Episode 109 features the return of Edward O’Hare, who has been my guide through my Star Trek journey, and we’re going to reflect on my adventures with the original cast, before I embark upon The Next Generation.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Star Trek: The Original Series
- Star Trek: The Animated Series
- Star Trek: The Motion Picture
- Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
- Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
- Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
- Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
- Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
- Ed prepares me to watch Star Trek: The Next Generation
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
–End Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:03 – 00:00:26:11
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com Palmer’s Trek says goodbye to the original cast. Coupland is ever timeless in the buzzworthy generation A and Eric is still wondering why everyone is hiding from him the books they are writing. This is The Palmer Files episode 109, featuring the return of Edward O’Hare, who has been my guide through my Star Trek journey, and we’re going to reflect on my adventures with the original cast before I embark upon the next generation.
00:00:26:26 – 00:00:37:26
Agent Palmer
Are you ready? Let’s boldly go.
00:00:37:31 – 00:01:00:00
Agent Palmer
Palmer’s trek, the final frontier. These are my voyages on a continuing mission to explore Star Trek. To seek out television series and movies. To boldly go where many fans have gone before.
00:01:00:05 – 00:01:24:36
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 109th episode is Edward O’Hare, a friend and returning guest who’s here to help guide me as I traverse the television and movies of one of his most beloved pillars of fandom, Star Trek. During the episode, we discuss Star Trek The Original Series, Star Trek The Animated Series, and the Star Trek movies one through six.
00:01:24:48 – 00:01:50:39
Agent Palmer
Basically, all of the original cast, television, and movies. This was recorded many, many, many months ago, but I waited until all of my individual posts published on Agent palmer.com before releasing this discussion. Something similar will happen in the future as I continue to watch more Trek. So that’s what you’re in for. But for those of you not following along on the blog, why is any of this happening at all?
00:01:50:44 – 00:02:10:56
Agent Palmer
That’s a good question, but the most obvious answer is simply why not? So let’s talk about Star Trek. But first, remember, if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all contact information for Ed and myself in the show notes. There you can find more information about my guest Ed by checking out his contributions to Wicked Theory at Wicked theory.com.
00:02:11:10 – 00:02:37:31
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and ratings on Agent palmer.com, including and specifically Agent palmer.com/star Trek, which will take you to all of Palmer’s Trek series posts about Star Trek I’ve written so far, and if you’re reading this in the future, even more stuff. Email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So, without further ado, let’s boldly go.
00:02:37:36 – 00:02:42:07
Agent Palmer
And I have taken a journey.
00:02:42:12 – 00:02:42:30
Edward O’Hare
00:02:42:35 – 00:03:11:26
Agent Palmer
A big one. I would say, an undertaking, if you will. And you are here to kind of help me process everything I have just watched. And that being all of Star Trek with the original cast, as a as because as of recording, I have not watched anything else. But by the time this releases, hopefully I will have watched a lot more.
00:03:11:41 – 00:03:23:19
Agent Palmer
So I have I have done the, The Two Adventures of Captain Pike and The Many Adventures of Captain Kirk. That’s what I have done. That’s it.
00:03:23:24 – 00:03:23:57
Edward O’Hare
Okay.
00:03:23:58 – 00:03:55:19
Agent Palmer
And I want to say you have been very supportive, throughout this endeavor, as I, I think we spoke probably every 3 or 4 episodes through the original run and then definitely after every movie, and a bunch during the animated series. And you’re always good for like some DVD commentary. I didn’t know. But I, I have to ask from your side.
00:03:55:19 – 00:04:16:04
Agent Palmer
Right. Because I think I showed you an early draft of, like, this is where I am, and the little I know of Trek. So you saw where I was and you, you’ve been with me on this journey. Do you get to relive a little bit of it as like, it’s my first time. And has that been fun?
00:04:16:09 – 00:04:40:47
Edward O’Hare
Oh, hey, man, it’s always fun when I’m talking about Star Trek. All right. All right. Hey, you know, it’s the. Let me let me just. You know, how people, you know, with fandom, it’s not just one thing. It’s all different niches and everything, and and people have pillars. Well, let me tell you, my friend, there are three pillars to my fandom.
00:04:40:51 – 00:05:04:08
Edward O’Hare
The three things that I enjoy more than anything else. And they are DC comics, James Bond and Star Trek. Okay. All right. The first image that I have a memory of seeing on screen is the cutest of Borg, which who you’re going to meet in the next generation. Okay. All right. So this is this has been with me for as long as I have.
00:05:04:08 – 00:05:10:13
Edward O’Hare
I’ve had you know, I can remember being conscious. Okay. So,
00:05:10:18 – 00:05:12:16
Edward O’Hare
We.
00:05:12:20 – 00:05:36:32
Edward O’Hare
You know, so, so, I’m, I’m always excited to talk about Star Trek. You know, I, I don’t need a reason, you know, and especially with this, this original cast, you know, I mean, these the OGs is where it all started, you know, and, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you’re asking me, did I have. Yeah. No, I, I had fun, I had fun talking to you about it, you know, but that’s, you know, to me it’s this.
00:05:36:37 – 00:05:37:34
Edward O’Hare
You know, this was.
00:05:37:34 – 00:05:44:16
Edward O’Hare
This was like, you know, this this was like taking you through Bible study, my friend. You know, this is, you know.
00:05:44:21 – 00:05:47:51
Agent Palmer
Okay, so this is the Old Testament, and I’m about to jump into the New Testament.
00:05:47:53 – 00:05:51:31
Edward O’Hare
Oh, my, oh, my friends, my friends. You have no idea.
00:05:51:31 – 00:05:53:56
Agent Palmer
Okay, well, yeah, I don’t, I mean, I, you know.
00:05:53:58 – 00:05:56:12
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, it’s.
00:05:56:17 – 00:05:56:40
Agent Palmer
I.
00:05:56:41 – 00:06:18:40
Edward O’Hare
You know, I’ll, I’ll save that conversation for later in the episode. Let’s let, let’s, let’s focus, you know, and oh, you know, I mean, first off, by the way. Yeah. You remember when the, when the pandemic started, coronavirus and everyone was telling you to wash your hands and you had to, you had to wash your hands for, like, what was 20s and.
00:06:18:40 – 00:06:22:41
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, you know, they told you to sing the happy birthday song twice.
00:06:22:46 – 00:06:23:17
Agent Palmer
Yep.
00:06:23:22 – 00:06:31:19
Edward O’Hare
No, my friend, the only speech you needed to recite was in the right cadence space.
00:06:31:24 – 00:06:37:37
Edward O’Hare
The final frontier.
00:06:37:42 – 00:06:40:19
Edward O’Hare
I.
00:06:40:24 – 00:07:12:19
Agent Palmer
As it will come as no shock to you. My favorite piece to all of this is is the animated series. I adore the anime like I, I, so I think it’s important to clarify why I adore the animated series out of all of it. Right? I fell in love about three episodes in to the original OG series that I the the writing just had me hook, line and sinker.
00:07:12:31 – 00:07:20:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah, from the get go. I think it really hits its stride in season two and in season three, it’s interesting. Some things they tried.
00:07:20:35 – 00:07:24:38
Edward O’Hare
Oh, it is interesting my friends.
00:07:24:43 – 00:07:25:28
Agent Palmer
Oh boy.
00:07:25:28 – 00:07:26:22
Edward O’Hare
Do they try.
00:07:26:22 – 00:07:52:29
Agent Palmer
Oh, so. So we get there right. And and then I’m, I finish that and it’s time for the animated series. And you know, I, I’m a sucker for animation to begin with. But I think the reason I enjoy the animated series is because not only did the show figure out what it was doing through all of its trial and error, and like season one, but like they hit a stride in season two.
00:07:52:34 – 00:08:22:03
Agent Palmer
They tried some things in season three. And then for the animated series, they really knew how to tell a story. They were, I think the writers room, such as it was, the writers must have been thrilled to not be limited to what you can shoot on film. Yeah, because we get some amazing episodes in the animated series that just could not exist, you know, before 1985.
00:08:22:03 – 00:08:35:34
Edward O’Hare
That that is true. That is true. And especially and that’s, actually that’s actually partially why a lot of people, a lot of fans didn’t acknowledge the animated series and didn’t think of it as, canon, quote unquote.
00:08:35:34 – 00:08:36:55
Agent Palmer
I don’t understand why, but.
00:08:37:00 – 00:08:41:07
Edward O’Hare
Until until maybe about ten years ago, what?
00:08:41:12 – 00:08:43:41
Agent Palmer
Because they were doing things not shot on film, like.
00:08:43:41 – 00:09:23:39
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, well, just because, you know, some of those aliens, you know, if you wanted to bring them into continuity and this is something that that you learn very early on, is that hardcore Trek fans invented continuity. I’m sorry, what the. But but you know, the way that a lot of IPS are beholden to, you know, hold themselves to, you know, this is the way things are supposed to be, or you can’t do this because it contradicts something that happens in in a comic book from three years ago, Star Trek was really like the first fan base to originate that, and it was conscious of that.
00:09:23:44 – 00:09:31:42
Edward O’Hare
From the beginning, you know, and so because certain things, because it’s animated, some things don’t.
00:09:31:56 – 00:09:32:46
Edward O’Hare
Quite.
00:09:32:50 – 00:09:36:29
Edward O’Hare
Fit into the same,
00:09:36:33 – 00:09:37:28
Edward O’Hare
And.
00:09:37:33 – 00:09:57:57
Edward O’Hare
It, you know, it doesn’t fit nicely alongside the live action stuff. For a long time it was disregarded. And also because it wasn’t widely, the animated series wasn’t widely available because there were only 22, wasn’t really syndicated that often. I think it was. It probably ran on the Sci-Fi channel now and then. You know, it had a VHS release.
00:09:57:57 – 00:10:00:40
Edward O’Hare
It probably wasn’t really until it was released on.
00:10:00:44 – 00:10:01:42
Edward O’Hare
DVD.
00:10:01:42 – 00:10:03:43
Edward O’Hare
In the mid aughts. Okay.
00:10:03:48 – 00:10:09:36
Agent Palmer
Wait, really, it doesn’t hit DVD until after the turn of the century?
00:10:09:40 – 00:10:26:08
Edward O’Hare
I mean, that that’s, you know, I, I want to say. Yeah, I was in high school when we got that DVD, but also because, remember, they they took their time with that, you know, and that that’s about when, Next Gen and Deep Space Nine were being released on DVD.
00:10:26:15 – 00:10:56:24
Agent Palmer
Okay. So I obviously I don’t know what I don’t know, but I will say there is a for, for someone going through it the first time, the perspective of watching it with no waiting, is like somebody watching Star Wars without having to wait the 15 years for the next film, right? Like so. And Trek had its dead periods too.
00:10:56:24 – 00:11:18:20
Agent Palmer
But, like, I’m skipping over, like, I’m. I’m literally skipping over it. I waited, whatever the length of time it took me to write the post for the original series is the time I spent waiting to watch the animated series, and vice versa. So like, I maybe 2 or 3 days are in between. I didn’t have to wait.
00:11:18:20 – 00:11:41:47
Agent Palmer
And then even from the animated series to the motion picture, I didn’t have to wait. Right? So I think that there’s watching these things so close together. And not having that, I mean, it’s, it’s it’s I like I’m really caught up in the binge culture, right? Because I don’t have to wait for anything. I just get to move on to the next one.
00:11:41:52 – 00:11:42:13
Edward O’Hare
Right?
00:11:42:13 – 00:12:06:58
Agent Palmer
Like you, I, I think I’ve had a few day gap between the last movie I saw and us recording this, so it’s gonna be the longest gap I’ve really had. Now going into Next Generation, which I’ll probably watch tomorrow. But like that space feels important.
00:12:07:03 – 00:12:07:33
Edward O’Hare
And.
00:12:07:37 – 00:12:26:49
Agent Palmer
I, I’m a fan. Like, don’t get me wrong at the moment. Yeah, I’m a fan of the OG cast. I don’t want to say I’m a fan of Star Trek because there’s a ton of it. I haven’t seen yet. And, I, I when I tell people what I’m doing, especially Trek fans, there’s people that are like, oh, you’ll love deep Space Night or like, oh, you’ll love Voyager.
00:12:27:00 – 00:12:43:34
Agent Palmer
I nobody’s told me I’ll like the same thing, by the way of like, what’s coming down the like telling them where I’m at. Everybody’s like, you’re like something different. But I think that space is important, especially in a fandom in general, because, like.
00:12:43:36 – 00:12:44:05
Edward O’Hare
Of course.
00:12:44:15 – 00:12:51:06
Agent Palmer
I have no context of waiting. So, look, I, I found the motion picture kind of boring.
00:12:51:11 – 00:12:54:41
Edward O’Hare
Well, I mean, just just to to carry my dad.
00:12:54:43 – 00:12:55:25
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:12:55:30 – 00:13:12:22
Edward O’Hare
You know, I, I, I came to this cuz my dad, my dad grew up with the original series, you know, so saw it as, as it was airing on NBC in the 60s. And when it went off the air, my dad was ten years old, and he had to wait a decade before the motion picture came out.
00:13:12:24 – 00:13:29:04
Edward O’Hare
He waited ten long years. And, you know, just kind of as an as all that time it was airing in syndication and building and building that fan base and, and, you know, so think of the decade. Well, you had to wait between that to get to the motion picture.
00:13:29:04 – 00:13:51:45
Agent Palmer
And the closest you get in between that time period, right, is Close Encounters and Star Wars. Right. Like you’ve got some other tentpoles, you know, sticking in the ground of like, successful science fiction. And I it obviously changes the perspective of on every of the, on every single one of the movies. Right. Because I, I watched them all in like a three week span.
00:13:51:59 – 00:13:56:37
Agent Palmer
I watched all six movies in a three week span, which is not.
00:13:56:42 – 00:13:57:16
Edward O’Hare
What.
00:13:57:21 – 00:14:19:00
Agent Palmer
Anyone’s experience was when they were being released. Which means I’m also comparing them much more closely to the actuality of having watched the certain things. Right. I’m not comparing the motion picture to the memory of watching the OG series. No, I, I just finished.
00:14:19:05 – 00:14:19:51
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:14:19:55 – 00:14:34:28
Agent Palmer
So I think that’s important. But I, I have to say behind the animated series, then I think it immediately goes to the TV og series. And then there’s a list of movies.
00:14:34:33 – 00:14:35:15
Edward O’Hare
Okay.
00:14:35:20 – 00:14:35:38
Edward O’Hare
All right.
00:14:35:38 – 00:14:37:31
Agent Palmer
Well I well yeah.
00:14:37:36 – 00:14:51:37
Edward O’Hare
Just really what what I want to know is, is going back to the original series. What did you get out of it? You know what what what do you think makes makes make Star Trek special? What did you learn from it?
00:14:51:41 – 00:15:17:37
Agent Palmer
I know I think it’s important to know that, it’s like they’re all the plays we wish we could have done if you were in theater because, like, they’re all three set pieces, okay? Like, even when they’re on a planet, it’s not really like they’re on a planet, you know? And so I think they did a lot the writing does a lot of the heavy lifting.
00:15:17:37 – 00:15:41:32
Agent Palmer
And I think that’s where I learned my lesson of like, well, of course I was going to like Star Trek because, like, I’m a guy who falls in love with the writing. I don’t I don’t fall in love as much with the pomp and circumstance, and I don’t need the flashy, you know, effects and all that stuff. But if you’ve got a good story to tell and you’ve got some good dialog, I’m here for it.
00:15:41:37 – 00:15:50:39
Agent Palmer
And the, the, the show has that in spades because it has to. The rest of the stuff doesn’t really exist.
00:15:50:44 – 00:15:51:04
Edward O’Hare
00:15:52:16 – 00:16:19:57
Agent Palmer
So it was kind of fun and the other thing I think that’s most important for people watching it now or going back to it or coming to it for the first time. It’s a true serial. Oh my God, it’s a true serial. Like he has some times there’s, you know, oh, about that thing. We did that one time, but for the most part, the adventure of last week is gone and we’re on to a new adventure.
00:16:20:02 – 00:16:23:30
Agent Palmer
And yeah, I loved that.
00:16:23:35 – 00:16:32:07
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, it’s an anthology format. Is is is really what it is. You know, it’s it’s that episodic, you know, standalone stories.
00:16:32:07 – 00:16:32:58
Agent Palmer
And when you can which is.
00:16:32:58 – 00:16:34:27
Edward O’Hare
Really what, what it’s built on.
00:16:34:28 – 00:17:08:31
Agent Palmer
When you compare that to everything I’m watching, that’s modern. We’re like, you can’t skip an episode. Like, look, I didn’t skip an episode, but like, you have to remember what happened last week. It’s like, no, I enjoyed that episode. And now you get to enjoy this next one. Like. And that’s it now that’s it. I believe that The Menagerie part one and two, some of the best reuse.
00:17:08:36 – 00:17:08:57
Edward O’Hare
Of.
00:17:09:02 – 00:17:14:29
Agent Palmer
Of of of a pilot I’ve ever seen in television history.
00:17:14:33 – 00:17:17:30
Edward O’Hare
Well, do you want to just just give a bit of context for listeners?
00:17:17:40 – 00:18:03:27
Agent Palmer
Sure. Yeah. So the The Menagerie part one and two basically takes the pilot, which features Captain Pike and puts it in a, like a revisionist history type thing in a courtroom, where we then basically over the course of two episodes, rewatch. Yeah, the entirety of that episode, that pilot episode with Captain Pike, on a screen in like, a jury courtroom at the same time that Captain Pike and Captain Kirk are sitting next to each other watching this happen, and a courtroom drama unfolds.
00:18:03:32 – 00:18:05:15
Agent Palmer
But it was.
00:18:05:20 – 00:18:06:02
Edward O’Hare
It.
00:18:06:06 – 00:18:16:58
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, it’s inventive, I guess, in a way that, like, I wasn’t expecting it to be better because it’s the same thing.
00:18:17:03 – 00:18:40:10
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, but it puts it in a whole different wrapping. And, and especially, you know, it gives you a whole different take on the Captain Pike character, who we, we didn’t get to experience, full fledged, you know, and there’s a and, you know, there’s even a series that’s on the air on Paramount+ right now called Strange New Worlds, which, which takes place on Captain Pike’s Enterprise.
00:18:40:14 – 00:18:49:52
Edward O’Hare
And you could see a lot of the differences between him and Kirk, and just and just how, you know, the influence that each of those captains had on Spock.
00:18:49:57 – 00:19:20:14
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s that’s the one thing of those two episodes. It’s like it’s the first time you see Spock kind of torn between, you know, two masters. But outside of that, I think it’s just generally fairly playful. Right. And I, I want to say that with the caveat. The science fiction I grew up reading was Asimov right?
00:19:20:19 – 00:19:24:24
Agent Palmer
And, Clarke,
00:19:24:29 – 00:19:28:41
Edward O’Hare
The Brad Bradbury and Ellison and Matheson. Yeah.
00:19:28:46 – 00:19:28:51
Edward O’Hare
Well.
00:19:29:05 – 00:19:30:28
Edward O’Hare
And science, more horror. But yeah.
00:19:30:28 – 00:19:45:55
Agent Palmer
These are not light science fiction fare. These are these are guys that care about the science and the plot more than, like, almost anything else. And so,
00:19:46:00 – 00:20:12:03
Agent Palmer
A light science fiction fare was new to me. Even, like, I know that as Star Wars has evolved over the years, it’s added in a bit more humor. It’s kind of that I don’t want to. I don’t say this lightly, but it’s got that Marvel sheen where like, we’re going to add just a tinge, like just the right amount of humor to not make it a super serious science fiction thing.
00:20:12:08 – 00:20:36:29
Agent Palmer
But Trek never took itself too seriously. Like, throughout the whole thing, there are always moments of levity around the corner, and when they want you to be sad, they want you to be sad, and they just skip the levity altogether. But I feel like as a series as a whole, it does a very good job of literally entertaining you.
00:20:36:33 – 00:20:52:59
Edward O’Hare
Well, I think a lot of that comes from the characters, and there is a real kind of office space type environment where where you you feel the rapport between those characters, and that’s where most of the humor comes from. But it never gets in the way of the story.
00:20:52:59 – 00:21:10:41
Agent Palmer
No. And it’s never, it’s never lit. Literally laugh out loud funny. It’s always chuckle like it on the scale of like, what kind of funny? It’s supposed to be. It’s always the right kind. You’re never, like, gagging. Like it’s never the gag for the laugh.
00:21:10:49 – 00:21:37:42
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. And one thing that I think also makes Star Trek unique among science fiction, especially the writers that we’re talking about, is most of their stuff is very dystopian. Or even if things are technologically advanced, humanity has has gone to a, a dreaded place. And Star Trek is completely says in the future with 300 years in the future and it’s awesome.
00:21:37:42 – 00:21:41:19
Edward O’Hare
And we’ve made it. Well, And well.
00:21:41:34 – 00:22:00:11
Agent Palmer
Well, well, we we’ve made it. Asterisk. Don’t trust the machines, right? Like and like it’s it’s this hilarious to me underpinning of like. I know Star Trek inspired a lot of engineers.
00:22:00:16 – 00:22:01:28
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:22:01:33 – 00:22:23:26
Agent Palmer
And I know that we’re living in those engineers world right now. But like Star Trek is never about trusting the machine. Like, you know, it’s it feels like at every turn that they can make a comment on artificial intelligence. The message is, do not trust this Intel chip.
00:22:23:26 – 00:22:54:29
Edward O’Hare
Is that well, okay. So I think that there’s a difference between artificial intelligence. Yeah. And technology okay. You know, you know, you know, because because you know that they, they use machines constantly. The enterprise is a machine. Yeah. You know, so I, you know, I think yeah, there is some, there is some, you know, there there’s a whole through line of, of artificial intelligence or even just, giving yourself over, you know, to, to an altered consciousness.
00:22:54:34 – 00:23:17:57
Edward O’Hare
That seems to be that, that Roddenberry seems to, to put a negative Davenport I’m talking about episodes like The Side of Paradise. Yeah. And, but but really, what I’m saying is that humanity has made it, you know, things worked out. You human civilization has.
00:23:18:02 – 00:23:18:38
Edward O’Hare
Reached.
00:23:18:38 – 00:23:38:09
Edward O’Hare
A peak. And, you know, the series is going around to other civilizations that are, you know, and, and exploring the same types of issues that are facing, that are facing the world today. But in the future and other planets and helping them through it.
00:23:38:14 – 00:23:50:05
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah. And I, they, they I, I am thankful that and I don’t know if it was Roddenberry as like producer director kind of guy.
00:23:50:10 – 00:23:50:55
Edward O’Hare
00:23:51:00 – 00:24:17:31
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean executive director, but like, I don’t know if it was his direction, but, like, they find themselves on the gangster planet, right? 1930s Chicago, and they find themselves in the Wild West sometimes, or with natives sometimes. And they very much unlike today. And I think I can say media of today, they did not just, well, we don’t have anything for this week.
00:24:17:31 – 00:24:46:27
Agent Palmer
Let’s throw them randomly on another Roman planet like it happens. But there’s always a little bit more plot to it than just let’s take our crew and cast and go to the Old West, or to jolly Old England, or like they, there was always a little bit more to it than that. Yes. And I appreciated that because it meant like they were actually thinking about it and because somebody had to be like, well, we can’t just put them in jolly old.
00:24:46:32 – 00:25:06:50
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, there’s that there’s always a reasoning behind it. There’s always a moral or, or a message behind it. You know, and, and you know, the way I like to think of Star Trek is, is, is it’s exploring the human condition. And I think that at the, at its height, that’s what all the best Star Trek stories do.
00:25:06:55 – 00:25:11:43
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. And I, I mean, I, I pulled up my, my list of like, oh.
00:25:11:46 – 00:25:12:58
Edward O’Hare
We’re getting into the list now.
00:25:13:00 – 00:25:39:04
Agent Palmer
Not quite. I just wanted to say like it’s what’s funny to me is I, I did this list ongoing. Right. So I have a notebook that I use when I write this, I, I, I’m old school when it comes to that. And basically if I really like an episode, I put a star next to it. Basically. And then at the end of the series, I highlighted them all and I just let’s see where I’m at.
00:25:39:04 – 00:26:03:33
Agent Palmer
And it’s for, for, you know, in hindsight, for a guy who loved the series, like there’s only so many favorite, every favorite episode ended up on my list of that post. And it’s like, I guess season one was my favorite. Like, because I have a lot more from season one than two and three, but like the stuff I.
00:26:03:33 – 00:26:13:56
Agent Palmer
But I may like what they did in season two and three just a little bit more. Right? So, I, I think.
00:26:14:01 – 00:26:18:11
Edward O’Hare
You know, I mean, it might have just been that as you were going, your standards were narrowing. You know, it could.
00:26:18:11 – 00:26:34:59
Agent Palmer
Be I mean, I think it’s also, I, I believe and I’m going to list the, the, the, the episodes real quick. I believe they all have amazing writing. I think the writing is top notch throughout for the most part, but I think these episode kind of standalone, it’s.
00:26:35:03 – 00:26:39:57
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, I mean, I’m looking at this, there’s only one question mark I have, which I don’t know if you want me to bring up, but we’ll.
00:26:39:57 – 00:27:05:25
Agent Palmer
I’ll just go through the list real quick. Season one. It’s episode five, The Enemy Within. Episode seven, what our little girl’s made of eight. Mary 11 and 12. The Menagerie parts one and 214. Balance of terror 19. Tomorrow was Yesterday 23. A Taste of Armageddon and 28. The city on the Edge of Forever then season two. It’s episode three, The Changeling.
00:27:05:25 – 00:27:29:30
Agent Palmer
Episode 24 The Ultimate Computer and episode 26 Assignment Earth. And then for season three, it’s episode ten, Plato’s Stepchildren. Episode 11 wink of an eye and episode 20 The Way to Eden. Those are my favorite episodes, basically in the order they were released, right? Like I did. Yeah, I didn’t place them in a favor, but those were the ones that kind of rose to the top for me.
00:27:29:34 – 00:27:37:31
Agent Palmer
What what’s the question? Is it something that’s here’s a here’s what I’m going to jump. Is it what’s missing or what’s included?
00:27:37:36 – 00:27:47:33
Edward O’Hare
Why? Well, you know, I would say all of those, I would think are competent, strong episodes with the exception of Mary Mary’s the ones like, really?
00:27:47:33 – 00:27:49:25
Edward O’Hare
That one?
00:27:49:30 – 00:27:58:22
Agent Palmer
I don’t know. It’s just there’s something I, I think McCoy in that episode kind of shines for me a bit more. Look, I will be honest with you, I it’s.
00:27:58:22 – 00:27:59:45
Edward O’Hare
A really it’s McCoy.
00:27:59:49 – 00:28:14:00
Agent Palmer
I, I don’t okay, so this is where I’m at, right? I finished the original series and I wrote about it. And at the time, I couldn’t pick my favorite, my favorite crew member.
00:28:14:05 – 00:28:14:47
Edward O’Hare
00:28:16:00 – 00:28:29:28
Agent Palmer
Because I liked the crew as an ensemble. Okay. Yeah. And and you go to the animated series, and it’s kind of the same thing. Like, you like the crew as an ensemble. And then I get into the movies.
00:28:29:33 – 00:28:30:36
Edward O’Hare
00:28:30:41 – 00:28:52:23
Agent Palmer
And while I still like the crew as an ensemble, McCoy takes the lead in my heart through as every movie from the motion picture Ron McCoy becomes that I like I McCoy becomes me on screen. Yeah. As the writing of that movie goes on, those movies go on, and I.
00:28:52:28 – 00:28:53:14
Edward O’Hare
00:28:53:19 – 00:29:06:44
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, he’s got good and bad episodes. I think they all have good and bad episodes. I think that’s the point of an ensemble cast. But yeah, I don’t know. I mean, Mary J. I don’t know, it was there. It was in the moment, you know, that’s.
00:29:06:44 – 00:29:08:36
Edward O’Hare
Just.
00:29:08:41 – 00:29:16:09
Edward O’Hare
It just it just didn’t an odd premise and just really like, oh, oh, oh, this is about puberty. Oh, this is weird. This is.
00:29:16:09 – 00:29:18:30
Edward O’Hare
Awkward.
00:29:18:34 – 00:29:19:36
Edward O’Hare
But but at the same.
00:29:19:36 – 00:29:20:53
Agent Palmer
Time, I.
00:29:20:58 – 00:29:21:12
Edward O’Hare
And.
00:29:21:17 – 00:29:23:36
Edward O’Hare
And and some of the makeup in that is just.
00:29:23:36 – 00:29:24:29
Edward O’Hare
Woof, woof.
00:29:24:39 – 00:29:37:22
Agent Palmer
But I will say, let’s be real with some of my stuff, right? Tomorrow was yesterday sitting on the edge of forever. And, Assignment Earth is like, I’m all about Star Trek and like you.
00:29:37:24 – 00:29:38:41
Edward O’Hare
Oh, yeah, it’s all time travel.
00:29:38:41 – 00:29:53:21
Agent Palmer
You would all think. You would think I’d love, like, the movies a little bit more for how often the movies come to modern day. For looking at this objective list of my favorite episodes of the original series.
00:29:53:26 – 00:30:16:31
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, well, you know, I mean, I, you know, I would say sitting on the Edge of Forever is probably objectively the best episode and that that’s the one that’s held most. That’s the one that was written by Harlan Ellison originally. You know, and and to me, like that one part, you know, the strongest moment in the series is when.
00:30:16:36 – 00:30:17:28
Edward O’Hare
00:30:17:33 – 00:30:20:57
Edward O’Hare
Kirk has to turn around and stop McCoy from jumping into the street.
00:30:21:02 – 00:30:21:25
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:30:21:27 – 00:30:27:00
Agent Palmer
No, but at the same time, I look at there are pivotal moments on Assignment Earth.
00:30:27:05 – 00:30:27:52
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:30:27:57 – 00:30:32:51
Agent Palmer
When they’re going back to, like, the 60s Earth.
00:30:32:56 – 00:30:33:20
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:30:33:24 – 00:30:37:49
Edward O’Hare
Which, by the way, was a back that was meant to be a backdoor pilot.
00:30:37:54 – 00:30:38:34
Agent Palmer
Really?
00:30:38:39 – 00:31:06:30
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Yeah, that Gary Gary seven was meant to have his own series called Assignment Earth. And it just it it ended up not getting picked up. I especially enjoyed Terry Gar in that episode. But. Yeah, but yeah, I mean that that’s also, you know, there, there are some of the and also Star Trek. I mean, once you finish the series, if you really want to have fun, there is an ocean of novels that you could go into.
00:31:06:35 – 00:31:28:03
Edward O’Hare
Like, I can remember going into the bookstore when I was a kid and like, Star Trek, like, you know, in the science fiction section at at Walden Books, Star Trek would have like two whole bookcases, that, that that’s how much stuff there was. And there are several Gary Seven novels in there. Okay.
00:31:28:07 – 00:31:58:22
Agent Palmer
I before we get onto the movies. Yeah. Let me just say that. Well, I picked a bunch of favorite quotes. I picked a bunch of favorite quotes. Like, there’s one that literally sticks in my head all the time from that original series. And it’s, it’s something from the hippie episode. And, because I’m going to crack my knuckles and jump for joy.
00:31:58:24 – 00:32:01:12
Agent Palmer
I got a clean bill of health from doctor McCoy.
00:32:01:17 – 00:32:05:54
Edward O’Hare
Oh, boy.
00:32:05:59 – 00:32:19:02
Edward O’Hare
That that third season is rough. I literally when you when you realize was. Well, first off, you start off with Spock’s brain, you’re like, oh, we’re in trouble.
00:32:19:07 – 00:32:43:53
Agent Palmer
Let’s let’s talk about the cinematic universe for a bit of of the OG cast. I, you know, I found the motion picture a little bit wanting, really, but I think that part of that, again, is I just. I didn’t have to wait a decade. Right. I, I just I jumped right in and it’s a bit slower paced.
00:32:43:57 – 00:33:07:06
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Robert Wise tried to film it like it was a musical. You know, and this is the guy who worked on West Side Story and the sound of Music, and, Yeah, yeah. And instead of, instead of trying to feel like Star Wars, he tried to make it feel like 2001. And, I think it’s something that was probably really cool to see in the cinema.
00:33:07:11 – 00:33:14:39
Edward O’Hare
But, by modern, especially my modern TV standards, is, is it’s boring, as in,
00:33:14:44 – 00:33:26:09
Agent Palmer
But but then then we get into the the Genesis trilogy. Yes. Which I, I really loved. I really did. I thought it was wonderful. And it’s.
00:33:26:09 – 00:33:38:06
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, it’s. Yeah, I almost feel like it’s kind of cheating, but I would say my favorite er, era of Trek is the, the, the, the original series movies.
00:33:38:10 – 00:33:40:11
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I.
00:33:40:16 – 00:33:41:01
Edward O’Hare
I, I.
00:33:41:03 – 00:34:00:35
Agent Palmer
Like the middle movie. Like, I think search for Spock is, probably my favorite. And then The Voyage Home is probably my second favorite. And then five, six and two are like, tied at that third level. And then the motion picture.
00:34:00:35 – 00:34:07:13
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah. What’s this? Some scene about ties. You can’t. This is America. This is no ties. Break that tie would.
00:34:07:18 – 00:34:08:36
Agent Palmer
Break that tie. Yeah.
00:34:08:50 – 00:34:10:02
Edward O’Hare
What are you doing here?
00:34:10:07 – 00:34:48:12
Agent Palmer
I guess it would probably be Wrath of Khan because it’s a more cohesive film. The final Frontier, because it is. I think, sadly, it’s trying to do too much. And so it does a lot of things poorly, but it does a lot of things. Right. Like it’s very exciting. And it’s also a comedy like, I don’t know, like I’m sorry, I don’t I there’s a there’s got to be somebody out there in like a film school as a project that is going to recut that film as a straight comedy.
00:34:48:16 – 00:34:59:54
Edward O’Hare
Right? Straight cut. Well, usually it would be the other way around, but there were a lot of behind the scenes production factors that, that that heard Final Frontier saying, undiscovered countries are number five.
00:34:59:54 – 00:35:02:47
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Undiscovered country. I did look so okay.
00:35:02:47 – 00:35:04:42
Edward O’Hare
I get it. I gotta take you to task for this.
00:35:04:49 – 00:35:22:22
Agent Palmer
Well, so you so. Okay, so I watched all the movies with Steph because she had, wanted to either rewatch or watch all the movies. My buddies and Potter came over for Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country.
00:35:22:26 – 00:35:24:25
Edward O’Hare
Which are the two that are directed by Nicholas Meyer.
00:35:24:25 – 00:35:57:29
Agent Palmer
And he he also took me to task, like when when we finished undiscovered Country, because it’s the last one. He asked me about my list and I became, when I didn’t say undiscovered countries, my favorite he a it was in a like now look, I’ve known to potter for like decades and we argue all the time, but I did not expect such a, a turnaround of like, I cannot believe that’s not even in your top two.
00:35:57:34 – 00:36:18:24
Edward O’Hare
Like just I don’t like. And I will say generally, and this isn’t a hard and fast rule, but from my experience, yeah, usually non-fans love Star Trek for casual fans, prefer Star Trek two, and hardcore fans love Star Trek six.
00:36:18:29 – 00:36:21:22
Agent Palmer
I prefer three, so I’m neither of those things.
00:36:21:22 – 00:36:30:08
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, you’re just weird, man. I just. You know, and they’re all. They’re all good. Except for the motion picture. They’re all good.
00:36:30:19 – 00:36:49:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No. Oh, no. No arguments here. And like, I, I and I wrote about this, I watched the director’s cut of the motion picture, which, by the way, doesn’t make it better. Like, I know there’s movies out there where people are like, well, they cut out 20 minutes. That’s important. No, no, no. Well, they they.
00:36:49:42 – 00:37:02:15
Edward O’Hare
They brush up some of the special effects. Yeah. And and it was, it was a lot of it was actually tightening, and doing stuff because, you know, that movie.
00:37:02:20 – 00:37:20:31
Edward O’Hare
You know, a lot of people considered it unfinished because they had to actually splice. They had to do they had to splice in edits into the film prints as they were being shipped out to movie theaters. That that’s how close that movie came under the gun.
00:37:20:31 – 00:37:32:51
Agent Palmer
Look, the only thing I’ll say about the motion picture that I find astounding, is they found Voyager seven.
00:37:32:56 – 00:37:35:42
Edward O’Hare
Which is funny because Voyager three hasn’t been launched yet. I have that.
00:37:35:47 – 00:38:01:03
Agent Palmer
Exact, like, how, like, now I know Voyager one and two had been launched at that point. But we are many, many, many, many, many decades later. And Voyager three again or 4 or 5, like, none of these are even things. There’s not even like a budgetary plan for any of them. And, and how optimistic they were that we were just going to start sending probes all throughout the universe and the galaxy.
00:38:01:08 – 00:38:01:31
Edward O’Hare
00:38:01:35 – 00:38:12:43
Edward O’Hare
And sometimes they gamble. I remember I think it was tomorrow is yesterday. They, they say a date for when man was going to land on the moon. I think they were only a week off.
00:38:12:47 – 00:38:35:59
Agent Palmer
Okay. I mean there’s also the idea that like generally speaking and I again, this is why you and I are having this conversation now because as it stands right now, the original series was very optimistic about our future, regardless of the movies and the animated series and then the the, the OG television series, it doesn’t matter what your favorite is or what your takeaways are like.
00:38:35:59 – 00:38:55:01
Agent Palmer
Generally speaking, it is amazingly optimistic about our future. Yeah, and. All right. I’m watching this in the beginning of 2023, the end of 2022. Oh well, I can use optimism, my friend. I could use all the optimism.
00:38:55:14 – 00:39:04:27
Edward O’Hare
Of course. Of course. You know, and I mean, I’m sure they’ve mentioned this in the history, but you know, between now and then there’s going to be a World War three. You know, but.
00:39:04:38 – 00:39:12:48
Agent Palmer
I’ve heard about, quite a few wars that, well, some that haven’t happened. There was a war in the 90s that didn’t happen. Yeah.
00:39:12:53 – 00:39:22:54
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. And then and then in 20, in the year 2063, after all, Cochrane is going to discover warp drive and will make first contact with the Vulcans. And, you know, it’s all hunky dory from there.
00:39:22:59 – 00:39:34:26
Agent Palmer
I do I do love the my favorite part. I talk to you about this. I think, one of the episodes is like they just start making up names when they’re talking about bad people.
00:39:34:38 – 00:39:45:54
Edward O’Hare
Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, that’s the trend. It’ll it’ll be three, three stages. One is someone from ancient history, one is someone from modern history. And the third is. Is someone made up? Yeah.
00:39:45:59 – 00:39:55:24
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s it’s it’s it’s really kind of funny because, like, it puts them on a pedestal, like, even though it’s a made up name, you’re like, that’s not a good. That’s, that’s not company you keep.
00:39:55:39 – 00:39:59:15
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:39:59:20 – 00:40:00:20
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:40:00:25 – 00:40:12:01
Agent Palmer
Would you, would you say that I should have let things breathe a little bit more like, do you think that, you know, giving two days between each thing?
00:40:12:06 – 00:40:27:48
Edward O’Hare
I mean, I don’t know about that. I don’t know if that that would have made made much of a difference. I, you know, I think it’s just kind of like, what are you trying to get out of it? And to me, what the undiscovered country does, you know, it. It’s really the best of what you want with Star Trek, you know?
00:40:27:48 – 00:40:53:24
Edward O’Hare
And to me, the thing that’s different is throughout most of Star Trek, they’re going to someplace else and fixing and other people’s problems. And and I’m just going for the country. Is is the first time where the crew itself is really faced with its own prejudices and Starfleet, you know, which is meant to be, you know, the height of ethics and morality finds itself conspiring against itself to to keep this Cold War going.
00:40:53:29 – 00:41:23:19
Edward O’Hare
You know, and that’s, that’s really kind of the, you know, the real reflection that goes there and, you know, and this was 1991 as the Cold War was ending, you know, and, to me and, and that that’s why it it’s to me, it’s it’s a real bold choice. I think it carries a lot of the I mean, Star Trek three is your favorite, and it really carries through that storyline of, you know, Kirk.
00:41:23:19 – 00:41:41:35
Edward O’Hare
Kirk lost his son and that baggage is still hanging around him in sex, you know, to the point, you know, to the point where where, you know, Spock, where you know, Spock has to quote the Vulcan proverb, only Nixon could go to China in order to even convince Kirk to let the Klingons aboard.
00:41:41:39 – 00:41:46:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And can we talk about how many.
00:41:46:41 – 00:41:47:01
Edward O’Hare
How many.
00:41:47:01 – 00:42:01:08
Agent Palmer
Proverbs and history things that, writers just not? You should hear it in the original Klingon or, like, as an old an old Klingon, you know, an old Romulan. Like, they’re just taken, like, ancient history.
00:42:01:08 – 00:42:02:13
Edward O’Hare
And, yeah.
00:42:02:18 – 00:42:04:13
Agent Palmer
Sprinkling it throughout the galaxy.
00:42:04:13 – 00:42:29:12
Edward O’Hare
And that that was really knickmeyer going to town. Nick. Nick Nicholas Meyer is is a great writer. Very learned. Also wrote, several Sherlock Holmes novels. Okay. You know, and you actually see that that nod where Spock, you know, talks of an ancient Earth ancestor of his and quote unquote, and is quoting Sherlock Holmes.
00:42:29:16 – 00:42:48:45
Edward O’Hare
And, you know, that’s where all of the Shakespeare and everything comes in. And to give Christopher Plummer general training and all that and all those Shakespearean quotes, half of them, I’m sure Plummer probably added himself. Really, it it gives it a texture and a flavor, to the piece, you know?
00:42:48:45 – 00:43:06:38
Agent Palmer
And yeah, I have to ask this question because I feel like it’s relevant to people listening, especially those that are fans of Trek. There is an overlap that I have ignored in order to finish my journey and my adventures with the original cast.
00:43:06:42 – 00:43:09:05
Edward O’Hare
Yes.
00:43:09:10 – 00:43:19:42
Agent Palmer
Because when when Undiscovered Country hits theaters, I think my math was that what, the the the next generations, like season 3 or 4?
00:43:19:46 – 00:43:20:16
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:43:20:20 – 00:43:24:52
Edward O’Hare
It would be. It was in the fall of 91. So it would have been starting its fifth season.
00:43:24:52 – 00:43:48:09
Agent Palmer
Okay. So I don’t know any of whatever crossover there might be in that series as far as like little nods and winks. Yeah. But I’m gonna ask you just, you know, is it important? Like, like, did I make a mistake or am I going to get less out of the movies because I didn’t see those things?
00:43:48:11 – 00:44:16:58
Edward O’Hare
No, I think it’s cleaner that way. The only real interfere, the only real. And I think this was intentional, that that there really was no acknowledgment, at least from the, the, the again, because they’re set, like, you know, 60 or 70 years ahead, there’s no acknowledgment between the movies. And, and the original series, or the movies don’t acknowledge the next generation.
00:44:17:03 – 00:44:43:43
Edward O’Hare
The only the only way is that, the only way is Michael Dorn. Who’s an actor? On next Gen plays, an ancestor of the character he plays in Next Gen in Star Trek six. He plays. He plays Kirk and McCoy’s lawyer in the courtroom scene. But, you know, so that was that was, you know, a little Easter egg that next gen fans would, you know, would enjoy, but doesn’t really matter to people who haven’t seen next gen.
00:44:43:43 – 00:44:44:25
Edward O’Hare
Okay.
00:44:44:30 – 00:44:49:33
Agent Palmer
I’m, I’m, I’m cautiously optimistic about the rest of.
00:44:49:37 – 00:44:49:57
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:44:50:04 – 00:45:03:41
Edward O’Hare
My journey and also I’m sure other people there is one other Captain Kirk adventure which is in Star Trek Generations. But you need you need to see all of next gen before you see that.
00:45:03:41 – 00:45:05:27
Agent Palmer
Okay. Well, and I will. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:05:27 – 00:45:06:10
Edward O’Hare
So yeah.
00:45:06:10 – 00:45:14:15
Agent Palmer
So I, I again cautiously optimistic about the rest of my year. Like there’s a lot left okay.
00:45:14:17 – 00:45:34:35
Edward O’Hare
Well okay. So right now we’re at the point where I’ve been telling you for the last, for the last few weeks that once you get to next gen, we need to have a discussion, we have a talk, and, we’re going to have that right now. So I hope you recording this. And I just. There’s something you need to understand about 98 track.
00:45:34:35 – 00:46:07:06
Edward O’Hare
And this goes for all the series that are there like 90s track. You know, you know, next gen deep Space Nine, Voyager and, you know, to a certain extent, enterprise as well. I’ll jump into this, but, You need to brace yourself. Okay. And and anyone who knows next gen really well, next gen, you know, and this goes for all those series, but next gen especially, you need to brace yourselves, yourself because, you know, the first.
00:46:07:06 – 00:46:07:36
Agent Palmer
Two.
00:46:07:36 – 00:46:13:52
Edward O’Hare
Seasons are going to be a rough watch. I’m not going to give you any plot spoilers.
00:46:13:52 – 00:46:15:33
Agent Palmer
No, that’s fine, but I guess.
00:46:15:38 – 00:46:23:01
Edward O’Hare
But I just I need I need you to understand that that for most of those first two seasons.
00:46:23:06 – 00:46:23:33
Edward O’Hare
It’s going to.
00:46:23:33 – 00:46:43:53
Edward O’Hare
Kind of suck. And by kind of suck, I mean, there are going to be points where it’s nigh unwatchable and you’re going to and you’re going to wonder, like, why am I doing this? Should I go for it? I’m here to tell you, you gotta dig in to get a dig in, okay? Because there’s going to be there’s going to be shades, there’s going to be glimmers.
00:46:43:57 – 00:46:49:04
Edward O’Hare
As Marty Schottenheimer would say, there’s a gleam.
00:46:49:09 – 00:46:49:54
Edward O’Hare
Okay.
00:46:49:59 – 00:47:01:41
Edward O’Hare
And you want to reach for the gleam. But with all of these shows, the first two seasons, it’s kind of rocky. And it takes a while for them to find themselves. Can I there’s a.
00:47:01:47 – 00:47:16:42
Agent Palmer
So I without spoilers. Right. You have to ask this question. Why like because like and like here’s the thing. Is it is it rough because they’re trying to differentiate themselves from whatever happened? Like what?
00:47:16:46 – 00:47:25:39
Edward O’Hare
Okay. So so what happened was if you remember. Gene Roddenberry stepped away for season three.
00:47:25:44 – 00:47:26:00
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:47:26:00 – 00:47:29:53
Edward O’Hare
And then spent the next decade trying to get a Star Trek movie made.
00:47:29:58 – 00:47:30:56
Edward O’Hare
Yes.
00:47:31:01 – 00:47:45:44
Edward O’Hare
And then, or get Star Trek back on the air. And then finally all those machinations, Star Trek The Motion Picture comes out and it it’s financially successful, but most fans and critics.
00:47:45:44 – 00:47:46:29
Edward O’Hare
Agree.
00:47:46:34 – 00:47:53:31
Edward O’Hare
It’s not great. So then they say to Gene Roddenberry, oh, you’re going to be our executive.
00:47:53:31 – 00:47:55:38
Edward O’Hare
Consultant.
00:47:55:42 – 00:48:20:41
Edward O’Hare
And Harve Bennett is going to be the executive producer. And he produced he produced the Genesis trilogy and Star Trek five, and Leonard Nimoy was the executive producer on Star Trek six. So basically, Roddenberry was pushed aside for, for for all of the sequels and Next Generation. He gets his hands back on the reins, and Next Generation is his show.
00:48:20:46 – 00:48:27:49
Edward O’Hare
And kind of the Roddenberry Doctrine, as they called it.
00:48:27:54 – 00:48:29:15
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:48:29:20 – 00:48:55:05
Edward O’Hare
Kind of got a little warped. And the writers room didn’t really understand how to handle. And some say it was his demand. Some say it was a lawyer of his. But basically it got it into its head that everything is so perfect in the future that you know that you can’t have any internal conflict between any of the crew members.
00:48:55:10 – 00:48:56:15
Edward O’Hare
And so it.
00:48:56:27 – 00:48:59:24
Agent Palmer
Defeats the entire purpose of the OG series, though.
00:48:59:24 – 00:49:07:19
Edward O’Hare
Well, and that and that that’s the thing is, is the conflict. It all has to be external conflict.
00:49:07:24 – 00:49:08:43
Edward O’Hare
Okay.
00:49:08:48 – 00:49:15:39
Edward O’Hare
So they focused a lot on really interesting science fiction stuff, and the characters kind of fall flat.
00:49:15:44 – 00:49:16:03
Edward O’Hare
All right.
00:49:16:12 – 00:49:23:24
Agent Palmer
Hold on, hold on, though. So that explains next gen. But you said that this was the thing for all. So.
00:49:23:24 – 00:49:46:27
Edward O’Hare
Well, is they basically for all of those. The first two seasons are rocky as they try to figure out the cast and figure out what the series wants to be and how this cast is going to function together. Okay. And then season three, they they start pushing more towards character oriented episodes and start pushing more towards character, and it starts to hate it.
00:49:46:32 – 00:49:59:18
Edward O’Hare
And then season four, the show hits its stride, five and six goes strong, and then seven is pretty good. But you could see them start to run out, run out of ideas, and that’s when the show ends.
00:49:59:18 – 00:50:11:59
Agent Palmer
So season three of the OG series, is they knew it was the end. They knew they weren’t getting another yes.
00:50:12:04 – 00:50:19:00
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Yeah. What I’m talking about does not apply to the original series. Okay. This is this is just this is just for all right, next gen and beyond.
00:50:19:01 – 00:50:43:36
Agent Palmer
But so season three, they knew they were going to be done. Yeah. They finished the Genesis trilogy and but they didn’t. They had to know they were doing the Genesis trilogy. Because all throughout the first Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock both end with some kind of semblance of the voyage continues or the the adventure continues.
00:50:43:48 – 00:50:48:08
Edward O’Hare
They they had an idea that there was going to be another movie, okay, that that.
00:50:48:13 – 00:50:55:05
Agent Palmer
The end of, Voyage Home doesn’t have that.
00:50:55:10 – 00:50:55:33
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:50:55:48 – 00:51:17:13
Agent Palmer
And then the end of Final Frontier doesn’t have that. And then the, the dialog at the end of Undiscovered Country puts you in this mindset of like, okay, this is the final voyage of Captain Kirk. And we get we’re all of those other ones just kind of like, hey, we got another film. Hey, we got another film.
00:51:17:21 – 00:51:38:41
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was it was basically, two. They had a feeling, well, two originally just ended with Spock’s funeral and the first test screen audience, came out so sad and so depressed that they thought, oh, we’ve got to give them a glimmer of hope. And that’s when they shot.
00:51:38:43 – 00:51:51:17
Agent Palmer
I got to tell you that I don’t know what was going on in the 80s, but like, they brought they brought Optimus Prime back to. And he died in the theater as well. Like, apparently, like we just didn’t like death in theaters.
00:51:51:22 – 00:52:21:50
Edward O’Hare
Well, the also part of that was a ploy because, Leonard Nimoy had written a book called I Am Not Spock. Oh, and so, the thought on the production staff is that Nimoy doesn’t really like this part. It’s going to be a hassle to get him back. So why don’t we just kill him off? And and maybe that’s how we can convince him to sign on for Star Trek two is we give him this noble death scene.
00:52:22:01 – 00:52:35:11
Edward O’Hare
Okay. And that actually, you know, no one had actually asked Leonard Nimoy if that’s how we felt. But he’s like, all right, fine. You know what? I’ll do that. And then. And then he ends up directing three. Yeah. I.
00:52:35:16 – 00:52:37:49
Agent Palmer
I got to tell you the other piece to all of this.
00:52:37:56 – 00:52:57:34
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, but but to to answer your question, yeah, when they were doing three, they knew they were going to get four, and four, you know, they kind of thought, oh, we’ll give we’ll give Captain Kirk the enterprise. That’ll be a nice sendoff. And then basically four did was the most biggest box office of any of the original movies.
00:52:57:39 – 00:53:16:58
Edward O’Hare
Okay. So that meant we’re going to do five and Shatner got to direct, and then basically for six, they thought five was going to be the end, but but was a little bit of a disappointment. And, and they saw we didn’t want to go out like that. We think we can get one more. And six was kind of like, all right, this is our send off.
00:53:17:03 – 00:53:21:05
Edward O’Hare
It’s the 25th anniversary. This is this is the time to go out.
00:53:21:07 – 00:53:46:50
Agent Palmer
Okay? I. It’s weird because there are moments of the show, as it stands, that I still think the television show I like. I’m surprised you and I are at odds here that I think the television show is the stronger I look. The animated series is my favorite.
00:53:46:50 – 00:53:52:08
Edward O’Hare
I’m not. I’m not saying that the original series isn’t stronger. I’m just saying your face.
00:53:52:08 – 00:53:52:32
Agent Palmer
So.
00:53:52:37 – 00:53:56:26
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Yeah, that. That’s the stuff I find myself going back to more.
00:53:56:27 – 00:54:12:31
Agent Palmer
Just like mine would be the animated series in. Yeah, for right now. Yeah. Right now, I mean, I the think this is a, this is a very I have a very skewed scale. You have three things to compare it to. I got the animated series, the original series in the cinematic series.
00:54:12:31 – 00:54:24:17
Edward O’Hare
That’s it. So yeah. Yeah. But you know, but but also, you know, there’s a whole other world of stuff that I know about that you don’t that I, you know, that I also go back to more than stuff you’ve seen. Okay.
00:54:24:20 – 00:54:29:28
Agent Palmer
So well, I mean, that’s, you know.
00:54:29:33 – 00:54:55:52
Edward O’Hare
But just but just under understand. Yeah. You know, after you watch encounter at Farpoint, the first, next gen, you know, and after you watch a couple of next gen episodes, I’m expecting, I’m expecting a call between us to go, really? And I’m like, just hang in there, okay? I promise you. I promise you. Just hang in there, man.
00:54:55:57 – 00:55:05:56
Edward O’Hare
Dig, dig, dig.
00:55:06:01 – 00:55:33:03
Agent Palmer
So I’m still boldly going, though it is taken a bit to get through six seasons of Star Trek The Next Generation that I’ve watched so far, with one more to go in four movies before, and and I sit down for just another episode like this. The slowdown is not because I didn’t enjoy the show, though. I will admit that as much as binge culture has changed the way we consume media, I personally just can’t sit still enough to watch more than two episodes at a time.
00:55:33:16 – 00:56:02:32
Agent Palmer
Even when I’m enjoying myself, I still need a break. And also, I enjoy reading books and listening to music and podcasts and watching sports, so it’s not like it’s the only thing I have. I don’t only have Star Trek to watch, there are other things. The point is, more is coming. It’ll just take some time. After listening to this conversation and knowing where I am now in my journey, I’m still at this point very happy that I undertook this journey.
00:56:02:32 – 00:56:29:10
Agent Palmer
So I want to ask all of those of you who have made it this far, is there something perhaps like Star Trek was to me on the periphery, that your friends or you or the culture at large seems largely interested in, that you haven’t undertaken or just haven’t taken the opportunity to view? What is it and why haven’t you pressed play on that album, series, movie, or opened the pages of that book?
00:56:29:15 – 00:56:51:33
Agent Palmer
Honestly, not consuming something isn’t really the flex and badge of honor some people believe it to be. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 109. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact myself and my guest, Edward O’Hare, in the show notes.
00:56:51:38 – 00:57:25:47
Agent Palmer
For this episode, Bill Sweeney was a guest associate producer. The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Email can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent Palmer. dot com
00:57:25:51 – 00:57:53:16
Edward O’Hare
Space. The final frontier.
00:57:53:20 – 00:57:57:31
Agent Palmer
All right, Ed, do you have one final question for me?
00:57:57:36 – 00:58:03:24
Edward O’Hare
So we’re recording this, the last day of February.
00:58:03:39 – 00:58:04:17
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:58:04:22 – 00:58:11:30
Edward O’Hare
And I know this is this is meant to come out. This is probably going to be released, towards the end of baseball season.
00:58:11:30 – 00:58:12:32
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:58:12:37 – 00:58:22:41
Edward O’Hare
But we’ve had a week of spring training. We have I would like to know your thoughts and the pitch clock.
00:58:22:46 – 00:58:28:34
Agent Palmer
All right. For the last couple of years, I’ve had season tickets to my minor league affiliate.
00:58:28:39 – 00:58:30:41
Edward O’Hare
Oh. That’s right. So you’ve seen this up front, which.
00:58:30:41 – 00:58:38:15
Agent Palmer
Is triple AA, okay. Which is had the pitch clock for a couple years now. Now I will say.
00:58:38:19 – 00:58:45:20
Agent Palmer
I and this is going to be very weird to see to listen to when this releases.
00:58:45:35 – 00:58:48:45
Edward O’Hare
I know, I know, that’s why I went this extreme term.
00:58:48:45 – 00:58:49:25
Edward O’Hare
00:58:49:30 – 00:58:56:14
Edward O’Hare
And you know, I mean, and just this is just for Sarah, naturally. And Tanya melendez, that’s the these questions for.
00:58:56:18 – 00:59:20:56
Agent Palmer
Oh, I feel sad for I and you too. I feel bad for all the Yankee fans, right? Because like, generally speaking, the Yankees are going to be hit the most and the affected the most by the pitch clock. Because when you guys are in town, it is the longest game of any other team anybody ever plays. But I will say I need to see this in action on a major league stage.
00:59:20:56 – 00:59:42:51
Agent Palmer
And I say that because at the minor league level for the last three years, its enforcement has been murky. Like, you just don’t understand it, to a point where I think there’s going to be some growing pains at the major league level. Are we ready? Like, has it shortened spring training games for the week? We’ve seen it.
00:59:42:51 – 01:00:12:34
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Games are down by like 25 minutes or whatever it is. But you know, are they really going to enforce it? Is the last out of the game going to be decided because somebody couldn’t get, you know, in a, in a real game happened last week. Not not a minor not not a not a spring training game. A real game is like, you know, and I’ve heard arguments about like, oh, baseball will come to its terms and like this will be great for eight innings, but come the ninth inning, let them take their time, let them build the tension.
01:00:12:38 – 01:00:39:15
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I, I, I think that it’s at best by the end of this season, by the time this episode airs, no one will notice it. Okay. Because when do you look at the play clock, which is prevalent in football, and when do you look at the shot clock in basketball? You only look at it when you go, wait a minute, shouldn’t shouldn’t that be done now?
01:00:39:15 – 01:01:06:18
Agent Palmer
Like, shouldn’t that be in, you know, when, when, when it goes from 10 to 9 and it changes from white text to red. Right. Like okay, that’s when you’re going to look at it and you’re going to get used to it and it’s going to take you literally three series. By the time your team is on their third other opponent, it will just kind of fade into the either I’m, I’m more interested in,
01:01:06:23 – 01:01:11:34
Agent Palmer
A couple of the other rules than I am the pitch clock. I think the.
01:01:11:39 – 01:01:13:02
Edward O’Hare
You you were a shifty.
01:01:13:07 – 01:01:40:38
Agent Palmer
No, I wasn’t a shifty. I think, generally speaking, that baseball went away. Did did they not learn anything from Moneyball? Hit the ball to where they aren’t. And you’ll get on base. They’re giving you left field. They’re literally giving you left field. The whole thing. The whole thing. Nobody’s over there. Nobody’s between third and second. Yeah, but I will.
01:01:40:43 – 01:01:42:38
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, but I want to hit. I want to hit a deer.
01:01:42:47 – 01:01:45:54
Agent Palmer
Hit the ball to left field. But.
01:01:45:54 – 01:01:47:31
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, but I want to hit a dinger.
01:01:47:33 – 01:02:07:13
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s I’m more interested in the pitch over in the, in the, in the, the the the step off. I think the fact that I want to know the Baltimore Orioles are running team. We’ve stolen bases for the last ten years. Right. Because we’re not just a get up. We’re not. We haven’t played Earl Weaver baseball since Earl Weaver.
01:02:07:13 – 01:02:32:27
Agent Palmer
Okay? We run the bases. Kansas City runs the bases. Oakland runs the bases. Right. This we know, but you only you can. The pitcher can only throw over the first twice man in an at bat. So does this mean that the Yankees and the Red Sox and the Cubs and the Dodgers are going to start running? That’s what I’m more interested in, because it’s literally a philosophy that your teams aren’t built for.
01:02:32:27 – 01:02:39:13
Edward O’Hare
Maybe, maybe. Or are you going to start seeing pitches thrown faster? See, you don’t have time to decide whether or not to run.
01:02:39:24 – 01:03:08:09
Agent Palmer
I mean, that that could be. Look, all these pitchers are prima donnas. Anyway, as I the quote of the spring training for me so far comes from Tony Kornheiser, who said that, in his office studio, he’s got a signed scorecard from the first game at Camden Yards, two hours and three minutes.
01:03:08:14 – 01:03:09:21
Edward O’Hare
Okay.
01:03:09:26 – 01:03:41:20
Agent Palmer
We didn’t need a pitch clock in 1993 for 2 or 2 or whatever for three hours. I mean, for two hours and three minutes. So I don’t know. We’ll see. We’ll see. I I’m, I also I will say this because I have to since this is so far out in advance, I think that the Orioles will get at least as many wins as they did last year, because we play 30% less games against you.
01:03:41:25 – 01:03:47:16
Agent Palmer
And not playing the Yankees that often. That does wonders for the win column.
01:03:47:21 – 01:03:49:34
Edward O’Hare
Good for you. Yeah, good for you.
01:03:49:39 – 01:03:55:27
Agent Palmer
It’s going to be it’s going to be a one hell of a season.
01:03:55:32 – 01:03:55:50
Edward O’Hare
Hey.
01:03:55:50 – 01:04:00:41
Edward O’Hare
Man, you may make it to fourth place this year. You know, we’ll see.
01:04:00:46 – 01:04:02:18
Agent Palmer
We’re third place last year.
01:04:02:32 – 01:04:06:29
Edward O’Hare
01:04:06:33 – 01:04:08:34
Edward O’Hare
I’m just. Yeah, I’m just trolling. You know.
01:04:08:36 – 01:04:14:14
Agent Palmer
I look, I. If I couldn’t take crap from Yankee fans, I’d have to stop being a baseball fan.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).