You’ll hear us talk about why I invited him on the show, and just how much we have in common; baseball, music, and more. Plus you’ll hear us discuss mid-Atlantic sports towns, fulfillment, wonder, trading album recommendations and much much more…
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Keeping the Country Clean (S5E03) -The Good Government Show with guest Adam Ortiz
Other Links
It’s Easy to Like I Like Me Film and to Miss John Candy
An Austen Adaptation to Desire
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:03 – 00:00:20:38
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com. It’s easy to like I like me and Miss John Candy and Austin adaptation to desire a very special report from Mrs. Agent Palmer. And have you checked out Kelso’s newest published work yet? This is The Palmer Files episode 161 with Adam Ortiz. He’s deputy secretary for the Maryland Department of the environment, and we touch on public service.
00:00:20:38 – 00:00:59:30
Agent Palmer
But he’s here to discuss dreams and not giving up on them. Baseball, music, fulfillment, wonder and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:59:34 – 00:01:29:09
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 161st episode is Adam Ortiz. On this show, I posted friends, family, strangers I met on the internet and many times, especially when they are strangers. I know very little about them in this case, things were different. I quote met unquote Adam by editing an episode of The Good Government show he was guesting on titled Keeping Our Country Clean about his work at the EPA and in public service.
00:01:29:24 – 00:01:53:44
Agent Palmer
Adam is currently serving as Deputy Secretary of the Maryland Department of the environment. It was from that episode that I decided to reach out and invite him to come on this show, and he did. You’ll hear us talk about why I invited him on the show and just how much we have in common. Baseball, music, and more. Plus, you’ll hear us discuss Mid-Atlantic sports towns, public service, fulfillment, wonder, and you’ll even hear us trade album recommendations.
00:01:53:51 – 00:02:12:43
Agent Palmer
But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterward, you can find all related ways to contact myself in the show notes. I can pass along any messages to Adam you may have. Also in the show notes is a link to season five, episode three of The Good Government Show featuring Adam Ortiz, titled Keeping Our Country Clean.
00:02:12:47 – 00:02:27:04
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget you can see all of my ratings and ratings on Agent palmer.com, and of course, email can be sent to the Palmer bill gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s play ball.
00:02:27:09 – 00:02:48:17
Agent Palmer
Adam, I’m going to start with another podcast. You did that I edit called The Good Government Show, where I know you are currently in public service, but you had said that when you were growing up, you wanted to be either a baseball player or a rock star. And immediately I went, this guy speaking my language. Those were two things I wanted to be.
00:02:48:22 – 00:02:53:22
Agent Palmer
Are those are those still are. Do you still want to, you know, swing the bat and play the guitar.
00:02:53:35 – 00:03:20:32
Adam Ortiz
Of course I do, man. I have not given up on my dreams. Actually. Today is my 51st birthday. I’m out and everything and the listeners, but now I still like, you know, of course it’s ridiculous. Rock star is slightly less ridiculous than baseball player. But, but, you know, it’s, it’s funny you say that because, you know, after the, the winter, which felt like a very long winter, I was like, man, I gotta get in shape again.
00:03:20:37 – 00:03:38:59
Adam Ortiz
And, I did a trial at a gym, and I was like, you know, I hate gyms. They’re so boring. And the machines and, you know, yada yada. And then. And then I realized on my commute to and from, my new job in Baltimore, there’s, a bunch of batting cages right off the highway.
00:03:39:08 – 00:03:39:52
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:03:39:57 – 00:03:52:56
Adam Ortiz
So I got a membership to the batting cage, which is a way more fun way to exercise. And yeah, I’m now at the 75 mile an hour pitching machine, which I’m really proud of. You know, I,
00:03:53:01 – 00:03:57:13
Agent Palmer
When before this. When was the last time you swung a bat?
00:03:57:18 – 00:04:14:50
Adam Ortiz
Oh, man. There’s, like, pickup softball games here and there, but not really like, working at it. Working at it in air quotes. You know, people can see air quotes. Yeah, yeah, I guess, but, you know, air quotes, you know, probably 20 years, man. 25 years.
00:04:14:50 – 00:04:42:25
Agent Palmer
This is funny to me because I, for a little while and I still have the bat, but for a little while I was just swinging. I don’t have a batting cage is very low, but I was swinging a bat just for the heck of it. And for me, that’s a workout. And the reason I say that is because this was a bat that we found in my grandfather’s closet when we were cleaning out the house.
00:04:42:29 – 00:05:06:37
Agent Palmer
It was a give away at Memorial Stadium from Toyota for the Baltimore Orioles. But it was a full size bat, and it wasn’t just a full size bat. It’s a full size bat for like, I don’t know, Boog Powell. Like, this is not a bat that I should be, you know, like I’m I’m five, ten and a half if I’m, you know, maybe, you know, 511.
00:05:06:48 – 00:05:26:03
Agent Palmer
I’m, a buck 50. This is a bat that weighs as much as me, basically. So, like, just just standing in the backyard and swinging it for the heck of it was a workout. Like, it’s not. There’s no one. It like there’s no one in the world that’s like, that’s the bat you should be swinging.
00:05:26:08 – 00:05:27:46
Adam Ortiz
For you. Yeah. So for you.
00:05:27:46 – 00:05:46:42
Agent Palmer
I would, I would swing that. And I probably should get that out again because I, I do feel like I need to get back in shape in some way. And that was a fun way to do it, just to kind of engage my arms from a desk job guy that occasionally goes for a run and completely ignores every other muscle group that doesn’t use running.
00:05:46:46 – 00:06:02:08
Adam Ortiz
I know, preach, brother. Yeah, I’m exactly the same, but well, I’m happy to share my batting cage time with you any time you’re in the Baltimore area, man. And if, and say, you know, back at you, man. So have you given up on your rock star in baseball player dream.
00:06:02:13 – 00:06:25:12
Agent Palmer
The the baseball player stuff? A little bit, I think, I still have my glove. And I still think that, like, I think I know, like, I think I’m one of those, like, I could have been. I feel like I’m probably a, later career. Cal Ripken. Like, I know a lot, but I can’t quite do a lot.
00:06:25:19 – 00:06:29:12
Agent Palmer
So I have to let my knowledge make up for the difference in athletics.
00:06:29:13 – 00:06:32:31
Adam Ortiz
And for the younger players. Yeah.
00:06:32:36 – 00:07:02:02
Agent Palmer
The rock star thing. I still play, quite a bit, and I, I like to get into writing at some point. I don’t know that performing is ever a thing that I’ll get back into. That was, I think I did a long time ago. But yeah, baseball probably. I know if if my kid gets involved in it, I’ll probably coach, but I don’t see I say that and then I in the back of my head, I’m like, but as a fan, like, I’m a yeller.
00:07:02:07 – 00:07:23:54
Agent Palmer
So if I’m going to be a coach, I can’t, I can’t I, I, I would probably have to let my wife do the coaching and just be like, like whispered the knowledge to her because I don’t holding my tongue like I, Earl Weaver, was before my time. But I’ve been, I’ve, I’ve heard I’ve seen the clips. I know the legend.
00:07:23:54 – 00:07:30:11
Agent Palmer
And I feel like that’s I’ve that I would that’s who I would probably be if I was going to be a manager.
00:07:30:16 – 00:07:37:40
Adam Ortiz
So are you a a yeller with passion and love or a yeller with vitriol or a combination thereof?
00:07:37:42 – 00:08:06:16
Agent Palmer
It’s a combination that I’m trying to get better. Just because, like, it doesn’t matter the sport. Like I will exclaim in, horror or in glee regardless. I think that’s just kind of and I, I’ve, I, I think we talked about it at one point. And I think we glossed over it, so it could be a whole episode, but I turned my wife into a sports person.
00:08:06:21 – 00:08:34:54
Agent Palmer
She was not a sports person at all. And now she follows every pitch of the Orioles, and she’ll sit down and watch some college football and some pro football with me, and even pay attention to some of the racing I enjoy and march bad. And like I’ve, I’ve, I’ve kind of corrupted her the whole way. But now she it’s almost like what I expect if, if if interested, the kid will go through which is like you live and die with every pitch.
00:08:34:54 – 00:08:54:30
Agent Palmer
And I was like, honey, it’s April, don’t wear it like I know it. Yeah, it still stings, but it’s April. It may like it’s early. Not that big of a deal, but I still. Yeah, I’m, I just yeah like I it doesn’t matter in person on the TV I cannot I just yeah I just, I’m just yelling I’m just yelling.
00:08:54:30 – 00:08:55:34
Agent Palmer
Are you.
00:08:55:39 – 00:09:16:09
Adam Ortiz
I’m, I’m a medium yeller. Okay. Yeah. I’m I’m definitely passionate. I get too involved. So I’ve actually taken a break from sports because I’m like, oh my God, I’m having these this emotional turmoil over these. This group of guys don’t even live in but live in the city. You know, I’m like, why am I so attached to these, you know?
00:09:16:09 – 00:09:33:00
Adam Ortiz
And, so I took a little bit of a break, but I love I love sport, I love, you know, and in particular, I think baseball is a special kind of sport. And I’m glad that, you know, surviving. You know, when, in the 80s and 90s, there was, you know, questions about, you know, is basic Mark and survive with these gear faster sports.
00:09:33:05 – 00:09:51:09
Adam Ortiz
But I’m, I’m glad it’s doing well and sort of the pace of it, you know, with your, your advice to your wife that, hey, it’s just one game. There’s, you know, 161 more. You know, there’s there’s something kind of beautiful about that. It’s a long arc. You know, the teams have to perform well, it’s not like, oh, we got lucky three games in a row.
00:09:51:09 – 00:10:11:52
Adam Ortiz
So now we’re, you know, we made the playoffs like, it’s, you know, it’s it’s sort of a grind, you know, but there’s something really, really nice and sweet about that. So, so, yeah, I’m trying to, you know, as I said, I’ve entered, I guess my fifth, sixth, 50, 50 is the decade of the 50s.
00:10:11:52 – 00:10:34:33
Adam Ortiz
So, you know, being a little more active and a little more engaged is more of a priority, you know, can’t quite coast. You know, my suits are shrinking and, I don’t I’m committed to not getting new shoes. New clothes, you know. Okay. So, but it’s, you know, it’s a nice way to reengage. It’s a nice way to hang out with people, you know, especially if the stakes are low.
00:10:34:38 – 00:10:54:42
Adam Ortiz
Pick up games before a game. But it’s funny, going to the batting cage more. We have a little family reunion with my immediate family every year, and my brother has, you know, a small, you know, small city’s worth of children. And he’s teaching them all to play ball and they’re really into it. So we have these, you know, pretty intense wiffle ball games.
00:10:54:47 – 00:11:03:14
Adam Ortiz
And I have to say, like, I am performing well, okay. You know, the, you know, eight, nine and 12 year olds, and, you know, turning some heads.
00:11:03:19 – 00:11:04:12
Agent Palmer
That’s good.
00:11:04:17 – 00:11:06:24
Adam Ortiz
I mean, like, never been better, actually.
00:11:06:26 – 00:11:16:36
Agent Palmer
I mean, are you a five tool player? Are we talking three? Like, you can hit, you can field, you can pitch, but you’re not going to be, a phenom on the basepaths anytime soon.
00:11:16:41 – 00:11:41:35
Adam Ortiz
Well, wiffle ball thankfully is low barrier for all those categories. So, Yeah, but it’s, you know, it’s cool. I’ll tell you this, man, you know, let’s regroup in a few months, you know, and let’s, talk about whether we’re going to walk on to spring training, you know, 20, 26. Yeah. Okay. You know, you know, it’s, you know, it’s it’ll be a great story, if nothing else.
00:11:41:35 – 00:12:06:48
Agent Palmer
Of course. Yeah, I, I, I think it would be, one of those things where I do worry though. Right. So there’s something I learned in college as far as baseball or, I guess, just that kind of a sport, which is I was right handed growing up. And I learned to bat lefty. I learned to switch hit at some point.
00:12:06:53 – 00:12:31:11
Agent Palmer
But but I was a righty. So, like, even though I learned on my own time, no, no actual little League coach would ever put me in. And I’ve worn glasses since I was in the third grade. And there’s a part of me that in college, when we would play wiffle ball and I would bat from the left hand side, I used to hit better when I just imagine, like some what I.
00:12:31:11 – 00:12:49:09
Agent Palmer
It must be that my even though I’m right handed for everything like my my my right eye or left whatever eye is more important for batting, is just better if I’m if I’m up there as a lefty, because I, I was just like, yeah, like, why not? I know I can, I can kind of do it.
00:12:49:09 – 00:13:09:27
Agent Palmer
And then like, I just lit the college, you know, wiffle ball on fire by just switch hitting, like it was just kind of. So I don’t know, maybe. But, I mean, I follow the Orioles and Cedric Mullins went from being a switch hitter, which I thought was like the pinnacle of everything. And he’s like, well, I’m just going to be a lefty from here on out.
00:13:09:31 – 00:13:16:14
Agent Palmer
And that was okay. And I was like, I don’t understand. Don’t you, don’t you do you want to be a switch hitter?
00:13:16:16 – 00:13:36:02
Adam Ortiz
Like no switching thing? I never got my head around it and I’m not, but I’m a I’m left handed. I play sports right handed. I’m a left handed guitar player. Okay. But but there’s. So in baseball there’s all these switch. Okay, I get that, you know. Righty lefty did it. But nowhere else in life is like like, oh, today I’m going to write with my left hand.
00:13:36:06 – 00:13:56:52
Adam Ortiz
Tomorrow I’m going to write with my right. Yeah, yeah. Or like, nobody’s like, oh, well, that’s my left handed guitar, but I think I’m going to play my right hand like nobody does that. It’s only in baseball, which is kind of a weird and sort of, you know, it’s a little freakish. People who do it and do it well, but it’s, you know, fairly normalized, but it’s in more of their facet of our lives.
00:13:56:52 – 00:14:19:00
Agent Palmer
No. So you’re a left, left handed guitar player. So I have to ask, does that make it harder, or easier to, to learn to play because like, I guess when, like if, if, if we sat down together with some guitars, you could mirror me. I mean, although, I don’t know, like, is that easier when you’re watching people and trying to learn.
00:14:19:05 – 00:14:34:49
Adam Ortiz
Well, I’m so used to it now because it’s been like centuries that I’ve been playing guitar, so I’m used to it, but other people are or is used to it and they’re like, whoa, this is weird, man. It’s like, we’re in a mirror now. I’m like, yeah, but you’re playing a different chord than I am, so it’s not really a mirror.
00:14:34:56 – 00:14:48:56
Adam Ortiz
Yeah. But, but no, I’ve gotten very used to it, but yeah, it’s made other things harder, you know, like finding a guitar, like, oh, I really want a such and such. Like, I can’t just go to the store and get a such and such like you and hunt and hunt, which is kind of fun.
00:14:48:56 – 00:15:06:53
Agent Palmer
So do you have a collection? I mean, are you I mean, look, I feel like if I was a left handed guitar player, I would probably have more guitars. I, I have enough already, but, like, I feel like it would be like, yeah, but when am I going to see this again? But do you just do you just think like I’m this might not come along again?
00:15:06:53 – 00:15:08:12
Agent Palmer
I have to pick it up.
00:15:08:21 – 00:15:28:33
Adam Ortiz
That is exactly what happens. Okay. Exactly. And I’m glad you expressed that, because when I try to express it, you know, it seems very self-serving, like, no, no, there’s really a logical reason why I have 700 guitars in the basement, you know, but, but no, it it’s like, oh, well, I’ll probably never see this thing again if it’s like, you know, something kind of interesting or older.
00:15:28:48 – 00:15:34:26
Adam Ortiz
But yeah, it’s been, a lot easier finding lefthanded amplifiers, though. That’s true for them anywhere.
00:15:34:26 – 00:15:35:21
Agent Palmer
That’s true. Yeah.
00:15:35:23 – 00:15:36:49
Adam Ortiz
So it’s strange too, you know.
00:15:36:49 – 00:15:59:22
Agent Palmer
So what are you playing? Because I, I will admit, I grew up playing rock. And then I, I moved to bass for a long time. Still, I still more consider myself a bass player. And then I during the pandemic or. Right before the pandemic and then into the pandemic, I got really into acoustic and I learned a lot of folk.
00:15:59:27 – 00:16:23:03
Agent Palmer
And now I’m trying to get back into bass because, like, I spend it’s one of those I spent, like, so many years playing just bass and then occasionally picking up a guitar. And then I went like full on acoustic and didn’t touch anything other than my acoustic for like, whatever. And now I’m trying to become, I guess, what you would call more of a well-rounded player.
00:16:23:08 – 00:16:52:46
Adam Ortiz
Well, I probably like you and a lot of other folks in our in our age range. Yeah. Grew up on classic rock and records and, you know, I grew up in like the 80s and, grunge and so loud, crunchy stuff, you know, is, you know, sort of home base. But, I play a lot of acoustic, too, and I, I still gig pretty regularly, and it’s probably 5050, doing acoustic sets or doing electric with a band.
00:16:52:46 – 00:16:56:45
Adam Ortiz
But in I have an acoustic guitar in pretty much every room of this house.
00:16:56:58 – 00:17:08:52
Agent Palmer
I, you and I are the same there. I, I also have an acoustic in almost every room in the house. It’s important that you can pick it up whenever you feel like it. That keeps you in shape.
00:17:08:52 – 00:17:30:48
Adam Ortiz
Yeah. And it’s I also found it’s a wait a minute. I don’t know if you relate to this manage television guilt. So sitting on the couch and like, oh, I just let the seventh episode of some zombie show. But if I have a guitar in my hand and I’m playing along with a theme song or taking some practicing, then it’s more guilt free.
00:17:30:48 – 00:17:37:18
Adam Ortiz
I am actually practicing and rehearsing and improving my skills, not being a worthless couch potato.
00:17:37:18 – 00:18:03:00
Agent Palmer
No, I, I agree, that’s 100%. I mean, I don’t do it enough, but I definitely think that that’s definitely something that, you know, I’ve, I’ve, I guess been positive. I don’t think you can be guilty of like, yes, of course that’s something I do, picking it up and noodling around and, yeah, I mean, we have, as of recording, we have a three month old, and I’m trying to play around him.
00:18:03:05 – 00:18:19:18
Agent Palmer
So he’s used to the sound. The noise. I don’t want, a loud strum to scare him. Right. I just feel like. Good. Get used to a kid like dad likes music. That’s. That’s just the way it is.
00:18:19:23 – 00:18:23:36
Adam Ortiz
Yeah, and. And I didn’t say congratulations on your growing family. Yeah. It’s awesome.
00:18:23:42 – 00:18:44:39
Agent Palmer
It’s. It’s one of those things where. Because I have so many different things and we’ve only touched on two, right? Like we just had sports and music, like there is so many other things. I’m just like, you know what? You’re probably not safe. He’s he’s going to pick something. I don’t think there’s anything out there I don’t like.
00:18:44:44 – 00:19:07:43
Agent Palmer
I’m not, I don’t like, I don’t like Renaissance Man because I feel like, that’s just, like, I don’t know, too, too much, but, like, there are a lot of things I have a lot of. I have a lot of hats. And so, we’ll see how it goes. I obviously. Yeah, I want to teach the kid music in some capacity.
00:19:07:43 – 00:19:09:13
Agent Palmer
Right. Like that would be what?
00:19:09:13 – 00:19:28:32
Adam Ortiz
Just being exposed will be awesome for the kid that it’s. It’s an option. It’s something that’s accessible. You know, you know, whenever, you know, whenever it feels right. But, yeah, I have a lot of interest too. And I would say Renaissance man, except that implies that you’re really good at those things. Yeah, okay. I’m not that great.
00:19:28:37 – 00:19:30:39
Adam Ortiz
Okay. You know, there’s something.
00:19:30:39 – 00:19:56:35
Agent Palmer
Is there a mid-year renaissance man that we can sign up for and get jacket like that would be great. That that would be. That’d be wonderful. Yeah. No, I, I, I there was something about, just, I don’t know, music came hit me at the right time. Just kind of like the same time I, you know, actually, ironically, I stepped away from Little League at the same time.
00:19:56:35 – 00:20:08:52
Agent Palmer
I kind of picked up a guitar. So, like, I, there is a, like, a similarity there, but I also think that that was probably, that was probably the limit of my skills. It was time to move on to something new. Anyway.
00:20:08:57 – 00:20:12:11
Adam Ortiz
Yeah. Right. Right. Great point, great point.
00:20:12:22 – 00:20:33:26
Agent Palmer
And now I’m a writer of some kind. There’s a little bit an editor and like a creative type, but the sports thing never goes away. I feel like it’s in there. I, I, I can tell you I stepped away from baseball, which is always been my first love for about five years. Not on purpose, just kind of happened.
00:20:33:26 – 00:20:58:15
Agent Palmer
And then like at some point, I think junior, senior year in college, I started picking back up again. I, I bought the MLB TV subscription when it, was finally available in, in the early days of it. And so I watched a lot of Orioles games when I could, and I have, and since then I’ve had that subscription ever since.
00:20:58:15 – 00:21:13:11
Agent Palmer
Like, I’ve just stayed in touch. But it’s it’s one of those things that it, it was only five years that I was like, not in touch with it at all. And then you come back to it, you go, why did I ever let this go? Like, I still enjoy this.
00:21:13:16 – 00:21:35:05
Adam Ortiz
Yeah, but I don’t know if you relate to this, but my relationship to sports is certainly different now than when I was a kid. When you’re a kid, it’s like, this is our team where I’m growing up and these giants are, you know, heroes, you know, doing this incredible stuff. And, you know, being our age and I’m older than you, you see so many iterations of your team that barely resemble it.
00:21:35:05 – 00:21:53:31
Adam Ortiz
And it’s not like the 40s or 50s where all the Yankees lived in Brooklyn or something, or Bronx, you know, it was you know, it’s it’s everybody’s sort of imported and exported and there’s a lot less loyalty. And the money is so big. And, you know, there’s it takes I don’t want to be too harsh, but it takes a little bit.
00:21:53:44 – 00:21:55:24
Adam Ortiz
Of course, that childhood shine.
00:21:55:30 – 00:21:56:33
Agent Palmer
Oh, I fell.
00:21:56:41 – 00:21:57:03
Adam Ortiz
For it.
00:21:57:03 – 00:22:26:33
Agent Palmer
You know, 100%. There’s, I don’t know what it’s called, but there’s this weird little quiz thing, and I never signed up for it. But occasionally I’ll still play it, which is like, you know, there’s there’s a daily quiz about each team, and you have to put players in the right columns and stuff, and it it’s one of those to your point, I can still basically name most of the roster from like 88 through 94.
00:22:26:38 – 00:22:39:21
Agent Palmer
Right. And a part of that is because while the roster does change completely from 88 to 98, changes like 1 or 2 players a year, and the core is still basically there. And now.
00:22:39:26 – 00:22:39:42
Adam Ortiz
You know.
00:22:39:57 – 00:22:54:53
Agent Palmer
I go into every spring training and the joke in my family is that it’s basically the beginning of Major League The movie. Every time it’s like, who are these guys? Because you just know maybe there’s three left, whereas it used to be there’s only three new faces.
00:22:54:57 – 00:23:13:51
Adam Ortiz
Yeah, well, Jerry Seinfeld talked about this phenomenon decades ago. It’s like you’re just rooting for a jersey. Yeah, like the team is a concept, a sort of a mental fabrication, you know, in to, in a to a sense. I mean, some teams have a real sense of team, you know, you know that when you see it or feel it.
00:23:13:56 – 00:23:21:33
Adam Ortiz
But but often it’s just like, oh boy, I really like blue and orange. We call that the Mets. Yeah. You know that. Yeah.
00:23:21:38 – 00:23:47:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I, I, I got to tell you, there is, just something I don’t know if you found this, but in my professional life, sports was the great equalizer. I’m not the greatest schmoozer. I’m not. And I’m more of an introvert than an extrovert. But if I need to work a room, most of the time I can get by on my sports knowledge.
00:23:47:12 – 00:24:00:49
Agent Palmer
Like I’m a I’m a Baltimore Orioles fan and a Philadelphia New York Mets, New York Yankees, sometimes Pittsburgh area. Right. So like, as long as I pay attention to the league.
00:24:00:53 – 00:24:01:43
Adam Ortiz
Yes.
00:24:01:47 – 00:24:28:00
Agent Palmer
And I’m not I’m not a big NFL guy. But if I can pay attention to whatever’s happening with the, you know, Eagles and Giants, like, I can get by in a professional setting, just turning the conversation gently to sports. And then I, I, you know yeah I’m good to go. And I’ve found it to be, I don’t know it maybe an icebreaker like probably the ultimate icebreaker.
00:24:28:04 – 00:24:38:25
Agent Palmer
In a way that I don’t know that a lot of people utilize, because I didn’t see a lot of other people out there talking sports, but it’s like, everybody’s got something they like.
00:24:38:30 – 00:25:06:46
Adam Ortiz
Yeah. What kind of were you? And I, you know, I grew up in in New York, and I live in Maryland now. And, you know, you’re in Bethlehem and, you know, have strong connection. There’s like this, sort of Mid-Atlantic, you know, big old city sports franchises that are dominant. But if you go to Oklahoma or, you know, other parts of the country, they’re talking a whole nother language about, you know, college sports and high school teams and stuff like that.
00:25:06:46 – 00:25:42:24
Adam Ortiz
And I’m like, man, I can not even keep track of the half of the team that I’m following nowadays. You know, so it’s but yeah, there’s. Yeah, I think something sort of special about this part of the country in particular, just these old cities, these old, you know, working class, underdog cities, you know, you know, Baltimore or Brooklyn, you know, or Philly and Pittsburgh, you know, and you know, with these, you know, storied histories and these iconic players that I think is like a unique and special thing, you know, other sports and, you know, other cities and stuff have their own versions of that, I’m sure.
00:25:42:24 – 00:26:01:37
Adam Ortiz
But I think there’s, you know, something very storied about, you know, Earl Weaver and, Cal Ripken and Eddie Murray and Mickey Mantle and DiMaggio and Brooks, you know, just there’s like this, like, kind a cool, like, I don’t know, sort of permanence, like the the founding fathers of baseball.
00:26:01:46 – 00:26:19:58
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You kind of know of, like, I don’t know, you just learn about it as you grow up. Like, I know probably just as much Phillies, Yankees and met history as I do Orioles history. And I don’t follow them and yet. Right. I have that knowledge somehow. Yeah.
00:26:20:02 – 00:26:24:40
Adam Ortiz
Yeah. It’s like there’s like a cultural connection among them, I think. Yeah.
00:26:24:45 – 00:26:38:07
Agent Palmer
So, you you are in public service. What did you go to school for? If, you know, you wanted to be a baseball player and a rock star, what kind of took you off that track?
00:26:38:16 – 00:26:48:05
Adam Ortiz
Well, I, I went to a little school in Maryland called Goucher College. Great, great, great little school. And I went to as a music major. Okay.
00:26:48:11 – 00:26:52:50
Agent Palmer
So Rock star was still very much, the future hopefully.
00:26:53:04 – 00:27:16:25
Adam Ortiz
Yeah, there was something in there and, and it was, you know, college was cool because I was exposed to all this stuff. I wouldn’t know, but I was a pretty curious kid. But, but really listening and learning about other stuff. So I was like, oh, maybe I want to be a composer. Maybe I want to do something like some, some big iconic thing, you know, and then, so, you know, I do well in my music classes, not so much the other classes.
00:27:16:25 – 00:27:36:06
Adam Ortiz
And then, second semester, I meet with my advisor, and, you know, I still think about rock star. I’m still thinking about, like, the theme the Star Wars, you know, like, big thing or like, you know, you know, Beethoven’s ninth or, you know, big things. And then I’m like, yeah, well, I really love music and, you know, trying to think in my future.
00:27:36:06 – 00:28:07:52
Adam Ortiz
And you know, what kind of careers are available, you know? And he was like, well, commercial jingles, you know, you know, maybe even before a movie, you know, about popcorn or something. Yeah. And I don’t know if that was a message about my skill as a aspiring composer or something, but I was like, you know, I think I need a plan B, and I was very passionate about, human rights and social justice, and, I was a Boy Scout.
00:28:07:52 – 00:28:29:58
Adam Ortiz
So I have this sense of responsibility, you know, to leave things better than you found them. So was a big part of me, too. And I was like, oh, well, maybe, political science and government is a way to go. So that’s that’s what I pivoted to. And that’s what I studied, and I loved it. You know, I still consider myself a student of those disciplines as well as a practitioner in public service.
00:28:30:03 – 00:28:43:22
Adam Ortiz
But yeah, it was, it was it was a good mix of like, you know, college liberal arts stuff, but also with the application. But like the real world impacts. So that that was appealing to me.
00:28:43:27 – 00:29:13:17
Agent Palmer
That I’m, I’m still I’m still you you now go into the column of people. I’m jealous of because like I, I went to a liberal, a small liberal arts college. That was my junior year. My, my, my sophomore year, they announced they were going to go for years. So I went with a liberal arts AA, and then I would have I was in the second class of, baccalaureate, graduates.
00:29:13:21 – 00:29:38:00
Agent Palmer
And so I had to decide, like if I was going to leave or if I was going to stay. I decided to stay. And then I was like, well, what do you what are you going to get your degree in? I was like, I, communications that that sure that that’s that’s fine. Like you so. Right. From that point on, actually, I guess you can go before that Liberal arts into communications.
00:29:38:00 – 00:30:11:46
Agent Palmer
I’ve never understood what I wanted to do. I’ve never really put that together. And I, I ended up in the nonprofit sector. Helping people and helping organizations and that’s kind of been, I guess I don’t want to get to like, corporate right now, but like, it’s one of the things that makes me feel un hirable is like, I’ve been in jobs in corporate settings where they’re like, like, what are your skill set?
00:30:11:46 – 00:30:30:32
Agent Palmer
And I’m like, I’m really good with nothing. Because that’s kind of like the nonprofit mentality of like, here’s $10, go change the world. Like, okay, okay, let me see what I can do. And they’ve always been like, well, what would you do with a budget? And I was like, I have no idea. Like, I’m just going to be honest with you, I’ve never had enough money.
00:30:30:37 – 00:30:58:52
Agent Palmer
And when I tell you I’ve never had enough money, you’re thinking I’m doing it with nothing, right? Like you’re coming in and like, oh, here’s $10,000 for a project. I’m like, I’ve only ever had like, a thousand. Like, I don’t know what to do with that. And so, you know, I like honesty because I prefer it that way, but I just feel like there’s a part of me that now I’m like, I’ll just kind of try and stay behind the scenes and just help people.
00:30:58:57 – 00:31:28:01
Agent Palmer
There’s not a lot of money in it, but I get to do something that I like. And I, I get to keep my own sanity so that my friends who are in these corporate settings and need help, like, just personally like, hey, you know, maybe you’re maybe it’s too much like, chill out, relax. Like, come back to the come back, come back like you’re losing yourself.
00:31:28:06 – 00:31:49:57
Agent Palmer
So that’s my that’s my like secondary job, but it’s basically a full time job. I’ve got like six friends that I’m like, keeping tabs on, and just making sure, like, in, in the parlance of this episode, I’m making sure that they don’t lose the guitar, like, hey, man, have you picked up your guitar recently? Or hey, have you done any writing recently?
00:31:49:57 – 00:32:00:56
Agent Palmer
And so, I don’t know, like there’s no money in it, but it it’s definitely fulfilling to be like, oh, I got, I got one of my friends to actually do something for himself this amazing.
00:32:01:01 – 00:32:03:07
Adam Ortiz
That is amazing and well I think.
00:32:03:12 – 00:32:17:13
Agent Palmer
But but the jealousy comes in that you you made a decision and you it was a good enough decision that you stuck with it versus me. That was like, I’m just I’m just I’m just going to take the most broadest thing because I can’t make a decision.
00:32:17:18 – 00:32:36:30
Adam Ortiz
But well, man, we’re all we’re all doing the best we can and all figuring it out. And, you know, some days are better than others and some years are better than others. But you know, you you strike a theme that I think is an important one. And, you know, lately, you know, there’s a lot of talk about the Uber wealthy and the richest people.
00:32:36:30 – 00:33:00:12
Adam Ortiz
And there’s always been that as long as we’ve been alive. But I’m like, wow, the rich people are really rich. And people are really talking about the really rich a lot, but people don’t talk about the really fulfilled. Yeah. Who are the really fulfilled people, you know, who are the people that are doing things that have meaning, that matter, that have a ripple effect of, you know, value in people’s lives?
00:33:00:12 – 00:33:22:57
Adam Ortiz
And, you know, for me, what I realized is that I will never be a rich person. You know, at least I put the chances close to zero, you know? But I feel that I’ve been helping people, I’ve been helping things, and it hasn’t always been perfect. And, you know, but I feel at the end of the day, like, you know, I think, you know, like the Boy Scout, I let this place a little bit better than it was yesterday.
00:33:22:57 – 00:33:41:41
Adam Ortiz
And, you know, like you work with your friends, you know, that’s, you know, fulfilling. You’re being there for them and, you know, and what’s the good stuff in life, you know, is it another house or. Yeah. Or another car, you know, after a while, you know, it’s like, hey, did I enjoy my day? Am I happy? Am I feeling connected?
00:33:41:46 – 00:33:51:41
Adam Ortiz
Yeah. You know, did I make the world a little kinder or a little more loving, a little more beautiful, a little happier? Like, that’s the real stuff, man. I really believe that.
00:33:51:41 – 00:34:14:28
Agent Palmer
Well, it it’s funny because you talk about the fact that people talk about the Uber wealthy and they do, and they and they almost never talk about the fulfilled, but we never talk about if the Uber wealthy are happy, like, you know, which is a whole I feel like that’s a discussion for I mean, it’s probably not a discussion.
00:34:14:28 – 00:34:46:56
Agent Palmer
It’s an open and shut case on a whole. And I don’t mind making this generalization wealthy people in Uber wealthy people are not happy because for some reason, we’re we’re okay with AA and the concept of addiction for drugs and for alcohol and for gambling. But the Uber wealthy have an addiction to more stuff, and money may not take up as much space as like say, oh, I collect every magazine ever.
00:34:47:01 – 00:35:10:33
Agent Palmer
It is still an unhealthy like drive for more and more, more, more, more. And so I know, because I’ve had this conversation with friends that are like, well, aren’t you worried about like, you know, money or I’m like, I can pay my bills. Like, I don’t, I don’t know what more there is that I’m supposed to worry about.
00:35:10:38 – 00:35:31:46
Agent Palmer
Am I in the same line of, like, leaving? Like what you’re talking about leaving it better? I just want to improve myself in some way, or improve the lives of the people around me. Right. And that most of the time that’s not going to come with a monetary value. It’s going to come with time. It’s going to come with, attention.
00:35:31:51 – 00:35:56:33
Agent Palmer
And I can I can honestly say that was the way I felt before I became a father. Like I was trying to be there for my friends. In a way that they weren’t going to be for themselves. And holy moly. Like, it does still feel like that perspective is just like any other social media perspective.
00:35:56:33 – 00:36:23:15
Agent Palmer
It feels like shouting into the void, because I’m helping a handful of people who are all cheating on me. You know, they’re all like, well, I worked a little bit on Saturday. I was like, what Saturdays do you yours? That’s not company time, you know, like, so I’m just trying to help out as much as possible and and we’ll see where that leads.
00:36:23:15 – 00:36:48:25
Agent Palmer
Right. Maybe, you know, these six people are happier and that’s better for everyone. I don’t know, it’s a weird it’s a really weird thing. I feel like though on a whole, you and I having those many hats, we don’t have to be good at all the things, but having the many hats maybe helps us, right? Like, because we can walk around the house and go like there’s a baseball jersey.
00:36:48:25 – 00:37:02:06
Agent Palmer
I haven’t watched a game in a while or there’s a guitar. I haven’t picked it up in a while. And it it can be. I haven’t done it this week. And for us that’s enough, because there’s triggers all over to remind us of. Like what? What else there could be.
00:37:02:11 – 00:37:29:45
Adam Ortiz
Right. Well, I, you know, I tend to see see all of us, you know, we’re all mixed and have these connections, you know, maybe, you know, a million people, maybe, you know, 30 people, but, you know, are you contributing positive inputs into the system, into the human system, you know, and you never know where that leads. Like, you inspire some of you to have a better day, to feel good about something, to try something you didn’t before that could be life changing.
00:37:29:45 – 00:37:57:18
Adam Ortiz
You know, in one way or another. You know, the time that you take to talk about thoughtful, real things with people in an authentic way, in a podcast is an incredible act of generosity like you are sharing. And, you know, right now, our conversation hopefully, is, you know, making people think about stuff, whether they agree or disagree, but maybe there’s a nugget or something that they take from it that, you know, makes them a better parent or a better employee or makes them take a chance on something, you know?
00:37:57:18 – 00:38:18:03
Adam Ortiz
And I do think that that stuff matters. You know, in all of our lives, you know, we can think about inflection moments from a teacher or a relative or a coach or, you know, even just, you know, a documentary and like, like, wow, I’m really inspired by. But somebody took the time to tell the story about that person in that documentary or that event.
00:38:18:07 – 00:38:39:28
Adam Ortiz
Yeah. You know, and that is, you know, that’s a positive input into our human system. So I think, you know, it’s scale is, you know, less important than the balance of it is is it a positive? Because, you know, I’m not going to trash the Uber rich necessarily. Maybe some of them are that maybe all of them are happy.
00:38:39:28 – 00:39:00:03
Adam Ortiz
I tend to think that, you know, that is probably not the case. You know, by and large. But know the measure, you know, and it’s easy to be jealous of people with things or comfort that you have. But, you know, is isn’t the real value, you know, did they uplift, you know, people in some way in their network, in whatever way?
00:39:00:03 – 00:39:19:41
Adam Ortiz
That is what they did with a positive inputs into our human system? Or did they make things harder for people? You know, or, you know, indifferent and detached? Yeah, I don’t know. But, you know, I’d rather somebody is going to be like, you know, Jason, that agent plumber guy, you know, he made me laugh today. That’s cool. You should check that out.
00:39:19:41 – 00:39:21:23
Adam Ortiz
Like, that’s a huge win, man.
00:39:21:34 – 00:39:51:13
Agent Palmer
And I think I think the other thing is and this is I’ve gotten, by there’s a lot of armchair xyzzy. It doesn’t matter what it is. There’s always people that will tell you, change things, do things differently. This show was always intended to be long form conversation because I don’t I mean, I don’t know you and you don’t know me, but we can have a connection.
00:39:51:13 – 00:40:11:50
Agent Palmer
We can tell stories. We can share stories and in this moment, even if it’s just you and me having an impact on each other, that’s enough. And then we’re both obviously, because you’re here, willing to share that with other people, and hopefully that goes somewhere. But you don’t know what the nuggets going to be. I don’t want it to be an interview.
00:40:11:50 – 00:40:22:18
Agent Palmer
I don’t want it to be. Here’s ten questions. Let’s go. Let’s find out. Like there there’s something that I mean, I’ve always been a talker and I guess.
00:40:22:23 – 00:40:23:26
Adam Ortiz
I’m shocked to hear that.
00:40:23:26 – 00:40:52:36
Agent Palmer
Right. So but I also enjoy listening. And I think that there’s, there’s you have to put yourself out there first. I have to tell you a story. Like one of the one of the like. It’s not a secret, but like, one of the things that makes this show work is that if I get a short answer from whatever my first question happens to be, usually I end up telling a story, and most of the time that’s enough to open up the guest.
00:40:52:41 – 00:41:16:52
Agent Palmer
Most of the time they go. He shared a story. I can share a story even if that’s not what their expectation was going in. If I didn’t set it properly, whatever. And I like that because I. I don’t know what’s going to happen. I don’t need to know the end. It’s not, it’s not important. It’s just and I don’t need also I don’t need there to be an end.
00:41:16:57 – 00:41:34:32
Agent Palmer
This could be open ended. We could, we could, we can end on a question I don’t know but that’s fine. The world is not open and shut and I, I feel like that’s one of the reasons that I like, spend more and more time away from my phone and the internet at large is because, like, I don’t I to get everything clean.
00:41:34:36 – 00:41:44:07
Agent Palmer
I don’t need everything wrapped up in 22.5 minutes. That’s that’s not life. And I just we’ll see what happens.
00:41:44:12 – 00:41:50:10
Adam Ortiz
I know remember when we used to wonder things like, oh, I wonder.
00:41:50:15 – 00:41:55:48
Adam Ortiz
Whatever. Like the one about things my team are like, what is that? Okay, John Lennon was born and blah blah blah, blah, blah.
00:41:55:48 – 00:42:23:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah. You’ll look it up. Yeah, I’ve, I it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a constant source of anguish for one of my friends comes over quite a bit because I’m trying to make a house rule. No phones. Because he will look stuff up, like, immediately. And it’s like, I have to. I just want to know. And I’m like, yeah, but we’ve been friends for, like, basically our entire lives.
00:42:23:22 – 00:42:43:13
Agent Palmer
Do you remember when we we had to go to the library or dial up internet and wait for an answer, like even dial up internet wasn’t instant, right? Like we had to wait. We had to really want the answer, and then you had to find it, which was not as simple as just a Google search. And there’s nothing wrong with not knowing.
00:42:43:13 – 00:43:15:33
Agent Palmer
I guess that’s the other thing. Like, it’s okay, you can wonder, you can think, you can be wrong. Like so. Okay. Like I, I think he was born in 52, but I don’t remember. Like I. Right most of the time. And I mean this as a guy who puts stuff on the internet for a living, basically most of the time, the exact dates and details are not important to whatever the conveyance is supposed to be.
00:43:15:38 – 00:43:24:13
Agent Palmer
I’m telling you a story about how John Lennon related to me, how old he was when he died or when he was born is kind of irrelevant.
00:43:24:18 – 00:43:51:09
Adam Ortiz
Right? Well, I mean, it’s it’s it’s a blessing to, you know, learn and it’s all in the palm of your hand, like there’s a lot in the palm of our hand. But isn’t most of the growth when you, like, engage in a conversation? The critical thinking, you go on a journey, you sort of challenge people you know, in a thoughtful way, perhaps, or present new information in a way thing with the, you know, often with the internet, you know, where you’re going, like, I want to land on that fact.
00:43:51:18 – 00:44:12:08
Adam Ortiz
And there’s all that fact, you know, and there’s a lot of, lot of discussion nowadays that we’re we’re losing that ability to connect and talk to people. And, I know that that’s there’s truth to that for sure. But I remember growing up, you know, with Atari and people were saying, oh, and every other kid. So their brains are going to be fried in the back of their heads, you know?
00:44:12:08 – 00:44:33:41
Adam Ortiz
So and, and when, you know, novels in the late 1800s, when people were mass producing novels, you know, teenagers and stuff would just curl up with these, like, pulp novels all the time. And back then parents were like, these things are destroying our children. They’re not engaging anymore. Like, really? Look it up. If you’re okay. We got permission from Jason and I.
00:44:33:41 – 00:44:44:39
Adam Ortiz
You can look up that that. That’s true. But. But I think there is like, it’s so powerful now. And the dopamine piece is stronger than with Atari.
00:44:44:44 – 00:44:45:46
Agent Palmer
Oh, God. Yeah.
00:44:45:51 – 00:45:04:02
Adam Ortiz
You know, and, so I think there’s something to it. But the journey, you know, and I think your larger point was the journey. Let’s go on a journey, you know, and see what we go see. We see along the way. I mean, that’s the interesting stuff. And similarly, I used to travel a lot in my last job and in my free time, I just walk into, I mean, a new city.
00:45:04:02 – 00:45:25:37
Adam Ortiz
I’m just going to go walk in the city, you know, and, I could go to the museum or whatever the tourist thing is. But you see so many incredible nooks and crannies and nuggets about the way that the park is designed or the architecture here, or the way the river comes through, or, you know, the character of this neighborhood, or this used to be the Italian neighborhood or this is where the great tacos are like, that’s really valuable to me.
00:45:25:37 – 00:45:32:44
Adam Ortiz
That’s really a rich experience, you know, you know, rather than.
00:45:32:49 – 00:45:47:59
Adam Ortiz
Than knowing where I’m going to end up, like, I am going to go see the Picasso and like, okay, well, I already know in my head what the Picasso looks like in the museum. But, you know, when you wander, you know, that’s rich, that’s challenging, that’s that provides growth.
00:45:48:04 – 00:46:14:14
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It also reminds me of, like, how it just in our lifetimes, the internet has changed because I think back to, like, early internet, we didn’t know the destination. Like I think there was in our lifetime. There’s a there’s a wonder to the internet that’s been lost because to your point, we know where we want to end up now.
00:46:14:28 – 00:46:35:41
Agent Palmer
Whereas the early internet, you would just types out men to see what happens and you would click on a few links and be, I have no idea where you’d end up from one, you know, one site to the next. And you didn’t know like I remember even and this isn’t on the internet, I remember being lost in Encarta for like an hour or two.
00:46:35:54 – 00:47:00:52
Agent Palmer
Right. That’s just a CD encyclopedia. And you just click through for a while and you didn’t know where you were going to end up. And there is a sense of, I mean, maybe that’s the key, maybe it’s just don’t have the destination because it’ll it will then allow you to go wherever you’re going to go as opposed to like, well, I really want to see that Picasso.
00:47:00:53 – 00:47:02:08
Agent Palmer
It’s like, I mean.
00:47:02:13 – 00:47:25:24
Adam Ortiz
That’s cool. The castle is cool on that. But I think, you know, it’s the old adage, all things in moderation, you know, and, you know, take time to, to start a new journey, take time to connect with somebody in an interpersonal way, somebody you don’t know it very well or, you know, try something. You know, that that interpersonal peace of being in the world and being with other people, like, that’s as important as ever.
00:47:25:30 – 00:47:43:24
Adam Ortiz
You know, if this other stuff is supposed to mean anything, I really believe that. And, you know, to go back to fulfillment, like who is the most fulfilled, you know, it is that the value we have? Yeah. That’s where you get it. You might learn stuff. You know, the internet is cool. You can, you know, we’ve all learned all sorts of great stuff and discover things and it’s accelerated this and that.
00:47:43:29 – 00:47:44:57
Adam Ortiz
But that’s not an end in itself.
00:47:45:06 – 00:48:07:25
Agent Palmer
No, no. And I, I maybe it’s also that left brain right thing. You know, we we are musicians. We’re not great musicians, but we’re musicians, right. Like, so I, I feel like it it I think about those things like I, I hear the melody and the lyrics. Right. And it’s, I also know lyric people or just melody people.
00:48:07:40 – 00:48:28:08
Agent Palmer
I know people that can’t name a song until the chorus. And I know people that. And sometimes I fall into the category of the latter, which is, oh no, like two notes in and I can name that song, right? Like just I don’t I don’t need much more than that. Some people just want to listen to a song.
00:48:28:13 – 00:48:45:42
Agent Palmer
They don’t. They are not looking for meaning either. The fulfillment can come in. Both of those. Both of those things can be fulfilling. Oh, I like this. Or oh, this means something to me. Both of those things are equally can be equally fulfilling to different people, right?
00:48:45:56 – 00:48:46:35
Adam Ortiz
That’s right.
00:48:46:39 – 00:49:09:41
Agent Palmer
So I have to ask about music, one more time, which is like like what’s an album, Adam? What’s an album that I should listen to at your suggestion? Considering we’ve known, I mean, we’ve we overlap in a lot of things. So what’s what’s an album? Adam wants me to listen to?
00:49:09:46 – 00:49:21:13
Adam Ortiz
Wow. Well, I, I don’t know you very well. Let me think for a second. There’s, there’s so many, so many ways to go.
00:49:21:18 – 00:49:27:30
Agent Palmer
If it helps, I can give you a three. Like, if if it helps to not have to just choose one, you know?
00:49:27:41 – 00:49:32:52
Adam Ortiz
All right. So I’ll just say three things that have been in my, like, orbit lately.
00:49:32:54 – 00:49:33:43
Agent Palmer
Okay?
00:49:33:48 – 00:49:59:13
Adam Ortiz
One is after the gold rush, Neil Young. Okay. Like in 69, I think, like, Neil Young is had, you know, a lot of different phases in his career, his early phase that, you know, is really strong. And, you know, he kind of encapsulates sort of the into the 60s and he’s always very down to earth. And I think that album is just a magic album.
00:49:59:18 – 00:50:28:10
Adam Ortiz
And so that one, I, I’m doing a deep dive this week into classical music. Okay. I love to rock. I can rock all day and all night long. But Chopin’s nocturnes, really powerful. Or the second sonata, often. You know, you’re talking about albums. They’re not long enough to fill an album.
00:50:28:10 – 00:50:42:46
Adam Ortiz
So often there’s Sonata on one side and the Nocturnes on the other. Like, really powerful, really deep, like heavy. And even his major key stuff is sad as hell. Like, there’s like some magic.
00:50:42:55 – 00:50:46:12
Agent Palmer
I mean, just that statement is quite impressive. So.
00:50:46:12 – 00:51:11:38
Adam Ortiz
Yeah, that’s, and then the, the third one, anybody in my room thinking about performing it, is Bruce Springsteen’s Nebraska album. It’s, there’s a story behind it, and I don’t quite remember the story, so I might Google it after our. Yes, but, but it’s a really stripped is pretty much him in the acoustic and I think there’s like one cover on it that he does, but it’s just, it just strikes this incredible mood.
00:51:11:43 – 00:51:26:44
Adam Ortiz
It’s not showy. It’s not, it’s a beautiful, subtle album that often gets overlooked. So, those are the three I have for you today. And I would ask the same favor in return, my friend.
00:51:26:49 – 00:51:51:16
Agent Palmer
Let’s see. I have been doing some deep dives of my own. I’m on my what I like to call my second musical journey. The first one was last year. I listen to one album a day all the way through. No, just sit down and listen to an album. And it was chronological from the order of release for like 20 bands and the.
00:51:51:16 – 00:52:15:49
Agent Palmer
And the first journey was like, you know, the foundations of what my music was. So it was like Aerosmith, Tom petty, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Frank Zappa, the band, right there, there were like 20, right. And so there was like 500 albums, one a day, sometimes twice, you know, I’m fairly underemployed. I have that kind of time.
00:52:15:49 – 00:52:32:37
Agent Palmer
And that was before the kid. So I could listen to just sit and listen and actively listen. And now I’m on my second journey, because I finished that one, and I liked it so much because, one of the problems I had before I started this was I would want to listen to music, but I would always be like, I don’t know what to listen to.
00:52:32:41 – 00:52:55:05
Agent Palmer
And having been like, well, I’m just going to listen to this, these 12 bands in order what they released. Whatever. So, I would say, you know, I, I found an appreciation for Dylan that I never had before. I would so I would recommend oh mercy, which I think is one of the underrated albums.
00:52:55:06 – 00:52:55:28
Adam Ortiz
Right.
00:52:55:30 – 00:53:18:13
Agent Palmer
For him. Yep. I would also say because that was part of the first one. In the second one, I, I one of my more recent, because I only know I’ve only known about the band for a decade, even though they’re, they’re from a long time ago. Is the Tragically Hip out of Canada, specifically trouble at the hen House?
00:53:18:13 – 00:53:48:40
Agent Palmer
That album is really good. And then I know he’s coming out with a new album, but, and I’m, I cannot remember, what it, it was it was a punny name and I can’t remember it anymore, but Tim Minchin is a comedic, musician. Right. And he came out with an album that was serious.
00:53:48:45 – 00:54:10:10
Agent Palmer
And I cannot remember. It’s. I just can’t think of the name of it, but it’s it’s his first piece of serious music. All his other stuff is like comedy albums where he does fun songs. Okay. But this was his first serious one. I think it’s, lonely together or apart together. Okay. I think it’s a part together.
00:54:10:14 – 00:54:32:56
Agent Palmer
And that album, that, that album is beautiful and he’s coming out with an as we record this, it’s soon, so it’s probably out by now. When you’re listening to this, he’s coming out with another serious music album. But there’s a live a version of a part together that, I would recommend them both, just because they’re there.
00:54:33:01 – 00:54:49:36
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s really interesting to kind of be like, oh, I really like this song. And then now it’s just like, now it’s just piano. There’s nothing else like after everything else is kind of stripped out. But those are the three I think that I would recommend, to you.
00:54:49:41 – 00:54:51:20
Adam Ortiz
Can you repeat the first one again?
00:54:51:31 – 00:54:53:28
Agent Palmer
That would be, Oh, mercy.
00:54:53:33 – 00:54:54:11
Adam Ortiz
Oh, mercy.
00:54:54:11 – 00:54:56:44
Agent Palmer
Right. Yeah. That was Bob Dylan’s. Oh, mercy.
00:54:56:49 – 00:55:18:02
Adam Ortiz
Right. Yeah. I really got into the, last year. I got into the desire album, the one that hurricane is on. Yep. Yeah, I have a ton of Dylan vinyl that, I’m going back through, but, But anyways, an interesting point. You know, we’re talking about, you know, the good old days when we were growing up.
00:55:18:02 – 00:55:43:31
Adam Ortiz
And kids nowadays, you know, but the album, the concept of an album from start to finish as a work of art. Yeah. You know that, and I do think of it as a work of art, and I question the future of the album since every, you know, music nowadays and as it advantages like playlists and you like this artist are going to knock out like 200 songs just like it from.
00:55:43:36 – 00:56:03:10
Adam Ortiz
And that’s a cool thing. The concept of the album is a complete work of art in itself, rather than just a collection of songs. And, you know, given your task, you know, you know, going through all this classic rock bands chronologically, what I’m hearing in that is that you wanted to take them in as they produced that piece of art in that point of their career.
00:56:03:10 – 00:56:26:20
Agent Palmer
And to see how they reacted to each other as an example, like, that’s, you know, you can you can kind of obviously the Beatles were in there too, like, it’s just how, how things go. But one of the things and I, I don’t know that I’ll ever meet Taylor Swift, but I, I listen to every Taylor Swift album because a friend of mine who’s a big swiftie was like, well, you don’t know her.
00:56:26:20 – 00:57:08:09
Agent Palmer
And I was like, that’s that’s fair, I don’t. So I listened to, them and I think that was kind of the, the key for me because I don’t know, one of her early albums, one of the first for, let’s say, I was listening to it as a whole piece and, and it struck me about, about track seven that this was this felt like a producer’s track list because there was a song about breaking up and a song about getting together and a song about a fight and a song about breaking up.
00:57:08:21 – 00:57:33:00
Agent Palmer
And it just felt like if you rearranged this album, the tracklist and this album, you could make it in theory, one relationship arc, even if they’re all about different relationships. And I think maybe because I think of the album as a whole, I think of it going like, well, if you start here and end here, it’s in one entire relationship arc.
00:57:33:05 – 00:57:55:28
Agent Palmer
And yet, because the tracklist is the way it is, that’s not the way it’s portrayed. That’s not the way you. That’s not the way you hear it. If you listen to it track by track all the way through. And I think like, I mean, as an artist, if if I was ever going to do an album like I would want each, it doesn’t have to musically go into the next song.
00:57:55:28 – 00:58:18:30
Agent Palmer
But I think tracklist is important. Like what comes next is just as important for a track as it would be in a book and a novel, like what the next chapter is. And I you’re right. I think we’ve kind of, we’ve kind of lost that and I’ve going back, you know. Yeah. Dylan and the stones have put out stuff in the last five years.
00:58:18:34 – 00:58:31:46
Agent Palmer
I don’t know that I, you know I, I but it’s hard to find independent stuff. So you need people to really help you. Right. And so I hope it’s out there, I, I would like to think it is.
00:58:31:51 – 00:59:12:17
Adam Ortiz
I think people are. I just don’t think it’s the dominant way of consuming, you know, and I even use that word unconsciously. But it’s an interesting word, consuming music. You know, it’s, and it’s I think, you know, it’s streaming driven. It’s trying to keep your attention. There’s a dopamine, you know, trigger piece in there somewhere. Algorithms. And like I said, I’m not not a hater on new things, but I think with, with changes you give up something and, you know, giving up, you know, and I like as a kid, I got records because they were really cheap, you know, I’d go to Salvation Army and they were $0.25 or $0.50.
00:59:12:17 – 00:59:23:56
Adam Ortiz
So I had this great collection, and I got it from my parents, and it was cheaper than CDs. I still have a lot of them. But I value them differently now because I’m like, this is you can.
00:59:23:56 – 00:59:24:33
Agent Palmer
Hold it.
00:59:24:38 – 00:59:49:07
Adam Ortiz
Now. And, you know, and somebody thought about the cover art and then, you know, often there’s the liner notes that give you some context or something. And it was just like a multi-sensory experience of the art, you know, and not just the the notes of the song or the lyric, but it was like, this is a bigger piece of art that’s like, you know, encapsulating lots of different things.
00:59:49:07 – 01:00:14:10
Adam Ortiz
And I think music is still that, but you don’t have that. It’s different. And, you know, like I say, when you gain something, you know, we’re also giving up something as well. And, you know, it’s okay. But, you know, all the things in moderation and do it mindfully, but but yeah, I think artists are still I think a lot of people still, you know, records still sell, you know, kids.
01:00:14:12 – 01:00:34:31
Adam Ortiz
And I see kids buying records like, kids like legit kids buying records and stuff. So I think there’s something to it. And I also think there’s, you know, gotta be like this. I think permanent backlash also against automation. And, you know, I think, you know, is as attractive as it is to always be on the internet, always be scrolling.
01:00:34:31 – 01:00:52:40
Adam Ortiz
You know, I think there’s a part of all of us are like, eff this, you know, you know, I, I want to be analog. I don’t want I didn’t have the car to be myself, you know.
01:00:52:44 – 01:01:13:56
Agent Palmer
Did you hear it? His voice got all wonky when saying he wanted to go analog. And no, I didn’t do that. But the conversation itself revealed a few outro worthy dialogs that I feel we covered well enough in the conversation that I’ll just reiterate them here. Fulfillment is not the same as wealth. Genuine connection is worth striving for, even if it’s just one fleeting conversation.
01:01:13:56 – 01:01:33:05
Agent Palmer
And having a destination does hinder both your sense of wonder and ability to wander. But there is something else. From the beginning of this episode, I quote met unquote Adam while editing an episode of The Good Government Show. On that show, I learned about his dream of becoming a baseball player or a rock star. And that’s how we started this conversation.
01:01:33:05 – 01:01:51:47
Agent Palmer
And in many ways, it’s fitting to end that way, because Adam hasn’t given up on those dreams, no matter how unlikely. It’s improbable, sure, but for a guy who’s in public service that wants to leave the world better than he found it, he’s still dreaming for himself and that is as admirable as his work in the public sector.
01:01:51:52 – 01:02:12:30
Agent Palmer
Adam is an example, and this conversation is one two. We made a genuine connection. This is why I do this, and this is why you should strike up a conversation. This is what language is for, to help communicate and connect in a meaningful way, to hear things from other people that may help us regain some sense of wonder.
01:02:12:35 – 01:02:33:08
Agent Palmer
Because not everything requires a destination. In fact, to wonder, a destination is the obstacle you must overcome. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 161. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact us in the show notes.
01:02:33:16 – 01:02:51:38
Agent Palmer
There you will find a link to season five, episode three of The Good Government Show featuring Adam Ortiz, titled Keeping Our Country Clean available wherever you’re listening to this episode. The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Email and comments can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things.
01:02:51:38 – 01:02:57:51
Agent Palmer
Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
01:02:57:55 – 01:03:04:37
Agent Palmer
And.
01:03:04:42 – 01:03:37:35
Agent Palmer
You.
01:03:37:40 – 01:03:39:39
Agent Palmer
All right, Adam, do you have one final question for me?
01:03:39:53 – 01:04:01:31
Adam Ortiz
So we’ve covered a lot of ground, and, you contacted me through my work, but we barely talked about my work, which is fine. I talked about it all day long. And listening to your other episodes, it’s really an eclectic. Not just the eclectic, number of guests that you have on the show, but the topics are, wide ranging.
01:04:01:31 – 01:04:27:05
Adam Ortiz
Yes. And I know it’s not like, you know, it’s not just like the Seinfeld, like, this is a show about nothing, you know, like, I think I think you have like, some kind of method. And maybe it’s not something that’s conscious that you’re achieving through the podcast, you know, 150 plus episodes, you know, if if that is true and and if it’s not, say so.
01:04:27:05 – 01:04:40:41
Adam Ortiz
But you know what? What do you think it is like? There’s an authenticity about it. There’s a lack of structure, but that’s actually, I think, a really valuable thing and an over programed media society. Yeah.
01:04:40:41 – 01:05:20:46
Agent Palmer
I think what happened was, look, I, I was a serial podcast guest for a very long time before I started the show. The joke was I didn’t need my own show. I had everyone else’s. I would just guest, guest, guest, and having done that first, maybe kind of like as a stretching of the legs, I got to see formats and approaches, both from, you know, guests and hosts that I was like, all right, well, I, I, I’m close to figuring out what I want to do.
01:05:20:51 – 01:05:42:46
Agent Palmer
The first three were very structured. And that was on purpose. I wanted the first three episodes of the show to tell my background. The first show is about, should I even be doing this show? The second show is about my writing, and the blogging that I do. And the third was about the podcasting that led up into the podcast.
01:05:42:51 – 01:06:12:37
Agent Palmer
And those were fairly on topic. I haven’t really done one on topic since episode three, and I think that that’s kind of been because, I’ve found that there is something to talking for an hour, which I like to equate with just having a cup of coffee. Like if we went, that’s probably not too much, like if we met at a cafe and we hung out for an hour.
01:06:12:42 – 01:06:38:02
Agent Palmer
That’s probably, you know, depending on the conversation, that’s that’s the limit. And a lot of us don’t have much more time than that. So I, I do like it to meander because I, I just don’t know where we’re going to end up. And I guess to go back to, like, what you talked about with the internet of knowing where we want to end up.
01:06:38:07 – 01:07:03:45
Agent Palmer
I don’t I mean, I spend most of my time worrying if I’m going to be good enough because it’s it’s one of the my nervous energy before hitting record is always how I know I should still be doing this show, but I’m also nervous because I never until I’m in it until after record and I check my levels.
01:07:03:50 – 01:07:49:25
Agent Palmer
I never know what my first question is going to be. And I never know if it’s going to be good enough and maybe, you know, it’s it’s not. But we’ve made up for it anyway. Maybe it is good, but it went a different direction. I, I just don’t know. I think I like to, I guess verbally and orally, to, to, to catch the talking and listening parts wander and, you know, there’s also a thing where, and I haven’t said this on the show, but there have been I think two of my previous guests are no longer right.
01:07:49:30 – 01:08:08:32
Agent Palmer
One was an older gentleman. The other, was someone who was afflicted with a lot of, illness. And I didn’t actually one I didn’t really know about them. They weren’t, if you and I never speak again, that’s kind of like the thing. They were guests. It was wonderful. I emailed them back and forth a little bit, but we never really caught up again.
01:08:08:32 – 01:08:42:21
Agent Palmer
And I started working on doing, transcripts of this podcast for my website. And I discovered that they were no more. I didn’t need that to know that, like, this could be my only shot with Adam, you know, like, I don’t know, what happens next? I’ve also made some friends that, you know, invited someone on. We hit it off, and then eventually, you know, you know, two months later, we’re trading cell phones, and we’re just texting back and forth on occasion as just old friends.
01:08:42:26 – 01:09:05:25
Agent Palmer
But I always think that there’s a chance this could be my one and only. So I worry, like, is it good enough? But I also know, my process is one that these will go on a shelf. I’ll edit this as soon as I can. I mean, I’m working ahead, but I’ll edit this is and then I’ll put it on a shelf until the week before it releases.
01:09:05:25 – 01:09:27:38
Agent Palmer
When I listen to it, make my notes and write my intro and outro. Okay. And the one thing I’ve learned over the hundred and 50 plus episodes is that there are no bad episodes. There are episodes where I may have missed the mark. I might think of a question I missed in the long run, or when I’m editing, which is much closer to recording than anything else.
01:09:27:43 – 01:09:50:19
Agent Palmer
But when I listen back for notes and like jogging, my memory of the conversation, none of these are ever bad. They might feel that way in the moment, like because you dwell on the one thing you didn’t ask, or like the one thing, but like you never followed up on. But again, if we were to network at a conference, we only have that 15 minutes.
01:09:50:19 – 01:10:14:30
Agent Palmer
Even if we’re at the bar afterwards, we only have that hour that evening. I’m not going to see you again. Maybe, you know, maybe not. So, like, this is my my chance. And did I do it well enough? And I like to think that most of the time after it’s sat on a shelf for a little bit and I’m not, I’m removed from recency bias and I’m not having to be like, oh, did I do it all right?
01:10:14:35 – 01:10:43:45
Agent Palmer
It’s usually pretty good, but I on a whole, I think maybe two year point, I’ve finally come to the realization that it’s in the not knowing that’s where everything is. I tell the same story on here a few times. It’s evolved. That’s not a mistake. I’ve evolved. So the story I’m telling, even if it’s the same story, is different.
01:10:43:50 – 01:11:17:50
Agent Palmer
And any story you tell me as a preface to something I may come back with will color how I tell my story as well. So even just in less than 90 minutes, because I do have a time limit. I’ve never gone over 90 minutes, but even in less than 90 minutes or as short as 45, you and I can have an impact on each other, even if this is the only conversation we’ve ever had or will have.
01:11:17:55 – 01:11:18:39
Adam Ortiz
That’s right.
01:11:18:43 – 01:11:45:05
Agent Palmer
And that’s oh my God, like to be able to share that with people doesn’t have to be millions. It could be tens. It could be ones. It could be just two people. It’s kind of like, all right, you know, that’s cool. I also think, you know, I do this for myself as well. Like, I need to be engaged.
01:11:45:09 – 01:12:05:05
Agent Palmer
I need to be interested. And at the bare minimum, if that’s a requirement, that’s always fulfilled. I have such a wonderful like, I’m, I’m pretty good at editing and I don’t mind editing, but this is the fun part. Okay, in, you know.
01:12:05:10 – 01:12:07:42
Adam Ortiz
When you came back to the word fulfilled.
01:12:07:47 – 01:12:13:05
Agent Palmer
Not on purpose, but it was in there. So that’s where we that’s where we ended up.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).