Agent Palmer

Episode 106 features Nicholas W Fuller, an author who is working on his next book while raising two kids, recording interviews for YouTube, and still finds time for that pesky day job. We discuss his writing process, compare our gaming stories, talk about coding, incomplete trilogies, too much media, reading on a kindle, and much much more…

Throughout the conversation, we discuss:

• What’s your process
• Plotter v. Pantser
• Speech to text 
• Editing
• The Writing Process
• Waking Habits
• Self-Employed
• Our gaming stories
• Roads not taken
• Depreciated Syntax
• Name of the Wind
• Too much media
• Incomplete trilogies
• Kindle
• One book at a time
• And much more

Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode

NicholasWFuller.com

YouTube.com/@NicholasWFuller

–End Transmission–

–Begin Transcription–

00:00:00:01 – 00:00:29:04
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. Charity is a fitting end or even a beginning. To date in Samson series, it’s easy to fall in love with the 1955 Dodgers. When reading praying for Gil Hodges, and I can now tease that Will has some funny shorts on the way. Be patient and subscribe. This is The Palmer Files episode 106 featuring Nicholas W Fuller, an author who’s working on his next book while raising two kids recording interviews for his YouTube channel, and still finds time for that pesky day job.

00:00:29:15 – 00:01:11:41
Agent Palmer
We discuss his writing process, compare our gaming stories, talk about coding in complete trilogies to much media, reading on a Kindle, and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.

00:01:11:46 – 00:01:40:02
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 106th episode is Nicholas W Fuller, an author and creative who’s not just writing his next book, but who also hosts Person Behind the Pages, a YouTube series about the authors and creators behind the things we love. His YouTube channel, Nicholas W Fuller, is full of his person Behind the Pages videos, as well as some older ones that, as creators, we all leave published for some reason.

00:01:40:07 – 00:02:05:14
Agent Palmer
It’s views. We we want views. During the conversation you are about to hear, we cover his writing process and how he balances his family life. We discuss gaming and how my journey with video games ended almost two decades ago, plus distractions and rabbit holes. Being self-employed, waking habits depreciated syntax, incomplete. Trilogies, reading one book at a time and well, all of that and a whole lot more is coming your way.

00:02:05:18 – 00:02:30:23
Agent Palmer
But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterwards, you can find all contact information for myself and Nicholas in the show notes. There you can find more information about my guest, Nicholas W Fuller’s work on his website. Nicholas W fuller.com. That’s Nick Hollas for you Leo Broadcom. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com.

00:02:30:23 – 00:02:42:07
Agent Palmer
And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado let’s get into it.

00:02:42:11 – 00:03:08:16
Agent Palmer
Nicholas I don’t often get to start a conversation with a writer like right out of the bat with like, the one thing I always want to talk to them about, but with you, like, that’s where we’re going to go. What is your process like? I am. You know, for context, to give you a little time to think about an answer like I am always about the process.

00:03:08:21 – 00:03:29:09
Agent Palmer
I you know, how things are made. I I’m I’m always dissecting my own. You know, there was, a short lived series on my blog called interrogations where I used to do long form Q and A’s that died because this podcast exists. But like any time it was a writer, I would always be like, what’s your desk situation like?

00:03:29:09 – 00:03:42:06
Agent Palmer
How often do you write like, I, I know there’s no right answer unless, you know, writers don’t even have. Some of them will be like, I don’t know, but like, do you know, like, do you have a process that works?

00:03:42:19 – 00:04:02:42
Nicholas W. Fuller
I, discovering and developing my process that works, you know, so, like, I am, I’ve, I wrote one book, like, 11 years ago, and that was super painful. You know, I that took me, like, years to write, but a part of that was just being young and not having any idea what works for me and what doesn’t, you know, that works.

00:04:02:47 – 00:04:25:07
Nicholas W. Fuller
The more recent one has been okay. And now I’m like, writing a third book, and I think I’m finally figuring out, like, process that really, really works for me. So first in line, I’m, you know, as a writer, also, you probably know that there’s, pantser and plotters, right? I am way more of a plotter than a pantser.

00:04:25:12 – 00:04:40:41
Nicholas W. Fuller
So step one is like, plan the story, right? Yeah. And that could be, you know, I’ll get some kind of idea, some something, and start developing and set it for a bit, make sure that it’s still, you know, has merit within like a couple of weeks or something like that and then be like, okay, like, where is this going to go?

00:04:40:41 – 00:04:57:39
Nicholas W. Fuller
What’s going to happen and plan out. Usually, like the books that I’m writing now are planned to be a trilogy. I have another idea for like five books. So like, I want to have some idea of where they’re all going. Just the one book I’m writing. Yeah. So that. Yeah, so do some outlining with that then. Yeah.

00:04:57:39 – 00:05:22:39
Nicholas W. Fuller
Like I’ve done some experimentation and what I’m doing now that I. That seems to be working and and we’ll see how this goes. I’m using I’m using my phone to do recording. Right. And I’ll just I’ll speak the story. Okay. So I’ve heard I think Neil Gaiman has said I may be misquoting who said this, but someone who’s way better writer than I did has said that, the first draft is just telling yourself the story.

00:05:22:47 – 00:05:41:12
Nicholas W. Fuller
Okay, love that idea. And, like, that’s kind of what I’m doing with the recording is I’m just telling myself the story, you know, I was hopeful that I could use that transcription as like a first draft, but the transcription is so bad and it’s not even it’s like it gets most of the words right, but it can never get like, punctuation of dialog.

00:05:41:12 – 00:05:56:14
Agent Palmer
Correct and syntax like, I, I, and look, I’m, I know I’m years late to getting back to dictation. I was never a fan. Because I would.

00:05:56:18 – 00:06:18:20
Agent Palmer
There was a point where I tried to do that, and but I wouldn’t edit right away, so I would talk, and then, like, three days later, I would come back to it and it would be like, oh, this thing heard me. But it didn’t really hear me. And now I’m like, spending 15 minutes trying to decipher why bread and lawnmower are next to each other.

00:06:18:20 – 00:06:40:01
Agent Palmer
And like, what I said, that made it say type out bread and lawnmower. And at that point, it’s just like, I would have been better off just writing this out, right? And that’s where I’m at right now. Like when I get that, whatever it’s find a piece of paper, a computer, my phone’s the last thing I look for.

00:06:40:05 – 00:06:45:30
Agent Palmer
But I will type it in if I have to, but I. I’m so afraid of.

00:06:45:35 – 00:06:46:23
Nicholas W. Fuller
Losing the idea.

00:06:46:27 – 00:07:07:51
Agent Palmer
It’s not even losing the idea, but not being able to decipher it later on. Sometimes we can just get back to it. And so, yeah, I have an easier time deciphering. However I mistyped or however I used my pen wrong then I do like well, the I misheard like it heard me, but it didn’t hear me. Yeah. So yeah.

00:07:07:56 – 00:07:16:20
Nicholas W. Fuller
No, I totally get you. And like, I have a, a waterproof notepad in my shower and a pencil so that I can, like, write the, you know, like I’ve got. Yeah.

00:07:16:25 – 00:07:21:16
Agent Palmer
I’ve done that. But the dash from the shower to like, anything, you can write it on or.

00:07:21:16 – 00:07:47:37
Nicholas W. Fuller
Something, right? Yeah. Okay. But so what I started doing was say, to hell with the transcript. And I started just like, listening to the recording and typing it out, and again, like, so far right now this is very like new process, like literally just a couple weeks. But it so far it feels really good. You know because I kind of it’s so much easier to work from well like the recording feels easy to do, you know because I’m not like to in my head.

00:07:47:37 – 00:08:13:47
Nicholas W. Fuller
I’m not worried about word choice. I’m just trying to get the story out. You know, then, like listening from the recording gives me something more to work with than a blank page. You know? And it also kind of always when I’m writing, I need, like, a little bit of distraction. I can’t ever listen to like, music with lyrics, but like, at one point I was with the first book I was watching Lord of the rings on repeat over and over and over to the point where I could just, like, quote it endlessly, you know?

00:08:13:52 – 00:08:42:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I mean, I can listen to music, I know with lyrics like albums that I fell in love with, I can put on while I’m writing. But if you put on new music like that, like, like I’m in mute, like there are, there are parts of like Aerosmith, the Rolling Stones, Guns and Roses, Metallica. There are parts of their catalogs that might as well be, just like, do not have lyrics like, I just, I just hear the music.

00:08:42:24 – 00:09:14:17
Agent Palmer
So I’m not distracted by it, but like, you’re right, like some of that stuff it and I, I want to jump ahead for a moment when I specifically when I write things on paper, there’s an editing process that takes place when you have to move that from the paper to the word processor of any kind. So has there been, have you, have you found like the editing process, editing process in quotes, like of moving it from audio to typing it in text?

00:09:14:17 – 00:09:20:26
Agent Palmer
Is that been enjoyable? Fun? Painful? Like what? What’s that been like?

00:09:20:31 – 00:09:41:02
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah. Well, one like I wish I’ve heard from other like, authors that they’ll write their first draft on paper and then like when they’re typing it up, it’s their second draft. I’m like, that sounds amazing. And like, I love that idea. And I love, like, fountain pens and like, it’s just like, so that’s even worse because I type much faster than I write by hand for sure, you know?

00:09:41:07 – 00:09:55:51
Nicholas W. Fuller
And then like again, I’m so laboring over smaller things like word choice that aren’t really where I want to spend my my concentration on a first draft, you know? Yeah, I want to I want to get the story down and like, make it rather than trying to make it all pretty yet, you know.

00:09:56:02 – 00:10:14:16
Agent Palmer
But you know that, right? So can’t you like, you can just work on like I need to just it’s blue. Like, I know this guy. I don’t want this guy to be blue in the final draft, but right now it’s a clear sky. Like, I just move on, like. Or is that like, as you write more, that’s.

00:10:14:21 – 00:10:23:54
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah. I mean, I get your point that I know that, but I guess it’s just like we fight myself on that when I can just do something else that’s so far working.

00:10:23:54 – 00:10:25:01
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah. That. Yeah.

00:10:25:01 – 00:10:47:10
Nicholas W. Fuller
But. Yeah. So, but and so far that that process of editing a bit as I’m typing it out from the recording so far that has felt great. It is like because I’m again, like, I have something to work with, but, you know, fleshing it out a little bit more in the written and it’s like, yeah, I hope that it stays.

00:10:47:10 – 00:10:52:37
Nicholas W. Fuller
That’s good, because right now it feels very much like a sweet spot. And I’m like, man, if the if it could stay this could, you know.

00:10:52:37 – 00:11:14:11
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, I think the other the other thing it allows you to do is allows you to chase some of those rabbit holes, because then you can just go back to like the one thing. And I know, you know, I don’t do large projects. I’ve done a few longer intensive blog posts, but I haven’t really done anything of of length.

00:11:14:15 – 00:11:33:51
Agent Palmer
And I think that one of the things that gets all writers frustrated, regardless of length, you know, it could be 3000 words, but then on on word 1000, you’re a third of the way through. You go down a rabbit hole and then you’ve come out and you’re like, all right, this is the fact or the thing I needed.

00:11:33:51 – 00:11:55:28
Agent Palmer
And you go, wait, where was I going again? And so at the very least, when you’ve got you, you can pause it and go follow any rabbit hole you want and come right back to it, which seems amazing. Yeah. I just yeah, I, I’m kind of happy for you. Now, the other follow up to that is when is all of this happening?

00:11:55:28 – 00:12:00:54
Agent Palmer
Like, are you recording like whenever it comes to you or do you have set times?

00:12:00:59 – 00:12:18:49
Nicholas W. Fuller
So good question. I have well, I work when I can, because number one, I’m a dad and I’ve got a two year old and a ten year old and they take up a lot of time, you know, I don’t know. Are you a parent?

00:12:18:54 – 00:12:20:07
Agent Palmer
I’m not a parent.

00:12:20:11 – 00:12:21:11
Nicholas W. Fuller
Okay. All right.

00:12:21:16 – 00:12:46:05
Agent Palmer
I mean, it shows, like I have a podcast and a blog, and I help other people do things that probably will. You know, there’s a I I’ve always I’ve joked with people that are parent like, I understand that my priorities will definitely change if if the day comes when I become a father, like I know that. But for right now, like, yeah, I can be selfish.

00:12:46:09 – 00:12:55:12
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. And which is. Yeah, it’s a nice thing about not having kids, but but I love my kids. It’s like hard work and. But the most rewarding work.

00:12:55:14 – 00:12:55:44
Agent Palmer
Sure. Yeah.

00:12:55:46 – 00:12:56:44
Nicholas W. Fuller

00:12:56:49 – 00:13:01:30
Agent Palmer
Everybody. So so so at the very least, I’m talking to the right people.

00:13:01:35 – 00:13:28:16
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, number one, they take a lot of time, of course, getting them ready in the morning, getting them to bed in the evening, all that sort of thing. Number two, I got a day job. But my boss is super cool because I work for myself, so he’s very understanding. Nice. So sometimes. Yeah, I can kind of, you know, fudge my schedule around and work in some time.

00:13:28:21 – 00:13:49:00
Nicholas W. Fuller
So, yeah, I, you know, I kind of like the idea of, you know, this is my writing time every day, that sort of structure. But that’s just not kind of the reality for me. So it’s it’s oftentimes I will kind of write during lunch break or write at the end of the day, when the kids are in bed, that sort of thing.

00:13:49:05 – 00:14:01:08
Agent Palmer
So is there one that works better for you, like, I and I don’t want to completely go like night owl, you know, morning bird. But like, does the lunch work better than night? So for.

00:14:01:13 – 00:14:23:11
Nicholas W. Fuller
Sure. Yeah. Like so if it’s like right at the beginning of lunch, it’s good by the afternoon. Like, I’m kind of getting that little bit of that like afternoon drag. And that’s like if I’m fatigued, it’s impossible to like really be writing, you know, I don’t know if you have that experience where you’re just kind of like, tired and like, my brain isn’t actually wanting to work on creative things.

00:14:23:13 – 00:14:48:34
Agent Palmer
No, I, I think I can kind of get around it, but, I can’t edit tired. I can create like, I can. I can go from 0 to 60 while tired. But what I can’t do is look at an existing draft and make it better when I’m tired. Sure, it’s the it’s the second and third time around that is that I need to be alert for.

00:14:48:34 – 00:14:56:32
Agent Palmer
But I can, I can, I can I can start writing and get half a post done before my coffee kicks in in the morning.

00:14:56:36 – 00:15:00:04
Nicholas W. Fuller
Wow. And so so you’re the early bird.

00:15:00:08 – 00:15:25:17
Agent Palmer
I’m, I, I, I’ve adjusted. It has changed. You know, there was a time in my life when I was both, the. But now I’m much more an early brow. Look, I don’t know how much of that is just a figment of, nature. Like, if I, I turned 40 this year, but, like, my grandparents, you know, I don’t have any of them left.

00:15:25:17 – 00:15:44:46
Agent Palmer
But what I remember of them, they were always up at dawn, like, even with that. And I am, I’m. I am only 40 and I am I don’t need an alarm anymore like I, I think back at 20 year old me sleeping until ten and I’m like, even when I want to sleep in, I can’t sleep past eight.

00:15:44:46 – 00:16:10:05
Agent Palmer
And again, I don’t have kids. There’s no external force that’s going to wake me up. But here I am. It’s like six, six, 30 and I’m up regardless. And so I, I’ve kind of tried to use that time, you know, nobody starts their day in it really that early. For, for, for some of the things that I usually end up doing for work.

00:16:10:05 – 00:16:23:42
Agent Palmer
And so it’s like, all right, I’m going to use this time, but I have to it has to be like, right. Like I have to be writing. Writing. Like I have to have the spark. Otherwise I can sit and stare at a blank page like everyone else.

00:16:23:42 – 00:16:36:23
Nicholas W. Fuller
Like that. Sure. Yeah, yeah. So, like, left to my own devices, what I really love is, like, up in the morning and then, like, afternoon nap and then be a night out. That’s like.

00:16:36:23 – 00:16:43:09
Agent Palmer
That’s okay. But how about, has it always been that way? Like, go back to like, high school and college. You same.

00:16:43:09 – 00:17:08:33
Nicholas W. Fuller
Thing. College kind of because I had weird schedules to college some time. But high school obviously that’s just not an option. And like lately with life that’s not always an option, you know? But but yeah, I mean, my son, he needs to be on the school bus at seven a am so often I’ll be waking at 545 during the school year to, to get him up, help him get ready, get dressed, make him breakfast, get his backpack, get him out there.

00:17:08:37 – 00:17:19:39
Nicholas W. Fuller
And yeah, so it’s gotten me to the point where I’m also that way, even if there’s somehow magically an opportunity for me to sleep in, it’s like, nope, still up at like 630 at the latest.

00:17:19:39 – 00:17:45:00
Agent Palmer
I can honestly tell you that of all the jobs I wanted before I turned 18, I think writer might have been one for a while, but it wasn’t like, I’m going to like that. Being the next great American author was never remotely in my cards. Like ever. Did I want to be a writer at a certain point?

00:17:45:00 – 00:17:58:52
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, I think some of us in that creative space, maybe we don’t always end up here right away. This is a long and winding road, but like, where was it for you as far as, like, I’m going to be a writer?

00:17:58:57 – 00:18:25:26
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah. Interesting question. I will say, like my my mom always wanted to write a book and she was a lit major in, in college, so that never felt weird. But then also, like, I kind of always felt like anything was a possibility because my, my dad’s day job was keeping astronauts alive. Okay. He was an environmental control life support system engineer on the space shuttle.

00:18:25:35 – 00:18:32:21
Nicholas W. Fuller
So, you know, when that’s the case, you kind of just, you know, think anything is is reasonable. Yeah.

00:18:32:26 – 00:18:44:29
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. That’s I mean, there are there are probably harder jobs, but I don’t know if there are harder and more stressful jobs than like keeping somebody else alive somewhere else.

00:18:44:33 – 00:18:53:01
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There were definitely times where he had to come in and, they had a sort of problem, you know?

00:18:53:06 – 00:18:55:54
Agent Palmer
Now, did you ever write the book?

00:18:55:59 – 00:19:02:01
Nicholas W. Fuller
No. Yeah. Which, like, she’s kind of given up on it, sadly. Has she.

00:19:02:05 – 00:19:04:21
Agent Palmer
But but has she lived through you?

00:19:04:26 – 00:19:24:06
Nicholas W. Fuller
She’s. Yeah. She’s, supportive of me writing, which is nice. Yeah. The first book I read, I was like, mom, can you edit this? And she’s like, okay, I like this on this, but I feel like you had to need a whole different subplot with this over here and like, new characters or whatever. And I was like, what is happening?

00:19:24:11 – 00:19:43:25
Nicholas W. Fuller
You know? But so I haven’t quite like, wanted that much input. Okay. But but, but yeah, it’s, you know, she’s like the last stuff I gave her for the novel I’m currently writing. I gave her just the first couple chapters, and she’s like, I want more. And I’m like, okay, good. Yeah, yeah.

00:19:43:29 – 00:19:53:11
Agent Palmer
That’s that’s I mean, that’s always the the key, right? Like, if you can give somebody something in there like, is that, is there more of this like, yeah you’ve done you’ve done good.

00:19:53:11 – 00:20:03:32
Nicholas W. Fuller
Doing something right. Yeah yeah yeah. But but immediately after high school, the thing that I was, trying to go pursue professionally was making video games.

00:20:03:37 – 00:20:04:53
Agent Palmer
Okay.

00:20:04:58 – 00:20:06:24
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah, I so.

00:20:06:37 – 00:20:30:28
Agent Palmer
I, I was for me, it was music like, oh, cool. Because I’m presuming you were playing games at that point too. And you’re like, I like playing these. Maybe I’ll create it. And for me, at that age, it was I enjoy listening to music and I was playing music, and it was like, I kind of want to do this, but I never took that next step.

00:20:30:28 – 00:21:01:25
Agent Palmer
Like it never became more than a hobby ish. And when I say hobby, I was the one with the portal studio and I was the one who could record things, and it kind of nicely meshed into podcasting. Yeah, and editing and all that kind of stuff. But like, video games were always an escape for me. But I also and I get crap for this all the time from friends, especially friends that have known me for decades on now.

00:21:01:29 – 00:21:07:51
Agent Palmer
My gaming truly ended in like 2003.

00:21:07:56 – 00:21:09:51
Nicholas W. Fuller
Oh, okay. There’s got to be a story here.

00:21:09:53 – 00:21:42:26
Agent Palmer
Like, well, so I my favorite PC games really. We’re talking Tides of Darkness. We’re talking the first Diablo and we’re talking quake. Like, let’s just quake, right? That’s my stuff. That’s the stuff I love. And obviously before that we’re talking about like civilization in Civ two and nothing beyond that, really. I, I was a big fan of also, Sid Meier’s Pirates and Colonization as a port of civilization.

00:21:42:40 – 00:22:17:04
Agent Palmer
And then I never had a gaming console until I bought a Gamecube for myself. Okay. And so it was, Wind Waker. It was Animal Crossing, which kind of addicted everyone. I was in college at the time. It was some sports games, and it was, Skies of Arcadia legends. And then I any system that I get beyond that, like, 3 or 4 is all about like, either FIFA or, or some kind of football.

00:22:17:04 – 00:22:42:17
Agent Palmer
I prefer college to pro but Madden because and yeah, got rid of the NCAA. It’s coming back eventually. But like so my true real gaming though like I will still pop on quake and play a single player. And I will still play through Diablo one and I will still, you know, I still have old windows XP computers so I can play Tides of Darkness easy.

00:22:42:22 – 00:23:05:50
Agent Palmer
And like, I know you can get it on steam and stuff, but like, I can still do land parties for Quake and Warcraft if I want in my house. And so I really get criticized for having it end there. But like, that’s the that’s really the story I got. I, my buddy literally handed me Diablo two, and I got like a few hours in and I was like, it’s just not for me.

00:23:05:50 – 00:23:30:46
Agent Palmer
Like, there is I, I’m probably the I’m the oddity. Hi. It’s me. Like I’m not I wasn’t I never really fell in love with MMOs and I think that the complexities of Diablo two, specifically when it’s like it’s not just this is a weapon, it’s here’s a weapon. How do you want to make it better? To me, that just muddies up the fun.

00:23:31:01 – 00:23:49:48
Agent Palmer
That’s not fun. If I want, as an example, if I want that kind of fun, I’m going to go back to playing fantasy baseball. Like, that’s what I’m going to do and where I have complete control of the roster and everything. But what you’re doing with Diablo two is you’re trying to make me customize things that I’d rather just.

00:23:49:59 – 00:24:13:17
Agent Palmer
I just want to hack and slash, like, I, I just want to hack and slash, and there’s so many pieces to that game that made it more complex. And I think where my gaming stopped way back then, 20 years ago. At this point, everything was fairly simple. Like, none of those games are like really that complex, but they’re fun and immersive, and that’s where I want it to stay.

00:24:13:21 – 00:24:34:18
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s super interesting. And I get what you’re saying. But I also feel like I feel like eventually, like with enough like conversation and probing, we could find a game that was more modern that you’d be like, okay, this one. Did you ever play any of the like the like the first God of War game?

00:24:34:18 – 00:24:53:33
Agent Palmer
No, no, I mean, I will say this, the current game I play the most now is Minecraft, but I don’t include that because it I consider even on survival, it’s basically Lego. And so I don’t I don’t really count that, although I guess technically it is me gaming.

00:24:53:38 – 00:24:54:14
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah, sure.

00:24:54:16 – 00:24:55:47
Agent Palmer
But like.

00:24:55:51 – 00:24:57:11
Nicholas W. Fuller
My son would count it.

00:24:57:16 – 00:24:58:27
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah, that’s.

00:24:58:31 – 00:24:58:57
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah.

00:24:59:02 – 00:25:08:22
Agent Palmer
I it’s a and that’s fun. I, I’m not, embarrassed by it, but like, I just, I don’t know that’s that’s where I’m at and I don’t.

00:25:08:27 – 00:25:16:45
Nicholas W. Fuller
Know that stuff is on me. Have you seen like. I mean, I’ll see the video is like someone’s built Ministry is in. Oh in Minecraft. I’m like, what?

00:25:16:46 – 00:25:17:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No I.

00:25:17:42 – 00:25:18:04
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah.

00:25:18:04 – 00:25:49:54
Agent Palmer
I yeah I yeah it’s it’s crazy. But yeah I don’t know because I’m also a reader. And there’s only so much time and with Minecraft with Minecraft specifically like I can play for five minutes, I can play for five hours. But with all the games I just mentioned, like, you know, Warcraft two, you might be able to play something in a half hour, depending on the quote unquote campaign quake.

00:25:49:54 – 00:25:54:05
Agent Palmer
You can get through a level as quick as seconds or as long as 15 minutes.

00:25:54:20 – 00:25:57:32
Nicholas W. Fuller
But like civilization, forget it. There goes your whole night.

00:25:57:32 – 00:26:20:42
Agent Palmer
Oh yeah. That’s you’re just know that and and like, I’m also that guy for civilization specifically where it’s like, I don’t like this start. I’m just get like to after five minutes. I know this is a good thing or it’s not. Random generator has messed me up. I just can start over. Right? So it’s like three hours of five minute games before you’re like, oh, this is the one I want to start.

00:26:20:42 – 00:26:22:50
Agent Palmer
Like, okay, yeah,

00:26:22:55 – 00:26:25:03
Nicholas W. Fuller
This is the one I’m going to play for the next three days.

00:26:25:03 – 00:26:36:48
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But like all that stuff has kind of like, you know, merged. And now I just, you know, I’m still a consumer, but like, I, I read stuff or I, you know.

00:26:36:53 – 00:26:37:15
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah.

00:26:37:15 – 00:27:01:04
Agent Palmer
Watch stuff. I mean, there’s so much stuff to watch and so gaming mainly because it stopped I think, I think had it not stopped, like had I been addicted to like, wow. And we all have those friends, even if I wasn’t one of them, I knew them. Right. Like, maybe it’s a different place here and now, but I just yeah, I missed the boat.

00:27:01:04 – 00:27:14:24
Agent Palmer
I wasn’t doing it. And, so here I am. But you, you wanted to do that. You wanted to create those things? Yeah. How far down the path did you get?

00:27:14:24 – 00:27:23:10
Nicholas W. Fuller
At the time that I graduated high school, there were two schools in the country, in the US that were teaching game development specifically. Right? Not just.

00:27:23:15 – 00:27:23:51
Agent Palmer
Not just go.

00:27:23:51 – 00:27:33:30
Nicholas W. Fuller
To something, right? Right, right, right. And I was like, okay, cool. One of these schools is in Orlando. I live right now, not so far from Orlando.

00:27:33:39 – 00:27:34:35
Agent Palmer
Was that full sail?

00:27:34:47 – 00:27:48:03
Nicholas W. Fuller
That was full Sail. Yep. So I went to Full Sail. And they’re that like they offer a bachelor’s degree and they’re accredited. But their bachelor’s degree is in 22 months. I think it was at the time.

00:27:48:07 – 00:27:51:25
Agent Palmer
So accelerated very, very accelerated.

00:27:51:25 – 00:28:14:15
Nicholas W. Fuller
Exactly. Yeah. And it is fundamentally like all the examples and all the coursework is game related, but it’s basically a computer science degree. So I did that for a while, and it totally kicked my butt because I was like skating through high school easy without having to work real hard. And then I get to that and I’m like, oh, I need to learn how to work real hard.

00:28:14:15 – 00:28:35:20
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah, this is yeah, so so I yeah, I pursued that for a bit and then, you know, kind of got out of that because it kicked my butt, took a break with the intentions of coming back to it, but just didn’t. But I ended up using those skills later on to because again, it was mostly computer science.

00:28:35:20 – 00:28:52:05
Nicholas W. Fuller
And a friend of mine was building websites with a lot of, like, back end code. The skills I learned for, for coding for games was C plus. Plus was not that different from like the syntax and the logic behind PHP for web servers. Yeah. So that’s that became the day job, you know.

00:28:52:10 – 00:29:17:57
Agent Palmer
Gotcha. I, I, I went from HTML to CSS to PHP to do website stuff and now I’ve been out of it for so long, I think I’m done, like, I can I think, I think I can move into email marketing if I want because that’s still HTML and CSS, but my PHP is basically just go a lot.

00:29:18:02 – 00:29:38:34
Agent Palmer
I don’t remember it at all. And everybody’s like riding a bike, but it’s not because like riding a bike, you use the same like you. You use your balance. You. These are where you put your hands, even if you have like different handles. It’s like there there are only so many things you do. And the reason it’s like riding a bike is because you cannot.

00:29:38:39 – 00:29:54:45
Agent Palmer
Those are universal with point B, like if you’re working on something and you need a, a certain call function. Yeah. Well five years down the road you’re not going to remember that call function. And so I am so far removed.

00:29:54:50 – 00:30:05:16
Nicholas W. Fuller
And not only that like five years down the road, it may be the the specific function you were using before has been deprecated. You know, like that thing. So yeah.

00:30:05:18 – 00:30:34:24
Agent Palmer
I believe I wish I still knew where it was. I, I’m a, I’m a digital hoarder is what I’ll call it. Like most of it’s fairly organized, but somewhere I have an email thread where I was working, marketing for a destination marketing organization, and I was in charge of the website, but we had a website, agency, and I was the liaison, basically, because I could speak their language better than anyone else, really.

00:30:34:24 – 00:30:57:54
Agent Palmer
And so we were I have an email thread with me and one of the developers about all of the HTML that I was using that was depreciated. And I was like, but it still works. So it’s like strong versus bold and italics versus I like just little tiny or M for emphasis, like just little things that I’m like.

00:30:57:59 – 00:31:24:14
Agent Palmer
But it still works like a lot of this web. I mean, people joke about web 3 or 5 or whatever number we’re up to now, but a lot of the original web stuff still works like that. Infrastructure still exists. And so I have this email thread because he like, we just went back and forth. It was like an afternoon, but I was like, and, and I suppose you’re going to tell me that I’m not allowed to use this anymore.

00:31:24:14 – 00:31:45:15
Agent Palmer
And he’s like, well, it’s kind of been replaced by this. And I was like, well, and just it’s just so funny because, like, I there’s a part of me that wishes I had looked stuff up to kind of get it deeper, but really, truly, it was just like, well, this is how outdated your skills really are in just like two years.

00:31:45:15 – 00:31:47:07
Agent Palmer
Like, it was just like.

00:31:47:12 – 00:32:12:10
Nicholas W. Fuller
Oh, what sort of I would love to, like, someday have my writing be my job, my career. And part of the reason is because, like, I won’t have to worry so much about staying on top of like, changing technology, you know, and like relearning things that I thought I knew how to do the thing and suddenly it’s not the right way to do it anymore.

00:32:12:10 – 00:32:13:02
Nicholas W. Fuller
That gets so old.

00:32:13:16 – 00:32:39:39
Agent Palmer
So I guess the question would be, I know you’ve got a YouTube channel and I know you’ve got, you know, books in the works. Is, is it going to be just like, do you want it to be just writing, or are you okay with being like, like a creator of sorts and doing the YouTube stuff along with publishing books?

00:32:39:39 – 00:32:45:31
Agent Palmer
Like, is there a is there a goal where, like, all of it’s acceptable or like you really just want to be a writer?

00:32:45:31 – 00:33:07:11
Nicholas W. Fuller
Good question. I would love to do all of it. Like, you know, I own my own business, like I said. So I definitely feel like I have an entrepreneurial mindset, at least to a certain degree. Sure. So I love, like, you know, the idea of doing all sorts of crazy things. Like, I definitely I like to write the books and I want to write the books and get those out.

00:33:07:11 – 00:33:32:13
Nicholas W. Fuller
Probably want to self-publish in part so that I can kind of do things on my own time scale and then have all the rights. I’m thinking I like, kind of designed a little tabletop card game years ago for fun, but now I’m realizing I can sort of take the mechanics that were fun, but tweak it a little bit so that the characters in the game are more representative of characters in my book, and then kind of have that along with it.

00:33:32:13 – 00:33:53:04
Nicholas W. Fuller
But so that sounds kind of fun to me. I love doing interviews also on my YouTube channel. That’s been really fun, so I would love to just continue doing that and get better, grow it. And you know, I don’t think I would ever get this big, but if I could be kind of like the hot ones of authors, that would be amazing.

00:33:53:04 – 00:33:55:55
Nicholas W. Fuller
You know? I mean, I know if you know, hot ones on YouTube, that show. Yeah.

00:33:55:55 – 00:34:19:05
Agent Palmer
I mean, I guess I, I would say you’re in a good place then, because I don’t know any authors any more. Like the authors that we grew up with, like the Stephen King’s, even the Terry Brooks. And like some of these other authors that were authors, they could only get away with that with the way publishing was and the way publishing is now.

00:34:19:05 – 00:34:48:42
Agent Palmer
You almost also need the YouTube channel, and you don’t need a blog like you don’t need to write other things. But you you do need a newsletter, and you do like there are just I think if if you’re if it’s still fun, if you can, if you can find a way to make sure it doesn’t go stale, like, I don’t know if anybody out there can be just a author, like not even just a writer, just an author.

00:34:48:42 – 00:34:54:40
Agent Palmer
Like I just write books. Like, I don’t know that that exists unless you’re already independently wealthy.

00:34:54:45 – 00:34:56:32
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah.

00:34:56:36 – 00:35:26:49
Agent Palmer
It’s. And I think that’s sad too, because, like, you enjoy the interview stuff and you could probably turn, a book with a side game into something that really sells. But at the same time, imagine what you could do if all of your energy was just going towards writing. And I’m not saying that’s for everybody, but like I do wonder, like, all right, well, I’m glad you wrote that book.

00:35:26:54 – 00:35:33:07
Agent Palmer
What about your newsletter? Like, what is it like? Oh, all of this other energy’s going towards other thing. Yeah.

00:35:33:08 – 00:35:45:17
Nicholas W. Fuller
Good point I guess. Like yeah. Even I’m trying to think of like people you know, that are authors that I can think of that are like just writing one name that popped into my mind was Patrick Rothfuss. I don’t know if you know the Name of the wind. Great book, one of my favorites.

00:35:45:22 – 00:36:03:19
Agent Palmer
It’s on a shelf. I was, I, I it’s on my list like I’m, I’m going through this thing where I’m reading all the books in my house because, like, if I ever have to move them again or if I ever want to downsize, I want to make sure that I’m not like taking another 50 pounds of books unread.

00:36:03:19 – 00:36:24:21
Agent Palmer
So like, I’m reading all of and it’s in my house, which is a start. The people I they’re, I, I reserve judgment to myself and I can, I can put everybody’s opinions out of it. But I do know that for some reason, that book is more polarizing than any other book I’ve ever heard of in, like, the fantasy space.

00:36:24:21 – 00:36:41:50
Agent Palmer
Like there are people that are like, I love it and swear by it like you just did. And there are people that are like, I couldn’t get through the first 30 pages, and I just threw it across the room and I was like, whoa, like, and that’s not something like individual. That’s like, I’ve heard that from multiple people on both sides.

00:36:41:50 – 00:37:01:53
Agent Palmer
And it’s just like, well, I’ve never heard anybody been like like some people be like, well, Lord of the rings wasn’t for me, but nobody’s ever thrown it across the room or swarmed by it so much. But yeah, I eventually like it’s there. I will eventually, crack its pages. It’s just not.

00:37:01:58 – 00:37:23:19
Nicholas W. Fuller
Has. It’s really interesting though, like I’ve. Yeah, I’ve, felt that Patrick Rothfuss is very polarizing also, but not so much for people that hate the book, but people that like lately, people don’t like him. Okay. Because he’s like, made promises and not delivered. And he like he said initially that the the whole trilogy, it’s planned as a trilogy was was done.

00:37:23:19 – 00:37:36:24
Nicholas W. Fuller
He said in the very beginning. And it’s been ten years since the second book came out. Okay. But whatever. Like, yeah. So you have to be comfortable with the fact knowing that it’s a, incomplete trilogy. And some people think that it may never be completed. I mean.

00:37:36:26 – 00:38:00:26
Agent Palmer
I’ll say this, I one of my favorite books, Clive Barker’s Great and Secret Show, was not one I ever expected to read a sequel for. And then he released Evansville, and I was like, oh, great, this is amazing. And it feels like Evansville feels like a middle book, although I don’t think he he wrote it that way.

00:38:00:26 – 00:38:36:07
Agent Palmer
I don’t know if he did or didn’t, but like, there’s clearly never been a third book. And so like I. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I guess if that’s how it ends, that’s how it ends. Like, all right, you know, it’s fine. I mean, you know, I, I also think that there’s a, there’s a part of social media and George R.R. Martin where it’s like maybe like I’m all I’m all for authors getting fame and fortune and, but, maybe don’t run your mouth so much.

00:38:36:12 – 00:38:59:31
Agent Palmer
Like, I think that this is I don’t think this is a hot take, but I think most of the vitriol that comes at Martin for not finishing the quote unquote game of Thrones series is because he kept promising, like, if he just doesn’t like if he just keeps talking about how much he loves back to the future. I don’t think anybody hates him.

00:38:59:31 – 00:39:24:27
Agent Palmer
They ask him, they where’s the next book? But it’s not like he was. He just. He needed somebody to explain media to him and like, you know, kind of like, what I would I always assume that, colleges and professional sports teams should do with their athletes who are working with the media. Just be like, you just need some proficiency.

00:39:24:27 – 00:39:44:25
Agent Palmer
If they don’t ask, don’t tell them. Right. And he and you can even just say, I don’t have an answer at this time. But like he he he didn’t have nobody put a gun to his head and was like, you have to tell us when the next book’s coming out. Like, no, it’s not. I don’t, I don’t even read the books.

00:39:44:30 – 00:40:13:42
Agent Palmer
And I haven’t even watched the series. But like, all I know is that people hate him because he has not delivered. Yeah. And all I keep thinking is, yeah, I mean, he did give you quite a few books to begin with, and that spun off a television series which is more than a lot of things get like, I love Terry Brooks, I love Terry Brooks, and people hated, The Shannara Chronicles.

00:40:13:47 – 00:40:35:09
Agent Palmer
And guess what? That’s all you’ll ever get. You won’t get it again. That’s a property that’s basically dead to the world as far as IP properties are concerned. So if you enjoyed Game of Thrones in the books, you’ve already gotten more than Shannara fans did. So I I’m sorry. Like, stop being greedy.

00:40:35:09 – 00:40:40:00
Nicholas W. Fuller
Like is that like I watched that show? I thought that show was okay.

00:40:40:00 – 00:40:48:49
Agent Palmer
I just I thought it was fine. I thought the, the the some of the art decisions were kind of cool, but like I also I’m.

00:40:48:49 – 00:40:56:43
Nicholas W. Fuller
Sure I’m sure it’s one of those ones where like the books are better, but is, are the overall ratings on that show like people think it’s not good.

00:40:56:43 – 00:40:59:37
Agent Palmer
I think people who read the books hated it.

00:40:59:42 – 00:41:00:41
Nicholas W. Fuller
Okay. Well, that.

00:41:00:41 – 00:41:17:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah, which is general, I think that’s a general. I went to it with an open mind because I was like, well, this is probably the only time I’m going to get to see these characters. Sure. So I was like, all right, I’m, I’m interested. Like, let’s go. But and I haven’t watched rings of Power. There’s just too much content.

00:41:17:53 – 00:41:25:32
Agent Palmer
Like, I want to watch it and it’s on the list, the great list in the sky, right. But like, there’s so much you.

00:41:25:32 – 00:41:39:57
Nicholas W. Fuller
Were talking about, like, you know, not making time for games. That’s exactly like how I feel about how much good television and movies there are right now. There’s just too much content. I can’t possibly stay on top of everything that’s good out there. Well, you know.

00:41:40:02 – 00:42:13:00
Agent Palmer
I, I don’t know about you, but like, there are independent creators that I follow and I will make more appointment television, quote unquote, television time for a 15 minute YouTube video from a creator. I like over the big motion picture because, like, no offense to the currently still striking actors and writers, but I feel like the one guy doing it out of his apartment by himself deserves my time and needs that watch a little bit more.

00:42:13:00 – 00:42:22:50
Agent Palmer
And if I want to support him, that’s the one thing I can do. And I so I put him above the big studio and it’s like, yeah, but it all adds up.

00:42:22:55 – 00:42:23:47
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah, yeah.

00:42:23:49 – 00:42:27:36
Agent Palmer
Can’t watch everything that’s that’s insane.

00:42:27:41 – 00:42:40:40
Nicholas W. Fuller
Literally. I pulled up YouTube earlier today. I’m like just taking a quick break from work. And there were like three different videos from three different channels that I enjoy and watch. And I was like, I can’t just sit here and spend the next hour watching. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah.

00:42:40:54 – 00:42:58:31
Agent Palmer
It’s I will say it is easier to consume than like reading a book, right. Because I can yeah, I can throw it on my phone in front of the dishes and watch some pots and pans or stuff, like, there are ways to multitask with it, but at the same time, there’s only so much you can do. Yeah.

00:42:58:35 – 00:42:59:15
Agent Palmer

00:42:59:20 – 00:43:00:26
Nicholas W. Fuller
Do you do audiobooks too?

00:43:00:34 – 00:43:27:30
Agent Palmer
No, no. In fact, I went from probably I’m not going to say how many I subscribed to. I was subscribed to a lot of podcasts, but I went from regularly listening to about 15 different shows a week, to one. Wow. Well, I’ll say two, but it’s like one that I listen to religiously now and then like, yeah, the others I pick and choose another one to listen to.

00:43:27:30 – 00:43:49:36
Agent Palmer
But I’m, you know, I’m at this point, I’m a freelance consultant and my, my quote unquote day job is either writing or editing audio. And you can’t do that while listening to a podcast. And I can’t write my own stuff or edit my own stuff while listening. So it just, it kind of the one thing that had to fall away.

00:43:49:36 – 00:44:20:57
Agent Palmer
And then at the same time, I still want to listen to music. So it’s just kind of like a balance thing. And. Yeah, but yeah, I yeah, I would much prefer like if you gave me a choice, here’s a book. How do you want it. I, I would like the physical copy please. Like I will read like it’s, it’s not even a humblebrag like I will read occasionally advance copies of books on a Kindle.

00:44:21:02 – 00:44:45:35
Agent Palmer
But whether I love the book or not, it always takes me maybe 50 to 100% longer. Like almost double the amount of time to read it than it would in physical form. Just because I can, I just will. I’ve never look, I’ve had the Kindle for over a decade, okay? I just have never been comfortable with that format for long form written content.

00:44:45:35 – 00:44:48:28
Agent Palmer
I, I need the book.

00:44:48:33 – 00:45:11:10
Nicholas W. Fuller
Right? Yeah, interesting to me. I get you, I really like my Kindle. Okay. Like two reasons. Number one. The newer Kindles with the backlight. It’s just the best thing for reading in bed. It’s so nice. But to. I told you that I have a two year old daughter. Yeah. When she was only a few months old, she wanted to be held all the time.

00:45:11:10 – 00:45:12:43
Agent Palmer
You can hold it with one hand.

00:45:12:47 – 00:45:21:14
Nicholas W. Fuller
You can hold it and you can read with one hand. And honestly, like it was making me read more for entertainment, you know, because I was, oh yeah, I can. It was so nice.

00:45:21:18 – 00:45:26:55
Agent Palmer
Now, here’s a question. How many books do you read at once?

00:45:27:00 – 00:45:46:48
Nicholas W. Fuller
I generally will try to kind of only do one because I don’t want to mix and match, you know? I don’t want to get. Wait, what? What was going on here? Okay. But sometimes I will do at least two because like I do also like audiobooks because I can like listen to a little snippet of the audiobook while I’m driving my kids to school or while I’m doing the dishes or that sort of thing.

00:45:46:48 – 00:45:49:43
Nicholas W. Fuller
Okay, so anyway, how about you? How many?

00:45:49:54 – 00:46:11:50
Agent Palmer
One. Just one? No, I’m I’m one like I and I will get like, somebody will be like, oh, can you read this for me in the next month? And I’ll be like, yeah, I guess tomorrow I’m going to be finishing the book I’m reading now. Like, I just do. I can’t do it. And, I’ve at I even have gotten to a point where, like, I can’t I it’s not that I can’t.

00:46:11:50 – 00:46:44:15
Agent Palmer
I try not to read the same author or type of book back to back. So I’ll do fantasy nonfiction essays, some other kind of fiction like, and I’ll just try and it’s just so different parts of my brain and different. So I don’t because like, I remember at the very beginning and I just finished, reading all of Lynn Dayton’s catalog, which is like a lot, and it’s mainly spy fiction, but there’s a lot of World War Two nonfiction in there.

00:46:44:15 – 00:47:03:01
Agent Palmer
And I will say that I read two of the spy fictions back to back, and even though I have a process where, like, I read the book and I write about it most of the time, halfway through the second book, back to back, I was like, wait, which what am I thinking of? And I was like, I don’t want this to happen again.

00:47:03:01 – 00:47:24:47
Agent Palmer
So I put even just a nonfiction or a different kind of genre in between everything. And it kind of smart. Yeah. It it’s like an unintentional intentional palate cleanser. Yeah. Yeah. But it also helps with, like, reading through every book in my house, because otherwise I would just be like, all right, well, I don’t feel like reading that.

00:47:24:47 – 00:47:29:58
Agent Palmer
It’s like, no, I, I’m going to read these. So, time to get back to some nonfiction.

00:47:30:03 – 00:47:38:36
Nicholas W. Fuller
So nice. Do you have your, all your print books like, are they all displayed prominently somewhere or are they in boxes or.

00:47:38:37 – 00:48:02:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I have, yeah, they’re all displayed. There is, three bookcases in my bedroom that I, I mean, my, my partner, she’s got her books there too. I have, one, two, three, four, five in my office right now. My living room has, another bookshelf. I don’t have a big enough house where I can have a room.

00:48:02:09 – 00:48:25:19
Agent Palmer
That’s a library. Yeah, but my house contains all of the. Yeah, nothing’s in boxes, and I. I think part of that is because I did a purge when I moved into this house of, like, these are books I don’t care about or whatever. The only books I have in storage are kids, children’s books. My doctor, Seuss. So if I do end up having a kid, those are going to have to come out and go somewhere.

00:48:25:19 – 00:48:26:26
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah, yeah.

00:48:26:31 – 00:48:27:02
Agent Palmer
That’s,

00:48:27:07 – 00:48:35:39
Nicholas W. Fuller
That’s good. Yeah. That is one thing I do like about print Brooks, though, is they sort of feel like trophies for me, you know, like, oh, yeah, this is this is my art that I love this one. This goes right this way.

00:48:35:39 – 00:48:42:26
Agent Palmer
I have to read all the ones because some of them are just up there. And I’m like, I don’t know if that’s a trophy or not.

00:48:42:31 – 00:48:53:26
Nicholas W. Fuller
No no no. Yeah. Fair. And and same with like some of these up here. But yes.

00:48:53:31 – 00:49:10:52
Agent Palmer
Why is it that process is so important to me? I think it has a lot to do with being curious, but it also has maybe even more to do with wanting to improve. There is no right or wrong way to create, especially when it comes to writing. But what works for me works for me and what I have tried.

00:49:10:52 – 00:49:33:57
Agent Palmer
That doesn’t work. I have discarded into the dustbin of the past. But what I do not know, I probably haven’t tried. And that is why creative people often ask others about process. And even if we have something that works for us, we are always on the lookout for something that will work better. Why? Because the creative process is never simple or smooth.

00:49:33:59 – 00:50:03:30
Agent Palmer
It’s rarely flawless, even when it flows easily. I’ll be the first to admit that not only is the creative process hard, it should be. I think that the struggle to create is part of what makes great stories and art great. And it’s also why writers and artists are always on the lookout for something else to try. I have spoken with and worked with a great many artists and writers, even if we just limit it to the last decade and they have all evolved their processes, even the ones that worked.

00:50:03:35 – 00:50:28:21
Agent Palmer
And if I’m honest, this stuff is not, or at least should not be limited to art. What stuff? The evolution of process. Things get better, things change. But the only way for that to happen is to allow yourself to be open to the new things, and to actively look for more. So what works for you as far as your process and organization?

00:50:28:26 – 00:50:51:05
Agent Palmer
When someone asks you, what’s your process? What’s your answer? Reach out and let me know. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 106. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact myself and my guest, Nicholas W Fuller, in the show notes.

00:50:51:18 – 00:51:25:00
Agent Palmer
There you can find more information about my guests work on his website. Nicholas W fuller.com. Again, that’s Nicholas Wfiu lcr.com. The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Email can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.

00:51:25:05 – 00:51:32:56
Unknown
You.

00:51:33:01 – 00:51:55:43
Unknown
See?

00:51:55:48 – 00:52:00:41
Unknown
Me?

00:52:00:46 – 00:52:03:08
Agent Palmer
All right. Nicholas, do you have one final question for me?

00:52:03:12 – 00:52:12:53
Nicholas W. Fuller
Yeah. You mentioned music before. So do you play something or how do you how do you what you because you were going to get into music for a school, right. And making music.

00:52:13:02 – 00:52:37:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I was going to be a producer. Okay. I knew my skills. I used a little bit of my skills, and I still know the limit of my skills, but it doesn’t stop me from trying. No, I have, downsized my collection over the years because it was pretty big at one point. I, I like to say I’m a bass player and a rhythm guitarist.

00:52:38:01 – 00:52:41:41
Agent Palmer
I have three basses in this house. I have.

00:52:41:46 – 00:52:43:57
Nicholas W. Fuller
So you play. You’re just being.

00:52:44:02 – 00:52:44:16
Agent Palmer
An.

00:52:44:21 – 00:52:47:31
Nicholas W. Fuller
Acoustic guitar. You can, like you can play some songs, right?

00:52:47:33 – 00:52:54:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I can play some songs. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I can, I can play some songs and I can dabble a bit as well.

00:52:54:57 – 00:52:59:52
Nicholas W. Fuller
Eric Clapton or John May or maybe not. Maybe not. Oh, you can play, you can play. Yeah.

00:52:59:55 – 00:53:27:46
Agent Palmer
I it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a fun hobby I, I don’t, I haven’t played with people in a while which is saying something but like 2019, 2020 I don’t know. It was, it was just after the first wave of the pandemic, I think, or maybe just before the pandemic, I can’t remember my my brain’s gone. But somewhere in that time, my buddy, Christopher Hughes Triforce died in 1984.

00:53:27:46 – 00:53:51:05
Agent Palmer
And I’m giving all of that for context. Wanted to do a birthday celebration, and so I took my stuff to his house and we streamed a concert where I played, and he sang live on the internet. Now, I don’t know if it’s still up on Twitch. I’m hoping it’s not. I don’t remember if he downloaded it and uploaded to YouTube.

00:53:51:05 – 00:54:12:55
Agent Palmer
I don’t think he has that kind of time, but that was the last time I played for people, and it was, don’t get me wrong, it was fun. But I for the most part, I put on headphones and I play along with the actual recordings. You know, but, I mean, like to finish the list. I still have, you know, one true acoustic.

00:54:12:55 – 00:54:36:22
Agent Palmer
I got two acoustic electrics, I got one, I have one electric guitar that works and one electric guitar that doesn’t that I can’t quite get rid of. And I bought myself two years ago an electric drum kit, because I haven’t had a drum kit since the one I had in my house in high school. And I was like, can I can I still do that?

00:54:36:23 – 00:55:01:35
Agent Palmer
Look, I’m not a great drummer, but it’s like, can I still dabble? And it was, you know, it’s kind of fun, right? So yes, all of that. But all of that is to say, it’s kind of like being the marketing guy that can talk tech to the developers. I still want to just talk to real musicians. Like, I have a friend who’s a true musician.

00:55:01:40 – 00:55:20:55
Agent Palmer
I will call him that. And he’s actually the guy that did my intro and outro music. And every time I talk to Hino, I like, I’m just in awe. Like I can talk to him. Like I think a layman, quote unquote would be like, what the what are you two talking about? Like, but we can go on for just talking about music.

00:55:21:00 – 00:55:44:08
Agent Palmer
But I’m also like, yeah, I know the song you’re talking about and I’ll never be able to play that. Like, I just, I get it, I, I’m never that’s that, you know, that’s the thing. But like, yeah, I’m, I think that one of the reasons I listen to so few podcasts now is because I listen to more music, and I think it’s better for me mentally.

00:55:44:08 – 00:56:04:40
Agent Palmer
And I, as much as I like supporting other podcasters and stuff, it’s like, it’s, mental health is important too. And I think that’s also kind of like a release. It’s an outlet, like picking up the guitar. The bass is, it’s an outlet that. Well, for better or worse, it’s more like masturbation because I’m not getting anything out of it.

00:56:04:40 – 00:56:19:48
Agent Palmer
Really? Like it’s just for me. Right? It’s not like when I sit down at a, keyboard to type out a blog post that I can share. I’m not doing that with any of these things. Yeah, but it’s still healthy. Like, it’s still like, oh, yeah, like, let’s do this.

00:56:19:48 – 00:56:25:44
Nicholas W. Fuller
I’m right. Good for the mind, good for the like, dexterity. Good for the soul. You know, I it’s good.

00:56:25:44 – 00:56:50:34
Agent Palmer
I think it’s probably better for the soul than it is for any of those other things. Because as much as I try to be an organized person and be like, oh, like I haven’t picked up the bass in like two weeks, or like I’ve been on a very big acoustic kicked or this, that, and the other thing, it’s like a lot of the time, especially if I’m rusty, I will play for much longer than I should.

00:56:50:38 – 00:57:00:14
Agent Palmer
And it’s like, all right, well, and there’s blisters again that, you know, maybe if I’d kept up with it would be calloused. But no, no, not not the case.

00:57:00:19 – 00:57:06:28
Nicholas W. Fuller
I, I mean, that sounds like that. That’s that’s a sign that you love it, you know, that’s that’s and that’s a good thing.

00:57:06:33 – 00:57:32:04
Agent Palmer
I mean, it is I will say I still have the, tenor saxophone from my, my, my high school days that I have not picked up in at least probably 20 years, I think, but I kind of like the electric guitar. That doesn’t work. I still don’t know if I can get rid of it. Yeah, I yeah, I, I don’t know.

00:57:32:04 – 00:57:33:56
Agent Palmer
Do you play.

00:57:34:00 – 00:57:51:47
Nicholas W. Fuller
So I can play like two songs on a guitar? I have an acoustic guitar that someday I need to, like, drag it out and tune it and, like, learn to play something new so I can impress my wife with him. You know, I played some drums, especially in high school for fun. And I really enjoy playing drums.

00:57:51:47 – 00:58:02:29
Nicholas W. Fuller
But at the same time, like, playing drums by yourself is like, ultimately unsatisfying. I think. You know, it doesn’t feel like a full song. If I said, like.

00:58:02:31 – 00:58:20:25
Agent Palmer
Look, all I’m saying is every single electronic kit when I look, I bought the cheapest one possible, but they all have an auxiliary and you can play with whoever you want, man. Like. And that’s just kind of the way, like, gone are the days when you have to sit there with like an actual CD player, headphones and like a real acoustic kit.

00:58:20:29 – 00:58:25:47
Agent Palmer
So I’m just saying, if you wanted, it’s the options for you.

00:58:25:51 – 00:58:31:26
Nicholas W. Fuller
If I could wave a magic wand, I would love to be able to just have, like, tons of talent on the piano.

00:58:31:31 – 00:58:55:15
Agent Palmer
Because you and me both, man, I just but I it’s the one instrument I wish I was, proficient at. Like, I can noodle because I have a little bit of an ear, but I have no idea what I took to music to, like semesters of music theory and remember, none of it. And it was all based on the the keyboard and the piano.

00:58:55:15 – 00:59:05:25
Agent Palmer
So, like, I wish. Yeah. I don’t know if maybe I had take it needed to take it more seriously. I don’t know, it’s just. Yeah. That one’s I think.

00:59:05:34 – 00:59:15:20
Nicholas W. Fuller
Because it’s so versatile. You could play any type of music. You could play in a in a group or an orchestra or solo and have a completely full sound. You know, it’s nice.

00:59:15:20 – 00:59:37:31
Agent Palmer
That’s I, that’s that’s kind of the reason that like, I will play guitar. Guitar? Like, cause bass is the same way, like, you have to play with music, like, or someone else like. It’s just not. There’s not that much even even when you do, even when you can play solo stuff on a bass, it’s like, not not really.

00:59:37:31 – 01:00:04:06
Agent Palmer
No, no, it’s. Yeah, it’s it’s fine, but no, I, man, I, I have been going through old cassettes and digitizing them because, like, I don’t want to, I have one. I literally bought a cassette tape so I could plug them into my system and record what was on them, because I don’t have a tape deck that works anymore, and the tapes themselves are going bad.

01:00:04:11 – 01:00:25:32
Agent Palmer
So I’ve now heard that the music that I did create way back when, oh wow. And I need to actually like, listen to it. Like, all I know is that I’ve transferred it now and I have digital copies of it, but like, is it good? Is it bad? I actually have to sit down and listen. And as we record this, I’ve just been digitizing.

01:00:25:32 – 01:00:42:47
Agent Palmer
So I it could be great. I don’t I don’t or like, I could like I could have been surprisingly good. I don’t know, I think I have the ability to surprise myself, but I, I just know that the waveform moved when I did taste it. That’s about all I know right now.

01:00:42:56 – 01:01:04:13
Nicholas W. Fuller
Nice, nice, nice follow up question for you. Behind you. You’ve got the football and you’ve got the Wheaties boxes. And I know that you’re a big, college football nut. Yeah. So if you could like, you know, for a week, be like a professional pianist and whatever kind of manner you want. Or you could be an all star college football player.

01:01:04:13 – 01:01:12:22
Nicholas W. Fuller
What would it be? If a genie in a bottle and you get to, like, live that life for a week, which life are you picking?

01:01:12:31 – 01:01:14:06
Agent Palmer
Do I have to worry about injury?

01:01:14:19 – 01:01:18:29
Nicholas W. Fuller
Because that’ll we’ll say, no, the piano will not hurt you.

01:01:18:36 – 01:01:45:50
Agent Palmer
All right. No, it’s going to be. It’s going to be athlete. Yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I don’t know if I take I might take baseball, okay. Which is my first love and probably my biggest, biggest thing. Or you know what. Yeah, probably it’s probably going to be an athletic pursuit at that point. Because I, I know what it’s like to play in front of people.

01:01:45:54 – 01:02:02:27
Agent Palmer
Even in college, I did a few battle of the bands in front of, like, you know, 100 people or whatever, like, you know, and, at a certain point, 100 people and 200 people or a thousand people like you don’t really. It doesn’t change that much. But I’ve never really played an athletic thing. I was a runner.

01:02:02:40 – 01:02:24:08
Agent Palmer
Right. How many people are coming to cross-country and track and like, no, no, no. Like at that point it was, you know, I got more audience playing in the marching band in high school than I did at any thing. So I think playing like at a D1 school for one Saturday afternoon or like the major leagues for even just a random Tuesday.

01:02:24:12 – 01:02:31:05
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Yeah, give me, give me that. Over, over the, the other, every, every time.

01:02:31:10 – 01:02:35:54
Nicholas W. Fuller
Nice. Let’s say I like your reasoning behind it to that solid reasoning.

01:02:35:59 – 01:02:37:52
Agent Palmer
I like to think I have some of it.

–End Transcription–

This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).