Episode 16 features Alex Fitzpatrick; zooarchaeologist, podcaster, blogger, and gamer. We discuss zooarchaeology, video games, wrestling, and much more.
Alex stopped by to tell me what a zooarchaeologist is, plus we discuss higher education, Star Wars, Wrestling, Storytelling, and Animal Crossing. During the episode we discuss:
- Studying Abroad
- Why not Dinosaurs?
- Education
- Accents
- Salad Dressing
- Fictional Animals
- PC Gaming
- Console Gaming
- Museums in Gaming
- Leveling Up vs. The Human Condition
- And much more.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:23:26
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com Dragon Quest. Your story on Netflix is an overlooked side quest with a great reward. Formula one drive to survive is all the reasons sports fans love sports, and it’s good to know some of you like me because there are plans for more solo episodes. This is The Palmer Files episode 16 with zoo archeologist Alex Fitzpatrick, a New Yorker studying abroad in the United Kingdom.
00:00:23:39 – 00:01:01:55
Agent Palmer
We’ll dig into the past, plus video games, wrestling and plenty in between. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:02:00 – 00:01:30:05
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 16th episode is Alex Fitzpatrick, zoo archeologist, podcaster, blogger, and gamer. Her show Akio Animals can be heard on the Archeology Podcast Network or wherever you are listening to the show, and you can find her blog at Animal archeology.com. She is a zoo archeologist and if you’re not sure what that is, we’ll cover that right out of the gate because I was wondering the same thing.
00:01:30:17 – 00:01:49:57
Agent Palmer
Also, she’s a PhD candidate, at least as of the recording of this. If you’re not listening to it on release and you’re listening years in the future, then perhaps she’s Doctor Alex by now. But at this moment in time, she’s working on her thesis, and we’ll get into that too. We also diverged into Star Wars video games and wrestling, which was not what I was expecting.
00:01:49:57 – 00:02:20:59
Agent Palmer
But I’m not disappointed. Alex was super fun to have on and a joy to converse with. I learned a little bit, had my old man persona confirmed a little bit, and had a whole lot of good conversation, which is what this show is genuinely about. Now, once more disclosure. We talk about Animal Crossing as this was recorded during the countdown to Animal Crossing New Horizons, which by now I’m sure Alex has put hours and hours into, as has everyone on all of my feeds.
00:02:21:04 – 00:02:44:47
Agent Palmer
All of them. So when I called it an addiction during the show, as you’ll hear, I’ve been vindicated in that diagnosis. So if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, you can tweet the show at the Palmer Files, and you can tweet Alex at archeology. Fitz. That’s rc h a e o l og y Fitzy.
00:02:44:51 – 00:03:17:36
Agent Palmer
You can hear her on arco animals wherever you are listening to the show or on the Ark pod net. That’s archeology podcast network. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And remember, all of these links and those mentioned in the show will be available in the show notes. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:03:17:40 – 00:03:28:49
Agent Palmer
Alex, let’s start with a very easy one. And one you probably get all the time for my audience. Zoo archeology is what I mean.
00:03:28:49 – 00:03:42:39
Alex Fitzpatrick
To be fair, I get that from, like, actual archeologists, so it’s completely fine. Zoo archeology is basically. I mean, yeah, it’s a study done animals for the the bare bones of it.
00:03:42:44 – 00:03:51:58
Agent Palmer
So is this in conjunction with everything else? You’re not just picking up bones, right? And looking at them, there’s got to be more to it. I mean.
00:03:51:58 – 00:04:07:58
Alex Fitzpatrick
It feels like that most of the time, to be honest. Okay, usually what happens is I’m sitting at my desk and then someone comes over with a big bag of dirty bones and then lays on my desk, and then they walk away. And then that’s like my next five months.
00:04:08:03 – 00:04:30:46
Agent Palmer
Okay, so, dum dum guy here, right? Like, and visually, the only thing I have for this kind of a dig is like the very beginning of Jurassic Park. But shouldn’t they, like, I don’t know, like, leave it in place, like, maybe like the. It can’t be helpful to be like, here’s some bones.
00:04:30:46 – 00:04:55:24
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah, that’s like the issue. And I talk about this a lot and it comes off as very bitter, but it’s because I am, animal bones are always kind of seen as, like, the second thing that’s kind of important. Not even the second thing. Like, maybe the third thing that’s important. Would archeology. Because, like, the first thing everyone cares about, I feel like, is actually, no, it’s more of a toss up between human remains and like, artifacts.
00:04:55:24 – 00:05:13:18
Alex Fitzpatrick
So like depending on what you have, like, those are like the key things when it comes to animal bones. They kind of get a bad rap for being like, oh, they’re just like garbage. So most of the time I usually just get bones, like, out of context. I mean, like my PhD right now, our bones.
00:05:13:18 – 00:05:26:51
Alex Fitzpatrick
I’ve actually excavated myself. So I do have the context for that, or mostly excavated myself. But yeah, most of the time they kind of send you a bag of bones and they’re like, this was found and blah, blah, blah. Just tell me what these bones are.
00:05:26:56 – 00:05:50:46
Agent Palmer
So is that, I mean, the process of like, just here’s a bone, tell me what it is like. That’s you said a bag of bones takes you like five months. Like, is there a process by which it’s like, oh, no, I’ve been doing this for long enough. I know what that is. Or is it like, time to go back to the drawing board?
00:05:50:51 – 00:06:15:33
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, that’s the problem. Is that, like, in a perfect world, every bone would be, like, complete and whole and, like, fine. And I’d be able to, like, I do. I’m off the top of my head. But of course we would. Archeology. You get, like, fragments. So it’s a lot of me taking like, maybe like the middle piece of a bone and then like, putting it up next to, like, an entire, like, horse bone that I have, in my reference collection and be like, that doesn’t look the same.
00:06:15:33 – 00:06:21:16
Alex Fitzpatrick
And then doing it again with something else. And I keep doing that forever until my brains kind of just pour out my ears.
00:06:21:23 – 00:06:35:18
Agent Palmer
So give me a big success, right? Have you been able to, like, change someone’s mind about something because of the animal bones, or are you still waiting for that to happen where you can be like, no, fuck you, this is what happened.
00:06:35:23 – 00:06:57:56
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, not really. The stakes of the stuff I’m working on are relatively low, but I’ve been I’ve been able to like, change their minds around. For example, one of the caves I’m working in, I was able to ID that, some of the, animals in there were, canids. So wolves are dogs, which is why it’s now called the Wolf Chamber.
00:06:58:01 – 00:07:00:29
Alex Fitzpatrick
So nice. That’s kind of cool. You know?
00:07:00:34 – 00:07:10:26
Agent Palmer
Let me let me go back to what I, what I’m going to guess is a general question. You get all the time, which is why didn’t you go with dinosaurs?
00:07:10:31 – 00:07:11:47
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean.
00:07:11:52 – 00:07:21:11
Agent Palmer
And is that a quest? Is that a question you get? I just can I can I just imagine, like, you know, if you’re going to do dead animals, why not do like the older dead animals?
00:07:21:14 – 00:07:44:17
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, it’s definitely like I think every archeologist in general gets that question of like, oh, do you dig dinosaurs? And the answer is like, no, at least not intentionally. You might do it on accident, but yeah, we’ll do archeology is a bit weirder. Especially because, like, I work in, later, prehistoric Britain, and, like, there’s a point where the crossover with extinct animals kind of gets like, they kind of overlap.
00:07:44:17 – 00:07:58:36
Alex Fitzpatrick
Like, there’s a couple of extinct animals that I work with in my assemblages. So, like, yeah, there’s a bit of an overlap between, like, paleontology and archeology. I didn’t do dinosaurs because, I don’t know, I just didn’t.
00:07:58:40 – 00:08:16:02
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah. I mean, it’s fair. I mean, you you. So I want to go into your education for a moment. Like, at what point do you start in just archeology and then, you know, veer off into a subset for the animals? Or do you start as a zoo archeologist to begin with?
00:08:16:05 – 00:08:37:36
Alex Fitzpatrick
Oh, gosh. No. So I did my undergrad at Hunter College in New York, and, I was a classical archeologist, so I did Greece and, Rome, Egypt, all that kind of stuff. I was really into the Hellenic period. And then I realized, like, maybe in my junior year, I was like, wait, I actually hate this.
00:08:37:36 – 00:08:59:33
Alex Fitzpatrick
Like, I hate I don’t want to ever look at, like, Greek vases again. I hate pottery, I hate all of this. This is the worst. And then I went and did my first excavation in, Scotland on the Orkney Islands. And I really like that. So I was like, oh, maybe I’m more into Viking Age stuff. So I went and did my master’s in archeological science.
00:08:59:38 – 00:09:16:00
Alex Fitzpatrick
I was like, oh, I should probably get more skills if I want to be an archeologist. And I was like, really into the more Viking Age stuff. And then I got into, after a while, I got really into the animal bones, and then I just kind of got stuck with the animal bones. Mostly because I. There’s no one else who does it in my department.
00:09:16:00 – 00:09:21:53
Alex Fitzpatrick
Really? Besides, like, one other, lecturer. So it felt cool to do that.
00:09:21:58 – 00:09:30:30
Agent Palmer
So, if you don’t mind me asking, what is your, You have to write a paper. A paper for a PhD, right?
00:09:30:30 – 00:09:32:17
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah, a big one.
00:09:32:22 – 00:09:34:50
Agent Palmer
So, what’s, what’s your topic?
00:09:34:54 – 00:09:52:13
Alex Fitzpatrick
I, looking at faunal remains from the Kosi caves, which are a series of later prehistoric caves on the coast of Scotland. And I’m specifically looking at the ways that they use these faunal remains for their ritual and funerary purposes.
00:09:52:17 – 00:10:26:10
Agent Palmer
Okay, I, I look at look, so I the dumbfounded look on my face is not because of what you just said. It’s more of an indictment on the higher education at large. Like I got a bachelor’s degree. I’m cool with that. Like, you know, but it always amazes me that these papers and these theses theses, I whatever from like the, like the higher up you go in like doctoral level are always so like pointed down the road.
00:10:26:15 – 00:10:48:24
Agent Palmer
Oh I want to write about these caves. Nope. You you can’t just write about these caves. All right. Can I write about this puddle in these caves? No. Can I write about this germ in this puddle? About these caves? All right, you’re getting warmer. Can I write about this Adam, on this German? It’s like it’s just so amazing to me, because then you’ve got to take whatever we’ve drilled down and, like, write a hundred pages.
00:10:48:30 – 00:10:53:32
Agent Palmer
Yeah, there’s not a hundred pages that exist in the world for this.
00:10:53:36 – 00:11:09:21
Alex Fitzpatrick
That’s like my issue right now, actually. I’ve had to, like, pare down a bit of my thesis because I was told I was getting a little too broad, and I was like, how do you write more than, like, three pages on this? Like, I’m going to hand in like a one page paper and feel like this is my thesis.
00:11:09:24 – 00:11:31:56
Alex Fitzpatrick
Like, technically this is about, you know, four years worth of work, but it’s it’s wild. And I don’t necessarily enjoy that. I’m very much not really into the whole like, your PhD has to be like 200 pages or whatever, but, yeah. Now it’s it’s a struggle that I still don’t really understand. And I’m in like the last six months of my PhD, so.
00:11:31:58 – 00:11:49:52
Agent Palmer
Okay. Well, let me change topics for a moment. You went to school in New York? Yeah. I’m talking to you via Skype. You’re in the United Kingdom? I grant you, I understand they got older shit over there, but, like, why do you jump the pond?
00:11:49:54 – 00:12:14:26
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, that’s actually that’s literally the reason why, but also just because, like, it’s weird. In, America, archeology is seen as an anthropology like subfield. And, I did like doing that. I actually double majored in anthropology, and, it was great, but, like, it wasn’t necessarily what I was looking at for archeology. I really wanted to be more hands on stuff like that.
00:12:14:26 – 00:12:30:52
Alex Fitzpatrick
And in the UK at least, there are a bit more, science based. So I moved to the UK to do archeological science, and then that turned into zoo archeology. And at that point I was like attached to a program here. So I kind of stayed here and, yeah.
00:12:30:57 – 00:12:38:32
Agent Palmer
So then I obviously have to ask, like, what are the biggest cultural differences living abroad, I guess.
00:12:38:36 – 00:12:55:38
Alex Fitzpatrick
Okay. They have like no salad dressing here it to the like. I’ve lived here almost five years now and it still boggles my mind. Like, I love a good ranch dressing. You know, you can’t get restaurant dressing here.
00:12:55:42 – 00:13:02:25
Agent Palmer
So I guess the what, what are they put on the show? They just need salad. It’s just. Just salad.
00:13:02:34 – 00:13:14:14
Alex Fitzpatrick
Vinaigrette stuff, which is like, okay, okay. I’m like, I’m a American. I want my ranch dressing or my blue cheese dressing. What am I supposed to dip my chicken wings in? Like, are you serious?
00:13:14:14 – 00:13:16:27
Agent Palmer
What can you dip your chicken wings in?
00:13:16:32 – 00:13:30:37
Alex Fitzpatrick
Sometimes you can get lucky and you can get blue cheese, but most of the time, it’s like just chili sauce or barbecue sauce or something. It’s. It’s, Don’t even get me started on the barbecue chicken. Status in this country. It’s very dire.
00:13:30:50 – 00:13:40:02
Agent Palmer
Now, now, talking to you, it doesn’t. I don’t hear an accent, but I presume Discernibly, that people tell you you have an accent.
00:13:40:02 – 00:14:06:34
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah. It’s, I think it depends, like, because you’re American, so, like, I prefer a bit more to American, but like, my, I live, with my partner, who’s British. And, like, when he speaks to me, he’s told me, like, in the past couple of years, that I sound more British, but, like, if I talk to my, my mum, who is a, New Yorker, like, that accent just brings out my, like, original Long Island accent, which is horrible, but.
00:14:06:39 – 00:14:14:17
Agent Palmer
That’s going to be, Okay. So so what you’re telling me is you can speak in tongues. That’s what I’m hearing, basically.
00:14:14:17 – 00:14:31:28
Alex Fitzpatrick
Like, I can kind of. I mean, people here still, like, if I talk to a stranger at, like, a shop or something, they can sometimes pinpoint it, be like, oh, what do you like, Canadian or something? But, yeah, I think for the most part, you’d have to talk to me for a very long time to realize it.
00:14:31:28 – 00:14:37:13
Alex Fitzpatrick
But to be honest, like, there’s a lot of Americans over here, especially in my department. So I think everyone just kind of knows.
00:14:37:22 – 00:14:58:21
Agent Palmer
Oh, okay. I mean, it’s if the United Kingdom, educationally, for archeology in general, is what that it is what it is, then it’s going to probably be the bigger melting pot, I would say, outside of what, like, the Middle East or something along those lines. And have you traveled around? Have you done digs?
00:14:58:35 – 00:15:11:25
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, I’m a bit boring when it comes to archeology because I mostly have done digs in Scotland. That’s like where all my research is. And to be honest, I don’t really do digs anymore because, it’s a lot work and I don’t like doing that.
00:15:11:39 – 00:15:14:35
Agent Palmer
So but there is a desk component. Yeah.
00:15:14:35 – 00:15:35:38
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean like the, there’s like a saying where like, you know, you only spend 10% of your time digging an archeology. And it’s kind of true, depending on what you actually do in archeology. So someone who’s like a specialist with bones, most of the time I’m working in the lab or like, if there’s no lab space on my desk, which happens sometimes.
00:15:35:43 – 00:15:46:41
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, so I learned a little bit about, I want to say, corporate archeology. That’s not quite the right thing, but when I, when I talked to Tristan about before, they can build a.
00:15:46:41 – 00:15:48:02
Alex Fitzpatrick
Building for commercial archeology.
00:15:48:04 – 00:15:51:43
Agent Palmer
They do a dig. Yeah. Commercial. Not corporate. It’s still they.
00:15:51:52 – 00:15:53:16
Alex Fitzpatrick
Want to say it’s fine.
00:15:53:20 – 00:15:56:14
Agent Palmer
So is that partly where a good chunk of your work comes from?
00:15:56:18 – 00:16:17:53
Alex Fitzpatrick
Most of my work is actually, big academic research stuff, but I know a lot of others do. Archeologist who become more freelance and end up doing a lot of CRM work like that. Just because not every CRM group, has, fossil bone specialists. So it’s like it’s not bad money from I understand, I don’t I don’t do that now.
00:16:17:53 – 00:16:19:22
Alex Fitzpatrick
I’m too busy.
00:16:19:27 – 00:16:47:37
Agent Palmer
All right. So this is, this is what I want to ask then. Is it in your specialized profession? Is it like, maybe like a D&D campaign where, like, you should have a cleric with you? There should be someone who folk like, maybe even if it’s not an actual zoo archeologist, like someone who specializes in animals. When people are digging, like when you’re putting together this team or is it?
00:16:47:37 – 00:16:53:46
Agent Palmer
Nah, forget about it. And then they come across animal bones and like, oh, call them up.
00:16:53:51 – 00:17:18:37
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, like, in a perfect world, every excavation should probably have a specialists of different types. So like, you know, follow bone specialists, a human bone specialist, someone who specializes in, like, ceramics or whatever, but like, you know, nothing’s perfect. You’re never going to have that. All those people, I mean, like my the last time I went digging, I was the only follow bone specialist, but we didn’t have a human bone specialist.
00:17:18:42 – 00:17:37:09
Alex Fitzpatrick
And like, I can, for the most part, I can tell the difference between a human bone and a, animal bone. But if it’s like a really small fragment, I’m just like, don’t know what to tell you. So it was kind of a pain. I’d have to go and actually like, FaceTime with some colleagues of mine to be, like, holding up bones, being like, is this a human bone?
00:17:37:09 – 00:17:39:39
Alex Fitzpatrick
I can’t tell.
00:17:39:44 – 00:17:47:23
Agent Palmer
You’re the first person within the archeology podcast network that I’ve had on outside of Tristan.
00:17:47:28 – 00:17:48:06
Alex Fitzpatrick
So the only good.
00:17:48:06 – 00:18:06:09
Agent Palmer
Thing I didn’t think and well, I didn’t I didn’t think it was right to ask him this question, but like, do you your network in the network intrigues me on so many levels, but mainly because it’s, it’s more of looking you’re looking for more of a professional audience.
00:18:06:14 – 00:18:06:50
Alex Fitzpatrick
00:18:06:55 – 00:18:33:46
Agent Palmer
And I guess real quick, I, I will do this for those of you who don’t know, the Archeology Podcast Network was created by Tristan and Chris five years ago, I think at this point. And they brought together, bunch of shows and it’s member supported, but you can still listen to all the shows, because they’re all widely available and it’s aimed at the industry of archeology.
00:18:34:00 – 00:18:55:52
Agent Palmer
And, you know, a lot of the shows like, you know, Alex, your show is very approachable to people that aren’t within the industry. So it’s kind of unique to me at least. Because I’ve seen other networks that are just like, hey, here’s a bunch of people, a bunch of different podcasts. Let’s throw them together. This one’s, you know, got a mission.
00:18:55:57 – 00:19:03:24
Agent Palmer
It’s to teach and to network. Have you have you been able to network since you launched your show?
00:19:03:32 – 00:19:24:09
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, yeah, I’ve I’ve gotten a lot of, you know, opportunities to the show, speak engagements, things like that. I’m actually I’ve been surprised because I get, like, I don’t want to call it fan mail because I’m not that important or cool, but, like, I get messages from, like, people who do listen to the podcast and most of them are not archeologists at all.
00:19:24:09 – 00:19:48:54
Alex Fitzpatrick
They’re just people who just start listening, I guess, because they’re into dead animals or whatever. And it’s nice because that’s really the important thing, because Chris actually approached me and asked if, like, oh, I heard you on a different podcast, and thought you were funny and think that you could host your own podcast. And I was like, okay, well, I definitely want it to be approachable because, like, otherwise no one’s going to listen to it.
00:19:48:54 – 00:20:00:50
Alex Fitzpatrick
And also, I don’t want to talk like that because I really like academic jargon and stuff. I really hate writing. I rather just kind of, you know, talk like a normal human being.
00:20:00:55 – 00:20:15:10
Agent Palmer
Well, and your show has covered a lot of things. And it’s been very approachable. I one of the things I had to ask you was your favorite fictional animal?
00:20:15:15 – 00:20:16:02
Alex Fitzpatrick
00:20:16:07 – 00:20:25:03
Agent Palmer
I don’t care if it’s movie. Video game. Like, I’m not book whatever, but, like, give me your favorite fictional animal.
00:20:25:08 – 00:20:45:02
Alex Fitzpatrick
I love porgs. I have, right now, I’m recording in my office, and I have a stuffed porg, staring at me from the corner of the room. When Last Jedi, I came out and I saw Porgs. I lost my mind. And, the amount of porg related things I’ve gotten from friends and family since then has been enormous.
00:20:45:02 – 00:20:46:51
Alex Fitzpatrick
And that’s all I care about.
00:20:46:55 – 00:20:49:51
Agent Palmer
You are not the only person who lost their mind when.
00:20:49:55 – 00:20:51:41
Alex Fitzpatrick
They’re great, I love it.
00:20:51:46 – 00:20:56:22
Agent Palmer
I mean, are you, are you still upset with Chewie or have you come to terms?
00:20:56:26 – 00:21:06:14
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, you know, it’s just the way of things, like, I get it, you know? I mean, I eat, I eat meat, too, so I guess. Okay.
00:21:06:28 – 00:21:21:59
Agent Palmer
All right. Is there, and I know you kind of covered this on an episode, but is there enough historical archeology? You know, within the Star Wars universe or any cinematic universe for that matter?
00:21:21:59 – 00:21:41:57
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, the Star Wars one? For those of people who are listening and never listening to my podcast, we do have an entire episode dedicated to Star Wars archeology, because, if I didn’t get that off my chest, I would have exploded. Because that’s all I think about. All the time. So like a little bit of backstory in that I was a very big fan of the expanding universe.
00:21:41:57 – 00:21:49:47
Alex Fitzpatrick
I have like three encyclopedias in my house, just about the expanding universe of Star Wars. It means a lot to me.
00:21:49:52 – 00:21:52:12
Agent Palmer
And you’ve only highlighted the animal stuff. Yeah.
00:21:52:12 – 00:22:05:33
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, I also like, you know, history is so important to the Star Wars universe, so there’s loads to talk about when it comes to archeology. I mean, archeologists are canon in the universe as well for both Sith and Jedi. So.
00:22:05:38 – 00:22:35:30
Agent Palmer
So does that mean that you are looking at, say, Rise of Skywalker with a different eye when they go back to the remains of a Death Star? Because like, that would be something that would be like the font. I mean, to be fair, that would be the find of the like of the millennium, like, oh my God, we’ve got the remnants of the death Star.
00:22:35:34 – 00:23:05:56
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, the thing about archeology and Star Wars is it’s really interesting because obviously you have those like big set pieces. And it’s something I liked about the, sequel trilogy. Is them using the remains of, you know, 8080s and like, the Death Star and stuff as set pieces. I always find that really interesting. But also because in Star Wars, the, the past can talk back to you or, you know, the dead speaks, like, you can, like, watch stuff like Holocron and Force Ghost.
00:23:05:56 – 00:23:16:56
Alex Fitzpatrick
You can literally like, like, interact with the past. So I always I’m really interested in that on a theoretical basis for archeology. But yeah, also the set pieces are really cool. So.
00:23:17:01 – 00:23:26:46
Agent Palmer
So you’re a big Star Wars fan, are there other universe cinematic book whatever that you also kind of apply that fandom to?
00:23:26:51 – 00:23:51:22
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, a lot probably like I find I do this a lot when I blog about archeology on my, my website, which I, I really I started my blog to be like, oh, I’m going to only talk about like guides to ID animal remains and really academic stuff. And all of a sudden I was like, I’m going to write all about the archeology of the Dragon Age video games, because whatever, or Skyrim or something like just because, like that’s fun.
00:23:51:22 – 00:23:53:53
Alex Fitzpatrick
And also, you know, why not?
00:23:53:58 – 00:24:23:10
Agent Palmer
I mean, I get the feeling people will generally underst and more of what you’re talking about in relationship to Skyrim. Yeah, Star Wars whatever, than just in general. Like you’re this 2000 year old bone of a canine and like what? Know this old dragon from the fourth dungeon of, oh, I’m I’m with you. Like, I just it just makes it’s so much more relatable to people.
00:24:23:15 – 00:24:23:31
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:24:23:31 – 00:24:32:17
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, that’s another reason why I do it, other than the fact that, like, I also spend like hundreds of hours on these video games, so I might as well put that show art.
00:24:32:22 – 00:24:49:21
Agent Palmer
But are you playing these video games differently? I mean, like, I mean, you know, just in comparison, right? Like I maybe I’ll level maybe I’ll do this, but like, you’re kind of coming at it from a different angle. So you’ve got to spend, I don’t know, more time in that dungeon or whatever.
00:24:49:21 – 00:25:06:14
Alex Fitzpatrick
My partner makes fun of me because I have this very bad habit of if I’m watching him play a video game or we’re watching TV together and there’s remains on, it would be like that skeleton wouldn’t be holding, like holding itself together like that. It would very decay the end. There would be no, it would be disarticulated. What are you talking about?
00:25:06:14 – 00:25:24:51
Alex Fitzpatrick
And he’s like, Alex, please shut up. Please shut up. But like, yeah. No, I do like, look at things a bit more critically. Like I just finished my first ever playthrough of The Witcher three. And I really enjoyed how that’s basically like a forensic archeology game in terms of using your what your senses to, like, figure out things that happened.
00:25:24:56 – 00:25:41:22
Alex Fitzpatrick
And I really enjoyed that. And I probably spent way more time than anyone else did using my winter senses to figure everything out because I was like, oh yeah, like when, girl’s like, yeah. He was clearly, ripped apart by whatever I’m like. I would have figured that out too.
00:25:41:26 – 00:26:12:42
Agent Palmer
I will say, I’m kind of like you for sports. In a very different way. My partner. I’m slowly getting her involved in watching sports, and we’ll watch a baseball game, and I’ll be like, you know, that guy was on a team 15 years ago when this happened. Then, like, pause, pause, pause. Something happens in the game and then, like, the actual commentator will start to tell that story.
00:26:12:42 – 00:26:30:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So I’ve been, clairvoyant. Not the right word. I feel like it’s just like, oh, like that’s a story that follows this player. It happens. But like, she’s never followed baseball or basketball or whatever. So I have all these random stories from all these random sports.
00:26:30:21 – 00:26:31:42
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Yeah, I’m like that too.
00:26:31:42 – 00:26:50:08
Agent Palmer
And I’m just like, yeah, this this happened. This is the thing. She’s like, how do you know what they’re going to say? And it’s like, well, I mean, I remember, I mean, I’m not getting a doctorate in sports, but I remember things.
00:26:50:17 – 00:27:14:02
Alex Fitzpatrick
No, I totally get that. Like, I’ve also been like that with wrestling because I’ve got my partner into professional wrestling finally. So I do a lot of like, okay, so this guy, he used to be the WWE, Heavyweight champion for just explaining who everyone is, what she actually needs because his whole thing is like, I’m not going to watch, like, you know, 25 years worth of wrestling to know everyone’s backstory.
00:27:14:06 – 00:27:43:41
Agent Palmer
So I, I was never into wrestling growing, but in college and I don’t know why, but in college, every body in like my section of my dorm watched wrestling. And it was during the Attitude ERA, which probably helped because, I mean, it was just I say this because I’ve tried to tune in recently, but like in the Attitude ERA, it felt like it was just superstar after superstar after superstar.
00:27:43:43 – 00:28:07:26
Agent Palmer
There, there was no like B level. And if there was a B level, there were no C’s like that, like the lower levels, but like it was just, you know, the rock was at his height. Jericho was on his way up, Austin was still around. Undertaker was not dad bod. Undertaker. I don’t I don’t know, you know, Kane was still masked.
00:28:07:31 – 00:28:33:23
Agent Palmer
The big show was still like, there was just so many people and it was funny because as someone who had never watched it. Yeah, it only takes like two episodes for you to get hooked on the storyline. So that’s the one thing that they do so well. It’s like, oh yeah, you might be lost the first time you watch SmackDown, but the second time you watch it, you’re like, all right, no, that guy hates that guy.
00:28:33:23 – 00:28:48:31
Agent Palmer
And that guy’s really pissed at that guy for some reason. But that guy didn’t know it yet. And it’s just. All right. That’s fair. And, I mean, you’ve been watching it for, like, have you seen repeated storylines or are the writers still doing well? I mean.
00:28:48:34 – 00:29:17:01
Alex Fitzpatrick
I feel like I always say this kind of joking, but also kind of serious. Wrestling is the purest form of storytelling. Like you said, it’s really easy to catch on because it really just boils down to that guy bad, that guy good. They wrestle like literally bad shit. Like, regardless of, like, the extra stuff, that they throw in, you know, whether it’s like the Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, case of who was the father of that, kid Dominik, which is something that sticks to my brain forever.
00:29:17:06 – 00:29:27:36
Alex Fitzpatrick
Like, it’s always just like one’s a heel, one’s a face, they’re gonna fight. And it’s really easy and approachable to get into that. And it’s it’s like. Like I said, purest form of storytelling. Truly.
00:29:27:48 – 00:30:01:42
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. I do have, because of when I was in college. I still have the September 13th, 2001 SmackDown. Tape. Oh, wow. Because it was I look, first of all, don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t like the hugest fan. Like, we all watched it, but I wasn’t like the hugest fan. And I think maybe because I was a communications major, I was going to try and write a paper about it, but I was like, all right, well, everything else in the US was canceled.
00:30:01:42 – 00:30:23:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And it was like SmackDown! Still happening live Thursday night. It’s like, all right, well, this is going to be something to see. And I haven’t like rewatched it or anything. And I’m sure it’s available on YouTube now, so I don’t even need the tape. But it was just cathartic, I guess, to see, like, we can have a good time again.
00:30:23:42 – 00:30:45:26
Agent Palmer
It was just it was the same as when baseball season pick back up and football season like, it was just like, we can go back to our lives again. But just something about that was it was very weird, too, because, like and it shows to the very good storytelling of wrestling because they could put it on pause and pick it up on Monday.
00:30:45:26 – 00:30:45:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:30:45:35 – 00:30:46:03
Alex Fitzpatrick
Exactly.
00:30:46:05 – 00:31:10:50
Agent Palmer
Like just. All right. This is going to be a catharsis episode. We’re going to have a little bit of wrestling, but everybody’s just going to parade down and talk to the nation, and then that’s it. And that’s all that episode really was. And it was odd, but we all watched it. Yeah, it was just as riveting. Like, I okay, so we’ve covered Star Wars, covered wrestling.
00:31:11:01 – 00:31:14:56
Agent Palmer
We talked a little bit about video games. Like what are the big video games for you?
00:31:15:00 – 00:31:22:40
Alex Fitzpatrick
Right now, first of all, which is the greatest console of all time? As all I care about now, it’s,
00:31:22:44 – 00:31:26:38
Agent Palmer
Okay, okay. Hold on, hold on, hold on before switch. Yeah. What was it?
00:31:26:47 – 00:31:51:31
Alex Fitzpatrick
Actually, mostly just PC. I really was mostly a gamer. I had the all the PlayStations growing up, like, I actually really didn’t get into Nintendo till maybe, I don’t know, six years ago. I just didn’t necessarily have around my house. We’re a very big Lara Croft family and stuff like that. The Star Wars games, all the the ones on PlayStation.
00:31:51:36 – 00:31:58:30
Alex Fitzpatrick
I was also really into, like, point and click games. So like the LucasArts games and stuff like that.
00:31:58:35 – 00:31:59:49
Agent Palmer
Okay. Missed.
00:31:59:54 – 00:32:09:34
Alex Fitzpatrick
Oh yeah. Really, I don’t, I think I, I don’t think I’ve ever finished Myst because it’s very hard for my like, tiny brain, but I liked it anyway.
00:32:09:39 – 00:32:29:22
Agent Palmer
Okay. I don’t to be fair, I never finished it either. I don’t even think I got past the first, like, whatever. I was just like, I mean, I see what this is doing, but I don’t, I think, so when Myst came out, I think I was like, I’m just going to go back to what at the time was front page baseball, which I don’t even remember how to play.
00:32:29:22 – 00:32:43:24
Agent Palmer
I just remember the name, like, I, I know you didn’t swing necessarily, like, it wasn’t like a, it was more of a simulator than a simulation. But to that end, PC gaming civilization.
00:32:43:29 – 00:33:05:14
Alex Fitzpatrick
I only got into Civ like a couple years ago, and, and now I’m really into it. Although I finally switched to, Civ six after playing survive for about 1000 hours, and I’m not used to it, I am a very, peace loving person. I can’t, be asked to do any of the war stuff, but for Civ six, you always have to fight.
00:33:05:14 – 00:33:15:01
Alex Fitzpatrick
And I’m like, guys, come down. I don’t want to fight because I’m not to put effort into that. Also, why does like builders go after three uses? I hate that are you?
00:33:15:06 – 00:33:17:52
Agent Palmer
Who do you? Who do you play as?
00:33:17:57 – 00:33:43:58
Alex Fitzpatrick
Depends. I’m a very. I have a lot of like, a lot of anxiety when it comes to achievements for some reason. So like when I used to play Sims five on my computer, I wanted to get all the achievements. So I played through every single ruler. I think it just depends on my mood, what I want to play as like, usually if I play with some friends online, I always end up being America because I’m usually the only American.
00:33:44:03 – 00:33:47:05
Alex Fitzpatrick
But, I mean, it just depends on how I’m feeling.
00:33:47:10 – 00:33:58:32
Agent Palmer
I will give you the what makes me the grandfather in this conversation. I don’t think I’ve played anything passive to.
00:33:58:37 – 00:34:00:05
Alex Fitzpatrick
No offense, but yeah.
00:34:00:10 – 00:34:20:33
Agent Palmer
I’ve played Civ one a million times. In fact, I probably played it once in the last year. But like, I don’t know, I, I know it was great for gaming and whatever when they went to like The Sims two, three and four and they have the engine, you know, the better visual engines. But I just like my blinking blocks.
00:34:20:33 – 00:34:27:37
Agent Palmer
That’s a city. That’s a, that’s a unit like that’s you know, I was cool with that. I still am. That’s fine.
00:34:27:39 – 00:34:45:26
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, to be fair, that’s how I feel about like SimCity. I for some reason, I played like the like the original SimCity and like SimCity to a lot. So I haven’t been able to get into like newer SimCity types or like, you know, was it Cities Skylines, whatever that other series is? It’s kind of similar. It’s just too much for me.
00:34:45:26 – 00:34:51:23
Alex Fitzpatrick
I need, I need to have, like, I used to play SIM Town like that, that one all the time. For some reason I remember.
00:34:51:31 – 00:35:10:55
Agent Palmer
So that was that was in the era of we’re going to make a sim. Everything. There was SIM tower, there’s SIM man. I’m sorry. Yeah, SIM sim airport, there was a SIM health care, which I was like, what? I thought they had went too far with that one. So what we’re learning is that I’m the dinosaur.
00:35:10:59 – 00:35:11:44
Alex Fitzpatrick
A bit.
00:35:11:50 – 00:35:12:28
Agent Palmer
In this. Yeah.
00:35:12:37 – 00:35:13:21
Alex Fitzpatrick
No. Yeah. It’s.
00:35:13:23 – 00:35:17:44
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, it’s fine, it’s fine. I still play quake. The first one.
00:35:17:44 – 00:35:20:10
Alex Fitzpatrick
Oh, gosh. Now you sound like my dad.
00:35:20:15 – 00:35:20:38
Agent Palmer
Oh, come.
00:35:20:38 – 00:35:33:42
Alex Fitzpatrick
On, I know, to be fair. Okay. My dad, I’ve tried to get my dad into more recent video games, but the only games he plays is he plays quake. He plays doom, and he plays Half-Life two. That’s it. Those are the only games you place, okay?
00:35:33:42 – 00:36:00:20
Agent Palmer
I mean, I’m still waiting for, like, a good Warcraft two. Tides of Darkness. Like remake. And I feel like this is where I became a grandfather in gaming and avoided becoming like a part of the mainstream is. I was never into the World of Warcraft. When it went away from being a real time strategy game was when I was like, I’m done with it.
00:36:00:25 – 00:36:23:19
Agent Palmer
And I feel like a lot of like I kind of enjoyed Diablo. Yeah. I’ve never played beyond the first one though. So like I really kind of avoided the wow stuff. Yeah. On such a level that like everything else that came after it that was like based on Wow or the engine or whatever, I’m like, I don’t know about this.
00:36:23:20 – 00:36:23:36
Agent Palmer
I mean.
00:36:23:36 – 00:36:31:19
Alex Fitzpatrick
I never really got into those kind of games either, but mostly just played like Star Wars games.
00:36:31:24 – 00:36:39:27
Agent Palmer
All right. So hold on, I want to. So we talked about the PC stuff, but then you got into switch last.
00:36:39:31 – 00:36:41:00
Alex Fitzpatrick
What’s the best.
00:36:41:05 – 00:36:44:11
Agent Palmer
What was the game like? What was the game that got you into on to.
00:36:44:12 – 00:36:52:32
Alex Fitzpatrick
Actually I bought when the switch came out because I am the world’s greatest partner. I bought my partner a switch like, right when it came out.
00:36:52:37 – 00:36:55:00
Agent Palmer
And why did he want it?
00:36:55:05 – 00:37:07:28
Alex Fitzpatrick
Because, I mean, he was he’s a been a lifelong Nintendo fan, so, like, I knew he could be into it regardless. But also like breath of the wild was out and that was like the big the big, hook for a lot of people. So I bought it for him.
00:37:07:33 – 00:37:09:26
Agent Palmer
And have you played breath of the wild?
00:37:09:26 – 00:37:26:57
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yes. Because of course, what happens is that I bought him the switch and he played the switch, but I also play the switch just as much. And then I ended up buying a Switch Lite, for myself, because I need a I need my own. But I play but for the wild, which is actually the first and only, Zelda game I’ve ever played in my life.
00:37:27:01 – 00:37:51:32
Agent Palmer
Listen, I’m a big proponent of Wind Waker because it’s, I don’t know, I love the idea of Wind Waker, of describing Wind Waker as just a cartoon you can play. And I understand breath of the wild, you know? Look, it’s young. It’s baby link, all right, baby link. That’s all I needed. It it doesn’t get any better than that.
00:37:51:43 – 00:38:00:32
Agent Palmer
So, at some point. Right, we will be hearing the zu archeology of breath of the wild. Right? Or you’ve already done it. And I’m missing.
00:38:00:32 – 00:38:09:16
Alex Fitzpatrick
Oh, I haven’t done it yet, because we lent the game to our friend who has not given it back. So I haven’t played it since, around the time it first came out.
00:38:09:21 – 00:38:11:28
Agent Palmer
Okay. But you will. I mean, that’s a thing you.
00:38:11:28 – 00:38:33:59
Alex Fitzpatrick
Will be doing. Yeah, definitely. I mean, like like, whatever I’m playing at the moment basically dictates what I end up writing about. So, like, right now, I’ve been probably putting most of my time to Stardew Valley, because I need something kind of chill to, like, relax, too, after, like, doing a bunch of work and stuff. So, like, I have something, that I’m actually writing right now.
00:38:34:04 – 00:38:45:17
Alex Fitzpatrick
Maybe. Or maybe not for publication about, in general video games and archeology, but stuff like Stardew Valley and Animal Crossing that use archeology as like a game mechanic.
00:38:45:22 – 00:38:49:14
Agent Palmer
Hold on. Real quick. Do you play Animal Crossing?
00:38:49:27 – 00:38:50:21
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah.
00:38:50:26 – 00:39:06:12
Agent Palmer
What? Look. All right, there’s a I. Okay, so I told you we all watched wrestling during the Attitude ERA. Yeah, but we were also all very addicted to the original animal, which very, it was like two.
00:39:06:14 – 00:39:06:30
Alex Fitzpatrick
Extreme.
00:39:06:37 – 00:39:10:38
Agent Palmer
Cocaine on campus. Like. Like there was Animal Crossing here.
00:39:10:38 – 00:39:21:29
Alex Fitzpatrick
And then, like, if you walk, like, maybe like two football fields down, that’s where, like, attitude. Our wrestling is like, those are completely different, like the duality of man, truly.
00:39:21:34 – 00:39:30:57
Agent Palmer
But we were all addicted to it on such a level that like, like we we like, like by the time we all graduated, right?
00:39:30:57 – 00:39:31:46
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah.
00:39:31:51 – 00:39:54:20
Agent Palmer
And the, the group of friends I had was probably a three year span, so like, I was the first to graduate. Yeah. And there were two more graduating classes that we all hung out with. By the time I graduated, we had all gotten away from Animal Crossing. And I know when City Folk came out, everybody in the group bought it, but we didn’t get as addicted.
00:39:54:20 – 00:40:19:28
Agent Palmer
And maybe it’s because you need to be in that college setting where it’s like, oh no, we’re right. Like, you just play all the time. And now, like as we record this, the new Animal Crossing is about to drop and I’m like, calling my friends. Be like, stay away, don’t get addicted. You you you you dropped the habit once.
00:40:19:28 – 00:40:21:58
Agent Palmer
You don’t need to do this again.
00:40:22:03 – 00:40:38:21
Alex Fitzpatrick
Oh, I already have it preordered. Of course I do. I’m so excited to quit my PhD so I can only play Animal Crossing for the rest of my life. Like when we get the matrix technology, I’m going to upload my consciousness into Animal Crossing. And then just like my my real human body, wither away.
00:40:38:32 – 00:40:44:16
Agent Palmer
Wait. Hold the hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. That’s the game you choose. Yeah. Really.
00:40:44:21 – 00:40:53:28
Alex Fitzpatrick
It’s it’s very nice. And like, you know, you shake a bunch of trees and you get fruit, and then you sell the fruit for money. I mean, what more can you want?
00:40:53:33 – 00:41:00:20
Agent Palmer
I mean, but porgs are canon. You could go into a Star Wars game.
00:41:00:25 – 00:41:03:56
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah, but like, then you had to, like, fight.
00:41:04:00 – 00:41:14:30
Agent Palmer
You don’t have to fight. That. How many sand people have we really seen? Right. Like there’s tons of them that are just peaceful.
00:41:14:35 – 00:41:17:12
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I guess, but, like, I don’t know, I want to.
00:41:17:26 – 00:41:19:05
Agent Palmer
You can hang out with the walks.
00:41:19:10 – 00:41:19:41
Alex Fitzpatrick
True.
00:41:19:43 – 00:41:22:34
Agent Palmer
You could be in EA walk. Like, how.
00:41:22:34 – 00:41:28:48
Alex Fitzpatrick
About if I want to be you walk. I love the Ewoks. Okay, I have a wicked, doll. When I was, really young.
00:41:28:53 – 00:41:56:35
Agent Palmer
Okay, I’m just saying, there are, because here’s, and I obviously I didn’t play much of the city one, but, like, there are bigger spaces, like Animal Crossing as a game in a world is fairly small by comparison to almost every other game. We have mentioned. So like, there’s not really like, you know, I don’t know I don’t know how it works in a matrix style.
00:41:56:35 – 00:41:58:48
Agent Palmer
Like, can you go to your friend’s town?
00:41:58:55 – 00:42:16:13
Alex Fitzpatrick
I don’t care, we so I’m happy to stay with my own, like especially because the new game is on an island and stuff. And like, what other game can you have a dog? Play music every Saturday and do a little acoustic set? Exactly.
00:42:16:18 – 00:42:17:46
Agent Palmer
A K.K. slider.
00:42:17:51 – 00:42:20:19
Alex Fitzpatrick
Checkpoint. Atheists.
00:42:20:24 – 00:42:42:35
Agent Palmer
I mean, I, I will say, one of the reasons that we were so addicted to the game was because everybody wanted to keep their town clean, and nobody wanted to wait for anything. So we were time jumping and then running around and picking up the weeds that were there. Yeah. Problem with time jumps. It was a problem.
00:42:42:35 – 00:42:46:52
Agent Palmer
Like, I feel like that game would have not been nearly as addicting if you couldn’t change the clock.
00:42:46:59 – 00:42:53:42
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, I’m a good person who has never done the time travel stuff. I’m very good. No, no, I’m very good.
00:42:53:47 – 00:42:58:30
Agent Palmer
Because I cannot. But I’m. You are the what? Yeah. Like I don’t understand. Like, this is.
00:42:58:30 – 00:43:09:55
Alex Fitzpatrick
I’m the only good, Animal Crossing player in the world. I don’t I because I don’t I, I, I, I’m a adult woman. I didn’t want to get yelled at by mysterious any.
00:43:10:00 – 00:43:11:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but that’s only if something happens.
00:43:11:55 – 00:43:13:33
Alex Fitzpatrick
But like, I felt bad.
00:43:13:38 – 00:43:15:11
Agent Palmer
I mean, he’s out of a job now.
00:43:15:11 – 00:43:18:24
Alex Fitzpatrick
Oh, actually, I forgot. I think he has a new job.
00:43:18:29 – 00:43:25:41
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think I read that somewhere, too, but, like, he’s not Mr. Ricchetti. He’s still Mr. Ricchetti. But he doesn’t yell at you for, you know.
00:43:25:46 – 00:43:26:21
Alex Fitzpatrick
But my.
00:43:26:26 – 00:43:26:51
Agent Palmer
I’m.
00:43:26:51 – 00:43:36:50
Alex Fitzpatrick
Just gonna say my counterpoint, though, for wanting to upload my consciousness into this game is that it does have a working museum, and I could go excavate for stuff all the time.
00:43:36:55 – 00:43:58:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but at a certain point, the museum’s full. Like, at least in Star Wars, if you if you if you finished excavating on Tattoo Wien, you could go to Hoth and then you could finish there and go somewhere like there are more to many, many worlds, at least in Animal Crossing. Like when you fill up the museum, you fill up the museum, but.
00:43:58:22 – 00:44:08:47
Alex Fitzpatrick
Also excavating so much easier. Animal crossing, you just kind of like dig a hole and it’s great. I wish all excavation was like that. And then you pull up like the little fossil thing, and then it plays that music and you go.
00:44:08:52 – 00:44:21:49
Agent Palmer
But, but here’s the problem. We would be sending it. We would be sending that fossil off to you. Right. Like I said, that’s how this works, right? Like you would be the museum we send it off to. Yeah. So we can get it identified.
00:44:21:49 – 00:44:37:06
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah. And then it’s super easy. And then like, it’s perfectly clean automatically and it goes on display. It’s like the ideal version of working in a museum. I don’t understand why you’re not getting this.
00:44:37:11 – 00:44:43:38
Agent Palmer
All right. Fine. I mean, as simulations go, I mean, civilization can’t be that bad either. You get to be a dictator.
00:44:43:39 – 00:44:47:08
Alex Fitzpatrick
I don’t want to do more of this stuff, though. It’s so annoying. I have to figure out you.
00:44:47:08 – 00:44:51:58
Agent Palmer
Don’t have to do more stuff. Just. Just give them peace every time.
00:44:52:03 – 00:45:15:33
Alex Fitzpatrick
In Civ six, they basically make you have to do more stuff. It’s so annoying and it just drives me nuts. Like I hate it. I don’t want to fight any of these people. I just want to build up all my wonders and, you know, perfectly create like a nice. Like I always try to get the Great Wall because I like the, satisfaction of having, like, your whole area kind of cordoned off like that.
00:45:15:38 – 00:45:21:09
Agent Palmer
What about SimCity? Wouldn’t that be a nice in-between between Civ and, Animal Crossing?
00:45:21:16 – 00:45:35:17
Alex Fitzpatrick
Probably. But what I just realized is, even though I played that game a lot, I’ve never really played it properly. I kind of just always wanted to make things like like how most people play like Rollercoaster tycoon, where you just kind of make rollercoasters to kill people.
00:45:35:21 – 00:45:36:06
Agent Palmer
Oh.
00:45:36:11 – 00:45:40:47
Alex Fitzpatrick
Okay. Yeah, I’m not really. I’m more of a destroyer rather than a creator.
00:45:40:56 – 00:45:43:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but I mean, you’re not living in the town in this.
00:45:43:35 – 00:45:44:31
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah, I guess so.
00:45:44:44 – 00:45:54:17
Agent Palmer
So I mean, you’re just a benevolent overlord who’s making giving people, like, here’s a tornado. Here’s a fire, here’s a giant monster. Here’s an alien.
00:45:54:21 – 00:46:01:17
Alex Fitzpatrick
True. Yeah. I mean, I still want to live in Animal Crossing, though, because it’s just cute. It’s very cute.
00:46:01:29 – 00:46:06:57
Agent Palmer
Are there other games with museums in them?
00:46:07:02 – 00:46:27:10
Alex Fitzpatrick
Well, I mentioned it before, but Stardew Valley is the other one that comes to mind, which is another like slice of life type simulator game, I realize, but it has a whole like, not really kind of excavation. You can randomly get artifacts and bring it to the museum to get identify and put on display. I’m trying to think of what else has museums.
00:46:27:10 – 00:46:40:13
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, almost every game has a museum type in terms of like collectibles and stuff like that. Okay. You know, so if you expand the definition of that, then like basically every game has that.
00:46:40:18 – 00:46:42:41
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. I mean, yeah.
00:46:42:46 – 00:46:58:46
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean Skyrim kind of has it if you’re me and you always make, a house that has the, trophy room, because you’re obsessed with taxidermy. So you have to have, like, you know, you have a dragon skull, and then you have, like, a troll. That’s all taxidermied and stuff like that.
00:46:58:51 – 00:47:03:23
Agent Palmer
You are putting weight, like, so much extra work into all of this.
00:47:03:23 – 00:47:07:48
Alex Fitzpatrick
I would imagine if I could actually put that effort into my PhD.
00:47:07:52 – 00:47:38:03
Agent Palmer
There’s no way. Because, like, there’s something like, all right, so this is what there’s something very different about the choices we make in a video game compared to real life. If if real life were a video game, we would all do better because we would feel like we had more choice than we actually have. Yeah. I don’t know, because like, it goes back to what Animal Crossing and Stardew Valley are not by definition.
00:47:38:03 – 00:47:45:44
Agent Palmer
If I had told a ten year old, if I had sold a ten year old you on what those games are, you’re not going to play it because they’re chores.
00:47:45:44 – 00:48:07:25
Alex Fitzpatrick
You’re it’s a game about chores, but because they’re slightly video game five in the sense that you achieve something at the end. And I realized that’s actually poisoned my real life because I literally can’t do things. So I don’t make them into video game stuff. So like, like literally doing things that are tasks I have to like, have like an app like, the, RPG have it one.
00:48:07:25 – 00:48:08:28
Alex Fitzpatrick
I forgot what it’s actually called.
00:48:08:37 – 00:48:20:32
Agent Palmer
Oh, I, I okay, so I did it for a while, but then like, I kept what ended up happening was like, I would do the dishes, but I forgot to put it on the list so I could cross it off to get the exchange.
00:48:20:37 – 00:48:21:56
Alex Fitzpatrick
That’s what I mean. I started so like, at.
00:48:21:56 – 00:48:34:27
Agent Palmer
The end of the day, I would be like, all right, I did the dishes and so I wrote down dishes and I put it on the list across it off to get the experience to level up. And I was like, I just, I, this is this isn’t.
00:48:34:27 – 00:48:56:09
Alex Fitzpatrick
But I kind of needed that to, like, get me started, which is really sad to think about and to be honest, at this point, my PhD. So I’m kind of struggling with keeping on task. I might have to redownload it just to get myself to do like simple paged tasks of like write like all page of stuff. But yeah, I need, I like, need that like rush of like I achieved something.
00:48:56:09 – 00:49:02:35
Alex Fitzpatrick
It’s very sad. It’s a huge, indictment of my entire lifestyle, I guess.
00:49:02:40 – 00:49:24:27
Agent Palmer
No, I think it’s pretty fair to anybody who’s ever been a gamer at some point in their life is shaking their head right now. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, it would be because the other thing is, we don’t get to level up now. We don’t get to level up. It’s the worst thing about the human condition.
00:49:24:32 – 00:49:39:31
Agent Palmer
I would love to level up. Like if you told me, like, I have to do that thing for a thousand times. But I will be better, marginally better at it after the thousandth time. Like, I’ll do it. Like, even if it’s shit, I’ll do it because I’ll be better. And that’s not a thing.
00:49:39:33 – 00:49:58:12
Alex Fitzpatrick
That’s like why archeology in games is, like, really deceiving. Because if I knew that I had like, okay, there’s 25 artifacts to find in this game, I would be all over the place looking for those 25 artifacts because I would feel fulfilled once I hit 25. But, archeology can be very, nerve wracking sometimes, you.
00:49:58:17 – 00:50:21:58
Agent Palmer
Know, like, and so in a normal video game, in that scenario, it would be like you’ve, you go into your menu and it’s like you’ve found 21 slash 25. Yeah. But in the real world it’s like you’ve found 21 slash infinity symbol. What, like you don’t you don’t get a percentage clicker. Like it’s not like you found like it’s just no, there’s always more.
00:50:22:03 – 00:50:41:38
Alex Fitzpatrick
That’s why the only productive part of my PhD was, actually going through all the bags and, IDing all my animal bones because I could physically see how much I’ve done. And, so, like, it was, it was a nice way to be like, oh, I should actually do this. And now that I’m, like, just writing stuff, I’m like, I just won’t, won’t do any of that at all.
00:50:41:43 – 00:50:46:54
Agent Palmer
You know, I think you will. It’s how far along are you?
00:50:46:59 – 00:50:57:11
Alex Fitzpatrick
Basically just handing in a draft for my results chapter, and then I have, like two more chapters after that. Two and a half more chapters, I guess. Technically.
00:50:57:16 – 00:51:02:04
Agent Palmer
So just spend the at least one of them relating it to video games as fun. Yeah, you got it.
00:51:02:07 – 00:51:13:18
Alex Fitzpatrick
I my my supervisors are like, Alex, you jumped from talking about, British later prehistory to talking about Skyrim. It’s fine. It makes sense.
00:51:13:21 – 00:51:18:55
Agent Palmer
Just I mean, listen, as long as you can draw the lines, like, I mean, you know.
00:51:19:00 – 00:51:30:05
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah. I didn’t really think of it. I had, like, I don’t know if, you know, there’s a archeologist named, Andrew, Reinhard, who is a, video game archeologist, and I.
00:51:30:05 – 00:51:34:27
Agent Palmer
Need to talk to that. He’s. Because anybody like, he just comes up in every.
00:51:34:27 – 00:51:53:21
Alex Fitzpatrick
I mean, mostly I’m jealous because I wish I could have just been, like, I don’t know, I’ll do video games for a day and have that excuse to do it. I like he’s a genius for that alone. Like like, oh, also obviously like, he’s pioneered so much. And I really like his work in terms of like thinking about archeology in more theoretical digital space.
00:51:53:26 – 00:52:07:03
Alex Fitzpatrick
But also, man, I would love to have been, funded just play video games, like, all the time. Like, dude, figure it out. He got the loophole. And, you know, I’m very jealous of that.
00:52:07:07 – 00:52:30:35
Agent Palmer
So, I mean, it leads me to this question, which is how do you follow the, industry at large? Is it I don’t know, professional journals. Is it podcasting? Is it Twitter? Like, what’s the cause? Obviously it’s not what it was 20 years ago. Yeah. So what’s your I don’t know, how do you keep informed about what’s going on in the space?
00:52:30:37 – 00:52:48:00
Alex Fitzpatrick
I’m, constantly online. In fact, I’m terminally online. And just it’s probably ruined my life, but, yeah, like, I’m always the. That’s like, kind of the nice thing about Twitter is you hear about everything, so you get all the you get all the gossip. That’s all I want. Really?
00:52:48:00 – 00:52:54:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It’s it’s kind of both sides. You get everything, but you also, you everything.
00:52:54:45 – 00:53:05:53
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah. No. And like, like, my partner has been like, you should probably get off Twitter because you’re, like, mad all the time. I’m like, no, I need to know everything that’s happening so I can get mad about it.
00:53:05:57 – 00:53:10:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah, there’s things out there that are pissing me off that I just don’t know about you exactly.
00:53:10:18 – 00:53:14:36
Alex Fitzpatrick
I love complaining. What would you not like to complain?
00:53:14:41 – 00:53:18:11
Agent Palmer
Thank God you found your space. That’s what podcasting is for.
00:53:18:11 – 00:53:46:18
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah. I mean, honestly, I worry sometimes that I come off as too negative on my podcast because I love complaining about stuff. Especially because, like, there’s stuff like fish bones and bird bones I don’t really like working with, so I love complaining about them. It’s just fun. I’m a New Yorker, you know, complaining is like our our lifeblood.
00:53:46:23 – 00:53:50:30
Agent Palmer
You.
00:53:50:35 – 00:54:12:33
Agent Palmer
So what have we learned during this episode? Well, every project with a few people can be related to a role playing game. Party games can help you learn or teach, and wrestling may just be the purest form of storytelling. But let’s dig into those three things before we head on out of here. Every project with a few people can be related to a role playing game party.
00:54:12:40 – 00:54:33:41
Agent Palmer
Yes, I said D&D during the episode, but it works with Pathfinder or whatever ruleset strikes your fancy team building is important, and not just for communication, but in building a team in which all of the bases and basics are covered. There’s a reason D&D comes to my first in this scenario, and it’s because of the short lived 80s animated cartoon.
00:54:33:41 – 00:55:00:05
Agent Palmer
And yes, it was short lived. In it. The party of friends is made up as a perfectly balanced party. Ranger, cavalier, acrobat, magician, thief and barbarian. There’s not two thieves, and there’s not four magicians. This doesn’t always equate to the real world, mostly because people are wearing multiple hats, which in RPG parlance would be multi clashing. Your tech guy is also your web guy.
00:55:00:10 – 00:55:25:17
Agent Palmer
Your finance guy is also H.R., but we all know that while it’s great to have someone who can do many things, it’s also great, especially in a team setting, to have someone who specializes for this episode. It would be great if every historical excavation had a zoo archeologist for animal bones, instead of just looking down on them, as we might learn something more than we currently are.
00:55:25:19 – 00:55:51:44
Agent Palmer
Just as every soccer team needs a goalie because they’re specialized in stopping the ball from getting past them. But sometimes you just need to move a defender in goal because it’s the best you can do. We should aim for better. And that leads me to point number two. Games can help us learn. Games that can help you learn or help you teach is such a generalized statement that it should just be common sense.
00:55:51:49 – 00:56:19:00
Agent Palmer
From personal experience, I learned to type from Mavis Beacon. I learned a larger vocabulary from reading Shirley, but also from playing Magic The Gathering at a younger age and, well, civilization, colonization, and other such loosely fact based games do get into your brain more than you would imagine. And as I understand it, Minecraft is a great teaching aid, and the new Animal Crossing New Horizons has crafting in it as well.
00:56:19:00 – 00:56:42:03
Agent Palmer
Plus, in regards to Magic The Gathering, because it’s near and dear to my heart, many of the top pro players have advanced degrees, and those degrees are in math, which might easily explain why I’m only just so good. But I digress. There are plenty of things beyond math and reading comprehension that games are great at helping us learn.
00:56:42:08 – 00:57:02:59
Agent Palmer
However, to keep this short and because it’s very generic, you’ll have to take my word for it. Or better yet, find a gamer, maybe even one still in high school, and ask them if games helped them. But the key to that is that sometimes you don’t need to know they were helping you, or you don’t know they were helping you.
00:57:02:59 – 00:57:47:32
Agent Palmer
So maybe hindsight has quite a bit to do with it as well, because some games you don’t realize your learning. Those are the special ones though none come to mind. Right now. I’m sure there’s been a few that have come across my CRT occasionally, at least in the past. And speaking of occasionally, I used to watch wrestling, as mentioned during this episode, and Alex still does, but our conversation about wrestling perhaps being the purest form of storytelling is not an indictment on other forms of storytelling, it’s just that, distilled down to its roots, it’s good versus bad, which is also a fairly simple and ubiquitous form of storytelling in and of itself.
00:57:47:37 – 00:58:13:22
Agent Palmer
One of the more relevant things to the conversation you just heard is the idea that you can just jump into it and get your bearings after just an episode or two. And while you might be thinking that that’s true for lots of shows, it’s not universal. And that’s why wrestling is still going many moons after its start. And that’s why I’m very removed and still remember it fondly.
00:58:13:27 – 00:58:35:42
Agent Palmer
It has nothing to do with the in match moments. It has to do with the storylines that were a part of the Attitude ERA and of the characters as well. Plot and characters. Two of the main ingredients in storytelling, and the writers for wrestling know how to utilize both, and have done so for well over 30 years. So those are my three takeaways.
00:58:35:47 – 00:58:57:36
Agent Palmer
What have you learned? What sticks out in your mind from this conversation with Alex? Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 16. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for some official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join in the discussion.
00:58:57:41 – 00:59:21:41
Agent Palmer
You can tweet the podcast at The Palmer Files. Myself at Agent Palmer, and you can tweet Alex at Archeology. Fitz. You can find Alex’s blog at Animal archeology.com and her podcast Arco Animals. Wherever you are listening to this. Plus, as always, don’t forget you can see all of my writings on Agent palmer.com. The show email is the Palmer files at gmail.com.
00:59:21:41 – 00:59:49:34
Agent Palmer
If you’re interested in giving me any, you know, nonpublic feedback or if there’s a topic or guest you’d like me to consider, you can also hear more of me in the meantime on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and my other gig as co-host of the podcast digest with Dan Lizette.
00:59:49:39 – 01:00:22:41
Agent Palmer
And.
01:00:22:46 – 01:00:26:25
Agent Palmer
All right. Alex, do you have one final question for me?
01:00:26:30 – 01:00:41:45
Alex Fitzpatrick
When you’re dead and gone and just a, awful husk of a human being. Just a sack of skin and meat and bones and stuff. What do you want to be done? What? Your body.
01:00:41:50 – 01:00:50:08
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, there’s two sides to that. I think one is culturally, I’m Jewish. So, like, 48 hours later, I should be in the ground.
01:00:50:15 – 01:00:51:02
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah. Okay.
01:00:51:07 – 01:01:19:23
Agent Palmer
But I’m very, very reform, which for those of you who don’t know, is like Jewish light. Yeah. So I don’t know, you know, so outside of that, I if there was any value, I would probably donate some part of me to science, but like, I’m not like, okay, so despite the fact that I grew up Jewish and I had a Jewish grandmother and a Jewish mother telling me I was special, I don’t think there’s anything special about me.
01:01:19:36 – 01:01:46:26
Agent Palmer
So I don’t know if like, donating, like, I mean, I’m sure there’s some relevancy to, like, donating the every man. Yeah. To science. But I don’t know, like, I guess I probably just I mean, by that point, burial plots will be hard to come by, too. So, I don’t know, I feel like the reformed Jews are probably going to be like, yeah, cremation is all right.
01:01:46:30 – 01:02:03:51
Agent Palmer
And and so that’ll be by the time I die. I hope that’ll be a thing. And I won’t take up much space. I don’t know, I, I basically I don’t want to be a pain that’s fair. I want to be as easy as possible. So if, if somebody wants to dump my bones to a scientist. Fair enough. Yeah.
01:02:03:59 – 01:02:22:30
Agent Palmer
If you just whatever, I, I just don’t want to be a burden, I guess. But I don’t think there’s any that I’m not remarkable. Like I’m not smart. I’m not necessarily in shape. I, you know, there’s nothing. I don’t know if anybody’s learning anything from my specialty.
01:02:22:34 – 01:02:33:34
Alex Fitzpatrick
I think, you know, you know, in a couple of, decades, people where we doing studies into the body of the average podcaster. So.
01:02:33:39 – 01:02:52:59
Agent Palmer
Well, I’m not making money at it. It’s all coming out of my pocket. And I have less than a thousand listeners or less than hundreds of listeners. Yeah, I don’t have a. Yeah. So I mean, and I’m, I mean, I’m Jewish, but I am white, so probably fairly average. And I’m in my mid 30s.
01:02:52:59 – 01:02:55:01
Alex Fitzpatrick
We always need to control for that kind of stuff.
01:02:55:03 – 01:02:57:23
Agent Palmer
So I, I hit I am that control.
01:02:57:23 – 01:03:00:05
Alex Fitzpatrick
Yeah. So there you go. In a way. That’s right I.
01:03:00:05 – 01:03:00:40
Agent Palmer
Can be the.
01:03:00:45 – 01:03:01:10
Alex Fitzpatrick
Special.
01:03:01:10 – 01:03:06:35
Agent Palmer
I can be the control group for the study of the body of a podcaster.
01:03:06:37 – 01:03:07:14
Alex Fitzpatrick
Exactly.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).