Episode 93 features Jason Zapata, back for the third time. Why?
Well, we have discussed our passions and friendship, and now he’s returned to discuss his realization that it’s time to find some balance, because he works too hard. We discuss that at length, plus needs, wants, perceptions, boundaries, ambition, and more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Work Life Balance
- Needs v. Wants
- Corporate
- Perceptions
- Work from Home is Work from Anywhere
- Isolation
- White Collar Job
- Boundaries
- Job Security
- Quiet Quitting
- Propaganda
- Generations
- Ambition
- Five Year Plans
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:03 – 00:00:21:38
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. My Star Trek journey has begun with where I was and a post about the original series. Take a look in a book of the path Doctor Seuss took. And not only did Tony and I connect last episode, we’re using email for conversation like it used to be. This is The Palmer Files episode 93 with Jason Zapata back for the third time.
00:00:21:40 – 00:01:10:55
Agent Palmer
Why? Well, we have discussed our passions and our friendship. Now he’s returned to discuss his realization that it’s time to find some balance because he works too hard. We discussed that at length. Plus needs and wants, perceptions, boundaries, ambition and more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:10:59 – 00:01:32:25
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 93rd episode is my friend Jason Zapata. His third appearance on the podcast is to discuss his realization that he’s working too hard and needs to find balance. Not a little, but just balance. This episode contains a lot of generalizations.
00:01:32:34 – 00:01:56:42
Agent Palmer
While they may not be as necessary as rationalizations, they are important. In this case, they are important because Zapata didn’t want to name names and I don’t blame him. I suggested this episode as a way to expand on an ongoing conversation we’ve been having about work life balance, and this is not the culmination. This is just part of that ongoing conversation, one that is unlikely to stop.
00:01:56:47 – 00:02:19:57
Agent Palmer
You’ll hear us talk about circumstances that led to Zapata’s overworking. My attempts to help as a friend and therapist, his needs versus his wants, the way things are and where they may be going, and much, much more. But before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all contact information for Zapata and myself in the show notes.
00:02:20:04 – 00:02:41:18
Agent Palmer
You can find more information about my friend Jason Zapata at his website. Jason zapata.com. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent Palmer. Dot com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files@gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:41:23 – 00:02:46:08
Agent Palmer
Mr. Zapata, I’ve known you a very long time. I’ve known you to have many jobs.
00:02:46:09 – 00:02:46:39
Jason Zapata
Yes.
00:02:46:39 – 00:03:15:41
Agent Palmer
You’ve worked in retail and fast food. The service industry at large. And even in, call center and customer service beyond just, you know, waiting tables, as we say. And now you’re in a white collar job. And having known you through all of these right now, this moment in time or for the last year or two in time.
00:03:15:45 – 00:03:43:31
Agent Palmer
It’s probably the least balanced. I think you you’ve always been maybe overworked or worked too much. That’s always been you. You’ll always put in the extra hour. Yeah. Because you never feel comfortable. But I think this is the least balanced in terms of work life I’ve ever seen you. Because as your friend, I’ve had to call you out on it, and I’ve had to try and pull you out of it.
00:03:43:36 – 00:03:48:08
Jason Zapata
No, you’ve acted as a, as a therapist on multiple occasions.
00:03:48:13 – 00:03:51:29
Agent Palmer
It’s a new. It’s a new. It’s a new era for our friendship.
00:03:51:35 – 00:03:53:50
Jason Zapata
Yes, it has been.
00:03:53:54 – 00:04:02:29
Agent Palmer
Also, not only am I the therapist, I’ve tried to be, I’ve become the optimist in our relationship, which is uncharted territory.
00:04:02:31 – 00:04:05:49
Jason Zapata
Yeah.
00:04:05:54 – 00:04:26:38
Agent Palmer
You. The reason we’re recording this right now is because you have finally. I don’t know. I’m not talking to you. What? When I tell you, you don’t have a lack of balance. I’m losing the words already. Like when I tell you that the balance isn’t there. You have finally acknowledged it. I’ve been saying it for a while, but you.
00:04:26:38 – 00:04:45:24
Agent Palmer
You finally come to this conclusion. Yeah. On your own. I mean, I’ve been shouting it from the room, but you got to come do it on your own. I guess I have to ask, having been, like, kind of like shouting from the rooftops. Dude, come over like, let’s just hang out. You don’t have to work on Saturday.
00:04:45:29 – 00:04:50:38
Agent Palmer
What was it for you that really kind of made it be like, all right. No, I, I really don’t.
00:04:50:38 – 00:05:22:04
Jason Zapata
Have I think when you realize that no matter how much energy you’re expanding into something, the situation isn’t improving or you don’t feel that it’s going to net you the results that you’re needing anyway. I think then you’re you’re crazy if you don’t begin to question things. If you don’t say, okay, I think I need to take a step back and let me with what the what the fresh perspective here.
00:05:22:08 – 00:05:53:32
Jason Zapata
Focus on what I need to at this point to be a functional human being. And there’s, there’s, there’s a there’s a lot of caveats to all this. And I think a lot of this is needs to be grounded in brutal honesty. Okay. So I think you need to understand what your actual needs are, not your perceived needs. Not from an emotional perspective of you have to be able to stop and say, what are my basic needs?
00:05:53:36 – 00:05:59:41
Jason Zapata
And that is a much more difficult question than a lot of people you know, would perceive it to be.
00:05:59:42 – 00:06:20:22
Agent Palmer
But I would argue that your needs were being met when I was telling you that you need to come over and just hang out. I’m, I’m, I’m for a while and I would say at least a good 6 or 7 months, kind of like towards the tail end of the pandemic. I was like, dude, just come, come over.
00:06:20:35 – 00:06:48:37
Agent Palmer
Like just we’ll watch a movie, we’ll hang out, we’ll play magic, we’ll do whatever. Just come over and you were busy. Yeah, I’m working, I’m working, I’m working, and I, I, I think that, you know, you you need that. I don’t want to say you need me because it comes off in the wrong way. But you do like you you you I, I’m the I like I’ve become the person in your life.
00:06:48:38 – 00:07:08:03
Agent Palmer
It’s like, dude, let’s just not work today. Like. And I feel like in the simplest terms, that’s what we’re talking about right now. Like, I’m the one who’s like, dude, just come over, hang out. Like we do not work today. And because I, because I know I call you on the Saturday morning, like, how much, how many hours did you put in?
00:07:08:18 – 00:07:32:11
Agent Palmer
And I call you on a Sunday and I go, so how many hours? Like, I know what you’re doing and you’ve always been that way. Which is why when you talk about needs and wants and emotional needs, I go, I don’t know how this comprehend computes for you, not comprehend how it computes for you, because you’ve always been a worker like it’s okay, I’m I’m guilty of it too, right?
00:07:32:11 – 00:07:42:10
Agent Palmer
Like I am underemployed right now. I’m not unemployed, but I’m underemployed and I still manage to just like, oh, well, I’m going to write that thing. I’m going to do this podcast like, I we’re better.
00:07:42:10 – 00:07:59:46
Jason Zapata
Employment status as an intern in your ability to be industrious. That’s that’s a key difference people need to understand. Like you can be very industrious in doing things that, you know, develop yourself in terms of helping other people, in terms of, you know, just.
00:07:59:51 – 00:08:37:33
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, I will say this. A good chunk of my life for the last maybe five years has been being the balanced check for you, for staff, for other friends of like I have been. Yeah, not I haven’t had a salary full time job in this period, but I’ve also been making sure that those that are in those can see the other side of not just working all the time.
00:08:37:33 – 00:08:50:37
Jason Zapata
I’ll interrupt you there because I think what people don’t necessarily and like people outside of corporate need to understand something. And it goes back to the pandemic.
00:08:50:47 – 00:08:54:15
Agent Palmer
And is this you being in corporate or just a part of it?
00:08:54:20 – 00:09:19:05
Jason Zapata
Both. Okay. Yeah. So what happened is when the pandemic went down, certain jobs that allowed you to work remotely, the what everyone’s reaction to this was was, oh my God, this is really bad. We don’t know what’s going to happen. We don’t know how long this is going to last. What’s the impact going to be to my job, to this company?
00:09:19:05 – 00:09:44:38
Jason Zapata
My livelihood. So we as the working people, as the the staff for these these entities, we all had this very similar reactions like, oh, we need to really pull together. We need to do that much more. We’re already home. You know, we need to make sure that we we’re doing everything that we can to to be successful and to ensure that we keep our jobs.
00:09:44:42 – 00:10:10:32
Jason Zapata
For me in particular, at that point, I was, pretty much almost a new hire with this company that I work for. And my take with this was, oh, wow, I’m the low man on this totem pole. If something goes down, if this company struggles, who’s going to be the one of the first ones to leave? So my reaction to this and and I wasn’t just me.
00:10:10:32 – 00:10:33:57
Jason Zapata
I’ve had this discussion with many a coworker as well. Everyone was punching that much harder, you know, hitting that much more above their weight class, trying to make sure that, you know, that job was there, that they kept that job. So that was kind of where things started really going off the rails because it was a climate of crisis.
00:10:34:02 – 00:10:43:27
Jason Zapata
And in a crisis, some of the more logical decisions you would make, some of the more balanced choices you would, you know, want to make. That kind of goes out the window.
00:10:43:32 – 00:10:46:08
Agent Palmer
When was the last time you took a vacation?
00:10:46:12 – 00:10:53:44
Jason Zapata
I actually took a vacation last year. Now. Caveat yeah, the laptop went with me.
00:10:53:49 – 00:11:07:18
Agent Palmer
See? So there was it really okay. All right. But here’s the so the real question is can you really call it a vacation? You were working because because now you can work from anywhere. Yes. Because now you can take the office with you.
00:11:07:20 – 00:11:08:40
Jason Zapata
You can.
00:11:08:45 – 00:11:13:54
Agent Palmer
You were at the beach. You were there for what, five days. 4 or 5 days for.
00:11:13:59 – 00:11:16:38
Jason Zapata
For three days. Three nights. Four days.
00:11:16:43 – 00:11:25:14
Agent Palmer
How many of those days. Those four days that you were not in your apartment. Did you turn on the laptop for work for.
00:11:25:17 – 00:11:35:32
Jason Zapata
I would say during that vacation I did for days, too, I, you know, and it wasn’t extended long periods of time, but you would say, but.
00:11:35:32 – 00:11:40:28
Agent Palmer
But but here’s the thing. Yeah, it doesn’t have to be.
00:11:40:32 – 00:11:42:32
Jason Zapata
Nor should I be doing it. And you shouldn’t.
00:11:42:35 – 00:12:05:51
Agent Palmer
Do it in the beginning. But, but, but the idea is, you know. You may only turn it on and booted up and log in and look at your email for 30 minutes, but it don’t leave you the moment you shut it down. You’re still thinking about things you need to do while you’re on the beach, instead of.
00:12:05:56 – 00:12:11:41
Jason Zapata
The what you want to throw a needed decompression decompression to get the the most out of that.
00:12:11:43 – 00:12:37:00
Agent Palmer
Basically, if you look at work as an exercise, your heart rate doesn’t get to go down to normal ever, because you just keep writing the whole time. Yes, like maybe the first day was going down a mountain. So you got to coast, right? But then you opened it back up again and oh, okay, I got another little hill to climb and you’re doing that to yourself.
00:12:37:00 – 00:12:40:50
Agent Palmer
And I’ve been, as I’ve said, shouting hey, hey!
00:12:40:50 – 00:12:42:01
Jason Zapata
But yeah.
00:12:42:06 – 00:13:09:23
Agent Palmer
Let’s let’s not, let’s not or or my, my, the thing that kills me inside more than anything is you leave here at 930, I, I know you live five minutes away, but you leave here at 930. Go. I might I might open the laptop again. I don’t care if it’s Thursday, Wednesday, Friday, I don’t care. I never want to hear my friend who’s already put in a nine hour day, probably talk about going home and working more.
00:13:09:28 – 00:13:57:18
Jason Zapata
Yeah, it’s and it goes back to that early part where I said it’s what your the needs that you have and perceived in real so perceived them real. I’m going to break that down a bit for you when you get into this corporate environment there’s there’s certain perceptions that start to you start to accumulate there certain things, ways you start to see things that change you, ambition, the, the relationship you have with your fellow employees, you know, that that sense of belonging with them, that that sense of wanting to keep up with them, that sense of, you know, prestige, pride, all these things start to creep in.
00:13:57:23 – 00:14:22:36
Jason Zapata
So and not all of it’s bad. Like, I’m going to be very clear here. Some of this is you want you actually admire a lot of these people. You build up these relationships and you you want to it becomes a it your you find your your priorities subtly changing because you you’ve your value start to creep and change over time.
00:14:22:41 – 00:14:24:03
Jason Zapata
It’s a very slow process.
00:14:24:03 – 00:14:29:09
Agent Palmer
All right. But here’s my question to you. Yes, I’m going to be as bluntly honest as possible.
00:14:29:09 – 00:14:30:09
Jason Zapata
Yeah.
00:14:30:14 – 00:14:35:47
Agent Palmer
You’re a single man. Living in an apartment by yourself. No roommates.
00:14:35:52 – 00:14:36:35
Jason Zapata
No more I mean so.
00:14:36:35 – 00:14:58:59
Agent Palmer
At the moment because I’m a mile away, I’m basically the closest thing you’ve got to a roommate and you know, you could just not pick up the phone and avoid me as long as you want. I it’s it’s relevant. I know you made a face. It’s relevant and it’s relevant for this reason. Well, your values are changing and kind of congealing with quote unquote corporate.
00:14:59:04 – 00:15:23:39
Agent Palmer
Okay. I’m the one standing not so idly by going like, hey, hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey, hand in the air jumping jacks, the whole nine yards. And because I’m not a partner, I don’t live with you. I’m not your roommate. I’m not in your face all the time. And because you can let my call go to voicemail.
00:15:23:44 – 00:15:43:07
Agent Palmer
Even the times when I do talk to you. Because I’m still your friend. And I don’t want to be dating you all the time. We just talk about, well, you know, whatever we want to. And sometimes in that course, I don’t get to say, hey, but like, you need balance and and so I want to.
00:15:43:07 – 00:15:44:47
Jason Zapata
Say,
00:15:44:51 – 00:16:07:09
Agent Palmer
Some of this is unfortunately, your circumstance not just at work, but life. Because I think that if you did have a roommate, partner who lived with you, or if I was somehow closer to you, like, we were actually neighbors, and I could just check on you like Walker. You know what I mean? Like, you’re you’re isolated on your own.
00:16:07:09 – 00:16:30:56
Agent Palmer
So anything that happens with corporate, you can keep everybody else at an arm’s length as those things evolve, you and you move further away. So instead of every conversation ending with, so did you write any new poetry? Every maybe I asked you that on a monthly basis. So it the impetus was, you can blow me off and not hear about it for another four weeks.
00:16:31:01 – 00:16:39:48
Agent Palmer
And while it’s important to you, it’s not front of mind because everything else is kind of jumped onto it.
00:16:39:53 – 00:17:02:40
Jason Zapata
Yeah, and I think we’re having us bouncing a couple things back and forth just now. I can better elaborate on my my previous kind of comments. There. When you’re starting off like some people kind of get a good start to to life, to careers. Sure. Yeah. When you’re initially starting off with something like this with, with your white collar job, your.
00:17:02:40 – 00:17:03:07
Agent Palmer
First one.
00:17:03:07 – 00:17:21:25
Jason Zapata
By the way. Yeah. First real professional again, the previous one of the previous companies I was with, insurance companies, in Scranton, Pennsylvania. That was one of my first taste of that wasn’t really a true diner wall, white collar job, but it was pretty much on the cusp of that.
00:17:21:32 – 00:17:31:17
Agent Palmer
Okay, so this this got you over a pandemic aside? Yeah. This is your first taste of true white collar corporate business.
00:17:31:17 – 00:17:32:20
Jason Zapata
Yes.
00:17:32:25 – 00:17:45:29
Agent Palmer
Which, by the way, full disclosure, I have no real experience with. I mean, because I worked at a nonprofit for seven years, which is while it’s professional and it’s white collar, it’s not corporate yet.
00:17:45:29 – 00:17:48:04
Jason Zapata
They’re both very different entities and animals.
00:17:48:04 – 00:18:11:02
Agent Palmer
But that doesn’t mean I don’t. I can’t empathize and understand and and see for I mean, I guess this is the thing. If I have a superpower, it’s observation because I pulled some of like the stuff we’re talking about now. I pulled some of it out of you and I. Or maybe it’s I’m a therapist and I don’t maybe I should become a therapist, but like, I’ve pulled some of it out of you, despite the fact that you you almost didn’t want to talk about it.
00:18:11:07 – 00:18:36:55
Jason Zapata
Now because it’s it comes across two ways. One, it comes across like our first world problems thing, you know? So what you know, you you’re you. I am far from the only one. Your staff will be the first one. The chime in in agreement where there’s so many people who right now they’re struggling with this new situation, this new, new world order, but this new corporate world that we find ourselves in.
00:18:36:55 – 00:18:49:18
Jason Zapata
Sure. And the corporate world has changed after the pandemic because they now had you at your home, like the division between home and work was removed.
00:18:49:30 – 00:18:49:48
Agent Palmer
Yep.
00:18:50:01 – 00:19:22:28
Jason Zapata
So what that means is the they a lot of these companies and corporations, they were they got so accustomed to us working so much harder and that productivity being so much higher, they don’t want that to change. So when they look at you now, they’re looking at you at those test results and that, that, that they’re so accustomed to that level of, of production and wanting those same type of results.
00:19:22:33 – 00:19:42:49
Jason Zapata
It like with anything, government never goes back on what, what types of regulations that they have that you’ll never have less government, you’ll only have more and government never governs less is the same thing with corporate, corporate, never corporate slash like. They’re always going to find ways of getting more production out of you. You know, they’re never going to ask you to do less.
00:19:42:49 – 00:20:16:24
Jason Zapata
They’ll always expect more. Now it’s very difficult. And you brought this up before. And it’s a very good thing for everyone to keep in mind. Is prime boundaries, proper boundaries and that all boils down to where you’re at in terms of your needs. Now, one of the very one ring ish type of scenarios. And now you’re laughing. You’re smiling at me because you know, you know where I want to go at this.
00:20:16:29 – 00:20:40:14
Jason Zapata
It’s that you get a little smugly here because with with these companies know that if you’re going to remove those boundaries from yourself, if you’re going to say, okay, I’m going to work 60 hours a week, I’m going to do all this stuff. They’ll rely on you to do that. And by and large, you know, at the very least you’ll have a secure job because, hey, like, who wouldn’t who wouldn’t keep someone who does that?
00:20:40:16 – 00:21:14:02
Jason Zapata
It only makes sense to do that. However, the long term ramifications to yourself are terrible. You cannot be a functioning human being and do that now in the short term. And I’ve made this analogy to you before. If you screwed up your life and made some rather poor career financial decisions, this arrangement as potentially so spiritually sanguine, eating as it is, it will cover that ground for you.
00:21:14:06 – 00:21:23:36
Jason Zapata
So that’s where it goes back to that needs thing I mentioned earlier. It’s it’s a very it’s almost chemo for bad, financial decisions.
00:21:23:36 – 00:22:00:21
Agent Palmer
Well I mean that’s fair accepting that. And you and I talked about this and we’re going to keep saying that phrase over and over again because what people are hearing now is us trying to put, three years of conversations into one episode. But the thing about it is, first of all, you need somebody who cares about you without having a financial stake, and I what I mean by that is like, I, I there are conversations that I have with you that I don’t know, even if I’m being as truthful as possible.
00:22:00:25 – 00:22:22:23
Agent Palmer
I could have with staff who’s at the moment more of the bread winner than for for us, than than I am. I still bring in some money, but I think the conversation is different. However, I’ve experienced what you’re talking about with her. She works from home. She actually worked from home before the pandemic. She’s always worked from home.
00:22:22:28 – 00:22:39:21
Agent Palmer
And so I’ve seen it with her. I’ve seen it with you. You’re not. And then there are about 1 or 2 other friends who I see it with, and I, I call you all out on it. I still call you all out like you, you know? You know, if you need to work on the weekend to make it work, then it’s broken.
00:22:39:26 – 00:23:18:04
Agent Palmer
Like there’s this. I’m sorry. Like, I don’t care how corporate you are. I don’t care if there’s a president listening to this right now. By the way, the president’s not working on the weekend to make it work. And if they are, they’re not doing it 26 weekends a year. And, you know, that’s that’s just the nature of problem that are not communicated well, going upward now, episode 50 of this show was in a conversation with my mother, who has done consulting specifically regarding internal marketing for basically my entire life.
00:23:18:09 – 00:23:52:46
Agent Palmer
And so I’m very interested and probably a bit more knowledgeable than most about how problems are not always well communicated from your level upward. It’s just you’re either afraid for your job, your supervisor, or their supervisor is not doesn’t seem open enough, and you’re not going to you’re not going to just willingly go, hey, this is broken to somebody who only kind of maybe seems like they’re receptive to that.
00:23:52:57 – 00:24:16:55
Agent Palmer
And so what ends up happening is I talk to you out of concern. And even though you’ve come to this point where you’ve realized that you want more balance and you need more balance, and this is where wants and needs comes in, because you’ve I think you’ve I think you’ve crossed the threshold where needing the balance is now a piece of it.
00:24:17:03 – 00:24:26:06
Agent Palmer
You don’t just want the balance, but there’s nowhere for you to go with that. You and I can have this conversation, but there’s nowhere for you to go with that.
00:24:26:15 – 00:24:36:05
Jason Zapata
The two spheres, because you know, I’ve been on your podcast previously. We’ve it’s always been about creative pursuits.
00:24:36:10 – 00:24:36:48
Agent Palmer
Geekiness.
00:24:36:48 – 00:24:58:28
Jason Zapata
Geekiness, nerdiness. That’s a huge part of my life. The creative side is a huge part of my life. The two, the two sides. You can’t have these two things be passions and pursue them both. That’s the problem. The problem becomes one never takes precedence over the other.
00:24:58:33 – 00:25:14:34
Agent Palmer
And at the moment, your corporate need for success to overcome any mistakes you’ve made in the past is the more commanding sphere. At the moment. The driving sphere, if you will, for your day to day.
00:25:14:39 – 00:25:48:02
Jason Zapata
Yes, and it’s okay if that’s a temporary thing. The only thing is when you start to look at the situation honestly, in terms of, you know, you you’re there week to week, month to month, year, the year you look at how these, these corporations are handling things, the ongoing issues with inflation, quiet quitting, the, the great resignation, all this work related upheaval there.
00:25:48:02 – 00:26:10:58
Jason Zapata
There isn’t a path to that right now, unfortunately. And I you know, I’ve talked to other people who’ve been doing this for years. I know people who have started jobs like this and have gone an entire year without taking a day off, didn’t even take a vacation, that that’s how far it goes. And again, it’s what are you getting out of it?
00:26:11:01 – 00:26:23:22
Jason Zapata
Make what does does this make sense to you? Are you is it helping you meet your goals? Yes or no? Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes you. A little poisoning from the One Ring goes a long way.
00:26:23:22 – 00:26:48:20
Agent Palmer
But with the exception that there are a lot of people that don’t have defined secondary goals for you. Okay, as I remind you, on at least a monthly basis, I want to get another book of poetry out the door, which, by the way, is at least 18 months late compared to because you and I, even when you didn’t live near me.
00:26:48:20 – 00:27:18:33
Agent Palmer
We talked on New Years about what our goals for the year would be. Yeah, the second book of poetry is 18 months late. It is just as we, as we as we sit here right now. I mean, because this the other thing you were always going to be on my podcast again after the second episode, but it was supposed to be to talk about the process and the launch of your second book of poetry, which, as we sit here, is still months away now.
00:27:18:42 – 00:27:42:23
Agent Palmer
Is it closer now? Because you’ve come to this realization and you’re going to maybe I don’t know what the you’re going to hard quit. You’re going to Fred Flintstone it a little more often that when 5:00 happens, what? Okay. Time to shut down like you’re going to Fred Flintstone did a little bit more often, but that’s only because you’ve come to this realization in the last little bit.
00:27:42:28 – 00:27:48:34
Agent Palmer
And you were doing the the Fred Flintstone Bell was going off, man, and you just kept plowing right through.
00:27:48:36 – 00:28:07:51
Jason Zapata
Yeah. Well, with, especially with, the particular job I work and I’m an insurance, I can say that much commercial insurance, that’s the the understanding is built in that this is a 50 hour, 55 hour a week gig. That’s. The salary is wonderful. No, that’s fine, that’s fine. It’s all.
00:28:07:56 – 00:28:20:25
Agent Palmer
Okay. But let’s put it into perspective for a moment. It may. It may supposed to be a 55 hour a week job. Are you are you putting in 55 hours a week?
00:28:20:29 – 00:28:47:46
Jason Zapata
Well, I’ll tell you what. The the first year of me being a commercial underwriter. Now, the position I have with this same company was a little less. I was just an assistant. Yeah. So expectations much lower. You know, you don’t have the responsibility that you have now. Funny enough dude. And just to kind of put a pause on this particular thread, every time I stop and I think about the person that I am, I know that, yeah, right now.
00:28:47:46 – 00:29:17:45
Jason Zapata
And the fact that Jason Zapata five years ago with a $14 million book of business, I’m talking to presidents of of insurance companies and agencies and, you know, going over, you know, these these accounts with these people and the stakes involved and Presidents Club and all this very corporate minutia. And I kind of laugh because this is not something I would have ever envisioned.
00:29:17:49 – 00:29:24:54
Jason Zapata
So it’s in very, almost disassociated lives in terms of that.
00:29:25:08 – 00:29:26:12
Agent Palmer
That’s fine. But all of the.
00:29:26:14 – 00:29:27:48
Jason Zapata
Best way I can kind of put it, if.
00:29:27:48 – 00:29:40:19
Agent Palmer
The average is supposed to be 55, even if it’s known going in that the salary for a 40 hour a week job is going to be more like 55. I think you’re you’ve got to be closer to 65.
00:29:40:23 – 00:29:50:34
Jason Zapata
At certain weeks. It’s real bad. Like I think. And again, this is this just because a lot of this is because it’s a I’m a first year underwriter. So there’s som.
00:29:50:44 – 00:30:29:25
Agent Palmer
But but it’s but it’s yeah it’s it’s cumulative to the work from home and the expectations and the what I’m going to call a paranoia of being let go. So there’s a little I mean let’s, let’s call it what it is. It’s a little more carrot and stick. Right. I don’t have to give you a raise, or I can give you the minimum raise because you’re so afraid of not being able to find another job or, you know, finding work at all that you’re that’s that’s the stick.
00:30:29:25 – 00:30:31:47
Agent Palmer
Well, now, so you’re going to work the 60 hours.
00:30:31:51 – 00:30:35:35
Jason Zapata
I would say that that was during the pandemic. Certainly, sir.
00:30:35:47 – 00:30:57:05
Agent Palmer
But I’ll tell you this, reading the headlines and some of the articles and look for anybody listening to this when you read articles about quiet quitting and the Great Resignation, do so with a grain of salt, because a lot of that is corporate trying to propaganda the stick a little bit more to get you to work the sector.
00:30:57:05 – 00:31:19:59
Agent Palmer
Yeah, some of that’s true, but in most cases they’re all specifically unique. And what happened with the Great Resignation and quiet quitting was a lot of things more akin to five companies all at once said, you have to come back to the office. And people were like, no, I don’t. And so they quit because they could go somewhere else.
00:31:19:59 – 00:31:36:17
Jason Zapata
They could. And some of but, I also think a lot of this is the era of the Golden Watch and, the, the big retirement parties, and this is all coming to this is pretty much almost already ended, if not last like that.
00:31:36:19 – 00:32:00:00
Agent Palmer
That’s all gone. Also, I want to tell you something. My favorite read and I didn’t hear enough of this, which bothers me, but my favorite read of the situation about quite quitting the Great Resignation and all this stuff that happened when people were told they have to come back to the office, was that middle managers didn’t know how to do their job.
00:32:00:01 – 00:32:01:25
Jason Zapata
I remember you saying this. Yeah.
00:32:01:29 – 00:32:22:25
Agent Palmer
Without literally seeing you in the office. And to me, that just means that middle management is not quite as important as it used to be, because middle management, okay, you and I are on the younger spectrum of Gen-X. We’re on the older spectrum of millennials, depending on how you define all that stuff.
00:32:22:30 – 00:32:35:50
Jason Zapata
The correct. And now I was told this the correct, label. Oh yes or designation. There you go. Let’s let’s be proper here. The correct designation for us is that we are geriatric millennials.
00:32:35:50 – 00:32:48:24
Agent Palmer
Technically, but we’re also the Oregon Trail generation. And, yeah, the point is it was never going to work out for us anyway. We are a forgotten generation, just like Gen X, for that matter. Well, it’s.
00:32:48:24 – 00:33:18:40
Jason Zapata
Not so much do. We were forgotten and we actually had a conversation about this none too long ago. We are both saying it. We are. We are trapped between two different, periods in time. Yeah. Like we in terms of our youth that that explosion in terms of technology and cultural events that happened when we were young just changed so much of what everyday life meant to us going forward.
00:33:18:40 – 00:33:46:42
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah, but all I’m saying is that we, we have this, this idea that, look, I love my parents and I love your parents, but that generation ahead of us indoctrinated us to a certain expectation. Oh, yeah, I don’t think I like it, but let’s be real for a moment, okay? Where you and I are right now in our professional capacities.
00:33:46:46 – 00:33:50:35
Agent Palmer
Do you believe we needed to go to college to get where we are?
00:33:50:49 – 00:33:51:25
Jason Zapata
No.
00:33:51:25 – 00:34:16:18
Agent Palmer
And and yet. And yet that was the line we we were we were under the expectation that if we went to college, we would be eminently more hirable. We both just have bachelor’s degrees. Okay. And I know people with masters that are just struggling as much as we are, which is why anytime anybody’s like, hey, you think you want to go ahead?
00:34:16:23 – 00:34:18:00
Agent Palmer
No, of course not.
00:34:18:02 – 00:34:25:46
Jason Zapata
Now that’s not to say that if it was financially viable, like oh God, I would go back I would I.
00:34:25:48 – 00:34:28:33
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but you miss you miss academia bracket TV.
00:34:28:39 – 00:34:30:18
Jason Zapata
Yes, yes.
00:34:30:23 – 00:34:52:52
Agent Palmer
So here’s my question. Right. You’ve come to this conclusion that you need you need some balance. Yeah. It’s not me shouting from the rooftops that you should and that I think you’re doing a little too much. It’s. You’ve come to this on your own. What was on the other side of the scale? What tipped it? It clearly wasn’t me yelling at you for two years.
00:34:52:57 – 00:35:06:29
Agent Palmer
But, like, what was it in your own life? Was it like the book’s not done yet? Was it? You know, just you you you rediscovered other hobbies. Like, what was it? That kind of tipped you back?
00:35:06:33 – 00:35:37:04
Jason Zapata
Diminishment? In terms of my, and to in several, in several ways, I think that I started noticing, I was reading less, that was affecting mine tonight. Like my vocabulary, my ability to have conversations. I wasn’t traveling as much anymore. I like to travel. I like to go to Philly and just hang out in Philly, on the every off weekend, you know, stop doing that.
00:35:37:09 – 00:36:00:35
Jason Zapata
Was not writing, and that’s a huge part of who I am. So these things are central in terms of the core of my being. And if I’m not doing this and I’m making something else, a part of that is this thing of an end in of itself, not just the wage, but the process.
00:36:00:35 – 00:36:01:12
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:36:01:17 – 00:36:29:38
Jason Zapata
Does this have value? And I stopped and I thought about that and like, okay, I do like what I do. However, I don’t like it to the extent I do not like it to the extent where precludes all other things. Okay. And that is when I realized that, okay, we’re going to have to figure out a way to kind of have some type of walls in place here.
00:36:29:38 – 00:36:50:46
Agent Palmer
I will say this. Okay. For anybody listening, you haven’t figured you haven’t figured it out yet. You haven’t quite figured it out. But I will tell you, you are a different person now that you’ve kind of come to the looked over the edge and and stepped back from it. Okay? You are a very different person.
00:36:50:46 – 00:36:54:00
Jason Zapata
I’m not a little bit, but I can see it from here. Yeah.
00:36:54:00 – 00:37:15:00
Agent Palmer
I was gonna say I see you a little bit more often. You know, we we talk a little bit more often. I mean, here’s the thing. You are, as my friend, very proud. And you don’t want to get in anybody’s way, and you don’t want to overstay your welcome. And despite the fact that I tell you, you could never overstay your welcome, you always, you know, and that’s fine.
00:37:15:00 – 00:37:39:39
Agent Palmer
Okay. But you and I have been more sociable as far as just talking, even just talking on the phone. Right. Because at the height of your what I’ll call darkness, your corporate darkness, I couldn’t get you on the phone for more than five minutes, even at 7:00 at night without you being like, I got to get back.
00:37:39:39 – 00:37:48:49
Jason Zapata
To what is the thing you would call me, right? And what noises would you hear? You would hear Microsoft, Microsoft Teams notifications popping off. You’d hear a phone.
00:37:48:49 – 00:37:53:20
Agent Palmer
Call, you know, you you’re hiding it from me. Like, even if you tried. Like, I know the sound.
00:37:53:20 – 00:38:33:30
Jason Zapata
Yeah. You hear them? They’re right next door there. You hear in the room next to you all day. So. Yes. And, that’s. But that goes to show how, hectic and how much the strangest thing I find to all of this and every day I laugh at it. The thing that makes me laugh is that for people who are, you know, their value is so subjective and sometimes so much reduced by, you know, these CEOs, these CFOs, these these runners of these organizations.
00:38:33:35 – 00:39:04:59
Jason Zapata
We have so much input and influence. Like, if I were to go gonzo tomorrow, I just pop the cork went crazy. I again, I’m, I have access to over $14 million worth of accounts if I win all like Tyler Durden on this I the amount of damage I could do is is insane. So it’s all it’s this weird trust that they have in you and it’s it’s real weird relationship.
00:39:05:03 – 00:39:08:05
Jason Zapata
Yeah. Is it this? Yeah.
00:39:08:18 – 00:39:56:08
Agent Palmer
This is the thing that gets me though, right? All of that’s true. But if they could find somebody to do your job for $10,000 less, they would get rid of you in a heartbeat. I honestly believe looking at the landscape and having looked for a job and having seen what the require, now I’m in. I’m not in insurance, but just generally looking at what the requirements are and what the pay scale is in the fields that I look at, it appears that for the most part, your value is that you can function at a certain pay rate, at the very least when it when I’m talking, when I’m looking at corporate gigs, that’s the
00:39:56:08 – 00:40:00:11
Agent Palmer
way it feels. That’s the way it looks from the outside in.
00:40:00:16 – 00:40:27:22
Jason Zapata
What I will say is, and this is one of my theories about what would happen as a result of the pandemic, with everyone kind of realizing that working remotely was actually viable. Yeah. And and this is also part of what kind of fed into that whole paranoia. Was that okay, they know that we can work remotely where else can they get people to work remotely from?
00:40:27:27 – 00:40:46:35
Jason Zapata
And that opens a whole new can of worms, because I don’t think what people realize. And there are so hot to trot about this remote access and remote working thing is going for in the future. Now, the insurance industry is a bit different because there’s a skill level there. You got to have a certain level of experience designations, licensing.
00:40:46:39 – 00:41:12:10
Jason Zapata
It’s a much more complicated animal. But that’s not to say that, you know, other companies abroad won’t get to a point where they can have employees that can provide that type of expertise. You know, the world is developing India, China, all these other countries have huge populations. They’re going to get there. It’s going to be relatively short, and that’s going to change things all over again.
00:41:12:10 – 00:41:38:22
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s funny because I in an industry in marketing where it’s already changed. Yeah. Like why would somebody hire me for, let’s say, a medium salary at like $36,000 a year? And look, I’m, we’re not in a major market in that that’s the same job I’m talking about right now in a major market would be like 70. But like outside of a major market, it’s about 36 to $46,000 a year.
00:41:38:27 – 00:42:03:29
Agent Palmer
But why would you hire me when you can get a contract at an agency for about a third of that, or just hire some random dude on Fiverr over and over again to do it? And I’ve seen it and look, I’m not saying people on Fiverr don’t do good work, and I’m not saying agencies don’t do good work, but there’s something to be said for somebody that speaks for you and that knows your company intimately.
00:42:03:33 – 00:42:48:39
Agent Palmer
And that’s one of the reasons that, at the very least, from a marketing standpoint, I think in-house marketing is important also because you need some even if you go to an agency, you need somebody who could speak the language. I and but but the point is all of this change and we haven’t really seen anything happen. You know, I will say this one of the weird things, especially not being employed, and looking at the great resignation and quiet quitting and the work from home movement or the work back to the office movement, all of these things, nothing’s actually changed as far insofar as the way things run.
00:42:48:43 – 00:43:11:59
Agent Palmer
Some people pandemic started, some people had to work from home, some people couldn’t. After the pandemic or whatever we call this now. Some people have gone back and some people have gone to a hybrid model, but nothing has changed. And what I mean by that is you even if the pandemic had never happened, would have still been worried.
00:43:11:59 – 00:43:28:35
Agent Palmer
In your first year as a white collar corporate employee, you would have been trying to put in that 60 hours or 65 hours just to make sure you were covering your butt, because always as the last hire in, you’re the first fire out potentially. And so that would have never changed.
00:43:28:42 – 00:43:36:34
Jason Zapata
Well, it’s also the you you just want to do good. It’s a it’s a big opportunity and okay, stop stop.
00:43:36:39 – 00:44:02:09
Agent Palmer
Not everybody wants to do good something. No no no. Let’s let’s be altruistic for a moment. Generally speaking, you’re a good guy. And I do not believe that on a whole, it can be that much. More than 50% of the people who want to do a good job, and the people who are just there for a paycheck, I would be I if people were being truly honest and we’ll never know the real numbers.
00:44:02:09 – 00:44:10:29
Agent Palmer
I have to imagine it’s closer to 5050 of who’s really there to do a good job and who’s really there to get a paycheck. I’ll, I’ll.
00:44:10:34 – 00:44:42:49
Jason Zapata
I’ll say this. I’ll say from my experience in the previous gig before my, my most recent, you know, promotion and job, when I was back in Scranton, a lot of the things that I would see is there’s almost like a beat cop mentality where someone who’s been there for so long, they’ve seen it all at a certain point, if they have reached roadblocks in terms of their development, they get a very jaded, world weary, you know, take took to set things.
00:44:42:49 – 00:44:46:33
Agent Palmer
But but they also get comfortable.
00:44:46:38 – 00:45:19:41
Jason Zapata
If you do get comfortable. But I think that when you have people, when you have companies looking for the constant growth, the the and that, it’s, it’s it’s unattainable. You cannot have constant growth, but yet they seek it nevertheless. How they get to their is what’s becoming the problem. Because what people don’t want to realize is no matter how technologically developed you get, you need a human element.
00:45:19:41 – 00:45:41:52
Jason Zapata
You need people to be able to cover these certain functions for your company. My particular instance right now, from what I’m seeing, is just the sheer amount of growing pains from people making assumptions that, oh, well, we’re going to get there, you know, you know, where we will we will find a way to make this this particular model that we have work.
00:45:41:57 – 00:46:21:46
Jason Zapata
And what I’m seeing is that’s not happening. It’s unfortunately, they have this ambition and sometimes it’s good you don’t want, the work for for anyone. It’s unambitious who doesn’t want their company to grow and be successful. You know, that’s a good thing. You want you want that because if you want to grow and be successful, too, the problem becomes when they don’t take the proper steps to do that, if they’re not hiring enough people, if there’s issues with their technology, if they’re not adopting best practices, it just makes that entire process so drudgery and just difficult.
00:46:21:50 – 00:46:31:16
Agent Palmer
But people on a whole don’t want to change best practices because that’s the way it was done. That’s going to be the argument. It’s the way.
00:46:31:20 – 00:46:32:22
Jason Zapata
It’s the way we’ve always.
00:46:32:22 – 00:46:54:56
Agent Palmer
Done it, the way we’ve always done it, which is all which is which is code for so many things. Right? It’s code for we don’t want to change. It’s code for. Well, that could get me fired like because, you know, when processes change and get optimized, you either need more people or less people or different people. And so that’s the way we have always done.
00:46:54:56 – 00:46:59:00
Agent Palmer
It is a way to ensure that some of that change doesn’t happen.
00:46:59:13 – 00:47:01:43
Jason Zapata
Like the status quo works for some people.
00:47:01:47 – 00:47:28:31
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know, I, I have to ask you, what are you going to do to find the balance? Are you are you going to shut the computer down to five, like, is that is is it going, you know, because I’m look, I’m on the outside. I don’t see your day to day. Right. So is it going to be working a little bit harder from 9 to 5.
00:47:28:42 – 00:47:58:43
Agent Palmer
And I’m you know they’re easy numbers right. 830 to 4 3835 whatever it is, are you going to work a little bit harder in that time so that when whatever that bell rings, you can go home so, you know, you work a little bit harder 9 to 5 during Monday through Friday. So you never have to go or so it’s two weeks out of the 50 that you’re working on the Saturday instead of 20, like, what are you going to do to ensure that you can get to that balance?
00:47:58:48 – 00:48:22:43
Jason Zapata
It’s putting in the hours during the midweek, I feel is going to be the best way of getting the most in fulfillment out of my life, because, face it, the weekends are the time where you can do a lot of the fun things that you need to do. It’s also the fact that as a second year underwriter, a lot of the work I’ve already put in is paying dividends.
00:48:22:43 – 00:48:38:32
Jason Zapata
Now, I don’t have to re underwrite, you know, a lot of these accounts. You know, I’ve already done all the heavy lifting. So that helps to I also think it means making hard choices in terms of development, like, you know, you again, I.
00:48:38:32 – 00:48:54:32
Agent Palmer
Mean, it’s the thing you and I skipped over this completely. But from your last job and the first year at this job, you were taking so many courses and certifications. So that’s that’s your 5 to 10. That’s basically a second job for you for a good portion of.
00:48:54:32 – 00:49:01:03
Jason Zapata
That in terms of the designations that I have, it’s pretty much the equivalent of a second going back to school again. Oh yeah.
00:49:01:04 – 00:49:09:49
Agent Palmer
It’s a certification every so often. And and you, you got to where you are and you kind of put a, a pin in that, so to speak.
00:49:09:49 – 00:49:29:07
Jason Zapata
It would have been no way to sustain that. But, especially when you’re in a first year position as an underwriter and it’s just that saying where you you’re only wise when you admit that, you know, so very little. Yeah. So much relevant now and this in that, in that moment. But I will.
00:49:29:07 – 00:49:49:36
Agent Palmer
Say like, do you schedule time out like are you, are you going to be rigid with yourself and be like, nope, it’s it’s 6:00, it’s dinner time. And it’s seven. I’m going to. Right. Or at seven I’m going to paint my minis, or at seven I’m going to go over to Palmer’s house and watch a movie. You know what I mean?
00:49:49:36 – 00:49:55:54
Agent Palmer
Like, are you are you setting up a strict schedule with yourself to kind of try and turn it around?
00:49:55:59 – 00:50:16:52
Jason Zapata
I have to okay, I, I don’t have a choice. And this is something that I don’t know if I’ve. I’ve already brought this up to you or not. Just with some of the more recent developments that happened, you know, it’s being, very disappointed with the outcome of certain things at the end of the year.
00:50:16:57 – 00:50:40:11
Jason Zapata
I was to a point of burnout where I can’t sleep properly. Like, I keep finding myself waking up weird hours later. It’s not so much that I can’t go to sleep is the fact that my brain re re reinitialize is starts kicking in at like 230 3:00 in the morning.
00:50:40:11 – 00:51:09:54
Agent Palmer
So is do you use the lack of sleep and the we’ll call it an unhealthy sleep schedule. Do you use that as the I don’t know, the, the, the goal is I want balance. So that stops happening. Like, is that now or. I mean, because here’s the thing you have at your disposal many options, right? Like publishing the second book of poetry could be the impetus.
00:51:09:58 – 00:51:29:03
Agent Palmer
A good night’s sleep could be the impetus. Getting back to the novel that my best friend won’t shut up about could be the impetus, right? Like there are many options. Are they are is it is it that they’ve all coalesced into one thing? I want to get the book done and I want to sleep at night. Or is it just one above all else?
00:51:29:07 – 00:51:58:37
Jason Zapata
I would say the the issue. The breaking point for me was to stress levels with the end of this year and, the lack of fulfillment of that year. Without going too far into details, I had different expectations for what would happen with me completing a year, and those expectations were met. So now it’s a question of, okay, I have a good job.
00:51:58:42 – 00:52:05:29
Jason Zapata
It’s not quite giving me what I would have preferred given the sacrifice. Yeah. And the amount of time that was invested.
00:52:05:29 – 00:52:11:47
Agent Palmer
Okay. But going back to what we talked about for a good portion of this, they don’t see that as sacrifice. That’s the.
00:52:11:52 – 00:52:17:17
Jason Zapata
That’s exactly that is an issue that is you says that new normal is the perfect phrase.
00:52:17:17 – 00:52:21:53
Agent Palmer
For that. So so here’s my question.
00:52:21:58 – 00:52:38:03
Agent Palmer
The next time I have you on will probably be I mean, I can have you on for any number of things. You’re my best friend. We’ve talked a lot. We’ve had a podcast without recording it for the last 20 years. Okay. But the next time I was supposed to have you on was supposed to be when.
00:52:38:03 – 00:52:38:43
Jason Zapata
We launched.
00:52:38:48 – 00:52:54:29
Agent Palmer
When you launched the second book of poetry. So my question is, will that actually be the next time you’re on in 4 or 6 months, or will it be for some other reason, and the book of poetry will still be in or, you know.
00:52:54:34 – 00:53:14:33
Jason Zapata
Well, going into that, I’d say it’s there’s a lot of life happening right now. You, were kind enough to introduce me to a realtor that you are, associated with. And I know I haven’t really brought this up, but one of the the ongoing threads you and I have had for a while now.
00:53:14:35 – 00:53:15:17
Agent Palmer
Five year plan.
00:53:15:22 – 00:53:23:28
Jason Zapata
The five year plan. Getting, getting, getting things in order. Always a five year plan. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, when you finish, that’s the next five year plan.
00:53:23:33 – 00:53:28:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But you, you wait two years and go. Yeah, but it’s still my five year plan.
00:53:28:35 – 00:54:05:00
Jason Zapata
Yeah. It’s an ever ongoing five year plan. But, you know, finally settling down, you know, getting getting a home. Yeah. You know, and, that again goes into why you do this type of thing. You don’t do, you don’t go put yourself through something like this unless there’s something you’re trying to desperately achieve. Yeah, yeah. It’s a state where you can, you know, have some satisfaction and, you know, and it’s just society exist and there’s certain shames that exist, which society?
00:54:05:00 – 00:54:28:44
Jason Zapata
That kind of force people to evolve. So I do think at a certain point, people have expectations. And I think those expectations are a good thing. I think it’s it’s good that people should be motivated to try to, you know, do more for themselves and do better for themselves. So that’s where that weird, Venn diagram of needs, wants and expectations.
00:54:28:55 – 00:54:47:48
Jason Zapata
All those circles start overlapping, and it gets a little odd and weird as to what’s actually overlapping. Yeah. So it’s like you have on the one side that, you know, the ambition, the camaraderie, the. But and you have the actual need of like, I want a home, I want I want to be able to have the, you know.
00:54:47:49 – 00:55:15:45
Agent Palmer
But as we’ve established earlier on, this is not an overnight thing. I like the fact that I can tell you something like, you got to come do it on your own, and you have to want to make that change. Right. It’s it’s it’s not like drinking and smoking and addiction, but at the same time it is. Oh, because you cannot make that change that somebody tells you about it.
00:55:15:45 – 00:55:17:35
Agent Palmer
You have to want to make it for yourself.
00:55:17:35 – 00:55:22:59
Jason Zapata
Well, what’s the smoking in an addiction? I was smoking, drinking. It’s addictions. What are addictions? They’re habits.
00:55:23:11 – 00:55:23:55
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:55:24:00 – 00:55:46:48
Jason Zapata
You get into a habit of doing something, you know, and it’s very hard to break. It’s. It’s hard to stop. You get obsessed, you know, and it’s like, okay, that’s the first step. What’s the first step to, you know, acknowledgment. Acknowledgment. Yes. I was like, yeah, Holy shit. I’m I’m completely obsessed. Like this. This is this is something I have put so much time into and.
00:55:46:48 – 00:55:47:49
Agent Palmer
Something needs to change.
00:55:47:49 – 00:56:04:35
Jason Zapata
Yeah. To the preclusion of, like, almost all of us. And it’s just like, okay, I, we needed to we need to change some things here in order for this to, to make sense.
00:56:04:39 – 00:56:30:41
Agent Palmer
Don’t knock rationalization. Where would we be without. I don’t know anyone who can get through the day without 2 or 3 juicy rationalizations. They’re more important than sex. This is a quote from Jeff Goldblum’s character Michael in The Big Chill, and it’s important to note that my friend Zapata had a realization that he needs more balance. But the rationalization he is based on a daily basis have enabled him to keep working to get to the overworking space he is currently in.
00:56:30:46 – 00:56:56:40
Agent Palmer
Don’t knock rationalization, but do understand that they aren’t the same as realizations. Rationalizations can enable us to enable ourselves, but not always in a healthy way. Still, don’t knock them. They allow us to move forward and that’s what we all must do. I am happy to provide any support I can to my friend, as you have heard, and those friends that are around me in the same circumstance.
00:56:56:45 – 00:57:16:40
Agent Palmer
Sometimes it’s about calling them out, sometimes it’s just about being able to talk about what they like so they can get some separation from work. But I want to be there for them. And if you know people in similar circumstances, try to be there for them to and also try to think of the last juicy rationalization you had.
00:57:16:45 – 00:57:42:37
Agent Palmer
Was it a healthy rationalization or was it unhealthy? This kind of rationalization may lead to realization and you may just be better for it. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 93. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact myself and my guest, Jason Zapata in the show notes.
00:57:42:42 – 00:58:01:19
Agent Palmer
There you can find more information about my friend at Jason zapata.com and email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. Remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:58:01:23 – 00:58:14:55
Unknown
You.
00:58:15:00 – 00:58:33:04
Unknown
See?
00:58:33:08 – 00:58:42:52
Unknown
Me.
00:58:42:56 – 00:58:45:22
Agent Palmer
All right. Jason, do you have one final question for me?
00:58:45:33 – 00:58:55:32
Jason Zapata
I do. Don’t you feel grateful that you have a friend who can point out your terrible taste in movies?
00:58:55:37 – 00:58:59:04
Agent Palmer
So.
00:58:59:09 – 00:59:12:04
Agent Palmer
The thing is, I don’t think we need anything to discuss, right? Like, I don’t I don’t think we need a reason to argue. I think we would manufacture a reason to argue.
00:59:12:06 – 00:59:16:18
Jason Zapata
We’re nerds with that. This is the whole. This is the whole thing. This is what we do.
00:59:16:18 – 00:59:35:58
Agent Palmer
And it truly wouldn’t matter if we were arguing about Star Wars or now that I’m into track Star Trek, it doesn’t matter. Because for you and me, yes, we know what it comes back to. Oh, yeah, always. Always and forever. Yes, always. Tom Bombadil.
00:59:36:03 – 00:59:37:06
Jason Zapata
That’s where it started.
00:59:37:06 – 01:00:12:29
Agent Palmer
It’s where it started. It’s never go away. It will never disappear. Because even though I will acknowledge I love those films, I will still say, where’s Tom? Okay, so that will never go away. Yes. However, I think that on a whole, one of the things that makes our friendship unique is that we spend a lot of time apart for best friends, which means you see quite a few movies that I don’t.
01:00:12:31 – 01:00:37:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah, and I see quite a few movies that you don’t. And we’re not talking like just new releases. You went to the movies and then I went to the movie. I’m just talking like in general over, like the past probably, you know, ten years, the amount of movies we’ve seen, we’ve both seen and the amount of movies we both haven’t seen is, is probably more that I’ve seen one and you haven’t and you’ve seen one, and I have know that’s just the way it lines up.
01:00:37:40 – 01:00:48:18
Agent Palmer
And it allows us to have vastly different perspectives on the things we have seen together. Now. There are some tropes within our argument.
01:00:48:18 – 01:00:51:20
Jason Zapata
Oh yes.
01:00:51:25 – 01:01:19:49
Agent Palmer
And there’s this will be coming out in the spring ish of 2023. I can state unequivocally that I cannot wait to sit in the theater next to you for Indiana Jones five. I cannot wait. You hated Crystal skull so bad, so bad that I am so excited to see the fedora on the big screen with you for five.
01:01:19:54 – 01:01:41:08
Jason Zapata
I hope it’s good. Like, look, no one, anyone who’s a fan of Indy. Yeah, it’s one of those. It’s it’s a, you know, it’s an empty gesture. You know, it’s a it’s a prayer. Then the dome most likely fall upon, deaf ears. But I want it to be good. I do, I just think that the poor, poor guy.
01:01:41:10 – 01:01:47:45
Jason Zapata
Come on. Just let the poor man hang up his fedora with pride. Like, do we? Do we have to drag him back out at this point?
01:01:47:49 – 01:02:15:26
Agent Palmer
Oh, yeah. Of course we do. Because you know what? This is a thing that I have a suspicion. The Indiana Jones is going to die or go away. I don’t mean die like I don’t know what happens in the movie, but I get the feeling that the franchise is going to go away. I think that with Indy, with Indiana Jones as a property, as a franchise, we’re going to see it get locked in a vault for a long time.
01:02:15:31 – 01:02:39:01
Agent Palmer
I do not see, them finding somebody. This isn’t James Bond. I don’t see it that way. I don’t see somebody else just putting on the fedora. I’ve seen this going away for ten, 20 years. And then somebody like, you know what we should bring out of the vault? I think this is where Disney Disney’s vault concept gets used.
01:02:39:01 – 01:02:39:40
Agent Palmer
I really do.
01:02:39:40 – 01:02:46:36
Jason Zapata
But they haven’t that. Here’s the thing. A lot of the stuff that was put into the vault was just made into live actions, like, but.
01:02:46:41 – 01:03:21:02
Agent Palmer
But after so long. Right. And so I think it creates, an, look. Okay. We have a tough time with the prequels. Okay? The Star Wars prequels. We have a tough time with you. You were in that theater. The same theater I was on for that midnight showing. But one of the things that you have to admit is that regardless of its initial reception or how we look back on it, there was such a fervor about it because it had been 15 years.
01:03:21:02 – 01:03:36:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah, 16 years. Right. And so I think that for Indy. Maybe it’s a little different. I don’t think this movie has that fervor because like, not only had Crystal skull happened, but like we’ve been hearing about five for a long time.
01:03:36:57 – 01:03:39:08
Jason Zapata
Well, it’s another one of those things it was affected by.
01:03:39:10 – 01:04:02:59
Agent Palmer
It’s not a dead zone. And I feel like the one thing you need to do for Indy as a franchise is you need it to be a you need that dead zone where nobody’s talking about seven, six, five, whatever. You know, nobody’s talking about the next one. Just let it go. Let it go. Also, I feel like for the the, the powers that be have got to be seeing the diminishing returns on some of these movies.
01:04:03:07 – 01:04:34:31
Agent Palmer
Yeah, Marvel movies are going down because it’s getting too complicated to keep track of it. The Fast and Furious franchise. Also, they keep making the movies. Yeah, but guess what? The the total box office is going down because even if you make every movie in a franchise stand alone, when you call something fast X as the 10th movie in the franchise, some moviegoers will go, well, I haven’t seen I haven’t seen five or I haven’t seen nine.
01:04:34:31 – 01:04:45:36
Agent Palmer
And so there’s a diminishing returns with that. You need to put this. You need a sunset. The property, let it take a nice, deserved decade off and then maybe bring it back.
01:04:45:36 – 01:04:49:30
Jason Zapata
Maybe. Yeah, some things are you know, it’s okay to end. It’s okay to have it.
01:04:49:30 – 01:04:57:29
Agent Palmer
Oh my God, it’s of course it’s right to have an ending. God, if we didn’t have endings, you could never begin something new.
01:04:57:34 – 01:05:00:01
Jason Zapata
This is correct. Why is it words never said?
01:05:00:01 – 01:05:06:39
Agent Palmer
I hate that that it’s a proverb that I just. I like in platitudes. Fortune cookie wisdom here on the polymer files.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).