Agent Palmer

For episode seven of The Palmer Files, guest Geoffrey Welchman joins Agent Palmer to discuss The Reigning Lunatic Podcast.

The Reigning Lunatic podcast was a scripted sitcom set in a despotic medieval kingdom plagued by dragons, wizards, and dreadful wifi.

Geoffrey and Jason talk about origins for The Reigning Lunatic and Inverse Delirium podcasts, all points in our past leading us to podcasting, and for one final time, I bother Geoffrey to resurrect The Reigning Lunatic.

Throughout the conversation, we discuss:

• The Goon Show
• Monty Python
• Inverse Delirium Podcast
  • Spoofing NPR
  • Podcast Burnout
• Time Management
• Connections
• The Process of creating The Reigning Lunatic
• Writing
• Satire and Comedy
• Breaking the 4th Wall
• Mr. Show
• Collecting Comedy Albums
• The First Sketch
• Music as a technical background
• Tape Letters: Before there were podcasts
• My similar origin story
• Sound design/Sound engineering
• Audiophile frustrations
• The Art of a Blank Canvas
• Guidelines and Challenging yourself
• The Rules of The Reigning Lunatic
• Geoffrey’s Music History
• Being an Artist
• Promotion
• The Extra Mile
• Echo in the Canyon documentary
• Folk Music
• Songwriting
• Storytelling

Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode

Listen to The Reigning Lunatic on SoundCloud.

You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.

Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.

–End Show Notes Transmission–

–Begin Transcription–

00:00:00:07 – 00:00:19:30
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com A guest post about the Star Wars Book of Sith. You can see anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant, the movie, and I’m still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. This is The Palmer Files episode seven with The Reigning Lunatic himself, Geoffrey Welchman, where we talk about origins for the Reigning Lunatic podcast.

00:00:19:45 – 00:00:52:07
Agent Palmer
All points in our past leading us to podcasting. And for one final time, I bother Geoffrey to resurrect The Reigning Lunatic. Let’s do the show.

00:00:52:12 – 00:01:17:50
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this episode is podcast royalty, the King, known as the reigning lunatic Geoffrey Welchman. Now the Reigning Lunatic Podcast, was a nine episode mini series that aired in late 2015 early 2016. It was a scripted sitcom set in the despotic medieval kingdom plagued by dragons, wizards, and dreadful Wi-Fi.

00:01:17:55 – 00:01:35:47
Agent Palmer
I came to know about this show from who else But ten? The royal public were later voiced by my good friend Grant Markham. He was only in episode nine, so by the time I got to the series, I was able to binge the entire thing, which I urge you to do. So the Reigning Lunatic Podcast is what brought Jeffrey and I together.

00:01:36:01 – 00:02:01:46
Agent Palmer
Perhaps it would have happened anyway. Not only are our stories very similar and how we got into podcasting and the skills and things that led us to podcasting, but we were basically hanging around the fringes of overlapping circles since The Reigning Lunatics last episode in April of 2016, Jeffrey and I have stayed in touch, and all I know is that while on this episode, I asked him for the final answer on the possible return to Welchmania for the lunatic.

00:02:01:58 – 00:02:32:26
Agent Palmer
I didn’t say I had to give up asking him for new content. Sorry, Geoffrey. Geoffrey was another one of those potential guests that sprouted up on the initial list of people I might want to have on a podcast if I ever launched one. Well, seven episodes in and here he is now. Since it’s very important that you get an actual feel for what the Ranting Lunatic podcast is, here’s a clip from episode two that will give you a taste.

00:02:32:31 – 00:02:52:28
From The Reigning Lunatic Episode 2
And as you can hear, we’re speeding westwards in the royal carriage on a top secret mission. Captain of the gods, how much further is it? Only a few weeks, my lord. But I must reiterate, this journey is full of risk. And it’s fiendishly expensive. So what do you mean? Old Grimsby, the accountant. And what are you doing in my private carriage, anyway?

00:02:52:30 – 00:03:23:27
From The Reigning Lunatic Episode 2
Cutting costs. So. Oh, it’s a most economical new trend called carriage pooling, sire. Piffle. While my only concern is your safety, sire, why is my brother hatching another plot to assassinate me? Of course, sire, but it’s not that. What else could it be, then? All I care about is repairing and finishing the grand border wall. Hahahahaha hahahahaha! Driver, stop the carriage!

00:03:23:36 – 00:03:50:49
From The Reigning Lunatic Episode 2
As you wish, sire. Whoa! I say, you peasant girl! Me? Goodness, is that the royal seal? Yes, he likes to sit up top. Are you our monarch savings girl? We’re on a secret mission. How could you tell I’m royal? The neon crown that adorns the carriage, sire. Sire, I am but a chaste maiden whose mother warned never to talk to strange monarchs.

00:03:50:53 – 00:03:58:32
From The Reigning Lunatic Episode 2
Who told your mother I was strange?

00:03:58:37 – 00:04:19:07
Agent Palmer
Geoffrey and I will soon get into the conversation where we start off with inspirations and origins of the Reigning Lunatic podcast. But before we move on, I’d like to take a moment to talk to you about small, independent podcasts, podcasts like mine, and those of my current guest and previous guests. The Wicked Theory podcast. How was your week on the podcast digest?

00:04:19:07 – 00:04:42:03
Agent Palmer
The best neighbors podcast, the Modern Myth with Tristan Boyle, The Fourth Line podcast and Inverse Delirium podcast. All enjoy podcast ING, but we all want feedback too. Now, there are monetary ways to support all of these shows in some way or another, or at least at one time there was. But feedback even more than reviews on the platform you consume podcasts is very important.

00:04:42:08 – 00:05:01:32
Agent Palmer
So over the course of the next few weeks, spend a little time sending a tweet or an email or a message to the podcasters who shows you enjoy. Let them know what it means to you to listen and why you enjoy them. It will go a long way in making the day or even week of those people behind the mics at your favorite show.

00:05:01:37 – 00:05:25:14
Agent Palmer
Now, one of those shows for me was Geoffrey Welchman, the reigning lunatic. And since I was able to infiltrate the Kingdom Welch mania, we should get this introduction moving. But you know the drill. Before we get into the episode proper, you can hear Geoffrey in back episodes of his shows The Reigning Lunatic and Inverse Delirium podcasts. You can also follow him on Twitter at Welch Mania.

00:05:25:14 – 00:05:45:59
Agent Palmer
You can also follow the show at The Palmer Files and me at Agent Palmer. Of course, all these links and those mentioned in the show will be in the show notes. So without further ado, let us away to the conversation.

00:05:46:03 – 00:05:51:11
Agent Palmer
Geoffrey, where did the inspiration for the reigning lunatic come from?

00:05:51:16 – 00:06:22:00
Geoffrey Welchman
Well, it came from a couple of places. Mainly it was, sort of a combination of of Monty Python, basically. And the Holy Grail, sort of. That whole movie was such a wonderful world that they created that, that was that was a big part of it. And then of course, there was this, English radio comedy show from the 50s that actually inspired all the British guys from the 60s, including Monty Python.

00:06:22:05 – 00:06:44:09
Geoffrey Welchman
It was called The Goon Show. And Peter Sellers was one of the three people he became a huge star. Of course, Spike Milligan, was, wrote most of the shows and he was just insane. I mean, literally, he was well, I shouldn’t say that he was mentally ill, which he was very forthright about and which was amazing considering it was the 60s.

00:06:44:14 – 00:07:07:40
Geoffrey Welchman
He was clinically depressed and he had. Anyway, long story short, he wrote very off the wall, surreal, comedy. And it was just performed so well. Peter Sellers did a million voices. This other guy, Harry sitcom was the the hero type of of all the stories. And so that was sort of a jumping off point.

00:07:07:45 – 00:07:25:42
Geoffrey Welchman
I’m not Peter Sellers, and I’m not the writer that Spike Milligan or Monty Python. Well, all of those guys could write great comedy and also very surreal stuff. That is a long winded answer of, of what inspired me to to do this.

00:07:25:42 – 00:07:29:04
Agent Palmer
Well, so first of all, did you grow up in Baltimore?

00:07:29:09 – 00:07:33:46
Geoffrey Welchman
No, I grew up in New England in, town called Pomfret, Connecticut.

00:07:33:46 – 00:07:52:34
Agent Palmer
Okay. Because at the end of your episodes, I know it’s, you know, you have a wonderful tag that I feel like is like an homage to those classic radio programs. But New England, you know, northeast. I get the feeling that you got your Python from PBS.

00:07:52:39 – 00:08:21:31
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh, yes. Definitely. So. Well, it actually also, my dad was born in England. Okay. And so he actually heard The Goon Show, and then his father, my grandfather, who was Gordon Welchman, he was a, a code breaker in the, in World War two and worked with Alan Turing and all this stuff. He was fascinated with tape recorders and he taped a lot of these shows off the radio with reel to reel recorders.

00:08:21:31 – 00:08:44:45
Geoffrey Welchman
This was back in the day. And so he then transferred them all to cassettes so that we could listen to them. So here I was, a kid in the 70s listening to comedy from England of the 50s. And the whole family loved it. And then, of course, when Monty Python started to show up on PBS, yes, we were, we were watching every episode.

00:08:44:50 – 00:08:45:31
Geoffrey Welchman
Absolutely.

00:08:45:31 – 00:09:09:10
Agent Palmer
So that explains how you get this older radio. But, I mean, a lot has happened since then. First of all, I mean, not even why podcast, but like, why audio? I mean, obviously video is a completely different beast, but, you know, there’s animation, there’s all these other platforms from which you could have, you know, easily taken this script.

00:09:09:15 – 00:09:13:54
Agent Palmer
Why did it end up being, you know, audio one and then a podcast?

00:09:14:08 – 00:09:40:35
Geoffrey Welchman
Well, I had done a podcast that was called The Inverse Delirium for four years, and that was like, also short. I liked the idea of producing something short. It ended up being about 15 minutes long, and it started as sort of a spoof of, of, public radio, basically. I called it, a look at life in this American Baltimore or something.

00:09:40:40 – 00:10:07:44
Geoffrey Welchman
And so because I do have kind of a PR type voice, I was the host and I was writing sketches, and it was a very, you know, basically a sketch comedy thing set in a public radio setting. And so we did that for a long time. My wife ended up, helping a lot with, with ideas because she’s also really funny.

00:10:07:49 – 00:10:44:24
Geoffrey Welchman
And so that was kind of an effort that that just snowballed. And by the end of it, I was getting like really big name comedians, to, to be on the show. I had, Lewis Black was on one. Kevin Pollak was on one. He agreed to do some, a sketch I had written. I mean, it was just blowing me away that people who I really, you know, think are just amazing, writers and performers would do, you know, would do my little, my little sketches and send me the tape so that I could cut it together as a podcast.

00:10:44:24 – 00:11:08:54
Geoffrey Welchman
So I was just so frazzled at the end of it, from trying to track people down and book new, you know, guests and you’ll you’ll know all about this, getting to the point where I was recording and then taking 20 hours to edit it together with all the sound effects and putting the voices in the right places and stuff like that.

00:11:08:59 – 00:11:34:02
Geoffrey Welchman
So it just it just did me in and I finally just had to pull the plug. And that was in 2014. And, after quite a rest, my wife and I were just sort of, joking around and she came up with the name Reigning Lunatic off of Raging Lunatic, and I forget what we were talking about, but I immediately just went with that title.

00:11:34:02 – 00:11:57:37
Geoffrey Welchman
I loved it and I wanted and I started we started riffing and, and came up with ideas about like, oh, it’s a king. And he, he needs a wife, and he keeps putting them in the dungeon. And then, he’s got a brother who wants to kill him. Of course, you know that kind of thing. Yeah. And and just just it just sort of started to take shape.

00:11:57:37 – 00:12:18:10
Geoffrey Welchman
And that’s typically how I used to do sketches. If I wrote to myself, that was one thing. But if she came up with an idea, you know, it’s sort of back and forth, banter it out and flesh it out. And then I would write it up. And so I just basically started writing scripts and was having so much fun writing the scripts, really.

00:12:18:15 – 00:12:39:07
Geoffrey Welchman
And initially I thought it was just going to be something that I could do with, you know, very few people rather than the problem with Inverse delirium was getting guests, lining them up, getting them to record what I wanted, getting them to get it back to me. You know? You know how that is, you know, trying to book people and, you know, sort of keep your schedule.

00:12:39:12 – 00:12:44:30
Geoffrey Welchman
That’s the hardest thing about podcasting, because you really got to learn to, manage your time.

00:12:44:32 – 00:13:12:33
Agent Palmer
It’s also I was a part of and I’ve talked about this on a few other episodes, but I was a part of the behind the scenes of, Chronicles unwritten, which Diamond Dave was basically writing. Audience choose your Own adventure, which was more of a, a B at the end of every episode. And then, you know, he would write based on a poll and oh, yes, kind of stuff.

00:13:12:33 – 00:13:40:19
Agent Palmer
And originally it was Dave wrote it. I edited the copy, and then he sent it off. And Tristin, who was, the fifth guest for this show, was the narrator. And that was great for like 2 or 3 episodes. And listen, there’s a that one, right? Like, Dave’s got a full time job. I’ve got a full time job, Tristan’s got a job.

00:13:40:23 – 00:14:09:57
Agent Palmer
And the fact that Dave’s in, I think he was in British Columbia somewhere. I’m on the east coast of the US, and Tristan’s in Scotland, and we had to wait for the episode to come out to see what the audience said to Dave could write wherever the story was going to go, and that was one thing. But then Dave, for whatever reason, was like, well, Tristan doesn’t need to do it all, so we’ll get another person to do another voice.

00:14:10:02 – 00:14:34:39
Agent Palmer
And I think towards the end of Chronicles Unwritten, there were like four voices on any one given episode. But even that spread across whatever it was, I mean yours. I have since come to know some of the people behind the scenes. I mean, I got to know about your podcast, The Reigning Lunatic the first time through ten the royal public relator.

00:14:34:47 – 00:14:37:04
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh yes. I just heard that today.

00:14:37:04 – 00:14:37:33
Agent Palmer

00:14:37:33 – 00:14:38:03
Geoffrey Welchman
Grant.

00:14:38:07 – 00:14:58:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Because Grant was on it and he was talking about it and I, you know, I didn’t know Courtney at the time. I know Courtney now. I recognize some of the other names. They’re also spread around two. So you undertook this and you write this script. Let’s get back to that for a second. Like. Yeah. You wrote it.

00:14:58:17 – 00:15:07:33
Agent Palmer
Was it, were all nine parts there? I mean, you talked about wanting to keep it short or, like, what was it after that first draft, I guess.

00:15:07:34 – 00:15:14:47
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh. Oh, okay. So, well, after the first show and after or after the first script, I guess,

00:15:14:51 – 00:15:16:23
Geoffrey Welchman
I well.

00:15:16:27 – 00:15:47:23
Geoffrey Welchman
I just looked in my old archive and I had scripts up to 70, but I don’t think that the last two were finished. There were definitely a few more, actually, that I wanted to get to, really, but but I just, I it just again, it was a situation where, you know, real life intruded. I had a new job, and I really needed to, you know, just give them my all, because there was kind of a learning curve involved for me.

00:15:47:28 – 00:15:54:57
Geoffrey Welchman
And I was using lessons, that I’d learned from all my audio work. Oh, yeah. You know, I never answered your question. Why? Audio.

00:15:54:57 – 00:15:56:29
Agent Palmer
Did I know? But we can.

00:15:56:29 – 00:15:57:10
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh, we can circle back.

00:15:57:10 – 00:16:10:46
Agent Palmer
Yeah, we can circle back. But, I mean, yeah, that’s a lot of content. Did you ever think of maybe it’s just because you had these other sketch shows in mind? Was it always going to be kind of like, an like an ensemble piece?

00:16:10:50 – 00:16:35:24
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah. When I started writing and I started thinking about doing it, one of the things that appealed about it was that it was a continuous story. And, you know, I hadn’t done that. And I thought that at the time, podcasts were starting to do that more, the, I mean, I can’t think of the, the crazy one.

00:16:35:29 – 00:16:40:46
Geoffrey Welchman
Welcome to something. What was it called? Oh, welcome to,

00:16:40:50 – 00:16:41:53
Agent Palmer
I’m not going to blanket.

00:16:41:53 – 00:17:07:31
Geoffrey Welchman
Well, okay. At any rate, there were some podcasts that were doing continuous stories or, short stories and stuff like that that I thought were interesting. So, and again, I once I started writing that was that’s really kind of the most fun, apart from finally editing it and putting it together. For me, performing it is is great and well, anyway, to take a step back.

00:17:07:31 – 00:17:31:08
Geoffrey Welchman
So I envisioned it as a continuous story with a small a smallish cast like what you’re talking about. Like four people I could count on would have been great. And when I started to write it and started to talk to some people, there was one guy in particular who I kind of envisioned us doing it together and him doing a fair share of the voices I was doing.

00:17:31:08 – 00:17:51:55
Geoffrey Welchman
I don’t know, I did like 5 or 6 or something in the finished product. I don’t actually know. But of course, when I did the draft of the show, I would do all the parts. I would read the script and do all the parts and kind of time it out so that I knew, you know, how things would fit together.

00:17:51:59 – 00:18:19:27
Geoffrey Welchman
Then I would send the scripts and or I would have somebody over like, the woman, Catherine, who did, the voice of, of the the ingenue Griselda, she came and basically read parts for like 3 or 4 shows that she was in at one time because I, I just wanted to budget things, and I always had her in mind for that.

00:18:19:27 – 00:18:42:55
Geoffrey Welchman
And, you know, whatever other female parts I could convince her to do because I really liked, I just liked the way she she did it. She’d been on in first delirium once or twice, and I thought she did a great job. And she did accents well, too. So. But but there were other, podcast friends like Monica Hamburg, who you may know through podcasting, Twitter, whatever.

00:18:43:00 – 00:19:04:13
Geoffrey Welchman
And, Mark Hirschhorn, of course, who had been really, really supportive of Inverse delirium with his show, succotash. He had been on Inverse Delirium as well, a couple of times. And so it was people like that that I knew and liked and sort of they seemed to appreciate my humor and, and the scripts that I’d shown them.

00:19:04:13 – 00:19:29:34
Geoffrey Welchman
So they were the people I turned to when I needed, like one extra voice or one solid voice person to do. You know what I thought was a good part? You know, that kind of thing. So, yeah, Grant ended up being on it. And, in fact, Jason was I intended to have him on the show, too, Ginger, you know, but it just never worked out.

00:19:29:34 – 00:19:36:59
Geoffrey Welchman
And then I stopped because I was exhausted again. And as I say, I changed jobs, and I just I just didn’t have the time.

00:19:37:04 – 00:20:01:10
Agent Palmer
I like I mean, spoiler alert, I mean, I’m going to. Yeah, tout the fact that everybody should go listen to this, but it’s nine episodes and you end, you end abruptly, which you but you do it in a way like you. You break the fourth wall throughout the entire process of this show anyway. Yeah. So the way you ended is really good.

00:20:01:15 – 00:20:14:14
Agent Palmer
But like, and I’m sure I know you’ve gotten this from me a lot on Twitter and I’m going to ask it once during this show and leave it alone. But like, is there ever going to be any more? I.

00:20:14:19 – 00:20:39:33
Geoffrey Welchman
I don’t think so. I really don’t I, I can’t imagine, you know, if, if 10,000 people suddenly want to hear the Raving Lunatic series, then sure, maybe I do one more or something, but but I mean, it just my head isn’t sort of there anymore. I’ve been more involved in music lately, to be honest, so it would. It would know.

00:20:39:33 – 00:20:41:58
Geoffrey Welchman
Well, I guess that’s a word.

00:20:42:02 – 00:21:08:31
Agent Palmer
I mean, listen, your head was very ahead of the time you were ahead of the curve. And I can understand why not only your head’s not there, but like, there’s a bit of satire in, in, in this series, but you know, you’re talking about gender equality, you’re talking about taxes and you’re talking about a wall. Yeah. Throughout a good portion of it.

00:21:08:36 – 00:21:16:39
Agent Palmer
Well, before any of the current state of the, political climate in the United States right now. So it’s.

00:21:16:39 – 00:21:17:58
Geoffrey Welchman
True. Yeah. It’s yeah.

00:21:18:02 – 00:21:31:26
Agent Palmer
I mean, listening to it, I just go like, well, I mean, somebody’s hearing this for the first time in 2019 or even 2020 could go. Well, this is in response to. Right.

00:21:31:31 – 00:21:32:04
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah.

00:21:32:04 – 00:22:00:18
Agent Palmer
But it’s not. Oh you’re I mean it’s so right there. But I mean, and this is the thing that if you listen to any satirist and even comedians right now, just because of the craziness of the world, comedy and satire are hard because, yeah, any ridiculousness you can come up with has to be crazier, so to speak, but within reason then what the headlines say and.

00:22:00:23 – 00:22:04:01
Agent Palmer
That’s a tight race these days. That’s not. Yeah.

00:22:04:06 – 00:22:35:51
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah. Well I mean that’s sure. And I’m happy to address that actually because I did start writing it before Trump, you know, announced that he was going to be running for president. I mean, he he flirted so long over such a long period of time with, with running and stuff like that. But I think he declared in 2015, and I’d certainly been writing the I, you know, I did hit on this idea of a ground border wall.

00:22:35:56 – 00:23:07:00
Geoffrey Welchman
And then he was running, and then he was talking about a wall all the time. And so when I was putting them out, I did, you know, mostly I only just sort of publicized on Twitter and Facebook. Basically, I did sort of hint that I this show was about a, a mad king who wanted to build a wall around this kingdom, you know, and so the parallel was there, but I, I certainly didn’t start out with the idea of satirizing Trump at all, or any leader, really.

00:23:07:00 – 00:23:14:21
Geoffrey Welchman
It was just like, you know, a funny character idea that I thought could stretch, could stretch into a few episodes.

00:23:14:33 – 00:23:24:02
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, I think a it works. Before we go back to the question of why audio, I want to talk to you about breaking the fourth wall.

00:23:24:07 – 00:23:24:47
Geoffrey Welchman

00:23:24:52 – 00:23:38:09
Agent Palmer
It didn’t happen that often in Python. It was more like a nod to the camera, which obviously is not something you can do in audio. But did the, you know, The Goon Show, the Goon Show?

00:23:38:19 – 00:23:38:50
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh, yeah.

00:23:38:52 – 00:23:39:40
Agent Palmer
Like, did they.

00:23:39:40 – 00:23:40:09
Geoffrey Welchman
The Goon Show.

00:23:40:16 – 00:23:46:06
Agent Palmer
Did they break the fourth wall, like, I mean, or is this just you’ve picked this up on other things?

00:23:46:11 – 00:24:26:13
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah. No, no, that was a very, very much a Goon Show thing. Okay. That they were constantly addressing the listener, you know, directly with, with information about the story and then stepping outside it and making a joke and coming back in. And that’s I mean, yeah, that’s the biggest inspiration that it was very much a radio show with a radio rules about, you know, the logic of the situation there in which being completely auditory, you know, you can just bend all sorts of rules that you cannot bend when there’s a visual happening, you know?

00:24:26:13 – 00:24:41:45
Geoffrey Welchman
And so that was really attractive to me. Monty Python also did and I’m sorry, I say Monty Python out of habit. I know it’s Python in America and I am American. I did grow up here, but, to have it, I just say some things a little.

00:24:41:50 – 00:24:55:32
Agent Palmer
I mean, listen it to me, it’s Monty Python because I, I remember same as almost anybody from certain generations. Like on PBS on Saturday night, it was Monty Python’s Flying Circus.

00:24:55:37 – 00:25:23:01
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and. Oh. But the the other thing about them is that they did, record albums, you know, long players that were the way I heard some of the sketches, first, because they released, they released them, constantly, actually, they’re 3 or 4 really, really good records where they, they, the first one wasn’t so great.

00:25:23:01 – 00:25:48:48
Geoffrey Welchman
The second one was better. The third, when they’re really getting into the the possibilities of sound, and they’re doing sketches strictly for the records that never show up on the show because they’re audio based, you know, the gags or or sound effects or whatever they are. And, so, I mean, that’s something that Python fans should really seek out because the shows are amazing, the TV shows great, the movies are great.

00:25:48:52 – 00:26:14:14
Geoffrey Welchman
I’m, I’m, I basically been obsessed with them for forever. I would throw in a couple of others though, you know, for old comedy fans, the Firesign Theater was kind of like an American Monty Python, but they started in radio and they did LPs. They did albums, during the late 60s and 70s, very far out, very, very surreal, very absurd.

00:26:14:19 – 00:26:29:25
Geoffrey Welchman
But very American too. So, so kind of a different flavor. But they were influenced by The Goon Show as well, along with, you know, American radio comedy Jack Benny, whatever came, that kind of thing. And then, of course, Mr. Show, I’m sure you’re.

00:26:29:27 – 00:26:30:07
Agent Palmer
Yep.

00:26:30:12 – 00:26:56:48
Geoffrey Welchman
A fan of that. Right. Mr. show was like the closest thing I think America ever came to a monty Python type show where the sketches weaved together. They didn’t necessarily, you know, it didn’t follow, but somehow it it it just felt like it flowed, you know, and they were very silly. So. Yeah. Wow. That’s a video show. I definitely feel like they were an inspiration as well.

00:26:56:52 – 00:27:15:57
Geoffrey Welchman
So the fact that I, I did sort of grow up hearing this very influential British comedy in radio form and audio form from albums I was I was a big Bill Cosby album listener. Oh, maybe I shouldn’t say that anymore, but unmistakably was.

00:27:15:58 – 00:27:23:37
Agent Palmer
At the time. I mean, he was huge. Huge. What’s the the there’s the one with his brother in the title. My,

00:27:23:42 – 00:27:26:13
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh, to Russell, my brother, who I slept with. Yeah.

00:27:26:13 – 00:27:45:15
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I mean that. Yeah, I still have that album. I mean, because there are things on that album that just are, I mean, it’s it’s so odd, and I, I don’t have a problem talking about it because I have no problem separating the man from the art. But yeah.

00:27:45:15 – 00:28:09:26
Geoffrey Welchman
I do certainly. I mean, I, I do have that problem with him now and, and now I mean, for quite a while, but. And Woody Allen, I, you know, for instance, I, I, I have trouble. I mean, I can’t really go back and listen although. Yeah, they were they were a huge thing to me. I listened to those albums over and over when I was a kid.

00:28:09:26 – 00:28:13:29
Geoffrey Welchman
And, and so anyway, so yeah, I’m not crazy.

00:28:13:29 – 00:28:30:19
Agent Palmer
But I was going to ask was though, did you get into some of the harder stuff? Because if Cosby’s over here is more of like a, a general comedian. Pryor. Is oh yeah, a different thing. But you were just, like a comedy fiend at that point. Like it was. Oh, yeah. Everything.

00:28:30:19 – 00:28:53:42
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah, I, I went through a phase, and when I was living in New York in my 20s, where I was trying to be a musician, I was trying to do rock music and bands and stuff, but I was also collecting standup comedy albums, all sorts of stuff. Dick Gregory, Godfrey Cambridge, Richard Pryor, of course. Some Carlin, I was a huge Robert Klein fan.

00:28:53:47 – 00:29:22:25
Geoffrey Welchman
So those albums were a big deal to me, as far as, you know, consuming comedy to the point where I actually almost prefer listening to a comedy album over seeing a comedian live. I mean, I, I like seeing comedians live and I’ve seen some, some great comedians, I’ve seen Lewis Black, I’ve seen Patton Oswalt and, Gary Gulman and all sorts of people.

00:29:22:30 – 00:30:04:24
Geoffrey Welchman
Paula Poundstone, she’s she’s amazing, all sorts of folks. But somehow, from all those years of listening, I kind of trained myself to listen to audio. It’s a comedy. So audio comedy podcast, it all sort of made sense. I mean, when I first started The Inverse Delirium, I realized that, logic, you know, which is, kind of souped up version of GarageBand on the Mac, the program that a lot of people, you know, start recording with, had all these sound effects in it, and I just suddenly thought, well, I could do my own gun show or I, you know, a Python kind of sketch.

00:30:04:29 – 00:30:39:04
Geoffrey Welchman
And I just started from there. I wrote a sketch about, a team of, biologists following, a part of, of walruses, and they try to provoke a response, and they throw a grenade in the walruses, pick up machine guns and start firing back and and it was it was, you know, sort of intended to be like a cross between an embedded, journalist in, like, Iraq or something, which was still, kind of a thing and a nature documentary team story.

00:30:39:04 – 00:31:01:53
Geoffrey Welchman
So and that’s sort of where I jumped off from, you know, very sort of Python, very Python, sketch. And then suddenly I was, I was writing stuff and, you know, starting to meet people in Baltimore to say, hey, you’re the president of the Baltimore Bird Club. I have this sketch. I wonder if you wouldn’t mind reading.

00:31:01:58 – 00:31:29:16
Geoffrey Welchman
I did that with with this woman, the president of the Baltimore Bird Club or former president at the, and, and she agreed, and she came over to my house and she read the script for me, and she played her part and, you know, it must have seemed really odd at the time because nobody really podcasting, I wouldn’t say nobody knows, knew what podcasts were in 2010, but, you know, it was not what it is now.

00:31:29:16 – 00:31:36:46
Geoffrey Welchman
Certainly it’s not what it was even 2 or 3 years ago where it really kind of blew up with cereal and stuff.

00:31:36:46 – 00:32:00:36
Agent Palmer
Where where’s your background in all of this? Right. Like I get the inspiration. I understand that, you know, writing is is one thing, but saying, you know, even even for, like in verse delirium, like, where’s the, you know, did you have a technical background in any of this or was it. Well, that seems like something I want to do.

00:32:00:41 – 00:32:29:39
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh. Okay. That’s well, the background is is music really I, I was seriously trying to be a music in a very, haphazard kind of way in New York. And, even after that, when I moved to Baltimore in 2001, I was here. I was playing locally and recording myself, playing guitar and bass and drums and things like that.

00:32:29:43 – 00:32:54:39
Geoffrey Welchman
I put out a couple of CD’s. Nothing really happened. And, I ended up having this conversation with myself where I realized that, my singing voice has always been kind of a stumbling block, like, I can carry a tune, but I don’t have a voice that makes people go, oh, yeah, you know, and, some people like my voice as singing.

00:32:54:39 – 00:33:21:40
Geoffrey Welchman
Some people just really don’t care for it. So whereas I realized that I’ve always gotten compliments on my speaking voice, people have always told me if I’m on the phone or something, people would just say, wow, your voice is really soothing or relaxing or whatever. And so and, and I had started to do narration for my job where I produce e-learning, basically.

00:33:21:45 – 00:33:28:13
Geoffrey Welchman
I would narrate that stuff and people really responded well to it. So I started to think, you know.

00:33:29:17 – 00:33:48:36
Geoffrey Welchman
A friend of mine had taught to get me hooked on podcasting and to start one, because I used to send her tape letters back in college and, and, you know, I would I would actually take a tape recorder around with me and sort of try and get people to talk on it and try to make it funny and stuff like this.

00:33:48:36 – 00:34:31:08
Geoffrey Welchman
So she had said, you should do podcasting and and with that focus on narration and all the good feedback I’d gotten, I thought, okay, I will do this, I will do something with my speaking voice and I will try this. And so that’s what happened. And then after Inverse Delirium, the branding lunatic was like kind of a really sort of personal thing for me because of, you know, my childhood and my, my dad’s sense of humor, being very big thing in the family is the kind of thing that, that I sort of thought would make my sister laugh was, was what I was doing with the ranting lunatic.

00:34:31:13 – 00:34:35:03
Geoffrey Welchman
And, and it just had to be audio as a result.

00:34:35:03 – 00:35:09:17
Agent Palmer
I really liked the idea because. So I my short story into podcasting is that I hung around, I guessed it a lot, and I finally started my own show. But the longer story is very is a little bit, more similar to yours in that, you know, I went from playing saxophone in the band in middle and high school, and then you pick up, well, I picked up a bass, and then I picked up a guitar, and then it was the, middle or late 90s.

00:35:09:17 – 00:35:21:26
Agent Palmer
And, you know, I’m in a couple bands, so I’m the guy who’s like, well, I’ll buy the what was at the time a Tascam eight track port, a studio.

00:35:21:31 – 00:35:22:54
Geoffrey Welchman
I was sure.

00:35:22:59 – 00:35:24:10
Agent Palmer
And somehow.

00:35:24:10 – 00:35:24:30
Geoffrey Welchman
Well.

00:35:24:30 – 00:35:47:03
Agent Palmer
Somehow I also ended up with a four track mini portable porta studio. Yeah, I have no idea where either of them are to this day, and I’m thankful for that because while I do still have cassette tapes, you need I don’t remember what speed the Porta studio recorded at, but it recorded slowed down for when you were moving tracks around and stuff.

00:35:47:13 – 00:36:11:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but sure. But what it means is in the long game, because then, to continue the story a little bit in college, I was in a two man band. I was Jason as a singer and guitarist, and my roommate Jason was the drummer. And we didn’t go by the two Jason’s because we played like a whole five times on campus.

00:36:11:30 – 00:36:43:02
Agent Palmer
And that was. Yeah. But in our dorm room, we had everything set up like, like permanent band practice. But when you fast forward to when I start getting around podcasts again, I’m not afraid of a microphone. I. I’m sang into one. I’m used to it. That’s fine. The the ability to mix a board. Now, I mean, a few things aside from the port studio is like I did some sound crew with, you know, you know, plays and stuff in high school and college, but writing a board is also not intimidating.

00:36:43:02 – 00:37:09:03
Agent Palmer
So now the two things outside of the actual recording and editing are no longer worries to me, because I’m comfortable around a microphone and I know how to write a board. And then when you factor in that. My college senior project was a one hour radio play. That I wrote, recorded. I put some music behind it.

00:37:09:03 – 00:37:31:41
Agent Palmer
It was very I was aiming for like A Prairie Home Companion storytelling kind of a deal. Yeah, it I mean, he never really did it for an hour. But, I mean, I had to do something grandiose if I was going to graduate from college. So one hour, you know, so I, I’ve got all this weird skill set in the back of my head that.

00:37:31:46 – 00:37:38:36
Agent Palmer
Now, when I tell you that on a podcast, it makes sense. It’s like, oh, well, this is kind of works out, right?

00:37:38:36 – 00:37:39:26
Geoffrey Welchman
But right.

00:37:39:26 – 00:38:15:14
Agent Palmer
Until podcasting comes around, all of that stuff beforehand just means if I show up at a local theater that I can run their soundboard, it doesn’t mean anything else, and you’re not comfortable with anything. And so one of the more ironic things when I finally got back into podcasting was like, wait, people still use audacity? Like in in 2004, the spring of 2004, when I’m editing my, final senior project in college, I’m using audacity.

00:38:15:18 – 00:38:41:57
Agent Palmer
And then I pulled it up to look at it, you know, a decade late and it hasn’t changed a bit. I still can do it, like, easy. And it’s just. All right, this makes sense. I got this, Yeah, but it. I understand how the music side comes because I still pick up my guitar noodle around, but you will very rarely hear me sing because I just don’t have that kind of a voice.

00:38:41:57 – 00:38:53:08
Agent Palmer
And if I ever did, it is now gone. Like, I don’t even think I sound as good as I used to. And if you don’t think you sound good, you don’t sound good.

00:38:53:13 – 00:39:32:35
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah, yeah. That’s true. I mean, what I can do is harmonize and what I, I should have realized that. But I just liked singing anyway, so. And I wrote the songs and actually that’s kind of the preparation too, because when I started doing sketches, I, I understood layers because I had recorded myself playing, you know, a band’s worth of instruments and working out the arrangements so that it sounds like a band means you’re you’re working with layers, you know, you’re working with parts and timing and it was strange.

00:39:32:40 – 00:40:03:13
Geoffrey Welchman
I didn’t have any problem with the transition, because once I wrote that sketch about the walruses and stuff, I started to put together, I went for sound effects. I, I went through what was already available in logic. This, the software I use on the Mac and and of course, I was familiar with microphones as recording myself and all that stuff so very similar to what you’re saying, but also arranging a sketch so that it sounded like something.

00:40:03:17 – 00:40:25:21
Geoffrey Welchman
I mean, I went to this, sound effects library on the called Sound Dogs. They do stuff for the pros. That’s that stuff that’s out there on the web. You can you can buy sound effects there. And I remember one comment in particular that I just loved was some some podcaster said, it’s like listening to a movie, which was kind of what I was going for.

00:40:25:21 – 00:40:57:03
Geoffrey Welchman
I wanted stuff to sound good enough that you you could relax and just trust that, you know, okay, this does sound like, you know, a sketch in an auto shop, for instance. Not that I did one, but, just as an example, it sounded right, you know, and then the voices, whether it was me doing, you know, the host and another person doing a voice, that’s sort of the general setup, just that the background sounded right, that if there was music, that it was balanced.

00:40:57:03 – 00:41:18:03
Geoffrey Welchman
Right. Because so many podcasts frustrated me as somebody who was really into audio for being so poorly done, you know, even podcasts that I liked, for instance, weren’t, you know, recorded with an audio files, you know, a real audio guys kind of audio nerd is what I mean.

00:41:18:07 – 00:41:33:29
Agent Palmer
It’s funny too, because that’s something where, I mean, I like to say producer yeah. Because that’s it’s very much someone who’s going to, you know, step back, take a look at the full process and give you a direction on the end result.

00:41:33:33 – 00:41:34:54
Geoffrey Welchman
But yeah.

00:41:34:59 – 00:42:05:25
Agent Palmer
I can hear the difference between, and every, you know, listen, in podcasting, everybody’s a hobbyist, right? I mean, even the big guys, whoever those are, do other things. They do live performances, you know. Oh, yeah. Marin hasn’t stopped being an actor or doing stand up, you know, Rogan is still doing other things, right? So it is still a hobby, even if it’s your a main source of income.

00:42:05:25 – 00:42:08:00
Agent Palmer
It’s most people need to do something else.

00:42:08:05 – 00:42:10:23
Geoffrey Welchman
But oh yeah, I can hear.

00:42:10:23 – 00:42:36:14
Agent Palmer
Yeah. When somebody’s taking pride in the product. Right. Because it’s more than just hitting record and talking into a microphone, because if it was that simple, everyone could do it well. And I feel like that’s the difference because not everybody can do it well. You need to be able to edit you even within a little bit. Like, yeah, you don’t have to edit.

00:42:36:14 – 00:42:52:07
Agent Palmer
So like every is gone every like every so like you don’t have to do that. But there are ways to edit out sound noise. So that way the silence in between your pauses is actually dead silence and not your cat purring next to you.

00:42:52:12 – 00:43:21:56
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah. And that was the kind of detail I was. I was after, because, I mean, I started to understand, you know, how to record my voice better, what microphones were, you know, really capable of because I got better microphones, basically. So the sound was good. The, the sort of the sound, I mean, I was doing sound design. I didn’t realize it until I was three years in when I started to hear that term.

00:43:22:01 – 00:44:03:20
Geoffrey Welchman
That’s kind of what I was doing. I was I was kind of like, really one of the happiest things about working in audio is the amount of control I had because I was writing scripts and asking people to to really do what I was asking them to do, you know, rather than do an interview show, which really had been kind of an inspiration with, with podcasting because when I was, when I decided to start, when I was mainly listening to three podcasts, it was Maron’s show, of course, Kevin Pollack’s show, which was his chat show, which was an interview thing.

00:44:03:24 – 00:44:27:15
Geoffrey Welchman
And then, Doug loves movies. I mean, that was those were the things that I was listening to. And yet I really strongly felt like I want to go for sketch comedy. I want to do it clean. That was a decision I made right at the start, purely just because I thought more people, you know, meant that is, more people who might be open to it meant, you know, a a larger possible audience.

00:44:27:19 – 00:44:52:23
Geoffrey Welchman
And it ended up being kind of a good thing because I would I had a line that I sort of couldn’t cross, but I couldn’t help but try, you know, just sort of play with the line so that I wasn’t actually using swearing. But sometimes I’d throw something in just very sort of mild but mildly racy or whatever it was.

00:44:52:28 – 00:44:54:54
Geoffrey Welchman
It was a good sort of discipline, actually.

00:44:55:01 – 00:45:16:07
Agent Palmer
And it speaks to the art of a blank canvas. Right. Like if I tell you to draw a face, it’s. I’m not telling you what face. Who what where, you know, I mean, you could give me the face of a coin. It doesn’t matter. You can play with that. Right? But it’s a lot easier if I give you a blank canvas and say, draw a face.

00:45:16:07 – 00:45:41:59
Agent Palmer
Then if I give you a blank canvas and say, draw something. Yeah. And there is an extent to which art becomes contrived if there’s too many rules and too many standards, but a few almost give you more to work with because it’s just, well, now I don’t have to worry about that. Like it’s, you know, because my blog is the same way.

00:45:42:08 – 00:46:05:18
Agent Palmer
When I figured out when the light bulb went off and I went, if I come up with a schedule and I have to write about Transformers on Thursday, then I can just sit down on Thursday and write about Transformers as opposed to I have a post on Thursday and then sitting down on Thursday and going, oh, what do I write about?

00:46:05:18 – 00:46:39:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And then after I decide what I’m going to write about, I actually have to write about it. So taking one of those steps out was a huge benefit. And I feel like the other thing is, especially when it comes to explicit write, you get to challenge yourself to see how close to the line you can get, which is, I mean, we’re not all that hyper competitive externally, but I feel like a lot of us, especially like artists, are extremely competitive within our own heads.

00:46:39:12 – 00:47:02:24
Agent Palmer
So it’s like, oh, I did that, but can I can I do that better this time? And so it makes the process of creation, a little bit more fulfilling. And a little bit more stimulating because otherwise it can get a little stale. And I mean, listen, you did nine episodes and I’m pretty sure it didn’t get stale for you.

00:47:02:29 – 00:47:40:43
Geoffrey Welchman
Not stale. No. Although I wouldn’t say I’m totally thrilled with every episode. I think there were a couple that weren’t as strong, but I think you’re, you know, what you’re saying is makes perfect sense because, like, with rounding lunatic. I just started out with a few rules and it was it was set in medieval times, but they had Wi-Fi, you know, so I it didn’t make any sense, but I just thought it would be funny to throw in some very current things like Wi-Fi and,

00:47:40:58 – 00:47:52:49
Agent Palmer
There’s an iPod. I mean, because I recognized that there were, you know, it was, medieval plus almost. Right. It’s medieval. It’s like a few modern things.

00:47:52:53 – 00:48:23:02
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah. I mean, because I wasn’t really, I’m not a I’m not a medieval scholar, and I didn’t really want to do tons of research. But I figured I knew enough to sort of get by. And then I just liked the idea of throwing in. Yeah. Whether it was an iPod or, just a couple of sort of current references that would that would break it up and I hoped would, you know, sort of be funny basically.

00:48:23:02 – 00:48:23:17
Geoffrey Welchman
I mean.

00:48:23:26 – 00:48:46:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I mean they definitely played a laughs. I mean, the other thing and I’m glad we’re back to raining lunatic because I did want to ask like there’s puns but you don’t go like over the top with the puns. Like there’s, there’s a fine line that you somehow don’t manage to cross with all thank you puns.

00:48:46:23 – 00:48:54:30
Geoffrey Welchman
That’s very generous of you, because I’m not sure I did. Didn’t do too many I got. Yeah, I did puns just seemed to present themselves.

00:48:54:30 – 00:49:03:30
Agent Palmer
It’s you know what they beget themselves. It’s it. Once you start, it’s really hard to stop.

00:49:03:35 – 00:49:04:41
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah.

00:49:04:45 – 00:49:29:31
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but I, I want to take a left turn for a moment, and I want to talk about music with you. We we talked about comedy and and and radio, but, I mean, music’s a big part of I see, on Twitter that you’re out doing gigs and playing again. But, you know, what’s the first, inspire passion for picking up an instrument and and what was it?

00:49:29:36 – 00:50:01:57
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh, the Beatles I was I was born in 64, and that’s the year that they arrived in the States. By the time I was four, I was already a huge Beatles fan. And, was was playing Sergeant Pepper and and Magical Mystery Tour on a, you know, one of those old not quite close and play record players that everybody had a record player and they were it for me for a long time.

00:50:02:02 – 00:50:26:15
Geoffrey Welchman
You know, eventually I started to get into all sorts of music. Whether it’s reggae or old Delta blues, which was a big thing for me, you know, rock, funk, punk, new wave, reggae, all sorts of stuff. But it all started with, with me listening to the Beatles and wanting to be a Beatle. That was that was the.

00:50:26:15 – 00:50:53:49
Agent Palmer
How do you how do you get the influence? Like, I mean, I, I’ve talked on other podcasts, about how lucky I am to be living within a close proximity to New York and Philly because I get exponentially more radio stations. Right? So, you know, I get all these stations out of New York, I get all these stations out of Philly, I get my local stations.

00:50:53:54 – 00:51:09:27
Agent Palmer
Right. I mean, obviously that’s more now than it was then. Like, are we talking older brothers and older siblings or, you know, was there a local record store? Because, I mean, you’re getting everything.

00:51:09:31 – 00:51:44:10
Geoffrey Welchman
Well, when I was young, my dad being a British guy who became an American citizen, he, I think the Beatles were, were a big, big novelty that seemed like, hey, this is a great British thing that’s taking over America, which just didn’t happen. You know, a British rock band. It was all kind of weird, initially that, it took off the way they did for them, because they were basically bringing rock and blues, you know, back to the States.

00:51:44:10 – 00:52:16:57
Geoffrey Welchman
I mean, that’s been said many times, them in the stones and a lot of these, groups that were inspired by the blues as I was, too. I mean, the acoustic blues was, was a big thing for me. Yeah, mainly it was records, because there weren’t a lot of great, great radio stations there back then. I listened to pop radio when I was a kid, but really, when I was in high school, that’s when I started listening to a Brown University’s radio station.

00:52:16:57 – 00:52:41:41
Geoffrey Welchman
And that’s when college radio really started to be a thing in the, in the 80s. I was listening to a lot of that’s how I found out about a lot of the music. You know, U2, them arriving in the States. I heard their first concert because it was done in Providence, Rhode Island. And that was where this, Brown radio was, was coming from.

00:52:41:46 – 00:53:06:21
Geoffrey Welchman
So that’s how I found a lot of the sort of new wave punk stuff that I listened to before that. It was albums I read, you know, rolling Stone and relics magazines when I could get Ahold of them. And I read reviews religiously, which, was ironic because I ended up writing album reviews myself for, for magazines years later.

00:53:06:26 – 00:53:51:04
Geoffrey Welchman
Along side doing gigs, in New York, I started writing and that just kind of became a sideline for me, along with my my regular day job. And it was nice because I made some money that way, but it was also sort of confusing because I was getting published, but, you know, and sort of getting published and, and, well, people and rolling Stone and, and, musician magazine, I mean, just reviews and stuff, but still, I was getting published while my music career was not really going anywhere past the playing gigs at, at local local places, CBGB’s and whatnot.

00:53:51:04 – 00:54:02:35
Agent Palmer
And what are you playing? Give me the if there is one, like a trajectory of you pick up the instruments. An instrument and then what music are you playing?

00:54:02:40 – 00:54:27:13
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh, okay. Well, I, I it’s mainly acoustic guitar is sort of where I start. And then when I start playing in bands, I actually played bass mostly. And so when I got out of college, I went through a time of playing in the folk club called Folk City a lot, and, that sort of I got as far as I could.

00:54:27:18 – 00:54:51:47
Geoffrey Welchman
And the booker basically said, hey, you know, you should really be in a rock band because I was a little too rocky for this folk acoustic club, and I was so mad at him for saying that, that I went and started a band and so I started playing at places like CBGB’s and, downtown Beirut and all sorts of awful clubs and, Manhattan.

00:54:51:47 – 00:55:24:17
Geoffrey Welchman
And, was playing kind of, kind of new Wavey stuff. And that ended up being kind of a dance band, I’d say like kind of B-52s were maybe an inspiration. Okay, not quite that kitschy, but something like a new wave dance sort of thing was what we were going for. And then that that’s when I kind of hit the road at the end of the road and, just, I was burned out.

00:55:24:21 – 00:55:35:14
Geoffrey Welchman
I’d like, been playing for six years. Seven years, solid and just feeling like at 26, all washed up, you know. Oh, God.

00:55:35:16 – 00:55:50:59
Agent Palmer
I mean, you know, it’s, what is it? Athletes and and and and musicians, you know, by 27, 28. Oh, yeah. You’re either, world champion or you’re you’re done.

00:55:51:04 – 00:56:15:32
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah. You’ve either established a career and, you know, figured out how to work the business side, which I was. I just never got past my my own sort of inflated sense of, oh, I’m an artist. I don’t I don’t know how to sell myself. I mean, I used to say shit like that, and I just, I could, I could go back and smack myself in the face.

00:56:15:36 – 00:56:45:38
Geoffrey Welchman
But, you know, a lot of people just sort of don’t make the jump into realizing this is a business. You know, if you have something that you think people want, you have to treat it like it’s a business. I mean, not that it isn’t artistic and not that it doesn’t require a lot of soul searching and that kind of thing, but just that I was so averse to actually learning about how maybe to get people to come to gigs and how to advertise or promote or stuff like that.

00:56:45:38 – 00:57:23:59
Geoffrey Welchman
I just so that was another thing when I started podcasting, just to dip back into that for a second, that I, I consciously did what I used to say no to. I mean, I promoted, I taught myself how to promote. I realized that networking wasn’t a dirty word, that that actually I was meeting through the podcast. I was I was hooking up with, you know, people like you and Ginger and, and, Grant and and son and, you know, all these cool people that were just like, nerdy guys who wanted to do a podcast like me, you know, and they were doing their things.

00:57:24:03 – 00:57:39:06
Geoffrey Welchman
And, so that was, you know, another sort of odd offshoot of my, my music career never really sort of getting anywhere. I learned by doing the opposite of what I tried to do as a musician.

00:57:39:13 – 00:58:09:01
Agent Palmer
I will say it’s one of the, curious conundrums of podcasting is that most people are willing to hit record and literally share themselves, with like, intimate, you know, like, this is who I am. And then they’ll tell all their friends to listen. But when it comes to the promotion, they always fall short. Yeah. And it’s that listen, it’s that little extra mile, right?

00:58:09:01 – 00:58:41:21
Agent Palmer
Like, listen to any, interview on any podcast of, band you love. And then listen to 12 others of different bands and they all say the same thing, right? Like we started out, it was hard. We started in clubs. I remember walking around just putting leaflets on, you know, cars and just pounding the pavement, and we’d go from city to city, keep doing that, this, that and the other thing now obviously the digital equivalent is like, well, you have to tweet about it all the time, right?

00:58:41:21 – 00:58:51:32
Agent Palmer
But you have to do that. It’s not just enough to put out good art and let it, you know, and people, you know, it’s right. It’s not Field of Dreams, you know.

00:58:51:47 – 00:59:13:20
Geoffrey Welchman
It’s the yeah, it’s the old I mean, I you know, I really was thinking that someone when I was playing in clubs in New York, that someone would walk in and discover me, you know, like Brian Epstein and the Beatles, you know. But but the lesson of the Beatles is they were so good, somebody was going to discover them.

00:59:13:20 – 00:59:25:28
Geoffrey Welchman
Somebody was going to come and say, I can. Well, I can make money off this. It’s just it’s what, what ultimately a manager would say. But I can package this. This is something that will that will interest people.

00:59:25:28 – 00:59:36:54
Agent Palmer
By the way, I want I want to tell you. So I watched I think it was it’s a Netflix documentary or maybe it’s not, but it was a documentary on Netflix called echo in the Canyon.

00:59:36:58 – 00:59:39:17
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh yeah, I just watched that and we just watched it.

00:59:39:19 – 01:00:00:14
Agent Palmer
And you talking about the Beatles and packaging is my favorite line from that. It’s the the guy from the Byrds is talking about the fact that they ran into the Beatles, and they were talking about the fact that the Byrds got to wear whatever they wanted to, and the Beatles for the longest time, especially early on, that they were wearing the same outfits.

01:00:00:14 – 01:00:20:26
Agent Palmer
They were basically wearing a uniform almost. And oh, yeah, I think it was John’s like, why do you guys get to wear whatever you want? And the guy from the Byrds is like, oh, well, before one of our television gigs, we lost our luggage. And then we never went back to wearing the same thing ever again. And I was just like, well, that’s just the oddest happenstance.

01:00:20:26 – 01:00:25:50
Agent Palmer
And it took the Beatles, like, more years to be able to wear whatever they wanted to.

01:00:25:55 – 01:00:50:08
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, in fairness, the uniform can really work. I mean, it worked for them. It worked for the Ramones. You know, just having something that distinctive as as a look that was that was a big deal. I mean, I, you know, maybe they they got sick of it. I’m sure, you know, within a couple of years.

01:00:50:13 – 01:00:56:26
Geoffrey Welchman
But when they made that change, it was, it was I don’t know how it worked for them. It is.

01:00:56:31 – 01:01:21:49
Agent Palmer
So I want to I want to focus on a little piece of this, because I’ve been getting back into Dylan and some folk, you know what got you into folk? Because, I mean, from everything you’re saying, you seem to be more of a blues rock guy, and I’m. I’m completely in a, like a folk apologist where it’s just like, well, folk is no different than blues.

01:01:21:54 – 01:01:22:26
Agent Palmer

01:01:22:35 – 01:01:54:05
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh, yeah, I was, I was very big into actually English folk mostly. But also I was a huge Pete Seeger fan. I saw him perform twice. He was just incandescent. And I was also a big fan of, British, guitarist and singer called Martin Carthy, who I also got to see live. And these, British groups that some of them he was involved with like, Fairport Convention, Steely span.

01:01:54:05 – 01:02:00:27
Geoffrey Welchman
He was in that and, the Albion Country Band. I don’t know if you’re familiar with any of that stuff.

01:02:00:32 – 01:02:03:01
Agent Palmer
Seeger’s the only name out of that I write so far.

01:02:03:01 – 01:02:04:15
Geoffrey Welchman
Okay, well.

01:02:04:20 – 01:02:06:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So I’ve got some homework to do.

01:02:06:17 – 01:02:31:39
Geoffrey Welchman
Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. If you like English and, you know, Irish stuff. Yeah. They were very big in the 70s. So. Yeah, Pete Seeger, let’s see other Americans. I mean, I met Odetta once. She, I heard, lots of people at Folk City in, in New York, lots of acoustic folks. I mean, I opened for John Hammond once.

01:02:31:44 – 01:02:56:40
Geoffrey Welchman
He was terrific. Folk was was a big interest for me. Oh. Well, I guess Peter, Paul and Mary, too. When I was younger, they were kind of them. And the Beatles were kind of what I was listening to when I learned how to play guitar. So I started with their songs a lot. A lot of it was Beatles and, where of All the Flowers Gone and stuff like that.

01:02:56:45 – 01:03:44:23
Geoffrey Welchman
So yeah, focus was a big, big part of, me learning and then blues, folk, blues. It all does sort of blend together in a, in a weird way. I mean, on a sort of spectrum, I guess you’d say. But they’re, they’re all connected because, you know, bluegrass is basically fiddle tunes from Scotland and stuff. And then, you know, blues is, is is music from Africa combined with, with some elements from, from, Mexican music, you know, like when they started to do the electric bands with the, the drums doing the, the part, you know, that’s like straight out of Mexican music, the hi hat cymbal keeping time and stuff and jazz.

01:03:44:23 – 01:03:54:38
Geoffrey Welchman
I mean, it’s, you know. So anyway, I’m not a musicologist, it’s just sort of rambling here, but but folk was a big part of it. It’s interesting that you sort of picked that out somehow.

01:03:54:45 – 01:04:29:58
Agent Palmer
It’s kind of one of those things that kind of gets it, like sitting here, like taking it all in, and it kind of puts you on a trajectory. Because the one thing that folk did, does, and will continue to do is storyteller. Yeah. And it’s kind of where you ended up. It’s almost like it kind of was like the lubricant that that sped you towards storytelling a little bit further from your goons origins of inspiration, because it’s like, well, you just got more immersed in a different kind of storytelling, like you were never going to get far away from it.

01:04:30:03 – 01:04:56:40
Geoffrey Welchman
Definitely. Yeah, that’s interesting because I mean, yeah, because even when I was was recording music and, trying to be, you know, a rock guy, I would occasionally do these little weird sketches with my friend Charles, also using, you know, Tascam for track recorders and stuff. I, I was using them and then an eight track machine that he got that was, one inch tape, I think it was one inch.

01:04:56:45 – 01:05:24:57
Geoffrey Welchman
And, yeah. So all of that stuff with, with occasionally would just do a, a silly sketchy kind of bit with funny voices and sound effects just to amuse ourselves. And so, yeah, storytelling. Songwriting, of course, was a huge thing for me to. And I think that teaches you how to write short ideas, you know, short fleshed out ideas, if that makes.

01:05:24:57 – 01:05:25:12
Geoffrey Welchman
No, it.

01:05:25:12 – 01:05:52:41
Agent Palmer
Does. I mean, I have a lot of, short and fleshed out ideas, as well. I mean, it it comes part and parcel, right? Like for for every finished product you’ve got, what, regardless of the, medium that your art is in, you’ve got hundreds of thousands of unfinished ones, and a good portion of those unfinished ones end up half started, is what I’ll call it.

01:05:52:46 – 01:06:00:23
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah. Yeah, sure. There’s there’s definitely unfinished bits lying around.

01:06:00:28 – 01:06:21:46
From The Reigning Lunatic…
So ends this chapter of the legend of the myth of the allegory of the tale, of the fable of the suck of the hand that gripped the armrest of the throne gamely.

01:06:21:50 – 01:06:48:21
Agent Palmer
Talking with Geoffrey about our respective histories and music and technology, it is easy in hindsight to say that podcasting was our destiny. But in those moments when we were young, when we were doing those things, we weren’t looking forward to talking on microphones with each other and creating podcasts. We were hoping to be rock stars, and while it’s easy to look back and see the things that we didn’t do, you have to keep your eyes forward.

01:06:48:25 – 01:07:10:17
Agent Palmer
Now, sure, this sounds very similar to the sentiment of my conversation with Tristan Boyle about knowing your history, being present, and keeping an eye on the future. But this conversation, that moment of connection between our pasts, that this is what we’re doing now and that we’re not rock stars, is what I like to see as a testament to our fortitude.

01:07:10:22 – 01:07:32:04
Agent Palmer
We didn’t get to be rock stars, but we adapted. We continued to create in other ways. And yes, Geoffrey, a little more than me. We both still pick up our instruments and play. You don’t have to give up on the things that you like or love. Utilize the inspiration that comes with those things, whatever they are, as fuel to create or accomplish something you want to do.

01:07:32:16 – 01:07:54:08
Agent Palmer
And if you end up loving it and loving the process, all the better. Now a correction in the episode in that welcome to What’s It Called was the welcome to the Night Vale podcast. Neither of us could remember it at the time of recording. So to all of you who were screaming at us, we’re sorry. And to those of you who had no idea what we were forgetting, now you know.

01:07:54:12 – 01:08:13:54
Agent Palmer
Lastly, don’t forget to reach out to the podcast whose content you enjoy. Remember, even the smallest message can go a long way. All of us who talk into the void. That’s what podcasting basically is. We enjoy hearing from those of you who listen to us. So reach out. Don’t be afraid. We’re the ones who have to hit publish.

01:08:14:03 – 01:08:34:04
Agent Palmer
You’re the ones who hit play. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode seven. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for some official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion and let me know what you think. You can tweet the podcast at The Palmer Files.

01:08:34:04 – 01:09:33:05
Agent Palmer
Myself at Agent Palmer, and reach this week’s guest, Geoffrey, at Welch Mania. The show email is The Palmer files at gmail.com. And don’t forget to visit Agent palmer.com to see what else I’ve got going on. You can also hear more of me in the meantime on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and my other gig as co-host of the podcast digest with Dan Lizette.

01:09:33:10 – 01:09:41:31
Agent Palmer
He.

01:09:41:35 – 01:09:47:21
Agent Palmer
So, Geoffrey, before we go, do you have one final question for me?

01:09:47:26 – 01:09:56:42
Geoffrey Welchman
I do, Jason, Jason, tell me, who or what is Agent Palmer?

01:09:56:47 – 01:10:05:18
Agent Palmer
So, this is my Tony Stark moment. I am Agent Palmer. No. Yes. Yes.

01:10:05:23 – 01:10:06:20
Geoffrey Welchman
What is so.

01:10:06:24 – 01:10:34:30
Agent Palmer
So when I was getting ready to start the blog, I realized that, I didn’t necessarily want to write under my name. I didn’t know what the blog was going to become. I just knew I wanted to start one, and I was like, well, what? What do I, I need a brand. And I’ve always been I’ve always been a fan of James Bond, but I didn’t want to necessarily go that direction.

01:10:34:35 – 01:10:55:02
Agent Palmer
And it had just so happened that I don’t know, I want to give credit to my mother for something in regards to Palmer, so I’m going to give her credit for this. I think my mother was explaining to me that Michael Caine, playing Austin Powers father in the movie, was funny because he used to do spy flicks in the 60s.

01:10:55:06 – 01:11:07:00
Agent Palmer
So I went back and like, I was like, well, all right, I’m I’m game for anything and it’s not bond. So it should be very interesting. And so I watch The Ipcress file.

01:11:07:04 – 01:11:08:07
Geoffrey Welchman
Okay. Which I.

01:11:08:07 – 01:11:28:05
Agent Palmer
Have nothing. And no, I watch the Chris file and then I burned through like, funeral in Berlin and Bullitt to Beijing, I think are the three movies. Now, listen, Ipcress File is, like, the best one of all of them. But he was Harry Palmer in that.

01:11:28:10 – 01:11:30:09
Geoffrey Welchman
He was Harry Palmer. Right.

01:11:30:14 – 01:11:54:38
Agent Palmer
So I was like, well, I, I can’t actually crib the name. Like, I can’t be Harry Palmer because that’s, that’s a guy played by Michael Caine. But I can be Agent Palmer. And because I’m, you know, also an Orioles fan, like, it had the nice, like, you know, you know, Jim Palmer, you know, thing because I so.

01:11:54:50 – 01:11:55:54
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah.

01:11:55:59 – 01:12:19:19
Agent Palmer
So it became a homer. He was huge, agent Palmer is what it became. And then, you know, it was like an afterthought, right? Like I was just like, all right, that’s fine. And then I started the blog, and I started writing, and, like, nobody said anything, right? I, you know, I start that, I start my Twitter at Agent Palmer and then, you know, well, of course, I’m not going to use my face because I’m not using my name.

01:12:19:19 – 01:12:46:42
Agent Palmer
So I’ll put up a picture of Michael Caine from The Ipcress File and, you know, then it’s not until Grant and seven days a week, because Grant gets the reference. He should be the one who. And I don’t know when it is, but when I first start showing up in the chat rooms for seven Days of Geeks live episodes, you’ll hear Grant not say Palmer.

01:12:46:46 – 01:12:53:55
Agent Palmer
He says Harry. Oh, at least in the very beginning, before he even knew who I really was.

01:12:54:00 – 01:13:00:11
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah, I was on one of those. Do you remember? Were you? I was on one of those live shows.

01:13:00:16 – 01:13:22:55
Agent Palmer
I was I mean, I’m going to say yes because I went back I actually went back through the seven days of geek like back catalog. So I would have heard it. But at one point, I think it was after I did the Stranger cons, grant went back to the Agent Palmer and stopped calling me Harry. But occasionally Grant will call me Harry because he was the one who got it.

01:13:22:55 – 01:13:37:51
Agent Palmer
And now you know, my Twitter now says my real name. And on this show I, you know, use my real name. And I’ve kind of started to kind of move out from behind, I mean, at some point and I.

01:13:37:56 – 01:13:38:36
Geoffrey Welchman
And your real.

01:13:38:36 – 01:14:01:06
Agent Palmer
Voice. My real voice, I mean, it’s always been my real voice, and it’s like, I guess here’s the worst kept secret about Agent Palmer. I didn’t change anything like, I, I, I didn’t pretend to like anything. I didn’t pretend to hate anything. My personality was exactly the same. All I was doing was using a pen name, I didn’t.

01:14:01:20 – 01:14:08:18
Geoffrey Welchman
Oh, that’s. Oh, that’s cool. Though, I mean, I totally get it. I thought it was something to do with the X-Files TV.

01:14:08:21 – 01:14:09:43
Agent Palmer
I know, and there’s,

01:14:09:48 – 01:14:10:22
Geoffrey Welchman
I didn’t.

01:14:10:23 – 01:14:39:49
Agent Palmer
There’s a Palmer, an Agent Palmer on NCIS that will come up in Google searches. I occasionally I rank ahead of that. If you just Google Agent Palmer. So it’s. I always go check to see, like, where I am in the rankings for, like, Agent Palmer. And that’s, basically the story, but I got to give my mother credit for explaining to me why Michael Caine was chosen as Austin Powers.

01:14:39:49 – 01:14:42:26
Geoffrey Welchman
Yeah, well, way to go, mom.

–End Transcription–

This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).