Episode 168 featuring the return of Edward O’Hare, who has been my guide through this Star Trek journey, and we’re going to reflect on my adventures with the crew of Voyager, before I embark on the next mission: Enterprise.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Other Links
Palmer’s Trek: Star Trek: Voyager
Even Outdated Legacy of Winning is Useful
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
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–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:03 – 00:00:19:45
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com Palmer’s trek continues with Star Trek Voyager. Even outdated legacy of winning is useful, and I do believe Jamie pulled back the curtain on the publishing industry enough to save me for now. This is The Palmer Files episode 168, featuring the return of Edward O’Hare, who is back as my guide through this Star Trek journey.
00:00:19:45 – 00:00:29:28
Agent Palmer
And we’re going to reflect on my adventures with the crew of Voyager before I embark on my next mission enterprise. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:29:33 – 00:00:49:42
Edward O’Hare
There are TNG people, there are DS9 people, and then there’s there’s a very loud Voyager crowd. What’s great about Star Trek is boldly going where no one has gone before. And from this point on, we pretty much boldly go to all the places we’ve already seen.
00:00:49:46 – 00:01:03:34
Agent Palmer
Palmers Trek: The Final Frontier. These are my voyages on a continuing mission to explore Star Trek to seek out television series and movies. To boldly go where many fans have gone before.
00:01:03:39 – 00:01:08:49
Edward O’Hare
That is the most toxic relationship in Trek history.
00:01:08:54 – 00:01:35:20
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 168th episode is The Return of Edward O’Hare, a friend and returning guest for another Star Trek discussion. This time, Voyager and the end of my 90s Trek era. Aside from discussing Star Trek Voyager and its characters, we do talk about the Next Generation in Deep Space Nine, as those shows combined with Voyager make up what is considered 90s Trek.
00:01:35:29 – 00:01:56:44
Agent Palmer
As a reminder, the blog post mentioned in The Open about Voyager is written before my conversation with Ed. Then he gets to see a draft of my thoughts and we record what you’re about to hear. Is Janeway the best captain? Is Torres the best engineer? Is Voyager a hostile workplace? Is Neelix the Wesley Crusher of Voyager, who has the best character arc on board?
00:01:56:49 – 00:02:12:46
Agent Palmer
The answers to these questions and more await you ahead. But before we get there, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen to her afterward, you can find all related ways to contact Ed and myself in the show notes. As always, don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Jim palmer.com.
00:02:12:46 – 00:02:23:37
Agent Palmer
And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:23:42 – 00:02:27:58
Agent Palmer
And I have I finished my voyage.
00:02:28:03 – 00:02:29:04
Agent Palmer
I’m done I.
00:02:29:09 – 00:02:43:36
Agent Palmer
I I that’s the end of the seven. The 21 seasons now. There were a few movies sprinkled in for next gen, but like, I’m officially done with like, super long Star Trek series now.
00:02:43:41 – 00:02:46:00
Edward O’Hare
You finished 90s Trek eat.
00:02:46:05 – 00:02:53:37
Agent Palmer
Okay, before we before you say that, though, like, isn’t didn’t it overlap with enterprise a little bit?
00:02:53:42 – 00:02:54:22
Edward O’Hare
No.
00:02:54:27 – 00:02:55:21
Agent Palmer
No, not at all.
00:02:55:21 – 00:02:59:04
Edward O’Hare
Enterprise. Enterprise began the next fall okay.
00:02:59:04 – 00:03:15:24
Agent Palmer
So it’s true. So but there’s such a. Oh, well okay. Well well that that. Yeah. But so, so this is officially the end of 90s because obviously it started in the 90s. It ends in. Yeah, 2000. Whatever. I, I, I think it’s my favorite of all the 90s Trek.
00:03:15:29 – 00:03:18:54
Edward O’Hare
Wow. Okay. Good for you.
00:03:18:54 – 00:03:39:17
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah. They’re very you know, I mean, there are TNG people, there are DS9 people, and then there’s, there’s a very loud Voyager crowd. So, you know, I to be honest, I’m not surprised. I see this this definitely feels like the kind of show that we that would drive with your sensibilities. In a lot of ways.
00:03:39:17 – 00:04:06:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I I’ve been hearing it from not you so much, but support has been asking me as I’ve gotten closer and closer and closer to the end, where it where where it fit, where it falls. And I just, I moved it up the list, like, quite a bit. And and I think it’s because for me, this is the closest I’ve ever come to the original series.
00:04:06:40 – 00:04:35:30
Agent Palmer
Like, it feels like we are truly, boldly going where no one’s been before for for obvious reasons. But. And maybe they needed that, and I, I, I can say this, to you, and I mean no disrespect, but like, by comparison, like, now, I now I have like, I was not that hot on next gen. And then I watched DS9 and I got less hot on next gen.
00:04:35:30 – 00:05:00:02
Agent Palmer
And then I watched Voyager, which I really like, like got even less hot on next Gen. And I think I figured I finally figured out why I’m so not hot on next gen. And okay, part of it is a little bit of something that you said, which is it didn’t find its footing until season three. So it didn’t have seven full seasons like Deep Space Nine and Voyager did of knowing what it was doing.
00:05:00:07 – 00:05:37:26
Agent Palmer
But I also think next gen sits firmly halfway between the politics and, the, Inter species, civilization intrigue of next gen and the exploratory of Voyager. But it doesn’t. But it doesn’t do either exceptionally well. And that’s a separate argument for another time. I think maybe it’s the writing specifically is better because Voyager is truly exploring, and DS9 is truly just doing the the politics religion thing.
00:05:37:31 – 00:05:45:54
Agent Palmer
And I think next gen tries to do both. But by comparison, the other two shine at what they do.
00:05:45:59 – 00:06:12:12
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah. I mean, the thing to remember is next Gen was really like literally just meant to be the next generation of enterprise adventures. It’s meant to be, you know, the original series but updated for the 80s. And because Gene Roddenberry hadn’t really worked in television for a couple decades and, or probably a decade and a half.
00:06:12:17 – 00:06:13:11
Edward O’Hare
In.
00:06:13:16 – 00:06:36:55
Edward O’Hare
Just the the sort of ownership that went with that series, it took a while to figure out what it was. Yeah. And to sort of get used to it. So, you know, it’s why I always say the first two seasons, the first two seasons are rough. And, you know, to a certain extent, I would say that’s also true on Deep Space Nine and Voyager.
00:06:37:00 – 00:06:51:16
Edward O’Hare
But yeah. Yeah, it’s really just like, okay, we have the Star Trek concept. Let’s just kind of transport it. And it took a while to figure out, whereas Deep Space Nine, it was straight. Okay. We’re not boldly going. We’re not exploring.
00:06:51:18 – 00:06:53:21
Agent Palmer
No, we’re boldly state.
00:06:53:26 – 00:07:21:54
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Yes, we’re yes, we’re on a space station. So it’s it’s much more localized. And the way they sort of brought, you know, war and religion into it. And the whole mission was Voyager is first off, next gen and Deep Space Nine were first run syndication. Okay. And Voyager was meant to be the anchor of the UPN, the United Paramount.
00:07:21:58 – 00:07:23:49
Edward O’Hare
So when it launched, that.
00:07:23:49 – 00:07:30:50
Agent Palmer
Means it didn’t have first run syndication. Eventually it got it. But it didn’t start out that.
00:07:30:50 – 00:07:49:14
Edward O’Hare
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. So so it was on a network, you know, Grant granted it was it was the sixth network. The fifth or sixth network. I forget if it came before or after WB, but they were both around the same time. Yeah. And it was meant to be, you know, the anchor of UPN.
00:07:49:14 – 00:07:53:10
Edward O’Hare
This was, it was, you know, the flagship show.
00:07:53:15 – 00:08:02:05
Agent Palmer
How did it you I actually didn’t look at ratings at all. Do you just have a general like, did it at the time? Was it well-received?
00:08:02:10 – 00:08:30:26
Edward O’Hare
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was solid. It was solid. Actually, I, I just, was looking at a retrospective yesterday and, the premiere episode had 18 million viewers, which would which is about on par with CBS’s top shows today. Okay. You know, although that would have been, you know, probably middling for, you know, NBC or CBS, at the time.
00:08:30:26 – 00:08:34:06
Agent Palmer
But it would have been gangbusters for UPN at the time, too.
00:08:34:11 – 00:09:03:19
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah. And it was consistently the the highest rated show on, on UPN, pretty much until WWF SmackDown came along. Okay. But yeah. No, it was it was it was always it was always consistent in the ratings, you know, and and doing, you know, on, on par even better than Deep Space Nine. Deep Space Nine is always kind of sort of it’s like a black sheep of 90s track because it was never not on the same time as a different show.
00:09:03:19 – 00:09:04:12
Agent Palmer
Well.
00:09:04:17 – 00:09:06:54
Agent Palmer
Was it on, by the way? Like, well like.
00:09:07:02 – 00:09:09:26
Edward O’Hare
Well, no, that’s what I’m saying. It was syndication.
00:09:09:26 – 00:09:12:44
Agent Palmer
No, no, no I know, but what was it on like I know.
00:09:12:49 – 00:09:16:52
Edward O’Hare
Yeah I don’t know. So basically like the way syndication works.
00:09:16:57 – 00:09:17:37
Edward O’Hare
Is.
00:09:17:37 – 00:09:20:44
Edward O’Hare
You go to all individual affiliates.
00:09:20:44 – 00:09:28:43
Agent Palmer
So this wasn’t it didn’t like just air on like USA and then other networks at this.
00:09:28:48 – 00:09:32:11
Edward O’Hare
No no no you never hold it. Yeah.
00:09:32:20 – 00:09:55:12
Edward O’Hare
So you know I can tell you on in New York, Next Gen and Deep Space Nine aired on Wpix, which ended up being the which is now the CW affiliate. But basically they would go in and and different, you know, all the TV stations in each market would bid for the rights to air the show in that area.
00:09:55:24 – 00:10:16:14
Edward O’Hare
Okay. So, you know, some in some places it would be on the Fox network. In some places it would be on WB or UPN, and it was up to the affiliates when they would air them. So, you know, sometimes it would be Sunday night at 7:00 in New York, but if it was in Detroit, you may watch it on Fox.
00:10:16:14 – 00:10:17:45
Edward O’Hare
You know.
00:10:17:49 – 00:10:18:42
Agent Palmer
Tuesday, those.
00:10:18:42 – 00:10:40:22
Edward O’Hare
Days, five or something like that, you know, it was whatever it was up to the affiliates, which is also why they were very much against serialized storytelling for next gen. They wanted just complete episodes that you could air out of order and have them still make sense. Which is how deep Space Nine kind of broke that mold we get.
00:10:40:22 – 00:10:47:35
Agent Palmer
And Voyager kind of follows that. Yeah, maybe, maybe I’ll a lot more then Deep Space Nine did.
00:10:47:35 – 00:11:03:32
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. And will Voyager because it’s on a network, you know, and it’s airing the same time every week in every market. They, they sort of, you know, could be more consistent with that. And also it’s, you know, they didn’t want to go as dark as Deep Space Nine.
00:11:03:37 – 00:11:29:15
Agent Palmer
But they, you know what? But they absolutely did. Like, I, I have my notebook and I, I don’t need to look at it. I know there was and I know this is not necessarily an equal thing, but there’s at least two episodes that I wrote Mash like, which for DS9, I did like a lot like DS9 reminds me of Mash in the the visceral way for War a lot.
00:11:29:20 – 00:11:33:37
Agent Palmer
But Voyager didn’t stay away from that either, though.
00:11:33:44 – 00:11:49:27
Edward O’Hare
No, no, no, I mean, it’s Star Trek, so there’s there’s always there’s always going to be a heavy sensibility. And I would say a lot of Voyager episodes have, you know, there are a lot more episodes that have more of like a horror movie vibe.
00:11:49:32 – 00:12:27:45
Agent Palmer
Oh, God, the Space nine. So I’m trying to figure this out. Right. So there were 18 two parters in Voyager, and I. I only know that because I counted it up for the post. Yeah. And I have to imagine at least half of them are horror. Are just mini horror movies, right? Like, like The Year of Hell might be the one everybody thinks of, but there are so many other like two parters that have if aren’t if if they aren’t horror movies, they all have massive horror elements where it’s like horror for at least half of these.
00:12:27:51 – 00:12:31:28
Agent Palmer
Yeah, they really went ham with some of that stuff.
00:12:31:37 – 00:12:55:59
Edward O’Hare
Also a big part of that, the, the showrunner for, most of the second half of, of the series, Brannon Braga, who kind of cut his teeth on horror. He’s he’s much more of a horror movie fan. I know he co-wrote a draft of Freddy versus Jason, you know, and kind of a lot of his other work kind of have that, you know, he’s kind of like what?
00:12:56:00 – 00:13:06:30
Edward O’Hare
You know, Larry Charles was on Seinfeld, where he he wanted to delve into a lot of those storylines so that that checks more with Brannon Braga sensibilities.
00:13:06:35 – 00:13:07:17
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:13:07:22 – 00:13:08:07
Agent Palmer
Anyway, just.
00:13:08:07 – 00:13:23:01
Edward O’Hare
Just a really quick to go back to what I was saying before, about Deep Space Nine. The first two seasons it shared with Next Generation, and then Voyager premiered in the middle of the Space Nine’s third season. Okay, so,
00:13:23:06 – 00:13:42:32
Agent Palmer
And it launches from Deep Space Nine, which I guess was the crossover enough, I guess I look, I get that we have flung them far away from everyone else, but I guess we needed an anchor point because didn’t I know there’s a TNG kind of crossover with Deep Space Nine, but it wasn’t during the pilot.
00:13:42:37 – 00:13:45:27
Edward O’Hare
Well, Picard does show up in the pilot. Okay. Space nine.
00:13:45:27 – 00:13:57:29
Agent Palmer
All right, so there’s a so for all three of these shows, it especially the latter two for DS9 and Voyager, there is a legitimate handing of the torch in the pilot episode, kind of.
00:13:57:34 – 00:13:59:55
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
00:14:00:00 – 00:14:26:33
Edward O’Hare
You know, in a big thing with, with Voyager is, is they wanted to they knew they wanted to be on a ship. They wanted to go exploring, but they didn’t want to just make it a clone of next generation. So they were trying to figure out a unique angle and to have them far flung on the other side of the island, on the other side of the universe, and unable to communicate with Starfleet or call for backup.
00:14:26:38 – 00:14:32:25
Edward O’Hare
In essence, that was their way in to give to, to give a different type of show.
00:14:32:25 – 00:15:09:37
Agent Palmer
But, well, it’s funny to hear you say that, though, because in the latter, especially the last three seasons, we get a lot of Lieutenant Barclay. We get a healthy amount of Deanna Troi with him, depending on the episode. And Q shows up like what? Not once a season like it’s not as regular as it is on, TNG, but Q shows up enough that, like, eventually he has a kid who he tells Janeway is his Aunt Kathy, you know, and it’s just like, yeah.
00:15:09:37 – 00:15:28:28
Agent Palmer
And there is a part of me like when he when when that episode happens and they show he shows up with his kid in like season seven, I want to say it felt like, okay, we got to do this one more time. Like, we’re not we gotta wait, you know, before we run out of this, we need to bring Q back just at least one more time.
00:15:28:33 – 00:15:47:15
Agent Palmer
But there it. I think I understand that I was reticent to like. Q for the beginning of TNG, but with that foundation, the way they wrote Q in his few Voyager episodes, I actually really liked.
00:15:47:15 – 00:16:03:12
Edward O’Hare
Yes, yes, yeah. And they were skeptical of bringing Q because he’d been in an episode of Deep Space Nine, and that kind of flopped. But, I thought the way that they brought him in in, I think the episodes called Death Wish, where, Quinn wants to die, and then later on they had him show up a couple other times.
00:16:03:12 – 00:16:16:00
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, I so I thought it was it was brilliantly used and, it made more sense to kind of, you know. Q these these guys are trapped. I have a captive audience. So I could do whatever I want with them.
00:16:16:00 – 00:16:17:45
Agent Palmer
That’s true. Yeah.
00:16:17:49 – 00:16:53:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And also, I okay, so I, I need to go back and I guess rescind a comment I made two episodes ago with you because I said the Borg weren’t scary, during our entire TNG episode. And while they aren’t necessarily, the opponent that they’re made out to be in next gen in Voyager, they are absolutely a formidable, opponent, so to speak.
00:16:53:11 – 00:17:08:16
Agent Palmer
For the for the for the Starfleet. And I. It’s so weird because even the next gen movies don’t do justice to what they got to flesh out in some, especially in some of the two parts that are Borg related in Voyager.
00:17:08:18 – 00:17:14:57
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. And I think a big part of it. Well, I mean, First Contact is really, the reason for a lot of that.
00:17:15:02 – 00:17:15:20
Edward O’Hare
Because.
00:17:15:20 – 00:17:39:27
Edward O’Hare
When after first contact happened, which which I think is, is a great Borg story, and definitely the best next gen movie. Yeah, it’s sort of open opened the door for that. And they specifically waited until after that movie came out to introduce them on Voyager. Okay. But that meant that they they could use all of the costumes and makeup and sets from Star Trek First Contact on Voyager.
00:17:39:31 – 00:18:02:56
Edward O’Hare
So it gave it a much higher production value that they were able to utilize in making those episodes. But definitely the character of Seven of Nine and everything else. Absolutely. They really, you know, the action kind of crack the surface with that species and Voyager really fleshed out almost to a point where a lot of people complained that they did too much with the Borg.
00:18:03:01 – 00:18:06:55
Edward O’Hare
But, you know, I, I, you know, that’s that’s what people to judge.
00:18:07:07 – 00:18:25:32
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I, I and I have to say, you were right, know, I think during the, I didn’t, I don’t, I didn’t listen. But I remember talking to you about food at the end of the Deep Phase nine episode, and you were like, just wait.
00:18:25:37 – 00:18:27:38
Agent Palmer
Just wait.
00:18:27:43 – 00:18:32:35
Agent Palmer
And I. I got my coffee. Captain. Finally.
00:18:32:40 – 00:18:34:35
Agent Palmer
Yes. And.
00:18:34:40 – 00:18:49:09
Agent Palmer
We got a true like, chef, on Voyager. The likes of which we really didn’t see outside of, like, occasionally Cisco cooking is his apartment.
00:18:49:14 – 00:18:53:49
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Yeah, I think I think Riker tried to try to cook once in one episode. Yeah, yeah.
00:18:53:56 – 00:19:09:43
Agent Palmer
But, I mean, he he goes full on, like, let’s. I’m going to go not only get fresh produce from whatever local star system I can, I’m going to bring back the local recipe to, and, you know.
00:19:09:48 – 00:19:30:31
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let’s, let’s do a quick run through of the characters, okay. Of of the main characters and give me a breakdown of your thoughts of each one. Let’s, let’s start with our captain, Kathryn Janeway, played by Kate Mulgrew. Yeah. Who actually was a last minute replacement. I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but.
00:19:30:35 – 00:19:31:32
Edward O’Hare
Just.
00:19:31:37 – 00:19:44:14
Edward O’Hare
John, we old, shot two days on set as Captain Nicole Janeway. She was a French-Canadian actress, who’d mainly done movies and wasn’t able to.
00:19:44:14 – 00:19:45:21
Edward O’Hare
Hack.
00:19:45:26 – 00:19:54:52
Edward O’Hare
The TV lifestyle, and just dropped out. And, they brought in Kate Mulgrew to replace her. So tell me your thoughts on Captain Janeway.
00:19:54:52 – 00:20:21:51
Agent Palmer
I mean, I, I, I like that I finally have a captain. I can have a cup of coffee with. That’s nice. I, I, I think she might as of now, she might be my favorite captain. And I think part of it is, No, I don’t I don’t know if I’m going to, I don’t I know people like to include Sisko, but he’s not really a captain.
00:20:21:56 – 00:20:36:09
Agent Palmer
So I think compared to just Picard and Kirk, I think she had the heart. I think she had the harder like, like, tours of duty, so to speak. Oh.
00:20:36:19 – 00:20:38:31
Edward O’Hare
And, and I not a doubt, I.
00:20:38:31 – 00:20:49:54
Agent Palmer
I do think that despite that, she might be the one who follows Starfleet closer than the other two in Federation space.
00:20:49:59 – 00:20:51:13
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:20:51:18 – 00:21:11:34
Agent Palmer
Which I, I give her a lot of credit for that. I mean, obviously all, Starfleet captains kind of bend the rules when necessary, but I think she was maybe a little more orthodox. I know, I know, we we may or may not get into this. The marquee says Starfleet. The fleet thing that they start with, which is the meshing of the crew.
00:21:11:34 – 00:21:35:16
Agent Palmer
And that’s a whole I, I understand that, and they all eventually come together and become a family. And that’s it’s wonderful over seven seasons to watch. But they all kind of use Starfleet as a guideline to find equal footing, but then they all kind of relax on it. Every other almost every other character kind of relaxes on it.
00:21:35:25 – 00:22:05:36
Agent Palmer
And Janeway is like, no, like she she doesn’t really like occasionally she bends rules because, like, it’s an impossible situation. But otherwise she is fairly stringent within the orthodoxy of Starfleet for all seven seasons. And it is. Yeah. It is amazing to watch, because I didn’t like I honestly thought, like, if you had asked me during season five, I’d be like, well, eventually she’s just going to soften a lot more.
00:22:05:41 – 00:22:11:10
Agent Palmer
And, you know, like the further we go on, she’s like, no, I’m this is the Starfleet way. We’re we’re.
00:22:12:11 – 00:22:41:32
Edward O’Hare
Well, especially in such in such a desperate situation, she has to keep her resolve. Otherwise, it gives credence for everyone else to slack off. Yeah. So, you know, it’s basically I. I actually think I might agree with you as far as January being my favorite captain, especially. She reminds me a lot of my grandmother. You know, who strict, strict Irishwoman, very determined.
00:22:42:53 – 00:22:57:50
Edward O’Hare
You know, determined resolve, straightforward, and definitely did not suffer fools. And that that’s really the thing. The thing with Jane Ways is she, you know, she doesn’t take it from anybody.
00:22:58:03 – 00:23:24:02
Agent Palmer
No. And I, I like the idea that she holds that personality even when they have the holodeck episodes. And look, they don’t they don’t have a lot of holodeck episode. They have, I guess the normal. I have a lot of holodeck. I feel like the normal amount to me. But she she holds that resolve regardless, which I think is, not.
00:23:24:02 – 00:23:53:17
Agent Palmer
No. You know, sometimes I feel like occasionally they can get lost. Even Picard. Well, you know, but. Yeah. No, this was straight on. Yeah. Really, really fun. And and I think part of it is she did grow, but. And she did change, but she kept that the whole way. And I think that’s that’s pretty that’s pretty impressive for the writers to not.
00:23:53:22 – 00:24:07:35
Agent Palmer
And I say this with the utmost respect, get lazy and be like, well, we’re going to change her up now, you know, because that’s easy. That’s something you can do to just kind of do it. And they didn’t and I, I appreciate that.
00:24:07:40 – 00:24:25:42
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. One of the one other thing I want to mention, because you were, you were talking about the marquee and sort of merging the cruise. Looking back on it, I’m kind of surprised. I feel like that was a lot easier than it could have been. You know, I’m sort of surprised that it.
00:24:25:51 – 00:24:55:57
Agent Palmer
It takes a while, though, like, because, it’s maybe season one is all about kind of merging the cruise, basically. But even into like season three, it’s there’s still like an occasional episode where, like, somebody has a fight and now everybody’s back on their old quote unquote sides again. And so it does drag like it happens, but then it does drag, for a little bit.
00:24:55:57 – 00:25:07:52
Agent Palmer
And, what surprised me about season seven is it came back for an episode in the middle of the last season. And I’m like, what is happening? Are we in?
00:25:07:52 – 00:25:08:40
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:25:08:45 – 00:25:14:35
Agent Palmer
So I’m like, is this a holiday game? Is it like, or am I in a fever dream of something like, what is happening?
00:25:14:35 – 00:25:34:13
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, it kind of comes out of nowhere. And I feel like whenever they bring it up in later seasons, it’s always like one off guest stars who are the problem that we never really come in contact with again? Yeah. You know, and I, I, I would have liked to see Chakotay or B’Elanna Torres be a little bit more, you know, have have more of that conflict.
00:25:34:24 – 00:25:52:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I mean, it I think what happened was they went so hard and heavy into that conflict in the first like ten episodes, that they could have spread it out and done other things, but they chose not to. I think they yeah, I think they put like four highlighters on it in the first couple episode, like where they could have been like, or.
00:25:52:55 – 00:26:03:01
Edward O’Hare
Ease off or even like when Sisko defected. You know, I’m surprised she didn’t have more people following with her, that she didn’t have more marquee people sort of on her side. Yeah, but.
00:26:03:01 – 00:26:12:01
Agent Palmer
She lied about who she was to begin with, so I feel like there a little they kind of wrote it in so people are like, why can’t trust her? Even if she was like.
00:26:12:06 – 00:26:12:20
Agent Palmer
A.
00:26:12:24 – 00:26:20:12
Agent Palmer
Triple agent or something, I yeah. All right. So. Yeah. All right. Janeway. Wonderful. Okay.
00:26:20:17 – 00:26:23:12
Edward O’Hare
What do you think of of Commander Chakotay?
00:26:23:17 – 00:26:46:09
Agent Palmer
He grew on me, like, really grew on me. Like at the beginning. It’s not really like, obviously. I’m glad we just talked about the marquee Starfleet thing, but, like, it, it wasn’t that he was marquee. It felt like they wrote his character in the first little bit. Especially when the tension between those two groups was the highest.
00:26:46:14 – 00:27:12:52
Agent Palmer
He was like, I feel like the weak link in all of those storylines, because he was the one person who was half trying with Janeway to merge the cruise, but then he’d turn around and be like, B’Elanna, we’re going to do it this way, and for a long time until he, for better. Like he was basically playing both sides for a good portion of when that was at its height.
00:27:12:56 – 00:27:54:36
Agent Palmer
And when he finally chose, like, all right, we are going to be one crew. I think they got to do a lot of fun things with him. I think as a as a second in command. By component, I don’t know what you’d compare it on for, for, for Deep Space Nine, but compared to, like, a Riker or a Spock even, I think he might be the, the the most, like, the real number two you’d want because he he’s not like, I understand there’s a running gag from, like, seasons five on for like Riker.
00:27:54:36 – 00:28:17:22
Agent Palmer
How come you don’t have your own command? But Chakotay doesn’t have that baggage of, like, you know what I mean? Like, he’s put in a position. He’s number two, and that’s not changing. And even if it is going to change, it’s not changing until we get home. Right? And I think that him being a just a solid number two, like, I’ll step up when I need to and I’m definitely going to question when I need to because what are you going to do?
00:28:17:22 – 00:28:42:40
Agent Palmer
Like it feels like he can be the most truthful number two that there is in the entire, franchise. And I like that about the character. And then we got a little bit like deep backstory, which was kind of interesting. But I, I really look it was he was a fun character to watch, kind of evolve. But after he stopped playing both sides, in the first couple seasons.
00:28:42:42 – 00:28:54:39
Edward O’Hare
Well, would you be surprised if I told you, Robert Beltran, the actor who played Chakotay, really did not like being on the show and actively was trying to get fired over the last few seasons that that.
00:28:54:39 – 00:29:08:55
Agent Palmer
Is that is surprising. Although he does kind of disappear until like, he’s he’s not really, at the center of storylines from like season five or until the last ten episodes.
00:29:09:08 – 00:29:22:20
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. And I think especially a lot of I mean, he’s, he’s, he’s fine on the show, but I see I feel like a lot of the coattail centric episodes are really not great.
00:29:22:25 – 00:29:24:55
Agent Palmer
Well, they’re the problem is he.
00:29:25:00 – 00:29:26:35
Edward O’Hare
There’s stuff like the fight.
00:29:26:40 – 00:29:49:51
Agent Palmer
They’re solo episodes, right? Like they’re true. They’re they’re truly Chakotay episodes. Like, it’s like she got stuck on a thing with Harry Kim, who is unconscious. And so we’re watching Cody for 35 minutes, and occasionally it’s the rest of the crew trying to save him for ten. Right? Like, it’s just like when they do what you Cody episode like that.
00:29:49:55 – 00:30:07:25
Agent Palmer
Okay, well, I, I hope everybody enjoyed their vacation while they weren’t on set for like, hours on end, you know, like, that’s, But yeah. Eight. Yeah. I still like him is a really good number two. But other than that, like, I don’t know, could have been more interesting. Yes.
00:30:07:36 – 00:30:11:16
Edward O’Hare
All right, B’Elanna Torres, our chief engineer.
00:30:11:28 – 00:30:41:35
Agent Palmer
I, I really, really I so I have the same problem with her early on that I do with the, the that split crew. But I think and I’m skipping ahead a little bit, I think that seven Parrish Torres. These are some of the best C series long character progressions and arcs in all of the franchise so far.
00:30:41:48 – 00:30:47:55
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at the beginning of the series, Blanche Torres is very angry.
00:30:48:00 – 00:30:54:36
Edward O’Hare
Very, very angry. And you.
00:30:54:41 – 00:30:58:42
Edward O’Hare
You do see a lot of growth in her character as as the series goes.
00:30:58:42 – 00:31:34:39
Agent Palmer
And and maybe more to the point, B’Elanna has a turning point episode, like, maybe more so than seven. Maybe has a few, but B’Elanna has maybe two. That really the first one is her coming to grips with being half Klingon. And the second one is her, maybe coming to grips with that again. And, and so I think that the little micro progressions and regressions along the way help those two episodes really kind of stand out.
00:31:34:44 – 00:31:59:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but great engineer. Like, that’s the other thing. Like, I mean, you know, I think you have to put her up with, you know, Scotty in the forge as far as, like, you want somebody to fix your engine, like if you’re if you’re choosing your crew for, like, your, your makeshift, like, Star Trek draft, you’re not going to be upset if somebody took Scotty and somebody took La Forge and you ended up with Torres, you’d be like, all right.
00:32:00:00 – 00:32:02:29
Agent Palmer
Like, this is fine. This is great.
00:32:02:34 – 00:32:04:21
Edward O’Hare
But the one thing.
00:32:04:26 – 00:32:15:23
Edward O’Hare
Torres is the villain is the kind of coworker who it’s like, I really wish, I, you know, you need to take your antidepressants before you go in the room.
00:32:15:27 – 00:32:18:00
Edward O’Hare
You it it could.
00:32:18:00 – 00:32:29:30
Edward O’Hare
Create a very hostile work environment. Why do we put up with this? And then it’s like, no, you look at the results and like, no, she’s the only person who could do this. No. And she has to be in charge.
00:32:29:31 – 00:32:41:32
Agent Palmer
But but surprisingly, she’s the one of all of the women on Voyager. She gets two marriage proposals during the series. Two?
00:32:42:47 – 00:32:47:26
Agent Palmer
Just she just put it out there. No one else. No one else got that kind of play. Yeah.
00:32:51:02 – 00:32:53:28
Edward O’Hare
Our helmsman, Tom Paris.
00:32:53:33 – 00:33:22:05
Agent Palmer
So I think this might be tied with seven for the most drastic character change within an arc, but I, I really like Tom. I, I like Tom because he’s a bad guy that gets a second chance. And spoiler alert, even when he gets married and becomes a dad, he still retains his bad boy stuff like he never hangs up.
00:33:22:05 – 00:33:49:25
Agent Palmer
Childish things at all. There’s an episode where he spend 30 days in the cooler for doing something stupid because he just chose like, but this is what I’m. But that’s what I want to do. So that’s what I’m going to do. And the fact that he still grows and matures and still retains that, like, I don’t know, rebel without a cause, like even when everything else is going so well for him.
00:33:49:30 – 00:33:57:49
Agent Palmer
I truly enjoy that. He just never let that go. He’s like, I’ve got this chip, I’m keeping it. I’m keeping it.
00:33:57:54 – 00:34:15:58
Edward O’Hare
Well, do do you remember Robert Duncan McNeill’s appearance in Next Generation? No. As Cadet Lazcano? And I think it’s the first duty. He was the the Red squad cadet who led the mission. Where the kid, the one cadet was killed. Okay, and ended up being imprisoned.
00:34:15:58 – 00:34:20:19
Agent Palmer
Why couldn’t we just use that character name? Why do we have to rename? Well, here’s the thing.
00:34:20:24 – 00:34:26:56
Edward O’Hare
They. When they were doing the show, they wanted Robert Duncan McNeill, and they or they wanted a Robert Duncan McNeill type.
00:34:26:58 – 00:34:29:04
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:34:29:09 – 00:34:47:42
Edward O’Hare
But they didn’t want to pay the writer of the first duty residuals for a character for, extra residuals for the character that he created. Okay. So they they basically gave him a veiled, you know, backstory that’s slightly different. And a different name.
00:34:47:49 – 00:34:50:16
Agent Palmer
Okay, okay.
00:34:50:20 – 00:34:53:17
Edward O’Hare
But for all intents and purposes, it’s the same character.
00:34:53:22 – 00:34:56:24
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s,
00:34:56:29 – 00:35:04:40
Edward O’Hare
But it’s really, you know, I don’t know if we’re trying to keep clean here, but but for ope, for all you know, we’re not. Tom Perez is a dick. He’s he’s an absolute dick.
00:35:04:42 – 00:35:23:20
Agent Palmer
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah I mean he, he’s. Yeah. But and and the weirdest part about it is he’s every trope, right. Like he, he wants all the women and he wants all the cars and he wants to go very fast. I mean, he’s he is basically a member of Top Gun on the Voyager crew.
00:35:23:20 – 00:35:31:35
Edward O’Hare
But it’s very similar to Bashir in Deep Space Nine in the way where, you know, Bashir for like the first five seasons, like.
00:35:31:40 – 00:35:32:32
Edward O’Hare
God damn.
00:35:32:32 – 00:36:02:18
Edward O’Hare
This guy is horny. Or it’s just, it’s just, like, embarrassing, you know? And then eventually you find out the truth about his augmentation and that gives the character a whole different growth rate. Yeah. Paris, it’s it’s more infuriating because he is that obnoxious fly boy, but he’s actually charming and gets the girls. He’s definitely like the kid in high school who got everything and didn’t appreciate it.
00:36:02:18 – 00:36:06:03
Edward O’Hare
Who? You really just wanted to punch in the face.
00:36:06:08 – 00:36:20:05
Agent Palmer
Also, for the record, based on the interspecies Klingon sex of Deep Space Nine, Tom Paris gets off bruise free on Voyager.
00:36:20:10 – 00:36:22:41
Agent Palmer
Just just saying. Oh,
00:36:22:46 – 00:36:26:04
Edward O’Hare
And that is the most toxic relationship in Trek.
00:36:26:04 – 00:36:28:28
Edward O’Hare
History.
00:36:28:33 – 00:36:36:17
Edward O’Hare
That’s that’s like the B’Elanna Torres fights or like the like. Oh, my God, they’re actually doing this at a birthday party.
00:36:36:21 – 00:36:37:24
Edward O’Hare
Like, you know.
00:36:37:24 – 00:36:41:29
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, it’s that level where it’s like.
00:36:41:34 – 00:36:45:58
Edward O’Hare
Why are they together? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:36:45:58 – 00:37:02:54
Edward O’Hare
But somehow, somehow, they make it work. You do. But again, the character, the character, you do see that character growth over time. And you do it, you, you do end up rooting for for for Paris, you know, but even at the end, you see what?
00:37:02:54 – 00:37:08:00
Edward O’Hare
He’s still a huge dick. Yeah, yeah.
00:37:08:05 – 00:37:13:40
Edward O’Hare
All right, let’s go to our chief of security. Lieutenant Tuvok.
00:37:13:45 – 00:37:25:36
Agent Palmer
He he’s he’s not really like anything that he’s he’s typical Vulcan. And I don’t mean that, like, in a stereotypical way, but, like, he truly is.
00:37:25:41 – 00:37:25:51
Agent Palmer
You.
00:37:25:51 – 00:38:03:56
Agent Palmer
Know, like Spock. In fact, I, I would argue because I, I like to see I’ve, you know, I see the Spock data parable, I think, as the second coming of Spock non-science officer, obviously, but I, I really liked it. I think his, it’s a balance that just feels right in track. But, the weird thing, and I don’t mean to just it’s just all of the Vulcan centric episodes feel, redundant, like we said.
00:38:04:06 – 00:38:28:21
Agent Palmer
Like it feels like everything we’ve already seen, they’re not really, writing new stuff. We do pond fa twice, like we do some of this up. We do the Vulcan mind meld stuff, like it’s just. Okay, we’ve got a Vulcan on board, and I know that there’s he’s a double agent, I guess, or a, for for the Starfleet within the Mach-E, which, again, once that goes away, the rest of that goes away.
00:38:28:35 – 00:38:44:50
Agent Palmer
And we don’t really talk about it until that one episode in season seven. I, I like him, honestly, when he gets the mixed up with Neelix, I was like, are we keeping this character for the rest of the series? This would be wonderful. But that’s.
00:38:44:50 – 00:38:48:09
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah, because I would say he’s.
00:38:48:09 – 00:38:49:55
Edward O’Hare
He he’s he’s.
00:38:49:55 – 00:39:08:57
Edward O’Hare
One of my favorites. Really? The thing with Tuvok, you’ve got to reverse. He’s a full Vulcan. Whereas whereas Spock was Vulcan. Okay, and I wouldn’t put him in the data category. I would say he’s more in line with Wharf or Odo. Where he’s.
00:39:08:57 – 00:39:11:46
Agent Palmer
Odo is a good. That’s a that’s a good comparison there.
00:39:11:51 – 00:39:20:29
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Yeah. Where he’s stalwart, reliable. You know, the Tuvok. Neelix repartee. It’s not as funny as Odo and Quark, but it’s it’s.
00:39:20:42 – 00:39:28:34
Agent Palmer
But it’s this. It’s this. But they’re aiming for the same jokes. Yes. The same odd couple thing.
00:39:28:39 – 00:39:29:12
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:39:29:16 – 00:39:35:05
Agent Palmer
But, yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, it’s he’s just he’s just a member of the crew, like I didn’t. Well, but I.
00:39:35:16 – 00:40:00:04
Edward O’Hare
Love, like, I think, meld is an amazing episode when you get when you see Detective Tuvok, those are some of the. So those are some of the best episodes out there. Yeah, those are pretty. See him put on his put on his on his investigator cap and the the relationship that he has with Lorne Suiter over the course of the, the second and third season, I think I think is fantastic.
00:40:00:08 – 00:40:10:55
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s I’ve pretty good. I mean, I, I want to skip to because next up, I’m putting Neelix because for all of the seriousness.
00:40:10:59 – 00:40:12:39
Agent Palmer
Of the.
00:40:12:44 – 00:40:17:33
Agent Palmer
When they’re following Starfleet protocol with Janeway and Paris.
00:40:17:34 – 00:40:18:54
Agent Palmer
And or.
00:40:18:57 – 00:40:46:11
Agent Palmer
Or, you know, just trying to, anti temper the B’Elanna Torres of the world or the extreme logic of Tuvok. You’ve got Neelix, who is I? I don’t remember if I wrote it or not, but I wrote it somewhere. Which is? He’s basically the Wesley Crusher of Voyager. Because he is your stand in for. Wait. Why is Starfleet like this?
00:40:46:11 – 00:41:01:34
Agent Palmer
Like, what’s the protocol? I kind of want to do more. I’d like to do more. Like, can I do more? And I think that it’s similar. Not the same, but similar to to your Wesley Crusher. But. But instead of being, like, the spoiled kid.
00:41:01:38 – 00:41:02:29
Agent Palmer
He just, you know.
00:41:02:43 – 00:41:18:56
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, I feel like. I feel like there were a lot of missed opportunities with Neelix. Like, if you see him in the pilot, if feels like he’s going to be more of a Wheeler dealer. And I feel like they sort of played him more as a buffoon, as the series went on.
00:41:19:03 – 00:41:30:00
Agent Palmer
They. I mean, they definitely use him as a Wheeler and dealer when it suits them. So it’s like, oh yeah, where’s Neelix? Oh, he’s off bartering for more vegetables. It’s like, all right.
00:41:30:05 – 00:41:30:50
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:41:30:55 – 00:41:44:19
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah, but I just I mean, I feel I feel like, you know, there’s a lot of easy humor that they kind of pull off of Neelix. That sort of lessens the character a bit. I think his whole relationship with cash gets weird.
00:41:44:19 – 00:41:48:54
Agent Palmer
That’s I we’re we’re not. We’re not talking about cast. I’m not. I’m not going there.
00:41:48:57 – 00:41:50:08
Edward O’Hare
I’m not talking about, you.
00:41:50:17 – 00:42:01:33
Agent Palmer
Know, we’re not talking, though, because. Because you know what? That’s that’s like, No. Like just no, no, no. Does anybody. All right. When you talk about West Wing, do you talk about Mandi? No, no you don’t.
00:42:01:35 – 00:42:11:52
Edward O’Hare
All right, all right. Well, I mean, the person I wasn’t expecting to talk about just because that’s sort of the way things go for this. Characters. Harry Kim. Yeah. Ensign Harry Kim.
00:42:11:52 – 00:42:35:38
Agent Palmer
Which the the the who has some, amazing, like, sidekick episodes. Like, as a sidekick, he might be the best sidekick to get lost on a planet with, in all of Voyager. Like, that’s who you want, Harry Kim, you’re going to get separated, and he’s going to show up anyway. Somehow he’s going to show up. But I.
00:42:35:41 – 00:42:54:31
Agent Palmer
I he he’s the one. He’s the one with the least character development of everything. He’s the one who finally, after five, after six whole seasons as an ensign, finally gets his own command and it goes horribly wrong.
00:42:54:36 – 00:42:56:15
Agent Palmer
And it’s like.
00:42:56:20 – 00:43:12:13
Agent Palmer
Oh man. Like, you know what? He he is because of the way they treat him when he’s, palling around with Paris and his lack of romance. He is the down lock, the forge of Voyager.
00:43:12:13 – 00:43:29:49
Edward O’Hare
Oh, absolutely. Even more so for the fact that Garrett Wong, the actor who played Harry Kim, who, by the way, he and Robert Duncan McNeill do a, a a Voyager recap podcast called The Delta Fliers, which is definitely one to check out. All right.
00:43:29:51 – 00:43:31:55
Edward O’Hare
Lobbied for the.
00:43:31:55 – 00:43:48:03
Edward O’Hare
Length of the series for Harry Kim to get a promotion to Lieutenant and never got it because executive producer Rick Berman insisted we need to have an incident on the show.
00:43:48:07 – 00:43:51:09
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, look, he makes up for it. He does even.
00:43:51:09 – 00:43:57:52
Edward O’Hare
I will say even in future series. Harry Kim never getting a promotion becomes a running gag.
00:43:57:57 – 00:44:05:50
Agent Palmer
I was going to say, okay. I mean, he he but he does get to play a massive part in the finale. So I feel like there’s a little redemption for him there.
00:44:05:50 – 00:44:07:34
Edward O’Hare
But yes. Yeah.
00:44:07:36 – 00:44:08:54
Agent Palmer
That’s that’s. Yeah. Yeah yeah.
00:44:08:54 – 00:44:14:57
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. And and he does I will say the, the, the Harry Kim episodes are much better than the Chakotay episodes.
00:44:15:08 – 00:44:15:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:44:15:54 – 00:44:16:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah, they are,
00:44:17:01 – 00:44:17:58
Edward O’Hare
You know, and but he’s.
00:44:17:58 – 00:44:34:53
Agent Palmer
Also, he also is the second in command on almost every downed away mission until, until until seven shows up and the doc gets his mobile emitter. It’s always Harry, Kim, and someone.
00:44:34:58 – 00:44:35:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:44:35:32 – 00:44:37:13
Agent Palmer
But also I love.
00:44:37:13 – 00:44:44:39
Edward O’Hare
Over the course of the series, I see I feel like Paris gets demoted and then promoted twice.
00:44:44:44 – 00:44:46:24
Edward O’Hare
And.
00:44:46:29 – 00:44:50:56
Edward O’Hare
Over, like three or 2 or 3 different times. And Harry Kim just sitting there going.
00:44:50:56 – 00:44:53:28
Edward O’Hare
What the heck? Yeah, yeah that’s pretty.
00:44:53:33 – 00:44:55:38
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s pretty accurate.
00:44:55:42 – 00:44:59:29
Edward O’Hare
All right. The doctor, our emergency medical hologram.
00:44:59:29 – 00:45:28:31
Agent Palmer
I and he he’s got he might have the best arc, character wise, but I, I really like the doctor. And it’s weird to say that because when he is just at the beginning, the emergency medical, when he is straightly just the EMH at the beginning, he’s so annoying. He makes Bashir look like he’s got wonderful, bedside manner and, like, towards the end he basically he he Pinocchios that stuff.
00:45:28:31 – 00:45:52:27
Agent Palmer
He becomes a real boy, kind of. Sort of. Not really. But he’s well-rounded enough to kind of do it. And, it was fun to watch. I think that for the doctor, some of the best episodes are when he’s acting against himself, in especially when he, like, travels to go back and save his creator, who made him in his image.
00:45:52:32 – 00:45:54:00
Agent Palmer
Those that that.
00:45:54:05 – 00:45:54:43
Agent Palmer
Maybe two.
00:45:54:43 – 00:45:56:05
Edward O’Hare
Episodes was fantastic.
00:45:56:17 – 00:46:16:04
Agent Palmer
I mean, that was really good. And I, I gotta say, the stinger at the, at the end of, the, author author episode where he tries to write where there’s just a lot of EMH is mining.
00:46:16:09 – 00:46:17:50
Agent Palmer
Is.
00:46:17:55 – 00:46:41:41
Agent Palmer
Like, tastefully well done. They could have made that much funnier and they went with the serious one. But I, I think the doc was the hologram instead of the hollow episodes. And I know Voyager has quite a few, but I think the doctor episodes were a bit of a crutch towards the latter seasons. Yeah. Just like. All right, well, what can we do with the doctor now?
00:46:41:41 – 00:46:43:15
Agent Palmer
It’s like, all right. Yeah.
00:46:43:20 – 00:46:56:12
Edward O’Hare
I feel like season seven. I feel like they piled on doctor in seven episodes a little too much. And I feel like, you know, there are even a, a couple that they could have held back on.
00:46:56:17 – 00:47:00:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah, probably, but I like it. But I liked it, I.
00:47:00:26 – 00:47:08:01
Edward O’Hare
Like it, yeah, but Robert Ricardo, excellent actor. Maybe, maybe, like, just the best movie credits of anyone on the series.
00:47:08:03 – 00:47:09:00
Agent Palmer
I also think, like.
00:47:09:01 – 00:47:10:45
Edward O’Hare
He’s a he’s a Joe Dante.
00:47:10:45 – 00:47:32:51
Agent Palmer
Regular. It was very weird to watch this series in 2025 when he’s all excited about being in an upcoming Star Trek project, and you just keep seeing on like, socials or like headlines and like geek things like the doctor’s back, calm down, calm down. All right, well.
00:47:32:56 – 00:47:33:14
Agent Palmer
Chill.
00:47:33:14 – 00:47:36:35
Agent Palmer
Out. Let me finish Voyager first. Then you can get all excited about the doctor.
00:47:36:35 – 00:47:38:14
Agent Palmer
Come back. Hey, man.
00:47:38:16 – 00:47:47:13
Edward O’Hare
Hey, man, I, I, you know, next, next month or in January 2026. I’m really looking forward to Star Trek. Starfleet Academy.
00:47:47:13 – 00:47:53:46
Agent Palmer
All right, well, I, I will I will be there in like, 20, 29, by the way things are going. But we’ll see, we’ll see, we’ll see.
00:47:54:16 – 00:48:33:21
Edward O’Hare
So all right. And so that just leaves seven of nine I by Jeri Ryan. Yeah. Now just, just to, to, to preface. So I always say season four is always the turning point in the three shows. The seasons 3 to 4 transfer in next generation. It was the best of both worlds. And I feel like the, you know, next gen was completely changed after that, after that two parter in, Do Space nine, it was the way the warrior when Worf shows up and in Voyager it is Scorpion parts one and two where we meet Seven of Nine.
00:48:33:21 – 00:49:06:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s. And I think that when we talked about like, the Borg being scary and I know there are Borg episodes before Seven of Nine, but we don’t do nearly as quality of Borg episodes until after Seven of Nine arrives. I think her arrival gave the writers, an ability to go back to certain things, that they wouldn’t have otherwise normally done, or wouldn’t have had an easier time of writing.
00:49:06:57 – 00:49:19:55
Agent Palmer
But I mean, her arc, maybe more, I mean, obviously more so than the doctor at becoming a real human or returning to being a human is.
00:49:19:55 – 00:49:20:37
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
00:49:20:42 – 00:49:28:17
Agent Palmer
I mean, that’s that like of all the things that Janeway does, like, that’s her. That’s her project. That’s what she does.
00:49:28:17 – 00:49:53:44
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Especially because Captain Picard was a Borg very briefly, whereas seven became a Borg when she was a child. Yeah. And grew up and went, yeah, yeah, yeah. And grew up in this trauma. And, and is able to get away from it. So that gives a whole different perspective and different sort of social weight, social sociological lane that you could go with the character.
00:49:53:49 – 00:50:25:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I, I think overall, like I said, I vault to number two for me right under the original series. And I, I gotta say, yeah, that means it puts it above all the other 90s Trek stuff. But it’s weird because I know not just from talking to you, but I know from, like, kind of reading other things that with one exception, I am now going backwards.
00:50:25:14 – 00:50:25:32
Agent Palmer
In.
00:50:25:32 – 00:50:33:39
Agent Palmer
Time. So now I’m next up is, enterprise.
00:50:33:44 – 00:50:36:11
Edward O’Hare
Where, can we just just.
00:50:36:15 – 00:50:40:00
Edward O’Hare
Briefly, I just want to quickly go over because you gave me a list of your favorite.
00:50:40:00 – 00:50:41:34
Agent Palmer
Episodes. Yes.
00:50:41:39 – 00:50:50:26
Edward O’Hare
And I can agree with most of these. You know, I think it’s a solid list year of especially, like, the two parter is, like, Year of Hell and Killing Game.
00:50:50:31 – 00:50:51:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:50:51:27 – 00:50:52:23
Edward O’Hare
I think you’re excellent.
00:50:52:25 – 00:51:07:15
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know if we said this, but it does have the best finale series wrap up of all the 90s tracks. Oh, yes. Like yes hands down, it’s just. And I think some of that is they had a lot of practice writing two parters. So they got really good.
00:51:07:21 – 00:51:11:54
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah, a lot of people kind of get hung up on.
00:51:11:59 – 00:51:13:08
Edward O’Hare
The,
00:51:13:13 – 00:51:20:38
Edward O’Hare
Moral quandaries, you know, on the ethics of Admiral Janeway. Deciding to go back.
00:51:22:16 – 00:51:26:54
Edward O’Hare
A lot of people think that that kind of taints the series a bit. But I, I disagree.
00:51:26:54 – 00:51:32:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I just I’m with you. All right, so what do you disagree with here? Well,
00:51:32:56 – 00:51:49:56
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Yeah. It. Yeah. Before. Yeah. Before before we get into the finale, I would say there’s there’s really one episode here that puts up a red flag for me that you can’t have included on your, starred episodes. Yep.
00:51:51:02 – 00:52:16:00
Edward O’Hare
Which is season two, episode 15, threshold. Because I will tell you this, along with, come along home from Deep Space nine, the Alan Marine episode, threshold is held up as one of the worst episodes, so,
00:52:16:05 – 00:52:26:19
Agent Palmer
I, I know why that is, because, well, spoiler alert. Janeway in Paris. Get it on.
00:52:26:24 – 00:52:31:56
Agent Palmer
But, well, kinda, but I tell you, you forget.
00:52:31:56 – 00:52:34:56
Edward O’Hare
You forget to to minifig devolve into slugs first.
00:52:34:58 – 00:53:01:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, but but I think I think for me, it was the idea of the, the breaking warp ten. It was truly like I, I enjoyed the science behind that. It will will ignore the, the mating ritual. The rest of that episode I really, really liked, I didn’t I didn’t take the end and go like, well, let’s throughout the whole rest of the episode, like, I thought the there were two parts to it, right?
00:53:01:22 – 00:53:24:14
Agent Palmer
Like, Paris wants to go faster than warp ten. He wants to break the barrier to get home faster. And at this point, Janeway is still like, well, there’s nothing against it in Starfleet to try. And I think at that point, you know, it was I don’t know, I, I liked it. I, you know, it was starred. It’s all in the moment.
00:53:24:14 – 00:53:34:33
Agent Palmer
Two when I start, I don’t go back and look at, I go back and see what I have starred is how it works. I don’t like just go like, all right. And how does that compare to everything else? Like it’s in the moment?
00:53:34:44 – 00:53:40:25
Agent Palmer
I liked it, I liked it, I liked it, it was bad, I liked.
00:53:40:25 – 00:53:43:10
Agent Palmer
It, it doesn’t matter. I liked it.
00:53:43:14 – 00:53:44:44
Edward O’Hare
Okay, okay.
00:53:44:51 – 00:53:50:39
Edward O’Hare
All right, all right, all right I won’t I won’t make that because think about it. But,
00:53:50:44 – 00:54:18:42
Agent Palmer
And yeah, I, I like the end. I don’t want to talk about the end too much because I know there are some people I and I know them that may be listening to this, that have only gotten most of the way through the series. But just know that it does end really well. And I think, let’s say you watched like the first four seasons or three seasons you don’t need I like there’s a lot of context you’ll lose, but you can just watch the you can skip to the end if you really want to know how it ends.
00:54:18:42 – 00:54:21:19
Agent Palmer
Like you can,
00:54:21:23 – 00:54:22:04
Edward O’Hare
I wouldn’t recommend.
00:54:22:04 – 00:54:45:09
Agent Palmer
That. I wouldn’t recommend it either. But I really liked it, and I’m I’m. But again, I’m it’s but but it sets the bar really high because I liked Deep Space nine and I liked Voyager. And so, and, and I, I will say, and you know this for talking to me and my journey. I liked those two shows.
00:54:45:09 – 00:54:49:27
Agent Palmer
Right. You know, from like the beginning.
00:54:51:00 – 00:54:55:48
Agent Palmer
But they were the beginning of seven seasons. I only have four seasons with enterprise.
00:54:55:50 – 00:55:08:25
Edward O’Hare
Well, yeah. Well to me, the, the finale of Voyager is, is a little bittersweet just because they, you show all that cool tech that’s going to happen.
00:55:08:30 – 00:55:09:09
Agent Palmer
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:55:09:12 – 00:55:11:22
Edward O’Hare
In, in. Yeah.
00:55:11:26 – 00:55:24:47
Edward O’Hare
In an ad in. Yeah. And Admiral Janeway timeline. And to me it was kind of like, oh, they’re showing us all this cool stuff that we’re not going to see end of any of in this next series.
00:55:24:52 – 00:55:28:30
Agent Palmer
There was space in between, though, like. Or did you know about enterprise?
00:55:28:39 – 00:55:44:28
Edward O’Hare
No, no, no, they they basically they they announced they, announced enterprise because it launched, you know, I mean, the finale was in May. Voyager was in May and, enterprise in year the following September.
00:55:44:28 – 00:55:50:38
Agent Palmer
So you knew something was coming, but you also knew, like, hey, you get all this cool tech, but you don’t get it this time we’re going backwards.
00:55:50:38 – 00:56:11:18
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is going to be a kind of a theme with me going forward on this, on on this project. It’s to meet the. What’s great about Star Trek is boldly going where no one has gone before. And from this point on, we pretty much boldly go to all the places we’ve already seen.
00:56:11:23 – 00:56:19:38
Agent Palmer
I’m going to guess that Picard, is is forward. Yes. Okay. But I, I have a lot between.
00:56:19:43 – 00:56:27:06
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, a new trek we’re not going to talk about just yet. That’ll be the end of our next of our next meeting. Okay.
00:56:27:10 – 00:56:28:03
Agent Palmer
All right.
00:56:28:08 – 00:56:38:14
Edward O’Hare
So. So enterprise, as it was originally titled in seasons one and two, and there was no start. There was no Star Trek at the front. So they put.
00:56:38:14 – 00:56:44:26
Agent Palmer
It at the front for season three and four because the ratings didn’t do well. Well, we needed the time.
00:56:44:37 – 00:56:45:31
Edward O’Hare
We needed we needed.
00:56:45:31 – 00:56:47:48
Agent Palmer
People to remember this was Star Trek. Is that.
00:56:47:53 – 00:56:55:45
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I’ll go on to that. On on the enterprise episode. All right. They did say it was a prequel.
00:56:55:50 – 00:56:56:23
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:56:56:27 – 00:57:05:56
Edward O’Hare
The captain was going to be played by Scott Bakula. Who, you know, as a as a Quantum Leap fan got me there. Got, you know, how.
00:57:05:56 – 00:57:13:30
Agent Palmer
Far removed from Quantum Leap is this? This is this is a bit. You know, this is some space, quantum leap.
00:57:13:30 – 00:57:30:08
Edward O’Hare
It’s probably, like 8 or 9 years. Okay. I feel like. Yeah, I feel like Quantum Leap went off the air in 92, and this was 2000, 2001. Okay. All right. Yeah, yeah. And it was, you know, and I.
00:57:30:08 – 00:57:34:05
Agent Palmer
Still I’m still in, one hour television territory.
00:57:34:09 – 00:57:39:07
Edward O’Hare
Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. This this aired on UPN in Voyager’s old time slot.
00:57:39:12 – 00:57:40:20
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:57:40:25 – 00:57:48:55
Agent Palmer
So UPN was really like. It was. It was UPN, the driving for this one. They were like, I we’re losing Voyager. Yeah. We need.
00:57:49:00 – 00:57:53:44
Edward O’Hare
Anyone. Yeah. We want. Yeah, we want another Star Trek show, you know, because, you know.
00:57:53:49 – 00:58:13:20
Agent Palmer
Now, I know we talked about it a little bit for Deep Space Nine, because I watched the documentary and there were supposed to be made for TV movies of Deep Space Nine. After the series ended, was there any talk or was Voyager like, we’re done, we’re done, we’re done. Like there was never, And I’m.
00:58:13:20 – 00:58:13:51
Edward O’Hare
Not.
00:58:13:56 – 00:58:22:34
Edward O’Hare
Not yeah. No, not really. I think mainly because, you know, it had been two years in one of those Deep Space Nine TV movies had materialized. Okay.
00:58:22:39 – 00:58:24:38
Agent Palmer
So. Yeah. Okay.
00:58:24:45 – 00:58:28:08
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah. So it was and, and also, you know, they got.
00:58:28:08 – 00:58:29:19
Edward O’Hare
Home.
00:58:29:24 – 00:58:39:09
Edward O’Hare
It was really there wasn’t that much, you know, nothing left to do, a story to tell. So, you know, unless you were going to do a spin off with individual characters or something.
00:58:39:13 – 00:58:42:21
Edward O’Hare
Okay. But.
00:58:42:26 – 00:58:54:30
Edward O’Hare
With enterprise, the thing I’m going to. Yes, it is only four seasons. You know, I’m warning the same thing I did about all the 90s shows is that the first two seasons, you’re going to be kind of rough.
00:58:54:30 – 00:58:56:11
Agent Palmer
That’s half the show.
00:58:56:11 – 00:59:02:36
Agent Palmer
And that’s that’s the show. It’s so that’s such a that’s such a bad.
00:59:02:36 – 00:59:03:45
Agent Palmer
Thing to say about a.
00:59:03:46 – 00:59:07:33
Edward O’Hare
Four and that, you know, that’s kind of the tragedy of it.
00:59:07:33 – 00:59:15:28
Agent Palmer
Okay. Was it supposed to I mean, I guess I don’t mind asking this question if, you know, the end. Was it supposed to be longer than four seasons?
00:59:15:33 – 00:59:18:06
Edward O’Hare
Oh, yeah. Yeah. This was, Yeah. I mean.
00:59:18:12 – 00:59:19:01
Agent Palmer
I’m assuming.
00:59:19:12 – 00:59:22:10
Edward O’Hare
It does. They they do have a proper ending.
00:59:22:19 – 00:59:32:11
Agent Palmer
Okay. But I’m assuming that they went into this going like we just came off of three seven season series. We’re expecting this will be another seven. Yeah okay.
00:59:32:11 – 00:59:38:37
Edward O’Hare
And that wasn’t necessarily the fault of the series. It was more that the entire network was collapsing. You know, I think.
00:59:38:39 – 01:00:03:34
Agent Palmer
TV has changed. I mean, that’s the other thing about this, which is from next gen with the overlaps of deep Space Nine and the overlaps of Deep Space Nine and Voyager, television has changed. Like the way they show it, the way they shoot it. Like I will say, this Voyager is so much easier of a watch than the next gen.
01:00:03:39 – 01:00:09:54
Agent Palmer
Like, I know Deep Space Nine happens on a space station and there is light galore.
01:00:09:58 – 01:00:10:33
Edward O’Hare
Yeah.
01:00:10:38 – 01:00:18:06
Agent Palmer
You can see what’s happening on Voyager for most of next gen. It’s so dark.
01:00:18:11 – 01:00:18:43
Edward O’Hare
Well, it’s.
01:00:18:52 – 01:00:27:02
Agent Palmer
Moody. We were saving energy ed on the enterprise. We needed to save energy. We didn’t have the energy.
01:00:27:07 – 01:00:33:23
Edward O’Hare
Well, I would say next gen was shot on film. And, a lot of the later episodes of Voyager were shot on video. Okay.
01:00:33:28 – 01:00:34:29
Agent Palmer
All right.
01:00:34:33 – 01:00:38:22
Agent Palmer
I’m just saying, it’s so much brighter in there.
01:00:38:27 – 01:00:42:48
Agent Palmer
I can see things.
01:00:42:53 – 01:00:45:00
Edward O’Hare
Also, I don’t I’m not sure if.
01:00:45:00 – 01:00:45:30
Edward O’Hare
You.
01:00:45:35 – 01:00:57:29
Edward O’Hare
Know, it’s it’s hard because, you know, for a while you didn’t have Deep Space Nine and Voyager weren’t. And they weren’t available in HD. Okay. You might be watching SD copies. On streaming.
01:00:57:34 – 01:00:59:42
Agent Palmer
All right. Still.
01:00:59:43 – 01:01:22:49
Edward O’Hare
But, the the one thing I will say, you know, kind of the reason the show didn’t last, it was not the sold of the series. It was the fourth. It the network was collapsing. I believe the following year, UPN dissolved and combined with WB to form the CW. Okay. And pretty much the only remnants of UPN that were on the CW were.
01:01:23:29 – 01:01:28:01
Edward O’Hare
America’s Next Top model and Everybody Hates Chris.
01:01:28:06 – 01:01:29:35
Edward O’Hare
So,
01:01:29:40 – 01:01:45:51
Edward O’Hare
You know, I mean, the show that was the top tier of UPN that was surviving. Okay. I think should be. Yeah, sort of, you know, give you a sense of of of, you know, how the enterprise didn’t really have, a shot, because there was nothing around it to, to bully it.
01:01:46:05 – 01:02:02:58
Agent Palmer
Well, all I’m saying is I know, I, I know I complained about some things, from one series to the next going on, but at this point, I’m just like, I feel bad for enterprise. Got a lot to live up to, a lot to live up to. Well, I will.
01:02:02:58 – 01:02:08:38
Edward O’Hare
Say, you know, the the idea is we wanted to make this a little more user friendly.
01:02:08:43 – 01:02:09:28
Agent Palmer
Okay.
01:02:09:33 – 01:02:28:28
Edward O’Hare
That’s why it’s going to be a prequel. We don’t want to get bogged down in all the canon continuity stuff. We want it to be a little sexier, you know, so you’re you’re you’re you’re going to see at least one more crew member in a catsuit, who’s played who’s played by a supermodel.
01:02:28:33 – 01:02:29:00
Agent Palmer
Sure.
01:02:29:00 – 01:02:49:54
Edward O’Hare
And, it’s a little bit, you know, it’s got a little bit more of a bro vibe, you know, because we’re, you know, we’re going out into the galaxy, you know, we’re going out to have fun. This is the first long term human voyage into outer space because the the this enterprise is the first warp five star ship.
01:02:49:59 – 01:02:50:46
Agent Palmer
Okay?
01:02:50:51 – 01:02:55:07
Edward O’Hare
It’s the beginning of the Starfleet. The Federation hasn’t even been founded yet.
01:02:55:12 – 01:03:00:07
Agent Palmer
Oh, so I’m really go. I mean, this is like, basically Star Trek pre-history kind of.
01:03:00:07 – 01:03:12:08
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah. This is set 100. And, you know, it’s meant to be 150 years from when it, when it took place. So it’s only about 100 years after Star Trek first contact.
01:03:12:13 – 01:03:13:26
Agent Palmer
Okay.
01:03:13:30 – 01:03:19:15
Agent Palmer
I, well, I’m I’m ready. I’m, I’m, I literally I’m watching my.
01:03:19:16 – 01:03:20:58
Edward O’Hare
I have a surprise for you.
01:03:21:08 – 01:03:21:49
Agent Palmer
Oh.
01:03:21:54 – 01:03:44:03
Edward O’Hare
That I, that I’ve been hinting at and I don’t know if you’ve really been picking up that, but I will say, when enterprise, was in its first run, I won’t get into why, I’ll talk about that on the episode, but I sort of didn’t keep up with it, and really didn’t get, the full experience of enterprise, especially in the, in the third and fourth season.
01:03:44:08 – 01:03:49:07
Edward O’Hare
I’ve subsequently went back and watch it and watch those episodes, but it’s been a long time.
01:03:49:07 – 01:03:51:36
Agent Palmer
Okay.
01:03:51:36 – 01:03:58:12
Edward O’Hare
It’s been a long road. Anyway, so I have decided in order to.
01:03:59:20 – 01:04:05:56
Edward O’Hare
Be a proper guest on the panel when you come to watch the show is that I will be watching along with you. Oh.
01:04:05:56 – 01:04:08:10
Agent Palmer
I’m excited. Oh, it’s going to be great.
01:04:08:10 – 01:04:12:31
Edward O’Hare
So. So we can compare notes, as we go along.
01:04:12:35 – 01:04:20:06
Agent Palmer
That’s that’s exciting. That’s. So, is this the only one you haven’t? Like, I know there.
01:04:20:06 – 01:04:21:55
Agent Palmer
Are.
01:04:21:59 – 01:04:26:42
Agent Palmer
Mod. We’ll talk about modern Trek later, but like, within the modern trek, have you.
01:04:26:56 – 01:04:28:26
Edward O’Hare
Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this.
01:04:28:26 – 01:04:32:26
Agent Palmer
Is. Yeah. Is this the only one that you kind of wear, like,
01:04:32:31 – 01:04:51:34
Edward O’Hare
I mean, I, I was, I was kind of too young to connect with Deep Space Nine in the first couple of seasons. I didn’t really jump into that full force until Worf showed up. Okay. But, you know, this was this was the only one that I kind of slacked off on and didn’t get back into before, you know, before the show ended.
01:04:51:34 – 01:04:53:39
Edward O’Hare
Because it was because it was cut short.
01:04:53:44 – 01:05:00:46
Agent Palmer
All right, well, I, I look I look forward to, to to watching it with you then over the next little bit.
01:05:00:57 – 01:05:01:58
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah.
01:05:01:58 – 01:05:10:01
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, yeah. We’ll have to figure out how we synchronize schedules. It’s such, you know, I would hope that one of us doesn’t get too far ahead of the other.
01:05:10:05 – 01:05:10:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I.
01:05:10:22 – 01:05:24:42
Agent Palmer
Feel like, if anything, I’m going to fall behind. You’ll be fine.
01:05:24:47 – 01:05:41:55
Agent Palmer
At this point, I’m caught up to where I would have been had I grown up a Star Trek fan. Given my age and the memory of the shows that friends I have made have of this era, I’m where most of them were. A lot of them skipped enterprise, but much of that had more to do with life and not having as much time for television.
01:05:41:55 – 01:06:03:16
Agent Palmer
Remember this was the pre on demand era, and thus far I’ve enjoyed the journey and I’m actually looking forward to modern Trek, which is just on the horizon. I know that I often get pigeonholed as a completionist. I read through Dayton’s catalog and Klosterman and Copeland’s. I’m working through Barkers and Brooks’s, and I’m sure that won’t be the end of it.
01:06:03:24 – 01:06:28:51
Agent Palmer
I’ve also done some completion ism with music for the last few years, listening to albums chronologically as well, but I think this goes to my curiosity. I enjoy their work as I enjoy Star Trek, and not only am I interested in the stories being told, but their evolution as well. That completionist nomenclature is something that isn’t for everyone, but in instances where I can accomplish it, it is for me.
01:06:29:00 – 01:06:49:05
Agent Palmer
And whether you think it’s too much or just odd, I think it’s part of my own ongoing education. There’s a reason that most artists get asked about their influences. It’s because they always have more than a couple. Always. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 168. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
01:06:49:09 – 01:07:17:25
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact Ed and myself in the show. Notes. The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Email and comments can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
01:07:21:52 – 01:07:51:46
Edward O’Hare
Space. The final frontier.
01:07:51:50 – 01:07:55:25
Agent Palmer
Ed, you got one final question ready?
01:07:55:30 – 01:07:56:45
Edward O’Hare
One final.
01:07:56:45 – 01:08:03:35
Edward O’Hare
Question. You know, I was struggling because, you know, I want this to be something completely off topic.
01:08:03:35 – 01:08:07:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And,
01:08:07:54 – 01:08:35:35
Edward O’Hare
We talked about sports a lot on these episodes. And what’s something completely out there that you might not have any context for? But I think you could still answer. And I was thinking very recently, a couple months ago from when we’re recording this, my grandfather, on my mother’s side, Kenneth, I would have celebrated, rest in peace.
01:08:35:39 – 01:08:38:37
Edward O’Hare
Would have celebrated his 103rd birthday.
01:08:38:46 – 01:08:40:28
Agent Palmer
Wow.
01:08:40:32 – 01:09:03:04
Edward O’Hare
And I was thinking back in his, in his young days, he served in the Coast Guard during World War two. Then he worked on the railroad and, spent a bulk of his working life as an engineer in the boiler room on the Staten Island Ferry. And I’m thinking, you know, use the Coast Guard, Staten Island Ferry, water transportation.
01:09:03:08 – 01:09:10:50
Edward O’Hare
So I’m going to ask you. Yeah. Agent Palmer, what is your favorite form of water transportation?
01:09:11:05 – 01:09:11:41
Agent Palmer
Okay.
01:09:11:41 – 01:09:40:42
Agent Palmer
So, if I’m going on things, I’ve actually been on, I don’t have a lot to choose from. I have been on a schooner. I think it was, I think I, I ironically, I was looking this up recently, so I’ve been on my, my parents and I went on a 57ft schooner, like four day, three night excursion off the coast of Maine, one year.
01:09:40:47 – 01:10:12:26
Agent Palmer
That was pretty cool. Other than that, we’re talking about, like two person sailing ships for scouts, canoes and kayaks. I mean, the schooner was pretty cool. I it of all of them. It’s definitely the most, upscale of them all. But I will say I, I true, I did enjoy the little, like, two person sailboat, for scouting.
01:10:12:26 – 01:10:33:26
Agent Palmer
That was that was nice. That was kind of fun. I don’t, I, I mean, I, I, I don’t know that I’d, necessarily do it again. I definitely have to practice. I don’t really want to get hit when the wind changes. Like, it probably, would have, and I’m sure you’ve.
01:10:33:26 – 01:10:34:41
Edward O’Hare
Been on a jet.
01:10:34:45 – 01:10:34:51
Edward O’Hare
I’ve.
01:10:34:54 – 01:10:36:12
Edward O’Hare
Never been on a jet ski.
01:10:36:12 – 01:10:37:00
Edward O’Hare
Or speedboat.
01:10:37:04 – 01:10:54:56
Agent Palmer
No, no, no, no, I, I, I think, because even, you know, obviously the schooner went fast. But other than that, I mean, I’m, I’m, I’m talking about leisure. Very leisure, things.
01:10:56:17 – 01:11:15:51
Agent Palmer
And so, you know, you know, you either the tiny sailboat or a canoe, probably. I think it’s got to be something simple. You know, where where even with my anxieties, I can still be in control. I can still be the driver, so to speak, and, okay.
01:11:16:03 – 01:11:19:05
Agent Palmer
And. Yeah. Yeah, that’s I think I.
01:11:19:05 – 01:11:22:29
Agent Palmer
Think that would be. I think that would be it. I don’t know.
01:11:22:34 – 01:11:26:16
Edward O’Hare
We get we got to get, you know, New York Harbor, put you on the beast.
01:11:26:21 – 01:11:34:52
Agent Palmer
You and all I keep thinking is like, okay, so I’m sure I’ve been on a, like a not like a speed boat, but like.
01:11:34:57 – 01:11:35:09
Agent Palmer
A.
01:11:35:09 – 01:11:41:36
Agent Palmer
Fishing boat that could move. I think I’ve been on, but I do not, not not that I remember much.
01:11:41:41 – 01:11:44:45
Edward O’Hare
Yeah, I’ve been to Six Flags. One on the log flume.
01:11:44:50 – 01:12:20:23
Agent Palmer
No, but ironically, the local, when I was little, because I was, you know, 5 or 6, the local amusement park here had boats that you could go on, and now they’re on a track in the water. But then they were just like, here you go, kid. Here’s your gasoline powered boat. Go have fun in the lake.
01:12:20:28 – 01:12:20:49
Agent Palmer
Right.
01:12:20:49 – 01:12:23:21
Agent Palmer
And it’s just like, no, it’s.
01:12:23:26 – 01:12:31:23
Agent Palmer
Not the biggest thing in the world, but, like, here you go. Have fun with that.
01:12:31:28 – 01:12:31:38
Agent Palmer
And.
01:12:31:38 – 01:12:32:20
Agent Palmer
I’m still.
01:12:32:20 – 01:12:36:29
Agent Palmer
Alive. That’s just.
01:12:36:33 – 01:12:45:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t spend a lot of time on the water. Near it. Sure. Not on it necessarily.
01:12:45:22 – 01:12:45:59
Edward O’Hare
Okay.
01:12:46:03 – 01:12:57:52
Agent Palmer
Okay, I did, I there was a time well before my anxieties when I, the idea of sailing was, a lot more prevalent in my brain than it is now.
01:12:57:57 – 01:12:58:44
Edward O’Hare
Interesting.
01:12:58:44 – 01:13:04:06
Agent Palmer
I’m not saying I couldn’t get back there, but I don’t I don’t I don’t know, I don’t well.
01:13:04:06 – 01:13:17:50
Edward O’Hare
I mean, I could tell you all through college and a lot of time, I, you know, I took the Staten Island Ferry back and forth, you know, that was that was a common mode of transportation for myself. Yeah. Have you ever taken a ferry to work,
01:13:17:55 – 01:13:20:10
Agent Palmer
For. No, no, no, no, no, I think.
01:13:20:10 – 01:13:50:10
Agent Palmer
I may have been on, that ferry at some point. I do remember at least one trip to the Statue of Liberty, although I don’t remember which direction we came from. But no, I, I, I, I’ve never, no, my, my commute always been, landlocked. For the most part. This is what happened to me, you know, technically, I mean, I, I think part of the Bay hits Philly.
01:13:50:15 – 01:13:54:43
Agent Palmer
But for the most part, Pennsylvania fairly landlocked, like, you know, I’m not going there.
01:13:54:52 – 01:14:02:13
Edward O’Hare
All right, well, I will say last minute plug. You know, I, I you’re you’re probably gonna hate this, but you’re going to keep it in.
01:14:02:16 – 01:14:04:17
Agent Palmer
Okay. Is,
01:14:04:22 – 01:14:19:56
Edward O’Hare
Is if you want to see the Staten Island ferry that my grandfather worked on, or one of them was the John F Kennedy, which is heavily featured in the film Scream Boat. Which is the best, Steamboat Willie parody?
01:14:21:14 – 01:14:22:31
Edward O’Hare
Killer Mickey Mouse.
01:14:22:35 – 01:14:27:49
Agent Palmer
Look, we’re about to enter, a weird time.
01:14:27:54 – 01:14:29:25
Edward O’Hare
We’re in the middle of it, my friend, I.
01:14:29:27 – 01:14:39:51
Agent Palmer
Oh, it’s so it’s already started. I mean, because I. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So as those IPS kind of become. Yeah. Available, I say okay.
01:14:39:54 – 01:14:54:35
Edward O’Hare
Yeah. So you know, so, you know, I, I, I will say I can’t give any details, but I can say my friend Steve, Steven Lamberti, who directed Scream Boat is very heavy in development on screen boat two.
01:14:54:39 – 01:14:56:46
Agent Palmer
Okay.
01:14:56:51 – 01:15:02:32
Edward O’Hare
So you can look out I believe you can view it on Peacock or, you know, rent it on demand at your leisure.
01:15:02:45 – 01:15:04:35
Agent Palmer
All right.
01:15:04:40 – 01:15:12:21
Edward O’Hare
So that’s enough for my plugs. Thank you. And, you know, I’ll have to contact Steve for the check.
01:15:15:54 – 01:15:22:00
Agent Palmer
Well, you know what? I mean, Voyager has the most horror, episodes, so it makes sense.
01:15:22:05 – 01:15:34:46
Edward O’Hare
Sure. There you go. There you go. And, I, you know, now I got to, you know, dig in and start, you know, run up the, the pilot for my enterprise and rewatch.
01:15:34:51 – 01:16:08:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I am excited for something different. I don’t know that I, I really want to, I didn’t like Next-Gen. That’s not a shock to anyone, but it it’s the foundation on which all the rest of the 90s tracks exist. And I got used to a very certain kind of trek, and I feel like I’m about to get shocked into something vastly different.
01:16:08:27 – 01:16:15:41
Edward O’Hare
Well, I will say, you know, it’s been a long road getting from there to here.
01:16:15:45 – 01:16:16:25
Edward O’Hare
I guess what?
01:16:16:25 – 01:16:18:28
Edward O’Hare
Your time is finally near.
01:16:18:33 – 01:16:19:44
Edward O’Hare
Okay. All right, I.
01:16:19:44 – 01:16:40:20
Agent Palmer
This is true. And and, I mean, this is my I don’t, you know, you’re not supposed to look past your, your current opponent for the next one. But I am four seasons away from modern Trek. So just four short seasons, right?
01:16:40:25 – 01:16:43:41
Edward O’Hare
One step at a time. Okay. All right. One step at a time.
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).