Episode 121 features Amber Naslund, an entrepreneur, marketer, salesperson, writer, leader, and too many more things there isn’t enough time to mention!
We discuss careers and trajectories, confidence and risk, fear and opportunity, setbacks and balance, and so much more.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
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00:00:00:03 – 00:00:26:08
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. Reading Player One by Douglas Copeland post-pandemic challenges its new normal narrative. You probably know hypnosis. You just don’t know it. And James continues to post intriguing videos sharing his journey into the depths of nostalgia. This is The Palmer Files episode 121 with Amber Naslund, an entrepreneur, marketer, salesperson, writer, leader and to many more things there isn’t enough time to mention.
00:00:26:20 – 00:01:06:59
Agent Palmer
We discussed careers and trajectories. Confidence and risk, fear and opportunity, setbacks and balance, and so much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:07:04 – 00:01:31:49
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 121st episode is Amber Naslund. Amber is many things. She’s a mom and an equestrian, but we met on the shared field of marketing and odd career trajectories. That’s where the conversation starts. But where does it lead? It leads to discussions of job searching and consulting.
00:01:31:58 – 00:02:05:31
Agent Palmer
It continues with risk tolerance and confidence. You’ll also hear us discuss that perhaps self-worth, identity and professional identity and success shouldn’t be confused with each other. Not being able to save us from ourselves. Perspective. Balance. Thought. Leadership. Journaling, writing and disconnecting with analog. All of that and a whole lot more is coming your way. But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all related ways to contact my guest, Amber Naslund and myself in the show notes.
00:02:05:36 – 00:02:20:30
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget, you can see all of my ratings and ratings on Agent palmer.com. And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer Files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:20:35 – 00:02:50:46
Agent Palmer
Amber, I, I know that you have done a lot of things in your career, but one of them is to help people with their own careers. And I am currently in a, a stagnation of careers of sorts. Like, I had a professional gig for quite a while, and then it went away. And then, the pandemic happened and I’ve, I’ve never quite recovered.
00:02:50:46 – 00:03:20:25
Agent Palmer
And given that my field is marketing and it’s a a horrible field to be in. I it feels like I loved it, but it never feel felt safe. I feel like I just watch all of the opportunities close as as as I sit on the sidelines and take small consulting gigs. Not to put you too on the spot, but, like, do you have any advice?
00:03:20:29 – 00:03:24:40
Amber Naslund
Do you want the small consulting gigs or do you want to go back into a gig?
00:03:24:45 – 00:03:50:57
Agent Palmer
You know, I, I am a horrible sales person of myself, so I would very much rather have the gig like I, I want, I don’t want, but like, I almost want to go in and punch a clock from 9 to 5. That would be fine. I don’t like that. That part never bothered me, but I’m I’m horrible at like, getting new client like the the gigs I’ve got now I fell into.
00:03:51:02 – 00:03:53:48
Agent Palmer
That’s the kind of consultant I am right now.
00:03:53:53 – 00:04:03:24
Amber Naslund
Well and I believe it or not, I think there’s a lot of people who make very good living is falling into opportunities left, right and center. That’s like, I’m not.
00:04:03:24 – 00:04:08:25
Agent Palmer
I’m not that lucky. I mean, this like.
00:04:08:30 – 00:04:19:52
Amber Naslund
Well, I’m like, I, I owned a business for a while, and, my least favorite part about it was keeping the business afloat by constantly having to go, like, hustle and find new business. I.
00:04:19:52 – 00:04:27:13
Agent Palmer
Still don’t understand, how any business works, because, like, I’ve never met a business owner who’s like to that part.
00:04:27:18 – 00:04:55:25
Amber Naslund
Yeah, and I didn’t like it. It’s. That it. It’s like it’s a it’s immensely stressful for obvious reasons. Yeah, but it also like, it’s very difficult to work on the business and in the business at the same time. Yeah. So the work that I loved, which was all the client facing stuff, was hard to balance with constantly feeling like I needed to keep the pipeline full of potential new clients.
00:04:55:30 – 00:05:17:32
Amber Naslund
And that was one of many reasons I decided that, like, that particular flavor of entrepreneurship is not something I enjoyed a ton. But to your original question, I think especially in the current climate for job seekers, it’s it’s the toughest market I’ve ever seen.
00:05:17:37 – 00:05:41:42
Agent Palmer
I and it’s it feels like, look, and I’ve been saying this for a while. I’m waiting for the full I implosion because I think it needs to fail more than it has in order for people to be like, yes, I want that human to write me that thing again. And I so.
00:05:41:43 – 00:05:42:19
Amber Naslund
I well.
00:05:42:20 – 00:06:07:58
Agent Palmer
I, but and people are like, well are you, are you, are you still looking? And it’s like, I am still looking. I haven’t applied in a while. Because there’s been nothing like the last time I really went out there. I had two specific examples that are pretty standard. I think one was, I’m I’m a jack of all trades.
00:06:07:58 – 00:06:21:59
Agent Palmer
So, like, they were like, well, what can you do for us? And I was like, well, what do you want me to do for you? Like, I’ve already told you, I’m willing to show up at an office. And this was after the guy in the preamble had spent five minutes lamenting the fact that nobody wants to come to me.
00:06:21:59 – 00:06:40:00
Agent Palmer
I’ll say I’ll do that. I’m that. I’m not that. And then, you know, that went nowhere. And then the other one was, I said I was a writer, and they said, well, how are you with prompts? And I said, Will you give me a prompt and I’ll write about it. And they’re like, no, no, no. Like with, with with artificial engines.
00:06:40:00 – 00:07:00:37
Agent Palmer
And I’m like, not good. Not good at all. And they’re like, all right, well, thanks, but no thanks. I was like, well, I, I’ve, I’m okay, I think, I think I’ve gone as far as I can go and I have to wait for the, the guy who wants to somebody to come into the office to get desperate enough and the guy who wants the technology to do it, to be desperate enough.
00:07:00:46 – 00:07:04:51
Agent Palmer
I think that’s where I’m that. That’s where it feels like I’m at right now.
00:07:04:56 – 00:07:33:11
Amber Naslund
Well, the the hard truth, I think, is that, even if you are a jack of all trades and there’s a lot of value in being a generalist or someone who has a like a broad skill set, the reality of the job market right now, especially, is that people need and want specialists, and they want specificity. So they want someone who can do a specific job that solves a specific problem that they have in their business.
00:07:33:16 – 00:08:02:04
Amber Naslund
And for example, right now they’re in the marketing world. There are. And all of my clients, like I work, in the, in the advertising industry. So I work with marketers. I was a marketer for 20 some odd years. The reality of the marketing job market is that people need specific functional expertise. They need people who know how to create content in a number of different formats and modes.
00:08:02:09 – 00:08:33:05
Amber Naslund
They need people who can design, architect and run campaigns. They need people who understand analytics and can run a tech stack on analytics. So they have very specific sets of needs. And in a job market like this, when it’s highly competitive, every role is very saturated with qualified candidates. You have to be able to be specific about the problem you can solve and how your expertise is relevant to the job that they have.
00:08:33:10 – 00:08:41:49
Amber Naslund
And as much as it’s nice to, like, keep it open ended and be like, I can do whatever you need me to do, nobody’s going to take the time to figure that out with you. I mean.
00:08:41:53 – 00:08:52:34
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s what I’ve I’ve also I’ve always said like, I, I wonder where in my. So I’m, I’m in that in-between generation.
00:08:52:39 – 00:08:53:04
Amber Naslund
00:08:54:16 – 00:09:16:00
Agent Palmer
I’m 40 so I’m not quite millennial and I’m not quite Gen X and I, I, I was, it was sold the lie that if I got a degree I’d get a good job and that never really happened. And I was told that if I was well-rounded I would be hirable. And that never really happened. And it was just one thing.
00:09:16:00 – 00:09:38:38
Agent Palmer
After another. And here I am now, like, it’s been years. I’ve, I’ve done my seven plus years in retail and I’ve done my seven plus years in professionalism, and I, I wouldn’t trade either of them. But like, it feels like I, I could have ended up here without all of that.
00:09:38:43 – 00:10:07:21
Amber Naslund
Well I my my dirty little secret that, comes up in conversation once in a while is that I don’t have a degree and I am squarely Gen X, so, I’ll be 49 this summer. Which is like insane to think about. But I too was given a lot of the, you know, go to college, work hard, put your nose to the grindstone, and good things will be follow you.
00:10:07:25 – 00:10:19:18
Amber Naslund
The the reality of the professional world is it’s not a meritocracy. No, a lot of times it is. Who? You know what? You know, good timing, a little bit of dose of luck.
00:10:19:23 – 00:10:40:07
Agent Palmer
A big dose of luck. Like, it feels like. I think a lot of people like. And granted, if you work to give yourself more opportunities, you’ll have better luck. But I still think it really comes down to like, did did you talk to that person on a good day? Did they even look at your email like, well.
00:10:40:07 – 00:10:45:38
Amber Naslund
And I know you’ve probably heard the adage about luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
00:10:45:51 – 00:10:50:32
Agent Palmer
I have heard that, but I hate that because I’ve prepared a lot and failed.
00:10:50:37 – 00:11:25:55
Amber Naslund
Yeah. And I think that the the if I look at my own sort of career trajectory, there were a lot of moments that were serendipitous in terms of right place, right people, right time. But I still had to go the last mile of having the skills. The attitude and the willingness to sort of like, you know, carpe the shit out of the moment or whatever, like, you know, figuring out, like, how to make good on the opportunity that was in front of me.
00:11:25:55 – 00:11:49:14
Amber Naslund
For example, years and years ago, I was kind of making a leap out of I left kind of a toxic job situation. I was a young I was a single mom of a very of an infant, basically, and my current role wasn’t really supporting my single mom of a baby world. So I walked away from that job without much of a safety net.
00:11:49:14 – 00:12:11:04
Amber Naslund
And it just so happened that social media was the catalyst for me meeting, a man who was at the time the CMO of a startup that I ended up going to first do some freelance copywriting and content development work, for which developed into a full time job, and then building a team and all kinds of stuff that kind of snowballed from there.
00:12:11:08 – 00:12:36:14
Amber Naslund
But I think that part of what’s been helpful, and the thing I talk to people a lot about, is being open to those serendipitous moments that don’t necessarily sniff test the way that you would think your next career step might look like. So a lot of people get very hung up on the linear progression of like, I do this and then I do this, and then I do this, and then this is supposed to happen next.
00:12:36:19 – 00:13:02:41
Amber Naslund
And I think a lot of times the reason I’ve managed to find my way through what I call a very messy and meandering career is that I’ve been open to the idea that the next thing doesn’t maybe look like I think it should. I’ve I’ve switched careers from fundraising to sales leadership to marketing and back again, and, I’ve done I’ve worked in startups.
00:13:02:41 – 00:13:12:37
Amber Naslund
I’ve worked in like currently in a very large organization. And every step in between has been a lot of me following my nose versus following a playbook. You.
00:13:12:49 – 00:13:39:08
Agent Palmer
But, but I guess the question would be how risk averse are you? Because to take while the job that you left with a young child was not conducive, it would have been hard for a lot of people, I think, to make that jump without a safety net. So like, sure. I don’t know, like, are you a good poker player like I don’t, you know, I don’t know what the question is here.
00:13:39:08 – 00:13:57:54
Agent Palmer
Right. Because it’s like I get that saying like, oh yeah, she just jumps out of planes for fun. She’s a risk taker. No, but like, there is a certain sense of like, I don’t know, like, you talk about serendipity. Like, if are your cat like like, are you just do you like, do you have a confidence that you will land on your feet or like, you know what I mean?
00:13:57:54 – 00:14:26:57
Amber Naslund
Like, it’s an interesting question, you know, so I am I think I think risk aversion or risk tolerance has a lot to do with the season of life that you’re in. Okay. So when I was young and had a daughter, I also, like my parents, were still alive. And even though I lived alone, and at the time had a pretty decent income and I had like a fair I won’t say a ton, but I had a fair amount in savings that was like a little bit of a safety net for me financially.
00:14:27:01 – 00:14:49:09
Amber Naslund
But I also knew that, like, neither one of my parents was going to let me live on the street. So I had that. I had the advantage of having that as a safety net at that time. Yeah. As my daughter has gotten older, my, my, my tolerance for risk has changed. I won’t say that it’s gone up or down because I think, again, that is really dependent on my season in life.
00:14:49:09 – 00:15:21:10
Amber Naslund
But like when I took my job, I currently work for LinkedIn and when I took my job at LinkedIn, almost, I guess almost six years ago now, I had come off, a time in my life where I’d had a business that I owned for several years that failed spectacularly, ruined me financially, like, utterly ruined me. And I needed to go back to the good old workforce to, like, rebuild and, dig myself out of an immense amount of debt.
00:15:21:14 – 00:15:41:22
Amber Naslund
So I went back to work, got one job, lost that job two and a half years later when they’d, like, turned over three years and three years or something crazy like that, and then got a different job. And then a year and a half later, they sort of sunset my whole team. And I was laid off a second time in two years.
00:15:41:26 – 00:16:08:05
Amber Naslund
So when I came to LinkedIn, I was like kicked and down. And, I took a step back out of leadership roles into an individual contributor role. I took a significant pay cut to do it. And because I needed the grounding function of stepping into a job, I knew I could absolutely crush, that felt like it had. I mean, I don’t think any job is a guarantee.
00:16:08:05 – 00:16:35:36
Amber Naslund
There’s no such thing as job stability, but, I felt like I had a much better shot at a stable, larger organization of being able to get my feet back underneath me. And to some people, that’s a calculated risk taking a big pay cut, taking a title cut. And then again, two years ago, I moved from a long time career in marketing, and I moved over to the sales side, where now part of my compensation is variable.
00:16:35:41 – 00:16:55:41
Amber Naslund
So that’s a different kind of risk. Yeah. So it’s like I’m not I’m not risk averse or particularly like risk chasing. Yeah I think it really depends on the moment I’m in. And I do a lot of soul searching around like what are the what are the pros of this situation. What are the cons, what are the risks?
00:16:55:41 – 00:17:31:26
Amber Naslund
What are the potential upsides and benefits. And that’s why I talk a lot about careers as an exercise in courage more than anything, because I think there are times you have to bet on yourself. You have to take risks or be willing to walk the road less traveled in order to find something that meets the your both those professional ambitions that look nice on paper or on a resume, but also that fill your cup personally and that give you some inner peace.
00:17:31:26 – 00:17:56:38
Amber Naslund
Like I lost both my parents this past year and in the process of that kind of tragedy, on top of tragedy, you start to realize that like neither one of my parents were lying in their deathbed wishing they’d worked more. Yeah. Or wishing that they’d gotten that promotion, or lamenting that they didn’t, you know, take that job in Ohio or something.
00:17:56:38 – 00:18:23:41
Amber Naslund
It’s like none of their reflections on their life as they were sick and dying had anything to do with their professional accomplishments. And I spent so much of the early part of my career inextricably tying my self-worth and my identity to my job and my career accomplishments and my professional resume and my business. Failure was one sort of like.
00:18:23:45 – 00:18:42:48
Amber Naslund
Earth shattering moment. That changed a lot of that for me. And the second has been just a reckoning of, like, so much loss in my life in the last couple of years and realizing that I would like to retire someday and be financially secure and provide for my daughter and do those things. But I would also not like to work myself to death.
00:18:42:53 – 00:19:23:38
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I so one of the, I guess Golden opportunities I have as a mainly free agent, while my, savings dwindles as I try to make sure that my partner doesn’t pay for all of the things. Is that, I spend a good portion of my week making sure that she doesn’t work 70 hours. And my best friends, two of whom are workaholics and overachievers, and that they don’t over like I.
00:19:23:41 – 00:19:58:10
Agent Palmer
I like it has I like I am now in a position where because we are financially okay mainly through savings and, you know, just being economically responsible, I do worry, like if I got a full time job, who’s there to keep the three people who are closest to me from working themselves to death because, like, I’m the one who’s like, all right, stop for lunch or like, I’ll go out and bring lunch to a friend of mine just to be like, okay, you don’t know, like, you don’t you don’t have to work through lunch.
00:19:58:19 – 00:20:24:18
Agent Palmer
Like I don’t I don’t know where we we went wrong that, like. Yeah, working like, I, I just all I know is that in, in, in the early before 2010, Mad Men was one of the number one shows on television which glorified a certain era. But during that era, they took 90 minute lunches with booze, and that was acceptable.
00:20:24:32 – 00:20:49:54
Agent Palmer
And here we are, less than two decades from that show being popular. And people are like, I can’t, I can’t take a lunch today. I have to work through it. And I’m like, the, the, the, the, the whatever that cultural zeitgeist is. I’m like, I’m the one now holding my friends back from like, okay, no, like they’re not paying you for 120 hours this week.
00:20:49:59 – 00:21:12:14
Amber Naslund
Yeah. Well, that the hard thing is, like you, you can’t save them from that. They’ve got to save themselves. So that’s part of that’s part of it I think the like one of the hardest. Things about the journey that I’ve been on, I guess, is that people said that to me.
00:21:12:19 – 00:21:12:44
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:21:12:44 – 00:21:40:15
Amber Naslund
In the height of my like, workaholism and in the intensity, I mean, I so back in 2011, I published a book with a coauthor. I was really successful for a time, especially the business book world. And we did this big like 40 something city book tour. And I was on the road traveling almost nonstop for something like six months.
00:21:40:20 – 00:22:04:09
Amber Naslund
And I look back at that, and whereas I’m thrilled with the. I love the accomplishment of having published the book, but I regret some of the time that I had, like away from my daughter and there were people who told me at the time, like, you’re going to look back and you’re going to miss. Are you going to wish you’d spent more time with your kid?
00:22:04:11 – 00:22:19:12
Amber Naslund
You’re going to be fried and burned out, and you’re going to hit a wall. And it’s at a certain point this is going to come back to bite you. And they were right. But, but, but so what did you you know, like, have you ever been in a relationship that wasn’t good for you? And people were like, I don’t know man.
00:22:19:14 – 00:22:21:09
Amber Naslund
Yeah. That relationship’s probably yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:22:21:09 – 00:22:25:11
Agent Palmer
And you look back and you go like, okay, you’re right all along. I see it now. But you know.
00:22:25:15 – 00:22:28:44
Amber Naslund
Nobody could convince you of that. Well that that you had to live it yourself.
00:22:28:44 – 00:22:48:36
Agent Palmer
So what what so so I’m your friend 20 years ago. What what what do you what are you telling me? Like, when I’m like, all right, maybe. Maybe you should slow it down. Maybe. Maybe just only go on the road for a few weeks and not like, for, like, what are you telling me at the time? Or are you just, blowing me off?
00:22:48:36 – 00:23:26:38
Amber Naslund
I guess I’m blowing you off. Okay. Like I blew a lot of people off, and or I was like, I’m fine. I’m having a blast. I’m enjoying this because at the time, I had, like, the energy and the intensity and I the, the drive to do all that kind of stuff. And I wasn’t thinking about later. I was only thinking about then, and I was writing, the high in the momentum of, of all of that and I, I, I think deep down I was also motivated by a certain degree of fear, maybe of like, I better I better capitalize on this now because who knows what befalls me in the future?
00:23:26:38 – 00:23:47:12
Amber Naslund
What if I never get a shot like this again? Okay, so I would constantly feel like I had to chase every opportunity that was in front of me. Because what if another one never came along? And so I blew people off all the time, being like, whatever, whatever you say. Like it’ll be fine. And again, I was kind of afraid to not do it.
00:23:47:12 – 00:24:18:35
Amber Naslund
And the changing perspective on that only came from life experience. Okay. And getting knocked in the dirt a few times, enough to be like, it kind of comes back to something you said earlier about whether I’m like a risk chaser or whether I have nine lives or something. It’s like, no, I don’t, but having a substantial amount of setback and failure in my career has definitely taught me that I’m resilient as hell, okay?
00:24:18:40 – 00:24:44:48
Amber Naslund
And that I have survived all of my worst days so far. Yeah. And and that I’ve, like I’ve demonstrated to myself that I have the skills and the grit and the ability and to some degree, like the network and the relationships that if something befalls me or if I miss a train that’s coming my way, or some opportunity, another one will happen.
00:24:45:02 – 00:25:11:52
Amber Naslund
I will find my way through. And that’s given me a fair bit of inner peace, because I just learned to trust the process. I know that sounds really cheesy, but it’s like I’ve learned to trust the process a little bit and believe that I’m pretty capable of getting through most things that are thrown at me. Because I have a track record to prove it, and that in and of itself is helpful.
00:25:12:04 – 00:25:40:19
Agent Palmer
So, this is a dangerous question. But I’m asking on behalf of friends of mine. I’m not asking on behalf of me. And we can get into why in a bit. But for now, did you do you think you needed to get knocked down in order for that to happen? Like if if yes, if. Okay. So it it needed to you needed the befall in order to be able to, you know, take the step back.
00:25:40:23 – 00:26:06:12
Amber Naslund
It’s because those those moments are where perspective comes from. You don’t you don’t get perspective by like your your current vantage point. Okay. It’s almost impossible. So I yeah, I absolutely I’m not saying I welcomed it and I’m not saying I would want to do it again because like, that was a painful thing is that left scars, and in some ways were very traumatic.
00:26:06:12 – 00:26:25:02
Amber Naslund
But I think that they were important reorienting functions for me. That helped me really take stock, evaluate my priorities, figure out what mattered to me. And they were important character building moments because I had to figure it out.
00:26:25:06 – 00:27:05:54
Agent Palmer
Yep. And I think that’s why I’m not in that boat is because, like, I, I look back at my shift, sadly, you and I had a similar path, I guess, because, like, so I spent seven years in marketing for, a destination marketing organization. And during those seven years, nine, nine, almost ten years, I think actually, I started the blog and I started podcasting, and I would leave work at 5 or 530 and I would come home and write, edit, or record for another five hours.
00:27:05:54 – 00:27:36:33
Agent Palmer
Now, I was single for a good portion of that. But like, I look back at that and I go, okay, never again. Like I’m not. That was, well, I don’t make money at any of this. This is all passion. I’ve seen a certain level of success, but worse than that, I. I’ve not stopped until I was let go and I went, oh, like, okay, this is the, you know, the first the depression kicks in and then you, you settle down and you get back.
00:27:36:33 – 00:28:03:23
Agent Palmer
And I’m like, well, I still have these passions. Let’s do that. And I was, I don’t know, like when I finally got myself back up, I was like, wait, I was doing this on top of 40 hours. Like, where was not no. Look, it’s not the same as like, where’s the balance? But it was very much like, well, how how do I still have friends like, clearly I wasn’t seeing my family.
00:28:03:35 – 00:28:06:53
Agent Palmer
Like, I just, I wasn’t, and so like.
00:28:06:53 – 00:28:31:26
Amber Naslund
Relate to that. And, and conversely, because I do have a more than 40 hour a week like daytime job now, personal passion projects have suffered as a result. So I’ve had a second book that I’ve been trying to write for probably five years, and it may take me several more before I actually can crank it out and get it published.
00:28:31:31 – 00:28:55:42
Amber Naslund
Because I just can’t do it all, and I have zero interest in draining myself to the dregs in the pursuit of all of that combined. Yeah, I still want to spend time with my kid. I want to ride my horse. I want to hang out with my best friend and her kids. I want to, you know, I want to do those things.
00:28:55:42 – 00:29:12:30
Amber Naslund
I want to travel. I want to live some life outside of that. And just like constantly the pursuit of producing output is going to hinder that. So it’s like I got to make choices about where I spend my time. And that means sometimes projects get put on the backburner because they don’t fit my season of life right now.
00:29:12:35 – 00:29:36:28
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I mean, I’ve already considered like I mean, this is the, the, the preparation thing for me. I’m like, all right, well, if I do get a job, like, I guess I can cut all my content in half and it’s like, it’s like what’s like what’s acceptable for me because again, there is a part of it where it’s like, well, what fills my cup and it yeah, this, this does it.
00:29:36:28 – 00:29:53:21
Agent Palmer
I and it’s weird for people because they’re like, yeah, but you do like talk to people. And that’s what I’m like. But I don’t know. I mean it’s, it’s just like, well, you just you’re a blogger. All you do is write. But no, I do some research, I do some editing on the. But like, it’s it’s not just the fun stuff.
00:29:53:26 – 00:30:08:33
Agent Palmer
But I think that’s what makes it enjoyable. Like, it is still a bit like, I don’t want to say taxing, but like, there are parts of this as a passion where it’s like, go time to time to edit.
00:30:08:37 – 00:30:30:19
Amber Naslund
It’s demanding and it’s demanding and and it’s sometimes the it’s sort of like for me sitting down to write like there are parts of it that are chore like because you’re like, okay, if I want this outcome, I have to sit down and do the work. And that means fingers on keyboards, even when I’m not feeling the muse.
00:30:30:26 – 00:30:52:38
Amber Naslund
Yeah. You know, and I have the luxury of making that choice. But if that were my job, there was a time, before I came to LinkedIn, when I was I before after I got laid off, before I got this job, there was a period of about I want to six, eight months or whatever where I was unemployed and I was doing a fair amount of freelancing in the mean in the meantime.
00:30:52:43 – 00:31:10:31
Amber Naslund
And there were times where, like, I had deadlines and I had clients, and I had like the love of writing wasn’t part of that process. That was a job at that time. And so I had to sit down and write stuff, and I had to sit down and do the work, even when I wasn’t feeling particularly motivated to do it.
00:31:10:36 – 00:31:20:08
Amber Naslund
And I’m looking forward to a day when I can get back to writing for my love of writing, and not because it’s a thing that I have to do.
00:31:20:13 – 00:31:44:51
Agent Palmer
So I. I have to say that my experience with my blog has been like, I’ve talked to a lot of authors, and a lot of them talk about their passion for writing or their addiction to writing. I feel like I’m in a bad relationship with writing like that’s the best, because like, there are moments when I’m like, this is amazing.
00:31:44:51 – 00:31:53:54
Agent Palmer
Look what I wrote. And there are other times that I’m like, oh, this, what the what? What am I doing? Like what? Like and I just.
00:31:53:54 – 00:31:54:56
Amber Naslund
Is, you’re a real writer.
00:31:55:06 – 00:32:21:51
Agent Palmer
I, I don’t know is that is that what that means? Like, because I just felt like I, I, like there are posts that just drive me nuts and I like granted, it’s a passion project, but I’ve also. Sadly, when you talk about, like, professional development, I can sit across from you, the recruiter or interviewer and be like, hey, yeah.
00:32:21:56 – 00:32:53:56
Agent Palmer
So, I know I’ve been out of work for a while, but like, I, I do, put out for like one, one blog post a week and two podcasts every month. And so, you know, every year that’s at least 78 pieces of content that I am, creating. Unnatural by myself from my own whatever. And I have come to learn that, a lot of places don’t consider it legitimate if you’re doing it for yourself.
00:32:54:09 – 00:33:20:55
Agent Palmer
So I’ve started to take on, like, volunteer writing roles so I can pad my portfolio in addition because they’re like, but that’s your blog. I’m like, well, yeah. And if you write it, you know, I take it seriously. And it’s not just like six status updates stuff together on a blog post. But I, I have gotten back to writing things I’m not passionate about or that I have no interest in.
00:33:20:55 – 00:33:39:52
Agent Palmer
It’s like, well, what? What I’m writing for you. So what would you like me to write? And it’s kind of a bit of like, it’s probably the one thing that’s injected the most life into my actual blogging because it’s like, oh, now I get to choose. It’s like this thing I’m volunteering for and I have to write this.
00:33:39:57 – 00:34:05:34
Amber Naslund
Yeah, I get that. I and I think that any writer worth their salt who tells you they love it all the time is lying. Yeah, lying like I, I have a couple of friends who are very successful, novelists and fiction writers, and we talk a lot about the fact that writing is as much discipline as it is pursuit of creativity.
00:34:05:34 – 00:34:25:48
Amber Naslund
Like there’s romanticizing the idea that every time you sit down at the keyboard, you’re feeling super inspired and in love with your craft. Like there’s days when I curse my keyboard or sit at a blank page and the string of epithets falls out of my mouth is like I or I write nonsense, because that’s all that’s in my head that day.
00:34:25:53 – 00:34:38:11
Amber Naslund
And I’ve there’s no writer who has had any modicum of success with writing that has not had a million of those days. It’s like it’s just not love. And infatuation every single day. That’s all.
00:34:38:16 – 00:34:59:36
Agent Palmer
I had a friend of mine who’s like, you should journal. And I was like, all right, I’ll, I’ll try anything. And so I did. And then I stopped. I journaled for a full week. I’d get up. I just I basically just adjusted my morning routine. I said, I got up, I got my coffee, and then I went down into my basement, where I had set up a little like, here’s the pad and pen.
00:34:59:49 – 00:35:21:22
Agent Palmer
We’re not going to do it on a computer because, I’ll get distracted. I’m just going to journal. And after a week, I had written the most negative stuff you have ever seen. Like, I’m never going to get hired again. I can’t believe I have to edit this thing. Like, just not like, and and I know there are people out there listening to this.
00:35:21:22 – 00:35:35:53
Agent Palmer
They’re like, oh, well, you got the bad thoughts out. No no no no no no. When it when I write the thing down it doesn’t leave my body. So like all I was doing was manifesting more negative stuff in the morning.
00:35:35:57 – 00:35:45:37
Amber Naslund
Well it’s it’s a, it’s it’s interesting that you’ve had that experience because my experience is very different that journaling for me is very much a dump.
00:35:45:42 – 00:35:46:43
Agent Palmer
Okay. You can get.
00:35:46:57 – 00:36:16:25
Amber Naslund
To. Yeah. I, I’m a big fan of a practice that comes from the book the Artist’s Wife, called Morning Pages. And the key to it is that it’s very stream of consciousness. So I don’t try to write fancy. I just write vomit. It’s stream of consciousness. Whatever happens to be in my head. And for me, maybe this is partly my neuro spiciness, but it’s also like I find that as clutter cleaning for my brain.
00:36:16:39 – 00:36:40:13
Amber Naslund
Okay, so a lot of the invasive or intrusive thoughts or the hamster wheel, as I jokingly call it, of my head, where there’s just this constant spinning journaling helps me get some of that out. But I, like everybody’s experience is different. So if journaling isn’t a thing that works for you, the other thing I’m always talking to people about is like, you got to pick the things that work and chuck the ones that don’t.
00:36:40:18 – 00:37:05:58
Amber Naslund
So if journaling works for me and not for you, don’t journal. Yeah, it’s like you. You can’t. I have long since realized that all reading, all of people’s like, tips and tricks and hacks and whatever other things I rarely do, other people’s modes and methods work for me. So I’m sort of like this kit batch, massive duct tape and baling wire.
00:37:06:03 – 00:37:24:13
Amber Naslund
But I’ve figured out systems that work for me, and I just sort of ignore what everybody else is doing because I know I’m old enough. Oh, now that I know that, like, you know, some and you popping on to social media with her very first corporate job telling me how to be productive is probably not okay.
00:37:24:21 – 00:37:52:03
Agent Palmer
And I I’ve, I’ve refrained from, like, really taking them to task because, like, there’s a part of me and I’ve drafted it, I’ve drafted them. And like, I consider myself a bigger person because I’ve drafted these and not hit publish. But like there are times when I’m reading some of these hacks and and tricks and tips that you’re talking about, and I’m like, you’ve never worked a day in your life or like, you don’t know what?
00:37:52:03 – 00:37:57:33
Agent Palmer
Like it’s because like, I can you can most of these you can pick apart.
00:37:57:37 – 00:38:19:36
Amber Naslund
I do get a little bit of a chuckle, like, and it really is truly a benevolent chuckle. Like, I’m not being denigrating, but it’s like I do get a little bit of a chuckle. Like the 25 year old life coaches, you know, or whatever. I’m like, oh, and I think back to my 25 year old self and what business I may or may not have had telling anybody what to do with their lives or careers.
00:38:19:41 – 00:38:38:07
Amber Naslund
And I still don’t think I have that right, but at least I have a lot more miles on me now where I feel like I at least have the gift of perspective and experience to share, but I do. I get reached out to a lot to, young women especially, who are wanting to be like, I just had a message on my LinkedIn today, like, don’t you want to be?
00:38:38:16 – 00:38:50:37
Amber Naslund
I want to help you build your coaching business. And like the irony of a young coach reaching out to me to coach me on building a coaching business, there’s something very meta about this. But.
00:38:50:42 – 00:39:25:48
Agent Palmer
See, that’s the word I know. Like, I know that’s the word a lot of people have used. But for me, I just see the word pyramid everywhere I go, like, and and look, I, I’m a I have I made a mistake. And I’ll be the first to admit this. I put podcaster in my LinkedIn bio. And anyone that out there, if there’s a phrase you can come up with that’s not podcast, I get more hey, I can help you promote your podcast.
00:39:25:53 – 00:39:44:14
Agent Palmer
Like and and look, I also want to be open, so I’m not going to close all my messaging. I’m just not that person. But it also leaves me open to, like, all these people trying to help me. And I just think, like, if all of them would just listen to one episode, I would be doing much better.
00:39:44:19 – 00:39:51:06
Agent Palmer
Like, I don’t, I don’t need your promotion. Just take the time. Listen to one episode, any one episode. That’s fine. That’s all I need.
00:39:51:11 – 00:40:12:55
Amber Naslund
Yeah, most of that kind of stuff isn’t very well thought out. Outreach anyway, I got, I get you actually would laugh at how many messages on LinkedIn I get with people trying to sell me like their LinkedIn course or their LinkedIn consulting or their LinkedIn. Like, I can make you a thought leader on LinkedIn. I’m like, yo, I work for LinkedIn.
00:40:12:55 – 00:40:20:17
Amber Naslund
Yeah. Like, did you take 10s to even look at my bio? Because it’s like it’s right there. Like it’s right there.
00:40:20:22 – 00:40:26:55
Agent Palmer
Okay. But here’s the real question. Do you want to be a thought leader?
00:40:27:00 – 00:40:51:33
Amber Naslund
Boy, there’s a can of worms. So thought leader I, a lot of people have an allergy to that term, especially in marketing. I get it, where it’s a little inside baseball for us. Like, we’re very close to the problem because we spend a lot of time thinking about that stuff, and we’re. So we have, like, a natural aversion to it.
00:40:51:38 – 00:41:10:56
Amber Naslund
But it has a lot of legitimacy in the broader business world. So I, I value it and it a lot of the stuff around thought leadership as a concept, I think thought Leader is one of those titles that you don’t self designate. I like you, I it’s like calling yourself
00:41:11:01 – 00:41:23:20
Agent Palmer
Well it’s it’s the guru. It’s the Jedi. We went through this like probably about a decade ago where like, yeah, cool titles were in. I’m not an IT manager. I mean, it, whatever.
00:41:23:20 – 00:41:44:21
Amber Naslund
I just feel like you can’t self bestow a title that really is about other people’s, evaluation of the quality and caliber of your work. So, like, if other people want to think of me as a thought leader or someone who leads in thought in my particular discipline, great. I love that they think that highly of my work.
00:41:44:26 – 00:42:09:05
Amber Naslund
But it is certainly I will never be that person who puts it in my bio. Because it feels weird to me. It just is one of those things that I can’t. I just don’t think I can self designate that. And it is so subjective. So a thought leader to one person, is an absolute shill to somebody else.
00:42:09:10 – 00:42:28:28
Amber Naslund
And I know people who are very well respected in the business world whose advice I would never follow if I was, you know, like if it was the last thing on earth. And they may very well be a respected thought leader, but their values don’t align to mine, so it’s just not a thing anyway. So point being, do I want to be a thought leader?
00:42:28:28 – 00:42:35:10
Amber Naslund
I it’s not something I’m aiming for, but people call me one all the time, so deal with that way you will okay I.
00:42:35:15 – 00:43:04:56
Agent Palmer
I, I just because like I, I like I think about the self designations too and I’m probably like I’m the I’m the realist and the, the the like like you. My real specialty has been like long term thinking to the maybe probably to my own. Like detriment because like, people will be like, We’re thinking about starting a podcast, and we’re going to pay you to edit it.
00:43:04:56 – 00:43:28:41
Agent Palmer
I’m like, great. What’s episode ten? And they’re like, well, we’ll have a we we only have a one. And I’m like, well, there’s probably a mini series and not a podcast. Just, you know, out here being like the guy who’s like, well, I’m over 100 episodes of my own show, and I’ve talked to too many people that stopped at 12, like.
00:43:28:46 – 00:43:36:39
Agent Palmer
And I just I’m not I, I’m, I refuse to take your money for one episode and it’s like,
00:43:36:43 – 00:43:38:13
Amber Naslund
I mean.
00:43:38:18 – 00:43:45:26
Agent Palmer
What’s going on here? I don’t know if that makes me a realist, a pragmatist, or just an idiot for not taking the money. I don’t I don’t know.
00:43:45:31 – 00:44:08:41
Amber Naslund
I don’t know that it’s well, I don’t I don’t I certainly wouldn’t characterize it as idiocy. It sounds to me like what you have is a standard that you prefer, which is working with people who have a lot, who are trying to play a long game versus someone who’s trying to capitalize on a short term, what they perceive to be a trend.
00:44:08:41 – 00:44:26:23
Amber Naslund
I mean, I’m sure there’s lots of people who started podcasts because they’re like, everybody else has a podcast. So I guess I should have a podcast, sort of like back in the day when everybody started a blog, and those of us who were actual prolific bloggers who were like, yeah, yeah, cool. Like, come talk to me in a year and see if you’re still blogging.
00:44:26:27 – 00:44:53:06
Amber Naslund
And lots of people fall off on that kind of stuff. But then again, like, I would like to consider myself a weightlifter, but like, I don’t go to the gym with any regularity either. So. So, you know, I think everybody has to decide what they’re what they’re willing to invest time in. And eventually, if you’re not, if you’re not in it for the long haul, maybe it’s just that your your particular flavor of wanting to work with people is people who are a little more seasoned and dedicated to the craft.
00:44:53:06 – 00:45:13:47
Amber Naslund
And I think that’s okay. Like, you have to pick, especially if those are the kind of clients or partners that fuel you or that inspire you to want to work with them. I think that’s meaningful, and I think you’re allowed to have those standards. Similarly to like when I, I think some of that you have a luxury at a certain point to make those choices.
00:45:13:47 – 00:45:23:01
Amber Naslund
But when I was freelancing, I was picky about my clients, too, because I didn’t want to, you know, I didn’t want to write about irritable bowel syndrome.
00:45:23:06 – 00:45:52:50
Agent Palmer
That’s. Yeah, there’s also a part of me like, I guess not only so, I guess it’s like a bit of self-preservation where it’s like, well, what have you done? Well, I’ve done 17 pilots for 17 different shows and they’ve all died like that. I wouldn’t tell anybody that anyway. Like, but. Right. But none of that work gets shared like, like because you’re like, oh here’s this thing I did.
00:45:52:55 – 00:45:58:12
Agent Palmer
Is there more. No, no, no, it’s just a, a one off like.
00:45:58:12 – 00:46:21:51
Amber Naslund
No. Yeah, yeah. No, I get that. And I don’t know, I mean, I think, I think there’s some something still to be said for trying a lot of things, even if they don’t necessarily go anywhere. But like I said, I think you’re also entitled to be to pick your niche. And maybe that’s like working with people who have some longevity to their work.
00:46:21:56 – 00:46:27:38
Amber Naslund
And there’s probably something to be said for that, because those are the people who maybe will stick around.
00:46:27:43 – 00:46:28:15
Agent Palmer
So I.
00:46:28:17 – 00:46:28:57
Amber Naslund
Ostensibly.
00:46:28:57 – 00:46:55:05
Agent Palmer
I have to ask this question. You have, gone through a lot and you have kind of gotten off the, the, the, the treadmill, as it were. What’s like one thing that, like, maybe you did when you were a kid like that, you’ve you’ve rediscovered as like a fun thing in the last little bit. Now that you’re taking some time for you.
00:46:55:10 – 00:47:16:43
Amber Naslund
For me, it’s horses. Okay. I rode as a kid, and my. I guess it’s kind of cheating because I’ve been back involved with horses because my. For a while since my daughter, when she was about seven, decided she wanted to ride. And she is now far eclipsed my riding talent by several orders of magnitude and rides competitively.
00:47:16:43 – 00:47:42:35
Amber Naslund
And we’ll probably, hopefully she she has aspirations to ride at the collegiate level. But the barn is my sanctuary. It’s like the one very analog place in my life where I can put my phone in my trunk and just be with my animals. My best friend and I co-own a baby. Very young, like, ex racehorse.
00:47:42:40 – 00:48:04:45
Amber Naslund
And my daughter has a very nice horse that that she rides, it competes with. And that’s my happy place. So when I’m fried to a crisp, the barn is the place that I go. And I started doing more of it when my daughter was younger as more of like, barn mom. But I sort of, even at the time, didn’t do it as much for myself.
00:48:04:45 – 00:48:22:27
Amber Naslund
I was like, well, this is a her thing now and I don’t need to ride anymore. But as it turned out, I missed it terribly too. So when I finally let myself go back and like, take lessons. Which is humbling because after you ride as a kid and then you go back and ride as like a middle ager, you’re like, wow, wow, this is harder than I am.
00:48:22:32 – 00:48:33:43
Amber Naslund
And like my body is sort of angry at me for doing these things. Because contrary to popular belief, like equestrian sports are very, like, physically demanding. So,
00:48:33:48 – 00:48:34:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I’m.
00:48:34:35 – 00:48:34:57
Amber Naslund
Anyways.
00:48:35:01 – 00:48:58:03
Agent Palmer
I, I think that everyone who, thinks that writing sports or racing sports are easy should have to do it. Like because they’re like, oh well, I go 95 on the on the highway. Of course I could be a racecar. It’s like, no. Yeah. When you’re pulling five GS in any turn or like you’re going at speed on a horse, like none of that stuff is.
00:48:58:08 – 00:49:05:47
Agent Palmer
First of all, none of that stuff is normal for for anyone. And, and and it’s just not easy. But I it it does.
00:49:05:47 – 00:49:20:51
Amber Naslund
Punishing on your body like. And I’m a race fan too. Like my we go to Indy every year and I really enjoy watching F1 racing and it’s like those are athletes. Oh yeah. The people who race are athletes because the demands it puts on in your body are astronomical.
00:49:20:53 – 00:49:56:52
Agent Palmer
I, I did want to ask, though, if if the the barn was not so analog, do you think it would be as relaxing for you because you absolutely not. Okay, because I only ask because like, I think that there was a time when I first bought my house where I was like, I hate mowing the lawn. And then I spent more and more time at work in front of a computer, and it was like, oh my God, I got to do something with my head, look what I look!
00:49:56:52 – 00:50:04:14
Agent Palmer
Yeah, look what I did. That’s real. And that analog ness is so it’s it’s more than.
00:50:04:15 – 00:50:05:25
Amber Naslund
It’s so restorative.
00:50:05:39 – 00:50:12:25
Agent Palmer
It’s more than just disconnecting. It’s like I did a thing. I accomplished the real thing with my hands.
00:50:12:29 – 00:50:38:34
Amber Naslund
Well, and there’s something to be said for, you know, being outside, being in nature, being like, I, I enjoy gardening, I’m pretty bad at it, but I really enjoy it. I think if I had more time and space, like I have kind of a tiny little yard, but if I had a big yard, I probably would be one of those, like gardening crazies who just has like plants everywhere.
00:50:38:39 – 00:51:03:30
Amber Naslund
Because I love, like the feeling of dirt and being in the dirt and planting flowers and tending thing pulling. I actually enjoy pulling weeds like it’s. But no, I don’t. If if the barn wasn’t as analog as it is, I would probably it would be something else, like gardening or hiking or and or creative pursuits. I was a music major in college, so music plays a really important role in my life.
00:51:03:30 – 00:51:28:55
Amber Naslund
And I still haul out my flute play or sit down at the piano and play. So I need escapism, in the form of either getting outside or entertaining the right side of my brain because my left side gets so much work at work.
00:51:29:00 – 00:52:05:47
Agent Palmer
I spend a lot of time in this space, and this time, after conversations, encouraging you to just create something. But there is something to be said for demanding passion projects like this podcast. It’s not just sitting down to record though. It always looks like that from the outside. There’s reaching out to guests, being professional and communication so people don’t think you’re just some random amateur scheduling time zone juggling, because time zone juggling and scheduling are not necessarily as simple as how about this recording and all the technical know how that comes along with it?
00:52:05:52 – 00:52:28:15
Agent Palmer
And then editing and writing this actual thing I’m speaking right now. And then there’s actually a few more things, but you get the picture. Demanding passion projects often appear to be less than the sum of their parts, but they endure because they are challenging, and they are perhaps more fulfilling than the less demanding ones. But that’s only something I wanted to touch on.
00:52:28:17 – 00:52:49:07
Agent Palmer
The thing I wanted to reiterate the most was just how different Amber and I are, and yet we both unwind in an analog way. For me, it’s most often reading, but also involves cooking, baking, and yard work. And for her it’s the sanctity and analog nature of the barn. Perhaps it’s time you truly unplug for more than just an afternoon.
00:52:49:12 – 00:53:11:35
Agent Palmer
Maybe make it a daily thing. You won’t be sad. You did. Also, I know you can’t save people from themselves, but, let’s let me let me be honest for a moment. It probably won’t stop me from trying. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 121. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
00:53:11:35 – 00:53:30:10
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact Amber and myself in the show notes. There you will find links to Amber relevant social channels, and I encourage you to follow her on your platform of choice. The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Email can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com.
00:53:30:12 – 00:53:45:18
Agent Palmer
And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:53:45:23 – 00:54:20:16
Agent Palmer
You.
00:54:20:20 – 00:54:22:39
Agent Palmer
All right, Amber, do you have one final question for me?
00:54:22:46 – 00:54:46:09
Amber Naslund
I think the one that pops to mind first, that is a little bit inspired by our conversation is all things being equal. If you could hit the reset button today where and money wasn’t the issue, like where would you spend your time and your energy and investment of your heart and mind?
00:54:46:14 – 00:55:12:46
Agent Palmer
I mean, it, it probably is. I’d have to. I’d have to be able to take this knowledge back, is the problem because I look, I started the blog as a writing exercise because I needed to write for my professional gig, and I hadn’t written since college. I had been in retail and done any writing, and I found that I really liked writing, even for myself.
00:55:12:46 – 00:55:38:09
Agent Palmer
So like once I got that going, I was like, well, why wasn’t I doing this all along? Because I started blogging in 2010, or I started blogging well after it was a thing, so I would have started that much sooner. And I think the podcast would probably be the same thing. Like, I enjoy having just open conversations about anything with anyone.
00:55:38:14 – 00:55:57:18
Agent Palmer
And you can compare that to whomever you prefer. But like, I think I would have started I was, people would, like, accuse me of like, being a proxy caster, which I loved because it was like, oh, he doesn’t need his own show. He’s got yours. Because I would just guest on everybody’s shows and everybody’s going.
00:55:57:18 – 00:55:59:58
Amber Naslund
To say, I don’t think I’ve heard that term. Yeah, basically, yeah.
00:55:59:58 – 00:56:39:46
Agent Palmer
It’s just because like I was, you know, and I still have it on my site as like a little fun Easter egg. It’s like, here are the I think it’s a I think I’m close to approaching this show being more prolific than that, but I guest it on like 101 hundred plus episodes of other people’s shows. Some of them were occasional recurring bits, some of them weren’t, but it was very much like, all right, well, last, you know, ten years ago or five years ago or whenever it was, it would be like, oh, well, I guest it on seven shows this month, or like, I guest it on three, and all I have
00:56:39:46 – 00:56:58:35
Agent Palmer
to do is show up and talk. Why would I start my own? I don’t have to. I’d like I can help promote it, but I don’t have to edit it. They’re scheduling it. Like what? I’m perfect, right? And I still think I would enjoy. I enjoy that, but it’s the two things that are the most creative for me the blog and the podcast.
00:56:58:46 – 00:57:03:23
Agent Palmer
I would have just started so much earlier, like, yeah.
00:57:03:32 – 00:57:08:32
Amber Naslund
Is that what it is for you? Is like, is it the creativity of it? Is it the like, what part?
00:57:08:32 – 00:57:32:47
Agent Palmer
Oh no. It’s everything. Oh no. It’s everything. I don’t mind, and perhaps this is the moderation of it. I don’t mind the editing. I don’t mind the promotion. And really, I don’t mind, like, the behind the scenes, like, hey, let’s do some timezone math. Let’s figure out when we can record, like, all of that. And perhaps it is in moderation.
00:57:32:47 – 00:57:50:41
Agent Palmer
You know, I put out two shows a month, or maybe three, depending on how the weeks go, but it’s every other week, and I put out one blog a week. So I have the ability to not only work ahead, but then I get to weather the storm on like, you know, I, I have a list on my desk somewhere.
00:57:50:46 – 00:58:12:26
Agent Palmer
We’re recording this in March. It’ll probably go out in April or May is my guess if my math is right. And you could be listening to this well into the future. But as it stands right now, I have a list of five blog posts that if I draft before the end of March, we’ll finish my July right.
00:58:12:26 – 00:58:39:48
Agent Palmer
Like I’m that far ahead, which means if I get depressed, if I find a, if something happens, God forbid, if I just end up like with writer’s block, I have some time to work through it. And the same is true for the podcast, like we’re recording ahead. So that way if I can’t get a guest because this is this show, by the way, in case you haven’t wondered, this show doesn’t work without a, you like this dude.
00:58:39:53 – 00:58:43:33
Amber Naslund
I don’t I mean, you could talk to yourself, but it would probably be a little bit less.
00:58:43:34 – 00:58:57:05
Agent Palmer
It’s not nearly as exciting. No. Yeah. But, like, so I, I think it’s all of the things, I get to be a little bit, you know, I’ve got spreadsheets to keep myself organized.
00:58:57:10 – 00:59:19:18
Amber Naslund
You know, it’s just so interesting because, like, I, I loved I mean, I had a blog for eons and I loved it until I did it. But I, like I’ve there’s never been a part of me that has desired to be a YouTuber or to start a podcast. Like, I’m perfectly happy to do this and like, be guests on podcasts.
00:59:19:18 – 00:59:41:16
Amber Naslund
But there’s nothing that interests me about the production side of a podcast. I’ve thought about it simply because, like you, I enjoy conversating with interesting people. But I think that I would end up fatigued by the operational side of things such that it took away from the joy part of it. For me.
00:59:41:17 – 00:59:59:09
Agent Palmer
That’s where the the bad sort leadership for podcasting comes into play, because they will all tell you all of them that my show doesn’t work. It’s every other week you’re going to lose people in the off week. I don’t just talk to authors.
00:59:59:09 – 01:00:00:45
Amber Naslund
But I tell you how it’s too long.
01:00:00:50 – 01:00:22:53
Agent Palmer
You know, that comes and goes. That’s it. That that comes and goes. I have the benefit of people forgetting conveniently about, like, a Marc Maron and a Joe Rogan, which average closer to 75 to 3 hours, and they forget about them, and then they go like, oh, you need 25 minutes. And then they remember that those are two of the bigger shows, and they go, oh yeah, an hour’s fine.
01:00:22:53 – 01:00:47:19
Agent Palmer
And so like that, that comes and goes, but like, you know, personally I would tell you absolutely start a show, but like, do it in ten episode Micro Seasons where you can stuff like that’s my big problem as far as the podcast is concerned, is I work ahead so I can take time off because I didn’t think like, oh, maybe I should do a season.
01:00:47:24 – 01:01:14:21
Agent Palmer
And I met like a hundred plus in like at this point, like, you know, you just don’t do a season. It’s fine. But like, I, I think if you want to do it for the reasons you stated, if you, if you choose not to do 52 in a year, if you choose to do 26 or 13 or 12, you would absolutely not get bogged down in all that other stuff.
01:01:14:26 – 01:01:31:50
Amber Naslund
But that’s. Well, and I would actually I would for sure have to like pay other people to do the like post-production and editing and publishing stuff because a I lack the knowledge and skills and b I lack the will and fortitude to learn those things.
01:01:31:55 – 01:01:42:49
Agent Palmer
Like, I don’t think that’s true because I, I look at everything where you are right now and, and everything we talked about in the, the main episode, like what.
01:01:42:53 – 01:01:43:49
Amber Naslund
Are.
01:01:43:54 – 01:01:49:52
Agent Palmer
The skills I have that you don’t would take you a week to get like, I just I’ve.
01:01:49:52 – 01:01:51:41
Amber Naslund
Been like, I don’t know if I want to.
01:01:51:43 – 01:02:03:52
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s fair. That’s entirely true. Look, that’s fair. And look, I would say if you’re comfortable guesting on shows, there is nothing better in the world than showing up to talk and leaving.
01:02:03:57 – 01:02:04:46
Amber Naslund
Right?
01:02:04:51 – 01:02:06:52
Agent Palmer
That’s the best feeling in the world.
01:02:06:57 – 01:02:29:10
Amber Naslund
Well, and I like like I said, I think it’s it’s also just, it’s a medium bias. So like, I’m a writer, I just, I gravitate toward writing and I, I on my better days, I love writing and I love the feeling that comes with writing. And maybe, I don’t know, I like I don’t know if podcasting is something I would fall in love with, and maybe I should try it and see.
01:02:29:15 – 01:02:58:48
Agent Palmer
But I mean, I’ll say this I before the podcast, even with all the proxy casting stuff I did, what I called interrogations because I, I still lean pretty heavily on the spy brand stuff for Agent Palmer, but like, they were longform maybe for back and forth email conversations. And I will tell you, the editing the show is much easier than going back and forth with you over email.
01:02:58:53 – 01:03:00:25
Amber Naslund
For for that, I for a.
01:03:00:30 – 01:03:26:17
Agent Palmer
Phone conversation. And I like talking to people. So it kind of works both ways. But like I just I’m, I’m also of the mind and this makes me an outcast in some of my own circles where like everybody’s like, well, you’re a blogger, why don’t you just read your blog and put out a, an episode for I feel like I, I want each media, I want I I’m still now talking about going into video.
01:03:26:20 – 01:03:50:10
Agent Palmer
The problem with it is not that I don’t have any ideas, it’s that all the ideas I have are bad because I want the medium to be unique. You go to my blog for my written word on that stuff. You come here for conversation. You’re not going to go to my YouTube channel for more of the same, that I can just do that here or whatever on the blog.
01:03:50:10 – 01:03:56:57
Agent Palmer
So like I, I’m trying to, be different instead of just.
01:03:57:01 – 01:04:27:16
Amber Naslund
Well, that’s interesting because I think that part of my mental roadblock around people have asked me to start a podcast or said like, oh, this would make a great podcast. Like the this concept or topic or whatever. And I resist it because I’m like, yeah, but like, I don’t do I want to do yet another like interview podcast of like that’s the same old format which the same old like that just seems so very not interesting.
01:04:27:21 – 01:05:03:50
Amber Naslund
And so I’ve, I’ve often thought about whether I could or wanted to create something that was a little bit more, like just differently structured somehow. And that was included some stuff that was more monologues or other stuff that was like without me entirely. That was I had the mic entirely over to somebody I don’t know, but I just cannot get myself excited about doing yet another back and forth interview podcast, because I feel like so many people are doing that so well that I’m not going to add anything to that that’s useful.
01:05:03:50 – 01:05:23:44
Agent Palmer
That was how I arrived at this concept. I was like, and look, I don’t mean because I’ve I’ve taken some chances on some guests because I have nothing to lose. So I’ve had people that have never done a podcast ever. And I’m their only one. But the, the episodes of mine that turn into interviews are ones where I fail as host.
01:05:23:49 – 01:05:44:51
Agent Palmer
So it’s like, that’s my concept. Like, if I have to, like, it’s fine asking you a question every once in a while. That’s going to happen when we’re having a cup of coffee in a cafe. Sure. But if you’re like, just giving me a sentence or two and not throwing the ball back in this conversation that I failed here.
01:05:44:51 – 01:06:13:49
Agent Palmer
But like I, I in theory, everyone has the ability to do whatever they want on the audio format. I think people get a lot really lost because people are like, well, I also have to do a video. It’s like, no, you don’t. And so and people get a bit lost in like the weeds on the mediums plural then just.
01:06:13:54 – 01:06:25:09
Agent Palmer
All right. I have a blog I write about. Cool things I’ve seen or read or what’s on my mind. I have a podcast and I talk to cool people. It’s not none of this is rocket surgery.
01:06:25:14 – 01:06:31:08
Amber Naslund
Yeah, no. And I think, I mean, like, I, I’m and I’m a chronic overthinker. So that could be for.
01:06:31:13 – 01:06:48:13
Agent Palmer
You and I are I so am I though I it it really does I mean I needed a good idea to start this show, but I can I can show you the tonnage of notes that I wrote down of like potential ideas for what this could have in.
01:06:48:18 – 01:07:08:24
Amber Naslund
Yeah, I think that’s the other thing too, is I’m, I admittedly one of my Achilles heels. Well, I don’t know. I guess it could be a strength or a weakness, depending on how you frame it. But I’m really good at starting things. I’m not always great at finishing them or following through on them. So I’ve had like, I have a bazillion ideas bobbing around my head at all given times.
01:07:08:28 – 01:07:13:47
Amber Naslund
But my follow through sometimes lacks and I will lose stamina. I think it’s because.
01:07:13:47 – 01:07:26:52
Agent Palmer
But how? What’s any like. But how how intensive are these? Right, like I had, I have started more blog posts than I’ve published. Right. I can tell you that right now.
01:07:27:03 – 01:07:31:57
Amber Naslund
So like in my notes app in my phone is basically my graveyard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:07:32:02 – 01:07:38:21
Agent Palmer
So it’s mine. That’s that’s where that’s where. Great ideas go. And they either get resurrected or they die. That’s.
01:07:38:21 – 01:07:50:53
Amber Naslund
Yeah. Absolutely. I like I have a lot of writing graveyards. I have a lot of project graveyards. I have a lot of. Burgeoning business idea graveyards.
01:07:50:58 – 01:07:55:18
Agent Palmer
And by the time you get back to it, it’s not a burgeoning business anymore.
01:07:55:23 – 01:08:17:34
Amber Naslund
Yeah. Or it’s just like I’ve lost all interest. I again, I go back to, like, I think there’s part of this that’s like my, my neurodiversity, ADHD ish ness that I will even with my hobbies, like creative hobbies, I will pick up something artistic and fixate on it for a while, and then abruptly be so over it that I don’t want to see it ever again.
01:08:17:39 – 01:08:32:47
Amber Naslund
I, I went through a phase, for example, of doing, paper quilling, which I don’t know if you’re familiar with what that is, but it’s like long strips of paper that you curl up into tiny little spirals and you make little shapes with them, and then you make the little shapes into bigger shapes, and it’s really cool.
01:08:32:52 – 01:08:48:09
Amber Naslund
And it’s very beautiful. And I was like, I want to teach myself how to do that. And so I did. And so for weeks on end, every time my daughter would come out of her room, their mom was like hovered over the paper, quilling like making a mess. And then one day I was just like, sick of it.
01:08:48:09 – 01:09:14:55
Amber Naslund
And I packed it all up and I put it away. And I haven’t touched it since. Okay. Yeah. So so there’s a few things that have like, music has been, like music writing, needlework. Some of those things have been like consistent through lines for me, but I’m very much a shiny object chaser sometimes. And that that can be to my benefit when I’m just ping pong, getting a lot of ideas.
01:09:14:55 – 01:09:19:56
Amber Naslund
But it can also be my downfall because I’m like, yeah, so that was a great idea. For ten minutes.
01:09:20:01 – 01:09:39:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I feel that and like musically I have that where it’s like I have a few instruments in the house. Now look, the tenor saxophone is probably never getting picked up ever again. I know there’s not a good read in this house, but like I have, bass is one of my loves. I can play guitar and I got a drum kit.
01:09:39:40 – 01:10:16:27
Agent Palmer
And, like, there are times when it’s like. Like I always dream of being a well-balanced, like. Oh, like in any given seven day period, I have picked up the bass or guitar and the drums, but that’s never like I will play the bass for months and then I’ll be like, I haven’t touched the guitar in a while, and then I’ll just play the guitar for months and it’ll be like, yeah, I haven’t touched any like, so it, I don’t know if it’s you get in a groove or like it is that like shiny thing where it’s like it’s not even new, like it’s, it’s old, but I’m going back to it.
01:10:16:32 – 01:10:17:21
Agent Palmer
It’s. Yeah, yeah.
01:10:17:26 – 01:10:41:25
Amber Naslund
I did that all the time. I resurrect things, to and maybe I’ll come back to the paper following someday. It’s like still here on the shelf somewhere. But I also, I think the positive side of that is that I like having fresh stimuli around me or fresh things that I can be like, oh, that’s new. I forgot I did that once, like, I’ll do that again.
01:10:41:37 – 01:10:59:00
Amber Naslund
For example, when I was in college, I paid a lot of my bills by doing calligraphy. I taught myself how to do calligraphy, and I made a fair bit of like side hustle money, doing wedding invitations and all that kind of stuff. But then it very quickly became a job, and then I didn’t love it as much anymore.
01:10:59:00 – 01:11:15:53
Amber Naslund
And then I kind of set it aside. But then, you know, a couple of years ago, I picked it back up again. I’m like, oh, I forgot that I really loved this. So I kind of like having an arsenal of rotating. Yeah, shiny objects that that I can repurpose and be like, oh, right, dust that off. Remember that?
01:11:15:58 – 01:11:30:03
Amber Naslund
So like I said, I’ve had a few that are like my stalwarts, but, I worry sometimes about taking on something like a podcast and being like that. My next shiny object. Am I going to do like six of them and be like, wow, this, this sucks. I don’t want to do this anymore. And maybe, I mean, who cares?
01:11:30:03 – 01:11:33:46
Amber Naslund
Maybe there’s no consequence to doing that. But, I don’t know.
01:11:33:46 – 01:11:36:12
Agent Palmer
Maybe someday. Yeah, we’ll talk off mic.
01:11:36:17 – 01:11:38:00
Amber Naslund
Okay. Fair enough.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).