Episode 36 features author Sally Handlon, who wrote “Your Journey to Aging Well: Drink, Move, Eat Sleep,” which we discuss the inspirations for and aspirations of during the episode, plus maybe through the example of Agent Palmer, you’ll find something easy to do to improve the quality of your life.
During the episode we cover:
- Writing a book
- Staring Handlon Business Resources
- Interest in herbal medicine
- Reading the label
- Starting early
- Drink more water
- Lack of Sleep
- Growing Old
- “Organic”
- The more things change…
- The road not taken
- Deep breathing
- And much more…
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Purchase Your Journey to Aging Well: Drink, Move, Eat, Sleep by Sally Handlon on Amazon.
“Your Journey to Aging Well” with help from the friendly Sally Handlon
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:22:39
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. A look into the positive of a negative. A health and wellness book that reads like a conversation with a friend. And among the many notes of things to read from talking to Amy. I have ordered Pete Conrad’s book, Rocket Man. This is The Palmer Files, episode 36 with author Sally Handlon, whose book, Your Journey to Aging Well drink, move, eat, sleep.
00:00:22:41 – 00:00:44:33
Agent Palmer
I just reviewed in which we talk about the origins of and aspirations for. Plus, maybe through the example of me. You’ll find something easy to do to improve the quality of your life. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:44:38 – 00:01:08:15
Agent Palmer
00:01:08:19 – 00:01:35:56
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 36th episode is Sally Handlon, whose book Your Journey to Aging Well. Drink, move, eat, sleep. I recently reviewed, and we will talk about that during our conversation. I invited Sally on not just to talk about her book, but because her book led me to many thoughts and I wanted to get to know about the thoughts, inspirations and aspirations of the author behind the book.
00:01:36:01 – 00:02:01:17
Agent Palmer
Sally has successfully run handling business resources, and we talk about what being an author means, how running a business that helps businesses has helped along the way. And of course, we talk about health and wellness. We do generally discuss certain topics, and I use myself as an example when it comes to certain specific things. But take from it not that everything works for everyone.
00:02:01:22 – 00:02:23:08
Agent Palmer
There is no universal panacea, but at least personally speaking, I can always make attempts to do better. Before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, the show at the Palmer Files. And since Sally’s not on Twitter, I’ll be happy to pass anything along.
00:02:23:13 – 00:02:44:52
Agent Palmer
You can visit her website, Body construction dot me for additional resources to her book and health and wellness blog posts. Plus, don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings, including my review of Sally’s book, Your Journey to Aging Well on Agent palmer.com. And of course, email can be sent to the show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com.
00:02:44:57 – 00:02:56:12
Agent Palmer
So without further ado, let’s attempt to better ourselves.
00:02:56:17 – 00:03:07:04
Agent Palmer
Sally, I wanted to ask you, your interest in health and wellness, but was writing a book always an interest as well?
00:03:07:09 – 00:03:18:51
Sally Handlon
Writing the book came from when I took my herbal class in 2000, six, when I started, learning more and wanting to share.
00:03:18:56 – 00:03:33:47
Agent Palmer
Okay. And you and I know each other, you know, beyond this. Right? But. And you’ve talked to me about it. Have you talked to others? Have you used any of those informal conversations as feedback that fueled the book?
00:03:33:51 – 00:04:02:02
Sally Handlon
Well, most of my conversations about the book, which occurred probably when I was taking the I am course, the integrative nutrition course that brought it back to life again. And that was the main intention when I took that nutrition course. And so I did speak to others about it, because the more you verbalize your intentions, the more they become reality.
00:04:02:11 – 00:04:15:21
Agent Palmer
If I, if I go back to younger Sally. Yes. Is writing a book even something remotely in your like, bucket? But, I want to say bucket list. It’s not, I don’t know to do list, I guess.
00:04:15:26 – 00:04:17:26
Sally Handlon
No, it was not.
00:04:17:26 – 00:04:36:50
Agent Palmer
And and now that you have done, done it and I understand it, you know, you published in In a Year of Chaos. But I like to ask authors new and experienced, did you get a chance to celebrate? Hey, I did this book.
00:04:36:55 – 00:04:45:38
Sally Handlon
Not in the way I would like to. I would have liked to have had sort of a celebration party with friends. But no, I did not.
00:04:45:38 – 00:04:48:42
Agent Palmer
So that will be postponed. That will be coming home to.
00:04:48:42 – 00:04:49:00
Sally Handlon
Yes.
00:04:49:03 – 00:05:01:37
Agent Palmer
Okay. But I mean, what’s the experience of I mean, because this is still, again, new to me, like you get a box of books at your house and you open it and it’s got your name on it.
00:05:01:42 – 00:05:15:26
Sally Handlon
Yeah, it was pretty exciting. It was pretty exciting to see. And, as I reread the book a number of times, it was like, who wrote this?
00:05:15:31 – 00:05:47:25
Agent Palmer
So I, I, I understand that because, with the blog, I’m ahead of schedule, commonly and I wrote a book review that was then, you know, by the time I get to share these things because they’re published, I’ve forgotten a good chunk of what, like, okay, I wrote about this book, right? And the author quoted something when she tweeted out my book review and I was like, this is exciting.
00:05:47:30 – 00:06:04:53
Agent Palmer
And then I read the quote and I went, who? I who wrote that? That’s great. And then I found it in my own text and I was like, I wrote that. Like, that’s that’s really good. Have you like, have you always been a writer?
00:06:04:58 – 00:06:21:42
Sally Handlon
No, I think probably I’ve become more of a writer since I started my, handling business resources because of having to do business plans and doing the research and coming up with a narrative and all of the background information for people wanting to go into business.
00:06:21:47 – 00:06:31:53
Agent Palmer
So the research portion of this book was not hard. I mean, if you’re doing business plans for people, the, the, the research part is probably the fun part of this.
00:06:31:58 – 00:06:36:24
Sally Handlon
Absolutely. You learned so much about different businesses and industry.
00:06:36:29 – 00:06:50:17
Agent Palmer
And did any of that help inform? I mean, because this book feels like I mean, you write it’s the culmination of an interest in health and and wellness, but it feels like the culmination of much more than that.
00:06:50:22 – 00:07:22:35
Sally Handlon
Well, I mean, the research, allowed me to revisit my herbal training, which my training ended in 2009. And so I really hadn’t, because that’s when my business was gaining momentum. So I really had not revisited that. And so that was that was pretty exciting. And then to read some of my thoughts that I had when I took that course, like, I really need to write a book to share this.
00:07:22:37 – 00:07:27:16
Sally Handlon
It was like, wow, that seed was planted, you know, ten, 12 years ago.
00:07:27:21 – 00:07:53:11
Agent Palmer
Is there like, first of all, where did the interest in herbal come from? Because I understand and you kind of talk about it in the, in the intro of your book, like, you know, you, you had these kind of, you were in Parks and Rec, you were in, you know, physical education like, but but herbal is not necessarily in this now.
00:07:53:11 – 00:08:02:42
Agent Palmer
It’s in the same boat kind of. But it wasn’t always so, like, what brings you to that side? I guess it’s like the other side of the coin.
00:08:02:47 – 00:08:32:35
Sally Handlon
Yeah. I think, what brought me there initially was, going to a chiropractor that sort of opened my eyes to, you know, manipulation to, to tonics, to, alternative practices versus the medical, the Western medicine. And that was probably back in the late 70s. And so from there, that was sort of the, the, the, the seed that was planted.
00:08:32:40 – 00:08:55:23
Sally Handlon
And then I just sort of followed it on my own until I decided to either give it up or get serious about it. And I decided to get serious about it. And that was at a time when my, my parents were in there for of last years, and my mother in particular, was subject to a whole lot of medications.
00:08:55:28 – 00:09:05:22
Sally Handlon
And, I just saw the, the havoc it played with her life. And I decided then and there I need to know more because I’m not living like this.
00:09:05:27 – 00:09:25:30
Agent Palmer
So I’m not a medical Luddite. I guess I want to make that statement clear first, but like, I’m not a I’m not a pill popper. I’m very much I don’t I don’t know what I am, actually, but I just know I, I, I, I haven’t been to a doctor and probably too long. I mean that, that, that I know is overdue.
00:09:25:30 – 00:09:41:26
Agent Palmer
But I’m also not like, I have a cold, take some cold medicine. I’m still. You and I, it’s it’s not inherently Jewish, I will say, but, like, I’m still a I have a cold. All right. Chicken, chicken.
00:09:41:28 – 00:09:41:43
Sally Handlon
Soup.
00:09:41:57 – 00:10:03:03
Agent Palmer
Forever. You know. It’s all right. Time for chicken soup and and and maybe, extra fluids and rest, and that’s that’s it. I don’t I don’t reach for the NyQuil. I don’t reach for the DayQuil. I think that’s what I do. And it’s kind of like the way I’ve always done it. And look, my parents didn’t like that.
00:10:03:03 – 00:10:42:35
Agent Palmer
I don’t get that from my parents. That’s not I just I don’t know and I don’t know how I went down this path. So that’s kind of where I’m at. And then I read your book and I’m like, well, I, I’ve heard of the dangers of sugar, like just white sugar for, for a while. And people talk about it as far as like, well I’m, I’m, I’m anti sugar or you know, the, the whole and I just your suggestion of like honey or maple sirup in my coffee and now I’m like well I’m going to probably have to get maple sirup because I did that once.
00:10:42:44 – 00:11:09:22
Agent Palmer
Some Canadians introduced me to that and I was like, that’s okay, okay. But like that’s where I but but I don’t pay attention to anything else. Like if, if one of the takeaways as far as your eat section, I don’t pay attention to what I eat, I cook a lot more than I used to so I know what’s going in, but I don’t I, I just, I don’t, I there’s a balance there I guess like or an ignorance.
00:11:09:22 – 00:11:11:23
Agent Palmer
I’m not sure which it is.
00:11:11:28 – 00:11:14:45
Sally Handlon
You’re young.
00:11:14:50 – 00:11:25:54
Sally Handlon
These things generally don’t hit us till our 50s, where we’ve already had sort of a cumulative effect of some of our choices.
00:11:25:59 – 00:11:28:03
Agent Palmer
All right. So if I get a jump on now.
00:11:28:08 – 00:11:29:06
Sally Handlon
You will be better off.
00:11:29:07 – 00:12:04:53
Agent Palmer
Okay. I mean, because I, I’m not I’m a fair weather runner. So if it so it’s winter I’m not going to run. That’s just I’m just I’m a baby. I’ve, I like I remember high school like championships in cross-country where it was like we’re going to be, tougher than the other team and we’re going to wear our little singlets and shorts, and it’s sleeting sideways and 30 degrees, and we’re just going to go out there and run, and I, I’m, I’m glad I can have that little story.
00:12:04:53 – 00:12:18:40
Agent Palmer
And there’s a little more to it, but I’m glad I have that experience. I don’t want to do that again. Yeah. That’s so when it’s 70 and nice, I’ll go for a run. That’s. Yeah. But you know, that’s that’s where it ends for me.
00:12:18:45 – 00:12:32:53
Sally Handlon
That’s all right. You know you do you do what you, you like and what you want to do and you know, running may become more part of your life as you get older or may become less, depending upon how your knees hold up.
00:12:32:58 – 00:13:00:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know, I know a couple friends that went from running to cycling just solely on their joints. But I the what your book seems is it seems simple and I feel like that’s one of the reasons that it was, it spoke to me I, you’re not telling me to change my life but your, your informing me that.
00:13:00:32 – 00:13:14:43
Agent Palmer
Well I’ll say I, I do know I don’t drink enough like bar none, I, I think I don’t drink enough and I want to ask, do you think most people don’t. It’s my guess. Is that. Is that a safe assumption?
00:13:14:48 – 00:13:23:08
Sally Handlon
Yeah. We’re we’re in the research that I did, especially in the US where we’re, considered to be somewhat dehydrated.
00:13:23:13 – 00:13:35:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I, I if I’m not sick, I think that’s probably like I’ll be I’ll be honest, I just went through the chicken soup thing when I’m sick, I’m the most hydrated I, I’m ever I ever am.
00:13:35:56 – 00:13:38:32
Sally Handlon
That’s good. Your body needs that. That’s what it’s telling you to do.
00:13:38:34 – 00:13:43:38
Agent Palmer
But I should be probably doing it a little bit better when I’m actually feeling fine.
00:13:43:45 – 00:14:04:46
Sally Handlon
You should. And especially when you’re running, you should, And in heat and in cold. If you go out in the cold, you know, your body tends to dehydrate because it pulls everything. And, for your immune system, things need to flow, and water helps to maintain that flow.
00:14:04:51 – 00:14:17:37
Agent Palmer
Is there? Look the this the scary takeaway from all your research was that sleep deprivation or lack of sleep is a pandemic.
00:14:17:42 – 00:14:26:39
Sally Handlon
That’s what the World Health Organization had said, that we seem to thrive on getting less sleep and thinking we’re accomplishing more.
00:14:26:43 – 00:14:51:32
Agent Palmer
I, I I’m speechless now when you say that as when I read it because I was just like, it’s such a, and this is definitely a West Western philosophy, right? But like, it’s such a badge of honor, like, well, I only need four hours to sleep. I only need, and any number less than eight. Right. But usually less than six.
00:14:51:32 – 00:15:09:09
Agent Palmer
That’s the badge of honor. Like, I, I, you know, I only regularly and I just, I’m, I’m not that old. Like, I haven’t hit the 50 mark where, you know, it all kicks in and you’re like, oh, like, okay, let me look at that the first half and like, how do I want the second half to be?
00:15:09:13 – 00:15:29:19
Agent Palmer
But I do know that I try and maintain a regular sleep schedule. It may not be that I don’t know what my data is. I mean, I have a Fitbit, I’m sure, and and it’s on and I’m sure it tracks my sleep and I don’t look at those numbers, but I just try and go to bed at the same time.
00:15:29:24 – 00:16:00:11
Agent Palmer
And wake up at the same time. And I’m always in awe of my like my grandparents generation, my great grandparents generation that were like I always I never I woke up without an alarm and for my entire life I’ve needed an alarm if I need to get somewhere in the morning. And part of that is that only in the last year or two, I’ve started to go to sleep on a regular at a regular time, which means I’m kind of getting up at a regular time.
00:16:00:16 – 00:16:15:51
Agent Palmer
But that there’s a balance there that I, I find hard to maintain. It’s easier for me to run three days a week in the summer than it is for me to go to bed at 11 every night.
00:16:15:56 – 00:16:41:04
Sally Handlon
Well, and, and part of that is with what you do. I mean, you’re very much on the computer and working on your blogs and working on you know, your podcasts. And a lot of that stuff tends to, be, I don’t know, be more easily, done or more easily worked in the later hours of the day when there’s not so much competition for your time.
00:16:41:08 – 00:16:43:01
Agent Palmer
Okay. That’s. Yeah.
00:16:43:05 – 00:17:10:26
Sally Handlon
All right. So so that’s probably pretty normal. But when you think about, I mean, having a regular time to, to go to sleep and to get up, that’s what your grandparents and great grandparents have, because they didn’t have the electronic devices that regulated their evening hours. You know, when it got dark, it got dark. You know, it’s time to go to bed, put the fire out and go to bed.
00:17:10:31 – 00:17:22:47
Sally Handlon
We have we have all this artificial stuff that, makes us think. And sometimes, depending upon the the light, that’s a bit. It makes our bodies think that it’s daylight.
00:17:22:52 – 00:17:45:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, I did make a conscious effort around the same time that I started having a regular, bedtime, to, like, read before bed physical books. I mean, yeah, there’s still light in the room, but not I’m not looking at an electronic screen. Right. Just physical books, reading and and that I don’t know if it’s helped.
00:17:45:56 – 00:17:48:04
Agent Palmer
I know it hasn’t hurt.
00:17:48:09 – 00:18:08:39
Sally Handlon
And, you know, in, in, say, about the amount of time that, you know, one needs to sleep. You know, they the average suggested is eight hours. And it really depends upon your age. If you’re really young, like infants and toddlers, they need, you know, 12 to 16. If you’re, you know, a teenager, you’re going to need more than you’re going to need as you’re an adult.
00:18:08:52 – 00:18:46:45
Sally Handlon
But when you think about what the body goes through during that relaxed period where you’re consciously relaxed, but your subconscious is still working, you know, your body’s still doing its repair work, it’s cleaning. Your brain is sifting out what it needs to keep and hold on to versus what it can just let go. I mean, think about, you know, how you have to, you know, look at changing and updating your computer and getting your, you know, computer scrubbed of all of the internet access, addresses that you have in it.
00:18:46:45 – 00:19:07:10
Sally Handlon
And, you know, our, you know, our bodies go into that mode to reboot and rebuild, regenerate every night when we go to sleep and you short that process, you’re it. You may not feel it right away, but eventually it’s going to impact your health.
00:19:07:15 – 00:19:44:46
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I, I mean, I, I, I’ve been I’ve been listening to podcasters who are older than me say that as they get older, they are they find themselves sleeping less, not going to bed later, just sleep. They’re waking up earlier and early. And, the joke there has always been, well, your time is getting closer, so you should be awake more and do more things, but I but I wonder if it’s if it’s also because the body is started to, quote unquote, find its own.
00:19:44:46 – 00:20:08:07
Agent Palmer
Like, oh, I know how to do this better. I you’re, you’re not doing crazy things. Your, as well process. Yeah. Maybe like, like, like maybe. Yeah. I don’t all like, all I know is sleep is important and I, I am not paying attention like I. Let me ask you this. Is there a is there a, a paralysis by analysis when it comes to this stuff?
00:20:08:07 – 00:20:26:48
Agent Palmer
Because like, I, I know because I wear a Fitbit that I have my sleep data, but I don’t know if like I want to look at it too. I don’t, I don’t know, like because it’s going to, you know.
00:20:26:52 – 00:20:31:19
Sally Handlon
Why not? It’s not going to change anything for you to know what it is.
00:20:31:24 – 00:20:45:44
Agent Palmer
That’s okay. That’s fair. I, I mean, last night I slept all right, but I, I guess, I guess I don’t want to, I don’t know, I actually, I’m just kind of like.
00:20:45:49 – 00:20:46:59
Sally Handlon
You don’t want to jinx yourself.
00:20:47:01 – 00:21:16:29
Agent Palmer
I don’t I don’t know what it goes to the food. Right. Like, I just, I eat what I eat, I use the ingredients I use, like, I, I don’t, I don’t read packages. I’m not I’m not afraid of certain packages either. Like, I know that, I use some low sodium things that I know a lot of people are like, well, if it doesn’t have salt and I’m like, as long as it tastes good, I don’t, care so much.
00:21:16:29 – 00:21:34:39
Agent Palmer
I, I, I don’t know, there’s a balance to everything. And I find myself at a, like a lack of not interest, but, there’s only so much attention I can give to so many things. Yeah.
00:21:34:44 – 00:22:10:55
Sally Handlon
Yeah. And and that’s why, this book was designed to just provide basic information and provide it in a sort of non-threatening, but just sort of, make you aware of, things because we have been so inundated by, marketing messages and pharmaceutical messages and all sorts of things that we’ve sort of lost, I’m going to say we’ve lost our connection with the ancient wisdom.
00:22:10:59 – 00:22:33:39
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I could see that because I feel like more people are going to be able to quote whatever, I don’t know, anti-anxiety or ed pill add before they’ll be able to quote a doctor. Right. Because, because because it’s in it’s in your face. It’s on YouTube, it’s on TV, it’s on all of your things.
00:22:33:53 – 00:22:40:43
Sally Handlon
Well, people go into the doctor’s suggesting that’s what they need, you know, rather than letting the doctor do the evaluation.
00:22:40:43 – 00:23:10:56
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s that my brain doesn’t go there like I’m sure that exists, but like, my brain is like, well, I didn’t go to school, like, I can tell you, like I, I, I mean, I like to use the, the garage metaphor, like, I can walk into a, or I can take my car to a garage and say, like, this wheel is flat, but I’m not going to be like, I think it’s because there’s a slow leak, like, that’s you.
00:23:10:59 – 00:23:33:55
Agent Palmer
You are the person who’s going to fix it. You also can diagnose the problem by walking into a doctor’s office with the diagnosis already is like, I scary. It’s the reason I laughed so hard at all of the sitcoms where they’re like, WebMD is hilarious because if you go on there long enough, all of your symptoms will equal death.
00:23:34:04 – 00:23:45:05
Sally Handlon
Oh yeah, well, the minute we were born, we’re starting to die. So, you know, it’s just a matter of what quality of life do we have in between those two events?
00:23:45:09 – 00:24:14:50
Agent Palmer
I, I want to ask and I don’t, I don’t it’s not, it’s not like an age thing, but like you were, are there any, pieces of this book and, and your interest in, in, in, in herbs and, and health and wellness that stem from the 70s and. Yeah, and the 60s and like some because because when I read your book and I don’t think hippie.
00:24:14:50 – 00:24:27:25
Agent Palmer
Right. But I, but I think of the 60s because it was the last time where organic or maybe it’s the first time where organic was huge and it was important.
00:24:27:30 – 00:25:08:15
Sally Handlon
Well, organic became sort of second fiddle because manufactured foods and manufactured processes, industrial farming, that all started in the late 50s, 60s into the 70s. If you read some of, Rodale Institute’s information that, even as early as the 40s, GI Rodale realized that our soil no longer had all the nutritional value that it once had because of the industrial processes and the mono, plant.
00:25:08:19 – 00:25:39:36
Sally Handlon
Fields that there were that we just didn’t rotate, we didn’t use organic, you know, fertilizers and things like that. We used chemicals and processed it to up the production levels. But it was doing that at the expense of the quality of the nutritional value. So that was happening, you know, in the 50s, in the 60s and from my experience in the 60s now, as a teenager in the 60s, I graduated from high school and 68 went to college.
00:25:39:40 – 00:26:15:47
Sally Handlon
There was always probably from age 16 on, there was always a concern about weight, even though as an athlete, you know, you know, you didn’t want to gain weight, didn’t want to, make, you know, make yourself something that, was not attractive to the magazine look of women. And so then I hit college. I got the freshmen 40, 50 pounds because at the, you know, at the cafeterias, you could have all the whole chocolate milk you wanted.
00:26:15:47 – 00:26:47:12
Sally Handlon
You could have as many desserts as you wanted. And I love those butterscotch brownies. And of course, I was doing, like, 2 to 3 sports. A year in college, so I was always hungry. And then, you know, so then that sort of started my, roller coaster or yoyo, work with my, my body and my life, and I was constantly on some kind of diet or doing something, and, nothing lasted.
00:26:47:17 – 00:26:55:54
Sally Handlon
So, you know, part of that personal experience got blended into what I later learned in life. I.
00:26:55:59 – 00:27:27:22
Agent Palmer
I, I, I’ve been fortunate with my genetics to have a metabolism that in my mid to late 30s I don’t know where mid and late end up. Right. But but but I’m, I’m in toward my I’m, I’m closer to 40 than I am 30. And I, I’ve been lucky enough that I don’t have to pay attention. But but my father, who clearly I have his metabolism, keeps telling me one day you’re going to hit the wall.
00:27:27:27 – 00:27:54:15
Agent Palmer
And so I’m slowly like, going out to eat less, right? And I’m eating. Maybe I’m still eating some processed foods, but I’m. I’m cooking my own, more often. And a lot of that has to do with being home. I mean, we’re all home more now than ever before, but and part of it’s to do with the fact that I enjoy cooking.
00:27:54:20 – 00:28:19:07
Agent Palmer
But I’ve never been like a an a, and again. And I feel bad for you in this way. Like, I feel like it’s a gender thing, too. Yeah. If if, if, if you were a man going through that same time period, there’s a chance you don’t. Yo, yo, maybe you want to lose a little weight, but, like, you don’t yo yo from from, I’m.
00:28:19:09 – 00:28:38:45
Agent Palmer
And I’m, I’m going to take a guess here from fad diet to fad diet. Because it was and still is kind of a gender thing. Yeah. It’s but but the good news is it’s changing now or I’d like to think it’s changing now.
00:28:38:45 – 00:29:05:54
Sally Handlon
I don’t it hasn’t totally. There’s still a lot of young women who are just still striving for that. What I’m going to say when they, when they, airbrush okay. Pictures. Now we’re all striving for that airbrush look, and nobody has it. No, no. But no, you know. No, that as a, as a, you know, young teen growing up that.
00:29:05:59 – 00:29:12:53
Agent Palmer
Is there, a part of you that wishes you had taken this path sooner?
00:29:12:58 – 00:29:41:30
Sally Handlon
Yes, there is. As a matter of fact, if I had been, younger when I finally got into this, routine, I think I probably would have gone to school to be a naturopathy doctor. I really, I really am amazed and in wonder at all of the, the things that we have in this Garden of Eden on earth that can help us, that we’re just not aware of.
00:29:41:30 – 00:29:58:05
Sally Handlon
And there’s so many, opportunities that our bodies try to communicate with us that we just don’t listen. And so to be skilled in knowledge and how to help people understand them, I think probably would have been my first choice had I been aware of it.
00:29:58:10 – 00:30:20:25
Agent Palmer
I mean, obviously you don’t regret the path you’ve taken. I mean, it got you to where you are, but that’s I mean, you’re going to take what you’ve got and what you’ve learned and all your experiences and use that going forward. So this isn’t retirement necessarily because there’s still work to be. You’re not going to be sitting on a beach.
00:30:20:25 – 00:30:27:34
Agent Palmer
You’re not going to be reading books every day, but like, is this what you are going to do from here on out?
00:30:27:39 – 00:30:52:57
Sally Handlon
I think, Jason, it’s going to be a combination. I really love my business side where I’m helping businesses, you know, get financing or helping them get certified, especially women owned businesses or, just helping them by supporting them through, special projects. So I like that. But what I am not doing on that side anymore is I’m not doing any promotion.
00:30:52:57 – 00:31:16:56
Sally Handlon
I’m not, beating the bushes for clients if I get referrals. Referrals, I that’s fine, you know, and I’d rather work with the clients I already have. Or if somebody has, referred me through a past client, you know, that’s fine. But I’m trying to sort of balance those two because that is sort of they’re both stimulating, but in different ways.
00:31:17:01 – 00:31:42:02
Sally Handlon
So I continue to to also learn on the health and the alternative side. I’m taking a course right now in, understanding our body systems and immunity and what we can do, especially now with Covid 19. You know, our bodies have got to be in the best possible shape with their immunity as possible. And as we age, our bodies start to wear down.
00:31:42:17 – 00:31:50:03
Sally Handlon
And immunity is one of those areas that may not be as sharp in my 70s as it was in my 50s.
00:31:50:08 – 00:32:21:58
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I, I, I will say the, the first part of your book, which I refer to as like a quick bio 101 refresher, is, half of that stuff, I don’t remember. I’m sure it’s required for anyone with a high school education. But I just. I didn’t remember it. But you’re not, retelling or re informing me, the reader of that, just for.
00:32:22:03 – 00:32:54:35
Agent Palmer
Hey, FYI, you’re doing it in the context of actual health, which I found extremely helpful because then when you get to the the other sections, the the drink, the eat, the move, the sleep, it all relates back and I I’ve, I’ve read a few self-help and health books in the past few years. I’ve been kind of just taking any book I can read and reading it.
00:32:54:39 – 00:33:17:48
Agent Palmer
And you’re not. A lot of people take the time to explain it. It’s, hey, you should drink a lot of water because being hydrated is healthy, right? Period. Right. Like I oh, okay. Great. Like, you know, this is, you know, I again, I don’t understand why chicken soup is my go to for when I have a cold.
00:33:18:00 – 00:33:36:34
Agent Palmer
It’s just always been that way. I’m sure there maybe there’s no sign. It could completely be, like, psychosomatic. Like, this is just comfort food, but, like, you know, knowing the whys, it gives you more impact.
00:33:36:39 – 00:34:04:10
Sally Handlon
Correct. And that’s Jason. That’s what I found too. And you think with the amount of information that’s available on the internet, you know, that there would be more explanation of the whys, but I found that every everybody just had the, you know, this is what you need to do. This is what you need to do. This is the result I got, which is great for you, but not might not be great for everybody else because for all different.
00:34:04:15 – 00:34:25:45
Sally Handlon
But if people know in general, you know, the importance of the four basic systems and those, those four activities of eat, move, drink, sleep and how they interact with each other, then it’s up to them, you know what? How they want to make their choices. And if it’s important to them to make choices that are different.
00:34:25:50 – 00:34:57:07
Agent Palmer
Do you find the lack of I don’t know what the word I don’t know if the what the word is, but the concept that people are trying to give universal help when it’s individual help, that’s paramount, right? Like if you like, we’re having a general conversation, but I’m using myself because you can help me. And and then maybe the listeners can take what they take, but you’re not, you know, talking to me going, yeah, everybody drinks more.
00:34:57:07 – 00:35:22:50
Agent Palmer
It’s good for everybody on universal like I do. You find like there’s a, like a lack of that individualism, especially when, you know, the internet can it’s infinite. Like you can write the blog post that’s like, this is why it’s good for you. You don’t have to be, you know, or like results may vary. Like, I feel like that’s that’s key to all of these things like revolt.
00:35:22:50 – 00:35:37:31
Agent Palmer
Results may vary. Like, yes, of course, because we’re all individuals. But like we’re not the the mass market health and wellness sector doesn’t seem to see individuals. They go, well, we can help a large swath.
00:35:37:36 – 00:36:04:39
Sally Handlon
Yeah. And they’re taking their own experience and they’re just sort of, portraying it on the general population. And it’s, it’s made, good money. I mean, you know, health, wellness and fitness books and stuff have really, expanded, I should say it’s exploded over the past, you know, maybe ten, 15 years because we’re all trying.
00:36:04:44 – 00:36:23:21
Sally Handlon
We’re all trying to do something that’s relatively easy. And if we can find, a plan that somebody has already mapped out that worked for them, it’s easier for us to follow that then really to think about what we need to do ourselves. Okay. Sort of like the pill mentality.
00:36:23:26 – 00:36:44:08
Agent Palmer
All right. So instead of well, but I mean it’s one of the reasons I enjoyed your book because your, your book just gets me thinking. It doesn’t really I mean, you do make suggestions, but you’re not telling me to do anything, right? I mean, and and so it it’s, it’s helpful because it gets me thinking like, oh, okay.
00:36:44:11 – 00:37:22:29
Agent Palmer
Now I probably don’t drink enough and I probably should start paying attention. And my favorite part about your book is that you say, like, just do one thing, do one thing. So for me, I’m going to attempt, to get some like good natural maple sirup. And that’s what I’m going to put in my coffee. That’s that’s my one start, to try and, because I’m not really a sweets guy, actually, it, the sugar in my coffee is probably like, the most direct line of sugar to to to me.
00:37:22:34 – 00:37:44:28
Agent Palmer
And I’ve slowly but surely cut that out like I used to be. A lot of sugar. And now it’s less sugar than it was a few years ago. And then there’s a it’s not a health thing. It’s a cool thing. I don’t know, like there’s a part of me that’s like, oh, black coffee. Like just black coffee.
00:37:44:28 – 00:38:08:22
Agent Palmer
That’s that’s cool. That’s the epitome of no. Like, it’s it’s better that way. It’s no cream, no sugar, just black. Like, that’s, so there’s a, there’s a part of it that’s unrelated to health. But but reading your book, it’s like, no, this is good though, because I am just using processed sugar for this. So that’s like my one stepping stone.
00:38:08:27 – 00:38:40:13
Sally Handlon
That’s what. Hey. And that’s, you know, it just takes one and getting used to one. And then, you know, maybe the time will come where you say, okay, I want to try something different. Let’s see what else I can do. And that’s really I’m hoping that the book becomes, a guide that sticks around, you know, that is picked up and read periodically because our lives are even with the pandemic, our lives are crazy busy because we’re either trying to figure out how to do things in this restricted environment or we’re really busy or tutoring kids or whatever.
00:38:40:18 – 00:39:09:16
Sally Handlon
So I want this book to have some shelf life with pipelines, preferably on the nightstand, so that they can, oh, yeah, I remember, you know, maybe I want to try that. But getting back to your idea of sugar, just keep in mind, and I know you said you don’t look at labels, but sometimes we get our sugar from other sources than what we put in, like the sugar that’s put into some of the, manufactured and processed food.
00:39:09:21 – 00:39:25:16
Sally Handlon
You know, corn fructose sirup is the biggie. And so even though you yourself are limiting what you’re putting in there, maybe other products that you’re purchasing that may contribute to your sugar.
00:39:25:21 – 00:39:58:31
Agent Palmer
Level and I and I know that from, look, I was a huge, soda drinker, in college, and I remember specifically, I was in college in 2000 and I graduated in oh four, but in oh three or some, somewhere around 0203, Pepsi first started coming out with their throwbacks, which was, here’s our soda with real sugar.
00:39:58:36 – 00:40:31:37
Agent Palmer
We’re not doing high fructose corn sirup in this particular throwback. And it tasted different. Like literally it tasted different because high fructose corn sirup is actually like million times sweeter than regular, sugar. And I remember, we we all ran out because we were curious, like, it’s the marketing worked on us at the time, but it was also like, well, if this is real sugar, what are we drinking?
00:40:31:37 – 00:40:42:53
Agent Palmer
Like, I remember that being and not in the health class, this was just socially. It was like, well, if if this is soda with real sugar, what are we drinking in the other stuff?
00:40:42:58 – 00:40:46:33
Sally Handlon
Yeah, the chemicals, sugar.
00:40:46:38 – 00:41:09:57
Agent Palmer
So I, I know that that that is a big portion of this. I also know because, you you have heard about the, the, the no sugar diet and which again, it goes to the moderation. Like, I feel like then now you’re reading labels and you’re like, oh, there’s sugar in there, there’s high fructose corn sirup and there’s I’m out.
00:41:10:02 – 00:41:32:50
Agent Palmer
But like, I’ve, I’ve heard horror stories of like, well, now I now I have to change everything I eat because everything had some kind of processed sugar and it’s like, part of it is a time thing, like, I am involved in all these other things. I don’t have time to spend five hours in a grocery store. And and I know you.
00:41:32:59 – 00:41:55:21
Agent Palmer
I mean, you talk about this like, it gets easier, you know, you you get used to it, but. And you can do it online. But I, I feel like sugar is the current fad, whereas like I go back like five years and it was, eggs. Well, eggs are questionable every 5 to 10 years anyway, you know, good or bad.
00:41:55:21 – 00:42:24:00
Agent Palmer
And then there MSG was absolutely horrible for you. And then it was not quite as bad. And I feel like Sugar’s kind of is there. I mean, look, there’s always something right like and is, is it, is it just the big bad health, machine, so to speak, the corporate health machine. It’s like, well, we need to find a villain every so often to keep them to sell more books.
00:42:24:05 – 00:42:51:53
Sally Handlon
I think no, it’s it’s I don’t think it’s it has been done intentionally. I was talking to someone who worked for General Foods and in the cereal division, and, you know, they were just trying to make a product that tasted good and people liked it and would buy it. It wasn’t done with any, you know, underlying intent to hurt people.
00:42:51:54 – 00:43:42:01
Sally Handlon
Okay. It was more just we want something that people will like. So, you know, in today’s age, though, I would think and I would hope that our food manufacturers, our, food processors would be a little bit more in tune with, healthy lives, healthy, healthy, products, because almost all of the chronic diseases that we’re faced with today are really accumulation of lifestyle choices, whether it’s diabetes, heart disease that, you know, cancer, all those things are have their basis in, in keeping our systems to overly inflamed and, never letting us sort of de-stress.
00:43:42:06 – 00:43:49:45
Sally Handlon
You know, over time, it just wears us out. So I would hope that they become more health conscious in some of the ways they’re doing things.
00:43:49:50 – 00:43:59:35
Agent Palmer
See, and and when you talk about de-stressing, like the one the the, the largest takeaway from your book was, I have to start practicing deep breathing.
00:43:59:40 – 00:44:00:19
Sally Handlon
00:44:00:19 – 00:44:22:56
Agent Palmer
Now, I’ve heard from people that know me that like, like you should do yoga and meditation and no one’s ever given me quite the, the, the kick in the pants that your book did with, with was like, if just deep breathing alone will give you these benefits.
00:44:23:01 – 00:44:23:41
Sally Handlon
00:44:25:12 – 00:44:47:39
Agent Palmer
I, I just, I just have to treat it like reading, like, I, I turned myself into a reader over the past five years by being like, I’m going to read one chapter a day right before bed. That’s that, that that’s where it started. And, while I don’t read one chat, I don’t read 365 chapters a year, maybe more, maybe less, but I don’t read one chapter a night right before bed.
00:44:47:39 – 00:45:08:23
Agent Palmer
Sometimes I miss out, sometimes I read two, sometimes I go a couple days without it. Like it’s not 100% universal. But I made an effort to. And now I read on the regular, let’s say I went from not to regular. Maybe not daily, but regular. And I’m sure like I need to take that same approach with the deep breathing.
00:45:08:23 – 00:45:36:39
Agent Palmer
Like I just have to, just make the decision to make it a priority. And I’m I’ve turned into a, a, look, I’m a I’m a cynical person by nature, but one of the things that I’ve learned is, I’m not a guy who can start, a New Year’s resolution. I’m not a guy who can say, wait until Monday.
00:45:36:39 – 00:46:04:30
Agent Palmer
I’ll start that. If I make it a priority and it happens to be a Wednesday, then I’m starting tomorrow. Like there’s no, I’m not like a big birthday guy either. Like, there’s plenty of there’s plenty of things we have to mark the passage of time. So if I’m going to start deep breathing, like when I, when I figure out a way to make it fit and I figure out a way to, like, just I just need this amount of time, like, I’m starting that tomorrow.
00:46:04:35 – 00:46:06:52
Agent Palmer
Why wait? Like why?
00:46:06:57 – 00:46:16:04
Sally Handlon
Yeah. One thing you may want to consider is to, do your deep breathing after you finish your chapter at night.
00:46:16:09 – 00:46:21:04
Agent Palmer
Okay. Is it going to is it going to help with the sleep too? Like am I going to get an added benefit now?
00:46:21:05 – 00:46:22:07
Sally Handlon
Yes.
00:46:22:12 – 00:46:23:14
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:46:23:19 – 00:46:47:39
Sally Handlon
It’s going to sort of calm your whole system. It’s going to, you know, push out gases that are in your system that when we do shallow breathing, don’t totally get out. And, you know, all you need to do is five deep breaths. I mean, I went to a, a seminar that was done by and I’m going to forget his name, but he’s well known in the natural in the, alternative field.
00:46:47:44 – 00:47:03:30
Sally Handlon
And he just suggested that you deep breathe by counting to five. So you breathe in to five, you hold to the count of seven and then exhale to the count of ten. Okay.
00:47:03:30 – 00:47:05:11
Agent Palmer
So just seven. Ten. Okay.
00:47:05:11 – 00:47:11:59
Sally Handlon
Yeah. Five, seven, ten. Just do that five times and it’s going to help your body start to relax.
00:47:12:04 – 00:47:15:59
Agent Palmer
I might need to start just making time to do that in the middle of the day.
00:47:16:03 – 00:47:30:28
Sally Handlon
Well and it also helps if you’re having a bad day or you’re having an angry moment or something to to do the deep breathing, you don’t have to do it five times, but just a couple times will help. Just sort of bring things back down into perspective.
00:47:30:28 – 00:47:51:56
Agent Palmer
So I immediately my brain immediately jumps back to the sleep conversation because while, while we get to, you know, we get to say that I wear this as a badge of honor, like, I only slept four hours last night. And look at all the things I’ve got. There’s also a part that’s like, I’m, I’m super stressed.
00:47:51:56 – 00:48:18:39
Agent Palmer
Look at these 15 things I did today, and it’s I there’s we we we we have now prioritized the state at which we get things done over actually getting them done. Like, yes, I was calm and I wrote four blog posts. I was super stressed and I wrote four blog posts. The super stressed one is the one I’m likely to tell people about.
00:48:18:43 – 00:48:41:56
Agent Palmer
I’m not likely to be like, oh, super calm and chill and I just wrote these. That’s I’m never going to use that. But like in certain conversations, I’m just yeah, no, I was super stressed. I wrote I but I just knocked out all for like just it’s I don’t know I there’s, there’s something about and maybe it’s because we know it’s inherently bad.
00:48:42:01 – 00:49:05:40
Sally Handlon
It’s, it’s much easier for us to share bad than it is to share good. I don’t know what that human nature is, is about maybe one of our listeners can can shed some light on that, but it’s much easier for us to share something that’s negative or bad than it is for us to say something good or say something that that worked well.
00:49:05:45 – 00:49:34:22
Agent Palmer
That’s going to that’s going to fester for a bit. I’m going to think about that one, because that I. I’m, I’m immediately thinking of the last five conversations I’ve had with friends and it’s problems at work. It’s I didn’t sleep last night. I’m not feeling well. I’m not in it. Nobody calls me in a panic to tell me that, like, so-and-so made me a cake, like I don’t.
00:49:34:26 – 00:49:53:46
Agent Palmer
You know what I mean? Like like, oh, my God, like like it’s you. You don’t, you don’t. You don’t finish a great movie and call him, but maybe you do. But for the most part, like, we really, really go out of our way to share the negative, the bad, the whatever.
00:49:53:51 – 00:50:05:09
Sally Handlon
Misery loves company. Okay. Yeah.
00:50:05:14 – 00:50:40:44
Agent Palmer
What I read in her book, and what you have just heard in our conversation is not groundbreaking, but it’s also not meant to be. Sally’s book has a unique approach to disseminate the information, but its general health and wellness information. So why then, do we still need books like Sally’s? Because someone should tell us the things we need to know, especially if we’ve forgotten that information before, and if that information is communicated in a way that allows you to think and you to connect the dots for yourself into an actionable item, then all the better.
00:50:40:49 – 00:51:05:34
Agent Palmer
It’s not ego, it’s human nature that we prefer to do things that we think of ourselves as opposed to just doing what we’re told. I’m not going to get into the psychology of it, but I do know that, as an example, my coming up with an idea, because Sally’s book made me think to come up with that idea is more likely to be something I’ll do than if Sally just told me to do something in the book.
00:51:05:45 – 00:51:37:03
Agent Palmer
That’s just the way it is. It’s why I appreciate the book and the conversation we had so much. Sally is a sounding board and a fountain of knowledge, but not a boss. Her mission is to help others live healthier lifestyles, but she’s suggesting it one manageable change at a time. So what is something you can do? Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 36.
00:51:37:07 – 00:52:00:00
Agent Palmer
And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, the show at The Palmer Files, and since Sally’s not on Twitter, I’ll be happy to pass anything along. You can visit her website, body construction dot me for additional resources to her book and health and wellness posts.
00:52:00:05 – 00:52:17:07
Agent Palmer
Plus, don’t forget you can see all of my blog posts, including my review of Sally’s book, Your Journey to Aging Well on Agent palmer.com. And of course, email can be sent to the show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com.
00:52:17:12 – 00:52:31:08
Unknown
You.
00:52:31:13 – 00:52:53:39
Unknown
See me.
00:52:53:44 – 00:52:58:43
Unknown
She.
00:52:58:48 – 00:53:02:35
Agent Palmer
All right. Sally, do you have one final question for me?
00:53:02:40 – 00:53:25:21
Sally Handlon
Well, one thing that comes to mind for me is the variety in your podcasts. You know, how how do you go about gaining that variety? When I think of a lot of podcasts and this is a new area for me, the, it seems that people have a sort of a singular focus. They want their podcast to be focused on this.
00:53:25:26 – 00:53:59:10
Agent Palmer
I didn’t I, I created the podcast to be like my blog, which was going to be my interests are wide and varied and I didn’t want to pigeonhole myself. Now I will say, I’ve done some consulting for people, you know, starting out or thinking about starting out on their own podcast. And the number one thing I say is, if you want to be, the easier way to be successful is to pick a subject, a genre, a topic of whatever.
00:53:59:15 – 00:54:27:27
Agent Palmer
If you want to, to, do, you know, if you want to do a, a show about ThunderCats and just focus and do I mean, there’s like 200 episodes of that show and then there’s a reboot and etcetera, etcetera. So if you want to just do one episode about ThunderCats every time, we’d, like, just watch an episode and talk about it, you will find an audience because that topic already has an audience.
00:54:27:32 – 00:54:56:27
Agent Palmer
Okay. I didn’t want to get bored. That’s why my blog is all over the place. It’s why, you know, I review every book I read, and if something occurs to me, I’ll write it down and I’ll put it out. And for the podcast, it was kind of the same. Like I wasn’t trying to be a success. I wasn’t trying to be an overnight hit, and I wasn’t trying to or I’m not trying shouldn’t say it wasn’t like I’m right now.
00:54:56:27 – 00:55:21:43
Agent Palmer
I’m not trying. I’m just trying to share my interests with the world because I know there are people out there that share similar interests. They may not overlap on everything like I’ve had. You’re right. I’ve had a lot of people on. If I just take the authors I’ve had on, I’ve covered biography, self-help in philosophy and self-help and wellness and fiction and science.
00:55:21:45 – 00:55:48:39
Agent Palmer
Like, I’ve had a lot of diversity. Not a lot of people enjoy all of those things I happened to, but it’ll it’ll cover enough. And then the the secondary part is that I when I was developing the idea for this show, I was always looking at Marc Maron as like, I really enjoy the way he does what he does.
00:55:48:43 – 00:56:12:06
Agent Palmer
And one of the things I noticed in talking to some of my friends was, hey, did you listen to so-and-so on Maron? No, I wasn’t interested. And what I found was listening to Maron’s catalog, whether I knew the person or not. I was learning more from the people I didn’t know. Like, yes, okay. He had on, you know, Keith Richards.
00:56:12:06 – 00:56:31:10
Agent Palmer
And that was a great conversation. But there’s no name artist who I’ve never heard of has just as great a story. I just have to be open to it. So I’m kind of taking that approach where it’s like, all right, so maybe not everybody’s going to want to listen to this episode, and that’s fine. But I want to have the conversation.
00:56:31:17 – 00:56:31:48
Agent Palmer
Oh.
00:56:31:53 – 00:56:38:56
Sally Handlon
Perfect. I, I think that’s admirable. I, you know, otherwise I wouldn’t have gotten on your show.
00:56:39:01 – 00:57:11:55
Agent Palmer
Well, and it looked there’s a lot of conversations. I think people are it’s not that they’re afraid to have, but, you know, we we we stay so in our lanes so often, that, like, a while ago, I had on the, I’ve had on some people that have made me nervous, some people that were either strangers or, you know, like, I just thought like, well, I will never say yes.
00:57:11:55 – 00:57:32:40
Agent Palmer
And they do. Right. Like and I treat it as a challenge because I don’t know what I’m going to say. I don’t know how I’m going to react. I know that I still get nervous. I know we’ve had coffee, right? Like we’ve talked, we’ve, we’ve we’ve socialized. I’ve still get nervous when I hit record. It doesn’t matter who it is.
00:57:32:40 – 00:58:04:31
Agent Palmer
I’m always nervous. And I like that feeling. Because it shows. It keeps me on my toes. It reminds me of, cross country and track, like, the, you know, the the thrill of competition. There’s still some nerves there. There’s always some nerves there. Like, right before the gun goes off, like you try and keep an empty head, but, you know, I fell once in track, starting an 800 meter race, and for the rest of my career went.
00:58:04:38 – 00:58:35:02
Agent Palmer
Don’t fall, don’t fall, don’t fall, don’t fall. Like that’s what was just in my head. So if I wasn’t nervous before that and I was, I’m still nervous when I go to the starting line. And, when I hit record, that’s the starting line. And you, it doesn’t go away, but it makes you better. And if you just have the same conversation, if you just have the same type of guest, if you’re just interviewing, like I mean, I like to interview, but conversations are the way to go.
00:58:35:02 – 00:58:38:11
Agent Palmer
I think it’s it’s it. You get more out of it.
00:58:38:16 – 00:58:39:41
Sally Handlon
Sure. It’s more real.
00:58:39:46 – 00:59:04:41
Agent Palmer
So that’s that’s kind of where I was going now, I don’t know, I have a good audience. I don’t think I have the biggest audience, but that’s I when you’re doing it for yourself, it’s just exciting. There’s people that want to share it. You don’t need the adoration of millions. That would scare me.
00:59:04:45 – 00:59:14:30
Sally Handlon
Yeah, and that’s more of an anchor, because then you really become more panicked at whether or not you can, beat the expectations.
00:59:14:35 – 00:59:42:52
Agent Palmer
That part. Yeah. That’s possible. Although I’m, I think I learned from the blog in, like, you put it out there and some people are going to respond, some people are just going to consume and not tell you anything. And, living your life on the internet, social media, podcast, blog, YouTube, Twitch, you name the online channel and it is 100% shouting into the void.
00:59:42:56 – 01:00:03:42
Agent Palmer
You get a million people, you get to hear a few more people shout back, but you’re still shouting into that void and it’s a I get if you don’t put it out there, you won’t get anything back. So right. I think that’s kind of where I, where I start and end good.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).