Episode 98 features Mikey Neumann, whom you may know from FilmJoy, Movies with Mikey, Deep Dive or perhaps his days at Gearbox and those Borderland games.
We discuss creating YouTube content, informational osmosis, situational nihilism, defining art, and much much more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- “No one knows what they’re doing.”
- There is no best.
- Situational Nihilism
- FilmJoy – Looking for the good…
- Everyone needs notes
- Informational Osmosis
- Behind the microphone
- “Get Off the Floor”
- Too much of a good thing
- Career transitions
- Being a YouTuber is stressful
- “Fiercely millennial.”
- Taking pictures
- What is art?
- Ambition
- Quality
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
“Get Off the Floor” – Movies with Mikey
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:08 – 00:00:34:45
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agentpalmer.com Palmer’s Trek, Star trek The Motion Picture. Ever the scientist, Carl Sagan connects all the dots in the original cosmos and last episode’s conversation with Jacob has emboldened me to not only find, but actively seek more balance. This is The Palmer Files episode 98, featuring Mikey Neumann, who you may know from film Joy, movies with Mikey, Deep Dive, or perhaps his days at gearbox, and those borderland games we discussed creating YouTube content, informational osmosis, situational nihilism, defining art, and much, much more.
00:00:34:47 – 00:01:08:09
Agent Palmer
Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:08:14 – 00:01:33:24
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer, and on this 98th episode is Mikey Neumann. Perhaps you know him as a fixture at Gearbox Software for over a decade, working on titles such as Brothers in Arms and Borderlands. Or perhaps you know him as a creator behind the mic, and sometimes in front of the camera for the YouTube channel film Joy, where you can see movies with Mikey and Deep dive his movies with Mikey.
00:01:33:24 – 00:02:04:35
Agent Palmer
Essays are, to me, some of the best pieces of film discussion on the platform, and his 2018 video Get Off the Floor, about his 2017 struggles. Stay With Me may be the most personal, inward piece of storytelling that also can be inspiring to others that I have ever watched. After this conversation, I encourage you to watch Get Off the Floor, link in the show notes, and also to take in the friendships and fun of Deep Dive and the rest of Mikey’s wonderful word crafting in all of his other movies with Mikey.
00:02:04:40 – 00:02:26:58
Agent Palmer
In the meantime, what you are about to hear is a conversation. Besides, it being two old guys yelling at a cloud together is no one knows what they’re doing. Situation on the Hill is him transitioning from one career to another. What is art? Being fiercely millennial? YouTube. The world needs notes, and maybe we can listen more. All of that and a whole lot more is coming your way shortly.
00:02:26:58 – 00:02:48:35
Agent Palmer
But first, remember that if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all contact information for Mikey and myself in the show notes, you can visit youtube.com, slash film Joy, or even see more behind the scenes at Patreon.com slash Movies with Mikey. That’s Mikey. You can also support Mikey with some cool merch purchases at Kato office Dot Inc.
00:02:48:40 – 00:03:03:21
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget you can see all my writings and rantings on Jim palmer.com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:03:03:26 – 00:03:13:32
Agent Palmer
Mikey, I want to let you know that no one knows what they’re doing speaks to me on such a level you have. You have no idea.
00:03:13:47 – 00:03:32:27
Mikey Neumann
I, I feel like of phrases that were bandied about like back and forth it pax East we we have pins that say that it was it was a poppy. They’re saying, we have stumbled upon something I, universal truth of the cosmos.
00:03:32:38 – 00:03:57:31
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I, I, I think it’s very important for that preface for when I ask you this very important question. I’ve watched specifically. I don’t remember what video was. I really wish I could, like, pull it out. Like, I’m not that kind of remember, but like, there was a point in one of your movies with Mikey where you said, it’s hard to write about your favorites.
00:03:57:36 – 00:03:59:53
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, it was one of the Edgar Wright ones. I think.
00:03:59:58 – 00:04:00:50
Mikey Neumann
Yeah, probably.
00:04:00:55 – 00:04:21:19
Agent Palmer
And I have a blog that is over a decade old where for at least the last eight years, I have been trying to write a post about Real Genius, which is one of my, like, favorite, one of my personal favorites. It’s not like the best movie, it’s just one of my personal favorites.
00:04:21:23 – 00:04:23:26
Mikey Neumann
There is no best, there is no worst.
00:04:23:33 – 00:04:44:52
Agent Palmer
I have not been able to write said post. I don’t do it. I don’t know if it’s I like it too much, I don’t. I’ve like sat down and I like did the whole thing. Like I took notes like maybe. And then I sit down to actually write about it and it never happens. And when you said it’s hard to write about your favorites, I went.
00:04:44:57 – 00:05:03:04
Mikey Neumann
Yeah, that that sounds like probably Hot Fuzz. Because that was like right after I got out of the hospital. And I think I was just nihilistic enough to, like, let’s go. Let’s go for the gold.
00:05:03:08 – 00:05:09:28
Agent Palmer
How did you get over it, though? Like, is it like like because I’m still I’m still like at that post still doesn’t exist.
00:05:09:39 – 00:05:31:47
Mikey Neumann
I, I, not to pivot to video games. There’s a certain class of armor I think I developed in the game industry as an online personality. There are certain bars that certain comments will reach, like the first death threat, the first death threat against your family, like.
00:05:31:47 – 00:05:32:34
Agent Palmer
Okay, yeah.
00:05:32:37 – 00:05:57:39
Mikey Neumann
At some point it stops affecting you. I think in the same way. And like once you have talked and there’s so many people that I know that this is true of, once you have talked openly about your love of Star Wars on the internet, nothing can be taken from you because like the depths of depravity of the shit people will say to you is is unending.
00:05:57:43 – 00:06:09:45
Mikey Neumann
I don’t know, it’s like freeing the situational nihilism of of the 2020s. Like like you can’t hurt me anymore. Okay, you can try I.
00:06:09:52 – 00:06:28:01
Agent Palmer
All right? I mean, I I’ve seen your Star Wars essays and I enjoy I will say this film, Joy is the perfect brand. Because I enjoy the fact that you look for the good, you acknowledge the bad, but you look for the good.
00:06:28:01 – 00:06:58:24
Mikey Neumann
Well, everything. Everyone needs notes. I think if if there’s like, overarching thought process behind movies, Mikey, it’s. Can I make a video essay show about bettering myself through difficult times? The continued to be surprising, literally recording this the the, New York grand jury and like elected to indict a former president 30 minutes ago. Yeah. And we’re recording.
00:06:58:24 – 00:07:03:21
Mikey Neumann
Yeah. Let’s go. The world is a flat circle, and it has very sharp teeth.
00:07:03:21 – 00:07:17:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I I’ve been burying my head in the sand. I don’t let’s put it this way. I know that that happened, but I don’t like that. I know that that happened because I didn’t seek it out. Like information.
00:07:17:57 – 00:07:18:52
Mikey Neumann
Osmosis. Yeah.
00:07:19:07 – 00:07:25:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I’m like the most informed osmosis person. And I hate it.
00:07:25:48 – 00:07:46:38
Mikey Neumann
We all are. I can tell you the ten most popular dances on TikTok over the last five years, and I’ve never even been to TikTok. It is just the informational osmosis of the time we live. Is it all media? Is all other media existing predominantly in our own heads at the same time?
00:07:46:42 – 00:07:48:01
Agent Palmer
Yeah, well.
00:07:48:06 – 00:07:55:10
Mikey Neumann
Maybe maybe you’re getting the Joe Rogan Mikey Neumann podcast where I’m just like, man, let’s just talk about like, stuff.
00:07:55:10 – 00:08:21:20
Agent Palmer
No, I look, I look, I will say this, I, I am a person that would rather create content than consume it, but that’s not entirely a plausible aspect 24 hours a day. But I’d rather be writing and doing this and creating this, and I, I, I’ve seesawed and dabbled into the idea of maybe video.
00:08:21:25 – 00:08:21:43
Mikey Neumann
Right.
00:08:21:47 – 00:08:24:52
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I, I like hiding behind the microphone like let’s.
00:08:25:06 – 00:08:31:25
Mikey Neumann
I do, do I have a show with video in it and you never really see me on it, so.
00:08:31:29 – 00:08:33:27
Agent Palmer
It’s, it’s, Okay.
00:08:33:32 – 00:08:41:59
Mikey Neumann
All right. Well, I just I’m not, I don’t know. I’m. I want to subvert the form. I want to become one with the YouTube algorithm.
00:08:42:04 – 00:08:59:15
Agent Palmer
Well, I actually I wanted to ask you because, I love, the. I love that you do like, asides in your videos. They’re not. They’re polished, but they’re not completely like, you show a little of the dirt every now and then.
00:08:59:20 – 00:08:59:42
Mikey Neumann
Sure.
00:08:59:56 – 00:09:20:17
Agent Palmer
And what comes first like, is that just in the moment, like when you’re recording, you’re like, I’ve got a I’ve got an aside like, let’s do it thing. And I’m no like on this podcast, I’m known for like telling stories and being like, hey, I remember that time. So like, I, you know, you have to play into the form.
00:09:20:22 – 00:09:46:59
Mikey Neumann
Yeah, that’s a bit I started doing that bit with Chris Stroud when we did the Chainsaw Suit podcast. The whole oh, and then we’re off, mate, because I just think that’s funny. Yeah, to pretend there’s a producer because, like, we were just like two kids, you know, with a couple of podcast microphones. There wasn’t a producer. Yeah. And then we just came up with a whole, like, narrative about who was the producer at that.
00:09:47:00 – 00:10:04:15
Mikey Neumann
It was way too complicated. And then people made lure websites and we’re like, nope, we’re out. Once there’s law, I’m out. That’s the that’s the Mickey Rourke, that’s the Mickey guarantee. No law, no rules. Just. Right. Yeah.
00:10:04:20 – 00:10:27:39
Agent Palmer
I don’t know. I, I but but I will say you you craft an essay and it was like you came from video games where you’re telling story but then telling story or creating stories very different than like, here’s, 25 minutes. Like, you’ve definitely grown, but like, did you always have it in you?
00:10:27:39 – 00:11:01:13
Mikey Neumann
Yeah, I mean, I think the same sort of like if you look at the the two largest video game series I worked on, three games in Bo, actually four games and both, Borderlands and the Brothers in Arms series. They’re all kind of less stories as they are, like the sort of exposed machinations of the video game which is hanging out with people like, I don’t I it’s always been like, I want you to have an experiential story that’s sort of your own around people.
00:11:01:13 – 00:11:16:56
Mikey Neumann
I’m writing more than like a leads to be like, everybody made fun of Borderlands one because it is literally just one guy. It’s the Diablo problem. I’ve been talking about this in the story space for 20,000 years. Like you fight the first boss in Diablo.
00:11:17:01 – 00:11:19:43
Mikey Neumann
I will take your soul.
00:11:19:48 – 00:11:37:17
Mikey Neumann
But I you know I’m the most powerful. Whatever. Kill him immediately. The next guy jumps on the psychic network. Actually, I am the mirror. And it’s just you keep. Yeah, it’s it’s the the show 24. There’s always a bigger.
00:11:37:22 – 00:11:37:47
Agent Palmer
Battle.
00:11:37:51 – 00:11:48:57
Mikey Neumann
For. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s just the. It’s not like storytelling so much is. It is like an experience I guess is sort of my general story vibe.
00:11:49:01 – 00:12:01:31
Agent Palmer
Well, I think the other piece that’s most important is that not only do I appreciate no one knows what they’re doing, but get off the mat. Get off the floor.
00:12:01:44 – 00:12:02:29
Mikey Neumann
Get off the floor.
00:12:02:29 – 00:12:21:10
Agent Palmer
You get off the floor. I, I didn’t know your story until that moment. I had come to your videos otherwise. And now it’s just like, oh, Mike, Mike, you’ve got another video. Like, because I didn’t come to you from the beginning. So I got the benefit of binge culture with you. With you.
00:12:21:14 – 00:12:45:33
Mikey Neumann
Right? Yeah. So it’s. Yeah, it’s a, it’s a story because it’s funny to like go back and look at older episodes, but like the story of like 2017, Mikey I’m at the top of the world making like the Princess Mononoke episode. I’m like, I’m firing on all cylinders. Boom. Hospital.
00:12:45:35 – 00:12:49:36
Agent Palmer
Was that also the year you got an Emmy nomination?
00:12:49:43 – 00:13:19:04
Mikey Neumann
I think was like a nomination to a nomination. I like that whole thing. Like I the opinion and I walked away from all that from was for profit Awards shows don’t mean anything because like to get fully to a nomination. It costs like a certain like several thousand dollars to send out screener copies for a video that exists on the internet to send them like a link, but like I have to pay you $7,000 to print DVDs.
00:13:19:09 – 00:13:20:22
Mikey Neumann
No thank you. Yeah.
00:13:20:24 – 00:13:22:32
Agent Palmer
No that is.
00:13:22:32 – 00:13:26:26
Mikey Neumann
Bleep. Just bleep the word Emmy from this podcast and you’ll be fine.
00:13:26:31 – 00:13:31:01
Agent Palmer
Oh okay. Okay I could do I mean you know.
00:13:31:06 – 00:13:31:57
Agent Palmer
But anyway.
00:13:32:02 – 00:13:38:43
Mikey Neumann
I don’t want to get in trouble. I don’t want to get blacklisted from award shows I’ll never pay for anyway. So,
00:13:38:48 – 00:13:46:16
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I don’t I don’t like awards, I don’t like, I don’t like awards shows. And I don’t like experts like that. Like, that’s. I don’t like experts either.
00:13:46:16 – 00:14:11:13
Mikey Neumann
The only time I’ve cared about an award show in the last, ten years was this year. I needed more than anything. Key. Key Huawei Cuarn to win an Oscar and break my heart in half. And he did all of that. So that was the good. That was the good one. Then we got one. We did it. We got a good award.
00:14:11:17 – 00:14:17:57
Agent Palmer
I’m using I’m using that everywhere. Everything all at once now as my litmus test for like, can you still be my friend?
00:14:18:02 – 00:14:20:51
Mikey Neumann
Do you have media literacy of any kind?
00:14:20:51 – 00:14:38:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah, pretty much like, because I, I’ve seen some like I go on Facebook once a year, basically. And I happened that happened to be recently and I had like four people in my feed that were like, I don’t understand this movie. And I was like, we can’t be friends anymore. Like, they’re old acquaintances anyway. Like, we we don’t talk.
00:14:38:54 – 00:14:46:46
Agent Palmer
But like, I was just like, how do you how do you how do you not get this movie? Like, I don’t understand why you don’t get all the layers.
00:14:46:54 – 00:15:12:33
Mikey Neumann
But it’s but also you’re taking some of that for granted, right? Because you’re, you’re sort of average consumer isn’t super familiar with like the machinations of the metaverse and like how overexposed they are at this moment in time. But, because we had we had 15, 20 years to, like, adjust to the idea of the DC multiverse and you know what I mean?
00:15:12:33 – 00:15:24:18
Mikey Neumann
Like, yeah, it’s a it’s a very nerd sort of centered storyline, that I do think we take for granted and have ruined.
00:15:24:27 – 00:15:30:41
Agent Palmer
But I thought we won. I thought we took over. So I feel like I thought I thought everybody had to learn our stuff now. Like, hey.
00:15:30:43 – 00:15:43:51
Mikey Neumann
I think that there was a press release from God. I believe that when Ant-Man three came out. It’s over. Y’all know what? Sorry. Pack it up, nerds.
00:15:43:56 – 00:15:45:09
Agent Palmer
Oh, man. Signed.
00:15:45:09 – 00:15:46:50
Mikey Neumann
God. Just. Right, right.
00:15:46:50 – 00:15:49:52
Agent Palmer
There. We. I mean, we had it, and it just slipped through it.
00:15:49:52 – 00:16:08:28
Mikey Neumann
It was right there. Yeah, you can have too much of a good thing. It’s called candy. And everyone knows what this feels like because Ant-Man three was definitely like, oh, that was too much Cunninghame. Oh no. Oh boy. I’m making fun of a movie I have not seen.
00:16:08:28 – 00:16:09:04
Agent Palmer
I haven’t I.
00:16:09:06 – 00:16:10:06
Mikey Neumann
Read, but I haven’t.
00:16:10:06 – 00:16:12:11
Agent Palmer
I haven’t seen it yet either. I’m, I’m.
00:16:12:17 – 00:16:14:44
Mikey Neumann
That is the telling aspect of this.
00:16:14:44 – 00:16:45:26
Agent Palmer
I think I, I also have to give you props for something that I don’t know if you’ve considered. I know that 2017 three for a loop. And anybody I’ll, I’ll link the video in the show notes like that’s a video everybody should watch, I think. But that aside, you went from a video game, career to a YouTube content creation career.
00:16:45:31 – 00:16:52:45
Agent Palmer
And from over here, as a viewer, it it seemed seamless.
00:16:52:50 – 00:16:58:35
Mikey Neumann
They kind of overlap, though, because I sort of started the movie. So Mikey Thing was still working at gearbox.
00:16:58:35 – 00:17:17:44
Agent Palmer
But but the reason I bring it up is because I am I’m a, I’m a sports ball fan of lots of sports and I am always amazed by the lack of transition. Look, you and I are both kind of on the other side of 40 or I’m 40, right, I.
00:17:17:46 – 00:17:20:55
Mikey Neumann
Am, I’ll be 41. April 16th.
00:17:21:00 – 00:17:26:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah, and I’ll be 40 in April 7th. So.
00:17:26:11 – 00:17:30:25
Mikey Neumann
Well, we both look exceptional for our age, so it’s great.
00:17:30:25 – 00:17:41:11
Agent Palmer
But but the sports ball part of it is like at 40, if we were professional sports, we would first of all be old. And second of all be looking for that next thing.
00:17:41:16 – 00:17:41:56
Mikey Neumann
Right.
00:17:42:01 – 00:18:02:40
Agent Palmer
And I am always like, I had a, career in the nonprofit for ten years, and it ended. And I have not recovered since. Like as far as professionally, I just don’t know what I’m going to do. And even though there was overlap, I feel like this is your second career and you kind of did did it well.
00:18:02:40 – 00:18:07:31
Agent Palmer
As far as transitioning from one career to another.
00:18:07:36 – 00:18:21:08
Mikey Neumann
I think I made it look easier than it is. Okay. I it’s it being a YouTuber is just as stressful job. Oh, no, I would say.
00:18:21:13 – 00:18:24:47
Agent Palmer
I would say putting anything out on the internet is a stressful job. Yeah.
00:18:24:47 – 00:18:43:27
Mikey Neumann
Well, you have to, like, internalize a lot and like the comments to get through the like live in your head rent free. You have to like, never tell anyone, you know what I mean? Like, it’s it’s a weird. I’m trying to like, think about how to pivot. This is so like how you said you’re 39.
00:18:43:34 – 00:18:44:52
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Well, yeah.
00:18:44:57 – 00:18:51:14
Mikey Neumann
Do you identify as Gen X or a millennial? And I’m asking this as a trick question.
00:18:51:27 – 00:18:54:18
Agent Palmer
I, I, I’m Gen X.
00:18:54:23 – 00:19:23:32
Mikey Neumann
Oh, yeah. Interesting. Younger than me. So yeah, I have a very deep rooted chip on my shoulder that my partner often tells me I’m embarrassing or when I ever say in public I am fiercely millennial. Okay, it’s an identity, right? Like you identify with which aspects of which generations. But as someone who was so, like, fiercely rejected from Gen X, okay.
00:19:23:36 – 00:19:36:05
Mikey Neumann
And then because I was born in 1982, I graduated high school in the year 2000. Yeah. You’re in. They literally invent the term millennial for us. Yeah.
00:19:36:10 – 00:19:36:45
Agent Palmer
I’m I’m what?
00:19:36:46 – 00:19:39:28
Mikey Neumann
You’re I’m a customer. We’re both cars.
00:19:39:30 – 00:19:39:44
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:19:39:58 – 00:19:42:01
Mikey Neumann
And I already of living in the cracks.
00:19:42:02 – 00:19:55:57
Agent Palmer
And I’m one year behind you and, like, just, I think it’s just the me. I was consuming old media for my entire middle high school career instead of current media. And I like.
00:19:55:57 – 00:19:58:39
Mikey Neumann
Charles in charge. Family ties.
00:19:58:43 – 00:20:13:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You know what I like? And I was listening to the classics. I held on to, like, 80s hair metal longer than I probably should. I think I think I just held on to that culture long enough during my formidable years, instead of experiencing what was happening at the time.
00:20:13:45 – 00:20:14:25
Mikey Neumann
Right.
00:20:14:30 – 00:20:16:26
Agent Palmer
And I think that’s why.
00:20:16:30 – 00:20:22:34
Mikey Neumann
That’s what I mean. Everyone can like the the, the edges are fungible.
00:20:22:34 – 00:20:23:33
Agent Palmer
Well, and look.
00:20:23:35 – 00:20:24:39
Mikey Neumann
Unlike the tokens.
00:20:24:53 – 00:20:30:17
Agent Palmer
Let me be let me be true here. The older I get, the more millennial I become.
00:20:30:30 – 00:21:07:07
Mikey Neumann
Right? I that’s that’s the point. I would because I’ve, I’ve had this idea for like a documentary in my head for a while about the idea of the millennial because like talk about a generation of people where work and affordable education and health care are distant dreams. Yes. And and you have an entire like, group of people that learned how to monetize every freaking thing under the sun.
00:21:07:07 – 00:21:39:18
Mikey Neumann
Like we monetized YouTube, Instagram, like we created new jobs sectors for us. And I think that is incredible. The sort of flip side is I don’t, think that the this, this sort of quick growth of an entire new industry came with a lot of business know how or ability to, to not waste a shitload of money, for example, as all YouTubers often do.
00:21:39:22 – 00:21:46:18
Mikey Neumann
It’s a it’s a hard problem. We, we monetize something without really taking our reins of the production of that thing.
00:21:46:25 – 00:22:05:59
Agent Palmer
That’s fair, I think. I think the other kind of problem is, when we when we monetized any part of online, we somehow forgot to legitimize it. So, like, I can tell people like, oh, no, I talked to Mikey. He’s a YouTuber, and they’ll be like, he makes money at that. And like, yeah, no, no, he he yeah, he you’ll.
00:22:05:59 – 00:22:12:28
Mikey Neumann
Never be legitimate to a boomer. Yeah. He’s it’s still talk about coal mining like I.
00:22:12:29 – 00:22:16:45
Agent Palmer
Well look I’ve been I’ve bit my favorite.
00:22:16:45 – 00:22:19:24
Mikey Neumann
We do a coal together.
00:22:19:28 – 00:22:31:28
Agent Palmer
But my favorite non-sequitur is I’m a blogger and people always ask me when I’m going to write a book. As if those two things like that, that’s the apparently the only reason I became a blogger. Well, I’m to write a book.
00:22:31:28 – 00:22:47:00
Mikey Neumann
Here, so I have to have a website with classes you can subscribe to for a small monthly fee, where I get out of a Ferrari and floss on you and say, you could be just like me by my class team.
00:22:47:04 – 00:22:55:03
Agent Palmer
The number are you going to? But but I mean, here’s the thing. Like, do people ask you when you’re movies coming out because you talk about movies?
00:22:55:17 – 00:23:16:09
Mikey Neumann
I wish people asked me that because I’d be like, next year, give hey, sign here to give me money to produce a film. It would be better than some stuff that is that like Disney hire me to do any animated remake. Okay, it won’t be the best, but it won’t be the worst. I’ve seen some of these, y’all.
00:23:16:09 – 00:23:25:50
Mikey Neumann
They’re not always great. It’s almost like you’re making products without an intent or artistic vision behind them in any way whatsoever.
00:23:25:50 – 00:23:31:52
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, we did the last one, so we have to do the next one. Like, that’s it. We’re live actioning everything.
00:23:31:56 – 00:23:41:40
Mikey Neumann
And imagine making a CG version of Dumbo that didn’t understand the point of Dumbo at all. Imagine, if you will.
00:23:41:44 – 00:23:44:54
Agent Palmer
In that world.
00:23:44:59 – 00:23:50:05
Mikey Neumann
From the mind timber kind of. I guess.
00:23:50:10 – 00:23:56:40
Agent Palmer
Oh, man. Do you, do you, I have to ask this because I know you create content.
00:23:56:45 – 00:24:00:20
Mikey Neumann
Content? Content, over pronounced content.
00:24:00:25 – 00:24:07:17
Agent Palmer
Do you look at everything as content? Because it’s it’s it’s a problem. I’m. I’m slowly getting over that.
00:24:07:22 – 00:24:38:09
Mikey Neumann
I, I, I try to, in my personal life, live a fulfilling life sort of devoid of an always online personality insofar, me and my partner fantasy draft competition reality shows. Okay. And we make up individual rules for like, Top Chef or Tournament of Champions or Project Runway. Like sort of custom per season. And we don’t really post about it online.
00:24:38:09 – 00:25:09:57
Mikey Neumann
We don’t post the rules like it’s just a thing that we enjoy. And, like, I don’t know, I think, like having moments to you and like, your closest people is important. Like, instead of just everything is online. We we have, for example, a very relevant example. Children of YouTube families are coming of age to the point that they can sort of enunciate their experience back to the world.
00:25:09:57 – 00:25:28:30
Mikey Neumann
And they’re like, I hold this against my parents greatly. Like, yeah, maybe my potty training shouldn’t be on the friggin internet. Maybe there’s like, maybe this was a betrayal of my trust. So I think we’ve we’ve invented new ways to sort of break our children. God, I’m so depressing today.
00:25:28:31 – 00:25:32:26
Agent Palmer
No, no, you’re not. Because, like you. So there are things that are.
00:25:32:27 – 00:25:34:26
Mikey Neumann
Pointing out the problems.
00:25:34:30 – 00:25:46:18
Agent Palmer
But there are things that stay with me like I play I one of the early parts of the blog is I spent a lot of time reminiscing about the way Magic the Gathering used to be, because I was that old man.
00:25:46:18 – 00:25:50:08
Mikey Neumann
Like, it’s it’s never been the same after chasm sculpture.
00:25:50:13 – 00:25:51:49
Agent Palmer
I well, I, I.
00:25:51:49 – 00:25:53:27
Mikey Neumann
Work hard at the only card.
00:25:53:29 – 00:26:03:52
Agent Palmer
I learned about that actually, but I but obviously I was going to say it was never the same after the year 1998. Basically.
00:26:03:57 – 00:26:05:54
Mikey Neumann
I’m post magic relevancy.
00:26:05:54 – 00:26:07:56
Agent Palmer
That’s but I started playing again.
00:26:07:56 – 00:26:09:01
Mikey Neumann
Where’s my manager?
00:26:09:01 – 00:26:09:43
Agent Palmer
So now actually.
00:26:09:49 – 00:26:10:29
Mikey Neumann
Karen.
00:26:10:29 – 00:26:21:53
Agent Palmer
You’re you’re relevant again because I’m playing again. Okay. So but like I, I spent way too many words on the blog lamenting the way it used to be when I was a child.
00:26:21:58 – 00:26:28:05
Mikey Neumann
Would you would you call yourself a conservative of the magic space?
00:26:28:10 – 00:26:31:48
Agent Palmer
I would consider myself an old fart of the magic space.
00:26:31:48 – 00:26:36:01
Mikey Neumann
See, I’m using words to trap people into understanding what they mean.
00:26:36:10 – 00:26:41:05
Agent Palmer
No, I’m definitely just an old man, like I can’t. What? What?
00:26:41:10 – 00:26:42:43
Mikey Neumann
Clear cloud?
00:26:42:47 – 00:26:59:33
Agent Palmer
Yeah, seriously. Like, where’s that cloud? I can shake my fist at? Like, that’s when it comes to magic. That’s me. Like, I, I’m, I, I literally open packs. I’m like, this card would break the 1996 made by itself just, I yeah, I.
00:26:59:38 – 00:27:07:33
Mikey Neumann
Here’s, here’s way too much of a story. I remember. So I was a professional worms two player back in high school.
00:27:07:33 – 00:27:08:01
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:27:08:14 – 00:27:33:35
Mikey Neumann
And worms two is like the most editable, like, really customizable worms experience these sort of like external programs. And then Worms Armageddon came out and it was so much less customizable and I remember like, this feeling that like as new products come out, you will have less control over them and they don’t care about you. Like. Yeah. And I remember I was like a worms too conservative.
00:27:33:35 – 00:27:46:39
Mikey Neumann
And I’m like, this is bad. I need to possibly find a real like use of my time. I was third in the world on Casey’s ladder. Look it up, Mike Zorn. That’s up.
00:27:46:39 – 00:27:54:11
Agent Palmer
There. That’s insane. That’s insane. But you still remember that, though. That’s never going to leave you.
00:27:54:16 – 00:27:59:48
Mikey Neumann
Know, I to this day, I can still roll better than anyone in the room, guaranteed.
00:27:59:52 – 00:28:09:31
Agent Palmer
By the way. But for comparison, 1996, I was, in the top 25in the northeast region at the Magic the Gathering proton qualifier.
00:28:09:31 – 00:28:11:56
Mikey Neumann
There you go.
00:28:12:01 – 00:28:31:28
Agent Palmer
But they don’t you they got rid of all of that stuff. So like, there’s all you like I because I went to look it up and I was like, how what? Like what was my. Yeah. No, that, like, Wizards just erased everything from like the year 2000 and prior. And I was like, oh, I’ve said that’s the one thing I had.
00:28:31:33 – 00:28:35:05
Mikey Neumann
Crap. You got a microphone. Quick. Make something up.
00:28:35:12 – 00:28:38:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, it’s it’s fine. I, I, I while.
00:28:38:18 – 00:28:44:21
Mikey Neumann
You were at the president link go, go. Magic the gather. That was incredible.
00:28:44:26 – 00:28:55:17
Agent Palmer
Look, man. Look, when when I was 14, I worked in the shop that we had Magic the Gathering. We had three land computers for quake, Warcraft two, and Diablo. And, like, that was my best.
00:28:55:28 – 00:28:57:11
Mikey Neumann
Job at 14.
00:28:57:16 – 00:28:58:55
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, it was I got paid.
00:28:59:00 – 00:29:01:24
Mikey Neumann
I want to talk to some people about some labor issues.
00:29:01:24 – 00:29:06:25
Agent Palmer
Look, I got paid. Look, I got paid in cards. My parents were thrilled.
00:29:06:30 – 00:29:10:49
Mikey Neumann
Look, it’s okay. It was just a crime. Is not maybe the defense.
00:29:10:49 – 00:29:17:24
Agent Palmer
I know, I’m just believe it, but I mean, at the at that point, it’s like, well, we don’t have to buy him cards, so we don’t care.
00:29:17:24 – 00:29:21:56
Mikey Neumann
I think it was pre the year 2000 laws did not exist. I mean like.
00:29:21:56 – 00:29:28:58
Agent Palmer
For it was the olden days like I guess for our generation anything before Napster doesn’t count. Right. Like is that.
00:29:28:58 – 00:29:33:21
Mikey Neumann
Right. Yeah. See after is college for me. Yeah. Get off my lawn.
00:29:33:28 – 00:29:44:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s what I mean. Look, and here’s the thing. There were no camera phones. And if they were, they were crap. So there’s no proof. There’s no picture. It did or it didn’t happen unless somebody actually.
00:29:44:10 – 00:29:48:30
Mikey Neumann
In film camera. I was a super nerd.
00:29:48:34 – 00:29:55:23
Agent Palmer
All right. Okay, well, here’s a question. Do you exist in those photos, or is it just you taking the photos?
00:29:55:28 – 00:30:16:14
Mikey Neumann
I mean, I there’s a lot of pictures of me, my, like, as a child, my parents were good about taking film photographs. And then in high school, I had my own film camera. So I’d take pictures of me and my friends. I took a lot of pictures of the engineering feat of what a selfie is because like, oh.
00:30:16:15 – 00:30:16:35
Agent Palmer
My God.
00:30:16:40 – 00:30:36:42
Mikey Neumann
You no, no. We basically guesstimating whether the autofocus has like gone correctly and then waiting the like four days and two hours at a target waiting for the, you know, photos to slide down that of, of nobody knows what it was like for us man.
00:30:36:42 – 00:30:45:08
Agent Palmer
So wait so when you were in high school though, like did you do like the whole like photography, like go in the dark room and do this?
00:30:45:08 – 00:31:04:33
Mikey Neumann
I developed my own I my friends, this is true. My friends worked at the Polaroid booth inside the target. Okay, so I would just like, hang out at target with my friends while they developed photos and sometimes I would give them roles to develop.
00:31:04:38 – 00:31:05:11
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:31:05:16 – 00:31:11:41
Mikey Neumann
Sorry, target. I stole $4 worth of chemicals from you 28 years ago. I.
00:31:11:41 – 00:31:15:28
Agent Palmer
Think, yeah, I think the statutes up on that because I.
00:31:15:31 – 00:31:20:47
Mikey Neumann
Remember, like, the cops pull up right off, right. Oh, dang. Oh, shoot, I was wrong.
00:31:20:49 – 00:31:31:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, I because I remember I think there’s a part of, what you talk about like that in between that forgotten that crack generation. Like there’s, there’s definitely a we have.
00:31:31:42 – 00:31:33:53
Mikey Neumann
Our we call ourselves Casper’s not the craft.
00:31:33:58 – 00:31:42:25
Agent Palmer
Generation I vault. I also prefer the Oregon Trail generation. That’s my favorite of all of the names that have been given to us.
00:31:42:29 – 00:31:45:44
Mikey Neumann
Yeah, right. Yeah. Dysentery generation died.
00:31:45:44 – 00:31:51:01
Agent Palmer
Of dysentery generation. If if any one of us dies of dysentery, that’s that.
00:31:51:06 – 00:32:10:41
Mikey Neumann
It’s always. It’s always the third. The third friend. You know how, like, you’re playing Oregon Trail at school and you’re like, Sammy, you’re my best friend, Carl. You’re my other friend. You know Bernie’s, it’s. You’re on here, too. And it’s like Bernie’s dies because, like a bear or, I don’t know, we lived a different life back then.
00:32:10:41 – 00:32:13:31
Agent Palmer
We I. Yeah. Do you miss it?
00:32:13:36 – 00:32:23:59
Mikey Neumann
I, I, I think romanticization of the past is the pitfall of the future. Whoa. That was deep.
00:32:24:03 – 00:32:46:20
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I mean, I think I, I, I think I’m, I’m waiting for our childhood to be shown on the screen because like, in the 90s, you had, like, Dazed and Confused and everybody looked back to the 70s and now and then, then in the 80s and 90s, people are starting to look back. All right. Are we are we there yet?
00:32:46:25 – 00:32:57:23
Mikey Neumann
I wish, sometime like, maybe a decade earlier birth for me because then like super eight films of me is an adorable baby would exist.
00:32:57:31 – 00:32:58:03
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:32:58:03 – 00:33:07:54
Mikey Neumann
Now would be like super eight is the best format. Every format after that, we like The Wonder Years told us this. We should have known.
00:33:08:01 – 00:33:10:28
Agent Palmer
Yeah. There’s nothing better.
00:33:10:32 – 00:33:12:20
Mikey Neumann
Listen to me, ace family.
00:33:12:26 – 00:33:26:47
Agent Palmer
If you can’t hear the flap, flap, flap when the video’s over. I’m sorry. Film is over. Then it doesn’t count, right? If. If you can’t crush a small child rolling in the projector into the classroom, it doesn’t count.
00:33:26:47 – 00:33:27:14
Mikey Neumann
It’s true.
00:33:27:18 – 00:33:30:01
Agent Palmer
These are. These are truths. Look it up.
00:33:30:01 – 00:33:33:59
Mikey Neumann
Can hear the chime. Turn the page.
00:33:34:04 – 00:33:37:30
Mikey Neumann
Right.
00:33:37:34 – 00:33:41:45
Agent Palmer
There’s a there’s a market, my friend. It’s untapped.
00:33:41:50 – 00:33:57:28
Mikey Neumann
And let’s let’s start a new podcast. It’s called Two Old Shits on the radio. And we just complained. We made a bubble tape was six feet of bubble gum for you. You didn’t have to share that with no one.
00:33:57:28 – 00:33:58:15
Agent Palmer
No.
00:33:58:17 – 00:34:00:41
Mikey Neumann
It was your bubble tape.
00:34:00:46 – 00:34:26:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I have a hard time looking forward. That’s what I’ll say, because I, I’m spending so much time trying to keep my head down. Right. Case in point, I know things I don’t want to just head down. Head down, read that book, watch that movie. Don’t look anywhere else. Stop looking side to side. What’s going on? I don’t know, it’s crazy.
00:34:26:08 – 00:34:45:29
Mikey Neumann
Yeah, I trying to determine what level I agree with that statement and what level. I disagree with that statement insofar that like as a YouTuber, I kind of want to destroy the status quo from time to time, though done in a positive manner. I guess I’m coming off as more negative than I usually do in this. I don’t.
00:34:45:44 – 00:34:47:01
Agent Palmer
I just call that you’re coming off.
00:34:47:01 – 00:34:53:38
Mikey Neumann
I’m trying to be realistic about the world, and right now it’s not going awesome, kids.
00:34:53:38 – 00:35:23:44
Agent Palmer
No it’s not, but and I want to say this, you have been one of the, in video form. You and a few other people have started to turn me into. Maybe I should write critical reviews again. Because I only write about things I like right now instead of taking someone to task because I’m like, there’s enough negativity out in the world.
00:35:23:49 – 00:35:31:08
Agent Palmer
But like, as you said, not that long ago, maybe, I don’t know, 15 minutes ago. The world needs a critique.
00:35:31:17 – 00:35:43:38
Mikey Neumann
We need some notes from time to time, I would say to give, to give the softest of critiques to the whole world. Maybe we could listen more. I don’t know,
00:35:43:43 – 00:35:51:24
Agent Palmer
I, but how much fun is listening? Will I or if if not.
00:35:51:29 – 00:36:01:14
Mikey Neumann
What if we what if we like auto tuned to everyone’s voice just to autotuned existence? And then it would be, like, fun to listen to each other.
00:36:01:19 – 00:36:02:35
Agent Palmer
Well, I was going to say, like.
00:36:02:40 – 00:36:05:31
Mikey Neumann
The t painting of the planet.
00:36:05:36 – 00:36:10:15
Agent Palmer
We we all like listening to ourselves though, so I feel like that’s there’s an asterisk there.
00:36:10:20 – 00:36:30:45
Mikey Neumann
I, I, I’ve noticed the thing about certainly not using this term for myself, but great YouTubers, the people that make like the absolute best stuff, they all hate the sound of their own voice. And then it is like imposter syndrome hits the people. It shouldn’t the worst.
00:36:30:50 – 00:36:51:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but don’t I mean, don’t we all have that starting out like I’m I’m approaching episode 100 and I can now edit just like it’s anybody else, like you and somebody else sent me an episode versus like, when I first started, I was like, oh, God, this guy again. Oh, there’s my guest. Oh crap, there I am again.
00:36:51:20 – 00:36:55:14
Agent Palmer
Like, I hated my own voice. And you just get numb to it.
00:36:55:19 – 00:36:56:30
Mikey Neumann
Right?
00:36:56:35 – 00:37:02:38
Agent Palmer
So, wait, are you telling me that those great YouTubers are getting editors and so.
00:37:02:38 – 00:37:36:35
Mikey Neumann
Like, personal I the spin on it as, as an a as a disabled American. Like when I record lines, I generally will record them a few times. And I’m very specific, like right now, in concentrating on enunciating and and like trying to it, it creates a very sort of piecemeal approach to, to what I do. But I think it the disservice is that I get a lot of comments like, why does it sound drunk?
00:37:36:35 – 00:37:49:34
Mikey Neumann
And, why do you say word weird? And it’s like, that was the best take. I’m so sorry. I can’t stand my own voice. I think I sound like, incapable, like.
00:37:49:39 – 00:37:54:02
Agent Palmer
I don’t, but I don’t know that that’s imposter syndrome. Do you know what I mean?
00:37:54:02 – 00:37:55:15
Mikey Neumann
Like, what would you call it?
00:37:55:15 – 00:38:19:05
Agent Palmer
I, I, I think it’s just an an I think the the sad truth is the only experi expression I have is that it’s, it’s like an out of body experience because you’re so used to hearing your voice in your own head, like literally in your own head, that when you start hearing it from speakers, it’s just out of body kind of deal.
00:38:19:05 – 00:38:36:05
Agent Palmer
Like it’s just like, oh man, I’m not hearing it within my own skull. Like, that’s just weird. So I think it’s definitely weird and you have to get used to it, but I don’t think it’s imposters. Imposter syndrome is why would anybody listen to me? Like, why would anybody watch my videos?
00:38:36:05 – 00:38:43:57
Mikey Neumann
Oh, that. Sorry. That’s the base level of all existence of a YouTuber. Everything is just sort of stacked on top of that.
00:38:43:57 – 00:38:45:24
Agent Palmer
Oh, okay. All right.
00:38:45:26 – 00:39:08:19
Mikey Neumann
Because no one is truly, like, anointed a professional in that space. No one is truly supposed to be there and supposed to have a voice and proven to be. So it’s sort of just the most competitive landscape in that in that wave of the world has ever seen. So I, I would assume everyone has it at some level.
00:39:08:25 – 00:39:32:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But I but I watch I watch probably more YouTube than I do terrestrial TV. If you discount sports, just take sports and throw it out the window. And like I watch YouTube more than I watch anything else, which means I’m watching content creators and everybody, well, they’re all everybody seems very honest. Hello. I mean, I’m, I’m very naive here.
00:39:32:22 – 00:39:54:24
Agent Palmer
Like, everybody seems very honest because everybody’s like, I needed a break, I took a break or what have you. But everybody seems to collaborate, which makes me feel like. Yeah, I’m sure that there’s hundreds of people that you ignore, but, like, you guys find some friends along the way, like, it doesn’t seem as cutthroat from the other side.
00:39:54:29 – 00:40:26:09
Mikey Neumann
I don’t I don’t think it like, I would say, YouTubers that that I’ve known in my time are incredibly supportive. I’m certainly not trying to imply the the opposite. All right. But I yeah, I, I think we all doubt ourselves because I think like Dan Olsen Folding ideas just released a two hour movie. About Decentraland and the concept of the metaverse.
00:40:26:09 – 00:40:39:21
Mikey Neumann
It is genius. It is like beyond measure. Good. And I’m sure he’s like, screw it up. No one’s going to like this because it’s just in their it’s a.
00:40:39:26 – 00:40:43:05
Agent Palmer
Is it part is it part of creating? Is that just because, I mean.
00:40:43:05 – 00:41:09:48
Mikey Neumann
Because no one’s supposed to be there like like Steven Spielberg got the opportunity to experience the like he went through the absolute hell of shooting jaws. Yeah. And then and they got the extreme high on the other side, and it just sort of been on this roller coaster of up and down since then. But he did have a moment of like, hey, you should be here.
00:41:09:53 – 00:41:30:08
Mikey Neumann
You are new to the film industry like you and George Lucas and and, you know, Martin Scorsese, he like, they got the victory that I don’t think YouTube, but because, like, you get a million views or whatever, and you just go back to your couch and you watch cheers like I. You know what I mean?
00:41:30:08 – 00:41:31:42
Agent Palmer
Like, that’s I mean, yeah.
00:41:31:44 – 00:41:38:13
Mikey Neumann
I mean, there’s not the same sort of like you’ve made it. You should be here. Here’s your Oscar.
00:41:38:18 – 00:41:57:15
Agent Palmer
Well, but at the same time, it’s weird, I think I think it goes back to the, the lack of credibility for a YouTuber, and it’s just because it’s still so new. Like you’re talking about Spielberg, which is, you know what, 1970 versus like.
00:41:57:19 – 00:42:04:21
Mikey Neumann
Every it was the first step in redefining an art form into the blockbuster nightmare that we’ve created today.
00:42:04:22 – 00:42:12:58
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s true, but film as a whole started in like the early 1900s. So like there were 60 years of the film industry, 60.
00:42:12:58 – 00:42:17:50
Mikey Neumann
Years of people being named as the people that should be in charge of that industry.
00:42:17:55 – 00:42:19:00
Agent Palmer
And yet and the.
00:42:19:02 – 00:42:21:02
Mikey Neumann
Boards of directors.
00:42:21:04 – 00:42:30:50
Agent Palmer
You know, like, but I’m saying like, but YouTube has been around for like half a minute compared to that. So we just haven’t established what that means. Do you know what I mean?
00:42:30:50 – 00:42:54:59
Mikey Neumann
Like kind of. Yeah. But it’s also a for profit platform. It’s not an art form. It’s simply a type of video sharing application like, all right, it’s Vimeo, it’s Twitch, it’s anything, it’s a it’s like an owned thing. So it’s not quite the same. They don’t they don’t want to mint stars in the same way that the film industry needs to.
00:42:54:59 – 00:42:55:47
Mikey Neumann
Right.
00:42:55:51 – 00:42:56:39
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:42:56:43 – 00:43:02:24
Mikey Neumann
That’s so when they meant stars, they’re Logan Paul. So what’s.
00:43:02:29 – 00:43:21:11
Agent Palmer
Well oh. But at the same time, I guess if you were independently wealthy, you could make art, right? Like, if you wanted to. I mean, it might get five views, not 5 million. Like, there’s going to be five people out there that are gonna be like, this is the best video ever, and no one’s going to believe the.
00:43:21:16 – 00:43:28:12
Mikey Neumann
If it wasn’t the best video ever, would it still be art? Because you use that word there is a qualifier. Is.
00:43:28:13 – 00:43:29:34
Agent Palmer
True. Well, but.
00:43:29:34 – 00:43:31:56
Mikey Neumann
But the hinges do the wall.
00:43:31:58 – 00:43:37:37
Agent Palmer
But the people that watch that video might think it’s the best video ever.
00:43:37:42 – 00:43:42:41
Mikey Neumann
It doesn’t matter. Doesn’t make it art. It could be the worst video ever. The best video ever. Both are art.
00:43:42:46 – 00:43:44:21
Agent Palmer
That’s fair, that’s fair.
00:43:44:32 – 00:43:51:09
Mikey Neumann
So art can be bad, is all I’m saying. Well, there are so many people in the world that are like our video games art.
00:43:51:18 – 00:43:53:53
Agent Palmer
Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. No. Yeah.
00:43:53:54 – 00:43:57:34
Mikey Neumann
And then the whole time, sorry, I.
00:43:57:39 – 00:44:02:38
Agent Palmer
I, I, I’m not you, I’m not one you have to convince on that one by the way. Like I, I, I.
00:44:02:40 – 00:44:14:20
Mikey Neumann
Don’t read anyone. I have a YouTube channel. I am God here. The voice of 300,000 subscribers strong.
00:44:14:24 – 00:44:24:06
Agent Palmer
Okay, so I want to ask because I, I’m not I’m not at that level, but I also stopped looking at numbers like, do you still look at numbers?
00:44:24:11 – 00:44:47:10
Mikey Neumann
We have lately just because we need to like to survive, we need to find a way to grow our YouTube audience to, you know, grow Patreon slash, grow Nebula. It’s like we also like every creator exists in multiple buckets now, and we have to figure out how to, like, sort of balance all those out. Sure. Growth makes it easier once you’re Mr. Beast.
00:44:47:15 – 00:44:49:27
Mikey Neumann
It’s not. It’s hard, you know.
00:44:49:32 – 00:44:50:25
Agent Palmer
That’s fair.
00:44:50:29 – 00:45:02:55
Mikey Neumann
You just uploaded a video called My Poop. And then 10 million views and you buy a new car. I determined to believe that’s how Mr. Beast looks like.
00:45:02:59 – 00:45:20:49
Agent Palmer
You do? You have, I mean, this is a dangerous question, and I apologize for prefacing it that way, but, like, do you have non YouTube ambition? Like non film. Like not non film. Do I mean it can all be under the same umbrella but like do you have non like do you want to make a movie. Do you want to make a TV series.
00:45:20:49 – 00:45:21:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:45:21:04 – 00:45:52:17
Mikey Neumann
Like yeah of course I, I, I, I know my friend Patrick Willems does as well and has been and I like it, it comes down to. I mean like this, this is a, whole can of worms because like. I was like, thinking about phrasing here. I think we can all have ambitions to do other stuff, but we can’t endanger the businesses that we already have.
00:45:52:17 – 00:45:56:40
Mikey Neumann
So, like, okay, I yeah, I don’t know.
00:45:56:45 – 00:46:01:06
Agent Palmer
No, no, because I, I think from, from a.
00:46:01:15 – 00:46:02:40
Mikey Neumann
Ambitions there for sure.
00:46:02:52 – 00:46:25:26
Agent Palmer
From, from a purely business perspective, it’s the reason that I respect creators that start that have an existing platform and channel like they have an existing Patreon, and then they start a Kickstarter for a movie. Right? Because I appreciate that they’re not trying to go, well, I’m getting these $5 for these regular videos from these people on a regular basis.
00:46:25:35 – 00:46:38:39
Agent Palmer
I’m just going to take that money and make this thing that they didn’t ask for. Right? So people start this new, this Kickstarter for the movie. It just separate, just separate things that.
00:46:38:39 – 00:47:04:24
Mikey Neumann
Just a but I guess, like my reaction from a business perspective is running a Kickstarter with, for example, the people you have at whichever company. Yeah. While making content to push like it’s, it’s just you keep like content creators tend to just add a full time job after full time job to their full time job.
00:47:04:24 – 00:47:05:40
Agent Palmer
That’s fair.
00:47:05:45 – 00:47:10:49
Mikey Neumann
And it’s it it’s tiring. I think you found me in a spicy mood today.
00:47:10:49 – 00:47:27:37
Agent Palmer
No, but I like it because I. I will say this. I because I’ve been to film Joy and deep dive and all that. Your channels. I don’t know what your release schedule is, because I just watched what was on it.
00:47:27:41 – 00:47:44:50
Mikey Neumann
Announce one. We we communicate with our patrons on Patreon and on discord, and we keep them well abreast of what’s happening. But I don’t care about informing Twitter, right?
00:47:44:50 – 00:47:59:54
Agent Palmer
Like that’s fine. But I like the idea that you have a quality control right? Because it’s not like, well, I, I’m sure you could put out a weekly video, but the quality would not be the same as putting out videos when they’re ready.
00:48:00:05 – 00:48:05:47
Mikey Neumann
They’re not always when they’re ready. They’re often like this step right before because you just run out of time, all right.
00:48:05:47 – 00:48:06:33
Agent Palmer
But it’s.
00:48:06:38 – 00:48:08:34
Mikey Neumann
All right. Yeah. No, I understand what you’re saying.
00:48:08:39 – 00:48:19:48
Agent Palmer
How much of that is. But all right. But, like, how often do you go back and videos look at your old videos and go like, oh, I could I like, do you always feel they’re unfinished when you put them out?
00:48:20:02 – 00:48:30:26
Mikey Neumann
I think you could ask the blank question to all YouTubers. How often do you go back to your old videos and hate yourself? And I would guess more than you think.
00:48:30:34 – 00:48:52:02
Agent Palmer
I don’t think I don’t. I think it’s content. I looked up because I couldn’t remember when I started the blog. I looked at my first blog post last week and I went, really? Yeah, like I don’t I don’t think it I think it’s just if you put something out on the internet, like go back and look at our first tweet and our first Facebook messages, we we would also be like, wait, what?
00:48:52:07 – 00:49:01:41
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s that’s the thing I said. I said that that doesn’t sound like me. Of course it that’s who we were with.
00:49:01:42 – 00:49:10:27
Mikey Neumann
Here’s how the blockchains can fix the problem, man. Let me tell you, car insurance will exist on the blockchain. Okay.
00:49:10:27 – 00:49:11:49
Agent Palmer
I’m listening.
00:49:11:53 – 00:49:17:42
Mikey Neumann
And now you buy you buy the the money on there and then you have it.
00:49:17:42 – 00:49:29:06
Agent Palmer
All right. But here’s my question. Do I buy the chain or the block buying both. Do I have to?
00:49:29:11 – 00:49:40:38
Agent Palmer
Do you hear from people about how inspirational you are as far as like, get off the damn floor and no one knows what they’re doing?
00:49:40:43 – 00:49:53:53
Mikey Neumann
Yes, I would say timing wise, like actually, because like get off the floor I made in 2018, finally able to talk about my it.
00:49:53:53 – 00:49:54:31
Agent Palmer
Happened.
00:49:54:36 – 00:50:39:35
Mikey Neumann
Less than great 2017. And then I just kind of like went underground and then Covid. So really only in the last two years I’ve started re interfacing with people. We just got back from Pax East. It was heart feeling like talking face to face with people that you have affected because like it’s not I don’t know, it’s it’s different because it’s like hundreds of people and it it helps keep you going when a lot of times I think you just check Twitter and it’s like, okay, five people telling me to end my own life.
00:50:39:35 – 00:50:43:33
Mikey Neumann
Go go go. Well, I don’t know, it’s weird, but.
00:50:43:38 – 00:50:56:05
Agent Palmer
You do have to realize that, like some of the people that are telling you, their your inspirational is buried in those other comments, but you just we kind of throw it, you throw it, we throw out, we throw out the baby with the bathwater.
00:50:56:09 – 00:51:06:25
Mikey Neumann
You I, I also think that. But I guess what I’m saying is when it’s when it’s actual human interaction where you’re looking someone else in the eye.
00:51:06:30 – 00:51:07:06
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah.
00:51:07:07 – 00:51:22:08
Mikey Neumann
You you feel it differently than just a sea of wild inanity. I YouTube comments gave the world nothing I think I am not.
00:51:22:21 – 00:51:24:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. Not breaking new ground with that one.
00:51:24:54 – 00:51:42:14
Mikey Neumann
That’s I don’t know it it it is nice to like put them in the world and have someone say this like got me off of this.
00:51:42:19 – 00:52:03:19
Agent Palmer
There is a lot in this episode I love. It’s a conversation that Mikey and I could have continued on, coming back to topics we graze by and moving on to new pastures as well. But let’s talk specifics. No one knows what they’re doing. This is a theme that is run through movies with Mikey, videos which you should be watching.
00:52:03:33 – 00:52:25:23
Agent Palmer
And perhaps, maybe we could listen more. We’re always so eager to get our point of view across. We’re mostly just listening for an opportunity to get our jabs in. This is not healthy to dialog or growth. We need to do better. Mikey was not only a guest on this show, he is one of the inspirations that I have for getting into video.
00:52:25:28 – 00:52:45:17
Agent Palmer
He is as authentic in his movies with Mikey and the other series on film, Joy, as he was on this episode, and it is his authenticity that I also hope to display a transparency from me to you, or in this case, from us to you, that makes the art a window into us instead of a wall between us.
00:52:45:22 – 00:53:07:12
Agent Palmer
And if you feel like you know both of us a little better, then perhaps we’re on the right track. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 98. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact myself and my guest, Mikey Neumann, in the show notes.
00:53:07:16 – 00:53:40:44
Agent Palmer
There you can find links to visit film Joy at youtube.com, slash film Joy, or see even more behind the scenes at Patreon.com slash Movies with Mikey, that’s Mickey. You can also support Mikey with some cool merch purchases at Cat homepage Dot Inc. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:53:40:49 – 00:53:48:46
Unknown
You.
00:53:48:51 – 00:54:06:45
Unknown
See?
00:54:06:49 – 00:54:16:54
Unknown
Me?
00:54:16:59 – 00:54:19:33
Agent Palmer
All right. Mikey, do you have one final question for me?
00:54:19:37 – 00:54:32:40
Mikey Neumann
What piece of entertainment, TV, film, whatever made you want to do that thing?
00:54:32:45 – 00:54:56:08
Agent Palmer
Well, what? There’s a there’s a couple. Right. And it goes through the years. So I think, like when I was 15 and picked up my first instrument, I wanted to be Duff from guns N roses. So it was appetite for destruction that was like, oh, I’m going to be a. And then and then that swiftly dovetailed into Aerosmith.
00:54:56:08 – 00:55:02:47
Agent Palmer
And I was like, I’m going to be a rock star. And that did not happen. And then,
00:55:02:52 – 00:55:08:47
Mikey Neumann
And then Sister Christian came out and I knew it was time.
00:55:08:52 – 00:55:23:22
Agent Palmer
And then and then it kind of shifted into, like it was the whole thing. I was going to go to college and learn, like, audio engineering. And then I had one good English teacher and I went, I’m going to be a writer.
00:55:23:36 – 00:55:26:31
Mikey Neumann
We all fell for that at some point or another. I’m sure.
00:55:26:33 – 00:55:28:40
Agent Palmer
I well, but I think it’s only this is.
00:55:28:40 – 00:55:30:34
Mikey Neumann
A real job. I believe you.
00:55:30:39 – 00:55:46:34
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I think it’s only those of us that had that one good English teacher, like because I, I’ve talked to people that are like, I never had a good English teacher. I’m like, I don’t know if I should be happy for you that you didn’t go down the right path or sad for you because you didn’t go down the writer.
00:55:46:43 – 00:55:50:49
Mikey Neumann
Like, pat you on the back. Do I curse your existence? I just don’t know.
00:55:50:49 – 00:56:22:03
Agent Palmer
And then, in college, I did an audio, 60 minute audio program as my final, senior project. And I was like, I guess this is my thing. And then that was well before podcasting. So I was like, no, no, thanks. And then, I just kind of went, all right, that’s fine. And then, not to be too self-serving here, but I, I watch you and I watch loading ready run.
00:56:22:03 – 00:56:42:24
Agent Palmer
And I go, I’ve got friends and cameras, like, right, why can’t I do that? And then I realized, like, but I’m the nobody’s got any time for that like that. That just ends up being like, well we hang out, we just want to hang out. Nobody wants to actually, film. This isn’t we’re not in high school anymore.
00:56:42:24 – 00:56:46:49
Agent Palmer
We’re like, somebody’s got a camcorder and we’re just going to film stuff and that’s it.
00:56:46:54 – 00:57:06:48
Mikey Neumann
Which I can easily say, having been around learn for this many years and have known them personally. Yeah, I understand the the issue of like, I just want to hang out. Let’s not work. Yeah, let’s turn the camera off. Like, let’s just talk. Yeah. Because that’s always there. Because they’re also talkative and delightful and beautiful.
00:57:06:53 – 00:57:30:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So it it’s kind of been those are like kind of the, the cliff notes of it. But I’m sure like in any given month there’s like that video or like that article. I still haven’t found the book that makes me want to do anything more than write an article. Like, I haven’t found the book that’s like, oh, I want to write a book.
00:57:30:53 – 00:57:56:27
Agent Palmer
But in full disclosure, I have helped produce an independent, documentary. So, like, I’ve had my hands behind, like, big projects and I’ve helped edit a book like, and I think that I, I’m all right being the man behind the chair. And I’m super cool with that, right. Like, just I don’t think it needs I think I’m at it.
00:57:56:27 – 00:58:09:09
Agent Palmer
And maybe it’s, it’s not maturity, but maybe it’s just like growing up that I’m like. I’m completely cool if, like, somebody like, you want to help me make a movie, I will will help you that it’s like.
00:58:09:13 – 00:58:25:23
Mikey Neumann
Yeah. So there’s no, like, character or movie that sticks out as like, because obviously I have one that defines like my entire existence in a hilarious way. So I because there has to be like something.
00:58:25:23 – 00:58:53:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, not not yet. I mean, it’s just these little pieces of, like, I’ve like, this is the first time we’ve met, but I’m pretty sure if we had met at any other point and we talked about, like, well, I have a podcast and I got a blog, maybe I’ll move into video. There’s probably no point since you’ve started film Joy, I’m going to try and put words in your mouth for a second that you’re going to say, don’t do it.
00:58:53:31 – 00:59:16:27
Agent Palmer
Like, I feel like there’s you’re going to say, try it like because I that it feels like everybody. And that’s what I tell people. So like why wouldn’t those every. So for me, I like when I see something that I like, I go maybe but it it goes back to I have a podcast and I have a blog.
00:59:16:32 – 00:59:26:26
Agent Palmer
Can I add another thing effectively without completely like derailing everything else? But I get inspired by a lot of stuff.
00:59:26:31 – 00:59:27:22
Mikey Neumann
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:27:27 – 00:59:30:21
Agent Palmer
I think you you almost have to.
00:59:30:21 – 01:00:02:02
Mikey Neumann
Yeah, I, I think in my head, frog from Chrono Trigger just lives their rent free every minute of every day of my life. Like you can see Borderlands and brothers in arms, like, start there. Because, like, story wise, there’s other characters in that game. And then I meet a cursed knight who is haunted by his past, unable to, like, live with it and and like, he’s still fighting the good fight.
01:00:02:02 – 01:00:17:42
Mikey Neumann
And I’m like, are we all frog? Oh, no. But like, knowing that, like, meeting people is the story, like, Chrono Trigger is not a series of events. It’s like a series of events starring these people.
01:00:17:42 – 01:00:18:33
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:00:18:38 – 01:00:40:29
Mikey Neumann
And you can choose and mix and match and do with, I don’t know, like that felt so, like, influential to me and so sticky as a, as a concept like games and game stories should be fun. And they should bring something to the table. I, I don’t know, weird like that. I think art should come from somewhere.
01:00:40:29 – 01:00:56:10
Agent Palmer
I well, I think art should come from somewhere, but I also think that, hot take a hot take of the of the episode. I think art should come from a fun place. I don’t think we all have to be van go. Like, yeah, we can be depressed, but art.
01:00:56:11 – 01:00:58:49
Mikey Neumann
Art can come from an unfun place.
01:00:58:51 – 01:00:59:58
Agent Palmer
Oh, I think it can.
01:01:00:00 – 01:01:12:37
Mikey Neumann
Cause like, trauma has informs my art personally. But I think it can be rewarding to like because it helps extract things from, you know, art helps express, but.
01:01:12:37 – 01:01:15:56
Agent Palmer
I don’t I don’t think that’s the end. All, I guess is what I’m saying, because I, I.
01:01:15:56 – 01:01:19:18
Mikey Neumann
Know only sadness, only tears.
01:01:19:23 – 01:01:46:00
Agent Palmer
I mean, so at the time of this recording, my cat died a couple weeks ago and I wrote probably the longest post I’ve written in a very long time, basically eulogizing him. Right. And there was a catharsis there, and it might still be the best thing I’ve written in a long time, but I try not to dwell on the fact that, like, I don’t want to.
01:01:46:05 – 01:01:51:37
Agent Palmer
I think there’s my impostor syndrome. I don’t want to have to be sad to write great art again.
01:01:51:41 – 01:02:16:54
Mikey Neumann
I can relate to this, though, because I think people think of the John Wick essay as like the best I’ve been, you know? Yeah. And that that was written while a family member of mine was in the hospital dying. And like, I was driving to my house and back to the hospital, back and forth and like the catharsis in that episode was my own.
01:02:17:08 – 01:02:33:21
Mikey Neumann
In an episode about loss. And like, sometimes it’s just the reality of who you’re willing to be. And any given time can be quite powerful. And I think people find truth there. And I think we need truth there, you know, like.
01:02:33:26 – 01:02:42:01
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I just, I just, I just wanted, I don’t know, I just want to believe that at one point I’ll be able to be happy and create that kind of thing as well.
01:02:42:10 – 01:03:08:11
Mikey Neumann
Yeah. No, I think that’s that’s good. I think it’s just different types of art. Sometimes we need satire for our own sadness to sort of process it in our own way, you know? Yeah. Like I, I when I’m sad when like, I’m just overcome with depression, which is a thing that happens from time to time, way less now that I’m medicated.
01:03:08:16 – 01:03:28:29
Mikey Neumann
I watch Fyre Festival documentaries. It’s not high art. It’s not anything but pure lunacy. But it makes me feel so good and so accomplished as a human being that at least I’m not this.
01:03:28:34 – 01:03:35:38
Agent Palmer
See, for for me, it’s, stepping back, stepping away from all the screens and listening to music.
01:03:35:43 – 01:03:37:46
Mikey Neumann
It’s always music, right?
01:03:37:51 – 01:03:49:42
Agent Palmer
It’s always music. And it’s just, I, I love that video. I love that movie. I love that podcast, I don’t care, I’m depressed. Give me my. Give me some music. That’s it.
01:03:49:46 – 01:03:52:38
Mikey Neumann
Throw Haagen-Dazs into my mouth.
01:03:52:43 – 01:04:06:23
Agent Palmer
Yeah, just just tunes I don’t I yeah, that that’s what I learned actually over the last decade is like just all that other content’s great, but you want to be happy. Listen to a little more music.
01:04:06:28 – 01:04:09:21
Mikey Neumann
Or if you want to be sad, listen to Arcade Fire.
01:04:09:26 – 01:04:14:54
Agent Palmer
I mean, there’s something to be said for automatic for the people.
01:04:14:59 – 01:04:17:40
Mikey Neumann
Straight like run deep cut. Let’s go.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).