Episode 92 features Anthony “Tony” Rapino, co-author of the recently published Tommy and the Order of Cosmic Champions, but he’s also an artist that works with words, clay, paint, and well, any medium he can make the time for.
We discuss those many mediums, plus reading, writing, genres, college, physical media, and more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Where did the writing journey begin?
- In Love with Creation
- Horror and Horror adjacent
- Reading
- Blended Genres
- The moment of discovery
- Trailers
- Being a teacher
- Good teachers
- Don’t use writing and reading as punishment
- 80s Exchange
- Realizing your potential and limitations
- Collegiate expereiences
- Nostalgia
- Anticipation
- Tommy and the Order of Cosmic Champions
- Physical Media
- Used Book Stores
- Reading
- Finishing the book
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Tommy and the Order of Cosmic Champions is the 80s Nostalgia Dump I Needed
The Fast Food Pizza / Movie Connection
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:05 – 00:00:19:48
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dpt com. Love it or hate it, blond might be the best art film ever. Tommy in the order of Cosmic Champions is the 80s nostalgia dump I needed. And I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t thought about some larger written works more often since my conversation with Margot. This is The Palmer Files, episode 92 with Anthony Rapino, but please call him Tony.
00:00:19:59 – 00:00:39:52
Agent Palmer
Who is the coauthor of the aforementioned and recently published Tommy in the Order of Cosmic Champions. But he’s also here as an artist that works with not only words, but clay, paint and, well, any other medium he can make the time for. Really. We discussed those many mediums, plus reading, writing, genres, college, physical media, and more. Are you ready?
00:00:39:57 – 00:01:12:14
Agent Palmer
Let’s do the show.
00:01:12:19 – 00:01:40:01
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Polymer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 92nd episode is artist, professor and author Anthony Rapino. The first book of Tony’s I have read is his recently published Tommy in the Order of Cosmic Champions, which is an 80s, nostalgia rich book that looks at the world through the eyes of Tommy, an 11 year old where cell phones aren’t in every pocket and the internet is still on the horizon for basically everyone.
00:01:40:05 – 00:02:04:54
Agent Palmer
It’s an absolutely fun ride. We do discuss that book, but also writing in the writing process, art and finding mediums and the muse. Plus, we discover that our childhood and adolescent memories aren’t that different, considering this is the first time we had ever spoken to each other. You’ll hear us talk about nostalgia, horror, fantasy, reading, realizing your potential and understanding your limitations.
00:02:05:00 – 00:02:24:07
Agent Palmer
The magic of the used bookstore, writing things down on paper, and much, much more. Before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all contact information for Tony and myself in the show notes. You can find more information about Tony, his books, and many other projects at Anthony J.
00:02:24:07 – 00:02:57:22
Agent Palmer
Rapino.com. That’s Anthony and oh, and why the letter J wrapping dotcom Anthony J rapino.com. You can also see some of his nostalgic thoughts on 80s exchange.com. That’s 80XCHA ng wkyc.com Tony’s novel Tommy and the Order of Cosmic Champions is available. Ask for it at your local bookstore or order it online. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com, including my review of Tony’s latest book.
00:02:57:23 – 00:03:09:57
Agent Palmer
And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files@gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:03:10:02 – 00:03:17:43
Agent Palmer
Tony, I read your most recent novel, but it’s not your first foray into publishing.
00:03:17:48 – 00:03:18:48
Anthony Rapino
No.
00:03:18:52 – 00:03:24:56
Agent Palmer
So I wanted to ask, what got you into writing?
00:03:25:01 – 00:03:32:28
Anthony Rapino
That’s who you started off with a doozy. That that’s one of those stories that I can tell that that go on for for a while.
00:03:32:32 – 00:03:40:11
Agent Palmer
But where does it start? Because I’m. I’m guessing this starts long ago, when you were much shorter.
00:03:40:16 – 00:04:15:19
Anthony Rapino
Yeah. I’ve always you know what? And I know that I think I’m talking to a kindred spirit on this front, but I’ve always been, just in love with creation. Like creating anything, any kind of creative process, any kind of, you know, expression, self-expression or artistic expression. I’ve just been obsessed since a very young age. So, you know, I mean, I’ve dabbled in all kinds of art, and writing was one of them early on.
00:04:15:24 – 00:04:35:50
Anthony Rapino
I wasn’t great at it. I was probably terrible at it for a very long time. But yeah, there were stories early on. I think the first horror story I wrote was actually in elementary school when, my, my friends and I were obsessed with the, Bloody Mary story. Okay. You know, this is years ago, the 80s.
00:04:35:50 – 00:04:53:31
Anthony Rapino
And, you know, that was going around at the time, I guess. I don’t remember when that may have started, that particular, story of the Bloody Mary one, but. Yeah, I, we had to write a short story for school, and I adapted the Bloody Mary story, into, like, a little, you know, fictional thing. We.
00:04:53:42 – 00:05:17:40
Agent Palmer
I think we grew into being kindred spirits. I mean, look, I think all of us draw, and I think we’re all very excited, in, like, k through maybe eighth grade when they’re like, just doodle and you’re like, yes, yes, I, I’m not I’m not. I always wanted to be artistic in that regard. I was not good with a pen.
00:05:17:55 – 00:05:42:05
Agent Palmer
That wasn’t words until we got to like drafting. And they’re like, we want you to draw like the cleanest box or like trapezoid. You can. And I’m like this, I can do, I can get this, that, that. Like, I was good on that. And like, I’ve had like I still have like, I don’t know, something like a note from a teacher from way back when.
00:05:42:06 – 00:06:05:18
Agent Palmer
It’s like, you should be an architect. And I was like, maybe, I don’t know. That didn’t end up happening, but it wasn’t until I have a really good English teacher that takes me off the science math track and into, like, reading and writing. Yeah. And then it’s just I was never the I was never the horror guy, but I was always horror adjacent.
00:06:05:18 – 00:06:32:02
Agent Palmer
And what I mean by that is I ran around in high school with my friends with, like, a camcorder, helping them make horror movies. All right. We would watch horror movies to laugh at them and stuff, but it was never like it was always a group thing. Like on a on a on a any random given night. You set me down and say, here, pick a genre horror’s never going to be the genre I pick without like, friends or like you.
00:06:32:04 – 00:06:35:50
Agent Palmer
You know what I mean? I need somebody around me. They’re going to be like, let’s watch this horror thing.
00:06:36:05 – 00:06:53:58
Anthony Rapino
I hear you. You know what? That’s that’s a question to answer. Like, I don’t want to get too far. Yeah, but, at some point you could ask me how I got into horror because I, I don’t think that I’m, you know, I’m I’m a bit atypical, I think of, of most horror fans because you will get most horror fans will be like, oh, man.
00:06:53:58 – 00:07:05:09
Anthony Rapino
From like from age to I was watching Freddy Krueger, you know, and, that’s not necessarily untrue for me, but I didn’t self-identify as a horror fan until much later.
00:07:05:09 – 00:07:11:32
Agent Palmer
Well, I, I feel like I’m.
00:07:11:37 – 00:07:31:01
Agent Palmer
Personally, on a journey to potential horror fan. Okay. And I say that because I’m the kind of guy who has become obsessed with authors. There are authors whose catalogs and bibliographies I just want to read. I’ve fallen in love with the way they use words.
00:07:31:06 – 00:07:32:19
Anthony Rapino
Okay. Yeah.
00:07:32:23 – 00:07:35:44
Agent Palmer
And one of those authors is Clive Barker.
00:07:35:48 – 00:07:36:14
Anthony Rapino
Yes.
00:07:36:15 – 00:08:00:52
Agent Palmer
Accepting that I fell in love with Clive Barker, with Galilee and Weave World and the great and secret show. Like I fell in love with his fantasy. Now, granted, horror elements are there. But like I fell in love with his fantasy in college, I had The Books of Blood, volume one through three that was stolen by my roommate and I.
00:08:00:52 – 00:08:25:23
Agent Palmer
I I’ve never gotten it back. Now I will eventually because I’m collecting all of Barker’s stuff as I’m reading other authors and stuff. So I feel like I, I’m going to read more of his horror. But I think that the that’s the doorway for me because I love his writing. I like his style for fantasy and I know it’s different.
00:08:25:28 – 00:08:31:25
Agent Palmer
But like I think that’s my way in. And from there I can go any number of places.
00:08:31:29 – 00:08:59:54
Anthony Rapino
Yeah absolutely. You know, it’s funny because a lot of those more fantasy esque Barker novels are the ones that I started with as well, the Great and Secret Show. And of course, I mean, Books of Blood is essential reading, but I, yeah, I, I can see how that might be a gateway into, you know, and everyone has their own path, you know, and just because you you like some stuff that is horror adjacent doesn’t mean you have to get into horror.
00:08:59:54 – 00:09:18:40
Anthony Rapino
It’s, you know, but, I find that I like the blended genres a lot. You know, the, and not just in writing, but, you know, in the movies and art in general blended genres, gray areas where you sometimes you don’t know what you’re watching or reading. That’s fun. I it’s interesting to me.
00:09:18:40 – 00:09:53:23
Agent Palmer
I think it’s it’s one of those places that, I think occupies way too much time in my skull where it’s like. I, I try and go in as unknowing as possible to almost any endeavor. Books especially like books I and it’s one of the reasons I’ve kind of fallen in love with reading authors, because if I know I like the author, I don’t need to read the inside flap the back, cover it.
00:09:53:27 – 00:10:17:22
Agent Palmer
I’m like, let’s just go. And then because I’m a blogger and I review it, almost everything I read, I look at the back cover to see what like, I can get away with talking about. And it’s this moment of discovery that is so weird for me because I will like I, I picked up your book without reading the back cover.
00:10:17:22 – 00:10:37:25
Agent Palmer
I didn’t know much. I heard the Stan Bush song. Right. And it wasn’t until I looked at the inside flap and saw that the lyrics matched what’s on the inside flap that I really put together, like, okay, one of these things may have come first. Yeah. But like I, I was amazed at how it’s not just your book.
00:10:37:25 – 00:10:47:10
Agent Palmer
I think it’s publishing in general, but I’m always amazed, like, well, I’m so glad I didn’t know that because finding it out just on the page in the book.
00:10:47:22 – 00:10:48:02
Anthony Rapino
There was.
00:10:48:02 – 00:10:55:54
Agent Palmer
So I don’t know, rewarding is a bad word, but it’s the only one I can come up with. Like I found it on my own.
00:10:55:59 – 00:11:22:34
Anthony Rapino
It’s no, I there’s so much here to unpack too, that I want to I want to like, delve into every single aspect of what you just said. But yeah, first of all, I totally agree with you, and I’m absolutely 100% the same way in terms of wanting to go in completely blind to almost every entertainment experience possible. I was recently talking to a friend of mine, there, I think it was, rise of the Evil Dead.
00:11:22:34 – 00:11:24:15
Anthony Rapino
Is that the new Evil Dead movie? Yes.
00:11:24:20 – 00:11:24:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:11:24:54 – 00:11:38:28
Anthony Rapino
The trailer came out and they’re like, oh, you got to see the trailer. I’m like, I don’t watch trailers. And they got on my case immediately. They’re like, what do you mean no watch trailers? Like, I don’t want to know, I know I want to see the movie. Yeah, I don’t want I don’t want anything to be spoiled for me.
00:11:38:28 – 00:12:09:17
Anthony Rapino
And trailers have gotten very bad at that lately. I’ve noticed that trailers will tell you a lot, and I don’t necessarily want to know even a little, you know? So I, no, I’m I’m with you on that. And the same with, with, novels, too. You know, I have my favorite authors and I will very often just if I see they put something out that’s new, I buy it and I read it and having that, I wonder if that that discovery thing goes back to our you.
00:12:09:24 – 00:12:11:59
Anthony Rapino
I’m assuming you took a bunch of lit classes.
00:12:12:04 – 00:12:13:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:13:45 – 00:12:26:19
Anthony Rapino
I wonder if it has to do with with our lit teachers hammering in that idea of like being analytical as we read and discovering all of the hidden meaning and the deep dives, I don’t.
00:12:26:24 – 00:12:46:39
Agent Palmer
I, so that’s where my grades fell off, because I would get, I would get in trouble. And I tell this story all the time, and I believe it remains to be true, accepting that the process I have now for reviewing books is a process that, had I adapted it in high school, I would have been better.
00:12:46:39 – 00:13:09:13
Agent Palmer
But like, I would be like, yeah, I read the book. I’m not sure why the character did this. And then the teacher would be like, what was the name of his bike? And I’ll be like, I don’t remember. And they’re like, well, you didn’t read it so clearly you’re out. Like it was one of the and part of it was the teachers, you know, or the infrastructure or the system, whatever.
00:13:09:13 – 00:13:26:51
Agent Palmer
But like I, I can grab the concepts. And it wasn’t until I created a process by trial and error because I was like, I love this book. I want to write about it. Yeah. And so I’m going to give you a little bit I refuse to write in books.
00:13:26:56 – 00:13:27:16
Anthony Rapino
Okay.
00:13:27:18 – 00:13:28:01
Agent Palmer
Don’t know.
00:13:28:08 – 00:13:29:31
Anthony Rapino
It’s no annotating.
00:13:29:31 – 00:13:50:53
Agent Palmer
For you know the annotating is I take out my phone and I go page 32, bottom paragraph, last line. Yeah. And it’s in going back through those notes and typing them out in case I want to use a quote in my review or something that I then get to basically relive through my notes. The book again right.
00:13:50:53 – 00:14:05:24
Agent Palmer
And that makes reviewing it easier. Because I just get to like it’s almost like, the recap that we all want before every Marvel movie from now until the end of time. So they know exactly where we are.
00:14:05:29 – 00:14:06:46
Anthony Rapino
Yeah.
00:14:06:51 – 00:14:23:08
Agent Palmer
And so for that’s what it does for me, but I’m, I’m a blogger like, now, like I’m not a student anymore, so that doesn’t help me as much. But it was not something I was doing back then. So I’d miss those things.
00:14:23:13 – 00:14:23:35
Anthony Rapino
Okay.
00:14:23:40 – 00:14:44:39
Agent Palmer
And I think that I got frustrated at a certain point by being told, no, you didn’t read the material. No, I just didn’t soak up what you wanted to. And it wasn’t until I get to college again that I start reading like you. You can draw the line, right? Like I read Jurassic Park as a like 11 year old at summer camp.
00:14:44:48 – 00:14:45:35
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:14:45:40 – 00:14:47:25
Anthony Rapino
I think that’s around when I read it.
00:14:47:30 – 00:15:00:11
Agent Palmer
And then I stopped reading because of bad English teachers. And it’s not until college that I start, socially and for a hobby, start reading again.
00:15:00:16 – 00:15:25:38
Anthony Rapino
Teachers and school can ruin, people’s creative appetite. And I try to I try to talk to my students about this. In fact, the first essay that I’m going to be introducing to them in, next week probably is a literacy narrative wherein I essentially ask them to, reflect on how they became the the readers and writers that they are today.
00:15:25:42 – 00:15:52:01
Anthony Rapino
And there’s no judgment there. They could tell me that they hate reading, hate writing, and here’s why. And I encourage that. I want them to understand how they got here. Yeah. Because once we understand that sometimes moving forward can be different, it can change. We can grow some. And I’m not saying that every single person who doesn’t like to read or write, you know, has this deep seated reason for it, and that if they only can unlock that, they’ll become these great.
00:15:52:01 – 00:16:09:18
Anthony Rapino
Right? You know, it’s I’m not an idealist that says, but I do think a lot of people are just, you know, their teachers used writing and reading as punishment, or they were just given this homework assignment over and over again that they hated to read this, and they didn’t enjoy it, and they didn’t find their love.
00:16:09:22 – 00:16:39:37
Agent Palmer
You know what? I, I like that I finding your love. Which, by the way, I think that, I found my love of writing now finally like it’s been it’s it it’s ebbed and flowed. Right. And I have a friend whose book of poetry I’m editing who remembers high school. Me when I would write poetry with him and we would just, you know, sit like at it at, like after school and trade what we’d written that day instead of actually paying attention in class.
00:16:39:42 – 00:17:05:38
Agent Palmer
And like, he still gets on me, like, at least one time, once a month, at least once a month, like, hey, I know you’re writing. But when was you going to write another poem. Any time soon like, and, and because he’s in it and like I get to collaborate with him as like an editor and be like I, you know, ask him pointed questions and try and poke holes in for the sake of making it better and stronger.
00:17:05:43 – 00:17:21:09
Agent Palmer
He he he just keeps poking the bear. He’s like, come on. Like, when was the last time you wrote some fiction, right? Like, it doesn’t even have to be a rhyme scheme. Just when was the last time you wrote some free verse? You know, like. And so there’s these things that he’s like you. Come on, come on, come on.
00:17:21:20 – 00:17:41:59
Agent Palmer
But I. I’m in a comfortable place. Like, I think it’s it’s the place you never get in school. And I don’t mean that derogatorily. It’s just I’m in a position where I can write when I’m inspired. I have a weekly blog. It is drafted for the next, I don’t know, bunch of weeks I have time to play with.
00:17:42:04 – 00:18:04:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah. If I don’t get inspired for the next couple weeks, I’m not going to miss a blog post. And if I get inspired, I might get even further ahead. But I love that inspiration. And yeah, some of it’s forced. 3 a.m. in college. You have to write the thing because you have to write something, and there’s an inspiration in desperation as well.
00:18:04:38 – 00:18:07:42
Agent Palmer
But I don’t thrive on that like I used to.
00:18:07:47 – 00:18:31:50
Anthony Rapino
Yeah, yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m the same in that I need the space. And, you know, there are writers who write every single day and they’ll tell you that to be a writer, you have to write every single day. And I don’t agree with that at all. I, I don’t write every day. You know, I have a number of different creative outlets that I like to play around with, and if I didn’t have all of them, I don’t think that I would be very sane.
00:18:31:55 – 00:18:53:58
Anthony Rapino
But, yeah, I, you know, like, I, I started writing a novel this past summer and then my, the, fall semester hits and you get kind of, you know, bogged down with grading and other things. And I’ve been writing. I still write articles for, a web page called, the 80s exchange. And I still write, short stories, and I submit these things.
00:18:53:58 – 00:19:20:01
Anthony Rapino
But the novel took a backseat. And in between, I’m doing other stuff, you know, and I, I think that’s okay. We all have our own process. We all have our own writing process, our own creative process. And one of the, I think, one of the most destructive things, it forces that there is are other people telling you with certainty that you have to do it this way, otherwise you’re not the thing that you’re pretending to be.
00:19:20:06 – 00:19:45:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah, well, I it and that’s how we end up with a lot of people with, you know, you know, you know, I, I, I’m not a real writer, right? No no no no no no, you are, you are like, you don’t need to have the the million dollar advance to be a writer. The the the the doorway to entry for publishing has actually come down.
00:19:45:27 – 00:19:53:58
Agent Palmer
Despite people telling you how hard it is. It is hard. It’s not easy, but not. It also isn’t impossible. But.
00:19:53:58 – 00:20:02:15
Anthony Rapino
It’s not the hardest thing about writing either, right? Finishing the crazy thing about writing is that it’s not. Writing is not the hardest part.
00:20:02:20 – 00:20:29:22
Agent Palmer
Well, I, sometimes, sometimes I think finish a long term project and maybe you’re coming at it from I’m talking to you and you have published works of length and multiples of them. Meanwhile, I’ve got friends that like it’s the one novel that they’ve started 15 times, and it’s that I don’t know what that what’s that missing piece for some of these people.
00:20:29:22 – 00:20:53:33
Agent Palmer
And I love them to death. And I know they’re inspired when they start. And I don’t know if it’s that life beats them down or they run out of ideas like I don’t or, you know, maybe, maybe that should just be a short story. Maybe the fact that you’re shooting for a novel, it I don’t know what it is, but there’s so many people I know, the creatives that I’m surrounded by that cannot get the finished thing done.
00:20:53:38 – 00:20:58:06
Anthony Rapino
You know, I’ve been there too, though. I have an unfinished novel that I started.
00:20:58:06 – 00:21:01:46
Agent Palmer
And just hold on, hold on. Just one.
00:21:01:51 – 00:21:06:08
Anthony Rapino
Well, not counting the one. I started this, okay? Because I. I plan to finish it.
00:21:06:08 – 00:21:21:26
Agent Palmer
Okay. Well, I mean, look, I just, I just, I you’re a creative, right? And I just feel like if you’re creative and you don’t have a more unfinished projects than finished projects, then you know,
00:21:21:31 – 00:21:42:19
Anthony Rapino
I do have a file folder of lots of unfinished short stories. Those, for whatever reason, I’m more comfortable. Like abandoning, I think, once you’ve put a certain length into a work, you’re less likely to want to. Yeah, and I will if I get to a point where I’m like, no, this is, you know what, 30,000 words? And I it’s not working.
00:21:42:24 – 00:21:57:56
Anthony Rapino
It’s better to maybe put it away, come back to it later. Maybe. Maybe not. But yeah, I have a lot of unfinished short stories where maybe a sentence, maybe a premise that I was like, yeah, that’s a cool idea. And then I’m like, a couple days later, I.
00:21:58:01 – 00:22:12:35
Agent Palmer
Just for the blog alone, I have like, here’s a good starting paragraph. And then I lost the thread or like something happened and, like I save it. Maybe one day I’ll go back to it. But I wanted to ask you. You’re a teacher.
00:22:12:40 – 00:22:14:36
Anthony Rapino
Yes.
00:22:14:41 – 00:22:22:09
Agent Palmer
And a writer and an artist. If I go back to maybe 16 year old you.
00:22:22:14 – 00:22:22:32
Anthony Rapino
Yes.
00:22:22:44 – 00:22:29:58
Agent Palmer
Of all of the hats you could possibly wear right now, what’s the one you would have picked that you wanted to be?
00:22:30:03 – 00:22:43:08
Anthony Rapino
When I was 16, I was sure that I was going to be, a musician, a guitarist, a singer, in a band. I mean, that’s what I loved. That’s what I was spending my time with.
00:22:43:13 – 00:22:46:26
Agent Palmer
Okay. So. Yes. Kindred spirits, you and me.
00:22:46:30 – 00:23:09:16
Anthony Rapino
I mean, I even have the guitar sitting there. Haven’t touched it in years. No, not not that’s not your in months, but, it’s, you know, here’s my thing here, here’s. And it was something I had to come to terms with at a certain point in my life, but it was something that I think helped me in the long run.
00:23:09:21 – 00:23:33:34
Anthony Rapino
I was okay. I was an okay guitarist, you know, I did a couple, you know, I had my little bands and I did some open mics and people didn’t boo. It was fine. Yeah, but I hit a point where I realized I wasn’t going to get any better. No. No amount of practice, no amount of study, no amount of trying was going to get me past this point that I had gotten to.
00:23:33:39 – 00:23:53:55
Anthony Rapino
And, that’s when I shifted focus. And I said, I’m not going to be a famous guitarist. I can play, you know, and that’s fine. Yeah. I don’t want to completely give it up and never touch a guitar again. But, you know, I knew just the way you sometimes know these things that it wasn’t in the cards for me.
00:23:54:00 – 00:24:09:10
Anthony Rapino
And that’s happened the number of times with a number of different like I used to also be very if it was if I wasn’t going to be a famous guitarist, I was absolutely going to be a famous artist. I love painting and drawing. And again, it was one of those things that got to a point and I was like, you know what?
00:24:09:10 – 00:24:32:35
Anthony Rapino
I’m okay, but no one’s going to buy this stuff. No, I’m not going to be hung in museums. And I went through that process that same kind of like get to a point, realize, okay. And it’s not that I was giving up. It was that I had reached my maximum potential in that field. And I kind of knew, you know, what my capabilities were and I knew what my limitations were.
00:24:32:40 – 00:24:53:57
Anthony Rapino
And, I did that with guitar. I did it with painting, with drawing. With writing to a point. But then the writing stopped at a certain point for other reasons. I think I lost interest and forgot that I was doing it. Okay, to answer your very first question, since I’m kind of back around. Yeah, back around to this.
00:24:54:02 – 00:25:05:42
Anthony Rapino
I went to college. Now, remember, I’m an adjunct English professor. Okay? And a writer and whatever else. I went to college. Could you guess? What? Would you. What would you guess? I went to college for.
00:25:05:47 – 00:25:25:56
Agent Palmer
I’m going to guess, I’m at. We’ve been kindred spirits so far. Okay. Okay. So I’m going to guess that you, like me, had no idea what you were going to do. And you went liberal arts because you wanted to be as general as possible. Because that was my thinking.
00:25:26:00 – 00:25:51:02
Anthony Rapino
That that is a very good guess. I you are correct in that I had no idea what I actually wanted to do. Where where you’ve come a little short and your answer is that you forgot my parents who wanted who had an idea for me. Oh, and I was like, okay, whatever. That’s cool. They were like, if you want to make money, mostly my dad, if you want to make money, you should be a dentist.
00:25:51:07 – 00:26:07:56
Anthony Rapino
And I said, well, I do kind of like science. You know, I’ve always been okay in science. That’s it sounds like a an interesting plan. I went to school like my major was biology. Okay. When I first went to college. And I, a new kind of almost immediately that I wasn’t good at the stuff and I wasn’t going to do very well.
00:26:07:56 – 00:26:23:14
Anthony Rapino
But I also have this complex where I need to finish what I start. So I kept my even as my friends were like, you need to change your major. I was like, no, no, no. That kept going right up until organic chemistry, which if you know anything about, you know you’re not going to fake your way through. Yeah.
00:26:23:19 – 00:26:40:02
Anthony Rapino
At which point I realized, Holy crap, I need to do something here. So I, I didn’t switch my major because I wanted to graduate on time, because I still was young and had that complex as well. So I split my major rather than change my major, and I split it with digital media.
00:26:40:07 – 00:26:40:56
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:26:41:01 – 00:27:05:54
Anthony Rapino
So now I have, I have a degree. My my first degree is a bachelors of science in biology and Digital Media. But to answer the actual question that you asked is my final semester at college. I had a piss poor GPA because biology and digital media. Yeah. And, I decided to take a writing creative writing class to bump my GPA up.
00:27:05:59 – 00:27:17:21
Anthony Rapino
And I essentially slapped myself on the head in that class. I was like, what was I thinking? This. This is what I want to do. And from that moment on, I never stopped writing.
00:27:17:21 – 00:27:43:13
Agent Palmer
So it’s what’s funny is so I, I, I’m a liberal arts major. I switched to communications because you have to switch to something. Yes. And my last, my first semester was my crap semester. My last semester was a breeze, but I was living on campus, and because I was a bit of an overachiever, I didn’t need all the.
00:27:43:13 – 00:28:05:11
Agent Palmer
I only needed two classes to graduate. But in order to be a resident on campus, you needed at least four classes. So I needed two others to just maintain my resident status, which was fine like I liked. Living on campus is a small campus. It’s fine. So I’m filling out my senior year both semesters with like just writing courses.
00:28:05:21 – 00:28:30:07
Agent Palmer
Like just I don’t need them anymore. Like my my minor. One of my minors was feature writing journalism and that was already taken care of like by like my third year or something like that. So I took creative writing and script writing and like poetry, I think, and as I’m getting ready to graduate, I’m like, well, this is nice, but I’m never going to write again.
00:28:30:12 – 00:28:39:30
Agent Palmer
Like, like, I, I, I didn’t hate it, but I also was like, I think I’m done with I think this is the end of the road.
00:28:39:35 – 00:28:51:37
Anthony Rapino
That was the same exact thing I said to myself regarding school. When I’ve graduated college my first four years, I said, I hate education, I’m never coming, I’m never stepping foot in another classroom again.
00:28:51:41 – 00:29:09:53
Agent Palmer
Did you? Is that was did you not like college that like the the classroom part of the college that much? Or was it just like, I’m done with this because, you know, you, like me, went K through 12 and then we went, yeah, sign me up for a, you know, 13 through 17 or whatever.
00:29:09:58 – 00:29:27:16
Anthony Rapino
Yeah. It was mostly burnout because it was partly due to taking courses that I wasn’t interested in in the first place. You know, I took a bunch of stuff that was fun near the end with the digital media Avastin, fine. And that stuff and that stuff and the, and any art classes I took and, you know, the required Englishes and things.
00:29:27:16 – 00:29:53:08
Anthony Rapino
I enjoyed that stuff. And I, I, I had a good time on campus, but I don’t know. Yeah, well, I was burnt out by the time it all ended. I was like this. Okay, we’re done with this. And now my life starts. And I promptly became a prep cook at Panera Bread for two year. And then I, you know, stocked shelves for a while and did every crappy job that you could think of for a good like couple of years.
00:29:53:08 – 00:30:13:36
Agent Palmer
I think we all do that. Like, I worked at Kohl’s for seven years after graduating from college before I like, I finally, broke in to the profession of whatever, you know, like the I think we all have to flounder. Yeah. Unless you’re lucky enough to be that one person that’s like, I’m going to be an accountant, and I’m going to school for accounting.
00:30:13:36 – 00:30:14:07
Agent Palmer
And then I got.
00:30:14:11 – 00:30:17:24
Anthony Rapino
So I said those. So those people I’ve.
00:30:17:24 – 00:30:41:39
Agent Palmer
Had, I’ve had them on my show and I talk to them and I try and remove all the envy for being somebody who started school wanting to be a thing and ended school still wanting to be that thing because it’s such a and I don’t know if it’s I don’t know if it’s an art thing where like, look, I’m turning 40 this year, okay?
00:30:41:39 – 00:31:12:56
Agent Palmer
Which means I am in the generation that everyone said we all had ADHD, so it was not a big deal because everybody’s got it right. And I’m an, forgotten generation in between Gen X and millennials. And so I, I remember a time before the internet, and I remember growing up as the internet grew up, but I just think, oh, what, what glory it would have been to know, to like to have that one thing.
00:31:12:56 – 00:31:39:59
Agent Palmer
But like I, I also think that there’s a part of it. I use the generational thing as an ADHD, as a bit of a laugh, but at the same time, I’m an artist and like you, and you’ve mentioned mediums in the last little bit and I’ve if you there’s every instrument in a rock band with the exception of piano, I can play well, not well.
00:31:40:04 – 00:32:24:05
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but I can play them. Okay. Because that was, I was going to be the rock star with you. Right? Bass was my main instrument. And I finally picked up guitar and got that going, and I played some drums, and then it was like, oh, and I can maybe do some writing. And then, you know, I, I grew up playing Magic The Gathering and reading comics and like, you know, I, I was a, I ran cross-country like, I like if you think, if I think about the, the hobbies and activities that I did from 12 to 18, it’s such a vast array of things.
00:32:24:05 – 00:32:49:34
Agent Palmer
And unlike everyone else, I still do most of those vast. I still play guitar and drums and bass. I still run like I used to in cross-country. I still play magic and and like I, I still write and read and like the fact that I didn’t shed a lot of that stuff as I grew up, makes me feel like it’s got to be an artistic thing in, in some capacity.
00:32:49:39 – 00:33:08:23
Anthony Rapino
Yeah. No, I’m again the same. Like, I, had a million hobbies, a lot of them similar to yours. Although I am very jealous of your, time with D&D and magic, I never, for whatever reason, not out of disinterest. Just like probably the people I hung out with, didn’t do that stuff.
00:33:08:25 – 00:33:33:24
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s all about the. So I had a friend who I was hanging out with when the first magic shop opened in Honesdale. Around the time of, like, 94 ish. And so he stopped playing, but I had found the store so I could go to the store. And even though he stopped playing, I found other people that played.
00:33:33:24 – 00:33:59:25
Agent Palmer
Right. And, and it’s that same circle that plays D and D now Pathfinder a little bit more often like a, it’s I’m currently rewatching all of Star Trek because I missed it. Yeah. And I and I legitimately mean I missed it like I was never with that crew. So I’m like, I want to experience this and I’m watching the old stuff.
00:33:59:25 – 00:34:09:57
Agent Palmer
But again, I think it’s about who you are. Some of it’s you. But like a lot of that stuff, when you’re younger, you want to hang out with your friends.
00:34:10:02 – 00:34:18:16
Anthony Rapino
Yeah, yeah. And my friends were well, I don’t know. And, we were, we were a a diverse group of weirdos. So. And I say that in a loving.
00:34:18:16 – 00:34:24:14
Agent Palmer
Way, you know, I, I hung out with that same diverse group of weirdos. Right.
00:34:24:19 – 00:34:45:45
Anthony Rapino
I you know, what’s crazy is I had been planning on finally watching some Star Trek because beyond, like the newer movies, I have never watched a single episode. And again, not out of any, like, you know, judgmental or disinterest. It’s just one of those things that I didn’t experience, for one reason or another. I was watching other things, I guess.
00:34:45:45 – 00:35:04:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I don’t I’m gonna be writing a post about my journey, and I don’t know when I’m going to start it, but obviously I want to have some. I’m I’m a person who works ahead. So like, I want to make sure I have a few posts under my belt. But I at this point, as we record, I’ve finished the original series, which is delightful.
00:35:04:36 – 00:35:27:55
Agent Palmer
I’m watching the animated series, which is also like delightful, and I. Yeah, I could fall in love with Star Trek. Like there’s nothing I and I look, I was a Star Wars fan, but I was never like a Star Wars. Only, right? All right. So like, I, my mind’s open. I’m watching is I enjoy it. I’m. I’m on board for whatever else there is.
00:35:27:55 – 00:35:35:17
Agent Palmer
But like a lot of it’s circumstance, too, like my friends, we didn’t watch a lot of TV.
00:35:35:21 – 00:35:36:03
Anthony Rapino
Okay.
00:35:36:08 – 00:35:43:11
Agent Palmer
Movies. Sure. We were in blockbuster you know, every Friday night. Right. But like which dates me but like.
00:35:43:11 – 00:35:45:21
Anthony Rapino
Have we best kind of Friday night.
00:35:45:26 – 00:35:47:09
Agent Palmer
Right. Like I’m just.
00:35:47:13 – 00:35:55:46
Anthony Rapino
I just wrote an article about the connection between like, fast food pizza and rent and movies and the types of movies you would watch while eating that kind of pizza.
00:35:55:57 – 00:36:26:15
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And and what’s my memory of this? Is that the most fun part of that evening was yelling across the blockbuster like, maybe we should watch this one. You know, like, just like like it’s not even the movie or the pizza or, like, whatever. It’s just trying to argue what for movies, we never watched all four movies, but just arguing which four we were going to pick up.
00:36:26:20 – 00:36:49:19
Anthony Rapino
Yeah, that was such a huge part of the experience. I mean, I’m constantly thinking about that sort of, you know, the anticipation of something when in a world where we are just saturated, it’s instant gratification. I have, you know, streaming libraries of thousands of movies at my fingertips that I could watch back to back if I wanted to.
00:36:49:19 – 00:37:10:07
Anthony Rapino
And music libraries right there. I don’t have to go out and buy a CD. It’s right on, like. And there’s something. It’s great. Hey, don’t get me wrong, it’s great. I’m not all that I. This is all wonderful. But there’s something Los in when we don’t have to wait. When they’re the lack of the anticipation, the the activity of finding that thing.
00:37:10:07 – 00:37:17:48
Anthony Rapino
Kind of like what you were talking about earlier. Even the discovery of, like, wow, I found this on the shelf. Had no idea what it was. And oh, it’s my favorite movie.
00:37:17:48 – 00:37:49:16
Agent Palmer
Now this this is how I come to Tommy and the Order of Cosmic Champions, because I don’t know where this started, but at a certain point I was like, I just want to watch old commercials. From a time that I remember well when I was watching a lot of TV, none of it good. Right. And so I saw an ad for your book in front of, I think it was Dave’s archive.
00:37:49:30 – 00:37:51:44
Anthony Rapino
Yep. Dave.
00:37:51:49 – 00:38:23:05
Agent Palmer
And then I saw another ad for your book in front of a Dave and another like I, I watched a lot of Dave’s archive. Okay. And so that’s how I come to your book, but it’s, it’s I’m craving the nostalgia in all of its glory. And part of it, that nostalgia is in reading your book and going back to the 80s, where, yeah, the best thing in the world was getting on your bike and going to the arcade or hanging out with your friends like it wasn’t.
00:38:23:10 – 00:38:37:37
Agent Palmer
If it was in front of a pixelated screen, it was because you were either watching Saturday morning cartoons or a VHS. That was it, right? And so there’s a part of me that misses that a lot.
00:38:37:42 – 00:39:03:39
Anthony Rapino
And, you know, it’s part of I think it’s a normal cycle of of growing up. I’m right around your age. I’m 43. So I, you know, and you’ll notice also in media just in general when like when we were kids, there was a lot of television shows that were, taking place in the 60s and the 70s, sometimes some in the 50s, because they were geared towards our parents who were reaching that age of 30 ish.
00:39:03:44 – 00:39:32:56
Anthony Rapino
Yeah. When they start thinking about their childhoods and it’s, you know, it’s cyclical in that way and it’s it’s, you know, obviously marketed to in a certain extent. But I try to be as, cynical as possible in my, recollections and as I was writing this and it wasn’t about, you know, some sometimes people will look cynically at, something like this and like, oh, it’s like they’re trying to capitalize on this or that, you know, certain stranger things or this and this the other thing.
00:39:33:01 – 00:40:05:11
Anthony Rapino
And it really had very little to do with that and everything to do with the fact that I love everything about, the nostalgia related to my childhood and Nintendo and video games and, you know, VHS and everything about it is I write about it on a daily basis for that, web page I talked about, I know your viewers, you know, can’t see this, but you can when I’m surrounded by all kinds of, from going to yard sales and flea markets and picking up the old toys and games and things.
00:40:05:16 – 00:40:24:27
Anthony Rapino
I mean, this is, something I have a lot of appreciation for, a lot of love for. So when we, you know, set out to write this, that was what was in our mind was helping other people to kind of like, you know, touch on that a little and think back to their own childhoods.
00:40:24:36 – 00:40:33:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, the closest I get to that part of my life now is leaving my phone somewhere.
00:40:34:00 – 00:40:35:16
Anthony Rapino
Which I have to do sometimes.
00:40:35:16 – 00:40:57:48
Agent Palmer
I mean, I, I try and do it on a more regular basis now, because I the I think we’re all like this. Like, none of us can be trusted. Right. Like, if, if I give you a bag of your favorite salty snack. But I tell you, you really should. Should only eat a handful. You’ll probably finish off the bag.
00:40:57:48 – 00:41:17:24
Agent Palmer
If we’re watching a movie like easy, easy, right? And so you need to put the bag down. And by the same token, I don’t think any of us can really be trusted. You need to put the phone down. Which is why, as I’m going on my Star Trek journey, I’m using pen and paper to make my notes because I’m like, I’m just going to leave the phone.
00:41:17:24 – 00:41:19:58
Agent Palmer
I don’t need it. Yeah, I’m.
00:41:20:02 – 00:41:29:33
Anthony Rapino
Like post-its everywhere because I, I still prefer people think I’m crazy. Like, why don’t you use your phone while you write the my reminders are on post-it notes I have.
00:41:29:38 – 00:41:51:40
Agent Palmer
My notes for. Yeah. No, I, I prefer paper and I, I’ve made the attempt because you and I both grew up in the very, very like, let’s go green, let’s recycle. I’ve tried the digital notebooks. They do not work for me. I need I need to see the ink soak into the page. I just can’t, there’s no way around it for me.
00:41:51:52 – 00:42:11:19
Anthony Rapino
Yeah it doesn’t. I put the, a couple of summers ago, I put, like, the voice notes thing on the phone, and I would go for walks and I would try to like ideas for stores. I would talk them into the phone. I don’t go back to those. I don’t listen to them, I don’t. It was such a like, I still have it on there thinking like, oh, I don’t want to lose that stuff now.
00:42:11:34 – 00:42:22:14
Anthony Rapino
But I, you know, I’d much rather the little tiny notebooks and the pads and, you know, I always have those with me, those I’ll pull out and I’ll look through them. It’s easier to flip through that to something tactile.
00:42:22:19 – 00:42:38:20
Agent Palmer
It’s and it’s why I prefer look, I’ve read advanced copies of books digitally because they’re advanced copies and they haven’t been printed yet, but I’d much rather prefer a physical give me a book game. Like give me a book. I can turn the page.
00:42:38:25 – 00:42:50:26
Anthony Rapino
That’s I feel constrained in a way when I’m. And I do have, you know, I have my my old, old like this was one of the first of the Kindle.
00:42:50:26 – 00:42:53:53
Agent Palmer
I have the generation right after that, actually.
00:42:53:58 – 00:43:11:52
Anthony Rapino
Yeah. Whatever one it was. I mean, it’s from five years ago and it’s still works. I still I’ll use it if I have to, but I mean, you could also see that monstrosity, which is both movies and books, but, and what I’m pointing to for the listeners is a giant, bookshelf that it’s a.
00:43:11:52 – 00:43:13:02
Agent Palmer
It’s a wall of a.
00:43:13:16 – 00:43:38:04
Anthony Rapino
Wall. Yeah, it’s an entire wall, filled with books and and, ephemera and, some movies and things, but there is something about, like, what I found is when I read, at least I don’t know if you’re the same way, but if I’m reading, I often go back to, like, previous pages, previous chapters. I’ll read something of like, oh, like something.
00:43:38:09 – 00:43:47:15
Anthony Rapino
They’re doing something here, and I want to see, like what they were setting up, and I’ll flip back. Sometimes I’ll flip forward and see, like when the next chapters come in. So I, I have to read it.
00:43:47:15 – 00:44:07:06
Agent Palmer
Yeah. The, the going back depends on what I’m reading. But the going forward, like I’m all and I depending on the book like I’m a little more or less this, but sometimes I’m like, I want to finish this chapter before I put the book down. How many more? Okay. Nope. Okay. I’m like, oh no, I’m too tired to read another 20 more pages.
00:44:07:06 – 00:44:21:47
Agent Palmer
I’m going to find the nearest clean break. Yeah, but I’m forever looking for the next stopping point. Not because I want to put the book down, but like, because I know I’m not a professional reader and I have other things to do.
00:44:21:49 – 00:44:40:38
Anthony Rapino
Yeah, there’s other things. And there’s also there’s like, just let this weird subconscious mental thing going on, like when you are nearing the end of a chapter and you know, when that chapter is coming or when you’re getting near the end of the book and you realize the end of the book is coming and you feel it and it’s in your hand, and you could see it in a much clearer way than with a Kindle.
00:44:40:43 – 00:44:56:31
Anthony Rapino
I like there. What I’m getting at is there are times when I’m reading something on a Kindle, and I have no idea that the end of a chapter of the end of the book is coming up, and it shows up, and it’s weird. It feels like I should have realized from the pacing of the writing, but it just comes as a surprise.
00:44:56:31 – 00:44:56:58
Anthony Rapino
Almost.
00:44:56:58 – 00:45:09:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah, the journey of the book mark through the book is something that will never be duplicated digitally. I know it gives you a percentage sometimes or whatnot, but it’s it’s just not the same.
00:45:09:58 – 00:45:25:05
Anthony Rapino
No, it’s not. Either you need to take the smell of the book, the feel of it, and if you don’t, if you don’t buy physical books, you don’t get to go to those really cool out of the way use the bookstores.
00:45:25:10 – 00:45:41:22
Agent Palmer
I mean, use bookstores. So I’ve, I’ve people are probably sick of me saying this, but I’m going to keep saying it every time it comes up. I’m reading every book in my house. Because it’s going to keep me from buying more books.
00:45:41:26 – 00:45:41:44
Anthony Rapino
Okay.
00:45:41:46 – 00:45:48:00
Agent Palmer
Because I have a lot of. But I would say I for as much as I’ve read at least half of the books in my house, I haven’t read.
00:45:48:04 – 00:45:54:20
Anthony Rapino
Okay, you’re you’re, a stockpile of words, not mine.
00:45:54:25 – 00:46:23:55
Agent Palmer
I’m a collector of hand-me-downs. Like when my grandparents passed on, there were some books that I thought might be interesting, and I held on to them. And when my parents decided to downsize, and I. I pillaged a bunch of the stuff they were going to give away. Right. And so I’ve collected this stuff that I have moved from apartment to house and it’s just like, well, well, I don’t plan on moving anytime soon.
00:46:24:00 – 00:46:46:02
Agent Palmer
I only have a finite amount of bookshelves. Yeah. So I want to read these and if I like it I’m keeping it. And if I like it and there’s no reason to go back to it, I can then pass it on to somebody else or what have you. Some of it’s a great part. The other part of it is there are books in my house, like not all the books in my house because of the hand-me-down nature.
00:46:46:05 – 00:46:54:25
Agent Palmer
Some of them, I didn’t choose them right. And so it’s like, well, why did my grandmother have this book? I’m about to find out.
00:46:54:25 – 00:47:18:42
Anthony Rapino
Like, I mean, that’s that’s again, we’re back to that idea of discovery, right? The not knowing what you have until you read it and experience it. And there’s something to be said about that. I and I will, you know, I will say that I am the same. I don’t like to buy any more books when I have a large pile of unread purchased books or hand-me-downs or what have you.
00:47:18:47 – 00:47:37:24
Anthony Rapino
And of course, I think all of us, any voracious reader, is going to have a stack or two that has not yet been read in their immediate proximity. Yeah, but I, I do try my best to like if I, I bought, a stack of five books during a sale from a flame tree, press during this past summer.
00:47:37:29 – 00:47:43:50
Anthony Rapino
And I just, you know, I feel like I need to read those before I really, like, throw any more money at anything.
00:47:43:50 – 00:48:13:53
Agent Palmer
I the one concession I’ve made is I try and pick up 1 or 2 modern books now. Not modern in the sense of anything other than they got published this year or last year. Right. And I think that part of it is a way for me to keep an eye on what’s still happening. Yeah, like I’m reading the authors whose bibliographies I’m reading through Len Deighton.
00:48:13:57 – 00:48:38:48
Agent Palmer
I’ve only got two books left in his entire catalog, and I think the last one came out in 96 or 7. Right. Clive Barker hasn’t put out a, like, a novel novel in quite a while, and a lot of it is 80s and 90s. Douglas Copeland is a 90s and aughts author, so reading through his stuff is more contemporary.
00:48:38:48 – 00:49:01:46
Agent Palmer
And the other, the fourth guy for now, is Chuck Klosterman, who I get a new paperback as we’re recording this next week, which is exciting. But being back in some of those places, I have no idea what people are writing now, and I think that it’s important to make sure you still see something from like this year or last year.
00:49:01:51 – 00:49:20:29
Anthony Rapino
Absolutely. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And that’s something that I’ve had to prod myself about as well, because I am I do tend to go back to my favorite authors, in a lot of the older stuff and look at things from the 80s, 90s, early 2000, which is why I bought those five books from flame three.
00:49:20:29 – 00:49:45:37
Anthony Rapino
They all current, you know, fairly current books from current authors in my, you know, in my genre. That I and I try to, I try to do a couple things. I try to buy newer books. I try to buy from indie authors as much as possible. I don’t only read horror, but I do try to, you know, read within the genre quite a bit so that I am aware of what’s going on, as you said.
00:49:45:42 – 00:50:04:45
Anthony Rapino
But yeah, you know, sometimes that that is you have to remind yourself, or at least I do, because I, we both seem to have that same kind of like I know some people who can read somehow hundreds of books a year. You know, I look at Goodreads sometimes people are on there with 300. They all read 300 books this year.
00:50:04:56 – 00:50:15:12
Anthony Rapino
I don’t know how you know. I know everyone reads at different speeds and everything, but wow. I mean, if I get past 20, 25 books a year, that’s a lot. I mean.
00:50:15:17 – 00:50:41:03
Agent Palmer
I have to be in the 30 ish range. But then again, I’m I’m unemployed, consulting for myself, not because I want to, but because at the moment that’s where I’m at in my career. And it’s been that way for a while, and I still can’t read like 100 books. Yeah. Well, I’ve got friends who are lucky to get three books, read, because their lives are chaos and crazy.
00:50:41:03 – 00:51:08:04
Agent Palmer
So my 20 books feels like a hundred, and they’re like, what are you reading now? I’m like, oh, I’m on a, you know, what are you reading? Oh, no. That was a few books ago. Like, no. And I get that. But I also think, and this might be the thing that, like, tweaks the scale a bit is because I’m willing to read an author whether I like what the book is going to be or not, whether it’s nonfiction or fiction or like, I’m just picking up stuff that got handed me down from generations ago.
00:51:08:09 – 00:51:28:23
Agent Palmer
Not all of these books are like my kind of candy. So some of these books are not like, I can read a chapter in 20 minutes, like, some of these are the same length of time, and it’s like I’m reading a chapter every hour because, like, it’s just a little denser or it’s older or it’s it’s something different.
00:51:28:28 – 00:51:51:27
Anthony Rapino
Let me ask you a question, because I recently was read it were actually this was a video that I watched about reading speed and how to read more, that kind of thing. So I’m not going to tell you what they said, but I’m curious, do you d-n-r books? So do will you take like if you get to a point in a book and you’re not enjoying it, you put it down and say, okay, I’m moving on to the next one, or do you feel like you have to finish it?
00:51:51:27 – 00:51:51:45
Anthony Rapino
Nope.
00:51:51:45 – 00:52:12:33
Agent Palmer
I’ll finish it. I’ll finish it. In fact, I there’s a book and I always bring it up. I’ve, I’ve got one negative book review on my blog ten plus years on one negative book review. And I hate read the back half of that book. It was nonfiction, and I just I knew the author was one of those, like, anyway.
00:52:12:37 – 00:52:34:14
Agent Palmer
But I know I have to finish it. And and I also think that there’s a it’s not a completionist thing because like, there’s video games I’ve started that I’ve never finished. But for me, I think it’s about, I treat reading like I treat running like it’s an acumen. You have to do it, but you need the exercise too.
00:52:34:18 – 00:52:53:57
Agent Palmer
So like right now I’m reading Cosmos by Carl Sagan. It’s literally like going back to school. It’s it’s going to take me three times as long as it took to read your book to read this book which is about the same amount of pages. Right.
00:52:54:02 – 00:52:57:16
Anthony Rapino
Oh this is this last one I wrote was like 400 something pages too.
00:52:57:19 – 00:53:18:04
Agent Palmer
But it’s just, it’s just so dense in a different way. And you’re thinking and because it’s fiction versus nonfiction, right. Like and so for me, I think it stretches the mind. It also means that the next fiction I pick up, I will probably read in like half a day, but like, it’s just it’s exercise and it’s getting through it.
00:53:18:04 – 00:53:31:52
Agent Palmer
And it’s a thing that like, I think I feel more accomplished. I’ll feel more accomplished when I finish this book than when I finished yours. Sure. Just because it was such a tougher read.
00:53:31:56 – 00:53:51:34
Anthony Rapino
Yeah. I mean, it’s the difference between sitting down to, you know, Thanksgiving meal and eating cotton candy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I have plenty of cotton candy books, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I, you know, I will if I need that decompression after a hard read, I will absolutely. Read a Dresden Files book, by Jim Butcher.
00:53:51:40 – 00:54:11:36
Anthony Rapino
And they’re fun. There’s nothing wrong with that. But they’re cotton candy, you know, it’s like it seems like a big mouthful of something, but then it just dissolves into a sugary substance in your mouth very quickly. And it’s it’s delicious. But it’s not not substance, you know, it’s, it’s not really going to, be a lot of nutrients in it necessarily.
00:54:11:41 – 00:54:27:09
Anthony Rapino
I, I’m the same. I don’t like to just stop reading a book, even if I’m not enjoying it. I try to finish. The reason I was asking is because the video suggests it, that you should like, if you get to a certain point and not you’re not enjoying it, stop reading it. Move on to the next one.
00:54:27:23 – 00:54:38:23
Anthony Rapino
And I, you know, I see the I guess I see the wisdom in that. But I also don’t usually feel comfortable doing it myself.
00:54:38:36 – 00:55:00:25
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I, I don’t know, as a, as a teacher, you know, I think that, is that a, a precedent you want to set. Like, is that something you like, like a literally is that something you can bring to the classroom where you’re like, this is required reading there? Like, I’m not feeling it, you know, like, exactly.
00:55:00:35 – 00:55:18:58
Anthony Rapino
Maybe that’s why I, I never really thought of it that way, but that that is a good point of that. If I, you know, if I’m doing it in my own life, I have to either be okay with my students doing it. Or at the very least understand. I do understand that not everyone likes everything, but yeah, I guess in the classroom I’d say.
00:55:18:58 – 00:55:32:28
Anthony Rapino
But you have to read it. So that’s what I tell myself. Yeah, but you have to.
00:55:32:32 – 00:55:57:20
Agent Palmer
If I learned anything from this conversation and the many others I’ve had, it’s that, well, anyone can be an artist. Some of us just must be artists. Tony and I must be artists. And I say that not just because we had similar backgrounds and experiences growing up. I say that because it may be that the need to create and express is part of what made those experiences similar in the first place.
00:55:57:25 – 00:56:19:50
Agent Palmer
There is no real way to know, but I can say that this conversation with Tony is an example of two creative artists discussing their processes and hobbies, which oftentimes relate to the things we want to create, or as the case may be, need to create. We both spoke of the unfinished works and projects we have in this episode, and it’s something that comes up with artists all the time.
00:56:20:04 – 00:56:41:56
Agent Palmer
The reason they start in the first place is because there is a spark and we want to save it. We want to keep the ember going. Sometimes it burns and sometimes it doesn’t. But if you don’t get started, if you don’t nurture the spark, it’ll never be a flame. Put another way, anything could be your thing. So why not try all of it?
00:56:42:01 – 00:57:03:48
Agent Palmer
I’m not saying chase every idea, but I am saying that you should consider more of them than you do. This is why we all appear to have some sort of attention disorder. But I promise you, we all have a method to our madness. It’s unique and it’s personal, but it’s there. Tony is experimenting and working in many mediums.
00:57:03:59 – 00:57:23:17
Agent Palmer
I myself am working with text and audio and through some collaboration video. And like Tony and all of his mediums, all of mine come back together as well. We learn from the things that we do. So I’m not going to end this by saying, go find your thing and go do your thing though. I just did and I’m not sorry about it.
00:57:23:31 – 00:57:45:02
Agent Palmer
However, I am going to say that you should reach out to your favorite artists, creators, and those people who inspire you in some way and let them know that their art has helped, even if it’s just in some small way. You literally have no idea how much that will mean to them. But thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 92.
00:57:45:02 – 00:58:03:28
Agent Palmer
And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact myself and my guest, Tony Rapino in the show notes. There you can find more information about Tony, his books, and his many other projects at Anthony J.
00:58:03:28 – 00:58:30:28
Agent Palmer
Rapino.com. That’s ant h o and y, j r, API and Ofcom. You can also see more of his nostalgic thoughts on 80s exchange.com. Again, that’s 80XCHA ng.com. Tony’s novel Tommy in the Order of Cosmic Champions is available. Ask for it at your local bookstore or order it online. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com.
00:58:30:30 – 00:58:53:35
Agent Palmer
And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:58:53:40 – 00:59:11:31
Agent Palmer
See?
00:59:11:35 – 00:59:20:07
Agent Palmer
Me.
00:59:20:11 – 00:59:23:07
Agent Palmer
All right. Tony, do you have one final question for me?
00:59:23:11 – 00:59:50:16
Anthony Rapino
I do, as I mentioned to you earlier, while I was sculpting, I was listening to a number of your episodes, and I, you know, I was really digging, and I was just one after the other putting them on. And I realized one of the reasons why that was is because of your passion. And I heard it from episode to episode, and I heard it tonight when we were talking to each other.
00:59:50:20 – 01:00:14:17
Anthony Rapino
You you are passionate about not only the topics that we’re discussing, but about everything having to do with AI. And you can tell just when you talk about the podcast, when you talk about your blog. These are passion projects for you. So my question is, if you ever lose that passion for the blog or for the podcast, would you just stop doing it?
01:00:14:32 – 01:00:34:21
Anthony Rapino
Or would you feel like you had some kind of, imperative that you have to keep doing it either for your listeners or readers, that you feel like it’s something that you have, even though you don’t like to do it anymore? Or do you? Would you be true to yourself in that sense and say, well, I want to move on to a new project?
01:00:34:26 – 01:00:59:53
Agent Palmer
I’m going to I’m going to steal some lines from Christopher Knight, Val Kilmer, his character and real genius. No, I have no moral imperative to keep going. No, sir, it is the. It is all about the passion for me. I think that the blog, I I’ll say this for both of them before I answer the rest of the question.
01:00:59:58 – 01:01:18:53
Agent Palmer
Part of the reason that the passion remains high is because I have learned patience a little bit in the publishing aspect. I publish my blog once a week. I publish this podcast every two.
01:01:18:58 – 01:01:19:43
Anthony Rapino
Yeah.
01:01:19:48 – 01:01:40:38
Agent Palmer
Six times a month. I hit publish on something, which means that I’m not burnt out, right? I have the ability to work ahead. I have the ability built in because I can work ahead. You know, I could sit down in a weekend and write three posts because I felt inspired, and then I can go through a non inspiration period and still not miss a beat.
01:01:40:43 – 01:02:08:47
Agent Palmer
And I think that those periods of built in breakdowns, those periods of mental block or I’m just not feeling it today, allow me to keep the energy level high when I do create the thing. At the very least, that’s the way the blog is. For the podcast. On a at least weekly basis, if not daily basis.
01:02:08:52 – 01:02:33:37
Agent Palmer
I find the inspiration to do this show because I’m a telephone person. Okay, I don’t need to video call you for anything. I have no problem being phone pals with you, right? I’m not going to text you. I’ll text you if you, you know. Are you in a meeting? No. When you say no, no, that your phone’s going to ring, right?
01:02:33:37 – 01:02:59:45
Agent Palmer
I’m a talker. And I think that I. I hate the idea that the conversation you and I just had is something that later generations younger than us won’t experience. Because this is a conversation that you and I, despite the three years in difference in our age, you and I could have had this at ten, 20, 30 and now 40, right?
01:02:59:47 – 01:03:15:46
Agent Palmer
At any point. And it’s because of when we grew up. It’s because of, you know, yeah, we’re similar, but we still talk to each other. We still talk to people. I’d be willing to bet you have conversations like this with other people.
01:03:15:51 – 01:03:23:45
Anthony Rapino
I mean, I you know, as a professor, you know, I’m constantly talking to and I one of the best ways to teach, in my opinion, are conversations.
01:03:23:58 – 01:03:52:33
Agent Palmer
And that’s I, I have experienced that as a student, you know, like, yeah, you may walk into a class and it sounds like people are just yelling, but sometimes they’re debating and that’s how they’re going to learn more effectively, at least, you know, it’s one of the ways I did. And so for the podcast, specifically, when I see something boiled down into a 32nd or a one minute clip, there’s a lot more that happened.
01:03:52:35 – 01:04:16:30
Agent Palmer
Like, yeah, there’s so much more that went into that. And you’re taking bits out of context and I, I want the long form conversation to come back because it allows for context. It allows for nuance and allows for meandering, by the way, like, oh yeah, yeah, we didn’t answer every question we asked of each other, but we had a fun journey as the conversation went on.
01:04:16:30 – 01:04:20:10
Anthony Rapino
Right? And it was a trip. It was just it was a it was a journey.
01:04:20:10 – 01:04:40:45
Agent Palmer
Our conversation and I and I, I don’t want that to go away. I’m basically sticking my flag in the ground and going like, I don’t want this to die. And if my podcast is the last bastion of that, then it is. But, there’s a flipside to that, which is I don’t let my conversations go for four hours.
01:04:40:50 – 01:05:06:23
Agent Palmer
I think there’s also a limit to their usefulness. And so it’s a balance. But when I see things get broken down into bite sized content, which is basically all we’re surrounded by, it gives me more impetus to be like, find somebody interesting that I can have a conversation with and talk to them for an hour and see what happens.
01:05:06:28 – 01:05:33:20
Anthony Rapino
Yeah, you know, the internet and technology and specifically social media has been, Pushing us to talk less and to share less. It’s becoming shorter and shorter every, every social media, know app that comes out. It you can only write this much. You could only post a picture you can own. Your video could only be this long.
01:05:33:24 – 01:05:56:02
Anthony Rapino
And you know it. Like you said, you lose context, you lose nuance, you lose the conversation. And, I, I don’t know if you’ve ever read, Nicholas Carr, he, he wrote a book called The Shallows, and there’s an article he wrote called Is Google Making Us Stupid? And, it has some really cool and interesting ideas in it.
01:05:56:04 – 01:06:18:37
Anthony Rapino
He does not argue that Google is making us stupid, by the way. It’s just kind of a hook title. Yeah, but, he he gets into that idea of like, us becoming pancake people, I believe was one of the quotes from the, from the article that we are just you know, not diving deep anymore. We’re kind of happy with just the, you know, the surface knowledge.
01:06:18:42 – 01:06:53:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I, I think it’s I urge anyone out there who’s interested, it doesn’t have to be Star Trek, but it can be. And it doesn’t have to be something like one of my favorite movies, The Man Who Would Be King. But watch television and film from the 60s and the 70s because I think my ability to just jump into the original series of Star Trek was because I have been watching older movies, and so I’m not like the pacing of a television sitcom.
01:06:53:40 – 01:07:18:38
Agent Palmer
Even a 50 minute one from 1969 is not awkward to me, right? Because I’ve watched films from that era. And so I think that’s the other piece is, you know, you’re a teacher, and I’m sure you talk to your students about being well-rounded because that’s that that’s what I heard for my entire, you know, educational, career.
01:07:18:52 – 01:07:46:06
Agent Palmer
And so I think that the other piece of that is not just the subject matter, but also the time period. Sure. And so reading a book, even if it’s similar to one you just read, but that was published in 1960, the pacing is different, and just that alone changes your attention span, I think is seeing that, experiencing that pacing, whether it’s TV, movies or books.
01:07:46:11 – 01:07:55:07
Agent Palmer
And so that’s the other piece to all of this. But yeah, I just, I just don’t want to see conversation go away.
01:07:55:12 – 01:08:24:17
Anthony Rapino
Yeah. I mean, that’s why and that is why when something like this is so important. And also, I had an inkling that even though I was asking a question about if you’d ever stop, I kind of felt like, at least in this, medium, when you get to meet someone new every couple of weeks, and when you get to have all these different conversations, it it could it’s certainly could happen that you would lose interest, but it’s probably not going to happen for a while.
01:08:24:21 – 01:08:46:00
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, I mean, I’m I’m approaching 100 and I, I, you know I, I’ve thought about like stopping like taking a break but like I do two of these a month, you know, like, I like what’s the, what do I need. Like, oh like I need a full like because I basically like, if I, if I plan it out properly, I’m about planning.
01:08:46:05 – 01:09:12:25
Agent Palmer
I can take two weeks off without worrying about and missing a beat what I need three weeks like I don’t know in what scenario that’s important. Like that extra week is like make or break, but I, you know, I, I refuse to put out something I’m not passionate about. So as long as that passion remains, it’ll it’ll be indefinite and it’ll just move to something else.
01:09:12:29 – 01:09:28:23
Agent Palmer
Like, I mean, as we talked about, like, I don’t I don’t that passion will just end up somewhere else. I don’t think it’ll go away. I think that’s a whole different ballgame. But like, I just feel like, all right, so maybe you end up getting more writing from me. Who knows?
01:09:28:28 – 01:09:41:22
Anthony Rapino
Yeah. I mean, the creative energy, that’s one of those things I wonder about sometimes is like the is is there a reserve of this stuff that I’m going to run out of at some point? But I,
01:09:41:26 – 01:09:42:26
Agent Palmer
I hope not.
01:09:42:31 – 01:10:00:34
Anthony Rapino
I hope not too, but I, like I used to do, a lot of YouTube videos and I kind of lost interest in it because it wasn’t fulfilling. Really. Okay. And, you know, I funneled all that energy into something else. That was when I actually, I well, it was before that, but I was like, I’ve never sculpted before.
01:10:00:34 – 01:10:07:22
Anthony Rapino
Let’s check this out. Why not grab a hunk of clay and just start messing around? Like, you know what, I like this, you know, keep doing it.
01:10:07:36 – 01:10:34:22
Agent Palmer
I, I, I talk people out of podcasting and blogging all the time, which is weird for somebody who likes it so much, but I, I, I’m a big proponent of if you’re doing it for yourself, you will be successful. But look if, if one person listens to this episode that’s fine. I think you and I had a good time and that’s good enough for me.
01:10:34:22 – 01:10:54:56
Agent Palmer
Like I’m going to edit this and put it together and it’s going to come out and I’m going to be proud of it. And if if one person hits it fine. If 100,000, sure, fine. But I’m not going to be disappointed. I think I’m creating to create. And I think that you need that genuine article, so to speak.
01:10:55:01 – 01:11:04:11
Agent Palmer
So that way you’re not being like, I’m creating this show. 100,000 people will see it. And if 900,000, you’re like, you know what I mean? Like, I.
01:11:04:11 – 01:11:13:51
Anthony Rapino
Every, every creator has it within holds within them, at differing ratios, partly, personal
01:11:13:56 – 01:11:14:56
Agent Palmer
Satisfaction.
01:11:15:00 – 01:11:44:14
Anthony Rapino
Satisfaction, personal satisfaction, personal fulfillment and, public consumption. I think most creatives to a degree. And again, the ratio is going to be different for everyone. But to a degree, most creatives want someone to see what they create. Even if it’s their husband, wife, children. And I usually think that that personal fulfillment part of it is stronger in most of us.
01:11:44:19 – 01:11:48:13
Anthony Rapino
I mean, not all of us are not. I don’t like extremes. So I’m never going to say every.
01:11:48:15 – 01:12:02:41
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, well, that’s that’s why I end up talking people out of it because I’m like, you know. Oh, great. You’ve got an idea for a podcast. Tell me about episode ten. And they’re like, oh no, I only have two in mind. Like, all right, well, clearly you need to work on some stuff.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).