Episode 118 features Katherine Silva, who is a published author, an editor-in-chief of a small press, who writes horror but with a mix of grief and existentialism, as opposed to just slash’em and bash’em.
We talk about writing, getting into horror, living in Maine, process, online communities, Anthony Bourdain, the DIY nature of indies, being workaholics, lists, balance, and much much more…
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
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00:00:00:03 – 00:00:27:11
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com a perfect pairing of extraordinary Canadians McLuhan and Copeland. NASCAR full speed is fast fun but will never pass. Drive to survive. And yes, Nick will be invited back on to talk about what he actually does for a living. This is The Palmer Files episode 118 with Katherine Silva, who is a published author and editor in chief of the small press who writes horror but with a mix of grief and existentialism as opposed to just yours and Basham.
00:00:27:16 – 00:01:12:28
Agent Palmer
We talk about writing, getting into horror, living in Maine process online communities, Anthony Bourdain, the DIY nature of Independents, being workaholics, list’s balance and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:12:33 – 00:01:31:01
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 118th episode is Katherine Silva. Kat and I were strangers until this conversation, but there is a lot more that we have in common than just using words for our passions of creation, whatever those may be, meaning they aren’t limited to anything.
00:01:31:06 – 00:02:02:22
Agent Palmer
Kat is a one person creative force with accolades and passion for the written word and publishing. Here in this conversation, you’ll listen to us discuss the writing addiction, finding your community, being balanced, or perhaps not being workaholics. Organization lists our internal monologues horror, misrepresentation, and much, much more. But before we dive in, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all related ways to contact my guest, Katherine Silva and myself in the show notes.
00:02:02:34 – 00:02:22:30
Agent Palmer
There you will also find links to Kat’s site at Katherine Silva, author.com. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. Now sit back and imagine a scene that looks straight out of the Blair Witch Project. Black and white, grainy, probably a little cold, except that it’s not.
00:02:22:30 – 00:02:46:35
Agent Palmer
It’s comfortable in a well-lit room, and while something nefarious may be going on in the subtext or our main characters can myself are relatively unaware of this evil spirit. However, the evil spirit is really only here to wreak havoc with Kat’s audio. So we did the best we could. Anyway, without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:46:39 – 00:03:11:18
Agent Palmer
Kat, you are into and around all things the written word. I know you’re not exclusive to that, but you are a writer and a consultant and in charge of, like, associations and all things related to the written word. What’s the one question you get from everybody when you tell them, like, I’m in publishing?
00:03:11:23 – 00:03:43:43
Katherine Silva
It’s so I don’t I don’t usually preface that I’m in publishing. Typically I’ll say I’m a writer, okay. And that elicits this response of like, you know, this this very thrilled, like to, see your creative and, and then from there it goes to what do you write? And then as soon as I say I write horror, that’s where people usually either go like, yeah, or go, oh, you mean like Stephen King?
00:03:43:56 – 00:03:49:25
Agent Palmer
Wait, wait. Even. Okay. Hold on. Even now. Like even now, Stephen King is the go to.
00:03:49:27 – 00:04:24:47
Katherine Silva
Oh yeah. Okay. So I’m also it’s mean like everybody here is still kind of a little behind the times, I guess. But the people I interact with a lot of the time are not in the, the literary sphere as much. They’re more just like every day. So they, they’re very confused by the fact that horror, the horror genre is a growing, popular thing because it really hasn’t.
00:04:24:52 – 00:04:35:11
Katherine Silva
It any name yet. And, despite the fact that Stephen King is from, and there’s like, the the horror king.
00:04:35:18 – 00:04:37:33
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:04:37:38 – 00:04:39:55
Katherine Silva
Yeah. It’s weird. It’s really weird.
00:04:40:00 – 00:05:18:46
Agent Palmer
I, I’m still horror adjacent. I’m not the biggest fan. Just in general, like the genres never really grabbed me beyond Clive Barker. And I always say that that makes me horror adjacent because I’ve. Look, I’m reading some of his horror stuff, but I started on his fantasy stuff, which had in indubitably has, like, horror elements. But I don’t know, I, I come from the blockbuster generation of like, what cheesy horror movie can we put on?
00:05:18:51 – 00:05:39:12
Agent Palmer
And yet somehow that never translated into the written word for me. Somehow, I don’t know. I get, I get, I get teased about it all the time by friends. I still talk to that. We watch those horror movies and he’s. You didn’t like it? I’m like, it was fun to hang out with everybody. It’s just not my bag.
00:05:39:17 – 00:06:09:57
Agent Palmer
But, I mean, I think everybody kind of I. I’m going to make a Blake and statement because why not? I feel like everybody kind of comes to horror around like between 10 and 16, always too young. And your reaction to that first taste, it’s almost like the most important reaction you’re going to have to a genre. You can come back to fantasy, you can come back to science fiction.
00:06:10:02 – 00:06:18:28
Agent Palmer
If horror doesn’t intrigue you on some level, no matter how much it scares you, you, you’re probably not going to come back.
00:06:18:33 – 00:06:41:07
Katherine Silva
But that’s there. I, I think there is a lot of misrepresentation around what or is okay. And a lot of, a lot of the time people do just kind of throw the blanket statement on it, which is that it has to be, you know, something, Clive Barker? It has to be something Stephen King. And it’s a pretty wide scope.
00:06:41:07 – 00:07:07:36
Katherine Silva
There’s a lot of different subgenres within horror. I tend to write a more nuanced, moody horror. Not not necessarily be like, like a simple, wide gore, you know, slasher kind of stuff or even, like, watch, splatter punk, which is pretty popular right now. I.
00:07:07:51 – 00:07:39:44
Agent Palmer
I so for my reference, which is pretty poor at best, dead alive, which I guess would have been brain dead originally from Peter Jackson. People consider that horror. I consider that comedy. But it’s got a lot of blood and gore, like, but that’s, is that is that kind of in that vein of what you’re talking about, where it’s like people consider that horror even though, like, I’m sitting here going, like, that’s not that’s not horror.
00:07:39:49 – 00:07:49:06
Katherine Silva
So I haven’t seen it. But but from what you said, I would probably say it falls into to the meta core, which is definitely okay.
00:07:49:10 – 00:08:19:06
Agent Palmer
All right. Well, what what what got you into? I don’t even want to say horror, but just, like writing in general, because you also those other things the the, the editor, the consultant. Also, I think I saw somewhere you’ve you blog on I look I blog on a weekly basis, but you blog on what seems like a monthly basis, which I give you credit for because not a lot of people take take the time with that art form.
00:08:19:10 – 00:08:27:40
Agent Palmer
But you’re you are putting pen to paper on a regular basis in, in lots of ways. Where does it start?
00:08:27:45 – 00:08:51:29
Katherine Silva
Well, it started, when I was a kid, and before I could even write, I was doing these picture books, just, you know, and they were lots of pictures of dogs making friends, basically. But it was a story. And so I would draw all these, these pictures in sequence and then staple them together in like little books. And that was kind of where it started.
00:08:51:29 – 00:09:20:51
Katherine Silva
And then, in second or third grade, my mom encouraged me to do this reading Rainbow Young Story writers contest thing, and I put together, a book for that and submitted it and, and didn’t win anything but I have this very lovely little plaque on my wall from having entered that find in from LeVar Burton, which is pretty cool.
00:09:20:51 – 00:09:54:58
Katherine Silva
And, and from there, it just kind of like stuck with me that I wanted to tell stories and I wrote, you know, weird little stories about haunted houses and witches and scarecrows and things like that. And, and then about middle school, I discovered the desire to write longer stuff. So I started writing novels and completed my first novel freshman year of high school.
00:09:55:03 – 00:10:22:17
Katherine Silva
And it was bad. It was very bad. It was about a thief who is also a professional piano player, who goes to a house and tries to steal in with his sword, and it just seems like off in another land. But, but I came back to my horror roots, after high school, after graduating high school.
00:10:22:17 – 00:10:27:00
Katherine Silva
And that’s when I started writing horror or.
00:10:27:05 – 00:10:53:13
Agent Palmer
Okay. And like, I, I, I was fishing, by the way, because when I tell people that I’m a blogger, they go, how do you make money at that? And so, and I try and avoid the, the, the subject at all costs because, you know, you got to podcast too. Yeah. Making any money I think. No, no, no.
00:10:53:13 – 00:11:27:46
Agent Palmer
So like I, I try and avoid it. But at the same time, I’m curious when I meet other people who are creative because, not every, you know, I, we define ourselves by what we want to do. Like, you know, everybody likes to talk about different kinds of identities, especially as we’ve gotten in the last maybe decade. And I don’t know, I’m not defined by my work, but I like to think that some of the creative work I do defines me, but that doesn’t make me money.
00:11:27:46 – 00:11:47:05
Agent Palmer
And so therefore, when people are like, well, what do you do? Well, I, I, you know, I, I have a blog and a podcast and like, well how do you make money? It’s like, but that’s not that. That’s not why I do it. But like it inevitably comes up money always. Everybody always wants to know how you make money at it.
00:11:47:10 – 00:12:13:36
Agent Palmer
You, you’ve obviously sold some books and obviously you’ve done some other stuff, but like. And maybe in a, in a smaller bubble in Maine, it’s not that big of a deal. But like, do people ask you, do people bother you belly who you know or like, are your parents like, maybe you should get a real job like those things, which we’ve all been through, by the way, I you know, it’s not.
00:12:13:41 – 00:12:46:15
Katherine Silva
Yeah. It’s you can’t really be an indie horror author and not have a day job. Okay? It’s, unless you’re really, really lucky. That’s just not how it goes. So I do have a day job, and I have have worked the same day job for the last, holy God, seven years, 17 years. So that I can fund my whole writing addiction.
00:12:46:20 – 00:13:02:40
Katherine Silva
And really get it all worked out. Because, you know what? I’m able to take the time off that I’d like to, to go to book shows and, do readings and book signings and things like that. And, and it just works.
00:13:02:45 – 00:13:42:21
Agent Palmer
So I, I have to ask this question. I’ve talked to other writers not and not just related to horror, but many writers call it an addiction. I am not a writer that’s afflicted as such. I very much have a love hate relationship with my keyboard and my pen and paper. However, I am a blogger, and whether it’s 500 or 50,000 words, I’m telling one story and I’m in and I’m out and I get to celebrate on a weekly basis that I published something.
00:13:42:26 – 00:14:03:09
Agent Palmer
So I get to fall in and out of love with it all the time. Is is the addiction, as the word I’m focusing on here? Is that a part of what keeps you engaged in long term projects? Like does it need to be an addiction to follow through on that?
00:14:03:14 – 00:14:28:10
Katherine Silva
It does. I, I’ve had several projects where I started something and I’ve gotten, you know, 40 pages into it and I’ve been really cranking out. And then I just lose the spark and and I can’t get it back for whatever reason. I’ve tried, you know, I put it in a drawer and leave it for a while, and I’ll come back to it and try and write it, and it’s just not, not going.
00:14:28:15 – 00:14:56:06
Katherine Silva
So if I, if I start a project, it’s got I really think to me and I, you know, I’ve got a really invested in it and it’s typically the characters more than it is plot or anything else. If I can really get into characters heads and really feel them and really vibe with them, then that’s usually what helps me to a project.
00:14:56:06 – 00:15:10:17
Agent Palmer
Do you get to celebrate in between? Like, I mean, as a using the word addiction makes it seem like you finish one and move right on to the next. Like, do you, do you take time to celebrate in between?
00:15:10:22 – 00:15:49:28
Katherine Silva
Yes. I’m so as a self-published author, you are burdened with doing all of your own marketing as well. And so it’s it’s really you’re not necessarily like stopping one thing and moving on to the next thing you are. You are spending a whole lot of time with this one project, because as soon as you move out of creative phase and move into the marketing phase, you’re like, okay, now I have to make other people like what I like, how do I do this?
00:15:49:28 – 00:16:18:49
Katherine Silva
And then you, go through the motions of doing all of the, you know, interior layout, cover design, sending it to an editor who then tells you all the things they didn’t like about it. So that’s the easy fix, those things. And then, and then sending it out to your early believers who, tell you all the things that they hopefully like about it.
00:16:18:54 – 00:16:48:37
Katherine Silva
And it’s a whole thing, I discovered last year that it is very easily possible to go too deep into that abyss and lose yourself into it. So I am I’m at a point where I’m trying a new thing, and I’m going to try and publish with some other small presses and take a break from the self-publishing, because of that, hole.
00:16:48:42 – 00:17:01:46
Katherine Silva
But, but yeah, but the long story short, you you always do end up spending a lot more time with a project past it. Half the creative process. Yeah.
00:17:01:46 – 00:17:27:01
Agent Palmer
I mean, that makes I, I, I don’t envy authors, or I mean, I and, or or musicians for that matter that have, when, when you talk about an independent, it’s really not just a lack of label or publisher support. It’s really just like, well, I mean, if you want to do this, the right way, it’s time for you to do everything.
00:17:27:01 – 00:17:50:16
Agent Palmer
And and there is there, you know, I, I don’t know, in my background. I know where I picked up the pen, right. Like, I was, I was on a science track until a really good seventh grade English teacher, like, was like, you know, open my eyes to the arts. And now all of a sudden, I want to be a writer, and I don’t want to be a scientist or an engineer anymore.
00:17:50:20 – 00:18:25:59
Agent Palmer
But like the DIY stuff, learning about websites, learning about AI, you know, I did. I did the interior design and layout for my buddy’s book of poetry, which I also edited. And all of this stuff comes from, you know, general education. But it’s a DIY mentality that presumably, as I’m thinking about it right now, comes from just being a geek, and a nerd and being interested in things and going like, I’ll, I’ll try anything short, like whatever, but is there a, a start to your DIY?
00:18:25:59 – 00:18:39:41
Agent Palmer
Because obviously you have to have some of that or none of this works. It’s just like, well, I wrote a thing that I’m done now. Like, you have to learn how to do the rest of it yourself. Like where? Where’d that come from?
00:18:39:46 – 00:19:14:17
Katherine Silva
My first book that I self-published was in, 2010, and I did not know what I was doing. I did it through a a publishing group that that helps you self publish things here in Maine. They were just getting me going. So it was kind of a way for them to. And really there was not a lot, of teaching on the marketing, like how to market your own stuff then.
00:19:14:17 – 00:19:34:33
Katherine Silva
So I was just kind of thinking like, oh, cool, I wrote this awesome thing. I put it out there, people are going to read it and it’s going to do really well. And it did not. Well, it did not go anywhere because nobody was marketing it. I didn’t know what I was doing. And it was part of it was part one of a series.
00:19:34:33 – 00:20:00:40
Katherine Silva
So I, you know, the next book came, I wrote that I did everything myself, because at that point I was thinking, you know, I have to learn how to do this at some point. So I’m going to create my own cover, which was, well, and I’m going to do my own layout and all this stuff, and it was all worth it was all just really rough.
00:20:00:44 – 00:20:32:56
Katherine Silva
But I was proud of myself at the same time. Sure. And only years later, looking back at it now, can I can I look at it and be like, oh, wow, like that needed some more assignments? And and you do you learn that stuff. You realize that when stuff doesn’t sell, why it doesn’t sell. Like, yes, the interior layout needed to be better or the cover needed to be better.
00:20:33:01 – 00:21:06:26
Katherine Silva
You actually needed to, like, market it, it it took me a lot longer than I probably should have to realize these things. And I had to kind of do a whole reboot and, reintroduce myself, start marketing with a fresh book. And and really try and, like, put myself out there in more ways than I had previously, which meant getting on all the social media sites, you know, doing it all.
00:21:06:26 – 00:21:53:21
Katherine Silva
I had joined Twitter back in 2011, I think, and and I didn’t do anything with it. And it was definitely changed once I got ramping up on that. I was introduced to a whole community of people that was really supportive and awesome, and, and having that community is so integral to, getting anywhere. I think, you can you can try and do it alone, but it’s really not the same, without without friends and peers and networking, which is really important.
00:21:53:26 – 00:21:54:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I love that.
00:21:54:50 – 00:21:56:15
Katherine Silva
So that’s a lot of it.
00:21:56:15 – 00:22:31:59
Agent Palmer
It’s been very, encouraging and scary are the two words that come to mind, to hear you and other authors I’ve talked to, talk about the online creative spaces, communities, discord servers, whatever, and how, like they’re Wonderland, but you have to stumble into it or no, like you, you have to find it first. It’s always rocky.
00:22:32:04 – 00:22:57:43
Agent Palmer
It’s not just Rocky going at it. You’re on your own. It’s rocky until you find that community. And and that’s the scary part because, like, not all writing communities are equal. Not all horror communities are equal. Not all podcasting like you have to find not only the community, but the right community for you or for your project.
00:22:57:48 – 00:23:24:59
Agent Palmer
You can have multiple communities and it’s just like, that’s the scary part is like how there’s there’s so much how do I find it? And sometimes it’s just it is it’s a lot of networking and it’s a lot of, pardon the pun, kissing a lot of frogs. But like, eventually you find the place that where everybody’s, like, cool and, you know, supportive.
00:23:24:59 – 00:23:42:08
Agent Palmer
And that’s not to say the other ones aren’t, but, you know, for whatever you’re trying to do. And then all of a sudden it’s it’s then it’s magical and it’s like, I can ask a question and get an answer. Oh my God.
00:23:42:13 – 00:24:05:27
Katherine Silva
Yeah. And that’s like, it took me ten years before I found my community. So and I a lot of that is probably because I didn’t I didn’t start searching, until years after I, I should have been doing more sooner, but, but. Yeah.
00:24:05:41 – 00:24:17:28
Agent Palmer
Now, are you it in your, in your personal life with, like, your friend group, are you also surrounded by other creatives or are like you, the creative team.
00:24:17:33 – 00:24:51:01
Katherine Silva
So we’re going to we’re going to put that in quotes friend group. Because a lot of my, a lot of my friend group in real life has, withered and, and spread out. Okay. And, and that’s just kind of like its main the cold months of the year. No one does anything. Everybody, like, just stays inside their their little hovels and exists in the cold.
00:24:51:05 – 00:25:22:07
Katherine Silva
And then summer comes and we kind of, like, come out and sort of do some socialization and, and whatever, but mainly my, my friends that I consider close, I would say are creative, but not in the same vein. You know, they’re they’re crafty, they’re artistic, but they’re not necessarily into writing per se. Yeah.
00:25:22:07 – 00:25:50:39
Agent Palmer
And that’s I mean, I, I have, I’m surrounded by a few creative people too, that are, well, I mean, my buddy is a poet and a writer. I don’t want to pigeonhole him. He’s he has at least drafted a novel that I did a pass on that has sat on the shelf ever since. And I’ll bring it up on this podcast every chance I get, hoping that one day he’ll listen and be like, you know, maybe we should pull that back down from the shelf.
00:25:50:44 – 00:26:14:05
Agent Palmer
And this is my platform and I can do that. But like the other people that I know that are like artists, at minimum, we can cross mediums and BS, like, I really having trouble here trying to get through this paragraph and they’re like, yeah, and I’m really having trouble drawing this thing. And at the very least there’s some overlap there.
00:26:14:05 – 00:26:51:14
Agent Palmer
But, right, writing is such a unique animal that I’m so glad I have writers to talk to, and I don’t know how you would have done it in those ten years where you were. I don’t want to say floundering, but just alone. That seems scary to me. I think I’ve always had other writers I could, I want to say lean on, but I guess complain to with someone who’s listening and understands what it’s like to have writer’s block.
00:26:51:25 – 00:26:52:32
Katherine Silva
Yeah. What?
00:26:52:37 – 00:26:57:57
Agent Palmer
How did I don’t I don’t understand how did you survive for ten years on your own? Well, I.
00:26:57:57 – 00:27:19:43
Katherine Silva
Mean, I wasn’t I wasn’t on my own. I, I, I do have a lot of close friends in the writing community. And I, you know, for ten years, I would say I had, I had friends and I had acquaintances and I could certainly reach out to those acquaintances and friends and, and talk to them about things.
00:27:19:43 – 00:27:48:13
Katherine Silva
And then, and a lot of the time I had, you know, I could talk to my, my best friends about things, too. And they they weren’t writers, but they they would still understand what I was going through. And then as of late, I found some really, really good friends in the home writing community that I can, that I can talk to, and I can of course, talk to my, my partner in crime about stuff, too.
00:27:48:13 – 00:27:54:52
Katherine Silva
And, he can sort of give me some good feedback, which is needed as well.
00:27:55:01 – 00:28:12:40
Agent Palmer
I, I, I want to go back because I, I will be remiss and I will kick myself if I don’t ask this is Maine one of those places where, like, once you hit 16, 17, 18, all you can think about is leaving Maine. Is that is that fairly accurate?
00:28:12:55 – 00:28:44:52
Katherine Silva
I think it was accurate ten years ago. Okay. I think now there is a lot of desire for people to be in Maine, and that’s very post-pandemic. Because everybody wants to be out of cities. They want to be somewhere, where it’s kind of rustic and old fashioned and, quaint, I guess. And Maine exhibits all of those facets.
00:28:44:57 – 00:28:56:24
Katherine Silva
And, there’s a pretty big literary community in Maine now, so there’s a lot of writers moving to Maine, too. So it’s it is an interesting change.
00:28:56:29 – 00:29:26:52
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I guess I just I’ve, I’ve been to Maine. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m in Pennsylvania. So like, I’ve been to Maine and it’s way up there, and I only bring that up because, like, if, if I was going to leave the city, I don’t know, I would go that far. Maybe that’s a personal thing. Maybe I maybe I’m just practical in, like, maybe, maybe I shouldn’t be days from the city, you know that.
00:29:26:52 – 00:29:57:09
Katherine Silva
It’s just I like I get it, it’s it’s not for everybody. It’s definitely. It has its things, which, which some people really like, which is, it has the ocean. It has the mountains. It’s a really good combination of of beautiful scenery and, and it’s also just different. It’s very different than, than your typical big city vibe.
00:29:57:14 – 00:29:57:36
Agent Palmer
Gotcha.
00:29:57:39 – 00:30:10:20
Katherine Silva
But you can still get to the city if you want to. It’s not that far away. You know, places like Portland and Boston are still close by. Okay. So I think there’s that.
00:30:10:20 – 00:30:14:21
Agent Palmer
I mean, you do you do you mind the winters?
00:30:14:35 – 00:30:45:33
Katherine Silva
I mean, they’ve become less snowy and more just grows rain and ice over the last few years, so I don’t like them. Okay. If if they were snowy and there was a little more, you know, to do outside to enjoy the outdoors a little bit more, I’d like it better. Yeah.
00:30:45:33 – 00:31:16:30
Agent Palmer
I mean, that’s I, I, I have a partner who loves the snow, and she moved in with me and we’ve had, like, three snowfalls in like six years. Right. Like substantial. Not like, oh, it’s a dusting. And, so, I mean, I get it, it it sucks. Winter in the northeast, from from me all the way up to.
00:31:16:30 – 00:31:53:12
Agent Palmer
You should not be 40 and rainy. That’s. Yeah, that’s for spring and fall. That’s not winter. All right. So I want to I want to take a left turn here when you’re not writing and you’re not working to write. Do you are you reading? Are you watching? Like, what are you consuming in your downtime to just, step away from the screen, step away from the keyboard and the pen and paper?
00:31:53:17 – 00:32:19:36
Katherine Silva
So I’ve been a lot of my reading material is horror novels. It’s just, I read a lot of other people’s work because I like to support my fellow authors, and I like to study other people’s stuff. Sure. You know, I like to I like to see what other people are doing that I’m not doing. I like to see what’s popular.
00:32:19:41 – 00:32:55:25
Katherine Silva
It’s when I read, it’s not just like fun time. It is. A lot of it is what also, which makes me a workaholic and, so that’s that’s work and and enjoyment, but also my I think my TV watching is a little more, enjoyable because it’s not necessarily horror all the time. I, we have been watching, rewatching a lot of things.
00:32:55:30 – 00:33:30:05
Katherine Silva
And they’re more in the comedy world, just because it’s so different and it’s nice to have some levity to all the, the dark stuff. So we’ve probably rewatched, I think you should leave like 4 or 5 times. Because Tim Robinson is a genius and, and then Detroiters, we’ve now we twice and I’m working my way through Stanley Tucci.
00:33:30:10 – 00:33:31:08
Katherine Silva
Italy.
00:33:31:13 – 00:33:32:31
Agent Palmer
The travel.
00:33:32:36 – 00:33:46:38
Katherine Silva
Industry. Because I love Stanley Tucci, and I love food. Food series. And that just is a lot of fun to me.
00:33:46:43 – 00:34:19:25
Agent Palmer
So I, I interject here because I, contrary to what people may think, I do a little bit of homework, and I saw, One name on your about page that, like, stuck out to me, more than any other. And it’s because I think I think at the time I read Kitchen Confidential, I’m burying the lead for people who don’t know.
00:34:19:30 – 00:34:53:53
Agent Palmer
But at the time I read Kitchen Confidential, I think it may have been the fastest I ever consumed book until until Ready Player One that I consumed in like, one sitting when you know. But but what Anthony Bourdain does in Kitchen Confidential and then a Cook’s tour. In describing the complex, simply and describing the simple in complexity, but yet still making it enjoyable.
00:34:53:53 – 00:35:07:31
Agent Palmer
It’s not like a philosophy book, but it’s kind of make you think it is. I like and I know he was pretty brilliant on No Reservations Too, but those two books.
00:35:07:36 – 00:35:35:18
Agent Palmer
I, I, I want to say might be perfect and I, I, I mean, I’m a reader, okay. I read a lot of different things. A lot of you know, and I haven’t, you know, kind of delved. I know he wrote at least one nonfiction and I haven’t read it. But those two, specifically a Kitchen Confidential, but like a Cook’s Tours, I, I think more authors need to read him.
00:35:35:18 – 00:36:08:05
Katherine Silva
Yeah, I agree, I read kitchen Confidential several years ago, and it’s because I had watched No Reservations, which I loved. And Anthony Bourdain has like we who list voice her writing. He’s just so raw. Like it doesn’t hold back anything.
00:36:08:10 – 00:36:38:33
Katherine Silva
Just he just lays it all out, and and I love that. And I want and I want to write like that. I want to bring that to the page, and I. And I haven’t done it. You know, I that’s my. That would be an end goal. Okay. For me. But his, he also just get a lot of traveling.
00:36:38:37 – 00:36:45:24
Katherine Silva
He had, a really, wide scope of everything.
00:36:45:24 – 00:36:52:59
Agent Palmer
Now, did did you have any kitchen experience when you read Kitchen Confidential?
00:36:53:04 – 00:36:53:48
Katherine Silva
No.
00:36:53:53 – 00:37:24:27
Agent Palmer
Okay. Because I, I would, I would, I wouldn’t call this kitchen experience, but I worked in fast food for like 4 or 5 years in high school and college and like, I wouldn’t even call myself a line cook at that point. Like, I could work a fryer, but like, I stupidly related to that book on so many extra levels that I want to ask, like, what was the relatability if you hadn’t spent time in a, in a in a kitchen of any kind?
00:37:24:32 – 00:37:32:04
Agent Palmer
Because it to me that that book specifically like it spoke to me, I was like, oh.
00:37:32:09 – 00:38:12:21
Katherine Silva
So I’m not a yeah, it’s I think it’s less about the industry and more about the, the fact that I, I tend to be a workaholic and no matter what it is, so you lose yourself in your own work is definitely something that I have not been able to relate to anybody else. And in my particular industry, and, and so when I read a book about somebody who was a workaholic such as Anthony Bourdain was, and then it, you know, it became his passion, it just, it did speak to me.
00:38:12:26 – 00:38:30:17
Katherine Silva
I could, you know, I can see through the, the industry and straight to the person that he was. And it does it continues to inspire me. I started rereading it, not that long ago.
00:38:30:19 – 00:39:02:38
Agent Palmer
It’s just. How do you manage anything if you’re a workaholic, when you have, a day job and, a passion project, like, how do you. Where does your balance come from? And I, I ask this question as a person who, is also a workaholic, like, if, you know, I, I don’t know that it was a choice.
00:39:02:43 – 00:39:26:33
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know if this is relatable to those out there listening, but, like, I can watch a movie, I can watch a few episodes of a television show and I can read a book, but if I’m not doing anything of any of those things, if I’m not actively consuming something, I feel like I’m wasting my morning, my afternoon, and my evening.
00:39:26:38 – 00:39:52:41
Agent Palmer
I need to be editing this, researching this, drafting something else, or, collecting my time. I, you know, I could probably be promoting all of this more because we could all do that better. Like, but I feel like I always need to be doing something. It’s not so much that I’m a a workaholic. It’s just that I’m always thinking of like, oh, you you should probably like my internal monologues.
00:39:52:41 – 00:40:04:20
Agent Palmer
Like what? Slacker. What do you you got so much stuff to do. That’s that’s my workaholic. It’s just me battling my internal monologue that calls me a slacker.
00:40:04:26 – 00:40:29:03
Katherine Silva
So that’s. I have a very similar internal monologue like today, for example, I’ve. I’ve been fighting a headache all day, and I took a, a nap for an hour, and I ended up sleeping for two hours because I, I didn’t mean to. And I woke up and it was like, well, my entire afternoon is gone. What did you get done?
00:40:29:07 – 00:40:55:50
Katherine Silva
Nothing. But at the same time, I’m also on this kick of like, knowing how knowing how the marketing of my last book absolutely destroyed my mental health last year. I know that I need to be better about self care, so I am definitely on a check to make sure that I do not do too much too fast.
00:40:55:57 – 00:41:25:45
Katherine Silva
Okay, so it is about making lists. It’s about scheduling things. I have this giant post-it pad of paper on the wall behind me, which is, you know, I’ve got it sectioned out with all the different months of the year to and then divided in half by, like, what am I doing as an author this year? What am I doing as a small press this year so that I’ve got it broken down month by month?
00:41:25:50 – 00:41:31:39
Katherine Silva
And I’m not like trying to kill myself, doing too much time too quick.
00:41:31:44 – 00:41:59:26
Agent Palmer
Okay, so, this is in regards to, making lists. How good are you? And and balance specifically how good are you at, estimating workload because there are times when I’m like, you know what, I’m going to do these six things tomorrow or like over my morning coffee, I’ll be like, I’m going to try and get these six things done today.
00:41:59:31 – 00:42:33:44
Agent Palmer
And like sometimes by lunch, I’ve gotten all six done. And I’m like, this is amazing. And sometimes I it’s 10:00 at night and I’m halfway through the first one because I’m just really bad at estimating sometimes. And I have, you know, no rhyme or reason why these two six item lists are just so different. Because in my head, when I’m making the list, I don’t think this is going to be half the day.
00:42:33:44 – 00:42:41:10
Agent Palmer
And this is going to take weeks. How are you as far as judging that when you’re going month and week?
00:42:41:17 – 00:43:06:05
Katherine Silva
So on a on a grand scale, I’m, you know, when I’m making lists like this one, I, I’m pretty good. Okay. If it’s a, a thing that I have, I have a whole month to do. I’m pretty good. If it’s my Thursday checklist of things to do, which I do have on my phone, I’m so bad at it.
00:43:06:09 – 00:43:27:36
Katherine Silva
There are probably 20 things on that list that I have to do. And and really, what it is, is like some of those things are just things that I haven’t done that need to be done around the house. Sure. And that could happen Thursday. It could happen someday. But if I couldn’t get it done on Thursday, that’d be awesome.
00:43:27:45 – 00:44:07:19
Katherine Silva
If I can check off at least two things on my list for Thursday, I’m happy. And you know what’s on the what’s on the list for things to get done are things like have a cup of coffee and take a shower. So I, I set the bar really, really low, so that it makes me feel better and, and honestly, that that helps just in terms of like if I’m having a really rough day physically, mentally, whatever, I know that that I, I’m not going to get 5 or 6 things done on this list.
00:44:07:24 – 00:44:34:42
Katherine Silva
It’s not going to happen. If I’m having a really great day. Sometimes I’ll get like ten things down on the list. But, but I like to keep it easy for myself. I like to keep it so that it’s it’s like it’s possible to do these things, but it’s not like it’s not going to happen necessarily. And I keep the list and sometimes I change it based on what things have changed.
00:44:34:47 – 00:44:43:26
Katherine Silva
And I’ll check things off on the list. And then the next Thursday how it when I’m over checkmarks that start over. But yeah, that really helps.
00:44:43:30 – 00:45:14:47
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I think I should probably do it on a more regular basis, but like, every once in a while I’ll be like, you know, I think it’s time to consolidate all the lists. And for me, that’s, general, generally speaking, a bunch of notepads, a few digital ones, and like a, like a Google doc where I’m like, all right, time to put them all together and see what I didn’t do for the last three months.
00:45:14:51 – 00:45:37:57
Agent Palmer
And sometimes it’s like, oh, I did this. I just never parked it off, which is wonderful. And the rest of the time it’s like, I don’t know what this means, which, you know, I think happens to all of us list makers where it’s like, I don’t know that. I’m sure that meant something to me at the time.
00:45:38:01 – 00:46:03:20
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I don’t know, I, I wish I could just throw them away. I don’t know if it’s really good to try and consolidate the lists like I do, but I’m, I’m making attempts I. Because because the balance thing is really very much like, right now I’m a consultant. Which is a fancy word for saying some people pay me, but I can’t get a real job.
00:46:03:24 – 00:46:25:55
Agent Palmer
And that’s fine. And I have no problem with that. But one of the things that I’ve done is I also have it also means I have a lot more daylight to do this stuff. And so I very much tried to stop at five. I’m just going to hang out with my partner. She’s got a real job, so I’m going to hang out with her from five on, and I’ll try and start work at nine.
00:46:25:55 – 00:46:53:28
Agent Palmer
I’ll try and pretend I’ve got a 40 hour a week gig. Between what I get paid for and my passion stuff, because I remember what it was like to have a 40 hour and come home and record and edit and write, and it’s like, I, I’m okay doing that again. I think I would actually relish the idea of doing that again.
00:46:53:33 – 00:47:20:10
Agent Palmer
I think it’s underrated how much creative people need something else to fill the time, because all we will do is think about those other things, either the things that aren’t done or the project that’s kind of been stewing that you just haven’t started yet. Whatever it is, like we’re. Generally speaking, all of these things and you’ve said things tonight, we’re like, we I just not along like, yeah, I’m, I see you.
00:47:20:15 – 00:47:47:34
Agent Palmer
I’ve been there I, I’m the whole stopping at five is not really it’s like it, it’s it’s it is real balance. It’s like oh no. Like I don’t have to work 12 hours on a project on a Saturday, like four hours is fine. And then I can have friends and a life and do other things. I’m, I’m making attempts.
00:47:47:39 – 00:48:15:30
Agent Palmer
I, I don’t know how. I can only say my mental health can only be worse than it is right now. I think it’s okay. And I think that that’s I think people missing to I love the idea that you’re, you know, working on self-care and balance because like, marketing’s not easy. If it was easy, anybody could do it.
00:48:15:35 – 00:48:26:30
Agent Palmer
But I think marketing your own thing is maybe the hardest thing you’ll ever do.
00:48:26:35 – 00:48:27:40
Katherine Silva
00:48:27:45 – 00:48:51:49
Agent Palmer
How are you as far as the balance of, like. And I’m going to pull a number out of my hat, but, like, you know, maybe like you’re supposed to promote yourself five times a day. I don’t know anybody who’s comfortable promoting themselves five times a day. So how are you as far as balance in that regard of, like, I, you know, I, I shared the link twice.
00:48:52:01 – 00:48:54:54
Agent Palmer
I don’t want to overdo it. Yeah.
00:48:54:59 – 00:49:26:56
Katherine Silva
I mean, I learned that self-promotion is not about saying like buy my stuff and then sending a link five times a day. It’s it’s really not what it is at all. If anything, I, what I used to try and do was I would post every day on all of my social media platforms, and I had I do still have every single one.
00:49:27:00 – 00:49:28:19
Katherine Silva
Okay, so that.
00:49:28:19 – 00:49:30:01
Agent Palmer
Means that’s a lot of times.
00:49:30:01 – 00:49:30:26
Katherine Silva
Staying on.
00:49:30:28 – 00:49:33:12
Agent Palmer
That like an hour, at least an hour every day.
00:49:33:12 – 00:50:08:54
Katherine Silva
Probably a long time. Okay. Yeah. And you know, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter threads, new sky tock. And I at some point I just pretty much over the last two months realized that I can’t do that or more, especially since I don’t have any projects that I’m openly promoting. You know, I’m not in the middle of I don’t have a book that I’m releasing any time soon.
00:50:08:54 – 00:50:38:43
Katherine Silva
I’m working on something new. Really. All it is, is just making sure that people one know that I’m still alive, is there? And two, talking about the thing that I’m working on so that it sounds at least interesting and people go, oh yeah, that’s the thing you were working on. When it does start to ramp up eventually, so I post, I, I’m trying to pick up my posts on TikTok right now.
00:50:38:48 – 00:51:14:36
Katherine Silva
Because that is a really good platform statement. And as much as I hate the idea of filming myself, and then I think it’s, it’s between like Twitter threads and, and, we start I post those three a little more often than some of the other social media platforms because I, my engagement is better on those. And that’s really it.
00:51:14:41 – 00:51:41:04
Katherine Silva
And the posts there are things like I wrote a really sad scene today or, you know, I’m commenting on somebody else’s thing. Whatever it is, the song is you’re you’re doing something, you’re interacting with other people. That’s all that matters.
00:51:41:08 – 00:52:00:45
Agent Palmer
Talking with Kat about Anthony Bourdain was not only delightful, it has since got me thinking about what other authors or voices exist which are not given their due. The late and great Anthony Bourdain was often pigeonholed into food and travel when he really gave voice to culture and humanity, a scope much more broad than just food and travel.
00:52:00:50 – 00:52:25:29
Agent Palmer
What authors are dismissed because of their genre or topic who deserve more than they get? You can let me know. But I would wager Kat is in a genre with horror, where brilliance is often written off because of the genre. This is why it’s important to get out of your comfort zone. Read and watch some things you wouldn’t normally consider, and see what’s good and brilliant that is beyond your current media library.
00:52:25:33 – 00:52:45:20
Agent Palmer
Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 118. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact my guest, Katherine Silva, and myself in the show notes. There you can find more information about Kat and their work at Katherine Silva, author.com.
00:52:45:35 – 00:53:06:38
Agent Palmer
The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Her email can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:53:06:42 – 00:53:40:44
Agent Palmer
You.
00:53:40:49 – 00:53:43:21
Agent Palmer
All right, Kat, do you have one final question for me?
00:53:43:27 – 00:53:54:07
Katherine Silva
Yes. How long did you work in the food industry? And what was your favorite thing about it?
00:53:54:07 – 00:54:36:20
Agent Palmer
So I worked at a now defunct fast food chain called Arthur Treacher’s, and I was there, throughout high school and college. So I want to say four years. Five years. And, ironically, I stopped working there when the store closed, like, they shut our they shut our franchise down, which was the beginning of the end for the, the brand as a whole.
00:54:36:24 – 00:55:15:08
Agent Palmer
You know, if I’m, I would love to tell you that it was great getting free food. And I would love to tell you that the Hush Puppies were the best hush puppies I’ve ever had. And they were. So that’s not a lie, but I. I have to say, it was the people. It was genuinely, I had the same, assistant manager and an assistant manager who became manager for, like, my entire time when I started, they were both assistant managers, and then one got moved up.
00:55:15:13 – 00:55:25:52
Agent Palmer
And I think it was those people. They were I was a 17 year old, 16, 17 year old punk. They were in their.
00:55:25:57 – 00:55:54:20
Agent Palmer
Around 30 plus or minus four years in any direction. I had, you know, when when you’re, when you’re 17, anybody over 20 years old okay. So they they could have been 36. They could have been 27. I have no idea. But like, just they treated me like an equal. And we hung out around work, but not just at work.
00:55:54:25 – 00:56:26:52
Agent Palmer
And so it’s the it was the people. It was the crew. It really was. And so I, I, I know everybody like, you know, I, I also worked in retail for seven years. So like I, when I go out to eat, when I go out to shop, like I’m like I, I remember what a bad day was like, I’m willing to get I’m, I’m really willing to wait as long as it takes to get my food or for you to ring me up or whatever, like, I’m, I’m, I’m never going to be a problem for anybody in the service retail, food industries.
00:56:26:52 – 00:56:55:21
Agent Palmer
But, I am one of those people that like, I think I got lucky that, like, I was with a cool crew of, people that were just kind of fun to be around, and we could make up games and we could talk about stuff and just whatever. But, you know, not everybody has that experience. There are some people who are like, I hated every moment of it, and I understand that, too.
00:56:55:21 – 00:57:16:23
Agent Palmer
But I just got lucky. But it was just, you know, I enjoyed being on the fryer. I didn’t have to talk to customers. I didn’t have to deal with any of that stuff. It’s, you know, I don’t I, I didn’t mind the, the, the the, the, the scars. I don’t have any more. By the way, they didn’t actually permanently scar me just for a summer or whatever, you know, like that.
00:57:16:38 – 00:57:24:10
Agent Palmer
That dropped a lot of grease on my arm, like, whatever. But that was that was it. It was.
00:57:24:15 – 00:57:55:41
Agent Palmer
I wouldn’t say it was formative, necessarily, despite the fact that it’s changed the way I treat service industry people. But I guess in that way it was formative. But it was just, late nights and sometimes early mornings and. Yeah, you got to do inventory and, you know, you learn all about it. It was probably the first time I ever really saw a business run.
00:57:55:46 – 00:58:27:23
Agent Palmer
And holy crap. Like, it was like, oh, there’s I think it in hindsight, it was the first time I ever realized that the people running things were so far removed from the people doing the things. And in our case, it was our manager was with us and in the trenches every day. But the person who ran the business was like a regional supervisor or whatever.
00:58:27:23 – 00:59:06:08
Agent Palmer
I don’t remember, but like, they make decisions and they’re not. They’re and I think as a lesson in what would later become a theme that I would learn in other places, like that was a very important early lesson to learn. But yeah, I mean, it was really fun just it we closed at ten most of the time during the year, and at 945 you’d drop a little extra fish or chicken in and, I think we’re getting the rush.
00:59:06:09 – 00:59:12:59
Agent Palmer
And then you’d be like, I’m not going to throw this out. But we did close the door, so I’m going to take this home.
00:59:13:04 – 00:59:14:36
Katherine Silva
Yeah.
00:59:14:41 – 00:59:18:36
Agent Palmer
So, you know, little stuff like that. But.
00:59:18:40 – 00:59:19:40
Katherine Silva
Yeah.
00:59:19:45 – 00:59:39:03
Agent Palmer
I, I honestly, it’s one of the few jobs I would trade in my retail experience. I would give that back in a heartbeat. But my Arthur Teresa’s experience, I would keep it wasn’t pretty. It wasn’t sexy. But, I mean, I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t trade that for anything.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).