Episode 51 features the return of Tristan Boyle the Anarchaeologist who is here to discuss UnArchaeology.
What it is, how it came to be, how it went, and what has been learned throughout all of the associated processes.
Throughout the conversation, we dig in to:
- What is UnArchaeology?
- Fragmentation
- Asking the internet for help
- Accessibility
- Digital Conferences
- Digital Event Management
- Is archaeology priviledged
- Diversity issues and solutins
- Balanced Panels
- Creativity and Committees
- Co-participation
- Unifinished projects
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
The Modern Myth with Tristan Boyle
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Being Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:23:04
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com a few new and new to me. Things I’ve been consuming. Rocket man tells the story of astronaut Pete Conrad, a true original and my mother is already excitedly expecting her return appearance. This is The Palmer Files episode 51 with the return of Tristan, the anarcheologist. We talk about what Unarcheology is and how it came to be.
00:00:23:06 – 00:01:02:42
Agent Palmer
Plus, the idea of seeding ideas and letting others help show them, throwing convention out the window and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:02:47 – 00:01:22:46
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 51st episode is a returning guest and friend of the podcast, Tristan Boyle, known as the. An archeologist to some, co-founder of the Archeology Podcast Network. To others, and recently as one of the minds behind Unarcheology. What is that?
00:01:22:52 – 00:01:45:35
Agent Palmer
What is Unarcheology, you ask? It’s what I ask Tristan, so I’ll let him explain during the episode. But you know that this episode isn’t just about one thing they rarely ever are. It is about an archeology, of course, but it’s about process. It’s about sharing, and it’s about being open to putting things out into the universe and seeing what happens.
00:01:45:40 – 00:02:17:40
Agent Palmer
Hopefully Tristan story will inspire and empower you now. Before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest Tristan at an archeologist. That’s an archeologist on archeology at on archeology. And this show at the Palmer Files for all things Tristan, you can visit the archeology podcast network.com, which is where you can find his show Modern Myth with Tristan.
00:02:17:51 – 00:02:42:37
Agent Palmer
And for all things on archeology, you can visit on archeology.org. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember you’re home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com. So without further ado, let’s dig in to UN archeology and see what we find.
00:02:42:42 – 00:02:48:27
Agent Palmer
Tristan. We’ll start out very simple. What is under archeology?
00:02:48:34 – 00:03:16:09
Tristan Boyle
We’ll take everything that you know about archeology and unearthed. I think I think it’s better to put it like this. I think it was. It’s a it’s a kind of a reaction to, like, how I see archeology developing, especially during the pandemic. So I’ve been part of projects where we’ve gone to archeology conferences and started filming archeology conferences.
00:03:16:11 – 00:03:41:04
Tristan Boyle
That’s with like, somebody else. And I noticed that like, while, like tech conferences and like other types of conferences, they would like, they’ve been livestreaming their conferences for years. They’ve had media there. They have people covering it. It’s there’s, you know, there’s a buzz about it. But when it came to like archeology and heritage conferences, it was a bit stuffy.
00:03:41:05 – 00:04:01:47
Tristan Boyle
It was a bit kind of like, oh, yeah, I’ve got a PowerPoint, but I’ve just got some pictures up here, you know? You know, it was very kind of like lay back. And I thought, right now this is all moving online. We’re actually losing some of that kind of interaction with the audience. So we’re losing that kind of sense of conference.
00:04:01:47 – 00:04:25:59
Tristan Boyle
And it’s just turning into these kind of like monologues. So what way could we do different? How could we turn this on its head? And that’s where I had this, like, little spark of an idea of I want to do something different. And I think I know what I need to do, but, I’m going to see if I can get a couple of other people on board and see what happens.
00:04:26:04 – 00:04:50:17
Tristan Boyle
So I’m sitting down with a friend of mine who I. Who like a guy called Gavin, and I said, look, I want to do these themes about archeology. And so I wanted to kind of examine. Right. Why is it that why does it feel that, like in archeology, people seem fragmented. Everybody’s kind of doing their own thing.
00:04:50:22 – 00:05:15:53
Tristan Boyle
Everybody’s an island, and nobody seems to be joining up in a huge way in order to create better change for everybody. It’s all like everybody’s doing their own little thing. You’ve got like the Council for British Archeology, you’ve got the certified, the Chartered Institute for Heal Logistics, you’ve got the Diggers Forum, you’ve got like all these interest groups, but they don’t it doesn’t feel that the link up.
00:05:15:58 – 00:05:46:56
Tristan Boyle
So my first critique was how do we link everything up. And the second thing was how do we person to person, archeologist, archeologist help each other out without waiting for these fragmented groups to step in? And those those pieces were the start and the base ingredients for what an archeology would become. But I had no idea how it would turn out.
00:05:47:01 – 00:05:56:13
Tristan Boyle
And honestly, without the amazing people I met along the way and what it’s become nigh. I couldn’t have achieved it alone.
00:05:56:27 – 00:06:20:11
Agent Palmer
So where? First of all, where along the process do you get the name UN archeology? Because from a sheer naming standpoint, like it was because because you, I, you know, full disclosure, I was a little bit behind the scenes at one point. Slowly but surely, like here and there and the name, like you were like, hey, you want to help out with this thing?
00:06:20:15 – 00:06:32:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah. What’s it on archeology like? Amazing. Like an amazing name, because. And I know you so like the. It’s possible that this name has been, like, sitting there somewhere for you for a while.
00:06:32:16 – 00:07:01:44
Tristan Boyle
So I, I won’t claim to. I won’t claim the name. But I will say that one of the coolest things that I, back when I was, a young archeologist, when I was accidentally led astray during my degree program to become an archeologist, I remember hearing of really cool thing, called an uncon reference, now an unconference.
00:07:01:49 – 00:07:28:12
Tristan Boyle
It’s really cool. Basically, it was a bunch of punk archeologists, self-styled punk archeologists who, you know, did beat poems as, as like, instead of, like, speeches. They did presentation as rock songs, and it was all done by themselves. It was DIY and punk AF, so it was really cool. And that stuck with me, you know?
00:07:28:24 – 00:07:31:45
Agent Palmer
Now, did you ever get to attend one of these or.
00:07:31:47 – 00:07:53:03
Tristan Boyle
Well, you see, the thing is, this is the thing I know two of the punk archeologists who were involved in it, and I was like, when’s this happening again? Man, we just wanted to do it one time, and that was that, you know, like it was it was an then. But that adds to the the kind of transient property that it has.
00:07:53:08 – 00:08:01:46
Tristan Boyle
It’s cool because it wasn’t this huge planned grant narrative. It was the like, we need to do this. Okay, let’s do it.
00:08:01:51 – 00:08:02:59
Agent Palmer
Bam! Okay.
00:08:03:03 – 00:08:30:37
Tristan Boyle
And that energy excited me. That really kind of was like, oh, I like that kind of, we need to do this. Let’s go and do it. Let’s not plan ahead. Like do all this intricate planning, let’s go and do something. But part of me was like, right, I don’t I don’t know how to exactly do this right. So here I am planning out these themes.
00:08:30:37 – 00:08:45:47
Tristan Boyle
You know, the fragmentation theme and the let’s do it ourselves theme. Right. And so I think over about a month, I kind of formulated the kind of questions under these themes that I think that the panel should answer.
00:08:45:56 – 00:08:47:14
Agent Palmer
Okay. Right. Yeah.
00:08:47:19 – 00:09:02:40
Tristan Boyle
And now I’ve got that and I’m going to go to social media. I’m going to get a couple of people to help me, like, you know, kind of like run the whole thing. But in my head at this point, I’m thinking I’m going to have to present, I’m going to have to write stuff, I’m going to have to moderate.
00:09:02:40 – 00:09:31:13
Tristan Boyle
I’m going to have to make sure the tech is okay. You know, like I’m I don’t really expect a lot from the people I’m reaching out to, but I put it everywhere. And then suddenly it’s like, bing bing bing bing bing bing bing bing my oh wow. There’s there’s a lot of people here. Right. Let’s all get into a WhatsApp group, you know, and so I’m putting everybody in a WhatsApp group and I’m like, okay, this is the kind of things we want to do.
00:09:31:13 – 00:10:02:35
Tristan Boyle
And then the first meeting and holy moly, it was it was something else. It was I could I could sense this kind of like the this something happening. But it was difficult because, I mean, when you go do projects like this, you expect somebody to be in charge and somebody to be the leader, and there’s somebody to be the one who makes the final call and everything.
00:10:02:40 – 00:10:35:02
Tristan Boyle
And I didn’t necessarily want to take that on, but I knew being the progenitor of the original idea, I would almost fall to me. But at each point I kind of said, look, I don’t want to be the person barking orders. What do you think? And the only thing that I stuck to was, no, we don’t we don’t need to be professional by the normal standards.
00:10:35:07 – 00:11:05:54
Tristan Boyle
We don’t need to do things by the books like that you would normally expect. We have the space, the safe space here to actually twist things and change things and, you know, undermine things and quickly, you know, people got on board and I think it took a while for some people to actually get the head space of like, oh, well, if we do that, it’s it’s not really what people do at archeology conferences.
00:11:05:59 – 00:11:35:48
Tristan Boyle
And it took a while point. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Whatever we do archeology conferences, let’s do the opposite. And it was you know, and like so there’s this slowly moving kind of train like like choo choo kind of kind of going along. And I’m thinking like, right. Well, one of the biggest problems with archeology conferences is accessibility. But like, I’m fortunate, I like I don’t have the background where I know a lot about accessibility.
00:11:35:48 – 00:12:18:42
Tristan Boyle
Like I don’t have that lived experience and I don’t I don’t necessarily know what to look for. So I kind of put it, I’d say if anybody, if anybody particularly knows about accessibility, I’d be really interested to talk to you. Could you tell us something behind the scenes? And, and yeah, we we actually got somebody, who was, who we we’ve been interested in inviting them in for a panel position, which they ended up doing as well, but we kind of asked them, oh, I know you’re doing a panel thing, but would you mind kind of like telling us a little bit about accessibility?
00:12:18:47 – 00:12:44:32
Tristan Boyle
And then they came to the committee meetings, and then they were part of the committee and irreplaceable part of the committee. As with everybody, committee members. So I’ll, I’ll have to start putting names in here. So, when we started out, we had Kate, Claire, Naomi. I’m going to get really embarrassed and forget somebody.
00:12:44:37 – 00:12:49:50
Tristan Boyle
And Miller was the one who came on for the, accessibility stuff.
00:12:49:50 – 00:13:15:26
Agent Palmer
Now it’s this, like, what’s a timeline here for you? And I’m not not specifics, but, like, obviously, you have the idea to start putting the committee together. Because to me. Right. I’m. I’m just. I’m just a guy who likes you, like, I, you know, and and to me, it felt like whatever you did behind the scenes, by the time it started being committed.
00:13:15:27 – 00:13:32:47
Agent Palmer
Right? It was like, okay, we’ve got a thing and we’re going to do it. And it felt like I talked to you or had a conversation with you on Twitter or something. And it was like, I have this idea. And then like two months later was like, we have a date and we’re going to do this in six months or eight months or whatever.
00:13:32:50 – 00:13:39:19
Agent Palmer
Like it felt like such a massive, like, why wait?
00:13:39:24 – 00:14:13:26
Tristan Boyle
I think, well, what happened to was very quickly, with the first couple of meetings, it really accelerate it like it went really fast. And then, what happened was like, I think it was trying to think it was definitely. Kate basically came on, Kate, who was one of the original people who got in touch with me, she started making a website and.
00:14:13:30 – 00:14:37:45
Tristan Boyle
Yeah, of her own back, like, this is this is what this is what the amazing thing about the committee was that, like, we had general goals that we wanted to achieve. So we wanted, like a, like a a logo. Right? We needed a logo. We need description. We probably needed to have a look at maybe getting a website and like I was I do the archeology Podcast Network.
00:14:37:45 – 00:14:57:29
Tristan Boyle
So there was an idea at one point to kind of just put an extra page on that for that. And then it kind of became this thing where people were like, okay, oh, I know we need to that get that done. Okay, let’s I’ll take that. And then they come back the next meeting and I’m like, oh my God, this is amazing.
00:14:57:34 – 00:15:27:06
Tristan Boyle
You put all this work in. I’m just like, Holy moly. Although I must say, I’ll draw back a wee bit. Okay. There was not really rules that people had been assigned in the committee, so I put it as, I kind of said, look, I need some people to help me moderate the Twitch chat, YouTube chat, and I need some people to help me kind of work in the background.
00:15:27:10 – 00:15:48:33
Tristan Boyle
And, I think at the first mediates said, look, I need somebody to liaise with the, the panelists. And Kate said she would do that, but these are regional jobs. And I remember Naomi was going to be Naomi Hughes, who was, ended up doing the live document stuff. I will get to the live doc very soon.
00:15:48:38 – 00:16:17:16
Tristan Boyle
But she, she was started as just a moderator, and her final role was completely different. The reason is that what happened was, the goals became apparent. You know, what we needed to do. And instead of me saying, you do this, you do that. People were picking up what they needed and what they could do, and I thought that was really amazing.
00:16:17:21 – 00:16:41:23
Tristan Boyle
I think a lot of people, everybody kind of learned a lot, you know, from what was kind of like evolving. So from the by the first or second committee meeting, we’d got onto the page that like, we needed to do a lot of the writing for like what was happening. And then it was decided, oh, we need somewhere to put all this writing.
00:16:41:28 – 00:17:22:14
Tristan Boyle
And then the website started appearing. We need graphics for the website. And so Clare, who’s like, I think she’s a second year student, she was doing all our like, graphic stuff for us because she’s from a kind of like marketing background, but she’s just like, oh, I can do this. And like, this is this is the amazing thing is that all these people, even though, like, I put it out to, like, a lot of just archeology groups, we, we got all these people in who had all these amazing talents and skills, and in a week or in two weeks, they were just popping up with this amazing stuff.
00:17:22:19 – 00:17:24:05
Tristan Boyle
It was almost too good to be true.
00:17:24:07 – 00:17:58:53
Agent Palmer
Now, real quick, it’s to take one step backwards. It was on Twitch and YouTube, but when do you decide those are the platforms that this is and that this is going to be fully digital? You know, because obviously there are other platforms, especially when we talk about, and I don’t know if people are familiar with this, but when you’re talking about online conferences, Twitch and YouTube are great public platforms, but there are private platforms that exist or or not.
00:17:58:53 – 00:18:05:22
Agent Palmer
So public platforms that you can pay for. So how do you decide these are the platforms we’re going to use?
00:18:05:27 – 00:18:30:49
Tristan Boyle
Well, when I put the call for participants originally through and I had the idea that’s when I had kind of put into the text of that call, oh, we’re going to do YouTube and Twitch right. But it was kind of thought like we had a guy come in Jeevan, who was going to be doing some of the moderating as well, for the Twitch platform.
00:18:30:53 – 00:18:58:21
Tristan Boyle
And it was kind of decided that we would try and get everything else organized first, and then we would decide on our platforms. One of the things that we realized in terms of accessibility, it was raised by Miller was, that we needed to have a way of having live captioning on what we’re doing because accessibility wise, we wanted to set the gold standard for what should be done.
00:18:58:33 – 00:19:33:20
Tristan Boyle
Sure. So, so we were looking at like, and there were a number of different options, you know, we were looking at like, I think there was banana meta. Was able to do it. And obviously YouTube auto generates captions and zoom can be done to do it. And there was a lot of question that’s going on. But I think for the most part, when I, when I first put out the call for participants I was looking for, I would launch that in August and I was looking to do the conference in November.
00:19:33:24 – 00:20:08:16
Tristan Boyle
However, it got very it was not very, far on before we realized we couldn’t do it in November. So instead we said, right, we need to do better. We can go next year to do it instead. And that’s when we had the breathing space to actually start building stuff that was happening. Because at that point, we hadn’t even decided how the live document would be done.
00:20:08:21 – 00:20:32:38
Agent Palmer
So let’s fast forward the event is about to happen. I think maybe two weeks before there was, a test, of the of the technology, which, you know, shout out to you guys for doing it publicly because there are some people that are like, now we’re going to do this is privately is possible, but you don’t learn anything that way.
00:20:32:43 – 00:20:41:18
Agent Palmer
So I showed up for your, 90 minute Twitch stream or whatever it was. It was testing things out, and.
00:20:41:23 – 00:20:43:50
Tristan Boyle
That was good. It was good. It was a good test, you.
00:20:43:50 – 00:21:03:41
Agent Palmer
Know, it was a great test. But then, you know, two weeks later, I, you know, I, I woke up a little bit early because you were in, you know, I crossed the Atlantic and I, you know, I spent a couple, you know, a bunch of hours hanging out with you guys. And it was fun to be in the chat.
00:21:03:46 – 00:21:38:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You know, and, you know, I’ll be honest, I was bouncing around between both platforms because I was curious. But twitch is a lot easier for me. I just throw that I had you on the big screen because. Why not? And, yeah, it. I will tell you, as someone who’s not an archeologist, it was intriguing and entertaining and educating from a standpoint of just like, well, you know, I’ve talked to you, I’ve talked to Chris like, I, I know of archeology.
00:21:38:07 – 00:22:03:25
Agent Palmer
But you, you open my eyes to like the and the discussions opened my eyes. So for you, it’s the day all of this stuff has been. You’ve you’ve you’ve established a team. All of these people, all of these moving pieces. It’s happening. Tristan, what’s it like when you wake up that morning and it’s like it’s happening today?
00:22:03:30 – 00:22:25:10
Tristan Boyle
Do you know, we were messaging because we we ended up using discord as our kind of organizing platform. We moved away from WhatsApp. And I think one of the things that we kind of worried about was just like, everything going wrong, you know what I mean? Like, but we checked in nice and early and everyone was there.
00:22:25:10 – 00:22:49:42
Tristan Boyle
Everything’s fine live. So the idea of just briefly the live document, it was the idea that we had like a Google, I can’t even remember what it’s called. My, it’s like a Google Jamboard that was available for the audience to kind of, like, write down their ideas and thoughts during the panel so that, like, they have a chance to give their voice as well.
00:22:49:46 – 00:23:19:38
Tristan Boyle
And that was meant to be kind of like simulating the audience in the room. And that was going live first. And so we were kind of like, there was always a concern about trolls like, especially during the pandemic. You’ve heard of Zoombombing before, haven’t you? Yeah. So, like people coming in and you know, and unfortunately, there have been several instances of actually like, at a couple of heritage conferences.
00:23:19:43 – 00:23:47:58
Tristan Boyle
One was like quite violent on the Semitic, kind of like, stuff flashed on the screen. And, you know, there were a lot of unsavory things happening, and we were kind of very conscious that we couldn’t use zoom, because we wanted to take extra steps to make sure it wasn’t even possible. But obviously, having this live document that everybody could write on that was open to abuse.
00:23:47:58 – 00:24:09:24
Tristan Boyle
So we were kind of like on our toes about whether, you know, that would happen. We had the, but this is the thing we had. One of our key things was, we need to be in control. And if anything does happen, we can press the button to stop it, you know? Yeah. And we were thinking about, okay, if this happens, what?
00:24:09:28 – 00:24:39:58
Tristan Boyle
What happens then? And, you know, we weren’t just kind of like transplanting the physical, conference onto a digital space. We’re actually thinking about, like, well, what are the restraints of the digital space and how do we make, adjustments for that? And that’s a really, really important kind of like part of the the story as well is because it’s easy enough to kind of say, right, we’ll just do a digital conference.
00:24:39:58 – 00:25:08:18
Tristan Boyle
But like, I think it’s really, really important to actually understand why you’re creating it. So there I am on the computer. But I think 9 a.m. in the morning and I’m kind of looking at the messages and thinking, right, what’s what I need to do? And I remember seeing it’s like, well, you just need to get ready for for your opening speech.
00:25:08:23 – 00:25:35:58
Tristan Boyle
I think one of the other things about our archeology that I need to make really clear is that, like, archeology is very kind of, like, privileged. And I mean that in a really, really, like, I’m trying to be really honest about it because unfortunately, like archeology doesn’t seem to have the diversity, that even matches the normal population.
00:25:36:03 – 00:26:11:00
Tristan Boyle
And I think there’s a number of reasons why that is. And a lot is it’s to do with the kind of environment that people are in, you know, the kind of opportunities that are there and the barriers. And so we actually, at one point with our panels, felt that we needed more people from different backgrounds, to adequately like provide the the range of viewpoints and perspectives that we were trying to change.
00:26:11:05 – 00:26:39:55
Tristan Boyle
I’ve actually been at an archeology, conference, and I mean, no joke, it was about the future of the, of archeology in terms of like employment in terms of, like, kind of development. And it was a model and this was back in like 2017, like it was an all male panel of eight people, eight people.
00:26:39:55 – 00:27:20:35
Tristan Boyle
It’s not like like I mean somebody I don’t think you should make any excuses, but for eight people and you couldn’t find one woman to talk, you know, that happens a lot. That’s not, that’s not a rare thing. And so we wanted to make sure that our panels were balanced in lots different ways. And there was actually even a discussion whether and I completely understand this, whether I should be even introducing it, you know, because someone like me, a, like a white man who in archeology, with a beard, with love, loves lots of great jumpers.
00:27:20:40 – 00:27:48:21
Tristan Boyle
No, they’re not great. That’s jumpers. I mean, that’s the the common theme of what you think when you think of an archeologist. But at the same time, you know, I had written, right, like what I thought the introduction should be. And it was decided to committee that like, we would take that, because I think, I think it’s important to show the solid parity there.
00:27:48:25 – 00:28:23:39
Tristan Boyle
I feel like on archeology, May has started as something from me, but I could never have created by myself what the event actually went like. I remember it was by 10 to 11 and we were all in, an a group chat, chatting to each other in discord, in a room. Everybody’s getting ready. The panelists are getting ready, because what we eventually did was we launched it through Google Meet, because they did active live captions, for each person.
00:28:23:44 – 00:28:53:56
Tristan Boyle
So it was really easy. And, yeah, I remember being 10 to 11 and, you know, the live stream is going up and I was getting ready for my speech. And I remember Miller counting me in, and I’m just like, oh, it’s too late to back out nine. And it’s like I’m getting signals from Miller with, like, he’s got his webcam on and he’s like, five for 3 to 1.
00:28:53:56 – 00:29:16:59
Tristan Boyle
And then it’s like silently. And I’m like, okay, I’m going to launch in straight at one, and I’m hoping I don’t have to wait a couple of seconds. But looking back at the VOD, it was perfect. And I remember, you know, looking into the camera and just like, you know, reading out this thing and just. And in the back of my mind, I’m like, holy, holy moly.
00:29:16:59 – 00:29:39:37
Tristan Boyle
Like, it’s happening. It’s here. Oh my God. Right. Don’t rush. Don’t rush this and say it all. Say it all. And I remember finishing the last line and smiling and being like, I hope it’s not one of those, you know, awkward TV moments where the presenter just has to stand and smile. But it came out really, really well at the end.
00:29:39:42 – 00:29:54:51
Tristan Boyle
And then it was into the first, the first panel and I was immediately on the charts just to be like, right, let’s see what happens. And that’s, that’s where we started off the day was with something else.
00:29:54:56 – 00:30:15:58
Agent Palmer
And we’re on the other side of it now, obviously, looking back, you’ve had time to process what has happened. So I want to ask two questions. One, we bring it to a close and I understand there’s still work to be done at that point. But the event comes to a close and there’s work to be done.
00:30:15:58 – 00:30:27:00
Agent Palmer
But the events over and it’s happened. Like, what is your initial reaction for like, we did it not we’re doing it like you had in the morning, but like.
00:30:27:05 – 00:30:27:21
Tristan Boyle
We.
00:30:27:21 – 00:30:41:36
Agent Palmer
Did it more like, obviously there’s a lot there’s post things to do. I get that. But yeah, like mission accomplished. We started it, we did it, we finished it. It’s done. Like what’s your initial reaction there?
00:30:41:41 – 00:31:14:34
Tristan Boyle
I like I, I’m like I felt so elated and so proud of the whole committee. It was it was really such, it’s such a combined community effort. It was really something where, I mean, my co organizers and yeah, we all had a part to play and everybody did an amazing job. I was just so I am still to this day so proud of everybody putting in their all.
00:31:14:39 – 00:31:48:18
Tristan Boyle
We had Tash and Phoenix, who were our facilitators, like leading the panels and helping the panels do their stuff. We had like, I think Alessia and Bianca like doing the moderation, and we just had and I think there was Lauren as well, who is on the live document. And we had so many amazing people. Nathalia, I should definitely mention her and they just so many amazing people working like with every little bit.
00:31:48:18 – 00:32:23:38
Tristan Boyle
And it was just it was great. I mean, we, we had the discord open for like, we had a special channel which was urgent. You know, please, please respond. And that was for if anything happened. And then there was organizers chat and everything. It was it was so good. And like my brother, who’s a musician, he actually did the, lunchtime break, because I’d never been to an archeology conference where they had music at lunchtime, and I thought it was a it was something that needs to happen, you know, sure.
00:32:23:38 – 00:32:35:18
Agent Palmer
I mean, there needs to be something to break it up. And you’re also I mean, this is the other thing. You’re you’re doing the UN archeology thing. So if it doesn’t happen at the other places, it has to happen here.
00:32:35:23 – 00:33:00:30
Tristan Boyle
I was I came away from it be feeling so proud and elated. And I thought it was just it was just amazing to see the spark of an idea and then how much developed beyond what I could have ever imagined. It was. It was really something, and I, I kind of felt like this team, like I feel like that was the feeling after it with the whole team.
00:33:00:30 – 00:33:37:37
Tristan Boyle
Like we could do anything like it doesn’t stop here. And I feel like that essentially captured that energy of like, and it’s still to this as we’re going forward. It doesn’t end here. You know, I think everybody has their own little ideas of what they want on archeology to mean. And I think one of the great things is that it is such a flexible term, because I feel like it represents something like dif fundamentally different to what currently exists in the heritage sector.
00:33:37:42 – 00:34:14:20
Tristan Boyle
But it goes beyond that because I think where we are in society, I feel like there’s a lot of times where people feel that they can’t make a difference and they feel kind of isolated and alone. And I think what this demonstrates in a very specific and tiny way is that people coming together to achieve something, they don’t need a big company, they don’t need a big organization, and they don’t need a all need to have, individually, all these skills.
00:34:14:24 – 00:34:24:42
Tristan Boyle
And they can actually work with other people and develop skills together in order to achieve something. And that, for me is the real powerful takeaway.
00:34:24:47 – 00:35:00:43
Agent Palmer
And obviously we are now further removed from that moment. And the transcripts have come out. We talked about that accessibility, that that was a huge part, especially, you know, the the VODs are going up here and there. Videos on demand for you who aren’t and the lingo. And so, you know, not to put it to too fine a point on it, but is there going to be a 2.0 like, because obviously what you’ve established and the goals that you have set forth, they’re not one and done things.
00:35:00:55 – 00:35:10:47
Agent Palmer
They’re ongoing conversations and they’re fluid conversations because they change based on things that happen all the time.
00:35:10:52 – 00:35:28:03
Tristan Boyle
I think I’ll not speak for everybody on the committee, but I think for the most part, I think we all see some form of a another conference happening next year. But I think there’s been a lot of talk about, well, what do we want to do other than that.
00:35:28:03 – 00:35:48:26
Agent Palmer
Like what do you learn? I mean, you’ve done it, right. So it’s what have you learned? What can you do differently? You did it in the you did it. I want to say in the middle, not you did it during a global pandemic, give or take. Right. So I feel like, you know, you have the ability if you go next year to do.
00:35:48:31 – 00:36:01:14
Agent Palmer
I mean, obviously the online component is important for accessibility, but yeah, you can go to a shared space if you want, like there are lots of things that you can build off of this from.
00:36:01:19 – 00:36:28:46
Tristan Boyle
I think it’s important to realize that the the way it was done this year is definitely in response to and within the scope of a pandemic. And I think really going forward, it won’t be up to any individual person within the committee to say this is what has to happen, but rather that is part of the discussions that we all have and agree together.
00:36:28:46 – 00:36:58:25
Tristan Boyle
You know, I think one of the biggest things I’ve learned from being part of this decision process is to kind of like let go of ideas and kind of like, you know, throw an idea in and see what other people think about it, and they put their own spin on it. I think I’ve definitely grown a lot more detached from thinking that I have all the answers.
00:36:58:30 – 00:37:34:59
Tristan Boyle
For me, I now think of the projects that I do more in terms of principles and goals, because I feel like if you get really hung up on the specifics, that something has to be done by you, lose a sense of, cool participation that actually makes it better. So I think, I think what we’re actually discussing in the moment is precisely what you’ve pointed out is we are learning from this kind of process and we’re trying to decide what the best thing is going forward.
00:37:35:03 – 00:37:55:12
Tristan Boyle
Because I feel like it’s almost like we’ve we’ve tackled conferences. What else can we tackle by, you know, I’m, you know, like, I mean, journals. I don’t know if, you know, by academic journals in general, but they’re literally like an extortion racket. It’s ridiculous. Like you’re. Yeah. Sorry.
00:37:55:15 – 00:38:01:05
Agent Palmer
Let me ask this question. Yeah. Is the committee that you’ve put together.
00:38:01:10 – 00:38:01:46
Tristan Boyle
00:38:03:17 – 00:38:30:43
Agent Palmer
And I guess I’m asking you this question more than anything specific, like just personally, is this the most diverse or organization you’ve ever been a part? I mean, obviously you put it together with that in mind. And I think that that needs to happen a little bit more often not. We’re putting together and I think no, you but, but and, and have you learned more like than than have you know because of it.
00:38:30:48 – 00:39:03:46
Tristan Boyle
I think well what’s been really good. Well I made no I like I didn’t use any euphemisms in the call for participants. I specifically said I’m looking for people from like diverse backgrounds. And I think it maybe it helps that I’m like younger and I have an archeologist and my Twitter handle, but like, the kind of people that are willing to talk to me are not necessarily the people who are making a name for themselves in the upper echelons.
00:39:03:46 – 00:39:31:31
Tristan Boyle
You know, like I feel like I tried to make come across that I wanted lots of people from different backgrounds, and that’s who I got. It is definitely one of the most diverse committees that I’ve ever sat on. It’s probably one of the most diverse projects I’ve ever been a part of. And I definitely, definitely, definitely feel that I have seen.
00:39:31:33 – 00:39:55:19
Tristan Boyle
It’s almost not like it’s not just for my benefit. I think it’s actually been of benefit to the project as a whole. To have that like, there are some things here that I don’t think I could have ever done myself. And I think I owe that to, you know, people’s different backgrounds, their, you know, and their skills.
00:39:55:19 – 00:40:29:38
Tristan Boyle
And so like, I think, that, you know, I’ve been so lucky to be a part of this, but it’s not like it’s been personally so rewarding to me. It’s more that, like, I feel privileged to have been a part of this, you know, to be able to put my little $0.02 in at some points. And I think that for me has been really good to kind of step back, step away from kind of like thing being like, right.
00:40:29:38 – 00:40:46:51
Tristan Boyle
Well, I think it should be this I think it should be that. And instead saying, right, well, I think this is kind of where we’re going. What’s the best way to do that? So there’s been a lot of learning for me and it’s been really, really good. Particularly because I’ve let go of stuff, you know.
00:40:46:55 – 00:41:14:20
Agent Palmer
Now, I, I asked this question knowing fully, well, it’s a loaded question, but how many, how many other ideas? How have you do you now have, for other projects you want to do? Because I feel like you start something like this and it is a success, and you do have this committee and you can’t help but think like, what else can I do?
00:41:14:24 – 00:41:17:08
Agent Palmer
00:41:17:13 – 00:41:39:39
Tristan Boyle
It’s a it’s a daily struggle, just like it really is. Like I am so bad at it. And it’s. And the worst thing is I have a dog now and I go for walks, the dog. And that is time for me to think. And that’s a very dangerous thing because if I start thinking about something, you know, that’s me.
00:41:39:39 – 00:41:58:31
Tristan Boyle
Like I’m done. Like, stick a fork in me. I’m. I’m cooked. Because then that becomes an idea. There are so many dead projects in my Google Drive right now. It is embarrassing, like I have. I have, you know what? It looks like.
00:41:58:36 – 00:42:17:44
Agent Palmer
We could go. We could go tete a tete at this because I. I can’t tell you how many unfinished projects, blog posts, podcast ideas, and other general creative things that are in my Google Drive. In fact, my Google Drive is mostly unfinished works.
00:42:17:49 – 00:42:26:11
Tristan Boyle
But you see, this is the UN archeology could have been one of those projects for me. Easily.
00:42:26:11 – 00:42:35:02
Agent Palmer
Okay, so what is stopping you from reaching out on one of the next ones?
00:42:35:07 – 00:43:14:05
Tristan Boyle
I think I think maybe because, archeology was specifically meant to be something bigger than just me, you know, like, I feel like when it comes to the podcasts and some of the other personal projects, it’s very me centric. But I really wanted on archeology to be more than just me. I actually specifically focused it away from myself, and the more I did it, the more value it became, because it could then be reaching a wider audience of different people.
00:43:14:10 – 00:43:37:54
Tristan Boyle
Whereas the projects I have, you know, their ideas that I thought were really good ideas in my head. But I’ve hit a I’ve had a block with them, you know, like, I mean, I’d love to. I’ve got a couple of them that are kind of creative writing, kind of like things. And I’ve always wanted to kind of do a fiction podcast.
00:43:37:54 – 00:43:41:26
Tristan Boyle
I think that would be really cool. But. Well, you just.
00:43:41:30 – 00:43:43:14
Agent Palmer
You’ve we’ve done one before.
00:43:43:29 – 00:44:04:37
Tristan Boyle
Well, us technically we we actually have done one before and I mean, like with, you know, the sound effects and everything. And I kind of like, I wish, I wish I had the, the way of doing it without you know, without a narrator with just like an actual, like, radio play. I think that would be really cool.
00:44:04:42 – 00:44:24:09
Tristan Boyle
I’ve got a couple of ideas. But it’s just like trying to make that work, because when I’m writing it, it’s like, oh, okay, I know this story is. And then I’ll have an idea popped into my head like, well, how do you do the sound effects for that? I’m like, oh God, I don’t know. Right. Let me go and look that up.
00:44:24:11 – 00:44:25:36
Tristan Boyle
Yeah, but how I come back.
00:44:25:41 – 00:44:45:38
Agent Palmer
But, but but now. Right. You’ve done an archeology and you know, you know, I think I think in your heart of hearts, you know, that if you put a script like this together, you have me. You have there are other people you can reach out to. You know, it’s not going to be you in a room doing a solo radio play.
00:44:45:53 – 00:45:15:30
Agent Palmer
So, like, why not take this and look, it’s still you. But like, you know, it’s not going to be solely you like, you know, solo, you take what you’ve learned from on archeology and maybe it’s not on such a grand community scale. Granted. But but you know that you have help and let let that I let that be somebody else’s problem or collaboration to figure out how to do that sound effect and just keep going.
00:45:15:35 – 00:45:45:57
Tristan Boyle
I think, I think that is something I am learning and having to learn is this kind of thing. I just I sometimes feel like I like, say you were making a cake with somebody, right? And you’re kind of like putting the putting ever all the wet ingredients together in a bowl. Like sometimes you want to present at least the you want the person to decorate the cake, but you you want to have at least done all the work to show your the effort you’ve put in in actually baking the cake, you know what I mean?
00:45:46:02 – 00:46:16:12
Tristan Boyle
And I feel like sometimes my projects, I’m still adding eggs and I’m like, in some ways they’re with their icing, you know, and yeah, maybe they maybe they don’t. Maybe they, they maybe they never wanted to do the icing. Maybe they wanted actually way out some of the ingredients. That’s cool. But like it’s, it’s one of these things where it’s like sometimes I’m over organized and sometimes I’m under organized and it’s very, very kind of like sporadic.
00:46:16:20 – 00:46:38:19
Agent Palmer
It’s chaos. It’s because I’m the same way. Like there are times when I will show up fully prepared for something, and there are other times when it works. And you don’t know that I’m woefully underprepared, but I know personally, like, oh, I dodged a bullet there. That turned out way better than it should have.
00:46:38:24 – 00:46:57:58
Tristan Boyle
I, I just I don’t know what happens because sometimes I feel very hyper focused and I’m like really like I’m doing like I can write like 500 words in less than an hour. And I’ve got, like all these ideas, I’m writing them all down, and none of the times I literally sit in front of like a blinking cursor.
00:46:58:03 – 00:47:28:00
Tristan Boyle
I’m just like, this is the only time I’ve got to day to do this. What do I write? What do I write? And it’s just like. And then I’m just, like, looking up something else, and, oh, the emails come in and or the notification my phone and I just. I’ve lost it, you know, and I just, I wish I could control that bit better, but, it just it’s all part of the there’s almost like, not enough feedback from your own stuff that you kind of feel like.
00:47:28:04 – 00:47:36:35
Tristan Boyle
Right. I come back to, you know, I’ll come back to it, but maybe you’re right. Maybe I need to get you others involved again.
00:47:36:35 – 00:48:12:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It’s so for me. I have a core group of sounding boards, and it’s not like a discord channel, although, like, if it was, that would be fantastic. But it’s just like there are 4 or 5 phone numbers in my phone that if I have an idea that I get stuck on or that I’m not sure if it’s good, those are the people I call and most of them, most of the time I’ll get one of them like I can call the first, the second, the third.
00:48:12:11 – 00:48:32:45
Agent Palmer
By the time I hit the fourth number, I’ve had, you know, or maybe I don’t need to call off or I’ll hit somebody and I go, hey, all right, so I have this idea for a post. Hear me out, hear me out. Is this a good idea? And, usually, because these are my normal sounding boards, they’ll go, well, you did something like that a couple of years ago.
00:48:32:47 – 00:48:56:01
Agent Palmer
Or like, you know, that sounds crazy. Or you need to develop that further. But I need these people because and I feel like it’s the one difference between what you described, which is where I was and where I am now, which is I still have all those those ideas are still initially written in the doc somewhere or in a notebook somewhere, because you have to get it out.
00:48:56:06 – 00:49:16:17
Agent Palmer
And I think that’s a, that’s a just a creative thing. You just got to get it out. Then that’s when you put it into the world. Now there are a couple ways to process this, and I don’t want to throw them under the bus because I do that a lot. But Bill Sweeney likes to put pressure on himself, even though he knows he won’t maybe necessarily follow through.
00:49:16:21 – 00:49:36:21
Agent Palmer
He likes to procrastinate, and he’ll say that, and he’ll also say like, I’ll tell people I’m going to do this. So puts more onus on me to actually follow through. Now, sometimes that’s an empty threat and sometimes it’s true. And sometimes when I go, hey Tristan, I got an idea and now you know that I’ve got this idea.
00:49:36:23 – 00:50:04:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And you can hold me accountable. But you’re busy so I know you’re not going to hold me accountable. And it’s great for me because then I get sounding board and you’re gonna, you know you’re going to tell me that it’s good, it’s bad or it needs some work and that’s it. Now it’s back on me to go back in my Google Drive and get lost in the I know he’s your favorite Indiana Jones at the end of the Raiders where it’s just like in that vault because let’s yeah, let’s be honest.
00:50:04:54 – 00:50:27:23
Agent Palmer
That vault is our Google Drive, right. Like there is definitely an ark of the covenant in there that we have completely buried. And because we have so many other ideas coming at us all the time, it just gets buried under and I don’t know what’s there. I, I don’t know about you. I do scroll back through the old ideas on occasion.
00:50:27:23 – 00:50:38:13
Agent Palmer
I’m just like, what’s in here? What can I do now? Maybe, maybe, maybe two years ago when I wrote it down wasn’t the time, but I don’t know, you might have.
00:50:38:18 – 00:51:00:55
Tristan Boyle
You know. Yeah, I, I’ve actually been looking at a couple, because I’ve felt a wee bit kind of like with regards to actually like podcasting, I, I’ve kind of hit a little bit of a bump because I’m like, I really want to get better at being able to actually make a statement and make a monologue. And I really suck at monologues.
00:51:00:55 – 00:51:19:51
Tristan Boyle
I’m much better bouncing off other people. But there are things I have to say, and I struggle with that. So I’ve been trying to go back and seeing if I can resurrect a couple of ideas and kind of make them work, because I think there are there are there’s kind of legitimate things that I think should be out there.
00:51:19:55 – 00:51:25:07
Tristan Boyle
And, you know, in the last two years, nobody else has set them. So, you know.
00:51:25:12 – 00:51:34:05
Agent Palmer
Well, but if you know, you need somebody, I mean, yeah, you can always get a co-host like that. That’s not, you know.
00:51:34:09 – 00:51:40:31
Tristan Boyle
Yeah. But then then that’s that’s scheduling. Well, that’s I get yeah. Sorry I putting up barriers here I.
00:51:40:45 – 00:51:59:54
Agent Palmer
Know and it’s fine. But look in the here’s the thing right. And this is the big difference between what we’re talking about right now and an archeology. An archeology is a full committee where yeah, there was still scheduling involved. But you know, if we had 75% of the crew together, you were good. Like you could let it go.
00:52:00:08 – 00:52:30:43
Agent Palmer
And now we’re talking about, you plus whoever. Right. And, and and it’s not just a committee. It’s not a group where, you know, a quorum of whatever is is acceptable. It’s. Well, now I have to be a part of it, and it’s me plus whomever. And, my work processes are when I have the time and scheduling becomes like, I get it.
00:52:30:48 – 00:53:01:21
Agent Palmer
But the more things that we can create that are fluid, you know, that work that way. Yeah. All the better. I mean, this this show that you’re on right now, this is episode 51, and I still only kind of have a process down like I do, but I don’t. And, you know, all credit to you from way back on episode five saying that this was inevitable.
00:53:01:26 – 00:53:03:46
Tristan Boyle
I think it was something like doomed the podcast.
00:53:03:46 – 00:53:11:23
Agent Palmer
Doomed to podcast. Yeah. Well, you know, it happened, but we find our processes along the way. Yeah.
00:53:11:30 – 00:53:12:42
Tristan Boyle
And and I think, yeah.
00:53:12:51 – 00:53:47:43
Agent Palmer
I’m and I’m excited because I feel like on archeology is a start for you. I’m not saying like, oh he’s just going to keep creating conferences and digital. No. But I feel like and for you it is a huge success. And it was something that you were able to seed and then let other people. So. And that is not first of all, there are not a lot of people in the world who can do that.
00:53:47:48 – 00:54:09:00
Agent Palmer
Right. Like I think about all the ideas I have. And if you were to tell me five of them could be I could see it and let other people so, I don’t know if I could do that. And you’ve done that, that like, the hard part is doing it the first time and you’ve done that. So like more power to you.
00:54:09:04 – 00:54:47:04
Agent Palmer
And I know the final product was a community thing, right? I get that. But you were able to seed it and go, I need help. And that’s huge. Not a lot of people can make that statement. And I feel like there’s a legacy like when you talk about what the unconference originally was and what you did in, in a, maybe you got, you know, it would be great to see some, you know, archaea slam archeology poetry and some, you know, like death metal, you know, death metal digs.
00:54:47:04 – 00:54:49:34
Agent Palmer
I feel like that would be a great,
00:54:49:39 – 00:54:52:20
Tristan Boyle
But, like, a lot. That’s really good.
00:54:52:25 – 00:55:29:06
Agent Palmer
But, like, you know, what you did for content in talking about diversity and in talking and in having a diverse, you know, in not having a, a mantle or not having a white mantle for that. Yeah, right. Like, these things are everlasting, but they are the same as what that original concept was. And I mean, I say mission accomplished because I’m just an observer, really.
00:55:29:11 – 00:55:31:14
Agent Palmer
And I’ll give you my $0.02. When you ask.
00:55:31:19 – 00:55:52:57
Tristan Boyle
I would say mission accomplished. I think, of all things considered, I think we for for what was set out. I think it couldn’t have gone better. And I think there, you know, there’s a couple of things I think we would augment, but, I, I can’t wait to see what we have planned. And I, you know, like.
00:55:52:57 – 00:56:06:23
Tristan Boyle
And I see that really like, because I can’t wait to kind of be a part of that group and decide that, like, it becomes part of that kind of like that space.
00:56:06:28 – 00:56:20:50
Agent Palmer
Here’s, here’s my question for you. Not to put it on me, but I’m not an archeologist. And I don’t know how, you know, I enjoyed it as just a person who kind of knows about history.
00:56:20:55 – 00:56:21:13
Tristan Boyle
00:56:22:16 – 00:56:55:46
Agent Palmer
Different parts, but I know about history. Is someone like me. Now, I attended the conference because I know you. But is someone like me, you know, showing up who’s not in the industry and not a student, and, participates and still enjoys the discussion. It was that and, you know, was that a part of the original conversation of trying to make it more general for somebody like me that has, you know, isn’t in the industry?
00:56:55:46 – 00:57:00:50
Agent Palmer
Or is it like, you know, or is the fact that I enjoyed it like a happy accident?
00:57:00:55 – 00:57:44:15
Tristan Boyle
Yeah. No, I, I think one of the key things that I’ve definitely been very, very keen on is making sure that, that like, archeology isn’t like cordoned off or it isn’t only for a certain type of person. I think one of the biggest problems we have is in archeology is that like, it’s very much seen as like, there’s certain people who can, there’s certain people who can kind of like keep archeology and it’s, there’s this weird thin line of like, obviously ancient aliens kind of stuff really bothers me.
00:57:44:24 – 00:58:16:29
Tristan Boyle
But, what bothers me more is they’re they’ve done a really good job of getting people’s attention. And I feel like history and heritage almost needs to kind of have that attention grabbing, like, ability as well, because, like, people of all kind of like backgrounds are interested in history in the past. Like, I’m pretty sure most people are interested, even if they don’t say they’re interested.
00:58:16:34 – 00:58:46:24
Tristan Boyle
And like, I think we have this kind of universal appeal. It’s just a by making it kind of like universal enough that people are able to understand it within their own kind of like culture, in their own minds. So like the fact that we’re doing something that’s not just your bog standard archeology, I would hope, attracts people who don’t really like, who don’t, who wouldn’t usually consider it.
00:58:46:29 – 00:59:07:36
Tristan Boyle
And I would want to be going forward like that. So that we could have, like, kind of a better archeology overall, a better kind of understanding of history. I’m definitely kind of like, keen for as many different people to get involved as possible.
00:59:07:51 – 00:59:42:37
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I look at it like, and I completely understand where you’re coming at with the ancient aliens thing, but I also feel like I think about it like cosmos. Right? Whether it’s the original, or the, the more recent one. Cosmos was really well done. But if you weren’t already and it was so and it was written both in the 70s and now in a way where it was easily understandable, regardless of how much education you have or what your interest level was.
00:59:42:42 – 00:59:57:49
Agent Palmer
The problem is the people that watched it were already interested in it, and the people that probably need to watch it or, you know, that should watch it, or the people that don’t know they’re interested in it. And how do you grab them?
00:59:57:54 – 01:00:20:19
Tristan Boyle
Yeah, totally. I mean, yeah, this is the thing, is that like, is it, is it a content issue or is an optics issue? You know, this is I, I go back to ancient aliens. The thing is, they’ve got their optics done perfectly. They they know how to grab people’s attention. They know how to keep the attention, and they know how to keep the suspense.
01:00:20:19 – 01:01:04:55
Tristan Boyle
But it’s all deceitful. So it’s almost like the content is bad, but the way they market it is good. And so they’ve managed to kind of build that momentum, whereas I think this is when I was kind of getting out with the whole fragmented, isolated archeologists. Is that everybody wants to make a name for themselves, because that’s what how you kind of like, that’s how you get more kind of appearances, is because people know you as the person for this, and it kind of creates a system where people are like, almost like not fighting, but like contesting for like air time and so, like archeologists will speak about their very specific little area niche
01:01:05:00 – 01:01:31:08
Tristan Boyle
and they’ll kind of like just be the content for, like a wider discussion on something and they won’t ever speak out about anything. You know, it’s only certain people like, I think the only person who’s ever really probably spoken out about, for example, diversity in archeology is Rachel Dave, who is, an archeologist on Time team.
01:01:31:13 – 01:01:55:17
Tristan Boyle
And she just I mean, she’s a woman of color. And so, like, she’s talked about the problems of male panels and channels and stuff. But it’s kind of like the media goes to her because they’re like, well, she’s the kind of person who would talk about it. Yeah. And I think we need to have there needs to be more, actually.
01:01:55:17 – 01:02:21:18
Tristan Boyle
People going, well, I know it doesn’t affect me directly, but it’s making the whole place worse. If we don’t have if we’re having the same people over and over again. It’s it’s tough because you want to challenge the norms of archeology, but you don’t want to buy in to the conspiracy, you know? Well, it’s not it’s similar.
01:02:21:18 – 01:02:43:38
Agent Palmer
To anything else. Right? Like, I’m, I’m, I’m up for, let’s say, 40 something because we’ll round up and make it make me seem older than I am. I’m a 40 something white Jew, right? Yeah. Unless people really want. And I don’t have an opinion on Israel, like, I just don’t. But that’s the only thing they’re coming to me from.
01:02:43:38 – 01:03:00:44
Agent Palmer
Nobody’s going to ask me about racism in this country. Nobody’s going to talk to me about gender issues. I’m a white dude, right? Like I you know what I mean? Like, unless I was ultra-Orthodox and looked Jewish, nobody’s coming to me for any of that stuff, right?
01:03:00:46 – 01:03:01:30
Tristan Boyle
01:03:01:35 – 01:03:14:56
Agent Palmer
Does that mean I don’t have a valid opinion, especially if I’m for diversity. I mean I means I can talk about it but, but nobody’s coming to me for that.
01:03:15:00 – 01:03:18:24
Tristan Boyle
So, but I think this is the it’s interesting. Yeah. Sorry.
01:03:18:24 – 01:03:43:27
Agent Palmer
Going well was just that’s the optics thing for everything right Kristen. Kristen because diversity in every way. Right. Gender cultural whatever whatever. Yeah. That’s a conversation that’s going on across all things. And who talks about it? Who do they go to? They go to the, you know, they go to women of color to talk about gender and racial issues.
01:03:43:32 – 01:03:47:03
Agent Palmer
Well all right. But now you’re typecasting everything.
01:03:47:08 – 01:04:16:20
Tristan Boyle
Yeah I think the problem is that for a very long time they didn’t do that and that there were experts. This is on certain subjects. But I don’t know if it’s overcorrecting. I feel like we haven’t got I feel like for some people, just the existence of people who are not like them. Talking about these issues is even the smallest bit is overcorrecting.
01:04:16:25 – 01:04:47:12
Tristan Boyle
I feel like until you have on like new shows in America or Canada or the UK, if you had a a majority of women of color on those TV shows, unlike news programs, then I’d say, okay, seems like we’re, we’re discriminating against white men. But until that point, I feel like we’ve not had enough kind of different perspectives.
01:04:47:17 – 01:05:13:27
Tristan Boyle
And I think I get this hate casting argument. I think the problem is, and I’ve heard this before as well, actually, with regards to who we were getting for the panels, the kind of people who are approach to do the panels are always the same people because they’re the people, you know, will talk about things and puts a lot of undue pressure on those people in particular.
01:05:13:32 – 01:05:52:52
Tristan Boyle
So like, you know, especially because, you know, some of the stuff is like there’s trauma associated with it, you know, it can be kind of damaging. And like I feel that there also needs to be a better way of beyond the, the media kind of hype and the media kind of representation of these discussions. There must be a better way of getting people to talk about it, because I, I just I feel like there’s the big disconnect between who we are as people in society and the headlines.
01:05:52:52 – 01:06:01:13
Tristan Boyle
You know, I, I’m, I’m really quite disillusioned with the media machine. And it’s attempted like fixing things.
01:06:01:26 – 01:06:24:18
Agent Palmer
Well, and you need more on archeology ideas. Yeah. Because that’s the start, right? It starts with something like that and where it goes. Yeah. You know, I’m not putting it on you, right? Like me, I can come up with an on archeology idea. You know, the listeners can come up with it. But that’s the start. Yeah. And that’s how you start the conversation.
01:06:24:23 – 01:06:30:23
Tristan Boyle
Definitely, definitely.
01:06:30:28 – 01:06:34:46
Agent Palmer
You.
01:06:34:51 – 01:07:00:13
Agent Palmer
The thing about Tristan and on archeology that I find so fascinating is, as I said during the episode, that he seeded the idea, but he didn’t show it alone. He was able to step back from an idea and let others lend a hand without being dictatorial about it. And it is a lesson that Tristan is still learning, one that I have to take to heart more often, and one that we could all use some more faith in.
01:07:00:17 – 01:07:22:41
Agent Palmer
When you can gather together the people who share similar passions in an idea that has brought them together, and if you can get them to get out of their own way, leaving egos at the door, then you stand a chance of letting the group make it greater than you imagined. We are all better as the sum of a group as opposed to solo efforts.
01:07:22:46 – 01:07:47:55
Agent Palmer
That isn’t to say that solo efforts can’t work, but with a little help, things can always be improved for the better, sometimes in unexpected ways. As we ended our conversation, the next great idea can come from anyone. Tristan can have another go, but it could be my turn. Or it could be your turn. Do you have an idea or a repository for unrealized ones?
01:07:48:00 – 01:08:11:22
Agent Palmer
Perhaps it’s time to revisit one of them. Or a few. Perhaps it’s time to see if the universe will provide you with a committee. But like Tristan did you have to ask first? Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 51. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
01:08:11:23 – 01:08:36:42
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer. Tristan at an archeologist that’s an RCA ologist on archeology at on archeology. And this show at the Palmer Files for all things Tristan, you can visit the archeology Podcast network.com, which is where you can find his show Modern Myth with Tristan.
01:08:36:53 – 01:09:00:45
Agent Palmer
And for all things on archeology, you can visit on archeology Talk. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And as always, your home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent Palmer. Dot com.
01:09:00:50 – 01:09:09:07
Unknown
And you?
01:09:09:12 – 01:09:16:18
Unknown
See?
01:09:16:23 – 01:09:31:08
Unknown
Me.
01:09:31:13 – 01:09:34:33
Unknown
See?
01:09:34:38 – 01:09:38:11
Agent Palmer
All right. Tristan, do you have one final question for me?
01:09:38:16 – 01:09:51:08
Tristan Boyle
If there was one thing that you could go back and do, one project never finished, and you could go back and capture the energy of your youth and go and do it. What would that project be?
01:09:51:13 – 01:09:54:38
Agent Palmer
So.
01:09:54:43 – 01:10:25:12
Agent Palmer
Man, I this that, while I’m thinking, right, I’m going to talk for a moment and say that this is so not fair. Because this is episode 51 and on episode one, Bill asked me, one final question that was about unfinished projects. And I don’t know how 50 episodes later I’m still like, I don’t know. Because in episode one, right.
01:10:25:12 – 01:10:57:07
Agent Palmer
I said that it was, finishing a novel that my buddy Jason had written, but you talked about it being my project, and I feel like there’s got to be something I’ve started and not finished. I think. So my first one of the first solo episodes I did for this show was about my trip to Israel and my four months abroad, and how that came to be.
01:10:57:12 – 01:11:43:39
Agent Palmer
And you know what came of it? And while I was there, I wrote a daily journal. And at one point in my youth, I wanted I it might have been some point during, college or maybe just after I had said, you know, I have all of these things. I have a daily log of all four months, you know, in encompassed in you know what, you know, three and a half, two and a half composition notebooks of all this stuff.
01:11:43:39 – 01:12:09:33
Agent Palmer
I’m going to type this up and I’m going to do commentary now. Right. So like, you know, I type up and try and make sense and make it readable. Of like, you know, April 21st, 2000, I did that, I think it was 2000. You know, we went here, here and here, and then I fast forward, you know, change font, change color, whatever it is.
01:12:09:44 – 01:12:31:57
Agent Palmer
And I do like. All right. So this is what I still remember of that. This is what impact it still had on me. And maybe it’s not you know, maybe I don’t interject from myself now on every day because I think that would get tedious. But I can recreate that journal with, added content to make it valid.
01:12:32:02 – 01:12:57:46
Agent Palmer
And bring a full circle. I think if I had actually started it when I first came up with the idea, that would be something I would like to go back and do. And, and I feel like that idea pops into my head every so often, but I don’t know how to make that. I think at one point, and this is the whole go back to your youth.
01:12:58:01 – 01:13:17:54
Agent Palmer
I think at one point I had figured out how to make it relevant to other people, like Tristan. If you didn’t know me, how could I sell you this book? Yeah, and I feel like I at one point I knew that. Now I have no idea. And perhaps it’s the curse of more knowledge. I’ve been writing for the internet.
01:13:17:58 – 01:13:42:41
Agent Palmer
I know what kind of a writer I am. How do I make this applicable to more people that you know aren’t just interested in my story? I think I would have to take the time to do it because I feel like you don’t. That’s the kind of a project you don’t know until you do. But I don’t know if I currently have the energy that I once had and I set it up.
01:13:42:46 – 01:14:09:32
Agent Palmer
I’ll be honest with you, I there is a document somewhere in either Google Drive or on a disk somewhere that’s probably collecting dust, where I had literally set up like a template for myself to work from, which was color coded based on like, you know, here’s the date, here’s the actual entry, and then here’s the commentary or my comments on it.
01:14:09:37 – 01:14:31:55
Agent Palmer
And like, you know, to keep it as a thing, I wanted to keep it as authentic as possible because I felt like people would be interested in my misspellings, as if I was being, like, super creative with, like, words and not just telling the story as it was. So like, you know, I misspelled something, but this is a I had a whole template laid out.
01:14:32:00 – 01:14:57:22
Agent Palmer
I don’t know where it is anymore. Maybe that as like the one big thing, everything else is just like, you know, a short story here or there. That’s like huge. And I’d have to retype two and a half full pages, full journal pages of, like 100. But so those are, I think, 100 pages. And it was front and back, so, 300 pages or something like that.
01:14:57:27 – 01:15:01:32
Agent Palmer
It would be a lot. I, I don’t know if I have the energy to do that.
01:15:01:37 – 01:15:24:54
Tristan Boyle
That’s fair enough. I mean, these are things that I’ve realized that you don’t need to do it all at once. You can do it bit by bit. And maybe, maybe that’s about learning how to put things in bit by bit, like in saying that I can sit and look in the blinking cursor and think, just do a bit, just do a bit.
01:15:24:59 – 01:15:27:30
Tristan Boyle
And it still evades me.
01:15:27:35 – 01:15:29:33
Agent Palmer
And it evades us all.
01:15:29:38 – 01:15:29:58
Tristan Boyle
Yeah.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).