For episode four of The Palmer Files, guest Margo the Brooklyn Fit Chick joins me to discuss Health and Wellness and we discover that our pasts our very similar.
From how healthy host Agent Palmer is, to restaurant chains that no longer exists where they worked; Arthur Treacher’s and Roy Rogers, these two who grew up just states apart discuss the topic at hand and get off-topic for an enjoyable discussion on health and life.
Throughout the conversation we cover:
- How healthy is Agent Palmer?
- Watch what you eat.
- Working out
- Fitness trackers
- Aging
- Getting a Peleton
- Sleep and Insomnia
- Seasonal Wellness
- Retail Job Stories
- Fast Food Job Stories
- Youthful Exuberance
- Body Acceptance
- Self-care
- And much more.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Book Vs Movie: Wonder Boys Episode
Margo’s Many Shows
Malled: My Unintentional Career in Retail by Caitlin Kelly
You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Start Transcription–
00:00:02:31 – 00:00:24:17
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. A book review of Len Dayton’s XPD, a movie review of 2014 need for speed movie and the last of the pre launched episodes of this podcast have aired. This is The Palmer Files episode four with guest Margo, also known as The Brooklyn Chick, where we talk about health and wellness, diet and exercise and things might get better dipped and fried.
00:00:24:21 – 00:00:49:11
Agent Palmer
Let’s do the show!
00:00:49:16 – 00:01:17:55
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Palmer Files. I’m still your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And this is an episode that takes a wonderful turn back through the yester years of both myself and my guest, Margo’s lives. But before we get into that, let me just say that before she was on my show, Margo and I have tweeted occasionally and share a lot of common Twitter friends turned real friends recently, Margo and one of her many podcasts was responsible for the book.
00:01:17:55 – 00:01:37:58
Agent Palmer
I’m currently reading Michael Jordan’s Wonder Boys, which she did a book versus movie episode on. What’s surprising about this is that I forgot to even look and see if there was a book. I enjoyed the movie immensely, starring, among others, Michael Douglas, Tobey Maguire, Robert Downey Jr, Katie Holmes and Frances McDormand. And well, I do have an itch to rewatch the film.
00:01:37:58 – 00:01:57:06
Agent Palmer
It’s been so long since I’ve seen it. I decided reading the book now would be a better idea than rewatching it first. So no, I haven’t listened to Margo’s episode on that book versus movie, but she’s already got me convinced she has great taste. What’s more, our conversation that you’re about to hear showed me that Margo and I have a lot more in common than I originally thought.
00:01:57:10 – 00:02:21:29
Agent Palmer
First, I asked Margo on to discuss health and wellness and see where that one. Well, she’s not unfamiliar with the discussion as one of her many podcasts is the Fit Bottom Girls podcast. And then we discussed how healthy or unhealthy I am. And well, then we talked about retail and fast food, and I found myself talking to someone who felt more like a friend I was catching up with, as opposed to a guest with whom I occasionally tweet.
00:02:21:34 – 00:02:44:51
Agent Palmer
Before we get to the show proper, you can hear Margo on her shows, her many, many shows, book versus movie, the Best Neighbors podcast, Not Fade Away, The Fit Bottom Girls, and the Talking Out Show. You can tweet her on Twitter at Brooklyn Fit Chick, That’s Brooklyn Fit and chick with c h I k. You can tweet this show at the Palmer Files.
00:02:44:51 – 00:03:07:57
Agent Palmer
Me at Agent Palmer. And of course, all of these links and those mentioned in the show will be in the show notes. So without further ado, let’s get batter dipped and fried in healthy conversation with good customer service.
00:03:08:01 – 00:03:16:15
Agent Palmer
Margo, I want to talk about health and fitness or health and wellness, but I. I don’t know what to call it.
00:03:16:20 – 00:03:40:22
Margo Donohue
You know, it’s it’s called so many things. I mean, you know, health, wellness, healthy lifestyle. There’s so many are you CrossFit? Are you keto? Are you a yoga person? Are you a vegan? There’s just so many things attached to it. And, that’s one of the things I like being the co-host for the Fit Bottom Girls podcast is because we kind of dissect all of them and everything’s okay.
00:03:40:31 – 00:03:43:45
Margo Donohue
Just find your jam and stick with it.
00:03:43:50 – 00:03:58:51
Agent Palmer
Okay, so, I mean, I, I guess I will give you my jam and then you can completely critique me. I pay very little attention to what I eat.
00:03:59:00 – 00:03:59:24
Margo Donohue
All right?
00:03:59:24 – 00:04:27:48
Agent Palmer
I’m, I have cut back on soda, but to be fair, my coffee intake has risen, to replace it. Okay. Like, and I am a fair weather runner, which means from about mid spring. I mean, we’re both in the northeast, so it’s more like late spring once the temperature gets above 72, I will run until the temperature drops below 72.
00:04:27:54 – 00:04:30:25
Agent Palmer
As long as it’s not raining.
00:04:30:30 – 00:04:34:23
Margo Donohue
Okay.
00:04:34:27 – 00:04:44:43
Agent Palmer
Depending on how much time I have, I go for about one and a half to three miles. And that is my healthy lifestyle.
00:04:44:48 – 00:04:58:05
Margo Donohue
That’s not bad. It’s a lot more than a lot of people do. I mean, I would say work on what? What do you eat? I mean are what is your your do you eat your veggies every day? Do you at least have veggies every day?
00:04:58:10 – 00:05:15:24
Agent Palmer
No, no, no, I mean, if I had a burger every day, there would be lettuce and tomato. Oh, yeah. Like, now I feel like I’m talking to my mother and she’s like, you didn’t eat your vegetables? There was totally vegetables on that part of my, But I will tell you, like I have given up red meat.
00:05:15:24 – 00:05:26:38
Agent Palmer
I don’t know if that makes a difference. Like, I’ve basically gone to, it’s chicken in turkey. Like, that’s. I want to eat more fish, and I know I should eat more vegetables, but it’s chicken and turkey.
00:05:26:38 – 00:05:37:15
Margo Donohue
You know what? I’m not a fish person either. So, I mean, I go if I have to, I’ll get tuna maybe, or scallops, but that’s about as much as I can do myself.
00:05:37:20 – 00:05:43:45
Agent Palmer
But veggies I got to do, I also I’m pretty lacking on fruits too. Like I’ll be I’ll just be honest here.
00:05:43:56 – 00:06:01:28
Margo Donohue
Well, of the two you should have more veggies than fruit because for tends to have a lot of sugar in it. But I would say, yeah, if you try to get more veggies into your diet, like if you try to get it in every meal somehow, even if it’s like, you know, having eggs, there’s some spinach leaves in there or something, it would make a big difference.
00:06:01:28 – 00:06:12:10
Margo Donohue
And learning how to eat like spiral noodles that are made of like zucchini and squash instead of pasta. It’s a, it’s a game changer.
00:06:12:15 – 00:06:36:08
Agent Palmer
Okay, so I eat the, Well, okay, so I don’t I should probably read boxes a little bit more. I do get the tri colored rotini right. And I don’t know if it’s I mean, I know it’s orange and green and some other color that’s not white. But I don’t know if they’re actually made of spinach. I’ll have to pay it off to actually.
00:06:36:08 – 00:06:56:24
Margo Donohue
Look, I’m not a huge fan of box food myself. I mean, it’s better than than Kraft Macaroni and cheese. I mean, that, but I think you can you would actually, honest to God if you I don’t know if you have a Whole Foods by you or if they sell spiral noodles where you are, but it’s, it’s, it’s getting more and more popular.
00:06:56:24 – 00:07:08:07
Margo Donohue
What I am I’m in Brooklyn and it’s a game changer. You just get so much fiber from that. And that’s going to make you fuller, and it’s going to make you feel much healthier.
00:07:08:12 – 00:07:14:41
Agent Palmer
Okay, so here’s the The Bachelor part of me that hasn’t left okay.
00:07:14:45 – 00:07:17:07
Margo Donohue
Yet.
00:07:17:12 – 00:07:40:11
Agent Palmer
My girlfriend moved in as we’re recording this almost about a year ago. I used to go to the grocery store maybe once a month, if that. Like, I would go because the grocery store was on my way back from the movie theater. So if I went to a movie, I would hit the grocery store on the way back.
00:07:40:11 – 00:07:42:26
Agent Palmer
But if I didn’t, I didn’t.
00:07:42:31 – 00:07:43:29
Margo Donohue
Oh, right.
00:07:43:34 – 00:07:51:04
Agent Palmer
And I, I still don’t. So I mean, Steph, if you’re listening, we need to get more vegetables.
00:07:51:09 – 00:08:09:49
Margo Donohue
It’s it’s it’s a it’s a habit. Honest to God. As much as you work out and working out is great. But I’ll tell you, honest to God, everything comes down to food. That’s like 90% of being healthy. And that’s hard. It’s hard because food can go bad if you don’t eat it right away and not. And veggies don’t always taste great.
00:08:09:49 – 00:08:29:03
Margo Donohue
You gotta kind of figure out spices that you like and how you cook things. I it takes practice. It’s so much easier for me anyway to go on seamless and just order food when I’m really, really hungry and I don’t feel like dealing with it. But I honest to God, I think once you get in the habit of it, you’re going to be so much happier.
00:08:29:07 – 00:08:40:20
Agent Palmer
Okay, so I mean, the follow up question of that, if if I’m not going to be lazy or if I am going to be lazy, like supplements like.
00:08:40:25 – 00:08:44:36
Margo Donohue
Okay, I’m I’m not a big supplement person. The only thing I like.
00:08:44:41 – 00:08:46:27
Agent Palmer
Or vitamins, vitamins that matter.
00:08:46:27 – 00:09:05:38
Margo Donohue
Not really. If you’re eating well, it doesn’t matter. There’s not a lot of the brands that I like very much for vitamins. They tend to have more than you need. And I think of anything I think like a probiotic is a lot more healthy or something with zinc in it. Zinc is very healthy especially we’re going to have cold and flu season coming up.
00:09:05:43 – 00:09:25:23
Margo Donohue
Having some like something with a zinc supplement in it. Okay. If you have to do something, that would be it. But honest to God, really just start trying to find ways to find more vegetables into your diet. You know, carrots with like a dressing you really like. It could be a crazy dressing, but I don’t care. But just like, how would be carrots, you know.
00:09:25:28 – 00:09:43:31
Agent Palmer
All right, I want to go back to this on a scale of 100% of being healthy. And I’m not talking about like, I’m super healthy, just general health. My, my working out is less than 50% compared to the food that I eat.
00:09:43:36 – 00:09:46:40
Margo Donohue
That’s fine.
00:09:46:45 – 00:09:53:26
Agent Palmer
That crushes me because I always thought, like, just the act of working out was going to be enough.
00:09:53:31 – 00:10:15:15
Margo Donohue
No. And especially the older you get, because you burn less calories, it it’s movement is very important. Let me just say this I don’t want movement is super, super important. And it’s important to get your heart rate up. So walking but like brisk walking is really helpful if you’re, you know, a spin class is really helpful getting on the machine.
00:10:15:15 – 00:10:34:55
Margo Donohue
But really being on the elliptical is fine, but you have to at some point really challenge yourself because people don’t really challenge themselves. So you do need to do that. But honest to God, like 20 to 30 minutes a day. It’s great. And here’s the thing. You can break it up. You work out ten minutes in the morning and like 20 minutes in the afternoon or vice versa.
00:10:35:00 – 00:10:50:08
Margo Donohue
That’s plenty. And you can make it up on the weekends too, but you kind of do a little bit of something every day. But if you work too hard or you don’t eat properly, your body’s just going to go into inflammation mode and you’re actually going to gain weight and you’re going to feel worse.
00:10:50:13 – 00:11:16:48
Agent Palmer
Okay. So I this is great because it can we can totally segue into fitness trackers because I made fun of my girlfriend. She visited me a couple of years ago, and I don’t know if she had just gotten a Fitbit. But we were snowed in and I don’t know, we were bingeing something or we were watching a bunch of movies.
00:11:16:48 – 00:11:46:11
Agent Palmer
It’s what you do when you’re snowed in. But every hour her little Fitbit would be like, you have to get up and move. And she’d pace around my house. And I was like, what are you doing? Well, fast forward to now and I have a Fitbit. I, I do like it as like, a sleep tracker because I’m more curious about my sleep from, like, a wellness perspective than, like, how many steps I’m getting in.
00:11:46:16 – 00:12:03:59
Agent Palmer
But I never, like, get up when it tells me to. I’m just kind of like, oh, I hit it this hour, or I didn’t, but I’m not going to go out of my way. I got like, you know, I don’t know, should I be like, is that a thing where like, I am getting up? It’s not like I’m not getting.
00:12:04:04 – 00:12:26:08
Margo Donohue
Yeah, I will say this. And this is like the instructor in me, like I tell my students and they always get kind of bummed out, but I’m like, like I teach an early spin class and I’m like, okay, you’re here for an hour and you’re working really hard. If you go to work and you just sit there for the next 6 to 8 hours and you don’t get up and you don’t move, you’ve pretty much done nothing today.
00:12:26:13 – 00:12:43:38
Margo Donohue
You worked your heart a little bit, but your muscles are just not haven’t been moved. You need to move every few hours and that’s really hard. And then people got really into the standing desks. But standing all day isn’t that great for you either. You know, you have to give your spine a break. You have to give your feet a break.
00:12:43:43 – 00:13:01:57
Margo Donohue
So it’s just a mixture of the two. I like it just because it reminds me like why I have the, the Apple Watch and it just everyone smile just as breathe. And I’m like, oh yeah, check in with my breath, you know, how am I feeling right now? I think, like, I like it just it doesn’t. You just have to be something you have to live or die by.
00:13:02:02 – 00:13:22:16
Margo Donohue
But some people really respond well to feedback, and some people really respond well to goals. And I think that’s what they’re great for. But I think people can also get really hampered by them if they think like, oh, I only did 8000 steps today. I’m supposed to do 10,000 or I’m terrible person, like, it’s okay tomorrow, walk a little bit more if you can, or this weekend try to walk a little bit more, you know.
00:13:22:23 – 00:14:02:06
Agent Palmer
Oh, I mean, I lowered mine to 7500 steps because I have basically a desk job. And worse than that, now I work from home. Yeah. So like when I was working in the city so to speak, like it was still a desk job, don’t get me wrong, but it was easier to get steps in because I’m walking to my car and then I’m driving, then I’m parking in the garage, then I’m walking to my office and then, you know, office life, and you’re walking to this meeting or that meeting and, you know, the bathroom is down the hall.
00:14:02:11 – 00:14:25:59
Agent Palmer
And then you’re coming back and then you walk back to the parking deck and then you go home like, so there’s all these daily steps that like other people that if you don’t work from home you, you get in easily. And I like just lowered it because I was like, well I don’t want it to be my life of like, oh, I, I’d love to, but hold on, I’m not there yet.
00:14:25:59 – 00:14:33:33
Agent Palmer
I got to get into more thousand steps. Like, I, I don’t think I’ll ever be that guy, but I did want to hit the goal, so I lowered and.
00:14:33:44 – 00:14:53:53
Margo Donohue
No, that’s okay. I mean, but I work from home too, and I had to just come up with different rules, and I’m dealing with the thing. I have an ankle injury. I fractured my ankle last August, and I had to get major surgery on it. I really screwed it up. So I can only, like I’m with a person that could walk all day long and never think about it.
00:14:53:58 – 00:15:14:12
Margo Donohue
And now I have to get it in like, I got to warm up. I got to, you know, do some knee bends and crap like that, because sometimes I start walking outside and halfway down the block I’m in pain. And so I’ve had to, like, completely rethink what does fitness mean to me and what can I do and how can I make the most of it.
00:15:14:12 – 00:15:32:37
Margo Donohue
And so that’s been my challenge. So I’ve been doing more like when I’m in my apartment, I put a band around my ankles, around my knees, and I’ll kind of walk up and down my hallway, even just for a few minutes. But that’s like making the legs stronger. So even though I can’t go as far, I can get more from it.
00:15:32:41 – 00:16:01:30
Agent Palmer
See. And it’s so I’ve noticed the, I feel like the one thing and we haven’t talked about it yet, and I’m going to lay it on you. Thick is age, right? I I’ve been running since, I don’t know, middle school, probably not regular. I think this might have been the summer I’ve run the most regularly. At like at least four, four days a week, with the exception of a few.
00:16:01:35 – 00:16:28:07
Agent Palmer
Three week deluges where it just did nothing but rain and we didn’t see sun. But in my age, it’s not that I’m running slower or that it it’s taking me longer, or that it’s harder to run as fast as I used to. I’m now in the paranoia phase. I live in a very not mountainous but hilly neighborhood.
00:16:28:12 – 00:16:35:33
Agent Palmer
And I, I almost feel like I’m running with my holding my breath when I go downhill.
00:16:35:38 – 00:16:36:19
Margo Donohue
Well, yeah.
00:16:36:30 – 00:16:48:55
Agent Palmer
My biggest fear now is I’m going to blow out in the running downhill like hill, like going up I have no fear. But going down I am now beyond paranoid.
00:16:49:00 – 00:17:10:05
Margo Donohue
Well you’re talking about somebody that injured herself falling down a flight of stairs. So yeah, going down ain’t great. You know, it’s like I understand your worry. And it is when you get older. I mean, everything is older. And so you do have to kind of keep that in mind. I mean, I would say be really careful about the kind of shoes you’re wearing and the terrain.
00:17:10:20 – 00:17:18:55
Margo Donohue
You know, when I see people running in the rain now, I’m just like, don’t you know, you could slip and fall and that could be it. Like it just. Yeah, age isn’t fun.
00:17:19:00 – 00:17:43:14
Agent Palmer
My my old Jewish grandmother, my bubbe, she was never like. I mean, listen, I got spoiled by her completely and utterly in every facet you could possibly imagine. If there’s anybody of my family listening. Yes, I was the one. I was also geographically the closest to her. So I feel like. And I was the youngest on that side of the family.
00:17:43:14 – 00:18:05:48
Agent Palmer
So it kind of lent to, like, you’re going to get spoiled completely. And while she never said, like, be careful, hers is the voice I hear in my head when it’s like, are you going to go for a run today? No, because it’s raining. I could slip and die. Well, and it was never that much, you know, and this was my loving bubbe.
00:18:05:48 – 00:18:36:36
Agent Palmer
She’s, you know, every time I stopped by, she had double stuffed or a pack of double stuffed Oreos with three missing that she tested just for me. Right. And and what’s weird is I never really like I used to. I went to college about 45 minutes away, so I just stopped by sometimes. And she always had three missing double stuffed Oreos from a full pack for me.
00:18:36:40 – 00:18:52:37
Agent Palmer
Always. And, but she ate a lot of fruit too. Like, I and I need to get into that, and we already talked about it, but like that paranoia like that, that’s a major hurdle.
00:18:52:37 – 00:19:12:20
Margo Donohue
Now, I live in Brooklyn, so I have a lot of friends that are Jewish. And tell me about the Jewish mothers and grandmothers, and they’re no joke. They will make you frightened of things, because if something can happen, it will. I don’t know what to tell you, I think. I mean, do you ever do you have any room for work out equipment at home?
00:19:12:20 – 00:19:18:00
Margo Donohue
I mean, is getting something like a peloton bike or something like that? Is that a possibility or.
00:19:18:00 – 00:19:56:13
Agent Palmer
I, I so really want to get one too, which I really do, except I can’t afford it. Well, it’s, I probably could, but my issue becomes I live in a house that was built in the 1930s, so it’s kind of small. It works for the two of us that are here, but the only place I can put it is my basement, and I am five, ten and a half if I’m generous and there’s just enough room in my basement of clearance to make it work.
00:19:56:13 – 00:20:01:29
Agent Palmer
But if I put it down there, I can never get up in the saddle on that bike, right?
00:20:01:29 – 00:20:02:07
Margo Donohue
That is a problem.
00:20:02:07 – 00:20:19:43
Agent Palmer
Unless I positioned it right in between two sets of, like, runners, along the ceiling. And then I couldn’t move my head left or right. But that that ends up becoming my issue with that. I could put it in the garage, but it’s the northeast, right?
00:20:19:43 – 00:20:21:46
Margo Donohue
It can be freezing half the area.
00:20:21:50 – 00:20:31:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So I really want one. Like I basically need to find some room in my office, which would probably be the only other place I could put it.
00:20:31:17 – 00:20:42:35
Margo Donohue
It’s the one thing I have friends that at home piece of equipment that a year or two years later they’re still using, you know, everything else you use a few times, and then you forget about it.
00:20:42:40 – 00:20:44:30
Agent Palmer
That it becomes the,
00:20:44:35 – 00:20:46:02
Margo Donohue
You hang your laundry on it.
00:20:46:14 – 00:20:47:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah, exactly.
00:20:47:08 – 00:21:05:17
Margo Donohue
Yeah. It’s the only one that I know of that people like, I know that love it because. And they also have their program is around the world that you can kind of joy, but they have like ten minute rides, 20 minute rides, like, come on. It’s like it’s the word I can they please sponsor the show because we’re giving them a free commercial right now.
00:21:05:21 – 00:21:50:39
Agent Palmer
And what’s funny is they’ve kind of, exploded onto the scene, like in a massive way in the last year or two. I am, as anyone who’s followed my blog for probably since its inception, I think maybe I missed a couple of years. I always recap the tour de France. Always. I may not watch a lot of cycling, but I always tune in every July for the whole thing, and they’ve been a not a sponsor, but I’ve seen their commercial for those bikes for at least the last 7 or 8 years, like well, before they became a brand name people actually knew, and I kind of wanted one back then.
00:21:50:44 – 00:22:05:09
Agent Palmer
And now it’s like it would fill in my my exercise gap between when it falls below 72 and then when it gets above 72. In the winter.
00:22:05:14 – 00:22:11:43
Margo Donohue
Yeah, yeah, dude. Spend the money.
00:22:11:48 – 00:22:33:08
Agent Palmer
I, I’m yeah, I just, I just need to make the room for it. Yes. Because I also feel like I probably have room to put it in my bedroom, but I feel like that. I feel like that’s a mistake. Like, I don’t know why I feel this way, because I’ve never done it myself. But I feel like putting exercise equipment in your bedroom is like a mistake.
00:22:33:08 – 00:22:54:45
Margo Donohue
I don’t like it myself. And I’m talking about somebody. I am a very bad sleeper and have been since I was a child. So my bedroom, it’s like there’s no TV in there. I barely have any electronics. It’s like, that’s just going to be for sleeping and that’s it. Reading and sleeping. That’s it. Okay, so.
00:22:54:50 – 00:23:17:46
Agent Palmer
But what makes. So I don’t know if I would consider myself a bad sleeper. Now we get to I mean, that’s one of the reasons that the fit I really like my Fitbit because I get to see like I’m not even really concerned with the sleep score, which they just I mean, it’s some algorithm based on how you slept and how long, but like, I’m curious for like how long I slept, period.
00:23:17:46 – 00:23:41:25
Agent Palmer
Because, I’ve been prone to, I guess bits of insomnia where you’re just laying in bed for, you don’t know. Right? Like you don’t turn on the TV and you wake up anywhere between, like, 1:00 and before the sun starts coming up, it can feel like five hours. Or it could, but it could be five minutes.
00:23:41:25 – 00:23:52:53
Agent Palmer
You have no idea. So when I got the Fitbit and started to like, pay attention, I was like, wow, that was that was only seven minutes. It felt like an hour.
00:23:53:08 – 00:24:10:32
Margo Donohue
Left, right? That’s what I don’t like about Fitbit. And so I never I don’t I take my watch off at night because I’m a shitty sleeper anyway. So I’m just it’s not going to be good. The number is not going to be great. So I just, I just don’t count it, but. Right, but but for me, like, once again, I can have anything in there.
00:24:10:32 – 00:24:13:17
Margo Donohue
I have to just sort of make it just for sleeping.
00:24:13:21 – 00:24:19:49
Agent Palmer
Is there a temptation like, if I, if I snuck in and put a TV in there like I.
00:24:19:54 – 00:24:38:46
Margo Donohue
You know what, if you have kids, that’s one thing because you want to have some place for yourself. Nowadays everything is streaming, so you could just watch it on your laptop. I mean, for me personally, no, I like having a living room where I have the TV and I like having a bedroom, and I have like an iPad, and if I really want to watch something, I can watch something.
00:24:38:46 – 00:24:45:51
Margo Donohue
But, you know, I’m so like I said, I’m so bad at sleeping that that’s I just have to kind of keep it there.
00:24:45:56 – 00:25:08:55
Agent Palmer
In my bedroom. So that leads into are you bad at sleeping? Because like me, your brain doesn’t shut off when it should or is. I mean, I’m not trying to get all therapy on you, really, but, like, I’m just curious because, like, that’s my issue for sleeping is just because I’m tired doesn’t mean my brain’s going to.
00:25:08:55 – 00:25:33:39
Margo Donohue
Shut off now. My brain is is wicked and it runs. It runs all the time. I’ve had this problem. I mean, honest to God. True story. Since I was in grammar school, elementary school, and I was so bad at sleeping some nights that I would get on my bike and ride around the block middle of the night just to get that out of my brain, just to and I.
00:25:33:39 – 00:25:56:20
Margo Donohue
My dad once worked a swing shift, and he came home at like four in the morning, and I was I lit with a little banana seat and streamers and shit. And he’s like, what are you doing? And I said, I can’t sleep. He’s like, read a book or something, like, what are you doing? I just my brain just kind of gets really active and like, I’ve had kids, you know, funny, funny thing.
00:25:56:20 – 00:26:00:30
Margo Donohue
Like, I always want to be on my bike. I’ve always had that. Like, that’s my way of relaxing.
00:26:00:30 – 00:26:24:47
Agent Palmer
So I will say, the only time that that ever came in handy and that it’s the only time in my memory that I’ve ever done this. I remember waking up at 1:00 in the morning. I lived in northeastern Pennsylvania and it had snowed and I just got up. I don’t even know what date. I have no idea what day it was.
00:26:24:56 – 00:26:32:20
Agent Palmer
It could have been a snow day. The next day. It could have been a weekend. I just know that at 1:00 in the morning I couldn’t sleep and I shoveled.
00:26:32:22 – 00:26:36:18
Margo Donohue
Oh, well, that’ll make you fall asleep. Yeah.
00:26:36:23 – 00:27:02:34
Agent Palmer
Now, listen, at that time, it’s not like we had a huge property. I did a little bit of the driveway. I did the front walk, and that’s all we had. Really, I think I may have done the sidewalk, but now I’m just so. I like if if I’m trying to sleep, I’m afraid to get out of bed because I fear I’ll never go.
00:27:02:38 – 00:27:12:34
Agent Palmer
Like or not. Never. But like it’s 3:00 in the morning. You’re staying here till four, and hopefully you’ll fall asleep before then.
00:27:12:38 – 00:27:13:59
Margo Donohue
Yeah, I’ve done that.
00:27:14:03 – 00:27:33:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I and and I did it, I did it. I don’t know if this, this past weekend or whatever, but, like, I was basically awake for 20 hours because the night before I couldn’t sleep. And on that Saturday I got up at 4 a.m. just because I kept watching the clock. And it was like, all right, this isn’t happening.
00:27:34:00 – 00:27:50:01
Agent Palmer
I was I really what it was is for 20 minutes from like 330 to 4:00. Somewhere in there, I was just rolling over repeatedly, hoping that I’d see rays of sunlight, and it would be like, all right, it’s early, but it’s not that early. And then I gave up.
00:27:50:01 – 00:28:09:36
Margo Donohue
Right? I’ve been there. Yeah. And nowadays, because of the it’s it’s fall down so the sun doesn’t come out to like 630 or so. So like in the summer it comes out around five, 530. So it’s like, all right, I’ll just get up, I’ll just go. But in the winter, it sucks. It’s just it’s just dark.
00:28:09:40 – 00:28:37:12
Agent Palmer
All right. So that I mean let’s let’s talk about seasonality for a moment because obviously wellness is more than just exercising. And or health or whatever we call it. It’s more than just what you eat and working out and sleeping. I mean, it’s also emotion and mood. I, I’m plays into that a little bit. You’re in New York.
00:28:37:16 – 00:28:49:27
Agent Palmer
Do you have any advice for those of us in the northeast when it’s like December and just dark all the time, it’s hard.
00:28:49:40 – 00:29:23:06
Margo Donohue
I myself. So I do work from home. I have special lights and, they, they mimic sunlight and I use those in my apartment. So it’s because my office can get super, super dark and and a real bummer. So for me, I use these lights that are very warm. And that seems to help me, I think just like working from home for me, like every day I don’t leave the TV on, I don’t turn the TV on until nighttime.
00:29:23:20 – 00:29:41:28
Margo Donohue
I try to go a walk outside every day, even if it’s just around the corner, just to pick up something. And it’s hard. It’s hard to get that you do need that vitamin D, you do need that sunlight. And, you know, try to get as much of it as you can, you know, and but it’s hard. It can be.
00:29:41:28 – 00:29:48:35
Margo Donohue
It’s a real struggle for me too, especially like when it’s dark at like 430 in the afternoon, you’re just like.
00:29:48:40 – 00:29:57:42
Agent Palmer
I just, I, I mean, I’m thankful, I’m thankful to have a desk job because I remember retail.
00:29:57:46 – 00:29:59:21
Margo Donohue
Oh, yeah. Me too.
00:29:59:25 – 00:30:27:24
Agent Palmer
And if there’s one thing that’s the worst about retail, it’s it’s the fall in winter, and it’s not because of Christmas. It’s not because it’s busy. Like when it’s busy. Retail is actually better because the eight hours, the 12 hours, whatever shift you’re on goes faster. But what’s horrible is it’s dark at 8:00 and you go into work in the morning, and then you come out at 430 and it’s dark again.
00:30:27:28 – 00:30:49:01
Margo Donohue
Yeah. And also it’s like Christmas. There’s like this buildup somewhere around November. There’s the build up to Christmas. And like you said, it’s busy. People are in a good mood. You know, it’s it’s tiring. You come home especially like the week before Christmas. Oh my God, you just are. You’re exhausted. But then there’s like the first couple weeks in January where everything is just returns, right.
00:30:49:01 – 00:31:01:24
Margo Donohue
It’s just returns or exchanges is. Yep, that’s all it is. And everyone’s bummed out because everyone’s broke and they’re tired and it’s cold, and then it’s just so slow until spring comes again.
00:31:01:24 – 00:31:19:16
Agent Palmer
And I find that what’s even like that? This is the death knell. And I feel like it happens. I don’t I kind of try and stay away from retail now because I, I can’t it just like I worked in fast food for a while. Not real fast food like.
00:31:19:16 – 00:31:19:50
Margo Donohue
Same here.
00:31:19:57 – 00:31:23:40
Agent Palmer
I worked in, I worked at Arthur Treacher’s, so I worked at what I was.
00:31:23:40 – 00:31:25:57
Margo Donohue
Called Rogers.
00:31:26:02 – 00:31:27:20
Agent Palmer
Nice.
00:31:27:25 – 00:31:29:31
Margo Donohue
I was, I was like Roy Rogers.
00:31:29:36 – 00:31:40:27
Agent Palmer
I, I just, I know that that’s not quite the same, but like, if I do go to a fast food restaurant now, I have a lot more patience. But what.
00:31:40:27 – 00:31:41:31
Margo Donohue
Happens so nice.
00:31:41:37 – 00:32:15:53
Agent Palmer
What happens with retail is like I take the time to fold things, even like if I’m waiting for someone like I’ll just start folding stuff and I don’t want to do that anymore. So I just kind of stay away. But yeah, what what I find was the even worse was like the bathing suits like you do returns through January, and then Valentine’s Day stuff goes out in the middle of January, followed a week later by swimsuits.
00:32:15:58 – 00:32:43:10
Agent Palmer
What what what? I understand that people go on, like, cruises and they hop a plane to Florida, but, why are we putting summer stuff out in in February? It’s like that’s. And it’s it, it’s it mentally messes with you to the point where I spent seven years in what I call retail hell, and you just become numb.
00:32:43:14 – 00:32:54:36
Agent Palmer
And it’s not December. It’s all right. Christmas stuff’s coming down soon and we’re getting ready for returns, and the calendar just goes away.
00:32:54:41 – 00:33:19:09
Margo Donohue
Yeah. There’s a there was a book that came out a few years ago about retail, and it was a journalist who was laid off, you know, during the recession of like 2008, 2009. And she worked in Pennsylvania. I think it was she worked at a retail place for a year, and she wrote about it. And it’s just like just dealing with customers can be so draining.
00:33:19:14 – 00:33:41:55
Margo Donohue
You know, some people are great, but some people are just not. And then it depends on what your store sold. So this one store I worked at, I worked at a shoe store all through college, and then I worked at a store that sold dance wear and workout wear and in the in October we would sell costumes because all year leotards and tights.
00:33:41:59 – 00:34:06:49
Margo Donohue
So the whole story would be taken over by these costumes and honest to God, by like October 30th, you wanted to punch people in the throat. You were so sick of devil wing, devil horns and angel wings and people would try to return leotards. You know, they try it on at home. And it just was like it took me years to enjoy Halloween again.
00:34:06:49 – 00:34:17:46
Margo Donohue
And it took me years before I could go any, like shopping at the holiday, like in December. To go Christmas shopping in a store took me years to do that because it’s just so much stuff that comes back to you.
00:34:17:53 – 00:34:52:36
Agent Palmer
I just learned the other day that Kohl’s is taking Amazon returns. Oh no. So if you and that’s where I worked for seven years I worked at a Kohl’s and Kohl’s return policy was if it’s in our system we’ll take it back no questions asked. I once helped return at customer service, an outdoor patio set that had, I swear, just been bought and used for five years and they were like, we can get a new one, we’ll just return it.
00:34:52:41 – 00:35:02:27
Agent Palmer
And the policy was you’ll take it. So like you become, I don’t want to say jaded, I’m pretty J I was pretty jaded before.
00:35:02:41 – 00:35:03:26
Margo Donohue
Oh, you’re jaded.
00:35:03:26 – 00:35:16:27
Agent Palmer
But, like, it just you’re just like, all right, this is my job. This is what I get paid for. I have to take it back. But now they’re doing Amazon returns, and I’m just like, Thank God I’m not.
00:35:16:27 – 00:35:31:44
Margo Donohue
There’s no way, no way. I, I worked at nine West at a shoe store. I was how I put myself through college and people who have like two different size feet and were buy say to me, oh, I’ll just buy both of them and then I’ll figure out which one is better and I’ll bring the other one back.
00:35:31:51 – 00:35:46:23
Margo Donohue
And then they would switch him so they’d be like the left would be an eight and a half and the right would be a nine. And they think, I’m not going to notice that. Like and people pull that crap. I mean, so many things. Oh I just wore it to an event and they were like tape the bottom of the shoes.
00:35:46:38 – 00:36:01:46
Margo Donohue
So the shoes have like glue on it from the to the tape. And it just was like, I’m going to fight this or I’m just going to give them their money back and get yelled at by my manager, like, what’s it going to be? Right? I mean, it’s just, people try to get away with so much.
00:36:01:51 – 00:36:23:17
Agent Palmer
I don’t remember if I took advantage of systems like before that I worked in fast food and before I worked in retail, but I know I definitely don’t now because I have such, like, I walk into those stores and I’m like, I have a kinship with you. I know it could be your best day. It could be your worst day.
00:36:23:19 – 00:36:27:00
Agent Palmer
I’ve been there, buddy. I know what you’re going through.
00:36:27:14 – 00:36:32:54
Margo Donohue
Yeah, I worked at the drive. I worked in the drive thru and Roy Rogers in New Jersey. And one night.
00:36:32:56 – 00:36:35:47
Agent Palmer
Was. It was. It was one of the Turnpike ones.
00:36:35:52 – 00:36:56:02
Margo Donohue
No, no, it wasn’t a Turnpike one. It was in Glenrock, which is one of the nicer ones. And, it was very late on a Saturday night. So Saturday night, like after 8 p.m., it’s just, you know, at a at a fast food place, it’s a crapshoot. You know, you get the drunks, you’re getting just like crazy people.
00:36:56:02 – 00:36:57:27
Agent Palmer
They were you open.
00:36:57:32 – 00:37:16:43
Margo Donohue
We were there till midnight. I remember we would get out around two okay. Yeah. And it was really late. It was like 10 or 1030 and somebody came through the drive thru. I thought they sounded weird and they came up to my window, and then they pointed a gun at me and they robbed me. And I had to give them the money and stuff like that.
00:37:16:48 – 00:37:39:36
Margo Donohue
And, and I remember just thinking, like, I’m making $5 an hour here, like, I, I have no loyalty. But it was it was frightening. I was just like, I’m just a kid and I have this money that I gave. And they just it was a very traumatizing experience. But, I mean, with the kind of abuse that people put up with when you’re in a fast food place, like, I just can’t add to that.
00:37:39:37 – 00:37:44:57
Margo Donohue
So I’m they could be assholes to me, and I’m just super nice about it because I just, I know what it feels like.
00:37:44:57 – 00:37:54:02
Agent Palmer
Did did I have I mean, I got to follow up on that. Did they give you any like, I don’t know, nothing.
00:37:54:07 – 00:38:11:44
Margo Donohue
I, they, I gave them the money, I call I, they were laughing at me because I was shaking, because I was so scared and I gave them the money I had in my register and they took off. And then I was so scared, I thought I was I was like, I ran to the bathroom, I had to go to the bathroom.
00:38:11:59 – 00:38:28:46
Margo Donohue
And then I ran to my boss. And I was so embarrassed. And he was like, no, you did the right thing. Just give the money. We don’t care. You know? It’s it’s okay. But then they’re like, so what did they look like? I’m like, I don’t know, a couple of white dudes, like around 20 years old, you know what I mean?
00:38:28:46 – 00:38:42:08
Margo Donohue
Like, then all of a sudden it’s like I couldn’t, you know, it’s like like, I can’t remember specifics. Or. What was the car? What was this? What was that like on those shows like Law and Order, when people can recall everything, I’m like, how can you do that? Yeah, I you remember anything when it was done.
00:38:42:13 – 00:38:51:58
Agent Palmer
That makes no sense. Like if I’m. Yeah, if I’m even slightly distracted by something, I don’t even know who’s talking to me. Yeah.
00:38:51:59 – 00:38:55:32
Margo Donohue
Like memory is a funny thing. Yeah.
00:38:55:37 – 00:39:00:23
Agent Palmer
But did did like, did they give you any counseling or.
00:39:00:25 – 00:39:03:21
Margo Donohue
No, of course not. No. This was this is another time.
00:39:03:21 – 00:39:03:48
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah.
00:39:03:48 – 00:39:20:46
Margo Donohue
It’s they were just like, are you okay? All right. Do you want to work the salad bar? Yeah, I’ll work the salad bar. That’s better. And so that was much better. But I loved the drive thru up until then because you’re just to yourself. You could sit, you could think it was great.
00:39:20:51 – 00:39:56:06
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I didn’t have that. Nothing really bad happen. I mean, it’s Arthur Treacher’s. Our target audience was 75 years old. Like, we knew that on Tuesdays when the welfare checks came out would be our busy day. We had a guy that we literally gave him a nickname of Diet Coke because while we had changed the machines from Coke to Pepsi like four years prior, he always came in and asked for Diet Coke, and then he’d come back up and ask for a refill.
00:39:56:11 – 00:40:10:50
Agent Palmer
But he wouldn’t ask. He wouldn’t ask. He did. He would just come up. Rattle is his icy little small cup. It was always a small cup. He wouldn’t spend any more money and and shake his ice and be like Diet Coke. Diet Coke, even though we didn’t. But.
00:40:11:05 – 00:40:14:01
Margo Donohue
And yeah, you’re like, what are you. You know, what is his life like.
00:40:14:01 – 00:40:41:23
Agent Palmer
And you better and you balance that with well I was I don’t know, 1617 and I mean I could drive, but you don’t really have a lot of other things you can do. So like, I was friendly with my assistant managers occasionally it’d be like 15 minutes to close and you’d be like, I feel a rush coming on, and you throw down some food so you can take it to your friends that you’re hanging out with later that night.
00:40:41:23 – 00:40:42:36
Margo Donohue
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
00:40:42:37 – 00:40:54:43
Agent Palmer
That’s that’s like that’s probably the guiltiest thing I ever really did when it comes to that fast food stuff. It’s just like, oh yeah, I’m sure I listen, Arthur Treacher’s doesn’t even exist anymore.
00:40:54:43 – 00:40:57:22
Margo Donohue
So now that’s where Rogers.
00:40:57:27 – 00:40:57:54
Agent Palmer
I will.
00:40:57:54 – 00:40:59:56
Margo Donohue
Say, I think we’re okay. We could tell our story.
00:40:59:56 – 00:41:22:52
Agent Palmer
If I could have, I would have stolen a, like, a bag of the hushpuppy mix. Because, like, when I run into friends who knew me or would, you know, everybody talks about the Hush Puppies from Arthur Treacher’s, and I’ve tried occasionally, if I’m at a place and Long John Silver’s may have hushpuppies, but they’re not that good. I don’t know.
00:41:22:52 – 00:41:32:04
Agent Palmer
There was just something about, though. And listen, I saw them getting made. I know what they were. They weren’t much, but it’s just there was something about them.
00:41:32:09 – 00:41:47:48
Margo Donohue
We had we had biscuits at Roy Rogers that we made from scratch because, you know, have biscuits with your chicken. Yeah. So what we would do is we would take the hot biscuits and we’d crunch them up in, we, we sold soft skirt, soft serve ice cream.
00:41:48:00 – 00:41:48:25
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:41:48:38 – 00:42:08:50
Margo Donohue
So you take the biscuit and you take a tongs and you crunch it up, and then you put some strawberries in there, and then you put the vanilla ice cream on top. So it’s like strawberry shortcake. Nothing in my life has ever been as delicious as that. I mean, that was our whole treat that we all did for each other and oh my God, it was delicious.
00:42:09:01 – 00:42:36:40
Agent Palmer
We had, it wasn’t on the menu, but you could order it. At one point, Arthur Treacher’s attempted breakfast and we could still order, and we would. Every time we made an order, we ordered one bag of French toast sticks. Ooh. Which? Listen, they are absolutely the most disgusting thing you can order at a fast food restaurant.
00:42:36:40 – 00:43:11:23
Agent Palmer
Except if you can eat it right out of the fryer when it’s still delicious on the outside. And like, moist on the inside. And it’s not just rubbery heaven, heaven, heaven. It was ridiculous. And you know what? They were, lightly brown sugar season to begin with. You ate them plain. You didn’t need sirup for them. And it’s also where I got ruined on French fries too.
00:43:11:28 – 00:43:28:00
Agent Palmer
Because again, when you work there and you are so used to just. I want some French fries with my lunch, I’m going to put them. I’m going to have fresh fries. Yeah. But Arthur Treacher’s had a potato topping for.
00:43:28:04 – 00:43:32:22
Margo Donohue
We had, we had, baked potato thing too. So, it was what.
00:43:32:22 – 00:43:48:04
Agent Palmer
Can you come up with? And it was like, oh, I the chili with the cheese. Yeah. But if you put the right amount of onions and then and then you get like adventurous, but like it was just that was probably the healthiest thing I was eating back then. It was I mean, I don’t know what I was. Yeah.
00:43:48:06 – 00:43:52:23
Agent Palmer
What I was putting on, it wasn’t. But the baked potato is probably better than the French fries.
00:43:52:28 – 00:44:08:28
Margo Donohue
I’m sure I did the same thing. We had baked potatoes. I think I liked our gratin. I liked it with the cheese and broccoli. Yeah, but you like like the fresh steamed broccoli and the fresh cheddar cheese from the, you know, the refrigerator and everything. Bacon bits, sour cream. Forget it.
00:44:08:30 – 00:44:37:13
Agent Palmer
Now, I did want to ask you about trading because my statute of limitations is gone in the more strip mall type area I was, there was a Pizza Hut, a McDonald’s, and then, they built an Arby’s and we would call around and for like, a year and a half, it was it was great because at some point, no matter how much you get to be creative with your own food, you get sick of it.
00:44:37:27 – 00:44:47:17
Agent Palmer
Like we would call up like Pizza Hut. And they’d be like, yeah, we’ll trade you like two medium pizzas for like, I don’t know, four fish sandwiches and some hushpuppies.
00:44:47:22 – 00:44:51:31
Margo Donohue
Oh, that’s that’s brilliant. No, we didn’t have that. We were the only thing in the strip mall.
00:44:51:45 – 00:45:15:23
Agent Palmer
So this went on between all of the restaurants. It was great. And like we with the exception of the Pizza Hut, the Arby’s and the McDonald’s, we had a system. So like, we didn’t have a drive through, but we’d send somebody through their drive through and we’d hand in the food and they’d hand us what we got.
00:45:15:27 – 00:45:46:31
Agent Palmer
And it worked really good. So well until. And I only remember the two entities, but I don’t remember which entity called which anymore. I think it was the Pizza Hut called the McDonald’s, and the McDonald’s regional supervisor answered the phone, and the Pizza Hut person was like, yeah, we’ll trade you this for this and didn’t like, didn’t think like, oh, maybe it’s not a regular person.
00:45:46:36 – 00:45:54:54
Agent Palmer
And then from then, from that point on, there was no more trading with McDonald’s. But at least we still had Pizza Hut and Arby’s to trade with.
00:45:54:59 – 00:46:14:34
Margo Donohue
That’s brilliant. Do you remember, like we got in the summer, I would work it was the 8 to 4 shift. I remember that, like, you would come in at eight in the evening and you would get home around four in the morning. And because it was like so much cleanup, but you got double time if you did that.
00:46:14:39 – 00:46:31:55
Margo Donohue
And it’s just weird. People that work the overnight shift and it was just me and other kids in my neighborhood like it, it, I don’t know. I have a lot of fondness for those times. I don’t know, it taught me a work ethic and I don’t know, having your own money and making friends from other schools and stuff like that.
00:46:31:55 – 00:46:32:32
Margo Donohue
I loved it.
00:46:32:47 – 00:47:03:07
Agent Palmer
It was I, I absolutely think that that may have been one of my favorite jobs. I had a manager. It’s the favorite job I ever quit. Yeah. And I will tell you this gem of a story. The assistant manager was a guy named Raj, and the manager was Christy. And Christy was wonderful. She was understanding.
00:47:03:07 – 00:47:15:08
Agent Palmer
And, you know, if it was her, Raj Rogers, like, in his late mid, mid to late 20s at the time, Christine probably was too. And then the rest of us were like high school kids.
00:47:15:08 – 00:47:16:46
Margo Donohue
So same here, same here.
00:47:16:46 – 00:47:57:07
Agent Palmer
They kind of they were lenient with us as long as it wasn’t a no call, no show, like you could come in a little bit late or you could, you know, be in worse shape than you were the day before. What whatever it was. And, it was kind of the first time where not only do you have your own money and you have this freedom because, like, I mean, we we closed it, I think 11 so like the latest I would be out of there is like 1230 but you have this automatic freedom where because you have a job like the curfew with your parents, whether you had one or not is gone because
00:47:57:07 – 00:47:57:34
Agent Palmer
like, oh.
00:47:57:34 – 00:48:01:10
Margo Donohue
It totally went away. I didn’t have to go to church anymore. I’m scared I was working.
00:48:01:10 – 00:48:19:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You’re scheduled to work until you’re you’re scheduled to work until close and you don’t get out of there when the door is locked and it was hanging. You’re hanging out with older people. Like, these are a I mean, for a 15, 16 year old, like mid 20s, like you’re old. These are adults.
00:48:19:10 – 00:48:24:29
Margo Donohue
Oh yeah. They had cars. They had apartments. I thought that was amazing.
00:48:24:34 – 00:48:49:51
Agent Palmer
It I mean, and it’s I feel like there’s, I think I’ve always been able to talk to older people. On one side of my family, I am the young. I’m the oldest by seven years, which means for seven years of my life, there were no other grandchildren to play with. I just had to learn to talk to adults.
00:48:49:55 – 00:49:14:21
Agent Palmer
And then I think it made it easier at that point when it was like, oh, well, he’s I mean, yeah, he’s like eight years older than me, but he’s just a guy like it. And you, you learn that like they like doing the same thing I do think that’s great. Like, and now I feel like I’m older now than the oldest person I ever hung out with.
00:49:14:21 – 00:49:41:26
Agent Palmer
Was then. Yeah, but I still don’t feel that way. And maybe it’s because I still eat like I used to. And maybe it’s because I don’t sleep very much and, like. Well, I mean, they’re I don’t know if it’s a meme, but it probably is of, like, you know, in Avengers at the end of the first Avengers cap Hulk like, how do you control the anger?
00:49:41:26 – 00:50:02:13
Agent Palmer
He’s like, that’s the seeker, cap. I’m always angry. Well, you know what my secret is? I’m always tired. How can I function on very little sleep? Because I’m always tired. I’m always functioning on not enough sleep. And even when I get enough sleep, it’s not enough. I’m sure that’ll change. I’m sure that cannot go on forever.
00:50:02:13 – 00:50:32:28
Agent Palmer
It does not. We started this whole conversation talking about health. There’s no. I know that I can remain healthy, functioning human and, like, not settle into some kind of more regular sleep pattern, but I still feel young at heart, like I we talk about being afraid of running downhill, but that’s a paranoia. So like, I feel like it’s not age, right?
00:50:32:32 – 00:50:57:12
Margo Donohue
No, I feel like I, I’m still really good friends with someone who we worked together at that Roy Rogers, and we talk about it all the time, like she never got married either. And she’s a huge Springsteen fan, and she just follows Bruce on tour, and she makes enough money that, you know, when she when he’s not on tour, she makes good money and she saves it and she goes on trips and she sees him wherever she goes.
00:50:57:12 – 00:51:02:13
Margo Donohue
And she’s like, in a lot of ways, I’m still that 18 year old kid and, you know, good for you.
00:51:02:18 – 00:51:23:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, friend of mine just moved near me, one of my best friends for the. It’s the first time we’ve lived within a few miles of each other. Actually, it’s the first time we’ve lived. I mean, we do live within a mile of each other now, but it’s the probably the first time we live within an hour of each other since high school, when we were about a mile apart.
00:51:23:20 – 00:51:52:37
Agent Palmer
And he was one of the guys I used to share that food with. And we were hanging out the other day and he’s like, dude, my parents used to love when you drop off those hushpuppies and it’s it’s just a little this thing because I, I like, I, I guess the other thing that I’m sure was the same for you, like, you treat your friends well like I never dropped food at a at quarter to closing time for myself.
00:51:52:37 – 00:51:54:49
Agent Palmer
It was because I’m going to eat it with my friends.
00:51:54:54 – 00:51:55:44
Margo Donohue
Yeah, exactly.
00:51:55:44 – 00:52:21:51
Agent Palmer
That’s that’s the way. And and there’s, there’s a worldview that completely changes where. And I don’t know when it happened, but I’m, I’m doing a lot more things or I’m going back to doing things with friends. Now, when in high school and college, that’s all it was. You never really thought about yourself. You thought about your group as the self.
00:52:21:56 – 00:52:22:34
Margo Donohue
00:52:23:04 – 00:52:30:54
Agent Palmer
And I learned a lot of that work and fast food like that was all like what are we going to do and what are we going to do when we get out of here.
00:52:30:59 – 00:52:34:46
Margo Donohue
Right. What movie are we going to go say?
00:52:34:51 – 00:52:48:12
Agent Palmer
Yep. And I remember there was a 24 hour Walmart like within five minutes of it. And if we didn’t know what we were going to do after we closed, we’d go wander around the Walmart because it was a place to go that wasn’t home.
00:52:48:16 – 00:53:07:38
Margo Donohue
Right? No, I totally understand that. And that that friend I’m just talking about, by the way, I remember, when we worked the 8 to 4 shift in the morning, 8 to 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. a couple of times we went into the city, into New York, and hung out to like two in the morning and then take the bus back.
00:53:07:38 – 00:53:28:03
Margo Donohue
And Carol had a key. She was like one, and she was friendly with one of the managers, so she had a key. So we were being close with us. We would get there around 4 or 5 a.m., go into the Roy Rogers sleep, you know, and one of the seating areas until somebody came in and then we’d start working and then work 8 to 4.
00:53:28:08 – 00:53:35:49
Margo Donohue
And you know, when you’re 16, 17, you’re like, yeah, okay, sure, let’s do that. It’s astonishing to me now because I there’s no way I could do that now.
00:53:35:54 – 00:53:50:26
Agent Palmer
I get yeah, I’m, I’m with you. I, I’m sure there were nights where, that happened because I was hanging out with the assistant managers, but, like, now, the thought of the thought of sleeping without a bed right now.
00:53:50:31 – 00:54:00:28
Margo Donohue
Oh, no. Like in a banquette. In a banquette? Yeah, like your jeans and shit. Now it’s. But we thought it was amazing. You know, we we spent the night New York.
00:54:00:28 – 00:54:27:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And there were these moments of freedom, that, like, this is the, like, if there’s anybody under the age of 18 that’s like, come on, guys. Like what? Like, no, you don’t understand those moments of freedom go away when you become like a real adult because, like, you have to make the choice to stay up late.
00:54:27:07 – 00:54:48:40
Agent Palmer
It’s not can we or when are we going to or what are we going to do it? You have to you. Those aren’t decisions you make. You’re if there’s something to do to stay up, you stay up. But now it’s like I have to first make the decision that I’m going to stay up late. And that’s not freedom anymore.
00:54:48:45 – 00:55:07:40
Margo Donohue
No, there are consequences to staying up late now. There weren’t any then. That’s that’s the difference. You know, I don’t I don’t react well to just for hours of sleep. If I stay up all night now I feel it for days. You know, it’s like when they change the clocks back, I’ll be. I’m one of those people that’s like, what’s going, oh, what time is it?
00:55:07:40 – 00:55:10:22
Margo Donohue
I don’t know, I so funny, we.
00:55:10:22 – 00:55:15:17
Agent Palmer
Need to go. We I mean, it’s a different conversation, but we need to do away with that. Like.
00:55:15:29 – 00:55:19:36
Margo Donohue
Yeah. Oh absolutely. I been on that train for a long time.
00:55:19:41 – 00:55:41:14
Agent Palmer
I, I will say, I don’t usually get into politics or I haven’t, I don’t, you know, but I didn’t a Bush junior was supposed to get rid of Daylight Savings time. I remember that being like a, talking point for him through in one entire summer and that it never happened.
00:55:41:19 – 00:55:50:26
Margo Donohue
For some reason, it’ll never happen. It. I thought sometime in my. I don’t think in our lifetime it will for some reason, it has to be there.
00:55:50:31 – 00:55:54:04
Agent Palmer
There’s too much. I mean, it, I don’t know.
00:55:54:09 – 00:55:56:52
Margo Donohue
Someone’s making money from it. I’m sure that’s that’s that’s clear.
00:55:56:54 – 00:56:00:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. Or there’s too many votes to be had by keeping it.
00:56:00:48 – 00:56:03:39
Margo Donohue
Yeah. Yeah I, I do I agree.
00:56:03:44 – 00:56:15:35
Agent Palmer
I, I did want to ask though, is being a fitness coach is it easier because you can see behind the curtain or is it just as well you still have to motivate yourself?
00:56:15:40 – 00:56:17:17
Margo Donohue
Oh, you mean for me? Yeah.
00:56:17:17 – 00:56:18:13
Agent Palmer
For you.
00:56:18:18 – 00:56:42:20
Margo Donohue
It’s hard. It’s harder because I. I give so much energy to other people and what they need to do. We’re just as bad as anybody, you know, trainers you will see at the bar as much as anybody else like you because you need, you need a release and, you know, the, the trainers that do walk the walk all the time, they tend to not be that interesting.
00:56:42:25 – 00:57:10:49
Margo Donohue
It’s makes you a little bit more relatable to people when you’re also you know, I don’t know I don’t you know, it’s it’s funny because we’ve had this discussion at for bottom Girls before and we need to normalize the industry more so that more types of bodies and more types of people are seen as healthy and fit. And okay, it’s it was such a narrow mold for a while, and most people can’t fit into that mold.
00:57:11:01 – 00:57:28:35
Margo Donohue
And so you set up this expectation for people that they’re not going to be able to do, and then they feel bad about themselves. And then it’s like the cycle and I feel like we need to there needs to be more of a conversation about like, what’s realistic for you and what and what do you want your life to look like?
00:57:28:35 – 00:57:43:54
Margo Donohue
Like, for me, I just want to be one of those people in my 80s that I can walk around and keep up with everybody else. I don’t want to have to have any help getting in and out of bed. I had relatives like that, you know, that they couldn’t do anything for themselves. Like, that’s my expectation when I was younger.
00:57:44:01 – 00:58:01:58
Margo Donohue
I want to be thin. I want to be pretty. I want everyone to notice me. I think it’s just as I get older, my expectations for myself have changed, and I think the world has changed a little bit about what’s considered attractive and what’s considered healthy. And that’s a good thing. So a long answer to your question.
00:58:01:58 – 00:58:29:49
Agent Palmer
No, no, it’s it’s probably the best answer to the question because I feel like it’s not as sexy of a, movement, if you will, as like, yeah, LGBTQ, I feel like I’m missing some letters in the alphabet soup that, that, that that group has become. And I mean, no offense by it, it’s just like I can’t keep up like it was LGBT and then it was LGBTQ, and then it was something else.
00:58:29:49 – 00:58:54:14
Agent Palmer
But like, that’s fine, but that’s sexual orientation. Body type is or I guess the better phrase is body acceptance is a whole different thing. I’ve been thin all my life. I mean, I can’t tell you how many like Ethio starving Ethiopian jokes like I hear from people because I’m thin, like I. I once tried to put on weight.
00:58:54:23 – 00:59:16:46
Agent Palmer
It didn’t work. I’m sure I will like with age, but I would never call myself in shape because I could never put on muscle so I could never look like x, Y, and Z. And that was always a thing. Like, yeah, okay, I could outrun you. Great, right? But my arms are sticks that they’ve always been that way.
00:59:17:01 – 00:59:38:04
Margo Donohue
And it gets harder. It’s and it’s gotten worse. I think especially for men, I think the idea of what a man should look like, everybody thinks it’s like he needs to have a six pack and guns and all that stuff, and, well, if you want that, well, it’s just discipline. You just need discipline to do that. And it’s like, no, like all those guys like from the Marvel films and stuff like that.
00:59:38:09 – 01:00:03:17
Margo Donohue
They have nutritionists, they have cooks that follow them around. They have trainers that watch every single movement that they do, and they don’t have an ounce of fun when they’re doing it. Okay. It’s like there’s no beer, there’s no potatoes, there’s no starch, they’re sleeping ten hours a night, like it’s just working out and and and broccoli and and all that stuff, I mean, and all that and only works for some people.
01:00:03:17 – 01:00:26:40
Margo Donohue
Not everybody gets into that shape doing all those sacrifices. You know, I meet trainers all the time now. They are bigger men and women, you know, you know, looks wise, they can run faster than me. They can jump higher than me. They’re more flexible than me. It’s I’ve met yoga people that are twice my size that can do a thousand times more than I can do more poses and stuff.
01:00:26:54 – 01:00:38:28
Margo Donohue
So I think it’s just we need to get more of that body acceptance. We just look at a body and decides, oh, it’s round. Therefore they’re fat, therefore they’re lazy and this and that, like that. That’s the narration that has to stop.
01:00:38:30 – 01:01:08:28
Agent Palmer
And, and I mean, and is, is is that I don’t even know what like I’m speechless as to how that even starts in a conversation. I know, in, in movie screens and on, television screens, like the amount of body types we’re seeing is growing and we’re seeing more people, but nobody’s talking about it. It’s. Isn’t she adorable?
01:01:08:43 – 01:01:37:36
Agent Palmer
Isn’t he nice? But nobody’s talking about like, oh, that person X, that person Y, like, no, I don’t even know how these discussions happen except that, you know, for the gay community, it started with a cake, you know, and it started with gay marriage. Like, there is no, there there are no body rights in, in terms of body shaming that people are fighting for.
01:01:37:36 – 01:01:48:15
Agent Palmer
You’re basically just fighting for acceptance for all. And there’s no, there’s no pithy like tagline for that.
01:01:48:20 – 01:02:14:10
Margo Donohue
You know, I it’s I don’t want to be a total downer, but I had a I had lost a very good friend of mine a couple of weeks ago. She had a heart attack, and she was 44 and healthy, but it ran in her family. And, unfortunately she didn’t make it. And, you know, live your life as well as you can to the best that you can treat your body as well as you can, the best you can most of the time.
01:02:14:10 – 01:02:33:57
Margo Donohue
That’s my advice to you, okay? And don’t set up huge expectations for yourself to look a certain way. You know, there’s a lot of like super thin people who aren’t healthy. There’s a lot of super fit looking people. You look on Instagram, you think they have no problems and everything’s great. They’ve got tons of problems, okay? And there’s people you can see.
01:02:33:57 – 01:02:52:05
Margo Donohue
You’re walking down the street and you think, oh, that woman’s plus size. She probably never works out. And like, she probably can outlive to you, you know, or she can outrun you or whatever. Like really think about your perceptions of people when you see them in the size that you see them. Because you’re not getting the full picture.
01:02:52:10 – 01:03:31:23
Agent Palmer
No, I like that, I like that, I mean, I it’s the healthiest person. And this is something we only really touched on. I’d like to think mentally I have it together. All right, but that’s a whole completely other side. And conversation of health and wellness, that I feel like is just starting to be talked about. Yeah, it’s only been in the last, like, 6 to 8 months or even a year or two that I’ve really hear people say like, no, you need self self-care in terms of mental.
01:03:31:28 – 01:03:59:02
Agent Palmer
And that’s the other side of that too, like that person running down the street that you see running every morning when you’re sitting on the bus, maybe the most unhappy person ever, whereas the guy sitting next to you jamming out to a podcast, probably pretty happy maybe. Yeah. You don’t, you never know. There’s a, there’s those other factors, that we just don’t you don’t see it’s the end.
01:03:59:02 – 01:04:02:20
Agent Palmer
It is the factors that you don’t see that matter the most.
01:04:02:25 – 01:04:14:54
Margo Donohue
And that’s why he drives me crazy like Bill Maher. Yeah, he’s so shitty. But on his show a few weeks ago, he had a whole thing. Like, we need to bring back fat shaming. And it’s like, first of all, asshole. It never went away.
01:04:14:59 – 01:04:15:29
Agent Palmer
It didn’t.
01:04:15:31 – 01:04:25:20
Margo Donohue
But secondly, it doesn’t work. And it doesn’t work because if it did, no one would be fat. Really? You know.
01:04:25:24 – 01:04:25:59
Agent Palmer
I’m, you know.
01:04:25:59 – 01:04:28:55
Margo Donohue
I have any idea what people are going through.
01:04:29:00 – 01:04:57:16
Agent Palmer
I think fat, all fat shaming did was create fat, depressed people. Yeah, or more depressed people. They didn’t even have to be fat for that matter. I mean, I know, I mean, I should take that back because I know people. I remember you and I are older. So we went to high school in a pre social media, not pre-internet, but like I the biggest thing for us was IQ and IRC.
01:04:57:18 – 01:05:06:27
Agent Palmer
I am hadn’t even hit yet and. That kind of stuff that got tossed around in the hallways. None of that was nice.
01:05:06:32 – 01:05:28:51
Margo Donohue
No. That was, that was hard enough. I can’t imagine being a teenager now and then having somebody on the other side of the world be able to contact you and say something awful or try to, you know, get you into doing something terrible. It’s it’s a very it’s it’s a tough world. I mean, I’m just I’m trying to get across that, you know, you really don’t know what people are going through.
01:05:28:58 – 01:05:49:18
Margo Donohue
You have I mean, I know this from teaching and I had when I first started teaching, I thought like, oh, I got to motivate people. So if they don’t look like they’re into it, I got to get over there and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, it took me a while to realize, like, some people are in that class, they’re dealing with morning or they’re dealing with losing a job, or they’re dealing with a kid that has a problem.
01:05:49:18 – 01:06:07:02
Margo Donohue
And maybe this is this one hour that nobody asks anything of them and they just want to work out, you know. And so and that’s totally valid. And let somebody alone and let somebody have their space. That’s self-care for them. And that’s what I’ve like, been teaching for ten years now. Like those are the things I’m learning.
01:06:07:15 – 01:06:11:47
Agent Palmer
Are you fulfilled by teaching?
01:06:11:52 – 01:06:39:37
Margo Donohue
Very much so. I think it’s it’s the favorite thing I do. And I think I’ve learned a tremendous amount about myself from learning about other people. And I think I’m a much more empathetic person, and I think I get way more from them than they do from me. And oftentimes when I’m teaching, I think to myself every once a while I would do this for free because I’m just it’s so much it’s I’m getting so much from it.
01:06:39:44 – 01:07:00:19
Margo Donohue
I’m glad I’m getting paid for it. Trust me. And some classes, you know, sometimes you show up in the best mood or the best music and you’re like, yeah, let’s do this. And the energy is just not there. Like it’s just a struggle every minute. And sometimes you go in there and it’s just you’re in a lousy mood and you’re like, okay, I’m just going to knock this one out and you turn out, you’re in a great mood by the end of it.
01:07:00:19 – 01:07:18:00
Margo Donohue
Like, you just never know what you’re going to get. But I’ve I’ve learned so much about people and it’s made me I think it’s made me a nicer person. And that’s probably what turned me into a better podcaster, because I’m better at listening to people and not just talking all the time, but just really paying attention to them.
01:07:18:00 – 01:07:29:01
Margo Donohue
I think that’s made a big difference.
01:07:29:06 – 01:07:51:46
Agent Palmer
I started to and failed to complete telling the story of how I quit that fast food job and then regained it. So that’s what I can do here. Christy, my manager at the time, quit due to some corporate changes. I’m really fuzzy on those details, which led to a new manager at the Arthur Treacher’s. We’ll call him Tom because I have absolutely no idea what his real name was.
01:07:51:50 – 01:08:10:08
Agent Palmer
Tom wasn’t that well endeared by those of us who liked working for Christy. And one day, not too long after Tom it started, he and I got into a bit of an argument over whether or not I was properly washing dishes. All I remember of that argument is stating that he couldn’t cook, much less clean and fast food, and I walked out.
01:08:10:13 – 01:08:39:14
Agent Palmer
Perhaps it’s not much of a story. Perhaps it is, I don’t know. Eventually, like a week later, he flailed out and Christy came back. I was rehired and that that now that I’ve got that out of the way, while this conversation could lend itself to a few afterschool special endings, eat better, sleep better, don’t judge a book by its cover, etc., etc., etc. I think the mental health angle is the one that matters the most.
01:08:39:19 – 01:09:00:28
Agent Palmer
Do what you like and what you love. Consume things that make you happy and hang out with old friends and make new ones. Reminisce and make new memories. Recently, Sturgill Simpson, The Sound and Fury the album and the Netflix special has been keeping me sane. It’s put a dent into my podcast listening, but it’s helped to be the soundtrack that has gotten me through some tough days recently.
01:09:00:28 – 01:09:25:28
Agent Palmer
Plus, as I record this by myself in my secret undisclosed location, make Art Not Friends is a song after my own ambitions. I’ve come to terms with the idea that I met my most content creating something, working on blog posts, this podcast, other podcasts, and passion projects for myself and with my friends. That stuff is enjoyable, but more than that, it’s fulfilling work.
01:09:25:32 – 01:09:46:45
Agent Palmer
Otherwise, there wouldn’t be this podcast. There wouldn’t have been all those proxy cast episodes, and there wouldn’t have been the blog that started it all off. It’s cool to say I have a blog or I have a podcast, but it’s been the work to create the Palmer brand. You all know. It all hasn’t been easy, and it’s not always fun, but it’s always been fulfilling.
01:09:46:50 – 01:10:13:38
Agent Palmer
Hitting publish. That’s great. Happiness isn’t overrated. But are you fulfilled? It’s a key component to mental wellness. At least I believe it is. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode four. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for some more official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re listening, I encourage you to join the discussion.
01:10:13:52 – 01:10:40:15
Agent Palmer
Let me hear what you think. You can tweet the show at the Palmer Files. You can tweet myself at Agent Palmer and this week’s guest, Margo at Brooklyn Fit Chick. That’s chick with onesie. Emailed the show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And don’t forget to visit Margo’s site for all her podcast links. Brooklyn Fit Chick with two dot outcome.
01:10:40:20 – 01:11:43:53
Agent Palmer
You can also see what I’ve got going on at Agent palmer.com. Also, hear more of me in the meantime on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and my new gig as co-host of the podcast digest with Dan Lizette.
01:11:43:57 – 01:11:50:16
Agent Palmer
So, Margo, before we go, do you have one final question for me?
01:11:50:20 – 01:11:57:06
Margo Donohue
Yeah. So your favorite job you said was working at Arthur Treacher’s, right?
01:11:57:10 – 01:11:58:32
Agent Palmer
That’s correct.
01:11:58:37 – 01:12:02:28
Margo Donohue
Up there. Up there. What was your least favorite job?
01:12:02:32 – 01:12:38:01
Agent Palmer
Oh, It’s it’s really hard to answer because I remember, there was a string of, like, I did this for a week, and it didn’t work out. I want to say, I worked in a convenience store for about three days. And it’s odd that that was like the worst job I had because it was, it was a gas station, like, slash convenience store.
01:12:38:01 – 01:12:59:47
Agent Palmer
But before they built the convenience store, it was just a gas station. And as a young teen, hanging out with some friends at the gas station, which is what you do in a small town, I would help pump gas. So it just seemed like, oh, they put a convenience store in. My friends aren’t there anymore, but I should be able to do that.
01:12:59:56 – 01:13:09:41
Agent Palmer
It was the worst. I have no idea what was so bad about it. In hindsight, but I lasted three days before I was like, I can’t do this anymore.
01:13:09:46 – 01:13:11:28
Margo Donohue
Yeah, I can. I can see that.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).