Episode 25 features a friend of Agent Palmer’s Jason Zapata as the first of a four-part series on friendship by examining one up close.
What you are about to hear is simple and yet complex. This episode and the others like it all contain four main questions.
- Why are we friends?
- How did we meet?
- How did we become friends?
- Why are we still friends?
Through the answers to those questions, the discussions and the stories that ensue, Jason Zapata and I will dive deep into our shared past, and the meaning of and perhaps the reason for our friendship.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
JasonZapata.com
Buy Jason Zapata’s first book of Poetry Nocturnal Wanderings
Agent Palmer writes about the Tour de France
To Change Your Luck by Jason Stershic (Episode 24)
Adaptation vs. Interpretation (Episode 9 Jason Zapata’s first appearance on The Palmer Files)
You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:22:27
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer.com I had a blast building the Lego Lunar Lander. Agent Carter presented her A to Z movie list. And did you stay until the end of the last episode? My audible presentation has definitely improved. This is The Palmer Files episode 25 with my friend Jason Zapata. This is the first of four episodes discussing friendship by examining one up close.
00:00:22:32 – 00:00:56:46
Agent Palmer
Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:56:51 – 00:00:57:46
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome.
00:00:57:46 – 00:01:23:17
Agent Palmer
To the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 25th episode is the first of four episodes about friendship, starting with a friend from high school. Friendship required space and tolerance. Love required no less. That quote comes from The Voyage of the journalist and our trilogy, which I read because of my friend and the guest of honor on this episode, Jason Zapata.
00:01:23:22 – 00:01:46:12
Agent Palmer
And what’s more, I do love him, and that love may also be due to space and tolerance. You can be the judge. Over the course of this episode. What you are about to hear is simple and yet complex. This episode and the others like it all contained four main questions. Why are we friends? How did we meet? How did we become friends?
00:01:46:27 – 00:02:07:32
Agent Palmer
Why are we still friends? Through the answers to those questions, the discussions and the stories that ensue. Zapata and I will dive deep into our shared past and the meaning of. And perhaps the reason for our friendship. Before we get to it, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or after, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer.
00:02:07:33 – 00:02:28:12
Agent Palmer
The show at The Palmer Files, or send email to the Palmer Files at gmail.com. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:28:17 – 00:02:31:23
Agent Palmer
Jason, why are we friends?
00:02:31:28 – 00:02:49:49
Jason Zapata
Oh, they’re serious questions with this. I was just here for the free pizza, but, why are we friends? That’s. I would say, shared history, shared interests, patients with, each other’s idiosyncrasies, which there are many between the two of us.
00:02:49:54 – 00:02:51:18
Agent Palmer
I mean, yeah, I who is.
00:02:51:20 – 00:02:54:11
Jason Zapata
Oh, definitely. What do you think?
00:02:54:16 – 00:03:17:30
Agent Palmer
Why are we. I you know what? It’s. This is the first of these, And I’m trying not to answer this question because I don’t want to say the same thing. That’s the one thing. It’s the beauty of this whole thing, right? Is that I get to ask this question to you, and then I get to ask it to three other people, and their answers are what I’ll learn from.
00:03:17:35 – 00:03:37:45
Agent Palmer
But if I say it like it could be the same thing, is everybody else like, I know what everybody has in common and I, I, I come from a place where I’m the hub. You guys are all the spokes, right? So it’s hard for me to answer, but I, I cannot disagree with anything you just said. Yeah. It’s you know, that’s pretty on the mark there.
00:03:37:45 – 00:03:40:40
Agent Palmer
So how did we meet?
00:03:40:45 – 00:03:52:02
Jason Zapata
I believe and this is again the old going back that far. We did. And that’s, that’s a ways better part of not more than two decades.
00:03:52:05 – 00:03:52:53
Agent Palmer
Over two decades.
00:03:52:53 – 00:04:09:51
Jason Zapata
Yeah. Yes. So yeah, at a time there. But if I recall, there was a mutual group of friends that we had that we the I think they, they knew you longer than they knew me. So I met them. And through them, I believe I met you. If I, if I were calling.
00:04:10:04 – 00:04:10:45
Agent Palmer
What’s funny.
00:04:10:45 – 00:04:13:07
Agent Palmer
Is I remember.
00:04:13:11 – 00:04:13:39
Agent Palmer
It’s.
00:04:13:39 – 00:04:39:46
Agent Palmer
Possible we were on the periphery of each other. Yeah, but for me, I absolutely remember it was I, I don’t know if it was like, maybe freshman year, so I was, I had made it to high school at some point, so I was probably there fresh. It had to be a freshman year. Yeah. And I was in a sport that got canceled for some reason.
00:04:39:51 – 00:04:52:01
Agent Palmer
So I needed a ride home. And our mutual friend Judy was like, well, he’ll give you a ride. And I was like, I don’t, I mean, I.
00:04:52:02 – 00:04:53:37
Agent Palmer
I.
00:04:53:42 – 00:05:10:13
Agent Palmer
At this point it’s like we’re in periphery, like, yeah, I had heard of you, but I didn’t know, you know, you and, I just remember because I don’t know you. You gave her a ride first. She was out of. She was actually out of the way. I was actually more on your way than anyone else. Given that.
00:05:10:25 – 00:05:18:18
Agent Palmer
That scenario. Yeah. And then, like, you dropped her off and it was just the two of us in the car, and it’s like, hi.
00:05:18:29 – 00:05:20:59
Jason Zapata
Yeah, start talking.
00:05:21:04 – 00:05:21:42
Agent Palmer
And then.
00:05:21:47 – 00:05:24:53
Agent Palmer
You know, you dropped me off and that that.
00:05:24:57 – 00:05:31:26
Agent Palmer
That, like, that was the beginning of a beautiful like, it’s so funny because, like.
00:05:31:31 – 00:05:41:25
Agent Palmer
I don’t think it was like, like, obviously I couldn’t drive at the time, but I don’t think it was like, oh, well, I’ll just get a ride with Zapata. Like it wasn’t even that at that point.
00:05:41:25 – 00:05:45:31
Agent Palmer
No, just a one off. And then I like that’s.
00:05:45:31 – 00:05:49:15
Agent Palmer
Where everything goes blur. Like I remember that.
00:05:49:19 – 00:05:51:43
Agent Palmer
But then to, like, hanging out.
00:05:51:43 – 00:05:54:09
Agent Palmer
All the time, I’ve. There’s a blur in between.
00:05:54:09 – 00:06:11:05
Agent Palmer
I am missing whatever that piece is, right? Like, I remember meeting you. Then we hung out all the time. And I know that wasn’t like the next day, or even the next week or the next month, but whatever happened in the middle is beyond me.
00:06:11:10 – 00:06:11:43
Agent Palmer
I have no.
00:06:11:43 – 00:06:36:15
Jason Zapata
Idea. I think if I had to guess, I think it was, again, mutual friends. I think there’s probably a party or two we probably hung out with at some point, and we started talking. And you had a love of, you know, metal music and 80s 80s music, music in particular. I enjoyed that too. And then it kind of spooled off into high fantasy and like, oh, I like to look at, oh, I like talking to you now.
00:06:36:15 – 00:06:48:34
Jason Zapata
And, and I just went from there. We, the, the shared interest in nerd, and just, you know, you know, being a bit of an outsider to, you know, in our own different ways, I think also played a part in that.
00:06:48:45 – 00:06:49:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:06:49:09 – 00:07:05:26
Agent Palmer
We come from very different forms of outsider ness. You were literally the classic, like, well, he doesn’t really belong in that any group, but you also didn’t want to be a part of a group either, like.
00:07:05:30 – 00:07:08:01
Agent Palmer
You know, it wasn’t you know, you weren’t at.
00:07:08:01 – 00:07:31:17
Agent Palmer
A loss because you weren’t on the team. Whereas I was basically on the outside of every group, like I was in a lot of groups, but I never felt in any of them. I, I, I ran track and cross country. I was in theater, you know, I, I was in the band, but I was in all these things and without actually being in it.
00:07:31:20 – 00:07:37:06
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You know, we were well, I guess because.
00:07:37:11 – 00:07:45:39
Agent Palmer
In the context of this being high school, like, you don’t have to be in band and you don’t have to join a club or a sport.
00:07:45:44 – 00:07:47:23
Agent Palmer
But once you do.
00:07:47:28 – 00:08:02:49
Agent Palmer
You’re there, same as English class. Like you just have to be there. You can’t just skip a practice or whatever. And I feel like you were one of those first people in my life where it was like, no, I choose to hang out with that dude.
00:08:02:54 – 00:08:06:54
Agent Palmer
Like, I’m choosing to hang out with him. Like, yeah, I still have all my.
00:08:06:58 – 00:08:10:42
Agent Palmer
My running friends and my band friends in this that the other. But like, no, I.
00:08:10:47 – 00:08:13:14
Agent Palmer
I, we go hang out.
00:08:13:14 – 00:08:16:22
Agent Palmer
And what’s funny about the whole thing is like.
00:08:16:27 – 00:08:16:54
Agent Palmer
We lived.
00:08:16:54 – 00:08:18:24
Agent Palmer
Like a mile and a half apart. Yeah.
00:08:18:25 – 00:08:21:34
Agent Palmer
Like the houses were not that far.
00:08:21:49 – 00:08:23:33
Agent Palmer
And I just know that.
00:08:23:38 – 00:08:24:59
Jason Zapata
Honesdale was a small town.
00:08:24:59 – 00:08:32:11
Agent Palmer
It was a small town, but that doesn’t. But it was spread out too. So it’s not to say that you couldn’t have been out in a country, but like.
00:08:32:16 – 00:08:43:50
Agent Palmer
I don’t know how it happened, but it didn’t happen. It didn’t take very long because at a certain point you started picking me up and we would go to school together. Yeah, yeah. Like that was just it was just that was it.
00:08:43:50 – 00:08:56:04
Agent Palmer
Like, I mean, and if it was a sport, like I wouldn’t come home with you, but like, we would go together. And I remember Friday mornings getting there early and then we’d go to one of the diners and eat.
00:08:56:08 – 00:08:59:25
Jason Zapata
I think there was the bagel. There was a bagel store, if I recall.
00:08:59:25 – 00:09:13:49
Agent Palmer
Well, there was the bagel shop. There was also that diner across the street from it where we would go because the teachers were there on Fridays, too, because I remember sitting at a table with you eating like I just a normal diner breakfast and like the teachers getting up to leave and being like.
00:09:13:54 – 00:09:18:17
Agent Palmer
See you in class and just being like, if we show up like you’re.
00:09:18:22 – 00:09:23:05
Jason Zapata
But yeah, a little bit of moxie there on our part. Oh yeah. We’ll we’ll be there. Yeah.
00:09:23:10 – 00:09:24:18
Agent Palmer
But it was just.
00:09:24:23 – 00:09:27:58
Agent Palmer
Like, after I met you, I.
00:09:28:03 – 00:09:29:42
Agent Palmer
I just you’re.
00:09:29:42 – 00:09:33:17
Agent Palmer
There. You’re in almost every, every thing there. Right.
00:09:33:17 – 00:09:35:47
Agent Palmer
It’s just and we overlapped in.
00:09:35:52 – 00:09:40:24
Agent Palmer
Different ways, but it’s still worked. And I just, you know.
00:09:40:29 – 00:10:06:37
Jason Zapata
And then our own kind of circle started overlapping of friends. And now is another thing because I had my own kind of motley crew that I was a part of and, again, a lot of shared interests in movies and in music and, you know, that’s, I think especially in that setting would do it. Not a lot of things to do in a small town, having that type of shared interests where it’s easy and very accessible.
00:10:06:51 – 00:10:13:12
Jason Zapata
You needs pop in a an old all back then was that there was the, it wasn’t, it wasn’t DVD.
00:10:13:20 – 00:10:14:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah, we had DVD. I mean, we had.
00:10:14:50 – 00:10:16:17
Jason Zapata
Chats in I.
00:10:16:21 – 00:10:16:57
Agent Palmer
VHS.
00:10:16:57 – 00:10:22:01
Jason Zapata
Yeah. At that point, I mean, let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s date ourselves here, man. Like there, there’s the VHS.
00:10:22:14 – 00:10:29:49
Agent Palmer
Well, you walk around blockbuster for like an hour. Yeah. You know, hey, do you want to. You want to watch this? Yeah. We saw it last week.
00:10:29:49 – 00:10:42:29
Jason Zapata
Like exactly. And now it’s the whole thing. You went to your video store, you hung out. I mean, it was this whole kind of way of meeting up and hanging out and sharing stories, and, you know, it’s that’s what we did that.
00:10:42:31 – 00:10:46:11
Agent Palmer
So is is it a blur for you as well as to how.
00:10:46:11 – 00:10:47:21
Agent Palmer
We became friends?
00:10:47:21 – 00:10:54:29
Agent Palmer
Like we we’ve established how we met. And then we just started hanging out like I again, I think that.
00:10:54:29 – 00:10:58:28
Agent Palmer
Blur is whatever the growing pains were of becoming friends. Right?
00:10:58:28 – 00:11:08:09
Agent Palmer
Like whatever that blur that I cannot remember. For the life of me is like, whatever happened in that set the seeds for everything.
00:11:08:14 – 00:11:31:37
Jason Zapata
Because what was that joke I, we were laughing about, I think almost a couple weeks ago was the one friend you were mentioning. I was like, I have no idea who you’re talking about. And then, you know, I, I started joking with you. I was like, you know, I said that. But a couple hours later, the picture of her face started rendering in my mind and I was like, I know exactly who he’s talking about now.
00:11:31:38 – 00:11:36:49
Jason Zapata
Yeah, it was just it was just it was so freaky because I’m like, wow, that’s that’s weird how that works.
00:11:36:49 – 00:11:38:54
Agent Palmer
It’s well, and it’s funny too, because, like, we.
00:11:38:59 – 00:11:52:00
Agent Palmer
We haven’t lived the same life, right? Like, as a great example, you and I, high school, but you were a year ahead of me. I skipped out.
00:11:52:05 – 00:11:52:32
Agent Palmer
You know.
00:11:52:32 – 00:11:57:06
Agent Palmer
Halfway through your senior year. My junior year, I went overseas.
00:11:57:10 – 00:12:02:28
Agent Palmer
And, you know, you you’re the only friend.
00:12:02:32 – 00:12:04:21
Agent Palmer
Friend, not family.
00:12:04:26 – 00:12:12:15
Agent Palmer
The only friend who’s known me before and after that trip. Like he’s the only one. So you’re the only person that I can.
00:12:12:15 – 00:12:16:36
Agent Palmer
Sit here and be like. Did I change because you’re.
00:12:16:43 – 00:12:24:33
Agent Palmer
You’re the only one who still remains. Yeah. That knew me before and after. Yeah. And I did call you and I.
00:12:24:38 – 00:12:39:43
Agent Palmer
That’s when I remember falling in love with your family because I. I mean, the time difference was like 12 or 13 hours or something like that. And I would call it weird hours, like before you would go to school. Yeah. Or whatever. And like, your mom was so nice.
00:12:39:48 – 00:12:40:49
Agent Palmer
And, you know, oh, you’re.
00:12:40:50 – 00:12:44:23
Jason Zapata
I think it’s funny, our parents have adopted each it like each other, like it’s.
00:12:44:35 – 00:12:52:46
Agent Palmer
That. And that didn’t take long either. Like, it was just like, okay, that’s just how it is. And so I would call and just because.
00:12:52:46 – 00:13:13:08
Agent Palmer
You were the one person I stayed in touch with while I was over there, it might have been a few others, but outside of family, it was you. And then I will never forget. I had come back and we were. It’s just one of those things I will never forget because I was like.
00:13:13:13 – 00:13:15:39
Agent Palmer
Hey, let’s go. Maybe we should hang out with Dan.
00:13:15:44 – 00:13:17:17
Agent Palmer
And you’re like, he’s busy.
00:13:17:31 – 00:13:29:58
Agent Palmer
And I was like, maybe we should hang out with Sean. And he’s like, he’s busy. I’m like, where are they? And you’re like, graduation? And I was like, shouldn’t you be at graduation?
00:13:30:03 – 00:13:30:35
Jason Zapata
Yeah, because.
00:13:30:35 – 00:13:31:53
Agent Palmer
We were just in your car.
00:13:31:53 – 00:13:33:12
Agent Palmer
Driving around.
00:13:33:12 – 00:14:00:01
Jason Zapata
Yeah, we I, had decided it was not in my, best interest to attend. And again, it’s frustrating because there were really good teachers there, and I didn’t. I think if I could go back, I don’t think I would have gone. But at the same time, I think I should have made more of an effort to just go out of my way to thank them before kind of closing that particular trouble.
00:14:00:01 – 00:14:01:29
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s funny because a.
00:14:01:29 – 00:14:23:02
Agent Palmer
Year later, when I was eligible for my high school diploma, I didn’t go either. But I had different reasons. I was like, wait, you? I look, we went to a public school. I want to make that establish that. But, they were like, you have to you have to shave your beard. And I was like, I’m not, I’m not.
00:14:23:02 – 00:14:31:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I’m not. And I told you that. And you laughed. You just lost it. Like they want you to do what.
00:14:31:22 – 00:15:06:40
Jason Zapata
I, what people need to understand too, about this particular small town is you have to go back in time because. And I don’t mean is they completely disparagingly, but just there is a very almost like 50s, 60s mentality. There was still very prevalent in that geographical area. And, you know, it’s I don’t think that it I, I’m not going to say it was like, nightmarish for me, but it was definitely a very challenging, you know, time.
00:15:06:40 – 00:15:07:47
Jason Zapata
Well, look to that.
00:15:07:49 – 00:15:09:19
Agent Palmer
Look at what we had to do, right?
00:15:09:19 – 00:15:27:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Even like once the high school years were behind us and we were still there and around, we drove the 90 minutes to Scranton to do anything. Oh, yeah. That’s where the concerts where we drove at that time, 45 or 50 minutes to somewhere else to go.
00:15:27:54 – 00:15:29:49
Agent Palmer
Bowling, just to go bowling. We didn’t have a.
00:15:29:49 – 00:15:32:42
Agent Palmer
Bowling alley at that time in that town.
00:15:32:47 – 00:15:33:50
Agent Palmer
It was just kind of like there.
00:15:33:50 – 00:15:38:09
Jason Zapata
Was like one in PA pack. I want to see our way, Mart. There was one. There was just outside.
00:15:38:18 – 00:15:41:16
Agent Palmer
One in car right outside of Carbondale, right off of.
00:15:41:21 – 00:15:44:57
Agent Palmer
Because the look, we also.
00:15:44:57 – 00:15:55:02
Agent Palmer
Were that generation where the bypass, as it is now known, didn’t exist for us. So it wasn’t just like a quick shot to wherever we wanted to go.
00:15:55:02 – 00:15:55:32
Jason Zapata
It wasn’t.
00:15:55:42 – 00:16:13:01
Agent Palmer
But one of those, bowling trips is when I first saw you, in anguish, because we got back at, like, normal time, 1 a.m., 2 a.m., whatever. One you’re like, I think I left my journal.
00:16:13:05 – 00:16:15:12
Jason Zapata
Yeah, I remember that. I remember that.
00:16:15:17 – 00:16:22:17
Agent Palmer
And it’s just like, we’ll we’ll go back tomorrow. Like, they’re close, like it’s, you know, whatever. And we never.
00:16:22:23 – 00:16:32:13
Jason Zapata
Retrieved it never retrieved. It was it’s it’s it’s gone. There’s probably some pretty, pretty decent material in there. I kind of regret that, I was never able to, to, to get that.
00:16:32:13 – 00:16:33:24
Agent Palmer
I mean, it’s funny, you.
00:16:33:24 – 00:16:37:13
Agent Palmer
And I both have that create of.
00:16:37:18 – 00:16:38:55
Agent Palmer
Oh, yeah. And we did.
00:16:38:55 – 00:16:50:55
Agent Palmer
Early on share what I can only remember as being bad. I don’t think a lot of it at that time was very good.
00:16:51:00 – 00:17:21:22
Jason Zapata
No. And that’s what makes it. But that’s the good thing though, because it’s it’s angsty and it’s angry and it’s, you know, it’s unvarnished and it’s you grow from that like you, you, you. What happens is, for a lot of creative people, I think, is that passion remains. But when you wear the clothes of an older man, you’re able to refine that message or that statement to try to make whatever piece of art you’re working with.
00:17:21:22 – 00:17:28:59
Jason Zapata
And, I miss those days. I and the angry young man, you know, I think there’s something to be said for that.
00:17:29:04 – 00:17:52:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So I am responsible for bringing you to college with me because at the time, so I just want to state this now, depending on where we go with this, there have been times in our friendship when you have tried to run away. Not from me in particular, but from every one.
00:17:52:48 – 00:17:53:24
Agent Palmer
And one.
00:17:53:24 – 00:17:54:29
Agent Palmer
Of those times.
00:17:54:38 – 00:17:57:20
Jason Zapata
I have very strong hermit inclinations.
00:17:57:25 – 00:18:02:29
Agent Palmer
Very, very strong hermit inclinations. One of those times you went.
00:18:02:29 – 00:18:13:04
Agent Palmer
So I went to Keystone and you were still back at home. And then my sophomore year you went to Bloomsburg.
00:18:13:09 – 00:18:14:53
Agent Palmer
And it was pulling.
00:18:14:55 – 00:18:16:47
Agent Palmer
Teeth to get Ahold of you.
00:18:16:52 – 00:18:25:57
Agent Palmer
And I understand you were busy, but you know, one it is a pot of falling off the face of the earth.
00:18:26:02 – 00:18:27:38
Agent Palmer
I talked to your parents.
00:18:27:43 – 00:18:29:34
Agent Palmer
That year more than I talked to.
00:18:29:34 – 00:18:51:38
Jason Zapata
You. Yeah. Due to the financial situation. I think at that time I was working close to full time. I was working for a tyrannical pizza joint owner, and I was working like, these crazy hours, like, I think if I, if I had to think back is I think I was like 5 to 12 or something, something really outlandish.
00:18:51:43 – 00:19:00:39
Jason Zapata
So between going to school full time and 30 hours, 32 hours a week, I’m doing is it was brutal.
00:19:00:39 – 00:19:02:05
Agent Palmer
It’s fair. But I mean, we did I mean, we.
00:19:02:05 – 00:19:03:41
Agent Palmer
Did hang out during holidays and that kind.
00:19:03:41 – 00:19:16:30
Jason Zapata
Of oh yeah. And they would have the two I think at the time we were still f, parties where you guys would get a pay per view and I would come down and we’d watch it. And, the one rec room, I forget what it was.
00:19:16:30 – 00:19:18:40
Agent Palmer
Yep, yep, yep. We invite you up on campus.
00:19:18:42 – 00:19:29:07
Jason Zapata
Yeah. And again, some mutual friends were still there, too. Dan was there. Sean was there. So you still had, you know, some of that Honesdale crowd?
00:19:29:08 – 00:19:44:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So that happened. And then when you transferred back to the University of Scranton and you’re closer, which you’re in the big city that actually exists for us at Keystone, like, I mean.
00:19:44:26 – 00:19:45:58
Jason Zapata
So quote unquote big city.
00:19:46:07 – 00:19:48:27
Agent Palmer
We would just be like, come on up and just you and.
00:19:48:27 – 00:19:51:11
Agent Palmer
You were up like probably at least one week.
00:19:51:11 – 00:19:52:05
Jason Zapata
Most weekends. Yeah.
00:19:52:05 – 00:19:56:48
Agent Palmer
Hanging out. If we weren’t down and then.
00:19:56:52 – 00:19:58:13
Agent Palmer
You know, it’s just one of those.
00:19:58:13 – 00:19:59:49
Agent Palmer
Things like.
00:19:59:54 – 00:20:06:12
Jason Zapata
And again, the, the mixing of the circles, I think even you spoke about earlier about Hubs and Spokes.
00:20:06:12 – 00:20:06:32
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:20:06:42 – 00:20:10:28
Jason Zapata
We had a lot of intermingling spokes going up. That’s true. Yes.
00:20:10:38 – 00:20:11:37
Agent Palmer
It really did. Yeah.
00:20:11:37 – 00:20:16:12
Agent Palmer
So at that point, you know.
00:20:16:17 – 00:20:21:24
Agent Palmer
We we fell into a fairly decent rhythm.
00:20:21:29 – 00:20:47:48
Agent Palmer
But it was weird because, you know, we go back to Honesdale for the summer and it’s just kind of like, whatever it is, you’re college kids back from whatever. It’s just kind of like, whatever. And I, I spent the last two summers on campus, and you would come up occasionally and I, I all I remember is I graduated and came down here, I’m an hour away.
00:20:47:53 – 00:21:14:12
Agent Palmer
And I used to, in the beginning, come up every weekend. I was just always coming up. And then the anxiety hit. The travel was a little bit less, everybody else talk about the circle like everybody else started to disperse and was just kind of you and me at a certain point, like everybody else was gone and moved on to other things.
00:21:14:12 – 00:21:16:27
Agent Palmer
Or, you know, Dan goes.
00:21:16:27 – 00:21:18:22
Agent Palmer
Overseas.
00:21:18:27 – 00:21:26:52
Agent Palmer
Sean’s in the military. Like what happened to Philly? Kyle moved like, everybody’s gone. And the other circles are kind of dispersed as well.
00:21:26:52 – 00:21:27:42
Jason Zapata
Yeah.
00:21:27:46 – 00:21:35:08
Agent Palmer
And those were all, you know, joint circles. So it’s just kind of like, you know, we just kind of stayed in touch. Yeah.
00:21:35:12 – 00:21:53:35
Agent Palmer
And then you completely ghosted me for like six months. Six months. Not a hey nor hi nor and nothing six months of absolutely just.
00:21:53:40 – 00:22:01:25
Agent Palmer
I don’t know where I would talk to other people and be like, you’re from Sparta. No, no.
00:22:01:29 – 00:22:34:08
Jason Zapata
Yes. After a very disappointing short stint, with a a, nonprofit company in Philadelphia, things went bad. The job, wasn’t what I thought it was going to be. I had to quit it. And that’s right. When the 2008 economic spiral happened and I could not find a job, and I lost everything. I was in the red.
00:22:34:08 – 00:22:45:09
Jason Zapata
I had to come back home. A tail between my legs, I, I couldn’t I was looking up and seeing the soles of my feet. That’s how down I was.
00:22:45:09 – 00:23:01:59
Agent Palmer
Now, at a certain point in this, when you do move back home, I start to the call. Phone calls start to trickle in a little bit. Now, at this point in 2008, someone is still not wanting a cell phone.
00:23:02:04 – 00:23:07:56
Agent Palmer
I just want everyone to know that you’ve had, like, I’ve had one cell phone number in the entire.
00:23:07:56 – 00:23:10:55
Agent Palmer
Time we’ve known each other. You’ve had like seven.
00:23:10:59 – 00:23:42:19
Jason Zapata
Yeah, I, I did not take to the new technology. Well, I do value it. And I say that very, begrudgingly. I do see the perils of it as well, but, No, I had no burner phones. He used to laugh at me, about my old track phones. I had, I loved the I had a one, an old flip phone I kept forever was an old, Motorola, flip phone.
00:23:42:24 – 00:23:57:59
Jason Zapata
And I, I used that for, like, forever. Then I, you know, started gaining a bit more, and it was just like, okay, my minutes keep running out. I got to get a goddamn phone so that that finally kind of forced my hand. I started, you know, I, I made the jump to a regular mobile.
00:23:57:59 – 00:24:03:48
Agent Palmer
Phone, but at certain point in that period, you moved up to the cabin.
00:24:03:53 – 00:24:30:01
Jason Zapata
Yeah. So what ended up happening is, I needed space. I had a dog two that was with me. My my fur baby. Thor. Who is dude, that that dog was a rock man. Like, he he dealt with the crazy move to Philly and he he, he he was stuck in the attic, you know, it’s towards, a very young at heart dog.
00:24:30:02 – 00:24:52:57
Jason Zapata
If you remember, he was always very hyper, and he loved running around and, you know, eating pizza and drinking beer like he was my dog. He would love these things, damn it. So, we needed more space. So my family, had this very old, like, modular home out in the middle of nowhere, boonie land, and, what was the name of the development?
00:24:52:57 – 00:24:53:53
Jason Zapata
Oh, man, I’m blanking.
00:24:53:53 – 00:24:56:56
Agent Palmer
I can’t remember. I don’t remember either, because I just remember we used to go.
00:24:56:56 – 00:24:58:02
Agent Palmer
In high school. Were you think.
00:24:58:02 – 00:25:00:05
Jason Zapata
Quick. Yes, yes.
00:25:00:05 – 00:25:03:20
Agent Palmer
Now, in high school, we went there to drink.
00:25:03:24 – 00:25:04:14
Agent Palmer
That’s.
00:25:04:18 – 00:25:05:56
Agent Palmer
That’s where you went to drink.
00:25:06:01 – 00:25:08:36
Agent Palmer
But you moved in and I remember.
00:25:08:41 – 00:25:22:00
Agent Palmer
Kind of the phone call, I had just started my business, and I was like, I, I need, I, I need a different set of scenery so I can focus. And I was just like, I haven’t, I’m coming up.
00:25:22:05 – 00:25:27:55
Jason Zapata
But I it’s. You didn’t give me. There was, there was no there was a no yes or no about it. It’s like I’m just coming.
00:25:27:55 – 00:25:47:43
Agent Palmer
I understand you were busy, but you were also like, kind of. Stan. That was one of the hermit periods. And I was like, we’re. You’re getting out of this now. One of the other things that’s happening at this point, maybe before this or around this time, is we start working on a book of poetry for you. Yes.
00:25:47:48 – 00:25:52:32
Agent Palmer
And I don’t even know what. Not at that.
00:25:52:32 – 00:26:10:11
Agent Palmer
Time. Nothing qualified me as an editor for you, except that I was the one who. You were sharing all of your stuff with for the last however long. And you gave me 16 poems and I said, hold on, I know you’ve got other good stuff.
00:26:10:16 – 00:26:15:13
Agent Palmer
Because this man used to send emails before E!
00:26:15:13 – 00:26:19:45
Agent Palmer
Newsletters were a thing. You used to send emails like, hey guys, look what I just wrote.
00:26:19:50 – 00:26:43:11
Jason Zapata
And I feel, hey, sometimes what I miss that I do. I think that you would think with all the developments in technology, we have, I just think that you got a lot more out of that. I don’t know if it’s just me. I don’t know, it’s just I sometimes wonder if, you know, being limited by characters or by a block of space or something.
00:26:43:11 – 00:26:54:02
Jason Zapata
We we do ourselves an injustice, you know, because you were. It was a letter in a sense. You know, when you sent that email, I, I kind of I don’t know, I’m, I’m, I digress.
00:26:54:14 – 00:26:56:06
Agent Palmer
So I.
00:26:56:11 – 00:27:08:58
Agent Palmer
I saved every single one and I sent them all back to you and went, now you’ve got enough for a book. And you went, I’m not I’m not using these.
00:27:09:03 – 00:27:11:14
Agent Palmer
Yeah, well they’re frameworks.
00:27:11:14 – 00:27:23:37
Agent Palmer
You, you start with these and I don’t know when it had to be before the cabin because the cabins a different part of the the collaboration story.
00:27:23:42 – 00:27:25:38
Agent Palmer
But we.
00:27:25:42 – 00:27:42:05
Agent Palmer
I remember sitting on my parent’s porch running through the printed out version, which I still have of that first book. Yeah. And I still remember some of the arguments are still fresh.
00:27:42:10 – 00:27:45:51
Agent Palmer
We’re not going to rehash them here, but the arguments are still fresh.
00:27:45:56 – 00:27:53:15
Jason Zapata
And, it was developing a process. The I remember the Excel spreadsheet, the we color coded, color.
00:27:53:15 – 00:27:53:36
Agent Palmer
Coded.
00:27:53:36 – 00:27:54:20
Agent Palmer
Everything.
00:27:54:20 – 00:27:56:09
Agent Palmer
We did. I mean, we didn’t I.
00:27:56:09 – 00:27:58:33
Agent Palmer
Think we did very well considering we had.
00:27:58:33 – 00:27:59:06
Agent Palmer
No.
00:27:59:06 – 00:28:03:16
Jason Zapata
Experience whatsoever. What we were doing at like nothing. It was.
00:28:03:16 – 00:28:18:35
Agent Palmer
And that’s where, I mean, you knew Chris from Keystone, but that’s where it was like, all right. No, this is a guy who can take our help with photos. Yeah, and help with the cover. And so we we put out a book of poetry, and then.
00:28:18:40 – 00:28:20:06
Agent Palmer
While you.
00:28:20:06 – 00:28:27:36
Agent Palmer
Are her meeting in the cabin, you tease me. I’m. I’m working on a novel.
00:28:27:41 – 00:28:31:37
Agent Palmer
Yeah. When can I see some pages? You can’t see any pages.
00:28:31:42 – 00:28:37:42
Jason Zapata
I was very for. Oh, my God, I, you you. I was a very tough nut to crack. I was not going to share. Damn.
00:28:37:51 – 00:28:39:33
Agent Palmer
What are you doing? Nothing.
00:28:39:44 – 00:28:40:47
Agent Palmer
You’re writing? Yeah.
00:28:40:59 – 00:28:48:45
Agent Palmer
You get to know you’re going to share. No. So I. And look, when I left it was.
00:28:48:45 – 00:29:04:54
Agent Palmer
I was also selfish, like I was. I just started a business. I had a lot of projects to do, or a side business, but I wanted to get off on the right foot, and I was like, well, suppose got internet. It’d be good to get away for a little bit. I was like, I’m coming up. I think.
00:29:04:54 – 00:29:05:20
Agent Palmer
I gave you.
00:29:05:20 – 00:29:10:53
Agent Palmer
Like a couple days now. I’ll be up in a couple of days for a couple weeks.
00:29:10:58 – 00:29:19:03
Agent Palmer
Whatever. It was just vague. Man is big all around. There’s no. Yeah. And and so.
00:29:19:03 – 00:29:22:05
Agent Palmer
I show up with like two computers, not.
00:29:22:10 – 00:29:25:41
Agent Palmer
Laptops. Two computers.
00:29:25:42 – 00:29:32:36
Jason Zapata
Yeah. Because I, I’m trying to remember back to I think they were around, but I think they’re still prohibitively priced.
00:29:32:36 – 00:29:33:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah. We.
00:29:33:32 – 00:29:35:49
Jason Zapata
Yeah. Yeah I mean.
00:29:35:54 – 00:29:36:37
Agent Palmer
I might have had a.
00:29:36:37 – 00:29:44:07
Agent Palmer
Laptop with me, but I know I brought a computer and an additional monitor, I, I brought some stuff. I brought an office. You get in my trunk.
00:29:44:12 – 00:29:46:29
Jason Zapata
And you set it up in the dining room table.
00:29:46:29 – 00:29:51:11
Agent Palmer
Dining room table became my office for, you know, like two weeks and.
00:29:51:16 – 00:29:52:26
Jason Zapata
And I wanted to murder you.
00:29:52:30 – 00:29:53:17
Agent Palmer
You wanted to.
00:29:53:17 – 00:29:59:31
Jason Zapata
Murder. I wanted to murder you every morning. Why don’t you explain to the folks, the good folks listening to this, why I wanted to murder you?
00:29:59:36 – 00:30:26:06
Agent Palmer
So for anybody who’s been following my blog for most of the time, I’ve had my blog. I do a tour de France recap, and every year I get up for it. Every year, whether I’m working retail or a real job or I’m unemployed, I get up early in the morning and I turn on the tour and I watch it till noon, and if it’s on in the background because I’m at the office or whatever, like I watch it.
00:30:26:11 – 00:30:27:09
Agent Palmer
Well, I.
00:30:27:23 – 00:30:35:40
Agent Palmer
Left to come up to see you on July 5th, so it was on.
00:30:35:45 – 00:30:44:15
Agent Palmer
And you had cable at the cabin so I would get up at. Now, mind you, this is the.
00:30:44:15 – 00:30:49:25
Agent Palmer
Mental thing about the whole thing and I mean mental like, don’t try and wrap your head around this.
00:30:49:30 – 00:30:54:52
Agent Palmer
I didn’t set an alarm to wake up. I just kind of woke up at six.
00:30:54:52 – 00:30:55:26
Agent Palmer
30.
00:30:55:28 – 00:31:04:35
Agent Palmer
Made some coffee and turned on the TV and we could have been up until 230 the night before. Doesn’t matter. And like when when I say.
00:31:04:40 – 00:31:12:59
Agent Palmer
I took two weeks off, and I’m coding when you’re at work and then you come home and we hang out, whatever.
00:31:13:04 – 00:31:23:10
Agent Palmer
But I, without fail, would wake up and I broke you because before I left and like those last few days, you were watching.
00:31:23:10 – 00:31:23:45
Agent Palmer
It with me.
00:31:23:45 – 00:31:24:34
Jason Zapata
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:24:36 – 00:31:25:01
Agent Palmer
You’re like.
00:31:25:01 – 00:31:26:30
Agent Palmer
Well, I’m interested now.
00:31:26:35 – 00:31:49:45
Jason Zapata
I well, I had to be. I was forcibly invested in it because I was being awoken. And the funny thing is I was working at, Code Haven at the time. The the place of the famous champagne tower Jacuzzi. And I was, reservation agent, and I was sell people these these packages so I would get home. 11 1130 1130.
00:31:49:45 – 00:32:16:20
Jason Zapata
Yeah. By the time I wind down and everything, it’s close to one. So I’m going to bed. And then 4.5 hours later, I’m hearing French guys talking, and it’s like, ha! God damn it, it’s it’s 6:00 in the morning. Fuck. So. But, yeah, it was fun. And, you know, we, I know you had question if we actually had real breakfast, and I actually started thinking about this.
00:32:16:20 – 00:32:19:25
Jason Zapata
I know we ate a lot of eggs and bacon. I do remember that.
00:32:19:25 – 00:32:24:02
Agent Palmer
I remember the grill, and I said this to you very recently.
00:32:24:07 – 00:32:31:31
Agent Palmer
We ate nothing but burgers and hot dogs. Yeah. Which is why I said I don’t remember about breakfast, but what I do remember about the burgers and hot dogs.
00:32:31:31 – 00:32:45:06
Agent Palmer
Is it was a gas. It was a propane grill. And I told you, I told you, I do not remember refilling the propane for the, It is a miracle of miracles. We use that thing for like three meals a day.
00:32:45:06 – 00:32:53:57
Jason Zapata
I think it was actually out some type of fracking thing where we we had an actual, like, natural gas means somehow there was attached to the grill. No, I yeah, exactly.
00:32:54:02 – 00:32:58:23
Agent Palmer
Because like, you would, we would make bread.
00:32:58:24 – 00:33:19:01
Agent Palmer
We would have breakfast like always. Coffee like, I mean, I, I woke up and made a pot for everybody. And when I say everybody, it’s not just us. Like, your brother came a couple of times. And lunch before you leave for work. Burgers and dogs. And then maybe I have a late snack. Same thing. And then you’d come home at 11:00, and I knew when you’d be home.
00:33:19:01 – 00:33:24:09
Agent Palmer
So, like a good roommate, I’d heat up the grill and there’d be food waiting.
00:33:24:09 – 00:33:33:32
Agent Palmer
You know, like, just try and be accommodating because I was the guest, you know? And it was one of those things where we say all these things, and it.
00:33:33:33 – 00:33:37:00
Agent Palmer
Says a lot about us being able to put up with each other.
00:33:37:11 – 00:33:48:54
Agent Palmer
But I broke you during that because I finally got a look at the manuscript. You did. I don’t know when it happened, like, but somehow.
00:33:49:07 – 00:33:50:17
Agent Palmer
I remember after a.
00:33:50:17 – 00:33:52:02
Agent Palmer
Couple days.
00:33:52:07 – 00:33:55:39
Agent Palmer
You’re like, all right, all right, take a look at this.
00:33:55:39 – 00:34:11:26
Agent Palmer
And then you went to work, which is the worst. Like he’s just like, all right, here’s what I’ve got. And then literally got in his car and drove away. And I’ve got, questions, probably like 45 pages. It wasn’t like a full manuscript.
00:34:11:26 – 00:34:14:23
Agent Palmer
You’d only gotten a third of the, maybe a half of the way there.
00:34:14:28 – 00:34:15:47
Agent Palmer
And I read it in.
00:34:15:47 – 00:34:17:30
Agent Palmer
Like hour.
00:34:17:35 – 00:34:18:38
Agent Palmer
Maybe even.
00:34:18:38 – 00:34:20:43
Agent Palmer
With, like, stopping to take some notes.
00:34:20:47 – 00:34:44:39
Agent Palmer
And then I’m like, well, he’s not going to be home for another six hours. Like, I was just like, I have questions, I have comments, I feed back, like, what do I do? And you, you came back and you were like, so. And we said there was a fire in the fire pit. And I think we stayed up all night just passing pages back and making notes and talking about it.
00:34:44:44 – 00:34:48:04
Agent Palmer
And it was probably the first time.
00:34:48:09 – 00:34:53:28
Agent Palmer
Even with all the poetry stuff there, you were like, oh, this is why I should share it.
00:34:53:33 – 00:34:58:24
Agent Palmer
Because after the first little bit, you started to ask me.
00:34:58:24 – 00:35:06:05
Agent Palmer
Questions as like a sounding board, because for the 4 or 5 months prior when you were working on yourself.
00:35:06:12 – 00:35:07:25
Agent Palmer
You didn’t have that.
00:35:07:27 – 00:35:07:58
Jason Zapata
No.
00:35:07:58 – 00:35:13:20
Agent Palmer
Like I it was like when people need to understand is it’s not that he wasn’t.
00:35:13:20 – 00:35:14:15
Agent Palmer
Sharing with.
00:35:14:15 – 00:35:19:43
Agent Palmer
Me. He wasn’t sharing with anyone that way. It was closed back.
00:35:19:43 – 00:35:46:11
Jason Zapata
But you, you put down there’s the funny thing is, and it’s weird how it works. I was so secluded. It was the perfect environment to create in because I was just in complete like, like mentally in my own head and just geographically. I was just the perfect opportunity to, to to work on it. And I miss missed I miss it, I miss that, that cabin, I miss that setting.
00:35:46:11 – 00:35:51:09
Jason Zapata
I miss the ability to unwind from everything and just have that place.
00:35:51:09 – 00:35:58:07
Agent Palmer
Speaking of unwinding, let’s talk about the night you thought someone set the cabin on fire?
00:35:58:12 – 00:36:00:56
Jason Zapata
Oh, God. Yes.
00:36:01:01 – 00:36:02:34
Agent Palmer
Your your side.
00:36:02:34 – 00:36:03:48
Jason Zapata
First. My side first.
00:36:03:48 – 00:36:04:47
Agent Palmer
It’s quite dramatic.
00:36:04:55 – 00:36:11:05
Jason Zapata
You have to understand. It’s pitch black where we were. Because it’s the country. It’s.
00:36:11:07 – 00:36:12:24
Agent Palmer
It’s the wood in the woods.
00:36:12:26 – 00:36:18:42
Jason Zapata
There’s no street lamps. It’s. You’re so you’re pulling up. You only have your high. You’re the lights of your car and.
00:36:18:42 – 00:36:19:23
Agent Palmer
Maybe a porch.
00:36:19:23 – 00:36:44:41
Jason Zapata
Light as illumination. So I’m pulling up and I see the eerie glow of fire filling out the backyard like the lurid glow of flame. So I’m like, Holy shit, it’s on fire. So I hop out of my car and I turn the corner into the backyard, and you and my brother are there, and it looks like. I don’t know how.
00:36:44:41 – 00:36:54:45
Jason Zapata
I’m like, how did you do this? And essentially you guys had created a giant fire pit. Now I’ll let you take over and you can explain what you did.
00:36:54:54 – 00:36:55:37
Agent Palmer
There was a.
00:36:55:37 – 00:37:12:49
Agent Palmer
Fire pit there, and it was very much what you think of with a fire pit. And I was, I was being a lumberjack, at some point in the afternoon, just walking into the woods with a chainsaw and cutting down like dead wood for the fire.
00:37:13:04 – 00:37:17:03
Agent Palmer
Because we used to light it. Maybe not every night, but most night.
00:37:17:08 – 00:37:22:36
Agent Palmer
And your brother just happened to come by the cabin, and he’s like.
00:37:22:41 – 00:37:24:02
Agent Palmer
I don’t look, I’d love to.
00:37:24:02 – 00:37:28:03
Agent Palmer
Say it was my idea. Here’s. I don’t know who to put the blame on it. Equal. Right.
00:37:28:03 – 00:37:29:33
Agent Palmer
But at some point we got it.
00:37:29:33 – 00:37:32:54
Agent Palmer
Into our heads to rebuild the fire pit.
00:37:33:08 – 00:37:36:08
Agent Palmer
Now the fire pit is maybe a one,
00:37:36:21 – 00:37:40:01
Agent Palmer
Maybe a three foot diameter hole in the ground.
00:37:40:05 – 00:37:41:18
Agent Palmer
Maybe, maybe.
00:37:41:23 – 00:37:54:07
Jason Zapata
Maybe. No, no, it was pretty much a small indentation, but we had the cinder blocks around it. What you guys did was go down about 2 or 3ft deep.
00:37:54:11 – 00:37:57:07
Agent Palmer
We went down, so we dug down into.
00:37:57:07 – 00:38:01:08
Agent Palmer
The dirt, about two cinder blocks. It was two cinder.
00:38:01:08 – 00:38:02:50
Agent Palmer
Blocks in the.
00:38:02:50 – 00:38:03:54
Agent Palmer
Ground.
00:38:03:59 – 00:38:05:05
Agent Palmer
And then two.
00:38:05:05 – 00:38:05:27
Agent Palmer
Cinder.
00:38:05:27 – 00:38:06:42
Agent Palmer
Blocks above.
00:38:06:42 – 00:38:13:13
Agent Palmer
The ground. And it wasn’t just like cinder block by cinder. No, it was like three by three, right?
00:38:13:13 – 00:38:21:34
Agent Palmer
This was massive. You could lay people in this. So, to enjoy the.
00:38:21:34 – 00:38:24:42
Agent Palmer
Fruits of our labors, your brother Brian and I.
00:38:24:47 – 00:38:36:32
Agent Palmer
Lit a massive bonfire to christen this massive fire pit. So when you pull up, the flames are probably. Oh, taller than the house.
00:38:36:42 – 00:38:37:58
Jason Zapata
No, I wouldn’t say.
00:38:38:03 – 00:38:38:21
Agent Palmer
I mean.
00:38:38:21 – 00:38:44:57
Jason Zapata
Obviously they were taller than the house. I would say that the glow from that. Yeah, it was certainly, you know.
00:38:44:59 – 00:38:46:23
Agent Palmer
Because I remember you.
00:38:46:29 – 00:38:48:43
Agent Palmer
Literally running at us.
00:38:48:43 – 00:38:57:07
Jason Zapata
Yeah. Because I didn’t know what was going on. But then I saw you and my brother and I saw that new and improved fire pit, and I, I put it it’s.
00:38:57:07 – 00:38:59:34
Agent Palmer
Funny too, is you were you went through a.
00:38:59:34 – 00:39:03:41
Agent Palmer
Very, like, quick Ranger mode. You like panicked, then angry.
00:39:03:46 – 00:39:06:17
Agent Palmer
Then questionable and then like, well it it is.
00:39:06:17 – 00:39:07:34
Agent Palmer
Very nice fire pit.
00:39:07:42 – 00:39:10:41
Agent Palmer
It was very nice. That’s where you ended up but I don’t sure.
00:39:10:41 – 00:39:18:20
Jason Zapata
I’m not sure I would have built it as big as you built it, but it’s already done. So it was just like, well, it’s here.
00:39:18:27 – 00:39:22:38
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So we wait.
00:39:22:43 – 00:39:28:43
Agent Palmer
That ends, I come home, yeah. You get to sleep in again. And,
00:39:28:48 – 00:39:30:58
Agent Palmer
We kind of finished.
00:39:31:02 – 00:39:31:51
Agent Palmer
The first.
00:39:31:51 – 00:39:34:37
Jason Zapata
Draft. Yeah, we finished the manuscript.
00:39:34:42 – 00:39:37:49
Agent Palmer
And this is where, like.
00:39:37:49 – 00:39:57:36
Agent Palmer
Being a creative and working with friends who are creative. This is where it got into testing, right? Because you’re like, I did that, I completed it, and I was like, all right, time to do it again. And you’re like, no, I have other stuff I want to write. And I was like.
00:39:57:41 – 00:40:01:35
Agent Palmer
But we but we just,
00:40:01:40 – 00:40:03:17
Jason Zapata
You wanted to get it.
00:40:03:17 – 00:40:12:51
Agent Palmer
Out, man, right? Let’s do it. In fact, people who have been listening to this show since the very beginning will know that at the very end, the after.
00:40:12:51 – 00:40:14:54
Agent Palmer
Credits question.
00:40:14:59 – 00:40:20:01
Agent Palmer
From Bill Sweeney on the first episode is like, what’s one thing you.
00:40:20:01 – 00:40:23:13
Agent Palmer
Never finished that you really want to? And I was.
00:40:23:13 – 00:40:32:16
Agent Palmer
Like, it’s not even mine. It’s the manuscript zips and I did that hasn’t been published yet. Now as.
00:40:32:16 – 00:40:34:02
Agent Palmer
We sit here today talking.
00:40:34:04 – 00:40:35:02
Jason Zapata
Yeah.
00:40:35:07 – 00:40:39:16
Agent Palmer
You have started a series of short stories.
00:40:39:21 – 00:40:40:42
Jason Zapata
14 installments.
00:40:40:47 – 00:40:45:43
Agent Palmer
And you got to about seven. You got to about five before you’d.
00:40:45:44 – 00:40:50:32
Agent Palmer
Share any of them with me again, just keeping it close to the vest.
00:40:50:37 – 00:40:52:32
Agent Palmer
We’ve already successfully.
00:40:52:32 – 00:40:55:14
Agent Palmer
Self-Published a book together.
00:40:55:19 – 00:41:04:33
Agent Palmer
And then you start, then life happens. Oh, it’s really what happened. It’s like a whole lot of life, right?
00:41:04:33 – 00:41:21:31
Agent Palmer
Like I finally got a professional job. So I’m not working retail anymore, which changes my schedule drastically for travel. And I’m still dealing with anxiety, so I’m not coming up as much. You’re coming down, but we’re talking on a regular basis.
00:41:21:31 – 00:41:54:59
Jason Zapata
Yeah. And I so once things finally kind of stabilized for me and I got less awful jobs, they still weren’t good jobs by any stretch of the imagination, as you would know yourself, because I would convert to you all the time about this stuff. You know, it was an escape to come down to Lehigh Valley and, and visit and hang out with you and, over the slow, painful course of of years, I, you know, would say to you, I got to get out of.
00:41:55:03 – 00:41:56:23
Jason Zapata
Yeah, it’s great.
00:41:56:27 – 00:41:57:48
Agent Palmer
It’s one of those things where it was.
00:41:57:48 – 00:42:07:13
Agent Palmer
Like, all right, I, you know, in quiet moments with myself, it’s like, all right. Is, is he going to end up here? Is he going to end up somewhere in Philly? Like, I.
00:42:07:13 – 00:42:10:23
Agent Palmer
Knew I knew you were getting out of northeastern.
00:42:10:23 – 00:42:20:19
Agent Palmer
Pennsylvania. Nothing remotely close to north. Maybe eastern, but not north. And you were done. And it was like, I know you had toyed with the idea of maybe, some.
00:42:20:19 – 00:42:23:13
Agent Palmer
City stuff, but again, that that that.
00:42:23:13 – 00:42:24:47
Agent Palmer
Philly experience kind of.
00:42:24:48 – 00:42:28:58
Agent Palmer
You, you didn’t want to move into the city again. There was it wasn’t.
00:42:28:58 – 00:42:54:03
Jason Zapata
So much I wanted to move into the city again. It was just the the means to which I made those decisions. When looking back on it, it was hasty, and I didn’t have the career yet where I would have a solid foundation to make that type of move. So thus the five year, plan that I drove you crazy with, I was talking.
00:42:54:03 – 00:42:57:30
Agent Palmer
About all the time because we I’m going.
00:42:57:30 – 00:43:00:30
Agent Palmer
To fast forward for a moment like he gets here.
00:43:00:35 – 00:43:03:12
Agent Palmer
Hahaha. And we will we will backtrack.
00:43:03:12 – 00:43:05:32
Agent Palmer
But he gets here and he goes, I got a new five year plan. It’s like.
00:43:05:32 – 00:43:08:52
Agent Palmer
What the God like you, you got two year.
00:43:08:54 – 00:43:13:45
Agent Palmer
Three of your other five year plan. Now you’re starting a new one.
00:43:13:50 – 00:43:15:51
Agent Palmer
But so the other thing that’s.
00:43:15:51 – 00:43:32:49
Agent Palmer
Happened along this period of time is I build you a website, because it’s one of the things I was doing is my side project, and you start blogging and I don’t know when I start blogging in that problem, you start at first, I know that I’m the one who really took to it.
00:43:32:49 – 00:43:44:05
Jason Zapata
Somehow you got, you got to be bad, my friend. Yeah, you you you just. I start it and then you start, and then you just took off, like, it was just like. Like you were just gone.
00:43:44:05 – 00:43:46:22
Agent Palmer
But at the same time.
00:43:46:27 – 00:44:07:53
Agent Palmer
And I still get this from you. On occasion, I gave up like I, I don’t write the poetry anymore. I, I obviously did a solo episode a while back about the last short story I wrote, but I haven’t written a short story. I fictions just not. I don’t write it anymore, but I still needed that outlet. That was one thing that we always had.
00:44:07:58 – 00:44:17:39
Agent Palmer
You know, I and I would just be like, hey, I wrote this thing, take a look at it. And it’s just now a blog post and you’d still be like, hey, I wrote this thing, here’s a poem.
00:44:17:39 – 00:44:20:51
Agent Palmer
And look, we sit here today.
00:44:20:51 – 00:44:28:27
Agent Palmer
As very different creatives than we were when we first met. You couldn’t write a poem without rhyming.
00:44:28:31 – 00:44:36:49
Agent Palmer
If it if it didn’t rhyme, it wasn’t a poem. That’s not our word. It was. That’s that’s how it worked, man. And like Jerry.
00:44:36:49 – 00:44:38:03
Jason Zapata
Dogmatic about you.
00:44:38:03 – 00:44:40:01
Agent Palmer
Have seen you grow.
00:44:40:05 – 00:44:44:52
Agent Palmer
From that and to have written through the novel. And I told you and I, I.
00:44:44:53 – 00:44:46:36
Agent Palmer
Hope and I know you didn’t.
00:44:46:36 – 00:44:53:44
Agent Palmer
To the extent I wanted you to, but when you finish the first draft of that now, I wanted you to celebrate more than you did because.
00:44:53:49 – 00:44:57:09
Agent Palmer
I told you like. And I’ll tell you again, and I will tell you.
00:44:57:09 – 00:44:59:31
Agent Palmer
Every day until you publish it.
00:44:59:36 – 00:45:03:35
Agent Palmer
It’s still a massive achievement because people don’t finish.
00:45:03:35 – 00:45:10:38
Agent Palmer
Even the first manuscript. They get halfway, they get halfway on for, but they don’t finish.
00:45:10:38 – 00:45:11:14
Jason Zapata
Yeah.
00:45:11:19 – 00:45:13:29
Agent Palmer
And having done that and.
00:45:13:29 – 00:45:18:42
Agent Palmer
Created the end, that was. And because you brought me in like I felt like you were.
00:45:18:42 – 00:45:19:25
Jason Zapata
Very invested.
00:45:19:25 – 00:45:21:45
Agent Palmer
In the process. That was best. Oh yeah. It’s done.
00:45:21:45 – 00:45:24:21
Agent Palmer
Now. And when it was done, it was like, all right, you should celebrate.
00:45:24:21 – 00:45:29:52
Agent Palmer
And you immediately went, I got this other stuff to do. It’s like, all right, fair enough.
00:45:29:52 – 00:46:04:24
Jason Zapata
But I think I, it’s one of those things where once I can get to, And just as you said, adulting is such a, deranged brain. It’s funny, given the times that we live in, too. Like, did the myriad of crazy things that a successful adult has to do. It’s such a hard prospect to have that block of time and be of a state of mind where you can do that type of work.
00:46:04:29 – 00:46:23:45
Jason Zapata
So I want to get back to that. I, I really do. And, again, current events that kind of throw monkey wrenches into that, you know, if you’re if you’re lucky enough to even have a job right now, they’re trust me, they’re, they’re pointed the heel to you because they need to get as much work out of you as they can, because.
00:46:23:47 – 00:46:25:24
Agent Palmer
Indifference and what’s what’s.
00:46:25:24 – 00:46:32:10
Agent Palmer
Funny about it is you’ve been pushing off going back to the novel.
00:46:32:14 – 00:46:35:23
Agent Palmer
Since like at this point as as we.
00:46:35:30 – 00:46:41:57
Agent Palmer
Years. Yeah. Because I’m like, it’s time. And you’re like, no, no, no, no, it’s not.
00:46:42:10 – 00:46:44:23
Agent Palmer
And I understand.
00:46:44:28 – 00:46:47:04
Agent Palmer
How massive an undertaking this is going to be.
00:46:47:12 – 00:47:00:16
Jason Zapata
Well, that’s the editing process is when the actual art begins, like people do understand, it’s one thing to write something like that’s to make or break of it, is when you actually sit down and you you for.
00:47:00:21 – 00:47:02:11
Agent Palmer
And what’s funny is that you and I.
00:47:02:11 – 00:47:04:05
Agent Palmer
Have that process.
00:47:04:09 – 00:47:04:49
Agent Palmer
Down.
00:47:05:00 – 00:47:08:37
Agent Palmer
We don’t necessarily look, we aren’t the nicest people.
00:47:08:37 – 00:47:18:16
Agent Palmer
Like, I don’t want anyone to think that you hand me a piece and I’m like, oh, just tweak this comma, take out this syllable and you’ll be fine. No, you’re.
00:47:18:16 – 00:47:19:36
Jason Zapata
A tyrant with the right eye.
00:47:19:36 – 00:47:38:56
Agent Palmer
And no, I am, I am a trainer. I am yelling at you because you can do so much better. And it’s just from a place of love at this point, because it’s just like you can do better and and it’s it’s.
00:47:39:01 – 00:47:42:57
Agent Palmer
We we’ve already started the process of the second book of poetry, right? Yeah.
00:47:43:02 – 00:47:49:30
Agent Palmer
And when we started this, it was like, here we go again. And we went through a good chunk of the poems.
00:47:49:30 – 00:47:50:01
Agent Palmer
Right?
00:47:50:06 – 00:47:53:36
Agent Palmer
And it’s just like we know where we are.
00:47:53:45 – 00:48:08:14
Jason Zapata
Well, the thing of it is, the funny part of it was like we how quickly we fell into each other’s roles and the, the, the stratagems we had from the previous work. We already doing it like there was no.
00:48:08:14 – 00:48:15:58
Agent Palmer
And it’s so weird because again, we didn’t know what we were doing and it just worked out like, I don’t know if we could have planned it any better.
00:48:15:58 – 00:48:23:50
Agent Palmer
We don’t have to relearn a system. What worked before still works. In fact, it’s actually more streamlined now.
00:48:23:54 – 00:48:31:23
Agent Palmer
Google Docs has something, right? Because one of the things that first book of poetry was done in Excel and.
00:48:31:28 – 00:48:32:52
Agent Palmer
Not like a shared.
00:48:32:52 – 00:48:34:26
Agent Palmer
Excel, it was just like a.
00:48:34:27 – 00:48:35:36
Agent Palmer
Here are you looking.
00:48:35:36 – 00:48:45:02
Agent Palmer
At the most recent Excel doc here? Let me send it to you. Yeah. Hold on. What did I just download yesterday? No, that one’s too old. Like so much stuff or like. Oh, I don’t.
00:48:45:02 – 00:48:46:20
Agent Palmer
Have the right version or.
00:48:46:20 – 00:48:49:28
Agent Palmer
Oh, man, like, just so much solved.
00:48:49:28 – 00:49:03:00
Agent Palmer
But it’s fun creating with you. I think in our lifetime together, we’ve co-written maybe one poem together. Yeah. Like actually sat down, like we’re going to write together.
00:49:03:05 – 00:49:19:15
Agent Palmer
A lot of the times we take notebooks to like, a coffee shop. Yeah. And then just talk and don’t get any writing done at all. Like, which is par for us. Yeah. We’ve gone out with the intention of, like.
00:49:19:19 – 00:49:25:26
Agent Palmer
We’re going to do, we’re going to write together today. And it’s like, all right, well, three hours later.
00:49:25:26 – 00:49:33:56
Agent Palmer
Like there’s no words on the thing. Like three donuts have been consumed. Like we’re on our fifth cup of coffee. It’s like, all right, maybe.
00:49:34:00 – 00:49:40:40
Jason Zapata
But I do think that the springboard that we provide each other is, is very it’s it really helps.
00:49:40:40 – 00:49:41:14
Agent Palmer
And that’s.
00:49:41:14 – 00:49:45:06
Agent Palmer
Been since I mean, that’s from the beginning I, we.
00:49:45:06 – 00:49:47:22
Agent Palmer
Were as bad as they.
00:49:47:22 – 00:49:53:24
Agent Palmer
Are in hindsight when we think of them. We were always encouraging each other to do more.
00:49:53:26 – 00:49:55:48
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And it was never a competition.
00:49:55:48 – 00:50:14:34
Agent Palmer
It was never, I want to top you. I want to do better, which is like, no, look what I did. Yeah. And it’s like, no, look what I did. And it’s so different. But, like, you know, I. So whatever it is, man, it it’s just interesting that we’ve, we’ve managed to create that. And then.
00:50:14:39 – 00:50:15:57
Agent Palmer
You’re still.
00:50:16:02 – 00:50:27:05
Agent Palmer
My biggest. Like you should get back in the creative pursuits. And it’s like, well I like to think of the blog. Well it’s not creative writing as a creative pursuit podcast as a creative.
00:50:27:16 – 00:50:34:40
Agent Palmer
But that’s not what you want. Like there’s a part of you I know there’s a part of you that still wants like, he’s going to hand me a pole, a new pole.
00:50:34:40 – 00:50:54:03
Jason Zapata
I would love to see it just as much as you’re like, you would love to see me get cracking and get back to the novel, or just writing more, you know, substantive long form fiction and I would love to. Dude, you have no idea. I’m really burnt out from, you know, trying to cover as much ground as I’ve covered in the past couple of years.
00:50:54:03 – 00:51:04:09
Jason Zapata
And I trust me, if there is an if the world comes to a screeching end and, you know, things go south and we get a chance to have that time again, I trust me, I’ll use it.
00:51:04:09 – 00:51:05:38
Agent Palmer
I just I want to say there’s a.
00:51:05:38 – 00:51:09:23
Agent Palmer
Couple things, I want to point out.
00:51:09:28 – 00:51:11:40
Agent Palmer
You have seen me.
00:51:11:44 – 00:51:14:44
Agent Palmer
Through every major relationship I’ve ever.
00:51:14:44 – 00:51:16:04
Jason Zapata
Had. I have.
00:51:16:09 – 00:51:21:07
Agent Palmer
And I’ve made it a point because of who we are together.
00:51:21:09 – 00:51:24:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that. I’m like, they have to meet you.
00:51:24:30 – 00:51:30:35
Agent Palmer
Whether you were here or there or anywhere, like you have.
00:51:30:35 – 00:51:42:03
Agent Palmer
To meet Zapata. This is a nonstarter. And you’ve been superbly nice with all of us. Oh, yeah. And I’m not going to say who your favorites are.
00:51:42:08 – 00:51:44:47
Jason Zapata
I mean, come on now. Really? Really.
00:51:44:51 – 00:51:55:56
Agent Palmer
I don’t know who’s going to listen to this. Just being, you know, nice, polite. When have I ever been nice? That’s the face he gave me. He’s just.
00:51:56:00 – 00:52:05:36
Jason Zapata
I know we’re we’re becoming old curmudgeons, but, I, I, I will easily say that the the current Mrs. is, is the most suited to you. That’s fine.
00:52:05:38 – 00:52:11:18
Agent Palmer
But I just that’s been a thing. You you helped me move back.
00:52:11:23 – 00:52:12:33
Agent Palmer
From North Carolina.
00:52:12:35 – 00:52:13:05
Jason Zapata
Did.
00:52:13:05 – 00:52:14:30
Agent Palmer
And then you helped me move.
00:52:14:30 – 00:52:18:37
Agent Palmer
From my apartment into this house. And what did I do for you?
00:52:18:42 – 00:52:31:53
Agent Palmer
I went on vacation when you moved from to a mile and a half away. I went on vacation. Now what we did instead, and I say we because.
00:52:31:58 – 00:52:36:51
Agent Palmer
You know, was we we met with you in Scranton, literally.
00:52:36:51 – 00:52:38:23
Agent Palmer
Your last day.
00:52:38:23 – 00:52:40:00
Agent Palmer
Living there. And we.
00:52:40:00 – 00:52:40:28
Agent Palmer
Went out, which.
00:52:40:29 – 00:52:49:01
Jason Zapata
I joked hysterically about, I like you. You would finally visit me on the last day. I’m in the damn city, which is so funny. And we.
00:52:49:01 – 00:52:52:25
Agent Palmer
Went out to lunch and we went to a bookstore and we just kind of whatever.
00:52:52:26 – 00:52:58:21
Jason Zapata
Because I was I needed a break because at that point I’m living out of boxes. It was pretty ridiculous.
00:52:58:22 – 00:53:01:01
Agent Palmer
And then, as I promised.
00:53:01:06 – 00:53:02:50
Agent Palmer
You finished moving in on a.
00:53:02:50 – 00:53:13:43
Agent Palmer
Sunday and we made a homemade meal and had you come over and just kind of like, welcome, you’re done.
00:53:13:50 – 00:53:14:38
Jason Zapata
Decompressing.
00:53:14:41 – 00:53:16:12
Agent Palmer
It’s not all done, but like.
00:53:16:14 – 00:53:18:08
Agent Palmer
You’re done enough. You’re in.
00:53:18:13 – 00:53:20:13
Agent Palmer
And it was.
00:53:20:13 – 00:53:31:04
Agent Palmer
The first time since high school that you left a home I was living in with a five minute trip home.
00:53:31:04 – 00:53:34:17
Jason Zapata
Yeah, it was just like the old days. It was right back. Yeah.
00:53:34:17 – 00:53:40:44
Agent Palmer
It was. And then, I mean, I it’s not like, you know, and look.
00:53:40:49 – 00:53:47:21
Agent Palmer
You were understanding enough because, like, we had planned this trip to go up and see everybody.
00:53:47:26 – 00:53:49:05
Agent Palmer
Well, before you knew what.
00:53:49:05 – 00:53:57:43
Agent Palmer
Was happening with you. Yeah. So it was just kind of like, all right. And, you know, but I was I’m here like, it was like I, you know, I helped.
00:53:57:43 – 00:54:05:23
Agent Palmer
You move a couple bookcases afterwards. Like, it’s not like, whatever, but I just, I feel slightly guilty that I wasn’t there for that.
00:54:05:23 – 00:54:25:26
Jason Zapata
As you should. Know, it was super. It was. It was, unfortunately, due to the timing of when I accepted my new job and the the the time I had to find a home. It was a very short turnaround. It’s a very short window. Is less than a month.
00:54:25:33 – 00:54:26:33
Agent Palmer
But I did see you.
00:54:26:33 – 00:54:41:30
Agent Palmer
Three times when you were down scouting. And yeah, it was exciting to just go out to lunch or dinner whenever you and it’s been like, I understand because my partner has been like, don’t.
00:54:41:30 – 00:54:42:03
Agent Palmer
Be.
00:54:42:08 – 00:54:59:22
Agent Palmer
Needy with him. Like, you don’t have to be over there all the time. And I’m like, it doesn’t matter. Like, I feel like people need to understand it doesn’t matter if I don’t talk to you for a couple days or even a couple of weeks. I know where you are now and you’re closer to me, which makes it easier.
00:54:59:22 – 00:55:24:03
Agent Palmer
And I’ll just go over. But like, I can also spend five days in a row with you. It’s not. It’s whatever it is. And you know, I’ve been a player of Magic The Gathering for years. Your brother got you into it. And when I was driving up in up to Scranton all the time after college, before you were at the cabin, you know, we started playing and it was great to have you there.
00:55:24:03 – 00:55:29:24
Agent Palmer
And you’re here and we do game nights and we do drafts, and we even have like a Pathfinder campaign.
00:55:29:24 – 00:55:34:17
Agent Palmer
Going on, like it is just, I like I it’s the.
00:55:34:17 – 00:55:37:51
Jason Zapata
Continuation of all those shared interests over time.
00:55:37:51 – 00:55:42:49
Agent Palmer
Is everything that it was. Yeah. Before that it is.
00:55:42:49 – 00:55:50:30
Agent Palmer
Again which is just I don’t like what. Let’s see how trite I can be.
00:55:50:35 – 00:55:51:40
Agent Palmer
00:55:51:45 – 00:55:57:29
Jason Zapata
I think to coin a phrase that you so often do, how saccharin are you playing to be?
00:55:57:34 – 00:56:14:05
Agent Palmer
Well, so what I want to let you know is I don’t feel old when I’m with, like, when I’m with you. It’s just like we could still be in high school. I have no idea. Right? Like. Like there are times like I it’s. Yeah, it it goes to the.
00:56:14:05 – 00:56:18:43
Agent Palmer
Time in the cabin. Even when you’re here at my house, I own a house. When you’re here.
00:56:18:43 – 00:56:29:58
Agent Palmer
In my house, it’s like it’s 11:00. Like, I feel like it could be like, we have school tomorrow, and I’m still. It’s going to be like, 11:00, like and and and like every.
00:56:30:03 – 00:56:40:41
Agent Palmer
Kid of our generation, like, I also feel like it’s that, and we’ve both been responsible when we both left when we’ve needed to. But it’s not like we weren’t thinking like that one Nerf commercial.
00:56:40:41 – 00:56:57:29
Agent Palmer
Like just one more game, you know, like, come on, you can stay for one more movie. Yeah, one more episode, whatever it is. Like, we can go one more game. Like it’s not a problem. Like, whatever. And it’s just. That’s what it is, man. Like, it’s just it’s what it is. This past.
00:56:57:34 – 00:57:03:35
Agent Palmer
This past Thanksgiving and Christmas. You were here when other family were here, but.
00:57:03:48 – 00:57:12:10
Agent Palmer
You helped me cook the turkey. We cooked a Thanksgiving turkey. Yeah, yeah. And didn’t kill anyone?
00:57:12:10 – 00:57:34:45
Jason Zapata
No, we didn’t murder. The meal went very well. And that’s another, kind of adult thing that we do now is we often now cook meals for each other. I’ll bake something up sometimes and bring it over here, and, you know, you’ll I’ll share with your folks. So, you know, it’s nice to to have those shared activities and, and hang out that way, you know, it’s.
00:57:34:53 – 00:57:36:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I’m telling you right now.
00:57:36:35 – 00:57:40:49
Agent Palmer
15 year old me and 16 year old, you do not share recipes?
00:57:40:50 – 00:57:42:55
Agent Palmer
No, no. You know what I mean? Like, well.
00:57:43:02 – 00:58:01:29
Jason Zapata
And that’s the funny thing, as it doubles, we can be a little less like, I don’t know, this little less bravado at this point. It’s like, you know, and the guys pick on me, I’ll tell them I’m working on something in the kitchen and like, oh, you wearing high heels in the kitchen, too? Like, it’s like, dude, no, I’m an adult and I like to cook things.
00:58:01:29 – 00:58:03:28
Agent Palmer
But that’s one of the things that sets us.
00:58:03:28 – 00:58:05:45
Agent Palmer
Apart because I’m on the.
00:58:05:50 – 00:58:06:05
Agent Palmer
I’m.
00:58:06:05 – 00:58:07:00
Agent Palmer
On the fringe of that.
00:58:07:00 – 00:58:11:47
Agent Palmer
Group, too. And you and I, it’s a little different.
00:58:11:52 – 00:58:36:32
Jason Zapata
Yeah. Did we I everyone changed. They everyone’s kind of matured differently. And I think it’s a good thing. I think it’s a good thing that people kind of diversifying how they want to, you know, evolve, like what they want to do and their interest and again, their quirks, their, idiosyncrasies, which are more grating than others by far.
00:58:36:37 – 00:58:56:58
Jason Zapata
But, yeah, I, I, I don’t mind getting, getting grief from, from the guys. I think it’s funny, I, and I agree them to understand the more looney things that they do. So and I think that’s the wonderful thing about a friendship is that you got the ability to do that. You can drive each other crazy sometimes. And you know, you don’t end up killing each other, which is which is a good thing.
00:58:57:03 – 00:59:05:44
Agent Palmer
So all of this said, right, why are we still friends?
00:59:05:48 – 00:59:31:13
Jason Zapata
Why are we still friends? We’re masochist. Maybe, I don’t know, we’re still friends because we as much as we’ve, you know, evolved over time and, you know, gone, you know, changed over time, we still have that core set of interests, that shared history. I mean, where what are we almost up to 30? Like what? Let’s let’s just do the math, like.
00:59:31:19 – 00:59:54:52
Jason Zapata
Right. What was it like 1996, 97, 97, 96 or 97? So how many years is that now? Like it’s it’s 2020. So that’s that’s 24 years, man. That’s that’s no, there was small, amount of time. So, you know, when you know someone that long and they’re, they’re such a part of your life and they’re their family.
00:59:54:52 – 01:00:03:46
Jason Zapata
It’s such a part of your life. I mean, I talk to your folks, you know, quite a big. I love your mom and dad. Like, they treat me like family. And, you know, my folks love you.
01:00:03:46 – 01:00:10:20
Agent Palmer
Every time I call. Every time I call, it’s speaker phone. Everybody. Anybody, anybody. It doesn’t matter.
01:00:10:20 – 01:00:13:02
Agent Palmer
It’s your mother, your father, your brother, your sister.
01:00:13:11 – 01:00:21:13
Agent Palmer
Whoever’s in the house is like, hey, how are you doing? What? It’s like it’s just. It’s an event. When I call the house, you should.
01:00:21:13 – 01:00:28:23
Jason Zapata
At some point when I’m down there, also stop by. I know you don’t get around this much anymore, but they they would treat you like family. They would.
01:00:28:35 – 01:00:30:12
Agent Palmer
And and and they are family.
01:00:30:12 – 01:00:30:26
Jason Zapata
Yeah.
01:00:30:28 – 01:00:43:33
Agent Palmer
You know, I, I remember the first time I took. There’s been a couple times you were around and I’d take a girl and be like, this is my girlfriend.
01:00:43:38 – 01:00:45:20
Agent Palmer
And they’re. And they’re like, who?
01:00:45:20 – 01:00:53:42
Agent Palmer
Who are the. No, it’s they’re my parents. Like, there’s a lot of parents, but they’re they’re my parents too. Like you. You have to meet them. You can’t. Yeah. You can’t not meet them.
01:00:53:42 – 01:01:02:26
Agent Palmer
Because they’ve met everybody too. Whether you were around or not. Yeah, yeah. You know.
01:01:02:31 – 01:01:05:44
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s been one of the,
01:01:05:48 – 01:01:08:28
Agent Palmer
We’ve we are, it’s it family.
01:01:08:30 – 01:01:08:39
Agent Palmer
Like.
01:01:08:47 – 01:01:12:15
Jason Zapata
Exactly. That’s that’s the term. Yep.
01:01:12:20 – 01:01:24:03
Agent Palmer
It, you know, it’s it’s been very weird, having you back to because it’s just like, it is just like old times, but it’s it’s not like old times. Like I.
01:01:24:18 – 01:01:25:57
Agent Palmer
Old times.
01:01:26:02 – 01:01:30:07
Agent Palmer
I understand what those are. Old times don’t involve mortgages.
01:01:30:12 – 01:01:34:06
Agent Palmer
You know, like old times don’t involve, you know, do you, do.
01:01:34:06 – 01:01:38:58
Agent Palmer
I have to go grocery shopping for my, like, we used to go shopping? Sure. But, like.
01:01:39:03 – 01:01:42:07
Agent Palmer
We’re going to go get food for the party, you know, like this.
01:01:42:09 – 01:02:06:34
Jason Zapata
Or car issues or loan issues or all the conflict, the the ridiculous complexities that come with adulthood where you’re just did, you know, not even a thought and you’re in your eating. It’s like, you know, I would just love me now to be put in a room with me. Then I think me then would be just traumatize. It would be hysterical.
01:02:06:39 – 01:02:18:22
Agent Palmer
I don’t I, I, I feel like I’m very, I like, I don’t, but like when I’m sitting with you, it doesn’t feel like anything. Yeah. It’s just no, no, time is not.
01:02:18:24 – 01:02:36:51
Jason Zapata
I have a glorious ally during all this insanity and did did the enormous insanity of adulthood. It’s like, yes, it’s, and that’s the. Yeah, that’s one of the reasons why I moved here. It was just like, dude, I have my my best friends up here, and I have this, this exciting new job, and I have a support system.
01:02:36:51 – 01:02:43:27
Jason Zapata
And, you know, he has an awesome girlfriend who I’m friends with, too, so even better, you know, it’s it’s it’s good stuff, man.
01:02:43:27 – 01:02:45:15
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s been.
01:02:45:20 – 01:02:49:43
Agent Palmer
It’s been a wild ride because I, you still push me.
01:02:49:48 – 01:02:51:28
Jason Zapata
Yeah.
01:02:51:32 – 01:03:10:33
Agent Palmer
And I know that to some people in the outside, like I push you harder because there’s more tangible results there. Like, we’re, we’re working on the second book. We put out the first one, but like, your, your cheerleading just happens differently. And people don’t see like.
01:03:10:38 – 01:03:11:20
Agent Palmer
The.
01:03:11:25 – 01:03:28:00
Agent Palmer
Years of when are you going to like I think I’m over like a milestone, right? 500 posts, 600 posts, whatever it is for the blog, and it’s never been good enough for you. Like what? When am I going to see an original poem again?
01:03:28:04 – 01:03:29:18
Agent Palmer
Like, when are you going.
01:03:29:18 – 01:03:31:38
Agent Palmer
To write another short story? Like.
01:03:31:43 – 01:03:32:49
Agent Palmer
And I think you may.
01:03:32:49 – 01:03:39:35
Jason Zapata
Have dabbled with some song writing, I mean, I again, I not I don’t know if you, if you have, if you.
01:03:39:35 – 01:03:40:38
Agent Palmer
Were one of the few people that.
01:03:40:38 – 01:03:44:10
Agent Palmer
Have not heard me. Yeah. Sing an original song.
01:03:44:10 – 01:03:45:32
Jason Zapata
Yeah. So,
01:03:45:36 – 01:03:53:33
Agent Palmer
But you’ve been a big like, get back out there, do more, do more. You’re not doing enough creative.
01:03:53:38 – 01:03:56:23
Agent Palmer
And I. All right.
01:03:56:27 – 01:04:14:17
Jason Zapata
All the things in time. It’s just it’s one of those things. And I’m more guilty of it than you are, man. And. Yeah, at least you’re remotely, You you right now are scratching that creative itch like you’re you’re doing it. I my hat’s off to your brother. I wish I could, as much as you are right.
01:04:14:17 – 01:04:15:46
Jason Zapata
It’s just it’s tough.
01:04:15:51 – 01:04:28:46
Agent Palmer
I have the support system when I’m weak. I mean, the blog. I can’t remember it. I’m on an Iron Man streak, and I know it’s.
01:04:28:46 – 01:04:31:02
Agent Palmer
Just a weekly blog, but it’s not the.
01:04:31:02 – 01:04:44:41
Agent Palmer
Only thing I’ve got. And it’s just kind of like, I can’t, I, I, I don’t know when I last missed a Thursday, like, I just don’t, I know there were a couple where I was like really excited for it. So I put it out on Wednesday.
01:04:44:46 – 01:04:45:51
Agent Palmer
But like otherwise.
01:04:45:51 – 01:04:48:06
Agent Palmer
Like I’ve been like clockwork and it’s.
01:04:48:11 – 01:04:51:19
Agent Palmer
Again, I go back. It’s still weird that for people.
01:04:51:23 – 01:04:57:58
Agent Palmer
Like you who know me, it’s not enough. Like I get to scratch that itch, but you’re like.
01:04:58:03 – 01:05:01:13
Agent Palmer
But are you, though? Would you rather be.
01:05:01:13 – 01:05:02:49
Jason Zapata
Writing a short story or.
01:05:02:54 – 01:05:05:13
Agent Palmer
You’re one of the few people and I.
01:05:05:14 – 01:05:08:54
Agent Palmer
Have written a short story in the last few years, but it’s just one.
01:05:08:59 – 01:05:10:38
Agent Palmer
But you’re one of those few people that have seen.
01:05:10:38 – 01:05:23:12
Agent Palmer
Like the actual poetry and the other unfinished works. Because we’re close enough that I can share with you the unfinished thing.
01:05:23:17 – 01:05:32:32
Agent Palmer
And this series of episodes. You’re number one. Like I told you about this before I started the actual show.
01:05:32:34 – 01:05:33:25
Jason Zapata
Yeah. I was like.
01:05:33:30 – 01:05:34:27
Agent Palmer
Do you think we’re going to do.
01:05:34:29 – 01:05:57:45
Jason Zapata
You are very clear in saying that you want to do, a series of, of your old friends. You wanted to get them on your talk. And I think it’s cool. I think that it’s very, it’s a very underappreciated thing. I think that a lot of people scoff at and, you know, there’s a little bit of goofy mockery, you know, bromance and all this nonsense that goes on nowadays.
01:05:57:45 – 01:06:13:56
Jason Zapata
But to have, you know, a brother, you know, someone that you can rely on and someone who’s going to have your ear. And again, how many times was I on your porch over the course of how many years saying, you know, one day, one day, you know, you remember that?
01:06:13:56 – 01:06:16:50
Agent Palmer
So yeah, I mean, but but that one.
01:06:16:50 – 01:06:40:44
Agent Palmer
Day was a better job. Yeah. And that one day was coming down here or getting around here, and that one day was putting out a book, which we did. Yeah. And now it’s the next book and it’s I’ve been able I help when I can, you know, and with whatever I’ve got and you should blog more but that’s.
01:06:40:49 – 01:06:43:00
Agent Palmer
That’s his probably sailed. Yeah.
01:06:43:00 – 01:07:06:08
Jason Zapata
I don’t think blogging I mean, the only way I for see that happening would be, a change in job title. If right now the current job title I have within the company, I’m really happy with the company I work for, by the way. I don’t want people to think like, but, it’s just you’re very it’s very it’s very intense.
01:07:06:08 – 01:07:16:29
Jason Zapata
There’s, there’s a, there’s, a lot of time sensitive stuff you have to work on. It’s insurance stuff. It’s, you know, the and especially the current climate, you know.
01:07:16:30 – 01:07:17:42
Agent Palmer
Well, and I’ve been I.
01:07:17:42 – 01:07:32:23
Agent Palmer
Mean, I’ve been with you as you’ve gotten certification after certificate after certification. And again, it’s you you go hermit for a couple weeks to study and then you come out and we make you a dinner and it’s.
01:07:32:28 – 01:07:34:46
Agent Palmer
You know, like, hey, you know, I.
01:07:34:51 – 01:07:54:02
Agent Palmer
I understand, I think that you and I have a better communication system now, and I’m not talking like, oh, he’s just a few blocks that way I can just go over. And if the car’s there, I know I can, you know, barge in because we.
01:07:54:07 – 01:07:57:05
Agent Palmer
We’ve got keys. Yeah, but it’s also.
01:07:57:05 – 01:08:13:29
Agent Palmer
Like, I can talk to you now in a way that I think we were at a loss for words, I think sometimes. And we never came to blows and we never got near the arguments or fights. But I think there were times when it was like, I don’t know what the fuck he’s saying.
01:08:13:34 – 01:08:33:14
Agent Palmer
What the fuck? Yeah, I don’t or like, why? Why are you so upset? What what is going on? And it’s like, we’ve gotten to a point now where that’s never we’re never going to ask why, like, oh, I know why you’re upset, you know, or like, I like whatever it is, like, oh, I yeah, I know that tone.
01:08:33:17 – 01:08:36:40
Jason Zapata
Yeah, I know where this is going. I know why he’s being such a grouch.
01:08:36:40 – 01:08:54:25
Agent Palmer
And that was that was the weird part about the second book of poetry. It’s just kind of like you need to write what? I know where this is going. I’ve heard this before, like. And it’s great because we’ve got it down. Yeah. And I think the good.
01:08:54:25 – 01:09:02:47
Agent Palmer
News for us is it’s applicable to everything, whether it’s the next book of poetry, the novel.
01:09:02:52 – 01:09:30:14
Jason Zapata
Fucking just the friendship in general. It’s just again, it’s knowing the person’s text and accepting the text. And that’s that’s a big part of it. Like, you know, I can be irritating as a as all I know it, I know I am and I A-hole tendencies. I’ve joked with my friends, I have certain A-hole tendencies sometimes. So, you know, and I apologize to them when I can and I try to limit them, you know, and, you know.
01:09:30:28 – 01:09:34:54
Agent Palmer
Well, I think my anxiety, which I was you.
01:09:34:54 – 01:09:46:14
Agent Palmer
Were one of the 2 or 3 people that I told everything to like. I’m sure you listened to that anxiety episode, and one did. I know all of this.
01:09:46:14 – 01:09:47:20
Agent Palmer
Like, none of this is nudie.
01:09:47:31 – 01:10:05:18
Jason Zapata
I know actually there is a lot I learned about that episode. You know, I didn’t know that. And I and I even talk to you about it afterwards. And like you, during those times, it’s. You call me for it, guys. Just so everyone knows, I hate the phone. Like I.
01:10:05:21 – 01:10:08:28
Agent Palmer
Absolutely dude, I know, yeah, I know he’s gotten.
01:10:08:28 – 01:10:09:19
Agent Palmer
Better, but.
01:10:09:30 – 01:10:28:01
Jason Zapata
Not by much. I hate because my previous jobs, I was on the phone all the time. So I have a very deep phone aversion. I hate being on the damn phone. So, you know, when you were discussing that and I felt so guilty, I felt so bad. And he was like, no, I don’t worry about I don’t rely on you for that.
01:10:28:01 – 01:10:31:08
Jason Zapata
I’m like, oh, I feel kind of bad for a second that like, okay, that’s okay though.
01:10:31:08 – 01:10:35:25
Agent Palmer
That’s yeah. Like I didn’t like I, I caught you were in the list of people I.
01:10:35:25 – 01:10:37:06
Agent Palmer
Called you were never the first because I.
01:10:37:06 – 01:10:41:37
Agent Palmer
Knew like, even so even to establish.
01:10:41:37 – 01:10:45:35
Agent Palmer
Going up to the cabin was like me calling him five times.
01:10:45:40 – 01:10:46:21
Agent Palmer
I don’t leave.
01:10:46:21 – 01:10:47:22
Agent Palmer
Voicemails for you.
01:10:47:30 – 01:10:50:35
Agent Palmer
I mean, I do, and they’re funny and they’re not. But I know.
01:10:50:35 – 01:10:51:59
Agent Palmer
I’m going to call back in an hour because.
01:10:52:01 – 01:10:54:08
Agent Palmer
I, I want to yeah.
01:10:54:12 – 01:11:07:02
Agent Palmer
Get you. Hey, are you coming over this week or. Hey, I’m coming up to the cabin or, like, whatever it is, like, I look, we’ve we’ve been at this for quite a while. Like, it’s 25.
01:11:07:02 – 01:11:10:45
Jason Zapata
I was 25 years, you know, it’s.
01:11:10:45 – 01:11:12:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it it’s what it is, man.
01:11:12:53 – 01:11:33:53
Agent Palmer
I mean, I like I’ll, I’ll, I’ll try and answer it. Like, why are we still friends? Like. Yeah. I mean, you could say it’s idiosyncrasies in this, that and the other thing and you could say it’s shared experiences, but like I love you like it’s just like that happened and I don’t I’m not going to say it happened recently.
01:11:33:53 – 01:11:51:32
Agent Palmer
Like I loved you then. Like it like at a certain point, probably somewhere either just like towards the end of college for us or just after. It was like, no, that’s it. Like, I’ve got him. He’s my friend for life. Like, that’s.
01:11:51:32 – 01:11:55:16
Agent Palmer
It, that’s it. Like one of the times, because you.
01:11:55:21 – 01:12:02:11
Agent Palmer
I spent a summer living in North Carolina, and while you helped me move back from that, like.
01:12:02:16 – 01:12:06:10
Agent Palmer
We went to Foam Henge, man, we don’t exist anymore.
01:12:06:15 – 01:12:07:11
Jason Zapata
So sad.
01:12:07:22 – 01:12:10:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but they’re like, somewhere in.
01:12:10:40 – 01:12:14:29
Agent Palmer
I think it was Virginia. Somewhere in the rolling hills of Virginia.
01:12:14:33 – 01:12:17:28
Agent Palmer
Existed a.
01:12:17:30 – 01:12:20:07
Jason Zapata
Replica, a foam.
01:12:20:11 – 01:12:22:25
Agent Palmer
Replica of Stonehenge. Yeah. And it.
01:12:22:25 – 01:12:22:55
Jason Zapata
Was epic.
01:12:23:04 – 01:12:27:03
Agent Palmer
We stopped and we walked around and we joked, and there was a statue.
01:12:27:03 – 01:12:27:54
Agent Palmer
Of Merlin.
01:12:28:06 – 01:12:30:46
Jason Zapata
I think a Dragon two. And I made me my heavy.
01:12:30:50 – 01:12:33:30
Agent Palmer
And it was it was amazing.
01:12:33:30 – 01:12:36:58
Agent Palmer
But the point was like, we were there.
01:12:36:58 – 01:12:38:41
Agent Palmer
We that was the thing we did.
01:12:38:43 – 01:12:39:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Right.
01:12:39:58 – 01:12:44:37
Agent Palmer
It goes on the list of everything else we’ve done. It’s exciting.
01:12:44:37 – 01:12:48:45
Jason Zapata
Yeah, it’s having a brother. It’s like that’s that’s the, that’s the awesome thing about well.
01:12:48:45 – 01:12:50:19
Agent Palmer
I guess I but this is.
01:12:50:19 – 01:12:51:14
Agent Palmer
The point where we say.
01:12:51:14 – 01:13:01:06
Agent Palmer
This. If it hasn’t become apparent yet, I have no siblings. So when when when you say like.
01:13:01:06 – 01:13:01:58
Agent Palmer
Having a brother.
01:13:01:58 – 01:13:05:21
Agent Palmer
You have a brother. You you understand what that means?
01:13:05:21 – 01:13:06:38
Jason Zapata
I do.
01:13:06:42 – 01:13:07:54
Agent Palmer
I had to get it from.
01:13:07:54 – 01:13:10:20
Agent Palmer
You and from some a few others.
01:13:10:25 – 01:13:19:06
Agent Palmer
And all of you put up with my self-centered bullshit. And it’s like, no, this is how we do this. It’s like, no, we don’t.
01:13:19:10 – 01:13:41:59
Jason Zapata
Well, like I said, even even on those first couple meetings, like, you always had that moxie, you always didn’t let age or, you know, differences bother you. You’re always very just let’s just do this. Yeah.
01:13:42:04 – 01:14:07:40
Agent Palmer
Wikipedia defines friendship as a relationship of mutual affection between people. My trusty funk and wag knows defines it as a mutual regard cherished by kindred minds. Both are accurate, and while the 2nd May be more to my liking, and not just because it’s much more poetic friendship. While it can be defined by definition, is mainly defined by experience.
01:14:07:45 – 01:14:34:42
Agent Palmer
Whether you are still, as I am, friends with someone from high school or college, or someone from long ago, or more recently, you don’t need a definition of who your friends are. You just know. But how do you know? That’s the whole reason for this four episode series. Perhaps there will be some commonality between my four closest friends, but perhaps I’m the only common theme.
01:14:34:47 – 01:15:00:16
Agent Palmer
No matter the theme, the consistencies, or the aberrations, one thing remains true. These are my friends. By any definition. Thanks for listening to The Polymer Files episode 25. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion.
01:15:00:25 – 01:15:37:06
Agent Palmer
You can tweet me at Agent Palmer and the show at the Palmer Files. You can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com, and all links will be available in the show notes. Email can be sent to the show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. If you have any feedback on this series or any previous episode, or if there’s a topic or guest you’d like me to consider, you can also hear more of me in the meantime on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Meyer and my other gig as co-host of the podcast digest with Dan was that.
01:15:37:11 – 01:16:17:18
Agent Palmer
He.
01:16:17:22 – 01:16:26:44
Agent Palmer
All right. Jason Zappala. I’m trying to be formal, but not be formal. Do you have one final question for me?
01:16:26:49 – 01:16:49:38
Jason Zapata
I do, and I think people have a laugh out of this, no less. How awful were we when we hopped out of the Black Lives train? After we were struck from behind and started cheering that there was no damage when for Stacey, who is behind us, was sobbing.
01:16:49:43 – 01:16:55:35
Agent Palmer
Okay, so clarification right? It’s high school. You know, we didn’t know.
01:16:55:35 – 01:17:05:12
Agent Palmer
Each other for that long. We’re probably in the first year of even knowing each other. And it’s, early dismissal for Thanksgiving break and we’re dry. Yeah.
01:17:05:14 – 01:17:20:24
Agent Palmer
He’s taking me home. You know, we’re driving down. And you had this fucking amazing Lebaron. Like that thing was made of steel.
01:17:20:24 – 01:17:27:24
Agent Palmer
It was an iron man, a super man, and a Batman all in one. It just it survived somehow. Right.
01:17:27:28 – 01:17:28:35
Agent Palmer
And there.
01:17:28:35 – 01:17:32:09
Agent Palmer
Was a car in front of us, you know, kids are leaving.
01:17:32:09 – 01:17:32:41
Agent Palmer
School.
01:17:32:54 – 01:17:36:14
Agent Palmer
Somebody walked out in front. Somebody stopped short. Somebody else stopped short.
01:17:36:23 – 01:17:39:13
Agent Palmer
We stopped. And the person behind us, not.
01:17:39:19 – 01:17:40:05
Jason Zapata
So lucky.
01:17:40:08 – 01:17:43:39
Agent Palmer
Doesn’t stop. And right into the back rear end.
01:17:43:39 – 01:17:47:39
Jason Zapata
And I think someone hit her, too. I think it was. I think there was at least three there.
01:17:47:40 – 01:17:55:12
Agent Palmer
There’s a chain reaction behind us and we both look at each other. We both get out. We walk.
01:17:55:12 – 01:17:55:32
Agent Palmer
Around.
01:17:55:32 – 01:17:58:21
Agent Palmer
To the back. There’s no damage.
01:17:58:35 – 01:17:59:44
Agent Palmer
To the Lebaron.
01:17:59:49 – 01:18:04:13
Agent Palmer
None. Perfectly fine. And like we look.
01:18:04:13 – 01:18:09:13
Agent Palmer
In the car behind us, someone’s kind of crying. Some tears are starting to form.
01:18:09:15 – 01:18:12:46
Jason Zapata
Oh, no. There, there. There’s kind of crying. There is, there is sobbing.
01:18:12:46 – 01:18:27:00
Agent Palmer
Trying to be nice. Try to be nice. And we just got right packing and left. And I remember hearing somebody say, like, you should stay. Yeah, we were wrong.
01:18:27:00 – 01:18:41:47
Jason Zapata
It was terrible. I mean, we were literally we’re not supposed to do that. I don’t think it’s even occurred to me. I was so jubilant and happy that my car wasn’t damaged. It didn’t even occur to me. I was like, oh, we.
01:18:41:48 – 01:18:45:24
Agent Palmer
Like that on this one. It’s like just to come through.
01:18:45:29 – 01:19:03:57
Jason Zapata
And yeah, there was there was at least three other cars behind us there. There are smashed up and I, I know I forget her last name. I know it was, Stacy. And I felt looking back, I fell back. You’re so upset. I should have checked on her. And you know the things I would do now. It’s just at the time, it didn’t even occur to me.
01:19:03:57 – 01:19:05:56
Jason Zapata
I was just so, so happy.
01:19:06:01 – 01:19:06:44
Agent Palmer
We were young.
01:19:06:53 – 01:19:07:33
Jason Zapata
We were.
01:19:07:38 – 01:19:11:18
Agent Palmer
And yet we were still willing to get in trouble.
01:19:11:23 – 01:19:13:33
Jason Zapata
You know, I’m hoping we still are.
01:19:13:38 – 01:19:16:33
Agent Palmer
I mean, you know, the joke has always been.
01:19:16:38 – 01:19:18:11
Agent Palmer
If I ever need to bury a body.
01:19:18:20 – 01:19:19:29
Jason Zapata
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
01:19:19:34 – 01:19:26:39
Agent Palmer
But it’s not a joke. And you’ve helped me move, which has got to be worse than burying a body. So.
01:19:26:43 – 01:19:26:59
Agent Palmer
Right.
01:19:27:01 – 01:19:32:56
Jason Zapata
Yeah, I, you know, did either or, you know, you know, if it’s someone I’m usually hate, then it’s not really, you know.
01:19:33:03 – 01:19:33:35
Agent Palmer
Not really sure.
01:19:33:44 – 01:19:37:38
Jason Zapata
Yeah. Then yeah I’m happy to, you know, go go six feet deep a fair enough. Yeah.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).