Episode 78 features the return of Sara Netzley! Still a PhD, but now also a newswriter for Entertainment Weekly and of course, still a very good friend of mine.
We discuss journalism, the internet, talk generationally, and also discuss seasonality and classroom dynamics, but know that you are getting to listen to two friends that also slip into the roles of Professor Sara and Student Palmer…
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Reporting for Entertainment Weekly
- Being in the know with entertainment news
- Magazines
- Before the internet
- #NotAllOldFolks
- Talking Generationally
- Physical photos
- Journalistic Standards
- Sourcing
- Seasonally speaking
- Back to school
- Classroom dynamics
- Talking and Talkers
- Looking for a job or to change the world
- The Pappy and MeeMaw Hour
- Commercials
- Media Recommendations
- For All Mankind
- Pachinko
- Ted Lasso
- Kim’s Convenience
- The Bear
- Kitchen Confidential
- Class is in session
- Neil Postman
- Marshall McLuhan
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:26:35
Agent Palmer
Previously on agent Palmer dot com. The mere man marries spy thrills, strange chills and more. The bear serves up drama in half sized portions. And remember, while Ty and I are on opposite sides of the A-list and Big Ten, we both love those and other sports, and that’s what brings us all together. This is The Palmer Files episode 78 with the return of Sara Netzley, still a PhD, but now also a news writer for Entertainment Weekly and of course, still a very good friend of mine.
00:00:26:49 – 00:01:13:02
Agent Palmer
We discuss journalism, the internet, talk generationally, and also discuss seasonality and classroom dynamics. But know that you are getting to listen to two friends that also slip into the roles of Professor Sara and Student Palmer. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:13:07 – 00:01:32:25
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 78th episode is Sara Netzley news writer by summer and professor. Basically always. She is still writing romance almost as often as I post blogs, and having her come back on the show turned into a lesson that I’m eager to learn more about.
00:01:32:34 – 00:01:55:14
Agent Palmer
As you’ll soon hear, we talk about her return to news, writing of late, and how it will help her in the classroom, as well as the pre-internet days, which may or may not dovetail into the Pappy and Meemaw Hour. You can guess who is who, as well as some show recommendations, reading recommendations and lessons in media from Sara to me in a really awesome Tudor kind of way about Neil Postman and Marshall McLuhan.
00:01:55:19 – 00:02:20:03
Agent Palmer
If you know who those people are, you’re in for a treat. And if you don’t, you’re in for a lesson. All of that and a whole lot more is coming your way shortly. But first, if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest, Professor Sara Netzley at Sara Netzley, that’s Sara Annett, Zee Lee, or at Sara Whitney underscore and this show at the Palmer Files.
00:02:20:08 – 00:02:48:42
Agent Palmer
You can find more information about Sara professionally at Sara. Net slate.com. Or as an award winning author at Sara whitney.com. That’s why. And why don’t forget you can see all of my writings and writings on Agent palmer.com. And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado. Class is about to be in session.
00:02:48:47 – 00:03:00:52
Agent Palmer
Sara. Welcome back. You’ve been busy doing more than just recapping for now. Now, your report for E.W.. I mean, reporting new news.
00:03:01:01 – 00:03:06:23
Sara Netzley
News writing, news writing is what I’m doing. Hello. Thanks for having me back. It’s great to great to see your face.
00:03:06:28 – 00:03:12:55
Agent Palmer
More than just, Hey, this is what happened this week on such and such.
00:03:13:00 – 00:03:42:21
Sara Netzley
Yeah, I just, I, they were looking for people to to fill in and just do, you know, a couple hours here to cover any news that might pop up, and I just was available and willing and pretty flexible with my schedule. And I guess also an okay writer. And so I just have sort of kept coming back, and I have kind of a regular day that I’ve been working this summer for them and filling in when they need me, and school starting soon as you and I are speaking.
00:03:42:26 – 00:04:00:47
Sara Netzley
So that’s going to have to taper back a little bit, but yeah, it is. I have that has called police departments around the country to say, hey, this is Sara. Natalie, I’m a reporter with Entertainment Weekly. I’m trying to find information about this arrest or this death or this incident that’s being investigated. And it’s just it’s so wild to to.
00:04:00:52 – 00:04:15:00
Sara Netzley
I haven’t been a reporter in a long time. I’ve been a professor. I was a reporter way before I got my PhD and got into the classroom. So to spend the summer actually doing a little bit of. And what was your name and how do you spell that? And if I have follow up questions, where can I reach you?
00:04:15:00 – 00:04:29:15
Sara Netzley
It’s it’s I am excited to be back in the classroom this fall. I it’s always nice to be back in the classroom, but, especially so because I am going to have more stories and I am going to have more, you know, ethically. Here’s what I had to decide with this. What would you have done? Here’s what I did.
00:04:29:15 – 00:04:59:27
Sara Netzley
Or how would you write this week? So it’s the but, you know, we talked about did we want to talk entertainment or education. And I guess I’m immediately launching into both. One of the things that that educators like to do is bring experience, experiential issues into the classroom. Right. And so this is such a great way to connect the work I’m doing this summer, this hands on professional work I’m doing into my education and my pedagogy and, use it as examples, use it as exercises, use it as teaching tools.
00:04:59:27 – 00:05:19:57
Sara Netzley
And I think that’s so cool that those two things work so well together that that I’m having this, this great, fun opportunity to write for UW the way that I have been, and then also to get to benefit and say, here’s how I handled this, or here is what this would look like. Or you take this and rewrite it, here’s what you did, here’s what I did, or here’s what this other writer did, and here’s how we can talk about it.
00:05:19:57 – 00:05:21:40
Sara Netzley
So that’s that’s really cool for me.
00:05:21:43 – 00:05:49:27
Agent Palmer
How okay, so recapping is, you know, I know that you don’t always get a choice in show, but when it comes to news, how up are you on entertainment news in general? Like before, you know, you were you raised your hand and you were like, yeah, I’ll do this. You know, were you the person that like, like because when I see a name trending on Twitter, I don’t click on it.
00:05:49:41 – 00:05:56:14
Agent Palmer
I’m like, whatever. I mean, if if it really affects me, I’ll. Somebody will tell me.
00:05:56:18 – 00:06:13:29
Sara Netzley
You know, it’s funny, ironically, I used to be very, very up on entertainment news because I read Entertainment Weekly, like from from 1995 on, I was a subscriber, and that’s how I got before the internet. That’s how I knew what movies were coming out or what TV shows were going to premiere in the fall that I might want to read or might want to watch.
00:06:13:34 – 00:06:31:40
Sara Netzley
And so I was the one that sort of made me pop culturally literate. In those early, pre-internet days. Children. There was a time listener. Listen, there was a time when you could not just Google it, when you had to actually go to a phone book or, you know, let let the old lady, I.
00:06:31:40 – 00:06:56:08
Agent Palmer
Mean, look, I mean, look, I remember I remember calling Moviefone to get like, showtimes because nobody, you know, because this is the thing you forget, like when you are living in your parent’s house, there is probably always, and at least for Sara and I and our generation, there was a paper around and at the very least they got the Sunday paper which had your times.
00:06:56:13 – 00:07:21:20
Agent Palmer
But when you started moving out on your own, like there’s there’s not just an adult around that’s like, yeah, I get the newspaper. And so you’re like, oh crap. And look, the internet was around. But when we were first, coming into our own and living on our own, you know, Moviefone was quicker than the internet at that time.
00:07:21:20 – 00:07:21:55
Agent Palmer
It was.
00:07:21:59 – 00:07:41:25
Sara Netzley
Yes, it was quicker. It was probably cheaper. I don’t remember what data was like back in the day. Probably the first thing I looked up on my first smartphone. And I want to say it was like a razor. Like pink razor. Was movie times. I mean, that is you say movie phone. It’s so funny. That’s one of the first things I remember being like, oh, I can punch this into my phone and it will tell me.
00:07:41:30 – 00:07:58:21
Sara Netzley
And by the time you get it up and you do the typing into this tiny browser and you pull it up and you wait, you should have just called movie. You could have just driven to the movie theater and been like, what time? Yeah. Okay, cool. So we got no, I think you and I are an interesting generation because I barely remember life before the internet.
00:07:58:21 – 00:08:14:21
Sara Netzley
I know we had both of us, you know, grew up without it and had all these other ways to find friends and make social plans and connect and things like that. But I think, I think I’m a little older than you, but I’m not asking either of us to out our ages, but we both were young enough that we were able to adapt, right?
00:08:14:21 – 00:08:21:35
Sara Netzley
And so it became second nature in a way that older folks, I don’t think have as much. So hashtag not all older folks.
00:08:21:40 – 00:08:55:35
Agent Palmer
Well, what I will say is that and I keep having this conversation with people our age, in this in-between generation where we’re not millennials and we’re not Gen X really like we we yeah, I think I think I think if you talk if you talk to us, we’re Gen X through and through. And the different to me because I am slightly younger than you, but I’m also left out of every demographic information ever, like, Gen X ends at 1980 and millennials start at about 85 or 86.
00:08:55:35 – 00:09:18:36
Agent Palmer
And here I am born in between there with, you know, and look, but 5 or 6 years ago, they called us the Oregon Trail generation, the Forgotten Generation, but whatever. But but I will say, I always think of us as Gen X because of what you just said, because we grew up in a time where, yeah, the internet existed, but it wasn’t what it is today.
00:09:18:42 – 00:09:49:32
Agent Palmer
Millennials grew up with DSL and better. We grew up with dial up, which meant that we were going to go out on a, you know, on a on a night like tonight, it’s 80, 90 degrees. It’s the summer. I would rather go out with my friends and do something, anything, than sit in front of a computer waiting for the internet to load, which is exactly what the option would have been when we were, you know, younger at that point.
00:09:49:32 – 00:09:55:48
Agent Palmer
So I and I also think that we grew up without smartphones. We grew out without like when that Razr.
00:09:55:48 – 00:09:57:21
Sara Netzley
Commercial media, no social.
00:09:57:21 – 00:10:32:47
Agent Palmer
Media. No. I mean ehm ehm, well if you consider ehm, the original social media because we got to do things like our message status was basically our away message, which was we spent way too much time, you know, with, with emojis before we knew that what they were and with, fonts and backgrounds and colors and anyway, I, I the point is, I think we’re Gen X, and I think it’s just the technology didn’t change until we were further on.
00:10:32:47 – 00:10:52:39
Agent Palmer
Like, there are, you know, I’m not going to I’m not pious. Like, I did some crazy, embarrassing shit. There is no proof of it. And that’s what makes me not a millennial, I think. I think it’s because nobody could snap a picture. And if you did, it was with the disposable camera. And I’m sure no one has that negative.
00:10:52:53 – 00:11:11:11
Sara Netzley
Yeah. No, you didn’t get the negatives. Maybe you got duplicates if you were lucky and then you would mail it to somebody or you know, you share the the second image that you got, but they’re not easily digitized. They’re not just right there for easy sharing and uploading. Yeah. My my mother has been going through old pictures.
00:11:11:16 – 00:11:38:27
Sara Netzley
My, all three of my 2 to 2 of us, my brother and I are both technically Gen X, and my sister is in that exact in that same like hole that you fall into between X and millennial. And when my mom’s going through old pictures, she will just take pictures of the pictures. So she’ll take her phone and she’ll take a picture of the pictures that were developed in 1986, of all of us playing in the yard and are like real short shorts and hideous tall socks and things, and that’s it’s so fun to see those.
00:11:38:27 – 00:11:56:01
Sara Netzley
And it’s so strange to think my sister’s kids, every step they do is, is recorded and is readily available and widely shared and ours, you know, it’s because my mom was like, oh, this was cute. And then she sends it to the family group chat and her thumb is in the picture because she’s holding it to take the picture of the picture.
00:11:56:06 – 00:11:59:53
Sara Netzley
You just you just can’t get that experience. And a lot of other generations that.
00:11:59:58 – 00:12:18:35
Agent Palmer
I have, I look, I’m proud to say that I have two things. One, I have two shoeboxes full of my own pictures. So the few pictures that do exist from college or whatever from from that era I have. And two, I have my baby pictures.
00:12:18:40 – 00:12:19:13
Agent Palmer
00:12:19:18 – 00:12:32:26
Agent Palmer
Which is, I know my mother has a few still, but like knowing that I have more control over my baby pictures, is it like a feather in my cap? Like I’m not going to do anything with it, but just knowing that my mother’s not going to get the most.
00:12:32:31 – 00:12:33:51
Sara Netzley
Under your control.
00:12:34:02 – 00:13:03:57
Agent Palmer
Yes, yes. You know, and that’s that’s not important. But I feel like sometimes it is, just knowing that that that’s what I have and, you know, to the same and those baby pictures came in handy when my mother turned, oh, I don’t know. I think it was her 50th. I went through and I scanned a bunch of the pictures, because that’s the thing about my baby pictures is it’s their all time period stuff.
00:13:03:57 – 00:13:24:22
Agent Palmer
It’s not just pictures of me. So, like, I have pictures of my younger mom and my younger dad, and. Yeah, who are these people? Because, you know, I don’t know who they I don’t know who they are. But yeah, I did want to ask you, because we’re talking about digitizing stuff. And you are a reporter now for entertainment.
00:13:24:27 – 00:13:50:26
Agent Palmer
Every everything’s new. I guess this falls more in the academic side. Maybe, but, like, I would if I. If I became famous tomorrow, those baby pictures become, quote unquote somehow newsworthy. Which means that if I was fake, got famous tomorrow and had a kid, that kid would be newsworthy. And that’s. I find fault with that.
00:13:50:26 – 00:14:08:06
Agent Palmer
I’m not. I’m also not the demographic that’s looking for that news. But does that ever come up where people are like, oh, Sara, you should cover this. And you’re like, it’s, it’s a famous actor kid who’s done nothing but be a kid like, what am I? Yeah.
00:14:08:10 – 00:14:29:42
Sara Netzley
Thankfully, that’s not really what does. That’s not the kind of thing. And I generally, I receive the assignment and I write it like I’m very rarely going to push back and say, I don’t think, you know, that’s just not they. But they’re the brand is very clear. It it’s, it’s it is entertainment news and it is, you know, celebrity events that are a little bit more events than that.
00:14:29:42 – 00:14:42:57
Sara Netzley
I’m certainly not saying everything is a Pulitzer. Yeah. But you know, it’s the it’s not really quite the same. It’s not the paparazzi type out with a stroll with her kids or, you know, anything like that.
00:14:43:09 – 00:14:48:15
Agent Palmer
But it is like that. But you have to compete against that.
00:14:48:20 – 00:15:13:49
Sara Netzley
You don’t really. I think because that’s so this is a journalism professor thing. You know, certain publications have, have, have built expectations for their audiences. And so I don’t think people come to an expecting paparazzi photos that’s going to be different publications. And they just like they don’t come to, you know, Deadline or Variety. Now, TMZ, yes, TMZ they might come to for embarrassing celebrity photos.
00:15:13:54 – 00:15:39:37
Sara Netzley
I will say TMZ breaks a lot of accurate news, but they do it with the thinnest possible sourcing, and so they often are ahead of the curve with things like celebrity deaths, arrest, things like that because they don’t have an abundance of caution for official confirmation. And so they just publish and but you’ll see them out hours before, like an E.W. or a variety or a deadline or, you know, Hollywood Reporter, things like that.
00:15:39:37 – 00:16:02:51
Agent Palmer
It goes back to I and I don’t remember what show it was, and I believe it was a Sorkin show. So either Newsroom or Sports Night, where the news was breaking all over on one particular episode for one particular thing, and they’re just waiting for a second source, like, that’s like the entire episode is like, this thing happened.
00:16:02:56 – 00:16:05:29
Agent Palmer
Well, but we don’t have a second source.
00:16:05:29 – 00:16:23:38
Sara Netzley
I’m 90% sure that was, The Newsroom, and it was probably Gabby Giffords being shot, I think was the episode, and they were waiting because so many, so many outlets got it wrong. So many outlets went with one source that was incorrect pronouncing her dead. And so that became, you know, for the newsroom fictionalized a year or two later.
00:16:23:47 – 00:16:50:58
Sara Netzley
But yeah, that’s that’s exactly why a lot of newsrooms changed their policies after the Gabby Giffords incident to say, you have to have confirmation from X, Y, or Z. You know, you have to have two sources. You have to have it from this source or this source. So it is there are different standards that different outlets have. And TMZ, bless their hearts, I do not know what their standards are low, but I think sometimes they’re the kind of the Cassandra, they’re the ones that are out there kind of saying this is what’s happening.
00:16:50:58 – 00:17:07:54
Sara Netzley
And a lot of times they’re right. They’re not always right. And that’s why you don’t use them as a source if you’re in other media outlets. But like they were the first people to report, I want to say the first people report on Kobe Bryant’s death. And they had it sourced somehow, but the other outlets were just like, no, we don’t have the hospital, we don’t have a spokesperson.
00:17:07:54 – 00:17:28:40
Sara Netzley
We don’t have somebody like the AP who has confirmed it. Those outlets that you can really trust that they’ve done the work. So it is it is interesting to see how news spreads through social media and news ecosystems, or as they’re posted online, who’s doing it first and with what? Sourcing. And that’s fascinating to me. If you’re a big journalism nerd, maybe not everybody you know did that, but I sure do.
00:17:28:40 – 00:17:37:15
Agent Palmer
I got to tell you, I, I’m, I don’t I think I would classify myself as a journalism nerd because I’m, I’m intrigued by the process.
00:17:37:20 – 00:17:37:58
Agent Palmer
00:17:38:03 – 00:17:57:58
Agent Palmer
But I made a call and I think we may have talked about this before, and if not, we’ve talked about this privately. I made a call my junior year in college, that my minor in feature writing journalism was never going to go anywhere. And my journalism teacher took great offense to it because she thought I had amazing potential.
00:17:58:03 – 00:18:30:21
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know if that was just a teacher thing or if she really thought I had potential. And, I, I actually count my lucky stars. I did that like that. I made that call, like, because I see, how the industry has changed and I see, the pain that that that the reporting anything has now become, and I see it from, I guess, all the angles.
00:18:30:28 – 00:19:17:40
Agent Palmer
It’s hard to, avoid hard news, like real, actual news. But then again, I’m also surrounded by geek news and entertainment news and sports news. It’s just a product of who I am, and I’ve seen all of those kinds of news. Is change in in like since I got out of college. And I wonder like, well, in some alternate universe, I did become a journalist and you know, in that scenario, I probably have a podcast because it feels like every every reporter has a podcast or every, you know, and so I, I, I feel like I dodged a bullet, but I do kind of like look at it and go like, holy sh, like my
00:19:17:40 – 00:19:30:32
Agent Palmer
hat goes off to the people that are actually doing it because somebody has to. But also like, thank God it’s not me.
00:19:30:37 – 00:19:53:04
Sara Netzley
I, I do think there’s been a lot of evolution and change and platforms and storytelling conventions and expectations also for you, the reporter, to be your own brand. And that’s really I, I don’t have to do a lot of this because I’m not I’m not that kind of reporter. I’m, you know, I’m, I’m doing news stories for for Entertainment Weekly.
00:19:53:04 – 00:20:17:51
Sara Netzley
Yeah. That that’s one thing. But I don’t have to be sort of that face of the New York Times or the the white House correspondent for CNN, who has to balance what you say on Twitter, professionally, but with some personality, with some interests, but with factuality. It’s just how professional reporters navigate that do my job, but also push things out online, but also be interesting enough that people follow you.
00:20:17:51 – 00:20:38:00
Sara Netzley
And you can do that with just facts and reporting and sharing that information. But a lot of reporters have other things that they talk about, and it’s fascinating to me to watch how they navigate those waters, because it does kind of change in the expectations change about what audiences expect. But yeah, I’m with you. It’s it’s a very different climate in a lot of ways.
00:20:38:00 – 00:20:57:09
Sara Netzley
But in a lot of ways, you still have people grinding at daily newspapers. You still have people who show up at like four in the morning to those local TV stations to put out the local news every morning at 5 or 6 and ten. Right. And so there is the, the foundation is there. And that’s what I, that’s what journalism schools are doing.
00:20:57:09 – 00:21:18:09
Sara Netzley
That’s what journalism professors are doing, is, is just emphasizing news, values and writing skills and ethics and the best practices. And then hopefully the students can adapt as news outlets move on TikTok or as, as you look at, you know, how are we going to communicate if, if Elon Musk buys Twitter and everybody leaves Twitter and we have some new social media platform, how are we going to adapt to that?
00:21:18:09 – 00:21:37:28
Sara Netzley
And hopefully the writing in the news values and the ethics will remain, even if the length of the stories or the visual content of the stories or the language that we use changes. It’s it’s it is it is tough. It is. I wish I knew what the next ten years, 20 years would look like, but I if I did, I’d be investing in technology and I would be wealthy.
00:21:37:33 – 00:21:40:11
Sara Netzley
And I have it and I don’t, but it would be great.
00:21:40:11 – 00:21:44:43
Agent Palmer
Would you. Anybody knows in that world, would you still be teaching journalism?
00:21:44:48 – 00:21:45:57
Sara Netzley
Yes. Okay.
00:21:46:02 – 00:22:05:21
Sara Netzley
I might not be full time. I might be a class a semester, but I would never not what I teach and I’ve and we talked about this the last time I was on two. I also write fiction. I write romance fiction. I, I love that it’s so much fun. If I become a bestselling, you know, seven figure author, wouldn’t that be great?
00:22:05:21 – 00:22:22:52
Sara Netzley
Knock on wood, I don’t know that I would leave my teaching job. I work too hard for tenure. I work too hard for that PhD, and I like teaching. I like being in the classroom with the students. I really like that. So, yeah, it’s it’s no, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t walk away. If I was a trillionaire, I would still do that.
00:22:22:52 – 00:22:31:49
Sara Netzley
I it’s a I, I, it’s so pretentious to say it’s a calling but I love it. I just, I don’t see myself ever not doing that I.
00:22:31:53 – 00:22:58:25
Agent Palmer
I miss academia every year around this time of year and, look, I granted, I’ve been either un or underemployed for the better part of this pandemic. And since, but even when I was full, fully employed, like, you know, five years on the job, six years, seven years on the job, every time July turned to August.
00:22:58:30 – 00:23:23:53
Agent Palmer
I just think, like, it’s time. Like there’s just something and and, you know, I, I know that, it’s ingrained in us, right? Like from from preschool to kindergarten. Like, it’s always like summer. Then, you know, you get that that first. For me, it’s it’s always weather related. It’s that first morning that you wake up and it’s a little bit cooler and you know, it’s still going to be really hot, but it’s cool and great in the morning like that.
00:23:23:53 – 00:23:47:32
Agent Palmer
That’s when I just start thinking about like, oh, it’s it’s that time of year. And like, you know, the college football fan in me is like, well, college football is around the season, but there’s also a part of my brain that’s like, maybe you should learn something this fall. Like, and I do a pretty good job of like making sure that I’m reading all the time and that I’m also consuming things from different places and that I’m not.
00:23:47:37 – 00:24:12:52
Agent Palmer
I don’t want my algorithm to be easy, so I make sure that, like, I watch some movies that aren’t typically mine or, you know, just or I watch an older movie that, you know, maybe I liked, but just isn’t. But still, you know, it’s it’s the beginning of August. I’m, I’m not ready to go back to school, but I, I still feel it.
00:24:12:56 – 00:24:26:55
Agent Palmer
I don’t know if that means I should be pursuing something in academia or not, but like every, you know, August into September, I feel like. All right, you know, it’s it’s it. Let’s do it.
00:24:27:00 – 00:24:40:40
Sara Netzley
There is something about that. You get a reset every year, right? It’s a new classroom and it’s new. If you’re the teacher, it’s new faces. If you’re the student, it’s a new room, a new, you know, a new seating chart. Whatever the case may be, I feel like I’m talking about elementary school. There.
00:24:40:44 – 00:24:44:42
Sara Netzley
It’s starting to say it’s still it’s still the same.
00:24:44:42 – 00:24:54:39
Agent Palmer
And like, colleges don’t have seating charts, but I think I sat in the same you. I was going to say, I think I sat in the same seat, more or less in every class.
00:24:54:39 – 00:25:15:23
Sara Netzley
I’ve had the same students in the same classroom over different semesters. And it’s so funny to see them go straight to their old chairs from the previous semester. And just this past semester, I had a girl who missed several weeks of classes, and when she came back, somebody had taken her seat and she walked right up to it and then just stood there like, but it was like, maybe you’ve been gone.
00:25:15:27 – 00:25:31:17
Sara Netzley
They shuffled. I’m so sorry. But yeah, it’s really funny the way everybody kind of. And I did have a student who moved from the back row to the front row halfway through, and I was just like, is everything okay? What is happening with you? Do you need anything from me? Am I not talking loud enough? It’s just. But yeah.
00:25:31:17 – 00:25:48:42
Sara Netzley
No, it’s people. You get into your you get into your rhythms and I think you have those macro rhythms of August. It starts to get a little cooler in the mornings and at night and we go back to school and it’s, you know, the pumpkin spice high rides again and all that stuff happens. But then individually you have what what class?
00:25:48:42 – 00:26:11:32
Sara Netzley
Who do I talk to? Where do I go after class? You know, who am I sitting with? Who am I studying with you? Just you build those routines and one of the coolest things for me is watching the younger students I have fall into those. I teach one class that is a lot of sophomores, a couple a couple freshmen sometimes, and they don’t know each other as well at the start of the semester until the classroom is very quiet, when I come in and nobody’s really talking or chatting.
00:26:11:32 – 00:26:26:38
Sara Netzley
And as the semester wears on, it starts to pick up as they get to know each other, and by the end of it, usually it is pretty raucous pre class scene. And I love that. I love watching them meet each other because I know that they’re going to be together for classes for the next three years, and it’s just it’s very cool to see that happen.
00:26:26:38 – 00:26:39:18
Sara Netzley
I have nothing to do with it other than making a classroom setting where I think they feel comfortable asking questions and talking and encouraging discussion. But you know, they would be doing that without me even also. But I love I love seeing that. That’s one of my favorite things is I.
00:26:39:22 – 00:27:09:03
Agent Palmer
But I don’t think you need years for that because so I and granted this is a very asterisk unique situation that I. But when I spent my semester abroad in Israel, in the year, in the year 2000, seriously, in the year 2000, you know, we had quote unquote core class, which was our, it was a program run by, I don’t know what it was called.
00:27:09:08 – 00:27:38:16
Agent Palmer
I don’t know what it’s called now, but then it was the Union of Reformed Jews, I think you are or did. Yeah. I, I there’s some number of acronyms, right. And, so, a good chunk of our morning was after breakfast, we had a 90 minute Hebrew class, and then after the 90 minute Hebrew class, we had a 2.5 hour core class, which was, we’re going to teach you 4000 years of Jewish history in four months.
00:27:38:21 – 00:27:41:30
Sara Netzley
And no, that’s a thousand years a month. You’re fine.
00:27:41:32 – 00:28:04:38
Agent Palmer
No, I know I and it is, but one of the things that I remember most. And look, not every class is 2.5 hours, five days a week. Like, I get that, I get that, but it took us literally a week. And I can still tell you, given any prompt who’s going to agree with me, who’s going to disagree with me?
00:28:04:38 – 00:28:28:32
Agent Palmer
And I’m like 20 years removed from that, and I can still picture what the arguments are going to be and who’s going to be on what side. Right. And it’s just and we fell into that within the first like two days. It’s just like, okay, all right. This is going to be my right hand girl. She’s got my back in any argument.
00:28:28:37 – 00:28:35:38
Agent Palmer
And those are the two we’re going to fight with for the next four months.
00:28:35:43 – 00:28:58:17
Sara Netzley
From the teacher perspective, sometimes it’s figuring out pretty quickly who is going to gently speak up. If a classmate is going off on the wrong track, because the professor can do that and say, I think you’re missing the point, or I think you’re thinking about this and maybe from the wrong angle, but sometimes it’s nice when a student will say, actually, I was thinking it would be, you know, I just I like that kind of peer correction.
00:28:58:17 – 00:29:04:58
Sara Netzley
And I’ll always step in if somebody is just really. But you can kind of tell early on, oh, she’s going to be good at that or he’s going to be a good person to speak up and say, actually.
00:29:05:00 – 00:29:32:20
Agent Palmer
How long do you wait? All right. So so no, no, I mean, because you are, you know, for better or worse, you’re the captain of the ship. So if if the first mate, let’s say me, I’m going to be one of those talkative kids in class. Clearly, if I’m going and going and going and going and none, no one is jumping in to correct me how, because that’s a balance that you have as the captain that you like.
00:29:32:29 – 00:29:51:13
Agent Palmer
You have to you can’t just jump in because you you do want that other student to jump in and correct me, be like, well, Jason, I think, you know, maybe you’re a little off on this. And like, how long do you wait? Like, do you have like, a clock in your head where you’re like, I’m going.
00:29:51:18 – 00:29:58:46
Sara Netzley
I so I try to let it come to a natural conclusion. I sometimes you do get talkers and you do need to be a little stricter.
00:29:58:46 – 00:30:01:31
Agent Palmer
Who is that? Well, is that what you call me? Yeah, I’m a talker.
00:30:01:35 – 00:30:04:02
Sara Netzley
I’m not saying that’s you. I’m saying so.
00:30:04:02 – 00:30:09:40
Agent Palmer
No, it’s. It’s me, it’s me. I well, it depends on the class, but. Yeah. It’s true.
00:30:09:42 – 00:30:24:29
Sara Netzley
Yeah, true. It depends on comfort level with material and interest and things like that. So sometimes you do have students where I know if I don’t say I am, I’m going to stop you right there because I think you’re thinking about this in a way that is not considering X, or to say, I’m going to stop you right there.
00:30:24:34 – 00:30:44:59
Sara Netzley
There’s something you’re not considering who can help him out, who can jump in and say what aspect we need to also be including in this discussion of what, you know, what we should lead with in this story or how we should have approached this situation. Sometimes it’s just a matter of saying you’re you’re thinking in the right area, but not about a specific issue or situation.
00:30:44:59 – 00:31:03:14
Sara Netzley
So so it’s just redirecting. Sometimes you’re getting somebody else who probably there’s always one student back who’s just like, God damn it, he’s so wrong. He’s so wrong, and they’re just waiting for that redirect to say, what else could we be considering? They’re just like, yeah, got it. It’s this. So bless those students. But sometimes I like to let people talk until they’re done.
00:31:03:14 – 00:31:08:48
Sara Netzley
Assuming it’s not a time suck. Well, I don’t like interrupting. I don’t like interrupting.
00:31:08:50 – 00:31:32:22
Agent Palmer
I, I, I, I wonder too, because, like, I can easily talk myself not only in a circle, but I can talk myself out of my own argument like I have that ability. I it’s not a great ability. Because because yeah, I’ve done it in professional meetings where I’m like, no, this is what you should do. And then like two minutes later, I’m still going.
00:31:32:22 – 00:31:40:52
Agent Palmer
And I’m like, actually, no, we shouldn’t do this at all. Like it just. And I’ve just completely won at myself. Right? And it’s just like, oh, what? That that’s.
00:31:40:52 – 00:31:45:52
Sara Netzley
Impressive. Not everybody can do that.
00:31:45:57 – 00:31:53:42
Agent Palmer
I think, and maybe it’s an age thing. I, I’m more willing to admit when I’m wrong now. Yeah.
00:31:53:47 – 00:31:54:07
Sara Netzley
Yeah.
00:31:54:18 – 00:32:14:35
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know, I don’t know why that is. There’s a lot of things where I’m like, I do that, and I don’t know why. But but admitting I’m wrong, I just. I don’t have the time for it. If I’m wrong, I’m I’m I’m wrong. Time to move on like that. I don’t I don’t dwell on it.
00:32:14:46 – 00:32:23:42
Agent Palmer
I mean, now, not to get to, like, personal, but like, everybody keeps asking me what I want to do.
00:32:23:47 – 00:32:25:00
Sara Netzley
00:32:25:05 – 00:32:50:26
Agent Palmer
I, I, I have no idea. And I think that it hard and I kind of, I feel bad for your students in a way because I have, I know the skill sets, I can fall back on. But one of the reasons I think I’m not very hirable right now is because I’m looking for a job and I’m not looking to change the world.
00:32:50:31 – 00:33:06:21
Agent Palmer
And I think people that are looking to hire want you to want to change the world. So I just, I would very much just like a paycheck. Thank you. I don’t want to I don’t want to reframe Einstein’s constant. They’re fine.
00:33:06:26 – 00:33:28:57
Sara Netzley
I’ve seen some wild job listings just on Twitter. And you know that it’s like you say, it’s looking for people who are energetic go getters who love people and want to make the world a better place. Apply at our sandwich shop. But it’s like, okay, you know, that’s great. Like, I but really, that’s who I thought we were going to be doing diplomacy or something with all of that.
00:33:28:57 – 00:33:48:51
Sara Netzley
And it’s okay. All right. So yeah, it is it is interesting to me the way a lot of these jobs and I’m being a little hyperbolic, but, yeah, it does sometimes feel like everything is. And maybe it’s just that. Maybe it’s just the time we live in that everything has to be a little dramatic and a little catchy and a little, you know, flashy for social media, I don’t know, I feel like we’ve some.
00:33:49:03 – 00:33:54:57
Sara Netzley
I’m, we’re veering into the Pappy and Meme hour. Well, it gives today jobs today, but.
00:33:54:57 – 00:34:06:16
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But you know what? I, I very much I’ve been this old man for so long, Sara. Like, some of us.
00:34:06:21 – 00:34:07:49
Sara Netzley
Some of us got there faster than others.
00:34:07:49 – 00:34:33:47
Agent Palmer
I like, like, here’s the thing. I, I have friends of mine from my college days now because of circumstances, and I think I explained them on this show on the Or during this podcast at some point. I was a very young freshman. I was a 17 year old college freshman. I didn’t turn 18 until my second semester of college.
00:34:33:51 – 00:34:35:18
Sara Netzley
Oh, wow.
00:34:35:23 – 00:35:21:04
Agent Palmer
So so I was a very young college student, and yet and I graduated literally a month after I turned 21. So all of my drinking was underage. I understand that, too. But the the thing about it was, around my sophomore junior year, I became the oldest man on campus, and I had stayed there ever since. And now, as I’m almost 40, I almost have the age number that makes all of my things, reasonable because I’m not I’m not reasonable as a 25 year old, it’s like, I don’t want to know.
00:35:21:08 – 00:35:23:17
Agent Palmer
I’m finally grown into it.
00:35:23:22 – 00:35:23:51
Sara Netzley
I’ve been.
00:35:24:03 – 00:35:25:14
Sara Netzley
I’ve earned this.
00:35:25:14 – 00:35:26:58
Sara Netzley
This is.
00:35:27:03 – 00:35:43:40
Agent Palmer
It took me forever. Because I. I will gladly rail against anything you want as an old man. Give me a prompt, and I can. I can do that. And I, I find myself doing it without prompting, which is really the scary point.
00:35:43:45 – 00:35:56:49
Sara Netzley
Okay, here’s what I want to rail about. Like an old person. Why do the commercials on Hulu have to be so loud? And why am I not allowed to pay an extra $5 a month to get rid of them?
00:35:56:49 – 00:35:57:41
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s not.
00:35:57:41 – 00:35:59:20
Sara Netzley
I pay for your service, Hulu.
00:35:59:20 – 00:36:04:09
Agent Palmer
It’s not Hulu for your it’s not Hulu as a as a oh.
00:36:04:24 – 00:36:07:00
Sara Netzley
Oh. Wait. You have an answer. I just wanted to complain. Can you answer this?
00:36:07:02 – 00:36:11:54
Agent Palmer
It’s amazing. No, it’s definitely not Hulu. It’s almost every platform.
00:36:11:59 – 00:36:12:22
Sara Netzley
Okay.
00:36:12:26 – 00:36:32:55
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. That’s what makes it the worst. So as an example and YouTube is probably the worst at this, to belie my age a little bit, Stefan, I have very much, started watching Minecraft content on YouTube.
00:36:32:59 – 00:36:36:25
Sara Netzley
Listen, the couple that Minecraft together stays together, I think that’s.
00:36:36:30 – 00:37:08:15
Agent Palmer
And, and one of the things that drives me absolutely nuts is that on YouTube, because they’re all different, unique creators, they all have different volume levels. Okay. So for so and so I have to turn it up and for so and so I have to turn it down regardless of where it is. And yet the ads will always be astronomically louder than the loudest person and even more astronomically louder than the quiet person.
00:37:08:19 – 00:37:33:14
Agent Palmer
Sure. And it also happens on we’re not really a cable cutter, but we’ve got sling and the ads are always louder on just in ads. Yeah. And it. Yeah. And look, I know because I can tell when sling is putting in ads for sling that sling sold versus the actual cable network ads, and they’re all still louder.
00:37:33:24 – 00:37:41:56
Agent Palmer
And I think it’s still that 1990s, 1980s mentality of like, if we put the ad on loud, they’ll pay it.
00:37:41:57 – 00:38:03:08
Sara Netzley
Don’t pay attention. So my friend Tanya lives with me, and her, her whole approach to that is you can have my time, but you cannot have my attention. I’ve never seen a person faster with the mute button than her because she’s just like, listen, you can take my 90s. I am not going to pay attention to you time, but not attention.
00:38:03:08 – 00:38:05:30
Sara Netzley
I mean, I just, I really I embrace that. That’s great.
00:38:05:30 – 00:38:26:40
Agent Palmer
I’ll pick up my phone. I’m not a big I mean, I think I’ve, I’ve definitely spent more time trying to put the phone away so that I’m engaged in either what I’m watching or what I’m doing or what have you. But I will grab the phone when it says ad one of 2 or 1 of four or whatever.
00:38:26:40 – 00:38:28:37
Sara Netzley
It is, take down.
00:38:28:42 – 00:38:45:15
Agent Palmer
And, well, I was going to say the other thing that’s absolutely drives me nuts is like, and this is recent history. Five years ago, you get the fat, you get the the skip. Five seconds into the ad, now they’re just running five second ads.
00:38:45:20 – 00:38:49:18
Sara Netzley
That’s actually brilliant. I think if you can, if you can do an ad in five seconds, I’ll give you five seconds.
00:38:49:18 – 00:38:52:39
Agent Palmer
Then why were you wasting my other 25, five years ago?
00:38:52:46 – 00:38:56:58
Sara Netzley
They they had to learn. They didn’t know. They had to learn.
00:38:57:03 – 00:38:58:27
Sara Netzley
I don’t know.
00:38:58:31 – 00:39:10:41
Sara Netzley
I was going to make a recommendation for two shows on the one service that doesn’t ever give me ads, other than for its on programing Apple plus. Are you a For All Mankind watcher? Are you an Apple Plus?
00:39:10:52 – 00:39:12:44
Agent Palmer
I’m not an Apple Plus person.
00:39:12:49 – 00:39:14:14
Sara Netzley
We’re. You’re not really an Apple person, are you?
00:39:14:15 – 00:39:27:59
Agent Palmer
I’m not. No. But I will tell you that, as far as ads go, I’ve been a very big fan of Freevee, which used to be IMDb TV, which.
00:39:27:59 – 00:39:28:28
Agent Palmer
Did.
00:39:28:28 – 00:39:57:04
Agent Palmer
I swear to God, Bezos, you fucked up. It was better. Branding is IMDb TV. Just I don’t I don’t care that it’s free TV. You’re not being clever, but I and they, they, And I don’t know if it’s maybe because the service is still new and they haven’t figured it out yet, but it it skips about 50% of the ad breaks.
00:39:57:09 – 00:39:58:57
Agent Palmer
And that’s a it’s a selling point.
00:39:58:57 – 00:40:08:43
Agent Palmer
It’s such a wonderful like, like present like up time for a week with no, no, no commercial. Nothing.
00:40:08:48 – 00:40:14:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Woo! We’re still watching TV.
00:40:14:32 – 00:40:21:13
Agent Palmer
But no I’m not, I’m not I now I do know For All Mankind feels like it would be up my alley.
00:40:21:18 – 00:40:37:27
Sara Netzley
That’s why I asked about that one first. Because it is. It’s a space race, kind of alt history. What if Russia made it to the moon first? And what does that do to the U.S and the US space program? And it is, it’s just finishing out its third season. By the time this makes it to air, it will be all three seasons will be Streamable.
00:40:37:27 – 00:40:39:32
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s going to keep going.
00:40:39:42 – 00:40:47:17
Sara Netzley
All I don’t know if it has been renewed for season four. I feel like that’s something I should know. I don’t think I’ve seen it come through.
00:40:47:28 – 00:40:54:27
Agent Palmer
I will tell you that if you’re if I, if if your next suggestion is what I think your next suggestion is going to be.
00:40:54:27 – 00:40:56:42
Sara Netzley
It’s not going to be it’s not going to be to continue.
00:40:56:47 – 00:41:02:29
Agent Palmer
I, I’ve been waiting for Ted Lasso to finish before I started, because I.
00:41:02:34 – 00:41:02:56
Sara Netzley
Was.
00:41:03:01 – 00:41:03:50
Agent Palmer
I’ve known you.
00:41:03:50 – 00:41:06:14
Sara Netzley
Haven’t seen Ted Lasso. No. Oh my god.
00:41:06:17 – 00:41:34:42
Agent Palmer
Well well well okay so couple things. One, I was doing the scrubs podcast, relisten or whatever. Sure. And so Bill Lawrence would talk about it. Well, Zach and Bill would talk about it because Donald had never selected. It took Donald forever to to get to see Ted Lasso. And Bill had at some point had said, oh, it’s not going to be a show that goes on forever.
00:41:34:56 – 00:41:56:22
Agent Palmer
And so I was like, all right, that’s fine. I’ll just I’ll, I’ll wait until it’s done. But, but and I go back to the Minecraft stuff that Steph and I watched together. Okay. As we record this in early August, I just want to let you know we’re only two episodes into Moon Knight. We still haven’t gotten to Kenobi yet.
00:41:56:22 – 00:42:16:18
Agent Palmer
We know that Miss Marvel’s already out. We know She-Hulk is coming. We know Andor’s coming like I know all and we want to watch all of those things as well. But we just we’re just so far behind. And it’s a it’s a thing like an.
00:42:16:23 – 00:42:33:19
Sara Netzley
You just listed all the stuff I haven’t seen. Also I’ve seen one episode of Miss Marvel. It’s charming. I want to see the rest of it. I’ve seen no Star Wars. I’ve seen none of the rest of the Marvel. I’ve not seen Moon Knight. I love Oscar Isaac. No. Moon Knight. No, I’m with you. It’s just. It’s just there’s too much stuff out there.
00:42:33:19 – 00:42:49:03
Sara Netzley
There’s so many things going on, and there’s just other shows that I’ve prioritized. And for the record, the Apple Show I was going to recommend was not Ted Lasso, because I just assumed you’d seen it because you’re, you know, you have your a man who has his head on straight. So I thought, you know, no, it’s pachinko was what I was going to recommend.
00:42:49:03 – 00:43:08:41
Sara Netzley
I just want more people to, you know, you mentioned watching shows that will or reading books that will kind of challenge you or expand, or it is about the, the, the Japanese invasion and occupation of Korea. And it starts in the cash. The 1920s jumps ahead and jobs ahead. And so you go back and forth between that in the 80s.
00:43:08:41 – 00:43:33:51
Sara Netzley
And I want to say there also the 50s. It is it’s marvelous. It’s just it’s eight episodes. It is it can be done, but you should watch it with subtitles. I learned about history. I learned about culture. I learned about language. I’ve learned about family. It’s just it’s wonderful. So if if you are looking for something that will expand your horizons, it probably be something I don’t know that everybody’s like, I would love to watch a show that is primarily in Japanese and Korean, subtitled, let’s do this.
00:43:33:59 – 00:43:34:44
Sara Netzley
It’s so good.
00:43:34:54 – 00:43:35:23
Agent Palmer
No, that was.
00:43:35:23 – 00:43:39:12
Sara Netzley
Going to be my recommendation when you talked about wanting to. Yeah, keep your brain active.
00:43:39:12 – 00:43:40:52
Agent Palmer
I will do that and I will.
00:43:40:52 – 00:43:45:20
Sara Netzley
But it’s wonderful. It’s so good. It’s not homework at all. I made it sound like homework. It’s not. I’m sorry. Yeah.
00:43:45:26 – 00:43:53:57
Agent Palmer
No, I, I, I recently, it’s very hard for me because Stefan, I do watch we have a lot of overlaps for things.
00:43:54:02 – 00:43:54:44
Agent Palmer
00:43:54:48 – 00:44:11:44
Agent Palmer
And being unemployed I try not to watch I don’t watch ahead, but it means I have to dig deeper to find things that I can watch that she won’t be interested in. And there’s a few where I’ve just taken a flier and I’ve been like, this is going to be mine because I need something to fill my day.
00:44:11:44 – 00:44:37:22
Agent Palmer
Like, I can read, but I can’t read for 12 hours. I want a little. I want to change up the mediums a bit. Right. And we all need an escape, whether you’re working or looking for work. I, I put Kim’s convenience down in, like, in, like, a month. I think I put the whole thing, and she would come in and watch an episode here or there, but that was basically my show, right?
00:44:37:22 – 00:44:53:03
Agent Palmer
And I, I have to tell you, I absolutely adore that show. It is so nice to know that culturally, we are all absolutely the same.
00:44:53:08 – 00:45:07:20
Sara Netzley
I will say, I think I’m four episodes into Kim’s Convenience and I love it. It is the palate cleanser show. It’s the thing that you watch at the end of the day when you’ve just, you know, had a heavy drama or something, and then you just need a half an hour before bed to lighten things up a little bit.
00:45:07:20 – 00:45:11:46
Sara Netzley
And it’s such a good choice. I’m loving it so far. I’m loving it so far, and it’s so cute.
00:45:11:53 – 00:45:19:33
Agent Palmer
And speaking of palate cleansers, and I’ve needed one for this. I recently finished watching the Bear.
00:45:19:37 – 00:45:22:07
Sara Netzley
Which yes, yes chef.
00:45:22:12 – 00:45:37:11
Agent Palmer
Is first of all refreshing because thank God for a 22 minute drama. Like, I don’t know, like that. First of all, whoever made that call as an executive producer to be like, we could be make this an hour drama, but we’re not like chef’s kiss to you for that.
00:45:37:24 – 00:45:41:00
Sara Netzley
But that was more 30 minute drama. Yes.
00:45:41:05 – 00:46:03:33
Agent Palmer
But I, I couldn’t watch that. I couldn’t binge that show, I could I, I, I watched one episode every couple of days because it was just so it had my anxiety on a level from the moment I hit play, and I didn’t even know what I was getting into. I just, yeah, piqued my interest and I went, okay, I’m good.
00:46:03:42 – 00:46:09:10
Agent Palmer
And then I turned it on and I watched one episode. I was like, this is great. I’ll watch one tomorrow.
00:46:09:15 – 00:46:11:34
Sara Netzley
Yes.
00:46:11:39 – 00:46:34:22
Sara Netzley
I, I loved the bear. Actually. I there was some Twitter discourse about the bear bringing about a return of affection for the sexually competent dirtbag. And and there were a lot of chefs. Professional chefs were just like, it’s me, I’m the sexually competent dirtbag. And that’s kind of what became associated with the bear among a certain segment of Twitter fandom.
00:46:34:35 – 00:46:50:22
Sara Netzley
And I was plotting my next book and was like, oh, oh, a sexually competent dirtbag. You say, I can do that. So the here I’m currently writing is a chef who’s trying to get over his dirtbag ways. He retains a sexual competence, but that’s the purpose to thank for that.
00:46:50:35 – 00:46:56:26
Agent Palmer
And I it keeps coming up every time food comes up. But you’ve read Anthony Bourdain’s Kitchen Confidential.
00:46:56:33 – 00:46:57:23
Sara Netzley
I have not.
00:46:57:23 – 00:47:18:09
Agent Palmer
I because if you not, if you want to write a chef, read A Kitchen Confidential for just for research purposes because to me it is like the quintessential like, this is what a kitchen is like. You kind of see it in the bare, but you feel it when you read Bourdain’s book. It’s just it’s yeah.
00:47:18:24 – 00:47:30:05
Sara Netzley
I feel like I know him through pop culture osmosis, but obviously reading is never that’s never going to take the place of actually reading somebody’s work. Like so that’s a that’s a great recommendation.
00:47:30:07 – 00:47:38:12
Agent Palmer
I actually had a friend who was like, I don’t read. I just can’t, I can’t, I can’t be a reader. And look, I know it’s not for everybody. Like, I guess.
00:47:38:16 – 00:47:39:15
Sara Netzley
There’s a lot of reasons for that.
00:47:39:15 – 00:48:07:08
Agent Palmer
But it’s just it’s more personal than any of the other, like I granted, we’re on a podcast and most people are listening in their ears, right? Like that’s pretty personal. But the book is still like there’s there’s a level of what you put on the page, feel. And I guess you could speak to this. You’ve been a podcaster and a writer and a journalist like the written word feels more permanent.
00:48:07:13 – 00:48:27:01
Agent Palmer
I know I’m talking and I’m putting this on the internet and and, you know, episodes go to YouTube, and YouTube is probably forever, but there’s something about the written word that just feels more permanent than audio. Just there’s a permanence that just, I don’t know it. And so that as the reader and I go, This is and.
00:48:27:01 – 00:48:44:28
Sara Netzley
I think so I teach this is, this is going to hit just a very niche segment of listeners I’m sure. But I teach out of a Neil Postman book called Amusing Ourselves to Death. And it is this feels like the kind of thing you would actually really enjoy. It was written in 1985. It was right after 1984.
00:48:44:28 – 00:48:49:14
Sara Netzley
And, you know, all the Big Brother stuff, Big Brother stuff. What a way to dismiss that entirely.
00:48:49:14 – 00:48:51:05
Sara Netzley
Well, but yeah. Fair. Yeah.
00:48:51:07 – 00:49:16:09
Sara Netzley
You know, but he has his argument is, television irrevocably changed the shape of American life, the shape of of global life because we moved from a print society to a television society and everything that did to us culturally, socially, religiously, politically, sexually, like everything. And he has chapters devoted to how that affected education, how that affected politics, how that affected, religion, how that affected news.
00:49:16:23 – 00:49:32:52
Sara Netzley
It’s fascinating. But when you say that that made me think about you’re describing the kind of the type of graphic society where it’s fixed and it’s it’s tangible, the printed word, and you grapple with it alone. Reading is not a group activity. It can be and you can read along with people and you can do book clubs. And that’s great, and I love that.
00:49:32:52 – 00:49:54:03
Sara Netzley
But it’s just you in the page when you’re reading. And so you can go back and read things and authors, when they have this fixed and tangible medium, they have this ability to make a proposition and answer it. And you have to have we could do this podcast and we could fill it like a lot of 60 minute TV shows do, with 15 seconds of content that stretched over 60 minutes.
00:49:54:03 – 00:50:11:48
Sara Netzley
Right. You can do that in a verbal situation or a performance situation on the printed page. You really have to deliver content. And that’s not, you know, there’s there’s a lot of different kinds of writing out there, but that’s that’s a lot of what makes print different. Is that fixed? Make a proposition and follow through, whatever that is.
00:50:11:48 – 00:50:27:57
Sara Netzley
And you have to have the content to back it up. And so much visual verbal performing TV is not that. And and postman goes way into detail about things like that. And he, he hates to be way beyond beyond reason. I think. I don’t agree with him, but I agree with him. And it’s a very it’s a fun book to teach because of that.
00:50:28:10 – 00:50:39:39
Sara Netzley
I think he he goes too far, but I think he makes really good points and I think he’s right. TV has worked this up. I yeah, but I would. But right out of my cold that hands you know, that’s that’s the conundrum of American.
00:50:39:40 – 00:51:03:51
Agent Palmer
Life I mean I so I’ve got, understanding media by McLuhan on my shelf and I’ve attempted to read it three times. I it’s it’s so dense, I can’t I, I don’t, I like, I want, I want to read it because like everybody that I have ever like come across that talks about media, talks about martial. They really do.
00:51:03:51 – 00:51:26:26
Agent Palmer
But like I well I can’t do it. However however there’s like I got a, I got a I don’t know, I guess, I guess you’d call it happenstance, right. So a few years ago or a decade ago, a friend of mine suggested that I read Douglas Copeland’s Generation X, and I didn’t read it, and it sat on my shelf.
00:51:26:26 – 00:51:49:37
Agent Palmer
And then I finally picked it up. And then I was like, well, I like that. What else does he have? Right. So I’ve been reading all through Copeland’s, like, just like I’ve done for date, and I’ve been reading through all the Copeland and Copeland as a Canadian, literally wrote a book on understanding Marshall McLuhan as an interesting Canadian.
00:51:49:37 – 00:52:00:16
Agent Palmer
And I’m hoping that Drew Copeland, who I have grown to love, I will be able to fully understand Marshall McLuhan better.
00:52:00:21 – 00:52:10:33
Sara Netzley
You know, it’s funny, I almost brought up marshall McLuhan instead of Neil Postman because, I mean, you you’ve at least done the the Marshall McLuhan cool and hot media have, you.
00:52:10:38 – 00:52:12:30
Agent Palmer
Know,
00:52:12:35 – 00:52:33:08
Sara Netzley
Okay. So the reason it came, the reason it came up for me is because he says, there are two ways that communication exists. It’s cool medium or hot medium and hot medium are kind of a single sense, completely focused, and everything you need is there for you to, to get tangibly so. Books are a hot medium because it’s just you in the page.
00:52:33:16 – 00:52:55:08
Sara Netzley
You don’t need sight and sound and other cues. Okay, comic books are a cool medium because comic books are not literal. Exactly representative of what they’re talking about. You have to put in cartoons, or the same way you have to put together, you know, cartoonish images sometimes, plus a sound effect to understand there’s motion happening here.
00:52:55:17 – 00:53:14:24
Sara Netzley
That is Superman’s cape, you know, so it’s a it’s a cool medium because you have to spread your senses out. It’s not just sight if but when you talked about the podcast versus the book, I think podcasts are also a hot medium because it’s really just sound. You’re listening. You don’t have to put together a visual cue and a verbal cue to figure out what’s happening.
00:53:14:24 – 00:53:33:23
Sara Netzley
You know, it’s all in one place. And so podcasts and books are actually kind of similar in a McLuhan sense, but then you get into and here’s the here’s where I love teaching this stuff, the clue, oh my God, stop me. Just cut off my mic if terrible. McLuhan says, movies in a theater are hot medium. Even though movies are sight and sound.
00:53:33:23 – 00:53:50:24
Sara Netzley
You have to and you don’t have to. Certainly people don’t see or don’t hear and go to movies. But for the most part, people seeing movies, you have the visual and you have the verbal. But he says, because you’re in the dark, because it really it should just be you and the screen, not you and your smartphone and the screen and the guy next to you.
00:53:50:24 – 00:54:09:22
Sara Netzley
It should just be you interacting with what’s unspooling. That’s a hot medium. It’s absorptive. You get everything you need from there. And then I ask and then he says, TV is a cool medium because TV you get interrupted with commercials, you have life happening around you. You’re used to clipping your toenails or eating dinner or whatever you’re doing on this couch.
00:54:09:33 – 00:54:28:39
Sara Netzley
And so you have kind of distracted. You have to work to put together the message from the television. And so what I often ask my students is if if a movie theater experience is hot, it’s single, it’s absorptive. What is a Netflix movie at home? It’s a movie, but it’s on TV, you know? Where does where does it fall on the McLuhan scale?
00:54:28:39 – 00:54:44:44
Sara Netzley
Is it still hot? Is it cold? And a lot of the smart ones answer and if any of my students are listening, this is going to get you points on the final exam. The smart ones answer it depends on how you’re doing it. Some people watch Netflix movies with the lights off, completely turned off. You put your phone away and that is going to be a hot experience.
00:54:44:44 – 00:54:46:27
Sara Netzley
And I don’t mean like, hot. I mean like.
00:54:46:32 – 00:54:48:19
Agent Palmer
No, no, I guess. Look, there are.
00:54:48:24 – 00:55:01:46
Sara Netzley
How we I second screen Netflix movies all the time. I second screen Disney Plus movies. I saw Shang-Chi and the Ten Rings with my phone in my hand on my couch. That was a cool experience. That was not a hot, immersive experience, but I still enjoyed it. Although.
00:55:01:46 – 00:55:02:41
Agent Palmer
But although.
00:55:02:41 – 00:55:03:08
Sara Netzley
McLuhan.
00:55:03:21 – 00:55:18:39
Agent Palmer
I would say to McLuhan, every Marvel movie outside of phase one is a cool experience because it’s not just you in the screen, it’s you in the screen. And every film, and.
00:55:18:40 – 00:55:19:36
Sara Netzley
You’re more free of.
00:55:19:39 – 00:55:46:30
Agent Palmer
Because, like as we’re going into as as we sit here, as we’re going into phase five, I keep worrying that, like, I don’t remember, like there are portions of phase one and two that I love and I’ve rewatched there are portions of those phases I’ve only seen once, and if you’re going to take something from one of those movies and make it pivotal in phase 5 or 6, I’m not going to remember.
00:55:46:43 – 00:56:05:24
Agent Palmer
So to me, that makes it a cool experience, because everything even from like the latter part of phase two has been based off of previous knowledge. They’re not good standalone. It’s one of the reasons that I’m still amazed that Infinity War broke all those records, because Infinity War has.
00:56:05:29 – 00:56:06:52
Agent Palmer
No.
00:56:06:57 – 00:56:13:06
Agent Palmer
Value. If you haven’t watched the decade of movies leading up to it.
00:56:13:11 – 00:56:31:17
Sara Netzley
That is a really interesting point, and I think honestly, part of it is just McLuhan was writing in the 80s and our our entertainment was not like that. And so I do wish that some of these dead white men were still with us to comment on, you know, to, to, to interact with, with the internet and with streaming and with on demand and things.
00:56:31:17 – 00:56:46:52
Sara Netzley
And I just, I wonder what they’d make of it. Possible. I would hate it all. And McLuhan might roll with it a little better. But that’s a really interesting that it’s not just the visual of a sound or how you interact, but you have to pull together. Wait, where did we leave Captain Marvel or what would it be like?
00:56:46:57 – 00:56:50:04
Sara Netzley
Why is Captain America fighting with Tony Stark?
00:56:50:04 – 00:56:50:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I just.
00:56:50:50 – 00:56:51:17
Sara Netzley
Yeah, that.
00:56:51:18 – 00:57:13:48
Agent Palmer
There’s a lot of. Yeah. And, you know, I think most of the movies that I watch are, are a, a hot experience because I, if I want to watch a movie and I’m not talking comfort movies, right. Like I’ll put on twister just to relax like that’s fine. Now, you know, now same core. Yeah.
00:57:13:52 – 00:57:36:12
Agent Palmer
Like it’s fine, but like that, that’s never going to. But but I also know that if I want to watch a movie in the summer in my house, I have to wait until 10:00. Yeah, because the sun’s to go down, and and and because of where my living room is and my TV, no matter what, I don’t have blackout curtains, which I guess would change some of that.
00:57:36:12 – 00:57:40:56
Sara Netzley
I was going to say, why don’t I have blackout? Why don’t we have blackout curtains? They make them up because.
00:57:40:59 – 00:57:44:57
Agent Palmer
Because we’re old and we want to see the sun.
00:57:45:02 – 00:57:52:14
Sara Netzley
That’s true. Also, they’re not cute. I want cute curtains. And blackout curtains are not cute. So you know that maybe is my. Excuse me?
00:57:52:23 – 00:57:54:20
Agent Palmer
Excuse the pink curtains right behind me.
00:57:54:23 – 00:58:00:19
Sara Netzley
I mean, look at that. It’s cute. They’re cute.
00:58:00:23 – 00:58:04:39
Agent Palmer
You.
00:58:04:44 – 00:58:28:41
Agent Palmer
So it’s been 77 episodes, 78, including this one. And this is going to be the first time I talk in the outro. As a preface to the one final question that those of you who have been here know to stay for, and those of you who are new, hi, welcome, should stay until the end to listen for in this one final question, we discussed baseball and the now late, great Vin Scully comes up in that discussion.
00:58:28:46 – 00:58:47:16
Agent Palmer
News of his death was something that we learned only moments after finishing up the recording of this episode, and I thought it would be better to say something here than have anyone ask why we didn’t discuss his legacy. You don’t think about death until it confronts you or those you know and love. Vin Scully was known and loved.
00:58:47:21 – 00:59:05:51
Agent Palmer
He turned me into a Dodger fan, but I knew him as one of the purest voices in baseball for me. He was up there with John Miller, who was the voice of the Baltimore Orioles during my most formative years, falling in love with the game. Vin Scully will never be replicated or replaced, but he will also never be forgotten.
00:59:05:56 – 00:59:28:48
Agent Palmer
You’re about to hear me talk lovingly about a game I love, but also you’re about to hear me talk lovingly about him in the one final question, and know that it comes from the same place that everyone else comes from. We all thought we were watching a ball game with Vin. It wasn’t the World Series, it wasn’t a Dodger pennant race, and it certainly wasn’t the voice of an entire franchise.
00:59:28:53 – 00:59:53:29
Agent Palmer
It was just us and our friend Vin. He will be missed. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 78. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Adrian Palmer, my guest, Professor Sara Netzley at Sara Netzley.
00:59:53:29 – 01:00:19:34
Agent Palmer
That’s Sara and Etsy ly or at Sara Whitney underscore that’s also without an H. And this show at the Palmer files. You can find more information about Sara professionally at Sara Netzley dot com or as an award winning author at Sara whitney.com. Again, that’s Whitney. My email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things.
01:00:19:34 – 01:00:32:37
Agent Palmer
Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
01:00:32:41 – 01:00:40:07
Unknown
You see?
01:00:40:12 – 01:00:58:21
Unknown
You see?
01:00:58:26 – 01:01:03:00
Unknown
Me.
01:01:03:05 – 01:01:09:16
Unknown
She’s.
01:01:09:21 – 01:01:11:44
Agent Palmer
All right. Sara, do you have one final question for me?
01:01:11:48 – 01:01:30:59
Sara Netzley
I do. I recently have become a baby baseball fan. And in that, I mean, I’m actually watching baseball. I know the names of players. I’m keeping track of standings and things. I can talk your head off about Aaron judge. So I guess my my question to you is I like the stories, I like the personalities, I like the conflicts.
01:01:30:59 – 01:01:49:54
Sara Netzley
I like the he’s a third generation, you know, his his dog is named Jeter. Whatever. Can you make me an Orioles fan in 30s? Can you dig up Orioles lore? Legacy, current players, past players? That makes me have a soft spot to where if the Orioles are on, I will flip them. I don’t watch.
01:01:49:54 – 01:01:59:51
Agent Palmer
Them. All right, before I before I ask, answer this question. Are you really following the Yankees right now? I am, and I think it’s because it’s because of Tanya.
01:01:59:56 – 01:02:00:22
Sara Netzley
Yes.
01:02:00:23 – 01:02:43:11
Agent Palmer
Okay. So the the short answer. Absolutely not. The short answer. Absolutely not. Because here’s the thing you got to remember. All right. So, I absolutely adored. And when we talk about journalism in the episode and when we talk about storytelling and how things are presented in the media, I thought, man in the arena, the Tom Brady ESPN doc, even though it was autobiographical, basically, I thought that was beautiful as an a, a next generation era of This is How you tell an autobiography of a sports guy who’s basically got his entire career on TV.
01:02:43:25 – 01:03:00:05
Agent Palmer
Like, yeah, you can read a book about Tom Brady, and they can talk about this fumble and that interception, but all of that is documented on TV. We could we can do it better in a visual medium. Derek Jeter has a series out right now called The captain.
01:03:00:05 – 01:03:01:13
Sara Netzley
The captain and I in.
01:03:01:13 – 01:03:01:38
Sara Netzley
Watching.
01:03:01:38 – 01:03:28:12
Agent Palmer
It in in in the promo for episode one is a home run that was hit in 1996, in the ALCS against the Orioles, where Tony Tabasco had a ball, the Jeter hit stolen by a fan that in today’s era of replay, would have not been called a home run. And so the Yankees don’t win game one of that series, and now it’s only game one.
01:03:28:12 – 01:03:49:40
Agent Palmer
And I understand that any, any number of things could happen. But if you’re already on the Yankee train, I’m not going to convince you. Now, here’s what I will tell you. This this isn’t just the Yankees. I think if you were a Blue Jays fan or a Red Sox fan, anybody in that division, it’s going to be hard to get you.
01:03:49:45 – 01:03:50:04
Sara Netzley
Okay?
01:03:50:15 – 01:04:17:45
Agent Palmer
However, I could turn you into a Padres fan. That’s pretty easy. They’ve been okay. You know, there are other teams like you. You could. I think you could pick a National League team. But, like, I’m. One of the things that makes it hard for me is I am personally involved. Like, like the Orioles are my team, but I’m also a baseball fan, so, like, I can talk about all of it.
01:04:17:49 – 01:04:34:15
Agent Palmer
Even the Yankees. I don’t like it, but I can still talk about the A’s. Like like good for like for this year. Good for Aaron Judge turning down all that money, betting on himself. And at this moment in time, winning, which is not common in sports period.
01:04:34:20 – 01:04:41:32
Sara Netzley
So he’s hit so many home runs and it’s only August, early August. I mean, I mean.
01:04:41:37 – 01:04:56:13
Agent Palmer
So so here’s here’s a question for you. I mean, Aaron Judge hit his 42nd home run. Have you seen 42 like like has Tanya, gone through like the all the have you watched all the baseball movies? Like every.
01:04:56:15 – 01:05:06:21
Sara Netzley
You know what I don’t think I don’t think we have I did watch her copy of. Oh, gosh. Stealing stealing home. Okay. Which is not like Major league, but, you know, it’s it’s baseball ish.
01:05:06:21 – 01:05:08:39
Agent Palmer
I mean, look, Bull Durham is still one of.
01:05:08:54 – 01:05:09:28
Sara Netzley
Obviously.
01:05:09:39 – 01:05:13:26
Agent Palmer
The better, baseball movies, period.
01:05:13:30 – 01:05:18:43
Sara Netzley
What is the terrible, terrible Freddie Prince Jr. Summer?
01:05:18:43 – 01:05:20:30
Agent Palmer
Oh,
01:05:20:35 – 01:05:22:16
Sara Netzley
Summer League summer. Yeah.
01:05:22:16 – 01:05:22:59
Agent Palmer
One of those.
01:05:22:59 – 01:05:28:48
Sara Netzley
Yeah. Summer League. No, I mean, I’ve seen the natural. I’ve seen A League of Their Own.
01:05:28:55 – 01:05:40:44
Agent Palmer
Have you rewatched any of these baseball movies since you’ve been watching baseball? Because what I have is I think Bull Durham will change for you. Now that you know a little bit of of the game.
01:05:40:49 – 01:05:44:45
Sara Netzley
I want to watch Bull Durham tonight. Now, you have inspired. Yeah.
01:05:44:50 – 01:06:04:56
Agent Palmer
But no, I think that and you know what? Here’s the other thing. It’s going back to your question. I wouldn’t want to try. Like if you pick a team and that’s your first team, that’s your first team. Like I know people that, like, grew up in Boston and moved away to like Texas. And they’ll go to a Rangers game, but they’re the Red Sox are still there.
01:06:04:57 – 01:06:26:44
Agent Palmer
Love like you don’t you don’t mess with somebody. It that’s if that’s what got you into the game. If that’s the team, if that’s the player, that’s that’s who it is. I’m not I can’t I can’t mess with it even though I hate it. But like, look, just because look, I mean, the Orioles are celebrating. Not horrible year.
01:06:26:49 – 01:06:47:17
Agent Palmer
They just won the equal of their games total from last year in early August. Right. Like so we’re doing okay, but we’re also in the same division as the Yankees and the Red Sox and the Blue Jays. And it’s like, so, you know, it it’s fine, it’s fine. I it’s, you know, that’s okay.
01:06:47:17 – 01:07:02:04
Sara Netzley
Well, listen, it was not the sales pitch I expect to see, but I think it was probably more honest. And I appreciate that. It’s really and I will say also, I mean, I live in Illinois, so obviously like the Cubs are first in my heart, but, I mean, the Yankees are more fun to watch.
01:07:02:11 – 01:07:28:46
Agent Palmer
So, you know what? It’s weird. The Cubs are cyclical in terms of being entertaining. And that makes them very odd. Because a lot of teams like the Orioles have been down for a very long time. They’ve had like two bright spots in the last couple decades. And this year they’re having, a decent season.
01:07:28:46 – 01:08:02:16
Agent Palmer
But like the Cubs, they win the series and then sell the team. And before that, it was just Heartbreak City. What you need to do and I this is my pitch for for baseball. If you can stay up late, especially next summer because I know schools coming up for you. But if you could stay up late, the West Coast, the NL West, the Dodgers, the Padres, the Rockies and the Diamondbacks are the best watch in all of Major League Baseball.
01:08:02:20 – 01:08:20:52
Agent Palmer
Yes, often the Dodgers are. The Giants will run away with it. But for the most part, that division. They all hate each other with a passion. Like every time you watch an NL West game and it doesn’t matter. It could just be the Rockies in the air and the Diamondbacks for like last place. They just hate each other.
01:08:20:56 – 01:08:33:59
Agent Palmer
They absolutely do. And the Dodgers and the Giants are like top tier. But guess what? The Dodgers and the Padres have had more brawls and more like entertaining. Like back story things. In fact.
01:08:34:11 – 01:08:37:26
Sara Netzley
That’s C that’s what I’m in it for. That’s what I’m in it for you.
01:08:37:31 – 01:08:58:15
Agent Palmer
There is I, I don’t remember, but I watched it recently. So one of the things about baseball for me is the voices. And I miss the voices I grew up with. And you get used to the voices that you hear on a daily basis, but you miss the voices you grew up with. And one of the things that may be a Dodger fan was Vin Scully.
01:08:58:15 – 01:09:25:43
Agent Palmer
He’s like the voice of all baseball voices, and I went through a YouTube rabbit hole recently where literally there’s just like Vin Scully tells you, the history of ties or like the history of mustaches or the history of beards. It’s it’s random, but you you will come across there’s like a 15 minute clip of a brawl between the Dodgers and the Padres early in the season.
01:09:25:48 – 01:09:41:08
Agent Palmer
And Vin Scully, like an 80 year old Vin Scully is describing this scene to you. He’s doing color commentary on the TV, but he’s describing it to you like it’s radio. And it is pure art. It is.
01:09:41:08 – 01:09:43:49
Agent Palmer
Gold.
01:09:43:54 – 01:10:01:06
Sara Netzley
I mean, forget Bull Durham, that’s what I’m going to watch. Seriously. Log off. Listen, if a year ago I knew I was going to say what I’m about to say to you, I wouldn’t have believed you. But I will say the Padres do have one Soto now, and they have my beloved Luke White. So the Padres might be the people I would the people.
01:10:01:06 – 01:10:10:23
Sara Netzley
See, this is where I’m not really a fan of anything. The team that I would watch in that division that hates each other. That little pocket division. That sounds incredible. Oh, I love it. Thank you for the advice.
01:10:10:23 – 01:10:27:38
Agent Palmer
One week ago. And there’s only one person on earth that can actually prove this. One week ago, a friend of mine was like, where’s Soto going to go? And I said, all points lead to the Dodgers, but don’t count out the Padres. I literally said that to him and he called me up and he said, so the Padres and I went, wait, I was right.
01:10:27:43 – 01:10:30:19
Sara Netzley
I sort of written down the sealed.
01:10:30:30 – 01:10:32:23
Agent Palmer
And oh man, yeah.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).