Episode 88 features Christopher J. Hughes, returning for his third time, the first was for friendship, the second was for celebration and now he’s here to discuss the movie he made, “They Sleep On Us.” (And I helped).
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- So you made a movie?
- Being at your own movie premiere
- Friends help each other
- The transition from a solo project to a collaboration
- What’s next?
- Not JUST a football movie
- Anyone can do this
- Learn from experience
- Do the thing
- The big moment of finishing a large project
- Large one-off projects vs. ongoing projects
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:01:22 – 00:00:24:29
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com Suellen Hoy has all the dirt on the American pursuit of cleanliness. A look back at 2022 and those compilation episodes are more work than the average episode, but they’re just as fun. This is The Palmer Files episode 88 with Christopher J. Hughes returning for his third time. The first was for friendship, the second was for celebration, and now he’s here to discuss the movie he made.
00:00:24:32 – 00:00:51:59
Agent Palmer
They sleep on us and I helped. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:52:04 – 00:00:59:53
Agent Palmer
He’s.
00:00:59:58 – 00:01:28:54
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 88th episode is Christopher J. Hughes, a friend, a collaborator, an editor, and now a movie maker. The movie They Sleep on Us is a documentary about the Lackawanna College Falcons football team and their journey through the days leading up to the 2019 National Junior College Athletic Association Championship in Pittsburgh, Kansas, against three time champions Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College.
00:01:28:58 – 00:01:51:15
Agent Palmer
What you are about to hear is how Chris created this documentary and what this documentary means to him. This is a process story, but it’s also inspirational in full disclosure, as you’ll soon learn, I helped on this film, but the sentiment of both Chris and myself is the same throughout this conversation and our regular lives. If we can do this, so can you.
00:01:51:20 – 00:02:11:35
Agent Palmer
You will hear us discuss the feeling of finishing the film, being at your own movie premiere. One off project’s first ongoing projects, learning from our Mistakes, what’s Next, and more. Before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all contact information for Chris and myself in the show notes.
00:02:11:44 – 00:02:29:51
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget, you can see all of my ratings from rantings on Agent palmer.com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. Com so without further ado, it’s time to get things started.
00:02:29:56 – 00:02:32:01
Agent Palmer
So you made a movie,
00:02:32:05 – 00:02:39:05
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Who let it? Who? Let me do that?
00:02:39:10 – 00:02:42:49
Christopher J. Hughes
I, I still it’s still hard to believe it’s done. It really is.
00:02:43:04 – 00:03:23:35
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, well, the the it’ll be released to the world eventually, but for now, let’s go with the big thing. Right? Like I was up with you and at the end of October of last year, and we saw it on with other people. Well, with other people, but on the big screen. So I guess on a big screen and I know you saw it with the, differently, also on the big screen, but like for me, in this process, as people will learn, like I watched most of this movie through a discord on your screen like I did, I only saw this through your eyes, basically.
00:03:23:42 – 00:03:24:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So yeah.
00:03:24:56 – 00:03:26:38
Christopher J. Hughes
God bless you. You stand with me.
00:03:26:42 – 00:03:27:34
Agent Palmer
The theater?
00:03:27:45 – 00:03:28:32
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:03:28:37 – 00:03:34:57
Agent Palmer
With your family and your friends and members of the coaching staff.
00:03:35:02 – 00:03:48:24
Christopher J. Hughes
And the, you know, the college community. So the Lackawanna College community, there were a couple folks there as well, even some folks from my current job, with, with the city of Scranton. So that was there was definitely some, some folks there.
00:03:48:24 – 00:03:54:11
Agent Palmer
And I was across the aisle from you. And I know we, we, we locked eyes at certain points throughout the movie, but.
00:03:54:11 – 00:03:56:08
Christopher J. Hughes
Like a couple of key points that we love.
00:03:56:13 – 00:04:20:22
Agent Palmer
But you were sitting there, and obviously the first big moment. No spoilers here because this is just the way films are done is a Christopher J. Hughes film on the big screen, sitting next to your family that has just heard I’m in my office trying to make a movie for the last years. So. Yeah, what what is that?
00:04:20:22 – 00:04:27:28
Agent Palmer
And but just that moment, like a Christopher J. You know, bigger you know, it’s because your house is right there with your name on it.
00:04:27:28 – 00:04:52:00
Christopher J. Hughes
I could cry right now thinking about I’m you. You’re looking at me. I’m, like, getting choked up just thinking about it. It’s, It’s wild. It’s, And, you know, it’s wild for so many reasons. Like, I think that for me, this project, they sleep on us was like an albatross for almost like three years. Right? I made a trailer.
00:04:52:05 – 00:05:13:48
Christopher J. Hughes
I think the trailer was December of 2020. So like a year after this whole thing, like I made a trailer. And the funny thing is, like, as we were leading up, somebody said to me and somebody in the film said, we are, you see, cut another trailer. And I was like, I can’t make a better trailer. Like, I gave you the best trailer I could when I was making it.
00:05:13:48 – 00:05:41:55
Christopher J. Hughes
Like when I made that trailer, it was within ten, and I was thinking about this right before we were going to jump on, for this, this call and, I. Originally this whole project was going to be very much like a promotional type of thing. So when, when this started, the world was nine months into Covid.
00:05:42:06 – 00:06:26:31
Christopher J. Hughes
Yep. Right. And, Well, excuse me, when the when the trailer released, the world was nine months into Covid, so like many other aspects of the job that I had at Lackawanna College at the time, I felt personally responsible or was made to feel personally responsible for the success of so many programs. Football included, you know, and I don’t begrudge that, but I think being able to kind of separate myself from the college a little bit and to actually make a thing that was a good thing and not a good promotional thing.
00:06:26:33 – 00:06:34:08
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Although it it still very much is a good promotional thing, but not with it being the sole intent. I think that made a world of.
00:06:34:13 – 00:06:47:57
Agent Palmer
So I have a lot to say just on that alone. But we we’re gonna we’re going to start with this right. And I want, I want to I want to take over for a moment. You are working on this film nights and weekends.
00:06:48:02 – 00:06:48:37
Christopher J. Hughes
00:06:49:43 – 00:06:50:31
Agent Palmer
You know, you cut the.
00:06:50:31 – 00:06:51:36
Christopher J. Hughes
Trailer for the extra.
00:06:51:36 – 00:06:58:06
Agent Palmer
Hours. Yeah. You cut the trailer nine months later, but you’re also kind of in it seeing what you have and, and.
00:06:58:12 – 00:07:00:39
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, nine months into the pandemic. So almost a year. Yeah.
00:07:00:43 – 00:07:02:09
Agent Palmer
A year after the game.
00:07:02:09 – 00:07:02:27
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:07:02:32 – 00:07:06:09
Agent Palmer
00:07:06:14 – 00:07:10:00
Agent Palmer
And I, you and I talk every day. We talk.
00:07:10:02 – 00:07:10:49
Christopher J. Hughes
To more times a day.
00:07:11:02 – 00:07:14:03
Agent Palmer
Every morning. We talk it at least every day. Every morning.
00:07:14:03 – 00:07:17:06
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. It’s like the old telecommute when I used to work in, in journalism.
00:07:17:10 – 00:07:31:25
Agent Palmer
So, and, and look for a very long time we have helped each other on whatever it happened to be, you know, my blog, your business, my business, the podcast.
00:07:31:29 – 00:07:34:15
Christopher J. Hughes
All the way back to your your capstone. Yep.
00:07:34:20 – 00:07:35:52
Agent Palmer
So everything right.
00:07:35:52 – 00:07:40:44
Christopher J. Hughes
And so 20 years of this shit together.
00:07:40:49 – 00:07:42:10
Agent Palmer
So so I’m.
00:07:42:10 – 00:07:43:30
Christopher J. Hughes
And you keep coming back.
00:07:43:30 – 00:08:05:06
Agent Palmer
I know and and so despite the fact that you don’t want me to as we’ll get to in a second. Because so so the way this works is we talk all the time and I hear you complain about this movie over and over and over again. And at a certain point I’m like, dude, can I help you? You’re like, no, nobody can help me.
00:08:05:11 – 00:08:21:23
Agent Palmer
You literally said, nobody can help me. This is you saying nobody can help me then. So I went through it. I literally went, what do you have? And you sent me a little bit of what you had, right? And I went, well, let’s just break it down into a DVD.
00:08:21:23 – 00:08:29:04
Christopher J. Hughes
I think at that point I probably had the opening sequence, which was a cell phone video.
00:08:29:07 – 00:08:30:54
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:08:30:59 – 00:08:38:00
Christopher J. Hughes
The title sequence and maybe some of the cast of characters at that point. If I’m if I’m remembering where I was.
00:08:38:01 – 00:08:52:48
Agent Palmer
And you, you, I mean, and have because of our conversations and and the little you sent me because you didn’t send me everything. No, I knew what you had and kind of what you were going for. And I just broke it down to the DVD chapters or what the equivalent of DVD chapters would be, and it.
00:08:52:50 – 00:08:53:59
Christopher J. Hughes
Was game changing.
00:08:54:00 – 00:08:55:43
Agent Palmer
How about you do it this way?
00:08:55:48 – 00:08:57:18
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh my God.
00:08:57:23 – 00:09:00:43
Agent Palmer
And that was the moment that you like basically me.
00:09:00:43 – 00:09:02:35
Christopher J. Hughes
All the all the lights, one on.
00:09:02:38 – 00:09:10:47
Agent Palmer
Me. Putting it into outline form was me putting my foot in the door. And you went, oh, okay, welcome. Come in.
00:09:10:52 – 00:09:16:18
Christopher J. Hughes
Grab his. Please, sir, welcome to the welcome to the project.
00:09:16:23 – 00:09:34:29
Agent Palmer
And I and I haven’t asked you this, but I do know that, like up to that point, you would cut things down to like you had a section that was not that. What you were going for was not dissimilar to what I organized right. But you had like, here’s 20 minutes. And I said, send it to me. And I cut it down.
00:09:34:29 – 00:09:44:17
Agent Palmer
I said, this is this is what you need. Bare minimum. Like, you don’t need this other stuff or whatever. And I was the first pair of fresh eyes to see the raw cuts.
00:09:44:32 – 00:09:45:14
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:09:45:18 – 00:10:09:48
Agent Palmer
And and what you had put together and I don’t know because I never stopped to ask you. This is one of those things that you and I very rarely get a chance to do. What was it like to get like that outside perspective. You and I end up ended up creating a system with which to run, you know, make each other laugh, yell at each other, all that kind of stuff.
00:10:09:53 – 00:10:19:43
Agent Palmer
But like in the very beginning, what’s it like going from solo project to like, oh, he’s actually got some like feedback.
00:10:19:48 – 00:10:47:01
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, I’m not used to that. Because for so many things in my life, and I would say both personally and professionally, my attitude and very often my reality has been if I don’t get it done, nobody else will. Right. And so I think because of that, I have a hard time letting people in the projects.
00:10:47:06 – 00:11:13:27
Christopher J. Hughes
I obviously trust you inherently. I mean, I think we’ve talked about this. I wouldn’t have attended. I probably wouldn’t have made it to my first kid’s birth if you didn’t let me borrow your Jeep in college. All right. So there’s an inherent trust between you and I, but, we’ve never done anything. We’ve always done things in a professional manner, but we’ve never done things professionally.
00:11:13:32 – 00:11:15:13
Agent Palmer
That’s true. We’ve always like and.
00:11:15:26 – 00:11:24:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Like and like we like. We’ve helped each other with the businesses and things like that. But they were always the everything, always felt like it could never get out. A start up phase.
00:11:24:43 – 00:11:49:28
Agent Palmer
I think the other piece to it was, we never thought about the end. Like, if you look at everything you and I have ever done outside of this film, we’ve only ever done open ended things. When you start a business, you don’t start it with an end in mind. I started a blog not knowing when it would end, this podcast not knowing when it would end.
00:11:49:34 – 00:12:12:40
Agent Palmer
You started the Twitch stuff. We were you were doing. You were doing deviant art. We were doing building websites and stuff. All of these things are small projects, but they’re all ongoing. None of them are ever like haven’t. And sometimes they stop or they pause or they hiatus, but they don’t write. Ever. Really. And this was the first thing we’ve ever undertaken that was not going to go on.
00:12:12:46 – 00:12:13:15
Agent Palmer
Like.
00:12:13:20 – 00:12:16:02
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, we know we had to finish the damn thing.
00:12:16:02 – 00:12:34:30
Agent Palmer
Well. And, and even if like and I say this because it’s done like even if it had taken us another year, there was an end in sight. Like there was always an end in sight. It’s not like there’s, you know, the many the other things we just mentioned were they’re all open ended. Right? And that for you and me, like that was a huge.
00:12:34:30 – 00:12:34:48
Christopher J. Hughes
It’s a big.
00:12:34:53 – 00:12:36:19
Agent Palmer
Difference because like a.
00:12:36:19 – 00:12:36:53
Christopher J. Hughes
Big moment.
00:12:36:53 – 00:12:44:46
Agent Palmer
There, I don’t okay I’m skipping to the end for a second. So we finish this and I go yeah. So what’s next.
00:12:44:46 – 00:12:48:13
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. You fucker.
00:12:48:18 – 00:12:52:39
Agent Palmer
Because we because we always do these open ended things. So they’re always.
00:12:52:39 – 00:13:02:58
Christopher J. Hughes
You didn’t even give me like yet. Okay, Tony, you can rest now. Like you didn’t even give me my, my, I, I barely took a breath. And you’re like, so a fiction.
00:13:03:10 – 00:13:19:55
Agent Palmer
Yep. Like yep. Scripted. Scripted. Right. You know, but but I mean, the point is, this was the thing that we can say, like, this was the big project. We can do one off big thing. We we can we I think we always knew we could do the ongoing thing because we were in it all the time. We could do it going.
00:13:19:55 – 00:13:47:48
Christopher J. Hughes
You can chunk out the ongoing, you can do in pieces and ongoing means you you keep going. You don’t have to, What the. I guess what’s kind of nice about ongoing is you can change the, the the goalposts, and you can always move the chains. Here I am talking fucking football metaphors. Jesus. But but we always move the chains because the the world around us continues to.
00:13:47:48 – 00:13:50:10
Agent Palmer
And we want to change like.
00:13:50:15 – 00:14:17:51
Christopher J. Hughes
We we know that. I mean, we’re we’re you’re I think you’re a little closer, but we’re almost in our 40s. Yeah. So, so staying relevant and staying informed and staying talented are critical right now because you, you know, when you when you look at some of the landscape, you know, I know that there’s a lot of folks, that are worried about like the creep of AI, but.
00:14:18:02 – 00:14:32:36
Christopher J. Hughes
And what you know, I think, assisted creating is, is helpful. Yep. But there’s always got to be somebody to do the thing. Yeah. And I don’t want to get into a do the thing.
00:14:32:36 – 00:14:54:09
Agent Palmer
No, no. But we. Hey. But I have never been afraid of it. And that’s how we end up here, right? Because you. Right. You know, you jumped in and there were. You had, whether you believe it or not. And I know your connection to Lackawanna. And that’s a very different animal. But but you had many opportunities to walk away if you had wanted to know from.
00:14:54:09 – 00:14:55:06
Christopher J. Hughes
The college or from the.
00:14:55:06 – 00:14:58:27
Agent Palmer
Movie, from the movie you had you had.
00:14:58:32 – 00:15:05:07
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. You don’t, but you don’t. See. Now, I started okay, in saying that if I didn’t do it, nobody was going to do it.
00:15:05:07 – 00:15:12:15
Agent Palmer
Yes, but but the point is, like, you could have walked away if they really wanted it. They could have gotten somebody, you know, etcetera to. But, you know.
00:15:12:15 – 00:15:18:51
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Because I, I quit the college for another job three and a half months before this movie date. Yeah.
00:15:18:56 – 00:15:19:19
Agent Palmer
Now.
00:15:19:32 – 00:15:22:41
Christopher J. Hughes
But the right thing to do was to finish it.
00:15:22:46 – 00:15:23:35
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah.
00:15:23:35 – 00:15:29:13
Christopher J. Hughes
And there’s, there’s a whole the hero complex discussion we get, get into there.
00:15:29:18 – 00:15:35:27
Agent Palmer
Well, I, I mean, so I knew so you got you introduced the movie at the premiere.
00:15:35:32 – 00:15:36:38
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:36:42 – 00:15:39:10
Agent Palmer
And.
00:15:39:15 – 00:15:50:53
Christopher J. Hughes
And I, I need to say that I need to repeat this because it’s the God’s honest truth. I said that this movie would not exist without me, but it certainly would not exist without you as well.
00:15:50:56 – 00:16:16:02
Agent Palmer
Well, and I will say, I don’t. I don’t think it exists without. Your connection to the college. And I’m not talking about your employment connection to the college. I’m talking about your dad being there and your sister being there and you being there. This was part of the reason why some of the discussions you and I had while making the movie was.
00:16:16:07 – 00:16:23:46
Agent Palmer
Chris, you need to tell a good story. You don’t need the shine. The college in the best light all the time, right? And it was.
00:16:23:51 – 00:16:26:40
Christopher J. Hughes
And even in doing so, we did a fantastic job.
00:16:26:40 – 00:16:49:27
Agent Palmer
But but it was it was almost one of those things like I, I think I you it’s one of those things that I think, producers or director people that are assisting, right, that are facilitating, like the actors on screen or the person recording the material or whatever, like you tell them things that you know, they know, but they need to hear.
00:16:49:32 – 00:17:01:06
Agent Palmer
Like, I don’t think you needed to be told this can be a great movie and we can show some of the works, like, that’s fine, but you need to hear that because like, you’re in.
00:17:01:06 – 00:17:23:51
Christopher J. Hughes
A oh, there were definitely moments where I was worried about how to shine it. Yeah. And I, I think if you, for anybody who does get a chance to watch this and I’m, I’m hoping after May, the college usually has a spring given. May, I’m hoping after May we can put this out to the masses. You know, I don’t want to get ahead of any questions you have, but I have things I’d like to see done with it.
00:17:23:56 – 00:17:47:51
Christopher J. Hughes
But it does have its warts, you know, it it is, it is a nicer version of Last Chance. You for anybody who likes those sort of junior college football stories, but it’s still a junior college football story. And there’s, there’s rough language. Yeah, there’s an entire sequence that like, you can’t hear half of what people are saying because I had to bleep out so much.
00:17:47:52 – 00:17:50:56
Agent Palmer
No. And that’s fine, I, I just but it’s real.
00:17:50:56 – 00:17:51:34
Christopher J. Hughes
It’s very.
00:17:51:34 – 00:18:14:25
Agent Palmer
Real. And I, I like the authenticity of it. And I think part of, part of the amazing thing to me in working on this with you was, your foresight. And I think if, if, if I had been there from the beginning, I think I would have only tweaked about two things. As far as the things you shot.
00:18:14:30 – 00:18:27:45
Agent Palmer
But outside of that, you shot almost everything you could. And I think that it gave us not necessarily that much more to work with, but we were flexible in the things we could do.
00:18:27:50 – 00:18:57:00
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. I mean, I did the math at one point. I think when you add in the actual footage of the game itself, the actual broadcast that we got permission from the National Junior College Athletic Association and CBS sports vicariously to use when you add that to my footage and the GoPro footage that the kids shot before I even set foot in Kansas, there’s 19 total hours of footage, 19 to 19.5 total hours of footage.
00:18:57:07 – 00:19:16:32
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, it’s insane. And I was one guy on my feet for three days. Yeah. And I’m, I’m really proud of the fact that from the point where the kids, well, the the coaches, the coaching staff is eating breakfast, to the point where, the.
00:19:16:32 – 00:19:17:01
Agent Palmer
Game kicks.
00:19:17:01 – 00:19:26:24
Christopher J. Hughes
Off, the game starts. Yeah. I think there might be four shots in that hour that aren’t mine.
00:19:26:26 – 00:19:40:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah, there’s a couple that we can tell our GoPro stuff, you know. Yeah. But otherwise it’s yours. And, you know, I that was a lot of, your old journalism, I feel.
00:19:40:23 – 00:20:05:48
Christopher J. Hughes
I mean, I you tell me what. Yeah, I shot everything. Yeah. And I and I didn’t, I didn’t look away. I looked for things that were happening when people weren’t paying attention. One of my favorite sequences, in the film itself, is during their last practice, and it’s the two kickers on the sideline just shooting the shit with each other, and it’s a very real conversation.
00:20:05:48 – 00:20:27:49
Christopher J. Hughes
They’re not having it because I’m filming them. I’m filming them because they’re having it. And I think that’s why some of the audience kind of city, and that’s actually because, like, I was like, I was I was like, look, look at these two wild creatures talking about their football game, you know, like it was I’m God, what a beauty.
00:20:27:54 – 00:20:53:51
Christopher J. Hughes
It’s and so it is there’s, there is an authenticity to it because all these kids know is how to be real. Yeah. And a lot of what makes life livable for these kids is junior college football. But like, I love that sequence. And I also remember vividly at the end of the game that spoiler alert, the Lackawanna College does not win the 2019 NCCa Football Championship.
00:20:53:51 – 00:21:11:27
Christopher J. Hughes
Spoiler. Google it. Sorry, but I remember very clearly and it was so there’s a there’s a shot in the movie where one of the players is like, pick your head up. We know we still got time. There’s like four minutes left in the game. So we got time. You you were tell me the first half we got time.
00:21:11:32 – 00:21:37:52
Christopher J. Hughes
And it’s in the film and I love that moment. But I remember there was probably about two minutes left in the game and, the quarterbacks and specialists coach wife was taking photos on the sideline. And I met her before kickoff. So I had known her all of 30s 2.5 hours ago, and I flagged her dice at Mars.
00:21:37:52 – 00:22:00:45
Christopher J. Hughes
I said, whatever happens, don’t stop shooting. And she was like, what do you mean? I was like, we’re at a point now where we are past promotion and we are. We are documenting. This is it. We have a hometown newspaper back home that is looking for photos from us. Yeah. No matter what happens, we’re going to be at least the front page of the sports section.
00:22:00:50 – 00:22:04:22
Christopher J. Hughes
Shoot everything that happens, even if it doesn’t feel good.
00:22:04:29 – 00:22:12:59
Agent Palmer
And and at this point, you’re still a member of the college communication staff as you’re shooting it. So like that’s an important thing for you.
00:22:13:02 – 00:22:14:42
Christopher J. Hughes
Do wisdom wire kick back.
00:22:14:44 – 00:22:31:19
Agent Palmer
Well and you’ve got a video camera not a still camera. She’s got the still camera. So it makes a difference for you to say that as opposed to my I. Although I would have loved to watch you double barreled the thing with like a still camera. And the video.
00:22:31:24 – 00:22:49:33
Christopher J. Hughes
Just put the symbols between my legs, for crying out loud. So but I do. I remember that moment, and that’s a moment that I only had with her, but I remember it, and I, I mean, the the action shots that we sent to the people were very much what you would expect football action shots to look like.
00:22:49:37 – 00:23:14:08
Christopher J. Hughes
But I, I think if I remember correctly, there’s a photo of, of one of the kids, he’s got crazy long hair. I think it’s JL no, I think of it. And his teammate is he’s he’s got his hand extended. He’s pulling him up after these kids are just destitute after losing this game. And I don’t know if she would have taken that photo.
00:23:14:08 – 00:23:32:07
Christopher J. Hughes
I’ll fight it and say, don’t stop shooting. That’s fair. And and I, I mean, for the whole three days I was there, I did not stop shooting. So I had to make sure. And this this is the other thing I had to make sure somebody else did the job that I would have done, because if I were doing photos, that’s what you would do.
00:23:32:07 – 00:23:41:21
Christopher J. Hughes
I would have taken those shots. You know, they’re not flattering, but sometimes the words are are pretty. I, you know, like.
00:23:41:23 – 00:23:50:34
Agent Palmer
I mean, so I have a couple questions for you. The first is going into look, look, I know, you’re a Giants fan.
00:23:50:38 – 00:23:51:29
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:23:51:34 – 00:23:59:06
Agent Palmer
But you don’t have a college football team. You’re not, I do, I have many. You don’t have a college football team, do you? Do you have a.
00:23:59:11 – 00:24:01:32
Christopher J. Hughes
Do I now? I think I do now.
00:24:01:37 – 00:24:24:36
Agent Palmer
Well, that wasn’t the question. I was like, how much have you learned about football? Like, even even knowing you’re a Giants fan, I don’t know you to be a person that sits down on Sunday for four hours. So like, I know going through some of the stuff, right? Like and I have the ability to get, I have a podcast high a verbose right, like I can, I can, but.
00:24:24:36 – 00:24:26:30
Christopher J. Hughes
You verbose.
00:24:26:35 – 00:24:28:15
Agent Palmer
So I would tell you, I edit.
00:24:28:15 – 00:24:30:31
Christopher J. Hughes
Your blogs like.
00:24:30:35 – 00:24:44:09
Agent Palmer
I would tell you things that like, I like I was part of the education I think a little bit. Yeah. But like, I don’t know. Do you understand why I spend 12 hours watching college football on Saturdays? Now a little bit.
00:24:44:14 – 00:24:47:12
Christopher J. Hughes
I, I understand why I don’t understand how.
00:24:47:21 – 00:24:48:42
Agent Palmer
Okay. That’s fine.
00:24:48:47 – 00:24:53:40
Christopher J. Hughes
And it’s not for lack of love of the game. I just, I wish I had that much time on a Sunday.
00:24:53:40 – 00:24:57:00
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, I’m, I’m doing, I’m doing other things.
00:24:57:00 – 00:25:15:10
Christopher J. Hughes
I know it’s, it’s it’s always in your periphery. But even still, I’m amazed at the ability to have 12 hours of entertainment uninterrupted on the periphery because I, I live in a house with four people who who love TV. Yeah. To relax. And I don’t know how to do that.
00:25:15:15 – 00:25:27:52
Agent Palmer
It’s. I mean, but it’s. You now have not only a movie, but an experience with the reason people fall in love with sport, period. Right. It doesn’t matter what the sport is like. Well, yeah.
00:25:27:57 – 00:25:37:24
Christopher J. Hughes
And we we talked about this often because we, we didn’t we consciously as we got into this, we consciously didn’t make just a football movie.
00:25:37:24 – 00:25:38:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Because you know.
00:25:38:14 – 00:26:02:02
Christopher J. Hughes
Talked story story story all the time because and, and I talked about this when we premiered it in October, you know, a lot of people, even just locally, take the quality of Lackawanna College football for granted. They and they, they give a shit when these kids go to West Virginia in Penn State and, you know, all these wonderful four year schools, there’s nothing wrong with these four year schools.
00:26:02:02 – 00:26:30:25
Christopher J. Hughes
Don’t get me wrong. But these kids play for I think you can get into the stadium for five bucks on Saturday afternoons. Yeah, and it’s the same kids that are going to end up at Penn State. So, you know, if you start here and chatter about them, you you could have access to them. And I. I wanted people to appreciate this team as much as I tried to appreciate all of those students when I was an employee there.
00:26:30:25 – 00:26:34:46
Christopher J. Hughes
And as much as I appreciated being a student when I was a student, if I want to.
00:26:34:51 – 00:26:36:55
Agent Palmer
Okay. I mean, look, I.
00:26:37:00 – 00:26:39:26
Christopher J. Hughes
And I think it rings true. I think it turns out.
00:26:39:33 – 00:26:48:58
Agent Palmer
I think the other reason and I’ll be selfish for a moment. One of the other reasons that I focused on story, story, story, was.
00:26:49:03 – 00:26:53:03
Christopher J. Hughes
You knew you knew I could tell a story. You think I could tell a football story, but.
00:26:53:08 – 00:27:14:12
Agent Palmer
It was also two. There were there were two real reasons why I was very important. It was very important for me that we focus on story. Your mother and my mother because they’re, they’re proud of us and they want to see what we can do. And I didn’t want to put out a movie that neither of them would understand.
00:27:14:12 – 00:27:25:14
Agent Palmer
Like it was very important to me that as non-sports people, your mother and my mother can watch this and, and appreciate it regardless of the football aspect of it. And that was important to me.
00:27:25:14 – 00:27:46:21
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Well, I will add two more, which are my two kids, one of which said, I sat through an entire documentary and you did a great job. And the other said, I sat through a football documentary and you did a great job. It’s hard to it’s hard to keep a 13 year old’s attention on something other than Minecraft and Cookie Clicker, apparently.
00:27:46:21 – 00:28:05:12
Christopher J. Hughes
And and you know, my my 19 year old is not your typical 19 year old. Yeah. And so and they, they were never sports minded. And for them to sit through a football documentary and and maybe not be enriched by it but be engaged with you know.
00:28:05:25 – 00:28:06:58
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Well so because.
00:28:06:58 – 00:28:12:10
Christopher J. Hughes
For seven months, my family heard me say thanks for dinner, I’m going to go work on the movie.
00:28:12:15 – 00:28:32:34
Agent Palmer
Well, and that was because so so there’s a piece to this, right? Like obviously this movie didn’t happen overnight. It took years to make many nights. But the last seven months up to finishing the final draft was us talking in the morning and then me. So we go in tonight. So is it.
00:28:32:43 – 00:28:40:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, we’re going on it. We’re going on the ten most days. It was a yeah I would say almost every day it was. Yeah, yeah.
00:28:40:54 – 00:28:47:58
Agent Palmer
It wasn’t even until the end where we started to have, you know what you need to do. You don’t need me there.
00:28:48:04 – 00:28:52:30
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Yeah. And that was like YouTube shorts and TikToks.
00:28:52:30 – 00:29:01:46
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it you made the movie and is it ever going to feel real?
00:29:01:51 – 00:29:29:26
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh, it’s real okay. It’s real I mean we yeah. You know, there’s some tweaks, you know, as, as we’re discussing this, there’s some tweaks that I still need to make to the IMDb page and stuff like that, but we have what? IMDb page? Yeah, I know for a documentary that we made, and I’m the director and you’re the executive producer, and nobody at the Internet Movie Database questioned the validity of that.
00:29:29:31 – 00:30:00:23
Christopher J. Hughes
Which I don’t know if that’s good for us or bad for them, but it’s there. It exists and and it’s wild because, I need to add that to my LinkedIn profile because that’s cool. Shit. Yeah. You know, and I have an associate degree in communications, and I didn’t go to film school. I just, I think I’ve and I think you’ll agree to this, I, I think I’ve always both enjoyed and had a knack for telling other people’s stories.
00:30:00:28 – 00:30:02:25
Christopher J. Hughes
And I think that’s why this works.
00:30:02:25 – 00:30:10:44
Agent Palmer
I mean, you had a show, I will say, by a graphically, you had that before you became a journalist.
00:30:10:49 – 00:30:11:28
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh, maybe.
00:30:11:35 – 00:30:19:39
Agent Palmer
I, I would say that as somebody who knew you before that career took off. Yeah, you could tell. You could tell a story.
00:30:19:41 – 00:30:27:18
Christopher J. Hughes
You as a as a constantly sleeping fine art student. You saw that in me when I got down that road we talked to.
00:30:27:30 – 00:30:34:59
Agent Palmer
Like, yeah, we had long conversations into the night. And then you fell asleep at 3:00 instead of staying up. I stayed up.
00:30:35:03 – 00:30:37:01
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:37:06 – 00:30:43:13
Agent Palmer
So. But but you always had that. And I think what journalism did, is it refined that for you.
00:30:43:18 – 00:30:43:54
Christopher J. Hughes
00:30:45:08 – 00:31:05:18
Agent Palmer
So you, you were able to tell better stories but you could always tell good stories to begin with. And so does this surprise me. Not really. I mean because the other thing is, you know, you go back to helping me with my capstone. It’s not like like you were you were an improv and you did some theater in high school.
00:31:05:18 – 00:31:17:26
Agent Palmer
But it’s not like you and I knew what we were doing as far as recording audio and narrating stuff. And, yeah, the original is rough, and that’s why I redid it for this podcast. But yeah, but for a.
00:31:17:26 – 00:31:19:54
Christopher J. Hughes
College senior project, it was good.
00:31:19:55 – 00:31:31:44
Agent Palmer
It was good, but it was also I was a communications major, not a radio. Like I wasn’t in multimedia like. Right. You were. You were in communications, but you weren’t really in multimedia.
00:31:31:44 – 00:31:35:21
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, not even at that point. No, I mean, so I was a fine art major.
00:31:35:21 – 00:31:52:43
Agent Palmer
So you and I have, I think, gotten to a point even back in college where we were willing to jump off into the pool even if we’d never swam in it. So whether it was jell o o or water or like soda, like what?
00:31:52:46 – 00:32:00:14
Christopher J. Hughes
It doesn’t what’s what’s been non-Newtonian fluid, I can’t think you would think of it. The just the cornstarch and water. You just you slap it.
00:32:00:14 – 00:32:05:47
Agent Palmer
But but whatever it is, like we’re willing to take, take a chance, a risk.
00:32:05:48 – 00:32:20:55
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, yeah, I, I think you and I, I don’t know if it’s generational, but I know certainly you and I, we’re willing to take the risk because we know that there’s an opportunity to learn even through failure. Well, that’s and probably more through failure.
00:32:21:02 – 00:32:45:33
Agent Palmer
Well, and you and I have been with each other through a lot of those failures. So like we’ve and we’ve learned from it. And I think that the, the odd part about this podcast and us over the US since we finished it is because as I talked about earlier, we have all these ongoing projects we usually only quote unquote debrief after the failures.
00:32:45:38 – 00:32:47:25
Agent Palmer
Right? Like we’ve never.
00:32:47:30 – 00:32:51:19
Christopher J. Hughes
We’ve never talked about this except.
00:32:51:23 – 00:32:56:49
Agent Palmer
Like it’s an it’s so not a normal thing for us. You.
00:32:56:54 – 00:32:58:21
Christopher J. Hughes
But we’re successful.
00:32:58:22 – 00:32:59:04
Agent Palmer
No I don’t.
00:32:59:04 – 00:33:01:47
Christopher J. Hughes
When we go with the success, we go, great. What’s next?
00:33:01:47 – 00:33:02:05
Agent Palmer
That’s.
00:33:02:14 – 00:33:04:04
Christopher J. Hughes
But which is exactly what you.
00:33:04:04 – 00:33:05:18
Agent Palmer
Did to me. That’s exactly it.
00:33:05:29 – 00:33:09:09
Christopher J. Hughes
That it is know, right? I know.
00:33:09:13 – 00:33:33:59
Agent Palmer
But I think the other thing about me going what’s next is because this was a victory, but I want it to be a building block for us. I don’t want this to be a I don’t let’s put it this way. And this is the crappy metaphor everybody uses, but I don’t want this to be the top of the mountain for us.
00:33:33:59 – 00:34:04:33
Christopher J. Hughes
No. And I think that’s the blessing and the curse of having you as a friend. And, a collaborator is you’re never you’re never satisfied. And I think you also see me better than I see myself. So the drive is always there, even if I’m, like, righteous, I just work data. I just had two press conferences that I got to do this thing and and nobody did the dishes.
00:34:04:33 – 00:34:18:00
Christopher J. Hughes
And I got to do that. And this one needs a uniform tomorrow, and that one’s got work two days from now. And like, I think I get crushed by the minutia in my life. But you always go, you can, you can, you can do it.
00:34:18:00 – 00:34:26:33
Agent Palmer
Well, don’t forget. And this is something that has been our dynamic for forever, which is I always want to go and and you’re like, hold up.
00:34:26:38 – 00:34:40:36
Christopher J. Hughes
No, it’s not that you always want to go. It’s that you’ve already gone and you’re two weeks ahead of me. You’ve, you’ve you’ve drawn the map and you go, come, come on, I work, I’m going.
00:34:40:41 – 00:34:52:53
Agent Palmer
Fincher well, well, it’s kind of what I did for stringing you along to finish the film at this point is, is the other thing, because I, I rode you, I, we, we made the map and I went over the map because.
00:34:52:53 – 00:34:55:18
Christopher J. Hughes
It is the Google seat. Yeah.
00:34:55:23 – 00:35:05:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it worked out well, I think, I think I think the processes that we created,
00:35:05:45 – 00:35:09:15
Christopher J. Hughes
What’s cool about the processes that we create is that anybody could do what we did.
00:35:09:26 – 00:35:28:24
Agent Palmer
Anybody could. Yeah. No, I mean, we’re talking about the fact that, yes, you and I are only 90 minutes away, but 90 minutes or 3 hours both ways is a very long commitment if you’re going to do it on a daily basis. So it was just it was just video conferencing and screen sharing. Every night we.
00:35:28:24 – 00:35:57:33
Christopher J. Hughes
Screen shared over discord. We made notes in Google Sheets. We we I would share like rough cuts, over unlisted YouTube videos with you so you could see what I was working on. Like, if I was working without you, like there was, there was a system and there was methodology. And what’s cool was nobody taught us how to do it, and we figured it out as we went, as we have with so many other things that we’ve done, both creatively and personally and professionally.
00:35:57:37 – 00:36:01:44
Christopher J. Hughes
And anybody could do it like I.
00:36:01:49 – 00:36:02:27
Agent Palmer
I.
00:36:02:29 – 00:36:37:16
Christopher J. Hughes
Found out I found out recently that somebody that I used to work with might be writing a book, and they don’t want to get into whom or about what. Okay. But our, our first collective reaction was, oh on what? Yeah. Like on what? Like you and I could probably write, a well detailed blog that would serve somebody better about how we made a movie over discord and Google Docs.
00:36:37:27 – 00:36:42:05
Agent Palmer
Well, and that’s the thing, too, is, yeah.
00:36:42:10 – 00:36:45:49
Christopher J. Hughes
We we made our own frame.io because we have no budget.
00:36:45:49 – 00:37:11:11
Agent Palmer
Well, and, and and what’s funny is you get to become Kevin Smith for a while, right? Because Kevin Smith’s big, big speech and I, I, I find the irony in this is probably just because it’s Kevin Smith, like the Vancouver Film School invites him back every year to speak, and he stands up in front of those students and he says, you don’t need to be here to make a movie.
00:37:11:16 – 00:37:12:28
Christopher J. Hughes
And we proved that.
00:37:12:28 – 00:37:12:55
Agent Palmer
And we.
00:37:12:58 – 00:37:14:09
Christopher J. Hughes
Hypothesize that.
00:37:14:14 – 00:37:18:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah, because we didn’t go to film school. We didn’t even study film.
00:37:18:47 – 00:37:27:54
Christopher J. Hughes
No, no, we I mean, when I studied communications, I had, I think a video production one and a video production to and one audio production.
00:37:27:54 – 00:37:35:54
Agent Palmer
Course, and that puts you miles ahead of me as far as formal education, because I didn’t do any of that. I think I may have take it if I took it.
00:37:35:54 – 00:37:41:29
Christopher J. Hughes
You put out a podcast every two weeks is a miracle.
00:37:41:34 – 00:37:43:29
Agent Palmer
Well, you learn as you go, right?
00:37:43:29 – 00:37:44:47
Christopher J. Hughes
Like, oh my God.
00:37:44:48 – 00:38:11:22
Agent Palmer
I mean, and and look, I, I got to practice on a lot of other people’s shows, right? Like. And that’s as jokey as that is, like, I was quote unquote an intern on some of those other things. So I got to learn all the things right. And and if, if nothing else, our entire collaboration since the very beginning has always been a learn by doing mentality.
00:38:11:26 – 00:38:41:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh, yeah. Like, I almost wish Google Sheets or Google Docs existed 20 years ago because the the amount of don’t fuck it up. But here’s how we did, lessons that we could tell are required. Yeah. And it’s silly, right? Like, I think about some of the stuff that I was doing, you know, when I was at Lackawanna and, like, fillable forms, right?
00:38:41:43 – 00:39:01:58
Christopher J. Hughes
Never had to make a fillable PDF form before. A 15 minute YouTube video. And now it’s part of my repertoire. Like the the amount of things that you could learn to do if you pay attention to the right corners of the internet are incredible. Yeah. No. And they, but we’ll, we’ll get into.
00:39:02:00 – 00:39:25:48
Agent Palmer
Well, well, I was going to say is you don’t even have to pay attention to the internet. Like, if you just pick up something and do it right, like. And is this is the thing, right. The reason that I am in the minority of podcasters using a windows product is because GarageBand came stand for the it doesn’t anymore, but GarageBand came standard, so the what?
00:39:25:53 – 00:39:47:53
Agent Palmer
So the quote unquote fuck around and find out was mainly Apple people that plugged a mic in, could hit record and could edit with built in software. Well, now it you know, you whatever you use, whatever you use. But, it’s that mentality of like, well, let’s, let’s just, let’s just try it, let’s just figure, see what happens, right?
00:39:47:53 – 00:39:54:39
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. What what does this button do. You know, like and my bet is not your that would be the book. What does.
00:39:54:39 – 00:39:55:50
Agent Palmer
This say. Well, lessons.
00:39:55:50 – 00:39:59:06
Christopher J. Hughes
Of failure from, Jason searching.
00:39:59:11 – 00:40:28:28
Agent Palmer
It was funny too, because, like, I remember it’s. You had done some stuff in video, but it’s not like we were experts in premiere or audition going into this. Right? So there was also a learning curve where, like, I remember, I got a crash course in audition for something else, right? And I had learned that you can key bind to select from where you are all the way to the end.
00:40:28:33 – 00:40:31:42
Agent Palmer
And I was like, we need to learn how to do this is for me.
00:40:31:42 – 00:40:43:19
Christopher J. Hughes
I was it’s the it’s the A button. Everybody, if you’re in premiere and you want to select everything from where you’re at to the end of the timeline, it’s the A button.
00:40:43:23 – 00:40:44:11
Agent Palmer
I mean.
00:40:44:15 – 00:40:45:58
Christopher J. Hughes
Hit A and click.
00:40:46:12 – 00:40:47:34
Agent Palmer
It was.
00:40:47:39 – 00:40:48:24
Christopher J. Hughes
Magic.
00:40:48:25 – 00:40:51:57
Agent Palmer
It saved. The movie will still be on The Producers.
00:40:51:59 – 00:40:56:06
Christopher J. Hughes
I had worked on the movie for six months before we figured that out together.
00:40:56:11 – 00:40:59:38
Agent Palmer
And it would still, we’d still be doing it now if you were moving every.
00:40:59:40 – 00:41:25:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Because, like, zoom all the way out and you do the selection. Yeah. Oh my goodness gracious. What the hell was I doing? Even just stupid things. Right. So like I knew this going into the movie, but like stupid things like if you hit the L button twice on your keyboard, if it does play and then it’s two times speed and then it’s four times speed, and then when it gets to eight times three, you can’t hear anything anymore because it would just just slow.
00:41:25:48 – 00:41:54:58
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Yeah. But and then K is pause and J is backwards. Oh magic I that was that was an I have so I, I blame the pandemic in part for pushing the movie back almost three years. But it worked out because it’s the 30th year of Lackawanna football. But because of the pandemic, the Adobe Max conference that goes on every year went virtual in 2020 and 21 and had virtual components that were still free in 2022.
00:41:55:03 – 00:42:26:09
Christopher J. Hughes
And I sign up every year and I, I gather all this, I’m like a loot goblin. I just gobble up all the stuff that I can, and I might save a couple of videos here and there. But you know, we I learn those shortcuts from people who know better, and then they become part of my repertoire. I think the problem is trying to make what, you know, like, proprietary paywalled knowledge.
00:42:26:09 – 00:42:49:57
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Nobody wants to share the process because the process is mine. And then nobody should know these tools exist. I, I made an entire I’ve. I’ve made stuff for your your partner. Yeah. In After effects completely sitting here in this chair on a computer that our college friend helped me build with no proper training in motion design. What’s.
00:42:49:57 – 00:42:59:21
Agent Palmer
Well, and I think the difference is that and and I’m going to say this right now categorically and people can write me emails, whatever.
00:42:59:25 – 00:43:03:36
Christopher J. Hughes
I create the show at the at the Palmer Files on Twitter.
00:43:03:41 – 00:43:18:28
Agent Palmer
I believe that most people that create good content can find a way to monetize the good content. Most people who who monetize processes can’t make good content.
00:43:18:33 – 00:43:23:04
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh yeah. No, there’s a those who can’t teach. Yeah. Line there.
00:43:23:04 – 00:43:24:36
Agent Palmer
And I, I which.
00:43:24:36 – 00:43:27:42
Christopher J. Hughes
Is not true. It it’s not it’s not always.
00:43:27:45 – 00:43:52:29
Agent Palmer
No it’s not, it’s not it’s not as universal but but one of the things is I’ve never met a creator and this includes you. But I can discount you because you’re my friend. I’ve never met a creator who’s been like, hell, no, I won’t help you with that. Like I had somebody, a creator bigger than me, give me a crash course in audition for when I switched over.
00:43:52:34 – 00:44:18:18
Agent Palmer
Right. And that helped us with the movie just by. Because I was learning all these things. And I was learning by doing, and I was being helped. And I’ve if you if you’ve listened to the podcast for any period of time, you’ve heard authors talk about other authors helping them and podcasters having other podcasters help them. And I’ve I’ve been around long enough to help people.
00:44:18:18 – 00:44:28:37
Agent Palmer
People maybe like you don’t make a lot of money. This isn’t your date. Like. No, but I’m willing to help because I’ve learned things and go right and oh man, like.
00:44:28:42 – 00:44:32:53
Christopher J. Hughes
You, I’m the kind of person I want everybody to be able to do cool shit. I.
00:44:32:58 – 00:44:36:36
Agent Palmer
I want them to create the thing. Right? Like you and I, we.
00:44:36:38 – 00:44:53:11
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, we’ve talked about this because I, I had it like you’re you’re closes, you’re open for the podcast. And we came to the conclusion that yesterday but recently, the and you even consciously came to it. Yeah. I have to stop telling people to make the thing.
00:44:53:19 – 00:45:03:03
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Because like every well, when I, I have a creator on, it’s so easy for me to listen and then start writing like, dude, you make the thing, you make.
00:45:03:16 – 00:45:06:05
Christopher J. Hughes
Thing, make the thing, you made the thing go, yes. The thing.
00:45:06:05 – 00:45:17:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I and and like, I’ll probably still include it every few just to encourage my audience. But like, I think every episode could be go do the thing which is.
00:45:17:13 – 00:45:26:10
Christopher J. Hughes
Going to you’re, we’re going to start a new and you and I called go make the thing. Maybe that’s our next.
00:45:26:15 – 00:45:29:20
Christopher J. Hughes
Go make the thing a Palmer Files production.
00:45:29:20 – 00:45:39:25
Agent Palmer
I mean, it would it’s weird because people, are like, did you really help? I’m like, yeah, I helped.
00:45:39:30 – 00:45:40:04
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, but.
00:45:40:05 – 00:45:44:03
Agent Palmer
Because I give you all the credit, like, I in fact, I, I and you.
00:45:44:14 – 00:45:45:26
Christopher J. Hughes
Clicked the buttons.
00:45:45:29 – 00:45:53:44
Agent Palmer
You should get all the credit. But like I as I joke with people, look at the movie poster, there’s six names on there and I’m two of them.
00:45:53:49 – 00:45:58:01
Christopher J. Hughes
Yep. And I’m the other.
00:45:58:06 – 00:46:13:48
Christopher J. Hughes
And you know, and we talked about this. I want to touch on this for a minute, but at one point you tried to convince me to narrate it. And on a documentary film poster, there’s no cast because it’s just real people. And it would have had to have said my name again. So I would have been five for seven.
00:46:13:48 – 00:46:25:37
Agent Palmer
Well, and that’s the other thing you and I, when we did what? Because obviously this is our first movie, if we were going through the credits go like, well, we can’t list every job we had because.
00:46:25:44 – 00:46:28:05
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, I would have needed a longer song.
00:46:28:10 – 00:46:35:29
Agent Palmer
Well, and it would have just like turned into like a word jumble, like, because if you see the same word after so many times.
00:46:35:34 – 00:46:39:17
Christopher J. Hughes
Our names would no longer have made sense. And in the course of the English language.
00:46:39:17 – 00:46:44:24
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it would just be like, what is going on? So we picked we picked the ones we wanted. Right.
00:46:44:24 – 00:46:45:38
Christopher J. Hughes
The major roles.
00:46:45:47 – 00:46:56:46
Agent Palmer
Yeah, there were a lot of other things that we could have. And then we would have changed the movie poster. And then instead of having six names, we would have been like 18 and we still would have been like 12 and six of them.
00:46:56:47 – 00:47:05:09
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. I was gonna say ten and eight, but yeah, sure, it’s but but that’s the beauty of this thing. Like it if you.
00:47:05:09 – 00:47:08:03
Agent Palmer
Can do it with two people, I think that’s the other thing. Right. Like I was gonna.
00:47:08:04 – 00:47:32:00
Christopher J. Hughes
Say this is as like renegade as it gets. So, like, granted, when I filmed it, I was employed by the institution that it’s about. And when I was editing. 70% of it, I was still employed by that institution. But when it came down to it, nobody was standing over me. I actually had a a marketing director that was like, and he was this sort of like rough and tumble guy.
00:47:32:00 – 00:47:50:55
Christopher J. Hughes
And, and when I would tell him that I was working on this, like, what? Why? Why are you doing that? What’s that? What’s this project? We had a system called Function Fox that that would allow us to track projects. What is this for Athletics? This. This, football movie. And I was like, oh, that’s the documentary that I filmed in 2090s.
00:47:51:00 – 00:48:01:21
Christopher J. Hughes
That’s not important. I need, I need banners for for the main building, and, we need billboards for spring and summer and,
00:48:01:26 – 00:48:15:04
Agent Palmer
But but you know what? This is the thing for you. The, like, credit, all credit to you. Because even before I joined the picture, you kept holding, like, kept the light of the flame a light, right? Like you just kept it going little by it. Even if you only got to it once a.
00:48:15:04 – 00:48:29:01
Christopher J. Hughes
Week for against, you still kept going. My better judgment and probably the to the to the detriment of my own health it sometimes but yeah but yeah. No we we did we kept it going.
00:48:29:06 – 00:48:54:30
Agent Palmer
But you know at a certain point this will be we still look back. Now it’s it hasn’t been out for that long. Like as far as, like out in the ether. Right. But like I still think back and laugh like I can’t help but think about, like, just because we worked like our average starting time was nine.
00:48:54:33 – 00:48:58:04
Christopher J. Hughes
90 9:00. Yeah. I, you know, it like the interesting thing.
00:48:58:19 – 00:49:10:00
Agent Palmer
So I just think about laughter because like at a certain point because like, like here’s the thing, I may not be employed full time, but I still get up or in the morning just like you.
00:49:10:00 – 00:49:11:32
Christopher J. Hughes
And so if you were. Yeah.
00:49:11:32 – 00:49:19:01
Agent Palmer
When, when it’s 9:00 or if we start at ten, you know, we’re 14 hours awake at least.
00:49:19:12 – 00:49:19:52
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Minimum.
00:49:19:52 – 00:49:28:20
Agent Palmer
And so I remember going through serious things with you and just like it just takes one thing to set you off and you’re just done.
00:49:28:21 – 00:49:34:26
Christopher J. Hughes
Got it? I’m done. We’re done. Words I can’t anymore. I’ve done. I’ve exhausted.
00:49:34:26 – 00:49:46:08
Agent Palmer
I’m so I always look back at this with a smile on my face because I don’t, I don’t see I and I know you and I did did some voice raising at times.
00:49:46:12 – 00:49:48:31
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh, we definitely didn’t agree on every decision.
00:49:48:33 – 00:49:49:28
Agent Palmer
No no no no no.
00:49:49:34 – 00:49:56:31
Christopher J. Hughes
And I was a stubborn bitch sometimes but but know you let me when I, when I explained why.
00:49:56:31 – 00:49:57:36
Agent Palmer
Well and and kind.
00:49:57:36 – 00:49:58:06
Christopher J. Hughes
Of let me.
00:49:58:06 – 00:50:13:01
Agent Palmer
I also like and I can say this now like I, I gave you some that I just was like I’ll, I’ll save it for the next one because I got, I got a few points that I want to argue and that one’s not nearly as important as the next one. I’ll give him this one.
00:50:13:05 – 00:50:36:57
Christopher J. Hughes
Right. But so like what’s interesting though, like you want to talk timeline, right. So one of the things that I didn’t know about this team and they talk about it a lot. So the the football team itself doesn’t have their own facility. Right. So we rent from the local school district. And so in order to get time, sometimes you’re waiting for a track meet to end or a soccer game to end under the lights.
00:50:37:02 – 00:51:04:47
Christopher J. Hughes
And similar to the way you and I would have to work, we would have to go through the business of the day and then this team sometimes wouldn’t get on the field for a two hour practice until 10:00. They’d be they’d be busing them back and traveling in 12 and 15 passenger vans in groups at midnight, because that’s the obstacle that those one of many obstacles those kids had to overcome.
00:51:05:02 – 00:51:32:17
Christopher J. Hughes
And that’s what I think I appreciate more about this team. I’ve always known about. Like, I want to coach football like, but I think learning the actual genuine struggles that these kids have to deal with in order to be able to practice and play well and then get up the next day and go to class like those are the little things that that I think I’m going to keep for a long time.
00:51:32:18 – 00:51:44:15
Agent Palmer
So when will so you made a movie be responded by you with, yes, I did, instead of I can’t, but like, when does the I can’t believe it wear off?
00:51:44:15 – 00:52:09:09
Christopher J. Hughes
Like as soon as I can stream it. Okay. Like because I’m, I’m the type of self-promotional jerk that like I’ll get business cards with a QR code, print it out on the back and go scan this, go watch the documentary that I made because they’re like, I’m I’m creative in my self-promotion and things like that. But I think until a lot of people can see it.
00:52:09:13 – 00:52:31:50
Christopher J. Hughes
It’s it’s it feels real and it’s done. And other people who didn’t, who never saw a piece of it have seen it. And so it’s it’s real. Right. Yeah. And I, I believe that I’ve done it, but I want more people to see it. I think that’s the one thing that I’m missing in terms of achievement. Okay.
00:52:31:55 – 00:53:03:12
Christopher J. Hughes
You know, it’s it’s never going to have like a box office return or any kind of bullshit like that, but like, I would like more people to experience it so that they understand why I put so much time into it. Like there’s there was another thing that was happening at the college, shortly after we premiered the movie, we got we got no press, but, I, I’m going to retract that.
00:53:03:17 – 00:53:33:16
Christopher J. Hughes
I got I got to be on the, the college’s, sports, weekly sports video, and I, got some help from the local public access channel, but I got no attention from any local TV, local newspaper, nothing. And, the college was doing something else completely not related to athletics. And not only got a blog from the local paper, but got like a full byline to article as well.
00:53:33:21 – 00:53:54:54
Christopher J. Hughes
Like two things for something not related to athletics, something that doesn’t bring a couple million dollars worth of revenue in tuition and housing to the school every year for 30 years. I mean, the reason, like when a college has residence halls is because of a football team.
00:53:54:59 – 00:53:55:38
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:53:55:42 – 00:54:26:58
Christopher J. Hughes
And something that might not work. Got a full blog and a full byline article, and I was a little insulted by that. I’m not going to lie. I don’t, and I think that’s where the personal connection to the college comes in. Because because I go, I’ve been here. I’m a product of this place. I’ve worked on this thing on and off for three years.
00:54:27:03 – 00:55:05:08
Christopher J. Hughes
It was a two man show. It. I have often referred to it as my opus because until it’s the until a bigger project comes, it will be. Yeah. So I, I think it’s just. And this is, I touched on this a little as we got started, but like, I would like to enter it into a film festival, and I would like to maybe screen it at the local Drive-In because, we have a connection there, and there’s a little independent theater, up in Tunkhannock, which is about 20, 25 minutes up the road for me.
00:55:05:12 – 00:55:34:44
Christopher J. Hughes
And I’d like to maybe get it there. And I want people to experience it. And maybe there is a piece of me that needs that for validation for all the the toil of the project. But I think it deserves it too. Like I, I there’s so much into it and it’s so very personal and and you and I laugh because it’s still impacting my vocabulary and how we reference things like we you and I reference Marvel movies and now I reference this movie.
00:55:34:49 – 00:55:35:56
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, but.
00:55:35:56 – 00:55:57:04
Agent Palmer
I think it also goes to the fact that, like, I’m the one hitting publish on the blog and the podcast six times a month, and so I’m used to that. Things finished and moving on. And so I don’t have a mindset other than what’s next?
00:55:57:09 – 00:56:00:50
Christopher J. Hughes
And maybe, maybe that’s why I need the attention. Because we finish the thing.
00:56:01:04 – 00:56:19:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, because, but and it’s also why I, my first thing was what’s next? Because I’m, I, I know that my blog post get read and my podcast get listened to, I don’t care how many. If it’s just one, that’s enough for me. Right? But.
00:56:19:23 – 00:56:26:52
Christopher J. Hughes
And maybe I’ll feel better when we can stream this thing, whether it be a streaming service or YouTube. And I can see views.
00:56:26:52 – 00:56:48:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah, and perhaps that’s enough, but I’m just saying, like, it might be we at a certain point, I’m, I’m excited to look to ask you. So you made a movie and you’d be like, yeah, yeah, I did, because I still think that even in the early days when we start putting it out to the public, you’re still going to be like, I can’t believe it.
00:56:48:16 – 00:57:11:01
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, it’ll it’ll feel really good. But it’s it’s funny. Right. Like so I’m, I’m applying all of the things. The one thing that I would have improved about the, the movie itself is the sound quality. And it was just, it was literally me run around with like a, Sennheiser or rode, shotgun Mike attached to an XLR, plugged into an eight inch Mike.
00:57:11:01 – 00:57:19:03
Christopher J. Hughes
Jack, like you would not believe the setup that actually made this movie. Like it would make a trained professional cry. And.
00:57:19:18 – 00:57:29:25
Agent Palmer
You say that, but I don’t think it would. I think it’s very renegade. I think it would impress them because I’ve talked to it. Might I having having been there and in podcasting.
00:57:29:40 – 00:57:30:00
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:57:30:00 – 00:57:40:06
Agent Palmer
When I made the switch from audacity to audition and I sent over some stuff I had done in audacity.
00:57:40:11 – 00:57:41:53
Christopher J. Hughes
Somebody probably said, you did this in audacity.
00:57:41:53 – 00:57:46:34
Agent Palmer
They were like, so impressed by what I did with those tools. They’re like, you.
00:57:46:35 – 00:57:48:04
Christopher J. Hughes
Drew, you’re a wizard.
00:57:48:04 – 00:57:59:51
Agent Palmer
Harry. Right? So I think that there’s a part of it where people that know. Yeah, will probably just be more impressed by how little, by how little we actually had to work with.
00:57:59:58 – 00:58:21:52
Christopher J. Hughes
Right. Yeah. So. And it’s funny now, like, so some of the things that I’m doing professionally for, my, my day job, I’m shooting with a dSLR because I’ve got better control over light and all this going and depth of field and all this wonderful stuff, but I still need better mikes. So like this week I was looking at like wireless receivers and live mics and things like that.
00:58:21:52 – 00:58:23:20
Christopher J. Hughes
So I’m like, I know I want to spend.
00:58:23:20 – 00:58:30:38
Agent Palmer
Like, but you and I have always been great at application for the next thing like that’s we’ve.
00:58:30:43 – 00:58:39:57
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. But I mean and I think it goes back to like okay the these are the like, you know, what does this button do. Like how do I make the next thing better.
00:58:40:04 – 00:58:40:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:58:40:25 – 00:58:47:32
Christopher J. Hughes
On I’m very proud of never being satisfied with my work.
00:58:47:37 – 00:58:48:17
Agent Palmer
Well I think.
00:58:48:27 – 00:58:51:22
Christopher J. Hughes
I, I it makes you want to be.
00:58:51:27 – 00:59:07:51
Agent Palmer
Better I think all the time. I think the other thing is we’ve always wanted to make it easier so we could do better. Because easier just means you have more time for the details. Yeah. And and but.
00:59:07:56 – 00:59:28:21
Christopher J. Hughes
Well. And it’s funny right. It’s I actually today, I bumped into my old video and audio production professor. Right. Just on a little. I didn’t tell you about this, but I bumped into him on accident, and, we were joking. I know it, and he was like, oh, my God, you made the movie us again. I was like, and it’s all the stuff you told me.
00:59:28:26 – 00:59:52:44
Christopher J. Hughes
And it’s all the things that I learned when I was a journalist and it’s all those pieces that come together. And I was like, the only thing is changes. The render times are better. And. And he laughed. And I was like, you know, it’s 45 minutes to export an 88 minute movie. I was like, that shoot would have taken six days when we were when you were teaching me back in 2005, like, like college is like, yeah, he’s like these, like you would had to do 1 to 1 tape to digital transfers.
00:59:52:44 – 01:00:13:42
Christopher J. Hughes
And I was like, yeah, I can’t I move 16 gig worth of footage in three minutes, you know, like that. And you laugh at how the technology makes it easier. But like, I think that the tech making it easier makes it somewhat more salvageable for guys like you and I to say, okay, how do we make it better?
01:00:13:47 – 01:00:15:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah, because I.
01:00:15:47 – 01:00:17:10
Christopher J. Hughes
How do we make it better for us?
01:00:17:12 – 01:00:22:35
Agent Palmer
Well, right. How do we make it better for us so we can tell a better story? I mean, look it.
01:00:22:50 – 01:00:29:54
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, yeah, because the one thing you want is, like, you don’t want a bad shot or bad audio to detract from a product.
01:00:29:58 – 01:00:38:39
Agent Palmer
Or you want to be able to focus on some of the other things because that’s taken care of. Yeah, there’s the other piece.
01:00:38:39 – 01:01:00:56
Christopher J. Hughes
There’s there’s one I can’t remember what organization is, but they they’ve got this like, this is like the skeleton, like sitting in a computer, you know, like a bag and he’s he’s shouting it, just fix it. And Brie, like, I want to, that’s who I am. I want, I would like to be able to hand over the pre processed stuff to anybody and have them go, this is great.
01:01:01:04 – 01:01:03:04
Christopher J. Hughes
I have to do a goddamn thing.
01:01:03:08 – 01:01:06:59
Agent Palmer
And that’s why we work together. Because I have no problem fixing it in post.
01:01:07:04 – 01:01:10:51
Christopher J. Hughes
Right. But I but and there’s magic in both right. Yeah.
01:01:10:56 – 01:01:11:53
Agent Palmer
100%. Yeah.
01:01:11:55 – 01:01:34:56
Christopher J. Hughes
Because I, I don’t know if somebody we could hand over the the I don’t know, I don’t even know the math anymore. I think it was 160 some gig. I think it was 2200 files. We could hand over the 2200 files that actually went into making this project and give it to somebody else, and they could tell a story, and it might be a better story.
01:01:35:05 – 01:02:00:41
Christopher J. Hughes
It might not. They might they might, attach themselves to pieces that we didn’t, we laugh at how often the broadcast talks about how the quarterback, used to be a hockey player. It’s it’s like it was the. It was the chorus of the broadcast because it was such an unusual day. We laugh about it, but like, you could give all this stuff to somebody else and say, all right, what do you want to make with it?
01:02:00:46 – 01:02:05:21
Christopher J. Hughes
But, if I could go back and improve anything, it would be the sound quality.
01:02:05:21 – 01:02:09:25
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And and we did the we did the best we could. We could. We had a and you.
01:02:09:26 – 01:02:13:50
Christopher J. Hughes
And you came. You slept in my house for three days over Labor Day weekend and fix the whole damn thing.
01:02:13:50 – 01:02:22:16
Agent Palmer
And and it it’s it. I think that’s the more unbelievable part for me. For me. Like I makes the movie. Like what?
01:02:22:28 – 01:02:23:10
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. You mixed.
01:02:23:15 – 01:02:30:55
Agent Palmer
I have no outside of this podcast. I’ve no qualification for it. Other day I but.
01:02:30:55 – 01:02:36:53
Christopher J. Hughes
I was going to say because of the podcast, you have the ability to apply that to a movie.
01:02:36:53 – 01:02:55:48
Agent Palmer
And that’s the thing you talk about applying it to your day job, like we’ve got the this is who we’ve always been. And I feel like it’s the reason that I can say, like, what’s next to you, right? Like, yeah, it’s two. Yeah. Of course it was too soon to ask you that. Yeah. But that will never stop me.
01:02:55:53 – 01:03:00:44
Agent Palmer
I will always ask you what’s next. Always. There will always.
01:03:00:49 – 01:03:30:11
Christopher J. Hughes
And that’s why this works. That’s why the friendship board, we talked about it, I think during the friendship episode two. When we go back. Yeah. Where we’re always pushing not just ourselves, but each other. Right? We’re always on the lookout. We’re always trying to figure it out. But, like, you know, I, I was looking at, like I said, I was looking for wireless receivers and I was like, I can’t wait to show up to, you know, I have to interview a business owner for, a whole series of things that are going on with my day job.
01:03:30:16 – 01:03:49:55
Christopher J. Hughes
And, so because as he’s trying to redo his building with some of the grant money that we’ve got out, I don’t want to get too much into my job right now, but, I can’t wait to show up with, like, a dSLR and a tripod and a little tiny light and this awesome wireless microphone that I’m just going to clip to the guy and go, okay, tell me, tell me about your building.
01:03:49:55 – 01:04:17:08
Christopher J. Hughes
This is, you know, what is it? Why are we doing it and why is this important and why are you getting involved in, I can’t wait. And I’m going to also interview that professor that I ran into today because he’s doing this great project with food insecurity, and he’s teaming up with another agency in town, and I can’t wait to show up and clip a microphone to him and have him go, oh my God, like I taught you all this stuff.
01:04:17:08 – 01:04:49:47
Christopher J. Hughes
Like, you know, to to to share the the joy of storytelling and, and, you know, the good things that are happening around you. I think that maybe that’s the, the hook. Right? Like Lackawanna College has been playing football for 30 years and they’ve to, to borrow a phrase, they’ve been slapped on, you know. And so I think telling this story.
01:04:49:52 – 01:05:14:29
Christopher J. Hughes
My way and our way and without it being an 88 minute commercial for the college, I think is probably the most. And that’s why to date, it’s one of the most important things I’ve ever done creatively.
01:05:14:33 – 01:05:35:05
Agent Palmer
We didn’t have any qualification other than what we’ve learned from what we’ve done. What we did know is that, win or lose, we had a great story to tell. The hardest part was suspending the reality of knowing the outcome of the game to tell the best story. But it was equally hard to find the heart of the story to make people care about this team.
01:05:35:20 – 01:06:02:37
Agent Palmer
A team that most people, even in the area, aren’t aware of. However, we are storytellers. We’re not bards, though we’d probably like to be. We are storytellers, and this was a story worth telling. It came to us as a massive amount of digital data that we sifted through and sorted through to create something cohesive. This is what we did have experience doing.
01:06:02:41 – 01:06:28:31
Agent Palmer
Most of our projects are either make something from this mess or make something from nothing. The rest you figure out in your own experiences. Do you prefer making something from nothing or creating something beautiful out of the chaos? Let us know! Thanks for listening to The Polymer Files episode 88. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
01:06:28:35 – 01:06:46:54
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact myself and my guest, Christopher J. Hughes in the show. Notes. There you will also find a link to the trailer of They Sleep on Us, and eventually links to where you can view the full documentary. Or maybe they’re there now.
01:06:46:54 – 01:07:14:50
Agent Palmer
If you’re listening to this in the future, email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
01:07:14:54 – 01:07:33:30
Unknown
You see?
01:07:33:35 – 01:07:38:03
Unknown
Me.
01:07:38:08 – 01:07:44:27
Unknown
See?
01:07:44:32 – 01:07:47:19
Agent Palmer
All right. Chris, do you have one final question for me?
01:07:47:24 – 01:07:55:57
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. So we made a movie. Yeah. What do you want to do next?
01:07:56:02 – 01:08:34:29
Agent Palmer
I mean, it’s. Creatively, right. It’s a very weird question for me. Okay. Because I do the blog and I do the podcast, and that’s what I create. And when it comes to bigger projects, I help you with the movie. Obviously, I edited a book of poetry, and I’m in the process of editing another book of poetry for the same author, and I will literally kick his ass to make sure that I get to edit his novel, which he’s been drafted, and it’s just about, drafting it again.
01:08:34:29 – 01:08:36:08
Agent Palmer
Right. And I’m working.
01:08:36:10 – 01:08:39:58
Christopher J. Hughes
That’s new information to to meet, too, because I know the author gone.
01:08:39:58 – 01:08:56:32
Agent Palmer
So I’m also, helping someone. I’m reading a rough, what I will call rough thoughts from another friend who’s thinking about creating a memoir. And I want to help them kind of facilitate that. I.
01:08:56:36 – 01:08:58:57
Christopher J. Hughes
But what do you want to do with me?
01:08:59:02 – 01:09:25:02
Agent Palmer
Okay, well, that that that that’s a different question. That’s a different question. Right. So but it’s I feel like it’s whatever you want to do. Like and this is what this and this, the reason I list all that stuff. Right. Because like, I’m right, I, I feel like despite the blog, in the podcast, I still look at myself as the man in the chair and not the man.
01:09:25:06 – 01:09:27:00
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh, you are totally my Ned.
01:09:27:05 – 01:09:50:22
Agent Palmer
So in that regard, what’s next? It’s it’s it’s the book of poetry. It’s potentially the novel. It’s potentially a memoir. And it’s whatever you bring to me like I’m I’m here for it. And like, I’ve, I’ve talked on this show about maybe dabbling in the video and really it’s just a, a means to learning to apply it to other things.
01:09:50:22 – 01:10:13:39
Agent Palmer
It’s not really because I yearn to be in video. Right? Like it’s just another skill to add to the quiver. But for me, what’s next is whatever. You know, honestly, it’s you and I talk every day, and a lot of the time we talk about what’s bothering us or what we’re working on right now. But sometimes we do get those moments where nothing’s going on.
01:10:13:39 – 01:10:38:10
Agent Palmer
We just throw shit at the wall, and I’m that whatever’s next will come from whatever sticks or in the long haul. And that’s the truth is, I. I’m okay with whatever it is. I, I, you know, I joke that it should be fiction because we’ll be able to control the narrative, which is not something which is not something we could do with the documentary.
01:10:38:10 – 01:10:47:28
Agent Palmer
The documentary was, yeah, tell the story. This is how it begins and this is how it ends. Yeah. Enjoy, getting people from A to B. I like the idea that you can.
01:10:47:40 – 01:10:49:45
Christopher J. Hughes
So you you would craft a story.
01:10:49:45 – 01:10:56:14
Agent Palmer
I would love the idea of of us to start with a straight up writer’s room and go from there.
01:10:56:18 – 01:11:01:17
Christopher J. Hughes
Fair. No. Well, if you decide to get in the video, I know a guy who made a movie.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).