Episode 137 the return of Dave Hulegaard the musician behind Twelve Days in June.
We discuss front man caliber vocals and singing horror stories, revisiting old favorite albums, finding your comfort zone, making up for lost time, playing live again, and much much more…
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Listen to Twelve Days in June’s NEW album Hiraeth! (Spotify)
Twelve Days in June on YouTube
Twelve Days in June on Spotify
Twelve Days in June on Amazon Music
Twelve Days in June on Bandcamp
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
Photography Credit: Sara Wright Photography.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:03 – 00:00:29:20
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com. Shopping in jail offers quick trips back to the not so distant past. Never mind the sex, Portnoy’s Complaint is about finding yourself and keep an eye on that nerd Thing podcast feed for yours truly. This is The Palmer Files episode 137 featuring the return of Dave Hulegaard, the musician behind 12 Days in June. We discuss front man caliber vocals and singing horror stories, revisiting old favorite albums, finding your comfort zone, making up for lost time, playing live again and much, much more.
00:00:29:33 – 00:01:02:31
Agent Palmer
Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:02:36 – 00:01:22:43
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 137th episode is The return of Dave Hulegaard. The musician behind 12 Days in June, who, since his last appearance just a few months ago, has since released a new full length album, heareth. But that’s not quite why he’s back.
00:01:22:48 – 00:01:48:15
Agent Palmer
He’s back because after we recorded episode 132, I asked him a question about one very specific social media post he made. And since the recording was still running in his answer to that one question took us down some roads. We kept going and made another episode. The one you’re about to hear. It’s just happenstance and exciting that I also get to use this platform to tell you that his new album that he just released is pretty epic.
00:01:48:20 – 00:02:13:49
Agent Palmer
As for the episode, the post he made on threads that starts the episode is quote. Many moons ago, I came to the realization that I didn’t have front man caliber vocals, so I had a decision to make keep going, knowing I’d probably never make it or step aside for the sake of the band. Ultimately, I chose to keep singing because I love this all too much to give it up.
00:02:13:54 – 00:02:37:33
Agent Palmer
It’s authentically me. Take it or leave it. I don’t have a good voice, but I have a unique voice and I’m okay with that. Heart emoji. So with that as our starting point, you’ll hear us discuss our own singer slash frontman stories, especially some we’d probably like to forget, as well as dive into the process of writing songs, editing, and collaboration in music.
00:02:37:38 – 00:02:57:50
Agent Palmer
Reliving our favorite albums decades after we fell in love with them, and even admit to just how young we feel when we start playing our guitars. All of that and a whole lot more is coming your way shortly. But first, remember that if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all related ways to contact my guest, Dave and myself in the show notes there.
00:02:57:50 – 00:03:16:38
Agent Palmer
You can also find Dave’s music as 12 Days in June streaming on Apple Music, Spotify, Bandcamp, Amazon Music, Deezer, YouTube and anywhere else you stream your music. Go check out his brand new release here. If don’t forget, you can see all of my writings are rantings on Agent palmer.com. And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com.
00:03:16:52 – 00:03:24:44
Agent Palmer
So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:03:24:48 – 00:04:18:55
Agent Palmer
Dave, you wrote a while ago that you came to the realization that you didn’t have frontman caliber vocals, and I saw the comments and I kind of understand where you’re coming from. But the first few artists that went through my head made me feel like no one in the world doesn’t have front man caliber vocals, right? I think of, Dylan, who sometimes mumbles, sometimes talks through, and on mumbling, Tom waits, and then I think of, They Might Be Giants, which might be one of the few bands I can actually sing to.
00:04:19:00 – 00:04:33:07
Agent Palmer
And then I think of, like, you know, any number of other, like, more folky, admittedly, bands. But I also feel like you have to know your range.
00:04:33:12 – 00:04:33:32
Dave Hulegaard
00:04:35:12 – 00:04:49:33
Agent Palmer
When you came to this realization, like, were you thinking about, like, singer songwriter Bob Dylan, who, you know, it’s not the most melodic voice in the world. Dave.
00:04:49:37 – 00:04:52:40
Dave Hulegaard
00:04:52:44 – 00:05:18:19
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah. I mean, I think the, the story behind the thread that I had posted was really rooted in, I think, like more of the deep seated, low self-esteem you kind of struggles that I had, you know, in the earlier parts of my career. And when I wrote that thread, I was thinking about a very specific, gig that we had played that just didn’t go well at all.
00:05:18:24 – 00:05:38:51
Dave Hulegaard
And it still kind of haunts me to this day. I mean, like I said, I’m here I am in 20, 24 thinking about it still. But it was a really it felt like it could have been a pivotal moment in my young career because we were asked to open for this, this local band that I was really into, like, love this band.
00:05:38:52 – 00:05:58:40
Dave Hulegaard
And I was like, so excited and flattered to be able to play a show. And we, we opened for them. Didn’t play our best set. You know, I’ve got a million excuses in the world about the PA system and all, you know, of course, all all the things. But what happened was like, you know, usually you just shake it off, right?
00:05:58:40 – 00:06:26:36
Dave Hulegaard
It’s like. It’s like losing, losing a game of, you know, baseball or whatever, right? You just. You shake it off, right? Tomorrow’s another day. But what happened was the band that we had opened for got up there and just destroyed us. Like, just said the like most hurtful and like, you know, cruel things and and I let that stuff really affect me because again, like, I wasn’t the most confident person.
00:06:26:36 – 00:06:43:22
Dave Hulegaard
I’m not the most confident person now, but especially not then. And I hear I was like this band that I just sort of idolization is basically saying, you know, like, these guys are a joke, like they really shouldn’t be playing. They’re not ready.
00:06:43:27 – 00:06:52:27
Agent Palmer
Okay. Just like I’m going to I’m going to tell you a story. Please do. Okay. I am.
00:06:52:32 – 00:07:21:47
Agent Palmer
- Let’s go with 15. I’m in. I’m in, early high school sophomore. Maybe. I’m playing bass in a classic rock cover band. And somehow I got tapped to sing a cover of Jimi Hendrix Fire for a talent show. I’m a bass player.
00:07:21:52 – 00:07:22:34
Dave Hulegaard
Okay.
00:07:22:39 – 00:07:47:14
Agent Palmer
All right. I am not a front man. I, I did not it did not go well. I think I know all the words. And I had been on stage playing bass before. Not a problem. There’s like 12 people in the audience. It’s not like a big audience. I could not. I just could not do it.
00:07:47:19 – 00:08:17:17
Agent Palmer
I don’t know what it was. I could not the some I think the guitarist ended up, saving the act and singing on my behalf. And I will tell you, the opposite happened for me. No one made fun of me. It was never brought up again. And I honestly don’t know. Hearing your story, which happened in front of more people, I still don’t know.
00:08:17:19 – 00:08:26:01
Agent Palmer
I think I might have preferred somebody to crap on me. Then for it to just be like, well, that never happened. Or we just don’t talk about that.
00:08:26:06 – 00:08:27:25
Dave Hulegaard
We don’t.
00:08:27:30 – 00:08:44:50
Agent Palmer
They just. Okay. It it didn’t happen, right? Yeah. And it was I don’t I still don’t know how I was there because I. Those weren’t the guys I was usually playing with. So is is a fluke of many, many things.
00:08:45:00 – 00:08:45:18
Dave Hulegaard
00:08:47:39 – 00:09:27:39
Agent Palmer
It did not stop me though from, fast forward to college, being in a two man band and playing guitar and singing, while my roommate also named Jason. We didn’t have a clever band name. We used to just enjoy playing on campus. I so I would he would play drums and I would play a really, really fuzzy guitar, and we would just, play and I would sing, you know, like Green Day and, I don’t know, bowling for soup and other such things.
00:09:27:39 – 00:09:49:31
Agent Palmer
Right. And then, occasionally, like, there were a couple girls that enjoyed singing, so we did some whole, and we actually did some guns N roses, actually. Nice. Like they would sing Axl’s High Pass and stuff it like, yummy, but, I mean, and, you know, to Jason’s credit, my drummer. I’m not talking about myself.
00:09:49:31 – 00:10:21:01
Agent Palmer
I’m a third person. He did an amazing caricature of a British accent when we would do anarchy in the UK. Right? Like, he was just the best. Like, not real, but, like, still British caricature accent. Wonderful. Wonderful stuff. But I only bring it up because while we never spoke of that again in my high school, I didn’t let it stop me from singing later.
00:10:21:05 – 00:10:54:24
Agent Palmer
It’s only now that I’ll never get up in front and sing. I will sing backup for you. While playing my bass or our rhythm guitar, I don’t think I’m going to be the front man. Singing and playing ever again. Especially in a two man band where there’s nowhere to hide. I think I’m a lot more. I think I’m a lot more concerned with, like, messing up in a way that, like in college, for some reason, like, there’s a lot going on there first.
00:10:54:29 – 00:11:17:21
Agent Palmer
But I was just like, I don’t care. Let’s go. Like I would, you know. I guess I guess this is what we’re doing. But I just it it it comes back to I’m not a front man, and I still did it. Like, so there’s a part of it where I do get where you’re coming from. And you had a bad experience.
00:11:17:26 – 00:11:47:15
Agent Palmer
But I also think of like but I did it. Like Dave I did it man. I sang in front of people and I’m not that good. So even on your worst day I don’t think you’ll be as bad as me. Cuz I’m a bass player. That’s that. I’m supposed to be behind. The fact that I even played the guitar in front or a side of a drummer.
00:11:47:20 – 00:11:50:14
Agent Palmer
I don’t know what possessed me.
00:11:50:19 – 00:11:50:35
Dave Hulegaard
Do you know.
00:11:50:35 – 00:11:56:48
Agent Palmer
What I mean? Like, I’m thinking back. I’m like. I’m not that. I’m not that person. Now.
00:11:56:52 – 00:11:58:06
Agent Palmer
Wow.
00:11:58:10 – 00:11:59:01
Dave Hulegaard
Know, like.
00:11:59:06 – 00:12:18:58
Agent Palmer
Oh, boy. But I think you found your place like that in the new music. You’re not trying to be Axl Rose, you know what I mean? Like you’re not trying to be Bob Dylan. You’re. You’re singing in your register. You’re not like, oh, I’m just going to play up in a D. You’re like, no, I can sing down here in a, it’s fine.
00:12:19:12 – 00:12:20:05
Dave Hulegaard
00:12:20:10 – 00:12:22:49
Agent Palmer
I you know I just made those up by the way I don’t actually.
00:12:22:50 – 00:12:24:02
Dave Hulegaard
Know music.
00:12:24:02 – 00:12:43:50
Agent Palmer
Theory. I don’t want anybody to think like that. I know what I’m talking about. But like you know when you were writing this stuff you ended up writing it for you whether you were doing it on purpose or not. Right. Like you don’t. You didn’t. Did you write any of it thinking like I might hand this off to a real singer?
00:12:44:03 – 00:13:06:45
Dave Hulegaard
I wish I could tell you that thought never crossed my mind. But but, I mean, I think there, you know, there was definitely some of that self-doubt I. And, you know, but exactly to your point, like that, that moment, that bad experience was so pivotal because it’s what prompted our bass player to pull me aside and say, hey, man, should I call so-and-so to come sing for us?
00:13:06:49 – 00:13:26:29
Dave Hulegaard
And it was like losing the confidence of the bass player. It was like it was it was detrimental, you know, and like. But I had to make a decision. And that was the kind of the point of that post was that, like, I was forced for this to make this decision, right? Either own it and keep going because it means too much to me not to or hand it off to someone else.
00:13:26:29 – 00:13:46:38
Dave Hulegaard
And ultimately I couldn’t like, even if it meant we were going to hire Bono or somebody to come sing for us. Chris Martin, I don’t know. Yeah. Like it just it was it it. No matter how much better it might have made the band sound, it wouldn’t have been me anymore. And, like, I couldn’t do it.
00:13:46:48 – 00:13:56:54
Dave Hulegaard
So I just had to, like, dig deep, keep going. And. And that’s kind of led me to where I am today. Like, just owning my voice, however it sounds. That’s what I sound like.
00:13:57:01 – 00:14:18:06
Agent Palmer
So it does beg this very, very, very odd question, which is have you applied that to other parts of your life? Because obviously this look, we’re both human, right? That’s not neither of the two examples are our only failings.
00:14:18:07 – 00:14:20:43
Dave Hulegaard
Sure.
00:14:20:47 – 00:14:38:59
Agent Palmer
I haven’t really got up on stage that much since then, but I have, right? I didn’t let it stop me. But has that, like. All right. It’s either you or it’s not like have you, have you let that kind of, have you use that elsewhere. I guess maybe different situation.
00:14:38:59 – 00:15:02:20
Dave Hulegaard
But yeah I think I’ve, I’ve reached a point in my life now where I’m just kind of at peace with who I am and where I ended up in life, if that makes sense. And I, I am a product of like, you know, growing up at a, at a, at a time where, you know, people, I shouldn’t say at a certain, at a certain time.
00:15:02:20 – 00:15:24:45
Dave Hulegaard
I just like that time of our lives where our personalities are being formed. Right. And and like being on the, the opposite end of the cool kids. Because you just convince yourself, like, that’s where I want to be. I want to be like, what, the cool kids. And when you’re not, it just kind of helps develop you into this other person.
00:15:24:45 – 00:15:37:57
Dave Hulegaard
It’s like, okay, so I. I didn’t win the lottery. I’m not a cool kid, but who am I? And like that journey of self-discovery to get me where I am now. Like, I wouldn’t have changed a thing, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have wished to be a cool kid.
00:15:38:01 – 00:15:42:07
Agent Palmer
But I mean, music was part of that journey.
00:15:42:11 – 00:15:44:21
Dave Hulegaard
Absolutely. Yeah. And that. Yeah.
00:15:44:26 – 00:16:16:33
Agent Palmer
I I’m still surprised music didn’t make you a cool kid. I mean, it did. Look, I was, like, hi. It’s me. I’m the problem. I was the enigma, right? Like, I was in band, but I also ran across country. I kind of walked in every circle in my high school. So I wasn’t a cool kid, but I could talk to them, and I wasn’t a nerd, but I could talk to them.
00:16:16:38 – 00:16:18:27
Agent Palmer
I identified more with the nerds.
00:16:18:27 – 00:16:20:41
Dave Hulegaard
Absolutely.
00:16:20:46 – 00:16:39:06
Agent Palmer
But, like, I could still be a chameleon. I still can’t believe playing music didn’t put you there, right? Like, because I, I think if, like, did you play other instruments, like, were you in, like, the the school band, like marching band or any. That’s.
00:16:39:06 – 00:16:41:22
Dave Hulegaard
No, no, I just straight up guitar.
00:16:41:23 – 00:16:43:57
Agent Palmer
So then you weren’t labeled as band geek?
00:16:44:01 – 00:16:45:20
Dave Hulegaard
No, no. Wasn’t a band geek.
00:16:45:31 – 00:17:00:08
Agent Palmer
It’s just kind of like I’m. I’m just surprised because that would have been, you know, in my high school if you were in a band and not the band. Cool, kid. Like, just easy. Like easy street, you know?
00:17:00:13 – 00:17:22:41
Dave Hulegaard
I did run into a former, high school friend years later. Hadn’t seen him in decades. And he told me that when he first saw me in high school, he was terrified of me. Because I’m a tall dude. I’m about 64, and I hit my my growth spurt like, very early. So I was like, in high school at 64 and like.
00:17:22:46 – 00:17:48:26
Dave Hulegaard
But I was like so gentle, just a gentle giant. And he was he told me he’s terrified of me. If he saw me talking to, like, his group of friends or like our shared group of friends, he would, would leave, just go the other way. Until one day he saw me come to school wearing a Toad the Wet sprocket t shirt, and he said, there’s no way that guy could kick my ass.
00:17:48:31 – 00:18:07:26
Agent Palmer
To toads, one of those 90s bands I had to go back and discover, like I. I knew of them, but not very well, that that particular vein of 90s alternative, I want to say, I fell in love with that stuff.
00:18:07:31 – 00:18:08:10
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:08:10 – 00:18:16:58
Agent Palmer
But I didn’t fall in love with it at the time. Now, part of it is I am a little younger than you, so I feel like some of it is. I needed to grow up.
00:18:17:03 – 00:18:17:46
Dave Hulegaard
Sure.
00:18:17:51 – 00:18:45:39
Agent Palmer
To get there. And it’s also kind of like. I feel like it’s kind of like my my journey with Dylan, too. Like, the older I get, the more I appreciate the older stuff or the newer stuff Dylan has done. Reese Reese recently, who, you know, from the 80s onward. Right. Like from when he was a 40 year old and onward, that stuff I appreciate more.
00:18:45:40 – 00:19:25:55
Agent Palmer
I think there’s a lot of it that, you know, and I, I when, when I revisit this stuff and I try and musically I try and revisit like my favorite albums every few years because again, some of those albums, I’m older than the artists now, and some of them I’m not. Right. Like, it’s just that, you know, if you like bands that have been around for forever, if you like a Dylan or a stones or an Aerosmith, like let’s be real like they were still put this shit out at 50 and 60 and 70, right?
00:19:26:06 – 00:20:10:22
Agent Palmer
And we’re not there yet. Neither of us are there yet. So I feel like I revisit it as I get older because I’m not quite there yet, and I can appreciate it in a different way. And it’s just it’ll never be new to me, those bands. But that doesn’t mean the song’s not going to hit differently. Yeah, because of a death in the family or, you know, like, like a lot of that 60s stuff, given the turmoil of this country in the last few years, has taken on a brand new relevance that maybe had I listen to it 20 years ago, I would have been like, man, this is an interesting political song,
00:20:10:22 – 00:20:16:05
Agent Palmer
but it doesn’t mean anything to me. And now I listen to, I go, oh, this could have been written about yesterday.
00:20:16:16 – 00:20:17:04
Dave Hulegaard
Seriously. Like.
00:20:17:04 – 00:20:43:08
Agent Palmer
And so again, not going to be new to me, but like that new relevance I think changes a lot of things. Do you have like, I don’t want to say like, do you revisit your Desert Island albums often, but do you revisit them like, do you take the time to go like, oh, this is my favorite album, but I haven’t listened to it in a few years.
00:20:43:13 – 00:21:05:01
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s it’s, it’s a very interesting thought process, like you said, where you remember being 16 and this being your favorite album of all time and what it meant to you at 16. And then what does it mean to you at 40? And it’s different. Yeah, right. It’s different. It is. It’s so bizarre to me.
00:21:05:02 – 00:21:25:06
Dave Hulegaard
So my, my favorite band of all time is Smashing Pumpkins. And I think about Siamese Dream as, like the, the pinnacle of the sound that I love the most from them. Like, they, they’ve made a lot of different sounds over the years, but like that is for me. It’s like if I had to pick a spot to live forever in, like, that’s the one.
00:21:25:06 – 00:21:50:44
Dave Hulegaard
And I, I listen to it. Now in my 40s, Billy is, well, in his 50s now. And I think just trying to imagine, mid 20s Billy Corgan writing these songs, understanding sonically what he wants to do with them, how to make his guitar with layers and layers and layers, you know, create these sounds that were just so new and interesting.
00:21:50:49 – 00:22:17:24
Dave Hulegaard
And I think, God, when I was 26, like, I, I don’t even know, right? I was probably playing Guitar Hero. So it was it’s just really fascinating to go back and just just think about that mindset like it’s a great album. It will always be a great album. But he did that. It is mid 20s and it’s just endlessly fascinating to me to to kind of dissect it and think about it on that level.
00:22:17:39 – 00:22:48:12
Agent Palmer
To, to me that reminds me of, I’ve done some dives and there’s two bands in particular that I find the most fascinating when it comes to this. And like, I could include David Bowie if I wanted to, but I don’t. Because I want something a little more contemporary to me, and that is U2 and R.E.M.. Because if, if, if you could take away Bono and Stipe’s vocals.
00:22:48:16 – 00:22:48:49
Dave Hulegaard
00:22:48:54 – 00:23:07:51
Agent Palmer
And listen to each of those bands discographies, you would swear you weren’t listening to the same band like, because from album to album to album, they never retain the same Sonic, throughline.
00:23:07:56 – 00:23:08:36
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah, that’s.
00:23:08:36 – 00:23:34:58
Agent Palmer
True with the exception of those two voices that that’s it. And maybe those two bands as far as contemporary to us, those two fascinate me because I put out a show that I try and make the quality the same. And obviously the guest is always different, but I’m not trying to sound different.
00:23:35:03 – 00:23:35:25
Dave Hulegaard
You know what I.
00:23:35:25 – 00:23:38:16
Agent Palmer
Mean? I’m not trying to sound different every time.
00:23:38:28 – 00:23:38:48
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah.
00:23:38:59 – 00:24:03:59
Agent Palmer
And I don’t, you know, much has been said of their, their evolution. But I think part of the evolution is they were always trying to be different. And I take that as like, that’s good for them. I don’t know that I live in a space where I could do that, but do you think about that? Like you’ve put out multiple albums?
00:24:04:04 – 00:24:12:55
Agent Palmer
Do you think like, oh, I want to change this one completely up? This, you know, is that a is that in your mind when you’re writing?
00:24:13:00 – 00:24:40:53
Dave Hulegaard
Not for me. I think the musicians out there will probably know what I mean when I say you follow where the song is leading you. Right? So when you, you sit down and maybe you’re just warming up, maybe you’re playing something that’s already written. And to warm up, you just strum a chord that you’ve strummed a thousand times in your life, but for some reason, you’ve never strummed it this way or followed it with that chord.
00:24:40:58 – 00:24:59:29
Dave Hulegaard
And and all of a sudden it’s like it’s something new and interesting and you just kind of follow it, right? And my songwriting process is that everything starts off at a basic, very basic foundation. It’s usually on an acoustic guitar, and that’s when I sit with it and really get to know it. And it’s like, okay, what does this song want to be?
00:24:59:29 – 00:25:29:22
Dave Hulegaard
What is it telling me? It’s probably not. We probably don’t want to be an acoustic song. So what does it want? Like, does it want to be quiet in the verse, loud in the chorus? Does it want like a big, you know, trippy bridge, right? Like, like that’s how I get to know my songs. And I always wonder if that’s what it’s like for other artists because you mentioned two, really, you kind of iconic bands where you could strip away Bono from U2 and Michael Stipe from R.E.M., but you still have the edge, right?
00:25:29:22 – 00:25:52:25
Dave Hulegaard
Like kind of making U2 sound what it is. You still have Peter Buck making R.E.M. sound what it is, and I wonder, like what that process is like for for like, like big well-known artists, because I’ve read lots of interviews of Billy Corgan and he says, I knew where the band needed to be if we were ever going to become, you know, what we needed to be.
00:25:52:30 – 00:26:05:08
Dave Hulegaard
And that’s kind of what guided him to reshape their sound. I don’t think about music on that level. But I’m also not, you know, in the biz, so maybe it’s just different.
00:26:05:12 – 00:26:20:34
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, it’s possible. I mean, I guess the other question I would have is you sit with it, you nurture it, you finally lay it down on, into the into the program, and then you get to mix it.
00:26:20:38 – 00:26:21:02
Dave Hulegaard
00:26:21:02 – 00:26:49:50
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know how many people realize just how much control you have when you’re mixing something. Yeah. How much do you mess around. You know what I mean? Like you’re like, this sounds great, but just for the heck of it, what happens if I speed it up to double time or add like way too much reverb?
00:26:49:50 – 00:27:00:59
Agent Palmer
Like, do you mess around? And, I mean, do you play in the sandbox of the mixing suite or do you just again, let the song take you where it’s going?
00:27:01:04 – 00:27:22:36
Dave Hulegaard
You know, my my process personally, I kind of know my limits. Like as far as, like what my skills will allow me to do, I am endlessly in awe of like, younger, musicians that are like coming into it, writing music, producing, like doing all these things and understanding music on a level that I could have never even imagined.
00:27:22:41 – 00:27:49:54
Dave Hulegaard
So for me, I’m like, okay, I feel very confident in the songwriting. I feel very confident in the recording, what I want it to sound like. But I stop there and like, I want to put the trust in a mixing engineer to help me make the song sound as good as it can. And what I usually do is I will send a mixing engineer an overabundance of layers and say, this is my sound, right?
00:27:49:54 – 00:28:17:19
Dave Hulegaard
Like I am a stacking and layering kind of artist. Like to get that quality of sonic guitar driven sound that I want. And I say, you know, hey, I’m giving you too much. I know I’m giving you too much, but I encourage you to blend and like, really play with these layers. And I think that that has led me to create some of the best songs I’ve ever written, like within the last year or so.
00:28:17:24 – 00:28:28:19
Dave Hulegaard
And I hope that it’s what will continue to keep me, producing at this level. I just, I hope I never start working backward from here.
00:28:28:24 – 00:28:46:24
Agent Palmer
Well, I guess so, I guess. Where where do you find these mixers? And I guess maybe more important, why aren’t you, like, over their shoulder trying to learn so you can do or do you have no interest? I guess you know, like where does where you fall on that?
00:28:46:29 – 00:29:11:18
Dave Hulegaard
You know, it’s it’s a good question. I think that I’m, I’m comfortable with the level of knowledge that I have. Okay. I get a little intimidated when I start looking at like the various, levels that go into mixing and, and like, it’s an art form all its own. And I have nothing but respect for the people that have the drive and dedication to learn it.
00:29:11:23 – 00:29:25:43
Dave Hulegaard
You know, breathe it and, and create amazing things with it. But it’s like, I, I’m happy to be the one that’s hiring those people so that they could use their talents. And I can focus entirely on the songwriting.
00:29:25:48 – 00:29:51:29
Agent Palmer
Okay. I mean, because I, I that’s where my first real like, maybe that’s what I want to do came to, and it never came to fruition. But like, there was a part like teenager me was like, maybe I just want to be a producer. Like, maybe I just want to sit on the other side of the glass and play with the big board.
00:29:51:31 – 00:30:04:32
Agent Palmer
Like, maybe that’s what I want to do. But I never really got to really play with anything. But I’ve spoken to people that do, and it seems like fun.
00:30:04:36 – 00:30:05:21
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah, but.
00:30:05:21 – 00:30:29:09
Agent Palmer
I’m with you in that it is kind of overwhelming in that you sit down and it’s like, well, what do you want to add here? I was like, oh, you know, being the idiot, like what can I add. Well anything there’s like, oh hold on, I’m paralyzed by the tonnage of making a decision where anything is possible.
00:30:29:20 – 00:30:56:55
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I don’t know that I, and I think a lot of the people that are great at it have just done it for forever. And so they kind of know the things. Yeah. I just, you know, I, I’m, I’m just in awe because like, you know, I don’t if I did write a song, I don’t know that I could hand it off like the closest thing I have to that is this podcast.
00:30:57:00 – 00:31:18:58
Agent Palmer
And I edit this podcast because I, I was here, right. Like, I think there’s a it’s like it’s not the same, but it feel like it’s similar where it’s like I was here. So I know, like where I screwed up. I know where my breath is going to be. You know, I can I can move things a little bit, right.
00:31:19:03 – 00:31:44:28
Agent Palmer
And tweak it in a way that if I handed it off to somebody else, they’d have to listen to it. They weren’t there, right? Maybe there’s something they’re missing. And that’s the thing where it’s like, that’s where you handing it off, like, amazes me in a way, because I’m like, I don’t. There’s a level of control of what happens when you do hand it.
00:31:44:28 – 00:31:45:24
Dave Hulegaard
Off, right?
00:31:45:24 – 00:31:54:56
Agent Palmer
Right to what you get back. I mean, is there is there a give and take, like, do you go back and forth a bit at least? So there’s a collaboration?
00:31:55:01 – 00:32:27:28
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah, definitely. There’s always like, like a period of revision. I usually try to give very detailed notes, like, before I hand anything off and I try to give references of, like, these are the bands like I’m really into or this is the sound I’m really into. And like, this was a big influence for me. Or like I’ve started doing research on like engineers where like, I’ll hear a song or, something will hit me like, I’ve a band I’ve never heard before and I’ll immediately go to the credits, which is something I’ve never done before.
00:32:27:28 – 00:32:45:18
Dave Hulegaard
And I’ll go to the credits and I’ll see, okay, who was the producer on this record? And then just do a quick Google search and see, is this like a, like a professional mixing engineer? That’s going to charge like thousands of dollars? Or is it somebody with some talent that is like, hey, I want to work with like small up and coming Indies like.
00:32:45:18 – 00:33:08:38
Dave Hulegaard
So I have a much more friendly budget. And when I find an album that just or are single, that just has a sound that I’m like, yes, like that’s what 12 days in June needs to sound like sonically going forward. And like trying to find producers that way has just been a huge, shift in like the quality of, of music that I’m putting out.
00:33:08:43 – 00:33:20:37
Dave Hulegaard
Just, I’m really happy with, you know, the approach I’ve taken and it makes me feel better that I never learned. Right? Like I didn’t learn. But there’s somebody out there that has. And now I benefit from them being able to work on my music.
00:33:20:49 – 00:33:24:23
Agent Palmer
So, Dee, I mean, you said you listen to music all the time.
00:33:24:30 – 00:33:25:06
Dave Hulegaard
Yep. All the.
00:33:25:06 – 00:33:40:37
Agent Palmer
Time. So will you, like, stop in your tracks? Like, do you listen passively but you’ll still be like, oh, I like that sound. I have to stop what I’m doing. And research it then. Or like, is it a different kind of listening for you when you’re looking for a producer?
00:33:40:41 – 00:33:59:44
Dave Hulegaard
You know, I think it’s something that stops me in my tracks. Like, even if I’m listening, listening passively, like I’m still kind of absorbing it, but like, once in a while something will just like, cross my path where I’m like, you know, like, that’s it’s like that again, that light bulb moment, where I’m like, that’s the sound.
00:33:59:49 – 00:34:29:42
Dave Hulegaard
And there’s a band. Relatively, relatively new. I think there are like only a couple of years old called present. And they’re currently on tour right now, opening for soft Cult, which is another just absolutely amazing band. But these are like younger bands that are influenced by, I’m going to assume, like the grunge, you know, alternative era of music and kind of doing their interpretation of it in like a modern, in a modern way.
00:34:29:47 – 00:34:54:16
Dave Hulegaard
But this band present just put out an album a couple months ago called Silver Linings. I highly recommend anyone who likes, guitar forward rock music like it is a sonic masterpiece. And when I found out who the producer was, it was able to. You kind of generate the sound, and reached out to him and he was very accessible and and very affordable.
00:34:54:16 – 00:35:04:01
Dave Hulegaard
So I’m excited that he’s actually producing my next album. And I just I can’t wait to unveil it to the world.
00:35:04:06 – 00:35:14:36
Agent Palmer
So it. I can’t believe I haven’t asked this yet, but do you want to play in front of people again?
00:35:14:41 – 00:35:45:47
Dave Hulegaard
You know, if I could put together just a live show ensemble that I didn’t have to play by myself. And it’s not that I don’t enjoy just playing an acoustic show by myself, but it’s not representative of what I’m putting out. Right? If you go to Spotify, you go to iTunes or Apple, whatever. Like what you hear from 12 days in June is really difficult for me to distill down to its raw acoustic form.
00:35:45:47 – 00:36:15:44
Dave Hulegaard
And I can and I do, but it’s it’s not the experience that I want to leave you with in a live environment. So yeah, like, someday I would love to get out there and like actually play shows again. And I’ve been very inspired by artists like, like Honey Crush. She came to music very, very late, and I believe has only been playing now for like a couple of years and put together a band is doing a tour and it’s unbelievable.
00:36:15:44 – 00:36:23:41
Dave Hulegaard
I’m like, that is awesome. Like, that is that is the dream. And and like that is very, very inspiring.
00:36:23:45 – 00:36:49:16
Agent Palmer
So, so the albums and the creation is only part of it. Like you still do kind of want more I, I, I’m not I’m not saying like you two level fame since we’ve talked, you know, like I’m not saying that, but you do want to or at least play out, and have that live experience very different than the studio.
00:36:49:18 – 00:36:49:54
Agent Palmer
And obviously.
00:36:49:54 – 00:37:14:59
Dave Hulegaard
I do. Right. Like, I, I, I know I always say this, but inside of me is still that 20 year old that gave up. And I feel like sometimes he’s still in there trying to take the wheel. Okay. And like a lot of the things that I’m doing now is almost an apology for giving up and trying to make up for lost time.
00:37:15:08 – 00:37:32:42
Dave Hulegaard
So there’s still experiences to be had. There’s still experiences that I want to have independent of just putting out the best music I can. I would love to at some point be able to replicate it live and just put on a show for people. That would be fantastic.
00:37:32:47 – 00:37:55:44
Agent Palmer
All right, I, I say this quite a bit actually. When I talk to musicians, when I strap on a bass, I still feel like that teenager. Right? Like it just it comes back and then my skills are much better. Now. I’m not great. My skills are much better now. Is that kind of like when you strap on a guitar?
00:37:55:44 – 00:38:00:48
Agent Palmer
Are you back to being the 20 year old? Like, is that the way you feel every time?
00:38:00:48 – 00:38:26:31
Dave Hulegaard
Okay. Every time. Like, I, I just feel like there’s so much I could have done differently, but I can’t live in, you know, you can’t live in that world. This is this is these are the decisions that were made. So what I can do is get myself back on course and, and that’s, that’s really what this resurgence of 12 days in June has been about.
00:38:26:45 – 00:38:30:07
Dave Hulegaard
It’s getting back on course.
00:38:30:12 – 00:38:34:53
Agent Palmer
Now I know on your Spotify you’ve done some collaboration.
00:38:34:58 – 00:38:35:44
Dave Hulegaard
00:38:35:48 – 00:38:47:10
Agent Palmer
Was that another one of those things where it’s like I think I want to experiment like let’s bring somebody else in. Or was it just like a happy accident, like you know.
00:38:47:15 – 00:39:08:28
Dave Hulegaard
It’s something that I’ve been finding a lot of in the threads musician community is that you have folks that just want to make music, and we’re all kind of tethered by this shared love of wanting to make music. And there’s never, a lot of like, bickering about it. It’s like, hey, so-and-so, I’m a big fan of your music.
00:39:08:28 – 00:39:33:05
Dave Hulegaard
Like, why don’t we try to do something together? And they’re like, yeah, let’s do that. So like, I had an opportunity, when I made La Luna, my, my previous album, to work with this guy Tim, who performs under the name He’s Not Your Kind. Who is just a phenomenal, phenomenal musician and such a good dude. I just really love this dude, love his music.
00:39:33:10 – 00:39:53:57
Dave Hulegaard
And I thought, there’s not a chance in hell he’s going to want to collaborate with me. Like this guy is playing with like, ex-members of failure. He’s had his music compared to like, bands like hum, like just really amazing stuff. And I just asked him and it was like the easiest conversation in the world. It’s like, sounds good, let’s do it.
00:39:54:02 – 00:40:23:14
Dave Hulegaard
And like, so we made the song happy, which ironically enough, it’s become like one of my more popular songs, despite me never releasing it as a single. It’s just like that deep album track that people have resonated with. So I’m a big fan of collaborating. I’m always flattered when people ask me, and I just had an opportunity to collaborate with, kid light bulbs on a really cool project that he did, which was a cover album of all his songs.
00:40:23:19 – 00:40:42:13
Dave Hulegaard
All the proceeds are going to charity, and he just kind of did it as a joke. Like, I would love to put out a cover version of this song by a threads artist, and suddenly ten, 20 people come along like, hey, I would totally do that. And me being one of them, and him and I had a conversation.
00:40:42:13 – 00:41:08:46
Dave Hulegaard
He suggested a song from his catalog and, and I just went at it and I gave it the 12 Days in June treatment. But it was so much fun. And that’s what the threads community has kind of given to me, is like that sense of like belonging and like being able to to talk to other musicians on a level where I don’t feel like I’m, like speaking out of school or that I don’t belong, you know, it’s it’s just been such a cool place.
00:41:08:48 – 00:41:17:17
Agent Palmer
It feels like the record store slash zine. Yes. Culture smashed back into one.
00:41:17:26 – 00:41:18:31
Dave Hulegaard
Absolutely.
00:41:18:36 – 00:41:50:40
Agent Palmer
Because we don’t have that really anymore. Like, what? The last record store I was in was quiet like it was almost a library, right? It just wasn’t like, I know everybody goes to this, but it wasn’t high fidelity, right? Like, it wasn’t like there’s no Jack black there. There’s no Cusack, so there’s nobody who’s playing ridiculous music and berating customers based on what they watch.
00:41:50:40 – 00:42:14:44
Agent Palmer
I think part of that’s the culture, I also feel like we miss a little bit of that, like some of that’s a little, you know, I go back specifically like when we talk about record stores, like I think of Empire Records. Oh yeah, specifically because as movie soundtracks go, Empire Records might be the most eclectic movie soundtrack of all time.
00:42:14:44 – 00:42:17:01
Dave Hulegaard
That’s fair.
00:42:17:06 – 00:42:47:34
Agent Palmer
I mean, the soft is pretty soft, but war is on that too. And it’s like, okay, this is massive as far as things, but like, I, I know those days aren’t coming back. So if, if threads can have some of that for you. And if I can be a fly on the wall and just intake as much or as little of it as I want, like that’s great, I like that that exists.
00:42:47:39 – 00:42:57:31
Agent Palmer
But you’re just going to keep churning out stuff right. So like you know album you know album album album album album. Right.
00:42:57:36 – 00:43:23:15
Dave Hulegaard
Albums might slow down after my next one, but, but I’m definitely going to continue, you know, like, with various songs and, and who knows, right. Like, I might find myself writing quickly and you want to put out another big collection, but I think 2024 has been my biggest output of of music yet. And not just like in terms of volume, but in terms of quality.
00:43:23:15 – 00:43:28:50
Dave Hulegaard
And that excites me about where can I go from here? Like what? What else can I do but you?
00:43:28:55 – 00:43:34:57
Agent Palmer
You have a full time job, I do, yes. All of this is nights and weekends.
00:43:35:02 – 00:43:36:03
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah.
00:43:36:08 – 00:43:50:25
Agent Palmer
And do you have, do you give yourself, like, a curfew? Like, you know, because I. Look, I’ve been in that creative space, right? It’s 1:00. I have to work tomorrow, right? Like.
00:43:50:29 – 00:43:50:56
Dave Hulegaard
You know.
00:43:50:56 – 00:43:59:13
Agent Palmer
It’s just like, maybe I should stop now, but I kind of want to lay down this track again. And now it’s 3 a.m., like, how are you with yourself?
00:43:59:18 – 00:44:16:52
Dave Hulegaard
I’d say disciplined for the most part. Okay. I, I do try to give myself, like, a window so that I’m not, I don’t know, like, you hit a point where you just you’re you’re like, you feel that stress of, like, all the time limit is expiring. And I haven’t accomplished what I wanted to do today, and I don’t want to be there.
00:44:16:52 – 00:44:32:18
Dave Hulegaard
So I mostly just give myself a window and just say like, hey, today, like I’m just going to sit down. I’m going to tinker around with some chords. Let’s see what we come up with. And if I come away with a sketch recording and that’s all I get today. Awesome. I’ll come back and revisit that sketch next time.
00:44:32:18 – 00:44:39:32
Dave Hulegaard
You know, I, I just, I try to like, not put too much pressure on myself, because it’ll happen. It’ll happen.
00:44:39:37 – 00:44:57:33
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I mean, it. I that’s good because I feel like it. I’ve talked to a lot of creatives and the tendency to not even, you know, the like, oh, I didn’t get what I wanted done today because I feel like we’ve all been there.
00:44:57:37 – 00:44:57:57
Dave Hulegaard
00:44:58:46 – 00:45:09:04
Agent Palmer
But the tendency to go too far, you know, the I got the track down but it’s not quite right. It’s like yeah but it can wait till tomorrow.
00:45:09:15 – 00:45:10:01
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah. Exactly.
00:45:10:13 – 00:45:27:39
Agent Palmer
And I think part of that age I don’t, I don’t know that the 20 year old in you is willing to accept that it can be done tomorrow. But the you that you are now definitely recognizes that it can be done tomorrow.
00:45:27:54 – 00:45:39:54
Dave Hulegaard
Yeah. And I tell you, like, sometimes just stepping away and coming back with fresh ears makes all the difference in the world.
00:45:39:58 – 00:46:09:36
Agent Palmer
You. In the film Jurassic Park, John Hammond says creation is an act of sheer will. And while writing songs and creating an album or this podcast may not seem to be in the same realm of creation, it truly is. And that Will takes a lot out of the creator. The balance and the space that is sometimes necessary to the process of creation is just as important as any other part of it.
00:46:09:40 – 00:46:39:18
Agent Palmer
So we’re not creating life or dinosaurs, but we are creating art, and that is almost certainly of equal importance. So if you’re a creator of anything songs, podcasts, poems, anything really, just know that while sure, sometimes it comes easy, you aren’t alone. When you’re frustrated and at an impasse, you’re just part of a noble club of artists and creators that have come before you, are all around you, and have yet to be.
00:46:39:22 – 00:47:01:26
Agent Palmer
Be proud of that. And if you’re not, know that this podcast and the music you listen to, the book you read and the movies and shows you watch, they’re made by people in that club to. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 137. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
00:47:01:26 – 00:47:21:32
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact my guest, Dave and myself in the show notes. There you can also find Dave’s music is 12 days in June, streaming on Apple Music, Spotify, Bandcamp, Amazon Music, Deezer, YouTube and anywhere else you stream your music. Please go check out his brand new album release here.
00:47:21:32 – 00:47:37:51
Agent Palmer
If the music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur, email can be sent to this show with the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:47:37:55 – 00:48:18:49
Agent Palmer
You you.
00:48:18:54 – 00:48:21:03
Agent Palmer
All right, Dave, do you have one final question for me?
00:48:21:04 – 00:48:49:09
Dave Hulegaard
I do, and I’m going to take you back to your awkward teenage years because we were talking about high school. We were talking about the cool kids, the nerd kids. And you said you were a bit of a chameleon, but you identified closer to the nerds. So I want to hear some nerdy stuff from you, like, I know that we’re similar in age, so you’re going to have memories of record stores and video rental stores and all that good stuff.
00:48:49:14 – 00:49:00:36
Dave Hulegaard
But like, what were you into, like, like back in those days? Like, what were the things that maybe you, didn’t feel comfortable sharing because you thought maybe you make me people think you.
00:49:00:41 – 00:49:45:24
Agent Palmer
So it’s weird because, entering high school, I was a worker, I think. I think it was 14. At 14 years old, I started working, I guess, under the table, at a, magic store. We sold Magic the Gathering cards. Had daddy, it had this. This is going to date at the most. It had three land networked computers with, quake, and Duke Nukem, and then Warcraft two Tides of Darkness.
00:49:45:24 – 00:50:17:22
Agent Palmer
And eventually in 1997 or 96, Diablo one, of course. And I think that that was the nerdiest thing. However, it wasn’t that nerdy because occasionally one of the cool kids that did play would come in, they weren’t regulars. I got kind of put to work because I was willing to. And it grew into, like my first real job.
00:50:17:22 – 00:50:39:59
Agent Palmer
But, it was just that that was probably the nerdiest thing the the the the the other nerdy thing happened the summer before that store opened is I went to summer camp, and that’s when I was introduced to Magic The Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons.
00:50:40:04 – 00:50:41:23
Dave Hulegaard
Right.
00:50:41:28 – 00:51:05:36
Agent Palmer
And it’s just kind of like, all right, you leave summer camp and you’re like, oh, I, I want to know more about this. And ironically, my one of my friends at the time had also discovered magic at the same time. I still do play. That was another one. When we talk about gaps where, like, I kept my cards, but I didn’t play for like 10 or 20 years.
00:51:05:36 – 00:51:17:33
Agent Palmer
And then I started to get back into it. And it’s a lot more dangerous to get into it when you have money than when you’re a poor teenager.
00:51:17:42 – 00:51:19:43
Dave Hulegaard
Yes.
00:51:19:48 – 00:51:36:38
Agent Palmer
So so that was the thing. And so that was the really nerdy thing from teenage me. However, luckily in my 30s, I discovered something even geekier podcasting.
00:51:36:42 – 00:51:36:58
Dave Hulegaard
Like.
00:51:37:02 – 00:52:05:43
Agent Palmer
And that’s the thing, right? Like at a certain point, I was the guy in the office always listening to something, but it wasn’t music. And it wasn’t talk radio. And, then, you know, you you tell these people, your coworkers that you are, you know, going home. You can’t go out because you have to go home and record or, you know, like, just like and show you become the geek.
00:52:05:43 – 00:52:28:51
Agent Palmer
And it’s just like, oh, any podcast question like, have you heard of cereal? Yes, I’ve heard of cereal. Or like, you know, like, so when podcasting finally came to the masses, that’s when people were like, oh, I know a guy. And ironically, that’s that’s what I get paid to do now because somebody knew a guy and that was me.
00:52:28:51 – 00:53:04:15
Agent Palmer
I was the guy. They were like, oh, I know a guy who’s in the pod. Yeah, fine. And so I always find these kind of geeky things. I think, you know, is Post Malone being a magic player really bringing it into the forefront? Probably not. But it’s not nearly as geeky as it used to be. Yeah, and there’s Dungeons and Dragons being a movie that did fairly well making it mainstream, I don’t know, but Game of Thrones kind of opened the door up to like, fantasy.
00:53:04:20 – 00:53:39:52
Agent Palmer
And Tolkien was taken away from just the geek crowd with Peter Jackson’s trilogy. So it almost feels like my music is now the geekiest thing I’ve got. But I will always identify as an outsider. I think maybe it’s not so much geek nerd or anything. I just I always feel like an outsider. Like the threads community you talk about on if with for music or, you know, maybe like a, small podcasting community here and there.
00:53:39:57 – 00:53:42:12
Agent Palmer
It’s not like I don’t feel I belong anywhere.
00:53:42:17 – 00:53:42:48
Dave Hulegaard
00:53:42:53 – 00:54:04:04
Agent Palmer
But as the society as a whole, I always tend to feel like an outsider. And I think to go back to your question, it goes back to high school. But like I, I can definitely talk to and interact with anyone. But I want to hang out with the outsiders. Right.
00:54:04:08 – 00:54:08:13
Dave Hulegaard
I don’t, I don’t want to hang out with the cool kids.
00:54:08:18 – 00:54:21:04
Agent Palmer
I want to do what those guys doing over there with that geeky thing or whatever. And I don’t I don’t know where that comes from. I don’t know if it’s I could have easily had best friends that were something else.
00:54:21:09 – 00:54:21:44
Dave Hulegaard
00:54:21:49 – 00:54:47:53
Agent Palmer
The ones that I ended up gravitating towards were the ones I ended up gravitating towards. But I don’t know. I just feel like. Yeah. No, I mean the Magic store. Pretty geeky. I was in every band like when we talk about high school, right. Like I was in concert marching, symphonic, jazz and pep. Right. And, you know, occasionally played bass on the weekend with some friends.
00:54:47:53 – 00:55:18:09
Agent Palmer
Right. Like, I was very much that music kid. But I was a cross-country runner, probably the geekiest of all athletic endeavors, right? Like, I mean, yeah, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve worn it pretty well and I’ve had glasses since I was in third grade, so I, I don’t, I don’t know, it’s just kind of. You know, on a, on a flat surface, even a marble will come to rest.
00:55:18:13 – 00:55:42:40
Agent Palmer
I will always come to rest with the outcast. It’s just I don’t know, it feels more comfortable out here, I guess. I don’t know, I’m not sure. And I don’t know how I got here either. That’s the other thing. Like, I can. I can make all these points, but I can still talk to the other people. I just, I don’t I don’t want to picture.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).