Episode 135 features the return of Tony Rapino, a man of many hats and talents, who is here because since his last appearance on episode 92 we’ve become friends!
Which means I can ask him leading questions about his writing process and blocks, his baking habits, how he stays motivated, is he a recluse, and just how strong is his need to create and much much more.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
AnthonyJRapino.com
OrderofComsicChampions.com
Youtube.com/retrodaze
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:05 – 00:00:32:55
Agent Palmer
Previously on agent Palmer dot com the Tragically Hip needs no dress rehearsal to gain new fans. Learning more about Steve Prefontaine is its own runner’s high, and Kristen continues to share the editing process online. And that’s just one of the reasons you should follow her. This is The Palmer Files episode 135, featuring the return of Tony Rapino, a man of many hats and talents who’s here because since his last appearance on episode 92, we’ve become friends, which means I can ask him leading questions about his writing process and blocks his baking habits, how he stays motivated.
00:00:33:01 – 00:01:08:40
Agent Palmer
Is he a recluse? And just how strong is his need to create? Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:08:45 – 00:01:27:50
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 135th episode is The return of Tony Rapino. He first appeared on this show as the author of a book I enjoyed, but he’s returning to the show as a friend. You’ll hear a little about how odd that is, and some things that make it even odder.
00:01:27:54 – 00:01:48:25
Agent Palmer
Plus, we talk about Tony’s writing process, where he finds his creative bandwidth all of the other hats writers have to wear. Plus, we divert into our baking origins, talk about what we enjoy about being in the kitchen, as well as imposter syndrome, being hard on ourselves as creatives and well, all of that and a whole lot more is coming your way shortly.
00:01:48:34 – 00:02:12:58
Agent Palmer
But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all related ways to contact my friend Tony and myself in the show notes. There you can also find Tony’s website Anthony J rapino.com. That’s a n t h o y j r a piano.com. Plus you can watch Tony’s Retro Days scripts come to life on youtube.com/retro days.
00:02:12:58 – 00:02:31:03
Agent Palmer
That’s retro desi. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files@gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:31:08 – 00:02:47:39
Agent Palmer
Tony, you first appeared on this show as an author whose book I had read, and now you’re returning to the show as a friend whom I text and call on a fairly regular basis.
00:02:47:44 – 00:02:48:57
Tony Rapino
Yeah, very true.
00:02:49:01 – 00:02:53:24
Agent Palmer
Is this, the weirdest thing you’ve gotten out of a podcast?
00:02:53:29 – 00:02:56:08
Tony Rapino
You know what I or unexpected?
00:02:56:11 – 00:02:58:14
Agent Palmer
Not weird, but most unexpected.
00:02:58:19 – 00:03:09:40
Tony Rapino
Unexpected? Yes. I was going to say I don’t know how to define if this is the correct definition of weird in this case, but given our proximity, I think the weird thing is probably that we haven’t actually hung out yet.
00:03:09:46 – 00:03:28:06
Agent Palmer
That’s true, that’s true. I have, thought about it, but like, never with, like, we’re close enough that it could happen, but not close enough that it can happen within five minute. Like we need planning needs to happen. And every time I’m like, I should call up Tony, it’s like, yeah, but we’re starting whatever we’re doing in ten minutes.
00:03:28:06 – 00:03:40:22
Tony Rapino
That’s the planning needs to happen. And I’m, I’m a notorious sort of like, you know, I don’t go out much and I don’t want to call myself a recluse necessarily, like go places, you know, for you.
00:03:40:27 – 00:03:52:05
Agent Palmer
But every time I talk to you, you’re on your way somewhere. So you don’t go out much but yeah you’re, you, you’re not like a homebody. It’s not like you’re always home.
00:03:52:10 – 00:04:10:23
Tony Rapino
No, no I don’t think I could, I don’t think I could survive like if I literally was just always in the house. But I will say though that this year has been atypical as far as like, big events go. Okay. Like, I know you’re probably referring to, like, the conventions I’ve been to and things like that.
00:04:10:25 – 00:04:50:29
Agent Palmer
No, I’m talking about, you know, the, the, the flea markets and, the, the, the, the yard sale stuff. I mean, the stuff I mean, on your own YouTube channel, you do some videos of, of your finds, but I’m thinking that too, whereas that’s not like shopping at Walmart or Target. Like you have to interact with people at, at a shopping center in an actual shop, like there’s the transaction, but you are talking to these people and potentially haggling like there’s a a massive social element to that part of it.
00:04:50:29 – 00:04:55:51
Agent Palmer
It’s not. I went to the store, I bought something, I didn’t say two words to the clerk.
00:04:56:00 – 00:05:13:18
Tony Rapino
Right, right. No that’s true. There is a lot of, and and I mean, given that I, I mean, I teach that’s one of those things that is like, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to people when I tell them that I don’t love big social events and I don’t love going places and then like, but you teach, don’t you?
00:05:13:18 – 00:05:19:54
Tony Rapino
Don’t you stand in front of 24 students and, like, give speeches like, this is okay.
00:05:19:59 – 00:05:24:58
Agent Palmer
We’ll we’ll start here is 24 students. A large gathering.
00:05:25:03 – 00:05:30:08
Tony Rapino
Does that count as a large gathering vendor? And there’s a lot of people, I think.
00:05:30:17 – 00:05:46:51
Agent Palmer
I, I think I could be fine in a group of 25. I feel like once we start, shifting the numbers towards 30 is when I would be like, all right, now I just want to sit in the corner with the three people I like best.
00:05:46:55 – 00:05:53:13
Tony Rapino
Oh, sure. I mean, are we talking? So we’re talking in the sense of, like, a social gathering, not like, like you’re performing.
00:05:53:26 – 00:05:59:20
Agent Palmer
Not like you’re performing. Although, I don’t know. I don’t know that I’d want to perform.
00:05:59:25 – 00:06:21:01
Tony Rapino
No, no, I was going to say, because one of the weird things, the another weird thing is that, like, I’m fine in a classroom with those students, but even if you take those same students and put them in an auditorium and put me on a stage and tell me I have to do a reading of my own work, that’s going to shift things just enough that I’m probably going to be super nervous and probably not want to do it at all.
00:06:21:05 – 00:06:27:22
Agent Palmer
Is it okay? But is your classroom free flowing like there’s a back and forth kind of like this?
00:06:27:27 – 00:06:28:22
Tony Rapino
Yes. Yeah.
00:06:28:22 – 00:06:40:38
Agent Palmer
So as opposed to the auditorium where it’s like, okay, all eyes on Tony. Let’s get this spotlight, dim the lights, everything. All all, all eyes on Tony and go.
00:06:40:43 – 00:06:56:58
Tony Rapino
Right. And that that notion of having, like, I just assume if you’re in an auditorium like that, you’re probably giving a speech, and that’s not okay for me. I don’t I don’t want to give like a pre-written speech because then I worry about, am I going to flub something? Would you be.
00:06:57:00 – 00:06:57:37
Agent Palmer
Better off.
00:06:57:37 – 00:07:16:09
Tony Rapino
Off the cuff? I’m much better off. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I, in fact, I like the the two conventions I did earlier this year. I signed up for readings at both of them, which is new for me. I mean, I’ve been trying to push myself this year. That’s what I was kind of getting at earlier. Is that, like, if you’re referring to the convention that I’ve been going to.
00:07:16:09 – 00:07:41:05
Tony Rapino
Yeah, I’ve been pushing myself more than any other year. Last year I only did one convention and like one small Barnes and Noble signing this year I did, two larger conventions and maybe while I’m going to another convention, but I’m not, like, working it. But, you know, those those readings had pretty small audiences and the preparation for that in my head.
00:07:41:12 – 00:07:54:45
Tony Rapino
Yeah, well, I was freaking the hell out. I mean, I kind of knew, like, you know, if I’m if I get a dozen people, I’m lucky, but I’m thinking, like, now, okay, I have to practice a story and I have to read it a bunch of times and get good with it and really, like, prepare, but okay.
00:07:54:50 – 00:07:59:54
Agent Palmer
Isn’t it? Wouldn’t it be you’re not in your head at all when you have to, get up in front of the class?
00:07:59:54 – 00:08:02:24
Tony Rapino
I’ve been doing this for.
00:08:02:29 – 00:08:27:00
Agent Palmer
Like, so is it is it genuinely a comfort level thing, like, okay, so you’ve been teaching for long enough that you’re not in your head. So if I were to be like, all right, Tony, like, next year, five conventions and like seven or maybe even like monthly readings, let’s get some local ones in. And you just your, your reps are more often.
00:08:27:05 – 00:08:37:33
Agent Palmer
Do you think you could make it as easy as teaching or, or make it feel like teaching, where it’s like you’re not in your head, you just have to get the reps in?
00:08:37:38 – 00:08:42:53
Tony Rapino
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. What is that called? That’s, desensitizing, something or other.
00:08:43:05 – 00:09:04:06
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I always thought it was like getting in your 10,000 hours or whatever like that. It’s it’s the it’s kind of the same thing where it’s like, the more you do it, the less of a problem it is. And that my, my own personal like social anxieties are the same thing, right? Like, if I, if I’m in a new place, I’m, I’m a bag of cats.
00:09:04:15 – 00:09:25:45
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But if I’m there the second time or the third time, if there’s people I’ve been with before as opposed to strangers. Yeah. Like it. It comes down from chaos to, I don’t want to say normal, but, like, you know. No, I can handle it.
00:09:25:50 – 00:09:41:16
Tony Rapino
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that that’s that, you know, it’s one of those things. It’s I’m trying to think of, like, there’s a name for it in therapy where you just like you do the thing and you do it more often, and the more you do it, you, the more comfortable you get. And I’m like, that’s one of my things is like, I don’t like change.
00:09:41:30 – 00:09:57:52
Tony Rapino
So if it’s a brand new place, I’ve never been there. I’ve never driven there. I’ve never, you know, I’ve never met the people. Then sure, I’m going to be a lot more nervous and anxious than I would if it were like my second time at this convention. And I’m meeting a bunch of people I know. And, you know, I’ve been doing readings.
00:09:57:57 – 00:10:14:18
Tony Rapino
So, yeah, I, you know, the that’s kind of why I was trying to do more of this stuff is because I, I’d like to, you know, I do take my writing seriously and I’ve become more and more aware of the fact that to be a serious writer, you have to go to these conventions. You have to do the readings, you know.
00:10:14:23 – 00:10:31:01
Agent Palmer
Is it? I guess it feels like one of those things no one ever expects. Like, I want to be a writer. Great. How are your speaking skills? It’s like, no, no, no no no no no no no. You misunderstood. I’m going to be a writer. And it’s like, no, no, you you have to speak to people. You have to meet people.
00:10:31:01 – 00:10:35:41
Agent Palmer
You have to sell yourself. It’s like, no, no, no, I’m not the marketing person. I’m just the writer. It’s like, oh, you’re.
00:10:35:41 – 00:10:36:49
Tony Rapino
The marketing person now, buddy.
00:10:36:51 – 00:11:08:41
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, right. Like there’s all these other hats you have to wear and it’s not in my experience of talking to people and observing. It’s not even like just independent. It’s like, no, at every level, if you want to be a writer of any kind at any point, all right. Time for you to market yourself and get out there and you doing the podcasts help, but you also have to press the flesh and do the Barnes and Noble things.
00:11:08:41 – 00:11:10:55
Agent Palmer
And it’s it’s a lot.
00:11:10:59 – 00:11:28:48
Tony Rapino
It is a lot. And I you know, I resisted it for a very long time. As really like my writer friends who over the past years have been like, listen, man, you know, you have to start coming out to these, you know, because I thought like, oh, it’s good enough. I’ll do my YouTube channel and I’ll post on Twitter.
00:11:28:53 – 00:11:53:39
Tony Rapino
And God knows that stuff barely reaches anyone. And, you really have to network and you really have to get out. Like when Tommy and the Order Cosmic Champions came out. I just didn’t really think about how I was going to market that personally. Like, I knew my partner Tony had things lined up and we had podcast lined up and we had like, you know, the normal sort of online sort of stuff.
00:11:53:44 – 00:12:07:51
Tony Rapino
But it really wasn’t until a couple of years after that came out that I was watching other writers doing, like reading tours. Okay. I was like, oh, I could have done a reading tour. Like I just didn’t think that was something I could do. I, I.
00:12:07:54 – 00:12:37:03
Agent Palmer
Didn’t think so. So your two years removed from that and that experience, do you now look at the finished book as half of the journey is that I mean I don’t, I like I, I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but like having seen it and watched it and heard people talk about it, it feels like finishing the book and getting it in your hand is half the journey.
00:12:37:07 – 00:13:13:27
Tony Rapino
So yeah, you wouldn’t think. You wouldn’t think it. I mean, writing, writing, the book writers think, or at least young writers, new writers think that writing the book is the entirety of the journey. And that’s not even counting the editing and the rewrites and the submissions and looking for a publisher looking for an agent. And yeah, I mean, you’re you’re probably once you once you’ve typed, you know, the, not that you’re actually going to type the end at the end of your novel, but once you’ve typed the end, you probably are if you’re lucky, a couple of years away from that thing, you know, reaching an audience if you’re lucky.
00:13:13:38 – 00:13:42:19
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It it it’s it’s kind of the and I think a lot of people that start somewhere else get kind of either disenfranchized or kind of, I don’t know, they, they need someone to like, pick up their sails because like, I, I put out a podcast and if I get one response, whether it’s a text message or a tweet or a thread or whatever social network or an email, it’s like, oh, I hit somebody.
00:13:42:24 – 00:14:08:06
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And you know, and because of the nature of it being digital, I can go like, oh, I had so many downloads, okay, I’ve hit people and the my blog’s no different. You know, if somebody reads my blog, I get a ping. I mean, not physically, but like it counts somewhere and I can go look at the analytics with books, even if you sell the thing, you know, guarantee people read it.
00:14:08:10 – 00:14:14:35
Tony Rapino
Yeah. And if they read it, there’s no guarantee they’re going to review it. And if they review it, there’s no guarantee that it’s going to say what you want it to say.
00:14:14:48 – 00:14:40:13
Agent Palmer
But that’s yeah, that’s a yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I will shamelessly say I’ve never asked for reviews for this show. But I also think that like, unlike a book, which especially when we’re talking about agents and publishers is very much not just about the author anymore. Yeah, but this podcast is very much just about me.
00:14:40:18 – 00:14:51:40
Agent Palmer
I, if I’m having a good time and somebody enjoys listening to it, that’s that’s the win. But there is so much else in publishing, and I’m glad we’re on publishing, because I want to ask you this.
00:14:51:45 – 00:14:52:52
Tony Rapino
Yes.
00:14:52:57 – 00:15:25:55
Agent Palmer
As we record this, summer is starting to dwindle into fall. Not officially, but, you know, the temperatures come down a little bit of late in our neck of the woods. Yeah. And you’re getting ready to go back to school very soon. But all throughout the summer and even parts of last spring, as we’ve been in touch and in contact, you’ve been working as a teacher continuously, and you had some summer stuff and you’ve been writing scripts for Retro Days.
00:15:26:08 – 00:15:29:44
Agent Palmer
Yep. And working on your novel.
00:15:29:49 – 00:15:32:49
Tony Rapino
Yeah. And I still feel like a lazy bum.
00:15:32:54 – 00:15:53:06
Agent Palmer
We’re that we’re not going to untangle. That’s that’s for like, if you want to come lay on my couch, we can talk about that. That’s a different thing. But what I want to know is because I’ve talked to a lot of people and look, all of those things are creative pursuits. I will I will put teaching as a creative pursuit because I don’t think it’s anything other than that.
00:15:53:06 – 00:16:18:24
Agent Palmer
If you’re going to be good at it, sure. But you do all these creative things for the day job to to pay the bills. And then you come home or close the laptop from one thing and put on your writing hat. How do you stay motivated when you. I wrote, you know, however long a script is or however long two scripts is or however long your lesson plan is.
00:16:18:24 – 00:16:31:28
Agent Palmer
Or how do you stay? I look, I know you’re hard on yourself. But the fact that you still get to it, how do you do that? Because like, it has to be draining. Like, oh, I just finished writing.
00:16:31:33 – 00:17:09:10
Tony Rapino
Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, the dirty secret is I don’t always stay motivated. You know? And I’ve been partly with your help. Not that, you know, you’ve been helping, but just from listening to your podcast, I, I’ve gotten better at being okay with that. Okay. Like, if I’ve, you know, if I taught a class and then graded a bunch of essays and then wrote, you know, a thousand words toward a script and it’s like 5:00 in the evening, I’m, I, I’m nicer to myself if I decide to call it a day and maybe relax for an hour and then make dinner, you know, and kind of enjoy the evening.
00:17:09:21 – 00:17:28:35
Tony Rapino
So I’m not quite as, you know, I’m not super barbaric against myself telling me, like, I have to also get another thousand words into the novel. Has that slowed progress? Sure. But, you know, I kind of set some goals in my mind. I was telling myself that I would prefer to, you know, finish this novel by the end of summer.
00:17:28:48 – 00:17:32:43
Tony Rapino
That’s looking less likely, but it’s moving. You know, I’m getting close.
00:17:32:46 – 00:17:56:00
Agent Palmer
You do you I mean, I guess so. There’s two massive questions, right? You can answer both. Or either. Do you feel better about yourself, knowing that you’re treating yourself better? And is the writing when you do get to it better because you’re not, being mean to yourself, right? Like, I mean, you get a lot more.
00:17:56:00 – 00:18:08:25
Agent Palmer
I mean, the what’s the saying? You catch more flies with, honey than shit, right? But, like, when you’re nicer to yourself, you have to be in a better headspace for creation.
00:18:08:30 – 00:18:27:40
Tony Rapino
Yeah, yeah, well, I’ve, I it’s one of those things, like, I don’t even know if I’m answering either of these questions now, but I, I’ve learned, and this is something I try to teach my students as well as their new writers, and they’re still kind of trying to figure out their own routines and who they are as creators and who they are as learners.
00:18:27:45 – 00:18:53:07
Tony Rapino
You have to understand who you are as a creator, as a writer, as a learner, whatever. And understand that pushing yourself to be something you’re not isn’t necessarily going to create better output. So I mean, to answer at least one of your questions, I think by by sitting back and allowing myself some time to think, I think you saw my post earlier, actually on Twitter, I actually got to have the show and I ran to Twitter and I said.
00:18:53:11 – 00:18:55:09
Agent Palmer
You know, from the shower.
00:18:55:14 – 00:19:18:12
Tony Rapino
Yeah, yeah. And that and that was because I took a break. I was like, you know what? It’s, I’d like to just take a break in the shower. Sometimes I like to take a midday shower. You know, it kind of cool off and, just refreshed myself, and I’m in there. And one of the great things of that, and this is another thing we’ve talked about, is like detaching from technology and social media and all that stuff.
00:19:18:16 – 00:19:36:53
Tony Rapino
You can’t you can’t post on on social media when you’re in the chat. Well, I mean, I guess some people can, but I certainly can’t. Yeah. No. And, it gives you that moment of quiet reflection. And I, I was thinking about my novel, even though that’s not what I was working on today. I was working on my fall lesson plans and prepping all that crap.
00:19:37:07 – 00:19:57:47
Tony Rapino
And maybe that’s why my mind naturally went to the novel. Because I needed my mind needed the break. But it kind of floated there, and I was thinking about it, and I realized what the ending’s going to be, which is huge for me because I, I’m 83,000 words into a probably a 90,000 word novel, and I didn’t know how it was going to end.
00:19:57:52 – 00:20:20:41
Agent Palmer
I still think it’s amazing because I feel like, you let like from afar, especially as someone who’s only really dabbled in the last 20 years with, like short story fiction, I’ve always been a let the let let the story tell itself.
00:20:20:46 – 00:20:22:25
Tony Rapino
Yeah.
00:20:22:30 – 00:20:34:50
Agent Palmer
Look, I know there’s planners and there’s plotters, but if you’re going to let the story write itself, even if it’s a short story, you could be writing for a while.
00:20:34:54 – 00:20:58:12
Tony Rapino
Yeah, it’s a scary thing. It really, it can become very when you’re when you’re at the point where I was. Yeah. And you don’t know how the thing’s going to end that you’ve been working on for two years. It becomes. And that’s part of the reason why it can sometimes take longer than you think, because you start to stall out, you know, and you start to question yourself and you start to wonder, you know, was I faking this all this time?
00:20:58:17 – 00:21:03:00
Tony Rapino
But I mean, you know, I’ve been doing this long enough to know that I’ll get there.
00:21:03:05 – 00:21:23:16
Agent Palmer
Oh, yeah. There’s a definite like, and I feel like in sports it’s probably like the easy metaphor. It’s like, oh, well, you know, on the basketball court. Well, he missed seven shots in a row. Or like in baseball, like, oh, he hasn’t gotten a hit in five games. But like, if you’ve been at it long enough.
00:21:23:20 – 00:21:55:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah. For every, you know, streak of good things, there’s a streak of bad things and they don’t go back and forth. And most of the averaging out is there’s a reason we average things out. You’ve been there. You’ll get through it. But yeah, I feel like younger you would probably not only have not been kind to yourself, you would have been like burning the midnight oil to, like, 3 a.m., going like, just pacing around, like, what’s.
00:21:55:17 – 00:22:02:14
Agent Palmer
What’s the end? Yeah. Where is it, where is it, where is. And then it’s just now it’s just counterproductive, right?
00:22:02:14 – 00:22:02:27
Tony Rapino
Yeah.
00:22:02:27 – 00:22:17:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But I still think, you know, space is good, but it’s I don’t I still don’t know where you get it from though. The, the, the idea that you’re doing all these creative pursuits all day.
00:22:17:15 – 00:22:22:05
Tony Rapino
Right. Oh, going back to you like the original question of like, where do I get the motivation?
00:22:22:05 – 00:22:24:15
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:22:24:20 – 00:22:54:45
Tony Rapino
And I think you probably can relate to this, at least on some level. The need to create is strong in me. Okay. You know, and I it almost doesn’t matter if I never if no one ever sees the stuff. It almost doesn’t matter if you know, I’m never what you know, objectively, someone would call a successful writer, or creator in any of my, you know, pursuits.
00:22:54:50 – 00:23:04:31
Tony Rapino
But I don’t feel sane. I don’t feel okay without producing something. Anything.
00:23:04:40 – 00:23:34:30
Agent Palmer
Well. But, I mean, but you’re producing something all along during the day, like, you’re. I mean, you are not, you know, the prototypical, like, I was in retail all day, and I come home and I get to create something. You’re putting out a script that in two weeks will be on YouTube, having been, recorded by other like minded professionals and edited by like minded professionals.
00:23:34:35 – 00:23:57:06
Agent Palmer
And so it’s not like you are toiling away all day with no creative. So that’s I guess that’s where it is. It’s your personal novel that you’re working on right now, is what I would consider Creative Overdrive, because you’re already doing something creative.
00:23:57:10 – 00:24:02:17
Tony Rapino
I guess I don’t, I mean, and you’re being I think you’re being generous. Well, no.
00:24:02:22 – 00:24:17:07
Agent Palmer
I mean, I consider this podcast creative, so, you know, so, so and that’s just us talking in me editing like, I mean, I talk about the, our loose definition of creative. Yeah, I of course.
00:24:17:12 – 00:24:38:59
Tony Rapino
I think what it comes down to is, as much as I enjoy writing those scripts for, retro days and I do, I love that channel to death. You know, I, I want to see it succeed. I want to see it become like, a huge thing. But at the end of the day, I’m not. I’m not getting what I need out of it.
00:24:39:01 – 00:24:40:39
Tony Rapino
Okay? And I it’s.
00:24:40:40 – 00:24:42:35
Agent Palmer
Not scratching the exact itch.
00:24:42:40 – 00:25:00:05
Tony Rapino
Right. And I’m struggling to to define what that means exactly. But I guess probably having something to do with my personal interest in horror and Halloween and and the spooky stuff and whatever. It’s not mine. You know, like, sure, I’m writing the scripts, but it’s not my it’s not really my channel.
00:25:00:10 – 00:25:01:38
Agent Palmer
It’s a collaborative effort.
00:25:01:53 – 00:25:22:08
Tony Rapino
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it’s very much like nonfiction. I’m doing research for it. I can get creative in there. And I certainly do. Our some of our newer episodes have been like these sort of narrative experiences where, you know, the characters of Retro Days go into a time machine, into the, into the past, and there’s dialog and stuff.
00:25:22:08 – 00:25:40:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I mean, I, I, I get to interject here real quick. And if you haven’t checked out Retro Days, you should if you’re listening to this, but also when they do the time travel episodes, it’s wonderful. However, the host picks on you are are you writing jokes to pick on yourself?
00:25:40:36 – 00:26:00:20
Tony Rapino
That’s me. Yeah, that. You know what? It’s funny that you mention that because my dad, the one day my dad calls me up and he says, you know, it was a really great episode, but I don’t like that John was making fun of you and was like that. Nothing comes out of his mouth that I didn’t put there.
00:26:00:25 – 00:26:08:54
Tony Rapino
I’ve written I’m the script writer, so, like, I make it sound like it’s him picking on me, but yeah, it’s me. It’s me making fun of myself. Okay.
00:26:08:59 – 00:26:13:38
Agent Palmer
All right, I you should definitely spread it around. That’s, you know.
00:26:13:43 – 00:26:16:33
Tony Rapino
Yeah, I, you know, it’s it’s it’s weird.
00:26:16:36 – 00:26:19:34
Agent Palmer
To be self depreciating like, I know that.
00:26:19:39 – 00:26:45:38
Tony Rapino
Right now, but I’m aware that people who watch the channel, despite there being a credits, despite it kind of being mentioned throughout the, you know, the channel, I, I’m aware people watch that and just assume that that’s just John talking and it’s like totally, you know, his perspective and his comments and whatnot. But yeah, he, he, he jokingly calls himself the talking monkey in the, in the discord.
00:26:45:38 – 00:26:50:11
Tony Rapino
And I’m, you know, I’m the, the writer, the the monkey, the writing monkey.
00:26:50:11 – 00:27:17:18
Agent Palmer
I mean, the man with the strings. I mean, you know, that’s that’s fair. So one of the other things that I have, and look, I this past spring, I got into baking, and it it’s not related to you because I only usually bake bread, but I do know, and anybody who follows you on any social network at all.
00:27:17:22 – 00:27:19:52
Agent Palmer
You are Baker.
00:27:19:57 – 00:27:22:03
Tony Rapino
Yeah. Yeah, I enjoy baking.
00:27:22:03 – 00:27:43:13
Agent Palmer
You enjoy baking? Which makes you a baker. That’s that’s my definition. You know, where where does it come from? I mean, for me, it was just like I wanted to try it. I, I, I had family members who were doing it or who had done it, and I was like, I want to do this. And then I started baking bread and I was like, I really like this.
00:27:43:18 – 00:27:50:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And that’s kind of. And then it got hot and I went, I don’t want to do this until it gets cold again.
00:27:50:22 – 00:28:33:16
Tony Rapino
Oh, I do not know. I don’t have air conditioning in the main part of like at least in the kitchen. So I will not turn that oven on if it’s super hot. Yeah. So yeah, the baking does kind of fall off a little bit. Like my pizza nights fall off a little bit, because of that. But to answer your question, where it comes from, it’s a natural extension of my interest in cooking, which started when I moved to Pennsylvania from Brooklyn and realized that 90%, at least at the time, in the early 90s, 90% of the Italian pastries, the bread, the the food, all the Italian stuff that that I enjoyed in Brooklyn,
00:28:33:21 – 00:28:55:32
Tony Rapino
you just couldn’t get it here. You couldn’t find it. There was, you know, there was no going out to the bakery and and picking up a cannoli, you know, you weren’t going to go get, your, Saint Joseph’s Day pastries or anything like that. So I, you know, kind of early on and certainly my mom was cooking and she was making all the, the, family recipes and everything.
00:28:55:42 – 00:29:18:40
Tony Rapino
But essentially, as soon as I was in a position to want to and be able to cook for myself, I was, I was I was cooking and learning all the family recipes, making the Sunday gravy, making, you know, the meatballs and everything. And, over time, like I said, just it’s a natural extension over time because I enjoy cooking and I like good food.
00:29:18:45 – 00:29:30:28
Tony Rapino
I got interested in different, baked goods, and then I just had a natural interest in, food science as well. So fermentation.
00:29:30:28 – 00:30:03:57
Agent Palmer
So I have to interject at any point along this journey, did you become a. And I’ll admit it, for about two years I was a Food Network addict. It past I’ll admit it passed. But there was a good two years. When I think at some point after I moved out, I was on my own, I, you know, and that was around the time of Good Eats which Alton Brown was mainly food science.
00:30:03:57 – 00:30:04:33
Tony Rapino
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:04:33 – 00:30:14:48
Agent Palmer
He was from and I think that kind of helped a little bit. But like did, did, did did you go through a Food Network phase?
00:30:14:53 – 00:30:38:23
Tony Rapino
I sure did, when I had cable, I was watching Food Network all the time. And even now I’ll still watch, food like YouTube. I’ll watch Chef John. There was a point where I was really addicted to the bone Appetit channel because they were doing this interesting sort of, cross-promotional thing where, like, all of the personalities would interact in the test kitchen.
00:30:38:23 – 00:30:51:47
Tony Rapino
Okay, so, like, if you watch Brad Leone doing his show, then you would see Claire and they would like cross paths in the kitchen. So it felt it was almost like reality television crossed with, food.
00:30:51:58 – 00:30:53:14
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:30:53:19 – 00:31:01:34
Tony Rapino
Then they went through a whole thing. Not that I’m like again to all that because it’s not that interesting. But I stopped watching that. But yeah, I still watch YouTube stuff.
00:31:01:40 – 00:31:10:51
Agent Palmer
But you, you, you experiment on a level that I do not I have I my experiment is I’m going to try, new bread.
00:31:10:56 – 00:31:12:44
Tony Rapino
Okay. And if it goes well.
00:31:12:49 – 00:31:15:14
Agent Palmer
I will mess around with it the second time.
00:31:15:18 – 00:31:17:12
Tony Rapino
Sure.
00:31:17:17 – 00:31:41:20
Agent Palmer
I’ve, I’ve looked at your Instagram smart. Your social networks when you’re baking are not good for anyone’s waistline. But I’ve read some of your comments that you make. Okay. You are. I think you are as hard on your baking and cooking skills as you are on your writing skills.
00:31:41:25 – 00:31:54:27
Tony Rapino
I have a lot of trouble. I have a lot of trouble being proud of myself. I guess. I don’t, I don’t I’m not very prideful. I, I, I don’t think.
00:31:54:27 – 00:32:41:14
Agent Palmer
It’s pride, man. I, I genuinely believe having gotten to know you and also having been like you, we spend so much time in our daily lives with the things that our passions for us, that consume us and drive us, that always inevitably end with the following phrase, what’s next? Sure. And so whether you’re like me and don’t really celebrate anything, or you’re like other people and you do the celebration only even the people I know that celebrate within the creative space, the party ends and somebody goes, well, what’s next?
00:32:41:19 – 00:33:23:41
Agent Palmer
And and I, I don’t know, none of us are in rat races, right? Like nobody’s going to be upset if I skip a blog post and, you know, there might be a few listeners that get upset if I skipped a podcast episode. Yeah, but no, there’s no outside pressure. But internally, we are so wired to what’s next the next script, the next chapter, the next episode, the next blog post that it feels like as creatives, we are hard on ourselves because the next time we know there’s going to be a next time, the next time it will be better.
00:33:23:45 – 00:33:32:42
Agent Palmer
And, you know, and so the postmortem on any project, even the good ones, is, well, how can I make this better? So clearly it wasn’t good enough.
00:33:32:47 – 00:34:02:40
Tony Rapino
No, it’s never good enough. It never I mean, and that’s I mean, that’s another one of the things that I try to work through. I know it’s not healthy to be that way necessarily, but I, you know, I talk to people about this stuff. It’s it is in my nature to get, you know, 55 and four star reviews on a novel and then get one one star review and believe the one one star review and distrust all of the higher reviews.
00:34:02:45 – 00:34:03:57
Tony Rapino
I don’t know why that is.
00:34:03:57 – 00:34:06:26
Agent Palmer
No, I mean, I it’s it’s.
00:34:06:26 – 00:34:12:02
Tony Rapino
It’s like finally someone that guy knows he found, he figured it out. He knows that I’m okay. But really.
00:34:12:02 – 00:34:18:40
Agent Palmer
After all this time, after all this time, do you still have imposter syndrome?
00:34:18:45 – 00:34:19:54
Tony Rapino
Oh, yeah.
00:34:19:59 – 00:34:36:34
Agent Palmer
Yeah, you have, like, on your shelf. Like your author shelf. There’s more than one published work. All flukes. This is.
00:34:36:39 – 00:34:37:58
Tony Rapino
I mean, I know it’s I know, I.
00:34:37:58 – 00:34:45:48
Agent Palmer
Mean, even like, like, take a look at retro days, like, you guys, celebrated a milestone recently.
00:34:45:53 – 00:34:47:21
Tony Rapino
Yeah.
00:34:47:26 – 00:34:49:07
Agent Palmer
Is that like, what.
00:34:49:07 – 00:34:50:38
Tony Rapino
Was a 5050 episodes right.
00:34:50:38 – 00:35:07:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So but I mean by the time people are listening to this you’ll have blown by that. But again because there’s always a what’s next what’s next. But like that’s not 50 flukes is it. Or is that one slightly different because it’s a collaboration.
00:35:07:22 – 00:35:29:18
Tony Rapino
Yeah. I mean there’s so many there’s so many, people working on that stuff. So it doesn’t end with my, you know, oh, a novel. Not that a novel ends with me. I mean, obviously there are editors and, you know, publishers and the cover design, and there’s a lot of other hands in that as well. I think everything’s kind of collaborative, really, you know, to a certain degree.
00:35:29:18 – 00:35:35:51
Tony Rapino
And we’re not alone. And almost I can’t think of maybe my sculptures, I guess, is the only thing that no one else like.
00:35:35:56 – 00:36:00:50
Agent Palmer
I mean, in theory, your sculptures are, are, are collaborative and I, I, I’m going to interject myself because you’ve admitted that occasionally you listen to the show when you’re, you know, spinning pots. Yeah. And that means that you’re not alone. And I’m not I’m not saying I’m like, oh, you should, you know, press in there and expand here.
00:36:00:50 – 00:36:08:55
Agent Palmer
But like, you know, there are other ideas from the ether. You’re not legitimately in a silo by yourself in some.
00:36:08:58 – 00:36:09:46
Tony Rapino
Oh, sure.
00:36:10:00 – 00:36:20:12
Agent Palmer
And so there are always, yeah, other things, kind of pressing on us that. Yeah, as artists we use.
00:36:20:17 – 00:36:20:42
Tony Rapino
Oh apps.
00:36:20:47 – 00:36:22:20
Agent Palmer
For other things.
00:36:22:25 – 00:36:49:45
Tony Rapino
And I like that. I like that notion of like the ongoing conversation of humanity and in a way, like everything affects everything else. You know, nothing exists in a vacuum. You know, whether you know it or not, you’re being influenced by something. And I do like that idea. I like that notion because it sort of it’s the it’s the connectivity between you and all these people that you people you may maybe never will meet, people who may not be alive anymore.
00:36:49:50 – 00:37:02:18
Tony Rapino
And we are all still having this ongoing conversation together and building off of each other’s work, sometimes in a very direct way, sometimes in very indirect ways.
00:37:02:20 – 00:37:22:58
Agent Palmer
I guess the question I have is, as you’re saying, that and I agree with everything you’re saying, but the anxiety level gets a little bit ratcheted up because now I’m not alone anymore. You know, it’s like, oh, crap, I’m standing on the shoulders of all the other people now. Yeah. The anxiety level goes up a little bit.
00:37:23:02 – 00:37:30:14
Tony Rapino
I don’t know that I’m thinking about that as I’m working. Usually it’s it’s very much a,
00:37:30:19 – 00:37:46:56
Agent Palmer
Do you, do you get in the state like not. I’m not going to say you go zen, but like, do you get in a state where it’s like, regardless of what you’re doing, but that it’s like, all right, I’m in it, I’m feeling it. Let’s go, let’s bake, let’s write, let’s sculpt. Whatever it is.
00:37:47:01 – 00:38:05:44
Tony Rapino
Those are those are the best moments. There’s the moments that I think all of our, all creative strive for. I’d be lying if I said I was always in that moment. Oh, there are there are plenty of times where I am just digging every single word out of myself as if I were, you know, carving my liver out.
00:38:05:48 – 00:38:24:31
Tony Rapino
And, you know, it’s a struggle. And, you know, if I get 50 words out of the session, I’m lucky. And you feel worse somehow, like you’ve expended more energy doing those, writing those 50 words than the day that you wrote 2000 words in the zone. But, you know, I mean.
00:38:24:36 – 00:38:29:21
Agent Palmer
So you said your 83,000 words in now.
00:38:29:25 – 00:38:30:16
Tony Rapino
Yeah.
00:38:30:21 – 00:38:57:03
Agent Palmer
Looking back, because obviously there have been many days, and some of those days have been 20,000 words or 2000 words in 20 minutes, and some of those have been 50 words in five hours. But they all add up to that 83. Like, obviously when you’re in it, it’s a very different thing. But looking back on where you’re at, even though I know you still haven’t, as you said earlier, you have an ending to write.
00:38:57:16 – 00:39:03:34
Agent Palmer
Do you look back and go like as a whole though, or do you look back and go, oh, I remember those 50 words.
00:39:03:39 – 00:39:06:06
Tony Rapino
When I’m editing. I remember those 50 words.
00:39:06:06 – 00:39:07:06
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:39:07:11 – 00:39:25:41
Tony Rapino
Because you can tell when you could. There’s a very distinct, lack of coherence sometimes when you’re editing and you hit one of those that one of those, stretches where you could tell you’re just trying to advance the plot to get to the next part of it so that you can just get to a point where you’re in it again.
00:39:25:42 – 00:39:36:06
Tony Rapino
Okay. So, yeah, when I’m, when I’m editing, I see those moments and I don’t remember them, I can’t, I can’t say like, oh, that was January the 2nd, you know, but I but.
00:39:36:06 – 00:39:36:37
Agent Palmer
You can see it on.
00:39:36:37 – 00:39:42:28
Tony Rapino
The page. Yeah. Yeah. I assume that that was a struggling a moment. I was struggling to get to the next point.
00:39:42:33 – 00:39:50:28
Agent Palmer
All right. I mean but is it only there like, I mean, I does that kind of bleed into the sculpting to.
00:39:50:33 – 00:40:13:13
Tony Rapino
The sculpting is a very different animal for me. I think mostly it’s the preparation of, of, for, for sculpting where I’m, I don’t want to say struggling, but where I’m like, really? You know, there’s a lot more going into that. Like, I, I usually what I do is I usually sketch out an idea first, okay. And I’m not great.
00:40:13:16 – 00:40:32:31
Tony Rapino
I mean, I, I used to love drawing when I was a kid, but I, I’m not great at it. So it’s really mostly for my own. Like, reference for the, for the sculpting and during that, the, the conceiving of an idea. What am I going to sculpt? That part can be a little bit like the 50 word thing we were just talking about.
00:40:32:36 – 00:40:55:29
Tony Rapino
But once, once I’m sculpting, it’s wow, man, I love I love the feeling of because I let I let go, okay, I’m playing, I’m playing either a podcast like you said, or I’m playing music and my mind is elsewhere. Okay? Like, it’s not like when I write where my mind has to be on the plot and the characters and the continuity and blah, blah, blah.
00:40:55:33 – 00:41:03:48
Tony Rapino
It when I’m sculpting, my mind is in the ether. And in fact, sculpting sometimes helps me with the writing because I can just just let. Yeah.
00:41:03:53 – 00:41:29:07
Agent Palmer
How about cooking? Baking is is that more in the sculpting vein where you get to just be in it and check out, I mean, not check out? You still need to know your numbers and your measurements and your temperatures. I get all that, but like, is that, it sounds horrible for me to say, but was that a thoughtless thing for you where you can kind of remove yourself?
00:41:29:07 – 00:41:31:44
Agent Palmer
Or is it only the sculpting?
00:41:31:49 – 00:41:52:41
Tony Rapino
That’s that’s only the sculpting? Or if I were still painting and drawing and that kind of stuff, any of those kinds of like the, visual arts. Okay, I that’s where my mind can go be free and dance in the fields and whatnot. But, no, cooking is a sport. Cooking and baking is a sport for me.
00:41:52:46 – 00:42:11:28
Tony Rapino
It’s there’s something. It’s like you want the best stats, so I, I’m like, how can I get this roast chicken, these baked potatoes and the green beans? Almond. Dean, how can I get all of that on the table at the same time? And hot.
00:42:11:37 – 00:42:26:17
Agent Palmer
Tea. So you see, you you are a man after my own, I guess. Stomach, because I am very much. I don’t like. It’s. I think Thanksgiving may be one of my favorite cooking sports.
00:42:26:22 – 00:42:27:02
Tony Rapino
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:27:07 – 00:42:51:31
Agent Palmer
Because it very much is, it’s that but there’s always like more than three dishes. Yeah. And it’s like none of us have professional kitchens. Yeah. We only have so many burners. Most of us only have I mean I have a toaster oven on my countertop and an oven. So what can go where? How do I time it out?
00:42:51:31 – 00:43:03:45
Agent Palmer
So everything good. And then the the, the one killer to all of it, which makes or breaks everything is. Have you done the math on your turkey. Right.
00:43:03:50 – 00:43:07:47
Tony Rapino
Yep. And so those turkeys they can be a real pain in the butt.
00:43:07:47 – 00:43:14:07
Agent Palmer
They can I, I, I, I like that you. Yeah I think, I think cooking is definitely a sport.
00:43:14:12 – 00:43:22:57
Tony Rapino
I woke up I woke up to this. My brother usually is the one doing Thanksgiving I so I can’t take credit for attempting that usually.
00:43:22:57 – 00:43:33:21
Agent Palmer
Look I, I, I usually don’t do Thanksgiving either, but I do Friendsgiving every year because I want the opportunity to cook all that stuff. And I require leftovers.
00:43:33:26 – 00:43:34:11
Tony Rapino
Absolutely.
00:43:34:11 – 00:43:45:26
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s one of the things that if you’ve never not hosted that kind of a meal, you don’t know what you’re missing as far as leftovers go.
00:43:45:31 – 00:43:49:01
Tony Rapino
But leftovers are better than the initial meal, in my opinion.
00:43:49:01 – 00:44:13:17
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s such a letdown. I spent 12 hours cooking this. Or 8 hours or 10 hours cooking this. We sat down. We ate it all in 35 minutes. We hung around the table for an extra 45, and now it’s cleanup time. And it’s definitely not. It’s you know what it is? Thanksgiving is more like the 50 words than it is the 2000, right?
00:44:13:18 – 00:44:25:57
Agent Palmer
I put all this effort in and that’s all I get out of it, which is why the leftovers make it better. Because it lasts it it gets it closer to the 2000. It lasts longer.
00:44:26:02 – 00:44:46:29
Tony Rapino
Yeah. You get extra creative with the left. I mean, at least I do. I don’t just warm up the leftovers. I’m often doing weird things with it to make I. Well, no, that’s not true. The first the first leftover meal I’ll do just leftovers. Okay, after that, I’m making potpie. I’m making like Thanksgiving Day sandwiches.
00:44:46:29 – 00:45:02:31
Agent Palmer
I think it all depends on what you run out of first as well. Yeah, it’s like it’s like. All right, well, I mean, I can just redo. I can run back the meal once or twice if I have everything. But at a certain point you’re like, but all I have left is Turkey.
00:45:02:36 – 00:45:03:20
Tony Rapino
00:45:03:24 – 00:45:10:28
Agent Palmer
Okay. Well now we got to get creative and that’s when for me I’m lazy. It’s just. All right. Time to make turkey chili.
00:45:10:32 – 00:45:34:04
Tony Rapino
That sounds good too though I like to I’ll eat turkey chili any day. But you know, the other thing too though is the reason it feels like the 50 words sometimes. Especially if you’re the one cooking. Yeah, at least I feel this way. And it doesn’t necessarily have to be Thanksgiving. It’s like when you’re cooking. By the time I sit down, I’m so jacked up like I’ve been rushing around the kitchen and you’re trying to time everything.
00:45:34:13 – 00:45:42:19
Tony Rapino
I can’t kind of, like, calm myself down and enjoy the meal I’m eating the meal the way I was cooking it, which is fast.
00:45:42:19 – 00:46:11:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I find that to be way too accurate even when it’s a small meal. If I’m rushing to cook I am rushing to eat. I think going out to eat, which I don’t do all that often, might be the one time maybe when I’m a guest I try and relax. But when I’m hosting I tend not to enjoy it.
00:46:11:17 – 00:46:20:50
Agent Palmer
I should probably I mean, we started off with you expanding yourself and trying to get better at things. I should get better at enjoying my own food.
00:46:20:55 – 00:46:39:30
Tony Rapino
Yeah, yeah, I well, you know, and I’ll catch myself halfway through a meal sometimes and be like. And I’ll try to, like, physically slow myself down and I’ll stop and I’ll like smell the food, look at the food. And it’s crazy too, because sometimes I think the best times is when, if I’m just cooking for myself and I’m taking my time.
00:46:39:35 – 00:47:01:03
Tony Rapino
Yeah, like, I like, like making the plate look nice and like having that sort of, you know, that aspect of enjoyment of the food, not just the eating of it, but the way it looks, the way it smells. And I think sometimes and, you know, I’m not necessarily taking pictures of it. I know some if you’re doing that.
00:47:01:03 – 00:47:08:27
Tony Rapino
Oh, you got to take a picture. You put it on Instagram I, it’s for me I just, I want to see I want to see a pretty full plate of food.
00:47:08:27 – 00:47:34:12
Agent Palmer
And, and look my one of my specialties in the last maybe decade has been chili. But like, I’m, I’m horrible with chili in that I never make the same one twice. So like if you want to come over for chili, that’s great. But if you like it, you’ll never eat it again because I don’t measure anything and I’m always like, all right, what’s going in it this time?
00:47:34:17 – 00:47:44:11
Agent Palmer
And for better or worse, that also means that if I was going to take a photo, they’d all look relatively the same, despite the fact that they taste way different.
00:47:44:15 – 00:48:00:52
Tony Rapino
Yeah, yeah. Well, once you have a, familiarity with the recipe and once you’ve made a certain thing a number of times, like I’m the same way with a lot of different foods, I don’t use recipes for a ton of stuff I make because I know how to make it. Yeah. And I and because I know how to make it.
00:48:00:52 – 00:48:16:00
Tony Rapino
Yeah, there is that, you know, and then maybe that goes back to us being creatives and just wanting to see like, well, what’s going to happen now? Like what I read that cinnamon and cocoa powder and chill is pretty good. And so I’m going to give this a try.
00:48:16:05 – 00:48:25:23
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, at some point, I guess, what we’ve learned from all this is that we need to get together and you’re coming down for a chili at some point?
00:48:25:28 – 00:48:32:42
Tony Rapino
Absolutely. I will devour chili any day. Do you make it spicy?
00:48:32:47 – 00:49:03:28
Agent Palmer
Depends. If if of one of the things is Steph doesn’t love really spicy, so I can give it a spice, like, palette, but I can’t make it hot otherwise, because I make a lot of it because there’s no point in making a little chili. Otherwise, I’m eating chili for, like, a week. Yeah, I need to make it so that she likes it enough to eat some leftovers.
00:49:03:28 – 00:49:07:22
Agent Palmer
So I’m not eating it for lunch and dinner for the next ten days.
00:49:07:27 – 00:49:09:28
Tony Rapino
Yeah, that’s that makes sense.
00:49:09:33 – 00:49:11:28
Agent Palmer
Or you come over, I’ll send you home.
00:49:11:28 – 00:49:20:34
Tony Rapino
So you gotta have. I mean, you know, first day is chili, second is chili dogs, third day is chili nachos.
00:49:20:38 – 00:49:22:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:49:22:32 – 00:49:31:35
Tony Rapino
I have trouble not eating like I have trouble not turning leftovers into something new. I love having leftover white rice because, man.
00:49:31:40 – 00:49:45:41
Agent Palmer
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s true. It’s it’s a blank canvas. Yeah.
00:49:45:45 – 00:50:15:51
Agent Palmer
When I go back into my own history for just exactly why I started this podcast, I can’t rightly remember. But what I can tell you is that I didn’t do it to make friends. But that has been a welcome and fairly unexpected surprise. Tony and I get along so well because as creatives, even in vastly different but sometimes overlapping mediums, we both have similar flaws and it’s much easier to push the specificity and boulder up the proverbial creative hill when you have help.
00:50:15:56 – 00:50:35:54
Agent Palmer
As you heard Tony say, the need to create is strong in me. And he also said, I have a lot of trouble being proud of myself and well, if I’ve never explicitly said those things on this podcast or in real life, they apply to me too. Perhaps that’s not where the friendship started, but it’s certainly enough to sustain it.
00:50:35:59 – 00:50:57:14
Agent Palmer
And it doesn’t hurt that outside of the writing and creative spaces, we can swap some kitchen stories as well. There’s always more than meets the eye to most creatives, especially writers. You just have to take the time to find out exactly what they transform into. When they put down the pen. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 135.
00:50:57:14 – 00:51:28:00
Agent Palmer
And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact my guest, Tony and myself in the show notes. There you can also find Tony’s website Anthony J rapino.com. That’s a n’t only J rapping dotcom. Plus you can watch all of Tony’s Retro Days scripts come to life on youtube.com slash retro days again, that’s retro desi.
00:51:28:04 – 00:51:49:04
Agent Palmer
The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:51:49:09 – 00:51:56:58
Unknown
You.
00:51:57:03 – 00:52:19:27
Unknown
See? You.
00:52:19:32 – 00:52:23:41
Unknown
See?
00:52:23:45 – 00:52:26:21
Agent Palmer
All right, Tony, do you have one final question for me?
00:52:26:26 – 00:52:35:24
Tony Rapino
Oh, it’s a doozy. It’s a three parter. I don’t know, you may only decide to answer one part of this, and I’m trolling you a little bit with the first question kind of two.
00:52:35:29 – 00:52:35:59
Agent Palmer
Let’s go.
00:52:35:59 – 00:52:46:07
Tony Rapino
All right. All right. So I know you’ve talked about this on your podcast, and it’s almost like a joke that people will always be asking you, when are you going to write your novel?
00:52:46:09 – 00:52:46:38
Agent Palmer
It’s true.
00:52:46:43 – 00:53:03:39
Tony Rapino
So I’m not going to ask you that. What I want to know is what the likelihood is that you’ll ever actually write a novel. And then the second part of that is, if you were going to write a novel, I don’t suspect you’d know what it’s about. But do you know, like, what genre it would be in?
00:53:03:44 – 00:53:21:51
Tony Rapino
And, the third part is assuming the answer to any of that is no. Yeah. What then is your next creative outlet, that thing that you have been wanting to mess around with that you haven’t yet explored, some other creative just pursue it.
00:53:21:56 – 00:53:52:30
Agent Palmer
All right. So the first question is still probably not, just because I think I think I need, a eureka moment to really get kick started, for a novel of any of any or a book of any kind. Sure. Look, I think there’s a part of me that I. I am an editor on a published book on my shelf.
00:53:52:32 – 00:54:24:59
Agent Palmer
I will probably be an editor on another published book on my shelf or 2 or 3. And until Zapata fires me, you know, but I think we get along well, not just because we’re best friends, but I think our collaboration as editor and writer has been very good over the last decades. So as long as he keeps pumping out things, even if it’s every 20 years, I get a little bit of the victory of, like, hey, this is in my hand.
00:54:24:59 – 00:54:46:48
Agent Palmer
I helped make this. Yeah. Which is, you know, there’s a tangible nature that I’m not going to ever start releasing the podcast on CD. Like, I just, I just don’t I don’t see it happening. So I think that’s my tangible thing. However, if if I did get that one idea, whatever it is, that jump starts, hey, I, I have a book idea.
00:54:46:52 – 00:55:15:09
Agent Palmer
I’m I’m not opposed to it. I’m just not searching for it. Second, I feel like if I was going to handicap it a little bit, there’s probably a 75% chance it’s nonfiction. I don’t know what it’s about, but I feel like I’m I’m probably more inclined to do the research and tell a, factual thing than to just write, a fiction novel.
00:55:15:14 – 00:55:22:43
Agent Palmer
Okay, if I did write a fiction novel, it would kind of be like.
00:55:22:48 – 00:55:37:33
Agent Palmer
Like, I think it would be some kind of I don’t parodies too strong a word, but it would be, like, maybe my life through the looking glass, so to speak, where it’s not me, but it’s me.
00:55:37:38 – 00:56:01:23
Tony Rapino
Okay. So. Yeah. Okay, so I was I was wrong in my one of the reasons I was asking the genre is because I was at a bet with myself. Yep. I did think that you might say nonfiction just based on the blog. Yep. And, but my other, I thought, slightly stronger, feeling. I was thinking that you were going to say something like either science fiction or like the espionage kind of I.
00:56:01:28 – 00:56:26:00
Agent Palmer
I feel you know what? It’s funny. I really love reading the espionage. I don’t know that I could make it up. You know what I mean? Like it’s one of those like, you know, I just, I really like playing baseball. Those days are behind. I were watching baseball playing. It’s probably behind me. Right. Like I think there’s a, a level to it.
00:56:26:00 – 00:56:52:19
Agent Palmer
And I think, you know, I just know how to borrow and steal at this point as a writer. So I feel like it would be better if I was borrowing and stealing from myself than like, okay, James Bond, like, sure, let’s not steal or Archer, right? Like, probably one of the more, concurrent, pieces of spy fiction.
00:56:52:19 – 00:57:11:23
Agent Palmer
That’s not written down that I’ve consumed, but yeah, I, I, I’ve already and nobody’s seen it yet, but I’ve already dabbled in video, so I feel like that’s not an answer for you. As far as, like, some other medium.
00:57:11:28 – 00:57:13:18
Tony Rapino
Right. Because you’ve already kind of started there.
00:57:13:18 – 00:57:41:16
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, I’ve, I’ve shot some stuff and I do editing, and for my, you know, day gig, I create videos. And so I, I’m familiar with the editing process and the, the timeline process. And while it’s similar to editing audio, it’s still vastly different. But I have that skill set and I’ve played in that sandbox as far as something new, I mean, what it so.
00:57:41:21 – 00:57:57:56
Agent Palmer
Well, there is very much that, hey, you’re a blogger, when are you going to write a book? There is very much a new thing that I was not prepared for, which was, hey, you’re a podcaster, when are you going to do it live?
00:57:58:01 – 00:58:03:14
Tony Rapino
Okay. Yeah, I could see that a lot of podcasters are doing, like, their live, performances.
00:58:03:14 – 00:58:28:21
Agent Palmer
Live performances, live tapings, live tours, or exclusive tours where they’re not recording. And if you’re not, but I, I don’t know, you know, I’ve talked about this before. I feel like I’m less inclined to do I might do a I think you could convince me to do a panel, but to take this show live, you know, you and I are great example.
00:58:28:28 – 00:58:53:59
Agent Palmer
You and I have a connection off mic, so to speak, right? I still think that no matter how comfortable you and I are in front of the audience, the episode we just recorded is vastly different in front of an audience. Okay, because you cannot there’s not a human alive who can go back to like the very beginning of this episode.
00:58:54:03 – 00:59:33:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And have any reaction from the audience, not change something like, you know what, like you, I, you know, I, I’m bad at specifics, but like, let’s go with how we ended the episode talking about food. Any number of those food items could have elicited an ooh, an, a boo or a cheering from the audience. And it literally changes the rest of the discussion, because now we’re reacting to an audience that we know exists when we’re talking here, but not in a but they’re not part of this conversation.
00:59:33:19 – 00:59:58:21
Tony Rapino
Right? I mean, that’s assuming that we are in a open to an interactive audience experience in that way. I know some podcasts will do like more a more scripted sort of performance for the live shows, but something like this. Yeah, I would imagine that, especially if it actually were the two of us. I know that I have very hard time, not because I’m a teacher not reacting and playing off.
00:59:58:22 – 01:00:19:16
Agent Palmer
I mean, look, if I could host an evening with Tony, right? I think I could do that where it’s like, you know, I get to ask questions on behalf of the audience and then we can play with the audience. But that’s not the podcast anymore. Do you know what I mean? Like, and so there are there are elements that are different things.
01:00:19:16 – 01:00:30:52
Agent Palmer
They’re just not quite. It. But I will say it’s it’s not an answer as far as something new, but I am going to.
01:00:30:57 – 01:00:34:17
Tony Rapino
I am going to say maybe that I don’t accept your answer.
01:00:34:29 – 01:00:50:23
Agent Palmer
Well, then I would say I might dabble in something again. You know, there is a part of me, I’m going to put it out into the world, but I cannot guarantee anything. But I have been dabbling with music again.
01:00:50:28 – 01:00:51:24
Tony Rapino
Yeah.
01:00:51:29 – 01:00:53:05
Agent Palmer
And I think that’s the thing.
01:00:53:10 – 01:00:55:15
Tony Rapino
I thought that’s where you might go with it, because.
01:00:55:15 – 01:01:17:00
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it’s not. You know, there’s a part of me that would love to say that I have the inspiration for an album, and that would be fun. You know, I, I do love all the little toys, and I can, I can record this podcast and I know it’s not the same, but I could probably record an album if I wanted to.
01:01:17:04 – 01:01:50:50
Agent Palmer
I have two ideas musically for two different songs. That’s a start. Yeah, but I haven’t written lyrics in oh well over two decades. I haven’t finished a song in well over two decades. Okay. So the fact that I even committed two licks slash rhythms to, record is, kind of a start in that direction.
01:01:50:55 – 01:02:02:33
Agent Palmer
But I’m going to need a lot more in order to bring that to fruition. It’s like it’s it’s it’s it’s not the fire’s not out. Yeah, but it’s also not burning bright.
01:02:02:38 – 01:02:06:05
Tony Rapino
Have you, have you sat down and tried to write lyrics or.
01:02:06:10 – 01:02:21:40
Agent Palmer
No, I haven’t sat down to try to write lyrics, but I have sat down and tried to finish the song like, oh, I have these parts, how can I put it together? And I’m not going to say it wasn’t fruitful, but I didn’t actually finish it, so I don’t even have like a song I still write.
01:02:21:41 – 01:02:24:33
Tony Rapino
But how did you feel while you’re doing it?
01:02:24:38 – 01:03:06:25
Agent Palmer
Surprised that I was doing it. Okay. I mean, honestly, I look in the last few episodes, I’ve talked to musicians, and this was happening separate of those conversations. In fact, a lot of this happened before I even, you know, was talking to those people. But in talking to them, especially the musicians that were away from music and came back to it, it kind of just amplifies the message of, you can go back, you close this door.
01:03:06:30 – 01:03:17:41
Agent Palmer
And so I’ve opened it. I haven’t walked through it to the room, but the door is open and I can, you know, to fully flesh out the metaphor, the door is open and I can hear music.
01:03:17:46 – 01:03:48:06
Tony Rapino
Nice. Yeah, I yeah. You know, so with something like that and it kind of, I feel like it connects to what we were talking about earlier a little bit in your questions of, you know, how do I self motivate and how do I feel about, you know, moving from one project to another project? Yeah. If you’re approaching this as something that you don’t suspect will ever make money or necessarily be heard by a lot of people, then obviously the question is, are you enjoying it and or you getting something out of it?
01:03:48:11 – 01:03:51:40
Tony Rapino
And if the answer to that is even a little bit yes, then you should pursue it.
01:03:51:49 – 01:04:22:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, I guess the question is, and I don’t I don’t like this term, but I can’t come up with another term that’s better for it. How much of a Renaissance man do I want to be, right? Like I’m already doing writing and talking. And, you know, I dabble in video, right? Do you know, music is not that much of a degree of separation from any of the things I just mentioned, but it’s still a different beast.
01:04:22:16 – 01:04:38:20
Agent Palmer
And so there is a part of it which is like, well, but is this enough? Like, is it enough to just noodle on my couch and know that what I’ve recorded is, as far as it’ll go? Probably. But it also means, you know.
01:04:38:25 – 01:04:39:05
Tony Rapino
Well.
01:04:39:10 – 01:04:44:50
Agent Palmer
I’m looking. This was unexpected when it started. So at this moment, I’m not forcing it.
01:04:44:55 – 01:04:45:32
Tony Rapino
Okay?
01:04:45:36 – 01:05:17:21
Agent Palmer
There’s a chance that if I have a free couple hours, I could force myself with it, because that’s the other thing we talk about, like the forced 50 words, but sometimes we get 2000 words out of, you know, being a little bit forceful with ourselves. And so if we’re going to be forceful with ourselves, there’s nothing wrong with making an attempt to, to to go a little bit harder.
01:05:17:26 – 01:05:22:35
Tony Rapino
Sure. Yeah. And like, you know, not I didn’t mean to suggest that. Yeah.
01:05:22:35 – 01:05:31:12
Agent Palmer
Isn’t this enough, Tony? Come on. I put out all the blogs, I put out all the podcasts. How much more can I do? Yeah.
01:05:31:17 – 01:05:36:38
Tony Rapino
So the question was predicated on the notion of like, do you want to I don’t.
01:05:36:42 – 01:05:51:06
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I like I’m not going to be any more creatively fulfilled than I am right now. However, I was creatively surprised that the two things, the two riffs as they were, came along to begin with.
01:05:51:11 – 01:06:21:02
Tony Rapino
Nice. Yeah, I could see that. I mean, I certainly I just, I don’t know, it’s one of those things that, that I find myself because, you know, even earlier asking about like how, you know, I forget the phrasing of the question, but like the fact that I’m doing all these different creative things all in the same day, and I still, even in spite of that, there are creative outlets that I still kind of want to mess with.
01:06:21:02 – 01:06:39:42
Tony Rapino
Like I find myself gravitating to new hobbies and new, you know, not necessarily for anything other than just like the pursuit of that to, to to have fun, to enjoy it myself. I’m constantly like, I’ll see a video about something. I’ll be like, oh, I want to try that.
01:06:39:42 – 01:07:08:43
Agent Palmer
I mean, look, I, I will say this. There was a time when I seriously considered, video essays, but it was only ever make sense. It was only ever in theory, though, because I never came up with an essay. Right. Just like. Like that’s the thing, right? Like I talk about an album, potentially, and I have two parts to what could become songs.
01:07:08:48 – 01:07:32:14
Agent Palmer
I thought about video essays, but I never had an essay in mind, so there was never something concrete to get going with at that point. And it’s one of the weirdest things in the world. But when it comes to the podcast and the blog, I’m fairly open to like any suggestion, oh, you might want to write about this.
01:07:32:14 – 01:07:54:24
Agent Palmer
Oh, you should have that person on. But when it when I, when I think about a video essay. No that’s got to come from my shower. Like that’s got to come from that eureka moment when I’m completely unplugged. I don’t I wouldn’t not listen to ideas, but I feel like it’s gotta be something that comes from inside first, at least for the first one.
01:07:54:29 – 01:07:56:48
Tony Rapino
Okay, so a couple of things on that.
01:07:56:52 – 01:07:58:05
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:07:58:10 – 01:08:23:10
Tony Rapino
First, I just want to say video essays makes almost too much sense in the context of you writing a blog and hosting a podcast, a video, video, essays just make so much sense to me now that you say it out loud. Okay, and secondly, I guess I’m just wondering what’s the difference between a video essay and your blog posts and recording a blog a blog post?
01:08:23:10 – 01:09:04:27
Agent Palmer
So the idea would be I wouldn’t do the same thing, right? Like, I’ve always tried to keep the mediums separate. Okay, so, if I was going to, let’s say, write an editorial, I wouldn’t also put it on the blog. It would have to be something that would, would, would be better in video format. It would have to be something where like, I don’t know if I was talking about something being hot, it would be much better for the consumer of that to see a volcano of B-roll than of me to try and describe it as hot in the written form.
01:09:04:27 – 01:09:32:49
Agent Palmer
Right. And I think it’s, I need that first idea to really figure it out and see it for myself. But I mean, you know, it’s it’s not out of the realm. It’s just the spark hasn’t happened yet, but I know it’s there. It’s like. It’s like I have a bike. I just don’t write it. But I know it’s there and I can write it.
01:09:32:54 – 01:09:47:19
Tony Rapino
Fair enough. Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. Now that you say it, I, you know, I you need you want and crave a different area of exploration than what you explore on the blog. Well, for it to be on video, it doesn’t.
01:09:47:19 – 01:10:11:36
Agent Palmer
Even have to be a different area. It’s just, you know, people were like, well, you could, you know, when I was starting the podcast, people like, well, you could just read your blogs. And I was like, no, that’s there on the no. You can read them for yourself. And I think the idea of video essays is I could and I toyed with the idea of just like reading my own stuff, but it’s like, but you could just do that.
01:10:11:41 – 01:10:43:02
Agent Palmer
That’s not that’s not different. I want to use the different mediums in a different way. I could easily have turned record on video for, this podcast, and put that up as a video. I get to video edit as well, but this is an audio format and the blog is the text format, and the video format. While it will probably definitely have a script, it needs something else, and I don’t know what that is yet.
01:10:43:07 – 01:10:44:29
Tony Rapino
Right on.
01:10:44:33 – 01:10:54:24
Agent Palmer
So yeah, I mean, maybe it’s maybe it’s maybe it’s video essays, maybe it’s an album, maybe it’s a single, I just don’t know.
01:10:54:29 – 01:11:01:17
Tony Rapino
And the beauty is, it could be any of those things and all of those things, and they’re all possible.
01:11:01:22 – 01:11:04:42
Agent Palmer
Yes, that’s also scary. But yes.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).