Episode 187 features my great friend and collaborator Chris Hughes who’s back to talk about how we collaborate despite some fabled differences.
Plus, how we motivate each other, how new things will be coming from at least one of us in the new year, and much much more.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Other Links
Six decades later, The Chosen still tackles the Judaism vs. Zionism eloquently
Ranking just who has knock, knock, knocked on Heaven’s door
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Show Transcription–
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:31:25
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer. Six decades later, The Chosen still tackles current discussions eloquently. Who’s been knock, knock, knocking on heaven’s door? And perhaps there’ll be another podcast coming from my wife and I. Or we’ll leave it to the professionals up in Canada. How was your week, honey? This is The Palmer Files, episode 187, featuring my great friend and collaborator Chris Hughes, who’s back to talk about how we collaborate despite some fabled differences, how we motivate each other, how new things will be coming from at least one of us in the new year, and much, much more.
00:00:31:32 – 00:00:36:01
Agent Palmer
Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:36:06 – 00:00:43:56
Christopher J. Hughes
Am I? This is number four for me on the palmer files? five, five. God damn.
00:00:44:00 – 00:00:56:31
Christopher J. Hughes
I’ve come to a realization, and I hope you appreciate it as much as I do. I’m the bad example in the Ace Ops Fables. And you are the good example.
00:00:56:36 – 00:01:06:52
Christopher J. Hughes
And what’s nice is it’s been a steady level of encouragement for get ready for this almost 24 years.
00:01:06:57 – 00:01:14:11
Christopher J. Hughes
Non competitively. I think we both want each other to do our best work.
00:01:14:15 – 00:01:35:45
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host Jason, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 187th episode is The Return of Christopher J. Hughes. He’s back because I wanted to have a conversation with him on the podcast about how we keep each other creatively going are unique, collaboration, dynamic, and how I still love that we are both trying new things.
00:01:35:48 – 00:02:01:41
Agent Palmer
Though his attempt to make a rug maybe more out there than any of the Palmer brand promotional templates we’re building from time to time, and like most things, that’s a good portion of the conversation, but it’s not everything. We also touch on failure as a learning tool, checking boxes to go further, not waiting for what’s next to come to us, being excited to make cool stuff, bringing value to others, not doing things halfway and well.
00:02:01:44 – 00:02:20:35
Agent Palmer
All that and much, much more is coming your way shortly. But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterward, you can find all related ways to contact Chris and myself in the show notes. For more information on what Chris is doing, you can visit triforce.com. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and ratings on Palmer.
00:02:20:40 – 00:02:32:06
Agent Palmer
And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files@gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:32:11 – 00:03:07:18
Agent Palmer
Chris. We keep each other going creatively in two ways. One, keeping the train rolling and keep just keeping it moving and moving and moving both for the Palmer stuff and for what you’re doing or what you we we keep track of that. You will hopefully one day get to. But the other thing is in the keeping going thing is we push so famously, as I’ve talked about on this blog and maybe even to you, one of the last times you were on is that the blog is now half book reviews because you were like, this is becoming too many book things.
00:03:07:18 – 00:03:54:23
Agent Palmer
So you pushed me beyond that. And now in the last maybe year, you and I have been collaborating on promotional stuff that we weren’t doing before. And, just just continuing to push beyond just, hey, is your thing good for Thursday? Just also like, hey, maybe you should stretch a little bit. And it occurs to me that, while it’s not a 50/50 proposition because your life, is much busier than mine, although there’s a separate conversation to be had for the fact that I may have had the most productive 12 months of my life as a stay at home dad, and I’m not sure how I did it.
00:03:54:25 – 00:03:56:35
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, that would be very interesting to analyze.
00:03:56:35 – 00:04:12:29
Agent Palmer
Because of how far ahead I am, with things. But the point is that we keep going. There is no like stopping point. Like it’s just like, oh, let’s let’s try the new thing, new to us or just try.
00:04:12:43 – 00:04:14:57
Christopher J. Hughes
New like new this time around. New year.
00:04:15:02 – 00:04:39:08
Agent Palmer
Yep. So it occurs to me that this is rare in that most of the time it’s one way I am pushing, you know, famously on the show, I push Bill to do his podcast again. He’s not pushing me. He doesn’t have to, by the way. Like, that’s not how it works. I’m not. But famously, it’s usually one way.
00:04:39:13 – 00:05:05:16
Agent Palmer
I’m encouraging as a part of to get moving on the second book. That’s also another one that’s happened on this show. Yeah. Neither of those guys, well, they while they are appreciative and they consume some of the stuff I do, they’re not pushing the way you and I are pushing each other. And it occurs to me that that is not necessarily just unique to us, most of my creative endeavors.
00:05:05:21 – 00:05:30:07
Agent Palmer
Support systems are one way. This may be the one, two way. One I have. I don’t know about you, but like, I, I mean, because I, I remember I still have notes from at least one novel you were going to write and. Oh, man. One and and and and at different I think it was going to be a graphic novel or something.
00:05:30:12 – 00:05:31:05
Agent Palmer
It was it was going to.
00:05:31:05 – 00:05:35:57
Christopher J. Hughes
Be a project that they it was going to be like a pixel art based graphic novel.
00:05:36:00 – 00:05:51:30
Agent Palmer
So but I’m just saying I kept these things and I brought them up and we were talking about when you were doing a lot of shirt designs, I still have a spreadsheet with like, yeah, and I’m sure that your spreadsheet and my spreadsheet are not equal, like, which means we should probably put them together and see what we have.
00:05:51:35 – 00:05:54:47
Christopher J. Hughes
It’s like it’s I can hate myself more for not doing them at all.
00:05:54:49 – 00:06:12:12
Agent Palmer
No, but I don’t let you forget them either. It’s not just that you have to get it done. I know time is finite, but I. I don’t let you off the hook as far as, like, that’s just. I will never let it go unless you’re like, I don’t want to ever do that again, right.
00:06:12:17 – 00:06:40:15
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. Like there I, I don’t think there’s, I’m so I was, I was thinking, well we’ll come back to, to our difference in our creative processes because I have a very interesting analogy that I think you will appreciate. But like, there’s very few things that I think I’ve, I’ve done. And then I hated that, like, I’ve, you’ve been part of like things where I’ve done things live on the internet and like I’ve put in a color scheme and I go, I hate this color scheme.
00:06:40:15 – 00:07:13:54
Christopher J. Hughes
It’s not that I hate this design, it’s this color scheme doesn’t work. So like, oh, you know, like and and watching somebody create something that they momentarily hate and then figure out a way to fix, I think that’s cathartic for a lot of people that don’t. You never see that. You don’t talk. You don’t hear people talk about hating the things that they do, but the like the one thing that comes to mind from recent attempts of new things is this the is this is the right, which was a catastrophic, mechanical and artistic failure.
00:07:13:56 – 00:07:14:23
Agent Palmer
Look, I.
00:07:14:23 – 00:07:15:35
Christopher J. Hughes
Just, I on the.
00:07:15:39 – 00:07:34:41
Agent Palmer
I just want to state that within my initial like notes for this episode, when talking about pushing each other, I was like, yeah, you pushed me pretty hard. But, like, never as hard as trying to make a rug from scratch on the internet like that is. Yeah, that might be the, the, the most out there of all the things.
00:07:34:45 – 00:07:36:40
Agent Palmer
And you did that on your own. You didn’t even get a.
00:07:36:40 – 00:08:07:22
Christopher J. Hughes
Point did. And so like and like so for context for anybody that’s not, that doesn’t know the other side of me and the stupid shit that I do. My wife and I love the clearance. I’ll at Michael’s. Long story, as short as possible. We found the materials, including a carpet tufted gun and the frame and the fabric to on clearance at our local Michael’s over a year ago, to the point where the box.
00:08:07:27 – 00:08:30:01
Christopher J. Hughes
The boxes had collected dust and I. I hate it, even though we everything we bought was more than half off the retail price. Like the carpet tufted gun was like $250. We got it for 100 because we were like, this will be fun. We’ll figure this out. And then it sat in a fucking box to the point where the box collected dust.
00:08:30:13 – 00:08:41:22
Christopher J. Hughes
And like I’ve been doing, I’ve been doing smaller stuff, I got heavy. I don’t think we’ve ever talked about this before because I. What is this? Am I is this number four for me? I’m the farmer.
00:08:41:22 – 00:08:42:05
Agent Palmer
Files five.
00:08:42:05 – 00:08:51:26
Christopher J. Hughes
Five, five. God damn. I just like the SNL five Timers club now. So,
00:08:51:31 – 00:08:58:14
Agent Palmer
Don’t worry. I know a designer who can make put it on your list, but on your list of stuff to do. Well.
00:08:58:19 – 00:09:23:20
Christopher J. Hughes
So, like I started, I started doing cross stitch, and that became kind of a joyful thing for me. And I’ve been selling little pieces, and I, I went, well, we’ve done this. We figured this out live on Twitch. Let’s try and do a carpet. And I will say this, I went into that experience with no, I did no research.
00:09:23:27 – 00:09:42:59
Christopher J. Hughes
I literally like you. I don’t know if the VOD is still up, but you can watch me go through the process of putting the frame together. Like fucking getting the fabric on it, figuring out how this carpet tufted gun even works. That was all with no rehearsal.
00:09:43:02 – 00:10:15:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I was supposed to be doing work that morning, and like you were early afternoon or whatever it was, and you were streaming. It was just like I couldn’t get any work done because most of my work is audio based. So it’s like, well, I can’t listen. I want to know what’s happening. Right? Yeah. Because you’re like, it’s it’s it is the part that, look, podcasting is probably like the worst of it because you get two podcasters together, they will talk about process like, it’s just it will happen.
00:10:15:12 – 00:10:39:22
Agent Palmer
And it doesn’t always happen. I, I edit that stuff or I talk about it like, beyond, but like, I’ve been on other shows where you just you either have to stay away from podcasting with other podcasters or that’s all you’re going to talk about, right? But the blogosphere doesn’t talk about that. Like, I don’t even even when I talk, when I’m somewhere as a blogger, I don’t talk about like, yeah, I had writer’s block or like, I didn’t know how to this, that.
00:10:39:22 – 00:10:47:03
Agent Palmer
And the other thing, like, I talk about that with you and like with friends, but like, that’s not a public facing thing. And you.
00:10:47:07 – 00:10:49:46
Christopher J. Hughes
Like failure. Like, like failure is not a public facing.
00:10:49:55 – 00:11:18:49
Agent Palmer
No, no, it’s not because I have to bring it up or have to talk about it. So like it’s a person, they’re all personal failures. Like, I couldn’t I didn’t write this or I, you know, it, it you know it, it’s gonna go on a shelf and collect dust like your purchase, right. Like, but when you’re doing that, live on the internet, like, that’s something that’s active and is one of the reasons that I kept watching was because not just because I’m your friend, but it was just like at a certain point, like, all right, well, he’s not.
00:11:18:54 – 00:11:36:29
Agent Palmer
Like he’s going to do it. Like what’s going to happen? Whereas like, what am I going to do? Like, I guess I could edit live on Twitch, which would be maybe interesting to people, but probably not. And I could write live on Twitch, but that would be very boring, right? Like so. And I don’t do anything in that.
00:11:36:29 – 00:11:52:32
Agent Palmer
And I know that you started by talking about like when you were doing pixel art stuff. And I remember specifically when you made your, stay tuned. Be right back screen. Oh yeah. Because that was a very big and it was a.
00:11:52:42 – 00:11:53:23
Christopher J. Hughes
Huge project.
00:11:53:32 – 00:11:57:42
Agent Palmer
It was a community thing because you were asking for like, what elements could I do?
00:11:57:42 – 00:12:00:10
Christopher J. Hughes
And then one on this wall and. Yeah.
00:12:00:13 – 00:12:08:46
Agent Palmer
So you were doing all that stuff. So this was the one where like, I don’t even know that I knew it was coming. Like, I don’t know how many people you told ahead of time.
00:12:08:48 – 00:12:27:40
Christopher J. Hughes
I think I didn’t know. So we had beaten like I had given myself a challenge to beat a video game without dying on the run. And so we had died six times. And then I finally beat the game. I’ve beaten the game before, but I’ve never beaten it without dying, like start to finish. Yeah. So then I said, well, I don’t know what the hell I’m going to do next.
00:12:27:40 – 00:12:42:56
Christopher J. Hughes
I put a we have a discord for my twitch and, it’s very casual. It’s not like this, like real pushy, like discord, like I’m sure some other streamers have. But I put up a poll and I was like, all right. Do you want do you want to watch me play this game? Do you want to watch me play this game?
00:12:42:56 – 00:13:18:20
Christopher J. Hughes
Or do you want to watch me try and make a carpet live on the internet? And everybody’s like, carpet? Because there’s it’s fascinating. Like, I, I like, okay, I have a different opinion of failure than most people do because I use failure as a learning opportunity. So like when I look at the carpet making experience, although I have nothing to show for it from my first experience because it all needed to go in the trash, I go, okay, the the frame that I used was bad because it did not hold the fabric tight enough in watching other people do this.
00:13:18:20 – 00:13:32:31
Christopher J. Hughes
Now I go, I’m like, okay, there’s other material on which I can make a carpet that might be better for me. I didn’t know what I was doing, to the point where I didn’t realize until after we were like, we were putting everything away live. Yeah, that there’s a fucking speed dial.
00:13:32:34 – 00:13:45:24
Agent Palmer
That was my favorite revelation of the whole thing. In fact, I think your laughter at wait, I could change the speed. Might be like the best thing. But.
00:13:45:38 – 00:14:18:07
Christopher J. Hughes
And then I went and wrote, remember the speed dial in Sharpie on the box so that the next time I didn’t, I. I wasn’t just like. Like, just like machine gunning my way through carpet tufted because I didn’t know what to do it. So like it’s silly now, but like, okay, over the last couple of weeks, I, I just, I had to buy some stuff at Home Depot, and I was like, oh, I’m going to grab carpet tack strips because everybody that I’ve seen who’s made a DIY frame, they’re doing it with two by four is they’re doing what braces and they’re doing it with corporate tax strips.
00:14:18:12 – 00:14:29:49
Christopher J. Hughes
So that’s the first step for me, those little purchases that go towards the bigger project, that’s the that’s me recommitting to the failure being a lesson.
00:14:29:52 – 00:14:51:17
Agent Palmer
But you went in so unknowing. Yeah. That you’ve you’ve done your homework after the fact. But I think you know more of what to look for because of how hard it was or what didn’t work for you or what didn’t feel right then if you had just watched those videos beforehand.
00:14:51:22 – 00:15:10:35
Christopher J. Hughes
Right. Oh, that’s. Yeah, that makes sense. Like, no. Now it makes way more sense that like, my fabric wasn’t tight enough on the on this frame to do it. I don’t know how I would have achieved it. It was a plastic frame with, like, rollers, like. Yeah. Pulling this, stretching this now over carpet tax strips makes way more sense.
00:15:10:44 – 00:15:29:05
Christopher J. Hughes
But I think it it goes. So it was I was thinking about this conversation today and I’ve come to a realization and I hope you appreciate it as much as I do. I’m the bad example in the Ace Ops Fables and you are the good example.
00:15:29:10 – 00:15:30:22
Agent Palmer
Am I, am I?
00:15:30:26 – 00:15:55:18
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, you are the ant. Like if the grasshopper and it works, it works on at least two of these. Okay, okay. The grasshopper and the and the grasshopper is like, I’m gonna go fucking jump. It’s summertime. I’m gonna go jump around. I’m gonna enjoy myself. The ants like, well, winter is coming. I need to make sure that I fill this tree with everything I need.
00:15:55:20 – 00:16:15:05
Christopher J. Hughes
Right. And it’s the tortoise and the hare. Because the hairs, like, I’m just gonna go do this thing, and you’re like, I’m gonna slow and steady this, and I’m gonna have six months worth of blog worth of blogs on the back queue waiting for you to edit for me. And so I am the bad character in a fables.
00:16:15:09 – 00:16:19:43
Christopher J. Hughes
I don’t think I’m the lion and you’re the mouse, but I am absolutely the grasshopper in the hair.
00:16:19:48 – 00:16:32:23
Agent Palmer
I, I it’s funny too, because in a in a different way. Yeah. We’re recording this in the middle of August. I don’t I don’t know when it’s gonna release.
00:16:32:23 – 00:16:36:08
Christopher J. Hughes
That might be the first time you’ve ever acknowledged the existence of time in a vacuum.
00:16:36:11 – 00:16:40:20
Agent Palmer
No, I have, I I’ve done it before, but with us, you know, so.
00:16:40:22 – 00:16:41:08
Christopher J. Hughes
I pick on you.
00:16:41:15 – 00:16:44:27
Agent Palmer
It’s very important that I say that, though, because right now.
00:16:44:32 – 00:16:45:03
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:16:45:10 – 00:16:46:17
Agent Palmer
As we record.
00:16:46:32 – 00:16:47:19
Christopher J. Hughes
00:16:47:24 – 00:16:55:55
Agent Palmer
I’m four episodes away from finishing Star Trek Enterprise and finishing that blog post will finish 2026.
00:16:56:00 – 00:16:57:09
Christopher J. Hughes
Okay.
00:16:57:14 – 00:17:06:57
Agent Palmer
And I am. And literally yesterday I scheduled the first three at three of the first four posts for January of 27.
00:17:06:59 – 00:17:07:49
Christopher J. Hughes
I’m sure you did.
00:17:07:52 – 00:17:13:01
Agent Palmer
And so by the time this comes out months from now.
00:17:13:06 – 00:17:13:42
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:17:13:47 – 00:17:23:05
Agent Palmer
I don’t know how far I like will I, I, I don’t think I’ll be a year ahead, but I think I will be further than six months like I for the than 4 or 5.
00:17:23:10 – 00:17:25:22
Christopher J. Hughes
If you were less than six months I’d be surprised.
00:17:25:27 – 00:17:39:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And some of it is it goes back to the book stuff like I, you know, filling in the gaps and stuff. And I’ve found so many posts that I didn’t know I didn’t write in the last year.
00:17:39:48 – 00:17:41:02
Christopher J. Hughes
That makes sense.
00:17:41:07 – 00:17:41:40
Agent Palmer
Because I do.
00:17:41:43 – 00:17:44:54
Christopher J. Hughes
Keep you’re you’re pretty diligent in your note taking.
00:17:44:57 – 00:18:04:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I and I’ve, I’ve, I’ve now almost consolidated it all into one place. I think one of the problems was like, oh, I want to fill in a, a non book post. And it’s like, where do I look. What do I like. That stuff’s there. I didn’t think I was this far ahead is where I was getting with this.
00:18:04:53 – 00:18:26:35
Agent Palmer
Like I sit down and I go, all right, what do I have? Where can I put it? And I just keep going and I just keep going. I and I’ve it’s only been because I know I’m so far ahead and I’m done with the year that I’ve started pulling you and some other friends about like. All right, what, what harder thing.
00:18:26:38 – 00:18:38:49
Agent Palmer
What what what’s something bigger that I can do that will really push me because I’ve done bigger posts. Yeah.
00:18:38:54 – 00:18:40:03
Christopher J. Hughes
Coffee history.
00:18:40:05 – 00:18:50:02
Agent Palmer
Coffee history. The book purge. Deke, those are the three bigger ones. And those all took months to do in terms of research.
00:18:50:02 – 00:18:53:33
Christopher J. Hughes
And we’re just writing, researching and making sure you had all your facts. Right.
00:18:53:36 – 00:19:13:08
Agent Palmer
And I met a point now where I can take that step, but I never feel like the book one always kept getting pushed because I still had to write what was for like three weeks from now. So that one took like the basically the entire like early part of the year to do because I kept kicking it for other things.
00:19:13:08 – 00:19:13:27
Agent Palmer
And now.
00:19:13:30 – 00:19:16:56
Christopher J. Hughes
It’s like when you were kicking it for my sake sucking edit the dang thing.
00:19:17:01 – 00:19:37:43
Agent Palmer
Well, that was a whole. Yeah. And so once I get done with it, I move it around based on your time. But like, it’s not dead to me, but it’s kind of dead to me. And I think that’s that this goes back to an episode, previous episode, and we don’t have to rehash it about like, not celebrating, right?
00:19:37:45 – 00:19:40:45
Agent Palmer
Because I’m just like, all right, that’s done.
00:19:40:50 – 00:19:47:16
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah. And it’s funny, I think I celebrate because I put myself in a position where I shouldn’t be able to finish a goddamn thing.
00:19:47:21 – 00:19:55:06
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s the other thing. I, I it being where I’m at right now as far as being so far ahead.
00:19:55:18 – 00:19:55:56
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:19:56:01 – 00:20:22:31
Agent Palmer
For both the podcast and the blog. And I look back and I go, but like, but I’m a stay at home dad like I don’t I, I look after a child most of the day, right. I’m not like, well. And I texted Kris Meyer because Kris Meyer used to give me a hard time when I had a full time job and then would come home in podcast and I’d be like, I like it feels like I’m busy.
00:20:22:31 – 00:20:39:22
Agent Palmer
And he’s like, you’re not busy. And then we had a kid and he’s like, welcome to busy. And I, I it’s only in the last little bit that I was like okay. Like I get it now. Like I, I, I truly get it. But at the same time I still don’t understand how I got what I got done.
00:20:39:27 – 00:20:55:26
Agent Palmer
Like, because there there’s no you, you’re, you’re there to help where we, we collaborate, we balance each stuff off each other. But you’re not a slave driver. You’re not like, is your next post ready? Like. And I’m not I’m not even like.
00:20:55:29 – 00:20:57:40
Christopher J. Hughes
I’m not even curious what you’re working on.
00:20:57:43 – 00:20:58:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but you’re not.
00:20:58:26 – 00:21:19:27
Christopher J. Hughes
But it also helps me prep because like like there’s times where, like, I have hands in it, you know, the your blog especially is a big part of it, like I am. We’ve talked about before. I’m basically the, the main editor of the Palmer Files or the of not the. But you edit the Palmer files. You do not want me at any of your podcast.
00:21:19:32 – 00:21:34:29
Christopher J. Hughes
But like it’s not it’s encouragement. And what’s nice is it’s been a steady level of encouragement for get ready for this almost 24 years.
00:21:34:33 – 00:21:38:28
Agent Palmer
Just for that. That’s the that’s the friendship, not the the the blog.
00:21:38:38 – 00:21:40:38
Christopher J. Hughes
No no no no. But I mean.
00:21:40:40 – 00:21:48:01
Agent Palmer
Although I’m trying to think did you did I ever run any of my stupid stuff that I wrote for the newspaper by you? I don’t.
00:21:48:04 – 00:21:49:16
Christopher J. Hughes
Know, I don’t, I don’t I don’t think I.
00:21:49:16 – 00:21:50:47
Christopher J. Hughes
Was editing you when you were writing for.
00:21:50:49 – 00:21:51:18
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:21:51:30 – 00:22:05:46
Christopher J. Hughes
For the college paper. Okay. But like it is, it is consistent because I, I also think non here’s the nice thing. Noncompetitive. I think we both want each other to do our best work.
00:22:05:53 – 00:22:11:58
Agent Palmer
Oh God like I. Okay. So another thing that’ll pull back the curtain on when we’re recording this.
00:22:12:02 – 00:22:12:26
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:22:12:31 – 00:22:37:13
Agent Palmer
Felicia day is doing a Kickstarter for the Guild, which is a web series. She didn’t. That started in 2007 on a very young YouTube platform. Okay. And I’m, I’m around those circles, but I never played World of Warcraft, which is what the Guild is based on. It’s based on the game. Right? And I never got into playing World of Warcraft, but I, I figured I was like, you know what?
00:22:37:13 – 00:22:54:50
Agent Palmer
I know enough about it to like like I’m going to go back. And I watched it. And she’s been running a marathon while she’s been raising money, and she’s probably going to I mean, I don’t know, but like, I’m pretty sure she’ll break the Veronica mars record for biggest indie Kickstarter for in film or whatever, but got it.
00:22:54:53 – 00:23:24:41
Agent Palmer
I bring it up because I have the same feelings watching Felicia and her crew that’s around her as I did when I first discovered loading ready Run and the crew around them going like, all right, but like, let’s be real. If I had gotten into more of a local theater kid situation, or if I even just knew more theater kids, I could be doing that, I probably would be begrudgingly on screen.
00:23:24:41 – 00:23:47:16
Agent Palmer
I would definitely be behind the camera or editing or something. But I always look at that and go like, all right, so I could easily be doing something visual. It just so happened that I started a blog by myself and found other people that were willing to help yourself and even like early on in the blog, I had a lot more guest people.
00:23:47:21 – 00:24:04:41
Agent Palmer
Writing with and for me. Yourself included? Yep. And then the podcast thing happened, and it’s like, I, I am three relatively local ish people away from having a YouTube platform. Like.
00:24:04:44 – 00:24:05:02
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:24:05:07 – 00:24:30:23
Agent Palmer
Because I just I see all of the circles that all the things these other people do and the reason my brain always goes there and why you and I are having this conversation right now is because I see those people. And yeah, the Guild and Felicia Day may be the big headliner, but like there are other channels attached that she’s rooting for is like, she’s not like, oh, I’m the best.
00:24:30:23 – 00:24:54:38
Agent Palmer
And the loading ready run crew, they all have individual streaming channels and they’re not competing against each other. They’re all trying. It’s a a, you know, a rising tide lifts all ships and I just go one not enough theater kids. So we didn’t do a, a a visual thing. And two, unlike those other two things I mentioned, we’re all spread around.
00:24:54:43 – 00:25:20:34
Agent Palmer
So there is no right. The collaboration is when we have a free night, when we can jump on Mike or even jump on the phone or whatever. Like it’s not just that readily accessible. I think the other thing is time. All of these things. Specifically loading ready, run in the guild start when these people are in their early 20s, late teens and early 20s.
00:25:20:37 – 00:25:29:53
Agent Palmer
They start when we would have had to start in college, basically. And yeah, we weren’t we weren’t thinking about that. I don’t know that we maybe somebody would.
00:25:29:55 – 00:25:59:56
Christopher J. Hughes
Know, but I don’t like when I when you talk about like that early YouTube like we were out of college when early YouTube I think became a thing. Like were we were we doing stupid things and, and recording, you know webcam poor the the poorest of quality webcam videos. Yeah. Like was one of my strengths in not like okay strength and weakness.
00:26:00:01 – 00:26:09:39
Christopher J. Hughes
My my ability to walk into a situation completely unprepared for it is due to probably 3 to 4 years of college improv.
00:26:09:43 – 00:26:18:43
Agent Palmer
And because I threw you well and because, you know, my senior project you basically produced come.
00:26:18:48 – 00:26:19:28
Christopher J. Hughes
Co.
00:26:19:33 – 00:26:25:18
Agent Palmer
I mean, it’s hard to say. Well, fine, but you were the on air producer because you were the recording producer.
00:26:25:26 – 00:26:29:13
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, yeah, because I was telling you how to read with a little more inflection.
00:26:29:16 – 00:26:33:01
Agent Palmer
It was making sure that I wasn’t just reading this in a vacuum by myself.
00:26:33:11 – 00:26:37:18
Christopher J. Hughes
The thing. And it was just going to be a radio thing that was flat. And. Yeah.
00:26:37:20 – 00:26:48:36
Agent Palmer
But you weren’t prepared. You just said yes, I don’t. How much experience did you have in radio and like, like performance. Sure. But that that’s.
00:26:48:48 – 00:27:18:06
Christopher J. Hughes
But I like it’s funny like the performance side of it, I don’t even think twice about like the performance side of it to me is having grown up watching cartoons. It’s crazy as that sounds like vocal inflection and like, like like just like trying to, you know, I think it was what entertained me as a kid that I understood and maybe without realizing I knew what I liked him, why I liked it, being able to to share that sort of like inflection and dialect and stuff like that with you.
00:27:18:06 – 00:27:42:21
Christopher J. Hughes
But like, I mean, I don’t want to get bummer. Well, I won’t get bummer yet, but like, I think about improv being a skill that allowed me to just adapt, right? A starter career out of college in news where, like, something could happen that day that was going to change my entire day and I had to adapt to it.
00:27:42:23 – 00:28:03:27
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, those two things, I think hardwired me in a in a way that’s different from a lot of people. A lot of people hate it when their day changes in the middle. And like I found myself recently in a work situation where I definitely have taken on more responsibility than I have in the last two and a half years.
00:28:03:36 – 00:28:30:37
Christopher J. Hughes
And I am busier, but I am happier and a lot of people would not feel that way. But I’m I’m finally tuned into a position where, like, I can I can impact how things get done and most importantly, when they get done, which means not only responding to my coworkers, but for the the type of business that I’m in, responding to the people that are relying on us.
00:28:30:42 – 00:28:50:50
Agent Palmer
Well, I also think that that’s a that’s a different like you and I are wired different like, well, well, well, we may be different in our approaches. Like we’re wired to get the thing done and I don’t I’m not saying that like, oh, we’re on this high horse. But a lot of people are not wired. They’re wired to do things right.
00:28:50:50 – 00:29:21:27
Christopher J. Hughes
But the the other side of it is I think a lot of people are wired to get things done so that they can earn the praise. I think more than more than any other, type of work environment I’ve been in. I’m surrounded by people who don’t understand the pride in the work, but the fact that simultaneously, I don’t have to be the the sole person.
00:29:21:27 – 00:29:35:24
Christopher J. Hughes
I don’t have to be the person receiving the credit. If the org receives the credit or the person or people at the top of the organization that I’m in right now receive the credit, I’m okay with that because it means we’ve all achieved the goal.
00:29:35:31 – 00:29:47:42
Agent Palmer
Well, I think it’s it’s the other part of why I’m so far ahead. And some of the stuff that you do, which is we get the thing done so we can move on to the next thing because.
00:29:47:45 – 00:29:49:52
Christopher J. Hughes
Dude, I love checking a box.
00:29:49:57 – 00:29:53:59
Agent Palmer
Like that. But and, but you’re not checking a rudimentary.
00:29:53:59 – 00:29:57:58
Christopher J. Hughes
But I love checking off a box and going what the what’s next?
00:29:58:01 – 00:30:22:16
Agent Palmer
But that’s the thing, right? There’s a lot of people that check the box off and wait for the next check empty box to appear. You and I seek it out like we are looking for. Like of all the things you do, you could pick up any number of video games. You chose to start trying to learn to make a rug, right?
00:30:22:16 – 00:30:27:28
Agent Palmer
Like, yeah, like there are any I am looking for. I could continue to just.
00:30:27:28 – 00:30:30:04
Christopher J. Hughes
Do where’s my challenge? Where’s my next challenge?
00:30:30:04 – 00:30:42:37
Agent Palmer
I could continue to just keep doing smaller posts and book reviews and just get to the next year or two I’m looking for what’s the next big post I have the time to sink my teeth into? Yeah, right.
00:30:42:39 – 00:30:44:22
Christopher J. Hughes
Like 100%. And like.
00:30:44:36 – 00:31:10:20
Agent Palmer
That’s what you and I have that I think because we’re together. You’re not going to tell me? No. You may tell me. Not now. And I may tell you not now. But we’re never we’re not knows for each other unless it’s something that’s absolutely, really bad. It’s not like you’ve never said no, but, like. Right. I’m just saying, when it comes to the general.
00:31:10:25 – 00:31:13:35
Agent Palmer
Yes. Try that. No, this isn’t working. It’s a whole different thing.
00:31:13:47 – 00:31:14:37
Christopher J. Hughes
Never satisfied.
00:31:14:39 – 00:31:24:24
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So, like, let’s just keep keep pushing I think to to where we started. I don’t have this with almost anyone else.
00:31:24:39 – 00:31:42:45
Christopher J. Hughes
Right. And I mean, and I think you and I talked about this certainly not on a pod, but like, I know I was in a position earlier this year where I was, I was kind of going through the motions. In at least in my 9 to 5, I was going through the motions. And, I found myself relying on old habits.
00:31:42:55 – 00:32:02:56
Christopher J. Hughes
Right. So at the core of what I do, I write press releases, I take photos, I failed. That’s that’s the majority of my 9 to 5. But I work in an organization that sometimes, like, isn’t ready to put stuff out. It’s not ready for prime time or I don’t know when it’s ready for prime time, because that’s a decisions being made way above me.
00:32:03:05 – 00:32:21:43
Christopher J. Hughes
And I fell on old habits. I fell back into my newspaper reporting habits and I said, okay, I’m not in control of how I’m getting my job done right now. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to treat this like a staff writer position, and I’m going to be hungry, and I’m going to find the stories as they exist.
00:32:21:55 – 00:32:44:15
Christopher J. Hughes
I’m going to check the classified ads every single day. I’m going to figure out when the organization I work for is putting a bit out for a major project, and I’m going to write it that morning. And like there’s instances where, like, I’ve written the press release without being asked for it and I’ve gotten back. Hey, I don’t think we’re going to push this one, okay.
00:32:44:17 – 00:33:03:02
Christopher J. Hughes
And it just it goes it stays in the file with an x x on the date. And there it lies because and it’s actually paid dividends later. Because when the next phase of the project is ready to start, I just go back and I steal all the language that I wrote that nobody read. Yeah. And I’m done that much faster.
00:33:03:02 – 00:33:33:43
Christopher J. Hughes
But like, I had to keep myself motivated in a way. I had to keep myself motivated to make it through the day and being hungry for the story, even if it wasn’t being fed to me by somebody who needed to tell me what to do, that was easy. I don’t think, personally, there’s a lot of people that can find that, you know, that that fire to do that.
00:33:33:48 – 00:33:53:13
Christopher J. Hughes
And I don’t think I have any other friends equally that are pushing me to go, okay, what’s what’s your next big that what’s the next thing that you’re working on? And I know, you know, we’ve done, we’ve done. We’re now on five. We’ve done final questions before. And like we’ve asked each other like, okay, what’s the big thing that you would want to make?
00:33:53:18 – 00:34:19:02
Christopher J. Hughes
And those are loaded questions. And they’re really hard questions for some people to like, dig into. But I think in terms of like just productivity and support and friendship, I don’t have another person that I’m checking in on what they’re doing. They’re checking in on what I’m doing. They’re going, hey, when can we like and we’ve talked about this in the last couple of weeks.
00:34:19:04 – 00:34:38:20
Christopher J. Hughes
Hey, when can we when can we jump on a call again and start making some more stuff for Palmer or for you or for whatever? You know, I got I got stuck in a I’m, you know, I have my normal have my 9 to 5, and then I have a couple contract gigs and I have one that was like, really just kind of languishing this summer and now, like, that’s wrapped up.
00:34:38:20 – 00:35:05:42
Christopher J. Hughes
So, like, once I get through like a, I do marketing for a gym that’s near me. And once I get through their fall membership push, like I can take a breath again. And so those you know and bless you for being like the understanding friend. If I’m underwater, I can tell you I’m underwater. And in the same respect, like if you need somebody to toss you a life reserve, you’re like, hey man, I need some help with this.
00:35:05:42 – 00:35:28:19
Christopher J. Hughes
Like but the fun thing is it’s like, again, it’s it’s always collaborative, never competitive. But like, if you and I jump on a discord call and we throw Photoshop up in the background, by the time and I was done, we’ve either got something for a podcast that you’re working on, the blog that you’re working on. It’s it’s motion graphics that neither of us have designed before.
00:35:28:24 – 00:35:37:48
Christopher J. Hughes
And like, we’re just I think we’re still it’s it’s crazy to be in our 40s and to still be excited to just try to make cool shit by ourselves.
00:35:37:57 – 00:35:59:54
Agent Palmer
Well, I it’s also, I don’t know that it would work any other way. Like if I was, we would have collapsed under our own weight if I was like, I know you’re busy, but like, let’s get this done this week. Like we would have collapsed under our own way. And look, I’m not saying that probably I’m not saying that because that’s not the way we do it.
00:36:00:01 – 00:36:22:35
Agent Palmer
Right. But I’m also saying that because, you know, maybe people need to know, like at the end of the day, we don’t agree all the time. Sometimes we argue, but we’re friends first, right? Like, yeah. Like we love collaborating with each other. I there’s nothing I love more than getting on a discord call with you and trying to figure something out.
00:36:22:38 – 00:36:23:43
Agent Palmer
Even if we don’t.
00:36:23:48 – 00:36:28:23
Christopher J. Hughes
Know, we’re going to come out with something at the end, even if it’s the first phase of a thing.
00:36:28:33 – 00:36:35:54
Agent Palmer
But that doesn’t work without all the other, like, underlying, stuff.
00:36:35:59 – 00:36:39:27
Christopher J. Hughes
In the in the graces. I think that we give each other.
00:36:39:32 – 00:36:44:39
Agent Palmer
Well, we’re different people too. Like, so that’s the other thing. We have different skill sets and we’re seeing things from we’re.
00:36:44:39 – 00:36:45:41
Christopher J. Hughes
Not we’re in the end.
00:36:45:44 – 00:36:48:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:36:48:17 – 00:36:51:05
Christopher J. Hughes
But like it’s like and this like.
00:36:51:07 – 00:37:19:44
Christopher J. Hughes
This is important, right. Like I, I think being, being in the work all the time is, is one thing. But like having the work define you is difficult. And like where I’m at right now, like as we record this, I am 11 weeks away from not being in control of whether or not I have a job next year.
00:37:19:49 – 00:37:20:44
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:37:20:49 – 00:37:47:35
Christopher J. Hughes
And that’s crazy. And I’ve had I’ve had stuff on the back of burners. I kid you not. For like 14 years I’ve, I’ve been I’ve been sitting on identities and properties and names and ideas for over a decade for if the bottom falls out of what I do professionally, I think this is finally what I got to do next.
00:37:47:35 – 00:38:04:22
Christopher J. Hughes
But I have to wait until somebody cuts a hole in the safety net as they take it away, so there’s no chance of anything catching me. Yeah. And I know, like, if I go and you’ve supported me in my path and you, you know, the project I’m talking about, and I’m going to get to deep like I.
00:38:04:22 – 00:38:17:24
Agent Palmer
Know, I know both of the projects that it could be because that’s true. I mean, that’s true. I, I don’t know if there’s a third one. You haven’t told me about it, but I know that there are there are two directions you could go. And I’m supportive of both actually.
00:38:17:24 – 00:38:23:04
Christopher J. Hughes
The third, it’d be Twitch. The third just be like full time content bullshit that that’s.
00:38:23:09 – 00:38:28:11
Agent Palmer
That that that would be the most fun of all three. The most. That would be the most fun.
00:38:28:16 – 00:38:52:50
Christopher J. Hughes
100%. But and like the other thing is, like, I, I think you and I asked this question a lot without asking it out loud, like, am I adding value to a community of people? Like, are the conversations you’re having on the Palmer Files valuable to to other people? And I think they are. Is your writing valuable? Yes.
00:38:52:55 – 00:39:16:46
Christopher J. Hughes
You know, for me, where I’m at right now is like, am I adding value to the the people that rely on the organization that I work for? I hope so, you know, I hope we’re at least demystifying what happens, you know, day to day. But I think trying to I think if if it’s a value proposition, the other two rise above twitch.
00:39:16:51 – 00:39:18:13
Christopher J. Hughes
But
00:39:18:18 – 00:39:30:22
Agent Palmer
But but here’s the thing. Right. And I can say this. We can use Twitch as the example because it’s the easiest one. Yeah. Your definition of success for Twitch would be paying the bills.
00:39:30:26 – 00:39:31:00
Christopher J. Hughes
Right.
00:39:31:05 – 00:39:40:28
Agent Palmer
But here’s the thing. It wouldn’t be buying a mansion in Malibu. It wouldn’t be a million followers. You know what I mean? Like I’m.
00:39:40:28 – 00:39:42:55
Christopher J. Hughes
Saying it would be, can I take care of myself and my.
00:39:42:55 – 00:40:08:41
Agent Palmer
Family that it and it is that and it is not because, you know, I still don’t know how I feel about Palmer being the job. If there was ever a way to make money with it. But I wouldn’t change anything. Like because I’m not trying to go like, all right. Yes. So now and this is maybe this is a thing of why we do what we do and we get along so well.
00:40:08:55 – 00:40:20:21
Agent Palmer
We’re not trying to be the best. We’re trying to be good at what we do. But I don’t want to I don’t want to come out here and be like, all right, I want to be the best podcaster in the history. No.
00:40:20:26 – 00:40:22:57
Christopher J. Hughes
No, that’s. And I also don’t want to be the most.
00:40:22:57 – 00:40:23:38
Christopher J. Hughes
Expensive.
00:40:23:42 – 00:40:42:49
Christopher J. Hughes
Like, I, I had a conversation last week. So the, the the the gym that I do marketing for, they have their third anniversary now I’ve been with them since before the start. Okay. And I couldn’t make it for the opening of their event because I have my 9 to 5 and they scheduled an event at a time where, like I was, I was a week off.
00:40:42:53 – 00:41:01:59
Christopher J. Hughes
I was a week removed from a family vacation. I did not have the luxury of added time to take, because we were cramming a bunch of events in at the end of last week, and I did not have additional time to take off to make it to this thing. And an hour and a half before I would have normally left work, right.
00:41:02:07 – 00:41:27:15
Christopher J. Hughes
So they hired a secondary photographer, which is fine. I’ve supported them in doing it, especially because schedules don’t line up. They emailed me the week before the owners emailed me and they’re like, can you just confirm that you’re going to be here at X time? Because we asked for a quote for a third hour from the photographer, and this is what it’s going to cost us.
00:41:27:15 – 00:41:36:45
Christopher J. Hughes
And I looked at the price and I was like, the cost of a photographer for three hours is more than I charge you for two full months of work.
00:41:36:52 – 00:41:37:24
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:41:37:31 – 00:41:41:28
Christopher J. Hughes
So one of us is wrong and I don’t know.
00:41:41:28 – 00:41:42:07
Christopher J. Hughes
Which way.
00:41:42:11 – 00:42:04:27
Christopher J. Hughes
I if this were my if if helping people by designing fliers and taking photos and making videos and writing press releases, if that was my full time job, I should be charging this this side more than I do now. I will say on the other contract that I was working on all summer, I was charging for my time.
00:42:04:29 – 00:42:13:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, let’s be let’s talk about it for a second. We don’t have to get into numbers and we don’t have to name names. But before the project, the summer project.
00:42:13:57 – 00:42:14:38
Christopher J. Hughes
00:42:14:43 – 00:42:22:28
Agent Palmer
I think you and I got to a point where you didn’t want to take my call. If we were going to talk about how much you were going to charge, because we talked about it.
00:42:22:38 – 00:42:31:32
Christopher J. Hughes
And that was last fall, that was, that was the first one for this. It was the same organization, interestingly enough. Okay. We we were because we were in a heavy debate.
00:42:31:47 – 00:42:44:15
Agent Palmer
And part of it, a lot of it stems from the fact that I still think neither of us, because I do contract work too. I don’t think either of us have charge, are fair weight. So to speak.
00:42:44:20 – 00:42:47:34
Christopher J. Hughes
So I, I think I’m way closer now.
00:42:47:39 – 00:43:07:11
Agent Palmer
I think you’re closer now. But I don’t know that I, I think I think that I we’re too nice. We like what we do. There are the, we like the people we’re working with there any number of reasons. But like, I think these are one offs like we need to I, I’ve always and this was part of the thing.
00:43:07:13 – 00:43:24:17
Agent Palmer
Like we need to charge more. We need to get more out of it. There’s a whole different discussion about like, all right, but like, how much value do you want to put on what we do for us? Because that’s a lot more fun, right? Like, and and anything, any contract, we.
00:43:24:17 – 00:43:27:58
Christopher J. Hughes
Get the least amount of money when I’m having fun for myself. Well, that’s.
00:43:28:07 – 00:43:37:04
Agent Palmer
Of course right. Like. Yeah. I mean, Palmer doesn’t make me anything. All it does is open. I mean, in theory, you could say it opens opportunities. I think it’s.
00:43:37:16 – 00:43:39:24
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, it kept the skills sharp, right?
00:43:39:28 – 00:43:55:08
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s the thing. That’s also why I think we keep challenging each other. Because we are. We’re not done learning. So, like the fact that you and I can come out and do a thing or try a thing. Hey, maybe this will work, maybe this won’t like. And I don’t want, I don’t want to.
00:43:55:13 – 00:43:56:23
Christopher J. Hughes
The failure is a lesson.
00:43:56:25 – 00:44:08:00
Agent Palmer
The failures, I look and I’m not going to dox any of the ideas that I’m really excited to jump on discord with you for. But I’m just saying, like, some of these are really, really fun and dumb, but like, we’re right, but.
00:44:08:15 – 00:44:12:31
Christopher J. Hughes
We’ve we’ve solved practical things and then we’ve applied those practical.
00:44:12:36 – 00:44:13:45
Agent Palmer
And practical things.
00:44:13:48 – 00:44:14:57
Christopher J. Hughes
To cool shit.
00:44:15:07 – 00:44:16:05
Agent Palmer
Yeah, right.
00:44:16:07 – 00:44:47:53
Christopher J. Hughes
Like and okay, so let’s peel the curtain a little, like you have a promo overlay for the Palmer files. Now that has the, the classified folder and it rotates and it dances because because God forbid anybody watched something sit still on a fucking phone nowadays. For three seconds. But we made this thing with the intent that it was going to serve a purpose for you, and it was also going to maintain people’s attention so that they were like, oh, what is this?
00:44:48:00 – 00:45:04:06
Christopher J. Hughes
What am I what am I watching right now? What is this promoting? What is all this? This is kind of interesting. This guy is talking about their writing process, or this artist is talking about how they how they hate, you know, Clay, I don’t know. I don’t think you’ve talked to a clay artist. I’m making shit up.
00:45:04:09 – 00:45:27:29
Christopher J. Hughes
But like the we were designing the thing to create to support the thing that we love. Yes. Right. And when I go deep on the stupid things I make for my twitch, I make no money. When I spend six hours on a two minute animation so that I can open Pokemon cards live on the internet to my own enjoyment and no one else’s.
00:45:27:34 – 00:45:38:16
Christopher J. Hughes
But like, that was fun. I’m sitting here, I’m being my own foley artist. I’m like, I’m oh, how do I how do I get a I can’t find a good pop sound. Hold on. Let me just. Okay. There it is.
00:45:38:24 – 00:45:49:27
Agent Palmer
Like but it’s also. But don’t forget like you treat that in my promo as I do, as professional as we would something somebody would pay us an extreme amount of money for. Because they’re.
00:45:49:36 – 00:45:50:52
Christopher J. Hughes
Because I’m ready.
00:45:50:56 – 00:46:11:17
Agent Palmer
Well, not only are you ready, you and I don’t. Look, I, I don’t do this very often, but, like. And I’m not the best person for, like, quotes and stuff, but I read one of Cal Ripken like mantras for when he was the Iron Man. And doing the streak was don’t do anything halfway. That’s how you get injured.
00:46:11:22 – 00:46:33:13
Agent Palmer
If you go 100% all the time, you’re less likely to get injured. You’re always on, you’re always whatever. And he’s got an example of like, he went he was playing basketball in the offseason and he was only half asking it basically. And he tweaked an ankle. And he’s like, well if I ever if I was going full bore it never happened that way.
00:46:33:18 – 00:46:36:03
Agent Palmer
And so he used that as the reason for like.
00:46:36:08 – 00:46:39:18
Christopher J. Hughes
He was acting gingerly and probably.
00:46:39:30 – 00:46:40:03
Agent Palmer
As opposed.
00:46:40:03 – 00:46:41:03
Christopher J. Hughes
To from the landing.
00:46:41:05 – 00:46:41:34
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:46:41:37 – 00:46:43:17
Christopher J. Hughes
So that’s a cool one, I.
00:46:43:22 – 00:47:21:10
Agent Palmer
Think, as that very specific example shows like you and I don’t do anything halfway. If we’re going to do it, it’s going to be like best we can do. And I think that because like to bring it all back, like we are both wired that way. Like, and we’re, we’re pushing. So it’s not like so, so as we’re talking when I’m pushing you for 100%, I know that in two, ten, 15 years from now, when I push you, it will be for more than this.
00:47:21:13 – 00:47:23:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but we will have grown together, right.
00:47:23:20 – 00:47:37:00
Christopher J. Hughes
And like, the crazy thing is, like, I am, my biggest competition is me. Oh, yeah. Like, I’m. I’m always worried about not satisfying myself at the end of a process. Right. Well.
00:47:37:00 – 00:47:37:19
Agent Palmer
You.
00:47:37:19 – 00:47:57:08
Christopher J. Hughes
I’ve also tried to take that grace. Like going back to the, the carpet thing. Right. Like absolute like technical artistic failure, but like, okay, what did I learn? Yeah. And how am I going to apply it to the next time so they don’t fail for me a second time. And then if what if carpet toughing becomes a fucking thing?
00:47:57:08 – 00:48:10:31
Christopher J. Hughes
What if there’s a fourth thing that’s carpet. Tough thing. J and and I need to be really good at it really fast. Like, I don’t know, that’s that’s theory because I’m not ready yet.
00:48:10:31 – 00:48:11:31
Agent Palmer
But but you’re willing.
00:48:11:31 – 00:48:22:09
Christopher J. Hughes
To be ready. I want and I want to be ready.
00:48:22:14 – 00:48:42:20
Agent Palmer
Change is coming. It is the one constant. And whether you can see it coming or just prepare for it in case it does makes no difference. Changes coming for you whether you are prepared for it or not. And often it’ll come when you least expect it, even if you are prepared for it. And here’s the most important thing about change it is neutral.
00:48:42:27 – 00:49:04:58
Agent Palmer
Change has no positive or negative connotations. It is our reaction and how we handle the change that makes it positive or negative. It is our outlook on the change that makes it one or the other. But by itself, change is neutral. Sometimes we can force change to happen by trying new things. Sometimes change happens to us and we have to decide how we react to it.
00:49:04:59 – 00:49:27:34
Agent Palmer
There are any number of infinite ways in which change happens, but it does. It just does. Is Chris more or less prepared for change? Am I? Are you? I think on a whole, Chris and I are ready for anything. And it’s not just because of our collaboration. It’s just how we’re wired. Things happen. Okay, let’s figure out what’s going on and then work towards whatever is next.
00:49:27:46 – 00:49:47:16
Agent Palmer
Chris and I have had a daily phone call for much of the last 20 years. At one time, it was during his formerly long commute to and from work. At another time, it was just whenever we could get through to each other, and now it’s a short call during his short commute to work. That’s adaptability. And by the way, perhaps I’ll ask him the next time he’s on the show.
00:49:47:23 – 00:50:09:05
Agent Palmer
I have no idea when or more specifically, why those calls started, but they are a part of our routines. Humans are inherently adaptable. It is the very reason why the constant barrage of change doesn’t blow us off course, never to return. We can handle it. I can handle it. You can handle it. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 187.
00:50:09:05 – 00:50:31:59
Agent Palmer
And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact Chris and myself in the show notes. For more information on what Chris is up to, whatever that may be. Visit triforce.com. The music for this episode was provided by email, and comments can be sent to this show at The Palmer files@gmail.com.
00:50:32:01 – 00:51:21:10
Agent Palmer
And remember your home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:51:21:15 – 00:51:23:29
Agent Palmer
All right, Chris, do you have one final question for me?
00:51:23:44 – 00:51:46:33
Christopher J. Hughes
I think I do. So I know I’ve asked you in the past like, what’s what’s the next project for us and things like that, but seeing how well this works. If you could guarantee any kind of semblance of seamlessness and encouragement. Who would be a dream collaborator for you?
00:51:46:38 – 00:51:47:11
Agent Palmer
00:51:47:16 – 00:51:51:42
Agent Palmer
You know, beyond you.
00:51:51:47 – 00:51:59:56
Agent Palmer
Because that’s the thing, right? Like. We like, I don’t know, like, I, I just imagine, like, you know.
00:52:00:03 – 00:52:00:27
Agent Palmer
The.
00:52:00:41 – 00:52:04:41
Agent Palmer
The podcast is the soloist thing I ever do.
00:52:04:46 – 00:52:05:29
Speaker 5
00:52:06:55 – 00:52:11:29
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know a lot of bloggers that have anyone.
00:52:11:29 – 00:52:12:17
Agent Palmer
To help them.
00:52:12:22 – 00:52:14:12
Agent Palmer
Much less an editor like yourself.
00:52:14:19 – 00:52:15:50
Christopher J. Hughes
Sure.
00:52:15:55 – 00:52:43:53
Agent Palmer
So the fact that you help me with promo at minimum for both for the brand is very helpful. But like when I go look at what else is out there, you know, he’s not on pod anymore, but Marin and Brendan MacDonald, what they had for the 816 year run, 17 year old and whatever it is that worked because after the first little bit, they found their rhythm and it worked through the end.
00:52:43:58 – 00:52:44:56
Christopher J. Hughes
00:52:45:00 – 00:53:01:14
Agent Palmer
I don’t think either of them come back. I don’t think either of them hang it out, hang it up without the other one being in agreement. And I don’t think they, I think honestly if they start something else they’ll probably work together again because it works. Like I like yeah.
00:53:01:14 – 00:53:04:40
Christopher J. Hughes
It’s like it’s like when Adam Sandler resembles a movie cast. You know.
00:53:04:42 – 00:53:07:33
Agent Palmer
You know, you know who’s going to be in that cast? Yeah.
00:53:07:35 – 00:53:12:42
Christopher J. Hughes
So even though some of them I don’t want to see anymore based on their newly discovered political views.
00:53:12:42 – 00:53:27:03
Agent Palmer
But I so outside of you, I don’t know, like, I could think of like, like those, like, pipe dream guests, but that’s a one off conversation. That’s not a ongoing collaboration.
00:53:27:07 – 00:53:27:48
Christopher J. Hughes
Interesting.
00:53:27:55 – 00:53:48:23
Agent Palmer
Because then everything I have is parasocial. I like this person’s work on the internet, and I think maybe it’ll work, but I don’t know them as a person, so I don’t know that it would work necessarily. Right? Like, like, what are the odds that if we were strangers and I watched your stream, I would go, that’s a guy who I think I could work with.
00:53:48:33 – 00:53:50:13
Agent Palmer
Like how? You know what I mean? Like, that’s.
00:53:50:16 – 00:53:59:51
Christopher J. Hughes
The first stranger and you came into my stream, you would go, keep that man away from my professional endeavors. That’s what you would say if you were.
00:53:59:58 – 00:54:18:43
Agent Palmer
But I think it’s. I think it’s that kind of a thing, right? Like where it’s like, I don’t know that I could pick anybody other than you. I mean, in this scenario, it would just be Chris, but he has more time, like. Like, you know what I mean? Like, just because.
00:54:18:48 – 00:54:20:09
Christopher J. Hughes
Careful what you wish for.
00:54:20:14 – 00:54:47:29
Agent Palmer
Because the thing. Well, but here’s the thing, right? Like, I, I know, I know where your fears come from because of, you know, money and benefits and the, the whole capitalism deal. Yeah. But beyond those worries, if you and I started the, any proper endeavor that we felt like we could try.
00:54:47:34 – 00:54:48:41
Christopher J. Hughes
00:54:48:46 – 00:54:51:22
Agent Palmer
I would not have any worries about it.
00:54:51:26 – 00:54:51:53
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
00:54:52:02 – 00:55:04:21
Agent Palmer
You know what I mean. Like I just, I, I, I don’t know, I don’t know how you feel about it. I mean obviously I’m coming from a place where like, you know, I’m a stay at home dad. Like my job is not going away anytime soon.
00:55:04:33 – 00:55:06:52
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah, well, job one is not going away. And.
00:55:06:57 – 00:55:17:39
Agent Palmer
You know, in the contract work, you know, I’ve had some moments where I thought, like, all right, maybe it’s gone. There’s been at least three times in the last five years where I’m like, all right. Is this it? Is this the last time?
00:55:17:42 – 00:55:20:15
Christopher J. Hughes
I think you had one this week?
00:55:20:20 – 00:55:45:47
Agent Palmer
So, like, I’m not I’m not that concerned, but those are all. I’m on my own kind of things. I think, like, if you and I were going to do a thing, And look, in full disclosure for everyone, like their a thing. There are parts of some of the ideas that you and I have talked about. Oh, yeah, that I have ideas beyond that we haven’t talked about yet.
00:55:45:52 – 00:55:46:21
Christopher J. Hughes
Okay.
00:55:46:23 – 00:56:04:20
Agent Palmer
And I know it’s a yet weapons. But like it is a thing where. And look, everybody needs to know IOI always think like if Hulk’s secret is he’s always angry.
00:56:04:24 – 00:56:06:58
Agent Palmer
Then mine is that I’m always thinking.
00:56:07:05 – 00:56:12:05
Christopher J. Hughes
And mine is that I’m never ready. But I will look like it.
00:56:12:10 – 00:56:16:02
Agent Palmer
Always thinking. Never ready.
00:56:16:07 – 00:56:20:11
Christopher J. Hughes
That’s going on the. It’s going on the family crest.
00:56:20:16 – 00:56:25:06
Agent Palmer
That’s our next logo.
00:56:25:11 – 00:56:46:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah I know. Look, I, I, I think if, if we, if you had asked anybody else you’d probably get a different answer. But like I have a knowledge base of as you said earlier, 24 years of collaboration with you I, I can’t imagine.
00:56:46:17 – 00:56:56:48
Agent Palmer
You know, maybe if somebody had a different skill set that didn’t overlap with anything you had. And that’s the project I wanted to work on then maybe. But like I also.
00:56:56:48 – 00:57:02:19
Christopher J. Hughes
Think also have other people in your circle that, like you’ve tried to you’ve tried to be the motivator.
00:57:02:23 – 00:57:23:15
Agent Palmer
Well, I am the motivator for other people. It just isn’t a full collaboration, right? Like that. And that’s that’s what when, when when you and I get together, even when it comes to, like, graphic stuff where you’re very much in charge, we’re both driving like you’re. Yeah. You know what I mean?
00:57:23:17 – 00:57:29:39
Christopher J. Hughes
Even in those moments where, like, hold on, I’m cooking. Like, let me let me get this first version out and then we’ll fix it.
00:57:29:41 – 00:57:54:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But like, it’s never just like, oh, that’s Chris’s thing. I gave him the seed and it grew because of him. Know like I’m I’m there along the way. Right. Like and I, I think that because of that like I, I can’t imagine picking anybody else you know, but I also go like, all right, well, I look I here’s the daydream.
00:57:54:08 – 00:58:12:41
Agent Palmer
Right. The daydream has always been what, what what if what if he wasn’t 90 minutes? What if he was only 15 minutes away and we could, like, actually get together, like, actually collaborate. And we haven’t collaborated on anything since we made a movie years ago.
00:58:12:46 – 00:58:13:26
Christopher J. Hughes
This is true.
00:58:13:29 – 00:58:17:00
Agent Palmer
In the same room as far as, like, collaborating on stuff.
00:58:17:04 – 00:58:26:04
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh, in the in the same room. Yeah. I mean like it it’s a constant back and forth with all the things that we’re working on. But like as far as like one big project. Yeah, the movie.
00:58:26:09 – 00:58:30:16
Agent Palmer
But it’s also the last one we were in the same room for, like discord is.
00:58:30:16 – 00:58:32:32
Christopher J. Hughes
The funny enough was Labor Day weekend. Yes.
00:58:32:37 – 00:58:44:29
Agent Palmer
But discord is like the best we can. We can, and it works for now. But it’s like, what could we possibly do in another scenario?
00:58:44:34 – 00:58:59:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Well, right. And like we’re neither of us are in a, a financial, a position of financial independence where we can get a warehouse and let like JJ run around the back room while we’re building like sets to shoot fictional things and.
00:58:59:50 – 00:59:12:47
Agent Palmer
Well, but that’s the thing, right? Like, I, I also don’t know, like, I know your abilities with film and I know that I can edit and I’m getting better at editing video. But I don’t know that I don’t.
00:59:12:47 – 00:59:14:03
Christopher J. Hughes
Know when the is good.
00:59:14:08 – 00:59:32:00
Agent Palmer
I don’t, I don’t know that we would do like I don’t know what we would do is the whole thing like given financial independence and, and you became my neighbor and we had the ability to build a studio. What would we do? I don’t know. Right. Like obviously I don’t think we you I don’t think you’d stop streaming.
00:59:32:05 – 00:59:41:07
Christopher J. Hughes
It’s like, what is the dog doing? It catches the car. He is. He hasn’t planned for this part yet. Like, yeah, I just wanted the car. I didn’t know what I was doing.
00:59:41:11 – 01:00:16:38
Agent Palmer
So I go, I just go like, all right, you know what? Yeah, it it it it would still be you. You can’t get rid of me that easily. And, you know, I, I, you know, I don’t know, you know, because I we’re coming. We’re we’re recording this less than 48 hours from a conversation I had with somebody about the potential of Palmer video, as far as you know.
01:00:16:43 – 01:00:36:44
Agent Palmer
And I’ve talked about it on the show, and I’ve talked about it with you and other people about, like, it would have to be something different. It wouldn’t just be the blog and video form or the podcast and video form. It’s got to be with video, but it’s like, you know, it. I was being pushed and I was like, it’s not a bad push.
01:00:36:49 – 01:01:03:59
Agent Palmer
I’m just not quite there yet. Yeah. But I’m also thinking like, so is would would that be next? I don’t know, like, I know I, I have ideas for the next podcast for depending on who’s involved and I have ideas for the next video depending on who’s involved. But I don’t know any of the, the stuff other than like I have the business plan, right.
01:01:04:04 – 01:01:23:34
Agent Palmer
And I, I, I don’t have it on purpose. I have it because I’ve been thinking about it for me and just in general. And I go, oh, that’s a good idea. Like but that’s not applicable for me right now. So yeah. So I’m just going to hold on to it again. I’m always thinking, so who knows. But yeah, I, I, I think it would still be you.
01:01:23:44 – 01:01:32:38
Agent Palmer
I guess in the fictional world, it’d just be you with more time. That’s probably the my final answer. Yeah.
01:01:32:43 – 01:01:38:40
Christopher J. Hughes
In 11 weeks. We’ll see what happens.
01:01:38:45 – 01:02:08:39
Agent Palmer
Hey, look, I, I know that, you know, no matter what, I’m undefeated with giving you advice, because I remember if we want to go back far enough. When you were just expecting that, I said, yeah, it’s fine. You’ll be a great dad. And I was right. Twice.
01:02:08:43 – 01:02:11:55
Christopher J. Hughes
Despite all the odds, I was.
01:02:12:00 – 01:02:21:38
Agent Palmer
I was so right. So I, I know that whatever it is and that one you did on your own this time, you know, we’ll be able to.
01:02:21:40 – 01:02:22:52
Christopher J. Hughes
Kind of I.
01:02:22:57 – 01:02:23:52
Agent Palmer
Well, not on your.
01:02:23:52 – 01:02:26:47
Christopher J. Hughes
Own, give you all the proper credit.
01:02:26:52 – 01:02:39:18
Agent Palmer
But this time around. You know, I’ll be able to help. So, like, let’s. Yeah, well, we will be fine. We will be able to. Whether it. I’m sure I’m.
01:02:39:25 – 01:02:42:15
Christopher J. Hughes
I’ve always been confident in that.
01:02:42:20 – 01:02:51:17
Agent Palmer
So. Yeah. Like, let’s, and then when you come back for the sixth time, we’ll be able to report how amazing everything’s going.
01:02:51:26 – 01:02:53:50
Christopher J. Hughes
Yeah.
01:02:53:55 – 01:02:57:40
Christopher J. Hughes
With whatever project X is or is not to be.
01:02:57:45 – 01:03:12:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Who knows? Yeah, I, I just know that we, For anybody listening who wants to be a smart ass, I don’t know that we have the bandwidth. Even if we were free of all restraints to attempt both.
01:03:12:16 – 01:03:18:15
Christopher J. Hughes
Both and be hard. Two would be hard. Like we’ve now put four on the table. Two would be hard.
01:03:18:18 – 01:03:29:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I just. Yeah. But, I can see I, I’m, I’ve, I’ve. Yeah. It it’s a, it’s an off pod conversation but I have ideas.
01:03:29:17 – 01:03:31:43
Christopher J. Hughes
Oh yeah. I’m sure you do. You always do.
01:03:31:48 – 01:03:34:00
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Well we’ll see what happens.
01:03:34:14 – 01:03:34:57
Christopher J. Hughes
All right.
–End Show Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).