Episode 133 features Jonathan Roth, he’s a drummer, writer, and a professional with more hats than titles, and his job description is basically a to do list, but he’s here to talk about being creatively fulfilled, writing, balance, playing music, listening to music, public radio and much much more.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
jonathanroth.co
Good Clean Fun on WDIY
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:03 – 00:00:25:05
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer. Dot com tragedy plus 80 years equals the ongoing relevance of the human comedy. Soccer against the enemy makes case for the sport’s importance. In 12 days in June, just released a new single since last episode, with more on the way to be sure. This is The Palmer Files episode 133 featuring Jonathan Roth. He’s a drummer, writer, and a professional with more hats than titles and a job description, which is basically a to do list.
00:00:25:14 – 00:01:05:51
Agent Palmer
But he’s here to talk about being creatively fulfilled, writing balance, playing music, listening to music, public radio, and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:05:56 – 00:01:07:42
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files.
00:01:07:43 – 00:01:33:39
Agent Palmer
I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 133rd episode is Jonathan Roth. He’s a drummer and a writer whose professional work is a kaleidoscope of writing, design, marketing and much more. We travel along some of his career paths while discussing what it’s like to lose a little creative edge, and how to keep the creative juices flowing for yourself, even if you don’t quite have the energy after whatever your day job happens to be.
00:01:33:44 – 00:01:53:58
Agent Palmer
All of that, plus trying to make it as a rock star. Poetry, public radio, and much, much more is coming your way shortly. But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all related ways to contact my guest, Jonathan and myself in the show notes there you can also find Jonathan’s website, Jonathan Rothko.
00:01:54:00 – 00:02:14:07
Agent Palmer
That’s Jonathan and wrote Co don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:14:12 – 00:02:24:38
Agent Palmer
Jonathan, I know you as a DJ on, our local NPR station, of which, you know, I guess full disclosure, I sit on the board.
00:02:24:43 – 00:02:24:59
Jonathan Roth
00:02:25:53 – 00:02:37:03
Agent Palmer
But I also know that professionally, you are a graphic designer and writer and printer of, of and probably many other hats as well.
00:02:37:07 – 00:02:37:39
Jonathan Roth
Right.
00:02:37:43 – 00:02:57:58
Agent Palmer
Is there is this what you wanted? I guess you don’t. I don’t meet a lot of graphic designers who set out to be graphic designers. Most of them set out to be artists and became like, it’s I don’t know. And I don’t not to get too long winded, but there’s that moment where it’s like, I can’t make money doing art or, graphic design.
00:02:58:03 – 00:03:02:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Is is that your story?
00:03:02:45 – 00:03:28:45
Jonathan Roth
In a way, yes, but a little different. So, I went to college for actually for creative writing. I got a degree in English creative writing. Got out of college, had no idea what I wanted to do. You know, everything I wanted to do was creative. And, I mean, what I really wanted to do was be a rockstar, but, you know, that didn’t pan out quite well.
00:03:28:45 – 00:03:31:34
Agent Palmer
Okay. Playing what?
00:03:31:38 – 00:03:39:23
Jonathan Roth
I play, I played drums mainly. Okay. I also play a little guitar, piano, bass as well. Okay.
00:03:39:28 – 00:04:00:43
Agent Palmer
Look, we all we all want it to be that it’s, I mean, I was in that camp as well. At that point, I think I grew out of it before college, though, I think I reached my peak. But were you still, like. I mean, I guess so. Creative writing. You’re creative person. You’re in college, but are you still, like, trying to be a rock star?
00:04:00:43 – 00:04:02:44
Agent Palmer
Like, are you still in bands and like.
00:04:02:49 – 00:04:24:58
Jonathan Roth
Yeah, yeah, I had a I had a band through college and then after college, I, I, you know, I wouldn’t say necessarily it wasn’t like that kid dream of, like, I want to be a rockstar. It was more like, I want to see how far this will go. Okay. You know, like, I want to see how far we can take this.
00:04:25:03 – 00:04:52:34
Jonathan Roth
And, you know, it’s, I, I was definitely, probably the most motivated to make, a go of it. Okay, I think than the rest of the band. And, you know, so that petered out, but I still, I mean, I’ve been I’ve still been in bands, ever since then, pretty much. I, except for maybe a few years here and there where I took breaks.
00:04:52:39 – 00:05:17:53
Jonathan Roth
I just, I can’t get away from it. Like, I just like to play and I, you know, I’ll. I’ll go, like, a few years and not be playing. And I get like, I just, I just miss it. I just miss, you know, you know, and I’m older now. I have no delusions of, like, you know, it the whole, like, I’m going to be huge.
00:05:17:53 – 00:05:22:37
Jonathan Roth
Like, that’s long gone. This is just to keep me sane at this point. I think just now when you.
00:05:22:37 – 00:05:26:52
Agent Palmer
Say play, are you talking, like, in your basement, or are you talking like, in front of people?
00:05:27:03 – 00:05:27:59
Jonathan Roth
In front of people?
00:05:27:59 – 00:05:28:43
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:05:28:48 – 00:05:54:36
Jonathan Roth
Yeah, yeah, I have to, in a band now called Ghost Rooms in the Valley. You know, we’ve been playing out for about a year and a half or so. And, yeah, I mean, I took before that, you know, I got around 20, 2015, I got married, quit the band I was in at that point, and I was like, I’m done.
00:05:54:41 – 00:06:31:40
Jonathan Roth
You know, we had a kid. I mean, the I’m done thing lasted for like 3 or 4 years. Okay? And then I was like, man, I really miss playing shows. And, so, you know, something else came together. It girl. Ghost wounds came together, and, you know, been doing that since. So, and, but, yeah, I, you know, that was always that was like my that was always my plan A, B and C, I think when I was like, growing up and then, you know, I went to college and.
00:06:31:40 – 00:06:44:23
Agent Palmer
So I guess why creative writing then? Why not like, I mean, there are any number of other artistic, degrees that you could have gotten, right? But creative writing is very specific.
00:06:44:28 – 00:07:12:08
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. So I, I always enjoyed writing. I mean, I wrote, like, even when I was like a little kid, like, I would write, you know, books, quote unquote, that were, you know, I mean, they were they’re not good. But, but I always enjoyed writing and reading and I always enjoyed that process. And so, but I went to college.
00:07:12:08 – 00:07:30:19
Jonathan Roth
I really had no idea what I was going to major in. I declared my major at, like, the last possible moment, like, and, you know, I, I took a bunch of different classes. I, you know, went to a liberal arts school, James Madison University down in Virginia. And I just took a bunch of different classes.
00:07:30:19 – 00:07:54:02
Jonathan Roth
You know, I thought about majoring in music journalism, communications, you name it. I probably thought about majoring in it at some point. And, I don’t know, I just finally was like, you know, I always have, like, loved writing and reading and have done it my whole life. And, you know, let’s, let’s just do that, like, let’s, you know, I want to major in that.
00:07:54:02 – 00:08:02:10
Jonathan Roth
And, so I did that, graduated had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do.
00:08:02:14 – 00:08:22:21
Agent Palmer
That’s the story of an arts degree. Yeah, yeah, it’s just kind of like, oh, yeah, what do I do now? And I, I, I only I’m only slightly better than you in my, in my choice of degree. Right. I was a, my AA was literally just in liberal arts because again I was like you whereas like I don’t know what I want.
00:08:22:23 – 00:08:43:05
Agent Palmer
Like how broad can I keep this education before I make a decision and so like after that they’re like, well, if you’re going to stay for four years, like you have to make a decision. And I was like, communications like it did not, you know, it’s just kind of like, all right, well, that’s that’s very broad. Like, yeah.
00:08:43:05 – 00:08:49:27
Agent Palmer
Tell me you don’t know what you want to do without telling me. You don’t know. All right, I get it. Okay? It’s fine.
00:08:49:32 – 00:09:15:23
Jonathan Roth
I mean, the other thing about, I think the other thing that kind of drew me to an English degree, too, is like, you know, it’s it’s very broad based. It’s like, if you get a degree in English, there’s a lot of different ways that you can go, you know, and, so, you know, I, I, I wanted to do, I wanted to do write it, you know, wanted to have a job that involves writing in some capacity.
00:09:15:27 – 00:09:34:06
Jonathan Roth
But I, you know, I bounced around a bunch of different jobs through, like, after I graduated up until I was 25. So, like, three years, I was just kind of all over the place doing temp jobs, doing a job, you know, it was.
00:09:34:06 – 00:09:54:20
Agent Palmer
It was here. Was it what was available or was it very much like a I want to try these things because I still like I mean, yeah, the way you describe it, you’ve got a degree and still no idea what’s next. Right. And I think that’s, for people that may be listening that knew what they wanted to do.
00:09:54:25 – 00:09:55:43
Jonathan Roth
Right.
00:09:55:48 – 00:10:12:08
Agent Palmer
Jonathan and I graduated and still didn’t know what. Like, we would still not have a degree chosen if we didn’t have to be forced to get one. So, like, were you was it very much, an availability thing? It was a trial and error thing.
00:10:12:13 – 00:10:35:57
Jonathan Roth
I would say a little bit of both. Okay. You know, I mean, there were some jobs that I took just because I needed a job. There were some jobs that I took that was like, well, let’s see if this works. You know, and then ended up, 2001, I got a job at, well, so, like, getting back to the band thing.
00:10:35:57 – 00:10:59:33
Jonathan Roth
So the band that I had in college or is around 2001, everyone else in the band sort of ended up in Washington, DC, and they started jamming together. Okay. And I was I was actually living here in Allentown, Pennsylvania at that time, and, it’s a whole like, yeah, they’re like, they’re like, hey, come down and jam with us again.
00:10:59:33 – 00:11:19:16
Jonathan Roth
You know, like the like the let’s get the band back together. Okay. Conversation. So it ended up I was like driving. I ended up basically driving down to DC like almost every other weekend to jam with them and then coming back and going to work all week, you know? And,
00:11:19:21 – 00:11:45:17
Agent Palmer
It’s a young person’s game, by the way, like, yeah, I mean, like, I, I am, you know, we are probably double that age at this point. And the idea of working a job and then getting anywhere for a weekend that’s more than an hour away and coming back more. I mean, it’s the look the drive’s probably more like 4 or 5 hours, but like anything over one and I’m like, oh, that sounds hawt.
00:11:45:22 – 00:11:47:03
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it’s a young man’s game, I guess.
00:11:47:04 – 00:11:59:14
Jonathan Roth
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, it was. I like now thinking about it. I’m just like, how did I ever do that? But, lack of sleep, right? Yeah. Well, I guess.
00:11:59:15 – 00:12:01:55
Agent Palmer
I guess you’re good at playing the drums while sleeping, because.
00:12:01:55 – 00:12:31:12
Jonathan Roth
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. So it kind of got to the point where I was like, okay, this is ridiculous. And, a friend of mine from college was another friend of mine from college, was in DC and had an opening at his job for he worked he was a graphic or. No, he was sorry. He was an editor, at, this place called the Corporate Executive Board, which no longer exists.
00:12:31:17 – 00:12:59:31
Jonathan Roth
But it was basically like, business to business best practice research. And, so he was like, hey, there’s a job opening for an administrative assistant here in the graphic design department. And, you know, I was like, well, I can do that. You know, I had I’ve been a lot of my jobs at that point have been like admin assistant jobs.
00:12:59:31 – 00:13:35:12
Jonathan Roth
So, you know, kind of familiar with doing that kind of stuff. And so, so I was like, all right, I’ll, you know, that sounds like a deal. I’ll apply to that and ended up getting the job, and I should, I should before I go further, I should mention that, so I always liked graphic design and I was always interested in graphic design, and particularly at this point where the web was, you know, you’re, you’re kind of going from like the GeoCities, angelfish, whatever.
00:13:35:24 – 00:13:46:08
Jonathan Roth
Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, version of the web into something that was a little more interesting and more,
00:13:46:12 – 00:13:48:19
Agent Palmer
Did you did you have a GeoCities?
00:13:48:24 – 00:14:18:25
Jonathan Roth
I did not, I did actually, I did actually get a certificate. I, you know, while I was tossing around trying to figure out what the heck I was doing, I did get a webmasters certificate. Okay. But, but, I mean, the I, it was actually like that, like, kind of at that early web’s, circa, like 20 plus years ago where I was like, you know, design like web design is really interesting.
00:14:18:25 – 00:14:47:03
Jonathan Roth
And, and design in general is really interesting. But the thing was, is I suck at drawing and so and I was never I was never talented artistically in a traditional way, you know, like, I, I didn’t ever think much of my drawing. I didn’t think much of my abilities there. I it never occurred, like graphic design really like never occurred to me at that point.
00:14:47:03 – 00:15:09:35
Jonathan Roth
And, so I, I went down to the I took this job, I went down to the DC, I was an administrative associate for maybe like a year and a graphic design job opened up. And, my boss was like, hey, do you want apply for this job? And I was like, well, yeah, I’d like to do it.
00:15:09:35 – 00:15:28:03
Jonathan Roth
But I was like, I’m not a graphic designer. He’s like, oh, don’t worry about it will train you. So that’s like, okay, so so I got the job and got, you know, promotion, whatever you want to say. And, and basically just learned graphic design on the job.
00:15:28:08 – 00:15:34:53
Agent Palmer
Okay. And does it still hold true, like, are you still kind of around or in graphic design all these years later?
00:15:34:58 – 00:16:00:23
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. So my, my job now is basically kind of a hybrid of graphic design and writing. Okay. So I, I work at, automotive aftermarket manufacturer. I do basically the main part of my I mean, there’s lots of stuff that I do, but the main part of my job is creating instructions and tech notes for the parts that we sell.
00:16:00:23 – 00:16:34:50
Agent Palmer
So it’s very much a hybrid of the graphic design, the layout, but also the writing. So you kind of after all this time you found that sweet spot. Yeah. That’s like, all right, I get it, I get it now. I guess I want to time travel for a moment. If I go back to you in college and I explain to you the job you currently have, is there any way you’re interested in it, or is it do you need I mean, a lot of people need it, but do you need the ebbs and flows to get there?
00:16:34:54 – 00:16:37:42
Jonathan Roth
00:16:37:47 – 00:16:39:16
Jonathan Roth
I think.
00:16:39:21 – 00:16:40:10
Agent Palmer
00:16:40:14 – 00:17:05:14
Jonathan Roth
I mean, I think, my first thought would be like, okay, well, I could think of things I’d read, you know, like at college. Me you would have said something along the lines of, like, I could think of things. Other things I’d rather do. Okay, but that doesn’t sound too bad. I think I think probably college me would understand the writing part.
00:17:05:14 – 00:17:39:01
Jonathan Roth
The graphic design would be like, part would be like, wait, what am I doing? Yeah, like I’m doing what now? Like, I think that would confuse the heck out of me. But, but yeah, it’s it’s, it’s it’s weird how, like, life just kind of like, finds a way sometimes it’s like, you know, like, now I like, look at my job and I’m like, oh, this is like, the perfect combination of, like, you know, the writing that I’ve always enjoyed and, and graphic design, which I, which I also enjoy, like combined together.
00:17:39:01 – 00:17:39:43
Jonathan Roth
00:17:39:48 – 00:17:58:57
Agent Palmer
Do you still I mean, I guess where’s the writing in all of this? Like, are you still because obviously and you know, we talked a little bit about it. You’ve been playing drums in save for that little time off this whole time. Were you writing this whole time as well, like, for yourself? Obviously not. Just like, you know.
00:17:59:02 – 00:18:25:57
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. I’m. I’m always, I’m always writing. There’s, there’s times where I’m kind of more active with it than others. I kind of go in phases, but yeah, overall, I’ve been I’ve been writing, I mean, I did, I, you know, obviously for my creative writing degree, I wrote poems, short stories, stuff like that. I’ve kind of continued doing that off and on since then.
00:18:26:02 – 00:18:35:49
Jonathan Roth
I have a novel that’s been in progress for a really long time. Did you,
00:18:35:54 – 00:18:39:35
Agent Palmer
Did you finish it and you’re editing it or. It’s still in progress?
00:18:39:37 – 00:18:50:01
Jonathan Roth
It’s still in progress. Okay. Yeah, it’s it’s a very slow go. I also have I also have a few others that I kind of started in the meantime because I got sick at work. No. That’s fair.
00:18:50:06 – 00:19:02:32
Agent Palmer
Yeah. That’s fair. I mean, look, there’s a lot of examples of books that take a very long time. And when it’s not your full time gig, they take even longer.
00:19:02:45 – 00:19:25:33
Jonathan Roth
Well, that’s and that’s the thing. And it’s like, it’s it’s, you know. Yeah, I just, I never, you know, I always like that was kind of the thing to when I was in college, I was like, oh, I’ll write for myself when I’m not working. And then I’ll like, write, be writing all these books and then I’ll, you know, become a famous novelist and I can quit my day job.
00:19:25:33 – 00:19:45:27
Jonathan Roth
Well, I didn’t realize how little interest you have. And, you know, doing, like, doing more work after you’ve been working all day and, like, that’s very fatigue a lot, you know, like, especially when you’re already kind of doing something creative or you’re involved in creative work, you don’t.
00:19:45:27 – 00:20:18:33
Agent Palmer
Need that anymore because you already even though it’s work. Yeah, it’s still a bit of a creative outlet. So you’re like, you come home and you’re like, I don’t feel like I need to do some writing. Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. I get it completely because it’s one of those weird things where my, my biggest, like, I started my blog when I wasn’t really being creatively fulfilled at work.
00:20:18:42 – 00:20:19:45
Jonathan Roth
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:19:50 – 00:20:38:52
Agent Palmer
It became a slog when that job shifted a bit and it was a little more creative, and it was like, all right, I’ve just spent, you know, maybe three of my eight hours at the office being creative. And then I come home and I’m like, I really feel like writing. Yeah. And that’s why I like the early days of the blog.
00:20:38:52 – 00:21:08:06
Agent Palmer
You’re very much like, not a weekly thing or even twice weekly. It was just like, when I’ll write when I feel like it. And it wasn’t until like at a certain point I was like, I need to take this seriously if anybody else is going to write, but I kind of envy you a little bit in that when you’re not putting it publicly, you know, because I made the decision to start a blog in order to get back into writing as opposed to just writing.
00:21:08:10 – 00:21:25:32
Agent Palmer
Right? Which means when I decided to take it seriously, it was like, all right, well, I’ll put it out every Thursday. Yeah. And now I have to have something every Thursday. Whereas, like, sometimes that’s good, sometimes that’s bad. But it’s also like, all right, well, now it’s a little bit less for me.
00:21:25:37 – 00:22:09:42
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. I also I also as part of my job I write for our company blog, which is, you know, because of what we do, it’s basically about shops, about, repairing cars, you know, that kind of stuff. So, so there’s also so I’m also, you know, in addition to writing and designing the instructions and tech notes, I’m also writing blog posts, you know, so it’s just and yeah, and I, I really underestimated how, you know, after working eight hour day on Monday, you just want to watch Monday Night Football and not like spend more time at a computer writing, you know, like, so.
00:22:09:44 – 00:22:17:01
Agent Palmer
Do you still, well, I mean, when you write for you, is it on a computer? You’re not. You’re not handwriting it.
00:22:17:06 – 00:22:28:39
Jonathan Roth
I, yeah, it’s, it’s on a computer. Okay. It’s just it’s just faster for me, and it’s easier to edit on the fly. You know, and, I.
00:22:28:39 – 00:22:35:38
Agent Palmer
Still go back. I still do the times. What? I will still get out of notepad, and write.
00:22:35:43 – 00:22:58:16
Jonathan Roth
So I’ve kept sort of writing journals like, or ever since, like, since college. And I mean, they were, you know, they started off being real, like actual journals like that. I would literally write in, now I just and this is something I always do, and I always have like a pad of paper in my car, just in case.
00:22:58:16 – 00:23:21:49
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. Yeah. Like, and I mean, I have my commute is like 45 minutes to an hour each way right now. So I have, you know, enough time that my mind starts going. And I think, ooh, that’s a good idea. And I have to jot something down, you know, but I, I literally have a a file in my Google Drive that’s called.
00:23:21:50 – 00:23:49:14
Jonathan Roth
Just called notebook. It’s, it’s that it takes the place of the old school, like writing out in a notebook and just I just type my ideas in there, and then, you know, pull from that. Like, when I, you know, every once in a while I go through that and I see, like, oh, you know, I, I wrote this thing here, and then I wrote this thing here, and I wrote this thing here, and they all kind of connect.
00:23:49:21 – 00:23:52:59
Jonathan Roth
Okay, let’s throw them together and see what, where that goes. Yeah.
00:23:52:59 – 00:24:25:15
Agent Palmer
So I, I need to applaud you right now because, I have to, like, whip myself into shape and be like, oh, by the way, all those physical and digital notes, there may be some good ideas in there and you should probably look at them, but I, I have to consciously make that decision like I do not go back on a like I go back about twice a year, sometimes only once a year where like, I should go back and look, this is messy, right?
00:24:25:21 – 00:24:58:13
Agent Palmer
Like I have a, like, I, I, I draft all of my blog posts in this single document. And then obviously when they get posted, they get deleted out of the document. But it also means anything that started and incomplete stays in that document, and then it becomes, like 75, maybe 125 page document, like, oh, this, that and the other thing, and maybe I haven’t been on page 100 in a while and what’s down there that I haven’t and I, I am genuinely notoriously bad at going back.
00:24:58:13 – 00:25:12:02
Agent Palmer
It’s only when it creeps above triple digits in page count that I’m like, what am I feeling back? So I, I’m, I’m kind of envious that you just go. You just open up the folder and look at it like that.
00:25:12:03 – 00:25:44:32
Jonathan Roth
So, so I kind of so partially I kind of had to because so in addition to that, I also like there will also be times where I just get like like maybe not full fledged ideas, but like a definite theme or like or a solid like this is a poem. Okay. Like, it may not be, it’s not in its final state, but it’s it’s, it’s a single singular idea that I want to explore in, you know, x amount of space.
00:25:44:37 – 00:26:00:11
Jonathan Roth
But I was saying, I kind of was forced to because. So the, the band that I’m in now, I’m actually I’m actually also singing some of the time, a singing drummer, which, yes, is not.
00:26:00:16 – 00:26:07:06
Agent Palmer
Le’Veon Bell was a great singer playing the drums. I’m not. Yeah it happens.
00:26:07:11 – 00:26:29:24
Jonathan Roth
So it was and and but you know no one was you know we were writing the music. No one was writing lyrics. And so you know, as I was like, well, okay, I have to sing these songs and I guess I’m gonna have to write the lyrics. Well, I have this whole document full of ideas. Okay.
00:26:29:29 – 00:26:47:27
Jonathan Roth
And so I just started, you know, and some of them were actually some of them were started off as a poem. Some of them were already like written poems that I just was like, oh, you know, and it was kind of like a mix and match thing. Like I would listen to the song like, you know, we did cell phone recordings of songs and stuff like that.
00:26:47:31 – 00:27:10:54
Jonathan Roth
I would listen to the song and kind of like sing the poem along with it and be like, you know, and kind of be like, does it work or does it not, you know, and does it fit? And so so it was. Yeah. I mean, I was kind of like I was kind of forced to dig into that, that notebook and, and make use of it because I had to write some song lyrics.
00:27:10:54 – 00:27:11:41
Jonathan Roth
So.
00:27:11:46 – 00:27:32:22
Agent Palmer
I mean, I will also give you a lot of credit for this. I can’t remember the last time I wrote a poem. Yeah, like I’ve written a few short stories and I’ve written, you know, maybe I’ve done a, you know, non the things that don’t end up on the blog, but I can’t remember the last time I wrote a poem.
00:27:32:27 – 00:27:57:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it’s just a, it’s a meta I like. I know I I’ll say I don’t think I grew out of it, but my brain doesn’t write that way anymore. Yeah. And I almost think that, like, I have to force my way back in because my brain doesn’t think that way anymore. Right. Like, I, I think I now think in sentences and paragraphs and not in, phrases and stanzas.
00:27:57:18 – 00:28:13:49
Agent Palmer
It’s just not here anymore. Like, was that a thing where, you know, when you’re jotting stuff down, you’re still allowing yourself to jot down, like a stanza of a poem and stuff. It’s not just always writing.
00:28:13:54 – 00:28:41:19
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, a lot like literally some of the stuff in my notebook is just a phrase or like, you know, like it’s just like. Or maybe it could be like a line of a poem, or something. It it’s, it’s literally just anything that comes to me where I’m like, ooh, that’s a really cool way of like of expressing that.
00:28:41:19 – 00:28:59:02
Jonathan Roth
Or it’s a, it’s a cool concept or like, or whatever the case may be. And, yeah, I, I just, I do like poetry. And I mean, to be fair, I’m like very much in the free verse, like, you know, Allen Ginsberg beat poetry kind of.
00:28:59:15 – 00:29:22:16
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Hey, there’s nothing wrong with it. I, I could I think I would have more of a struggle writing any kind of poem, even if it was free verse. Yeah. And I would if you were to be like, write a 1000 word essay on X, it’s like, all right, I’ll take it. Or write, like a 12 line poem, like that’s it.
00:29:22:16 – 00:29:41:43
Agent Palmer
The no, no structure, just 12 lines. And I’d be like, can I have the thousand words, please? Like, I think that’s where I’m at right now. And that’s kind of why I’m like, I’m a little jealous because, like, it’s a skill set. It’s probably like riding a bike, but I haven’t done it in a very long, long, long time.
00:29:41:43 – 00:29:54:13
Agent Palmer
I’ll probably fall over like, it’s just it’s just going to be like, I’m going to put this period here. It’s like, no, no, you don’t. It’s a poem. You don’t have to do that. Like, but I usually put a period here, like that’s, it’s the way I write now.
00:29:54:18 – 00:30:25:19
Jonathan Roth
I just yeah to for me it’s and I’ve written, you know a few like some short stories. Yeah. Some poems and, and you know, a lot of it’s really just like, pretty early in the process, I figure out, like, what is this going to be? Because I, I it’s the concept of like, you know, what I’m trying to express or what I’m trying to say is just from the outset kind of steering me towards, okay, this is more of a poem.
00:30:25:19 – 00:30:47:18
Jonathan Roth
This is more of a short story. I don’t think, I’m trying to think if there’s ever been a time where I was like, started out saying, oh, this is going to be a short story, and it ended up being a poem, or vice versa. I don’t think that’s ever really happened. I mean, you know, there’s definitely stuff that started out as a poem became a song because it, you know, the very similar.
00:30:47:22 – 00:30:47:39
Jonathan Roth
That’s.
00:30:47:39 – 00:30:49:09
Agent Palmer
True.
00:30:49:14 – 00:31:07:56
Jonathan Roth
So but yeah, like, I, and I have, I mean, I, I’ve toyed with the idea lately of kind of collecting the poems and short stories that I’m most fond of and maybe self-publishing them, or something to that, you know, so, I.
00:31:07:56 – 00:31:14:47
Agent Palmer
Mean, so I, so I have a friend whose first book of poetry I helped edit and self-publish.
00:31:14:51 – 00:31:15:11
Jonathan Roth
00:31:15:11 – 00:31:39:54
Agent Palmer
Oh, God. Ten, 15 years ago now and I, I only bring it up because a lot of those poems that went into that book, he was sharing. Right. Like this was in kind of that time when you had that first job in that early just after the year 2000, where he’s writing poems, however, he’s writing them probably in a notebook.
00:31:39:58 – 00:31:57:55
Agent Palmer
And then he used to type them out and email them to us like he was writing for himself. But he also really wanted to share it. So the idea of putting it together in a book wasn’t, I don’t want to say scary, but it wasn’t scary because he had been sharing it with not just me, but like there was a group of us he would send them to.
00:31:57:55 – 00:32:18:21
Agent Palmer
Right? Where are you sharing these? Are you keeping them for yourself or you, you know, and I only ask because it it changes the way we all think about, you know, the publishing aspect of it because this will be the first time anybody’s seen it versus I’ve been sharing it all along.
00:32:18:25 – 00:32:40:08
Jonathan Roth
Right. So way back. Yeah. Way back. You know, 20 some years ago, even later, I, I had a website, where I post, I put up some poems and short stories and stuff like that. So, I mean, it was I, you know, I don’t, I don’t, I mean, I really didn’t have any visitors aside probably from my friends and stuff like that.
00:32:40:13 – 00:33:12:35
Jonathan Roth
You know, some of the stuff goes back to college where I shared that, you know, in classes and readings. I’ve, I, I’ve done a reading here or there since college. You know, I’ve shared it that way. So it’s, it’s they’ve been shared like in some aspects, some of my plan at some point coming out of college was, oh, I’m going to submit my poems and all this kind of stuff to like literary, literary journals and stuff or magazines, and I’m going to get published that way.
00:33:12:35 – 00:33:32:04
Jonathan Roth
It start getting published that way is of a that’s a and I never really I never really went that far with it, I think because a little bit because I was, I don’t know, a bit, a bit concerned about rejection and stuff like that and just not wanting, I don’t know, like it’s one thing to share it with my friends.
00:33:32:04 – 00:33:49:56
Jonathan Roth
It’s another thing to like, submit to like literature. And also I do have a friend who who has I mean, he is a he is a legit poet like she writes all the time. And he was he’s, you know, submitted to literary journals and has self-published numerous books.
00:33:50:01 – 00:34:26:20
Agent Palmer
I do all I hear is like a little bit of like imposter syndrome is one. But I will also say in that era, because I wrote for the college newspaper. Yeah. And very much disappointed my advisor when I was like, yeah, but I’m not going to do this for real. And, you know, I you, when you are outside of the higher education environment and you’re thinking about submitting, even ignoring the idea of rejection and the concept of rejection, it’s overwhelming.
00:34:26:26 – 00:34:50:06
Agent Palmer
It’s like, oh, I want to submit a poem. An essay. Yeah. Okay, here’s, 100,000 possible things that you could submit to and they all like, and you start reading it, it’s like, well, but if you get accepted by this one, it can only be in this one. Yeah. And then it for the uninitiated, which is what you and I definitely were.
00:34:50:17 – 00:34:52:46
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It’s extremely overwhelming.
00:34:52:59 – 00:34:53:24
Jonathan Roth
Oh yeah.
00:34:53:36 – 00:35:21:11
Agent Palmer
And it the it’s just like all right. The moments passed. That’s that’s way more work than just, Hey, mate. Yeah. Because look, if you’ve never done it, the concept in your head of writing a thing and just being like, hey, Mr. publisher of magazine, newspaper or book or anthology, would you like to publish this? Yeah, that’s not the reality.
00:35:21:11 – 00:35:31:50
Agent Palmer
The reality even way back when, when there were probably still people reading submissions. Very still very like, just overwhelming completely.
00:35:31:55 – 00:35:52:01
Jonathan Roth
And also, you know, like a lot of you, a lot of the way I do things is really informed by like, the, the DIY, like punk spirit. And it’s like, you know, having, having grown up listening to that stuff and, and, and to me, it’s just like, you know.
00:35:52:12 – 00:36:11:47
Agent Palmer
Like, I mean, you learned a graphic design job on the job, like, I don’t know if you can get any more. You’re you’re in half of a good portion of your professional career is DIY and like and I, I so you took the ethos and you when you went corporate with it and it’s still worked. That’s pretty impressive.
00:36:11:52 – 00:36:35:14
Jonathan Roth
So yeah. But like I mean like the whole like self-publishing thing, it’s like that appeals to me more like to me that’s like kind of in that vein, in that spirit, instead of like instead of shopping things around to literary journals and saying, like, here, please accept me. Like, no, I don’t need to do that. I’m just going to self-publish a book.
00:36:35:14 – 00:36:56:15
Jonathan Roth
Like, you know, it’s just like a band putting out their own record, like, and you know who, like, maybe it’ll just be a few of my friends who end up buying it and that’s it. And that’s totally fine. Like, I just, I created this, I want to put it out into the world in my way, you know, like.
00:36:56:26 – 00:37:01:17
Agent Palmer
I get it. I also want to tell you, I really hope you do this because.
00:37:01:22 – 00:37:02:06
Jonathan Roth
The.
00:37:02:11 – 00:37:22:35
Agent Palmer
The the the the feeling you have of writing these pretty good. The and I’ll admit, it doesn’t matter if it’s a post. I’m sure it’s the same with you for a poem or a or a song when you finish. Great. Yeah, but you know what? Looking over at your shelf and seeing your own book on your show. Very different success story.
00:37:22:46 – 00:37:48:12
Agent Palmer
I don’t think there’s a like, I’ve only been an editor on a book that’s on a shelf. Right. And that felt amazing. So, you know, it’s just slightly different. And I know you and I you’re talking in 2024, right? The world has gone digital and, hey, can I get your e-book? But if you’re if you are the writer or even editor.
00:37:48:16 – 00:38:01:37
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Holding the book in your hand, right is a victory so much beyond anything you’ve ever felt. And so I hope you get to feel that because it is amazing.
00:38:01:42 – 00:38:31:49
Jonathan Roth
And it is and it is like kind of the same as, you know, being in a band and, and putting out an LP like a vinyl LP or, you know, back in the day, a CD or a cassette or whatever, like, yeah, physically having that in your hands and saying, like, we made this, you know, it is, it’s just something cool like, and, you know, going back to like my work at CB, it was like that was that was kind of the same thing.
00:38:31:49 – 00:38:55:24
Jonathan Roth
There was like, so we, you know, we would I would write in or not write, but I would design the research that we did and put it into these, what we called studies, which were basically just book research books. And I still remember like the first book that I designed when it came back and I held it in my hand and was like, I made this, you.
00:38:55:30 – 00:38:56:44
Agent Palmer
Know, like, I still have it.
00:38:56:49 – 00:38:57:31
Jonathan Roth
Yes, I do.
00:38:57:32 – 00:38:58:14
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:38:58:19 – 00:39:19:14
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. I have a bunch. I actually have pretty much all of them, I think I worked on when I was there, still and but yeah, it was like it was like, oh, wow, this is cool. You know, like. And it was cool getting to that point because it was like, okay, I’m doing something creative. I mean, I mean, I’m in a corporate, like, let’s be fair, I’m in a corporate environment.
00:39:19:14 – 00:39:51:52
Jonathan Roth
I have like, there’s a very strict like, this is what we do. This is what we don’t do. I can’t just, you know, go off the reservation or anything like that, but like, but at the same time, it’s like I’m being creative within and at a corporate environment and I’m, I’m creating something that is physical in the at the end result that I can hold in my hand and say, like my creative pursuit, like, went into this, you know, which was like, that’s and that’s kind of what I realized.
00:39:51:52 – 00:40:05:54
Jonathan Roth
Like, you know, it didn’t really matter so much exactly what I was doing for a job, per se. I just wanted to be doing something creative and have something at the end of the day that I could say, I, I made this, you know, like.
00:40:06:05 – 00:40:36:46
Agent Palmer
Okay, so, so you’ve you found your day job niche. Yeah. And you have a family. Yeah. And you’re writing in your free time and you’re playing in bands. Yeah. Whenever you get the chance. Yeah, but you also take the time to deejay on a local NPR station, right? Yeah. And so there’s a lot of things going on in your life before you say, I think I also want to be a DJ.
00:40:36:55 – 00:40:38:16
Jonathan Roth
Yeah.
00:40:38:21 – 00:41:01:16
Agent Palmer
And I look, I applaud you for it. Like volunteers. Like you are. What make the station the station, but also, I guess a pointed question, which is like, what? Where does that come from? I understand you’re musically inclined. You play in bands, but there’s a very different kind of feel to it when you go like, oh, but I want to be on the radio.
00:41:01:20 – 00:41:02:28
Agent Palmer
Give me that microphone.
00:41:02:32 – 00:41:42:01
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. So, well, so I, when I, when I mean, like one of the things I got involved with when I went to JMU was and I always wanted to, when I was, when I was in high school, I started getting turned on to, college radio and in the Valley, especially at that time, I always said, like, the valley was like the greatest place for college radio, for being at least like in the, in the 90s up until like more recently, because there’s WMU age, there, you know, was XlVi, there was 12 R I mean, LV and XlVi still exists, just only on the internet now.
00:41:42:01 – 00:42:13:07
Jonathan Roth
But, you know, back back then it would, you know, they were terrestrial and like, it was right after, you know, of course, it was like right after Nirvana happened and all that. So, you know, stuff came out and then, I was, you know, I mean, Nirvana’s Nirvana just totally, like, changed my I mean, it was like, I think with a lot of people, it just totally changed my musical, touchstones and like, and my whole just everything, just everything that I listen to.
00:42:13:07 – 00:42:37:09
Jonathan Roth
And so and then along with that was like, you know, it was like, oh, well, this stuff is on college radio. And, and, you know, college radio was where you could hear Nirvana before. Nevermind. You know, that’s where like, and all that kind of stuff. And so once I got into that, then I, when I was in high school, I was like, oh, I should start listening to college radio and I would, I always and I always loved it.
00:42:37:09 – 00:42:54:25
Jonathan Roth
I mean, I’ve always loved radio also and, and you know, I mean, back in the day, I would just, you know, do the thing in the 80s where you had the, the, the boombox with the radio going and the cassette player and you just when you hear the song start that you like, you start recording it, you know.
00:42:54:32 – 00:43:20:05
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. You know how, how we had music discovery and, and, and that kind of stuff before Spotify and the internet and everything. But yeah, like, you know, I was just always was, I just always had a, a love for radio and, and, especially college radio, like I said, when I, I mean, I would, I would be doing homework in high school listening to like, WMUR.
00:43:20:17 – 00:43:38:00
Jonathan Roth
And there’s one show in particular that was I really liked, and I would literally write down every song she played as like, okay. And, and then like star, the ones that I’m like, oh, I got to go check this out, you know, like, so it was like, yeah, I mean, that was, that was kind of the start of it.
00:43:38:00 – 00:44:03:23
Jonathan Roth
And when I, I knew when I got wherever I ended up going to college, I wanted their I wanted them to. I wanted a college radio station there because I knew I wanted to get involved in it, and, I did. I got involved in my, jam at James Madison University. My freshman year ended up being music director for two years there and program director for my senior year.
00:44:03:26 – 00:44:04:32
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:44:04:36 – 00:44:47:58
Jonathan Roth
And then, you know, since then, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve dabbled in it. I that. Well, I actually worked at NPR for a time in D.C.. Not in a on air position or anything like that. I was actually just answering phones, but, you know, it was still in PR, and then, you know, did, did some summer break shows on WMUR when I was in the area, I, you know, have some I have a couple friends who still do shows over there and, but yeah, like when I came back for to Allentown from DC around 2010, you know, it was like I didn’t have a job, I didn’t have
00:44:47:58 – 00:45:05:23
Jonathan Roth
a job lined up or anything. It was just a pure like, I’m just, you know, I’m done with DC. I’m tired of it. I’m moving back to Pennsylvania and, didn’t like. So I didn’t have anything. I didn’t have a job and everything lined up. I was like, I gotta I, I’m going to drive myself nuts if I don’t do something.
00:45:05:23 – 00:45:34:29
Jonathan Roth
So, I’ve known Neil. Actually, we we used when I was a kid. I used to do, theater with him, back in the day. So I’ve known him. I’ve known Neil for, like, gosh, like 30 some years. And I knew he I knew he was at the DIY. And so just when I got back, just stopped by there and said, hey, I’m back in town.
00:45:34:29 – 00:46:08:07
Jonathan Roth
I, you know, like to volunteer, do I’ll do whatever, you know, I actually did some graphic design work, for them, volunteer for graphic design work, you know, early on, and then, yeah, I ended up finding my way to splitting, good clean fun with Kate Rice. You know, started as, I would just fill in here and there when she was on vacation and kind of, you know, worked up to, like, we kind of split half and half the shows.
00:46:08:12 – 00:46:27:48
Jonathan Roth
But, yeah, I mean, I like, I don’t know, I just, I love, like, the and I think the thing about college and public radio two that I love is that, like, so I’ve always I’m always about music discovery. And just like I get, I mean, there’s, there’s stuff that I love, absolutely love and could listen to a million times.
00:46:27:48 – 00:46:31:06
Jonathan Roth
But I also really love finding new stuff and just.
00:46:31:08 – 00:46:37:20
Agent Palmer
I and both kinds of new stuff. The new the new new stuff and the new to you stuff. Right? I’m guessing.
00:46:37:20 – 00:47:02:01
Jonathan Roth
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, like, friend of mine at work just turned me on to Tommy Keane, who, is not around anymore. Passed away actually, unfortunately passed away recently, but was like really active in like the 80s and 90s. And I was kind of familiar with him, but like, didn’t wasn’t like super familiar with his stuff and like just been listening to him, you know, really good power pop stuff.
00:47:02:05 – 00:47:31:29
Jonathan Roth
And, you know, and like, I love that stuff, too. And, I mean, I’m huge into jazz, and I’m always going back and finding, you know, I mean, I started off with you’re Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, etc.. Now I’m at the definitely at the point where I’m, like, trying to dig deeper and deeper and like, okay, you know, like, okay, like, who else is it like, I’m, I’m familiar enough with, like, the big names I want to get into, like the lesser known names, you know, and.
00:47:31:29 – 00:47:52:43
Jonathan Roth
Yes. So, you know, same thing there, just digging into jazz from like 40s, 5060s, 70s or whatever that, you know, I’m not familiar with, but also, but also like the brand new stuff, the new stuff just coming out and, so I’ve always been like, that’s always been my thing. It’s just I’m always constant, like, I just love music discovery.
00:47:52:43 – 00:48:17:08
Jonathan Roth
And to me, college public radio is like being like sharing your music discovery with the listeners, you know, because it’s it’s, you know, you’re there’s no it’s not like a top 40 station where, you know, there’s a set place, the whatever you you pick the stuff and you’re introducing the, a lot of times, the audience to stuff that they’re not familiar with.
00:48:17:08 – 00:48:24:17
Jonathan Roth
And it’s, but, you know, like that part to me is just really exciting. It’s just really awesome.
00:48:24:21 – 00:48:50:49
Agent Palmer
Is there, a part of, you know, the music, right? You play and you obviously promote in, you know, on the show, you know, I’m amazed that of all of this, those are just still hobbies for you. Like, you know what I mean? Like, because it feels like you’ve got the skills to do whatever you wanted at this point.
00:48:50:49 – 00:49:04:15
Agent Palmer
Really? But, like, obviously, music is a passion. Is it something you want to keep as a passion? Like, oh, no, this is my hobby. I want this to remain fun.
00:49:04:20 – 00:49:46:47
Jonathan Roth
Like, it would, you know, I’ve done I’ve had some kind of here and there jobs sort of in the music industry. I mean, I, I would like it to be on my own terms and, you know, the kind of stuff that I enjoy. Like, I would, I guess what I want to say, I guess what I say is, like, if it’s a choice between, like, promoting the music that I like and really believe in and keeping it as a hobby or promoting stuff, I don’t particularly care for and getting paid for it.
00:49:46:52 – 00:49:52:14
Jonathan Roth
I’m going to keep it a hobby, you know?
00:49:52:19 – 00:50:05:56
Jonathan Roth
Yeah, I mean, I you know, that was another thing that I thought about too, is like, you know, when I, when I got out of college was, you know, because I spent so much time at the radio station, you know, just so much there, you know, especially as a music director talking to record labels and stuff like that.
00:50:05:56 – 00:50:23:46
Jonathan Roth
I mean, I did consider getting into, like, radio promotion, or radio and press promotion at, like an indie label or something like that. I mean, the thing there was like, even then and probably even more so now, I well, I mean, you know, it’s it’s a totally.
00:50:23:51 – 00:50:25:07
Agent Palmer
It’s a different.
00:50:25:12 – 00:50:56:31
Jonathan Roth
Game now. Yeah. But even then it was like, okay, well, you’re not going to get paid anything. And, you know, if the label doesn’t do so well this year, we may cut your position. And, you know, I mean, I had friends who did that. Other friends who worked at X jam with me who tried to get into, like, you know, working at a label that either, you know, radio promotion or, artist management and that kind of stuff.
00:50:56:31 – 00:51:20:02
Jonathan Roth
And it’s it’s tough. I mean, it’s, you know. Right. Like one friend who has a long resume of working at different labels and stuff like that, and she’s like doing something completely different. And, you know, because it’s like, you know, the music industry, like the pay sucks, but like, the perks are nice. Like, you know, you get to go to shows for free and get free records and stuff like that.
00:51:20:02 – 00:51:23:29
Jonathan Roth
But, you know, the pay isn’t, isn’t so hot.
00:51:23:29 – 00:51:25:17
Agent Palmer
I, I think you made the right decision.
00:51:25:19 – 00:51:35:20
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. You.
00:51:35:25 – 00:52:00:59
Agent Palmer
You can listen to Jonathan or the other rotating hosts of good Clean Fun Saturdays from 8 p.m. to 11 Eastern Standard Time on DIY talk. What he does not just by volunteering, but by hosting and putting together three hours of new and recent independent and alternative releases. Is the human part of music discovery that I’ve spoken about? There are connections that humans can make that algorithms just cannot.
00:52:01:04 – 00:52:21:06
Agent Palmer
It’s why I enjoy listening to good, clean fun, because sometimes I hear a song that reminds me of something I haven’t heard in years, and sometimes I remember that I used to listen to and even play some indie alternative pop punk back in college, and maybe I should go back and listen to that again. And here’s the best part.
00:52:21:11 – 00:52:44:48
Agent Palmer
While the demise of radio is utterly overblown and perhaps overstated, you can listen to good, clean fun and hundreds of other shows like it from college and public radio stations around the country and Globe Online. You can experience radio as you may have fallen in love with it and fall in love with it again. Or you can experience listening to radio like this for the first time.
00:52:45:00 – 00:53:04:45
Agent Palmer
I personally have a few stations out of Canada that I’ve tuned into online on more than one occasion. Radio of this kind isn’t dead. It’s not buried. You just have to know where to listen. Does your local college or public radio station have a cool show you think I’d be interested in? Have you found a cool DJ online that you’d like to share?
00:53:04:56 – 00:53:23:39
Agent Palmer
Please do. I’m always up for more music discovery. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 133. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact my guest, Jonathan and myself in the show notes.
00:53:23:44 – 00:53:58:48
Agent Palmer
There you can also find Jonathan’s website. Jonathan Rothko. That’s John at an hour of echo, and you can listen to Jonathan. Host good clean fun on DIY. Org the music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Email can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:53:58:53 – 00:54:29:39
Agent Palmer
You.
00:54:29:43 – 00:54:35:31
Agent Palmer
Need. All right, Jonathan, do you have one final question for me?
00:54:35:36 – 00:54:42:43
Jonathan Roth
Yes I do. Can you name your top five musical artists?
00:54:42:47 – 00:54:45:21
Agent Palmer
Like favorite or influences?
00:54:45:26 – 00:54:47:12
Jonathan Roth
Favorite of all time?
00:54:47:17 – 00:55:06:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I probably, Dylan. Definitely one. I think because I just recently finished listening to his catalog and a few others, I frank Zappa might go on the list now.
00:55:06:35 – 00:55:09:07
Jonathan Roth
Okay.
00:55:09:12 – 00:55:14:32
Agent Palmer
They Might Be Giants. Aerosmith.
00:55:14:37 – 00:55:17:19
Jonathan Roth
And,
00:55:17:24 – 00:55:32:53
Agent Palmer
The fourth one, I mean, I, I want to say guns N roses, but I feel like and I do love guns, but I think, so Dylan Zappa,
00:55:32:58 – 00:55:35:53
Agent Palmer
Aerosmith.
00:55:35:57 – 00:55:55:47
Agent Palmer
Oh, man. Probably like, I feel like I want to cover my bases. But, yeah, they might be giants. And then, like, there’s so many I alt say, just to kind of the band. Okay. Even though it overlaps with Dylan a lot.
00:55:55:51 – 00:55:56:15
Jonathan Roth
Right.
00:55:56:15 – 00:55:57:20
Agent Palmer
Still separate. So.
00:55:57:21 – 00:56:00:00
Jonathan Roth
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
00:56:00:05 – 00:56:19:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think I think those would be the five. It’s it’s a tough call though, because it also depends on my mood right now. I guess these are the five for tonight. Yeah. Ask me again in a week. Might be a different five. I mean, do you have your five?
00:56:19:07 – 00:56:51:47
Jonathan Roth
Okay. One and two or set the other three or got you kind of change. Okay. Easily. Number one Beatles. Okay. All time favorite. Always has been. All right. Number two, Radiohead. Okay. After I get after that, it gets a little tricky. I’m going to go with, I’m going to go with Nirvana, Fugazi and Sunny Day Real Estate.
00:56:51:52 – 00:56:57:30
Jonathan Roth
Okay, in that order right now. But again, that’ll change tomorrow.
00:56:57:41 – 00:57:22:23
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It’s it’s it’s tough because, like, there are times when, like I, you know, and so now I’m now like now I’m already thinking like, well Tom petty belongs on the live, right. Like it was like, all right, well, you know, it’s like I’ve kind of screwed up a little bit, but no, I think and I think anybody who’s really into music will waver.
00:57:22:23 – 00:57:38:43
Agent Palmer
And it’s, it’s not just about like, well, I grew up and I learned to like the classics that you were trying to spend most of your youth rebelling against. Right. But you’re also like, well, it’s a good day. I want to listen to this stuff or it’s a bad day. I want to listen to this. I it’s tough.
00:57:38:43 – 00:58:09:36
Agent Palmer
I, you know, and it’s just kind of like all over the place, but I, I think I need look, I, I always played I’m a bass player mainly, but I don’t play out like I’ll just, I’ll play with music. But I think that, you know, it was the, the height of the pandemic when I slowly decided to listen to more music because I was a big podcast listener.
00:58:09:40 – 00:58:32:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And then I would spend like a day listening to music, and I was like, I’m happier. And it’s not that the podcasts were depressing. It’s that music makes me happy. Yeah. And so I’ve kind of fallen out of the podcast as much for listening to it. And I listen to more music these days. Yeah. Including your show when I’m out and about.
00:58:32:45 – 00:58:33:08
Jonathan Roth
Thank you.
00:58:33:21 – 00:58:43:56
Agent Palmer
You know, and it’s because I, I spent I mean, look, listen, look, look at my list of five. Right. It’s none of those people were all those people hit it big before me?
00:58:44:01 – 00:58:45:39
Jonathan Roth
Yeah.
00:58:45:44 – 00:59:11:31
Agent Palmer
And like, I grew up where Nirvana should have been higher on my list, but, like, I was still listening to older classic stations. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, yeah, I love bowling for Soup and Green Day and. Yeah, I, I tend to forget they exist. Not for any reason other than I’m always looking further back and not, as you know, not to yesterday.
00:59:11:35 – 00:59:38:54
Agent Palmer
I’m always looking at like, yeah, the 60s. Right. And so I, your show specifically reminds me of like, oh no, there is good music after the year 2000 is a big joke. I like to make like mad, but all the good stuff happened on the other side of 2000. Yeah. And it’s, I guess, tongue in cheek. Some days I believe it, and some days I’m like, yeah, but there’s some good stuff over here.
00:59:38:59 – 00:59:41:04
Agent Palmer
But it it depends on my mood.
00:59:41:08 – 00:59:54:54
Jonathan Roth
I think. And that’s kind of one of the things I like about doing the radio shows that like, you know, a lot of people who are my age or just like, have that attitude that like, oh, there is no good music after, you know, 2000 or.
00:59:54:56 – 01:00:15:15
Agent Palmer
It’s a, it’s a very like for our, for our age group. It’s a very clean delineation. It’s not the boomers are saying like there’s no good music after 2000. They’re saying like there’s no good music after 1980. Yeah. But the year 2000 feels like a much thicker delineation. So like we get to be like, yeah, I mean.
01:00:15:15 – 01:00:25:08
Jonathan Roth
You know, I mean, and and look, don’t get me wrong, I will still argue that the 90s were the last great decade of music until the cows come home.
01:00:25:08 – 01:00:29:01
Agent Palmer
I will agree with like seconded.
01:00:29:06 – 01:00:54:16
Jonathan Roth
But the one nice thing about doing the radio shows that like, kind of forces me to stay up on because part of the show is doing new, is playing new stuff. Yeah, it does force me to keep up with new stuff and yeah, you know, and I think there’s, I, you know, if you believe that no good like, music is coming out anymore, it’s just because you’re not looking hard enough.
01:00:54:16 – 01:01:17:35
Jonathan Roth
Which, to be fair, people in their 40s don’t have that time to like they did in their, you know, 20s or teens to, to find new stuff. But, you know, and it and it yeah, it’s but, but I think there’s, there’s still albums that come out that, you know, I find today that come out came out this year that I’m like, oh my gosh, this is an incredible record.
01:01:17:35 – 01:01:47:10
Jonathan Roth
Like, you know, it’s but also but, you know, also we’re older and it’s like music doesn’t have the music doesn’t like change your life in your 40s like it did in your teens, in your 20s, just because it’s not such a new experience for you as it was then. You know, you’ve listened to so much stuff now, and you have so much and it’s like, you know, it’s so hard for even for me, like once I hear something new not to be like, well, I mean, I do.
01:01:47:10 – 01:02:09:26
Jonathan Roth
I do it, but not to not to be like, not to be like, oh, man, somebody’s trying to sound like, you know, pavement or like, whatever the case may be, you know, it’s like because we all have at this age in our lives, we all have so much of a frame of reference going back and all this music we listen to, it’s like, you know, to some kid who’s never heard pavement, that’s incorrect.
01:02:09:26 – 01:02:27:41
Jonathan Roth
He’s like, whoa, blew my mind, you know? But you know, I mean, it’s just, you know, it’s a natural point of getting older, but I hope never to lose some bit of joy in discovering, like, new music, whether it be like new, new like or, like you said, like new, older music.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).