31:28 – 00:30:55:05
Sara Netzley
I will happily do what I have to do for the professor job. I am happy to do the recaps every week. I’m happy to talk to AD once a week about all the DC TV stuff. I’m on my own schedule for the the author things. You know, I’m I’m setting my schedule. I’m setting my own deadlines. That’s all very self-driven, but the instant somebody comes along and says, hey, read for pleasure and then let’s talk about it, I’m just like that, all right?
00:30:55:05 – 00:30:59:15
Sara Netzley
But I’m like, I’m like a cat making strong eye contact. Just not can shut off the counter. No, I’m not doing that.
00:30:59:18 – 00:31:07:48
Agent Palmer
But but ignoring that though, do you read but you just read socially too. Like just or recreationally?
00:31:07:52 – 00:31:24:27
Sara Netzley
I used to be a huge reader. Yes, I read so much, but the instant I started actually writing fiction for more than just I think I can do this. I’m going to try. And once I realized I can do this, I am doing this and I’m going to make some money doing this. It really change. I don’t have time.
00:31:24:27 – 00:31:41:59
Sara Netzley
I don’t have time to read. I read very little, in the past, gosh, a year. I mean, it’s been almost a full year and I think I’ve maybe managed a dozen books, which is so low for me, insanely low. But my free time is because I have the day job and then the recap job and then the podcast job.
00:31:42:04 – 00:31:57:27
Sara Netzley
The podcast is not a job. It’s it’s for fun. But I mean, it takes up all my time. So any free time I have that used to be for reading is now for writing. And that’s fine. That’s great. It’s a choice I’m making. It’s fun. It’s it’s challenging. I’m growing as a person and as a wordsmith and all these things.
00:31:57:32 – 00:31:59:31
Sara Netzley
But I don’t get to read as much.
00:31:59:34 – 00:31:59:55
Agent Palmer
What?
00:32:00:08 – 00:32:00:31
Sara Netzley
Sad.
00:32:00:37 – 00:32:04:41
Agent Palmer
When when you were reading, what were you reading?
00:32:04:45 – 00:32:25:53
Sara Netzley
Tons of romance. Obviously. It’s what I write, and I think that’s the best way to to learn and to accumulate. And then, you know, the big fiction that everybody’s reading, the big summertime beach type reads that everybody’s talking about, and sci fi fantasy, urban fantasy. I was not reading as much of it in the past couple years, but I have been a big consumer of that genre as well.
00:32:25:55 – 00:32:46:32
Agent Palmer
Have you seen your reading change? Like so? I can go back to like my high school days. I used to read a ton of sci fi, like like Clarke and Asimov were my boys, and I haven’t read any sci fi, like, like I, I’ve picked up maybe 1 or 2 of late, but no, like, it’s just not something I’m reading anymore.
00:32:46:39 – 00:32:58:26
Sara Netzley
I actually can, in the geekiest way possible, be very specific with that answer, because I have been tracking everything I read in an Excel spreadsheet since 2008, so I.
00:32:58:26 – 00:33:05:11
Agent Palmer
Don’t wonder you and Ed are so simpatico on that show.
00:33:05:16 – 00:33:22:30
Sara Netzley
And yet we’re hugely different too. Anyway, but yeah, so I actually went through this was maybe six years ago and charted like, looked at all the different genres that I read and watched the increase in decrease. And I can see the years I was super into zombie fiction, super into ask me for recommendations. I can give you romance.
00:33:22:30 – 00:33:44:12
Sara Netzley
I can give you horror, I can give you literary. I got you zombie Wrecks. I, you know, and so I can see the spike there and I can see as my urban fantasy or as my sci fi stuff sort of, rise and fall. And then, I mean, just the last couple of years, I’ve really increased my, my romance reading and across a variety of genres, whether it’s, you know, historical, contemporary, paranormal, dystopian, all those kinds of things.
00:33:44:17 – 00:33:57:36
Sara Netzley
And that’s really what led me to to write because I had one of those there’s such beautiful stuff in the genre, and there’s some stuff that is maybe not as good as it could be, and I would like to see where I fit in there. I would like to see what I could do with that. So that’s kind of how that started.
00:33:57:36 – 00:34:05:53
Sara Netzley
But, yeah, it’s I love me an Excel spreadsheet and, that’s how I.
00:34:05:57 – 00:34:29:18
Agent Palmer
Look at it. It’s, it’s come up on this show like I have a detailed blog schedule in Google Sheets, detailed, it’s color coded, it’s dated, it’s organized. I can look at it in a in, like, I can just glance at it and go like, okay, so three of the next four posts are drafted, one is started and one is outlined.
00:34:29:20 – 00:34:55:12
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. Solid. Good to go. But so I’m with you like I think people use tools that are not necessary. Like it gets over complicated. And I’m sure there are people out there that really enjoy it. But like Trello too much I didn’t need it. Slack. I mean, I can follow along, but just give me like one thing, I one thing is fine.
00:34:55:12 – 00:35:17:12
Agent Palmer
It’s good. Next year, new tab done, and everything’s historically saved. I’m all right. It’s solid. I mean, the only way I’ve been tracking the books I read is because I write about them all now, so I can go back and see where I kind of started. And I started reading or making an effort to read after I started the blog.
00:35:17:21 – 00:35:23:51
Agent Palmer
So you can see with the frequency that I put book reviews out, how much more I’m reading now.
00:35:23:51 – 00:35:34:03
Sara Netzley
And from what I’ve observed, and this is just me, sort of as they float across my my Twitter timeline, are you doing a lot more nonfiction now? I feel like I see more nonfiction from you.
00:35:34:08 – 00:36:08:00
Agent Palmer
What happened was I made a conscious effort about a year ago to I was always mixing things up, like, I’m still reading through all of Dayton’s books and I still have like 25 more to go. But, I, I was going like Dayton than non, Dayton than Dayton than non Dayton. Like I was trying to mix it up and now I’m mixing it up a little bit further because I’m reading more of Terry Brooks’s stuff, and I’m throwing in at least one piece and nonfiction in the rotation.
00:36:08:05 – 00:36:29:58
Agent Palmer
Right. Because I felt like I’m not one of those people that thinks like, reading fiction is a waste. Like, I feel like there’s you can learn just as much from a good piece of fiction as you can from a good piece of nonfiction. But I wanted to kind of be more of a balanced reader and so the nonfiction stuff is kind of crept in.
00:36:30:03 – 00:36:49:07
Agent Palmer
I mean, I’m really on this NASA kick, and it’s kind of not gone away. But that’s like the little kid in me coming back and choosing books like, no, I want to, I want to read about the rocket. All right. Okay. All right, I’ll read another astronaut book. All right. Does that make you feel better? Yes. Yes it does.
00:36:49:07 – 00:37:11:08
Agent Palmer
All right. Okay. We’re done. You know, so, like, that kind of stuff. And the technology books are always interesting to me because I still feel like you and I are talking on Skype, and we’ve got, you know, these USB microphones and we’re on, you know, probably laptop devices and multiple screens with phones and all of that has a foundation somewhere.
00:37:11:08 – 00:37:19:58
Agent Palmer
And I feel like because I’ve either made my hobby and my passion projects or my living off of these devices, I need to know more.
00:37:20:02 – 00:37:20:41
Sara Netzley
00:37:20:46 – 00:37:36:25
Agent Palmer
I need to know where it comes from, because to me it’s still a mystery. Like I can code, but I still do not understand how a chip works. I’ve read books still like that’s just, it’s like it’s, it’s never going to go in or it goes in and out. I just, I don’t know, it’s.
00:37:36:30 – 00:38:00:08
Sara Netzley
I’ve accepted that I’m going to be ignorant in some areas. And that is one where I am okay for this computer to just work, and I’ll just trust that it’s going to be okay. But that’s because I’m, you know, I’m trying to level up and master other things. I think I just feel like at this point, I have only so much time and elastic brain capacity left for me to acquire new ninja level skills.
00:38:00:08 – 00:38:26:08
Agent Palmer
I mean, listen, if you want to talk about that, I can tell you, I still know probably every magic card up through like 2000. And that’s not information that’s even relevant anymore, even if you’re playing magic. So like, to me, it’s like, I really wish there was like a select all and delete for that folder because I do not need that information anymore.
00:38:26:13 – 00:38:45:24
Sara Netzley
Do I have the lyrics, to every song from every like popular Broadway musical? In the 90s in my head, yeah. Could I sing the entirety of Phantom of the opera start to finish? Sure. Not. Well, but I could do it. Do I need those words in my head? No. Could I use that brainpower for something else?
00:38:45:29 – 00:38:46:09
Sara Netzley
Undoubtedly.
00:38:46:18 – 00:38:46:34
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:38:46:34 – 00:38:52:43
Sara Netzley
We also, if you ever want to devastate my husband, just whisper to him. Black Lotus.
00:38:52:48 – 00:38:55:48
Agent Palmer
Well, I didn’t admit to. Did he almost get one?
00:38:55:53 – 00:39:16:36
Sara Netzley
Oh, no. He had so many and he sold them for so cheap before they exploded. So he just he’ll be like I had, I had 20 and then he starts thinking about what kind of retirement we could have. But that’s I don’t do that. I only do it if I’m really like losing the fight and I’m just like oh yeah what black Lotus.
00:39:16:36 – 00:39:20:48
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No I’m not I’m never going to do that. That’s not. No.
00:39:20:53 – 00:39:22:59
Sara Netzley
You know, like making a grown man cry. That’s fair.
00:39:23:04 – 00:39:25:54
Agent Palmer
No it’s it’s mean like I mean.
00:39:25:59 – 00:39:28:01
Sara Netzley
It is I would actually never die.
00:39:28:06 – 00:39:44:53
Agent Palmer
Because. Because it’s, it’s one of those funny things where, like, the rules of magic have changed, and that makes me cry. Mana burn. Come on. It should still exist. All right. I’m going to hold it like anti. Why not, why not, why not, why not? Come on, come on. Do you have a little faith in your cards?
00:39:44:57 – 00:39:48:58
Agent Palmer
You think you’re going to win? Put up something. Let’s make it a gambling game.
00:39:49:03 – 00:39:53:19
Sara Netzley
What’s your preferred D&D manual iteration like? Do you have a preferred?
00:39:53:19 – 00:40:16:15
Agent Palmer
I still have the solid like good condition second edition hardcover books on my shelf, and the art from them is probably some of my favorite, but. And okay, so this is where the collector in me and the fanboy in me are at odds, right?
00:40:16:20 – 00:40:17:27
Sara Netzley
00:40:17:31 – 00:40:26:39
Agent Palmer
I have wizards based off of Ralph Bakshi Wizards movie, the role playing game.
00:40:26:43 – 00:40:28:25
Sara Netzley
00:40:28:30 – 00:41:01:14
Agent Palmer
But I don’t want to mess up any of the character sheets or the book, but I really want to play that game. So I need to like, invest in some xeroxing basically, and like bite down, but like, that’s where I mean, right now we have a Pathfinder game. So you know, yeah, I wish it was d d but I don’t know, Pathfinder kind of overtook D and D somewhere while I wasn’t paying attention.
00:41:01:19 – 00:41:08:34
Agent Palmer
And but yeah, no, I, I’m still kind of a purist with that. Like, you know.
00:41:08:39 – 00:41:09:37
Sara Netzley
It’s.
00:41:09:42 – 00:41:31:53
Agent Palmer
It’s I mean, look, you you married a geek, right. Like has, has any of that like filtered in like, I know obviously like you’re a geek yourself, but like every geeks different. Right. So like how two geeks mesh. It is always interesting. Like, I only have my experience with Steph.
00:41:31:58 – 00:41:55:41
Sara Netzley
Yeah. Pre-marriage. I could not have talked to you about Black Lotus or Daddy Manual editions. That’s not a geekdom that I came to on my own. That is something I married into. So, for sure, it has been it’s been interesting watching me absorb his interests and vice versa. We’ve been married for 100,000 years, so at this point, we kind of are the same gelatinous cube.
00:41:55:46 – 00:42:21:17
Sara Netzley
We’re going to full circle, because we just, you know, our interests sort of ricochet off each other, and we’ve adopted a lot of the same things. And it’s why I could talk to you at length about, pinball. That’s not a thing that I started out interested in, but now some some well-meaning friend asked me some simple question, and I came back into my body 30 minutes later and realized I’d been talking the whole time and answering her questions.
00:42:21:19 – 00:42:48:15
Sara Netzley
I was like, I don’t know what. I got all this information in my head, but, yeah, let’s I can talk some more about that. So yeah, it’s it’s one of the, one of my favorite things about marriage is the things about your partner that are so interesting that you find out when you’re dating, you know, when you have kind of settled into that vibe and then 20 years later when he bust out something and it’s like, I had no idea you knew that or were interested in that.
00:42:48:15 – 00:42:50:13
Sara Netzley
And it still is surprising and fun. Very cool.
00:42:50:26 – 00:42:57:43
Agent Palmer
All right. And I want to go back to your three. Right. If you have to give up one.
00:42:57:48 – 00:42:58:43
Sara Netzley
Oh.
00:42:58:48 – 00:43:12:08
Agent Palmer
What would it be? Money’s not an option because I don’t want it to be like you have to be a professor. Like if, if you could only wear two hats and you would financially be in the same spot.
00:43:12:13 – 00:43:39:28
Sara Netzley
This. Oh, this is. You are really putting me on the spot here. It would probably be the recapping because that is talking about what other people have done, which I enjoy. But writing, I get to make my own stories and I get to call the shots there. And professor, that is so important to me to be a part of the conversation and the given flow with students and with the next generation.
00:43:39:28 – 00:43:58:54
Sara Netzley
So it’s actually not that hard a choice. As much as I enjoy the recapping. Yeah, that would be the thing I’d walk away from just because it is talking about the greatness of other people, or the lack of greatness of other people to predict what I’m recapping. And I like the give and take in a classroom, and I like the ability to make my own.
00:43:58:58 – 00:44:00:00
Agent Palmer
I mean, I’m not quitting.
00:44:00:00 – 00:44:02:44
Sara Netzley
I’m not quitting it. But.
00:44:02:49 – 00:44:22:18
Agent Palmer
I and I’m not asking you to. I just, you know, because there’s, I’m this this, I mean, we talked about it, but, like, I’m never giving this up, like, I if I have to go to once a month because, you know, circumstances did it like I go to once a month, but, like, I’m never giving this up.
00:44:22:23 – 00:44:38:19
Sara Netzley
Well, and I’ve definitely had weeks where I’ve thought something has to give here because I am trying to juggle so much and I cannot keep doing all these things. And so you start looking at your life and thinking, what? What takes more time that I’m getting back from it? Or you know what, you have to look at the financial a little bit.
00:44:38:19 – 00:44:43:30
Sara Netzley
You know what is costing me, and at least opportunity cost our money.
00:44:43:30 – 00:44:51:19
Agent Palmer
Because how many streaming services do you really have, Sara? All of them. All of them. Right. All of them.
00:44:51:23 – 00:44:52:32
Sara Netzley
Are you talking like TV?
00:44:52:41 – 00:44:55:35
Agent Palmer
All of them. You have all of the streaming services, right? All of.
00:44:55:35 – 00:45:06:42
Sara Netzley
Now. I don’t have all of them. I, I cut cable. I will say that. Okay. So that is a big expense. I do have a lot. I do share some logins for some others.
00:45:06:49 – 00:45:17:24
Agent Palmer
So do we. But we still have too many. Like, I mean, I feel like there’s a, like I’ll go through and be like, well, that’s an app I haven’t opened in. I can’t remember when.
00:45:17:39 – 00:45:40:52
Sara Netzley
I, you know. Yes. No. For me, I don’t we don’t really we don’t do a lot of like music streaming. Nothing like that really. Mostly it’s TV, but even that I probably could drop some. I probably should go through and look at some the drop because we’re so busy, I just the TV time has decreased quite a bit and the movie time has decreased and yeah, you.
00:45:41:00 – 00:45:41:32
Sara Netzley
Yeah, no, I.
00:45:41:32 – 00:45:43:44
Agent Palmer
Still catch everything.
00:45:43:48 – 00:45:44:21
Sara Netzley
Do I.
00:45:44:30 – 00:45:47:52
Agent Palmer
I don’t, I don’t it seems like it.
00:45:47:57 – 00:46:02:53
Sara Netzley
I keep up with everything, whether that’s through social media and peripheral reading and podcasts that I listen to. I certainly don’t. I’m not the I’m not the the pop culture consumer that I was ten years ago, that’s for sure.
00:46:02:58 – 00:46:09:16
Agent Palmer
Well okay. But I’m but you’re are are you a news junkie? Yeah. I’ll just ask.
00:46:09:21 – 00:46:36:23
Sara Netzley
Yes and no. I will admit that since 2016, I have really pivoted to most of my news. Attention and outrage has been taken up by national politics. And so I, my Jason, my husband, jokes quite a bit that, I don’t know anything that’s happening locally. It’s terrible. I, I’m a journalism professor, and my, local news consumption is not what it should be because I’m so hyper focused on national politics.
00:46:36:28 – 00:46:47:37
Sara Netzley
And and what’s happening, you know, nationally, internationally. So, yeah, I am a news junkie. Twitter makes it much, much worse. And that sucks up some time as well. Yes. I got into your question.
00:46:47:37 – 00:47:15:04
Agent Palmer
It does. I mean, I I’m always amazed at like, a dinner or a function that I know as much as I do because I actively avoid it all. So, like, I don’t know how it’s still like how I know about, like, I knew about the test ban treaty and I knew about little nuances to Brexit. I don’t know how, I don’t know where I’m getting it.
00:47:15:04 – 00:47:34:32
Agent Palmer
Like I curated my Twitter feed as less than 200 accounts that I’m following to keep it a manageable and b positive because that’s not something most people associate with social media. But still, somehow it all filters in. Like, I guess there’s just no avoiding it.
00:47:34:36 – 00:47:51:59
Sara Netzley
It’s in the amniotic soup around us. I think it’s we’re just so interconnected and we see trends and we see things that get shared into our timelines that we didn’t ask for, no matter how much careful curation you do. It’s bound to happen. But no, I’m with you. I I’m that way with sports. I don’t care about sports.
00:47:51:59 – 00:48:03:32
Sara Netzley
I’m not. And yet I some football player just retired today. That just happened. And, you know, I just you kind of. These things filter in whether you like them or not.
00:48:03:37 – 00:48:08:04
Agent Palmer
I mean, Ed Ed talks about sports sometimes on your show.
00:48:08:09 – 00:48:17:50
Sara Netzley
Not to my face. He doesn’t. He can sense my icy disapproval every time he does. And then he’s just like, sorry. Okay. Getting back.
00:48:17:55 – 00:48:20:10
Agent Palmer
You’ve watched some sports movies, though.
00:48:20:15 – 00:48:20:58
Sara Netzley
Some.
00:48:20:58 – 00:48:27:12
Agent Palmer
Sure. I’m just, you know, I’m I’m just saying it’s there. It’s another area, like it’s Jason, the big sports guy.
00:48:27:21 – 00:48:35:07
Sara Netzley
Oh, God. No. Okay. Oh. I’m sorry, did you not hear me say he could be brought to tears over a mention of a magic card for better 92.
00:48:35:09 – 00:48:40:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah, you you could make me cry with certain things, too. I’m still a sports guy, like I, you know, I.
00:48:40:31 – 00:48:48:58
Sara Netzley
No, it’s one of the reasons I love him so much he doesn’t have any interest in. So I don’t have to pretend to care. It’s great. It’s so free.
00:48:49:00 – 00:48:57:27
Agent Palmer
Meanwhile, meanwhile, in my house, I’m slowly but surely turning Steph into a sports fan.
00:48:57:32 – 00:49:11:58
Sara Netzley
What? My. I have a, My friend Tanya is maybe going to move closer soon, and she’s already warned. Threatened me that if she does, I will become a baseball fan. She will turn me into a fan. So her team are the Yankees? Oh, no no no.
00:49:11:58 – 00:49:15:47
Agent Palmer
No no no no no no no no no. You cannot associate with Yankee fans.
00:49:15:56 – 00:49:20:35
Sara Netzley
Oh no I oh no I can’t no I’m sorry I choose her even with her Yankees.
00:49:20:35 – 00:49:21:13
Agent Palmer
I’m sorry.
00:49:21:13 – 00:49:25:28
Sara Netzley
All right. But I’ve already told her if this is happening I’m going to be a Cubs fan. All right.
00:49:25:28 – 00:49:32:38
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. And my mother’s a Cubs fan. Purely because she loves Chicago. That’s it. That’s all I took.
00:49:32:43 – 00:49:37:28
Sara Netzley
I mean, Chicago, the closest to me. And the bear is cute. Oh, God. I’m such a.
00:49:37:33 – 00:49:51:22
Agent Palmer
All right. Okay. Hold on. So we’re we’re going to we’re going to do this though, right? We’re not done with sports. What happened a couple of years ago, Sara, to your little tiny college.
00:49:51:27 – 00:49:57:06
Sara Netzley
When my school advanced a little bit in the NCAA basketball, they did.
00:49:57:10 – 00:50:05:39
Agent Palmer
They did. And and and were you you have to at least culturally be aware of that. It’s a big thing, right?
00:50:05:45 – 00:50:07:15
Sara Netzley
Yeah. Yes.
00:50:07:20 – 00:50:18:26
Agent Palmer
So yes. What was it like? Because what happens to little schools that start to advance even a little bit, is that even the people that don’t care start to care a little bit?
00:50:18:31 – 00:50:56:11
Sara Netzley
Yeah. There’s always some bandwagon jumping. But I think there’s also a lot of yours who are just like, well, this isn’t going to last. This, this going to end badly. With me. No. It’s exciting. I think weirdly, the excitement I remember more of from around that time was the Cubs World Series run. Had a lot more in class excitement than the basketball stuff for the actual team on campus, and I don’t know if that was just the mix of students I had in my classes, or my own interest was a little bit more tuned to baseball.
00:50:56:11 – 00:51:03:01
Sara Netzley
I don’t know. But yeah, I feel like that’s where the excitement was. That’s not a great advertisement for my school, I suppose.
00:51:03:10 – 00:51:08:50
Agent Palmer
No, it well, it does make sense, though, because you’re, you’re you’re near Chicago and it was.
00:51:08:50 – 00:51:18:19
Sara Netzley
A lot of, a lot of our students are from Chicago. So that was just a big you know, that’s their hometown team. And they just happened to be sitting in a classroom a couple hours south.
00:51:18:24 – 00:51:36:17
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, I’ll be fair. I’m I’m a Baltimore Orioles fan, but the Red Sox breaking the curse, the Cubs breaking the curse. These two things were huge. Even if they weren’t your team and I feel like even non-baseball people kind of knew about the.
00:51:36:18 – 00:51:50:19
Sara Netzley
Non-Baseball person who watched that last game of the series when they won. And it was an incredible game of baseball. From what I understand. It was exciting. It was close. It was. I remember thinking, if this is what baseball is like, I’m watching more of it. But I’m sure that’s not what baseball is like.
00:51:50:29 – 00:52:07:54
Agent Palmer
That’s what a game seven is like. That’s not what. Yeah, yeah yeah. That yeah I mean I all I remember about that night was because it went extra innings and then it started raining and they had that little like delay. And my mother calls me during the delay and she’s like, I don’t know if I can stay up.
00:52:07:54 – 00:52:09:57
Agent Palmer
And I’m like, you don’t want to.
00:52:09:57 – 00:52:10:42
Sara Netzley
Go to you.
00:52:10:47 – 00:52:27:51
Agent Palmer
You can’t go to bed. And it was only like an hour later that the game actually finished. But I was like, you, you’re going to regret what I told her was. You’re going to regret not watching it live. Like, yeah, you can watch the replay and that’s fine. And he but he’s not going to be the same.
00:52:27:55 – 00:52:36:42
Sara Netzley
I am so angry that you’ve just tricked me into talking about sports that I’m going to punish you by. Turn it around to calm theory. Are you ready? So I teach communication.
00:52:36:42 – 00:52:54:25
Agent Palmer
Oh, man. Oh, I can see the calm theory book that I don’t know why. Like, I’ve. I’ve purged some books. Right. I’m never going to need my bio book. Every time I pick up my calm theory book, I’m like, I’ve not, I don’t pick, I don’t pick this up except to maybe try and get rid of it. And I can never get rid of it.
00:52:54:25 – 00:53:01:38
Agent Palmer
But I haven’t read it since college. So, this is not going to be fun, but. All right. Fine. Let’s let’s do this. What do you got?
00:53:01:40 – 00:53:24:50
Sara Netzley
So there is a com theory called framing which talks about in typically news the aspects that you choose to focus on or omit in a story changes the way the public perceives the story and thinks about the story. So if you talk about I mean, the classic example is like, terrorist or freedom fighter, you can use a different word that highlights different attributes.
00:53:24:52 – 00:53:47:37
Sara Netzley
That’s how you think about talk about, you know, if you have, is it a riot? Is it a protest? Are they thugs? Are they activists? All those have different shades of meaning anyway, so I use the Cubs win as an example of framing in my class, because there is this great picture that was on the front page of all the Chicago papers the next day, of the team leaping on each other in celebration and jubilance, and they’re all so excited.
00:53:47:37 – 00:53:59:37
Sara Netzley
And so, you know, you have this picture of jubilation in Chicago. And then the, who did they play in beat for the first World Series? Who was that?
00:53:59:42 – 00:54:00:16
Agent Palmer
Whichever.
00:54:00:16 – 00:54:00:34
Sara Netzley
The.
00:54:00:34 – 00:54:03:27
Agent Palmer
They beat, crap.
00:54:03:32 – 00:54:25:35
Sara Netzley
Oh, they got into this screaming right now okay. So Cleveland so the the the the papers in Cleveland that day had that same scenario. Like they had the scrum of players, the Cubs players leaping jubilantly. But they had one of the Cleveland players like taking off his hat with such dejection. And it’s it’s the agony of defeat. It’s the same picture.
00:54:25:35 – 00:54:43:38
Sara Netzley
It’s just a slightly different angle on it, the way they frame the picture. Sure, you’ve got joy and you’ve got, you know, so that’s the kind of thing I like that’s, I think, why I am a little more conversant about sports and things that ordinarily don’t interest me, because you can find examples all over and you have to appeal to so many different students with so many different interests.
00:54:43:50 – 00:55:05:57
Sara Netzley
So for me to be able to say, let’s talk about literal framing. Let’s talk about what? By just moving the camera 45 degrees, you have this whole other view of a different experience, and it completely changes the tone of the picture. So that’s that’s why I pay attention to stuff that maybe isn’t always that interesting to me, because you never know what you can use to reach that student who’s sitting in the back.
00:55:05:57 – 00:55:09:15
Sara Netzley
Just like I long for the sweet release of death in the class.
00:55:09:26 – 00:55:19:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but you know what? It sounds like your classroom would be one where I would at least sit in the front. Because if it was a discussion class.
00:55:19:12 – 00:55:21:49
Sara Netzley
Oh, they’re all discussing classes. Yeah.
00:55:21:54 – 00:55:34:55
Agent Palmer
I don’t know. I mean, I, I sat in the back of my poetry class in college because I was like, I’m going to write some verse, and then I’m going to get told why it’s not good.
00:55:35:00 – 00:55:50:59
Sara Netzley
Sorry. No, I’m just I’m wanting to make the joke about rhyming something with a full term, because that’s a reference to spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And I just don’t know who who listen to this is going to get that. But there’s your Buffy reference. Yeah, yeah. Moving on, is there?
00:55:51:04 – 00:56:10:40
Agent Palmer
Listen, there are tons. I want to dig deeper into this theory thing because I want to know, is there like a part. Yeah. So framing is a lot easier and probably unfortunately on the front page every day. Is there a part of that class that you enjoy teaching more than any other part?
00:56:10:45 – 00:56:18:25
Sara Netzley
Yeah. I mean, there are I teach a dozen or more theories every semester, and there are theories I’d like better. Is that what you’re asking?
00:56:18:25 – 00:56:19:29
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:56:19:34 – 00:56:40:56
Sara Netzley
Well, I mean, obviously the theory I use for my dissertation, everybody, everybody kind of has their own theory. And I feel like your dissertation theory is going to be the one you refer back to. And my dissertation was based on cultivation theory, which was proposed by George Gerber in the 70s. And he said that what is shown on TV becomes the real world for heavy viewers of television.
00:56:41:07 – 00:57:06:03
Sara Netzley
So if you watch a lot of television, you believe that that represents the real world, when in fact TV is much more violent, is much more sexual, is much more affluent, is much more white, is much more all of these things. And so if you are a heavy watcher of soap operas or news or whatever, it creates this buffering ocean of imagery that you think represents the real world.
00:57:06:14 – 00:57:27:20
Sara Netzley
The most classic way that this manifests itself is by an increased fear of crime and violence in the real world. If you watch a ton of TV, you are much more likely to overestimate your odds of being a crime victim out in the world than if you don’t watch as much TV. It’s the cultivation differential there, so if you’re a light viewer, you have less fear of the real world than if you’re a heavy viewer.
00:57:27:25 – 00:57:44:05
Agent Palmer
All I keep thinking, listen, you started talking and all I kept thinking was, so what does that mean? I have a better chance of getting a portal gun like Rick has. Like if I just keep watching more Rick and Morty because I really want a portal gun.
00:57:44:10 – 00:58:07:28
Sara Netzley
Everybody wants a portal gun. But don’t ever, ever go anywhere with Rick. That’s a terrible idea. He will get you killed. Cultivation is not so much about specific shows. I guess there are theories that talk about that. Cultivation is much more about the the TV landscape as a whole and what it teaches us that that as a whole, TV is a little more, like I said, violent film.
00:58:07:33 – 00:58:26:04
Sara Netzley
That’s a little harder to talk about in 2020, though, that theory came about in the 70s when you had ABC, NBC, CBS. Sure. And the more fragmented you get if you watch almost exclusively HBO, Cinemax versus almost exclusively Fox News, Holy God, you’ve got really different worlds that you’re living.
00:58:26:04 – 00:58:48:31
Agent Palmer
It does it does it work on a positive level, like, because to be fair, every example you gave was negative. The world is more affluent, which to most people means everybody else has more money and the world’s more violent. And, you know, does there exist a positive spin within this at all, or is it just we should stop watching so much TV because it’s not doing us any good?
00:58:48:36 – 00:59:00:23
Sara Netzley
Wow. No, I’m trying to think of of positive examples that I’ve seen in cultivation research.
00:59:00:28 – 00:59:22:25
Sara Netzley
I will say the cultivation was proposed by scholars who were very concerned about television, so I’m not sure they were looking for the good. I love TV, I’m a writer die for TV, and I’m not sure TV is very good for any of us. Oh. There’s there’s bad. That’s not fair. That’s that’s not fair. There are.
00:59:22:25 – 00:59:44:03
Sara Netzley
There are important things that TV can learn and reveal and show. And I don’t mean to be quite so dismissive, of it, but I do think research, the research that I have seen and I have not seen extensively all the research. So I’m not the end all be all on this tends to focus a little bit more on the the negative aspects.
00:59:44:03 – 01:00:09:21
Sara Netzley
My dissertation well, my dissertation was looking at, whether depictions of Lgbtq+ relationships had any relationship with acceptance of Lgbtq+ rights and specifically marriage rights. This was in the early aughts. So I was I think I was looking at something kind of positive social change. So, yeah, no, there are I just Midwestern. Midwestern you. Yeah. No. Yeah.
01:00:09:21 – 01:00:34:53
Sara Netzley
No, there’s there’s good stuff out there. There was no, I didn’t find a relationship, but it was, my dissertation found that heavy versus light viewers didn’t really affect your thoughts on, legalization of marriage rights and that it had much more to do with people you encountered in your daily life. Friends or family who would, you know, be taking advantage of those marriage rights were much more indicative of how you fell on that scale, for what it’s worth.
01:00:35:05 – 01:00:38:20
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. I mean, I would I have to.
01:00:38:25 – 01:00:49:39
Sara Netzley
And this was this is like 2006. So I read things. This was this is social change moves fast once it reaches a tipping point. And we were reaching a tipping point at that point. So this is fairly out of date. But I’m still a doctor.
01:00:49:50 – 01:01:10:20
Agent Palmer
No that’s fair. This year you’re still a doctor. But I want to listen. I, I at some point I will have you back on the show, but I can’t let your first appearance go without having you tell me why I should read romance. And I’m not trying to tell you to sell me your book. But, like my mother.
01:01:10:25 – 01:01:32:41
Agent Palmer
Okay? My aunt, who is a retired college professor, my grandmother. May she rest in peace, who was a teacher for a million years. All it was like us. It was a it was it felt like a sick cycle. Like they would all buy a book and then they would read it, and then they would trade off, and then they would trade off until they got the original book back.
01:01:32:47 – 01:01:47:52
Agent Palmer
And then they would go to a used bookstore, and they’d trade that one book in and get like two more. And then those would be read and cycled through the family as well. And I’m just like, what? What’s going on?
01:01:47:57 – 01:02:14:32
Sara Netzley
I applaud their frugality. Okay. My answer to that is you, Jason Palmer. That’s what I’m calling. You know, Jason Palmer, I’m going to combine your two personas. Absolutely should not read romance. It’s it sounds like it’s not for you. I think you can try it. And I think I can come up with a variety of recommendations based on your interests and, the things that kind of flip your switches that maybe would be better for you.
01:02:14:32 – 01:02:27:28
Sara Netzley
But just like some people don’t have the patience for space operas where people live on planet sized ships and just like some people don’t have the patience for books with elves and dragons, I think there are.
01:02:27:28 – 01:02:30:13
Agent Palmer
Some people don’t have patience for sports.
01:02:30:17 – 01:02:56:31
Sara Netzley
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I am not going to probably read some kind of oral history or, you know, written history of how there’s a how did ESPN come to be? I’m not the guy for that book. I’m just not I think likewise, there are people who just don’t have the interest for stories that center on emotion and love at the center of a story that that centered those kinds of growth experiences.
01:02:56:31 – 01:03:30:50
Sara Netzley
Not every romance novel is only focused on the emotional growth of the characters. Romance can be built around, you know, mystery, suspense, horror, apocalypse, dystopia, all kinds of things. There’s all kinds of settings where you have that romance, story that that comes along with it. But classic old school romance is it’s two people who find each other, who sort of of fit, who grow together, who help each other become better, healthier, or whatever the case may be.
01:03:30:55 – 01:03:51:05
Sara Netzley
So, I don’t I think there is no shame in not being the target audience for romance. What frustrates me, and this is a conversation that you and I have had, and I’ve had with a million people in my life is the the quick, knee jerk rejection of romance as a worthy genre to stand, among other types of reading.
01:03:51:14 – 01:04:12:17
Sara Netzley
I think there’s a very real sense that, oh, it’s garbage, it’s trash. Only only Dum dum is read it. You know, this is the when are you going to write a real book? Question has come up and I am very, very new in my romance writing career. I’m sorry, did I not write a book with words and with characters and plots and start finish with a cover that was edited?
01:04:12:24 – 01:04:15:06
Sara Netzley
I think that’s the what’s the word real book.
01:04:15:11 – 01:04:15:53
Agent Palmer
Right.
01:04:15:58 – 01:04:43:11
Sara Netzley
So I, I there is in society a, an acceptance of automatic rejection of things that are by women for women, things that are perceived as feminism, we underpay and jobs that traditionally are considered to be feminine jobs like elementary school teacher, like nursing, obviously not only done by women, but the respect for those positions and the commensurate pay often reflects the feminized aspect of those jobs.
01:04:43:11 – 01:05:12:53
Sara Netzley
Likewise, I think literature that foregrounds a female experience, and certainly, let me put on the brakes here. Romance is not just for male female. Romance is not just for straight love stories. We have so many more representations in romance and so many more romances with with same gender, with gender fluid, with all kinds of things. So I don’t mean to just say foregrounding women’s experiences, but traditionally, historically, romance has put women’s center, women’s pleasure, women’s needs, women’s sexuality and all that stuff makes people, uncomfortable.
01:05:12:58 – 01:05:36:03
Sara Netzley
So I think it’s really, really easy for people who haven’t read it to just say it’s it’s trash, it’s silly, it’s lightweight, it’s not worth examine or taking seriously. There’s garbage in every genre. There’s stuff that could be better. There’s stuff that that is purely meant for disposable reads for escapism, for what have you. So I guess, to answer your question, why should you read romance?
01:05:36:03 – 01:06:02:02
Sara Netzley
I don’t necessarily think that you should, but I do think that you and I mean you, but also the general, you should respect it as a powerhouse literary genre that represents like 50% of all e-book sales that employs women, employs marginalized voices, employs editors and agents and freelancers who do cover design and build, you know, websites and all these things.
01:06:02:02 – 01:06:13:30
Sara Netzley
It is a cottage industry that brings money into a lot of of women and, other folks is households. I’m I feel like I’m running out of steam here to that kind of, you.
01:06:13:43 – 01:06:38:38
Agent Palmer
Know, it does because so I mean, there’s two things I’ll say. One, one of the things that hurts the argument you just made is, unfortunately, my mother’s response when we pick on her. Now, listen, my father and I are going to pick on my mother regardless. She’s listening to this right now. She probably knows that. Whatever. But my mother is willing to admit that some of the stuff she’s reading is trash.
01:06:38:43 – 01:06:54:05
Agent Palmer
And I’m not saying it isn’t. And I’m not saying there’s not a place for trash, but that doesn’t help the stigma when people that enjoy it are still calling it that. Like, I get what it is, it’s candy, right?
01:06:54:05 – 01:07:15:30
Sara Netzley
It’s okay, state your second point because I want to address that first point. First of all, a little bit more com theory. There’s a theory called Muses and Gratifications, which says that we as humans choose the media we consume to satisfy different needs. I follow the news because I have a need for surveillance and for understanding, and I want to make sense of the world.
01:07:15:35 – 01:07:34:56
Sara Netzley
I choose to read romance because I have a need for escape, and I have a need for joy and optimism. And those books are you are going to come through a tough time. You’re going to have miscommunication. You’re going to have hurt feelings. You’re going to have cross signals, whatever the conflict is. But in the end, there’s going to be a happy ending.
01:07:34:56 – 01:07:54:58
Sara Netzley
That is, romance is one promise, is that there is going to be a happily ever after, or at least happily for now. And so my uses and grants for romance novels is satisfying. That escape, that joy, that affirmation of good things happening to people. And so I think you have to understand what need it is fulfilling for people.
01:07:55:03 – 01:08:20:56
Sara Netzley
And I don’t think it’s fair to hold up a need for escape versus a need for surveillance, or a need for learning or what have you. And say this one is better than that one. They’re all needs and we’re all meeting the needs as best we can. Number two, I think it is. Of course, your mom is like, oh, it’s trash because so many women for so long have said, oh, you read that stuff that it is easier to laugh and say, oh, yeah, it’s just I just throw away stuff.
01:08:20:56 – 01:08:45:08
Sara Netzley
I just read it because I like it. Whatever. Because it is hard to have this conversation. It is hard to say, why are you putting down this thing that I’m reading? Is it all high art? Certainly not. But I will say I have read romance novels that have challenged me, that have made me think about how I perceive the world, that have brought me to tears, that have changed the way I look at how people use language in books and in storytelling, and how they use narrative and how they use this mat.
01:08:45:13 – 01:09:03:50
Sara Netzley
So there is exquisite, elevating writing out there. And then there is I’m reading a book right now, that is fast and easy, and it’s got all the tropes I love. It’s got, oh my God, the guy she hates moved in next door. They snarl at each other every morning when she leaves work. I’m into it. I need something fast and easy and it’s going to.
01:09:03:51 – 01:09:16:11
Sara Netzley
It’s going to tickle my brain and it’s going to keep me going. And it’s going to. I know how it’s going to end and I’m going to love watching it get there. I’m going to love seeing how this author tells the story. It gets me from point A to point B, I knew what I needed, and I sort it out and I’m not going to apologize for that.
01:09:16:16 – 01:09:46:48
Sara Netzley
So I think one of the most popular websites for romance novels is smart Bitches Trashy Books. It is one of those things where I think romance readers have sort of taken that phrase that has been tossed at us. Why do you read that trash? Yeah. Okay. You know, if you’re going to call it trash, we’re going to talk about why we love it and how it’s it’s good and how it teaches women that our stories are valuable, that we could be the center of a narrative, that we can demand love and respect, and a partner who values us and this and this and this or that, that respects our need for, you know, whatever.
01:09:46:48 – 01:10:04:58
Sara Netzley
Like. I’m trying to think I don’t want to criticize 50 Shades of Gray. I did not particularly care for that storyline or how it was written. I didn’t think it was very healthy, but lots of women read it and loved it. And hey man, if that helped them express some kind of desire, great. Good for them. So yeah, I think I think that rolling with it.
01:10:04:58 – 01:10:24:13
Sara Netzley
Yeah, it’s it’s trash. Sure. Okay. I’m reading kind of a throw away book right now that’s going to bring me pleasure that I need at the moment because that’s the need that I’m trying to satisfy. But in some ways I think it’s one of those the system, the literary system, whatever the case may be, has looked down on these books for so long, it’s just easier to be like, yeah, sure, trash.
01:10:24:18 – 01:10:27:06
Sara Netzley
All right. That’s fair point to hit me.
01:10:27:10 – 01:10:37:19
Agent Palmer
Well, the second point was, I think in the last decade, there’s probably been 5 or 6 books I’ve read that have romance in them.
01:10:37:24 – 01:10:37:57
Sara Netzley
01:10:38:01 – 01:10:53:30
Agent Palmer
And depending on how well it’s written I really like it. But it’s not the focus. So I’m not saying I’m against romance but like I’m okay with it as the B or the C line.
01:10:53:35 – 01:11:07:52
Sara Netzley
Well that’s, I mean that’s, that’s what I’m saying, I think that there are some people who kind of feel that way about, I’m going to use dragons again, like I don’t need dragon to front and center in my book. But if there’s a dragon in the background, that’s cool. And I think that’s how romance is for a lot of people too.
01:11:07:54 – 01:11:32:14
Sara Netzley
You know, I don’t need that as the center driving narrative. But if the protagonist finds somebody who they think smells nice and they want to go off of that person at points in the story, cool. So I think that’s what frustrates me is when that romance is shoehorned in in a way where the love interest is not well developed is one of those, you know, sort of flat, lifeless characters.
01:11:32:14 – 01:11:56:09
Sara Netzley
That’s I have found that to be the case with stories that have a lot of moving parts. That is a big, epic, whatever kind of story it is. And you get a token kind of love interest just to keep people happy. It could be done really, really well as a as a storyline as opposed to an A or B or C, but I think often the protagonist love interest suffers in that, and so often the protagonist is male.
01:11:56:09 – 01:12:15:54
Sara Netzley
That means that we get a ton of. And I’m looking at comic books here, kind of some of them sort of where the love interest is a name and a short skirt, and sometimes she’s going to end up dead to further of the narrative and sometimes not. And that’s what’s so frustrating to me, is that sometimes when you have those things that are just sort of the background, okay, and here’s a love interest.
01:12:15:54 – 01:12:51:46
Sara Netzley
It’s so generic. That’s what I love about romance, because it makes these characters important. It makes that storyline matter. And so often that lady love interest is such an afterthought in some of those. I’m not saying the stuff that you read, certainly not that I’m not criticizing your material. Yeah, but too often it’s kind of an afterthought that what I love is that romance takes those rules seriously and says, here is a person who is trying her best, or who has flaws, or who fails and picks herself up again, and she’s meeting this person or God people, you know, it doesn’t have to be like there’s a lot of different permutations of romance.
01:12:51:50 – 01:13:13:53
Sara Netzley
This person who is also struggling and also has flaws and challenges. And so how do they negotiate that relationship between themselves within themselves with society? And I just I think there’s something so powerful about saying these kind of stories matter too. And we don’t have to put it as, we don’t have to attach it to the vehicle of we’re saving the world, we’re stopping the volcano or whatever the case may be.
01:13:13:57 – 01:13:32:34
Sara Netzley
I think those can be done really well and I love it when they are. Is that kind of side story. But, and like I said, romance, a ton of romance, has suspense plots or has saved the world plots. Space romance is great. There’s all these kinds of like, space opera where you you are falling in love with the barbaric alien race.
01:13:32:34 – 01:13:39:46
Sara Netzley
Who I shouldn’t you say barbaric? The, heretofore unknown alien race. Who you have to try to figure out this mass. So anyway.
01:13:39:48 – 01:13:46:43
Agent Palmer
I mean, I do get criticized for it. Really, really enjoying Barbarella as a film.
01:13:46:48 – 01:14:06:24
Sara Netzley
I am a big believer in no guilty pleasures. I’m a big believer in what brings you joy, brings you joy, and I am a big believer in if you acknowledge that, okay, there maybe are some problematic aspects here, but what I love is this you know what? Just go in with your eyes open and be willing to listen to other people saying, really, Barbarella?
01:14:06:24 – 01:14:15:35
Sara Netzley
And if you have respectful discussion. But really, Barbara. I.
01:14:15:40 – 01:14:34:55
Agent Palmer
So read what you want to read and don’t let anyone stop you. My mother doesn’t let it stop her. Sara doesn’t let it stop her. And I don’t let it stop me either. Reading is a personal choice. Consume what makes you happy. If you want to learn about something, that’s great. If you want to be entertained, that’s great to.
01:14:35:00 – 01:14:58:37
Agent Palmer
My actual blog is full of both fiction and nonfiction book reviews that I’m sure you can find something to read in there. And if my tastes across various genres and topics don’t interest you in the least, you know someone who can recommend something to you. And of course, there’s always Sara and her zombie recommendations. But reading and romance were only a part of the story of this episode.
01:14:58:42 – 01:15:23:01
Agent Palmer
We also talked about being creatives, although we didn’t necessarily label it that way. During the conversation. I’ve always wondered, and I’ve talked about it on this podcast, how people who aren’t creators feel fulfilled. I used to come home from work and write a post, or research a thing for a podcast, or be on a podcast. Help a friend, edit a post for someone else, edit my own post.
01:15:23:06 – 01:15:47:12
Agent Palmer
Something that, while not maybe as tangible as building a chair, is something I can look back and say, I didn’t waste my time this evening. I did something and then, if need be, I could point to the exact thing that I did. Not that anyone ever asks or that I ever needed to provide proof after the fact. Sara, as a professor in the scenario is enough.
01:15:47:12 – 01:16:09:06
Agent Palmer
But she goes home and she recaps television for a website and a podcast. She uses her time to write romance, and in that way, Sara and I are very much alike. The things we enjoy overlap a bit, but we are creators and creatives, and probably more than anything, we love the written word, but we also know how to wield it.
01:16:09:21 – 01:16:36:55
Agent Palmer
We’re both clearly talkers, as if there was any doubt, quote, something with words, unquote, with which to go into a career with Fitz. The two of us. Very well. And something you’ll clearly have an understanding of now that you’ve gotten to the end of this podcast. But there is no end in doing what you love. While there are processes that can be not the most fun, they balance out what is great about creation.
01:16:36:55 – 01:17:03:57
Agent Palmer
So we do it because we want to create. So I’ll leave you with one question. What do you want to create? And if you haven’t started, let me ask you another why not? Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 12. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business, the Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
01:17:03:57 – 01:17:25:10
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet the podcast at The Palmer Files, myself at Agent Palmer, and reach this week’s guest, Sara, at either Sara Netzley or Sara Whitney underscore. You can hear her on the DC TV report with her co-host Little Eddie O’Hare. Wherever you are listening to this show and you can visit her website.
01:17:25:10 – 01:17:46:26
Agent Palmer
Sara Netzley or Sara Whitney, both.com, depending on which Sara you’re looking for. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And remember, all of these links and those mentioned in the show will be in the show notes. The show email is the Palmer files at gmail.com. Drop me a line. Let me know what you think.
01:17:46:30 – 01:18:52:27
Agent Palmer
Who are your favorite guest? What have been your favorite topics? What would you like more of? What would you like less of? I can’t guarantee you’ll become a producer of the Palmer Files podcast, but I will consider all ideas. In the meantime, you can hear more of me on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast with Chris Maier and my other gig as co-host of the podcast digest with Dan Lizette.
01:18:52:32 – 01:19:18:13
Sara Netzley
I do have a question, and it’s because it’s been on my mind. Because I always do icebreakers on the first day of class, which is super lame, but I want students to talk in my classes, and I know of no better way to do that than to make them answer some dumb question on the first day. I get them used to just talking to everybody, and I think the question I’m asking this year is, who are your three picks for your Apocalypse Survival team?
01:19:18:18 – 01:19:21:31
Agent Palmer
Alive or dead? Like living.
01:19:21:36 – 01:19:41:03
Sara Netzley
Like they can be living dead. They can be fiction. They can be nonfiction. Dealer’s choice. Wow. I for sure am going with Bear Grylls. Okay. And this is not fair, because I’ve. I’ve given it some thought, obviously. Yeah, because that dude will keep you alive no matter what. I feel like the pioneer woman. Who is the the woman who does like the the cooking.
01:19:41:03 – 01:19:52:14
Sara Netzley
She has the cookware and recipes she’s going to know how to like. Is that edible or not? And can she make it palatable? And then I always keep my third one open for how I’m feeling that day.
01:19:52:19 – 01:19:55:32
Agent Palmer
Wow. I mean, and the.
01:19:55:32 – 01:19:58:37
Sara Netzley
Apocalypse can be if you’re choosing, like, if you need to know that it’s a nuclear.
01:19:58:37 – 01:19:59:27
Agent Palmer
No, no, no.
01:19:59:27 – 01:20:00:23
Sara Netzley
Zombie or whatever, just.
01:20:00:25 – 01:20:17:58
Agent Palmer
Okay. Like, I, I, I want to go with Tony Stark. Oh, sure. Because, like, well, like the Iron Man tech is fun, but I feel like a guy who can make an Iron Man suit. Could probably make anything else you forgot, right?
01:20:18:00 – 01:20:19:35
Sara Netzley
Like make potable water.
01:20:19:40 – 01:20:30:34
Agent Palmer
I’m sure he could also, like. Oh, I don’t have a knife. Oh, what do you need a knife for? I’m going to open this can. Oh, well, I’ll just make you a can’t. You know what I mean? Like all right. Okay, good. Like I have my inventor.
01:20:30:39 – 01:20:40:58
Sara Netzley
Plus he is here. He is on the record as saving people, right? He’s not just in it for himself for as much as he’s a billionaire Playboy, he really cares about other people. So you need that too?
01:20:40:59 – 01:20:42:47
Agent Palmer
Sure. I.
01:20:42:47 – 01:20:43:36
Sara Netzley
Have,
01:20:43:41 – 01:20:50:21
Agent Palmer
I mean, I guess the other two are,
01:20:50:26 – 01:20:56:21
Sara Netzley
Let’s assume you’ve got Steph. You’ve got your shit. Like, you don’t need to choose people you love. You can choose. Okay? They’re already safe.
01:20:56:22 – 01:21:18:04
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, I’m going to go fiction. Then I might as well just go for fiction. So, like, we’ll go. We’ll go. Tony Stark, one of the Gilmore Girls. Because I feel like I. I want to keep talking. I want somebody who’s not going to get sick of talking. And if you pick a Gilmore girl either. Right. I guess Rory’s closer to my age.
01:21:18:09 – 01:21:23:19
Agent Palmer
But I feel like we’re not going to run out of shit to talk about, so I’m never going to get bored.
01:21:23:23 – 01:21:26:05
Sara Netzley
Is it weird that I would pick Emily?
01:21:26:09 – 01:21:31:08
Agent Palmer
Oh, yeah. Or is it weird?
01:21:31:13 – 01:21:38:14
Sara Netzley
She will make sure we are living at a certain level. She will do what she needs to do to make sure we have, like, clean pillowcases.
01:21:38:14 – 01:21:43:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah, no, I know, I, I, no. Yeah. No, no.
01:21:43:45 – 01:21:44:30
Sara Netzley
All right. Fair.
01:21:44:30 – 01:22:12:44
Agent Palmer
Continue. And, a third, I probably would, this this sounds like a cop out, right? But I probably go with Harry Palmer. I probably go with the the unborn to spy, just because maybe that will come in handy. And, you know, at least as he’s portrayed in the books, he’s a very good cook. So, that that rounds out.
01:22:12:44 – 01:22:16:27
Sara Netzley
They got great stories, right? Like, again, you’ve got kind of a talker.
01:22:16:36 – 01:22:27:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So actually all three of them are talkers. So like, this is going to be the best podcast that anybody who happens to encounter us is ever going to hear.
01:22:27:32 – 01:22:37:24
Sara Netzley
When you set up your recording studio of rocks and like vines, okay, talking to the rock, check the level. You just the vines. Okay, okay. We’re good. Go.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).