Episode 23 features artist of all trades Andrew Belling, the composer behind the Wizards score, and a film I absolutely adore.
We discuss his start, his dreams, positivity, how the industry has changed, and being talented and lucky.
We also go behind the scenes on the creation of the score for Wizards, meeting John Williams, working with early synthesizers and so much more.
During the episode we cover:
- The London Paladium
- From acting to music
- The First score
- Imposter Syndrome
- Hollywood as a business
- Wizards
- Ralph Bakshi
- Hollywood Sound
- Synthesizers
- Playing to Picture
- His name in lights (on the marquee)
- Star Wars & Wizards
- Meeting John Williams
- Being a Session Musician
- The Rock version of Handel’s Messiah
- Hal Blaine
- Dinah Shore
- Being Positive
- And much more…
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:05 – 00:00:25:16
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com a marvel comics inspired playlist. Hamilton is what we need, perhaps when we need it the most. And recently, Radio Times wrote about Shane’s Spybrary podcast, writing, quote, espionage as entertainment, unquote. Which is what our discussion last episode was all about. This is The Palmer Files, episode 23 with artist of all trades Andrew Belling, the mind behind the wizard score and a film I refuse to stop talking about.
00:00:25:21 – 00:01:09:32
Agent Palmer
We discuss his start, his dreams, positivity, how the industry has changed and being talented and lucky. We also go behind the scenes on the creation of the score for Wizards meeting John Williams, working with early synthesizers and so much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:09:37 – 00:01:29:47
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer, and on this 23rd episode is composer, conductor, arranger, songwriter, artist, producer and director Andrew Belling. I love Ralph Bakshi wizards, but it’s not just because of Ralph Bakshi. Andrew Belling score to the film is as vibrant as the colors on the screen.
00:01:29:58 – 00:01:53:20
Agent Palmer
It’s also as diverse as the characters in the story, and while that can be true of most films, Wizards is so drastically light and dark that the score on its own sounds like cuts from different movies, and yet they all fit. So of course, I reached out to and was excited to be able to meet Andy. And while the conversation you are about to hear is wonderful, it is not his entire story at all.
00:01:53:35 – 00:02:17:12
Agent Palmer
Just from the short bio on his production company site, more bro production SI.com quote. He’s worked with major stars like Frank Sinatra and Margaret Burt Reynolds, Dinah Shore, Susan Anton, Lucie Arnaz, Martha Reeves, Wayland Flowers, and Madam Unquote. And we only touch on a few of those connections. But he’s an absolute beacon of positivity, and his stories are wonderful.
00:02:17:22 – 00:02:37:00
Agent Palmer
I’m delighted to have taken part in this conversation, and I can’t wait to share it with you. So before I get into it, remember that if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or after, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer or the show at the Palmer Files. And while Andy’s not on Twitter, you can email comments for him to the show that I will gladly pass along as well.
00:02:37:02 – 00:02:59:42
Agent Palmer
Tweet if you prefer that the show email is the Palmer files at gmail.com. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com and all of the links, including Andy’s bio and IMDb will be in the show. Notes. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:59:47 – 00:03:14:18
Agent Palmer
Andy, on your website it says you are a composer, conductor, arranger, songwriter, artist, producer and director. So of all of those, were any of those what you wanted to be when you grew up?
00:03:14:23 – 00:03:16:22
Andrew Belling
No, I wanted to be an actor.
00:03:16:27 – 00:03:16:59
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:03:17:01 – 00:03:32:02
Andrew Belling
But I you know, I saw my first shows when I was, I was raised my first 13 years and London, okay. And went to the theater somewhat. But yeah, I wanted to be on the stage and all of that. We have time for a little story, right?
00:03:32:04 – 00:03:32:23
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:03:32:23 – 00:03:57:05
Andrew Belling
Yeah. Yeah. I’ve absolutely fell in love with Danny Kaye. When I was a kid. My parents took me to see his films, and I just love Danny Kaye. And one day, Danny Kaye gets booked in at the London Palladium. And his opening act is a guy named Senor Leonsis, the one that does the puppet. All right. God, I, you know, but Danny Kaye is booked in, and he’s going to be there.
00:03:57:06 – 00:04:19:15
Andrew Belling
Attraction at the London Palladium. And it was fascinating. My my parents got tickets for this ride. And there was a lot of stuff happening in the papers because up until then, the Palladium had never presented. They had no idea what Danny Kaye was going to do as a show, and they had no idea, you know, so they were kind of worried how Parnell will produce the fabulous.
00:04:19:19 – 00:04:41:10
Andrew Belling
The Palladium is a big house. I think it’s like 2800 seats or 3200 seats. It’s a very big house, and it’s important in my life. And I’ll get to that show. I’ll give you more info than you want it, but here it is. My parents took me to see them each day at the Palladium and at a certain point in the show, I mean, he’s wonderful and the audience just loves him.
00:04:41:10 – 00:05:00:46
Andrew Belling
And he sings and he tells stories and he does what he does. But at a certain point in the show, he sits on the edge of the stage of the Palladium. Right. And he’s just has this kind of chat with the audience and everybody backstage, I’m sure, biting their fingernails, because nobody’s ever done that before. But the audience loved him.
00:05:00:46 – 00:05:23:38
Andrew Belling
All 3000 plus people, they loved him. And at a certain moment, he said, anybody had a cigaret. You know, somehow my dad knew that he was going to do that. And before I knew it, I had a cigaret in my hand. I was like six years old, seven years old, and patted me on the behind. And I’m walking down the aisle towards the stage and not really realizing what’s going on.
00:05:23:38 – 00:05:47:48
Andrew Belling
And of course, Danny Kaye sees me and this becomes his next ten minutes, and he has me come forward. He lifts you up and sits me down on the Palladium stage next to him with a cigaret. And I’m just trying to figure out how how much in heaven I am right now. And he takes the cigaret from me and he says, do you have a light?
00:05:47:53 – 00:05:51:08
Andrew Belling
And I realize I didn’t have a light.
00:05:51:13 – 00:05:51:56
Andrew Belling
I started.
00:05:51:56 – 00:05:53:24
Andrew Belling
Crying.
00:05:53:29 – 00:05:53:36
Andrew Belling
At.
00:05:53:47 – 00:06:14:17
Andrew Belling
Danny Kaye, then did the magic that he did. If you know what it it was Unicef. Yeah, he was amazing with kids. He looked down at me and he did five minutes at me. It got me giggling like a yeah, like a squirrel. It was amazing. He just did this whole act with it. And he was wonderful and funny and great.
00:06:14:28 – 00:06:22:04
Andrew Belling
And at the end of it, you know, he sets me down and I can go back up. And I said, that was the beginning of everything.
00:06:22:08 – 00:06:28:12
Agent Palmer
I mean, that’s, that’s quite a beginning. I don’t think it gets like that’s that’s huge.
00:06:28:26 – 00:06:28:46
Andrew Belling
Yeah.
00:06:28:53 – 00:06:36:03
Agent Palmer
That’s meeting your I mean, they say like never meet your heroes, but I mean you, you started early.
00:06:36:08 – 00:07:00:20
Andrew Belling
Yes. Yeah. It was it was absolutely insane. Part two, which, I’m 11 years old and there’s a television talent show that’s going on called Opportunity Knocks. And my parents, I play the piano, and you know, for a kid, I was okay. I could play boogie woogie and all that stuff, and amazing. So I auditioned for the thing, and I got it, and they they did a video.
00:07:00:21 – 00:07:23:38
Andrew Belling
So this is 19. I was like nine. They know I was 11. I was sort of like, they hit that and they taped and the show film, the show, they filmed the show where at the London Palladium. So there I am on stage and there’s an orchestra behind me, and I do my 11 year old thing, and I go into money and it pleases everybody.
00:07:23:38 – 00:07:40:15
Andrew Belling
It’s great fun. And, I, I sort of won, you know, except that the winner was supposed to go to New York and appear in whatever the American version of that talent show was and blah, blah didn’t happen. You know, my, my, you know, my folks didn’t want me to do that that age. But that was how things started.
00:07:40:20 – 00:08:00:45
Agent Palmer
So from wanting to be an an actor and being on the stage, I mean, you’ve, you’ve, you’ve you’ve stayed a part of Hollywood in a sense and you’re in entertainment. But where’s the what happens? How do you go from, I want to be on the stage, too? I’m, I’m making music.
00:08:00:50 – 00:08:05:29
Andrew Belling
Other people weren’t as excited about me being on the stage as I was.
00:08:05:43 – 00:08:07:49
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:08:07:54 – 00:08:09:14
Agent Palmer
00:08:09:19 – 00:08:33:59
Andrew Belling
So I didn’t get much of an opportunity to do that. I tried, and but and I actually, years later, I went to UCLA, when we moved to this country and, went to see UCLA and majored in theater and music and, I won best actor award two years in a row. So I got back to doing theater and really kind of enjoying this, but I wasn’t making any money.
00:08:34:04 – 00:08:36:18
Andrew Belling
This, I mean.
00:08:36:23 – 00:08:50:04
Andrew Belling
It’s a nice thing to do, and it’s a nice little hobby. But like, my mother kept reminding me, you got to do something that makes a living, though. And I was pretty good with music and so on and so forth. And, I got the opportunity to show you what the first thing was. I think it was induction.
00:08:50:04 – 00:09:08:57
Andrew Belling
It was a documentary for PBS, and the first thing I wrote music for and was called Picking Remembered. And it was shot and picking at the time. And, I got to do the music for it, and it was great fun. And I’d never done it before, but, I kind of learned how and that’s what’s that started.
00:09:09:10 – 00:09:30:54
Agent Palmer
So like, was it like a learn by doing, like, you’ve got to score this. So you sit down at the piano and I mean, obviously if you majored in theater and music, you, you know, a little bit about how to score things. But, I mean, doing your first one, that’s I mean, were you excited and nervous? More nervous, more excited.
00:09:30:59 – 00:09:48:58
Andrew Belling
Both actually in equal proportions, you know, the, the thing and I find it with a lot of young composers when I talk to them about the project and everything, you know, it’s everybody has quite a few of them have. I think it’s changing as the, as now the, the internet makes things. It’s a whole different thing.
00:09:49:03 – 00:10:19:56
Andrew Belling
But back then if everybody was going, they’re going to discover that I, I don’t know what I’m doing. They are going to figure it out, but I don’t know when. And so most of my early work was spent doing that. You know, it’s like just praying every time I go into a recording. See, this is before I had my own stuff in my studio that but going in and working with other musicians and, every single time I did that, I walked into the room going, this is the time they’re going to find out that on a fake, that I don’t know what I’m doing.
00:10:20:01 – 00:10:23:14
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, you’ve made a career out of fooling everyone.
00:10:23:19 – 00:10:25:39
Andrew Belling
Yeah. Except myself.
00:10:25:44 – 00:10:29:22
Agent Palmer
Wait, so you still have imposter syndrome for yourself?
00:10:29:27 – 00:10:30:30
Andrew Belling
Oh. Not anymore.
00:10:30:34 – 00:10:31:57
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right.
00:10:32:02 – 00:10:50:44
Andrew Belling
No, not. No, but but at the time, you know, and and of course, I, you know, it depended on the what the project was, and something came easier and some things were tougher and so. But, Yeah, it’s just the other thing that happens too, when you’re doing like I did a lot of children’s shows and stuff, and that was really easy.
00:10:50:49 – 00:11:16:56
Andrew Belling
When you start graduating to the adult world and doing like feature films, then you start dealing with egos and artistic visions and a director and a producer and all those people. And that was a lesson that was, you know, I took music classes at UCLA and I took composition classes, and they didn’t have film music teacher. And I’ll tell you another story about that.
00:11:17:01 – 00:11:44:05
Andrew Belling
Later on, because they didn’t but, there was no real nobody said, this is what the business is really like. And it’s gotten, I think, in some ways. Thanks also a lot of it, thanks to the computer and the ability to fake a score, you know, in synthesizers or whatever. But, you know, producers, directors doing a film right now, they had temp scores, they put temp scores and stuff, and that’s what they fall in love with.
00:11:44:10 – 00:12:14:21
Andrew Belling
Music that’s, you know, wasn’t written for that film. And obviously it just works, you know, and edit music added to it and said, oh, you want a piece of art? I’ve got a piece, but I’ve been up at us to get in here. It’s there, that’s what. Now you’ve scored your film, you know. Well, once they do that, once directors and producers do that, some of the fun of of writing the music is kind of gone because then you, you’re imitating what they are happy with because you want the check.
00:12:14:26 – 00:12:38:58
Agent Palmer
So technology has obviously changed the music industry. And I know like I mean, full disclosure, Wizards is probably one of my favorite films. Your score for that film is look, I will be honest, track seven is my alarm in the morning.
00:12:39:03 – 00:12:40:59
Andrew Belling
Which I don’t know. Which one is that? Let me know.
00:12:41:08 – 00:12:43:41
Agent Palmer
It’s, it’s, the battle and p little.
00:12:43:43 – 00:12:45:55
Andrew Belling
O the battle. Oh, God. Yes.
00:12:46:00 – 00:13:16:54
Agent Palmer
But there is something about that score, because it’s it unto itself, right? Like I did rewatch Wizards recently because I wanted it in context, because I’ve, I’ve owned, you know, the score separately. It feels like you were writing music for different films, almost like, because you’ve not only got, like a good side and a bad side, but you’ve got, like, really amazing jazz and then some rock, like all this different stuff.
00:13:17:08 – 00:13:40:28
Agent Palmer
And it’s it’s heavy into synthesizers, which were new still at that point. So, I mean, I kind of want to know, like, what’s that like? Because you, you, you weren’t at that point, I’m sure an expert on synths. Right. Like that would have been new. So. Well, like, with all of this together, like, that had to be quite the undertaking.
00:13:40:32 – 00:14:03:34
Andrew Belling
Yes. I got the gig because the editor, the music editor, I had worked on a film with him, and he was a lovely man. He’s really wonderful. And he called me one day and he said, I’m going to throw your name in the ring for this film I’m working on. It’s animated. I’ll tell you two things. It’s going to be released by 20th Century Fox.
00:14:03:39 – 00:14:22:24
Andrew Belling
This is back in the days before ABC. You know, it. And the director is Ralph Bakshi. And, you know, if you get a chance, go to a library and read up on him. You know, that’s he’s very important, but he’s a tough he’s a toughie. So if you want, I’ll throw your name in the ring. And I said, yeah, what the heck?
00:14:22:25 – 00:14:45:49
Andrew Belling
You know, what have I got to lose? So I had my first meeting with Ralph and Ralph is, I forget which part of New York he’s from, but he’s definitely East Coast. He is definitely New York. There’s a lot of Ralph. Ralph is amazing. He’s he’s brilliant and and all of that stuff. And I have incredible respect for what?
00:14:45:49 – 00:15:04:03
Andrew Belling
The man, how the man thinks or whatever, you know, what I didn’t realize when I signed on to do the film was that he was under a lot of pressure from Fox. Fox did not have an animation department. I had no idea what he was doing or how they were going to release the film, or what the hell it was he’d done.
00:15:04:08 – 00:15:05:39
Andrew Belling
The Felix, Fritz the.
00:15:05:39 – 00:15:06:48
Agent Palmer
Fritz the Cat. Yeah.
00:15:06:53 – 00:15:27:07
Andrew Belling
Yeah. Fritz. Okay, so they kind of knew, you know, where his head was. And he knew that they knew there would be boobs, you know, whatever. Of course, you know, the Ralph and, but he was under a lot of pressure from Fox, and I didn’t realize that when I signed on, and, I saw he and I talked about it, and he said, this is the kind of I want something different.
00:15:27:21 – 00:16:02:38
Andrew Belling
I want something that will attract people, but but something different that’ll get their attention. And, it was funny. He, he, you know, we didn’t talk money. I had a friend of mine produced it for me who literally took care of all of that stuff, but, there wasn’t a lot of money, and we did, but with eight musicians and since and I was trying to figure out a way to do to give him the, the colors and the emotions and all the rest of it stuff.
00:16:02:43 – 00:16:27:24
Andrew Belling
Well, we only had money for eight players. And I was kind of thinking, well, I wonder what sense would do. And because as he said, at 76, you know, it was really pretty much the beginning of that. Nobody had really, at that point done a melodic film with since, the husband and wife team who did Forbidden Planet was at 56 whenever and 55 somewhere around that.
00:16:27:28 – 00:16:47:09
Andrew Belling
They were one of the first electronic scores. And I loved Forbidden Planet, and I loved that. And I always thought of synthesizers and I thought, you know, making those strange little sounds. That’s what I thought. They do. Well, in 1976, they they’d come a little ways from that, could do some wonderful things. But I was completely ignorant about them.
00:16:47:13 – 00:17:13:29
Andrew Belling
So I went to a guy who had sold Yamaha pianos here in Los Angeles, and he had a piano working for him. Clark Spangler, who was there’s he was the the guy that went to Japan and, and got all the synths and brought the synths into the world and clock new synths. And so I went in there and just, you know, I said, listen, I’ve got this job.
00:17:13:29 – 00:17:35:30
Andrew Belling
And I knew Clive and I worked with David Spangler. They do this lovely guy that I talk to quite nice and to, I might get this film. And I think the only way to do it is going to be to use synths. And I have absolutely no idea how to take the next step with this. And we talked a bit about and I eventually I begged him, I said, please, please, please, would you work with me on this film?
00:17:35:35 – 00:17:56:42
Andrew Belling
Please be my technical guide and help me through this. And for some reason, I guess, you know, I, I whatever I was, I went to the point, got across and, so now imagine I go and I write the score and I actually write the score and look at the score and.
00:17:56:47 – 00:18:01:05
Agent Palmer
Real quick, do you write this, that score on piano first? Is that like, is that your main.
00:18:01:10 – 00:18:19:24
Andrew Belling
Yes, I would imagine, because I didn’t know since I didn’t have computer or anything like that. But I then I hand wrote the entire score as if I were writing it for an orchestra, but where I, I kind of knew I would say things like flute sound, but garbled. Okay. You know, and I don’t say I’d say those kinds of things right on.
00:18:19:36 – 00:18:38:07
Andrew Belling
On the score then. Okay, fade out on that. It’s my first day of recording at Hollywood Sound, which is. Which is a studio that, if you look it up, is his starkly from the 60s and 70s. It was an amazing studio, the people that recorded it, it’s a smaller building. I just went back there the other day to look at it.
00:18:38:07 – 00:18:56:36
Andrew Belling
It’s this tiny building. But we did this. We did the Wizard soundtrack, and the first day of recording, I walk into Hollywood Sound and I have to try and get through the hallway because there are these giant wooden boxes long, you know, wooden boxes in the hallway, stacked, you know, and I’m trying to figure out what the hell this is.
00:18:56:36 – 00:19:24:50
Andrew Belling
And I get into the control room and clerks thing is, oh, did you did you make it through our keyboards? What? What were. What do you mean? So we spent the next hour and a half trying lids off of things and carrying these heavy 88 key keyboards into a table in the control room, and there was like, a stack of maybe 4 or 5 of them, and then something that looked like a PBX board, you know, with all the PBX.
00:19:24:50 – 00:19:30:05
Andrew Belling
What? Do you know what I’m talking about? Yeah, but the keyboard operators used to use, you know, on the phone lines.
00:19:30:05 – 00:19:33:54
Agent Palmer
So is that one of them? Is that how you get the different sounds.
00:19:33:59 – 00:19:51:59
Andrew Belling
On one of the machines? Yes. Okay. On that. On another machine you use, there were cards, long cards that were punched that had certain holes punched. Okay. And you said them into the machine and and then you know, I want French horns. Oh no no, no. Oh, yeah. There’s a French horn sound from you know. And did it was okay.
00:19:51:59 – 00:20:11:34
Andrew Belling
It was, it was cool. Whatever we did anyway. Thank God for Clark because, I the scene would come up that I’ll get to the side issue in a second. The scene would come up and I wrote something and let’s say I wrote, you know, for full, throaty horns with a little buzz. And that’s what I wrote. And so we said, well, let me see.
00:20:11:34 – 00:20:30:23
Andrew Belling
Let me go through my horn sounds. And he’s pushing these things and plugging things in, seeing things, cards and these, you know what? Whatever the magic and the finally he would hit on the sound. Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Hold it. That’s it, that’s it, that’s it, that’s it. And I’d say, okay, run the picture on plates. I’ll play to picture, which is what I did for most of the film.
00:20:30:28 – 00:20:48:25
Andrew Belling
So I was running it. I’m playing along with the action, and I knew melodically where I wanted to go. I knew the timings of stuff, but things. Then the I knew the timings of stuff. Okay, side story, early animated films and films before computers did the whole did a lot of the work.
00:20:48:27 – 00:20:51:15
Agent Palmer
Yeah, you’re doing all hand-drawn animation.
00:20:51:20 – 00:21:01:28
Andrew Belling
Absolutely. So you would time a sequence by the hand-drawn animation, which they would send then? No content in content, I think. Yes. Yeah.
00:21:01:33 – 00:21:06:37
Agent Palmer
So you’re so you’re not so you’re not even getting full color, you’re scoring, but you just.
00:21:06:37 – 00:21:07:12
Andrew Belling
Black and.
00:21:07:16 – 00:21:08:15
Agent Palmer
Black and white.
00:21:08:19 – 00:21:32:54
Andrew Belling
And sometimes pencil tests. Okay. Pencil sketch and and so, so you get a sequence and I get a sequence from Ralph and it’s like a minute, 12 seconds, 14 frames, whatever. It was something like that. Okay. And I write a piece of music that with the tempos and all the rest of that stuff. And as you mentioned, it’s not a film that has a particular blend setting.
00:21:33:08 – 00:21:57:49
Andrew Belling
It’s suddenly this then suddenly, then suddenly everybody different styles and, you know, all that roto rotoscoping stuff. And those when you’re writing music, especially stuff that changes that direction very quickly, you got to catch that stuff. You know, if I was writing a soppy love ballad, you know, for for avatar, whatever it was, and suddenly we’re in the battles and I have to catch that, and and there has to be the aggression on that.
00:21:57:54 – 00:22:07:52
Andrew Belling
That was interesting. But I figured all of that stuff out. And then we got in the studio and we started running the latest cut of the film.
00:22:07:57 – 00:22:16:16
Agent Palmer
Okay. So this is where there’s like an edit and you’re off by a smidge, right? It’s like a half a beat, right? Probably.
00:22:16:16 – 00:22:41:59
Andrew Belling
Which is. And more and sometimes more. Okay. Yes. So we had to contend with that. And, that there’s a frustration level involved in that. And, you know, you’re putting in 12, 14 hour days anyway. So it was interesting. It was a fascinating week. Adjusting and doing stuff. And Ralph came to the studio a couple of times.
00:22:42:04 – 00:22:51:42
Andrew Belling
And I because of, because of that thing I told you beforehand about. Yeah, this is what I’m going to find out what I’m doing. You know.
00:22:51:47 – 00:23:18:10
Andrew Belling
I can’t figure every time he came to the studio, I was going to hear this. You’re fired, you know? What are you thinking? What am I spending the last box on? So there’s a certain amount of that pressure. There always is. That continues today. But now, because of the way the business is, the film is pre scored. Once you once the temp track is done, the composer does, a track with synthesizers that become the orchestra.
00:23:18:15 – 00:23:35:54
Andrew Belling
And then later at the the producer buys off on it. Then you go to London or we, you know, whatever it is and conduct London Symphony. So it was a different it was a different animal back then. And, I just had the I really believe that Ralph hated what I did. I thought he hated oh my God.
00:23:36:05 – 00:23:59:46
Andrew Belling
And then we’d sit through and playback a sequence with some of the synth sounds and all the rest of it, and I’d look to him for some sine. Sure. And, again, he was dealing with a lot of stuff from the studios, and I didn’t know it at the time. I thought that he was completely and totally involved in hating my school.
00:23:59:51 – 00:24:26:57
Andrew Belling
That’s how I went through that entire week, ten days of, they met virtually. My friend Don Perry, who, bless his heart, produced a whole stuff, kept, kept me seated and kept, kept me from going crazy and kept Ralph happy and did all that stuff done to them. Brilliant. Brilliant. Other. But it was a tough time because I never really knew what to expect, and there was no way to to send it, you know, say if I said to okay, this is advertised theme, but it’s going to be played on sort of like a bassoon ish sound.
00:24:27:01 – 00:24:42:44
Andrew Belling
There was no way to send him what sort of sound? As soon as sound was there, it was ultimately going to use. You have to trust me. Yeah. So then he’d come in and he’d see this, and he’d hear this kind of musical farting and not really figure out what the heck was going on. It was it was interesting.
00:24:42:51 – 00:24:43:39
Andrew Belling
It was very interesting.
00:24:43:39 – 00:25:08:22
Agent Palmer
Now it sounds like there’s a aside from the pressures from Ralph and the deadline. That still must have been fun. As far as here’s all these new sounds, here’s all these new things I can do. I mean, I know there’s that pressure there, but like, do you look back and go like, well, that was like the wild, wild West, like it’s gone anyway.
00:25:08:27 – 00:25:26:44
Andrew Belling
Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was an adventure. And doing the job is an adventure anyway. But it was a particular adventure because I had no idea before walking in the door what I was going to walk out with, you know, now, if I were to score a film with an orchestra, you know, I know what strings and I know what I know.
00:25:26:49 – 00:25:46:26
Andrew Belling
You know, I know what it’s the end result is going to be. And I can pretty much convey that with, you know, synth sounds, you know, mid-sentence and stuff. I can I can pretty much get the idea across and then go to the orchestra. But yeah, back in those days, who knew? You know what? What sounds there was a little got to make.
00:25:46:30 – 00:26:13:42
Andrew Belling
And the the thing I found out years and years later is that there is a whole group of people, God bless them, who, who like, like wizards and enjoyed the film, which really surprised the hell out of it. And they know every single synthesizer from 1960s. So 1976, they knew every single one, you know, and I’m using stuff that’s straight out of the box that doesn’t even, you know, had the copyright and stuff that, you know, some of the stuff.
00:26:13:47 – 00:26:28:14
Andrew Belling
And that’s straight from Japan, you know, this is what they do. Unfortunately, Clarke had the head, the mind to look at this stuff and go, oh yeah, I don’t know, blah blah. And he knew he knew pretty much what they were. But, you know, this is a strange time.
00:26:28:19 – 00:26:43:06
Agent Palmer
Now, do you hear from like other musicians about how wizards like I mean obviously there’s fans, but has wizards, have you heard from other people that like as a score, Wizards has influenced other composers?
00:26:43:11 – 00:27:10:40
Andrew Belling
I, I haven’t heard that so much. The the funny thing about is I didn’t realize until a couple of decades after the film came out what Wizards actually is. For all its all the problems and all the all the stuff and all whatever there is an amazing group of people that really love the film and and people that have been very kind about the music.
00:27:10:40 – 00:27:32:16
Andrew Belling
I mean, it, two years ago, chap in Portland, you may have seen the YouTube stuff. I don’t know that, he decided to put out an LP version. Yeah, of. Okay. Right. Okay. So he said, listen, I’m going to have a it’s the 43rd anniversary, 44th anniversary, and we’re going to get a screening of the film at the Hollywood Theater in Portland.
00:27:32:16 – 00:27:50:53
Andrew Belling
And we’d like you to come up and there’ll be some audience participation. And, I thought, this is one of my other, you know, might have. Casey said, yeah, let’s we should do this. And I’m going, oh, no, yeah, it’s going to be 12 nerds. Really? Who’s going to be, you know, it’s going to be embarrassing. And he said, no, you should go, you should go.
00:27:50:53 – 00:28:13:36
Andrew Belling
You should really go. And, so we flew up to Portland and, Daniel, the guy that organized the whole thing and put out these albums, sweet, actually, sweetheart, his wife, his family did this, and they put on a show at the Hollywood Theater in Portland. And, he said, I want to show you something. And he drove up to the theater outside.
00:28:13:41 – 00:28:26:11
Andrew Belling
It’s the marquee, said Wizards with Andrew Bailey on the marquee. And I you know, that was my Denny Crane moment.
00:28:26:13 – 00:28:29:01
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I was going to say your name in lights.
00:28:29:06 – 00:28:47:21
Andrew Belling
Yes. My name. It was. It was crazy. And then I you know, I said timidly to him, I hope you’ve managed to to sell enough money to sell on a thousand week. The place is sold out. We’ve got 100 people that wanted to get in and couldn’t. And the theater seats about 450 people. It’s a it’s a film.
00:28:47:21 – 00:29:10:27
Andrew Belling
Did not. I guess they have digital that it’s all still film projectors. They got a beautiful relatively clean print of the film and the place was packed with people. And that’s when I realized that this film that I, you know, I really didn’t know what it would mean to anybody or who would see it or why anybody would be interested in it.
00:29:10:27 – 00:29:17:37
Andrew Belling
I didn’t know that. But a lot of people, that was really very, very cool.
00:29:17:49 – 00:29:49:34
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s one of my favorite stories to tell people that don’t know Wizards is the fact that it was one of two Fox sci fi properties, and that if Star Wars doesn’t come out six months later, Wizard probably has a much different, lasting impact because Wizards gets kicked out of theaters by Star Wars and everybody’s like, well and and rightly so.
00:29:49:34 – 00:30:10:22
Agent Palmer
Like I understand in hindsight we can see that. But at the time, nobody knows that. They’re both just overbudget sci fi projects from Fox, who’s doing two sci fi projects, which I’m sure somebody at 20th century’s like, why? Why are we doing two of these?
00:30:10:27 – 00:30:35:18
Andrew Belling
And the funny part is, the people that were involved in both of those projects had something in common. There was a we were done and mixed, and there was a screening at Fox of Wizards, the first screening before they had released it. And a bunch of people came, and I obviously have I went to the thing, I was pleasantly surprised with how it wound up coming out.
00:30:35:18 – 00:30:50:49
Andrew Belling
It came out in mono. I think you know what it was, which is odd, because I’d done a lot of sessions in stereo. But, it was it was a good screening and everybody liked it, and they all stood up at the end and applauded him. And I’m looking at him standing, talking to a friend of mine.
00:30:50:49 – 00:31:05:59
Andrew Belling
And this man comes up to me in that nice looking Japanese. Hi. Hi. My name is John. And I said, oh, hi, John. He said, I really like your music. I like what, what synthesizers did you used? You know, when I said I at the time, it was closer, I a year ago, I had it in the 90s.
00:31:06:14 – 00:31:25:50
Andrew Belling
Wonderful that I loved your melody on this. And you did a great score. And I said, what’s your last name? He said, oh, Williams. And I said, oh, oh, lost in space. And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, I love that. I said, what are you working on now? He said, oh, this be science science fiction film from England.
00:31:25:50 – 00:31:51:53
Andrew Belling
I just did the score for the movie. And and I said, what was it? What’s in his star? What I said was it was it good? He said, yeah, you know, it’s it’s a B-movie. The scientists, it’s like I, you know, so we were both, you know, coming over, obviously this was somewhat more, important films, but, it was just amazing because we had no idea.
00:31:51:58 – 00:31:54:29
Andrew Belling
We had absolutely no idea. Do you?
00:31:54:34 – 00:32:19:57
Agent Palmer
When you do a score, you’re mainly focused on the music. I mean, obviously you see the picture on the screen, but do you have like, I mean, Wizards and Star Wars aside, like, are you like putting the best you can for music, but as a whole, are you still always convinced, like unconvinced, like when you’re done or like I mean, obviously you didn’t know what Wizards would be, right?
00:32:19:57 – 00:32:35:06
Agent Palmer
And John Williams doesn’t know what Star Wars is going to be. But like, is that every project like you just okay this next or do you know when something is, like good and then everything else is like maybe,
00:32:35:11 – 00:32:52:55
Andrew Belling
If it’s a beginning of a sort of a what do you call a series of films? You know, it’s like Star Wars. Yeah, yeah. There’s uncertainty about obviously, once they’ve done Star Wars one doing star was to us. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Have there’s been talk about doing wizards too. But I have talked about it a couple of times.
00:32:52:55 – 00:32:58:44
Andrew Belling
But it’s just back to Wizard is second because Star Wars has enough stuff going out.
00:32:58:44 – 00:33:00:34
Agent Palmer
Sure, absolutely.
00:33:00:39 – 00:33:18:30
Andrew Belling
There was, the 30th anniversary screening of it at LA, the museum, the county museum. And Ralph was going to be there. Was it there? No. Was it the Egyptian Theater? Was it anyway, this here in Los Angeles and, I found out about it and a friend of mine said, oh, you got to go to it, you know, I said, why?
00:33:18:34 – 00:33:43:34
Andrew Belling
It’s really he said, well, you know, maybe Ralph’s there. And I go, yeah, I don’t want that. You know, the man never liked me. You know, he was the one that had la la la. And I said, no, we’re going to go, we’re going to go see. So so we go there. Yeah, I think it was Egyptian because there’s a courtyard and we walk into the courtyard and I’m looking around kind of just trying to make sure Ralph is in any way around.
00:33:43:34 – 00:34:04:44
Andrew Belling
And suddenly I see him and he’s got about 6 or 7 people around him, and he’s talking to them, and I’m kind of sneaking by, you know, to go into this screening and, he sees me and I’m just passing by, this huge voice goes and preparing, and I’m looking around like a movie like. And he found me.
00:34:04:44 – 00:34:32:35
Andrew Belling
So I had no choice. You know what I’m going to do? I kind of. So I go and he gives me the biggest hug, and he said, ladies and gentlemen, I want you to look at this. I want you to see the man that did the music for this film. And everybody was really nice and really impressed. And he was very, very sweet and he’s very nice and we never we never got our moment, you know, and I probably never will, but we never got a moment when I ever said to him, I thought you hated this until you hate.
00:34:32:40 – 00:34:42:57
Andrew Belling
And he just he loved the film, loved the music. He loved what how it complemented this and that. And the other thing, it was very, very pleasant about it. So it’s a surprise. It’s a constant surprise.
00:34:43:02 – 00:35:07:16
Agent Palmer
I mean, obviously you’ve done other things than wizards. I mean, I don’t want to just harp on wizards. I mean, I could, but I’m not going to. I know that you were a, session musician. Yeah, for a while. And I’ve seen some great documentaries on it, but, like, is that fulfilling as a musician? Like, because I have a, I have a friend who’s like, you know what?
00:35:07:16 – 00:35:16:24
Agent Palmer
If if I could just do anything, I think I’d want to be a session musician. I just get to play with all these cool people and, you know, that is is that what it’s like?
00:35:16:29 – 00:35:36:19
Andrew Belling
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, you the guys that really were working, I was doing it, but there were guys that were doing 3 or 4 sessions a day, you know, and, and 4 or 5 days a week, you know, I wasn’t doing that many anyway anyway. Yeah. And I’m a I’m a decent keyboard player. Okay. I can I can make my way around stuff, but I don’t sight read as well as others.
00:35:36:19 – 00:35:58:12
Andrew Belling
And you know, and there are certain guys that you hire for, for various things. But yeah, there was a period when the 70s and 80s really more so than anywhere else. When you’re putting out hit records, new records that you kind of knew, you know, I had a little, little hit to them. And then, speaking of, those sessions, you know who Hal Blaine is?
00:35:58:17 – 00:35:59:45
Agent Palmer
The name sounds familiar.
00:35:59:59 – 00:36:23:55
Andrew Belling
Yeah, he’s the drummer. He was in the Wrecking Crew. Okay, they did the documentary about the Wrecking Crew. Yeah, I don’t how played on on more hit records. Drums on more hit records than anybody else. So I get hired by Columbia Records to do a rock version of the handle Messiah. And, you know, again, it’s like, I need the money, all right, do you want to do this?
00:36:24:00 – 00:36:52:08
Andrew Belling
And it kind of let me choose what I’m going to do. Long story short, I got a symphony orchestra and a rock ensemble for that recording. It was produced by the guy that produced hair. Okay, the cool hair, and Columbia was releasing it, and it was their first release in quadraphonic sound. So that put in a whole bunch of farm animals that we didn’t really think about in the beginning.
00:36:52:08 – 00:37:13:02
Andrew Belling
But it was it was interesting. There were there were two versions, one one for track, and the other was the combination of the things that we called Squad Track, which is skeet track, and it was two channels on one side and two channels on the other. And then you can get four separate channels, and the whole point of you had four track surround sound to do an album.
00:37:13:07 – 00:37:14:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:37:14:17 – 00:37:30:13
Andrew Belling
Anyway, we did that and, they were booking the, the orchestra and I got some great players. And then the guy that was a contractor called me up and he said, you’ll never guess who. I got the drums. And I said, oh. And he said, how blind?
00:37:30:17 – 00:37:31:48
Agent Palmer
00:37:31:53 – 00:37:55:52
Andrew Belling
And I went. Really? To do this, I mean, really? And he said, yeah, yeah. He said, I promise you it’ll be an experience you’ll remember, but it will be a good one. Ultimately, they’ll be a good one. So fade out on that. It’s the first day of recording the entire orchestra there. We have a 6070 pieces. I think.
00:37:55:57 – 00:38:20:12
Andrew Belling
And then a rock group. We’re not a rock. We have a bass guitar and a drum set gets delivered to United Studio Way, and the drums has almost 360 degrees of toms from you. And I’m going to who Carol needs these many drum. What kind of. And then they said to me, don’t you remember how we and I went, oh, this is going to be interesting.
00:38:20:17 – 00:38:42:37
Andrew Belling
I wonder how he’s going to arrive, how a plane drove up to the studio on his motorcycle. They opened the back doors and he drove into the soundstage on his motorcycle. Dismounted. And everybody went, hi. Because this is how Blaine from the Wrecking Crew, this is the dude he was playing drums with. He was nice. He was he was interesting.
00:38:42:40 – 00:39:01:26
Andrew Belling
Was he was sort of planning how going for the day. He was really quite funny, but, he sat down. We went through the whole, Messiah album together. Interesting guy. And then he had a stamp made that said how Wayne was here. And, you know, if you wanted your music signed by him, except. There were characters like that back in those days.
00:39:01:26 – 00:39:02:20
Andrew Belling
It’s kind of fun.
00:39:02:25 – 00:39:23:14
Agent Palmer
Now you’ve is there a transition from that kind of conductor is what I’ll call it to like you’ve conducted symphony orchestras as well, right? So is there an adjustment, or is it just kind of as the universe goes, like you, you pick up skills here and there?
00:39:23:19 – 00:39:55:45
Andrew Belling
Yes. Yes. The answer is yes to all of those questions. For example, because the Messiah was inquired Mike Nimoy, who is the engineer who got me into the project, is a brilliant, brilliant engineer. Said to me, listen, I have a friend who plays, organ. Church organ in such and such a church. And I was thinking what would be really cool for this is if we piped the organ in on stereo phone lines live to the 24 track recording.
00:39:55:50 – 00:40:22:18
Andrew Belling
And I said, sure. And so what’s the first day we’re going to use him? I forget the guy’s name is really good. He’s sitting in a church that’s like 11 miles away from the studio. Now, this is 1985. Any digital wasn’t. I don’t think digital was around, really. And he was transmitting on class eight phone lines to class eight phone lines.
00:40:22:23 – 00:40:48:15
Andrew Belling
So he’s listening to me on his headset. And I quickly learned that just because of the fact he’s 11 miles away and sound travels at a certain speed, I have to conduct him in ahead of the orchestra. So I did that during 123, 4123. It because he had to respond to my vocal thing and play the damn beat.
00:40:48:20 – 00:41:10:11
Andrew Belling
That’s why it was insane. And the thing that that looking back on, it was very obvious it was going to happen. We did the Hallelujah Chorus. We started with Hallelujah because it was an easy one. Hopefully, we played and we got through it and I went to, I wanted to go into the control room to hear a playback.
00:41:10:16 – 00:41:31:14
Andrew Belling
And Mike Mike said to me on my headset, he said, no, no, wait, give us a while. Wait for the smoke to clear his head. I wonder from what I mean, music was that hot? And he said, no, that they’re they’re smoking. And I went, oh, okay, all right, play. There was this green cloud of smoke in the.
00:41:31:19 – 00:41:43:35
Andrew Belling
So when I finally put down the button and I said, how was that, guys? I’m good. You’re still good to me. God does it. It ends.
00:41:43:39 – 00:41:56:24
Agent Palmer
So, like, what has been one of your like. I mean, we’ve touched on a bunch of, like, what could be career highlights. Like, do you do you have a favorite.
00:41:56:29 – 00:42:11:19
Andrew Belling
And it’s a that’s a really good question. I, I’ve been incredibly lucky. You know, I’ve met some amazing people along the way and been just really incredibly lucky. And, can I can I segue into another little quote?
00:42:11:19 – 00:42:14:21
Agent Palmer
Sure. Absolutely.
00:42:14:26 – 00:42:33:54
Andrew Belling
I get a phone call from a guy and I said, hey, listen, Dinah Shore as musical director just quit the TV show. Would you be interested in doing that? And I said, yeah, sure. Absolutely. So I got the next call you get will be from Dinah. I put the phone down. I’m going, oh, sure.
00:42:33:59 – 00:42:59:34
Andrew Belling
And the phone rings and this lovely ladies voice is on the found. I ran into Dinah Shore and she said, meet me for dinner at Mr. Chow’s in Beverly Hills tomorrow night at 7:00. And I said, yes, ma’am. I went to meet her and that began three of the most amazing years of my life, career wise. Yeah. First of all, she was, she was everything, if any, if any people saw her show.
00:42:59:34 – 00:43:21:28
Andrew Belling
And there’s a lot of obviously people who did some different generations. But she was an absolutely wonderful, beautiful lady and lovely, despite the fact, you know, that she was ensconced in show business and she’d been in it since she was a kid. So I had great adventures thanks to Dinah Shore, and we traveled all over the place.
00:43:21:32 – 00:43:45:17
Andrew Belling
And we, we did a week of shows at Burt Reynolds Dinner Theater in Jupiter, Florida, and she and Burke was seeing each other, and, they they flew me down to, to Florida a week early. They were going to tape a week, a week of Dinah show. And, they said, no, we want you to get together with Burt.
00:43:45:17 – 00:44:03:01
Andrew Belling
And if he wants to sing or do something on the show, we want you to write all the special material. So my writing partner, Nigeria, we we wrote a song for them to sing and let it. And and I write. I get to Burt Theater a week early, and I’m sitting in the theater waiting for somebody to introduce me to somebody.
00:44:03:01 – 00:44:15:51
Andrew Belling
And this guy walks up and kind of balding and he had a few extra pounds and he said, can I help you? And I said, yes, I’m waiting for Mr. Reynolds. And he said, well, you’re talking to a.
00:44:15:56 – 00:44:28:32
Andrew Belling
And I did the first thing that one doesn’t do. And somebody who wears a hairpiece, because I look straight up at his hair.
00:44:28:37 – 00:44:46:40
Andrew Belling
This does have a relatively happy ending, visit. There’s a whole story attached to it, but it was fun. But it was great fun. It was absolutely great fun. And Dinah was there for a week and we did five shows. And it was just crazy. Just really crazy. And all of his old friends came to visit.
00:44:46:45 – 00:44:57:25
Andrew Belling
You know, he had a lot of friends from film that, that would come by just and just hanging around. It’s a story for another day. It’s just. There’s just. There’s plenty of stories right now.
00:44:57:25 – 00:45:05:33
Agent Palmer
Have you been in Hollywood the whole time? I mean, outside of travel, like, that’s been your base of operations since you went to UCLA?
00:45:05:38 – 00:45:06:52
Andrew Belling
Yes. Yes.
00:45:06:57 – 00:45:20:50
Agent Palmer
Okay. And the industry has changed, obviously, but for a musician and a composer and all of the things that you are, has that changed as much as everything else?
00:45:20:55 – 00:45:44:24
Andrew Belling
It’s changed along with the technology. Yeah, yeah. I mean that’s been the main that’s been the major reason things have changed so much. It’s crazy now when I think of going to London to do a score on a film carrying two two inch reels of tape, 24 track, two inch Scotch tape. Yeah, right. You know what I’m talking about.
00:45:44:24 – 00:45:46:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:46:12 – 00:45:48:33
Andrew Belling
Schlepping those things through customs. Right.
00:45:48:33 – 00:45:51:00
Agent Palmer
Carry on though, because you don’t want them to lose it, right?
00:45:51:00 – 00:46:13:55
Andrew Belling
Oh no no no no. Exactly. Yeah. And you don’t want them to run it through an X-ray machine because somebody tells you, hey, the race is all the stuff that you recorded. You. I don’t know what’s going on there, but that was insane. And to think that now, you know, I can sit in my studio here and, you know, and basically record an orchestra in Prague live, you know, that’s great.
00:46:13:57 – 00:46:19:56
Andrew Belling
That’s what the doing. That’s what they’re doing. And I don’t have to lie there.
00:46:20:01 – 00:46:39:49
Agent Palmer
I mean, has it made like, do you still is your process still the same like, I mean, you know, if I said, hey, you’re going to do a score for me tomorrow or next week or next month or, you know, however much time, like, is your prep still the same? Like, do you just still sit down in front of a like a keyboard and, you know, 88 keys and.
00:46:39:49 – 00:46:43:54
Agent Palmer
Right. Or has has technology changed things a bit for you?
00:46:43:59 – 00:47:08:04
Andrew Belling
I’ve, I’ve tried to I’m a romantic, I write themes, I write melodies, and I like to, I don’t like writing sound effect music. I’ve done enough horror films to never, ever want to do another one in my life. I, I love the fact of writing a big theme for an orchestra, you know? And that’s why my God is John Williams.
00:47:08:09 – 00:47:30:53
Andrew Belling
I mean, the man literally wrote the book. As far as I’m concerned, he is the best score of the film, and there’s a lot of great guys in that in his company, Jerry Goldsmith, etc. all this guys come Bernstein. But John Williams, you know, you can hear six notes of a John Williams theme for a movie, and you instantly remember the scene in the film.
00:47:30:53 – 00:47:47:27
Andrew Belling
You remember the people were it was, you know, and the the joke is jaws, Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. That’s all you need, right? He knows. He knows how to grab those moments and he has. Oh my God, you know, he’s the best in my book.
00:47:47:31 – 00:48:11:44
Agent Palmer
I, I have a theory that movie scores is just modern classical music. I mean, I, I, I, I’m not really with classical music that much, but to my ear, you know what, what modern classical composer is going to give me anything better than what John Williams has done right?
00:48:11:59 – 00:48:12:31
Andrew Belling
Exactly.
00:48:12:33 – 00:48:17:08
Agent Palmer
He, you know, he’s the Mozart of our time. Beethoven, whatever, what have you.
00:48:17:12 – 00:48:39:59
Andrew Belling
Yeah, yeah. And and he’s consistent, you know, it’s, you know, you think of when you go to the two major films where Robert is Indiana Jones and there’s, there’s, you know, umpteen John Williams scores out there and they’re they’re all stunning. You know, there were guys like Jamie Horner who was a wonderful composer, you know, way too young.
00:48:40:04 – 00:48:58:09
Andrew Belling
But guys that wrote beautiful melodies and really wonderful themes that when you hear them again, you go, oh yeah, that reminds me of this quote. That’s what that’s what I like to him. I got a chance to do it on Star Chaser, which was I was very grateful for that. Yeah.
00:48:58:13 – 00:49:10:01
Agent Palmer
So outside of scores in classical music, like what music do you like to listen to or even play, like outside of, you know, work quote unquote?
00:49:10:05 – 00:49:11:25
Andrew Belling
Yeah.
00:49:11:30 – 00:49:31:14
Andrew Belling
Well, I’m very much stuck in the 70s. James Taylor I like I used to love Harry Nilsson. I actually once got to meet him, which is so exciting. We were in a jolly Roger restaurant in the sunset Cahuenga building, and I had an office there, and I. Anything. And Harry used to hang out again. Representation.
00:49:31:19 – 00:49:33:44
Andrew Belling
But I loved his records. Have you heard any of stuff?
00:49:33:44 – 00:49:34:30
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:49:34:35 – 00:49:54:09
Andrew Belling
I mean, yeah. Okay. Everybody’s familiar with, everybody’s talking at the. You probably hear the word if they don’t know that song, but he’s written some amazing, amazing something brilliant. But yeah, those are the kind of the guys that I like. Randy Newman, I went to school with, you know, crazy Randy was amazing. You went to Middlebury, you.
00:49:54:09 – 00:49:56:53
Agent Palmer
Went to school with Randy Newman?
00:49:56:58 – 00:49:58:06
Andrew Belling
Yeah, we both of UCLA.
00:49:58:17 – 00:50:14:32
Agent Palmer
Wow. He. I mean, because that talk about a guy who also very prolific. Yeah, that’s he’s he’s almost on a separate level. Like, he’s like a similar path but separate level from from John Williams.
00:50:14:37 – 00:50:37:31
Andrew Belling
Yeah. And he comes from that amazing family, that dynasty, Lionel Newman. And the new Moon, there’s like six, 6 or 7 Newmans that have been around since the 30s. And they’re all the same family. It’s amazing. And they had the biggest influence on Hollywood. So Randy’s. Yeah, he’s really cool now.
00:50:37:43 – 00:50:50:28
Agent Palmer
I mean, with your base being in Hollywood, have you ever considered leaving Hollywood or is like, Hollywood’s it like you still have that? I mean, you do you still want to get on the stage now?
00:50:50:33 – 00:51:19:22
Andrew Belling
Yeah, every once in a while. Yeah, I do, yeah. It kind of, it’s it’s funny. I got hired to be, music director for A center for Spiritual Living, which is a really wonderful. It’s a non-religious religion, you know, it’s it’s, non-denominational, but it is, but it’s about the positive side being positive about things, you know, and which I am, but by nature.
00:51:19:27 – 00:51:38:07
Andrew Belling
So that works well. So every once in a while, you know, I’ll get a chance to sit at the piano and sing, you know, and, and it’s fun to do. And the congregation is lovely and they’re, they’re very sweet people, which is, you know, they, they put up with me, at this point in time. But. Yeah. Yeah, every once in a while there’s that is.
00:51:38:07 – 00:52:02:54
Andrew Belling
Yeah, I spent I got hired to be musical musical director on, a musical version of I Love Lucy. It’s I Love Lucy live on stage, and, it’s it’s a two episodes of the show, and it was literally like you were the audience going to the the filming in 1952 of these two episodes and they put the Lucy cast were brilliant, the cast was great, and there was some music in it too.
00:52:02:54 – 00:52:20:51
Andrew Belling
And I was, you know, with the band was on stage at the Tropicana Club and we did what I think final performance. If I did a lot, a lot of shows traveled quite a bit of the country, which was something I never really thought about doing. You know, they said, well, let’s go. Do you want to go on the road with this show?
00:52:20:51 – 00:52:29:51
Andrew Belling
And I said, what does that mean? You know, it was fun. It was fun. I got I got to see places that I never thought I would see.
00:52:29:56 – 00:52:49:09
Agent Palmer
I so the, the travel element aside, because obviously being a tourist on a day off is, is exceptional. You know, you can go on tour with the show or you can write a score for a movie, like, what would you prefer to do?
00:52:49:14 – 00:53:17:25
Andrew Belling
It it used to be easier to answer that question. To touring is, you know, God bless the people that do it. You know, it’s it’s not as easy as it as the concept sounds. It’s just, you know, what’s the name? Elaine. Elaine Stritch. Remember her name? Oh, also, she’s wonderful, wonderful, funny lady. And she was.
00:53:17:30 – 00:53:37:37
Andrew Belling
She tells the story about a friend of hers who was a lady of the evening, and, she she was talking about her, and, you know, she said, well, what’s it like? And she says, well, it’s not the work, it’s the stairs.
00:53:37:42 – 00:53:40:28
Andrew Belling
And that’s, that’s really what it’s like being in a show.
00:53:40:32 – 00:53:46:52
Agent Palmer
And what are you doing now? Are you just still taking work as it comes?
00:53:46:57 – 00:54:09:08
Andrew Belling
Yeah. Yeah. I have a client that I’ve done a lot of work with for the last 30 years. They published children’s books. It’s child’s play in England, and they’re this wonderful company. They put out these great, great books for kids, and, I do audio versions of them with music and original songs and acting and sound effects and the list.
00:54:09:19 – 00:54:40:45
Andrew Belling
Some kid can open the book and listen to this, and that tells the man to turn the page. So I’m now, we just did a whole series last year of some of these books. One of Child’s plays clients in China is putting out the books with a digital keys attached somehow in the thing. So a child has a little pointer, and when he points at a person or a character or an animal or whatever it is, the sound comes out of this whole thing.
00:54:40:50 – 00:55:02:00
Andrew Belling
It’s phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. I don’t know how they do it, but then you have to provide like thousands of sound effects, thousands of, sound cues. But it was interesting learning about this, because the cool thing about it is, yes, it’s digital, but it still makes a kid open the pages of a book. And that is very exciting.
00:55:02:00 – 00:55:06:55
Andrew Belling
So there are thousands of kids now in China who speak English because of my books.
00:55:07:00 – 00:55:11:54
Agent Palmer
That’s I mean, I mean, aside from I mean, that’s quite a legacy.
00:55:11:59 – 00:55:35:04
Andrew Belling
Yeah. This isn’t it, isn’t it? You know, it’s whatever comes around and, and the if the main headline to anything about what I’ve been through is, it comes out of left field, comes when you least expect it. Know you can you can see something. I want to go for it. And 99 times out of 100 that won’t happen.
00:55:35:09 – 00:55:41:49
Andrew Belling
But then suddenly the phone rings and it’s something that you weren’t even thinking of that,
00:55:41:53 – 00:56:11:33
Agent Palmer
I mean, look, you’ve got to be. I think it’s apparent to anyone listening. And I get it like you’re a very positive person because there are people that probably in their lives have closed those doors, you know, oh, I’m not going to pick up the phone or, you know, oh, I’m, I don’t feel like leaving, you know, you’ve said yes to almost everything, and and it’s I think it’s worked out because you’ve said yes.
00:56:11:38 – 00:56:33:38
Andrew Belling
I’ve been very lucky. I have. I really, really have. I’m you know, I’m not trying to dodge that. There’s a certain amount of talent involved in doing what I do, but, I’ve been very lucky. And the older I get, the more I start seeing, the more young people I start seeing in this. There is so much talent out there that there’s just so much talent out there.
00:56:33:42 – 00:56:56:08
Andrew Belling
And that’s great to see. You know, I don’t, you know, it doesn’t have to be my game. I’ve had my chance, you know, I’ve I’ve met the people. They’re they’re a lot of, they’re actually a lot of little stories with you have the decision at a time to do that. But there’s lots into the stories. But it’s been fun so far.
00:56:56:08 – 00:57:05:11
Andrew Belling
It’s just. It’s just been fun. There’s been nothing tragically awful. But, you know, I don’t have that. I’ve done some bad films. I’ve done music lots. Some bad films.
00:57:05:16 – 00:57:08:16
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, yeah, they’re not all going to be winners.
00:57:08:21 – 00:57:41:37
Andrew Belling
There was, in fact, Dracula’s dog, which is still on my, my, my bio, but it is because it was fun to do. My, my nurse partner and I were asked to write to film musicals, and we did, they’re genuine musicals that they’re X-rated, but they’re really film musicals. And we wrote songs for them. One of them, one of them’s called Cinderella, and, the other one is fairy tales, and they’re both X-rated.
00:57:41:37 – 00:58:10:25
Andrew Belling
They’re both quite. I think they’re both quite fun. They are what they are. You know, this is nothing amazing. But the songs were fun to write for this cause Lee is a brilliant lyricism who is not with us anymore. Lee was a brilliant, brilliant lyricist, and you’re writing songs that, if you weren’t clever, could be somewhat blue. But the concept was to write clever lyrics that, you know, oh, I get what you’re saying, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:58:10:29 – 00:58:28:23
Andrew Belling
And he wrote some amazing stuff. I’m very, very proud of that stuff. Nobody wants to listen to them. I mean, you know, you can’t interest anybody in them because they’re excited, you know, musicals. But they were fun and so the thing is, every once in a while, you know, it’s showtime or whatever it is at 3:00 in the morning, you turn on the TV, it’s like, oh, that’s very dear.
00:58:28:26 – 00:58:29:48
Andrew Belling
Okay.
00:58:29:52 – 00:58:49:07
Agent Palmer
Is is creating something your favorite part of everything? Like, it sounds like like, you know, from listening to you, it sounds like the creative process of like just writing something new and creating something is your like, that’s the most fun for you?
00:58:49:12 – 00:59:08:30
Andrew Belling
Yeah, yeah. You know, creating is great fun. The, the joy of it is learning how to work with people and, you know, to, to be, you know, to know your craft well enough to be confident with it, but also to open the door to, to other people to, to input, you know.
00:59:08:34 – 00:59:27:40
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, I guess it leads to this one question, which is how long did it take you to be confident in your own, in your stuff? Because obviously you said in the beginning you had imposter syndrome. So like, those two things kind of contradict each other. What?
00:59:27:45 – 00:59:30:19
Andrew Belling
Well, it.
00:59:30:34 – 00:59:52:29
Andrew Belling
I don’t yeah. I have gotten to the point where I don’t walk into a studio and go, today, they’re going to find out I’m a phony. You know, I, I think I become realistic about what I can and can’t do. And, once I accepted that, you know, I had, then I wouldn’t take work. And I’m not going to take work conducting the Wagner series of operas.
00:59:52:34 – 01:00:13:38
Andrew Belling
No. No way. You know, but I do. If it’s something within my my my wheelhouse. Yeah. That’s it’s it’s fun to do. It’s fun to do it. It’s also getting to the point where at this point in my life, you know, I, you know, I’m kind of aging because there’s there’s fewer years ahead and then we’re behind.
01:00:13:38 – 01:00:32:14
Andrew Belling
So now it’s a matter of trying to find stuff to do. And of course, right now it’s crazy. There’s nothing. There’s just nothing. So, yeah, you know, I have friends who who say to me, you know, is is it driving you crazy, staying home and not being able to work, not doing anything? And I said, you know what I am?
01:00:32:14 – 01:00:47:19
Andrew Belling
I’m a composer and songwriter and producer and that’s my life. That’s always been my life. It’s always been. Here’s a major project. And now.
01:00:47:24 – 01:00:50:39
Andrew Belling
A month, two months, three months. Yeah, yeah.
01:00:50:44 – 01:01:08:16
Agent Palmer
It’s is there anything left that you haven’t done? Like, you’ve done movies, you’ve done TV, you’ve done theater. Like, is there anything left that you’re like, that’s the one thing I still want to do.
01:01:08:21 – 01:01:34:44
Andrew Belling
Probably. Came very close to directing my first Broadway show, which would have been nice if it happened. But that that would be fun. But there’s the the problem now in the industry, as far as I’m concerned, is that I’m a really easygoing guy. You know, I’m not a politician. I don’t play, I don’t play the game.
01:01:34:49 – 01:01:58:14
Andrew Belling
And it’s very much that right now. And I it’s just you that it have to be a really special job with some special people involved in, because there’s that, there’s that stuff that you have to get through.
01:01:58:19 – 01:02:20:57
Agent Palmer
As I mentioned in my intro and during my conversation with Andy, he hasn’t told me all of his stories. There are so many he didn’t have time to tell, but he has so many because he has spent his life devoted to the love of and creation of the arts. But that he’s still creating and still finding enjoyment in the creative process is thoroughly refreshing.
01:02:21:02 – 01:02:44:03
Agent Palmer
I do not know if I will ever make a career within my creative pursuits, but I will continue to do them because the arts are worth our time. I find myself in love with the creative process, finding solace in my own processes, and in discussing the process of others with them. It’s been one of the underlying unintended themes that has arisen as this podcast has continued on.
01:02:44:08 – 01:03:07:30
Agent Palmer
And while I do listen to other podcasts that focus on creatives and process, I have these conversations with people close to me on a regular basis. The process by which anyone creates art in any form is rarely a clean, linear line. It wavers, it stops and starts and stops and starts again. It’s accidents that are kept and missed.
01:03:07:33 – 01:03:29:16
Agent Palmer
Place, brilliance. It’s all of those things and so much more. And that is why Andy’s love for creation, even after doing it and continuing to do it for so long, that makes me happy and satisfied that at least in my personal pursuits, I have chosen wisely. You can’t go wrong in the creative process unless you don’t engage yourself.
01:03:29:27 – 01:03:56:12
Agent Palmer
So engage yourself already. And if you need me as an ear to listen, or another pair of eyes to see, I’m here as your sounding board. You know where to find me. So what are you going to create today or tomorrow? There’s something you’ve been thinking of doing. Why not start it today? Seriously? Get to it. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 23.
01:03:56:17 – 01:04:18:45
Agent Palmer
As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business, the Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer and the show at The Palmer Files. You can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com and all links, including the Andes bio and IMDb will be in the show.
01:04:18:45 – 01:04:48:01
Agent Palmer
Notes. Email can be sent to the show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. If you have any feedback on this or any previous episode, or if there’s a topic or guest you’d like me to consider, you can also hear more of me in the meantime on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and my other gig as co-host of the podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
01:04:48:06 – 01:04:56:10
Unknown
You need.
01:04:56:15 – 01:05:18:27
Unknown
Me.
01:05:18:31 – 01:05:21:26
Unknown
See?
01:05:21:31 – 01:05:30:07
Agent Palmer
Look at Andrew. Andy, this has been fantastic. Do you have a question for me?
01:05:30:12 – 01:05:34:37
Andrew Belling
When did you first decide to do this? And why.
01:05:34:42 – 01:05:35:56
Agent Palmer
This show?
01:05:36:01 – 01:05:38:42
Andrew Belling
Yeah.
01:05:38:46 – 01:06:00:23
Agent Palmer
I first started to think about it two years ago, actually, this this was a long time coming. I had been on other people’s shows for a very long time and behind the scenes on other things, and I just, it was time to come out from behind the curtain, so to speak. And it was like, all right, I guess it’s my turn.
01:06:00:23 – 01:06:09:07
Agent Palmer
I get to have these conversations with the people I want now instead of, you know, doing the prep and putting it out for someone else.
01:06:09:12 – 01:06:14:18
Andrew Belling
Good. Are you satisfied and happy with the way it’s turned out? Yes.
01:06:14:23 – 01:06:34:13
Agent Palmer
Yes, yes. Because I, I have come to the idea. So I’ve been a blogger for like 6 or 7 years and, and you know, with the blog, the most important thing is putting out a quality product. When I hit publish, if I’m proud of it, that’s fine. I don’t need to make any money. And I’m taking that same approach with this.
01:06:34:13 – 01:07:01:57
Agent Palmer
So, you know, I’ll I’ll take this episode. I’ll edit it to, you know, make, you know, tighten it up where it needs to be tight. That’s fine. You know, put an intro and outro together and then put it out. And as long as I’m proud of what I hit, publish on, that’s fine. And you know, the secondary part, but which is like 1 in 1 day is I get to have this conversation with you, which, even if it never goes anywhere like this, is wonderful.
01:07:02:02 – 01:07:08:39
Andrew Belling
Oh, thank you, thank you. But thank you for encouraging me to to speak, I appreciate it. I really do.
01:07:08:50 – 01:07:33:07
Agent Palmer
Know. I mean, you’ve got a first of all, like the stories you have are. I mean, I could talk to you for the next three hours like I and you you I mean, you’ve clearly got stories to fill that time. I everybody’s got a story not everybody is willing to share it or comfortable sharing it, but everybody’s got a story.
01:07:33:07 – 01:07:42:12
Agent Palmer
We’ve all lived our lives. We’ve all gotten to wherever we are. And that hasn’t been because we sat down and did nothing right.
01:07:42:17 – 01:07:49:46
Andrew Belling
So can I tell you one final wizard story that, I really am very happy about?
01:07:49:57 – 01:07:51:22
Agent Palmer
Yes, absolutely.
01:07:51:27 – 01:08:10:08
Andrew Belling
We went to this screening in Portland. Everybody sat through the film. A Daniel held up. He said, you know, we know we have the album for sale in the in the lobby. And he said, just just out of curiosity. And I was standing on the stage at the time, it was said, how many people have bought the album?
01:08:10:13 – 01:08:41:46
Andrew Belling
And about 200 people held up their albums, and in my heart, it was, oh my God, oh my God, this, this is wow. And then he said, and you’ll be sitting at a table and you’ll be happy to sign your albums and, and chat with you and all the rest and stuff. And so at the end, people lined up and my friend Casey, who came with me, he went out to see and people were lined up around the block with albums, and they all came up to the table.
01:08:41:46 – 01:09:11:56
Andrew Belling
And I wanted everybody to feel like we had a connection. I didn’t want to go, just no thank you. You know, you know, just want it just just a bit and I asked them, what does wizards mean to you? And almost I would think when we have it on video to about 60, 70% of people said it was the first movie I really connected with my father when I was 12.
01:09:12:01 – 01:09:36:49
Andrew Belling
Well, it’s an 11. That was the film. My dad took me to see it, and it was the first time we really connected. And I heard the story once and I heard the story again, and I heard the story again, and and I’m looking at Casey and he’s like, he’s just kind of amazed as I am. There was that whatever it was, but it wasn’t the music, it was whatever.
01:09:36:49 – 01:09:47:19
Andrew Belling
It was about wizards that for some reason, for some of these people, it marked a difference in their family dynamic.
01:09:47:24 – 01:09:50:07
Agent Palmer
Beautiful.
01:09:50:11 – 01:09:50:33
Andrew Belling
That’s it.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).