Episode 46 features Shawn McBee, a graphic designer for television and film with credits like Stargirl, Preacher, Sleepy Hollow, The Resident, and many other titles.
We talk about being in a position most people don’t know exists, the whim of the industry, passion projects, hobbies, Batman, and so much more.
During the episode we cover:
- Being a Graphic Designer for TV/Movies
- Making cool and mundane things
- How art departments and directors work together
- Atlanta: The Hollywood of the South
- The whim of the industry
- Working from job to job
- Speaking the creative language
- Launching a podcast network
- Podcasting
- Real props vs. on-screen props
- My “main” podcast
- Batman
- And much more…
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:28:55
Agent Palmer
Previously on agent Palmer dot com. Len Deighton’s Winter displays the full depth of his character arcs, sports pages, and aviation cards represent the needless stuff of a meandering generation. And while Chris is busy digging in the dirt, I’m still busy digging through the detritus of my own past. This is The Palmer Files, episode 46 with Shawn McBee, a graphic designer for television and film with credits like Stargirl, preacher, Sleepy Hollow, The Resident, and many other titles.
00:00:29:00 – 00:01:10:58
Agent Palmer
We talk about being in a position most people don’t know exists the whim of the industry, passion, projects, hobbies, Batman, and so much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:11:03 – 00:01:35:29
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 46th episode is Shawn McBee, a graphic designer for television and a hobbyist props master, and a podcaster and podcast network entrepreneur. As you’ll hear, I enjoy talking to the people that make the things we consume that aren’t the glamorous positions most commonly thought of.
00:01:35:34 – 00:02:06:30
Agent Palmer
Shawn is one of those people in one of those positions. Being a graphic designer for television and movies in the Hollywood of the South, Atlanta, you’ll hear us discuss the workings of Hollywood as an industry and the workings of Hollywood in Atlanta. And that while the finished product may be glitz and glamor, that isn’t necessarily the truth. On the other side of the lens, you’ll hear us talk about where we want to be, what we want to do, and about our hobbies and passion projects.
00:02:06:35 – 00:02:42:46
Agent Palmer
Before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer. My guest, Shawn McBee, can be found at his podcast network fandom, Limb Media. That’s fandom, fandom, limb, limber media, media, you know, media or his shows at the table reads or at Stargirl Pod. You could also see the network in his shows at Table Read podcast, dot com, Stargirl aftershow.
00:02:42:51 – 00:03:16:11
Agent Palmer
Com or the full network at fandom limb.com. Again, that’s fandom limbo.com. And of course a link to Shawn’s IMDb page will be available in the show notes. My writings and rantings can be found on Agent palmer.com, and email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, get comfortable and let’s press play.
00:03:16:16 – 00:03:30:07
Agent Palmer
Shawn, I want to start with what I think is the most interesting thing, which is why I wanted to have you on. You are in Hollywood. You know, you help make television, but you are the.
00:03:30:07 – 00:03:31:10
Shawn McBee
Hollywood of the South.
00:03:31:24 – 00:03:43:47
Agent Palmer
Okay? The Hollywood of the South. But you are not a director, producer or actor or cameraman, which means most people don’t really know what it is that you actually do.
00:03:43:52 – 00:03:51:07
Shawn McBee
Yeah, most people don’t know my job exists. In fact, I didn’t know my job existed before I got hired to do my job for the first time.
00:03:51:07 – 00:03:57:22
Agent Palmer
And ignoring the fact that you fell into it. Was being in movies something you wanted to do?
00:03:57:27 – 00:04:15:53
Shawn McBee
Oh, yeah. It came out when I was three, and my mom took me to see it four times, and I remember it vividly. And I’ve just been obsessed with film ever since. I made films all through high school and beyond. You know, it’s, it’s in my blood.
00:04:16:03 – 00:04:34:03
Agent Palmer
So it was the first obviously. And I feel like. Because personally, like, I wanted to be like an astronaut. And then I were an aerospace engineer more specifically. But then I found out I wasn’t good at math. So obviously that was not a, a place for me to go.
00:04:34:08 – 00:04:39:59
Shawn McBee
That has killed so many career paths for me. The whole math thing, I just can’t.
00:04:40:04 – 00:04:45:26
Agent Palmer
But you have to use math in graphic design. As an artist, you have to use math.
00:04:45:31 – 00:04:51:47
Shawn McBee
Pretty basic math, though. Not like trajectories.
00:04:51:52 – 00:04:58:45
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. I mean, if you move into visual effects, you’ll have to start learning trajectories.
00:04:58:49 – 00:05:03:56
Shawn McBee
And that’s why I’m not doing that.
00:05:04:00 – 00:05:08:57
Agent Palmer
So you basically get to make cool things for television basically.
00:05:08:57 – 00:05:11:17
Shawn McBee
And mundane things. Yes, all sorts of things.
00:05:11:28 – 00:05:29:49
Agent Palmer
But, see, I don’t. All right. So I want to I want to say when you make a faux Coke can as an example, I don’t see that as mundane. That’s cool because it looks like a Coke, but it’s not. And we know that, like, they all say cola.
00:05:29:54 – 00:05:30:35
Shawn McBee
Yeah. I mean, I guess.
00:05:30:35 – 00:05:32:08
Agent Palmer
Part of what you do right?
00:05:32:13 – 00:05:47:32
Shawn McBee
Yeah, absolutely. I guess it depends on, you know, how we’re gauging cool. Some things. You know, I have to design something that is specifically not good looking, because that’s what the narrative needs.
00:05:47:37 – 00:06:10:48
Agent Palmer
I don’t. Okay, you’re going to have to I can you give me a specific because like, so I have been corrupted by the graphic designers in my life to look at things and go spacing on. That’s off like a couple pixels to the left or whatever. Like my eye is now ruined because of them. So when you say you have to make something ugly, like, what is that?
00:06:10:49 – 00:06:13:34
Agent Palmer
I don’t I’m, I don’t even know what that means.
00:06:13:47 – 00:06:28:04
Shawn McBee
So for example, I recently worked on a show, that is very popular that I don’t feel comfortable naming at this point because the new season isn’t out yet and this could be spoilery.
00:06:28:04 – 00:06:28:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah. That’s fine.
00:06:28:37 – 00:06:54:00
Shawn McBee
So worked on a a real fun show, and I had to do signage for what is basically a rundown neighborhood in Los Angeles. And so I had to do like the most basic, like pawn shop, yellow red letters, boom, you know, the most mundane.
00:06:54:07 – 00:06:57:54
Agent Palmer
And do you have to you have to weather it to I’m guessing because obviously it’s so.
00:06:57:54 – 00:07:40:02
Shawn McBee
Typically and it depends on production. You know, the production designer decides how they prefer to do things, but typically I will make the stuff like shiny and new, and then we send it over to the paint department. And you guys don’t understand how much work the paint department does. They’re not painting, just rooms, but they’re making walls look dirty and rundown and signs like pretty much every sign that comes through in art department, the paint department is going over with what’s called a wash down, which just like makes it look a little bit like it’s been out living in the world.
00:07:40:16 – 00:07:53:19
Agent Palmer
Okay, so you’re not aging it. So when they say make a sign, you literally make a sign. And it’s like pristine. It’s perfect. It’s kind of like what I would ask if I wanted a logo. Like you’d make a logo.
00:07:53:24 – 00:08:05:21
Shawn McBee
Right? Except sometimes I do do a layer of digital age. It okay. Again, depends on the production designer’s preferences, but either way it’s usually going to the paint department afterwards.
00:08:05:36 – 00:08:21:04
Agent Palmer
Is there a thing you enjoy doing more than anything? Like is it signs? Is it props? Is it faux websites which I presume I don’t I mean, you know, whatever it is like, is there a part of this that you enjoy more than others?
00:08:21:09 – 00:08:45:22
Shawn McBee
I like the fun stuff and or funny stuff. Not a particular thing, but, there’s so much stuff that I do, for example, that I know is never going to be seen because, you know, character has a bag of groceries, okay? And they’re just putting groceries away in a scene, and I have to create labels for all the things that they’re putting away.
00:08:45:36 – 00:08:51:54
Shawn McBee
And I know damn well that we’re never going to see any of that stuff, like, well, well, you might see.
00:08:51:54 – 00:08:56:22
Agent Palmer
One, but a cut away from a conversation me that you than me, then.
00:08:56:22 – 00:09:21:53
Shawn McBee
You’re not going to see anything close up. Yeah. And so when I’m working on something that I know is going to be featured, then that’s, you know, real nice for Powerpuff for example, we had these huge murals, that we did all over town. I designed murals, you know, 50ft wide, five feet high, that kind of stuff.
00:09:21:58 – 00:09:41:50
Shawn McBee
And I had a lot of fun with them because they were like a fun thing to design. I love the murals that we have all over here in Atlanta. And, I knew that there was a conversation that was going to happen right in front of one of them, you know? So it’s it’s great when you know that something you’re doing is going to be on camera.
00:09:42:01 – 00:09:49:56
Agent Palmer
But if it’s a 50ft mural, you don’t know where in the 50ft mural the actors will be standing.
00:09:50:01 – 00:09:53:08
Shawn McBee
But sometimes I do. And in this case, I definitely did.
00:09:53:22 – 00:10:08:43
Agent Palmer
Oh, and well. But you’re creating it so far in advance. Like do they really is. I mean obviously Hollywood Avenue, everybody’s got a different process. But do you sometimes know what the shots are going to be ahead of time?
00:10:08:48 – 00:10:41:25
Shawn McBee
So here’s the way it works. Is, we have scouts before we start shooting. Everyone’s familiar with a location scout, I’m sure. Yes. Where you go out and that’s where you find your location. But following that, we do a tech scout, which is members of the art department and the construction department, and the director and, several other departments, and they go out and the director looks at the spot that we’ve already picked and they say, okay, I want to shoot this here.
00:10:41:39 – 00:11:05:36
Shawn McBee
We’re going to shoot in that direction. We’re never going to see that. And now directors are not always on top of that. Sometimes the director will say, okay, we’re never going to see that over there. And then on the day they’re like, okay, let’s shoot over there. But for the most part, they know what they want. They get in there, they say, okay, we want to shoot this stuff over here.
00:11:05:41 – 00:11:28:25
Shawn McBee
And so then the people from the art department go, and they have to take measurements of all the signs that we need to cover up. And any, for example, these murals, they showed where every wall that they wanted to cover was, they measured every one of those walls. They gave me the measurements. They said, this spot right here is where we’re going to have this conversation.
00:11:28:30 – 00:11:32:22
Shawn McBee
So make that the prettiest spot or whatever.
00:11:32:27 – 00:11:39:43
Agent Palmer
Okay. So sometimes, you know, but were you trained in any way for this?
00:11:39:48 – 00:11:41:41
Shawn McBee
Oh, 100%. No.
00:11:41:46 – 00:11:53:48
Agent Palmer
But I it’s I mean, it’s my favorite answer because I feel like we’ve but but you said this is what you want to do. So like you found your you fell into your calling basically.
00:11:53:53 – 00:12:14:50
Shawn McBee
Well, graphic design I’ve always had the hobby of not always, but you know, for many years I’ve, collected movie props and movie prop replicas and made movie props and movie prop replicas. And it’s the kind of hobby where you have to have a lot of sub skills.
00:12:14:55 – 00:12:16:09
Agent Palmer
So, okay.
00:12:16:21 – 00:12:46:06
Shawn McBee
It it it involves, you know, some sculpting, some 3D modeling, some, some electronics work sometimes, all kinds of different skills. And one of those is graphic design. I honed my skills as a graphic designer, recreating props from movies and TV shows that I liked. And that’s how I like gained this skill set. That, and like a past life making websites and things.
00:12:46:11 – 00:12:47:12
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:12:47:17 – 00:13:00:41
Shawn McBee
You know, just working in Photoshop and or illustrator is sort of always been part of a bunch of the stuff that I’ve done. So I learned it along the way and then, you know, ended up getting a job doing it.
00:13:00:46 – 00:13:19:31
Agent Palmer
And you’ve, you’ve you’ve worked on a ton of shows, but is there a favorite era you like? Because obviously every show you work for has a different feel and some of them are in different eras. Is there an era you have found that you enjoy designing for more?
00:13:19:36 – 00:13:47:55
Shawn McBee
Really, anything that’s not contemporary is a lot of fun. As long as it’s like a decent amount. Back. I worked on a feature that was that took place in 2011 and 2011 is just a little bit too recent. It ends up being like a pain, okay, because everything has to be just slightly old. But not really old enough to be interesting.
00:13:47:55 – 00:14:03:34
Shawn McBee
But you get back to the 80s or any time before the 80s, and then stuff gets fun. You get to play with different colors and different fonts. So really anything from any time period from the 80s back is a lot of fun.
00:14:03:39 – 00:14:31:14
Agent Palmer
All right. So are you. You’re a guy in your industry that has to pay attention to when things come back. Right? Because if the if the 80s comes back, say, next year, as an example, and you continue on this career path, at some point something’s going to be set in the past of next year and you’re going to be like, well, the 80s came back, so I can bust out some good fonts and some neon and get to work.
00:14:31:19 – 00:14:45:27
Shawn McBee
Or really, I think and I was actually thinking about this pretty recently. Everything seems to be on a 20 year cycle. You know, when I was in high school in the 90s, the 70s were having a big resurgence, you know?
00:14:45:33 – 00:14:46:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:14:46:12 – 00:15:16:21
Shawn McBee
And then in the 2000, the 80s had their big resurgence. But if you look at like the 90s have come back now, like in a big way and you see you always have this like contemporary stuff coexisting with whatever thing from 20 years ago has come back. But then when you make a movie or a TV show that takes place in that period later on, you’re not accounting for what was back in style at that point.
00:15:16:21 – 00:15:32:00
Shawn McBee
You’re just focusing on the original stuff, all the stuff coming out in the 90s. Now, you’re not seeing people in bell bottoms like we really did in the 90s, but you’re seeing the high top fades and the okay designs carved in the sides of people’s heads, and I gotcha.
00:15:32:05 – 00:15:32:56
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:15:33:01 – 00:15:39:19
Shawn McBee
The big bright colors and oversize jackets. I’ve also been watching a lot of Seinfeld, so the 90s are really on my mind now.
00:15:39:28 – 00:15:50:04
Agent Palmer
You are in Atlanta? Yes, which is the basically Hollywood of the South of late. I mean, in the last probably two decade and a half, two decades, I did a.
00:15:50:04 – 00:15:54:02
Shawn McBee
TV show filming right at the end of my street right now.
00:15:54:07 – 00:15:58:10
Agent Palmer
Nice. Were you always in Atlanta?
00:15:58:15 – 00:16:05:14
Shawn McBee
No, I moved to Atlanta to start work in this industry. Okay. And I was going to move here anyway.
00:16:05:23 – 00:16:06:41
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:16:06:46 – 00:16:10:59
Shawn McBee
I was here in town visiting to figure out where we might want to move.
00:16:11:07 – 00:16:11:35
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:16:11:48 – 00:16:13:20
Shawn McBee
When I got my job.
00:16:13:25 – 00:16:15:33
Agent Palmer
And where were you before.
00:16:15:38 – 00:16:17:43
Shawn McBee
Sarasota, Florida.
00:16:17:48 – 00:16:23:41
Agent Palmer
Okay. So, I mean, are you a southern boy, I guess. Is that.
00:16:23:45 – 00:16:36:17
Shawn McBee
So? That. That’s not the South? Sarasota is an affluent, rich people retirement city on the Gulf Coast.
00:16:36:23 – 00:16:37:24
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:16:37:29 – 00:16:58:01
Shawn McBee
So it’s, lots of Bentleys driving around, lots of old people with more money than God. You know, beaches, noise ordinances. It’s not a fun place to live, okay? For young people. I’m sure if you’re old, it’s great.
00:16:58:08 – 00:17:04:29
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, there’s. But there’s enough other retirement communities, too. You don’t need to just go to Sarasota for that.
00:17:04:29 – 00:17:23:05
Shawn McBee
Yeah. It’s it’s it’s not like. It’s not like Boca. Or anything like that. It’s pretty specifically for rich people. I remember right before the big financial collapse of 2008, there was a news headline that said that 1 in 10 people in that city was a millionaire.
00:17:23:10 – 00:17:27:45
Agent Palmer
Yeah, okay. I mean, per capita, that’s pretty fantastic for.
00:17:27:45 – 00:17:36:32
Shawn McBee
Yeah. And and when you’re like me, making 1250 an hour as I was at the time, it’s not an easy city to live in.
00:17:36:35 – 00:17:47:53
Agent Palmer
No, no, I would imagine that. Yeah, the cost of living there is gone. It was. So when you moved to Atlanta, the cost of living when you’re one of the few people in the world that moved to the big city and the cost of living went down.
00:17:48:04 – 00:17:55:23
Shawn McBee
Yeah, that’s that’s definitely accurate. Also, my income went up like five fold. Okay. Overnight. It was pretty great.
00:17:55:28 – 00:18:17:09
Agent Palmer
So when you get the opportunity to move into this industry, are you nervous at all? I mean, obviously you had kind of toyed toyed around in that kind of arena. But like as a career you’re looking at something very different now. You’re now people are going to pay you for this.
00:18:17:13 – 00:18:27:43
Shawn McBee
It was mostly exciting, okay. Especially in the beginning, because I came to Atlanta at a point where film was growing a lot faster than the talent pool.
00:18:27:57 – 00:18:28:19
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:18:28:22 – 00:18:47:51
Shawn McBee
And, so there were just jobs aplenty my first year. Plus I wasn’t unemployed for more than like six days because it was just one job. Straight into the next, straight into the next. After a while, you get to a point where you got some time between jobs.
00:18:48:06 – 00:19:17:58
Agent Palmer
So are you very much like an actor in that regard, where, you know, if you’re lucky enough to get on to like a television series, then and it gets picked up again, you can hopefully maintain your position through every time it gets picked up. But if not, you go for a movie or you go from show that ended to maybe another show that hopefully will continue or or whatnot, and you’re just kind of at the whim of the industry.
00:19:18:06 – 00:19:25:41
Shawn McBee
Yeah, exactly. Okay. I mean, actors have a better chance of coming back for the following season of a television show, so.
00:19:25:41 – 00:19:38:51
Agent Palmer
You’re not necessarily guaranteed like, like if you’re if you’re a main cast member, obviously you’re in. Unless they kill you off, you’re coming back for season two. As a graphic designer, you’re not guaranteed that.
00:19:38:55 – 00:20:11:36
Shawn McBee
No. Because of for a few different reasons. You know, all sorts of different, turnover sort of happens. So a show might have the person that hires me is the production designer. So if the production designer doesn’t come back for the next season. Okay, then, there’s not much chance that the next production design designer is going to hire me, because they might have someone they like to work with, you know, or maybe the time between seasons is too long for me to wait for that to start up.
00:20:11:41 – 00:20:17:35
Shawn McBee
And so I have to take another job. And then when that starts up, I’m just not available. Okay, it’s like that.
00:20:17:35 – 00:20:50:42
Agent Palmer
So it’s it’s not I, I like talking to people behind the scenes because I feel like to people that aren’t nerds and geeks that, you know, watch the DVD commentaries and pause to look at certain things on the screen. Hollywood is Hollywood. You know, if you’re in TV, while you’re in TV, you’ve made it. Or like if you you’ve made a filter feature film like you’ve made it, you’re even if you’re just the guy getting coffee, you know, hey, I worked on X.
00:20:50:46 – 00:21:02:31
Agent Palmer
Wow. You’ve made it. And I’m always astounded that that’s not the case. And yet still, you’re part of a team that creates something amazing.
00:21:02:35 – 00:21:24:16
Shawn McBee
Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s really nice getting to work on things that are cool. Not everything I worked on is cool. I was unable to even watch some of the things I’ve worked on, some of the things I’ve worked on. The Fox show star, for example, with Queen Latifah.
00:21:24:18 – 00:21:25:21
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:21:25:26 – 00:21:47:16
Shawn McBee
I worked on season two of that. I would read the scripts and just be like, I don’t want any of these characters to succeed or be happy because I hate them and they’re all miserable people. Like, I couldn’t even start to care about the characters, so I couldn’t care about the show. A lot of people love it though, so I’m glad that they love it.
00:21:47:21 – 00:21:56:00
Shawn McBee
I couldn’t get behind it, but something like Star Girl, that’s just the greatest working on a superhero show, man.
00:21:56:13 – 00:22:01:26
Agent Palmer
But it’s I mean, you’ve done other superhero shows, though.
00:22:01:31 – 00:22:12:14
Shawn McBee
Stargirl is my first, like, real, proper superhero show. Okay, I, I did some work on preacher seasons one through three. Not a superhero show, but a comic book.
00:22:12:15 – 00:22:16:00
Agent Palmer
Comic book show. Yeah. Okay.
00:22:16:05 – 00:22:26:10
Shawn McBee
Basically genre stuff when I can get on that. That’s what I super love. Sleepy hollow is not the greatest show, but it was a lot of fun to work on because of the kind of stuff I got to make.
00:22:26:15 – 00:22:54:40
Agent Palmer
Okay. Is that part of, you know, obviously if you need work, you take the work like you take the job that’s available. But if if you get the choice, are those, I guess preacher falls into that category. Are those science fiction fantasy or, you know, slightly altered reality things better because, you know, as a graphic designer, there’s a chance you’ll be making some pretty wacky shit.
00:22:54:45 – 00:22:59:39
Shawn McBee
Well, yeah, there’s that, but there’s also just that. It’s like subject matter that I personally enjoy.
00:22:59:43 – 00:23:00:27
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:23:00:32 – 00:23:12:35
Shawn McBee
So despite the, the fun stuff that I would get to make and design, it’s just a cooler environment for me to be in and I get to enjoy my days more.
00:23:12:44 – 00:23:28:53
Agent Palmer
I mean, it is still work though, right? Like you are still I mean, if I asked you to build a logo, it’s no different than if you build a logo for your, you know, when you’re working on a show, like you still have to sit down and design it, like that process is still the same.
00:23:29:07 – 00:23:29:49
Shawn McBee
Absolutely.
00:23:29:49 – 00:23:34:10
Agent Palmer
And do you do you do side hustle stuff?
00:23:34:15 – 00:23:56:38
Shawn McBee
Usually just like work for other shows, like sometimes a prop department will have just a heavy load of graphics that the show’s graphic designer can’t handle in addition to their the rest of their load. And so I’ve got a few prop masters that will reach out to me and say, hey, can you do this thing for me and throw me some side money?
00:23:56:38 – 00:24:33:18
Shawn McBee
I don’t like to work outside the industry very often, because the great thing about being a graphic designer in film versus being a graphic designer in the normal world, sure is that I’m working with creative people who know how to communicate what they want and who are professionally creative versus, civilian, I guess, client who gives you vague, stupid things and then wants you to do something that is clearly going to make it terrible, that you don’t want to put your name on it.
00:24:33:23 – 00:24:34:24
Shawn McBee
And now that kind of thing.
00:24:34:24 – 00:24:45:56
Agent Palmer
Now, are these things, you know, from experience, like you have experience with this, or is this just things you’ve heard from others? Because I’ve talked to graphic designers and what you are saying is 100% true.
00:24:46:05 – 00:25:07:02
Shawn McBee
Yes, of course it’s 100% true. It is the reality. I haven’t done really graphic design in that way so much, but I have, in my early, earlier life, done some website design and even for friends. And they’re just very frustrating. Yeah.
00:25:07:02 – 00:25:44:08
Agent Palmer
The, the there is, I and I don’t want to say it’s a language because I don’t think it is a language, but it’s just flat, like straight on communicating. Like, I think concepts are easily, more easily conveyed from creative to creative across mediums, like you could talk to, a filmmaker or a cartoonist and still get a better idea of what they’re looking for than an accountant who’s going to be like, just make it green.
00:25:44:17 – 00:25:51:47
Shawn McBee
Yeah. Or, I don’t know. Can can you make the font more fun?
00:25:51:52 – 00:26:09:10
Agent Palmer
What? Yeah. That’s, so you’re you’re in the industry. You’re a graphic designer. Is there is there more like, do you have ambitions to maybe, perhaps write or director act?
00:26:09:15 – 00:26:38:29
Shawn McBee
I am toying currently with, a pitch for a show that probably would never go anywhere. You know, weird opportunities arise just by being in the industry. Like, Danny McBride was a caterer on film sets, and someone was like, this guy’s hilarious. We should put him in something.
00:26:38:34 – 00:26:49:40
Agent Palmer
So. So, I mean, I guess. What’s an opportunity you want to, like? Like, would you take anything, like, you enjoy the industry that much?
00:26:49:45 – 00:27:00:50
Shawn McBee
I mean, I would I would love a chance to work in a writers room. Okay. I think that would probably be the ideal. Or, a shot at directing, but, I mean, you don’t just jump from where I am to directing.
00:27:01:04 – 00:27:01:49
Agent Palmer
Sure. Yeah.
00:27:01:49 – 00:27:05:00
Shawn McBee
There’s a there’s there’s no circumstance where that happens.
00:27:05:05 – 00:27:14:05
Agent Palmer
Well, you can win the lottery and then, absolutely. You can direct whatever you want, right? I think I think if you have enough money, I think they let you direct.
00:27:14:05 – 00:27:44:47
Shawn McBee
But, you know, there are certain things where certain skill sets start to get noticed outside of your core skill set. You know, like, I’ve, when there’s a newspaper in a scene, I typically write the whole article, unless the writers have thought to do that and they almost never do. And you never know, someone could actually sit and read that and go, oh, this is good.
00:27:44:51 – 00:27:50:38
Shawn McBee
How do you write something so good and so fitting with what we’re doing? You know, who knows what could happen?
00:27:50:51 – 00:28:01:20
Agent Palmer
Do you ever try and make people laugh because you have that power? Like you could put a joke on, like a cereal box or in an article that if they happen to see it.
00:28:01:24 – 00:28:25:59
Shawn McBee
Oh, dude, that’s my favorite thing to do when the show lends itself to it. Okay. So on Sleepy Hollow, there was, you went to this, like, colonial themed restaurant, and, there was like a buffet menu that I made, and they gave us, like four scripted, like, punch menu items. Okay. And I went wild with the whole thing.
00:28:26:04 – 00:28:52:33
Shawn McBee
First, it was an all you can eat buffet, $17.76. Okay. And then I came up with all these names like, man, so many years ago, I can barely remember it, but, they were all revolutionary War themed food items, like like, Eggs Benedict and Arnold or Benedict Arnold. Alexander Ham sandwich, something like that, I don’t know, I.
00:28:52:34 – 00:28:59:53
Agent Palmer
Like it, I like it, and obviously like, that’s not your only. That’s probably the big. Is that the biggest one you’ve done?
00:28:59:58 – 00:29:10:20
Shawn McBee
And that was like my, my first big funny thing because it also ended up being like a shot of Tom Mason looking at that menu was like the promo for the season.
00:29:10:25 – 00:29:11:16
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:29:11:21 – 00:29:46:45
Shawn McBee
So that that was that was good. That was gratifying. But I remember another thing I did on that show was, I had a chocolate bar and on the ingredients on the back, like you never, ever would see it, but on the ingredients or like the story of the chocolate company on the back, like I put a whole story about how the farmers who farm this, this stuff, get paid the equivalent of one chocolate bars price per month, and they don’t even know what the beans they’re farming are used for, because I had watched a documentary all about that, so I thought it’d be funny to put that back there.
00:29:46:45 – 00:29:56:24
Shawn McBee
Like, as if they’re pushing, you know, their indigenous farming credentials. But in just like the most tone deaf way.
00:29:56:29 – 00:30:04:26
Agent Palmer
Of these things, though, I mean, you were a collector before you got into this industry. Do you get to keep any of these things?
00:30:04:31 – 00:30:37:35
Shawn McBee
There’s a fair amount, like on Stargirl. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but, in season one of Stargirl, Amy Smart has this mug. It says World’s Greatest Mom. And, spoilers for Stargirl for a big emotional story arc. If you haven’t seen it, skip ahead 15 seconds or something. But, at the end of the season, Luke Wilson gets a matching one that says World’s Greatest Dad with, like, little kid drawings of a mom and a dad on them that I did by using my left hand.
00:30:37:40 – 00:30:39:10
Shawn McBee
00:30:39:15 – 00:30:49:34
Agent Palmer
Was that was it real? Was your left hand convincing enough? Because I feel like your left hand in my my dominant hand would be.
00:30:49:39 – 00:30:56:40
Shawn McBee
Oh, no, I don’t do anything with my left hand. Okay. It was convincing. Anyway, I got a set of those mugs.
00:30:56:54 – 00:30:58:12
Agent Palmer
Oh, nice.
00:30:58:17 – 00:31:12:48
Shawn McBee
You know, I’m sure I’ve got other stuff around here that’s come from shows. You know, I don’t get to keep, like, cool, expensive things. Okay. But. Oh.
00:31:12:53 – 00:31:17:06
Shawn McBee
So I made, 1800s British money for a show.
00:31:17:17 – 00:31:18:15
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:31:18:20 – 00:31:28:51
Shawn McBee
And I just made some extra ones for myself. Just a set of them, and they’re, you know, they have to be fictionalized so that we can’t pass them off as real money.
00:31:28:51 – 00:31:29:25
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:31:29:25 – 00:31:44:10
Shawn McBee
Real antique money. But, I made these 100% myself, aged them, threw them in the dryer to get the real nice. So I, I kept a set of those. You know, I keep stuff sometimes you need Mentos.
00:31:44:10 – 00:31:56:01
Agent Palmer
You have your. But you you had a collection beforehand as well. So like of the collection and the things you did personally like what’s one of your favorites?
00:31:56:06 – 00:32:01:06
Shawn McBee
So I did a recreation of the, The Maze from Westworld.
00:32:01:13 – 00:32:01:42
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:32:01:42 – 00:32:26:35
Shawn McBee
From season one of Westworld that I’m very proud of. I have not seen one better. If I’m speaking honestly and tooting my own horn. I know that sounds pretentious, but I haven’t. The thing that got me into the industry was, record from the show Constantine. On the show, there’s a blues singer playing, he had sold it.
00:32:26:43 – 00:32:48:24
Shawn McBee
They sort of combine two myths that, blues singer sells his soul to the devil for great talent. And, a recording of the devil drives people crazy. Yeah. So he’s he’s cutting a record. When the devil comes to collect his soul from the deal he had made. And so you get the song playing, and then you hear.
00:32:48:29 – 00:33:05:31
Shawn McBee
What? And then, like, all the demon sounds and his head explodes or whatever. And so I mixed all that audio down, and I had it pressed on to a record, and I recreated the record sleeve, which is like a 1930s design. And it’s really cool. Doing that is literally what got me in the industry.
00:33:05:36 – 00:33:30:38
Agent Palmer
Where so I’ve, I’ve made models when I was a kid and I’ve, I don’t know if I’ve ever thought like, hey, that’s cool. I’ll make it like there’s, I, I have to applaud you because, like, that’s like another level of fandom that I just to or or ingenuity, I guess that I just don’t have.
00:33:30:43 – 00:34:05:08
Shawn McBee
So here’s, here’s what it is for me. And it’s different for different people. It’s, it’s a whole, like, legitimate, widespread hobby group. Some people like to have, you know, super authentic screen used things. I find they tend to be a little lacking. I mean, you see a screen used prop in the movie, it looks great. You see the real thing and it’s like foam and kind of, falling apart because it’s not meant for a hero shot.
00:34:05:13 – 00:34:14:42
Shawn McBee
For me, though, I like to feel like I have pulled something out of that universe into our universe as a memento.
00:34:14:57 – 00:34:15:41
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:34:15:45 – 00:34:27:20
Shawn McBee
So, whereas, you know, something, that on set may have been made out of plastic and painted to look like metal. Like, I want that to be metal, dude.
00:34:27:25 – 00:34:30:26
Agent Palmer
You want some heft when you hold it in your hand. Kind of a deal.
00:34:30:39 – 00:35:02:45
Shawn McBee
Yeah. Going back to Stargirl again, the character Hourman has this hourglass that gives him his powers. And, on the show, made out of plastic. But I actually made one out of solid brass myself from scratch. It’s probably of the things that I’ve made. My very favorite thing. Well, because it’s solid brass and it’s like hefty and it’s exact to the one on the show, because I took a whole bunch of photos of it on my last day on season one.
00:35:02:56 – 00:35:23:37
Agent Palmer
Nice. And so do you. I don’t know, like you, you’ve reached the pinnacle. I’ll say that. Like what? Like what’s next? I mean, obviously you said you wanted to maybe stay in the industry direct or do other things, but like from here you can go almost anywhere. I think.
00:35:23:42 – 00:35:49:47
Shawn McBee
I mean, I’m really happy to stay where I am. Like, if another opportunity arose to do something like work on a writer’s room, I would absolutely jump at it. But I’m in like a real sweet spot right now because my job has probably the most healthy work life balance, in the film industry. So even an actor like they’ve got 16 hour days sometimes.
00:35:49:52 – 00:36:05:44
Shawn McBee
Yeah. And they’re, they’re days move throughout the week. So they may be going in at six a am on Monday morning, but then they’re starting work at 8 p.m. on Friday. So like just their whole thing gets messed up.
00:36:05:45 – 00:36:08:16
Agent Palmer
Do you actually work a 9 to 5 then.
00:36:08:16 – 00:36:10:22
Shawn McBee
I work in 8 to 6.
00:36:10:27 – 00:36:11:34
Agent Palmer
I mean I’m close enough.
00:36:11:35 – 00:36:13:54
Shawn McBee
I work ten hour days.
00:36:13:59 – 00:36:14:16
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:36:14:17 – 00:36:31:29
Shawn McBee
It’s pretty much the same every day. You know, sometimes there will be some big thing that needs to get done on a deadline, and I’ll stay late. I’ve stayed as late as midnight. Sure. But that’s atypical. Whereas for almost everybody else it’s typical.
00:36:31:44 – 00:36:45:29
Agent Palmer
And you’re also doing something you love. So it’s not really like a struggle. Like, hey, Sean, you have to go home. No. Hold on. I want to finish this design. Like I feel like you’re that guy. Like. No, let me finish this.
00:36:45:29 – 00:36:54:36
Shawn McBee
I’ll on, 15, 16 hours in on anything. You forget that you love what you’re doing.
00:36:54:41 – 00:37:19:37
Agent Palmer
All right, all right, I’ll. By that, I mean, I. I’ve been, I mean, I’ve been out of work for quite a while, unfortunately, but, you know, I’ve been doing nothing but passion projects in this time, right? So for me, a 16 hour day is still something I absolutely love, but I don’t really have many of them, so I don’t really have to worry about that so much, but I do.
00:37:19:37 – 00:37:39:49
Agent Palmer
I like I envy you because I’m also here going like I, I don’t know what’s next. And it’s the thing that comes up on the show quite a bit because I honestly don’t. And you fell in to where you ended up and I feel like I will too. I feel like everybody kind of eventually ends up where you’re supposed to be.
00:37:39:49 – 00:38:04:26
Agent Palmer
It’s a bit hokey to say, and I’ve said it before and I. I still feel weird saying it, but I believe it because I because maybe because of this show, I’ve talked to writers and people like you who are behind the scenes like sound design, visual design, and, you know, teachers. And everybody seems to be where they belong.
00:38:04:31 – 00:38:07:03
Agent Palmer
Like, nobody seems out of place.
00:38:07:07 – 00:38:30:52
Shawn McBee
I mean, as long as you keep doing the things that you like, even if it’s not what you’re doing for a living, you know, just keep pushing at that and you keep making, you know, connections in relation to that. You’re really upping your chances of something happening properly.
00:38:30:57 – 00:38:47:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I, I, I mean, it leads me to you also have passion projects like you aren’t just going to work and coming home and enjoying movies like you have podcasts as as a hobby.
00:38:47:55 – 00:39:02:56
Shawn McBee
Yeah, I’m not working right now, but I still wake up at seven in the morning, and I was working on building a website for a new podcast network I’m launching right up until the moment that I got on this call with you.
00:39:03:01 – 00:39:10:24
Agent Palmer
Okay. Hold on. We’re going to we’re going to go back for a second. How many podcasts do you have? Do you have?
00:39:10:29 – 00:39:12:44
Shawn McBee
I have two podcasts. Okay.
00:39:12:49 – 00:39:25:34
Agent Palmer
And obviously it started with one. I’m guessing. Yes. And then it spawned into another. Where do you make the jump to? I want to do a network.
00:39:25:39 – 00:39:54:27
Shawn McBee
So my, my main podcast and I call it my main podcast because I think it’s the one I have more fun with, but it is not the one that gets more listeners. Is table reads, where me and my two cohorts read and riff on screenplays that never got made? And it’s all cold reads. We don’t know what we’re reading beforehand, so it’s just like our genuine reactions as we read it.
00:39:54:29 – 00:39:57:15
Shawn McBee
We do all the voices you know?
00:39:57:19 – 00:40:06:03
Agent Palmer
How embarrassed will you be if somebody digs out one of those for a to to really shoot it down the road?
00:40:06:08 – 00:40:20:00
Shawn McBee
I mean, I can’t actually see that happening with any of these scripts. They’re usually things that were abandoned for like, other versions or like, Beetlejuice goes Hawaiian. Nobody’s going to make that.
00:40:20:04 – 00:40:20:57
Agent Palmer
Okay. Okay.
00:40:21:02 – 00:40:43:49
Shawn McBee
But it wouldn’t be embarrassing. It would be. It would be great to be able to see, like, what the reality is versus, you know, what we riffed on it as. Yeah, but you know, we do so many voices and stuff. That’s another thing that could lead into like if someone listened to an episode that was in a position to hire someone as a voice actor, that could happen.
00:40:43:54 – 00:40:48:12
Agent Palmer
Nice. Now, I mean, look, is Cartoon Networks still in Atlanta?
00:40:48:16 – 00:40:48:52
Shawn McBee
It is.
00:40:48:52 – 00:40:50:32
Agent Palmer
So I mean.
00:40:50:37 – 00:40:54:16
Shawn McBee
But here’s the thing. Yeah. To answer your question about the network.
00:40:54:16 – 00:40:55:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:40:55:14 – 00:41:38:07
Shawn McBee
So, in the course of that, I have found a couple other podcast that that sort of fit into that unproduced screenplay niche. One of them is called Screenplay Archeology, where the host, Kermit head, does basically, an historical rundown of attempts to make a thing, like like, he’s got an episode where he covers four different Highlander remake scripts or something like that, and he just breaks down like, here’s what was in this script, and here’s where it went wrong and why it didn’t get made and how it went into the next draft.
00:41:38:07 – 00:41:50:10
Shawn McBee
And da da da da. And we’re all sort of in the same family. And I brought him onto my hosting platform because I thought it would be fun to like, sort of bring us all together. Cross-Promote each other.
00:41:50:17 – 00:41:51:08
Agent Palmer
Sure. Yeah.
00:41:51:13 – 00:42:29:22
Shawn McBee
And it’s gotten to the point now where we need to upgrade to the most premium package on the host, okay, to be able to do everything we want to do. And I thought, well, the cost of that would be much more palatable if we could split it amongst more people. Sure. Yeah. So I’m looking at getting a bunch of shows on where everyone will pay a very minimal fee, $10 a month, but they’ll get services and access to to features that would cost them a $130 a month if they were doing it on their own.
00:42:29:29 – 00:42:53:36
Agent Palmer
Plus, you get the benefit of network cross-promotion and marketing in general. You know, I know I, I get it, actually. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m adrift in a sea by myself just because I can’t make any decisions. And at the moment, there are no podcast networks that are clamoring for another conversation podcast, which is fine. And I’m not going to stop doing this.
00:42:53:36 – 00:43:07:42
Agent Palmer
But no, I completely get the value of the podcast network. But if I do have to go back, where do you get you or them, I guess, where do the scripts come from?
00:43:07:47 – 00:43:49:16
Shawn McBee
So, the host of Screenplay Archeology gets access to a lot of his screenplays because he’s part of some, like, screenplay. Swapping group. It goes back to, like, Usenet days or something like that. Wow. Just people that have, like, been passing these things around for forever as a hobby. Like, that’s its whole own hobby. Me, I just have a few websites that I know to look for things, or I’ll sometimes, put an ask out on Reddit and some nice person on Reddit will happen to have what I need and help me out.
00:43:49:21 – 00:44:01:28
Shawn McBee
Or, you know, on occasion I will put my feelers out through the the film community with some people I know from work, okay, and be able to get my hands on something.
00:44:01:40 – 00:44:28:13
Agent Palmer
All right. I I’ve never I don’t know if I have any experience. I think I have one published book which is has the scripts to two Marx Brothers movies, and it and I’ve tried to read it. I just, I, I can’t like I took a screenwriting class, I’ve written a screenplay, I can’t read them. I, I don’t know why.
00:44:28:13 – 00:44:44:41
Agent Palmer
I, and I’ve heard your show and, I mean, obviously you guys are riffing, and it’s part of a bigger thing. I’ve. I’ve just had a problem. I’m. I’m a reader, but I don’t know the the format of the screenplay just turns me off somehow.
00:44:44:46 – 00:45:06:15
Shawn McBee
I mean, I can get that. I’m sort of the same way with, stage plays. Okay. I just I can’t read it very well. Reading Shakespeare never really worked for me, though. I mean, I’ll watch the hell out of a a movie or a play about Shakespeare. Yeah, so I get that. But they’ve they’ve always worked for me.
00:45:06:15 – 00:45:34:12
Shawn McBee
I mean, I’ve been reading scripts since the 90s. I think the first is probably Pulp Fiction. You know, I was in ninth grade when Pulp Fiction came out, and then the script book came out and, you know, me and my friends, like, Tarantino was our God in high school. So we consumed everything voraciously. And we discovered a site called Drew’s Script a rama in, I don’t know, 96, 97.
00:45:34:17 – 00:45:48:47
Shawn McBee
And it still exists today, and it has so many scripts on it. And that was where I found my first unpublished script, which was the Kevin Smith Superman movie. Okay, so I read that in the 90s, and I read dogma before it came out.
00:45:49:01 – 00:46:07:46
Agent Palmer
Oh, wow. Okay. As a fan of the industry and someone in the industry, I. I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask you about every streaming service in the world in that, like, are there is there ever going to be a thing where there’s too much.
00:46:07:51 – 00:46:09:35
Shawn McBee
Too much content out there?
00:46:09:35 – 00:46:24:07
Agent Palmer
Not. I mean, right now, I think there’s too much content. I mean, there no one will ever be able to watch all of the content. But as far as like all of the platforms go, there will be another platform or 2 or 3 before it gets, you know, really cramped.
00:46:24:21 – 00:46:28:40
Shawn McBee
But like there’ll be another 2 or 3 platforms before we’re done with this conversation.
00:46:28:40 – 00:46:32:24
Agent Palmer
Right?
00:46:32:29 – 00:46:43:23
Agent Palmer
I mean, it just means more work for you, I guess. Right? Like, they need they all need original content. They can’t just keep running on syndication and passing shows and movies back and forth.
00:46:43:25 – 00:46:53:39
Shawn McBee
I mean, yeah, and as long as there’s comic books to adapt, they’ll keep doing it. That’s that’s more content that they can call original. Well the boys Amazon original.
00:46:53:44 – 00:46:54:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:46:54:25 – 00:47:00:43
Shawn McBee
AMC’s preacher. What, what’s the one that just came out? Jupiter’s Legacy.
00:47:00:44 – 00:47:07:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I haven’t watched it yet, but I saw that that one came out. That’s for the first episodes.
00:47:07:22 – 00:47:22:07
Shawn McBee
A little a little rough because it’s so much exposition that they’re trying to make not seem like exposition, but it is not conversational. Guys just have an exposition dump and get it over with. But it gets better after that.
00:47:22:07 – 00:47:42:34
Agent Palmer
So I had this conversation with someone about how do you feel about conversation dumps or info dumps and I feel like if it’s necessary, just do it and get it over with. Like, you don’t need to. You don’t need to stretch something out if you don’t have to.
00:47:42:38 – 00:48:14:32
Shawn McBee
It really depends on the writer, because there’s stuff out there where you’re getting exposition conversationally and it doesn’t even stand out to you. It’s just conversation. And it’s it’s planting seeds in the back of your head so that you know what these people think. But that was not the case in the first episode of this particular show. Everyone was having these conversations that were so blatantly like, here’s the world we live in.
00:48:14:37 – 00:48:22:54
Shawn McBee
When I felt like, the MCU Hulk movie, the one with, Edward Norton.
00:48:22:59 – 00:48:23:48
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:48:23:53 – 00:48:51:14
Shawn McBee
Because there had just been a Hulk movie a few years prior. They didn’t do the whole origin thing. They just did a super condensed, like two minute super hour fast origin recap. And it was amazing. The movie was not great, but as far as like conveying some information to you, like this nuclear gamma raid turns into a monster.
00:48:51:14 – 00:48:53:26
Shawn McBee
Now he’s on the run. Go! Loved.
00:48:53:26 – 00:49:04:24
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s so it’s. You’re saying these things and it just reminds me, like it’s why I don’t like Batman movies anymore.
00:49:04:29 – 00:49:20:03
Shawn McBee
Because I what everyone bring like everybody knows guys like, you know, I watched I watched the original the 1989 Tim Burton Batman recently and it did a really, great household. Like, not great.
00:49:20:08 – 00:49:25:28
Agent Palmer
Really. I haven’t I haven’t seen it in a very long time. So I don’t know. I mean, that’s why I’m asking, like.
00:49:25:42 – 00:49:48:27
Shawn McBee
So, that movie changed my life. The the status of my life right now. Yeah. Tilts on the axis of having seen that movie when I was ten. Like, no joke. That is the the flash point, if you will. That set my entire life on the course that it’s on now.
00:49:48:42 – 00:49:51:24
Agent Palmer
Now, were you reading comics before this movie?
00:49:51:29 – 00:49:52:11
Shawn McBee
No.
00:49:52:16 – 00:49:55:34
Agent Palmer
Oh. So this is that flash point as well.
00:49:55:39 – 00:50:16:02
Shawn McBee
Right? Like after that, I went and picked up cigaret butts at an outside bar downtown for $2 a day. As a ten year old, and took that $2 half a block down the road to my local comic shop and bought whatever $2 Batman he had. And then he ran out of $2 Batman’s. So Green Lantern number three had just come out.
00:50:16:07 – 00:50:29:22
Shawn McBee
So I was like, well, get me number one and then get me number two, and then get me number three. And let’s just keep this going. And like this sent me off on my course. And I never saw it in the theater, Batman, until they had the 30th anniversary.
00:50:29:27 – 00:50:29:54
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:50:29:54 – 00:51:03:52
Shawn McBee
That they put out in theaters for one night and oh, I went to that. Damn right. And it’s a lot, lot cheesier than my childhood self remembered or ever realized. Okay. But regarding the, the origin. Yeah. Like they did something so clever in that movie that I had completely forgotten about, which is at the very beginning, you see this family leaving a movie theater, and they take a shortcut through the alley, and the robber comes out and and steals their money.
00:51:03:57 – 00:51:30:34
Shawn McBee
And like, they’re making you think that those are the Wayne’s. And then, you know, that’s when you see the two robbers up on the roof and Batman swoops in. But then when you think about it, here’s what Batman did. He stood on the roof and watched that robbery happen and did nothing. And then he comes down to startle these two bad guys, immediately gets shot and falls on his ass.
00:51:30:39 – 00:51:32:44
Shawn McBee
That’s our introduction to Batman.
00:51:32:49 – 00:51:33:55
Agent Palmer
Yeah, okay.
00:51:34:06 – 00:51:55:23
Shawn McBee
Also, I would like to mention that in the two Michael Keaton movies, there is literally nothing throughout the entirety of those two movies that implies in any way that he did any sort of training to become Batman of any type. He uses no martial arts because he can’t move in that damn suit.
00:51:55:28 – 00:51:56:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah, well, okay.
00:51:56:58 – 00:52:12:37
Shawn McBee
He uses really no detective skills except figuring out that you have to mix two makeups to get the Joker effect. Literally all he did was spend a bunch of money on stuff and wing it. Apparently.
00:52:12:42 – 00:52:13:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:52:13:30 – 00:52:30:07
Shawn McBee
That’s the thing. I never. That took me 30 years to realize that I had to see it on the big screen before I was like, oh, my God, there’s no mention of him doing any training. There’s definitely no evidence of it. Like, this is just a dude in a suit.
00:52:30:12 – 00:52:49:29
Agent Palmer
I, I’m still I’m still going to probably revisit it, but like, I don’t know, I, I have a soft spot for some of those older movies, despite the fact that I know most of them don’t hold up like I. I rewatch Real Genius way too often. I’ll be, hey, man.
00:52:49:34 – 00:53:05:03
Shawn McBee
Look, I’m not saying that Batman is not one of the greatest films of all time, because it definitely is. I’m just saying it. It’s got doesn’t hold up to what we’ve come to expect these days.
00:53:05:14 – 00:53:33:14
Agent Palmer
Well, and that’s the thing, we’ve come a long way for, especially superhero movies like, you know, blade was probably the one of the best before the MCU starts, arguably, I think. And then the MCU starts, and we don’t know that it’s going to turn into what it turned into. So, I mean, that’s it’s been exciting to watch, but like, I enjoyed Iron Man and what?
00:53:33:14 – 00:53:42:08
Agent Palmer
Oh, wait, I didn’t think like, I didn’t think it was going to be the beginning of a 20 movie arc. Like, who saw that coming?
00:53:42:13 – 00:53:45:19
Shawn McBee
Yeah, I mean, it’s amazing what they’ve managed to do.
00:53:45:24 – 00:54:00:14
Agent Palmer
Is that is that, you’ve mainly done television like, features like, I mean, obviously I’m sure you’d love to be a part of the MCU, but, like, would you love to get like in it Disney somehow. Like, would that be?
00:54:00:19 – 00:54:33:16
Shawn McBee
Yeah. I mean, the thing is, you know, most of the Marvel movies are shot here in Atlanta. She-Hulk shot right down the road for me last weekend. Like, I walked down to where they were shooting. They’re all over, the Falcon and the Winter soldier shot here. WandaVision shot here, endgame shot here. They all like Atlanta is the home of Marvel, and I have not been able to work on one single Marvel project because they bring graphic designers in from, la.
00:54:33:23 – 00:54:42:34
Agent Palmer
May. Maybe, maybe one day like I, I now I’m now I am I’m rooting for you to get in the MCU somehow.
00:54:42:38 – 00:55:08:10
Shawn McBee
Hey. Me too. And, you know, I don’t think that they’re actually very fun to work on. There’s so much secrecy. And, like, I’ve, I’ve got friends who have been, who have worked on Marvel movies, and it’s, you know, it’s it’s a lot and there’s a lot of secrecy and security and all this stuff, but, you know, like, I just want to be able to point my name on one of these Marvel projects.
00:55:08:10 – 00:55:09:13
Shawn McBee
Any one of them?
00:55:09:13 – 00:55:11:48
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, that would be that would be sweet.
00:55:11:53 – 00:55:32:29
Shawn McBee
And features in general are, generally speaking, a lot better than television. In terms of, you know, you have six weeks before you start shooting and there’s only one script there, whereas in TV you’re doing, you know, a new 45 minute script every eight days.
00:55:32:34 – 00:55:52:05
Agent Palmer
So it’s. Yeah, but isn’t there? I mean, and this is coming from someone who’s not in the industry. Is the pay scale that different, or is TV just a better gig because, you know, you’re guaranteed 22 episodes or, you know, 13 episodes or whatever it happens to be versus one?
00:55:52:10 – 00:56:24:06
Shawn McBee
Well, it it varies. See, the the pay, I think is usually pretty commiserate when one to the other, you know, okay industry. But it’s like it depends on the feature. I worked on feature that was a little $5 million indie thing. It was like six weeks of work. Okay. But, you know, if you’re working on a marvel show, that’s that’s a ten month shoot for a feature potentially, you know, and like, I did a, you know, a season of Stargirl was six months of work.
00:56:24:11 – 00:56:50:50
Shawn McBee
The real sweet spot would be a 22 episode hourlong TV show, because. And you’re working for ten months and you have two months off between seasons, and then you just come back like I would love at this point, just because I hate looking for a job, I would just love to get on like a procedural, you know, like one of those police procedurals, like a law and order that’s just going to run for 40 years.
00:56:50:55 – 00:56:57:43
Shawn McBee
And I can just keep coming back season after season and not have to look for a job for years.
00:56:57:48 – 00:57:00:26
Agent Palmer
That I mean, that that I think that’s everyone’s story.
00:57:00:35 – 00:57:22:57
Shawn McBee
I mean, I filled in for a couple of weeks on, the resident witch shoots here, and that’s that thing. It’s 22 episode seasons. They’re off for two months. And I was just so jealous of the graphic designer I was because I was filling in for her while she went on a trip to England. And I was like, look, if you like England, you should stay.
00:57:22:57 – 00:57:26:06
Shawn McBee
I mean, they have Harry Potter.
00:57:26:11 – 00:57:41:32
Agent Palmer
Well, my my best to you for finding that sweet gig. But obviously you have other things to fill your time. So, with, with the podcast network survive, if you got the sweet gig with.
00:57:41:37 – 00:58:10:38
Shawn McBee
Oh, that’s. The thing is, I’m setting up the podcast network to, basically be self-sustaining. So, I’ve learned with the limited free time that I have because, you know, even though my, my work hours are still, like, are the least intensive of most people in the film industry, it’s still ten hours a day plus a commute, you know?
00:58:10:50 – 00:58:11:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Okay.
00:58:11:35 – 00:58:47:42
Shawn McBee
It doesn’t leave a super lot of time for the for projects. So I’ve learned to make things simple and automated. So, I’ve built the websites for the podcasts so that when a podcast is posted, it automatically generates a blog entry on the website. Yep. Which is fantastic. And so the network site will have a front page with a collection of all the most recent episodes across the network from all the shows, I’ve figured out how to get that all done.
00:58:47:55 – 00:59:16:08
Shawn McBee
It’s going to be great. The podcast, producers, hosts will manage their own podcasts. I was the happiest. Yeah. I was previously on a podcast network where, because of the plan the hosting was on, we couldn’t log in and do our own stuff. We had to send everything to the host, and he had to upload it and or to the the podcast network guy.
00:59:16:12 – 00:59:28:12
Shawn McBee
He had to upload it and do all that stuff. And, that’s not for me. I’m making it the least work for me, the most benefit for all the shows. That’s that’s what I’m looking at.
00:59:28:17 – 00:59:31:07
Agent Palmer
I like it, that’s the way it should be.
00:59:31:11 – 00:59:41:11
Shawn McBee
Yeah. And like table reads, for example. I don’t know how much editing you do. I hope it’s a lot because we’ve gone some like that Batman tangent. Right. I totally left field.
00:59:41:16 – 00:59:56:39
Agent Palmer
I mean I edit a lot, but I try and keep it natural. Like I tell people, I edit and everybody knows I edit, but I never want you to know, like where the cuts are.
00:59:56:43 – 00:59:58:48
Shawn McBee
So you, you said you’ve listened to table reads.
00:59:59:02 – 00:59:59:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:59:59:58 – 01:00:03:17
Shawn McBee
There’s almost no editing there. Like I haven’t laid in.
01:00:03:17 – 01:00:32:49
Agent Palmer
But I’m sure. But I’m okay. But I’m jealous of that because like, like I, I there’s a perfectionist in me that will never let me cut this and hit publish, even without the intro and outro stuff like that. I do in post. But I am still jealous of shows that are completely unedited and unscripted. I don’t think they work for me, I think, and sometimes they work for others.
01:00:32:49 – 01:00:36:55
Agent Palmer
But that’s a slippery slope you have to know going in to.
01:00:37:06 – 01:01:07:45
Shawn McBee
So the the intro, all the music, all the sound effects, the, the break for the ads, all of that is done live on the fly. And I will edit if we go on some weird, like, long tangent that gets us nowhere. Like we we had a whole conversation about the 3/5 compromise in one episode that just, had nothing to do with anything and was a little cringey to listen to.
01:01:07:45 – 01:01:30:27
Shawn McBee
So, you know, I cut it out. Things like that. But, you know, I’m not recording us reading and then having to go in and editing the the intro and lay music bad or any of that. I run all that like it’s a live show because, you know, when I was a teenager, I hung out at radio stations.
01:01:30:32 – 01:01:32:32
Shawn McBee
Yeah, I mean, it’s the nerdiest thing ever.
01:01:32:47 – 01:01:49:13
Agent Palmer
Honestly, most of the people I know that are in podcasting had some kind of radio past, even even young kids that, like, just did it at summer camp for a little bit, like everybody kind of got that in the background. And if you didn’t, you’re kind of like the anomaly.
01:01:49:18 – 01:02:18:28
Shawn McBee
Yeah, I had a public access ham radio show when I was 18. You know, it’s like I was super into my, my best friend and I when we were in high school, I would go, on the weekends, I would spend the night at his house and we would he had a whole, like, studio set up in his bedroom, and we would record a radio show and pretend it was going out over the air and just record it on a cassette tape.
01:02:18:33 – 01:02:26:18
Shawn McBee
And we had sketches and we played music. It is the nerdiest thing I have ever been a part of.
01:02:26:18 – 01:02:28:54
Agent Palmer
It is podcast thing before podcasting.
01:02:28:58 – 01:02:32:32
Shawn McBee
We do it until it, but nobody heard it. Literally nobody there.
01:02:32:47 – 01:02:39:58
Agent Palmer
Hey somebody look, I know, I know, I’m just saying there are some podcasts out, some people, that’s their podcast.
01:02:40:05 – 01:02:59:28
Shawn McBee
Yeah. I mean, it was pretty much the same thing when we were on the radio. Our our slogan was we Rock two blocks was a very low powered, a Am radio station. And we were on at midnight.
01:02:59:33 – 01:03:33:38
Agent Palmer
For me, two things emerge from the conversation you just heard first, and perhaps most obvious, no one. No one likes looking for a job, and job security may be the most under discussed piece of the employment puzzle with salary, benefits, location and workload being more near the top of that list. For those in an industry like entertainment, whether you are a graphic designer like Shawn or an actor, director or producer, your current project is only your job until it is over.
01:03:33:42 – 01:03:57:05
Agent Palmer
For a movie, that prospect is commonly a one and done. And even if it is a franchise, you’re not working until the next film starts for television. As you heard Sean describe. Will it get picked up? Won’t it? Will the person above you in the chain of command remain? And if so, will you? There are so many variables.
01:03:57:05 – 01:04:22:17
Agent Palmer
The job security is never a guarantee for Hollywood. It comes as part of the industry. But for creatives and people that work from job to job finishing one thing just means the start of the search for the next. And like the details of Shawn’s job that often get overlooked for the special effects explosions, those little things still add up to make a great piece.
01:04:22:32 – 01:04:45:28
Agent Palmer
It all counts. Now, my second thing is significant to all of the creators out there with at least two things going. You’ve published two books, you’ve created two podcasts, you have a podcast and a blog, or two blogs or a Twitch stream, a YouTube channel. You have more than one creative outlet or pursuit, and you do them both.
01:04:45:33 – 01:05:09:36
Agent Palmer
But your main one is not related to success. It is related to how much fun you have with it. And don’t think for a moment that it’s not all fun because all passion projects are, but they are also work, and fun and work are at times interchangeable because we have fun working on our passion projects and at other times they aren’t.
01:05:09:40 – 01:05:35:53
Agent Palmer
I don’t have a favorite podcast because I have just the one, but if I’m being completely honest, I do prefer the blog to be my main passion, despite the fact that measurably, I’m guessing the podcast could easily become more or at least as successful in much less time. I guess that’s just the nature of enjoying two things or more.
01:05:35:57 – 01:06:01:42
Agent Palmer
You always gravitate a little bit more towards one maybe. I guess. Who knows. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 46. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer.
01:06:01:42 – 01:06:31:52
Agent Palmer
You can find my guest, Shawn McBee, on his podcasts at the Table Reads or at Stargirl Pod, or on his podcast network at Phantom Limb Media. And this show you can find at The Palmer Files. You can also see the network fandom, limb.com or Sean’s Shows Table Reads podcast, Dot com, Stargirl aftershow, Dot com, and of course my writings and rantings can be found on Agent palmer.com.
01:06:31:56 – 01:06:40:28
Agent Palmer
Email can also be sent to this show. The Palmer Files at gmail dot com.
01:06:40:32 – 01:06:54:51
Unknown
You.
01:06:54:56 – 01:07:07:22
Unknown
See?
01:07:07:27 – 01:07:18:13
Unknown
Me.
01:07:18:18 – 01:07:21:51
Unknown
Even.
01:07:21:56 – 01:07:24:12
Agent Palmer
All right. Sean, do you have one final question for me?
01:07:24:25 – 01:07:38:09
Shawn McBee
Yes. So you said that you’ve been unemployed for a while, and you’re waiting for that thing to appear. That’s going to be the perfect fit for you in your mind. What is that thing?
01:07:38:13 – 01:08:19:15
Agent Palmer
I still haven’t figured it out yet, but I have narrowed it down. I am a content creator. I think that the this podcast, my blog, these are things that have sustained me throughout my unemployment. So I feel like there obviously were there skill sets I have that are worth holding on to. But I spent ten years at one point working for a nonprofit, and the idea of going back and just doing work for a mission as opposed to for a profit, seems very appealing to me.
01:08:19:19 – 01:08:50:49
Agent Palmer
But nonprofits are disappearing left and right, so I feel like right now it ends up being just how can I help people tell their story? I think that might be my sweet spot. I talked to. I’ve been one of the things, I’ve been doing as I’ve been out of work is talking to people as much as possible, just networking, like, hey, I know you may not be hiring, but just talk to me so I can find out what’s going on, not just in my area, but just in general.
01:08:50:49 – 01:09:26:42
Agent Palmer
And I had a conversation with a I think he was an accountant or, financial firm guy. What? He was in finance. And he said, we got lucky that we have somebody like you that we were forthright enough to hire five years ago, what have you. Whatever. But talking to other professional people, lawyers, other accountants, etc., they’re going to need you, but they don’t know they need you, and you won’t be able to convince them that.
01:09:26:47 – 01:09:50:44
Agent Palmer
You just have to wait until they come to that conclusion on their own, because nobody’s going to spend money on you unless it’s their idea. So here I am, like just maintaining, you know, trying to keep as many contacts and balls as I can in the air, keeping my skills up and hoping that one day I’ll be able to help somebody tell their story.
01:09:50:49 – 01:09:52:23
Agent Palmer
That will pay me.
01:09:52:28 – 01:09:59:48
Shawn McBee
You should probably start talking to some people down at your local NPR affiliate.
01:09:59:52 – 01:10:04:28
Agent Palmer
Ironically, I am on the board of my local NPR affiliate.
01:10:04:33 – 01:10:14:46
Shawn McBee
Well, that seems like an in. You should maybe figure something out with that, because that’s what you’re doing right now. This is an NPR show, basically.
01:10:14:46 – 01:10:39:09
Agent Palmer
But I’m there like, I will I’m circling. Look, when I lost my job a year and a half, two years ago or whatever, it was, I was so much farther away from the answer. You just got that even just being this much closer makes me feel like it’s it’s a victory. It’s not 100% victory, but closer.
01:10:39:13 – 01:10:45:03
Shawn McBee
It’s all you can do. Keep getting closer until you’re standing on your target.
01:10:45:08 – 01:10:47:33
Agent Palmer
I mean, that sounds like a plan.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).