Episode 60 features Matt Kiefer who is here to discuss his career as a librarian.
As you’ll soon learn it’s not just the Dewey decimal system and shushing people. It’s a library of things and events plus, growing into being organized, helping with technology, some library myths, and much much more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- What does a librarian do?
- How does one become a librarian?
- A Library of things
- Archives and Reference Collections
- Things to do at the library
- Technology usage at the library
- Different types of librarians
- Community Space vs. Books
- Running events
- Recommendation Engines
- Library Myths
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Find a library near you on worldcat.org/libraries
Create your own library at LibraryAnything.com
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:24:50
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. Crichton’s next is a Ted talk with a novel preamble. Somewhere you feel free plants appreciation for Tom Petty and Wildflowers album. And I’m still amazed that Evelyn and I had such similar stories and experiences getting to the producer title, because the variables are mind numbing. This is the Palmer Files episode 60 featuring Matt Kiefer, who was here to discuss his career as a librarian.
00:00:25:03 – 00:01:11:18
Agent Palmer
As you’ll soon learn, it’s not just the Dewey Decimal System and shushing people. It’s a library of things and events, plus growing into being organized, helping with technology, some library myths, and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:11:23 – 00:01:34:30
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 60th episode is Matt Kiefer. Matt is a librarian in Maryland, and he’s here because outside of a librarian helping me check out books or looking for references, I’ve never really talked to a librarian, and definitely not about why and how they became a librarian.
00:01:34:35 – 00:02:00:16
Agent Palmer
That is why Matt is here. As you’ll soon find out, he’s not the prototypical shushing librarian. But those do exist. What you’re about to hear is Matt’s librarian origin story, as well as what his job entails. You’ll hear about the community aspect of libraries, and learn that Matt works at a library of things, not just physical media like books, DVDs, and CDs.
00:02:00:21 – 00:02:26:57
Agent Palmer
We also discuss recommendation engines being extroverted introverts and dispel a few library myths. For example, the library is not necessarily a quiet space. Before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer. My guest, Matt at Psionic M that’s CEO on ICM and this show at the Palmer Files.
00:02:27:01 – 00:02:58:01
Agent Palmer
When matched not at work. You can watch him play video games on Twitch.tv slash psionic monkey. Where he is a variety streamer playing whatever currently strikes his fancy. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, maybe this podcast is a quiet space.
00:02:58:06 – 00:03:04:36
Agent Palmer
Matt, you are a librarian, so do you just check out and check in books?
00:03:04:41 – 00:03:25:29
Matt Kiefer
A little more involved than that? With my line of work, we have a lot of technology instruction. Basically, I help Mr. McGillicuddy putter in and get on a computer and, Google her being so she can get to her Facebooks and, go from there. But,
00:03:25:33 – 00:03:55:27
Agent Palmer
Hold on. There are books in your library, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. I mean, because I’m going to take a wild stab that I’m older than you, but I remember when the we first got some of those newfangled screen and computers in the library when I was in, like, middle or high school, and it it only changed the world for those of us who knew a world beyond AOL.
00:03:55:32 – 00:04:24:11
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. I gotta tell you. I mean, the thing about that world expanding is, you know, you and I hear a dime a dozen tale of people who been exposed to identity theft, scams. You know, throw your money into the sinkhole and you’ll get, you know, a special Squid Game. Token, that, you know, has absolutely no monetary value except for what we say it is.
00:04:24:11 – 00:04:48:24
Matt Kiefer
And then. Oh, giggle, giggle. All your money was stolen, and this poor guy in a library has to look at you sideways, but keep that customer service smile on. Molly tells you I hate to say, but you got screwed. You have to find. You have to find that right balance of politely saying you’re screwed without actually saying you’ve been screwed over.
00:04:48:29 – 00:04:55:03
Agent Palmer
Now, I mean, so what kind of library do you work at? Like community school really touched, but, What?
00:04:55:03 – 00:05:21:29
Matt Kiefer
So I work in one of the 19 branches for my, public library system, in Maryland, and it’s basically public community library. My library services, the larger portion of the county’s population. Okay. In the before times, we would have, on average, 12, 1300 people come through the door each day, which is a lot. Okay.
00:05:21:34 – 00:05:28:46
Agent Palmer
And and when you say before times, are you talking before the internet or before the, world happened.
00:05:28:51 – 00:05:50:46
Matt Kiefer
Before before Covid? Okay. All right. Before the pandemic and, we’ll say March of last year, we were averaging about 12, 13, 1400. If we had a really big programing day, for storytimes, we would have you would have anywhere between 12 to 1400 people come through the door. And that’s pick any day of the week. And that’s what it was.
00:05:50:46 – 00:06:28:18
Agent Palmer
So I have to stop you because I should be and I look, I’m a very big proponent of reading, as has been like, I guess a, a submission of this podcast of the last few episodes. But one of the things that I don’t do is I don’t frequent my own public library. I, I, I buy my books, and I, I, I know that I should support my local library, but I want to support the authors, and I’m I guess I’m torn in between there.
00:06:28:22 – 00:06:37:28
Agent Palmer
But 1300 people in a world where there’s internet, does seem like a lot to me.
00:06:37:33 – 00:07:02:37
Matt Kiefer
It’s, to give a point of comparison, the branch that I work at, if it was a library system unto its own, would have been the sixth largest in the state of Maryland. Okay. So so our sister branch, would have been the depending on the, depending on the year, because some years we do better circulation and people count.
00:07:02:41 – 00:07:22:53
Matt Kiefer
People can be number of people come through the doors who come to programs and whatnot. They do a little better. So we’ll say the sixth and seventh place spots alternate between the two of us. Okay. And then my library system is probably about third largest, the one that’s in the state in the in the state of Baltimore.
00:07:22:55 – 00:07:44:17
Matt Kiefer
Listen to me. The city of Baltimore. Yeah, there we go. Is probably one of the largest operating, library systems, but they’re also the State Library resource center. So everybody in their grandmother goes there to, take a look at any of the archive materials that they have. The reference collection is enormous. They’re, special collections.
00:07:44:17 – 00:07:56:33
Matt Kiefer
It’s just mind boggling for measure for, as a point of comparison, not in square footage for the amount of shelving that they have, but square mileage. Okay. Which is yeah. Yikes. I mean, my.
00:07:56:33 – 00:08:00:00
Agent Palmer
My house feels like I’m getting there.
00:08:00:05 – 00:08:07:18
Matt Kiefer
Right? Yeah. When you collect enough stuff and you just like, oh my, oh my God, it’s it’s everywhere.
00:08:07:27 – 00:08:19:43
Agent Palmer
I got a new bookshelf this summer. It’s, you know, I didn’t have a shelf before. I got a new shelf full. Okay.
00:08:19:43 – 00:08:22:22
Matt Kiefer
So put it all on there. Yeah.
00:08:22:26 – 00:08:42:29
Agent Palmer
You know, I part of it’s cleaning, too, like, the thing that I’m sure all librarians hate, I’m going to make an assumption here is like putting a book sideways on the shelf because, like, it’s got to squeeze in there somewhere. So I, I undid all of that. And that’s kind of how I ended up filling up a bookshelf.
00:08:42:29 – 00:08:52:41
Agent Palmer
But now all of my books are upright and, you know, not in order. Let’s not go crazy. I don’t need to Dewey Decimal my own house.
00:08:52:46 – 00:08:59:31
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. If you know where it is, then that’s. That’s fine. Yeah. I mean, hopefully, maybe. Yeah.
00:08:59:36 – 00:09:25:39
Agent Palmer
There are times when I’m like, where is this? What? Where it’s, I, I only read one book at a time, so, as long as I know where that book is. But I will tell you, the moment that my, my house feels like a library, the most is when I’m in between books, when I just finish one and I just start wandering around my house because I don’t have a dedicated library.
00:09:25:44 – 00:09:43:26
Agent Palmer
So it’s okay. Check the bookshelf in my office. The bookshelf in the living room? In the bedroom. I don’t know what I want to read today. Just wander around my house aimlessly. Like if you were to Big Brother me, you’d be like, he does live in this house, right? Like, what is he doing?
00:09:43:30 – 00:09:45:21
Matt Kiefer
What’s he up to?
00:09:45:26 – 00:09:50:02
Agent Palmer
I could use a librarian for my own house. Yeah. You got any tips?
00:09:50:02 – 00:10:08:43
Matt Kiefer
Well, what I will say is, is that most of my work. Besides I call it instruction. And I don’t want to. I don’t want to delve too much into the library world, speak or anything about it. But a lot of what I do is instructional in nature. I’m usually the ones working with, like I alluded to before.
00:10:08:48 – 00:10:13:47
Matt Kiefer
That miss McGillicuddy, bringing her Google to get to the Facebook or what have you.
00:10:13:48 – 00:10:26:28
Agent Palmer
Now, how crazy has that been like? Because obviously you’ve been doing this for a little bit. You weren’t doing that. It’s not like you started last week. So do you understand? The old people speak when they’re trying to do the tech.
00:10:26:33 – 00:10:53:19
Matt Kiefer
It’s it’s frightening how much I understand them now. It’s, and she’s she is not going to appreciate me saying this in a podcast, but I have to say that I’ve learned to translate a lot of, that kind of language from my mother because it’s it’s it’ll be like she’ll call me and say, all, all my pictures are gone.
00:10:53:24 – 00:10:57:55
Matt Kiefer
Well, okay. You mean the pictures folder? No. All the pictures that are on my desktop.
00:10:57:55 – 00:10:59:03
Agent Palmer
So the icons.
00:10:59:07 – 00:11:00:30
Matt Kiefer
The icons. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:00:32 – 00:11:15:35
Agent Palmer
No, I mean, look, I’m not going to call out my own mother necessarily, but my, my own mother, I’ve been schooling her on some of the terms over the last 20 years. Right. Yeah, I feel. Yeah.
00:11:15:40 – 00:11:40:06
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. She has gotten actually a lot better. I will say that, now that I have, my niece was probably about five, maybe six years old. And I get this frantic call as I’m driving into work from my mother. All my pictures are gone. I don’t know what she did. There’s these weird tiles I can’t get to my email.
00:11:40:11 – 00:12:00:31
Matt Kiefer
She didn’t say she couldn’t bring her email. Thank Christ. But she she, she she’s in, like, a near state of panic. And my, my dad is overseas. This is about two years ago. At this point, he’s overseas. It’s an expensive phone call to find out that, you know, she can access her email or do anything.
00:12:00:35 – 00:12:21:27
Matt Kiefer
So what my niece had done, when I pulled off to the side and it’s like, okay, mom, hold on. What happened? What does it look like? And you say all the pictures keep flipping over. I was like, okay. She said it to tile mode or tablet mode or whatever. Okay. Yeah. In, Windows 10 I’m like, all right.
00:12:21:27 – 00:12:52:23
Matt Kiefer
So I want you to look for this icon in the bottom, right. You know that you know where the clock is. That’s work from there. So we found the icon. I got it to change out of tablet mode, which, don’t get me wrong, if for folks who can do this, I have infinite level of respect for people who work customer support lines for Dell, for Hewlett-Packard, whatever you want to pick, because it has got to be rough trying to talk to people like my mother in a near fit of panic.
00:12:52:23 – 00:12:57:46
Matt Kiefer
Yeah, to tell them, here’s how you get it. Tablet mode because your grandchild set it to that.
00:12:57:46 – 00:13:31:33
Agent Palmer
And I think a very big portion of it is getting the person to calm down, like, I, I was, at one point in my career, I was a hybrid marketing IT person for a very small office. And look, I’m I’m. You don’t want me to be your IT person because I, I especially in a hybrid model where I’ve got my own stuff to do because you’re calling me when something’s already messed up and you have stuff to do and you’re not happy and I’m not happy.
00:13:31:33 – 00:13:56:00
Agent Palmer
And what did you do? I didn’t do anything. No. What did you do? No, it just it just it just did this. Okay. All right. Let move aside. Let me, you know, whatever. But I do have to ask. We’ve spent the last few minutes and a good portion of this early on talking about technology. And you work at a library.
00:13:56:11 – 00:14:15:51
Agent Palmer
Shouldn’t we have just been, like, there are still books in the library like to do? People of the 1300 that you mentioned in the Before Times, are most of them coming for the access to technology or are most like, is there a can you give me a percentage of how many people are actually coming for books?
00:14:15:56 – 00:14:38:27
Matt Kiefer
Sure. I would say that the lion’s share and I would put that at about 70 to 80%. Yep. Are coming for library collections, and I use that term very broadly. We’re talking books and CDs, the usual stuff you would find. Okay. The DVDs, we are a library system that loans out what we call a library of things.
00:14:38:27 – 00:15:01:37
Matt Kiefer
We lend out Chromebooks, for example, and mobile hotspots for internet access. But on top of that, we lend out telescopes. We lend out science kits, book club kits, even fishing rods. Those that I never honestly would have thought to do that. And now, if I was ever posed with the chance to go fishing, I could borrow a fishing rod from the library.
00:15:01:42 – 00:15:27:45
Matt Kiefer
In terms of technology use, it’s a it’s a tough thing to answer because speaking specifically about mine, the 80% physical media check out stuff holds true. Okay. However, if you went 20 30 minutes anywhere along the Beltway, east or west in my area, you’re going to start ending up in branches where the technology usage is significantly higher and a lot of it is driven by, everything is increasing.
00:15:27:55 – 00:15:53:04
Matt Kiefer
Well, it’s everything’s increasingly online. Everything from applying for government benefits, applying for jobs, everything like that is connected to some web portal. Yeah. And some of them have smartphones. That is also been the sole experience that they have with any computing at all, is they’re not native to a mouse and keyboard like you and I are. Okay.
00:15:53:04 – 00:15:56:24
Matt Kiefer
So watching them go through that thing, finger.
00:15:56:35 – 00:15:57:57
Agent Palmer
Finger typing, finger.
00:15:57:57 – 00:16:24:17
Matt Kiefer
Typing, if we’re lucky, if it’s not otherwise just straight up fist mashing it to the keyboard and hoping for what’s best. Coming up, it’s. Yeah, I mean, so in terms of like classic library usage, I see a lot of classic library usage, but I’m also the technology fixer upper guy. Okay, with our downloadable ebooks, with our downloadable video.
00:16:24:21 – 00:16:31:12
Matt Kiefer
There’s there’s just so many damn platforms out there that we support that. It’s it’s horrifying.
00:16:31:17 – 00:16:37:58
Agent Palmer
Now, did you I mean, two questions and I usually ask them separately, but I’m going to ask them together.
00:16:38:07 – 00:16:38:25
Matt Kiefer
Okay.
00:16:38:36 – 00:16:42:32
Agent Palmer
Did did you want to be a librarian and.
00:16:42:37 – 00:16:43:27
Matt Kiefer
Did.
00:16:43:32 – 00:16:48:13
Agent Palmer
Do you go to school for that or do you just happen to be a librarian?
00:16:48:20 – 00:17:17:01
Matt Kiefer
So in the state of Maryland, I’m going to answer the second question first. Sure. And the state of Maryland, you don’t have to go to school to be a librarian. It doesn’t hurt. Okay. Usually when I was applying for librarian positions back then, it was a positive thing to either be in a master of library Science program or to already have the degree, because the alternative is if you’re promoted to a librarian, you have to go through the Library Associates Training Institute.
00:17:17:06 – 00:17:43:56
Matt Kiefer
It’s basically, and I don’t say this as a derogatory term, it’s like a knight school for librarianship. It’s a very compressed curriculum. To get you through the basics of reference work readers advisory, where you recommend materials for people to check out and read, basics of technology instruction, library program planning, and so on. And then reason. A lot of library systems moved away from that is that it is a pay for process to go through you.
00:17:44:01 – 00:17:53:19
Matt Kiefer
If you have an applicant that you have to put through to, you’re putting out several thousand dollars, for them to be certified with the state that they can be a librarian.
00:17:53:19 – 00:17:57:29
Agent Palmer
And hoping that they stay to keep their investment. Okay. Yeah.
00:17:57:34 – 00:18:07:36
Matt Kiefer
Yeah, 100% correct. It’s, and more often than not, they do stay because they see that the investment usually is pretty well paid off.
00:18:07:36 – 00:18:12:47
Agent Palmer
Now, do you get to forego that if you’ve got the degree or is that. Yes. Okay.
00:18:13:02 – 00:18:39:21
Matt Kiefer
All right. Yep. So if you have an MLS degree, a master’s in library science degree, you don’t have to go to any of the elite stuff. You are still subject to renewing your certification with the state. What’s nice about having an Mlis degree versus going through the latte? The Library Associates program is that degree is a little bit more broadly applicable to other library fields.
00:18:39:33 – 00:18:59:46
Matt Kiefer
It’s not limited to just, say, public librarianship. You could do academic higher education librarianship. You could be a school media specialist for elementary, middle and high schools. Okay. And you know, it’s just it it reaches the wheels a little bit. So you have more options for that degree.
00:18:59:51 – 00:19:01:11
Agent Palmer
Do you have that degree.
00:19:01:20 – 00:19:06:28
Matt Kiefer
Or I do okay I do okay. I got my degree in 2013.
00:19:06:28 – 00:19:12:26
Agent Palmer
So you and it’s little master Masters of literary sciences.
00:19:12:31 – 00:19:14:25
Matt Kiefer
Library science, library sciences.
00:19:14:30 – 00:19:18:06
Agent Palmer
I’m surprised it’s not arts, but that’s a whole.
00:19:18:11 – 00:19:19:31
Matt Kiefer
Yeah, it’s,
00:19:19:36 – 00:19:40:29
Agent Palmer
It’s a small distinction, I will tell you. Like, and this is, like, another soapbox for another time. Maybe. But when you go through what is, of sciences and what is of arts, there are times when I wonder who was drunk at the wheel, when they were deciding what was sciences and what was.
00:19:40:29 – 00:19:41:32
Matt Kiefer
All the art.
00:19:41:37 – 00:19:52:00
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But obviously so. So you went to school for this? And you are this. Did you always want to be this?
00:19:52:05 – 00:20:01:52
Matt Kiefer
So turning on the Wayback Machine, a little tiny biography about myself. I started working for the public library system when I was a sophomore in high school.
00:20:01:57 – 00:20:03:43
Agent Palmer
Okay. First job.
00:20:03:48 – 00:20:04:17
Matt Kiefer
First job.
00:20:04:18 – 00:20:04:44
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:20:04:44 – 00:20:11:16
Matt Kiefer
First job. I had a few other side jobs here or there, but the main one was the library system.
00:20:11:16 – 00:20:14:21
Agent Palmer
And is this the same library you’re still at?
00:20:14:26 – 00:20:18:47
Matt Kiefer
When I started part time in high school, it was a different branch of the same libraries.
00:20:18:47 – 00:20:21:13
Agent Palmer
Okay, okay. All right.
00:20:21:18 – 00:20:37:20
Matt Kiefer
And I started that job is basically it was a form of penance, because my mother was beyond tired of paying my overdue fees. She was beyond tired of yours. I broke a lot of things as a kid. I just, I I’m.
00:20:37:20 – 00:20:59:33
Agent Palmer
I’m I’m so confused. First of all, are all the overdue young Matt are all the overdue, fees? Are they all books or. You know, I mean, back then, you know, you still could get, like, CDs and cassettes and all that stuff. So is it all books?
00:20:59:38 – 00:21:08:07
Matt Kiefer
It’s. It was all books back. Okay. All right. And it and it’s just because I, I’m not a tidy person at all.
00:21:08:12 – 00:21:27:24
Agent Palmer
Some of us grow into it. Like, I’ll gladly admit that you and I probably had the same room in middle and high school. Now I can keep a house organized, but I’m. I’m almost 40. I am I am double the age from my optimal mess, so it took me a while to grow into it.
00:21:27:28 – 00:21:27:46
Matt Kiefer
Yeah.
00:21:27:57 – 00:21:31:00
Agent Palmer
So there’s still hope for you in the future, is all I’m saying.
00:21:31:05 – 00:21:47:22
Matt Kiefer
I’m going to cling to that like a piece of flotsam in the middle of the ocean, because God help me, I need that to be true. But yeah, I mean, I was losing books all the time. I would find them six months later after they’d been paid for. My mother is a saint for a lot of reasons.
00:21:47:22 – 00:21:52:18
Matt Kiefer
One of them is that she didn’t ever kill me for the amount of money I caused her. You know.
00:21:52:23 – 00:21:57:28
Agent Palmer
Books, though, right? It’s not like. It’s not like it’s a devil’s music or, you know, it could be.
00:21:57:36 – 00:22:16:59
Matt Kiefer
Yeah, it’s not VHS tapes from the local video store. It’s not. Video games returned late. Yeah. She made very sure that my library card was not the kind of library card that could check out, VHS tapes back then. Okay. It was just basically strictly books. Strictly CDs, because they had the same fine system of it was like $0.20 a day.
00:22:17:12 – 00:22:33:35
Matt Kiefer
Okay. I think, all right. So yeah, so when I was pretty close to being able to work in, just get like a work permit, she just sort of handed me this application, said here, go forth, go forth and apply.
00:22:33:35 – 00:22:37:48
Agent Palmer
And the library’s like, we can’t take you. We need all the money from the fees.
00:22:37:52 – 00:23:02:22
Matt Kiefer
Right? It’s like, I, I could have built a wing on the branch that was very close to where I live. It’s a tiny, tiny branch, built and built out of a school house, yada yada. It very small. Okay. So yeah, I had that job part time. I was what was called a circulation assistant. Basically it was the shelving of library materials and checking out library materials.
00:23:02:23 – 00:23:28:52
Matt Kiefer
Okay. And I held that job through graduating college. So that was six years. Yep. Okay. Yeah. A start in 2000. Graduated in 2007. So seven years, we’ll just. Sure. Yeah. And then I got a full time job, with the library system still within the circulation department. And, hey, back in 2007, little did we know. You know, you took and you kept the job.
00:23:28:53 – 00:23:35:40
Matt Kiefer
You got. Yes. A, what, 12 months later, the economy imploded for everyone else but the very rich.
00:23:35:45 – 00:23:38:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah, pretty much pretty much.
00:23:38:07 – 00:23:44:48
Matt Kiefer
So you stuck with it because, you know, back then it’s either that or you just wait in the middle of it all and. No thanks.
00:23:44:48 – 00:24:01:38
Agent Palmer
I understand taking the job, because it’s there and it’s something you’ve been doing and you’ve been there for seven years and you’ve probably done a little bit more, you’ve probably done a few more of those, quote unquote job description, other, you know, other duties as a sign up.
00:24:01:38 – 00:24:02:38
Matt Kiefer
To duties as assigned.
00:24:02:38 – 00:24:20:23
Agent Palmer
So, you take it because it’s there. But did you enjoy it like, was it like, oh, okay. This is a I mean, I’m we’re going back and forth I get that. Was it a there’s a career in this or I’m just going to take this for now. Did you really enjoy it?
00:24:20:28 – 00:24:44:44
Matt Kiefer
I would say that I enjoyed it enough that I wanted to move up and become a librarian. Okay? Which, as I alluded to before, there’s one way or the other you have to go through some form of study. It’s either you interview and get the job and or put through the library associate training program, or you go through and get an MLS degree and super great.
00:24:44:59 – 00:25:16:59
Matt Kiefer
Throw him at a branch. He’s he’s got the the library science degree. You know he he he wrote the checks for for this degree. He’s probably okay. And you know well what what what chance it. Yeah sure. So I think it’s like a lot of people feel about careers and I think for your, our age cohort especially, we’re, we’re kind of at a reflection point with a lot of what we want work and a career to be.
00:25:17:03 – 00:25:50:44
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. Going forward. Like right now we are in, a non-trivial amount of upheaval. There’s a lot of talk about, you know, repositioning the library to be more of a community space and perhaps de-emphasizing, having a diverse collection in favor of what they just call spaces, more seating areas, more tables and whatnot for you to check out, like library laptops to, like for jobs or whatnot.
00:25:50:53 – 00:26:12:49
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. And try to move away from a more static set up on the floors and try to be a little bit more flexible. Explore how to change the spaces to change with your community. Yeah, and a lot of that sounds really good on paper, but everything like that has growing pains with it. Change and change always has growing pains with it.
00:26:12:49 – 00:26:49:23
Matt Kiefer
It’s wouldn’t be change if it wasn’t, and right now what they’re running up against is and this is not just my library system, but just libraries in general. It’s it’s meeting the interests and needs of an older but still significantly taxpaying part of the population that really just wants that latest James Patterson book. And then the needs of like the younger set or anybody really that, you know, in order to participate in society, you have to get a driver’s license.
00:26:49:23 – 00:26:58:44
Matt Kiefer
But the only way you can do that these days is booking appointments online. Okay. You get your tax forms. You have to do it online to apply for Social Security, Medicare, apply online.
00:26:58:44 – 00:27:24:34
Agent Palmer
See to me. Right. I understand the dilemma. But I also think that, look, maybe it’s because we romanticize the book and it’s there’s there’s a part of me that wants to say, like, well, I mean, that wants to, that will always say, there’s nothing like reading a physical book like they’re nothing. I’ve read books on Kindle.
00:27:24:34 – 00:27:36:09
Agent Palmer
I don’t like it. I’ll do it. I don’t like it. Not for me. In that regard, I am a 72 year old man. I’m not waiting for the next Patterson, but, you know,
00:27:36:14 – 00:27:37:00
Matt Kiefer
But I take what you mean.
00:27:37:00 – 00:28:00:13
Agent Palmer
Although I can tell you, if those people could just wait six months, every book sale I’ve ever been to has 50 copies of the last Patterson. So it’s there for probably whatever. Anyway, I understand the space issue. I actually came across,
00:28:00:17 – 00:28:00:44
Matt Kiefer
I don’t know if.
00:28:00:50 – 00:28:24:45
Agent Palmer
I think it was a podcast the other day that was talking about a library to go somewhere in the Carolinas where they, you know, bought a van or they got a thing and they take the library out to more rural places that don’t have that kind of stuff. And of course, that’s a solution for other areas, not your area necessarily, but that’s a solution for other areas where it’s the physical books that are the problem.
00:28:24:50 – 00:28:50:50
Agent Palmer
And those people probably still have a connectivity issue. But those spaces, one of the things that gets me is that those spaces exist elsewhere, like, I think one of the things that’s the disconnect for the taxpaying public is that we are paying for this library. Let’s put it to our use as opposed to we’ve got this other space that we’re not that’s not being used that may not be ours.
00:28:50:55 – 00:29:26:56
Agent Palmer
And let’s, let’s you do do the program there and keep the archives together. And there’s this disconnect because, well, it’s our library. Like, do you I like, I do AC, I mean, all that aside, I do have to ask, though I do know that there are those unsavory few who go up to the police and who go up to the government officials and the policemen and or anybody who might be paid by the government whether they are not, and says, you work for me because I pay my taxes.
00:29:27:01 – 00:29:29:33
Agent Palmer
Do you hear that? Even at the library.
00:29:29:34 – 00:29:55:37
Matt Kiefer
Knock on wood, the only time I okay, I got to do it because it’s the only time I ever really have people to talk to me like that is when they’ve already crossed the line. And I have to ask them to leave. Okay. And it’s usually for behavior. I’m a fairly go along, get along type of guy. I can live with you being on your phone if it’s not otherwise violating library rules.
00:29:55:37 – 00:30:06:46
Matt Kiefer
If you’re not swearing up a storm, if you’re not talking, you know, extremely vulgar things or whatnot. Yeah, you’re ordering a sandwich and you’re kind of loud about it. Is it annoying? Yes. But it’s.
00:30:06:46 – 00:30:10:22
Agent Palmer
Going to go away in a couple minutes. How long does it take to order a sandwich?
00:30:10:27 – 00:30:14:46
Matt Kiefer
You’d be amazed. It would be absolutely amazed sometimes where it’s.
00:30:14:46 – 00:30:28:21
Agent Palmer
Just like, wait, hold on. So you’re not the prototypical, like, library or I mean, like, I guess for a little joke, when you’re taking your MLS, do they teach you how to properly?
00:30:28:26 – 00:30:47:49
Matt Kiefer
They didn’t it did not teach me how to shush people properly. And it’s so funny because, you know, if my husband was here, he would, he would have a great time with this. Is that when I’m at work, I am I am an extroverted introvert. It’s the fairest way to put it. Is there, you know? Yeah.
00:30:47:51 – 00:30:51:35
Matt Kiefer
I’m. I’m performing. I’m animated. On.
00:30:51:40 – 00:30:54:27
Agent Palmer
This. I’m an extroverted introvert.
00:30:54:41 – 00:31:14:55
Matt Kiefer
Yeah, exactly. It’s like, you know, I’m. I’m engaging, you know, I’m I’m happy to have a conversation with almost anybody about anything that’s pretty close to library related. But then as soon as, like, I would get home and we have to go to this party silent as a stone and it. Right. It drove my husband crazy. So he’s.
00:31:14:55 – 00:31:18:17
Agent Palmer
Seen you at work like he’s seen you in action.
00:31:18:22 – 00:31:18:54
Matt Kiefer
A couple times?
00:31:18:54 – 00:31:21:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Okay.
00:31:21:31 – 00:31:46:27
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. Usually he always manages to come in right when everything else is practically on fire. So it’s like. It’s like, oh, look, here’s me and I’m harried and hassled. Why are you here? But yeah, don’t get me wrong, there’s still a couple of the the central casting shushing librarians out there. I work with a handful of them myself.
00:31:46:32 – 00:32:00:34
Matt Kiefer
They don’t like me. Because I am not a shushing librarian. I’m more like, I save my confrontational energies for the really gnarly stuff.
00:32:00:34 – 00:32:01:05
Agent Palmer
Okay, so.
00:32:01:06 – 00:32:02:25
Matt Kiefer
Like, a better phrasing, you know, like.
00:32:02:25 – 00:32:08:31
Agent Palmer
The the the should be trending on Twitter if we took a video kind of moments.
00:32:08:36 – 00:32:27:41
Matt Kiefer
Well, no, not even so much that. But if there’s a guy and I hate to say it like this because it makes it sound like this happens all the time, it really doesn’t. If I have to go talk to the guy looking at porn on the computer, like, that’s where my energy is going to go. I don’t give a damn about a person on their phone in the magazine area ordering a sandwich.
00:32:27:41 – 00:32:43:25
Matt Kiefer
I really don’t, I’m sorry. Yeah, because one has a more negative impact on the other. Is it annoying? Yes. That someone’s on their phone. This guy is looking at porn and one’s own relationship with pornography notwithstanding, it’s not permitted under library.
00:32:43:25 – 00:32:46:04
Agent Palmer
Rules and it’s not really a public thing.
00:32:46:09 – 00:32:55:59
Matt Kiefer
It’s not really a public, it’s not a public thing. And I hate to say it, but if if it starts with that, there’s a few other branches that that can go down and none of it’s good.
00:32:55:59 – 00:32:58:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, no.
00:32:58:15 – 00:33:05:54
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. So I’m already making this podcast really flavorful night. Well, it’s talking about it’s well, so.
00:33:05:59 – 00:33:18:43
Agent Palmer
So all right, let me, let me diverge then and, and say you were a reader. Obviously all these fees now you’re a librarian. And so you’re reading all the time now.
00:33:18:45 – 00:33:19:24
Matt Kiefer
Nope.
00:33:19:28 – 00:33:41:01
Agent Palmer
So you’re watching movies all the time now. Like more accurate. Yes. Like what? Okay. So what’s the perk now? I mean, if if originally it was to save money and now you’re all around the books that you’re, you know, spending money on, what’s the perk? I mean, and I say perk, I know you get paid. I know it’s your job, but like, there’s got to be a perk for you now.
00:33:41:01 – 00:34:06:10
Matt Kiefer
So there’s there’s a couple one of them is, I know when, for example, new video games will be added to the catalog and I can be one of the first to reserve them. All right. So I save that. What is nice is for books and audiobooks, depending on how the publisher feels about, publishing these things early, we get what are called Arcs or advance reader copies of material.
00:34:06:17 – 00:34:32:09
Matt Kiefer
So for five months in advance of publication, there’s a pretty rough draft version of a book that’s been put out there that I can download. Essentially, I can download it to a Kindle or two on my iPad, because they don’t actually do as many physical copies of these anymore. And they definitely don’t these days, because printing them, it stays stuck overseas in some shipping port in China, or.
00:34:32:09 – 00:34:33:38
Agent Palmer
It would end up on eBay.
00:34:33:42 – 00:35:00:12
Matt Kiefer
Would end up on eBay. Yeah. So getting to read that stuff, well in advance of everyone else is nice. I’ve done that for a couple light performers I follow, like I’m a big follower of RuPaul’s Drag Race, so when, the drag queens Trixie Mattel and Katya did a book on modern womanhood, and I use that with massive sarcasm quotes, I, you know, I had to read it because they’re just like.
00:35:00:12 – 00:35:05:02
Agent Palmer
They’re still reading. It’s not you just it’s just not your go to anymore.
00:35:05:02 – 00:35:06:38
Matt Kiefer
It’s not as much now. Okay.
00:35:06:42 – 00:35:33:20
Agent Palmer
But but I do have to ask because it feels like part of the librarian shtick. Hey, Matt. I’m I’m a very big fan of spies and, sports and history. What should I like, recommend something to me. Like, do you get the, the like. Like I immediately go to clerks. What’s that movie with that guy and that thing?
00:35:33:20 – 00:35:44:25
Agent Palmer
Yeah, right. Like, how vague can we be? But do people ask you for vague books or verb for, you know, that thing written by that guy that did the thing?
00:35:44:30 – 00:36:06:46
Matt Kiefer
Those. If I’m if it’s a good day for me, I can just knock those right out of the park. My Google kung fu skills are pretty good, okay? And we also have a fair amount of, database access. We use something called novelist. It lets us, find what are called what we call read a likes to what you read.
00:36:06:46 – 00:36:17:59
Matt Kiefer
So if you like Ready Player one, you might like, I’ll just pick something. Wool by Hugh Howey. Okay. It’s another dystopian novel. So this might now be.
00:36:18:04 – 00:36:33:45
Agent Palmer
How does it compare to. I mean, because you you’re in that system. So how does that compare to, say, like, being on Amazon and suggested reading? I mean, clearly, I know they’re different databases, they’re running on different AIS. But obviously you’ve been able to see both like.
00:36:33:50 – 00:36:35:09
Matt Kiefer
Yeah,
00:36:35:14 – 00:36:39:09
Agent Palmer
Is is Amazon okay or are they just going for the book?
00:36:39:13 – 00:36:46:09
Matt Kiefer
Amazon for things like that for like books, music CDs and DVDs there. Okay.
00:36:46:14 – 00:36:48:06
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:36:48:11 – 00:37:08:41
Matt Kiefer
There is a and I mean, you hear all this talk about the algorithm and the algorithm for a lot of their sales data for that, it’s like usually if someone’s bought this, odds are high they will have bought that. If it was something where they bought it as a one off, then the algorithm starts to figure out after a while, okay, that’s probably not the genre that they’re reading.
00:37:08:41 – 00:37:36:06
Matt Kiefer
That was more likely a gift that they gave. Okay. And so it gets put into that bucket. Whereas if I had bought three different James Patterson novels across a nine month period, because he publishes every 15 minutes, it feels like, it it really does. I mean, he has books in every level now. It’s mind boggling. But if I bought, you know, several of those, then the algorithm thinks, okay, this is a guy who really like this.
00:37:36:06 – 00:37:44:53
Matt Kiefer
Let’s, let’s bubble up, a couple of Grisham’s or David Baldacci novels. Yeah. On there, just to see if he might. So take a bite with that.
00:37:44:53 – 00:37:48:16
Agent Palmer
Do you know what your algorithm is based off of? Then?
00:37:48:21 – 00:37:50:32
Matt Kiefer
Oh, God. By Amazon.
00:37:50:37 – 00:37:54:33
Agent Palmer
No, no, no, not yours. The library one.
00:37:54:38 – 00:38:23:20
Matt Kiefer
So novelist database. I’m not sure which algorithm it uses, but what it does do is it does pull from several major, industry publications. So Library Journal, Kirkus Reviews. Okay. A couple other places. So it’s like, okay, especially with Kirkus, Kirkus goes out of its way to say this one reads enough. If you are a fan of James Patterson or Danielle Steel or Debbie Macomber or take your pick.
00:38:23:29 – 00:38:39:01
Matt Kiefer
Yeah, the the software that that databases use when like, okay, Kirkus says this, this, this for this book and then over here we have this, this, this for this book. There’s two overlaps on this. So this might not be a bad choice to push forward as a reader like adoption.
00:38:39:01 – 00:38:53:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I might have to go to you for my next books. I mean, in fairness, my to read list is probably a third of the books in my house, so I’ve got a ways to go.
00:38:53:58 – 00:38:54:39
Matt Kiefer
Might be a minute.
00:38:54:39 – 00:39:09:06
Agent Palmer
But I might call you. I might have to bother you at work for like that because I’m like, I’ve been fairly lucky and selective. And it appears that it’s going to stay that way for a while, but like, well, you know.
00:39:09:06 – 00:39:10:05
Matt Kiefer
I like what you like.
00:39:10:05 – 00:39:37:58
Agent Palmer
I mean, that’s that. And that’s part of, like, curating my own library is like, you know, some of this stuff. I just don’t think going to be around or I’ve been reading a bunch of Crighton lately. That might be the most mainstream author, that I really read. Dayton’s not publishing anymore. So, like, you know, I’m out here on my own, right?
00:39:38:03 – 00:39:55:03
Agent Palmer
Douglas Copeland just published a new book, but I’m eight, you know, I’m I’m I’m a stickler for completion ism. So, like, I still got nine more books before I get to whatever he published this year, and, but you so you do read some of the preview stuff now?
00:39:55:08 – 00:39:56:57
Matt Kiefer
Yeah.
00:39:57:01 – 00:40:10:09
Agent Palmer
Do you have, like, library regulars that are, like, you keep recommending me great stuff. And they just come back to you like I’m a no no, like like getting your hair cut by that one person, like. No, I want to recommend me stuff.
00:40:10:20 – 00:40:31:23
Matt Kiefer
We we have our own followers, in our, in our branches. And it varies for, for the two big circulation branches that we have, every librarian has 1 or 2 people and a fan club. Some fan clubs are bigger than others, for sure in a given branch. But I do have a handful of people who like myself, but I.
00:40:31:28 – 00:40:39:58
Matt Kiefer
I literally wander all over the map with it’s like one time I’ll put out, a book like Freakonomics. And then, oh, for like.
00:40:40:07 – 00:40:42:12
Agent Palmer
Quote unquote library picks.
00:40:42:17 – 00:40:44:48
Matt Kiefer
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Oh, yeah.
00:40:44:48 – 00:41:05:56
Agent Palmer
That’s a big responsibility, isn’t it? Like, I mean, people are going to be like, I mean, that’s that’s like, that’s like your top. That’s but you only get one shot. I mean, you get one shot at however long you change it. But that’s like your top five in, in my space. Like, I mean, this is big. This is, people are going to look at you if you put out a bad book.
00:41:06:01 – 00:41:25:28
Matt Kiefer
Yeah, that that’s admittedly true. But I, I’ve also never been shy about putting up books that kind of can get the side eye a little bit. What’s both a blessing and a curse about having such a high circulation branch is that I have, at any given time, at least five books that I can put out there.
00:41:25:28 – 00:41:51:43
Matt Kiefer
Are there the five that I want to put out at that moment in time? Almost never. But it’s like I put up books that are going to be kind of catchy, kind of fun. There’s one book, there’s, what’s his name? Edgar Quintero wrote a book called Meddling Kids, and it’s it’s somewhat of a spoof of the Scooby Doo books, but this time the mystery is actually real.
00:41:51:43 – 00:42:16:22
Matt Kiefer
It’s dark, it’s eldritch, it’s terrifying. It was a terrific audiobook. So I put the book out. I put the audiobook out for somebody that wants a thriller, but maybe not like the usual run and gun kind of thing. I put out a story called Erotic Stories for Punjabi Widows. Which. Oh, I put that sucker front and center.
00:42:16:27 – 00:42:28:16
Matt Kiefer
Just so people that it’s like, what, what? Why? And we have a non-trivial South Asian, population coming in here, so they’re like, what is this? This is. No, I mean, you.
00:42:28:21 – 00:42:38:31
Agent Palmer
You are technically below the Mason-Dixon line. So, I mean, you do have to watch a little bit. You I mean, you’re not the South, but you’re not the North either.
00:42:38:36 – 00:42:54:42
Matt Kiefer
Right? I have yet to if there’s been complaints, it’s never been directed to me. Okay. About what I’ve been putting out there, I definitely don’t put out, like, incendiary stuff or stuff that could be incendiary. I don’t put out books like God Is Dead or.
00:42:54:47 – 00:42:57:22
Agent Palmer
But are those political? The library.
00:42:57:27 – 00:43:01:13
Matt Kiefer
We still collect material like that. Okay. I it just it feels.
00:43:01:13 – 00:43:23:19
Agent Palmer
Like, there are people out there whose sole job it is to light the fire. And if you’ve got that book on your shelf in a public library, then they’re going to find it and take a picture of it and be like, I can’t believe, blah, blah, blah.
00:43:23:24 – 00:43:41:36
Matt Kiefer
Oh, we still do. But the thing, the thing about it is, is that what people have to realize and understand is that this is not a right or left religious atheist thing. There is literally in a good library going to be something that just pisses you the hell off, that it’s there.
00:43:41:41 – 00:43:52:40
Agent Palmer
I can, I can see that that makes I mean, good luck finding that for me. But I understand, right? I mean, some of us are fairly open and will not be shocked by anything.
00:43:52:44 – 00:44:26:57
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. And, and most of the complaints that we get are I don’t want to say and I don’t want to make it sound like I’m dismissive because I’m really not. I understand why people, they feel invested in this library and they feel invested in what material they or their children could borrow. So again, I’m saying I’m not being dismissive of it, but when they’re talking about a book where they perceive a main character being disrespectful of their parents, I’m like, well, okay, let’s have a conversation about this is that you’re looking at a was a teen novel.
00:44:27:01 – 00:44:36:07
Matt Kiefer
So already you’re I hate to say it like this. You’re kind of behind the eight ball. If it’s a teen novel and it’s teen centric, guess what? There’s going to be? It’s yeah.
00:44:36:12 – 00:44:37:07
Agent Palmer
Teens centric.
00:44:37:07 – 00:44:48:33
Matt Kiefer
Like it’s teen centric. It’s drama. It’s it’s it’s friction with a capital F written in gold filigree and fancy curlicues everywhere. It’s it’s just how it’s going to be. So it’s.
00:44:48:33 – 00:45:00:14
Agent Palmer
Got draw. It’s got, it’s the, it’s the my husband’s name is, but it’s Mr. Drama. Me and Mr. Drama, like all over the front of the nobody much.
00:45:00:14 – 00:45:19:27
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. All right, I got it. I got like a yeah, yeah, we’ll have that. Then there will be people who are like, well, you know this, there was one book, and I’m trying to think of this was one that actually caused a little bit more of a stir. And this was somewhat of a its acquisition was a bit of an accident.
00:45:19:32 – 00:45:44:55
Matt Kiefer
Which was it was a book. And I cannot for the life of me remember the title for it. So I’m my own worst enemy here. I, I’m that which I hate. One of the reasons I love a given book. I could probably find it if I could access the memos from work, but it was a book that said that teenage girls were being funneled through this cult of transgenderism, which, when you use the phrase cult of transgenderism, you are know which way this goes.
00:45:44:55 – 00:46:07:42
Matt Kiefer
Yeah, as far as the political spectrum is concerned. And so it’s a it’s a book with a, a particular viewpoint. And they were upset that they, we didn’t have more copies of it as a system. We own ten, which is vastly more than we would have really had for a subject that is relatively, a niche subject.
00:46:07:42 – 00:46:09:42
Matt Kiefer
Yes. It’s not mathematics. It’s not.
00:46:09:57 – 00:46:45:15
Agent Palmer
I have to tell you, I’m still shocked that people get that in 2020, 2021, 2022. Like now, decades beyond the millennium, people still get outraged at a book like that. And I look, I’m I’m a reader and I’m saying this and I just I understand people getting outraged by a movie. Not so much music anymore. I feel like if you’re getting outraged by music, hold the phone.
00:46:45:20 – 00:46:49:48
Agent Palmer
Just don’t listen. But books, I I.
00:46:49:59 – 00:46:52:25
Matt Kiefer
We’re not making you check it out. You can put it right back on the.
00:46:52:25 – 00:47:18:13
Agent Palmer
Shelf, but that’s the I don’t understand, like, I, I, I don’t, I don’t get it. And, also, how did you find out about this? Because you didn’t read it. I mean, if you did, we’d have a, you know, but we’d have a conversation. But you’re just outraged to be outraged, but still outraged by a book. The millennium happened.
00:47:18:13 – 00:47:24:18
Agent Palmer
We’ve moved on. Get angry at the internet like everyone else. Leave the books alone.
00:47:24:23 – 00:47:48:54
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. I mean, if you want it. I saw a great quote today is that we are still taking our shoes off in airports for something that may almost have happened 20 years ago, and meanwhile, we have people getting into fistfights over wearing masks, or whether library represents a too much of a viewpoint one way or the other. And I’m like, the sense of perspective can be sometimes lost out there.
00:47:48:54 – 00:48:29:40
Matt Kiefer
So that’s why we try to provide multiple perspectives. So if you don’t like this one, try on that other one over there. It’s fine. You know I don’t want to have to hear about it. You know, I’m happy to show you where it is. And, you know, if you if you want to read about, you know, children being indoctrinated to only worship at the altar of TikTok or, you know, that one cable news personality, he is a really he’s a really erudite viewpoint, which, you know, you know, it’s because I’m pretty sure he can spell erudite if it helped, even with, with even with help.
00:48:29:45 – 00:48:37:37
Agent Palmer
Well, the problem with erudite is that, if you type it in wrong, autocorrect still has no idea what you’re exactly.
00:48:37:37 – 00:48:44:54
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. That’s one of those things I live for. The $20 word to describe a $5 concept.
00:48:44:59 – 00:49:12:53
Agent Palmer
I I I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you, because you’ve been in the library for so long, metaphorically and otherwise. What are like some of the, like, misconceptions? Like, what do people still either get wrong or like, myths you’ve heard? Because I feel like every field, every anything has its myths. Is there like a good juicy one?
00:49:12:58 – 00:49:35:36
Matt Kiefer
I mean, we talked about this a couple times. We are no longer a quiet space. By and large we are a public gathering space for pretty much the entire community that we serve. While there are still quiet areas, we have like study rooms and magazine rooms for quiet reading and study. Basically, if you’re in the middle of the floor, it’s not going to be silent.
00:49:35:36 – 00:49:44:58
Matt Kiefer
We’re not going to swoop down from the ceiling tiles and just shush you aggressively. Like secret agent style and zip line back up and.
00:49:45:01 – 00:49:45:35
Agent Palmer
Wrong.
00:49:45:44 – 00:49:57:01
Matt Kiefer
I know right. One thing that is true, there are a lot of people who love cardigans, and I do not get it. They they love cardigan sweaters, man. It’s it’s mystifying.
00:49:57:10 – 00:50:00:32
Agent Palmer
Is the library still a place to go on a hot day?
00:50:00:37 – 00:50:02:35
Matt Kiefer
It is. Okay.
00:50:02:40 – 00:50:04:32
Agent Palmer
Do your numbers go up in the summer?
00:50:04:36 – 00:50:19:12
Matt Kiefer
Our numbers? Yeah, I would say our numbers go up pretty much starting from, let’s say, April. Okay, so not summer, but, I mean, being in the Mid-Atlantic, it might as well be. Yeah. What’s the humidity?
00:50:19:13 – 00:50:21:59
Agent Palmer
It’s 112%, right? Yeah. Okay.
00:50:22:01 – 00:50:47:00
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. When birds kind of, like, pop in the sky, squab wafting to the ground. Yeah. Just like manna from heaven. Yes. That’s Baltimore. No. Yeah. So pretty much from April through probably end of October, we see a significant spike in people coming in. It does noticeably trend downward pretty much in September when school is more or less back into it.
00:50:47:04 – 00:51:00:39
Matt Kiefer
And so right now we’re going to enter the really quiet period from like November through March ish. And then April onwards, it’s going to be first will be spring break and then, starting in late May.
00:51:00:44 – 00:51:03:28
Agent Palmer
Hold on. You see an uptick for spring break.
00:51:03:28 – 00:51:20:19
Matt Kiefer
It’s starting around that it’s okay. It’s when a lot of projects for schools start getting assigned those last quarter, projects. So they come to the library because, oh, okay, we’ll just do all of our group work there. I’m, I’m in the middle of two elementary schools, a middle school, and not too far away as a high school.
00:51:20:19 – 00:51:25:28
Matt Kiefer
So everybody comes here for, their project, okay.
00:51:25:28 – 00:51:26:49
Agent Palmer
For group time?
00:51:26:54 – 00:51:47:58
Matt Kiefer
Yeah, pretty much for group time. So starting around that time. So around spring ish break, you know, you’ve been assigned this last leg of work. You got to get this done. So post spring break you come in and do that. May is when we start the the War drums for the summer reading program. Okay. The study boom boom boom and June onwards.
00:51:47:58 – 00:52:12:55
Matt Kiefer
It’s just bonkers. Just great. A crazy, when we were closed up last year, for in in person services, we only had curbside, like a lot of other places did. We had a walk up table, and I’m not making this up one, I’m telling you that we had, on average, about 400 people, a quarter of what we would see on a daily basis.
00:52:12:55 – 00:52:42:01
Matt Kiefer
Yeah. No, I’m sorry, a third. I didn’t get into librarianship for math. A third of our daily door count coming in in a highly compressed time period to pick up hold to check out material that we had put out on display. It was insane. But, you know, we did amazing work with that. So, what else is that in libraries, depending on where you go, they are not slow.
00:52:42:06 – 00:53:07:31
Matt Kiefer
They will be fast paced for usually different reasons. For mine, it’s the programs and, that we offer the storytimes and, and so on. So there’ll be a lot of traffic for storytime, which then means a lot of traffic at the circulation desk to check out for other branches. It’s there near certain public transit routes. So people getting off, they’re coming in there to check their email or apply for jobs or any number of other things.
00:53:07:36 – 00:53:33:23
Matt Kiefer
So no library is ever really, truly slow when you when you put what that library’s primary for a reason for existence. Yeah, yeah yeah. It once you once you realize that it’s like yeah it no libraries truly slow. It’ll look slow to the outside observer. But it it usually isn’t. It’s it can be pretty frenetic depending on where you are.
00:53:33:28 – 00:53:35:56
Agent Palmer
So if that’s the case right.
00:53:36:01 – 00:53:36:30
Matt Kiefer
00:53:36:35 – 00:54:01:15
Agent Palmer
Do you, I was going to give you, like a platform, like to be like, come to your local library. But like, if you’re busy, maybe I should be like, you know, wait until the slow season now, like, wait until the winter and go to your public library and then, you know, you know, strike up a conversation with your local mat.
00:54:01:24 – 00:54:28:59
Matt Kiefer
Well, and again, knocking on wood, we are one of the better staff branches. So even though it’s busy, yeah, we can usually make the time to help. What people should understand for their libraries is, is that we do our level best to help all the time, but everything from a combination from Georgia funding, which usually means then a shortage in staffing to just an overwhelming demand from the public for our attention, time and resources.
00:54:29:04 – 00:54:51:14
Matt Kiefer
We can’t always necessarily give you the time that you would hope for. We can get. What we usually do is we can say we’ll spend ten 15 minutes with you, but if it goes on longer than that, like if I have to fix your iPad to try and download ebooks, but you don’t have your Apple ID password or anything else like that, what we’ll do is we’ll stop.
00:54:51:14 – 00:55:13:47
Matt Kiefer
We’ll say, let’s regroup, let’s book an appointment. You, me solid hour where we get this knocked out of the park. You get your e-books on your Amazon, iPad, Kindle, Android, whatever you want to call it. And I’ve heard everything. And we’ll get you out of there. So for my system, we’re, we’re pretty well equipped to help people out with this.
00:55:13:52 – 00:55:35:20
Matt Kiefer
There’s lots of branches out there where we have, mobile law van. We have lawyers go around the county to provide sort of quick legal clinic stuff. We have social workers now who are going to embed in certain libraries and kind of rotate between branches here and there to help people with things from, navigating social services, websites, applying for benefits.
00:55:35:20 – 00:56:11:45
Matt Kiefer
Take your pick. Yeah. Libraries do a lot of things. And it’s not just about the books. It’s about connecting people with their resources. And, you know, we have a lot of really just amazing, very caring people who do this, kind of thing. So, you know, yeah, the books and everything else, it’s always going to be important. But coming into a library and finding people who can get you started on the path to the right answer for what you’re looking for, you know, I mean, that’s what gets me out of bed in.
00:56:11:50 – 00:56:17:09
Agent Palmer
You.
00:56:17:13 – 00:56:42:35
Agent Palmer
I wanted to come on here after this conversation and tell you to be nice to librarians because especially in Matt’s case, where he is part of a public library system, understaffed and overworked is almost part of the job description. Which is true, but that’s not what I want to focus on. I want to focus on a quote from author Neil Gaiman, who said, quote, Google can bring you back 100,000 answers.
00:56:42:40 – 00:57:11:49
Agent Palmer
A librarian can bring you back the right one, unquote. Matt, been at this a while. I asked him about recommendations, and while he has fun with his librarian picks, he has people that seek him out to recommend things. He is a part of the process that helps us find not just information, but the right information. We oftentimes forget that sometimes there can be more information on a topic to better help our understanding.
00:57:11:53 – 00:57:38:11
Agent Palmer
We forget this because we are busy, and we are bombarded with so much information that even when we seek it out for clarification or education or or even just a better understanding of our world, we take the least amount possible because we are so overwhelmed. Don’t be overwhelmed. And perhaps the key to not being overwhelmed is to unplug and go to the library.
00:57:38:16 – 00:58:05:02
Agent Palmer
Perhaps like Match library, one of your local libraries is a library of things. Perhaps there are opportunities for adventure in the real world, in addition to those that can be had inside the pages of a book. And they’re all just waiting for you at your local library. You can find a library near you by going to WorldCat Corgi Libraries, even when you aren’t at home.
00:58:05:07 – 00:58:27:39
Agent Palmer
Because when was the last time you went into a library outside of a scholastic setting? And if I may be so presumptuous, why has it been so long? Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 60. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business, the Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
00:58:27:39 – 00:58:49:27
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest Matt at Psionic M. Net’s CEO Nick M, and this show at The Palmer Files. You can visit Matt at the library or watch him play video games on Twitch.tv. Slash psionic monkey where he is a variety streamer playing whatever strikes his fancy.
00:58:49:32 – 00:59:02:31
Agent Palmer
Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:59:02:36 – 00:59:38:31
Agent Palmer
You.
00:59:38:36 – 00:59:46:20
Agent Palmer
See? All right. Matt, do you have one final question for me?
00:59:46:25 – 00:59:48:51
Matt Kiefer
What is your favorite novel?
00:59:48:56 – 00:59:52:12
Agent Palmer
All right. Favorite novel? Well, I feel like we’ll.
00:59:52:12 – 00:59:53:29
Matt Kiefer
Keep it to fiction this time.
00:59:53:38 – 01:00:30:54
Agent Palmer
We’ll keep it to fiction. All right, so I feel like there’s a part of me because this came up in a recent episode. Or a recent after question. I don’t know, one of the two. Which was what book would you not want to or would you want to forget and reread again? And I said, the Great and Secret Show by Clive Barker, because I, I, I’m afraid to reread it, so I’d rather forget about it altogether and reread it, but that, to me is not a favorite novel, because a favorite novel, to me is something that you just read over and over and over again.
01:00:30:59 – 01:01:01:26
Agent Palmer
And in that regard, it could be any number of things right now. It’s going to be one of the authors that I keep going back to. Right? So narrowing it down, I’m not entirely sure how I’m going to do this, but Clive Barker’s Galilee is an amazing love story. Okay. But it’s not so it’s so much more than that.
01:01:01:31 – 01:01:28:40
Agent Palmer
And that’s one that I have read a couple times. And I love it every single time I read it. Michael Crichton, you know what? I actually think The Lost World is one of the best books ever written. It reads like a play on an island. It’s nothing like the movie. And look, I still love Jurassic Park, but The Lost World is just so.
01:01:28:42 – 01:01:51:01
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, something else. Something else about it. And then, you know, I’ve read all the Dayton’s, but I’ve been reading through all the Dayton, so I’ve never gone back. I haven’t read any of the Dayton’s, but Douglas Copeland, however, I think I’d, I think microservice might be up there as well as one of those like super.
01:01:51:05 – 01:01:54:57
Agent Palmer
I could read this book over and over again. So I gave you a bunch right there.
01:01:54:57 – 01:01:55:51
Matt Kiefer
Of course. Yes, you.
01:01:55:51 – 01:02:17:10
Agent Palmer
These are a bunch that I can read over and over again of them right now, probably. Galilei is the leader in the clubhouse. But that’s also because of the ones I mentioned. It’s the only one I have read multiple times. The others I want to read again and again. But who has the time to read again and again?
01:02:17:10 – 01:02:42:44
Agent Palmer
What I just told you in the episode, I got a third of my house that I still need to read. So, like, rereading these is not likely to happen anytime soon. But I have to say Galley by Clive Barker, and it’s just one of those. It’s fantasy, it’s romance. It’s got a little bit of that, like historical mystique.
01:02:42:49 – 01:03:04:09
Agent Palmer
It does have like elements of a Harlequin romance, like small elements, but it’s also supernatural and like so much more. So it crosses so many genres, which might be one of the reasons I can just keep rereading it, because it’s like so much other things. And depending on your mood, you might pick up different things from it.
01:03:04:09 – 01:03:32:05
Agent Palmer
So I guess galley final answer, but in fairness, had you asked favorite book, I would probably still go with the rereading concept and still go with the novel because I don’t know of all the things I’ve ever reread. I don’t think I’ve ever reread any nonfiction. I for me, I read nonfiction and I learned from it, and I’m done.
01:03:32:18 – 01:04:02:08
Agent Palmer
And I keep it on my shelf because, number one, I’m a collector. And number two, or just maybe one day I want to look up that quote in that thing one time. But, I’m still more likely to just flip through a piece of nonfiction that I’ve already read. Whereas fiction, I will eventually, if I ever finish reading all of the other books not in the world, but just in my house, I will revisit them.
01:04:02:13 – 01:04:25:14
Matt Kiefer
I have I smirking a little bit just because what you were saying about having that nonfiction book on your shelf, just in case you might need a quote from that someday. I can’t tell you the number of interactions I have in a given week of people who are like, I read this book in 1996. I’m hoping you still have it on your shelf and I’m like, oh, honey, this is.
01:04:25:19 – 01:04:26:23
Agent Palmer
Well, I know library.
01:04:26:27 – 01:04:27:17
Matt Kiefer
Book lessons.
01:04:27:30 – 01:04:32:04
Agent Palmer
I mean, I know libraries purge, but you do hold on to some of those things, right?
01:04:32:04 – 01:04:50:50
Matt Kiefer
Oh, yeah. I mean, we hold on to material as long as it still circulates. If it checks out even once in a year, it lives another day, so to speak, or lives another year. Really? Okay. But it is not really as much of a focus of our collection development process to have.
01:04:50:55 – 01:04:52:50
Agent Palmer
Every tutorial, every written.
01:04:52:55 – 01:05:12:02
Matt Kiefer
Pretty much, our contemporaries in the Baltimore City system, they’re much more likely to be like, oh, yeah, sure. We’ll just throw it and read that storage and, you know, imagine like, the end of Indiana Jones with the crates and everything else. And it’s it’s not a stretch, to just imagine some poor, poor person just wandering around.
01:05:12:02 – 01:05:14:33
Matt Kiefer
They’re just like, Yeah, sure. We’ll just do it.
01:05:14:33 – 01:05:31:26
Agent Palmer
Oh, that’s so so it does beg the question though, like, in the library proper, the Dewey Decimal System is like reign supreme, and we can always find books, but in red dot storage, that can’t still be the case.
01:05:31:31 – 01:05:42:24
Matt Kiefer
So it gets worse. Because I library system uses Dewey Decimal, our contemporaries in Baltimore City use the, Library of Congress.
01:05:42:24 – 01:05:43:13
Agent Palmer
There’s an.
01:05:43:18 – 01:05:54:48
Matt Kiefer
System. Oh, yeah, and it gets even worse. There are some library systems that even go as far as to just ditch the numbers entirely, and they just label it based on the subject matter.
01:05:54:48 – 01:05:56:33
Agent Palmer
So like a bookstore? Yeah.
01:05:56:33 – 01:05:59:13
Matt Kiefer
So pretty much like a bookstore. Okay. Yeah.
01:05:59:18 – 01:06:17:19
Agent Palmer
I can understand how that would be good for the user, like the consumer, because, you know, I’m used to browsing. Well, I guess I mean, how many like what? What every bookstore I’m about to announce except for Barnes and Noble is gone. Like. Oh, yeah, I’m used to looking at borders.
01:06:17:33 – 01:06:17:57
Matt Kiefer
Or.
01:06:17:57 – 01:06:26:55
Agent Palmer
Walden or. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those things don’t exist anymore. There they are. But I do understand it a little bit, because that’s how I. Right.
01:06:27:09 – 01:06:36:55
Matt Kiefer
But yeah. So it’s fine for when you’re dealing with subjects like theology, like you could say theology, Christian theology, Buddhism, theology, Islam, biology, Judaism.
01:06:36:55 – 01:06:37:33
Agent Palmer
Yes.
01:06:37:38 – 01:06:55:42
Matt Kiefer
However, both Dewey Decimal and Library of Congress classifications and I cannot talk intelligently on on cataloging in this kind of stuff because that was a class I almost did not pass in my my, master’s in library science courses. I was not a good cataloging student.
01:06:55:42 – 01:06:58:01
Agent Palmer
That just doesn’t seem like fun.
01:06:58:06 – 01:07:26:09
Matt Kiefer
It’s it’s you have to have a certain mindset and an almost savant like level of patience to figure out how to do that stuff. And I bought, our team just I sent them gift cards. I’m like, thank you. Because, Jesus Christ, I don’t want to do this. Thank you for, you know, knock. Also knock on wood, a lot of our publishers and suppliers just submit these, Dewey decimal records for us automatically so we don’t have to do a lot of extra stuff.
01:07:26:09 – 01:07:55:59
Matt Kiefer
We might finesse the numbers a little bit, just, to keep them more or less in line with our shelving, but nothing radical. So, yeah, there’s Dewey Decimal, there’s Library of Congress, library of Congress. I still don’t understand it, but it’s also the most comprehensive album. Okay, Melvil Dewey, there’s a it’s motion underfoot to kind of move away from Dewey Decimal because, Melvil Dewey had a he’s a bit problematic.
01:07:56:04 – 01:08:23:36
Matt Kiefer
He class his his system would classify things like homosexuality as mental illness or, Okay. Yeah. So some of the, you know, to the average user, no one’s going to know that because those numbers have been reclaimed for another purpose. But anybody that it’s a very library centric problem be like, oh, Melvil Dewey, horrible, racist, homophobe, sexist pig.
01:08:23:36 – 01:08:24:22
Matt Kiefer
I mean, he was.
01:08:24:27 – 01:08:48:12
Agent Palmer
I’m not like, I’m like, I’m not. He was laughing because of anything other than, I, they all were like, you know, like like we we we, the telescope named after James Webb, like, he did a lot. He helped us get to the moon. Kind of a piece of shit, like. But you helped us get to the moon, though, you know, like.
01:08:48:16 – 01:08:59:04
Agent Palmer
Yeah, and I understand there’s a some people don’t see the balance at all, like, oh, no, that. Yeah, but that’s a that’s another time.
01:08:59:09 – 01:08:59:29
Matt Kiefer
Right.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).