For episode six of The Palmer Files, guest Carl Landra joins Agent Palmer to discuss decision making, changing careers, an engineering cult, and then Palmer goes on a rant.
Carl and Jason cover the process of changing careers and their respective stories on leaving jobs of eight years on very different terms.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Why Engineering
- Choosing Your Own Path
- Stereotyping Engineers
- Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer
- Changing Careers
- Going Back to School
- Teaching
- The Least Millennial Thing
- Getting Older
- From Lab Reports to Feeling Papers
- Higher Education Loopholes in Curriculum
- Money and Math
- Let your Hobbies lead the way
- What we do in our free time
- Health Care
- Helping People
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
The Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer
You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:05 – 00:00:43:38
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. A look at Adult Swim’s Primal, a book review of Wonder Boys, and I’m still working to mend Tristan’s broken heart. This is the Palmer Files episode six with guest Carl Landra, where we talk about changing careers and engineering cult. And then I go on my first real rant of this entire podcast. Let’s do the show.
00:00:43:43 – 00:01:06:12
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer, and on this episode is someone who recently made a career change on his own terms. Carl Landra change isn’t something that comes easy to us as human beings, but it happens. And how we deal with that change and what kind of control we have over it, determines our situations.
00:01:06:17 – 00:01:26:37
Agent Palmer
For example, both Carl and I changed jobs after being in them for eight years, and you’ll hear about our different circumstances and how we dealt with those changes. But changes aren’t just for careers. Changes happen all the time. For example, my good friend Bill Sweeney, the first guest on this podcast, has just relaunched his show The Wicked Theory Podcast.
00:01:26:42 – 00:01:53:35
Agent Palmer
It’s now more of a comedic tete a tete. He has lighthearted conversations with his guests and plays games with them from the Wicked Theory classic Lightning Round to new games like word, eulogy and What’s the Scenario? Plus new bits that are sure to become classics or forgotten. Wicked theory is now releasing every two weeks on the off week of this very show, so every other week you can alternate between The Palmer Files and the Wicked Theory podcast, and I hope you do.
00:01:53:40 – 00:02:13:56
Agent Palmer
In fact, during this episode, I mentioned that the Wicked Theory podcast was on hiatus. It was when we recorded, but now it isn’t. That’s a change. And that was a baked in ad read for the Wicked Theory podcast. That was a change. Maybe there’ll be ads that aren’t just trade. That would be a nice change. But this episode isn’t just about change.
00:02:13:57 – 00:02:37:56
Agent Palmer
It’s also about decision making, engineering, job searching, math, science, helping others, teaching, and what we want to be when we grow up. Before we get into the episode proper, you can hear Carl on his show The Fourth Line Podcast, The Greatest Hockey Podcast in All the Land, and follow them on Twitter at Fourth Line Podcast. That’s at the number four line podcast.
00:02:38:09 – 00:03:00:47
Agent Palmer
You can also tweet this show at The Palmer Files, me at Agent Palmer, and of course, all of these links and those mentioned in the show will be in the show notes. So without further ado, let’s drop the puck and start the conversation.
00:03:00:52 – 00:03:30:47
Agent Palmer
Carl, you more recently than not, decided to change careers. I’m extremely interested in the fact that you got to do this on your terms, because back in February of this year, I was let go of my job of eight years, and I have for the last eight months, been searching for my next career. So it hasn’t really been on my terms.
00:03:30:52 – 00:03:49:18
Agent Palmer
And I’m fascinated by the idea that you had a career and decided to make a change on your own terms. So I mean, first and foremost, let’s start with what the first career was, and we’ll go from there.
00:03:49:23 – 00:03:50:53
Carl Landra
Yeah, let’s do it.
00:03:50:58 – 00:03:53:50
Agent Palmer
So you were an engineer?
00:03:53:54 – 00:03:58:28
Carl Landra
I was an engineer for what amounted to nine years.
00:03:58:33 – 00:04:03:54
Agent Palmer
And that’s that’s obviously. Obviously you went to school for that. You were trained in that. That’s.
00:04:03:59 – 00:04:21:18
Carl Landra
Yeah, I went I went to University of Calgary, got an engineering degree, spent four years doing that works eight years before I changed, changed my mind. And we can get into to that. Well, we’ll get into all that, but. Yeah. Yeah. Eight years full time.
00:04:21:20 – 00:04:29:09
Agent Palmer
Why engineering? Like, what was the like? Why was that first like. I mean, when you were a kid, did you always want to be an engineer? Was it?
00:04:29:16 – 00:04:51:41
Carl Landra
When I was a kid, I always wanted to be something in science. Like I was thinking back recently to when I was in probably the third grade, fourth grade and thinking about I said that I wanted to be a DNA scientist, and that was what I literally said. And I think 95% of it was just because, you know, what the acronym stood for is a big word.
00:04:51:41 – 00:04:56:05
Carl Landra
And I knew what it was, and I was just bragging about a word I knew.
00:04:56:09 – 00:05:17:51
Agent Palmer
I can, with the exception that I didn’t have the grades to go to college or university. For this, I always said I wanted to be an aerospace engineer because it sounds cool, right? I and then I, you know, I got to a certain point and I was never going to be good enough in science or math to actually become an aerospace engineer, but I’m with you.
00:05:17:53 – 00:05:22:52
Agent Palmer
Like, there are those things when you’re younger. That just sounds so cool.
00:05:22:57 – 00:05:41:43
Carl Landra
Yeah, and that was mine. And so I had that realm of it. But a big, big part of it was that, I would say, and I don’t know how much, because it wasn’t there was never just a moment that I like, actually sat down and thought, do I want to be an engineer? What do I want to be?
00:05:41:55 – 00:06:05:33
Carl Landra
And it was just kind of something that was in my head. And I know my mom. She told me she was like, since you were five years old, I knew you were going to be an engineer. My dad was an engineer, and actually every single member of my family started their university career in engineering. So my mom and sister both were in it left, and then me and my dad finished.
00:06:05:38 – 00:06:26:45
Carl Landra
And so part of it was just like looking back. I think that was just part of like, that was what I was going to be. I never really thought about it. I never, in all honesty, never really, you know, had all that much thought as a kid of what it meant to be an engineer. Obviously, as I got closer to university, I was like, yeah, this is a cool thing.
00:06:26:45 – 00:06:46:13
Carl Landra
Designing things, building things, being a part of that was something that I was very into to be able to, like, take the stuff that I loved about math and science, which is which were my like, educational loves and use that on the other side was a a big deal and something that I was really excited to do.
00:06:46:18 – 00:07:15:06
Agent Palmer
So I probably would have been your best friend in like grade 4 or 5, six and seven, maybe even eight, right? And then I had an English teacher in ninth grade or grade nine, and everything changed on one English teacher. And like, I stopped being the math science centric guy and started being the basically liberal arts guy that I became.
00:07:15:11 – 00:07:43:44
Agent Palmer
And it all hinged on this one teacher. I don’t know, maybe I would have stuck it out with math and science otherwise, but like, did you have any like, I mean, I know other people that were like math science people and then something happened and they switched. But like, you stuck through it, like, obviously. Was there ever any temptation to, I don’t know, you know, move away from math and science?
00:07:43:48 – 00:08:03:25
Carl Landra
Not really. There was like there was a brief time in high school that I was wanting to take. I was I was debating like, maybe I become a lawyer. Like, that could be a cool thing. And so I took legal studies as an elective in high school, and it was the most boring class I have ever taken in my entire life.
00:08:03:30 – 00:08:23:33
Carl Landra
And I’m like, I don’t want to have to sit here and like, go through case law and all this stuff. I’m like, this is terrible. This is the worst thing I could have ever imagined. And so that it was that that idea was done. And actually, I did think, another one that came across my head at the time was being a teacher.
00:08:23:38 – 00:08:33:55
Carl Landra
And I thought to myself, I was not at the point in time that, I was mature enough to be able to handle, to have the patience for for teaching.
00:08:34:08 – 00:08:37:38
Agent Palmer
Spoiler alert. That’s that’s what you are now, right? Yeah.
00:08:37:47 – 00:08:40:04
Carl Landra
Like, irony is a real thing.
00:08:40:09 – 00:09:05:41
Agent Palmer
I want I want to talk to you about engineering in college, but I want to give you the only thing I know. Or my parents both went to Lehigh University. That’s where they met. And at the time, Lehigh were the engineers. They were the Lehigh engineers. They’ve since rebranded to the Lehigh Mountain Hawks, but they were the Lehigh engineers.
00:09:05:54 – 00:09:10:25
Agent Palmer
Both of my parents went there, neither as engineering majors.
00:09:10:34 – 00:09:11:22
Carl Landra
Where.
00:09:11:26 – 00:09:12:05
Agent Palmer
It’s.
00:09:12:10 – 00:09:15:43
Carl Landra
Did they did they go there as mountain hockey majors? Is that what they went? Does.
00:09:15:44 – 00:09:37:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No. The, philosophy, I mean, listen, I in, in, in becoming a liberal arts major, I really just followed the family. I just, I went to a smaller school, but all I knew about engineers were that they were smart in math. This is literally all I knew about engineers. Right.
00:09:37:40 – 00:09:45:01
Carl Landra
Like, well, and that that’s the, like the stereotype. Right? Like you say, yeah, someone finds out you’re injured and oh, you must be good at math.
00:09:45:06 – 00:10:10:35
Agent Palmer
Like, it’s funny because I know there’s first of all, I know there’s also science to it. And I also know that there’s design and art to it as well. But in my head back then, that was architecture, which is not engineering by any stretch. Yeah. So I guess I’d like to jump ahead real quick. You are an engineer.
00:10:10:40 – 00:10:17:01
Agent Palmer
We talked about a couple of them, but like, what are like the biggest misconceptions of engineering?
00:10:17:06 – 00:10:37:04
Carl Landra
I would, I would say at least what I did because I, I also did like a weird, not a weird, a rarely there weren’t a lot of people who did what I do. And so I actually worked at a software company. I was a chemical engineer working at a software company, and we made the software that other engineers used to design things.
00:10:37:09 – 00:10:37:49
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:10:37:54 – 00:10:55:39
Carl Landra
And so in doing that, I would say I was the only person that I went to school with who actually used the stuff we learned at school, because most of them would design something, use our software, and design it to the specs that they needed because I was taking it down to like the principles, the bare bones of like, here’s how it works.
00:10:55:39 – 00:11:00:16
Carl Landra
I was I was writing the equations that you would do for everything else.
00:11:00:21 – 00:11:07:07
Agent Palmer
Are we talking about like, good Will hunting equations? Like, you know, half a blackboard equations.
00:11:07:07 – 00:11:27:42
Carl Landra
Some, some of them were were big. Yeah. Because the so I, I had multiple hats that I would wear throughout my time there, but the most of it and the stuff that I’m the proudest of, what I did there was in thermodynamics. And so those had some pretty big equations that luckily someone else would usually derive for me.
00:11:27:46 – 00:11:37:04
Carl Landra
I would just re repurpose an equation that someone else had already research studied, written many papers about, named it after themselves, and I would use that.
00:11:37:09 – 00:11:47:22
Agent Palmer
All right. So real quick in the simplest terms, what is there no, if I can say it, what is thermodynamics.
00:11:47:37 – 00:12:10:27
Carl Landra
So the way that I used it, thermodynamics is explaining how chemicals would interact with each other and what you would get out of it. So if I have, you know, a bunch of methane, water, carbon dioxide, at a certain temperature and pressure, what am I going to get? What’s its density going to be like? How much is going to be a liquid?
00:12:10:27 – 00:12:30:41
Carl Landra
How much is going to be a gas? What are its other properties? What’s his viscosity going to be for both of those phases. And so that was my job. A lot of it was just data fitting. A lot of it was I, you know, once those big equations were implemented in the software, it was a lot of data fitting and making sure that you matched research data.
00:12:30:46 – 00:12:51:38
Agent Palmer
All right. So going back into your education in your university years, are you chemical engineering straight from the get go or are you engineering. And I’m not sure which field of study I’m within the engineering. You’re going to be.
00:12:51:43 – 00:13:15:57
Carl Landra
I, I started with the full intentions of chemical engineering. I did have a brief time where I was like, maybe I want to be a mechanical engineer, but I know I stop that, which is interesting because most a lot of the chemical or mechanical engineers I know, are actually doing the stuff that we did as chemical engineers, at least here in, Calgary and in Alberta.
00:13:16:02 – 00:13:32:16
Carl Landra
And so really, in the end, it I could have ended up in the same places. I guess I could have ended up in there places. I’m not sure I would have taken my same path, but, in the end, it it’s all about kind of where you end up, where you work, the experience you get and things like that.
00:13:32:16 – 00:13:38:29
Carl Landra
But here in, in Alberta, it’s a lot of, of similar work done by both of those.
00:13:38:34 – 00:13:58:57
Agent Palmer
So you ended up with a software job, but like what other I don’t know. Are there any like prototypical chemical engineering jobs where, you can, you know, use your education in a practical manner? Or is it, you know, you can do almost anything?
00:13:59:02 – 00:14:22:28
Carl Landra
So I did software here in Alberta. Most people end up in the oil and gas industry. And so you’re working at either, you know, piping. So maybe pipeline design, maybe you’re working on refineries, maybe you’re whether it be building new ones or upgrading old ones to run more efficiently, more environmentally friendly. Those are kind of your stereotypical ways that you’re ending up.
00:14:22:28 – 00:14:35:24
Carl Landra
And, you know, you can from there, you you branch on all kinds of things, right? Safety, you know, the business side of it, kind of depending on where you go, you start small and you end up all over the place. So.
00:14:35:29 – 00:14:45:32
Agent Palmer
All right, well, we’re still talking about engineering because I did read this in an article recently. What is the ritual of the calling of an engineer?
00:14:45:36 – 00:15:08:55
Carl Landra
So it is one of the weirdest things you could ever and have the honor to be a part of. It is the most cultish, non cult based thing I have ever, ever been a part of. And actually, and this is what makes it cultish, I’m actually not allowed to talk about it. Okay. I mean I’m going to. All right.
00:15:09:06 – 00:15:22:22
Carl Landra
But I’m part of it is like, hey, what happens in here? Like they shut the big doors in the conference room that it’s in, like they booked like the big convention center in Calgary, and they, like, shut the doors and they’re like, all right, cameras away.
00:15:22:26 – 00:15:32:02
Agent Palmer
And this is for, the twofold one. Does it matter what kind of an engineer you are? And two, does it happen outside of your country?
00:15:32:07 – 00:16:03:52
Carl Landra
So this is a Canadian thing. Okay. And actually, they called in the the efforts of Rudyard Kipling to write the actual script that’s used for it. So they’re like, you know what? We need some big guns. He’s going to come in and write it. So, so he wrote, unfortunately, it’s nothing like The Jungle Book. I wish it was, but essentially it’s like you take an oath to hold yourself to the standard of an engineer.
00:16:03:57 – 00:16:22:08
Carl Landra
And so, you know, as part of this, you, they say a bunch of things, you repeat it back, but you’re doing this all by a holding a chain that’s the size of the chain. That would be like on a yacht’s anchor. Not even a cruise ship. Like it is huge.
00:16:22:08 – 00:16:24:49
Agent Palmer
Like the actual chain. Not just one link.
00:16:24:54 – 00:16:51:42
Carl Landra
No, it is because the through this convention center hallway, they have run this chain. And so it is you are all holding this same chain. And I might be misremembering the exact size. It it was quite beefy. It was at least like, you know, I would say four inch diameter links okay. On there. So, you’re holding it on one hand and, and saying your thing on the other with, and it goes on.
00:16:51:47 – 00:17:05:24
Carl Landra
So then you get your iron ring. This is all part of your iron ring ceremony, and the iron ring goes on the pinkie of your writing hand. And it’s to help you remember this oath that you’ve taken.
00:17:05:29 – 00:17:25:39
Agent Palmer
So in the article, it came up because this is I could be misremembering some of the article, but the oath and the way it came about was because there was a bridge that they were building out east between maybe Quebec and Newfoundland or.
00:17:25:39 – 00:17:32:40
Carl Landra
Yeah, it would have been New Brunswick, I think is where. Okay. Yeah. And yeah, it was, it was the Quebec, the Quebec bridge.
00:17:32:45 – 00:18:01:35
Agent Palmer
Okay. So and and so from down here in the States, it’s a very nationalistic view of engineering. Like we need we need to shape up. We’re we’re going to make a, Hippocratic oath of sorts for our engineers because we want to hold them on a, a similar level to, uphold certain standards, just as we would want in the medical profession.
00:18:01:40 – 00:18:21:55
Carl Landra
Yeah. Well, and actually, though the engineering system in Canada, in the States are actually quite different from the schooling side of it, because in Canada, all engineering schools and I think there’s again, we’re much smaller. I want to say there’s 10 or 11 schools that offer engineering degrees. I could be wrong on that number. Don’t quote me.
00:18:21:59 – 00:18:40:51
Carl Landra
But they’re all like priest certified. So if you want an engineering program at your school, you need to like show that you meet the standards of what is there, which means when we finish, we’re like, we’re we’re ready. And there’s, you know, you have to do work and you have to do those things to get like a professional designation.
00:18:40:56 – 00:18:58:32
Carl Landra
Yeah. But from that side, education wise, you’re ready. In the states, schools, don’t require they don’t require that. And you have to take, like a knowledge exam afterwards to become certified. And so from that side, that’s a little bit different.
00:18:58:37 – 00:19:10:20
Agent Palmer
It sounds like when you’re done, you, from north of the border are eminently more qualified to start work, after graduation than the rest of us.
00:19:10:25 – 00:19:31:37
Carl Landra
No, I don’t I don’t think that that’s the case. I think depending on, I think it’s more consistent. So if you have an engineering degree, you are ready. Whereas like, I think the the way that that would work is, you know, if you went, I don’t know, I won’t disparage any particular school,
00:19:31:42 – 00:19:37:04
Agent Palmer
But do a school down here, there’s a chance that is to take that additional test.
00:19:37:15 – 00:20:01:01
Carl Landra
You you would have to take that additional test no matter what school you went to. So you go to MIT, you’re taking that test. If you go to a school, you’re that’s qualified. That’s good, that’s smart. You kind of crush it, right? It’s not an issue. You’re still going to study for it. Same thing. We do have to take an ethics exam after we finish our university as well.
00:20:01:06 – 00:20:30:07
Carl Landra
Again, I take it I studied, I passed it, I’m ethical. Good way to go. But so that’s that’s kind of the difference is that, every engineering school in Canada is kind of similar, okay, that they’re kind of at that same place. So it makes sense that there’s a more unified every every engineer, if you see a, pinky ring on a just a plain steel pinky ring on almost anyone in Canada, the question is, are you an engineer or.
00:20:30:12 – 00:20:41:29
Agent Palmer
Okay. And, I mean, we can talk about it. You’re you’re not an engineer anymore. So did you have to give it back?
00:20:41:34 – 00:20:54:53
Carl Landra
So that’s, that’s the thing that I have been getting, some email correspondence with the Professional Designation Association. And there are some things that you do have to send back. You are not supposed to wear the ring.
00:20:54:57 – 00:20:55:36
Agent Palmer
Okay?
00:20:55:41 – 00:21:19:24
Carl Landra
If you’re not practicing as an engineer, which, according to them, apparently, apparently, they still wanted my money for a professional thing. And I’m like, look, you’re not getting it. Stop asking for my money. But no. The ring. The thing is, the ring cost 20 bucks. Like, it’s an actual like, it’s the most basic steel ring you can find.
00:21:19:28 – 00:21:33:34
Carl Landra
But no, I do still have it. I don’t wear it. Actually, and I’m not sure how much, but my. What? My wife has been wearing this, but not on her pinky. Okay. We don’t have the same size hands. All right.
00:21:33:39 – 00:21:39:28
Agent Palmer
So nobody’s going to mistake her for an engineer because she’s not wearing it on the pinky. That’s where the engineers wear it.
00:21:39:35 – 00:21:41:45
Carl Landra
That’s where the engineers wear it. Okay.
00:21:41:50 – 00:22:16:08
Agent Palmer
So, I mean, we’ve talked about it a little bit. You’re a teacher now, and I know from following you on Twitter as I do, you kind of made, like an announcement on social media at one point that you were considering changing careers. I remember seeing you tweet for it, something about it, and then all of a sudden, I don’t know, maybe I just don’t pay that much attention, but I wasn’t paying attention.
00:22:16:09 – 00:22:19:16
Agent Palmer
And all of a sudden, Karl’s a teacher.
00:22:19:16 – 00:22:43:45
Carl Landra
Now all of a sudden, there it is. Yeah, I mean, I don’t the those that live with me day to day. Absolutely. Would know. It is a weird thing to like. I don’t know, I could have been more public and and talk about it. I also was at the same time moving into a public profession, trying to, do less, online.
00:22:43:45 – 00:22:55:41
Carl Landra
So I don’t, I don’t talk about, you know, I have I privatized the old Twitter profile. Not that there’s anything on there I’m ashamed of, but it’s just it’s just one of those things, so.
00:22:55:46 – 00:23:23:50
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s, I know on my mother’s side, we’re a family of teachers, and I know that my aunt, for example, who a retired. She’s going to listen to this. I’m going to get this wrong. I think she’s a retired English professor. I know she doesn’t really have those, social media things. And obviously, I understand why you want the distance.
00:23:23:54 – 00:23:48:55
Agent Palmer
But where where does the idea come from to just, change professions? And obviously it’s not just as simple as. All right, well, now I’m going to find a job. As a teacher, you need to be, I accredited in a different way. Yeah. So, like, I guess first, what’s the thought process of I’m going to shift everything up?
00:23:49:00 – 00:24:04:50
Carl Landra
Yeah. So as, as I mentioned, eight years working and eight years I did a summer job at this company that I was that worked eight years still at that same company, which is like the least millennial thing to do ever.
00:24:04:54 – 00:24:26:53
Agent Palmer
I well, I mean, yeah, because I and I, I’m now in this boat of trying to figure out what’s next. And I had spent eight years at a great company. And in my experience, because I’ve, I’ve done a lot of networking and meeting with people and trying to figure out what my next step is, and everybody goes, you’ve only had the one professional job.
00:24:26:58 – 00:24:42:47
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Well, I mean, okay, I was in retail for seven years before I’ve had two jobs in 15 years, retail for seven. My last job for eight, like is I’m with you one of the least millennial things possible.
00:24:42:51 – 00:24:47:10
Carl Landra
Yeah. Which is, you know, I, I knew that I was fine with it.
00:24:47:15 – 00:25:11:00
Agent Palmer
I, I enjoyed being in one place, like, I guess like I look around, I know people jump from ship to ship and, I’ve never been, grass is always greener scenario. So, like, I don’t really know if I want to jump in. I don’t like the idea of starting over every so often, but I mean, eight years.
00:25:11:05 – 00:25:33:09
Agent Palmer
One of the things, I mean, I, I got let go because company was restructuring. They got new leadership. And that’s just one of the things that happens. But eight years I was comfortable when I was let go. I mean, you’re making this decision and it’s eight years. You must have been, like, comfortable with where you were.
00:25:33:14 – 00:25:34:33
Carl Landra
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:25:34:38 – 00:25:43:08
Agent Palmer
But, was there a part of you that where it was unfulfilling and that’s where you’re looking for something a little bit more or.
00:25:43:13 – 00:26:04:49
Carl Landra
Yeah, there was there were some changes that had started to happen at my work. The biggest one, that the person who got me connected with the company, one of the founders, him and I, worked very closely. We were, two of at the at the initial time, two of three people who worked in our group division. It was such a small company.
00:26:04:49 – 00:26:33:39
Carl Landra
I was the 11th employee, when I started, when I left, they grow. They did? Yeah. When I, when I left, there was probably, I mean, in, in Calgary, 30, 40 people. Wow. So definitely grew and actually by the time I left, it got purchased. And so now part of a much bigger company. And so, so he had started to transition away, he was moving into a different thing.
00:26:33:39 – 00:26:57:21
Carl Landra
And so I, I did not, you know, I missed working with him. There was something that brought me a lot of, you know, when when a terrible day happened working with him or something, that that made it better. And actually, you know, before he fully transitioned into his new role out in a, you know, a different capacity, he actually unexpectedly passed away, which was a big part of it.
00:26:57:21 – 00:27:17:16
Carl Landra
He was, you know, my favorite professor, guy I worked with at the company. And, and I’ll be, you know, I will never, not be grateful for what he did in my life and in in the lives of those around us. So, changes. And so I start looking for a different job. Like, you know what? I’ve never actually done this before.
00:27:17:21 – 00:27:39:39
Carl Landra
Let’s get a new job right. And then I decided to do that. And again, I work in the oil and gas industry. I do this at. Like, when oil tanked, I decided to start looking for a new job. No, not the best of times. And so literally, like I started in October and hiring freezes and cuts started in November.
00:27:39:44 – 00:27:48:33
Carl Landra
And so I’m, I’m now thankful. I’m like, okay, you know, I didn’t because, you know, you’re the first one last went into that company. First one out, right?
00:27:48:33 – 00:27:50:16
Agent Palmer
Yeah, absolutely.
00:27:50:20 – 00:28:14:06
Carl Landra
So, grateful that I’m here. I still have my very stable. Good job. But I still wanted something else. And so I was looking, and I was like, all right, what can I use? Like, sure. Not everyone’s like, I need a chemical engineer, but almost every company needs someone to do some sort of tech. Something. And working at a software company, I’ve done a lot of that right.
00:28:14:06 – 00:28:32:31
Carl Landra
I can code, I’ve done databases, I’ve done all of these different things as part of it. And so I’m like, all right, let’s try to sell myself to some of these other things. And so I’d be looking at I’m like, oh, this. That’s cool. This like nonprofit needs someone to do database work. And so I had apply to it.
00:28:32:36 – 00:28:53:10
Carl Landra
And then I at the same time I’d apply it to some engineering job, and I’d want the nonprofit job more than the engineering job. It could be like, oh, man, I really hope they call me back. And I started thinking, I’m like, oh, if I keep wanting these jobs that are not in the field, I work in, why am I staying over here?
00:28:53:15 – 00:28:54:45
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:28:54:50 – 00:29:21:07
Carl Landra
So I stopped applying for everything and started thinking about what I wanted to be when I grew up. And I’ve worked with kids for shoes the entire time. Probably 910 years. I’d worked with kids, mostly high school age volunteer side. So I’ve been doing that. I still love math, science, and so often you hear people saying, you know, I hate math.
00:29:21:07 – 00:29:39:19
Carl Landra
I’m not good at math. You know, science. I just don’t I’m not good at it, but, like, you don’t I mean, there are some people who are like, I’m not a good reader. I’m not a strong reader. I’m not a fast reader. But like, as we get grown up, for some reason, we get this mentality in our head of, like, I’m not good.
00:29:39:19 – 00:29:44:14
Carl Landra
I can’t do it right in some sorts of ways, right?
00:29:44:19 – 00:30:13:34
Agent Palmer
We’re stubborn. When we get older, I think we get more stubborn. So like the things where you’re willing to take, I guess when you’re younger, you’re willing to take a teacher’s word for it, right? Like, oh, I’ll try that. Absolutely. I’ll try that. But once you get out of college and then you get out of your cocky, late 20s and you’re in your 30s, you’re like, no, I’m, I’m pretty much I’m the rock.
00:30:13:34 – 00:30:19:45
Agent Palmer
I’m going to be. There’s no more clay to be molded. Right? I am what I am, right.
00:30:19:50 – 00:30:43:29
Carl Landra
Well, well, one easy way to do that is to fix that is to go back in and change careers in your 30s. So, but and so and so just having that, having worked with kids, knowing what I know from my own career, being able to just bring a different lens, I was really excited to be able to work with kids, and to be able to just have that positive impact.
00:30:43:34 – 00:31:08:25
Carl Landra
It was very like, initially just the most, like, altruistic of desires. Right? I was like, oh, I just like, I want to be able to impact people. And as I’ve gone through, that’s definitely still the case. Being able to have that impact, being able to be there for kids, support them in their learning, in their life, to be able to help them become the people that they need to be to grow up.
00:31:08:25 – 00:31:26:48
Carl Landra
And so, that’s how I ended up there. And so and then I started talking to other people, you know, friends, friends who are teachers already, some that work in admin, some that, you know, have all these different things my engineering friends, family and finding out, you know, how how stupid of an idea is this?
00:31:26:52 – 00:31:44:43
Carl Landra
And no one told me. No, I had one person who told me it was. I was it was a bad idea. And she later said she was wrong. So, Which is great. So, lo and behold, and like you said, I had to go back to school. So two years.
00:31:44:48 – 00:31:54:53
Agent Palmer
And you’re. Are you still at the engineering? You’re still doing engineering during the day or are you all right? I’m going to go back to school full time for this.
00:31:54:57 – 00:32:27:45
Carl Landra
So one thing that works great is that my work was literally across the street from the University. And so I told them I kind of I moved into a different role that I thought could be helpful for them if I could stay on part time. Okay. And so I said, hey, what if what if I did what if I had stayed on part time and, you kept paying me and I kept working here, so I quit my job, did 20 hours a week, part time.
00:32:27:50 – 00:32:52:01
Carl Landra
Well, well, going to school, full time. And the only time that didn’t work was when I would do my practicals. Okay. When. And so for the first, nine, ten months, I did both still, and that was great. I did like training videos and documentation and things like that for them. Which is great.
00:32:52:01 – 00:33:02:33
Carl Landra
I took actually what let me do that was the fact that I was the only person who knew how to work a microphone. This this podcasting gig. It turns out it’s super helpful sometimes.
00:33:02:38 – 00:33:37:02
Agent Palmer
So what I mean, before you get going any further, like, what’s it like going back to school because you’ve been out, at least you’ve been at a university for, you know, however a decade almost, you’re going back, I’m not really necessarily concerned with, like, you know, the age difference because obviously at a certain point, like, everybody’s in a different spot when they’re going to higher education, some people take more time off, some people go in the military, but like, what’s it like to get your head?
00:33:37:02 – 00:33:56:35
Agent Palmer
Or is it even hard to get your head around? All right, I’ve got to study again. You know, and I’ve got homework again for the first time. What’s is that? Is it an easy transition? Is it? You know, just like, you know, riding a bike, like. Oh, I know what this is like.
00:33:56:40 – 00:34:21:43
Carl Landra
No. And to go from, a degree, I’d never done like, a non I done engineering. It is very different to write like, paper. I didn’t write papers. I would write lab reports. I would write a, I wrote reports, which is what engineers do. They’re not writing papers. I mean, like and not that style.
00:34:21:45 – 00:34:31:55
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You’re, you’re writing, you’re giving me the facts. You’re not giving me. You’re not explaining why necessarily, and you’re not defending a position or an argument.
00:34:32:05 – 00:34:52:34
Carl Landra
Right. The the biggest transition was like I got in there and they were like, yeah, I need to know how you feel in this. And I’m like, yeah, that’s not relevant. Like, I’m not my my feelings on the matter do not like, you know, you make me I read research paper and then I write a reflection on it.
00:34:52:34 – 00:35:03:59
Carl Landra
And that reflection is, you know, it’s research my feelings on it are fairly irrelevant. And so that was that was a change for sure.
00:35:04:04 – 00:35:24:40
Agent Palmer
Did you? I mean, I guess going back to your first time, your first stint in college, you didn’t have any, or university. I mean, I guess whatever, whatever you want to call it, but, you didn’t have any, like, electives for, like, those, you know, liberal arts type things or. And it just been so long, and it was a rare thing.
00:35:24:45 – 00:35:38:42
Carl Landra
Yeah. And it was and I actually I found loopholes around some of that, which they closed as soon as I used it. Because I think we had to take three, I believe I took anthropology, cultural anthropology.
00:35:38:46 – 00:35:39:46
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:35:39:51 – 00:35:42:17
Carl Landra
And I don’t remember it was world or Canadian history.
00:35:42:17 – 00:35:43:36
Agent Palmer
And this is the first time around.
00:35:43:41 – 00:35:57:56
Carl Landra
This is the first time around. Okay. The second time around, you get zero electives, okay? It’s like you’ve done all those electives because it’s only two years. You have to have a degree first to do the two year version. And so like you’re just doing the education side of it.
00:35:58:01 – 00:36:00:43
Agent Palmer
All right. And what was the third in your loophole.
00:36:00:43 – 00:36:20:29
Carl Landra
The third one was the loophole. So in the engineering program you have to take an economics class. Now, there was economics for engineers, but then there was an economics for chemical engineers class, which we had to take. So we didn’t take the economics for engineers. So a lot of people did take economics. They would take econ 201.
00:36:20:37 – 00:36:21:13
Carl Landra
Right?
00:36:21:18 – 00:36:22:14
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:36:22:19 – 00:36:44:39
Carl Landra
I figured out that I was allowed to take econ for engineers and have it count as an elective, because it was in the economics faculty. Wow. So the mandatory courses for engineers, I actually used that. And it was almost the identical course that was for chemical engineers. So I took it twice. Nice. Crushed it the second time.
00:36:44:44 – 00:36:54:45
Carl Landra
And they stopped allowing that as soon as I don’t know if they like, never realized that that was the thing I was allowed to do. But two of us did it, and then they stopped it.
00:36:54:50 – 00:37:13:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I can tell you that. I have a four year degree in communications. I was in the second class of four year degrees that went through that college, and I took one trigonometry class.
00:37:14:01 – 00:37:16:16
Carl Landra
Like as a as your choice elective or.
00:37:16:21 – 00:37:44:43
Agent Palmer
No, no, I, I, I took one trigonometry class as my math during the four years I took one biology course and then as like a math science elective somehow I got away with, environmental studies. And those were the three math science classes I took over my four years.
00:37:44:48 – 00:37:47:46
Carl Landra
Well, there, you know, you you also managed to pull that. Yeah.
00:37:47:46 – 00:37:50:20
Agent Palmer
So I went the opposite of you.
00:37:50:33 – 00:37:51:34
Carl Landra
Yeah, exactly.
00:37:51:43 – 00:38:22:05
Agent Palmer
So you’re in this two year program. You’re getting back into the swing. You’re writing about your own, like how you feel about things. During this program, do you have an idea of where you want to end up on, on a teaching level, like, you know, early elementary, you know, middle school, high school. Do you do you have any, I don’t know, destination for that at this point.
00:38:22:10 – 00:38:41:14
Carl Landra
So when I originally started out, my thought was high school, because that’s what I’d mostly work with. And then I ended up taking, And because I had worked in high school, I was like, you know what I’ll do? I’ll put myself in the elementary stream so I can give myself that diverse background. Right? Sure.
00:38:41:14 – 00:38:42:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:38:42:35 – 00:39:06:00
Carl Landra
And, it turns out it’s way easier to get a job as a male elementary school teacher. So that’s one one reason why. But I really enjoyed it. I didn’t I did not think that I would want to be an elementary school teacher, but it’s been fantastic. And so, again, I’m not sure how I would, you know, I, I now know because I did a practicum in there.
00:39:06:05 – 00:39:22:54
Carl Landra
I now know I could do grade two. When I started, I was like, oh boy, this is not going to be good. But it was good, I enjoyed it. I love the kids. And so right now I’m, I’m a grade three for teacher and teaching both of those. And, and it’s fantastic.
00:39:22:59 – 00:39:48:22
Agent Palmer
Is there anything that you would tell yourself, your past self, I guess. Would you, you know, hey, you should go into teaching a little bit earlier or, you know, anything where, like, things might have been better if I did this sooner.
00:39:48:27 – 00:39:56:09
Carl Landra
You know, I don’t know if I would have changed anything because it it all led me to here, right?
00:39:56:09 – 00:39:56:35
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:39:56:40 – 00:40:24:09
Carl Landra
So who knows? But I think the biggest, like, life lesson that I’ve learned through these last, like, four years of, like this process is I was very, just a very anxious person about a lot of things. And one of those was money. I was always worried and I was just, you know, like I said, you know, my wife works, I work, we both had full time jobs.
00:40:24:09 – 00:40:44:43
Carl Landra
Money was never like an issue. I’m not I’m not saying we were, you know, well off by any means, but it wasn’t anything that I needed to worry about. Sure. And I wish that I had that, you know, I learned it eventually, but. But worry less about those things. Take some chances, have some fun. I just wish that I’d.
00:40:44:46 – 00:41:10:45
Carl Landra
I kind of learned earlier that that money, you know, didn’t have to be something I had to worry about. It’s obviously, you know, you can’t just make terrible decisions, but I would I would always make the safest and smartest financial decision and put, potentially. And I don’t know what, what life could have been, but doing things because they’re fun doing things because they bring you joy.
00:41:10:45 – 00:41:21:58
Carl Landra
Doing things because they’re interesting. A lot of that I put off because I was like, you know what? I need to do the smartest thing for me. I need to make sure that I’m secure.
00:41:22:03 – 00:41:37:13
Agent Palmer
So then I interject and I go, how much of that is the engineer in you for doing the, you know, for taking the safe route almost, instead of, you know, have a little bit of fun? No, you put that away, you save that.
00:41:37:25 – 00:42:02:01
Carl Landra
Absolutely. It was it’s a the the most engineer of reasons for me to do something. I mean, I’m, I’m a teacher now, but the engineer side of me is still there. But all of those things are still there. So, like, I’m, I’m still, I’m still a math nerd. That hurts. Now, I just, like, apply it to sports more so instead of of other things.
00:42:02:05 – 00:42:31:25
Agent Palmer
So I’m going to turn this into a bit of, like self-help. I still have no idea what I want to be. Did I mean, am I supposed to be or would you suggest just. I look around at the other things I’m doing and enjoy and see what professional ism exists within that, or.
00:42:31:29 – 00:42:39:57
Carl Landra
Yeah. So I’m going to preface it, and it just has a preface that doesn’t even need a preface. I’m not an expert.
00:42:40:02 – 00:42:57:09
Agent Palmer
I’m just no, but you I mean, you did do something and I feel like you did something that is almost counterintuitive to the money discussion we just had about being the most engineer thing you could do. And that was you took the left turn.
00:42:57:14 – 00:42:58:19
Carl Landra
Yeah.
00:42:58:24 – 00:43:22:47
Agent Palmer
And, I guess the. I almost want to get into your feelings. Like you took the left turn. And now looking back, it’s been fulfilling. But, like, do you take time to look back and go, like, I’m. I’m so glad that it worked out that I made that decision at that time because of where it led.
00:43:22:52 – 00:43:55:14
Carl Landra
Yeah. I think like there’s there’s a lot of, a lot of, you know, smaller things that led to that happening. I am absolutely, very happy of where I ended up, how I ended up. And like I said, all of those small things that led to this point in time, I would not change it at all. But looking back and thinking, I mean, I looked at what I enjoy and what I’m good at and found ways that I can use those together.
00:43:55:19 – 00:44:18:58
Carl Landra
Right. And so those that was how I got to the point of teaching. Right? You know, in my volunteering, you know, there was an aspect of teaching kids of, of doing some work in the, you know, like life skills kind of stuff. And so I was like, those are those are things that I, I’m doing already. I’m literally doing that in my spare time.
00:44:19:03 – 00:44:36:12
Carl Landra
Maybe if I got paid for that, that would be a good thing. I could just I could do that with my life. So that was kind of I looked at, you know, what am I spending my time in already? What am I enjoying? How am I enjoying it? How am I doing it? Is there a career in any of that?
00:44:36:17 – 00:44:51:20
Carl Landra
And so looking, you know for yourself the things that you enjoy, the things that you do? Maybe there is a hobby or a an aspect of what you do that you’re like, you know what I could do? This could be a thing that I do.
00:44:51:25 – 00:45:26:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, to for the, for the listening audience because I don’t tend to open up or I haven’t opened up very much about this. My job for eight years was i.t web and marketing. Right, which are three distinct different fields. And I, I was lucky enough to kind of fall on my feet, and get a role with an IT company, but I very much missed the web stuff, you know, doing my own sites.
00:45:26:18 – 00:45:54:20
Agent Palmer
Not enough. And I very much missed the marketing and know promoting the Palmer brand is not enough. It’s it’s. And I had a conversation the other day where I lamented the fact that after work, after hours, whether it was my old job or the one I’ve got now, I built the blog and now I’ve got this podcast and I’ve built this brand.
00:45:54:25 – 00:46:37:57
Agent Palmer
And every time I’m sitting across from somebody. They tell me that because I’m not making any money with the blog, and because I’m not making any money with the podcast, that it doesn’t matter. And it bothers me, like almost to my core, as being offended that I can use my skills to entertain or inform or educate people that I don’t know and I can do it to the best of my ability, and I can continue to read and learn and edit and find ways to do all these things better.
00:46:38:01 – 00:47:13:19
Agent Palmer
And yet, to the outside world, it’s a hobby. Tell me what you get paid for. I mean, I guess that’s usually what they tell me. And the more I hear it, the more I go, all right, I really wish I lived in Canada, where universal healthcare would mean if I went out on a limb, I. I wouldn’t have to worry about, what happens if I happen to, you know, break an arm or something?
00:47:13:23 – 00:47:38:34
Agent Palmer
I mean, I’m not really doing anything that would get me there, but, you know, I’m not in danger in that way, but, you know, like, it it is a thing where, like, health care is my number one concern. It’s if it wasn’t, maybe I’d make a go of this. Because to what you’re talking about, as far as you enjoy teaching, I enjoy the conversation.
00:47:38:34 – 00:48:09:43
Agent Palmer
I enjoy the research. I enjoy reaching out to people. There’s very little bit of this entire Palmer persona, that I don’t absolutely love. And I love helping people. I mean, that’s the other part that kind of gets maybe a backseat because I launched my own show is, And, you know, the Wicked Theory podcast is on break, and I’m not behind the scenes of seven days a week anymore.
00:48:09:48 – 00:48:35:27
Agent Palmer
And the stranger cons is gone. And all of these shows that I was really helping behind the scenes are on break or gone or, you know, in a different form or I’m, I enjoy helping people and there’s no money in that from the skill set I have, you know, like Carl does. The Forced Line podcast need some help with marketing?
00:48:35:27 – 00:49:20:08
Agent Palmer
We could all use help with marketing. Can’t help me pay my mortgage and, health care costs. Like, that’s just not a, a a plausibility at the moment. But the more people tell me that what I’m doing doesn’t matter, the more I feel like it does. That’s my takeaway from all of this, right? Like I just go like this can’t I mean, it’s fulfilling to me on a creative level, but it’s fulfilling to me on a personal level, too, because I, I get to make friendships and I get to make relationships and I get to meet people and, you know, within my community, within the circle and the community I want to build
00:49:20:08 – 00:49:34:53
Agent Palmer
as listenership for this show and readership for my blog. I’m I’m not looking for negativity. I’m, I’m trying if I if I don’t write negative reviews because I don’t want to have people read that.
00:49:34:58 – 00:49:35:38
Carl Landra
Right. Yeah.
00:49:35:38 – 00:50:01:37
Agent Palmer
So I want this is what I want to build and it’s funny, I, I had lunch with my mother a couple weeks ago and I, I literally went on a tirade in a restaurant, and my mother agrees with everything I said, but I was basically like, listen, people need to stop looking at me like I’m going to help them with marketing from a standpoint of what’s my ROI?
00:50:01:42 – 00:50:33:48
Agent Palmer
They need to start looking at me as that’s a guy who can help me build a community. Well, why would I spend money building a community? Okay, because my mother worked, with her own business doing internal marketing, but she knows the business side of things to ask me why should anybody care about community? And I said the only thing I knew to be, like, the most true statement, which is local comic book stores, local gaming stores.
00:50:33:48 – 00:50:48:06
Agent Palmer
And many times they overlap. They’re the reason that you want to build community, because there isn’t anyone with a pull list at a local comic book store that couldn’t get their comics cheaper on Amazon or online somewhere else.
00:50:48:11 – 00:50:48:44
Carl Landra
Yeah.
00:50:48:49 – 00:50:59:46
Agent Palmer
So why do they bother to go through the local comic book store? Well, they go through the local comic book store because it’s a community, and they want to support the place that supports their community.
00:50:59:51 – 00:51:00:07
Carl Landra
Yeah.
00:51:00:07 – 00:51:26:10
Agent Palmer
And those are the kind of people you want patronizing your business and utilizing your services. But there’s very little money in that. You know, local gaming stores, local comic stores are always struggling because those communities are tough. But the people that are a part of those communities, they’re a part of something, and they spend a little bit extra for that community.
00:51:26:15 – 00:51:49:36
Agent Palmer
People need that. But how do you sell that and how do I sell that as one guy? Who’s still trying to, you know, pay his mortgage, right, and get health care like, that’s hard. And these are the things I struggle with. And yeah, I can I can see the will start your own business. Then will I have my own business?
00:51:49:36 – 00:51:55:03
Agent Palmer
But it’s not that simple.
00:51:55:08 – 00:52:21:11
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I have all these options, right? I have these skills. I really don’t know where I’m going to end up. I feel like, there’s a part of me that feels like it’s just going to fall into place if I just keep talking to enough people, and it’s whether it’s on this podcast, whether it’s having coffee with somebody or just meeting somebody randomly at a meeting, like, I feel like it’s going to happen.
00:52:21:11 – 00:52:30:16
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know if that makes me, an optimist or a crazy person. I’m not sure what that makes me, but.
00:52:30:16 – 00:52:52:23
Carl Landra
Yeah, I don’t I don’t think it makes you a crazy person at all. I think it certainly an optimist. And I think, I think we can all use some optimism. Right. But when, you know, in hearing you talk about what you love, right, the like. Yeah. Hearing that that passion in what you have, I think, you know, there’s there’s definitely going to be a thing.
00:52:52:23 – 00:53:15:41
Carl Landra
And I think you, you’re, I think you’re closer to that solution than you think you might be. Because in hearing that, you you know, what you like because at first you started talking about, you know, the the podcast and the blog and all those things. But like you, you very quickly brought that back to community and marketing.
00:53:15:45 – 00:53:16:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:53:16:23 – 00:53:37:06
Carl Landra
And and so, you know, for me, I’m like, okay, that, that that’s what you enjoy about what you do. Right? Which is what what I love about the podcasting gig as well is the community right? There are many ways that I could market the show and market are writing and all those things and and get bigger than what we are.
00:53:37:09 – 00:53:57:18
Carl Landra
There’s a lot of them, some of them with different ways that I don’t necessarily agree with, but I want I want to build that community, and I want people who want to be part of it. And that’s what gets you people who are on your side and doing things and supporting each other and helping, like you have for so many years with so many people.
00:53:57:23 – 00:54:22:26
Carl Landra
And so I think doing that right is there is something there where you will find something, you know, whether it be behind the scenes, like you’ve done for so many people for so long doing that help because trust me, there’s there’s a big need in the world for people who will help just for the sake of being like, I enjoyed that.
00:54:22:26 – 00:54:32:04
Carl Landra
I made that person’s day better because there’s so many people that are doing it just because, like, I want to be the person I want to be the guy, right?
00:54:32:05 – 00:55:00:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, I mean, I it’s the biggest, it’s the biggest adjustment for the Palmer Files is I never wanted to be the front man. Like, I, I, I, I grew up, playing instruments. Right? I played the tenor saxophone, which means I got classified as the low brass section, and I the first before I learned to play guitar.
00:55:00:07 – 00:55:24:07
Agent Palmer
I learned to play bass, like, I, I want to be behind. I don’t want to be the lead. And it’s. I have no problem doing this. And I’m kind of turn it around on the fact that I, I actually do enjoy this, but I feel like I get more done and I have more, I don’t know, skills for the behind the scenes gig.
00:55:24:07 – 00:56:00:01
Agent Palmer
And, yeah, we’ll see. Because the other part is this is talking to you about this. Obviously, I, I went on that rant about community with my mom and like I every time I have this conversation or I, I say these things out loud, the the thesis statement gets more succinct and stronger. I just need to keep having these conversations and eventually, at the very least, I’ll have a very, very poignant blog post or podcast episode.
00:56:00:01 – 00:56:04:53
Carl Landra
Or you look, you’ll have narrowed it down to one real succinct tweet.
00:56:04:58 – 00:56:14:43
Agent Palmer
Ooh, 100 that that, I don’t know, a tweet might be much for that, but it’s possible. I might have to use some ampersands.
00:56:14:48 – 00:56:15:24
Carl Landra
Instead.
00:56:15:24 – 00:56:17:24
Agent Palmer
Of. And to save my characters.
00:56:17:24 – 00:56:35:45
Carl Landra
You know, whatever it takes. But at the same time, I, you know, I’ve done the same thing because people ask, why do you why did you switch? And I’ve worked on getting it down to, like, the shortest story possible. And then along comes Palmer. He’s like, hey, want to talk about this for an hour? You know what?
00:56:35:45 – 00:56:49:18
Carl Landra
I’ve been really trying to, to compact this. Sure. Let’s dive into it.
00:56:49:23 – 00:57:18:21
Agent Palmer
I agree with Carl at the end there. I am probably closer than I think, but it doesn’t mean I have the answers or that I’m nearing the end of my journey. But I am well on my way. This episode, on a whole, makes me think of Bob Dylan’s autobiography, Chronicles, which I’m currently reading. Dylan writes, there was a lot of halting and waiting, little acknowledgment, little or affirmation, but sometimes all it takes is a wink or a nod from some unexpected place to vary the tedium of a baffling existence.
00:57:18:25 – 00:57:37:20
Agent Palmer
This conversation with Carl was one of those nods. I know that now, having been a part of it and having listened back to it as I ran through post-production, but that still doesn’t help me with direction and whether I’m two months, two years, or even two days away from figuring it out. Winks and nods from those I respect will always assist me.
00:57:37:33 – 00:57:58:06
Agent Palmer
And I don’t mean to talk about this in a completely singular way either. It just makes it easier to talk about. But everything from either my side of the conversation or Carl’s side is applicable to almost anyone, depending on your situation. For Carl’s part, I find his story courageous. Not only his decision making and thought process, but it took some time.
00:57:58:06 – 00:58:23:35
Agent Palmer
So his follow through as well. I also find it a bit righteous and noble to descriptors that don’t get much use these days. Sure, it’s a win win, but for a professional, any professional to give up their career to teach, that’s not capitalistic unless there’s more money in it, and then it’s not righteous or noble. Now, I’d like to go back to my rant about what I do in my spare time with another Dylan quote from the book about recognition.
00:58:23:40 – 00:58:47:12
Agent Palmer
Sometimes that’s all it takes the kind of recognition that comes when you’re doing the thing for the things sake and you’re on to something. It’s just that nobody recognizes it yet. Dylan’s correct on this account, and as all of my previous guests, Carl included, can tell you, this is supremely and irrevocably tied to podcasting, which makes it no different than blogging in a sense as well.
00:58:47:17 – 00:59:09:37
Agent Palmer
We toil away at keyboards and on microphones to create this content, and then we set it adrift on the internet, which is accessible now as your nearest pocket, and occasionally the veterans more occasionally than the newbies. Check our statistics. We see you out there consuming our wares, either enjoying our content or laughing at us, but all in silence.
00:59:09:42 – 00:59:34:30
Agent Palmer
And if any of us were uncomfortable with the it’s just that nobody recognizes it yet. Part, we wouldn’t be doing it. Look, earlier in the episode, I said what I said about hobbies. I’m not putting down video games or watching whatever streaming service of the month you’ve got downloading into your current screen. But in some way, we all have hobbies that add skills to our lives, professional or otherwise.
00:59:34:35 – 00:59:57:12
Agent Palmer
I’m just saying that I’m not doing this for any other reason other than to create something that maybe someone else will enjoy, but along the way, I’m doing it for me and that’s enough. Yet those skills are transferable and that should be relevant no matter how much money, if any, is being made. But enough of this. It’s time to move on.
00:59:57:12 – 01:00:16:36
Agent Palmer
So, as my good friend Bill Sweeney would say, enough for you. Which reminds me, he show the Wicked Theory podcast is back. People, please check him out. He’s going to do a fortnightly release schedule as well, but it’s opposite this show so you can check out him plus a guest having lighthearted conversations and doing bits for the fun of it.
01:00:16:41 – 01:00:36:36
Agent Palmer
So what did you think of Carl’s story, and do you know of any job openings in my area or remote positions? Tweet or email the show to let me know. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files Episode six. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
01:00:36:37 – 01:01:01:28
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. Let me know what you think. You can tweet the podcast at the Palmer Files, myself at Agent Palmer, and reach this week’s guest, Carl, at Force Line Podcast. The show email is The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And don’t forget to visit the fourth line hockey website, the Fourth Line podcast.com, and see what I’ve got going on on Agent palmer.com.
01:01:01:33 – 01:01:47:39
Agent Palmer
You can also hear more of me in the meantime on our Liner notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and my new gig as co-host of the podcast digest with Dan Lizette.
01:01:47:44 – 01:01:56:28
Agent Palmer
He.
01:01:56:33 – 01:01:59:57
Agent Palmer
Okay. Carl, do you have one final question for me?
01:02:00:01 – 01:02:20:07
Carl Landra
Yes. So I’ve been I’ve. You know, we’ve talked many times throughout the years. I rarely get to see your face. And I do not recall that this is the setting that I looked at this last time, but I’ve been looking at this collection of, pictures, magnets, etc., that you have sitting over here on the side.
01:02:20:11 – 01:02:20:40
Agent Palmer
Sure.
01:02:20:51 – 01:02:29:42
Carl Landra
What? So we’ve got the Bethlehem Steel magnet. We got our full fact. We got this cow magnet. What? What are what’s that black thing that all of them are holding up?
01:02:29:47 – 01:02:58:54
Agent Palmer
Okay, so this right here is a thing that says Agent Palmer, and it’s it’s on that black paper that has like the colors behind it. And you scratch off the black, okay. And the colors up here, that was given to me by one of Grant Markham’s kids at the Pod Tober fest in 2016 when I was in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
01:02:58:59 – 01:03:00:14
Carl Landra
I love it.
01:03:00:19 – 01:03:32:09
Agent Palmer
And, it has a prominent place in my background right now. And I want to tell you something about this background. Obviously, over my left shoulder are the famous pink curtains or infamous pink curtains from from the seven dag stuff. But I’ve been thinking about potentially changing my office around to put a bookcase behind me where, like, if I was on a sports show, there’d be like a hockey helmet and a football helmet and like, a baseball hat behind me.
01:03:32:23 – 01:03:45:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I’ve been thinking of what I could what would if I had the bookcase behind me, what would I put? I think some of the things that are already there are pretty representative. I mean, anybody.
01:03:45:35 – 01:03:46:45
Carl Landra
You’re you’re well on your way.
01:03:46:59 – 01:04:09:50
Agent Palmer
I mean, anybody who listened to the last episode this which you can’t see very well, is a chicken sandwich pack insert that would go in front of a light fixture from Arthur Treacher’s. Okay. The this is a thinkgeek monkey. Rest in peace. Thinkgeek. Now that you’re owned by GameStop or whatever.
01:04:09:55 – 01:04:11:04
Carl Landra
Is that what happened to them?
01:04:11:08 – 01:04:41:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s what happened. Oh, and then Bethlehem Steel, is, Well, I live near Bethlehem, and Bethlehem Steel made the steel most famously for the Golden Gate Bridge. But we had, in the early 1900s, Bethlehem Steel had a soccer club, that did very well. And recently they got the Philadelphia Union head, a minor league of sorts here.
01:04:41:17 – 01:05:20:46
Agent Palmer
That was the Bethlehem club, Bethlehem Steel Football Club again. So that was for that. And, the rest is just like a a fake, backstage pass for Def Leppard’s Hysteria tour and a, print of Brooks Robinson signed. I don’t think it was actually signed by him and I believe. Oh, and, on right here on the front of this file cabinet is a championship banner from the last time the Orioles won the World Series in 1983.
01:05:20:51 – 01:05:36:39
Carl Landra
I appreciate the tour. It’s. I mean, you are. You’re very well on your way, I also. So I moved this summer, and I was like, I should do that. And the view you clearly have is the most boring of views. I’ll move out of the way. It up. Yeah.
01:05:36:46 – 01:05:38:13
Agent Palmer
I’ve got a we’ve had some stuff.
01:05:38:19 – 01:05:56:10
Carl Landra
I’ve got a window with some pillows over there. Two of them are generic and one of them is, a Jeff Gordon pillow. One of two Jeff Gordon pillows I have in this room, and a couch. And that’s it. It used to be that you’d look at this closet, which I’ve now shut the door on.
01:05:56:15 – 01:05:57:22
Agent Palmer
Yep.
01:05:57:27 – 01:05:58:27
Carl Landra
That’s about it.
01:05:58:31 – 01:06:40:47
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I really think I want like, that esthetic of, like, here are my books or what have you. Before I leave you, what. The most unfortunate thing, I think, is that under the bookcase I’m looking at behind my computer that you’re on, I have a slightly disassembled hard drive where I can see the spinning disk. And I would love to put that behind me, but I worry about what the light from the computer will look like in the spinning disk of an old hard drive.
01:06:40:47 – 01:06:45:10
Agent Palmer
And, like, would that distract people? And what would that do?
01:06:45:15 – 01:06:53:07
Carl Landra
You know, I think it would be. I think it’d be good. Yeah. I think having, you know, are you distracted by it?
01:06:53:11 – 01:07:01:56
Agent Palmer
I, I look at it occasionally and then because of the mirror effect I’m like, is that those are cords hanging off the other side of my desk. Yes, absolutely. That’s what those.
01:07:01:56 – 01:07:08:52
Carl Landra
Are. Yeah. No, I think that’d be great. I fully, fully support that decision.
01:07:08:57 – 01:07:11:23
Agent Palmer
I’m I’m working on it.
01:07:11:28 – 01:07:11:51
Carl Landra
Awesome.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).