Episode 26 features a friend of Agent Palmer’s Christopher J. Hughes as the second of a four-part series on friendship by examining one up close.
What you are about to hear is simple and yet complex. This episode and the others like it all contain four main questions.
- Why are we friends?
- How did we meet?
- How did we become friends?
- Why are we still friends?
Through the answers to those questions, the discussions and the stories that ensue, Christopher J. Hughes and I will dive deep into our shared past, and the meaning of and perhaps the reason for our friendship.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
PeterParkerPa.com
TriforceDad1984.com
Twitch.tv/TriforceDad1984
‘Breath of the Wild’ is a modern marvel in video game history
To Change Your Luck by Jason Stershic (Episode 24)
You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:22:58
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com. Danny Trejo’s new cookbook is a love letter to L.A.. It was nice to meet Bernard Sampson and Burlingame. And I failed to mention last week. It’s a party. Was the first return guest of this podcast. This is The Palmer Files, episode 26 with my friend Chris Hughes. This is the second of four episodes discussing friendship by examining one up close.
00:00:23:02 – 00:00:57:58
Agent Palmer
Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:58:03 – 00:01:26:21
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 26th episode is the second of four episodes about friendship. Continuing with a friend from college. All male friendships are essentially quixotic. They last only so long as each man is willing to polish the shaving bowl helmet, climb on his donkey, and ride off after the other in pursuit of elusive glory and questionable adventure.
00:01:26:26 – 00:01:52:20
Agent Palmer
That quote comes from Michael Chabon novel Wonder Boys, which is apt for my friend and guest of honor. Chris Hughes. The novel itself is set around a small college, which is the setting where I met Chris, and the part about elusive glory and questionable adventure. Well, you’ll get there as the episode moves along. What you are about to hear is simple and yet complex.
00:01:52:25 – 00:02:15:55
Agent Palmer
This episode and the others like it all contain four main questions. Why are we friends? How did we meet? How did we become friends? Why are we still friends? Through the answers to those questions, the discussions and the stories that ensue. Chris and I will dive deep into our shared past and the meaning of and perhaps reason for, our friendship.
00:02:16:00 – 00:02:38:45
Agent Palmer
Before we get into it, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or after, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, the show at The Palmer Files, or Chris at Triforce Dad 1984, which is also his handle on Instagram, and where you can watch him stream on Twitch. That’s Triforce dad 1984 email can be sent to the show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com.
00:02:38:45 – 00:02:54:20
Agent Palmer
And don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:54:25 – 00:02:57:54
Agent Palmer
Chris, why are we friends?
00:02:57:59 – 00:03:16:09
Christopher J. Hughes
That’s a great question. I think that we are friends because time has not thrown us apart. And because we’re willing to support and improve each other’s crazy ideas.
00:03:16:14 – 00:03:19:02
Agent Palmer
Are they crazy, though?
00:03:19:07 – 00:03:20:06
Christopher J. Hughes
Many of them are.
00:03:20:08 – 00:03:28:24
Agent Palmer
Okay. And, hey, that’s fair. And like, we we as people will find out if we cover everything.
00:03:28:24 – 00:03:31:07
Agent Palmer
Like, we’ve, we’ve done some shit.
00:03:31:11 – 00:03:54:15
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. And we got some ground, so let’s not give them everything. But. Yeah, I mean, yeah, not every idea we’ve had is crazy, but, like, we’ve we’ve definitely done out of the box things that, like a lesser person or let’s even say a lesser friend would be like, you’re ridiculous. Why would you think about doing this? Why would you want to spend your time on this?
00:03:54:20 – 00:04:10:08
Christopher J. Hughes
No. I’m out. That is not what you and I have built. You and I, it sounds corny, but we kind of nurture and and like, we we water the garden of each other’s ridiculousness. So.
00:04:10:13 – 00:04:20:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it’s it’s always been a challenge. Not, a put down. Right. It’s like I want to do this, and it’s like, well, why? Or like, well, maybe if you.
00:04:20:13 – 00:04:21:31
Christopher J. Hughes
Did this, it could be better.
00:04:21:31 – 00:04:23:48
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. But it’s never been like.
00:04:23:53 – 00:04:32:23
Christopher J. Hughes
No, I don’t think there’s ever been a no. There’s definitely been a not right now. Yes. And especially like, because there’s.
00:04:32:27 – 00:04:36:23
Agent Palmer
Like, there’s been a lot of not right now and especially.
00:04:36:23 – 00:04:53:41
Christopher J. Hughes
Because like you’re. Yeah I am and we’ll I’m sure we’ll talk about this but like you’re, you’re the planner of the two of us. You can see, you know, three months into the future where I can’t see three days ahead of me, I can’t, you know, I can’t see Tuesday from here because I don’t know what’s going to happen.
00:04:53:45 – 00:04:57:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I yeah, I.
00:04:57:48 – 00:05:10:15
Agent Palmer
There how countless times I mean I’m trying to think of like a number but it’s like I feel like one in every four phone calls that we have. Is you going come back?
00:05:10:20 – 00:05:15:17
Agent Palmer
When we’re not there, we’re not. Yeah. It’s a problem for future me, right?
00:05:15:18 – 00:05:20:44
Christopher J. Hughes
Every time I had to tell you, I’m not there yet. We. We would both be retired.
00:05:20:53 – 00:05:24:18
Agent Palmer
We would be like, three times over. Retired?
00:05:24:23 – 00:05:27:06
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:05:27:10 – 00:05:32:44
Agent Palmer
All right, time to go back to the beginning, Chris. How did we meet?
00:05:32:49 – 00:05:43:29
Christopher J. Hughes
So we met, as college students, we. I started college at a small private college in northeastern Pennsylvania. I don’t know, do you name.
00:05:43:29 – 00:05:45:44
Agent Palmer
Drop? I have already name dropped.
00:05:45:54 – 00:06:10:24
Christopher J. Hughes
All right, so we met when I started at Keystone College. I don’t remember what your role was in 2002, but you were like. You were sort of like a big man on campus. You were well known. I don’t know that you were well respected. You were definitely some kind of troublemaker. But, like, you were.
00:06:10:29 – 00:06:12:55
Christopher J. Hughes
The you were like, the.
00:06:12:55 – 00:06:37:09
Christopher J. Hughes
Quintessential, like, Holy shit. It’s that guy on a college campus that I had seen you in. So many movies. You had long hair, you had a bomb ass beard, you had a flying V guitar, and you had the best nickname because everybody on campus at that time in your life called you Jesus.
00:06:37:20 – 00:06:38:22
Agent Palmer
It’s true, it’s true.
00:06:38:23 – 00:06:44:05
Christopher J. Hughes
And how do you being raised Catholic? How do you not try to become friends with Jesus?
00:06:44:19 – 00:06:46:08
Agent Palmer
Well, so.
00:06:46:12 – 00:07:01:14
Agent Palmer
If if the yearbook and a few pictures are to be believed, the first time we met was actually at your orientation, because that year I was an orientation counselor.
00:07:01:15 – 00:07:02:34
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. An OTL. Yeah.
00:07:02:36 – 00:07:23:39
Agent Palmer
As, as I, I mean, that was the year I was everything, but like I it started it it started before everything started. So because I there’s a, there’s a picture in one of the yearbooks somewhere of me overlooking a group of pre freshmen, and you are in that group.
00:07:23:44 – 00:07:25:21
Christopher J. Hughes
Wow. That year. But you know what?
00:07:25:21 – 00:07:46:12
Christopher J. Hughes
Knowing my personality at that time, that makes enough sense. I would have sought out like I don’t know if advice is the right word or guidance is the right word, but like I would have sought out that sort of person that wasn’t OTL and like that I could try to connect with to try and feel more comfortable on campus so that that makes sense.
00:07:46:12 – 00:07:49:22
Christopher J. Hughes
But I didn’t remember that.
00:07:49:27 – 00:08:13:32
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I have, I don’t know why I remember that. I think it’s because I, I mean, I was also kind of on the yearbook, so I remember pictures and stuff, like, I, I because visually the memory is easier, like, it’s easier, like, I don’t remember the day. Right. But I remember I, I have because it’s been, you know, 16 years since I graduated, almost 20 years since I’ve known you.
00:08:13:32 – 00:08:17:21
Agent Palmer
Like, I remember the picture in the yearbook.
00:08:17:26 – 00:08:21:08
Agent Palmer
More than the actual day of the picture.
00:08:21:13 – 00:08:27:02
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, and it’s funny because, like, you would have been easier to pick out in a crowd than I would have been.
00:08:27:07 – 00:08:32:51
Agent Palmer
You remember that year we had tie dye orientation counselor shirts do.
00:08:33:01 – 00:08:34:42
Agent Palmer
So we did the the.
00:08:34:42 – 00:08:38:19
Agent Palmer
Long hair and the beard with the tie dye like I was the only one.
00:08:38:19 – 00:08:40:31
Agent Palmer
Who didn’t look out of place that you knew.
00:08:40:38 – 00:08:47:21
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, right. Like you looked like you walked out of the 1960s yearbook instead of a 2001. Yeah, yeah.
00:08:47:26 – 00:09:14:46
Agent Palmer
So this is where, I always get a blur. You know why we’re friends is one thing. And how we met is another. But how did we become friends from that? Do you know what I mean? Because, like, we meet and then you obviously come to, you know, I mean, we we met at orientation, then you you actually come to campus and you’re living on campus, but it’s not like you get there on day one.
00:09:14:46 – 00:09:32:31
Agent Palmer
And we’re friends like, that’s. But I don’t know how it transpires, because before the end of that first semester, I, I can list all like, you’re eating easy, Mac in my room. I’m waking you up for class in them or attempting to wake you up.
00:09:32:31 – 00:09:34:56
Agent Palmer
For class and failing. We already like, we’re we’re.
00:09:34:56 – 00:09:41:47
Agent Palmer
Playing video games to get, like, all of these things by the end of the semester. But I don’t know.
00:09:41:52 – 00:09:46:17
Agent Palmer
How that happens.
00:09:46:21 – 00:10:10:02
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. And like, I’m trying I’ve been trying to think about it because you you did you you gave me the pre press conference prepper. Right. And I appreciate that. But I think what it was is, is we, we kind of fell into this circle of other people that I think we’re still fortunate, to be connected to in some way, shape or form.
00:10:10:11 – 00:10:41:05
Christopher J. Hughes
And interestingly enough, due to some recent tomfoolery that we’ve gotten involved in, we’ve been able to reconnect with some of those folks. But if I had to guess, it was probably a combination of meeting the girl who is now my wife, and the friendship circle that she had developed while she was living in a different hall. And then just like, yep, you were part of a bigger group of people on campus that I also really connected with.
00:10:41:08 – 00:11:04:32
Christopher J. Hughes
And I think that shared group of friends and that, you know, also living on a college campus there, especially a college campus, I don’t think Keystone had a huge capacity for residential students. So there were certain people that we saw all of the time. Yeah, I make the joke because I pick on you all the time because we’ve been friends for almost 20 years.
00:11:04:36 – 00:11:27:05
Christopher J. Hughes
But, you know, there’s a Simpsons episode where Bart, starts dating Rainier Wolf Castle’s daughter, and he brings Milhouse over to the house to go swimming. And, like Milhouse appears, like, out of the bushes and he’s like, Bart says, this is my best friend because physical proximity like.
00:11:27:06 – 00:11:29:06
Christopher J. Hughes
And so we.
00:11:29:06 – 00:11:53:35
Christopher J. Hughes
Just we were all together all the time, and because we were together all the time and didn’t drive each other absolutely crazy. I think that might be part of it. But, like, you were definitely, where there were a lot of things that happened that came to a head in the second semester, I will say, because, you know, you can become friends, but I think you stay friends for a different reason.
00:11:53:35 – 00:11:57:06
Christopher J. Hughes
And I hope I’m not stepping on another of your questions.
00:11:57:10 – 00:11:57:53
Christopher J. Hughes
But and, and.
00:11:57:54 – 00:12:27:16
Agent Palmer
We’ll get to that. But I guess the question becomes like, all right. So it’s physical proximity. It’s it’s kind of shared interests. Although it’s shared interests is a cop out. And I will say that because that whole group had fairly similar interests, I think what ends up happening is somehow it’s in the stars like our other the, the intangibles, you know, in sports it’s like, oh, he’s tall, he’s fast, but he’s got the intangibles, right?
00:12:27:21 – 00:12:54:38
Agent Palmer
You and I, our intangibles lined up. We didn’t know it at the time like we know it now. Right. Like our creative pursuits, our creative passions are, workaholic mentalities. You know, all of these things, right? That in hindsight, we can start naming them off. And there’s a ton more I’m not. I’m leaving out. But at that time, they’re the intangibles because we aren’t thinking about them and we aren’t really living up to those things.
00:12:54:43 – 00:13:01:33
Agent Palmer
But those lined up for us more than they did for anyone else. And it’s just kind of like, that’s the way it was.
00:13:01:33 – 00:13:12:41
Christopher J. Hughes
And and it’s weird because, like, if you were to say if you were to like give a Ted talk on like, how do you become friends with someone like you wouldn’t say, think about your intangibles.
00:13:12:42 – 00:13:14:21
Christopher J. Hughes
Like, that’s such a weird.
00:13:14:26 – 00:13:36:23
Christopher J. Hughes
Like I would, I like I agree with you wholeheartedly in sentiment, but like, we’re we’re talking about friendship and not necessarily how you become friends with other people. Like this is a self-help seminar, but like, yeah, you’re absolutely right. I think there were just so many different things that crossed over and and the like, you know, there were a lot of things that didn’t cross over.
00:13:36:23 – 00:13:48:04
Christopher J. Hughes
You know, as I came to learn more about, you were a runner. And in high school, I was a soccer player, you know, you played guitar. Well, I played guitar not so well. Like, you know, there’s.
00:13:48:09 – 00:13:49:55
Christopher J. Hughes
There’s all those things, but like, they but.
00:13:49:55 – 00:13:51:15
Christopher J. Hughes
They lined up.
00:13:51:20 – 00:14:06:10
Agent Palmer
Well. So. Yeah, I mean, just I’ll, I’ll just, I’ll springboard off of those two things. One, we played together many, many times. You’re the better singer, but we’ve also just jammed together a better than me. You’re the better of the two of us.
00:14:06:11 – 00:14:08:37
Agent Palmer
I’m. I’m giving you this. I know you’re giving me the.
00:14:08:37 – 00:14:14:14
Agent Palmer
Maybe, but of the two of us, you are the better singer. We’ve jammed together.
00:14:14:14 – 00:14:15:59
Christopher J. Hughes
Better. Let’s.
00:14:16:03 – 00:14:34:47
Agent Palmer
Both switching off on bass or guitar or both or what have you. Yeah, and I remember years ago, I literally drove up to see you and ran with you for a weekend when you were attempting to train for a marathon.
00:14:34:52 – 00:14:36:14
Christopher J. Hughes
My God, that was so long ago.
00:14:36:14 – 00:14:37:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah, because.
00:14:37:09 – 00:14:42:55
Agent Palmer
You were like, hey, I think I’m going to do this. And I was like, well, I’m not doing anything for the next couple days. I’ll come up and run with you.
00:14:43:00 – 00:14:52:10
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. I don’t think you were as far away physically now as you were. I think you were closer then than you are now.
00:14:52:19 – 00:15:13:15
Agent Palmer
No, I was down here at that point. Were you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah that was but but that was again. And I mean I talk about pre and post me in, in, in these episodes because it’s, it’s something I can say and you’re the last pre. Right. You’re the, you know so it was a part of knew me before Israel.
00:15:13:20 – 00:15:42:22
Agent Palmer
You’re the person who knows me before Palmer and before anxiety. Everybody else is knowing me after anxiety. And after or as a result of Palmer. So it’s it’s one of those things that like that was pre anxiety. That was when I could do anything and I could travel without. Yeah. Cause or warrant and it’s, you know I came up when.
00:15:42:29 – 00:15:52:54
Agent Palmer
So look what happens. Let’s go let’s, let’s try and stay on on on the trajectory. What happens that second semester, Chris.
00:15:52:59 – 00:16:19:48
Christopher J. Hughes
So part of our friendship overlaps with, the rest of my life, which, I mean, friendship kind of does, but, like, in a very unique and in separable way. Right? So that’s. So when I got to Keystone, you were one of the first people I saw, and then one of the second people I saw continues to knock me off my feet every single day of my life.
00:16:19:48 – 00:16:31:25
Christopher J. Hughes
And I’m thankful for that. Because I met I met my wife at Keystone, didn’t get a degree, got the best wife on the planet. So.
00:16:31:29 – 00:16:32:34
Agent Palmer
It’s a solid trade, man.
00:16:32:45 – 00:16:41:54
Christopher J. Hughes
Solid trade. Because who’s doing what with an art degree right now? Unless you got a business degree to back it up. But that’s another topic for another time.
00:16:41:59 – 00:16:51:37
Agent Palmer
So yeah, that’s a that’s a follow up podcast of like, why? Why not to get an art degree.
00:16:51:41 – 00:16:52:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. I could have a lot.
00:16:52:43 – 00:17:19:36
Christopher J. Hughes
Of opinions on that one. So I, I first saw Lindsay ever, in the art barn at Keystone College, and, like, looked at her and said that was it. That’s it. And I’ve been fortunate because for the last 17 years, it’s been it’s, But in her second semester, she moved from the dorm where she was.
00:17:19:41 – 00:17:33:37
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, the residence hall. I’m gonna use proper terminology, because the dorm is just where you shouldn’t sleep. According to, like, military terminology, a residence hall is where you live and grow as a person. Sorry, my college PR guys.
00:17:33:37 – 00:17:42:48
Agent Palmer
There were there was there was definitely a lot of living and some growth.
00:17:42:53 – 00:17:51:59
Christopher J. Hughes
So, Lindsay’s second semester, she moved in with, a person who was your significant other at the time?
00:17:51:59 – 00:17:52:29
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:17:52:34 – 00:18:04:06
Christopher J. Hughes
And, but before, before that second semester had started, Lindsay and I had spent what all politely refer to as quality time together.
00:18:04:18 – 00:18:05:35
Agent Palmer
Yep.
00:18:05:39 – 00:18:30:49
Christopher J. Hughes
And, that’s college code, something very different. But, so long story short, halfway. Well, almost to the end of our second semester, we found out that when she was pregnant with our daughter. So that, like, that was, that was a significant turning point. I when Taryn was born, I was 19.
00:18:30:53 – 00:18:33:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So we gotta stop for a second because.
00:18:33:35 – 00:18:34:12
Christopher J. Hughes
Okay.
00:18:34:17 – 00:19:03:50
Agent Palmer
I remember vividly one night, and it would have had to have been the fall semester before, within the last trimester when when when Lindsay was due. And I remember we were back on campus and we were in my room, and it was probably, I don’t know, like, I know it was dark outside and we talked for, like, hours.
00:19:03:50 – 00:19:08:42
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, probably was day, like your apprehensions.
00:19:08:46 – 00:19:16:16
Agent Palmer
And I, I don’t want to say they were concerns because they weren’t, but like fatherhood. Am I ready for this? And, you know, this and that.
00:19:16:23 – 00:19:17:57
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Because I was 19.
00:19:17:58 – 00:19:30:32
Agent Palmer
No, I get that. And I like the fact that I get to sit here and I’ve been able to sit here and go, I was right.
00:19:30:46 – 00:19:35:23
Agent Palmer
You were ready. You were going to be a good like. But but to.
00:19:35:23 – 00:19:38:16
Christopher J. Hughes
Then could possibly think in their own right mind.
00:19:38:16 – 00:19:57:24
Agent Palmer
Well that’s fine. And look, I’m a little older than you. Not by much. But like, I was the one who was like, you’ll be fine. Like, because I, like, I think I think even at that point, I would have been honest with you. Like, it’s going to be Rocky Road, but it wasn’t like it was going to be easy for you.
00:19:57:28 – 00:20:12:17
Christopher J. Hughes
But even, like, even still like it. And you had touched on this like I was. I was failing to be awake for class. Like, I was like, let’s be completely transparent. I almost failed out of being an art student, which.
00:20:12:17 – 00:20:23:40
Agent Palmer
By the way, parallel lines. My freshman year, my first semester, my freshman year, I got put on academic probation for the second semester. Not because of my grades, but because.
00:20:23:40 – 00:20:27:27
Agent Palmer
I failed to go to any morning class.
00:20:27:32 – 00:20:48:56
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, right. And like I, I obviously very obviously in my second and third semester had way more going on than your, your, your run of the mill college student. So like, you know, let’s and I’m not defending my actions but yeah. Was I, was I not completing assignments. Was I missing class. Absolutely.
00:20:49:01 – 00:20:51:40
Agent Palmer
No I’m. No no I’ll, I’ll.
00:20:51:40 – 00:20:52:34
Agent Palmer
I’ll.
00:20:52:39 – 00:21:23:28
Agent Palmer
At least when it came to art because you would bring your stuff over to my room. Because we didn’t live in the same residence hall and, and and and I would, I would write a paper, and then I would start playing video games, and you would be doing art. And I was, at least in one of these scenarios, I had my own room, and, like, you would crash on the couch and I would wake you up and you’d be like, all right, I’m going back to my room, call me for breakfast.
00:21:23:33 – 00:21:24:53
Agent Palmer
And I would wake up.
00:21:24:57 – 00:21:26:28
Agent Palmer
And I would call you at eight.
00:21:26:33 – 00:21:35:34
Agent Palmer
I’ll call you at 830. And then by the time I’d get through, because I had stuff to do, I’d call you again at 11 and you’d be like, hi. And I’d be like, are you coming to lunch like that?
00:21:35:45 – 00:21:39:07
Agent Palmer
And that was a that was a like, friendship.
00:21:39:12 – 00:21:43:00
Agent Palmer
This isn’t me remembering one moment in time.
00:21:43:00 – 00:21:48:04
Agent Palmer
Like that was a regular occurrence. Yeah.
00:21:48:09 – 00:22:10:43
Agent Palmer
Which is how we get to and and look the video games, like. So at the time, we were both playing video games. In fact, I remember a very, very, very, very, very odd, Smash Brothers tournament where, we won because I hid in the hat and on the corner and the side of the screen.
00:22:10:50 – 00:22:14:50
Agent Palmer
Well, you did all the heavy lifting and I was just like, I’m here.
00:22:14:51 – 00:22:19:29
Christopher J. Hughes
Ness for the win ness. Main since early 2000.
00:22:19:34 – 00:22:24:36
Agent Palmer
But like, Animal Crossing hit that campus hard.
00:22:24:41 – 00:22:36:48
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, but you know, it’s all. What also is that gab was hard was Wind Waker when our friend where our friend j not you. Yeah. Modded his Gamecube to play Japanese game.
00:22:36:48 – 00:22:37:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah. We were.
00:22:37:13 – 00:22:41:19
Christopher J. Hughes
All played through the entirety of Wind Waker, not knowing a single word of what we.
00:22:41:28 – 00:22:46:17
Agent Palmer
And we we all shrouded in. Yeah, we just watched, like, before Twitch.
00:22:46:21 – 00:22:51:41
Agent Palmer
Before Twitch. We were like like. And how we were the OG Twitch stream and we.
00:22:51:41 – 00:22:58:40
Agent Palmer
Were our only. We were our own commentary because it was like, I recognize those characters from ten minutes ago.
00:22:58:40 – 00:23:00:11
Agent Palmer
I don’t yeah, yeah.
00:23:00:16 – 00:23:10:01
Christopher J. Hughes
Or why are those characters red? Like. Yeah, because because they didn’t do, you know, they, they made, key points in the text and Wind Waker very obvious, but yeah.
00:23:10:05 – 00:23:27:00
Agent Palmer
So all of this and, you know, we, we, we were basically roommates without actually living together, right? Like, I would go shopping with some friends, to, like, big box stores and be like, hey, Chris, you want me to pick up some more easy Mac?
00:23:27:05 – 00:23:33:29
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, an end to the end. Should we talk about your your car for a moment? Should we get there?
00:23:33:33 – 00:23:47:22
Agent Palmer
All right, so let’s get back to the storyline, guys. You had that conversation about your apprehensions about fatherhood, and I was like, you’ll be fine. And then we get to October around the due date time.
00:23:47:22 – 00:23:51:05
Christopher J. Hughes
And I know exactly the due date. Well, around the.
00:23:51:05 – 00:24:13:40
Agent Palmer
Due date, around the due date time and it’s it’s quite you know, she’s in the hospital, which is now she’s in the hospital two blocks from where I was living at that where my parents were at that time. And you and I stayed up, I want to say almost till like 3 a.m. waiting for quote unquote, the call.
00:24:13:45 – 00:24:15:38
Agent Palmer
And, you know.
00:24:15:38 – 00:24:33:08
Christopher J. Hughes
She it was you. So you’re remembering it a little bit differently. So she, she had not gone to the hospital when she was like, it was the day before, like we’re talking October 5th, 2003. Like she was in a lot of pain. She thought she might have been having contractions, all this kind of stuff. And, like, we stayed up.
00:24:33:08 – 00:24:53:27
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, I, we did stay up waiting. Okay. Because we thought because and like not that anybody ever give any new mom gives birth on their due date. But you know she did it. So it was October, October 6th with the due date. We waited because we’re like, all right, maybe it’s coming. Maybe it’s actually the due date.
00:24:53:27 – 00:25:10:29
Agent Palmer
And at about, because because the, Lindsay and whoever was with her were given two numbers, right? They were given my room, because we were staying up, and they were giving your room as a backup and about three, I don’t know, I want to say about 3 or 2 or 3 or 4 a.m. like, we gave up.
00:25:10:29 – 00:25:18:11
Agent Palmer
Like we we were all right, tab to sleep. And then, the of course, that’s when the call comes. Right.
00:25:18:11 – 00:25:42:19
Christopher J. Hughes
So yeah. So about seven, 730 that morning, I get a call from my now mother in law. Who at the time probably had very little taste for me. But you know, who could blame her? And she I almost remember that conversation verbatim, which is, Lindsay and I are at the hospital. You better get here. Yep.
00:25:42:20 – 00:26:08:43
Christopher J. Hughes
And if that wasn’t exactly the words, it was definitely the tone. And you, you had given me a, key. Not only to your residence hall, but to your room. Yep. And, I, you know, I knocked, I was polite, I didn’t just kick in the door. Although I would, you know, after all this time, I would now, and I said, hey, I see, I got the call, I got, I got to go, and you’re like, the keys are on the dresser.
00:26:08:43 – 00:26:27:37
Christopher J. Hughes
And I was like, okay, like, or the desk or whatever it was. The keys are on the desk next to the laptop, and you let me drive your green Jeep. Yep. Through the back roads. I think it was. I think I went up 247 because we figured out that was the fastest route. And, got to the hospital in time.
00:26:27:37 – 00:26:47:05
Christopher J. Hughes
And, it was good that I left when I did because the the nurses didn’t believe her there. Like, it’s your first pregnancy. You’re you’re not in labor. And, about three hours later, Taryn was born, like, three hours after I had gotten there. Taryn was born. So.
00:26:47:10 – 00:27:08:41
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I remember going the, This is how I know how old your daughter is, because the next day, you you came back, obviously at a certain point, and then we went up. We took you up. Me and my significant other at the time took you up again to. And you know, hey, everybody, you know, let’s let’s see the baby.
00:27:08:41 – 00:27:16:27
Agent Palmer
And, that was the night Bartman happened. Which is how I know Taryn was born in 2003.
00:27:16:32 – 00:27:24:12
Agent Palmer
Because I’m that guy. What? I don’t remember. What are you talking about?
00:27:24:16 – 00:27:44:30
Agent Palmer
You wouldn’t you I mean, I was I mean, look, we did bond over sports and stuff, but, like, I was the one still, I was following it. So that was when the Marlins were playing the Cubs, and. And the fan reached over. That was then what? Either the night before the night of. And the night after we went up to visit Taryn for the first time.
00:27:44:35 – 00:27:45:00
Christopher J. Hughes
Okay.
00:27:45:09 – 00:27:51:13
Agent Palmer
I went up to see for Taryn for the first time. So that’s how I know it was 2003.
00:27:51:18 – 00:27:52:26
Christopher J. Hughes
What is Bartman?
00:27:52:26 – 00:28:15:18
Agent Palmer
Because Bartman is the. That’s the guy who reached out. Oh, that’s the that’s the guy who stole the ball from Moises Alou. These are these are the things I remember. I also remember Taryn falling asleep in my arms during the, one of the World Cups subsequently, in one of the apartments, and the US was winning a game and you’re like, no, I’ll put her to bed.
00:28:15:18 – 00:28:25:08
Agent Palmer
And I’m like, no, she’s fine. We’re winning. And then you put her into her bed and we gave up two goals and lost. And I blamed you for that World Cup loss because Taryn was sleeping.
00:28:25:08 – 00:28:26:08
Agent Palmer
And who knew.
00:28:26:08 – 00:28:27:24
Christopher J. Hughes
I had a rally baby.
00:28:27:28 – 00:28:29:09
Agent Palmer
You know? Hey, you know what I mean.
00:28:29:11 – 00:28:30:07
Agent Palmer
Any you called.
00:28:30:07 – 00:28:32:16
Agent Palmer
It. I’m just, you know, things.
00:28:32:16 – 00:28:34:40
Christopher J. Hughes
You’re the sports guy I am.
00:28:34:40 – 00:28:43:28
Agent Palmer
But you know what? It’s. So there are other things, but I. What, for for college that we’ll get to. But I want to diverge because.
00:28:43:33 – 00:28:44:06
Agent Palmer
We.
00:28:44:06 – 00:28:52:07
Agent Palmer
Became sports people for a bit. Because at the time, it was the Scranton Wilkes-Barre Red Barons.
00:28:52:08 – 00:28:53:35
Christopher J. Hughes
And barons.
00:28:53:40 – 00:29:18:13
Agent Palmer
They were at that time the affiliate of the Philadelphia Phillies. And we went, to a in color. Oh, yeah. Regular enough games that we started to know people on the team, and that was the year that and look for anybody, who wants, like, a little extra detail. Lackawanna County Stadium, which is what it was called at the time, was still modeled after the veterans.
00:29:18:18 – 00:29:33:44
Agent Palmer
So it had I, I don’t want to say astroturf. It had, like, cement painted green. But, whenever a ball was hit for a double, the stadium announcer would play the Venga bus.
00:29:33:59 – 00:29:36:27
Christopher J. Hughes
The Venga bus.
00:29:36:32 – 00:29:41:36
Agent Palmer
And they had an amazing team. Busses come all right.
00:29:41:41 – 00:30:00:58
Agent Palmer
And, one of our favorite players, while we were following them to give some time was Chase Utley. And after one game, and I don’t remember what game, or I don’t even remember why, this was a thing we decided to do, but, we showed up early. We showed up for batting practice.
00:30:01:02 – 00:30:01:40
Christopher J. Hughes
Batting practice.
00:30:01:40 – 00:30:05:07
Agent Palmer
We both got a ball from bat, a loose ball.
00:30:05:07 – 00:30:06:00
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:06:05 – 00:30:14:08
Agent Palmer
And, so we were like, all right, we’re we’re going to get this signed. And after the game, it because it was after the game, it.
00:30:14:08 – 00:30:16:02
Agent Palmer
Wasn’t like I didn’t see I don’t remember I.
00:30:16:02 – 00:30:18:07
Christopher J. Hughes
Thought we got them coming into the dugout.
00:30:18:09 – 00:30:19:54
Agent Palmer
No I think after batting practice.
00:30:19:54 – 00:30:22:22
Agent Palmer
No I’m pretty sure was after the game.
00:30:22:26 – 00:30:23:42
Christopher J. Hughes
Regardless of timing.
00:30:23:44 – 00:30:48:26
Agent Palmer
But we got we got Chase out Lee’s autograph that. Yeah. And I also remember a game where because this is a thing that will date us completely the giveaway and it rained that night, but the giveaway was, umbrella a full sun. Not like, yeah, like a full size umbrella. And we got it. And then we used it, and then the game got called and we went home like it’s.
00:30:48:31 – 00:30:53:14
Christopher J. Hughes
So we we we gamed the works great. Looks very Red Barons that night.
00:30:53:19 – 00:30:59:04
Agent Palmer
But yeah, I mean, so we, we’ve done all these things and you know, it’s.
00:30:59:09 – 00:31:20:53
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Even after the fact, like, so, you know, you know, I’ll fast forward a little bit, but not too far because, you know, basically what had happened was one of my final semesters at Keystone. I had taken a speech class, and much to his chagrin, my advisor had suggested I seek out communications as a profession. Shout out Dave Porter.
00:31:20:55 – 00:31:44:30
Christopher J. Hughes
Thank you. You saved me. But, so I had at some point or another become, reporter I and I worked my way up and I don’t want to skip too far ahead. But there was a time when they were talking about tearing down what was Lackawanna County Stadium and turning it into more of a minor league baseball destination, which was par for the course for the time.
00:31:44:30 – 00:31:58:49
Christopher J. Hughes
And I came down and talked to some of the folks from your local organization, the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs. And like we spent a night at the ballpark again. And it was like old times. We talked to the GM, you know, I was I was wearing multiple hats then. It was a little.
00:31:59:00 – 00:32:02:50
Agent Palmer
But that was a great day because you came down early like we spent.
00:32:02:50 – 00:32:07:03
Agent Palmer
The day together. Man. It was, oh, I’m on assignment in Allentown.
00:32:07:07 – 00:32:18:20
Christopher J. Hughes
You know. Yeah. Well, I was the editor of the paper I was at at the time, and I think I was 25, so, yeah, I was definitely more destined for a career in communications than I was in art.
00:32:18:22 – 00:32:26:24
Agent Palmer
And for at least for at least a good two years. The picture you took of sunset at the ballpark was one of my backgrounds.
00:32:26:29 – 00:32:29:48
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that was good. Know papers? Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:29:52 – 00:32:31:11
Christopher J. Hughes
That was my cover shot that.
00:32:31:11 – 00:32:57:12
Agent Palmer
Week, so he might have eventually moved to communications, but I was already in communications. And my senior year, I harangued you. Because, look, I’ve look, if if there’s anything I’ve been good at over the years, it’s making Chris do things he doesn’t quite want to do, or making him agree to things that he will eventually regret.
00:32:57:12 – 00:32:57:55
Agent Palmer
Saying yes, to.
00:32:58:08 – 00:32:59:27
Christopher J. Hughes
Live, to regret. Yeah.
00:32:59:38 – 00:33:04:11
Agent Palmer
So the first one I will talk about is he not even the senior project?
00:33:04:11 – 00:33:06:57
Agent Palmer
We will get there. There is a.
00:33:07:02 – 00:33:12:02
Agent Palmer
Worse scenario than that, which is I was playing a video.
00:33:12:02 – 00:33:19:58
Agent Palmer
Game. I was in I was playing a video game thing and.
00:33:20:02 – 00:33:36:15
Agent Palmer
And in said video game, which is Skies of Arcadia, one of my favorite. You’re there it comes to a point where, and I didn’t I didn’t know this at the time. You’re supposed to lose. Like that’s a thing that happens. There’s a boss you’re supposed to lose.
00:33:36:24 – 00:33:37:58
Agent Palmer
At Giga.
00:33:38:03 – 00:33:44:14
Agent Palmer
In the desert. And what happens is, I. I, like you, were doing homework in my room.
00:33:44:14 – 00:33:46:50
Agent Palmer
My blood pressure rising. You were doing.
00:33:46:50 – 00:33:51:52
Agent Palmer
Homework in my room. As I’m playing this, and I, I, I lose the first try.
00:33:51:52 – 00:33:52:44
Christopher J. Hughes
And every time I.
00:33:52:44 – 00:33:55:38
Agent Palmer
Lose the second time I lose the third. I’m just like,
00:33:55:42 – 00:33:59:15
Agent Palmer
And I’m not like, we didn’t just lose. We’re like, this fucking boss.
00:33:59:15 – 00:34:01:19
Christopher J. Hughes
We’re going to. We’re going to reset. We’re going to beat him.
00:34:01:19 – 00:34:18:51
Agent Palmer
Well, because at after like the fourth or fifth time, you started to become invested. And it’s one of those things where because of the way the Gamecube set up, when we lose, we immediately hit the reset button and start over. Because that we were we were at a point where that was the save point was right there.
00:34:18:51 – 00:34:19:00
Agent Palmer
I know.
00:34:19:03 – 00:34:21:06
Agent Palmer
When.
00:34:21:11 – 00:34:37:51
Agent Palmer
And at a certain point, like you started playing, and we couldn’t get it. And then like, this is before we thought to check like at that point, game Facts is a thing, but it’s not a thing we’re using all the time. And I think at one point, like we lost, there.
00:34:37:51 – 00:34:39:37
Christopher J. Hughes
Were no YouTube tutorials.
00:34:39:37 – 00:34:47:46
Agent Palmer
No. So at a certain point we lost and we just kind of let it run and the like it wasn’t it wasn’t a game over screen.
00:34:47:46 – 00:34:49:31
Agent Palmer
There was no game over avoiding.
00:34:49:36 – 00:34:57:36
Agent Palmer
And at that point you were like, I hate this game. I hate this game. I hate this game.
00:34:57:41 – 00:35:03:29
Christopher J. Hughes
Because you were supposed to lose. When are you ever supposed to lose to a boss?
00:35:03:33 – 00:35:11:02
Agent Palmer
When you’re supposed to? Look, you know what? In hindsight, I’ve had years to think about this because we don’t.
00:35:11:03 – 00:35:11:46
Agent Palmer
We don’t talk.
00:35:11:46 – 00:35:13:04
Agent Palmer
About this all that often.
00:35:13:16 – 00:35:16:17
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh, because of how it makes me feel emotionally.
00:35:16:18 – 00:35:17:51
Agent Palmer
But it’s it’s.
00:35:17:51 – 00:35:35:49
Agent Palmer
Ingenious when it comes to video games, because a lot of the times, like, think about Legend of Zelda, you’ll fight Ganon. And before you finish him off, he flees. At least in this scenario, the boss isn’t running away. The boss is just better than you.
00:35:35:54 – 00:35:45:21
Christopher J. Hughes
But it it goes against. And this is why I love video games, right? If in a traditional sense. And this is why I don’t like this game. All right. And so let’s.
00:35:45:26 – 00:35:49:10
Agent Palmer
We’re only part you. You didn’t I enjoyed the rest of it.
00:35:49:10 – 00:36:14:08
Christopher J. Hughes
But I’m going to tell you why okay. Because and this is going to sound cheesy and corny and stupid right. But like I’ve, I’ve definitely been in spots either that I’ve caused myself or that have been caused by the elements around me where I have had to pick myself up, learn a new skill, convince myself I was stronger, whatever the case might be.
00:36:14:08 – 00:36:39:46
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. And and slay the beast, right? Yep. Playing video games for so long has not only giving me given me the sense of gratification when I. When I couldn’t do it in my own life of of being the hero and solving the problem. It has embedded in me this mentality that was like, okay, you’re not ready for this yet.
00:36:39:51 – 00:37:09:34
Christopher J. Hughes
You can beat this boss, you can pass this sequence, but you don’t have the equipment and the skills for it yet. And the reason I think I hate the red gig is so much is it was it was an impenetrable, but it was a boss that you couldn’t beat. And I love video games because I’ve not yet encountered a boss that I could not or should not beat.
00:37:09:39 – 00:37:34:10
Agent Palmer
For anybody who’s confused like you do eventually beat him. But one of the. So. So that was one where he was, kind of sucked in on his own. He just happened to be there and see me struggling and jump in like a good friend, but like, different kind of person. No. But, like a good friend who helps.
00:37:34:15 – 00:37:47:43
Agent Palmer
My senior project was a radio program that if everything goes well, this will be common knowledge to everyone. Because I will have already released a solo episode of me remastering, sad thing.
00:37:47:48 – 00:37:50:10
Christopher J. Hughes
This time, at the time of recording, we’re close.
00:37:50:10 – 00:38:03:42
Agent Palmer
At the time of recording. I’m still working on it. But, one of the things was that, once this script was approved, I had to record it. And.
00:38:03:44 – 00:38:07:26
Agent Palmer
I.
00:38:07:31 – 00:38:20:14
Agent Palmer
You know, I’m a podcaster now, right? So, like, I know how to tell a story, and I know how to talk to no one if I need to. But at that time, I wasn’t good at it, so I enlisted.
00:38:20:15 – 00:38:22:41
Christopher J. Hughes
Isn’t that what podcasting is, isn’t it? Talking to.
00:38:22:41 – 00:38:25:07
Agent Palmer
No one? Yes, I mean, no.
00:38:25:12 – 00:38:51:56
Agent Palmer
I’ve had a lot of experience. I’ve had a lot of experience with blogging and writing to no one. So, now podcasting, but then didn’t know anything about it, right. So, and and you know what? To a larger extent, I really didn’t know anything about it because I was writing for the paper in a big fish small pond scenario where everything I wrote in the paper, somebody said something about something, right?
00:38:51:56 – 00:38:55:28
Agent Palmer
I write the headline, I write below the fold, I write. You’re talking about.
00:38:55:28 – 00:38:55:57
Christopher J. Hughes
The keystone.
00:38:55:57 – 00:39:30:49
Agent Palmer
Thing. Yeah, right. I write, and so I’m not I’m not used to not having any kind of feedback. Right. So, I enlisted the help of you to be my director. Producer, all in one, because it’s like, all right, here’s my script. And it after the first page. So, I mean, because I’m in it, right? It’s 72 paragraphs that we have to record, and we numbered them because we recorded it by paragraph using the same program we’re using right, right now.
00:39:30:53 – 00:39:31:11
Agent Palmer
But.
00:39:31:11 – 00:39:33:04
Christopher J. Hughes
A lesser version.
00:39:33:08 – 00:39:39:27
Agent Palmer
No. Same for I mean, not version, but you know, 17 years audacity hasn’t changed.
00:39:39:31 – 00:39:40:38
Agent Palmer
No formatter.
00:39:40:38 – 00:40:01:37
Christopher J. Hughes
But but at the time we were using a free because it was it was like a free. And then there was a paid audacity. Audacity is has since gone. Like, I don’t know if it’s considered open where whatever it is, but it’s it’s free. You can download audacity for free. But when we were using it, you could only log in and use two functions of the program at the same time.
00:40:01:37 – 00:40:20:17
Christopher J. Hughes
So like let’s say for example, you wanted to like layer tracks. You could do that and something else. So we, we did your senior project in like not only paragraph by paragraph, but like by function of the program that we needed to use to by function of the program.
00:40:20:17 – 00:40:32:19
Agent Palmer
But it’s not even that like to put that aside. You, after the first four paragraphs, were like, I’m going to read this to you the way you’re supposed to read it.
00:40:32:23 – 00:40:35:00
Agent Palmer
And then you’re going to read it.
00:40:35:05 – 00:41:03:30
Agent Palmer
And I look, I have because obviously when I was I have 25 CDs of backup drafts that we recorded, I don’t know how many days. And it was like at night, like, because we needed it to be quiet. My residence hall was, was an animal house, so, like, we couldn’t even start until, like, 1130, 12 animal House.
00:41:03:33 – 00:41:05:54
Agent Palmer
So, you know.
00:41:05:54 – 00:41:08:03
Agent Palmer
That’s what you got dragged into.
00:41:08:07 – 00:41:15:09
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. So I have the pleasure of saying I got to produce Palmer before anybody else did.
00:41:15:09 – 00:41:17:25
Agent Palmer
Before I was even up. Palmer?
00:41:17:30 – 00:41:20:00
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. We’re still starch.
00:41:20:04 – 00:41:20:33
Agent Palmer
Yep.
00:41:20:33 – 00:41:22:01
Christopher J. Hughes
So I was your first producer?
00:41:22:01 – 00:41:25:07
Agent Palmer
Yes. And and.
00:41:25:12 – 00:41:27:52
Christopher J. Hughes
And if sticking around is in friendship, I don’t know what is.
00:41:27:52 – 00:41:37:55
Agent Palmer
I guess as a, as a as an aside, you were also my first editor when I started the blog. You were the first person I bounced posts off of for feedback.
00:41:38:00 – 00:41:39:59
Christopher J. Hughes
Because how long is Palmer been on the blog?
00:41:40:04 – 00:41:52:51
Agent Palmer
I, I should know, I think it’s I know I’m over six years. I don’t know, probably. Okay, I’m probably approaching a milestone and I should probably I it’s eight. I’m going to guess I don’t know that’s fine.
00:41:52:52 – 00:42:12:06
Christopher J. Hughes
But so so but you had benefited from me having worked on multiple copy desks in multiple newspaper roles. I ran a weekly paper for a little while, like, so you you had the benefit of me going, okay, this is great, but your reader doesn’t need it. It’s so even for a blog, like I was stingy with you.
00:42:12:06 – 00:42:25:48
Agent Palmer
And what’s great is now, because you’ve read so much of my stuff and we’ve talked so much, you can now edit things not as a proper editor, but to make me sound like me.
00:42:25:53 – 00:42:31:12
Agent Palmer
Which is like the most invaluable thing I will ever have.
00:42:31:17 – 00:42:40:27
Christopher J. Hughes
Is like, if anything ever happened to you, I could probably keep Palmer running and nobody would know except I don’t read nearly as many books as you, and they would go, where the hell are all the book reviews?
00:42:40:27 – 00:42:44:44
Agent Palmer
That’s. Yeah. That’s fine. So you helped me graduate?
00:42:44:53 – 00:42:49:28
Christopher J. Hughes
I would say that’s fair. And you tried like hell to help me graduate.
00:42:49:34 – 00:42:55:16
Agent Palmer
I did, in fact, I still remember the you can’t leave.
00:42:55:21 – 00:42:56:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but I’m going.
00:42:56:13 – 00:43:27:43
Christopher J. Hughes
To I’m going to say this, okay? I’m going to say this art school is bullshit because art is subjective, not objective. It does not deserve a letter grade or number grade. And part of my conflict with being an art student wasn’t just everything else that was happening in my life. At the time. It was. It was the idea that somebody could tell me my my interpretation of the world around me or my approach to, a self-portrait wasn’t worthy enough.
00:43:27:48 – 00:43:53:19
Christopher J. Hughes
Yes, of getting where I needed to be. Yeah. Where were my lines? Not always super clean like they are now, thanks to to digital processes and stuff like that. Yeah, absolutely. I know there’s probably a couple folks, if they’re still fortunate enough to be up on that campus that would eat their hat if they knew I was a graphic designer and I was making artwork live on the internet and for paying clients on a semi-regular basis.
00:43:53:19 – 00:44:03:41
Christopher J. Hughes
I mean, I’m a graphic designer full time, but we also have a lot of fun with the new thing that we’ve gotten involved in. And I don’t want to I don’t want to skip. I don’t want to skip to the end track.
00:44:03:46 – 00:44:20:50
Agent Palmer
Well, so I and I don’t know how this comes about. I this is the best of my recollection, right? Because of the experience we had, not just as friends but working together on that senior project. You started a business.
00:44:20:55 – 00:44:21:37
Christopher J. Hughes
I did.
00:44:21:41 – 00:44:29:13
Agent Palmer
And look, I don’t remember you saying, join me and I don’t remember me being like, I’m in. It just kind of happened.
00:44:29:18 – 00:44:30:02
Agent Palmer
Right?
00:44:30:07 – 00:44:33:42
Christopher J. Hughes
So, yeah. So because friendship.
00:44:33:44 – 00:44:35:56
Agent Palmer
You start lucky John.
00:44:36:03 – 00:44:36:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Media.
00:44:36:48 – 00:44:46:59
Agent Palmer
And we, we did seeds together and I remember being at your house, while you were at your day job, printing and, things.
00:44:46:59 – 00:45:05:09
Christopher J. Hughes
We had an Epson printer that would that would we? We bought printable CDs for clients. We had a couple, like, local musicians that wanted to do stuff, and so they would get the CDs burned and we would run them through, and it was like it was an Epson printer that had this thing, and it ran one CD at a time.
00:45:05:09 – 00:45:09:37
Christopher J. Hughes
And if I’m not mistaken, it took a good five minutes per it.
00:45:09:42 – 00:45:24:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I, I, you called me up, I came up, I, I was, I was in your mom’s basement and it was just kind of like, all right, well, I have a couple days off because I was working retail at the time. And you were just like, all right, I’m going to my job now.
00:45:24:21 – 00:45:28:25
Agent Palmer
No. All right, I’ll be printing CD’s.
00:45:28:30 – 00:45:29:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And we did.
00:45:30:01 – 00:45:30:26
Christopher J. Hughes
It in the.
00:45:30:26 – 00:45:31:40
Agent Palmer
Mailbox like.
00:45:31:40 – 00:45:35:05
Agent Palmer
We did a bunch of those. We did a couple menus. I.
00:45:35:12 – 00:45:39:10
Agent Palmer
Look at the disco menus, the stuff we had, we had a connection.
00:45:39:10 – 00:46:06:18
Christopher J. Hughes
Who? I’m still. He’s he’s another. He’s one of my second college oldest friends. And he now runs a successful local print shop, funny enough, but, yeah, he was originally from the Brooklyn area, and we had so many goddamn menus for unappreciative restaurateurs, I don’t know if any of them are still open, and I don’t want to talk shit on them, but, there’s one that’s named after, a famous swatch of land in the American West.
00:46:06:23 – 00:46:09:37
Agent Palmer
I still remember the font. I still remember the font.
00:46:09:42 – 00:46:12:37
Christopher J. Hughes
Kids. Cowboy. Something in it? Yeah, or just how it looks.
00:46:12:47 – 00:46:14:51
Agent Palmer
I both I don’t want I.
00:46:14:51 – 00:46:26:20
Christopher J. Hughes
Can I can pick it out and go. That’s the name of a restaurant I don’t want to back off. And, yeah, they were. We? Yeah, we definitely dealt with our share of obnoxious clients, which inevitably just prepared us for being in the real world. Yes.
00:46:26:20 – 00:46:30:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Because then you you had to fold that up.
00:46:30:48 – 00:46:31:04
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:46:31:04 – 00:46:39:03
Agent Palmer
Wasn’t working, and you fold it up. And about a month later, I started my own business because I was like, well, I.
00:46:39:08 – 00:46:40:34
Agent Palmer
And and what ended up.
00:46:40:34 – 00:46:49:20
Agent Palmer
Happening was nothing changed, right? Like we went really just working together under one name to working together under another.
00:46:49:27 – 00:46:50:20
Agent Palmer
You should have just kept.
00:46:50:20 – 00:46:55:38
Agent Palmer
It and just been like, all right, well, you do your thing a bit like we could have just been under one.
00:46:55:42 – 00:46:56:26
Agent Palmer
And it’s just.
00:46:56:26 – 00:46:58:04
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, we already had the like.
00:46:58:09 – 00:47:04:53
Agent Palmer
And then I got one too, so we we’re we’re both in cooperated separately now because I was like, I, you.
00:47:04:53 – 00:47:07:58
Christopher J. Hughes
Know, for no reason now.
00:47:08:03 – 00:47:12:26
Agent Palmer
But at a certain point I came up, I helped you move twice.
00:47:12:31 – 00:47:18:46
Christopher J. Hughes
Yep. I that’s friendship. The people you call when you got to move that show up, that’s friendship.
00:47:18:51 – 00:47:31:17
Agent Palmer
And, I mean, I, I had a vested interest in it because at the time I was coming up all the time. So, like, when you moved to a bigger place, like, I got, you know, I could sleep on a bed again and not a couch.
00:47:31:22 – 00:47:33:44
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. There were definitely secondary benefits for you.
00:47:33:46 – 00:47:34:40
Agent Palmer
Yes, yes.
00:47:34:40 – 00:47:38:00
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And.
00:47:38:05 – 00:47:41:45
Agent Palmer
You know, it’s look, we’ve, we’ve.
00:47:41:50 – 00:47:50:00
Christopher J. Hughes
We’ve run a couple of gantlet. We haven’t run a gantlet like, well, we’ll run one gantlet and then go. You want to do it again?
00:47:50:04 – 00:47:50:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:47:50:20 – 00:47:53:56
Agent Palmer
We don’t learn a lot. Right. And and and what’s.
00:47:53:56 – 00:47:54:32
Agent Palmer
Funny I don’t know.
00:47:54:32 – 00:48:10:09
Christopher J. Hughes
Is that’s it. I think because of who we are and how we have grown as adults together, which is scary to say, but it’s true. We don’t make the process of running a gantlet painful.
00:48:10:18 – 00:48:31:06
Agent Palmer
For each other. Well, it’s. What’s funny is, I said this in the first episode was a part of. Right? Like, when I’m with Zapata, it’s just like I’m still in high school. Like I don’t have all this adult shit. And when I’m with you, right? It’s just like we’re back in the dorm room. Like it? It’s. It doesn’t feel like we should have a job and like a professional job.
00:48:31:06 – 00:48:41:34
Agent Palmer
And what’s worse is you and I have worked around our professional jobs. You had a 37 minute commute.
00:48:41:39 – 00:48:45:18
Christopher J. Hughes
Roughly at 1.8 81. Yeah. Well, no, I was, I was.
00:48:45:18 – 00:48:51:35
Agent Palmer
I was tired of Wilkes-Barre. No, no, I was thinking about the, up the notch when you were going that,
00:48:51:40 – 00:48:57:18
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh, yeah. I don’t know if it was that long, but. Okay, maybe with cork, some traffic being bad, but. Yeah. So yeah, I.
00:48:57:18 – 00:48:58:12
Agent Palmer
Mean, like.
00:48:58:17 – 00:49:09:40
Agent Palmer
Over the course of, of, of your professional career when you weren’t living in the same city that you were working in as you are now, you had commutes and we would talk.
00:49:09:53 – 00:49:10:45
Christopher J. Hughes
We telecommuting.
00:49:10:54 – 00:49:15:12
Agent Palmer
Every, every morning and almost, almost, if not.
00:49:15:17 – 00:49:20:41
Christopher J. Hughes
More on the phone than I probably did in the professional work day and days.
00:49:20:42 – 00:49:26:13
Agent Palmer
And, through when you were going up to Clerk Summit, we had to deal with the notch.
00:49:26:13 – 00:49:29:58
Agent Palmer
A notch was just a dead zone.
00:49:29:58 – 00:49:46:25
Agent Palmer
And and it’s funny because it’s it’s it’s this is this is it. Hey, bud. Working on this design, I’m not sure it’s working out well, and, and you’re like, oh, well, check the kerning. Do this, do that. Hold on. Notch coming up. And then just.
00:49:46:32 – 00:49:47:24
Agent Palmer
The call would drop.
00:49:47:26 – 00:49:48:06
Agent Palmer
Call to drop.
00:49:48:18 – 00:49:48:51
Agent Palmer
Pick up.
00:49:48:51 – 00:49:52:20
Christopher J. Hughes
And then we would get back on it or not.
00:49:52:25 – 00:49:54:29
Agent Palmer
And then we keep going. But we did.
00:49:54:29 – 00:49:58:13
Agent Palmer
So much I remember running Corey by you.
00:49:58:19 – 00:50:08:50
Christopher J. Hughes
There were two dead spots, by the way, because we tried to find another one. And then we discovered we I went up a different way, that office, and then I discovered a second dead spot on Grove Street. And I was like.
00:50:08:50 – 00:50:11:05
Agent Palmer
God damn it.
00:50:11:10 – 00:50:30:04
Agent Palmer
But we like I used to run copy by like before, Palmer. Like when we had to, when we would build sites for people and we would write, copy and even for ourselves. It was just like, all right, you’re in the car, but you’re the best copy editor, so I’m going to read this to you.
00:50:30:08 – 00:50:31:22
Agent Palmer
And you would.
00:50:31:22 – 00:50:35:57
Agent Palmer
Like just me. All right. Is there a comma there? Change that wording that.
00:50:36:03 – 00:50:36:15
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:50:36:17 – 00:50:59:42
Christopher J. Hughes
Like we got. I can almost tell how you were writing it based on how you were reading it. And it’s funny, my, my current boss, you know, was, I, I deal with a lot of advertising and marketing stuff on my current job. I don’t give too much away yet. But my current boss has coined the term for, like, when I just like, when the gears turn on and I just start going, like, she calls it my beautiful bullshit.
00:50:59:47 – 00:51:06:19
Christopher J. Hughes
Which, if that isn’t like the next marketing firm, you and I start together. I don’t know what the hell it is.
00:51:06:20 – 00:51:25:00
Agent Palmer
Well that’s fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I it’s so what? My. One of my last jobs, you wrote a guest post for us, and it was the only time my boss at that job had looked at something and not had a single edit.
00:51:25:05 – 00:51:27:14
Agent Palmer
And now, is that the Weezer post? No.
00:51:27:14 – 00:51:28:32
Agent Palmer
This was.
00:51:28:37 – 00:51:31:26
Christopher J. Hughes
The the the the zoo.
00:51:31:31 – 00:51:33:00
Agent Palmer
Could have been easy. Ola. Yeah.
00:51:33:05 – 00:51:40:45
Agent Palmer
One of one of them. Yeah, you did a couple. And I was just like, see, I told you, he’s a good writer because I was like, you’re not going.
00:51:40:45 – 00:51:43:24
Agent Palmer
To have any any.
00:51:43:29 – 00:51:51:29
Agent Palmer
Changes. And she’s and I don’t I don’t believe you. And I was like, no, no, look, it’s not just cuz he’s my friend. He’s a better writer than me. Like, you’ll be fine. You won’t as.
00:51:51:34 – 00:52:07:33
Christopher J. Hughes
Well. And it’s funny because, like, you know, I was I was still a young parent, you know, we were admittedly. Yeah, trying everything we could to make fun, affordable vacations. And you’re like, if you write this blog post, I might be able to hook you up with at least some discount tickets. And I was like, that sounds like a great idea.
00:52:07:42 – 00:52:09:40
Christopher J. Hughes
Let’s try that. And we did.
00:52:09:55 – 00:52:10:59
Agent Palmer
Well. But like you.
00:52:10:59 – 00:52:31:06
Christopher J. Hughes
Even even before that, like we were supporting each other professionally because there was a time when President Obama was coming to Lehigh Carbon Community College, and I needed a place to crash so that I could make the 5:00 in the morning Secret Service security sweep of my equipment, because I was working as, an online producer at the time.
00:52:31:06 – 00:52:45:06
Christopher J. Hughes
And we were we were going to carry it was the first time he’d even come remotely close to our coverage area, and we were going to carry it live. And I crashed at your house. I woke up at like 4:00 in the morning. I made sure not to wake anybody off at your house. And I made it in time for the security sweep.
00:52:45:06 – 00:52:54:12
Christopher J. Hughes
And, So, yeah, like even those things where we’re like, I’m in closer physical proximity to you. Let me help. Like, we’ve always been there.
00:52:54:12 – 00:53:18:33
Agent Palmer
Well, and even when we haven’t been like, I look at, you you used to draw napkins for your kids. I sure did. And, at the time, we were kind of, playing around with some graphic design stuff. And, I think you had opened a shop, but I, I was like, well, we should just, let’s put it we should do deviance.
00:53:18:34 – 00:53:29:38
Agent Palmer
So we got a deviant art, and I would, I fell behind because, you know, life. But for a while I was up and and because you were doing two a day. One for each.
00:53:29:39 – 00:53:34:11
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. When when both kids started school was it was a death knell for both of us.
00:53:34:11 – 00:53:36:21
Agent Palmer
But like, I was like.
00:53:36:21 – 00:53:38:07
Agent Palmer
You would you did the heavy.
00:53:38:07 – 00:53:59:18
Agent Palmer
Lifting of, like, actually drawing on the napkin. I went and downloaded the photos and then re-uploaded them. And it was just like, I think, I think I did it at least a couple hundred. And I was just like and I tried and I tried like, I tried to separate them, like you did the My Little Pony. So these are all my Little Ponies and and I’m like, texting if.
00:53:59:18 – 00:54:00:23
Christopher J. Hughes
You like collections.
00:54:00:23 – 00:54:01:56
Agent Palmer
And shit. I’m like, I don’t know what you’re doing.
00:54:01:56 – 00:54:04:59
Agent Palmer
I’m like, texting you. I’m like, who is this?
00:54:05:03 – 00:54:07:57
Agent Palmer
I don’t, I don’t like I, I don’t, I don’t like it.
00:54:08:01 – 00:54:17:51
Agent Palmer
But we’ve done this kind of stuff like passion projects for us. Like you being my first editor on Palmer’s Not Out of the realm. I feel like with everything.
00:54:17:51 – 00:54:18:58
Christopher J. Hughes
Not out of character at all.
00:54:18:58 – 00:54:32:31
Agent Palmer
No. And it’s weird to have you on the show because, like, that was a thing that I talked to you about, like, hey, I’m going on this podcast or this. And. Yeah, but it wasn’t something I brought.
00:54:32:31 – 00:54:42:15
Christopher J. Hughes
You more often. It was producing like you were. You were keeping yourself behind the scenes to help other people realize their their passion projects, which is one of the things that I admire about you most.
00:54:42:15 – 00:55:08:18
Agent Palmer
Or when I would guess, like, I didn’t bring you into this like it was the first time. I mean, look, we talked about it like I’d bounce ideas off of you like you were, actually, everybody in this series was told about this series at the very beginning, before I even launched the show. It’s one of the endearing things about me that you absolutely love and hate.
00:55:08:18 – 00:55:09:00
Agent Palmer
Is.
00:55:09:04 – 00:55:11:16
Agent Palmer
Hey, okay. All right, so I had this.
00:55:11:16 – 00:55:13:20
Christopher J. Hughes
Idea before you recorded episode one.
00:55:13:30 – 00:55:14:28
Agent Palmer
I haven’t even.
00:55:14:28 – 00:55:19:40
Agent Palmer
Recorded episode one. But what if I take all four of my closest friends and record, like, why would?
00:55:19:52 – 00:55:24:11
Agent Palmer
And you’re like, yeah, like you’re fucking insane. And what’s funny is.
00:55:24:11 – 00:55:30:45
Agent Palmer
In that scenario, you can’t I can’t give you a dollar for being a head because you were just like.
00:55:30:50 – 00:55:34:10
Agent Palmer
Okay, well, now he’s ahead of himself. Yeah.
00:55:34:15 – 00:55:39:23
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Like you, you even you surprised even me at that point. But yeah.
00:55:39:28 – 00:56:10:41
Agent Palmer
And it’s, again, our relationship was living together and then it was the phone and we’ve adjusted and, you know, the phone has been my lifeline, especially after the anxiety when the travel kind of slipped up and. Yeah, wasn’t so much. But even without the anxiety, like when I got the professional full time job, I wouldn’t have been able to come up as often as I was anyway.
00:56:10:41 – 00:56:31:11
Agent Palmer
And it was still like, you know, we talk all the time and it’s, you know, what do you need? And, you know, you know, not to put a like and I’m going to keep this as broad as possible to protect us. But like, I’ve called you for work issues and you’ve called me like, it’s just like, hey, I got this thing, what would you do?
00:56:31:11 – 00:57:01:25
Agent Palmer
Or whatever. And it’s just like, problem solving that. It’s like, you’re one of my go tos, and, like, I go to all of my friends, but everybody’s got their own different skill set, right? And like, I know that you are more technically, and classically aligned for the skill set of what I do. So if I run into an issue with writing or coding or design like you’re the guy because we overlap, there.
00:57:01:29 – 00:57:07:39
Christopher J. Hughes
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.
00:57:07:43 – 00:57:11:32
Agent Palmer
We didn’t even get into the pop culture stuff like, oh, I mean.
00:57:11:37 – 00:57:21:39
Agent Palmer
That’s a separate thing. But like, we watch the same stuff, we like the same stuff. We listen to a lot of the same stuff. It has been.
00:57:21:40 – 00:57:26:57
Christopher J. Hughes
Like, you and I are the last two people who know who messed is as a band, you know what I mean? Like.
00:57:27:01 – 00:57:29:01
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:29:06 – 00:57:33:27
Agent Palmer
I mean, I called you up and I went, you know, they got a new album that I didn’t even know dropped.
00:57:33:32 – 00:57:35:41
Agent Palmer
Oh yeah. Right. It’s like, yeah.
00:57:35:43 – 00:57:41:09
Agent Palmer
Nobody, nobody else noticed either. I guess.
00:57:41:14 – 00:57:43:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Well,
00:57:43:27 – 00:57:44:38
Christopher J. Hughes
Sorry. Messed.
00:57:44:42 – 00:58:06:14
Agent Palmer
So we’ve done all this, and it continues to this day. It’s not just my stuff. I mean, this is we’ve talked a lot of it, but it’s not one sided. I help you a little bit more now. I help you a little bit more professionally. So we don’t, you know, we’re not going to get into that necessarily.
00:58:06:14 – 00:58:16:52
Agent Palmer
But now you and and look, I’ve been a big, proponent of you doing more design work. I’m.
00:58:16:57 – 00:58:17:33
Christopher J. Hughes
Always.
00:58:17:33 – 00:58:20:21
Agent Palmer
I’m drinking coffee out of a mug. You designed.
00:58:20:26 – 00:58:21:49
Agent Palmer
Rice?
00:58:21:54 – 00:58:36:38
Agent Palmer
And, you know, it’s I’ve always been like, you’ve got to do more and you’ve got to do your own thing. And when you were like, I’m thinking about starting a twitch. And I was like, let’s do it. I’m your mod. Let’s go.
00:58:36:42 – 00:58:56:33
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. I mean, without hesitation you jumped in. And so Twitch has been Twitch is interesting for a couple of reasons, right? Because I hadn’t considered Twitch as a thing until the pandemic hit. And I know you don’t want these to be dated, but they’re not. They’re going to be out there. You know, we’re we’re in this for almost five months now.
00:58:56:33 – 00:59:23:38
Christopher J. Hughes
So, you know, the pandemic is definitely it’s not a footnote. It’s a piece of our history. Yeah. And so I started working from home in March and was probably doing more content creation. So full disclosure I’m a graphic designer, video producer from the college that I went to after Keystone, which is Lackawanna College. And so that’s really rewarding in its own sense, because my dad worked there before he passed away, and my sister worked there, my degrees from there.
00:59:23:38 – 00:59:46:45
Christopher J. Hughes
I’m pursuing my bachelor’s degree from there because I’ve been, I, I don’t know how, but I’ve been able to ride that associate’s degree wave for the last 14 years of my life. So hurrah! Buckle up. But I was doing more content creation and stuff like that from home and struggling, admittedly struggling with trying to find and maintain an audience for our esports team.
00:59:46:50 – 01:00:07:33
Christopher J. Hughes
And for months we had struggled on YouTube and stuff like that. And, you know, I’d be I’d be an hour 12 of a 16 hour day and I’d be like, hey, I’ll call you on the way home. And, and so and we never really found the audience for it. And so I, part of me started experimenting with Twitch because I was home.
01:00:07:38 – 01:00:33:05
Christopher J. Hughes
Right. I was looking for I’m very much a social person. It’s weird. I’m like an introvert, an extrovert. I can be comfortable in a crowd, but I love being home with my family. So like being home through the pandemic has not been a hardship for me, the way that I may have been for other people. You know, I, I joked, you know, one of the we were maybe about three weeks into the pandemic and one of our media buyers for the college is like, boy, there’s gonna be a lot of babies born after this thing.
01:00:33:05 – 01:00:55:33
Christopher J. Hughes
I said, yeah, and probably a lot of divorces, too, you know? Thankfully I don’t have to worry about, either. So we’re we’re good on that front. So I was looking for some social connection and then part of me was looking to prove that Twitch could work as a primary platform for our esports team. And in order to prove that to myself, we started.
01:00:55:44 – 01:00:58:43
Christopher J. Hughes
What I’ll now refer to is the grand Experiment.
01:00:58:48 – 01:01:05:05
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s so it it’s the Grand experiment part two for us because my charges.
01:01:05:05 – 01:01:08:29
Agent Palmer
Increase very well because my.
01:01:08:39 – 01:01:12:11
Christopher J. Hughes
Like, grand experiment 45 like we’re back here is at this point.
01:01:12:15 – 01:01:25:30
Agent Palmer
Somewhere in there is grand experiment, Agent Palmer, because that was started so I could get my writing chops back up for my professional job, where I was going to have to start blogging. And I hadn’t written.
01:01:25:30 – 01:01:26:24
Christopher J. Hughes
A lot.
01:01:26:33 – 01:01:38:06
Agent Palmer
Since college. Right. And now that’s a thing like so you. Yeah, start the twitch as an experiment. And recently, we made affiliate.
01:01:38:10 – 01:01:44:56
Agent Palmer
We made affiliate. How start? I have 50 people following me. And that’s it’s not.
01:01:44:59 – 01:01:50:26
Agent Palmer
It’s not. Why are 50 people following me? It’s why is an average of three people tuning in every time?
01:01:50:26 – 01:01:51:24
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, yeah, I guess that was.
01:01:51:25 – 01:01:51:59
Agent Palmer
That’s niche.
01:01:52:08 – 01:02:07:40
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, yeah. Because two of them are you and and and stuff because you’re, you’re excellent mods and you’re there and I don’t think we artificially boosted the view count. But having you guys have me hovered around two towards the beginning definitely helped.
01:02:07:45 – 01:02:08:30
Agent Palmer
Oh, it definitely.
01:02:08:30 – 01:02:15:46
Agent Palmer
Helped because then you only need the one to push it up and not push it to. Yeah, no, but it’s been.
01:02:15:51 – 01:02:16:35
Christopher J. Hughes
Awesome.
01:02:16:39 – 01:02:27:30
Agent Palmer
It’s been what we’ve we’ve always been good at. Right. It’s it’s promotion. It’s some of the behind the scenes stuff which we do a lot of it on stream. Yeah. It’s also.
01:02:27:45 – 01:02:44:32
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, we, we go back to the thing that I’m really enjoying about what we do on Twitch. And so Twitch is fun for multiple reasons. But months before I had thought about it, my best friend of 25 years that you’re my best friend of of what are we, an.
01:02:44:37 – 01:02:49:18
Agent Palmer
18 to 18? Yeah, yeah, let’s just,
01:02:49:23 – 01:03:05:45
Christopher J. Hughes
Longer than probably most of the people around us would have expected. Right. But my my best friend of 25 years, we were out drinking one night, before all of this nonsense hit with the pandemic. And he said, you know, he’s like, you should get a twitch. He’s like, my, you were like the original Twitch streamer from my little brother.
01:03:05:45 – 01:03:23:10
Christopher J. Hughes
And I was like, whenever we couldn’t beat a video game, we would call you all over the house and just sit there with our jaws on the floor as we watched you wipe the floor with these bosses. And I was like, oh, you know, that’s funny. And so like, that kind of was, was a, a part of it aside from the, the real work motivation.
01:03:23:15 – 01:03:40:46
Christopher J. Hughes
And then, you know, what I really like about especially the art streams is we pull back the veil, right? With the like, there’s there’s nothing that happens during an art stream that isn’t part of the creative process that either you love the end result or you hate the end result. Like one of the funny.
01:03:40:50 – 01:03:52:58
Agent Palmer
Well, here’s what’s funny about that is that’s a process that I’ve been privy to from the very beginning. Like, this is, this is one of the basis for our friendship we.
01:03:52:59 – 01:03:56:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Have because we we’ve seen each other at our lowest self-loathing points.
01:03:56:49 – 01:03:57:23
Agent Palmer
Because we’ve been.
01:03:57:23 – 01:04:04:10
Agent Palmer
Like, all right, we have a design for like, I remember in particular, a design that went very well that a client didn’t like.
01:04:04:15 – 01:04:05:31
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh, which one was that?
01:04:05:36 – 01:04:07:48
Agent Palmer
I’m not I don’t want to say it.
01:04:07:52 – 01:04:09:08
Agent Palmer
We’re going to some nonprofit.
01:04:09:08 – 01:04:10:41
Agent Palmer
It was it was a nonprofit.
01:04:10:41 – 01:04:13:17
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh wait, I think.
01:04:13:21 – 01:04:14:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:04:14:06 – 01:04:16:20
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh yeah. Yeah okay. Yeah.
01:04:16:20 – 01:04:19:54
Agent Palmer
We’re we’re like signaling to each other. Yeah. So yeah. So he got it right.
01:04:19:54 – 01:04:37:08
Agent Palmer
But like but the process by which we, we got to that for ourselves. The design that we pitched, that’s what you see on the art streams. And I think that as we build community that transparency will be, you know, even more. I think it’s so.
01:04:37:13 – 01:04:53:40
Christopher J. Hughes
I think it’s welcome like one of the it’s like, and I’ll, I’ll, I will always remember this. And even though it was like it just happened like a month and a half ago, one of the first things we did live on an art stream was we built a logo for a YouTube and TikTok content creator, and I drew the whole thing out.
01:04:53:40 – 01:05:23:08
Christopher J. Hughes
Everything was great. I started adding the colors in and I added the colors into the hair, and as soon as I looked at, I went, I hate it. And like and that’s such a normally it’s such a private process. Yeah. So I think, you know, for, for people to realize like, yeah, the first one, the first thing you do is not always a home run, you know, like I even I made my own logo on stream recently and I’m not thrilled with it.
01:05:23:08 – 01:05:26:58
Christopher J. Hughes
I’m already working on version 2.0 because, like, I think it could be better.
01:05:27:01 – 01:05:35:03
Agent Palmer
It doesn’t matter because what he that’s what he says right now. But what he’s really saying is, even if I really liked it, I’d still be working on two.
01:05:35:03 – 01:05:40:05
Agent Palmer
Point oh because that’s who we are. And well, yeah, it’s what we do.
01:05:40:18 – 01:06:02:42
Christopher J. Hughes
Enough is never enough for us, and we’re no. I think the reason this is worked for so long is not only do we want ourselves to be better, we want each other to be better because we know there’s bigger things for both of us on the other side of being better. Well, I think that I think we challenge each other in really unique ways where, like most people think, a friend will just support you.
01:06:02:47 – 01:06:08:47
Christopher J. Hughes
But we know that a friend is going to challenge you to be better.
01:06:08:52 – 01:06:14:59
Agent Palmer
So that’s the last question, right? Is why are we still friends?
01:06:15:04 – 01:06:45:30
Christopher J. Hughes
Where? Because we want more for each other. Yeah, we know that. We know that. Let’s okay, let’s let’s run the list. Right. We know that bosses that we’ve nicknamed after Star Wars villains and destructive devices are not always right. Right. You can. You can be the low man on the totem pole and still be a leader. You don’t need the word executive or president or whatever in your title to be right.
01:06:45:35 – 01:06:55:29
Christopher J. Hughes
And sometimes that can that can be like, it’s a little incestuous. We’re like, well, yeah, of course you’re right. You’re my friend. Like, but it’s not, it’s not just.
01:06:55:33 – 01:07:00:07
Agent Palmer
No, I mean, I’ve, I’ve completely told you you’re wrong before. You’ve done the same for me.
01:07:00:07 – 01:07:00:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah.
01:07:00:53 – 01:07:18:46
Christopher J. Hughes
Because we’ve we’ve wanted each other to pursue. This is going to sound cheesy, but we’ve wanted each other to pursue the most noble of achievements so that we could be greater both personally and professionally.
01:07:18:51 – 01:07:20:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It’s.
01:07:20:31 – 01:07:44:02
Agent Palmer
I mean, I’ve, I’ve always maintained that. And there have been a lot of people to help the Agent Palmer brand over the years. Yeah, but I’ve always maintained your, your persona non grata. You are the first person I try and bring with me if I do this for, like, I legit like, oh, I can make money doing this.
01:07:44:06 – 01:07:53:35
Agent Palmer
And I can pay someone like, you’re the first on the call sheet because you’ve written a few things for me. I’d love for you to write more. I love writing like.
01:07:53:35 – 01:07:55:59
Agent Palmer
Like, I know, so, like, it’s one of.
01:07:55:59 – 01:08:09:57
Agent Palmer
Those things where there was a time a couple of years ago where you started writing a novel. Small short stories. Yeah, in note form and sending me texts of like, here it is.
01:08:09:57 – 01:08:16:23
Agent Palmer
And I put it together in a Google doc right? Yeah. Because, you know, I was like, all right, let’s do this. Well, and then there’s.
01:08:16:23 – 01:08:39:12
Christopher J. Hughes
Other things like that, like, like I thought about recently like, so we started to twitch and we’re helping each other with that because once I, once I make enough to get a payout, I’m definitely dishing back out because part of what we want to do with the twitch is build a good place on the internet. There’s, you know, recently at the time of this recording, within the last month, you know, two prominent Twitch streamers have committed suicide.
01:08:39:12 – 01:09:10:35
Christopher J. Hughes
You know, suicide has touched me personally. So, like, I’m, I’m very aware of the, the impact of a toxic internet culture is and we’re building the, the complete opposite of that. But we want people to feel welcome on the stream. But one of the things that I had attempted to write for you, I think, would translate very well into Twitch content, which is what we had called Legend of Zelda Question of chronology, which is where we would play through the the games in the order of the Nintendo official timeline.
01:09:10:40 – 01:09:24:32
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. So yeah. So like we we’ve never had I feel like we’ve well, no, we’ve definitely had bad ideas. We’ve also had bad ideas that we’ve also had ideas that we were ahead of our own time with.
01:09:24:32 – 01:09:50:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think the other, the it’s the Twitch thing is very interesting to me because of the way the dynamic works, because you and I together are are what I like to call a good community. And that’s a community of two. And what ends up happening because I am me is that if you add one third person to that, there’s always going to be too much.
01:09:50:53 – 01:09:52:46
Agent Palmer
Me like I admit.
01:09:52:46 – 01:09:57:55
Agent Palmer
That like with for me, I am always going to be the two.
01:09:57:55 – 01:10:02:38
Agent Palmer
Abrasive one. And you’ve put up with it and you understand it and you know how to work with it.
01:10:02:43 – 01:10:03:24
Agent Palmer
And it’s one.
01:10:03:24 – 01:10:25:00
Agent Palmer
Of those things where like that third person, whoever it is, can’t write. But in Twitch, the community we’re building, there’s a few more people around that are like you, and I’m trying to take a backseat. So like, it’s not like we’re going to build a community that actually works as opposed to just you and me, which just works just as it is.
01:10:25:05 – 01:10:32:15
Agent Palmer
And it’s one of the endearing qualities, like I have tendencies.
01:10:32:20 – 01:10:39:42
Agent Palmer
And you everybody, that’s a everybody, everybody, everybody who’s close to me puts up with them in some.
01:10:39:42 – 01:10:47:28
Agent Palmer
Way, shape or form. And that is probably the number one reason why we’re friends. And and I love you.
01:10:47:37 – 01:10:48:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Because I’ll put up with your.
01:10:48:43 – 01:10:53:44
Agent Palmer
Tendencies. Is that what you’re saying? Yeah.
01:10:53:54 – 01:10:56:05
Agent Palmer
And and there’s love there, you know?
01:10:56:09 – 01:11:15:23
Christopher J. Hughes
No, there is. And, you know, it’s funny, like, it’s it’s it’s become this weird faux pas. Right? So let’s let’s get into the, into the meta of society for a second because it’s, it’s become faux pas for like two grown adult men, not in a, a physical or emotional relationship to be like, I love you, man.
01:11:15:27 – 01:11:34:32
Christopher J. Hughes
And like, I care. I can no longer count on all my digits the amount of times that, like you and I will have, like, a tough conversation. I’ll be like, I love you, man. Let’s let’s get back at it tomorrow. Like. Yeah. And and because it’s it’s an, a lot of people aren’t fortunate enough to get a friendship that goes that far.
01:11:34:36 – 01:11:53:50
Agent Palmer
That’s true. Yeah. I mean, we’ve, there are people within our from our original college circle that are coming back, but they let like. And it’s not that they left, but people grow apart, and then maybe they come back or whatever. You know, you, you know, the internet’s kind of made it closed like they’ve always been there, but they haven’t really been there.
01:11:53:55 – 01:12:21:19
Christopher J. Hughes
And, and, and social media is, is, a fake. It’s a, it’s a false sense of comfort because you’re not we’re not connected social media connects us, but not in the way that like being up until 3:00 in the morning talking about shit did or was sitting around in, in a room together and not even drinking like we weren’t even, like drinking in college and like, just that camaraderie, that level.
01:12:21:22 – 01:12:26:55
Christopher J. Hughes
And like, if you have to drink to be around those people, those are your friends, those are your drinking buddies, that’s a different class.
01:12:27:00 – 01:12:32:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah. That’s a that’s a very different class. We are, a class unto ourselves.
01:12:32:54 – 01:12:39:34
Christopher J. Hughes
We. Well, yeah. I don’t know if class is the word for us, but.
01:12:39:39 – 01:12:45:09
Christopher J. Hughes
What is it? Kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, species. We’re like our own species, I think sometimes, man.
01:12:45:09 – 01:12:49:01
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. I mean, if you want to lower us below class, that’s fine.
01:12:49:09 – 01:12:53:03
Christopher J. Hughes
I don’t think I have much class, but you tend to think more highly of me, so.
01:12:53:08 – 01:12:56:20
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s where you’re wrong, because you tend to think more highly of me.
01:12:56:33 – 01:13:03:45
Christopher J. Hughes
And that’s why the. You say.
01:13:03:50 – 01:13:08:54
Agent Palmer
You.
01:13:08:59 – 01:13:48:04
Agent Palmer
Wikipedia defines friendship as a relationship of mutual affection between people. My trusty funk and waggles defines it as a mutual regard cherished by kindred minds. Both are accurate, and while the 2nd May be more to my liking, and not just because it’s much more poetic friendship, well, it can be defined by definition is mainly defined by experience. Whether you are still, as I am, friends with someone from high school or college, or someone from long ago, or more recent, you don’t need a definition to know who your friends are.
01:13:48:09 – 01:14:18:49
Agent Palmer
You just know. But how do you know? That’s the whole reason for this four episode series. Perhaps there will be some commonality between my four closest friends, but perhaps I’m the only common theme. No matter the theme, the consistencies, or the aberrations, one thing remains true. These are my friends. By any definition. Thanks for listening to The Polymer Files episode 26.
01:14:18:54 – 01:14:42:29
Agent Palmer
As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, the show at The Palmer Files, and my friend Chris at Triforce D&D 1984. You can also follow him on Instagram or Twitch, where I occasionally join him on stream.
01:14:42:37 – 01:15:20:00
Agent Palmer
Also at Triforce D&D 1984. You can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com, and all links will be available in the show notes. Email can be sent to the show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. If you have any feedback on this or any previous episode, or if there’s a topic or guest you’d like me to consider, or what your thoughts are on this series, you can also hear more of me in the meantime on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Meyer and my other gig as co-host of the podcast digest with Dan was that.
01:15:20:04 – 01:15:33:38
Unknown
He.
01:15:33:42 – 01:15:51:37
Unknown
He.
01:15:51:41 – 01:15:56:05
Unknown
He.
01:15:56:10 – 01:16:04:28
Agent Palmer
Seems all right. Chris, do you have one final question for me?
01:16:04:33 – 01:16:34:56
Christopher J. Hughes
I do. So you and I have, started blogs and podcasts and graphic design companies and website companies and and Twitch streams together. So in a perfect world where we actually got to make money off of a thing together, because let’s be honest, we haven’t figured that part out. Yeah. What what would you like to do that you also don’t think would destroy our friendship?
01:16:34:56 – 01:16:54:12
Christopher J. Hughes
Because sometimes working together with a person can really impact the way that you look at that person long term. So what would you want to do in a perfect world, and not even where money isn’t an object? But we’ve got to make money doing it. What would you want to do together, both as friends and as business partners?
01:16:54:25 – 01:17:15:35
Agent Palmer
So first of all, I just want to say, you and I, one of the things that endears us to each other is that we treat everything like it’s professional. We didn’t start the Twitch stream like, oh, maybe. And I didn’t start the blog like, oh, maybe, like, yeah, they were experiments, but we were going to treat them as professional endeavors.
01:17:15:35 – 01:17:20:48
Agent Palmer
Because if you’re going to do something, do it right.
01:17:20:53 – 01:17:27:09
Christopher J. Hughes
And when you when you do things well, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all.
01:17:27:14 – 01:17:48:58
Agent Palmer
Which is actually very accurate because, like, I’ve spent hours editing or writing or drafting or, you know, for some posts on some movie reviews, like watched a movie three times because I’m like, where’s my angle? Like, I like this movie, but where how do I write about I’m not just going to be like, it’s good. Anyway, all of that aside, right?
01:17:49:03 – 01:17:54:16
Agent Palmer
I think it’s and I’m going to think of the biggest.
01:17:54:21 – 01:17:56:21
Agent Palmer
01:17:56:26 – 01:18:20:35
Agent Palmer
Most pop culture thing I can think of. It’s Nerdist. Right? And whether it’s under the Palmer brand, which I think is probably the way I would go, but it would just be like, all right, here’s Agent Palmer, which would be as synonymous as here’s Nerdist. And what is Nerdist? It’s it’s a blog. It’s started. It’s a podcast.
01:18:20:35 – 01:18:32:31
Agent Palmer
It’s video content. It’s all of the things we’re doing under one umbrella. I hesitate to say Media Corporation, but Nerdist did collaborate. I mean, if their.
01:18:32:31 – 01:18:34:31
Christopher J. Hughes
Thing fits with everything we got to this point.
01:18:34:31 – 01:18:53:48
Agent Palmer
That’s basically what I want to build is an, you know, an umbrella corporation where we can utilize the writing, the audio, the video, the design. I want to use everything because I don’t want to say, like you and I, I’ll do a blog because not that we’ll get sick of it, but like, we want to do other things like it.
01:18:53:53 – 01:19:16:56
Agent Palmer
That would be like taking a caged animal and keeping him caged. It’s like, no, yeah, here’s a here’s the world run. So check it out. All right. Here’s what we do. And that’s what I mean. The one thing is just basically bringing it all together under one umbrella, where we do everything that’s that’s what I want to do.
01:19:17:01 – 01:19:20:37
Christopher J. Hughes
All right, so we’ll figure it out.
01:19:20:42 – 01:19:24:38
Agent Palmer
Figure it out. Is it out? We’ll just we’ll.
01:19:24:38 – 01:19:27:34
Agent Palmer
Just keep going. Yeah. Just keep keep doing what we do.
01:19:27:48 – 01:19:45:31
Christopher J. Hughes
I feel like we’ve been working on that for 18 years. I don’t think it’s going to take us another 18. But, yeah, I know you’re going to come in around and be like, hey, I got an idea and as long as I can, I will always pick up. So let’s let’s go. Let’s get this.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).