Episode 55 features Kjell Vandevyvere creator of Coffee and Pens, future author, current newsletter purveyor, blogger, and podcaster.
We discuss writing and reading, process and organization, where writing actually happens and so much more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- What is Coffee and Pens?
- Learning how to write a book
- Writing
- Reading
- Localized colloquialisms
- “The Great American Novel”
- Writing on paper
- Taking Notes
- Reading “The Classics”
- A question of languages
- Understanding who you are writing for or to
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Being Transcription–
00:00:00:12 – 00:00:32:18
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com. I finally have perspective on the meadow 20 years after it was required reading. I’m attempting to once again be a well-rounded amateur musician, and it’s possible Bubba Wheat has me watching trailers again. This is The Palmer Files episode 55 featuring Kjell van de vivre, the creator behind coffee and pens and a prolific creator across blog, newsletter and now podcast, hell and I discuss reading and writing process and organization where writing actually happens and so much more.
00:00:32:25 – 00:01:05:24
Agent Palmer
Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:05:29 – 00:01:33:18
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 55th episode is Kjell van de vivre, the guiding force behind coffee and pens and a future author you should keep an eye on. But more on that during the episode. Kjell and I are both curious creators. We want to know how things work and about processes, and that’s what led him to coffee and pens, which in turn was what led me to him.
00:01:33:23 – 00:02:03:23
Agent Palmer
We talked about localized colloquialisms. Top three guide the classics, taking notes, numbers, reading inspiration, languages. Plus, I get on a soapbox and you know there’s other things that happen as well. Now, before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or after, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest Carl at LV, that’s K JLL, v DV, and this show at the Palmer Files.
00:02:03:28 – 00:02:28:12
Agent Palmer
For all things kale you can visit coffee and pens.com or q lv.com. That’s just kage lv.com. And on those sites you can find links to his podcast newsletter or contact him. Further email can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember your home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com. So without further ado, grab a cup of coffee.
00:02:28:13 – 00:02:36:59
Agent Palmer
However you take it and away we go.
00:02:37:04 – 00:02:42:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I’m going to start with what is coffee and pens?
00:02:42:31 – 00:03:05:40
Kjell Vandevyvere
Okay. Straight to the action. Coffee and pens is a project that I started. Five months ago, I had this idea, like, how did people write a book? And who can I talk to to figure out how it’s done? So I had been on Twitter for a few months at that moment, and I knew a couple of people that had written or self-published and their first book.
00:03:05:45 – 00:03:27:57
Kjell Vandevyvere
So I reached out to them because in some way or other, I was connected with them. I reached out to them and asked them, hey, can I interview you about how you wrote your book and see what I can learn? Surprisingly, I reached out to 4 or 5 people. They all accepted. So that’s how I got started. And then I, started looking for more people who had written, self-published, mainly self-published.
00:03:27:57 – 00:03:48:15
Kjell Vandevyvere
Not everyone. Their first book or a couple of books. And I talked to them about, how did you get the idea? How did you market your book? Which tools that you use? Did you work with someone? Why did you self-publish? And about specific topics of their books that in some way or other, may apply to the writing process and the publishing process?
00:03:48:25 – 00:03:55:07
Agent Palmer
So you started that. Did you want to write a book like, is it like, I want to write a book and I want to know more about it?
00:03:55:12 – 00:04:15:00
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yes and no. Okay. So why am I saying this? It’s always been kind of like a childhood dream to write a book one day. So, like, I would picture myself as a writer, as an author, sometime in the future. But I’m also saying no because it was not with the intention of learning about the entire writing process that I started.
00:04:15:00 – 00:04:37:45
Kjell Vandevyvere
It, I guess, was out of curiosity and not with the idea of, I’m going to just write a book right now. After having learned everything. But now that I’m like 20 something episodes in it, and I feel like I’ve learned so much about the entire publishing thing. I feel more ready than ever to write a book, and I’m like, more motivated to, like, start right now.
00:04:37:45 – 00:04:41:42
Kjell Vandevyvere
But, I have I still figured out what exactly I want to write about.
00:04:41:43 – 00:05:03:59
Agent Palmer
So I you wait. So I’m I’m very much I’ve said this before and I will probably always say this when it comes to writing. I am a strike while the iron is hot. Kind of a guy. Like, if if I can write five posts for my blog in a weekend, I will do it like I will. That that’s fine, I, I don’t mind that.
00:05:04:04 – 00:05:29:00
Agent Palmer
And I always like to be ahead and have like, posts drafted well in advance in order to kind of mitigate the the effect of writer’s block. Like I try not it’s the blog is a passion project. I try not to force it like, oh shit, I have to write today. I don’t want that to be the case.
00:05:29:00 – 00:05:52:14
Agent Palmer
Like, oh no, I wrote this. This is great. And I like the idea of editing. I have no problem with that. And I have friends that will take a look as another set of eyes. But I’m always waiting for that inspiration. Like there, I write about anything and everything. There are movies that I adore that I just don’t have that spark of that inspiration to write about.
00:05:52:14 – 00:06:10:41
Agent Palmer
Like, I have a list of movies I want to write about, but until I get that idea, like, oh, I want to tell people that this is a great movie because X, Y, and Z. But if I don’t have that, or if I don’t have that one, sometimes it’s just a sentence, right? Like, oh, that’s an amazing introduction.
00:06:10:41 – 00:06:37:06
Agent Palmer
Okay, I’ll just write that down and I’m off to the races. But if I don’t have any of that stuff, I don’t force it. And and the closest I come to forcing it is when I draft up the intros and the outros for this podcast. Because when I do that, that’s I don’t have a choice. Right? Like, yeah, I can like, I can record with you weeks, months in advance.
00:06:37:06 – 00:06:58:03
Agent Palmer
Right. But at a certain point, like, I have to like this is going to go out and I have to have written whatever intro they’ve already heard because I’ve, you know, but but I don’t know what that’s going to be. And there are times when I get close and I look, I release this podcast every two weeks. So I have a buffer, but sometimes it’s okay.
00:06:58:03 – 00:07:20:47
Agent Palmer
It’s Thursday, the podcast releases on Tuesday. You have to actually record what you’re going to write. Maybe you should write it like that. And for me, the introduction is kind of formulaic and it’s the outro like, what did I learn from this conversation? And sometimes I’m like, I don’t know. And that’s the it hasn’t happened in a while, right?
00:07:20:47 – 00:07:43:21
Agent Palmer
And that’s where my process becomes like, that’s where I will dive into like your site for like tips and tricks to get going. But at a certain point I will avoid sites like yours and writing tips, because if it’s working, I don’t want to mess with it. Like like I don’t I don’t want anything from anyone else. Like, oh, that’s good.
00:07:43:21 – 00:08:09:28
Agent Palmer
Like I sat down to write something and I it just flew out, flowed out of me. Perfect. I don’t want to ever mess that up like never. That is not something. So when you talk about like, I want to write, but I’m not ready to start, I completely understand because to me and I obviously I don’t, I, I used to write for a living for like websites and stuff and that’s a different mindset.
00:08:09:33 – 00:08:33:53
Agent Palmer
But when you’re talking about telling a story, and you don’t have to stuff it with keywords and you don’t have to write to, you know, a meta tag in this, that, and when you don’t have to write for the internet, you can allow yourself to be inspired and you can wait for it and, and kind of curate that, like, oh, it’s it’s time.
00:08:33:53 – 00:08:55:14
Agent Palmer
I’ve got a story I have to tell and I want to share it with people. So I know where you’re at. It. Do you get anxious though, because like, so I have the blog, I have an outlet and I know you’ve written for your site, but like, are you anxious to get started? Like, oh, I’ve learned all these things and I but I’m just waiting for that one idea.
00:08:55:14 – 00:08:56:58
Agent Palmer
You’re waiting for that one light bulb?
00:08:57:07 – 00:09:22:20
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, I think I do get anxious. I and like I’ve learned all these things and now I want to apply them like I need to apply them. But there’s a big like difference in what you just talked about between writing blog posts and writing a book. Because when you’re writing a book, it’s like, okay, you’ve got this one idea and you’re going to spend the next couple of months, maybe a year with it.
00:09:22:25 – 00:09:43:09
Kjell Vandevyvere
When it’s a blog post, you’re going to spend the next couple of hours with it at most. This I don’t have any problem at all like writing blog posts. Like you, I’m I’m just thinking about things the entire day. And then I’ve got this line or this idea and like, hey, this is something interesting. This is something I need to explore a little bit more, and I start thinking about it.
00:09:43:09 – 00:10:04:54
Kjell Vandevyvere
I shared a thread about it or a tweet about it recently. Like writing, it happens in your head. It doesn’t happen on paper, but on paper or in your computer. So like I’m thinking about stuff for for a few minutes, maybe a few hours, like, okay, I’m going to give this argument and this and that, and I start writing and, and I can write like a short blog post in 15 minutes because I’ve thought about it.
00:10:05:05 – 00:10:13:38
Kjell Vandevyvere
Everything and inspiration is there. But that doesn’t work with a book like a book, it’s not think about something for a few hours and you’ve got the entire road together.
00:10:13:52 – 00:10:40:16
Agent Palmer
No that’s true. I, I will say like I’ve, I’ve gotten that question. I and to me and I think to the average blogger period, this question I’m about to talk about seems ridiculous. But to somebody who doesn’t blog to it’s a legit question, I guess, because the people that don’t understand what blogging is always ask. I get the question a lot.
00:10:40:16 – 00:10:57:47
Agent Palmer
Or at least I used to. So when are you going to write a book? And I, you know, to me it’s like, well, I get to write a little bit about a lot of different things. And yeah, I got some series like I write about music or I write about like a certain, you know, an author or whatever.
00:10:57:52 – 00:11:30:01
Agent Palmer
To me, that’s such a jump, right? Like, and and I understand it’s, you know, at the most some of my, most well-researched posts have been like a week, right. It’s just a week. Okay. Or maybe two. And then I get to put it out. And I think that one of the things is I enjoy that process, like, look, I put out one post a week, and a certain point I was putting out two a week and it was getting crazy.
00:11:30:01 – 00:11:54:04
Agent Palmer
And I settled back, which is why I have like, drafts just everywhere. But, you know, if I want to, I can put out, I can just drop all my posts. They can go live, you know, a book. One of the things that intrigues me about a book, though I don’t have the interest right now, is you don’t get to hit publish.
00:11:54:09 – 00:12:17:30
Agent Palmer
I mean, you do, but you don’t like you’ve got to put in that time and time and effort and energy and then edit and edit and edit and I’m not. I’m familiar. I had a friend who wrote a novel that I edited that we haven’t really revisited since. But I saw him and it was a novel. Right?
00:12:17:30 – 00:12:41:12
Agent Palmer
It’s fiction, but I saw the. Yeah, I saw the I don’t know what the tribulations the like of a writer who’s like, he’s trying not to write himself into a corner and this, that and the other thing, and I understand nonfiction is different, which is what most of my longer forum posts are. But having said all that, as the guy who’s just a blogger that gets well, when are you going to write a book?
00:12:41:12 – 00:13:02:18
Agent Palmer
I go, I, I don’t have an interest. You know, maybe one day I don’t have an interest. So like, I, I, I, I kind of applaud you for acknowledging it. Like, I want to write a book like that, that you put that on your to do list and you want to check it off like that’s, that’s pretty big.
00:13:02:18 – 00:13:21:55
Agent Palmer
And and, you know, I mean, the more you talk to these people, the more you do the research and like kind of fill out coffee and pens, like, you start to realize exactly what you’re getting into. And I wonder, like, are you also a little more scared the more you learn.
00:13:21:59 – 00:13:36:11
Kjell Vandevyvere
Great question. Actually I don’t think so. In contrary, I feel more confident because the more I learn, like the more ideas I get about how to do things right.
00:13:36:15 – 00:13:36:48
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:13:36:53 – 00:14:03:27
Kjell Vandevyvere
Like these people have launched successful books and they’ve told me how they marketed it, how they applied. So like writing in public, how they which tools they used. And on top of what I learned from them, I’ve kind of built a connection with them. So if I ever get into a problem while writing a book, I know I could probably reach out to.
00:14:03:32 – 00:14:13:04
Kjell Vandevyvere
Maybe not all of them, but like 90% of them. And post my question and get their help. So I think I feel more confident rather than more scared.
00:14:13:09 – 00:14:32:00
Agent Palmer
I like it, I like it, that’s good. What about writing in general, though? Like, have you always wanted to be a writer, like, or have you always been a writer? I should say, like every year I feel like I keep bringing this point up in my podcasts a lot. Like everybody has to write in school, like, you can’t avoid it.
00:14:32:01 – 00:14:49:28
Agent Palmer
You have to write something. But then there’s some of us that are like, well, this isn’t that bad. Like, I like this, you know, were you one of those, like, it’s time to write. Like, you may not like what you’re writing about in school, but you enjoy the process of writing.
00:14:49:37 – 00:15:17:18
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, yeah, I think that was me. So in school, I never had, any problems with writing. Not much. English is not my first language, and I enjoy doing this process. Something else. And in university, I studied languages, so there was a lot of writing there as well, like different kinds of writing, like press releases, translations, and I mostly enjoyed them.
00:15:17:22 – 00:15:39:52
Kjell Vandevyvere
But I didn’t do any writing for myself until I was about 22 or 23. And I did a gap year. And then I decided to start a blog because, you know, I did want to have the same conversation over and over again. Did you want to talk to your friend A and say, hey, this is what I’ve been up to this week?
00:15:39:57 – 00:15:57:30
Kjell Vandevyvere
Hey, then to my uncle. This is what I’ve been up to this week. Actually, that was kind of very, like, self-centered, like thinking the whole world revolves around me because no one ever read it. Because they weren’t interested in what I was doing. So I wouldn’t even have that, have had these conversations over and over again, you know?
00:15:57:30 – 00:15:59:18
Kjell Vandevyvere
But it was what got me started.
00:15:59:18 – 00:16:12:35
Agent Palmer
Do you go back and look at like, because obviously that’s kind of where this journey that you’re on right now started? Yeah. Do you go back and look at them and go like, wow, I, I well I’ve come a long way.
00:16:12:40 – 00:16:37:58
Kjell Vandevyvere
So a little bit I don’t like intentionally go back and compare what I’ve written and see how much I’ve improved. But I can think of two examples. And maybe there were only two situations where I did this, but a few weeks ago, maybe a month or two, I wanted to share a little bit more about myself, with the people that follow me on Twitter.
00:16:38:03 – 00:16:57:05
Kjell Vandevyvere
So I wrote it, read like a little bit of a personal journey from when I started a gap year until where I am now. And to do that, I did have like a look at those first blog posts that I posted and I skimmed through them. Really, I didn’t read, I didn’t read them, but that was when I had to look back.
00:16:57:05 – 00:17:19:20
Kjell Vandevyvere
Like on when I started, why I wrote about certain things. And then the second example is the first, like a real blogging project that I started that the second. Last year in June, I talked to a friend and said, hey, we should like kind of build something together. The kind of website where we do like research, blog posts about productivity.
00:17:19:25 – 00:17:29:27
Kjell Vandevyvere
So we created this website called top three Guide. And like you said a while ago that sometimes did research for like 1 or 2 weeks to do something.
00:17:29:29 – 00:17:30:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:17:30:07 – 00:17:50:37
Kjell Vandevyvere
And we did that like we researched 1 or 2 weeks about, okay, how do you build a have a habit step by step. And then we’d write like in three steps. This is how you build a habit. Or like these are the top three ideas to be more productive today. So it was like my first experience with the regular posting things, once a week.
00:17:50:42 – 00:18:20:48
Kjell Vandevyvere
That’s what we tried. We when it ended up writing about 30 topics in maybe 5 or 6 months, and then it was like going where we wanted it to go. Quit. But it’s still up. It still exists because it’s getting some, some search engine traffic, like, we may want to retake it someday. Who knows? So I looked back at one of those early posts now, maybe last month of the month before, and I edited it.
00:18:20:53 – 00:18:41:00
Kjell Vandevyvere
And then I did see, like a kind of gap. Okay, this is how I wrote one year ago, and this is how I write now. And my writing was full of fluff, like full of words, but not fluff in terms of this doesn’t add value, but full of words that don’t belong in a clear picture.
00:18:41:05 – 00:18:55:20
Agent Palmer
So I, I think you may be one of the few writers I’ve talked to where English isn’t your first language. So does that does that make it harder or help? Actually, I mean, or is it both?
00:18:55:24 – 00:19:20:11
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, I think it’s both. So it helps. I think with grammar because I’ve been to, like high school, I had five years of English university, I had four years of English, quite intense. So there is probably not a single rule of grammar that I have never seen about the English language. And I know many native speakers. They’ve never learned the grammar.
00:19:20:11 – 00:19:39:14
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, they have no idea. They know things are the way they are, but they don’t know why. And I’m not sure why this is, but I’ve always had a quite good feeling for English grammar, like I’ve never had to study it much. I always like to hear when something sounds wrong or when something sounds right. So that’s been a benefit.
00:19:39:19 – 00:19:58:57
Kjell Vandevyvere
But I’ve had many native speakers tell me that I, I speak better than them, like more correctly than they do. But then the negative thing is, I’ll never learn all the colloquialisms and all the like, cultural references and the metaphor and the metaphors, but they, you know, the.
00:19:58:57 – 00:19:59:45
Agent Palmer
Cliches.
00:19:59:45 – 00:20:15:53
Kjell Vandevyvere
The kind of the cliches and everything. Right? Like I I’ll remember like, what’s it called fit as a fiddle or something like that. But then there are like way more things that people, get naturally. And I wrote like, I’ll understand them, but I won’t be able to reproduce.
00:20:16:00 – 00:20:44:56
Agent Palmer
Well that that but that’s cultural anyway, right. Like that. That’s, that’s going to be the same, you know, because obviously that’s different in England versus America, right? Like the colloquialisms are just localized. So I don’t know if you’d get that anyway. But unless you’re, unless you’re setting a novel somewhere that’s not it’s not that big of a deal.
00:20:45:00 – 00:21:00:09
Agent Palmer
Really? Okay. At least to me. Right. Like, and I’ve, you know, I’ve, I’m not going to say I’m an Anglophile. Okay. But I have read a lot of, you know, like, British spy novels and.
00:21:00:14 – 00:21:00:45
Kjell Vandevyvere
Okay.
00:21:00:50 – 00:21:30:00
Agent Palmer
While they are mostly set in the Cold War, 60s and 70s kind of a deal, maybe there’s some things that go over my head, but I still enjoy this story, right? Like, I’m not like, like like for the one example I can think of is, like a university tie or college tie, that always seems to come up in certain types of British fiction.
00:21:30:05 – 00:21:49:40
Agent Palmer
And that’s not something we really maybe it’s something here, but it’s, it’s out of my circle. Like, I have no clue any of that really means, like. Oh, well, he was wearing an Oxford tie, like, I don’t. Okay. Like, so you don’t like that or you do, right? And you just figure it out based on what’s going on.
00:21:49:45 – 00:21:57:22
Agent Palmer
So I, I don’t think that’s is as big of a deal. I mean, let me let me ask you this. When you talk about wanting to write a book.
00:21:57:27 – 00:21:59:39
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
00:21:59:44 – 00:22:33:11
Agent Palmer
As, as not an American. So in America, it’s always. So you’re going to write the great American novel, and that’s always the benchmark. Yeah, especially for fiction. And unfortunately for us, especially people who are writers of any kind, the Great American novel is held up to a standard that existed in the 60s and occasionally, and arguably there’s a novel here or there that changes the shift in paradigm or whatever.
00:22:33:16 – 00:22:57:45
Agent Palmer
Does that exist outside of the America like? Our colloquialism is the great American novel. Like you’re going to change literature in America like that. That’s that’s what we say to young writers. Does that exist outside? Like, I don’t know, like, I don’t know if you’re hearing this for the first time or the 50th, but like, what is that that, can’t have any cultural relevance to you.
00:22:57:57 – 00:23:10:22
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, I don’t think so. It’s something I’ve never told about. I’ve heard of, like the Great American novel. I’ve. I’ve never even thought about researching it. If it’s something I want to do.
00:23:10:27 – 00:23:34:44
Agent Palmer
It’s such a weird. It’s such a weird thing. It’s like. It’s like, the only thing I can think of on a world stage is like, oh, that’s cool. Your ten year old is playing football. You’re going to win the World Cup next year. Like what? Like I don’t we we have this standard for writers. It’s like, yeah, all right, well you’re going to be famous after this comes out, right?
00:23:34:44 – 00:23:42:57
Agent Palmer
Like that’s that’s the standard. And yeah you just want to tell your story. Right. Like that’s that’s it.
00:23:43:02 – 00:23:44:20
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
00:23:44:24 – 00:23:52:49
Agent Palmer
Do you drink coffee. Like is that where coffee and pens comes from? Like is coffee your go to a time to write drink.
00:23:52:53 – 00:24:14:25
Kjell Vandevyvere
It’s not related to writing much. I drink 2 or 3 cups a day, get up, fix my first cup. Probably have one before again, another one before noon. Somewhere between 10 and 10 and 12. And then another one in the afternoon. Is that work of importance comes from maybe yes, or maybe no. I can’t remember very well.
00:24:14:30 – 00:24:33:35
Kjell Vandevyvere
It’s something. When I started these interviews, I asked Twitter for feedback, like I wrote, hey, I want to do this interview thinking about a name. And there were a few suggestions. Some related to coffee, some related to pens or something, and maybe someone came up with coffee and pens maybe, or something. I put together. And I just thought, yeah, you know, I like coffee.
00:24:33:35 – 00:24:46:41
Kjell Vandevyvere
Coffee is kind of associated with with writing, with the artistic, pens. You know, you need pens. So, I thought it was a good name. I’m not sure if I’d pick the same name again, but I do. I think it’s not a bad.
00:24:46:52 – 00:24:50:10
Agent Palmer
Do you still write? Do you still handwrite?
00:24:50:15 – 00:25:07:27
Kjell Vandevyvere
No. Almost never. Like I’ve got, I’ve got a piece of paper here, which is a little bit, but those are notes for my book. I’ve paid for some paid work, so I’ve got another piece of paper here. There’s also notes. So that’s not really writing is it. Well, I think I think it is.
00:25:07:27 – 00:25:20:39
Agent Palmer
I mean, you know, one of the things I keep hearing about is that there is a greater correlation for memory when you write, when you physically write something versus typing it.
00:25:20:44 – 00:25:21:22
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
00:25:21:27 – 00:25:50:25
Agent Palmer
But like you’re talking to the world’s worst note taker, right? Like I’ve, I’ve lost more good ideas because I didn’t write them down in time or whatever. Then I will ever have published like period. And I, I need to get that’s the one habit I need to get into is writing this stuff down more. And I just don’t like even.
00:25:50:29 – 00:26:15:46
Agent Palmer
I’m I’m so bad with it that I can tell you half of the the podcasts I’ve done, I record and then I edit and then I put it on a shelf, and then I listen back and I take notes, and I can’t tell you how many times I had an idea during the edit that I didn’t write down and then like, go and listen to take my notes.
00:26:15:51 – 00:26:33:41
Agent Palmer
And I cannot for the life of me come back to whatever that idea was. It’s gone. And and while it’s happened on probably half of the episodes of this show, I still am not good enough to just write it down.
00:26:33:46 – 00:26:41:08
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, yeah, it is this thing of not wanting to do. I think two things at the same time.
00:26:41:08 – 00:26:41:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:26:42:01 – 00:27:03:20
Kjell Vandevyvere
So when I, edit my podcasts, I also have ideas sometimes, but I know I’m in the editing stage, you know, I’m listening. Where is there a gap? When is someone coughing? I’m trying to cut those out. And then I know that I’m going to listen again. After having gone through this editing process, I’m going to listen again to take the notes.
00:27:03:24 – 00:27:16:57
Kjell Vandevyvere
And maybe sometimes something escapes, but it’s the you know, it’s it’s a compromise that you need to to make with yourself. Because if you’re going to try to do two things at the same time, I’m taking notes and editing. You’re not going to do any of those two.
00:27:16:57 – 00:27:27:56
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah. Yeah, I, I also wonder too, like maybe it wasn’t meant to be like, I’m still getting these shows out. Like when people are still listening to them.
00:27:28:01 – 00:27:29:01
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
00:27:29:06 – 00:27:57:03
Agent Palmer
And you know, there’s a pressure of deadline. I feel like that we all put on ourselves and I try and work ahead so I don’t really have to work to the deadline, but you can’t help it sometimes. So life happens. Obviously, which is completely unrelated. It is related, but it is also unrelated to the creative process. But sometimes you’re just like, well, that flowed out and it’s perfect.
00:27:57:03 – 00:28:23:42
Agent Palmer
And sometimes you’re like, ooh, what do I do? What do I do now? Like and and it’s one of the reasons that I, I like doing this stuff because we, I get to tell a story. We get to share your story with my audience and there’s something kind of, I don’t know, campfire ish. Right? Like we’re back to just talking.
00:28:23:42 – 00:28:45:18
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I think people talk enough. One of the one of the things that I almost called this show The Conversationalist, but I didn’t want a little bit, but it’s that look, I went with the Palmer Files because it’s, you know, branding. But, like, I didn’t want it to be too generic, but maybe, you know, that’s what it is like.
00:28:45:18 – 00:29:08:22
Agent Palmer
I don’t feel like people talk anymore. Like I said something to you, and then you say something to me, and if we’re having a real conversation, you’re listening. And then bouncing back versus while you’re talking, I’m just thinking about what I’m going to say next, which I, I try not to do. I, I’m, I’m sure I’m guilty of it, but I try not to do that.
00:29:08:27 – 00:29:28:48
Agent Palmer
And I feel like that’s it. It’s one of the reasons I like writing because, like, I’m sharing this with you and hopefully you’re going to see it or I’m telling you this story and hopefully you’re going to hear it. And too many people are caught up in their own place like, no, just sit back and listen.
00:29:28:53 – 00:29:29:22
Kjell Vandevyvere
That’s true.
00:29:29:31 – 00:29:45:08
Agent Palmer
Like I, I don’t know when you’re like what do you feel when you hit publish on either a blog post or a podcast episode like, you know, are you, are you on to the next thing? Are you excited for what you’ve just done?
00:29:45:13 – 00:30:19:43
Kjell Vandevyvere
Between looking at the stats and moving on to the next thing. So they they both happen like I’m, I’m a bit too obsessed with the metric sometimes, especially when they’re not good enough. Like when I see I hit publish on something and then the first day is getting like 50 views. Yeah, good. That did well, but then I hit publish on something like the The new The Davis Interview released yesterday, and I released a little bit early so that I would match with the with the launch day of that new book.
00:30:19:54 – 00:30:20:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:30:20:26 – 00:30:43:07
Kjell Vandevyvere
And the you know, matching events. It’s going to be perfect. No. What it has had two views up till now, almost 24 hours like what happened. And you know, that upsets me a little bit, but it doesn’t like stop me from moving on. Like I’ll be upset about the metrics, but it doesn’t stop me from from starting on the next one.
00:30:43:07 – 00:31:15:01
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I. It’s weird about metrics. We, the blog is turning ten this year. I don’t even really. Look, I couldn’t even tell you where I’m at with metrics anymore. And and and look, I’m not getting hundreds of thousands of views, so I don’t want anybody to think like, oh, well, that’s my cash cow, because it’s not.
00:31:15:06 – 00:31:41:54
Agent Palmer
But I do know it’s much better than when I was agonizing over the statistics, when it was like I had. When you celebrate one view, right? Because when you start out and you’re like, oh, I got ten posts and six people like, you know, it’s like, oh, whatever, whatever. And then for me, it was always, just are people consuming it on a slightly regular basis?
00:31:41:59 – 00:32:11:28
Agent Palmer
And so it was like, all right, well, I got one person to visit my site each day in this month that was huge, like 34 visits in a month. They’re like, this is great. But at a certain point you just stop the podcast turns two and I see the numbers on my dashboard because when I log in to my host, they’re they’re, yeah, I almost wish they weren’t there because I wouldn’t.
00:32:11:34 – 00:32:40:55
Agent Palmer
I just feel like I don’t want to know. Like, if I want to know, I’ll look for it. Like I’ll actively look for it. Yeah. But I also think it comes with time. You know, the blog is ten, and I’m sure I looked at numbers for the first 4 or 5 years, like, and I won’t say I live in it, live and die with them, but I’m with you when you look at the numbers and they’re not what you want, you get disappointed.
00:32:40:59 – 00:33:10:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I shifted towards the, the this most recent five years of the blog to being satisfied with hitting publish, because I know there’s some people that will read it and there’s some people that won’t. And I tried to focus on being satisfied that I did the best I could to share something, and then hopefully a lot of people will see it.
00:33:10:16 – 00:33:36:53
Agent Palmer
But I’ve taken those people out of the equation as much as possible because it’s hard. It’s a crowded market now. All of it is. No matter what you’re doing, what you’re writing, what you’re producing, what you’re putting out there, there’s a million other people putting other things out there. And I just I tried to make that shift and it took like it took years obviously, to get there.
00:33:37:04 – 00:33:41:38
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But you want to get to that point where like, publish is the satisfaction.
00:33:41:43 – 00:33:42:46
Kjell Vandevyvere
00:33:42:51 – 00:33:50:46
Agent Palmer
The people like the hundreds of thousands of people that could potentially listen or read something. That’s the icing.
00:33:50:51 – 00:34:20:51
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah. A lot depends for me on why I’m writing. So I’ve got two things going on. Let’s say that’s coffee and pens and it’s a daily newsletter I started writing this month. Kind of like to just, force myself to write every day about something and explore new ideas. So coffee and pens, I’m writing that for other people, like I’m writing.
00:34:20:51 – 00:34:34:30
Kjell Vandevyvere
This is what I learned. So what you can learn about how to write a book, I’m writing this for you. And then if that person isn’t reading it, it hurts a little bit, you know, because I’m writing it for someone else and someone else is in there.
00:34:34:35 – 00:34:34:58
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:34:34:58 – 00:34:57:04
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah. And then the daily newsletter is, like you say, with your podcast, you know, you sign in to your newsletter like, to and the first thing that you see is the number of subscribers. So I know. Yeah. And while it’s saying stable, I’m happy. And a little thing inside me says, why is this not growing? And I know it’s not growing because I’m not promoting it.
00:34:57:09 – 00:35:21:19
Kjell Vandevyvere
I’m the biggest metric for me at the moment is, is no one unsubscribing and it’s better than I expected. Like since I started writing daily, which is 25 days ago, I think a few people have, subscribed of course, but not too many. Like I’m still going to stable. I’ve got a few new signs up, sign ups. I’ve got a few unsubscribe.
00:35:21:23 – 00:35:40:25
Kjell Vandevyvere
And then of those daily emails I once in a while, but something on my website, on my personal website, like repurpose it out as a blog post, or I think about something that I wrote somewhere else and I put on my, my personal website. And you know what? I’ve not checked those stats in months. Since the start of the year.
00:35:40:38 – 00:35:55:28
Kjell Vandevyvere
I almost never check just that some stats on my personal website, because that’s for me. Those are things that I wrote for myself, and if I wanted other people to read it, I’ve already shared it somewhere else because I know that people won’t just come to my website to see what I have written.
00:35:55:41 – 00:36:09:54
Agent Palmer
So I, I, I have to ask this question. In the process of writing and I’m and I mean this in the most specific sense, when you sit down at your keyboard to type.
00:36:09:58 – 00:36:10:20
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
00:36:10:20 – 00:36:34:53
Agent Palmer
Do you notice a difference in how it comes out of you when you’re writing it for coffee and pens? Like for me, the one who wants to write a book versus when you’re writing it for your newsletter and doing it just to write like. Or is it the same until you go back to the edit process?
00:36:34:58 – 00:36:56:53
Kjell Vandevyvere
I’m not sure how I feel about it, but I know the writing itself is very different. Okay, so when I write for my newsletter, I start from one idea and I write from start to finish, and then I’ll just like it’s short. Usually it’s short. I don’t write long posts anymore and then I’ll read it again. Check for typos, check if I can cut some words.
00:36:56:58 – 00:37:19:24
Kjell Vandevyvere
I’m not going to be it because I don’t want to spend hours on something short. Yeah, it’s going to be 200 words that I want to do daily, but when I write for coffee or pens, I go to different stages. I listen to the podcasts, I take notes, per question, and then I look at those questions and I’m starting some kind of first edit, like, what can I put together?
00:37:19:28 – 00:37:31:19
Kjell Vandevyvere
Like which part from the start of the podcast goes together? What, the end of the podcast. And I’m not going to mix it and the podcast is going to stay the same conversation. But when I write about it, I can put those things together because they make sense.
00:37:31:31 – 00:37:32:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:37:32:22 – 00:37:53:45
Kjell Vandevyvere
And I, I start joining the ideas and then I start writing them out, and then I go to an editing stage, and then I start adding the links to, like, external websites and my own relevant, links. And I go through like 3 or 4 stages for coffee and pens and for personal writing. I go to like one and a half stages, maybe because I’m not even editing it.
00:37:53:45 – 00:38:11:38
Agent Palmer
Seriously, do you prefer one over the other because it sounds like the newsletter writing is more Scottish? I know you still edit it, but it’s like stream of conscience, right? Like this is I’m writing it and it’s just coming out. Do you prefer one to the other? Like it’s one more fun.
00:38:11:43 – 00:38:33:36
Kjell Vandevyvere
Stream of conscious writing? Is is more fun, I guess, because it’s, you know, it’s just you say what you’re thinking and not caring too much about what other people think. Yeah, they’ve got it’s got more personality. It’s like, this is who I am, and I’m not going to put one word in because you like it or I’m not going to delete this word because you’ll dislike it.
00:38:33:41 – 00:39:05:56
Kjell Vandevyvere
I want coffee and pens. It’s a little bit more complicated. Like I’m still going to try to be myself and add a little bit of personality in it, but in the end, it’s not about me, it’s about the people I interviewed. And so I’ve got to stay a little bit more like in the middle and like reach, like a wider audience and not make it too much about myself or like, not trying to make it too funny or, like, too controversial or too opinionated.
00:39:06:01 – 00:39:09:55
Agent Palmer
So most writers read a lot.
00:39:10:00 – 00:39:10:18
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
00:39:10:29 – 00:39:13:04
Agent Palmer
How much are you reading?
00:39:13:09 – 00:39:37:29
Kjell Vandevyvere
I was not reading much books until I started coffee and pens. So I, I try to read one book per week more or less, and that was not happening. For the first months of the year. I read maybe five books until like before May. So that was one a month more or less. Yeah. And then for coffee and pens, I interview authors.
00:39:37:29 – 00:39:56:33
Kjell Vandevyvere
I might try to read their book before the interview, and because I’m trying to do an interview per week, I’ve been trying to read a book per week. And so coffee and Beans had a huge influence on the amount of reading I’m doing and what I’m learning from those books as well, because I get to apply what I read like in two ways.
00:39:56:38 – 00:40:10:00
Kjell Vandevyvere
First, I’m taking notes, which I wasn’t always doing before. Now I am forcing myself to take notes because what I read is what I want to talk about. Maybe so I need the notes. If I don’t take notes, I won’t have conversation topics.
00:40:10:02 – 00:40:10:56
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:40:11:01 – 00:40:32:24
Kjell Vandevyvere
And afterwards I want to share the best notes from the book with my audience as well. You know, if I’ve read the book, why not share what I’ve learned? And on the second level, I get to talk to the orders about their book, so I get to expound on those ideas of the book, or I get them to rephrase it to me, like in different words, like in the interview life.
00:40:32:29 – 00:40:37:01
Kjell Vandevyvere
So I think I’m learning a lot more from reading in this way to give in pens.
00:40:37:06 – 00:40:42:52
Agent Palmer
Are you were you a reader before? So I mean so yeah.
00:40:42:56 – 00:40:43:33
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yes.
00:40:43:38 – 00:41:05:27
Agent Palmer
Okay. Because because I was a reader in high school, let’s say, and then in college university, you get required reading. Obviously. I think maybe through my entire through all of my four years, I read three books for pleasure.
00:41:05:32 – 00:41:06:03
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
00:41:06:08 – 00:41:27:41
Agent Palmer
And then a few years ago, like after I started the blog, I started to like, I want to read again. And it was kind of like it was with you, like, I want to read. I started at a book a month and then, you know, all of a sudden you read 14 in a year and you go, well, I was I was better than a book a month.
00:41:27:41 – 00:41:50:21
Agent Palmer
I can do more than this. And I I’ve never tried to set it to a book a week, but it has become that. Yeah, there’s a certain point like you, it’s like running. Like the more you do it, the faster you get. So, And now I’m a reader again. Aside from what you’re reading for the podcast, do you read other things now?
00:41:50:26 – 00:42:14:14
Kjell Vandevyvere
A few, yeah. So sometimes that happens that I read a very short book. Okay. Like from someone or maybe I’ve read it before and I do once a month. I do like what I call prolific writer special. I could have I could ask for the next one, actually. So I talk to people that do a lot of writing.
00:42:14:14 – 00:42:37:52
Kjell Vandevyvere
It doesn’t matter which form, but they have not published a book, so they could have written online courses. They could have written, like many blog posts, I could, you know, anything. And I ask them, what’s your inspiration, what you’re like? Top three writing tips and what’s your secret to being so, prolific? That’s something I do once a month, so I don’t need to do any reading for that.
00:42:38:03 – 00:42:54:24
Kjell Vandevyvere
And I don’t need to do a lot of writing for that either, because it’s a copy paste job. So that allows me some time to read other stuff as well. So recently I’ve read greenlights. Matthew McConaughey. It’s kind of like autobiography. Yeah, it’s.
00:42:54:29 – 00:42:55:36
Agent Palmer
I like my list, but.
00:42:55:39 – 00:43:15:33
Kjell Vandevyvere
We should not go too into much detail about that. Like there are a few funny things in it, and I’ve, I’ve, I’ve used a few stories from that book and what I’ve written recently, but I don’t I feel he’s like a little bit of like upper middle earth. Dude, you’re a famous actor. You’re you’re rich and and and we didn’t want to go broke, but.
00:43:15:44 – 00:43:38:41
Kjell Vandevyvere
Well, I didn’t want to do any more rom coms. Like, dude, how much money do you have? Like, you really? You really don’t want to go broke? Yeah, because you’re not wanting to do more rom coms. Like, really? Yeah. So that that, you know, that was a little bit of like a, pain point, like a little bit of a losing points there.
00:43:38:55 – 00:43:51:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Meanwhile, like, you and I could do one of those movies and. Probably. Right. Yeah. For the rest of our lives. Right. Like, so that’s a biography. Do you read any, like, like fiction or.
00:43:51:43 – 00:44:11:26
Kjell Vandevyvere
No, not much. So, what? I am reading a couple of parenting parenting books. That’s what I’ve been reading recently. So I’m now reading a parenting book. I’ve read maybe two in the past couple of months. Because I have my first daughter. She’s six months old. Don’t want.
00:44:11:26 – 00:44:12:20
Agent Palmer
Congratulations.
00:44:12:20 – 00:44:31:05
Kjell Vandevyvere
Thank you. I don’t want to do a terrible job. So I’ve been reading a bit about it. What else am I reading? I read, I try to read meditations from Marcus Aurelius because, like many people recommend it. Okay. And I’m not sure, you know, it’s not. It’s not me.
00:44:31:10 – 00:45:05:51
Agent Palmer
There. There is something about the quote unquote classics that do not hold up. Yeah. And I mean that in a conventional sense. Right? Like, if you sit down and watch a movie, take any Marvel movie that’s come out in the last ten years, it’s 2.5 hours, two hours and 15, like, it’s a it’s a long movie, and it’s a departure from what existed in the 80s and 90s, where movies were 87 minutes.
00:45:05:56 – 00:45:19:28
Agent Palmer
And by the 90th minute you were out of the theater, right? Or you were already hitting rewind on the VHS, like those movies were formulaic and they were 90 minutes. But if you go into the 70s and the 60s, those movies were 2.5 hour.
00:45:19:30 – 00:45:20:16
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
00:45:20:20 – 00:45:51:58
Agent Palmer
And the pacing is so different that a 2.5 hour movie made in 1970 and a two hour and a half hour movie made now, just different forms of art. Period. The end. And I feel like people are not as forgiving when it comes to the written word that some of these classics don’t hold up as well. Yeah, and some of them I’m trying not to read like I’ve got, I’ve been trying to get rid of stuff in my house.
00:45:52:12 – 00:46:10:16
Agent Palmer
I was a packrat for a very, very long time. And now the thing I have the most of in my house is books, which is never a bad problem to have. Except it. Yeah, I don’t think I’ve read all of these books, so I’m in the process of like, trying to be like, I’m going to read the books in my house to see if I want to keep them.
00:46:10:22 – 00:46:11:16
Kjell Vandevyvere
Okay.
00:46:11:21 – 00:46:16:54
Agent Palmer
There are some books that are old. They’re that I’m just afraid to read.
00:46:17:03 – 00:46:17:35
Kjell Vandevyvere
00:46:17:35 – 00:46:37:30
Agent Palmer
Because I’m a completionist. So if I start it, I’m going to finish it, but I don’t want to sludge through it. If it’s like, I don’t know, like, is catcher in the Rye really all I remember it to be like it was something to me when I was younger. I’m not. I’m not that kid anymore.
00:46:37:34 – 00:46:38:42
Kjell Vandevyvere
And yeah.
00:46:38:46 – 00:47:03:13
Agent Palmer
You know, it was written in a different time. And does it hold up and so when you go back even further, like Marcus Aurelius, like, yeah. Like, I don’t know how much of that stuff holds up. And I don’t know if I don’t know if we talk about that enough. And I’m going to get on my soapbox here for a moment, okay?
00:47:03:17 – 00:47:31:28
Agent Palmer
I feel like part of it is, hey, I read Shakespeare. The discussion is around how many fancy Renaissance or, like, famous authors I have read, not their work spoke to me. We don’t talk about that part. We talk about, oh, I read Shakespeare. Like, okay, good. But, can you relate to it? Like, does it work for you?
00:47:31:33 – 00:47:56:04
Agent Palmer
There’s a Canadian author named Douglas Copeland, and I’ve been reading through his entire bibliography. He’s actually not the only author who I’m reading through the entire bibliography for. Okay. But Douglas Copeland speaks to me on such a level that I am starting to try and comprehend now that I’m, I don’t know, seven novels, seven books and books. Into his, you know, he wrote like 20 books.
00:47:56:04 – 00:48:20:28
Agent Palmer
So I have a lot more to go. He speaks to me. Is he like, is he Hemingway? You know, to me he is, because he speaks to me in the way that my parents spoke about Hemingway. But Hemingway doesn’t necessarily speak to me like I’m not going back and reading, like, For Whom the Bell Tolls going. Well, this is speaking to me.
00:48:20:28 – 00:48:43:27
Agent Palmer
No, I didn’t grow up in the depression like so. I’m off my soapbox now, but, like, it’s not, you know, like, I don’t think it’s all equal. I think you find what you like and like, hit it. And if you find somebody like Copeland for me or like Len Deighton for me, where they’ve written 30 books, like All the Better, you have 30 books of theirs to read.
00:48:43:34 – 00:49:06:44
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But to me, we don’t hold right books and authors in the same regard as everything else. Not everything is relevant to all the time. Like, I know that, like my blog, I try and write things is evergreen is possible, for better or worse. That’s a decision I have made. But that doesn’t mean it’s relevant.
00:49:06:48 – 00:49:07:22
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
00:49:07:27 – 00:49:25:17
Agent Palmer
It’s ten years. I’ve got ten years of content on the internet. Look through the back catalog. There’s stuff that’s just completely crazy, like, oh, that’s not relevant anymore. Well, fine. But why can’t the same be true for books? So, I mean, if you find something you like, I mean.
00:49:25:23 – 00:49:26:32
Kjell Vandevyvere
00:49:26:36 – 00:49:28:10
Agent Palmer
Pile it on, man. Like that.
00:49:28:11 – 00:49:29:54
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, that’s a good observation.
00:49:29:58 – 00:49:30:46
Agent Palmer
That’s what I would say.
00:49:30:46 – 00:49:51:33
Kjell Vandevyvere
Like, I did a lot of reading classics, so I got I for a long time, I had this amazing, maybe crazy idea that I did not want to buy Kindle books, because a book for me is something that you hold like this is a notebook, but reading goes like this. Like you opened a book and you go turn pages.
00:49:51:38 – 00:49:52:44
Kjell Vandevyvere
It’s not something.
00:49:52:44 – 00:50:00:28
Agent Palmer
Look, you’re preaching. You’re preaching to the choir man. I if, if, if I can give me the book, I want to feel it in my hands.
00:50:00:28 – 00:50:27:27
Kjell Vandevyvere
But I reached a point living in where I live. I’ve been living in South America and or for one, I once was sent a book from the United States. It was a gift. Fortunately, it arrived almost two years later, so I’m not going to pay for a book that might never make it to my door. Okay, and if I’m going to order books anyway, I’m probably going to pay the same amount for shipping as I’m paying for the book, if not more.
00:50:27:30 – 00:50:55:10
Kjell Vandevyvere
Okay, so I can. No way I’m going to get books delivered to Bolivia or Peru. There aren’t many English of bookshops I had. I sometimes find like 1 or 2 English books that were definitely pirated. But that’s out of the point. So for a long time I didn’t buy new books, or I bought books when I traveled to like to Belgium over there over the holidays, bought a couple of books, packed them in my suitcase.
00:50:55:10 – 00:51:09:13
Kjell Vandevyvere
But of course, I can’t bring any books because I need clothes and a thing as well, you know? So so there’s like 5 to 10 books. Maybe I’d go through those books and I’d be stuck without books for like six months, and I wouldn’t buy Kindle books because, you know, I’m not paying for something that I can’t hold.
00:51:09:15 – 00:51:09:48
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:51:09:53 – 00:51:28:46
Kjell Vandevyvere
And I did that for 2 or 3 years. And then one solution I found was, why don’t I read three books? You know, you can read the classics on Kindle for free. So I started reading the Russian like novels, and there were long, so I got a lot of reading. But I’m also like, sure, what the word is.
00:51:28:46 – 00:51:52:53
Kjell Vandevyvere
These are completionist. Yeah. So I start reading something on, I feel like I need to finish it under only the only two books that I started reading and I didn’t finish, and I still got them around here somewhere, the two Spanish books, because I always speak Spanish. And I don’t know, they just don’t move forward. And I’ve still got them around, like, hoping that one day I’ll finish reading them, but I’m not sure if I will.
00:51:52:53 – 00:51:58:59
Agent Palmer
So how many languages can you read? Like not speak, but how many languages can you read?
00:51:59:04 – 00:52:26:18
Kjell Vandevyvere
That’s a fun question because I can read way more. I can speak. So, my mother tongue is is Dutch. It’s actually like, kind of like a dialect. So that’s Dutch. I can read Dutch, I can read English and Spanish and I can speak that language is pretty well. I can also read German because it’s very similar to Dutch, but I can’t speak it as well because the grammar is a lot more complicated.
00:52:26:29 – 00:52:39:42
Kjell Vandevyvere
Like I had it in school. But you know, I forgot much. Sure, I can read French, I can speak a bit of French, and then many languages like these are all Roman languages. So French, Italian and Portuguese.
00:52:39:42 – 00:52:40:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:52:40:22 – 00:52:50:46
Kjell Vandevyvere
So I won’t say that I can read fiction in in Portuguese or Italian, like give me like the newspaper probably understand what what it’s about.
00:52:50:49 – 00:53:12:28
Agent Palmer
Do you enjoy reading in those other like I mean I ask the question so I can set you up for like, you know, does it matter? Like if I gave you a choice, like, here’s a book, you’re gonna like it, but you can read it in any language you want. Like, do you have a like would you you know, what would you pick.
00:53:12:33 – 00:53:15:02
Kjell Vandevyvere
The original if I could understand the original.
00:53:15:04 – 00:53:15:39
Agent Palmer
All right.
00:53:15:44 – 00:53:38:28
Kjell Vandevyvere
So so I try to read either good French or French orders. And I’ve read a few of those books in English, but I’m, you know, why not read it in French? No, I understand French. I’m, I’ll understand it better if I read in English. But, you know, like, if you’re if I have to read on on Kindle anyway, I can I, I’ve got direct access to a dictionary.
00:53:38:28 – 00:53:55:35
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah. So while I’m reading and I don’t understand this word and this means that I don’t understand the sentence, so I’ll, I’ll look it up so I’ve read I think it was this stuff where, Oh, maybe it was Victor Hugo. Like I read one French book, at the start of the year, and I’ve got a few.
00:53:55:35 – 00:54:00:22
Kjell Vandevyvere
I’ve got a Portuguese book in the list as well, but I want to read. I’m not sure how it will go, but I want to give it a try.
00:54:00:25 – 00:54:20:03
Agent Palmer
Do you do you notice, any differences in writing style from from language to language to language? Because obviously, I mean, we started off like a while ago talking about cultural colloquialisms and stuff. So obviously, yeah, writing is going to be slightly different. Do you notice that.
00:54:20:08 – 00:54:48:42
Kjell Vandevyvere
I’m I don’t think I’m in a good place to reply because like, those books that I’ve read in other languages are books from the past. Okay. You know, when when did Victor Hugo live? I’m not even sure. But I think it’s almost a century ago, you know? Okay. And I read they’re not there is not a very big Dutch, like set of good old, like, classic books that are aren’t that many like the public is not the audience is not as big.
00:54:48:42 – 00:54:57:20
Kjell Vandevyvere
So the number of writers isn’t as big as well. And I’ve not read too many, so to, like, give a good comparison.
00:54:57:25 – 00:55:10:46
Agent Palmer
I mean, do do most authors want to do it in English anyway? Like, I’m, I’m presuming the audience is slightly bigger if you do. If you write in English, I’m guessing.
00:55:10:50 – 00:55:37:17
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, I, I think so. So, I don’t know, like I would write a book in English. Okay. I’m not sure why, but I feel that I anyway, I, I do all my writing in English. I’m not even sure if I’ve ever written and published something in Dutch. It’s my mother tongue. Like, apart from everything. Like they pay me to write like most of my paid work is in Dutch, but what I write for myself, or coffee in pens is usually in English.
00:55:37:22 – 00:55:46:49
Agent Palmer
I wonder if I mean, I wonder just as an experiment, like if you wrote a post in Dutch. Yeah, let’s see what would happen.
00:55:46:54 – 00:55:48:33
Kjell Vandevyvere
I don’t have an audience.
00:55:48:38 – 00:55:51:40
Agent Palmer
We don’t. You don’t know, actually. How do you know?
00:55:51:40 – 00:56:09:16
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, I might do, but where do I find them? You know, because the people that follow me on Twitter, for example. Well, they’re not I’ve, I’ve talked to three people that know Dutch. I’ve got some kind of connection with them. But there a three people out of just under 2000. So I don’t know that that’s fair.
00:56:09:21 – 00:56:09:39
Agent Palmer
That’s fine.
00:56:09:45 – 00:56:13:45
Kjell Vandevyvere
I could put it on Facebook. But you know, Facebook is a different place.
00:56:13:45 – 00:56:42:46
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. No, I all right. I guess, I want to get back to you writing this book for a moment. Do, it it do you have it in your head like, not bucket list, but, like, I want to write it. Are you actively looking for that topic now? Are you, like, you know, do you know, do you have, like, you know, by the time I’m 50, I want to have this book published.
00:56:42:46 – 00:56:48:15
Agent Palmer
Like, do you have those goals set for yourself or is it just kind of like when it happens, it happens.
00:56:48:20 – 00:57:15:45
Kjell Vandevyvere
I’ve got a vague idea about everything here. So, where to start? Okay, I know I actually have one idea. I’ve got one book that’s like, waiting to be written, but now is not a good time. Okay, let me tell you why. The book I want to write is how do you start? Like writing a book? Like, how do you self-publish your first nonfiction book?
00:57:15:45 – 00:57:26:04
Kjell Vandevyvere
That’s kind of like the book I want to write. Okay, now, what’s the problem? I’ve never written a book. No one’s going to buy a book about how to write a book from someone who has never written a book, am I right?
00:57:26:09 – 00:57:28:19
Agent Palmer
I mean, it’s fair. Yeah.
00:57:28:24 – 00:57:52:36
Kjell Vandevyvere
So, I feel like with all these interviews that I’ve been doing, I’m in the right place to start writing this book. But it can’t be the first book I’m writing. And on top of that, if I write another book first and I’m documenting the entire process of writing that book, then, then the other book is going to have like an added layer, and it’s going to be worth so much more because it’s going to have personal stories in there as well.
00:57:52:36 – 00:57:53:57
Agent Palmer
100%. Yeah.
00:57:54:02 – 00:58:20:00
Kjell Vandevyvere
So I’ve got this idea. And when is it going to happen? I don’t know, maybe in five years, maybe in ten, but hopefully not longer. But what I need is that other like that first book, and that’s something I’ve been working on in a conversation like this one. So I was on my first podcast on Saturday. So this is the second time, I’m like, I’m doing this like a long form podcasting thing in which I talk about coffee and pens.
00:58:20:04 – 00:58:31:46
Kjell Vandevyvere
And I had I think it came from that conversation like, why don’t you, kind of publish a compilation about the first 50 interviews that you do something like that.
00:58:31:46 – 00:58:32:04
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:58:32:14 – 00:59:06:36
Kjell Vandevyvere
So I thought, Tim Ferriss has these two books. Tribe of men is, and, do two have Titans? I’ve heard about the books. I’ve seen parts of it, but I’ve never read them. I just bought them yesterday. So they’ll arrive in Belgium and hopefully I will go to Belgium next month, so I’ll be able to read them. I so I’m thinking, you know, okay, so when I hit 50, interviews and they’re going to be 50 interviews with people that talk about the same topic, which is writing books, can I compile all those interviews in a book like Tribe of Mentors, like Tribe of Others, and take a bit like you know, try to write.
00:59:06:40 – 00:59:35:08
Agent Palmer
Off the top of my head because it’s a book I’ve read. Marc Maron did the same thing, right? You know, waiting for the punch is just excerpts from the podcast in different sections. Yeah, it’s it’s something similar. So, yeah, I mean, it exists and it’s out there and, I mean, I almost I want to ask you, like, why don’t you write your story?
00:59:35:12 – 00:59:55:15
Agent Palmer
Because we all have a story. I mean, I mean, one of the things that I feel like because people who and you probably get this a little bit, but you have a niche. I’m just talking to anybody. But I get like, well, who are you talking to? And I’ll say, Joe Smith. And they’ll go, why? I like, because he’s got a story like that.
00:59:55:15 – 01:00:08:24
Agent Palmer
They period the end. So we all have that. So I mean, if you wanted to like your your autobiography up to a point, right. It it’s it’s there as another story you can tell.
01:00:08:28 – 01:00:28:03
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah. It’s funny you bring this up and I’m not sure if we talked about this before. If I’m just getting things mixed up in my head because I was writing about this just before the interview. So someone said, why don’t you write like I saw he has a now page. What’s a now page? Instead of like, a blog about page or project or anything?
01:00:28:03 – 01:00:29:54
Kjell Vandevyvere
It’s just this is what I’m working on right now.
01:00:29:56 – 01:00:30:34
Agent Palmer
Okay.
01:00:30:39 – 01:00:51:29
Kjell Vandevyvere
So I saw that like, okay, this is fun. I should write a now page. So I wrote a now page. And one of the things I put on that now page is that I’m kind of writing an autobiography, but I’m not sure if it’s the right thing. So let’s go back again about a month and a half maybe, and I think I may have mentioned this.
01:00:51:29 – 01:01:10:05
Kjell Vandevyvere
So I’ve got this idea of why don’t you write a thread about like what’s been happening in my life for the past five months, how I got from doing a gap year from volunteering to where I am right now. Like how and how I started writing. So why did I do that? And I got some positive feedback. Okay, cool story.
01:01:10:05 – 01:01:31:10
Kjell Vandevyvere
Like I love to learn more about like this or that. So I took that idea, I put it on my website and I added a few photos and like a little bit more details, you know, people who people read it and it’s like, oh, this is course inspiring. And then I talked with my friend Mike on Friday.
01:01:31:10 – 01:01:56:29
Kjell Vandevyvere
We always have a chat on Friday. We always call each other on Fridays and talk about him on Twitter like we’ve never met in real life, but we’ve got like a cool connection going on. And he said, why don’t you, like, turn that into some kind of autobiography? Like you could write it for your daughter? Yeah. So I’ve kind of been working on that, just like it’s what I have is now maybe 4000 words, probably a bit less.
01:01:56:29 – 01:02:19:24
Kjell Vandevyvere
And it’s spanning about five years. And I just have this idea, like, why not every Saturday if I’m feeling ready for it, and if I have time just to read it again and add a couple of details, like not part by part, which is I try to read everything and add a few details along the way. So I always expanding on the story, but like from from from the top, like not from section by section.
01:02:19:28 – 01:02:36:50
Kjell Vandevyvere
So that’s something I’ve been working on like slowly and I’m not sure if I’ll ever publish it. I don’t think at this moment of time there is a big enough audience for people to read my story, but who knows?
01:02:36:55 – 01:02:41:11
Agent Palmer
You.
01:02:41:16 – 01:03:14:08
Agent Palmer
I don’t think that I can state enough that you don’t mess with a streak, because whether it’s a winning streak, a hitting streak, or a writing streak, crash Davis and Bull Durham says it best. A player on a streak has to respect the streak. And for me, that goes for flow too. If I’m in it, if I’m feeling it, I have to see what fruit it will bear before it ends, because you don’t know when the next one will be coming, but you can still be creative without being on a creative hot streak.
01:03:14:08 – 01:03:38:25
Agent Palmer
Because, as Carl said, there are different kinds of writing and my suggestion to you is that if you are in a rut, writing for someone else, if it’s your job or you know any other reason, then take a break and write for yourself. Writing is like any other skill. The more you do it, the better you get. And it doesn’t matter who you’re writing for.
01:03:38:30 – 01:04:05:21
Agent Palmer
When you’re in the process of writing for exercise. And unfortunately for me at least, the writing that happens in my head is really good and I need to get better at stopping what I’m doing and writing it down so I don’t lose it. It’s not hyperbole that I’ve lost more good ideas than I’ve ever published, at least in the past.
01:04:05:21 – 01:04:36:02
Agent Palmer
The goal is to tip the scales moving forward. So two questions to leave you with one. Are you writing down all of the inspiration from the writing in your head, and have you taken the time to identify who it is you are writing for, or even creating content for? If you can work towards affirming the answers to both of those questions, you may find yourself swimming in content with a larger audience.
01:04:36:06 – 01:04:55:30
Agent Palmer
Let me know how it goes. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 55. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest, Kjell at Calvi.
01:04:55:30 – 01:05:19:12
Agent Palmer
That’s Kjeld Divi and this show at the Palmer Files. For all things Kjell, you can visit coffee and pens.com or Kjell v.com. That’s Kjell V, and on those sites you can find links to his podcast newsletter and read what he’s writing. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer files@gmail.com, and remember, you’re home for all things.
01:05:19:12 – 01:05:26:32
Agent Palmer
Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
01:05:26:36 – 01:05:40:31
Unknown
You.
01:05:40:36 – 01:05:47:25
Unknown
See me.
01:05:47:30 – 01:05:52:50
Unknown
Leave.
01:05:52:55 – 01:06:02:33
Unknown
Me.
01:06:02:38 – 01:06:07:21
Unknown
See?
01:06:07:25 – 01:06:10:10
Agent Palmer
All right. Do you have one final question for me?
01:06:10:14 – 01:06:30:38
Kjell Vandevyvere
I’ll. I’ll just pop the same question I ask at the end of every interview I do. Maybe it’s going to be a bit more difficult because, you know, this has been reversed. But thinking about everything we talked about, you know, everything related to to writing and having a blog and doing the podcast and everything. What is your secret?
01:06:30:43 – 01:06:56:33
Agent Palmer
I don’t know if I have one other than I always I’m a happier person when I’m creating. I won’t say I’m not. You know? Look, I’ve been I’ve been out of work for almost two years now, and depression is kind of exists because you feel like no one’s ever going to hire you. But.
01:06:56:38 – 01:06:57:01
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
01:06:57:03 – 01:07:20:02
Agent Palmer
I have these creative outlets, and I’m always creating, and I go back to when I was fully employed and for the ten years, ten for eight of the ten years of the blog, I was I had a full time job. Yeah. And I would come home and I would write or I would come home and I would edit, or I would come home and I would watch a movie and take notes or read a book or this and the other thing.
01:07:20:13 – 01:07:36:18
Agent Palmer
And then I got into podcasting, you know, I would come home and I would either write or start recording or, you know, creating to me, it’s not secret, but it’s the thing that keeps me going. I enjoy hitting publish.
01:07:36:23 – 01:07:36:42
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah.
01:07:36:53 – 01:07:48:35
Agent Palmer
And then moving on to the next thing, because there’s always a next thing if you’re always creating, and it’s I don’t know if it’s a secret, but it’s definitely my motivation.
01:07:48:40 – 01:07:49:36
Kjell Vandevyvere
Like, yeah.
01:07:49:41 – 01:08:22:39
Agent Palmer
It keeps me sane. It doesn’t matter. Actually, I feel like it might actually. You can tell when I’m depressed or, having a rough time because I will double down on work, so I. Okay, I went through a breakup a few years ago, and I had more blog post output. Like, in order to get through it, just to be like, I just have to be doing something.
01:08:22:39 – 01:08:45:06
Agent Palmer
Let me create something. And so for me, it’s just always be creating. That’s really it, you know? Yeah, I go through some writer’s block and I have some issues and it’s like, I don’t feel like editing today, but I always want to be creating something. And for me, that’s kind of where it ends. Like, or it doesn’t end.
01:08:45:11 – 01:08:48:57
Agent Palmer
That’s why it never ends is because I always want to be creating something.
01:08:49:01 – 01:09:09:44
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, I think that that problem of being a prolific creator, you can’t stop. And when you do stop, that’s what I experience. Something’s missing. When I’m not writing something, I’m publishing something. Something’s missing. Like something’s. Something’s not right. I don’t feel.
01:09:09:44 – 01:09:35:50
Agent Palmer
Fulfilled. That’s the that’s the key word right there. Fulfilled. Like I feel like, you know what? I’m not going to get into the whole, like, every day is a gift thing that that’s depending, you know, that’s that’s an outlook. That’s a, that’s a, it’s a philosophy. But for me, if I accomplished something in a day, I wrote a blog post, I edited a blog post, I recorded an episode.
01:09:35:50 – 01:09:57:40
Agent Palmer
I edited an episode, I wrote an intro. Or if I did something, created something out of nothing. Basically. Then I did something that day and I accomplished something that day. And then that day was good. Yeah, it doesn’t matter what else happened. I did something.
01:09:57:45 – 01:10:22:07
Kjell Vandevyvere
It it’s addictive. You know, you start it and you can’t stop. And sometimes I wonder or I ask myself why did I even start creating. Like I could be perfectly happy consuming all the time, but not anymore because I got to know what it feels like to start writing and sharing it. And I look around at people and they’re on their phones.
01:10:22:07 – 01:10:46:52
Kjell Vandevyvere
They’re just like this the entire day. Yeah, like, how do you do it? How can you wake up in the morning, stare at your phone, maybe go to work for a while or attend your class for a while? Get back home, Sarah your phone again, not create anything and still feel fulfilled. I can’t, I don’t understand why. Maybe it was the same when I was younger, but now I don’t know anymore how that happens.
01:10:46:52 – 01:10:47:22
Kjell Vandevyvere
I, I.
01:10:47:24 – 01:11:15:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah, a few, many episodes ago at this point, I had a guest on and Rebecca is an audio engineer, and we talked about the world in terms of inputs and outputs. We’re always inputting stuff. We’re always consuming. But what are you putting out? Right. And yeah, you know, optim, you know, optimistic and in probably some made up world, we’re 5050.
01:11:16:07 – 01:11:39:03
Agent Palmer
We’re consuming as much as we’re putting out. But we’re you know, we’re only one person and and it’s hard to do that. So I think because I’ve had a lot of time to think since that episode, maybe you’re looking at 3 to 1, like if I consume three things, I want to put at least one thing back into the world.
01:11:39:08 – 01:11:56:46
Agent Palmer
And for better or worse, I may or may not hit that ratio on a given week. But yeah, I try because I want to put more out there and and so yeah, it’s you know, what, what are you putting out there. And we’re, we’re both doing that or we’re trying to.
01:11:56:51 – 01:12:20:48
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah. Yeah I think it’s more in terms of the time spent than the amount of like like the number because like, yeah, like looking at the number I consume a lot more than I than what I write because I’m subscribed to 20 plus newsletters. And I read all of them on Sunday. And then I opened the best links, and I read all of that, probably on Monday or Tuesday.
01:12:20:53 – 01:12:41:05
Kjell Vandevyvere
So but that’s 20 newsletters I’m reading. That’s probably 20 articles or blog posts that I’m reading then. So those are 40 pieces of content I’m not going to put out. Then 13 pages of content myself. Yeah. Because unfortunately, of those 40 things that I read, maybe only 5 or 6 were worthwhile. Yeah. But the problem is, it’s not always the same that are worthwhile.
01:12:41:10 – 01:12:49:14
Kjell Vandevyvere
You know, it’s not that. Week one I get something from newsletter A and week two newsletter. Again, that’s not how it works.
01:12:49:19 – 01:12:50:26
Agent Palmer
I don’t know until you.
01:12:50:26 – 01:12:50:49
Kjell Vandevyvere
Click the.
01:12:50:49 – 01:12:53:13
Agent Palmer
Link and you don’t know until I read the article.
01:12:53:13 – 01:12:56:37
Kjell Vandevyvere
Yeah, yeah. So it’s more about time spend.
01:12:56:42 – 01:12:57:14
Agent Palmer
I like it.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).