Episode 81 features Kelly Fiorini, a teacher turned copywriter who has an amazing story about how that journey transpired with a few tips about trying a career before you go full in.
Plus going abroad, having two vastly different teaching experiences, being an introvert, freelance writing, self-evaluation, and much much more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Why a teacher?
- Majoring in languages
- Studying abroad
- Teaching Expectations vs. Reality
- Career Complacency
- Trying a career first
- Education can be such an amazing thing
- National Boards
- Self-examination
- Are extracurriculars possible for teachers?
- What’s next?
- Exchanging writing for money
- Writing for yourself
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:25:44
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com. Beacon of Hope discovering the legendary Terry Fox through Coupland’s Coffee book. Gonzo reminds us that Hunter S Thompson is far greater than fear. And since last episode. Have you become a tourist in your own town yet? This is The Palmer Files, episode 81 with Kelly Fiorini, a teacher turned copywriter who has an amazing story about how that journey transpired and a few tips about trying a career before you go full in.
00:00:25:51 – 00:01:08:07
Agent Palmer
Plus, going abroad, having two vastly different teaching experiences. Being an introvert, freelance writing, self-evaluation, and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:08:12 – 00:01:33:35
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 81st episode is Kelly Fiorini, who is a freelance copywriter and editor and has changed her profession after nearly a decade in teaching to become a self-employed wordsmith. Her journey is interesting to me, not the least of which is because her journey is the opposite of episode six of this show, where Carl left engineering to become a teacher.
00:01:33:37 – 00:01:56:00
Agent Palmer
Well, maybe it’s not the actual opposite, but career journeys are seldom is linear as they appear. The conversation you are about to hear takes us from Kelly’s days as an undergrad, up through where she is now, and how she made a few decisions along the way that truly changed the direction of her career. We also discussed the importance of a good teacher, career complacency, studying and teaching abroad.
00:01:56:04 – 00:02:20:01
Agent Palmer
Being an introvert, exchanging writing for money, self-examination, looking for what’s next and well, all of that and a whole lot more is coming your way shortly. But first, if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest, Kelly Fiorini at Kelly F copy. That’s Katie ly f Co-Pi and this show at the Palmer Files.
00:02:20:06 – 00:02:38:32
Agent Palmer
You can find more information about Kelly at Kelly fiorini.com. That’s Fiore and I where you can not only contact her or see what she has done, but you can read and follow her blog there as well. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com.
00:02:38:43 – 00:02:48:13
Agent Palmer
So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:48:18 – 00:02:58:01
Agent Palmer
Kelly, you once were a teacher and now you’re not. And we’ll probably get into what you’re doing now. But why did you first become a teacher?
00:02:58:06 – 00:03:10:42
Kelly Fiorini
Okay, well, I have always kind of been interested in teaching. I, I majored in English and German in college, actually.
00:03:10:47 – 00:03:12:21
Agent Palmer
Okay, so hold on.
00:03:12:26 – 00:03:12:56
Kelly Fiorini
Interesting.
00:03:12:56 – 00:03:22:31
Agent Palmer
So we’re going to stop right there because if you’re going to major in in languages. Yeah, you have to become a teacher. Like what other platform is there.
00:03:22:35 – 00:03:28:14
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah. There weren’t a lot of other options. I mean, look, Erin reminded me, well.
00:03:28:19 – 00:03:49:28
Agent Palmer
Okay, so I, a general liberal arts major here. Okay. So it’s not like I was like, oh, I’m going to be an engineer, right? Like I had utterly. No, I is projecting here because this is my am I, I ended up with liberal arts because I didn’t know what I wanted to do. You were interested in languages, but you didn’t know what you wanted to do.
00:03:49:28 – 00:03:52:20
Agent Palmer
Is that how you end up in English and German?
00:03:52:25 – 00:03:53:19
Kelly Fiorini
100%.
00:03:53:19 – 00:03:56:03
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right.
00:03:56:08 – 00:04:02:51
Kelly Fiorini
You know, I was I was that college kid that switched majors. Maybe, you know, seven times. So.
00:04:02:56 – 00:04:17:57
Agent Palmer
Well, that puts you ahead of me, though, because I never switched. I went, what’s the broadest? Like somebody was like, what are you going to major? And I was like, what’s the broadest thing I can do? And that’s what I chose because I, you know, liberal arts. And I was like, oh, I don’t have to make a decision.
00:04:18:09 – 00:04:26:35
Agent Palmer
Like that’s what that meant. So, do you remember what some of the other majors that you changed were?
00:04:26:40 – 00:04:54:22
Kelly Fiorini
Well, it’s interesting. I kind of wanted to go into marketing, and I had to go into psychology and then I just kind of landed eventually on an English, and I had enough credits going into college that I had some, some wiggle room and could pick up major. And I had taken German in high school for all four years.
00:04:54:27 – 00:04:56:58
Kelly Fiorini
And so I decided, okay, why not? Okay. German.
00:04:57:11 – 00:04:58:05
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:04:58:10 – 00:05:17:03
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah. So I became an English and German, double major, and I, I just was really interested in, in different cultures also. And so I decided to study abroad for a year. When I was in college, we went to Austria for a year.
00:05:17:08 – 00:05:45:15
Agent Palmer
So, you and I share that in common a little bit. I, I spent a high school semester in Jerusalem. Oh, so it’s a little younger, right? When. And getting that freedom a little bit younger is a very, I will say, a very dangerous thing, but, the opportunity was presented to me and I took it. And I think most people that have that opportunity to go abroad at a young age take it.
00:05:45:20 – 00:06:01:46
Agent Palmer
I went in with no expectations. It’s just like, oh, I, I don’t have to be in my stuffy high school, right? Like that’s what it was to me for you going abroad. Was it like, this is just going to be a did you have any idea or was it like, I just want to get out of here?
00:06:01:51 – 00:06:22:37
Kelly Fiorini
I think it, it was more along the lines of, I just want to get out of here. I expand my world view a little bit and see what else was out there. Like you said, I didn’t really have many expectations. I didn’t go in with the list of other countries I wanted to visit or things that I do.
00:06:22:37 – 00:06:30:11
Kelly Fiorini
I, I was not a planner that way. I was just kind of like, you know, this sounds like a cool opportunity. I think this is the time to do this.
00:06:30:16 – 00:06:40:55
Agent Palmer
And so at this point, do you know, like, all right, I’m going to be a teacher or like, is it still like, I’m still trying to figure out my place?
00:06:40:59 – 00:07:05:20
Kelly Fiorini
Yes, it was more of the latter. I’m still trying out my place. I had always kind of thought about teaching, but not super seriously. I felt like there was something else out there that could be cool. Maybe I just didn’t know about it yet. You know, like, I still wanted to kind of explore my options, so I wasn’t really 100% sure.
00:07:05:25 – 00:07:25:51
Agent Palmer
Now I, I like to ask people who ended up being teachers this when you first think about teaching as an option, you know, with given your majors, is it just, you know, like a professor? Is it middle school? Is it like when you like, if I, if I try and take you back to then and go, you might be a teacher.
00:07:26:02 – 00:07:33:21
Agent Palmer
Like, what does that conjure in your mind versus what the reality was like. Do you know what you thought?
00:07:33:26 – 00:08:11:58
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah. It’s interesting. I mean, that’s a really interesting question to me. I don’t know. I think I had a kind of a positive view, probably a pretty naive view of teaching, you know, just as something just very, very wholesome and and wonderful, which, you know, is part of it. Definitely. For sure. But I definitely wanted to, you know, explore that as a career path and then also kind of just keep my options open.
00:08:12:02 – 00:08:21:37
Agent Palmer
So in hindsight, because we have the benefit of hindsight, do you know what those other options would have been maybe back then?
00:08:21:41 – 00:08:45:57
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah. You know, I had this idea that maybe it would be cool to be an editor. I thought that seemed really cool. Like a cool thing to do with an English degree. But I had no idea how to get into that at all. I mean, that just seems like some nebulous thing, you know? Like how how does one go out and just say, I’m.
00:08:46:02 – 00:08:48:39
Kelly Fiorini
I’m here, I’m an editor. I’m ready.
00:08:48:43 – 00:08:52:59
Agent Palmer
Well, when you say editor, though, books, newspaper. Like what?
00:08:53:11 – 00:09:08:25
Kelly Fiorini
I think maybe books, magazines. Okay, that kind of stuff. I didn’t know there was anything really else to edit at the time. You know, like when I, where I, you know, that was about it, right? I don’t know.
00:09:08:30 – 00:09:38:40
Agent Palmer
I, I, when I finally when I got back from overseas and I went to college, my liberal arts, majors, I had, a choice and I stayed as the second class of four year degrees at my institution, and I chose two minors. And instead of having, like, a real major because I don’t, I still don’t consider liberal arts a real major.
00:09:38:45 – 00:10:10:24
Agent Palmer
But I went with, feature writing journalism as one. And the other one was, I’m going to get this wrong. I think it was like internal and corporate communication or something like that. Right. I’ve used both extensively in a career that really has bounced around all over the place and is now just consulting, but I didn’t have a like a foresight to be like, oh, this is what I want to do.
00:10:10:29 – 00:10:24:22
Agent Palmer
Like, there was that it was more like, this is what I think I’m interested in, by the way, that hesitation has never wavered like it’s always been. I, I think I wanted to do this.
00:10:24:27 – 00:10:25:05
Kelly Fiorini
Yes.
00:10:25:10 – 00:10:36:00
Agent Palmer
When you first of all, you chose English and German. Was there a hesitation when you chose that or were you like, no, this is I’m interested in this. Let’s go.
00:10:36:05 – 00:11:01:59
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah, I there is a little bit of a hesitation only because my parents were trying to put some, you know, common sense into me and say, you know, where is this going to lead? You know, as parents sometimes do. So I, I think there was a little hesitation about that because I was a pleaser and I wanted to make them happy.
00:11:02:04 – 00:11:19:43
Kelly Fiorini
But I also knew that more than anything, I really liked to read and to write, and I loved language. And so, you know, if I was going to be taking all of these classes for the major, it just made sense to me to do something that I really like.
00:11:19:48 – 00:11:56:06
Agent Palmer
I, I have my parents are both within the liberal, the arts and humanities as well. I’ll say, I have an uncle, though, who’s a PhD who mercilessly and to this day was like, you should have just gone to engineering because, like, they can’t teach engineers to write, but they can teach you to be an engineer. And so I still hear from him, about that because, you know, you’d be you’d be eminently more employable now if you had a degree in engineering and you could write like you, you know, it’s all right.
00:11:56:18 – 00:12:07:28
Agent Palmer
That ship has sailed, I get it. So your time overseas, obviously comes to an end, and you’ve got to come back to the real world.
00:12:07:33 – 00:12:09:09
Kelly Fiorini
Yes.
00:12:09:13 – 00:12:14:48
Agent Palmer
Is it just. I think I’ll teach because this is my degree.
00:12:14:53 – 00:12:51:16
Kelly Fiorini
Well, I, so I finished up college, and I think I still needed more time to still. Okay, I was not I was not really sure what I wanted to do. I did not know how my skill set was really going to fit into the real world. Yet I wasn’t 100% right down to the idea of teaching. So, I decided to go abroad again, and I, went to Austria again for a second year, but just as a Fulbright teaching assistant.
00:12:51:20 – 00:12:52:13
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:12:52:17 – 00:12:59:00
Kelly Fiorini
So teaching, helping to teach English, to middle schoolers over in Austria.
00:12:59:13 – 00:13:22:03
Agent Palmer
Okay. And and you came back from that because I know, I know quite a few people. I have a very good friend I went to high school with who did, who was a teacher that was teaching English to students in Korea. And then he moved to Japan and was helping teach English to, Japanese students.
00:13:22:14 – 00:13:34:46
Agent Palmer
And then eventually he, you know, fast forward a decade, 12 years later, he’s like, I think I’m ready to come home now. So that’s why I ask, because in my experience, you don’t always just end the program and come home.
00:13:34:51 – 00:14:00:31
Kelly Fiorini
Yes. No, I mean, that’s a great point. It it was it was challenging to leave Europe, to leave Austria. I absolutely loved it there. And I was about to get married, though, so marriage brought me home. Okay. Yeah. You know, so that was kind of something new and fresh to be excited about. I had a wedding.
00:14:00:35 – 00:14:08:24
Kelly Fiorini
And so, otherwise, I don’t know. I don’t know how long I would have stayed over there for. Probably a good long while.
00:14:08:28 – 00:14:19:56
Agent Palmer
All right, so you come back. And where does the career fall in relation to the wedding? Because obviously when you come back, it’s not like you have a job waiting for you.
00:14:20:01 – 00:14:54:52
Kelly Fiorini
Right? No, I didn’t, so I came back and I was I was frantically looking for jobs and I found one as basically a database editor. It was kind of a interesting job. I basically read German arts magazines. So, you very niche kind of thing. Yeah. I read German arts magazines and wrote abstracts on all of the articles and assignments, research indexing terms.
00:14:55:01 – 00:14:55:56
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:14:56:00 – 00:15:08:45
Kelly Fiorini
Yep. So, you know, I found it. I found that job. It seemed to fit with my English and German background, and not many things did. So I went for it and I, I stayed there for a few years.
00:15:08:50 – 00:15:32:15
Agent Palmer
Okay. I mean, that seems like such a stroke of fortune for you. I mean, obviously you’re not there anymore, but like that, that fits. You know, it’s not only the the two languages, but it’s within the arts, which. Yeah, you know, if you’re not going to be in writing and like editing, being in the arts is like really close to that.
00:15:32:20 – 00:15:49:34
Kelly Fiorini
Yes, absolutely. So it it did feel like a stroke of luck that and you know, at this point I still did not know. And like, I knew that wasn’t going to be what I did forever. Okay. But for then it seemed like a really a really good fit.
00:15:49:39 – 00:16:18:48
Agent Palmer
Okay. And so are the wheels turning because so I will I will be honest with you, I had two, seven plus year stints right out of college. I ended up in retail for seven years, and then I finally forced my way out of retail into a professional marketing gig, and I was there for nine years. And in both of those situations, no matter how much I either loved or hated them, I stopped thinking about what was next.
00:16:18:52 – 00:16:45:08
Agent Palmer
And this is me right out of college. This is the first two jobs I have right out of college. I had two jobs in 18 years and I didn’t think about what was next. I it’s only now that I’ve been in all this turmoil that I’ve been focused on what’s next. Even when I’m doing what I’m doing. So while you’re in the database writing abstracts, are you thinking at all about what’s next?
00:16:45:08 – 00:16:54:54
Agent Palmer
I mean, obviously you just said, like, you know, this isn’t for permanent, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re like, oh, I have an idea of what’s next.
00:16:54:59 – 00:17:10:20
Kelly Fiorini
Yes. No, that’s a really interesting point, actually. And I absolutely relate to it because, I mean, I was I’m the kind of person, I guess, that I’m happy with just kind of being comfortable.
00:17:10:20 – 00:17:16:09
Agent Palmer
And there’s nothing wrong with being comfortable. That’s why we call it comfortable.
00:17:16:14 – 00:17:38:03
Kelly Fiorini
Right? And so I’m like, this is this is okay. This is all right. You know, I’m I’ve got a good solid job. I’m making enough to support myself. And, you know, the people I worked with were nice. And so, and my husband, my, my new husband at the time, he got a job there as well.
00:17:38:03 – 00:17:55:47
Kelly Fiorini
So we were both working there. You know, he was this. And then in the next room over. So, you know, for me, at the time, I was like, this is this is okay. Like, I knew in the back of my mind, I guess that it wasn’t going to be forever, but I didn’t actively plan a way out, you know?
00:17:56:00 – 00:18:09:14
Agent Palmer
Okay, so what? I don’t need the gory details, but like, obviously at some point you’re not there anymore, right? So, so just a quick yes or no. Was it your decision to leave?
00:18:09:19 – 00:18:09:42
Kelly Fiorini
Yes.
00:18:09:44 – 00:18:10:58
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right.
00:18:10:59 – 00:18:39:55
Kelly Fiorini
Yes. It was my decision to leave. I, I did get to a point. Finally, I don’t know how many years I was there, but or or so. But I did get to a point where, you know, I was by myself in the cubicle all day long. I mean, it’s completely independent solo work. Migrate any cubicle, you know, doing the same thing day in, day out.
00:18:39:55 – 00:19:13:39
Kelly Fiorini
And I just got I’m ready for something new. Okay. Yeah, I my husband, went into teaching. He he jumped first. Okay. He’s like, what I kind of want to do something that is a little bit more engaging, interactive. I’ve always kind of thought about teaching. And so, you know, he, he kind of jumped first and went and got his masters in teaching and, and I watched him and supported him going through that process, you know.
00:19:13:39 – 00:19:22:01
Kelly Fiorini
And then I was like, you know what? That seems like a pretty good idea. I’ve got no better ideas.
00:19:22:03 – 00:19:23:51
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah.
00:19:23:56 – 00:19:34:45
Kelly Fiorini
I loved working with, I mean, I, I’ve always loved working with kids and, you know, just to kind of make sure I went out and I got a tutoring job at a local tutoring center. Yeah.
00:19:34:45 – 00:19:48:04
Agent Palmer
That’s smart. Like, I’m. Yeah, you you you are immediately smarter than almost everyone. Because, like, most people don’t do the try before you by as far as careers go. And that’s exactly what you did. And that’s brilliant.
00:19:48:09 – 00:20:11:48
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah. Yeah. And it was good. You know, it was so refreshing that, you know, I, I tutored, all kinds of things from elementary all the way up to high school to kids working on, you know, SAT prep. And, you know, it was just so refreshing. You know, kids bring such a unique and fresh perspective and I, I was like, yeah, this is what I’m missing.
00:20:11:48 – 00:20:16:52
Kelly Fiorini
This is what I need. And decided to go back and get my masters in teaching too.
00:20:17:04 – 00:20:18:07
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right.
00:20:18:07 – 00:20:18:33
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah.
00:20:18:38 – 00:20:48:51
Agent Palmer
So I’ve, I’ve heard we don’t need to go through the whole I’ve heard a lot of horror stories about people with teaching degrees trying to become teachers. We’re going to skip that because I, we know that you I know and you know now that the audience knows you became a teacher. So what’s your first gig when you finally get get, you know, actually, when you finally get your first gig, Miss Fiorini, is it Miss Fiorini or is it Miss Kelly?
00:20:48:52 – 00:21:01:14
Agent Palmer
Because I maybe it’s my age showing, but, like, I remember not calling Miss First name or Mister First name. I remember that at a certain point in my education.
00:21:01:19 – 00:21:29:52
Kelly Fiorini
Yes. Yeah. No. Everybody called me Miss Fiorini. Some of you know, I. I got a lot of various nicknames over the years when they, they couldn’t sometimes pronounce fiorini so altered into various forms. But, but yeah, I got my first, my first teaching gig at an amazing school. I got really lucky again. Really, really great school.
00:21:29:52 – 00:22:00:30
Kelly Fiorini
I was teaching seventh and eighth grade. And I really loved it. I actually, as a teacher, I only taught at two different schools. So over the ten years that I was teaching. So the first one was this really small school. I had really small class sizes. Was basically living the teaching dream. But I did leave because basically I wanted to go teach in the district that I hadn’t been taught in and that our kids were going to school in.
00:22:00:34 – 00:22:12:21
Kelly Fiorini
Okay. So that just made sense to me. And I just kind of wanted to push myself and and try something new. I think now position.
00:22:12:26 – 00:22:23:07
Agent Palmer
So you this, this seventh and eighth grade first gig, dream when you change are the class sizes bigger?
00:22:23:12 – 00:22:50:49
Kelly Fiorini
Yes, yes. Much bigger. Much bigger classes. I at my first school I think I had, you know, 12, 16 kids in a class, even though it was a public school. So it was very small. But, you know, that meant that also on the flip side, I was the only seventh and eighth grade language arts teacher, and you know that that’s tricky because you know how everybody to collaborate, really.
00:22:50:49 – 00:23:05:56
Kelly Fiorini
And, to learn stuff from. So, you know, I kind of gave up the small, small class sizes, but I, I gained a team and collaborators and all kinds of other wonderful things.
00:23:06:01 – 00:23:08:15
Agent Palmer
Did you stay in seventh and eighth grade?
00:23:08:19 – 00:23:29:39
Kelly Fiorini
I did, I did the eighth grade teacher my whole career. A lot of times when I tell people I, was a middle school teacher, they were like, oh, I could never teach the middle school age, but I just love that age so much. It’s it’s just so fun to me. They’re really becoming who they’re going to be.
00:23:29:43 – 00:23:55:02
Agent Palmer
In hindsight, when I think back, yes, absolutely. But then again, like, I’m, this is not going to come as a shock to anybody listening. And this is definitely not going to be this is actually going to come a shock to my parents who will and get me to admit this, like I was a troublemaker. Not for any particular reason other than I was bored.
00:23:55:06 – 00:24:23:50
Agent Palmer
And I don’t. And that I’m not going to name my high school, but, like, let’s be real, I was probably more well-read than most of my English teachers. Well, because I grew up in a house where reading was important and I and and I was stuck in a very rural, not small. So class size I was, I was stuck in a very rural, educational system that was not backwards, but it was rigid and there was no room for thought.
00:24:23:54 – 00:24:50:46
Agent Palmer
And that, that, that that just made me bored. So if you challenged me, right, like, if you came at me with, like, how come you haven’t raised your hand in two weeks? I was going to ask you a question you couldn’t possibly answer. And I knew that I was going to be that student. I feel bad, maybe I slightly feel bad that I did that to some some teachers, but they weren’t engaging me.
00:24:50:56 – 00:25:15:44
Agent Palmer
So I, I look at I hear you and I go, well, you would have been a perfect teacher for me. But I didn’t have what I had in high school. I had maybe two teachers that really understood students. Not I’m not going to say me, but they understood students. Everybody else. It was, it I, we we escaped.
00:25:15:44 – 00:25:36:21
Agent Palmer
The people that I talked to from that high school, we escaped. We didn’t survive it. It was just it was escape. And it’s kind of one of the reasons that I’m fascinated by teachers because, like, if you think it’s a good gig and you run into me, you might you might reconsider if I’m on a bad day, like, I’m not.
00:25:36:26 – 00:25:49:54
Kelly Fiorini
Absolutely not though. Absolutely not. Like I, I can kind of picture you as a as a middle school student, you know, and I, I just think you would be super fun if you.
00:25:49:59 – 00:26:16:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but. Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, look, when, when I was abroad, I had a, a history teacher who, let us discuss history, so it wasn’t. And I think that was one of the reasons that I had a problem in my real high. My my original high school was it was it was so. So I would have I’m trying to do the math here.
00:26:16:43 – 00:26:37:09
Agent Palmer
I was supposed to I skipped a year. I got out of there a year early, thank God. But like, I would have graduated in 2001. Instead, I was on college, a college campus in 2001. But at that time, in the late 90s, early aughts, at least in my school district and the school districts around me, as I found out later, it was all about test scores.
00:26:37:09 – 00:27:06:27
Agent Palmer
It wasn’t really about teaching, necessarily, as the way we think about teaching. And I think that I had a problem being like everybody else. And you know, I, I don’t know, it’s it’s very weird because like you, you, you grow up especially middle and high school that’s all you know. And unless you move around you think everybody else has that experience.
00:27:06:32 – 00:27:29:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Because there’s, you know, there’s other kids out there and they’re sitting in their class waiting to just whatever, like they can’t be having fun either. And then you run into teachers that are like, no, I had great students like, wait, what? That wasn’t that wasn’t my experience. That’s not fair. I mean, I’ve gotten over it. Like I’m not bitter, but like to hear you say that you would have had fun with me.
00:27:29:18 – 00:27:40:49
Agent Palmer
That’s that’s unique because I feel like in my entire career as a student, I’ve had maybe even in college, I had maybe a handful of teachers that I can say that about.
00:27:40:54 – 00:28:14:57
Kelly Fiorini
And that’s, you know, that’s that’s a shame, I think, because, I mean, education can be such an amazing thing, can be such an amazing thing. And I, I can hear what you’re saying because, I mean, to your point, I think, you know, at about the same age you are, and, I mean, my educational experience was a lot of different than the educational experiences of my students, you know, all these years later.
00:28:15:00 – 00:28:54:27
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah, right. And so I feel like education has come a long way. There’s still a long way to go, though. Yeah. I’m not saying it’s it’s all perfect and rosy by any means. But and, you know, there is a lot of that one size fits all, I think, in, in the educational system. But just for me, I just think of my personal experience as a teacher and the big thing for me, the thing that made teaching so interesting and exciting, was basically like meeting students where they are.
00:28:54:38 – 00:28:56:37
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:28:56:42 – 00:29:45:14
Kelly Fiorini
And for who, for whom they are, you know, at that moment in time, there are. So that’s what made it so much fun for me, is there? I tried to build connections with, you know, the super wired, my students that hardly said anything the whole year and also build connections. And, you know, with the students that didn’t ever want to sit down, that just and, and, move around and while we read a story, so, you know, there were students that were struggling with personal issues and are students, you know, and that kind of prevents them from being in a mindset and a place where they they can’t learn.
00:29:45:14 – 00:30:15:57
Kelly Fiorini
And, where they can learn. And, you know, there’s just so many different students and personalities. And for me, you know, and I’ve always been kind of interested in psychology, you know, it’s the psychology aspect of it that was really interesting. And just building, like forming those human connections. And because I think you can’t really teach a child unless you relate to them, unless you connect to them in some way.
00:30:16:09 – 00:30:35:14
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, that’s that’s, that’s why I can blame a really good English teacher for taking me off of a science track. Right. Like, and I, I, I joke like, I, and I joke about it now because I’m very much in the arts and humanities, not only because of my college experience, but because that’s where I ended up post college.
00:30:35:14 – 00:31:05:11
Agent Palmer
In my my hobbies are blogging and podcasting and producing movies and doing this and like, I’m, I’m in the arts and humanities, but I go back to seventh or eighth grade and I thought I was going to be in science. And then I had one amazing English teacher and in like one semester, I went from all science and all math to like, no, it’s all about English and literature and the arts.
00:31:05:11 – 00:31:29:31
Agent Palmer
Now, and that’s one that’s one teacher. Right? Like, I not I, you know, there’s arguments to be said that I would end up here anyway, but that’s the that’s what, that’s what you’re talking about. That’s that one connection along the line of like, okay, that’s a person who gets it or who is willing to talk to me on that level.
00:31:29:36 – 00:31:40:14
Kelly Fiorini
Yes. No. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I think that is what is so cool about teaching. That is the magical thing.
00:31:40:27 – 00:32:05:02
Agent Palmer
But it’s it’s got to be a lot though, right? Like, I mean, you’re not there anymore. But like, it’s got to be a lot like, there’s got to be a lot. So like, I know obviously you talk about it glowingly because you enjoyed your time, but there’s it. It cannot be all roses the whole way. So like, you’re not there.
00:32:05:07 – 00:32:18:53
Agent Palmer
I guess let’s go with the, the thought process. Like you’re you’re a teacher. When do you start thinking maybe I won’t be a teacher? Like, where does that come in? Because obviously it’s not like you woke up one morning. You went, oh, I’m done with that.
00:32:18:58 – 00:32:47:06
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah. No, I mean, you’re you’re absolutely right. So and that’s a great question. I okay, so I told you I taught for ten years. Yeah, I would say so around year. At the beginning of your eight, I started doing a program. Well, the national boards. Okay, get this national board certification. It’s it’s a 1 to 2 year process.
00:32:47:06 – 00:33:25:59
Kelly Fiorini
I did mine, and it’s this really rigorous, intensive process, where, you know, you have to film yourself teaching and analyze it and write up all these, you know, all these papers and, teach different lessons and reflect on them and, you know, and it went well, and I got approved. I got my national boards, and I think, you know, so obviously I went through this whole process and, you know, thinking I was going to stay in teaching, I wouldn’t have committed to it if I if it’s a hard teaching.
00:33:26:04 – 00:33:57:27
Kelly Fiorini
But I think it’s part of what sent me on an teacher just because I, I finished the program and started year ten and I, I was like, you know what? I think I’ve kind of done everything I can do here. You know, I have my master’s, I, I had the national boards. I’ve, you know, made a difference to so many students.
00:33:57:27 – 00:34:07:24
Kelly Fiorini
I know I did, and knew it. I kind of I’m wondering if if there’s something else out there for me.
00:34:07:28 – 00:34:38:15
Agent Palmer
Was it the boards that see to me, like listening? It’s the it’s the self. It’s the tape yourself. And look at yourself. That really starts the internal monologue. Because for me and this is not this is very apples to oranges, but it’s all I have. When I started this podcast. It’s listening back to yourself. It’s analyzing yourself, even though I’m just editing it to, you know, maybe take out a few seconds or, you know, I mispronounce the word or whatever.
00:34:38:19 – 00:35:00:21
Agent Palmer
I’m not editing to, like, edit a 90 minute conversation down to 15 minutes. So I’m hearing myself and you analyze your so you can’t help but self analyze. We do it when we’re not like looking at a recording of ourselves. Right. So like your mind starts to wander a bit and you go like what am I doing? What am I listening to?
00:35:00:23 – 00:35:09:10
Agent Palmer
What am I watching? Right? And I feel like there’s a part of me that listens to you going like, well, if you never took the boards, you’d still be a teacher.
00:35:09:15 – 00:35:39:15
Kelly Fiorini
No. And it could be. I mean, that is a really valid that is a really valid point. And I will tell you there’s there’s nothing worse than, you know, watching the same tape of you teaching a hundred times in a row, and taking it apart. But, you know, I think part of it, too, I mean, the pandemic is really tough on a lot of teachers, clearly have teachers leaving the profession in droves.
00:35:39:15 – 00:36:05:08
Kelly Fiorini
Honestly, and, you know, because we we did some teaching virtually. We were in person. We, we did kind of a hybrid model for a while. And, you know, there was just there’s a lot of social emotional stress, transitions and all of that. And so you know, I think that probably played a role. Sure. Yeah.
00:36:05:12 – 00:36:23:44
Kelly Fiorini
I think it was just the convergence of so many different factors, really. And it came to a head and I was like, I think it was October of last year. So almost a year now where I was just kind of like, you know what? I am wondering if there’s something else out there for me now.
00:36:23:49 – 00:36:44:16
Agent Palmer
Do you have any idea of what that something. I mean, as we’re sitting here a year later, you you’re doing something, and we’ll get to that. But like, at that moment, like there’s something else out there, of course, like, you could be a golfer, a truck driver, you know, a brick builder, like a paint, like there’s you name it, you could do it.
00:36:44:21 – 00:37:01:13
Kelly Fiorini
I love that. Yeah, I know, but you know what? I, I had gotten into a place, honestly, a psychological place where I’m like. I was like, you know, this is it for me teaching. Is it for me? This is what I’m going to do the rest of my life. And I don’t know what else I would possibly do besides be a teacher.
00:37:01:13 – 00:37:20:40
Kelly Fiorini
And I don’t know what kind of a lot of self-doubt. I’m like, I don’t know what kind of skills I have to offer. Any other profession, any other, job. I think this is really all I can. Start to think about now, but I that’s all I was.
00:37:20:42 – 00:37:39:55
Agent Palmer
Well. Oh. So okay, so we’re going to go backwards before we go forwards. I, was lucky enough in my marketing profession for the nine years where I could start the blog that I have now, and I could dip my toe into podcasting because I had a 9 to 5 and I didn’t have to really bring work home with me.
00:37:40:00 – 00:38:04:33
Agent Palmer
And, I could easily, you know, argue that my writing for the blog would enhance my skills as a marketer. And my conversation skills would, help me with storytelling as a more like I could argue that. Right? And I was able to dabble in all these other things. Teaching is a different level of energy, right? Like, were you able to not have hobbies?
00:38:04:33 – 00:38:18:58
Agent Palmer
Because I think that the what I just described are like creative pursuits, not just hobbies. So were you able to have, like, other creative pursuits, while teaching? Is that is that even possible? Do you have energy for that?
00:38:19:03 – 00:38:53:58
Kelly Fiorini
It’s really interesting. So okay, so because I’ve thought about this a lot because creativity is something that’s really important to me. But in the beginning, no, like I those first few years where I was a brand new teacher, I mean, I dropped basically all the extra things in my life. I dropped reading even, which is horrible to admit as a, you know, like, I, I dropped reading, I dropped writing, I, I didn’t have hardly any hobbies because I was just kind of frantically trying to figure out this whole teaching thing.
00:38:53:58 – 00:39:16:29
Kelly Fiorini
And then but then as time went on and I got more, you know, I kind of figured it out. I, got a routine down and I had a better sense of what I was doing. Then I was able to add hobbies and other creative things back in, and so, you know, I started reading again and I started writing again.
00:39:16:29 – 00:39:45:39
Kelly Fiorini
Just journaling. Nothing very vague. And, you know, found other hobbies, like, I like decorating and refinishing furniture and all kinds of things. I, I found all kinds of ways to kind of keep myself entertained and busy, but, on the whole, you know, I’m an introvert for sure. And teaching is a profession that requires you to be on all the time.
00:39:45:44 – 00:40:05:47
Kelly Fiorini
So I would come home during the during the workweek, and I would be super drains that, you know, just basically to, you know, it’s been a little bit of time with my kids and, and that’s about it. So on the weekends I was, I was, you know, doing hobbies and stuff, but not, not during the week.
00:40:05:52 – 00:40:35:06
Agent Palmer
I, I am an introvert. People don’t think I am, but I’m absolutely in nature. I’d like backed into a corner. I can be an extrovert. You know, like if I for work functions when back when I was in marketing, I could work a room. I didn’t want to work room. Right. Like there’s a difference between having the ability to and then, like, you know, because I walk in and I’m quiet until they’re like, yo, Jason, walk like, say hello.
00:40:35:11 – 00:40:57:19
Agent Palmer
All right. I’ll, you know, I’ll do the versus, like the people I walked in with. Like, I had a buddy who would just he would just immediately be like, hey, yeah, hey by all my buddy. Like, that was him. I had to be forced to do it. So I get you there like, it’s it’s not easy. And there I think it’s lost on people.
00:40:57:19 – 00:41:25:53
Agent Palmer
Mainly because introverts don’t talk about this enough is just how draining it is to turn that switch on. It is, it’s like running and it’s like running two marathons in the span of everybody else running one, because you just your anxiety’s up at another level and your head’s on a swivel, so to speak. You’re not like, looking for like, enemy attacks or anything, but you’re not quite sure you’re because you’re not in your element, right?
00:41:25:53 – 00:41:45:12
Agent Palmer
Like you’re in a strange place, even if you’ve been there 100 times. So like, I get it. And that it’s a it’s a weird place to be. Did it ever become like, are you still an introvert now? Like, did it, did it change you being on for seven years?
00:41:45:17 – 00:42:15:39
Kelly Fiorini
It it did change me for sure. And, you know, I think it felt it helped me kind of grow in my interactions with people. You know, it helped me learn how to communicate with people. And, you know, even, versus words, you know, I’ve always been okay with doing, like, the written word thing. But it pushed me out of my comfort zone for sure.
00:42:15:44 – 00:42:39:44
Kelly Fiorini
Having to talk to kids and sometimes having it, you know, it. Parents call parents, open house nights, all of that. I always say it’s it’s much harder for me to talk to parents. And it is kids. Kids on a completely different level. Sure, but, but, yeah, I completely get was get what you’re saying because, I think it’s so true.
00:42:39:44 – 00:43:02:02
Kelly Fiorini
I think, you know, introvert versus extrovert, a lot of times people think it’s cool talking to if you are, but really it’s about, you know, what, where your energy is, you know, what drains you versus what energizes you. And definitely after a day of teaching, I, I would feel drained instead of energized.
00:43:02:07 – 00:43:22:04
Agent Palmer
All right. So let’s go forward now. And you’re like, okay, there’s got to be something else. And like I said, the and the world’s your oyster. Like, there’s a lot you can do. You know, what are you doing now? Let’s start there.
00:43:22:08 – 00:44:09:36
Kelly Fiorini
Well, my turn to Google. Not going to lie, I ask Google. Google the magic eight ball. Basically, what should I do with my life? And I, I literally started googling, you know what? What careers in can teachers explore? Okay. And, you know, I started just kind of going down, going down lists like pulling up listicles and writing things out as I went and, right, like pretty soon toward the, you know, I don’t know, after reading like maybe three articles, I’m like, you know what?
00:44:09:40 – 00:44:36:36
Kelly Fiorini
Freelance writing. That’s that’s the thing. I think that’s that’s going to be what I can do. Because, you know, the, during the pandemic, when we were working, when we were teaching remotely, I, a lot of people didn’t like it, but I really liked being at home. I liked teaching from my house and feeling like I was here in my own little introvert cave.
00:44:36:40 – 00:44:54:11
Kelly Fiorini
And so I was like, ooh, freelance writing. Like writing I can do. And I’m pretty sure. And I’m pretty sure I can still do that. And, you know, being at home and and setting my own hours sounds pretty nice. So let me look into that a little bit more.
00:44:54:25 – 00:45:00:49
Agent Palmer
Did you try before you buy on this one?
00:45:00:53 – 00:45:32:23
Kelly Fiorini
You know what? Yes. Okay. I just I, I went into a remember it so clearly because this was right around our, our celebrate as teachers. So, like I said, it was really around the whatever. And when it hit me, like, what if I’m going to go for this? I need to I need to just do it because I’m somebody that will ruminate over decision forever.
00:45:32:23 – 00:45:56:36
Kelly Fiorini
And, you know, doubt in my mind a million times. And then three years later, I still haven’t done anything. So I just kind of went into overdrive mode. And even during that spring break, I mean, that fall break, I was just researching like, what types of freelance writers were there? Like, I didn’t even know that there were people that did this as a full time career.
00:45:56:36 – 00:46:20:49
Kelly Fiorini
So like looking into all what types of freelance writers are and how does one become a freelance writer and what do I what skills do I need to have? And just googling the heck out of it. And I had a notebook and I wrote down everything I learned in this, this physical notebook, and just, you know, worked myself through the process.
00:46:20:49 – 00:46:36:30
Kelly Fiorini
And so I was like, you know, this is it. This is this is what I’m going to do. And like you said, I wanted to try before I, you know, committed. And so I decided I was going to do it part time on time.
00:46:36:35 – 00:46:37:26
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:46:37:31 – 00:46:59:29
Kelly Fiorini
Before I made any, you know, pivotal life decisions. So that’s that’s kind of what I did. I, I created a little website and I got yeah, it needs so much work, but I spent 60, 70 hours teaching myself how to do.
00:46:59:34 – 00:47:32:58
Agent Palmer
You got to remember something. And this is the dirtiest secret in marketing and the service industry. Your own house is always the worst one, right? It doesn’t matter what it is like. You’re, you know, you’re you’re a you’re an editor. Your website’s not going to be nearly as great as the stuff you do for other people. And the right, it’s oh, it’s always that way because we spend as a as a consultant in general, regardless of your field, you spend so much time on your clients.
00:47:32:58 – 00:47:58:52
Agent Palmer
You you’re you’re never your own number one client. Everybody else is your number one client. So it’s you have no excuses to make here because I’m, I have my own agency and I don’t even have a website anymore. It just redirects to my blog right now, which is not really professional, but not unprofessional. Anyway, it they could all use work.
00:47:58:57 – 00:48:20:25
Agent Palmer
But I do. It leads me to this. When you get your first gig, what is the sense of relief or what is the sense? Maybe not relief, but what is the sense when you send in the words and they go, yeah, we like it. Here’s some money. Like, what is that like? Because that’s a, that’s a first for you.
00:48:20:29 – 00:48:52:37
Kelly Fiorini
Yes. It’s, that’s a, that’s a crazy, crazy feeling. I gosh, I felt so lucky when I got my first clients. I got my first clients. Well actually I got my very first client through Upwork, the freelancing platform. Yep. And I, I remember just being ecstatic that somebody would want to pay me to write something. And it wasn’t much.
00:48:52:41 – 00:49:37:16
Kelly Fiorini
I think they were going to pay me, $25 for 1000 words. Yeah. But, you know, I was like, hey, you know, it’s something it’s it’s proof that that you can exchange writing for money. Yeah. You know, somebody will pay you for that. So I was just ecstatic. And the people that, you know, I was working for, for that job were just so lovely and so nice and, you know, I remember even just getting on a zoom call with them and thinking, oh, I’m in this zoom call with someone, like, not about teaching, like something totally new and different and just feeling like it made it feel really real.
00:49:37:16 – 00:49:44:34
Kelly Fiorini
Like this is something that could happen. I could see myself doing this in the future. And and that was super exciting.
00:49:44:39 – 00:49:54:18
Agent Palmer
So the question I have for you, because this is what you do now, is do you still write for yourself?
00:49:54:23 – 00:50:21:29
Kelly Fiorini
It’s a great question. I do I mean, I to be honest, I, I don’t write every day for myself less because sometimes I get to the end of my, my work day and I, I think I, I’ve written all I can write today. You know, it’s just maxed out. I but I still like it and it, it it’s a different type of writing for me.
00:50:21:29 – 00:50:23:22
Kelly Fiorini
I do a lot of reflective writing.
00:50:23:36 – 00:50:24:44
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:50:24:48 – 00:50:46:02
Kelly Fiorini
Just because it helps me process what’s going on in my world and in my head and it it’s just a really, I don’t know, a good way for me to manage anxiety and stress and all of that stuff. But, you know, I do like to do some creative writing to, not as much as I used to back in college.
00:50:46:02 – 00:51:01:55
Kelly Fiorini
I was like the editor of our college literary magazine. And I was super into it. Like, I love creative writing so much. And, you know, I still I still like it. I still do it, but just not as much as I used to.
00:51:02:00 – 00:51:25:55
Agent Palmer
I, I think that’s true of all of us. Like, I, I’m a blogger now, like I can I have no problem saying that. Like, I’m, a feature writing blogger, basically thinking, I’ve written a few short stories over the past decade, and I mean a few, probably a couple. A few might be much a it probably a couple, right?
00:51:25:55 – 00:51:51:00
Agent Palmer
And I’ve got friends that remember younger me when I would write poetry and short stories, like all the time. And they’re like, when you do that again, like, I don’t know, like it’s not, it’s not that I don’t have it. Like clearly it’s somewhere in there, but I’m getting enough out when I’m writing what I’m writing and I don’t because I get it all the time.
00:51:51:00 – 00:52:10:05
Agent Palmer
And it’s the it’s a misconception among bloggers. I guess, because I’ve talked to other bloggers, it’s like, well, when are you going to write your book? No, like, I’m not I’m not writing a blog to to as a stepping stone for a book. Like that’s Not it. The blogs over ten years. I would have written the book by now if that was the case.
00:52:10:05 – 00:52:32:07
Agent Palmer
Like, that’s crazy. But like, do you have I mean, I’m going to be that guy and ask you, like, are you are you going to write a book? Is there are there other things for you? You know, within and I’m not asking for a title and a synopsis, but just is it like a goal? You know, like I’m going to write a book one day.
00:52:32:07 – 00:52:34:03
Agent Palmer
Maybe.
00:52:34:08 – 00:53:14:39
Kelly Fiorini
It’s funny, I, you know, like, if you would ask me that question maybe three years ago, I would have said, no, no, no, no desire to write a book. But I honestly, that answer would have been rooted more in the thought that I would write a book than not. Like really desiring to write a book. Yeah, I yeah, I basically like I think I’ve really grown over the last year in the sense of like my confidence of what I can and you know, what I can do, what I can accomplish.
00:53:14:39 – 00:53:32:58
Kelly Fiorini
And so, you know, like, I think I could write a book, right? You just break it down into smaller pieces and, you know, you chunk it and I, you know, here I could I could do that. I’m not going to rule it out. I don’t know what it would be about. But it might be fun to try one day.
00:53:33:03 – 00:53:45:55
Kelly Fiorini
Not in the near future. Maybe, like five year.
00:53:46:00 – 00:54:14:12
Agent Palmer
First, I want to acknowledge how unique Kelly story is. Most people are more like me, experiencing career complacency once they get something long term. I applaud Kelly not just for thinking about and doing something about what else could be out there, but for her attitude and her try before you buy approach to a career. She spent a decade teaching and only did so after tutoring, and now she’s writing after basically moonlighting at it first.
00:54:14:17 – 00:54:36:55
Agent Palmer
That’s an important lesson for all of us who have ever thought, is there something else out there for me? And let’s be honest, everyone has had that thought. In tough times it may be prevalent, but in good times it may still hover around the periphery of your thoughts. Still, we’ve all been there at one point or another, and perhaps just trying something temporary is the way to go.
00:54:37:00 – 00:55:00:49
Agent Palmer
But the similarities of Kelly’s story to episode 58 guest Rob Iskra are something I can’t escape. I feel like teachers are similar to lawyers, where you get to a point and it’s either you move on, you move up or you move out. Maybe I want to remain a bit optimistic about some things, but I would be willing to bet that most professions have a Google search, which is alternative careers for a profession.
00:55:00:53 – 00:55:26:33
Agent Palmer
You’ve heard countless career trajectory changes on not only the episodes I mentioned in this episode, but in many of the conversations I’ve had careers are very rarely entirely linear. Sure, they go from one thing to the next, but it’s very rarely ever a constant line in the same direction. And perhaps that’s just a reflection of the fact that life is rarely ever a constant, singular direction.
00:55:26:38 – 00:55:49:14
Agent Palmer
That may be too much philosophy for right now, but just remember this no matter where you are or what you do, there’s almost always something else out there for you. If you want it. And perhaps you should think about trying what could be next in order to figure out just what that is. Good luck. And remember, just because something doesn’t work out, it just means that’s one singular thing.
00:55:49:14 – 00:56:07:38
Agent Palmer
You know all the opportunities and options that you can cross off on to the next one. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 81. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion.
00:56:07:51 – 00:56:33:53
Agent Palmer
You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest, Kelly Fiorini at Kelly F copy. That’s Kelly f copy and this show at The Palmer Files. You can find more information about Kelly at Kelly fiorini.com. That’s Kelly Fiorini, where you can not only contact her and see what she’s done, but you can read and follow her blog. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com.
00:56:33:53 – 00:56:43:44
Agent Palmer
And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:56:43:48 – 00:57:19:43
Agent Palmer
You.
00:57:19:48 – 00:57:25:59
Agent Palmer
See.
00:57:26:04 – 00:57:28:37
Agent Palmer
All right. Kelly, do you have one final question for me?
00:57:28:42 – 00:57:43:45
Kelly Fiorini
I do, so one thing I’ve been kind of wondering. Talking to you is where do you see yourself headed? So say, five years from now. What? What are you going to be doing?
00:57:43:50 – 00:58:20:21
Agent Palmer
I mean, I, I don’t know what I’m going to be doing tomorrow. You know, so, you know, I, I’ve been, I guess, self-employed for the better part of just before the pandemic, and I bounced from gig here to gig there and spent a lot of time networking and I’ve. I’ve said this before, people, when they’re trying to help you, when you’re networking will say, what do you want to do?
00:58:20:26 – 00:58:37:58
Agent Palmer
Because they need some direction. They can’t help you. They can’t. Like if you want to be a doctor, they can point you in a direction. You want to be a teacher, they can point you in a direction. You want to be, a marketer, a writer, a director, whatever. They can point you in a direction. The worst thing you can say to somebody who wants to help you is, I don’t know.
00:58:38:03 – 00:59:10:33
Agent Palmer
And that’s still my answer, because I think that, I am blessed and cursed with too many options. And so in five years, I would like to make sure I’m still paying my bills and contributing to the household my partner makes more than me, but she’s got a full time job. I do not, and so I just want to be able to contribute in some way.
00:59:10:38 – 00:59:45:03
Agent Palmer
Financially as far as like emotionally or like metaphysically or whatever. Like I get to create, as far back as I can remember, I’ve always wanted to create and I can’t not, call it a fault, call it a, a plus, a minus, whatever. Like, if I’m not, I like the the blog has kind of manifested itself as I’m creating something once a week or, you know, sometimes twice a week.
00:59:45:08 – 01:00:14:54
Agent Palmer
The podcast has kind of amped that up. So now, you know, it’s six times a month. I’m putting something out into the internet. And it’s come up on the show before. I’m a very big believer in trying to balance the ledger of content created versus content consumed. And I know it’s never going to be 5050. As humans, we consume too much to be able to literally put out that much stuff.
01:00:14:59 – 01:00:43:47
Agent Palmer
I, I, I had insomnia last night, so I consumed, I don’t know, five hours of TV while my partner was sleeping and just watching stuff, so clearly I can’t. And today I wrote a blog post. I don’t know what that equates to in hours of of like consuming. And I, you and I are doing this podcast, which is going to record for about an hour and a half, and I’ll edit it down to 115 or 109 or whatever it ends up being.
01:00:43:52 – 01:01:21:26
Agent Palmer
I’m not hitting 5050, right. I strive to it’s never going to happen. So, but I still need that outlet. And I have, I’m I, I’m a strike while the iron is hot kind of guy. I, you know this four days ago, I wrote two posts because I was inspired and I had either watched the right things or read the right things, or I had an idea of a thing I wanted to write and but just knowing that, my skill sets open all these doors for me.
01:01:21:31 – 01:01:46:56
Agent Palmer
Is is as exciting as it is scary because I have to pick a door. Right. And and so, I, I, I helped produce a movie. It’s as we speak. It’s in production. By the time this airs, it’ll be close to the end of our production. And I mixed the sound on it only because I’ve been messing around with podcasts.
01:01:46:56 – 01:02:13:54
Agent Palmer
Sound. Right? Like these are skills. I have didn’t know that they were applicable. There, but now I know that I could produce a small budget movie, and I know that I can produce a podcast and edit a podcast and a blog. And I’ve edited a book of poetry, and I’ve edited a short story, and I’ve edited a novel that I’m going to beat the author over the head until we actually publish said novel.
01:02:13:59 – 01:02:32:54
Agent Palmer
But but these are but all of those things are vastly different. And yet they still they still all fill my soul. Like my creative soul. Like I don’t have to do it. Like that’s the other thing I learned. Like, I don’t have to do the thing. I can just be a part. I can be a facilitator. And that’s good enough for me.
01:02:33:05 – 01:02:58:26
Agent Palmer
Like, I’m helping with this movie. I’m a producer, but I didn’t. I’m not editing it. I didn’t shoot it. I’m just there to facilitate it into the world. And that’s fulfilling enough for me. But it also means that people don’t know what I do because all of the things that come to my mind when what what do you do?
01:02:58:26 – 01:03:14:21
Agent Palmer
Not what do you want to be? That’s the harder question. What do you do? I just get to be vague like I’m a blogger because then they go, well, what do you write about? Or how often or whatever? Like I’m a podcaster, but who do you talk to? And if I say I’m a producer, they go, well, what do you like?
01:03:14:32 – 01:03:43:47
Agent Palmer
No one knows what those like producer, blogger, a podcaster, even editor. These things are vague concepts to most people. If you’re not doing them, you have no idea what I just said. I just said four words. And so I have all these options. I would like to help people, generally speaking. I’ve done a lot more for people than I have for money.
01:03:43:47 – 01:04:08:37
Agent Palmer
I’m not like a bottom dollar kind of guy. Like, I mean, I, I think, I think those around me know my worth a lot more than I do. And it could be an introvert thing. I don’t know, because I just it’s not a thing that happens like, I, I help people when I can and that’s good enough. And maybe my privilege is showing because, like, I had saved for a very long time while I was employed.
01:04:08:37 – 01:04:33:47
Agent Palmer
And so I can weather these kind of storms and carve out a life for me. But in five years, I guess as long as I’m helping people or I’m still doing this stuff, it would be cool to maybe find the next bigger thing, which is new, right? The movie I had a friend who was doing it all by himself, and I was like, I think I can help you.
01:04:33:51 – 01:04:53:49
Agent Palmer
He’s like, I don’t think you can. And I was like, no, I really think I can help you here. And so, you know, and that will probably be an episode on this show to come when we release it and I, we get to tell the story about how I helped him. But I think now I’m looking for the next, the next step up.
01:04:54:02 – 01:05:16:03
Agent Palmer
Let’s say. And I don’t know what that is. And I didn’t the blog just kind of came to me one day. The podcast I had been teased about for a long time, because I was being on other people’s shows and I was producing other people’s shows. I wasn’t doing my own. And then I finally took that step. And the movie, that was just kind of happenstance.
01:05:16:03 – 01:05:39:19
Agent Palmer
It’s like be in the right place at the right time and saying, no, I’m no, I’m to you can do whatever you want. I’m going to help you anyway. And, and, you know, my, my best friend’s the writer of poetry, and I’m always going to be available for him as an editor. And I think that I just kind of I’m here for the creative space and, yeah, not a lot of money in it.
01:05:39:19 – 01:05:57:45
Agent Palmer
Right? Like you got to be in the 1% of the 1% of the 1% to make a living doing all of the things I just described. But as long as there’s a roof over my head, and I get to eat and there’s plenty of coffee around, I’m good. Like, I think I’ve set my, I don’t know.
01:05:57:45 – 01:06:16:51
Agent Palmer
I’m not looking forward to, like, oh, one day I’ll release my own movie studio or whatever. Like, no, I don’t. I don’t think that big. But that’s so I guess, I’m going to put up my sail and wherever my boat goes.
01:06:16:55 – 01:06:17:33
Kelly Fiorini
I love that.
01:06:17:35 – 01:06:21:31
Agent Palmer
I hope I’ll be prepared for it.
01:06:21:36 – 01:06:31:44
Kelly Fiorini
Yeah, I, I love that because I 100%, hundred percent relate. You know, it’s just creating and helping people.
01:06:31:49 – 01:07:01:46
Agent Palmer
And I will say this, having been in marketing and around marketing, and, and the pandemic taught me a lot from afar because I wasn’t employed. So I got to watch people get overworked and I got to watch, you know, budgets and staff get cut, and I, I got to learn the value of storytelling in a way that I still don’t think people value yet the way they should.
01:07:01:51 – 01:07:41:21
Agent Palmer
And it’s, you know, people look at marketing as it’s just the message, but not anymore. We live in a world where any YouTuber may have any random YouTuber that you know, does it for full time, might have more followers than the brand of soft drink you’re drinking, potentially. And so what does that mean? You know, they tell better stories than the brand, probably, you know, and so for me, I’m starting to think it’s all about storytelling.
01:07:41:34 – 01:08:05:47
Agent Palmer
It’s also about posturing a little bit, but I just I don’t want to play the it’s a, it’s a statement I make a lot. I don’t want to play the game like, do you want to hire me? Oh, you want me to jump through hoops? No, no I’m not. That’s that’s somebody else. That’s somebody younger. That’s somebody who really wants a career.
01:08:05:59 – 01:08:26:09
Agent Palmer
I just want to help you tell your story. You don’t want that. That’s fine. Good. Have fun. Like I’ll, I’ll find a way. It’s good. But I just I think back and I think that and you will find this the more that you kind of get out there not as a salesperson but just looking around at what everybody else is doing.
01:08:26:09 – 01:08:30:43
Agent Palmer
And you go, oh, wow, they need my help. But they’re not they don’t know that.
01:08:30:48 – 01:08:31:19
Kelly Fiorini
Right?
01:08:31:19 – 01:08:55:20
Agent Palmer
And most of those people are too proud to say they’re wrong. And it’s a whole different ballgame. But it’s just, you know, I guess I’m just I’m just here to help people. Well, I guess that’s, that’s an imperative. I don’t want to make a I don’t want to make it a question, but very much it’s, I don’t know, question mark.
01:08:55:24 – 01:09:11:27
Kelly Fiorini
I think it’s okay to not know. You know, that’s where that’s where that’s. You can be spot. I’ve been in my whole life and I think is not really knowing. And it’s up for change whenever it comes.
01:09:11:32 – 01:09:15:59
Agent Palmer
I mean, that’s that’s how you end up with a liberal arts degree.
01:09:16:03 – 01:09:16:43
Kelly Fiorini
Search you.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).