Episode 13 of The Palmer Files features guest Neil Cetrangolo of Dark Angels and Pretty Freaks (and vlog spinoff Halos and Heathens).
We discuss anxiety.
Relating to Anxiety we discuss:
- Irrationality
- Acceptance
- Expectations
- Experience
- Origins
- Altruism
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:21:01
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com. I’ve started The Voyage of the Jerle Shannara trilogy by Terry Brooks, a book review of Lost Moons, a basis for the Apollo 13 film, and My mother and Sarah are now texting buddies. Which makes sense, I guess. This is The Palmer Files episode 13 featuring Neil Cetrangolo of the podcast Dark Angels and Pretty Freaks.
00:00:21:05 – 00:00:50:14
Agent Palmer
He’s a podcaster, a vlogger, and a friend, but we don’t discuss any of those things much. This episode is about anxiety. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:50:19 – 00:01:20:16
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stern, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 13th episode is Neil Cetrangolo, who is half of both Dark Angels and Pretty Freaks, a couples podcast he hosts with his wife, and Halos and Heathens, a spin off vlog and YouTube channel. Both brands overlap. Just to let you know, but all of that is a means to say I know Neil because of his podcast, and I knew ahead of time that he would be a great person to have on for this particular episode.
00:01:20:20 – 00:01:40:44
Agent Palmer
As I mentioned, this episode is about anxiety. Anxiety, which is different than being anxious. A point of contention. I don’t think I will ever tire of explaining to people. Neil is someone who I don’t have to explain that to though, as he also lives with anxiety. As you’ll soon find out and how did I know Neil would be great for this episode?
00:01:40:49 – 00:02:01:35
Agent Palmer
He’s been open about his anxiety on his own show many times before, and he’s had plenty of opportunity as dark angels and Pretty Freaks is over 300 episodes, and that includes a short hiatus. He was also a co-host of the podcast previously known as Reasons Are Several, which may return at some point under a new title, and I’ll be sure to let you know when that happens.
00:02:01:35 – 00:02:30:50
Agent Palmer
But all of this is to say that I’ve come to know Neil and we’ve become friends, so what are you in for with this episode? Well, anxiety of course, but also irrationality, acceptance, expectation, experience, origins, and even altruism, all of which relate to anxiety. Anxiety is defined generally as a feeling of worry, nervousness, or unease, typically about an imminent event or something with an uncertain outcome or psychiatrically.
00:02:30:50 – 00:02:54:36
Agent Palmer
It’s defined as a nervous disorder characterized by a state of excessive uneasiness and apprehension, typically with compulsive behavior or panic attacks, but there isn’t much generality to experiencing it. It is a deeply personal thing, especially in the moment. And for all that Neil and I have in common with each other or anyone else who deals with this on a regular basis.
00:02:54:41 – 00:03:15:01
Agent Palmer
Anxiety is perhaps the most personal of issues, and as such varies greatly from person to person. Lastly, before the usual where you can reach us a bit before the episode itself starts in proper, I want to explain and make sure everyone knows that neither Neil nor I are medical professionals, nor are we trying to give out medical advice.
00:03:15:06 – 00:03:35:00
Agent Palmer
We are talking about living with our anxiety, and we are explaining what works for us to pass an attack or get through the day, or what preemptive measures we might take, or reactive measures we might use to mitigate an attack or episode of high anxiety in any form. None of this is medical advice. Please do not mistake it as such.
00:03:35:11 – 00:03:55:12
Agent Palmer
This is what works for us. So if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer. You can tweet the show at the Palmer Files, and you can tweet Neil at Angels Freak seven. You can hear him on the Dark Angels and Pretty Freaks podcast with his co-host and wife on a leash.
00:03:55:23 – 00:04:25:36
Agent Palmer
Wherever you are listening to this show right now and you can visit Daph, pod That Da podcast or Halos and heathens.com depending on what you’re looking for. Don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. And remember all of these links will be available in the show notes. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:04:25:41 – 00:04:29:00
Agent Palmer
Neil, I have anxiety. How about you?
00:04:29:15 – 00:04:34:56
Neil Cetrangolo
Such a blessing, isn’t it? I mean, it’s it’s something special. It is something special.
00:04:35:07 – 00:04:44:42
Agent Palmer
There are like I understand from an evolutionary standpoint, we’re supposed to be anxious but anxious and anxiety. Not the same thing.
00:04:44:55 – 00:05:08:54
Neil Cetrangolo
No. And I mean, yeah, there there is that survival quality to being anxious and a little bit on edge, but, the anxiety thing is definitely not for me, a positive as far as I like the fight or flight thing. You know, this is anxiety for me is definitely one of those, like what happened to my brain and why won’t it stop?
00:05:08:59 – 00:05:32:13
Agent Palmer
So I’m I’m basically in a similar boat, but in a very different way. Right. Like it is. So I’ll come forward with my origin story. I didn’t have it for the longest time. I went through high school. I went through college. No anxiety. I mean, the usual. Oh, I don’t want to go to the dance or like, oh, I’m a little nervous for this test.
00:05:32:18 – 00:05:33:20
Agent Palmer
Whatever it is.
00:05:33:24 – 00:05:34:14
Neil Cetrangolo
Right, right.
00:05:34:18 – 00:05:58:32
Agent Palmer
I graduated from college and I got a job, and things were going fairly well. I was still living at home, but, I mean, such is life. And I went to. So I was still living in Pennsylvania. I went to see my beloved Baltimore Orioles in Baltimore and had my first panic attack at Camden Yards.
00:05:58:37 – 00:05:59:37
Neil Cetrangolo
Oh, wow.
00:05:59:38 – 00:06:25:23
Agent Palmer
So I’m at a baseball game with my uncle. My grandfather was still alive who lived just outside of Baltimore. So my uncle, who is not unfamiliar with anxiety, put up with me like kind of watching, but going to the bathroom all the time because my anxiety from that first moment and ever since his like, manifested itself, is like nausea, and you’re going to throw up at any moment.
00:06:25:28 – 00:06:42:35
Agent Palmer
And, one of the things that is unfortunate about that scenario is I’m not one of those people that comfortable throwing up. Like, I know there are people that exist that are, but I am one of those. It’s like, I would rather just feel like shit. And no, I’m not going to throw up, then throw up and get it over with.
00:06:42:35 – 00:06:44:55
Agent Palmer
Like, that’s never going to be me, right?
00:06:44:57 – 00:06:46:14
Neil Cetrangolo
I get that, yeah, I’m.
00:06:46:14 – 00:07:09:53
Agent Palmer
On the concourse trying to get air and Camden Yards is really well done. Like if you’re on a concourse, you get wind. So it’s not. And I’m just like, like like hyperventilating and like my uncle, like, is checking on me like water. Here’s some Tums, you know, all this stuff, and we end up going to my grandfather’s instead of coming back where they’re just.
00:07:09:55 – 00:07:30:54
Agent Palmer
He’s just like, lay down, relax. And he goes into the, like, the pharmacy gets like some Pepcid and like, all any kind of antacid imaginable. He he has gotten right. So we finally leave my grandfather’s and we go back to his house, which is an hour from my house. And I’m like, you know what? I just I just want to get home.
00:07:30:59 – 00:07:52:44
Agent Palmer
So I got home, went to sleep, woke up the next day and was basically fine. It didn’t happen. It was it was fine. And then like, I don’t I don’t know what the period of time in between was, but the next attack was and this. All right. Let’s talk about I’m an old man. Right. But this is going to date me.
00:07:52:44 – 00:08:02:58
Agent Palmer
And this episode I had a panic attack while driving past and pulled into a Kmart parking lot. Yes, Kmart used to exist. Like.
00:08:03:03 – 00:08:07:12
Neil Cetrangolo
It’s funny. It’s funny. I thought you were going to say a blockbuster, but yeah, okay.
00:08:07:16 – 00:08:10:36
Agent Palmer
I passed a blockbuster on the way to the Kmart.
00:08:10:41 – 00:08:11:58
Neil Cetrangolo
There you go.
00:08:12:02 – 00:08:29:26
Agent Palmer
And I was ten minutes from home and could not drive. Was just. I can’t do it. I can’t do it. Like, I would walk in and get, like, a ginger ale and some Tums at the Kmart. And then I’d come back out to my car and just be like, all right, I nope, can’t do it, can’t do it.
00:08:29:31 – 00:08:52:48
Agent Palmer
And that one was the big one, because that then I went to bed and I didn’t wake up, all right. And I basically lost my appetite. I didn’t eat and I like just like I was just like, I don’t know what’s happening. Like I ended up going, I’ve like, I haven’t been to a doctor in like a decade, but like at this point I’m like, I’m going to the doctor and doctor’s like, there’s nothing physically wrong with you.
00:08:52:59 – 00:09:02:06
Agent Palmer
Like. And they did like the whole, like, gastroenterologist thing, like they did an ultra, like they were like, what’s going on? Because I wasn’t hungry but I wasn’t eating.
00:09:02:11 – 00:09:02:56
Neil Cetrangolo
00:09:03:01 – 00:09:27:13
Agent Palmer
And the doctors just goes like I think it’s anxiety. Like I think it’s stress and anxiety. And I was like well that I like granted I’m not happy. Like I’m a college graduate that works in retail. But I wasn’t poor, I wasn’t destitute, like, so like I don’t know what undue stress in my subconscious was going on. But from that moment on, I’ve basically lived with anxiety.
00:09:27:18 – 00:09:39:18
Neil Cetrangolo
Wow. Yeah. I wanted to ask when when you were at, the park. At the baseball park, did you know, like, what did you think was happening? Did you did you have a feeling it was an anxiety, or were you like, oh, I ate a bad hot dog.
00:09:39:22 – 00:09:45:05
Agent Palmer
I had a my uncle was the one who kind of was like, it appears you’re having a panic attack. Okay.
00:09:45:05 – 00:09:45:44
Neil Cetrangolo
All right, all right.
00:09:45:44 – 00:10:14:45
Agent Palmer
If he hadn’t said that at or at least up to that point for like, the little bit up to that point, no idea. Like, I just I’m just like, I just don’t feel well, like it’s just like, like it just doesn’t feel well. And it it just it’s just unfortunate because when it comes out of nowhere, I knew it wasn’t something I ate because, you know, the it was a day game and it was like I had coffee and a donut, which I’ve eaten, you know, like a million of.
00:10:14:46 – 00:10:17:40
Agent Palmer
So clearly it’s not bad coffee or a donut, like.
00:10:17:40 – 00:10:22:07
Neil Cetrangolo
Right, right. You weren’t having oysters and saying at 8:00 in the morning. Yeah.
00:10:22:07 – 00:10:28:46
Agent Palmer
No. And, and and one of the, the unfortunate part is I usually get a crab cake at the stadium and it was like, I’m not.
00:10:28:51 – 00:10:32:49
Neil Cetrangolo
No, it’s not going to happen this time.
00:10:32:54 – 00:11:06:18
Agent Palmer
And, and so basically I’ve been living with it since now I haven’t seen anybody I kind of like worked my way through it like I was working retail. I had a bunch of panic attacks in the very beginning while I was at work and had to leave because I was like, I just can’t, I can’t. And, I basically piecemeal, a just make yourself get through it kind of a scenario where right, the mall at that time when I was living with my parents was 25 minutes away and I had to get on the highway to get there.
00:11:06:23 – 00:11:25:59
Agent Palmer
And I was like, all right, if I can get to the mall, I’ll buy myself something like, it was really like, I’m going to give myself these little challenges, get through this. It’s going to be very uncomfortable. And, driving like driving change too. By the way. Like while I was still panicked driving, I could not be in the passenger seat of a car.
00:11:25:59 – 00:11:48:06
Agent Palmer
I could not be in the back seat of a car. It wasn’t until like later that I was like, oh no, please, no no no, no, like that’s not happening. Meanwhile, like before, it was like, well, I never want to drive. I don’t want to pay for gas you like. And now it’s like, no, but like getting on the highway with especially with three miles and a little traffic and no off ramp.
00:11:48:06 – 00:12:03:35
Agent Palmer
I’m like, gripping the wheel. Panicked. Yeah. And then I’d get to the mall and it would be like, all right, well, I got here. And then there’s like a slight panic of like, I have to do that again to go back. And I’m still like, all right, but I’m going to, I’m going to buy a movie or something.
00:12:03:41 – 00:12:30:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah, or a book or whatever. Like just I was trying to treat myself and like, just you, you have to get out. You have to. You can’t. And I finally got comfortable going back to work, and it was more of just like getting comfortable. And it got to a point where when I got my first professional job, you know, they still happened all the time and I can hide them fairly well at this point and I just have to get used to it.
00:12:30:10 – 00:12:47:52
Agent Palmer
So like the first two weeks I was in my professional job, it was like nerve wracking. And then you just get comfortable and as long as I’m comfortable, if I go to my next door neighbor’s house, I’d probably have a little bit of anxiety if I go there five times after the fifth time, fourth time, whatever. When I get comfortable over there.
00:12:47:57 – 00:13:08:51
Agent Palmer
Fair enough. I’m I’m fine. But it’s just been this. I’ve been. But I’ve been figuring it out, and it’s like I got sick of eating Tums all the time, I bet. So I started to replace them. And now I use, the freshman Tic Tacs, because a mint is just like a placebo for me at this point. Right.
00:13:08:55 – 00:13:14:23
Agent Palmer
And it’s so much more inconspicuous popping a Tic TAC than popping atoms. So I keep.
00:13:14:23 – 00:13:15:37
Neil Cetrangolo
Solutely.
00:13:15:42 – 00:13:34:00
Agent Palmer
But this is now my life, and I. I have to watch what I eat, because if I have a full meal and then have an anxiety attack, it’s so much worse. So I don’t eat as much when I’m out or I don’t eat before I go out or whatever. Like I, I’ve basically changed the entire way I live, but I’m still living.
00:13:34:11 – 00:13:54:41
Agent Palmer
I know people listening to this are going to be like, what the just go get some help, do this, do that, whatever. Like, no, I’m, I’ve, I’ve managed to kind of get through it, but I, I do still fondly look back at like before. Right. Like this was never an issue I didn’t have to worry about. Like, am I right?
00:13:54:41 – 00:14:14:14
Agent Palmer
Did I eat a little bit? Do I have a water with me? Do I have a ginger ale handy? What’s the you know, like what? I checked before I left the house. Before I had anxiety was like my keys and maybe my phone, and now it’s like, all right, do I have the Tic Tacs? Do I have a bottle of water?
00:14:14:14 – 00:14:23:08
Agent Palmer
Maybe I should take a can or a bottle of ginger ale with me. Where am I going? Is there going to be a, you know, it’s just like it’s a whole new life.
00:14:23:13 – 00:14:46:30
Neil Cetrangolo
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you a question. You said when you feel comfortable, that feeling of comfort, is it a is it like a safety thing or is it, like, I recognize this thing. I know what’s going to happen. Like you said, if you go to your, your neighbor’s house, you’ll be a little uncomfortable. But if you go five days in a row by the fifth day, so is it more like, oh, I know how this is going to go.
00:14:46:30 – 00:14:52:52
Neil Cetrangolo
So I, I, I there’s no under no huge unknowns coming at me. Or is it just a feeling of safety?
00:14:53:01 – 00:15:20:10
Agent Palmer
I you know what? It’s a good question. I’ve never really thought I think it’s, familiarity more than anything. It might be the. Oh okay. I know what to expect here. I mean, I’ve, I’ve, I used to do events at my last job and they were the most nerve wracking. And the only good thing about an event is when you’re working an event, your mind doesn’t have as much time.
00:15:20:10 – 00:15:50:35
Agent Palmer
But like, we would show up early and when setup was done in like that little 15 minute lull before, like people start arriving, the the heart rate starts to go up a little bit. It’s like, oh boy. Okay. And because I’m so self-conscious about keeping the stomach in check because it’s the number one symptom I have, it’s like, all right, well, I’m going to go a little easy on the coffee this morning, or I’m I’m not going to eat as much, or I basically changed everything.
00:15:50:35 – 00:16:04:18
Agent Palmer
It’s ridiculous. But you were. I mean, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on was because you also have a before anxiety persona and life that was different, right?
00:16:04:22 – 00:16:31:44
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah. Yeah. So my anxiety, most of it is caused because I have, through multiple concussions. I have scarring on my brain. They actually have the picture and they go, so where it’s pressing on my brain is, is the place where sometimes rational and irrational and fear and anxiety will manifest. So I kind of went from having the normal anxiety, like you were talking about the regular.
00:16:31:49 – 00:17:14:51
Neil Cetrangolo
You get a little bit anxious meeting somebody new, being in a place with a lot of people, having to maybe public speaking or, you know, the just the things that make us normally nervous. And I was fine. That didn’t bother me. And then it went from that almost overnight anxiety and not knowing how to handle it at all, and then also having it trigger like a sadness and a depression one, because I didn’t understand what was happening to was when I get anxious, I get really scared that that’s how I’m going to feel for the rest of my life.
00:17:15:06 – 00:17:36:15
Neil Cetrangolo
Like, this is the time, that this is it. It’ll never go away. And that was from the first time I really experienced it. And it it still happens. You know, sometimes it’s irrational. So it still happens. And I’ll get anxious and it’s like, oh, no, this is it. I’m done. And I don’t get anxious about what most people would think.
00:17:36:15 – 00:18:00:34
Neil Cetrangolo
I will get huge anxiety because I will forget the difference between they’re there and they’re just totally random. 2:00 in the morning. Wake up. We all have computers, cell phones. I could just and for some reason my brain just shut, shuts it off. It just like I and I, and then all of a sudden I’m just in this downward spiral of the typical signs of anxiety, right?
00:18:00:34 – 00:18:22:21
Neil Cetrangolo
The the rapid heart rate, shallow breathing, sweating, nervous like, I can’t I can’t figure out which way’s up. Everything is terrible. My life is over. I don’t know what’s happening. All because of that. I’ll be in my car driving and it’ll be hot. And I won’t want to turn the air conditioning on because I’m afraid the air conditioning pump is going to burn out.
00:18:22:34 – 00:18:45:44
Neil Cetrangolo
Now I’m in a spot financially. I’m fortunate I have a newer vehicle. If the air conditioner went out, I am very fortunate. I can afford to just get it fixed. If it was terrible, I could just roll down a window or two. I mean, there’s there’s no rational rationality to it whatsoever, but it will get me to the point where I’m like, I, I think I need to pull over.
00:18:45:44 – 00:18:46:43
Neil Cetrangolo
I don’t think I can drive.
00:18:46:43 – 00:19:06:57
Agent Palmer
The driving is probably the worst, depending on where you’re going. Right? Like, I, I mean, I’ve talked about it a little bit on this show and anybody who’s followed me for a while, they know I drove to Michigan with Bill, pulled up with a ton. Right. Like it’s early October. Right. But there are times when I’m like, I got to roll the window down a little bit.
00:19:06:57 – 00:19:32:49
Agent Palmer
I just, I need some air like, and there are places, especially when you’re driving across Pennsylvania or across a state where you’re on a highway that it’s it’s not like there’s a place to pull over every five minutes or something, which I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know, it’s probably more rational for like everybody with anxiety. But when you know you don’t have an out.
00:19:32:54 – 00:19:51:37
Agent Palmer
If I’m driving in a city I know I can pull over anywhere, I can pull into a store, a fast food doesn’t matter. But on a highway like it’s amped up because you’re like, all right, well, I can’t pull over. I just gotta keep going.
00:19:51:41 – 00:20:20:40
Neil Cetrangolo
And yeah. See, I get a little this is going to sound really weird, but I have a little bit of in the anxiety world, a little bit of jealousy for, about people that know what might set them off. So I’d love to know like oh crap, it’s going to happen. And, and I can tell everybody around me like, I’m going to be a frickin mess because we’re going, we’re getting on the road and I just I don’t handle it.
00:20:20:40 – 00:20:42:58
Neil Cetrangolo
Well, the, the thing that really bums me out. And then from my for me, because I don’t know when it’s going to happen, I’m always on edge about stuff. And when it does, I get really self-conscious because I know it’s going to affect the people around me. Maybe not in a huge way, but I know it’s going to happen.
00:20:42:58 – 00:20:49:55
Neil Cetrangolo
And then I beat myself up for that, and then I start to get depressed. So now I’m anxious about something totally asinine and depressed.
00:20:49:55 – 00:20:56:03
Agent Palmer
So, you know, you have it. D are you are you willing to tell people when it’s happening?
00:20:56:08 – 00:20:57:09
Neil Cetrangolo
Absolutely. I have to.
00:20:57:09 – 00:20:58:06
Agent Palmer
Okay. Because it’s it’s.
00:20:58:06 – 00:21:18:24
Neil Cetrangolo
So it’s so random that, I mean people that are close to me, like if I’m in the store, I’m not going to turn around to the person and go, I’m freaking out right now because this lemon is just blowing my mind. You know, that’s fine, but but with on a lease, you know, with my wife, with my, my good friends, my family.
00:21:18:24 – 00:21:34:53
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah. I have to say, because it’s, there’s, you know, all of a sudden they’ll look at me and they’re like, what is going on with you? And I’m staring at something, and I’m like, I cannot. I’m freaking out because I can’t remember the the part I played in a play in sixth grade C and I can’t let it go.
00:21:34:53 – 00:22:03:36
Agent Palmer
And for me, there is still that random nature that’s scary. Like so Jason Zapata and I was the ninth guest on this show, and I have been friends since for two decades now, at least. And Steph and, the three of us went out for the day and we had a nice like lunch. And we were driving around and all of a sudden, like, I’m driving in the car.
00:22:03:41 – 00:22:29:07
Agent Palmer
And it was, you know, winter was, you know, no, like it was cold outside. And all of a sudden the window goes down and they both look at me and I’ve just got like the white knuckles, and I’m not I’m not driving like I’m driving around my local haunts, like we’re not. We didn’t go anywhere crazy. I’m with my girlfriend and my best friend of two decades, and it’s just like, no, don’t.
00:22:29:07 – 00:22:51:20
Agent Palmer
No no no, it’s it’s happening. It’s happening now. Steph’s been around a little bit more and I’ve started to like, I don’t I still don’t tell. She still gets pissed. I don’t tell her every time it happens. But I’m afraid that like it will color whatever we’re doing for her. So unless it’s like beyond my control, I kind of just just get quiet, right?
00:22:51:20 – 00:23:21:45
Agent Palmer
I think she starting to pick up on what happened, but Zapata had never seen it, so. Friend. Oh, I mean this. We’re finally living close together again. So for a long time he wouldn’t have seen it anyway. But I’m trying to tell them, like, I, I mean, and they want to talk about it, but the last thing you want to do when you’re having a panic attack and maybe like, starting to get sick to your stomach is talk at all like, I don’t I don’t want to make a I barely want to breathe.
00:23:21:45 – 00:23:46:33
Agent Palmer
I don’t want to move. I just, yeah. And so there is still a random nature, which I don’t look around every corner, but it’s, it’s the I, I make sure I have a water, I make sure I have, like the few things I know that might mitigate it a little bit, but I, I really wish I could just flip a switch and go back.
00:23:46:38 – 00:24:14:48
Neil Cetrangolo
Oh, it I spent most of my time just trying to accept who I am now. Like when I’m dealing with my, you know, my issues are myself. That’s the biggest thing because I really liked and I and I like the life I have now and I’m trying to accept and like who I am. But I really liked who I was before, and I’m not a big fan of this new version as much as I was the other version.
00:24:14:53 – 00:24:39:12
Neil Cetrangolo
And like on Elise and I have been together since before this happened. So I also have this fear that this will someday just be too much and she’ll just be like, I, you know, this isn’t this isn’t who I met. You’re not the same person, which is absolutely 100% true. So there’s always that I battle with myself on how much do I share and how much do I keep?
00:24:39:12 – 00:24:57:46
Neil Cetrangolo
And then I just decided, well, if I’m willing to be in a relationship with you, then I need to be willing to let you know the truth so you can make the decisions you need to make. So if you’re going to be with me, you’re going to be with me for all the stuff I’m going through. Not, oh, I’m going to try and pretend I’m someone I’m not.
00:24:57:46 – 00:25:12:35
Neil Cetrangolo
And then if you if that’s too much, you get to make that decision based on the truth and not like if, you know, I’d hate for something to happen. And you know, she’s like, oh, I’ve had enough. And then we talk as friends later and she’s like, well, if you would have just told me what was going on, I could have dealt with it.
00:25:12:35 – 00:25:29:44
Neil Cetrangolo
But I didn’t know what was going on. So it was always like, add a left field. So but missing the person I was. I do go to, therapy. I, I have to keep getting checked because of the scarring on my brain. So I have to, you know, have MRI’s all the time and have different epilepsy or.
00:25:29:49 – 00:26:01:28
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah. Epilepsy. Epilepsy. Yeah. Seizure tests. And so I do go talk to a doctor because I, I don’t know, sometimes, like, is this just normal weird stuff? I’m also getting older or is this, like, something that’s bizarre and most of the time is spent just trying to figure out that it’s okay to let go of that person and just appreciate that I had that life and then make this one the best that I can with as much acceptance as I can.
00:26:01:33 – 00:26:20:17
Neil Cetrangolo
And I know you were you were asking or you did ask about letting people around me know that has started to help me in the sense that then I don’t feel as weird just shutting something down. Like if I’m like, I just can’t do this right now. Then everyone’s like, oh, it’s not because you don’t want to do it.
00:26:20:29 – 00:26:44:39
Neil Cetrangolo
You’re just having a hard time. And it’s usually like little silly things like, I just can’t make dinner right now. I’m just I’m so, you know, it’s I fortunately, like going out and being around people and traveling. I’m fortunate that I feel comfortable doing that. But it might be like, oh, I, you know, if we’re in Vegas Arena, it might be like, I need I just need to go back to the room, see?
00:26:44:39 – 00:27:14:32
Agent Palmer
And I’ve been deflecting because, like, I know I can’t do those big ticket things. I know a road trip is possible, but it won’t be fun, right? And I know getting on a plane is probably not going to happen. So, like, if we want to go out to dinner and I start to get anxious, like I’m just like, I just don’t feel like it and I but I but I try not to, like I try not to use anxiety as a crutch, but I’m basically using everything else.
00:27:14:46 – 00:27:36:05
Agent Palmer
Like I don’t feel like it. Oh, I got work to do tonight. Like, oh, I got so and so, you know, like so, so there are these things and I’m trying a little bit more to be honest. But if, if I was as honest as I should be, I don’t know, like I just it’s, it’s that fear of like, well I’m, I’m holding you back like.
00:27:36:10 – 00:28:02:04
Agent Palmer
Or because it’s not, it’s never myself I’m completely comfortable not doing something but like it’s like it’s like, oh, you know, my parents want to take us out to dinner or like, so, you know, it’s like, you know. Yeah. And I know I can quote unquote toughen through it because I have, but that’s not.
00:28:02:09 – 00:28:04:00
Neil Cetrangolo
That’s not a that’s not a happy life.
00:28:04:00 – 00:28:13:10
Agent Palmer
No, it’s not a happy life. And it’s it’s also not like, like, oh, good. You got to have fun. And I was there like,
00:28:13:14 – 00:28:38:54
Neil Cetrangolo
And and it’s not like I know I can tough out through, this workout or this run or not eating sugar for a year. This isn’t something where you come out on the other side and you’re like, oh, great, you’re going to tough it out and feel terrible and you’re not getting any benefit. It’s not like if, oh, if I did this 17 times, it would totally go away.
00:28:38:54 – 00:29:06:12
Neil Cetrangolo
You know, if I told you, hey, if you fly 17 times on the 18th time, you’d be fine. You’d be like, okay, then I can tough that out. Yeah, but to know at the 17th you’re going to feel the same you did on the first and be miserable. Yeah. It’s and and yeah, that’s, that’s the thing that I think is I think that’s what’s difficult for people that don’t have anxiety or sometimes don’t have any sort of mental issue, whether it’s depression or anything else that it’s not.
00:29:06:12 – 00:29:26:51
Neil Cetrangolo
It doesn’t get better. It would be great if it did. But it I mean, and for some of us, some people, they can’t take medication and, and and depression can get better. But in that time it’s one of those things like, no, this is this is who I am. Like for me it’s that accepting. It’s like, no, this is, this is it.
00:29:26:51 – 00:29:54:43
Neil Cetrangolo
This is how it’s going to be. You know, there are things I can’t do, like I did. And it’s it is hard. I mean, I it can be devastating to me. And I’ve got to be really careful not to go into that. Looking back the whole time and just going, well, this is this is who you are. So do what you can and enjoy what you can and put the people around you that are willing to do that with you or for you or however you want to look at it.
00:29:54:57 – 00:30:05:42
Neil Cetrangolo
You know, it’s like if all of a sudden I was hanging out with a bunch of marathon runners, they probably wouldn’t want to hang out because I don’t run marathons, you know? So it’s like, why am I going to try to hang out with marathon runners?
00:30:05:43 – 00:30:07:35
Agent Palmer
There’s two mile meal.
00:30:07:40 – 00:30:26:15
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah, right. Yeah. They’d be like, what are you doing? I’m like, I’m playing guitar. And they’re like, no, we’re going for a run. And I’m like, no, no, I’m playing guitar. You know? It’s like, well, maybe, you know, surround myself with people that understand or accept the crazy. Well, I call it crazy and I’m not trying to put it down.
00:30:26:15 – 00:30:49:12
Neil Cetrangolo
It just for me, it’s a fun word. I don’t view it as a negative thing. So I’m not trying to offend anybody out there, but my own craziness and what’s in my head is surround people with go like, oh yeah, oh, can we get that? At the same time, I don’t limit anyone around me or on a leash or my friends or my family for do you know if I’m like, oh, I can’t, I can’t do this thing right now because this lemon is freaking me out.
00:30:49:12 – 00:31:02:35
Neil Cetrangolo
And I’m like, well, you go do the thing, and I’m just going to stare at this lemon for two hours and we’ll figure it out later. You know, fortunately, I’m not at a place where I’m like, I can’t do this. So I don’t want you to do it either.
00:31:02:40 – 00:31:25:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think that I spent enough time alone before Steph came into my life where I was, you know, I get invited to places and I’d be like, now you guys do your thing. And I know that at a certain point it becomes like, oh, we’re just not going to invite him. He never comes out. But I’m now surrounded with people that don’t give a shit.
00:31:25:24 – 00:31:54:24
Agent Palmer
So like I can say no and I know they’ll still ask which is very nice. Especially because there are times I have to say no like and it’s, it’s just, it’s, it goes to the irrational nature of it to the X degree because it’s like these are people I like doing a thing I like and a place where I’m comfortable and I’m just not feeling it like it just.
00:31:54:29 – 00:32:25:12
Agent Palmer
Nope. Not like. And it’s just something it’s literally like a before and after and it’s hard. I don’t think about the before until I’m having conversations or explaining it to people because they’re like, oh, well, how’d you get through high school? Be like, well, I, I didn’t have it then. Like and then what, what caused it? I, I don’t know, I was, I was at a baseball game like I, it’s not like I was thinking, you know, I wasn’t trying to like save a man’s life and failed miserably.
00:32:25:12 – 00:32:45:18
Agent Palmer
And I’ve been you like I right. Like it just I was at a baseball game when it happened for the first time, like, oh my God, there was a man on first and he took off and the pitch came. And then one. No. Like, it’s like there was nothing rational about it at all, if anything. Like I was very excited to be where I was at that moment.
00:32:45:18 – 00:32:52:54
Agent Palmer
And then it’s just like, well, now I’ve got a different thing in front of me.
00:32:52:59 – 00:33:02:11
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah, it’s funny when people, when people ask you, and, and they say, well, what caused it? You should just say, oh, people asking me questions.
00:33:02:16 – 00:33:20:41
Agent Palmer
I try, I try to be forthcoming about it too. Like just I’m still looking for a job. I’ve been networking with people, but when I get to a point where we might be talking about it like a potential job, I’m just. All right, hold on. Like, even though you’re going to pay me, I can’t get on a plane right now.
00:33:20:46 – 00:33:39:26
Agent Palmer
I don’t know if that will change, but at the moment I can’t. And I do have anxiety, but I can get through it. But I’m being honest with you in up front right now because I don’t want to get a scenario where, like, it’s taken me a while, like when I finally find a job, I’m going to try and hold on to it as much as possible.
00:33:39:26 – 00:33:56:42
Agent Palmer
The last thing I want to do is, oh yeah, I can do anything. And then they’re going to be like, all right, well, you know, stand on one leg. Really. I can’t I can’t stand on one leg. It just so I try to be upfront. So I have talked about it with, I guess quote unquote strangers a little bit more often.
00:33:56:42 – 00:34:22:58
Agent Palmer
I mean, the people I’m networking with or the potential, you know, employers, they’re not friends. I mean, I might know them, but not to that level. And I would love to say to the people listening to this, like talking about it helps. It doesn’t hurt. I’m never going to say like, oh, like, this is horrible. Like, like, and I don’t get anxiety talking about anxiety unless I’ve already having an attack.
00:34:23:02 – 00:34:51:19
Agent Palmer
But it’s just there’s a it’s you just, you know, I always go back to it like, it’s just irrational. So there’s going to be. No. And it being irrational means there’s no salve. It’s just not like there’s one. Oh, my God, I pop a TikTok. I’m fucking fine. No, it helps me calm down. We’re like, I so when I got a Fitbit, Steph got me the one that monitors your heart rate.
00:34:51:23 – 00:35:06:06
Agent Palmer
And I, I’ve been unemployed and my last temporary job was working from home. So like I still have them at home but not as much. But when I would have them when I’m out, the first thing I do is look and see what my actual heart rate is, because I know it’s going up like I can feel it.
00:35:06:06 – 00:35:27:45
Agent Palmer
I don’t, and I feel like it’s probably like it’s probably though I should probably take the Fitbit off, right? Because like, I feel the heart rate going, I feel flushed and like feverish. I don’t need to look down and realize that I’ve been sitting for an hour and my heart rate’s 115. Like, that’s not like that. That’s not that.
00:35:27:45 – 00:35:49:07
Agent Palmer
But I don’t know why. I just I always look now like, yeah, what is it? Oh, it wasn’t as bad as three weeks ago. And it was 120 like I’m making it a contest with myself to see like, oh, it’s not, but but when you’re in it, like you’re in it, there is nothing else. It’s the alpha, it’s the omega.
00:35:49:07 – 00:35:51:32
Agent Palmer
It’s everything. It does it it.
00:35:51:32 – 00:36:12:20
Neil Cetrangolo
It consumes you. It is. It beat you. You and and the anxiety are one. It’s it’s very hard for me to explain because I didn’t get it. I mean, I had friends that had anxiety growing up, and I was as supportive as I could be. And I in the back of my head, I definitely had that, oh my gosh, get over it.
00:36:12:20 – 00:36:18:38
Neil Cetrangolo
Not in a negative way, but in the oh, I can help you. Oh come on, it’s not. We can go to the movies. It’s not that bad.
00:36:18:47 – 00:36:22:23
Agent Palmer
Let’s just talk it out. Yeah, we’ll just talk it out. It’ll be fine.
00:36:22:28 – 00:36:44:11
Neil Cetrangolo
Right. And I have a friend now that doesn’t like to go out a lot. And I ask all the time, and, you know, he asked me was like, why do you keep asking? And I said, it’s just so, you know, I mean, I know you’re going to say no. Maybe one day you won’t. But it just so you know that I think about that, like, I, I want you there and I want that little bit for you.
00:36:44:15 – 00:37:06:37
Neil Cetrangolo
Hey, I’m not upset that you say no, but I want that comfort inside you to go like, oh, I’m not being forgotten about. Like, yeah, I’m thought about for these things even though I don’t go because to me that’s that helps me, you know, if I’m having a bad day or I’m in a bad situation to know that that person’s like, cool, we’ll try again tomorrow or don’t don’t worry about that.
00:37:06:39 – 00:37:39:22
Neil Cetrangolo
You know, I’ll take care of it. I mean, I know being told, don’t worry when you’re worrying doesn’t help. But there’s something kind about it coming from somebody when you look back and go, oh, that was nice. They meant that in in a positive way. But it, it is very difficult to explain to somebody just how, how you absolutely lose who you are in this moment that you can never explain super rational, you know, actually in a rational way, I should say.
00:37:39:22 – 00:38:04:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, the, the closest thing I can come to even attempting to explain it is when you’re super sick, like food poisoning, all you can think about is how you feel and you don’t feel well, which is what you’re now thinking about is that you don’t feel well. Right. And that’s that’s the closest cycle I can come to.
00:38:04:26 – 00:38:12:46
Agent Palmer
Except you didn’t eat a bad burrito, like. Right? You aren’t super hung over. You’re just you were fine a minute ago, and now you’re not.
00:38:12:51 – 00:38:38:48
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah, for me, I it’s that I, it’s hard unless somebody’s been in the situation. But unless you’ve surfed or when you learn how to swim. And there’s that feeling where your, your head keeps going under water and you don’t know that you’re going to be okay because you haven’t been in that situation. It’s that feeling of total loss of control and at the same time, people telling you, like, you know, you think you’re drowning, you don’t know which way is up.
00:38:38:48 – 00:38:59:45
Neil Cetrangolo
And then somebody says like, oh, who do you think won the World Series next year? And you’re like, I am so not there. I’m afraid I’m dying, you know? Yeah. And but to everyone else, they’re like, it’s only three feet, stand up, you know, and you’re like, I, I to me it’s not. To me it’s a 20ft, you know, pool with sharks and all this stuff.
00:38:59:45 – 00:39:04:58
Agent Palmer
I can’t control my legs. What do you mean, stand up? I don’t yeah. What legs like. Yeah.
00:39:04:58 – 00:39:32:13
Neil Cetrangolo
It’s it it’s really hard. And it has certainly given me a lot of empathy towards people that have that have suffered through anxiety or with anxiety for their whole lives, because I, I that’s when I feel fortunate, because I had all this time and again, my anxiety is a little bit different. So I don’t have the fear part of it all the time of like, oh my gosh, we have to go to this, whatever it is, you know?
00:39:32:18 – 00:39:50:43
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah. And I have to get into the car and I have to do this because if I don’t, all these people will be disappointed. Me, whether it’s a holiday, a wedding, a funeral, whatever. You know, those things you kind of have to go to. So I don’t have that. And I, I do have that like to look back and go, oh, this, this hasn’t been my whole life.
00:39:50:47 – 00:40:09:01
Neil Cetrangolo
And it makes me those are when I can sit in that it makes me feel better about where I’m at because I’m like, oh, I got to experience all this stuff without all this fear and anxiety, and now I just have to deal. And for me, I always feel like it’s it’s much I mean, for me it’s huge.
00:40:09:10 – 00:40:30:38
Neil Cetrangolo
But on the grand scale of what some people go through, like some of the things you talk about and have talked about, I and the things I know about because obviously I, I know you out of podcasting, you know, ten years now, I’ve, I it’s like, wow, that’s that’s tough. You know the the that oh, you know, the plane thing isn’t going to happen.
00:40:30:43 – 00:40:53:42
Neil Cetrangolo
Might never happen. But I know that takes a mental toll too, because it’s hard to say for me. It’s hard to say like I can’t do that. Not because of a physical, you know, liability or a disability or not because of a financial one, but because my mind won’t let me do that. Yeah. And that that can take a huge toll.
00:40:53:42 – 00:41:14:43
Neil Cetrangolo
And it’s like, I think about, you and other friends that go through that and think, wow, that, that that is tough. That’s tough. You know, as much as we want it not to be tough, and as much as we say, well, we won’t do those things, which is a great way to take care of yourself. There’s still that voice in the back of you, like for me, in the back of my head going, why can’t I do the I want?
00:41:14:48 – 00:41:24:00
Neil Cetrangolo
Why can’t I just let me do that frickin thing, you know, let me do it once and feel fine, and then I’ll I don’t care if I ever do it again, but let me just do that.
00:41:24:05 – 00:41:50:39
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I’ve come to two. I don’t know if they’re realizations so much as they’re rationalizations, which is I’ve lowered my expectations is one right. So while yes, I, I still have a blog and I still launched a podcast and those some people can consider lofty for me, those are creative outlets and I don’t see them as taking chances.
00:41:50:44 – 00:42:18:24
Agent Palmer
So I, I’ve lowered like I keep my expectations where they should be there. But socially it’s like I, I one day I would love to drive across the country. Given where I’m at with anxiety right now I would need to be independently wealthy. So that way if I had a panic attack in Iowa, I could just stay an extra day in Iowa and still make it to see you in California, right?
00:42:18:24 – 00:42:43:31
Agent Palmer
Like, oh, it’s going to be another day as opposed to like, you get two weeks off. I got a week to get out there in a week to come back. Like, I know, because if I have a breakdown mentally somewhere along the way, I need the extra time. So I, you know, so it’s little trips that I know, you know, even if I have to pull over for a half hour, I’ll.
00:42:43:36 – 00:43:02:59
Agent Palmer
I can make it there in an hour, you know. So I’ve lowered that and, and then the other part of it is like I’ve become comfortable and happy with the life I lead so well, I can’t get on a plane. I’m not unhappy because I can’t get on a plane, because that’s the other way to look at it.
00:43:03:08 – 00:43:28:19
Agent Palmer
It’s, oh fuck, my life is shit because I can’t fly to California. It’s like, no, it’s my life’s not shit. I could still talk to Neil if I want to. You know, it’s not like my friend. I mean, podcasting is great in that we now have friends all over, and I, I, I know some would like to see me more often than they do, but most of them know about this.
00:43:28:19 – 00:43:50:41
Agent Palmer
And if they don’t, they do. Now. But knowing that. Okay, you’re my friend and we’re good. Like, even if it’s just a text or a phone call, and I’ll never be able to give you a hug. We’re still fucking friends. It’s fine. And so, like, having those expectations lowered a little bit for myself because I don’t expect you to come here like I.
00:43:50:42 – 00:43:56:32
Agent Palmer
It’s not like, oh, well, you know, you make the effort like I’m not going to be that way, you know what I mean? So like.
00:43:56:36 – 00:44:16:25
Neil Cetrangolo
It’s it’s funny you mention that because it’s kind of cool because in my head while you were saying that, I’m like, the amazing thing is I can go there, that all of that stuff that maybe you can’t do. Fortunately for me, you know, because my, my anxiety is different, I can do that. So I can so those things can still happen.
00:44:16:38 – 00:44:34:38
Neil Cetrangolo
And I think the big change for me, like we were talking about the empathy and the understanding is now like, I wouldn’t want you to even try to do it if you weren’t 100% on wanting to try to do it, because I’m like, it’s just so much easier for me to go there. And then knowing like, hey, I may go that way and you’re like, cool.
00:44:34:42 – 00:44:54:56
Neil Cetrangolo
We might only hang out for five minutes in person because something might come up for you, and I’ll totally get that. I’ll be like, that’s worth it. That’s totally fine, I get it. I’m going to go stressed out about my lemons now, you know? So we’ll talk later. But I, I think that’s hard for some people to understand how huge that can be.
00:44:55:01 – 00:45:19:36
Neil Cetrangolo
Because you wouldn’t ask. But I know for me, when somebody says like, oh, that’s not working or you’re having a hard time right now, let’s just do this. It’s huge for me mentally because I, like I said, I, I do beat myself up so much for when the anxiety hits me. I’m like, I mean, it’s just this spiral of why can’t I stop thinking about this right now?
00:45:19:36 – 00:45:40:02
Neil Cetrangolo
For me, it’s usually a thought. It’s not necessarily I mean, I’m not a big fan of crowds. Usually because I’m afraid something will happen and I’ll be exposed. And then all these people I don’t, I that whole sanctimonious, grandiose vision of myself, I think that everybody around is going to notice what’s going on with me when no one really will.
00:45:40:11 – 00:45:57:03
Neil Cetrangolo
But in that moment, it that’s that’s that feeling of, oh my God, I’m freaking out about this word or this thing or whatever, and all these people now know. So that’s when I get nervous and I’m like, well, I don’t want to do that because I’m afraid this thing that I don’t I can’t control is going to happen.
00:45:57:05 – 00:46:18:54
Agent Palmer
And see, for me, it’s the same words, but in a different order, like crowds. For me, it’s because I can’t control anybody else. And I’m not. I’m not that I would want to, but just like that person could throw a thing like that, like like, oh my God. Like I’m. It might be too crowded. Like I might not, I might not have enough personal space, which is the number one way to get me going.
00:46:18:54 – 00:46:22:40
Agent Palmer
Like, sure. Like, yeah.
00:46:22:44 – 00:46:24:43
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah. And you’re like, yeah.
00:46:24:43 – 00:46:47:34
Agent Palmer
It’s, it’s that thing where it’s like, well, I know this. So I try and I don’t try and avoid those situations because sometimes they’re unavoidable, right? Like, I don’t not go to the movies. Do I enjoy movies better when I’m not in a full theater? 100%. I enjoy movies when I’m not in a full theater, but it doesn’t mean I can’t take in a movie in a full theater.
00:46:47:39 – 00:47:11:10
Agent Palmer
It just I prefer to sit on the aisle. It gives me that one little bit of control. Right. You know, so I don’t sit in the middle now, I’ll sit in the middle of an empty theater. But if I see they’re starting to, people like, I don’t know, like, if everybody’s theaters are like this, but I always go for, like, the little side section where there’s like three on the other on the outside of the aisle.
00:47:11:12 – 00:47:12:32
Agent Palmer
I always sit there.
00:47:12:37 – 00:47:14:06
Neil Cetrangolo
Right? Kind of like the wings. Yeah.
00:47:14:08 – 00:47:46:43
Agent Palmer
Because I know most people don’t want to sit on the wall and I’m. I’m good, like, you know, I’m, I’m not going to be I’m at most I’m one person away from the aisle. Good. I have a little bit of control. So if something happens, I’m. I can get out. But it’s just those little things that, like, we we think about and I say we because, like, the other thing is, the more open I’ve been about it, the more I’ve heard other people.
00:47:46:48 – 00:48:07:22
Agent Palmer
I mean, you walk around, I would guess most people have some kind of anxiety now. Mine manifested itself before the current social media was a huge thing. And like, I know all this stuff amps it up, but you know, I because I’m open to talk about it, or at least I’m not hiding it like, you know, oh my god.
00:48:07:22 – 00:48:43:06
Agent Palmer
Like it’s a, it’s a, it’s a secret buried I’ve, I’ve had genuinely comforting conversations with people who don’t necessarily understand what I’m going through, but are going through something on a much smaller level, and I can give them my tips and what I do, because, like, maybe it’ll help them and I’m not. I wouldn’t call myself an advocate, like I wouldn’t go that far, but I’m supportive for at any level.
00:48:43:11 – 00:49:00:58
Agent Palmer
I’ve found most people are that have that either know someone that has anxiety or have it themselves, people that are completely oblivious like it hasn’t touched their circle. It’s not that they don’t believe you, but there’s there’s no understanding.
00:49:01:02 – 00:49:25:41
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah. I mean, like I said, I was I was that person for a while, I, I thought I was helping I also noticed the difference, like you said it in giving it advice, I think people that have anxiety and sometimes with depression, things like that is as opposed to telling somebody what we think they should do is we say what we do, like, oh, when I’m feeling blah blah blah blah blah, I’ll do this.
00:49:25:41 – 00:49:46:20
Neil Cetrangolo
And sometimes it helps. Like, you know, I’ve gone to a bunch of classes and bought a bunch of books. I’d, you know, working on my breathing and mindfulness and this and that. Just a lot of times just so I go back to sleep, you know, and so it’s it’s interesting how your vocabulary changes when all of a sudden you’re like, oh, I have I have no idea what to work for you.
00:49:46:29 – 00:50:10:38
Neil Cetrangolo
This might never work for you, but I you know, I focus on this one point in the room and I start thinking of these two colors bouncing back and forth, which is actually something I do. And for some reason that takes up all the space in my mind because I’m looking at one thing. I’ll try to make these two things move in and out, and that works.
00:50:10:38 – 00:50:29:57
Neil Cetrangolo
And it’s also neat because then people go, oh, cool, I’ll try it. Because, you know, having anxiety, you would do anything to pull yourself out. I mean, if somebody told me like, oh, I sometimes like to find an octopus in a seafood, market and just rub it gently, I’d be like, I’m going to go buy an octopus right now.
00:50:30:01 – 00:50:32:25
Neil Cetrangolo
I’m going to go get one, and I’m going to rub an octopus.
00:50:32:27 – 00:50:54:30
Agent Palmer
I a first of all, you’re absolutely right. But I feel like it’s less altruistic than, like, being nice and not being like, this is what you should do. I think it’s because when we have those feelings, it’s so us and personal. I would never be able to tell anybody anything other than what I do. Like there is no world outside.
00:50:54:30 – 00:51:00:14
Agent Palmer
So like while it ends up being altruistic, it’s like, no, no, no, no, no, right.
00:51:00:19 – 00:51:25:01
Neil Cetrangolo
This is, this is, this is all I got. So, here you go. Yeah. No, that that makes sense. It is a well, I’m. I’m curious to know, for for you. When you realized it wasn’t going to go away, that this was going to be, part of you. What what was that realization like? And when did that how deep into it?
00:51:25:01 – 00:51:43:24
Neil Cetrangolo
Like, as I would imagine. Like the first, the first time at the park and then that that big one at, Kmart. Like, what was that? Were you knowing then, or did you know then or how long did it take where you’re like, oh crap, this is this is staying with me. This isn’t just some weird thing.
00:51:43:29 – 00:52:12:47
Agent Palmer
It was so after all of the doctor’s appointments where it was like, you’re perfectly healthy, which is the worst, first of all, like the worst thing anybody can tell you, like, I understand, like, it’s great to be perfectly healthy, but when you feel when you’ve had an anxiety attack for no reason, as irrational as we said it is, and the doctor, the doctor here with the degree on the wall says there’s nothing physically wrong with you.
00:52:12:49 – 00:52:15:05
Agent Palmer
You’re like, oh fuck.
00:52:15:09 – 00:52:35:33
Neil Cetrangolo
Like that’s that’s the one that’s harder for me than the you’re perfectly healthy at least has something to it. I, I it’s that the there’s nothing wrong with you. I’m like, there’s something wrong with me, even if it’s in my head, because I’m here telling you there’s something wrong with me. That means there’s something wrong with me.
00:52:35:38 – 00:52:58:59
Agent Palmer
I think it was just when I started to venture back out, and I saw that I was making some progress, but not a ton. And then I got to the point where I could be a functional person in society, despite. And I say despite, because I wasn’t living with it at the time it was. I’m doing all of this in spite of.
00:52:59:04 – 00:52:59:20
Neil Cetrangolo
00:52:59:29 – 00:53:35:13
Agent Palmer
And just the idea that no matter how long I went, there always seemed to be another one. And it would be like, oh, it’s been two weeks, I’ve been fine. And then just when and you don’t think about it, you go about your daily life. You know, one day fades into a week, fades into a month. But over the course of a year, it continued to happen irregularly and irrationally, to a point where I was like, you know, and after a couple years of that, it was just like, okay, this is I just have to be comfortable with this.
00:53:35:18 – 00:54:10:14
Agent Palmer
I can’t, you know, and at the, you know, was before like smartphones. So I immediately like at a certain point, like a year in, I basically put together my emergency contacts on my original like Motorola Razr, where you could, like, have speed dial contacts on each one for each number. And it was like it wasn’t mom, dad, you know, girlfriend it was, here are the four friends I know I’ll get one of guaranteed.
00:54:10:14 – 00:54:35:22
Agent Palmer
And those were the first four. And that was when it was still really bad and it was like, all right, I’m in the parking lot of a gas station. I’m. I’m freaking out. How’s your day going? And then we just talked for 15 minutes and I’d try and, like, take my mind off it and whatever, and I don’t know, like, I’d love to say, like, I kind of got over it.
00:54:35:27 – 00:54:38:22
Agent Palmer
I think I just kind of ended up getting used to it.
00:54:38:27 – 00:54:39:44
Neil Cetrangolo
That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:39:49 – 00:54:46:22
Agent Palmer
You know, if if the threat is that the monkeys on your back, you just kind of get used to the monkey being on your back.
00:54:46:27 – 00:54:46:45
Neil Cetrangolo
00:54:47:28 – 00:55:04:37
Agent Palmer
And that was I don’t know, it just it just kind of became the norm. You know, I didn’t have it, it became a big deal. And then I tried to get out in the world and it became my new normal. I guess.
00:55:04:42 – 00:55:24:50
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah. No that that makes sense. It, it was interesting for me because it, I was because of the concussion. So would have the whole thing started for me was that the first thing that happened is I was at home, I had the day off and I started smelling burnt plastic, which is usually right, the burnt toast, burnt plastic, having a stroke thing.
00:55:24:50 – 00:55:45:25
Neil Cetrangolo
So I didn’t know that was going on, but I, I was drinking coffee and I’m like, I wonder if the coffee machine like is melting in itself because I smell, you know, an a couple days ago and I’d, I’d ask them like, do you smell that? And she’s like, no. And I’m like, And then I was having a hard time gripping things and, like, things are just fall out of my hand and I’m like, what?
00:55:45:26 – 00:56:09:25
Neil Cetrangolo
What is going on? So that’s why I originally went to the doctor was like, something’s going on. And then really, like, had an MRI and then after the first MRI at that time, I unfortunately had a bunch in the past to for all the head injuries. But before I knew about the scarring on the brain, I started getting my anxiety.
00:56:09:30 – 00:56:29:44
Neil Cetrangolo
So it was this we really weird thing where there was physical things, olfactory things. There was all this stuff going on. And then on top of that, I started just stressing out and being super, you know, having this anxiety about these random things and then having all these tests and finding out, well, this is why it’s it’s happening.
00:56:29:49 – 00:56:50:55
Neil Cetrangolo
So it for me and why I wanted to know for you, it’s like I never had that oh moment that oh, this is just part of it. Because I was told. Oh yeah. Like we can try to help to change. How do you know the pathway that your neurons take around your brain to help with the scarring? But, no, this is this is it.
00:56:50:55 – 00:57:13:00
Neil Cetrangolo
You know, it’s almost like you do go to the doctor and they go, oh, something’s definitely wrong with you. You know, your arm is broken. You know, it was interesting to be, you know, sit there. And I was hoping for the. Oh, you’re you’re perfectly healthy. You know, I’m just thinking, okay, I’m just having a whatever. I’m going through something because I’m getting older or whatever, and to have them go like, oh no, you’re messed up.
00:57:13:02 – 00:57:34:20
Neil Cetrangolo
You know, I was like, I don’t what do you know? And they’re like, no, no, it’ll never be the same. You’re you’re messed up. It’s fine. You know? And I’m like, what is going on right now? You know, I, I, I wanted that glimmer of hope of just like, oh, you know, you’re working too much or or maybe you’re maybe you’re sad or maybe you’re, you know, there’s this maybe you’re, I don’t know, unhappy about something.
00:57:34:31 – 00:57:45:39
Neil Cetrangolo
No. It was like, no, no, you. Oh, my God, your brain is broken. Oh, we’ve seen this a lot of times. It’s going to get so much worse from here. I’m like, oh that’s lovely. Thanks. I like that a lot.
00:57:45:44 – 00:58:03:50
Agent Palmer
Are there do you have happy places. Where this is a safe space. Like you’re never going to like nothing bad is going to happen. Like you won’t have an attack or you’re less likely to have an attack either when you’re here in this place or doing this thing.
00:58:03:55 – 00:58:25:40
Neil Cetrangolo
Yes. For the anxiety. It doesn’t seem to happen when I’m really busy. Like if I’m really busy and my mind is occupied, I haven’t or I don’t recall having it where like all of a sudden the brakes get pumped and I’m like, oh my God, I’m freaking out about this thing. The physical stuff, this the weird smells and the grip thing know that there’s no getting away from that.
00:58:25:40 – 00:58:50:15
Neil Cetrangolo
It’s just part of the deal. But it it it’s interesting that yeah, the, the happy places for me are usually when I’m most stressed out and busy trying to take care of a problem so it can be like a financial thing. It could be I’m working on the cars. It could be, you know, sadly, like, you know, my dad had surgery on his back and it didn’t he wasn’t recovering well.
00:58:50:22 – 00:59:15:02
Neil Cetrangolo
And there was all this stress, like, is he going to be okay? Or if something happens to one of our dogs or something like that, then then it doesn’t seem to happen because my, my mind is racing so much around this other thing, but it’s it’s in the quiet times for me. It’s when I want to be relaxed and oh, everything’s, you know, I’m going to sleep or I’m just waking up or I’m driving or there isn’t a lot of, you know, noise in my brain.
00:59:15:02 – 00:59:25:23
Neil Cetrangolo
And then it just it will just latch on to something and that and then I’m done. I mean, I am, I’m done. I can’t, I can’t, I can’t do anything.
00:59:25:23 – 00:59:47:01
Agent Palmer
So I’m, I’m with you there like, because when I, I mean, people call me a workaholic and maybe I’ve kind of eased into it, because I didn’t, you know, when I first started having anxiety, I didn’t have the blog, I didn’t I mean, I started a business that I still have is like a side gig, and I didn’t even have that at the time.
00:59:47:06 – 01:00:13:21
Agent Palmer
Right. And then, I started the business and the business kind of became the blog. And there’s always something to write, there’s always something to do, there’s always something to research, whatever. And so the busier I am, the less my mind can wander almost. And if you put me in an awkward situation, there’s a very good chance. It doesn’t matter how busy I am, I’m still going to feel a little uneasy.
01:00:13:21 – 01:00:40:45
Agent Palmer
But right the the busier I can keep my brain, the better off I am. The truth of the matter is, this past year, Steph and I took a vacation and I’ll tell you what, the anxiety level was pretty high, but it was my first vacation in like a decade because I didn’t. I took like a I used to use my vacation days for Agent Palmer, like, and it sounds kind of like whatever.
01:00:40:45 – 01:00:57:05
Agent Palmer
But it was like, no, I’ll take Friday off and go see the Star Wars movie, because I’m not going to see it Thursday night, but I’ll see it Friday, and then I’ll write about it and then, you know, go into the weekend or I’ll take the Monday off and, you know, do a little extra research for this post I’m working on.
01:00:57:12 – 01:01:16:39
Agent Palmer
That’s how I used to use my vacation as it came. So I wasn’t taking like legit breaks, but I didn’t feel like I needed them either. You know, everybody gets around the holidays, right? Whether you get a week or two weeks, whatever. I would look at that and go, all right, time to get prepped for the next year.
01:01:16:39 – 01:01:36:59
Agent Palmer
And I’d write my blog schedule for the next year. And like, I’ve always been that way. So it’s the winding down that scares me the most. I’ve found it now where even reading isn’t enough of an exercise like I’ll be reading a book I enjoy and my mind will start going like, you know, you have to start on that project.
01:01:37:04 – 01:01:47:28
Agent Palmer
I’m trying to read. I’m trying to read a book here. Yeah. But the busier I am, the better off I seem to be.
01:01:47:33 – 01:02:08:13
Neil Cetrangolo
Now, I have noticed this for me, and I’m curious for you. So I will keep my mind occupied or be busy and this and that. But that first break, after a super busy time, it’ll come at me hard. Like it’s almost. I mean, I know it doesn’t work in the way that it builds up. There’s that, not the thing.
01:02:08:18 – 01:02:21:31
Neil Cetrangolo
And I don’t know if that’s because I felt quote unquote normal for so long that it just feels like it’s a bigger deal, or if it is a bigger deal, because I felt normal. So does that make any sense?
01:02:21:40 – 01:02:34:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, I think it’s just because I wouldn’t say I think you and I are both resigned to the fact that we have this, but you do. It doesn’t take long to get used to not having it.
01:02:34:26 – 01:02:34:45
Neil Cetrangolo
01:02:34:54 – 01:02:58:21
Agent Palmer
So like if you get a good month where you’re like super busy and you don’t feel any anxious at all, that one Sunday when you sit down and you and then it starts to creep back in. It’s just, it’s kind of like I like to think of it like running because I don’t run year round. So that first run in the fucking spring is always horrible.
01:02:58:26 – 01:03:09:28
Agent Palmer
Right. And basically I think that’s what it is. That first little hint at an attack is always worse after a period of not having it.
01:03:09:33 – 01:03:16:39
Neil Cetrangolo
Because it makes sense, because it’s it’s almost the reminder of, yeah, oh yeah. This is still sure, sure, sure, sure. That makes sense.
01:03:16:39 – 01:03:38:07
Agent Palmer
I think that’s it. Or at least that’s the way I would put it. Like, I mean, listen, I tried, I tried running, I mean, I was unemployed for a good portion of this past spring and summer, and I was like, I’m home. I have no reason not to run. This is going to be great. I’m going to be the healthiest boy I’ve ever been.
01:03:38:12 – 01:04:04:50
Agent Palmer
I mean, maybe physically. Yeah. But mentally, like no difference. I would love to be like oh that’s the key because it’s one of those weird things we talk about irrationality. I’m still looking for the cure all. Oh, if I get eight hours of sleep every night, I’m guaranteed not to have anxiety. Like no, I try like I really do, but, like, that’s that’s not going to happen.
01:04:04:54 – 01:04:23:51
Neil Cetrangolo
No. And I, I do think and I mean advice that has been given to me, you know, by doctors is, is for and again for, for my anxiety, it’s like just live and you’ll know when it doesn’t feel right, when it doesn’t feel right, back off and and put yourself in a good spot and that’s all you can do.
01:04:24:00 – 01:04:47:30
Neil Cetrangolo
And it’s funny because if you think about like any sort of limitation that’s, you know, if your arm hurts, it’s like, well, just use it. And when it hurts too much, stop using it and, you know, let it heal and we’ll go from there. But it’s it’s like I said, for me, it accepting it is has been the hardest thing, I think harder than actually having the anxiety.
01:04:47:35 – 01:05:16:50
Agent Palmer
I, I don’t know if I’ve even accepted it now because I just compartmentalized it and started working on something else, which is probably not that healthy. But at this point, I feel like I’ve rationalized that it’s a part of me now. But I really did just move on like, oh fuck. Well, okay, well, I can’t leave the house, so I all right, I’ll, I’ll read a book or I’ll, you know, do this, do that.
01:05:16:52 – 01:05:17:43
Agent Palmer
01:05:17:48 – 01:05:44:28
Neil Cetrangolo
I will say this too. One thing that I that helps me in that I, I do like a lot is that the people around me that know me and care about me don’t pretend I don’t have this thing going on. That, to me, means a lot. Like, if I’m not in a good headspace and somebody sees it, it actually makes me feel better when somebody says, oh, what’s going on with you?
01:05:44:28 – 01:06:12:06
Neil Cetrangolo
I can I can tell something’s up, that for some reason that helps more than the person that goes like, oh no, you really, I didn’t even know. And I’m like, that makes me feel so isolated and alone because I’m like, really? Because this is this terrible thing. And you can’t you don’t even, I don’t know why, you know, which is funny because my whole thing is I don’t want to be seen as a person who has this, but it feels so good to me when people are like, oh, we get it.
01:06:12:06 – 01:06:33:44
Neil Cetrangolo
I can see it. Yeah. It’s you’re, you know, I mean, as much as I miss who I was, there’s a little bit of comfort when people go like, oh yeah, you, yeah, you are different now. I don’t know why, but for me that actually helps in a way. Like I guess it’s that like, oh, it’s not just in my head, it’s not this weird thing that I’m, I’m not making it up.
01:06:33:44 – 01:06:52:07
Neil Cetrangolo
I’m not I’m not pretending not the people do. But I guess for me it’s like I can’t make sense of it. So it’s like since it is in my head and I can’t show somebody, like, I guess I could show the MRI, but I can’t show somebody that broken bone. It’s nice. There’s something about it that makes me feel a little bit more comfortable.
01:06:52:07 – 01:06:55:54
Neil Cetrangolo
And they’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool, I gotcha, I see that.
01:06:55:59 – 01:07:24:39
Agent Palmer
I’m starting to warm up to that idea. But there’s so little anybody else can do that. I this is the most unhealthy thing I think I’ve said all night. I feel like a burden by like, oh, yeah. Being like, oh no, I, I have an anxiety attack now. And while that is the most unhealthy thing I’ve said tonight, I’m starting to get to a point where, or I shouldn’t say that it’s not me.
01:07:24:45 – 01:07:32:56
Agent Palmer
Steph is starting to get to a point where I can’t hide it anymore, which is probably the healthiest thing that’s happened for the both of us.
01:07:33:01 – 01:07:36:19
Neil Cetrangolo
I was going to say it’s probably really, really good for her, too.
01:07:36:19 – 01:08:02:38
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But yeah, you know, I do still try and tough it out. We try and have a weekly date night, and if I’m not feeling it on a date night, I still try and go out. You know, like, I still try and do things because maybe it’ll get comfortable. Maybe this time it’ll be different. I mean, it’s been years now and it’s not, but like, I’m I’m still willing to try because that’s the safer thing, you know.
01:08:02:38 – 01:08:20:07
Agent Palmer
And and so I’ll, I’ll suggest like, okay, we’re not going to go to the restaurant that’s far away from the house. We’ll go to the one that’s closer, you know, like little thing. So if I do have a panic attack, the drive home is not an hour, you know. All right, fair enough. I only have to suffer a little bit after dinner, so maybe it won’t be as bad.
01:08:20:11 – 01:08:54:00
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah. No. And that’s good I do think in certain situations and with certain people that sometimes going through the difficult like you know we were saying earlier like don’t come out here, you know, and put yourself through all that when I can, you know, go there. But I, I think what was obviously with Steph and like for me and oddly some sometimes putting yourself through that even though it’s not the most fun looking back, I think it gives like for me it would give me that.
01:08:54:00 – 01:09:24:04
Neil Cetrangolo
Oh well, like at least that person can see that I’m trying and I’m willing to put myself in that situation for them. Not that they’d ever ask me to. Yeah, but that my willingness to do that shows that, I’m here, I’m present. I’m here with you. And I’ll try as as opposed to just not even putting ourselves in a situation that’s uncomfortable because we’re just so far removed from wanting to be uncomfortable.
01:09:24:09 – 01:09:54:51
Agent Palmer
So I talked a little bit about the road trip, which was the first time I met Steph in the flesh, and it was also pod tober fest. And Bill and I were the quote unquote producers. And I feel like now that we’ve talked this whole thing through, it was the work we didn’t get in the car and drive to Michigan with all 24 hours ready to go.
01:09:54:56 – 01:10:20:02
Agent Palmer
We were in the car putting it together, and then we got there and we got there a day early and spent the day before just prepping everything and getting everything ready. And then it happened and it was day one and it was day two. And like. But then massive, like the day we were supposed to leave. I couldn’t get to sleep that night because I just felt like.
01:10:20:08 – 01:10:43:08
Agent Palmer
And that that was the letdown. Right. We’re done. There’s nothing more to do. And it’s. Yeah. And then I suffered through like the the drive back was worse. It was so worse that I, we split it up. We couldn’t even do it in one go. And now that we’ve talked this out like it makes so much sense because I was just too busy.
01:10:43:13 – 01:10:56:46
Agent Palmer
Like, it was just I was just compartmentalizing it, which. Yeah. Again, also not healthy. Right. But it’s just what happened. So I feel like that’s what kind of made it a thing. And
01:10:56:51 – 01:11:20:21
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah. Then you get to that quiet point and it’s like all of a sudden it’s like, it’s like you almost needed like, oh, we got to put something together to work on the whole way back, you know, if I could just edit in the car for hours, it would be great. A.
01:11:20:26 – 01:11:47:01
Agent Palmer
Before I get any further, I want to reiterate and make sure everyone knows again that neither Neil nor I are medical professionals, nor are we trying to give out medical advice. We are talking about living with our anxiety, and we are explaining what works for us to pass and attack or get through the day. What preemptive measures we might take, or what reactive measures we might use to mitigate an attack or episode of high anxiety in any form.
01:11:47:06 – 01:12:20:12
Agent Palmer
None of this is medical advice. Again, please do not mistake it as such. This is what works for us now. This episode was a bit harder to edit and harder to listen back to on account of how honest I was, which was part of the reason Neil was perfection personified as a guest on this episode, because he not only understands he’s a friend who I can talk to about this, not just because he experienced anxiety as well, but because as you heard during this episode, he’s like extremely empathetic.
01:12:20:17 – 01:12:40:29
Agent Palmer
Now, it may seem like Neil and I don’t have equal time, but in truth, Neil’s been open and talking about his anxiety before on his own show, so he’s got it down to a more succinct story, whereas mine was more maybe overly detailed than it needed to be. But I also felt like I had to get it out.
01:12:40:34 – 01:13:04:06
Agent Palmer
Neil also brought some humor, acting as the sugar to help this serious topic of, you know, anxiety go down a little lighter. To me, this felt like the most selfish, therapeutic, and honest episode that I’ve ever done. And may ever do. And having a friend in Neil on not just as a guest, made it easier to open up and let it all come out.
01:13:04:06 – 01:13:29:28
Agent Palmer
And for that I can’t thank him enough. We discussed a little bit about talking to other people who understand, and in this case, understanding is just dealing with our own anxieties. We don’t have to have the same symptoms, issues or resolutions. We know the journey and we’ve walked the path, and that’s enough to create a common dialog and even in some cases, friendship.
01:13:29:33 – 01:13:51:34
Agent Palmer
If you’ve ever dealt with anxiety for yourself or someone you care about, know that you are not alone. If you’ve listened this far, I hope you already realized that fact. And if you want to share your stories, Neil and I are both easily accessible and open to discussion. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 13. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes.
01:13:51:34 – 01:14:17:59
Agent Palmer
And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet the podcast at The Palmer Files, myself at Agent Palmer, and reach this week’s guest, Neil at Angels Freak seven. You can hear him on the Dark Angels and Freaks podcast. Wherever you are listening to this right now, and you can even watch him over on YouTube at the Halos and Hidden Channel.
01:14:18:04 – 01:14:38:12
Agent Palmer
And of course, there’s also old episodes of The Reasons, our several podcast you can listen to as well. Wherever you get your podcast. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent Paul Macomb. And remember, all of these links will be available in the show notes. If you’re interested in sending email to the show, it’s the Palmer files at gmail.com.
01:14:38:12 – 01:14:56:26
Agent Palmer
Let me know what you’re thinking. And don’t forget, you can also hear more of me in the meantime on our liner notes. A musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and my other gig as co-host of the podcast digest with Dan Lizette.
01:14:56:31 – 01:15:02:01
Unknown
Need.
01:15:02:05 – 01:15:10:28
Unknown
You.
01:15:10:32 – 01:15:22:32
Unknown
Need.
01:15:22:37 – 01:15:33:45
Unknown
Me.
01:15:33:50 – 01:15:37:19
Agent Palmer
All right. Neil, do you have one final question for me?
01:15:37:24 – 01:16:01:50
Neil Cetrangolo
I do. If you had to get rid of one color so you and society would never see this color again, what color would that be? And I’m not going to go into, like, well, if you get rid of a primary color, then that gets rid of every, you know, it’s not it’s not that deep. It’s just that one, one color.
01:16:01:55 – 01:16:17:17
Agent Palmer
I want to say red. Just because on the off chance that it when it disappears so does like the phrasing of like I’m so mad I’m seeing red and maybe everybody just calms down.
01:16:17:19 – 01:16:29:58
Neil Cetrangolo
And you said that that’s the first thing that came to my head was the warrant song. I saw Red because I’m like, that would be gone as well as that, as that, you know, I thought of Red line and being so angry, you see Red so leery.
01:16:30:00 – 01:16:34:15
Agent Palmer
Maybe, maybe that would calm everybody down.
01:16:34:20 – 01:17:00:55
Neil Cetrangolo
That’s a good one I like that, I like that, that’s good. I, I was the for me just the one color and or lack of color. But again this has nothing to do. There’s no socio political racial tone to this. But I always thought it would be interesting to get rid of black because all of that stuff that we see that is black would now have to be an actual color tires, you know, all these things are just easier to have.
01:17:00:55 – 01:17:07:11
Neil Cetrangolo
I mean, the sky at night would be different, you know? I mean, all these things would just be eliminated.
01:17:07:20 – 01:17:08:24
Agent Palmer
Wow.
01:17:08:28 – 01:17:09:54
Neil Cetrangolo
Yeah.
01:17:09:58 – 01:17:22:26
Agent Palmer
I thought I mean, for a moment that flashed through my head, but I was like, I don’t know what I’m a I’m a big physical book reader. So I was like, I don’t know if I could read a novel in red ink. Like, I just don’t know if I could do.
01:17:22:26 – 01:17:32:06
Neil Cetrangolo
That bright orange. You’re like, I don’t know. Yeah, yeah.
01:17:32:11 – 01:17:38:51
Neil Cetrangolo
What is something I could say to you right now that would make you feel good?
01:17:38:55 – 01:17:56:57
Agent Palmer
I think I think just hello. Like. I mean, I know that that’s the I know that that’s the question in this moment, but I feel like just for me, any time anybody picks up the phone like, whatever the greeting is, because you took my call, like, that’s all I need.
01:17:57:01 – 01:18:01:26
Neil Cetrangolo
There you go. There you go. Well, let me say this. Hey, Palmer.
01:18:01:31 – 01:18:03:05
Agent Palmer
Thanks, Neil.
01:18:03:10 – 01:18:03:46
Neil Cetrangolo
There you go.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).