Episode 91 features Margo Donohue, the Brooklyn Fit Chick returns as a newly published author of Filmed in Brooklyn a book about film history and the history of film in Brooklyn.
We discuss the creation, process, and reception of her book. But we also talk about using the time you have wisely, reading and writing, humility, healthy egos, and much much more
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Filmed In Brooklyn by Margo Donohue
- A love letter to Brooklyn
- The Book Pitch
- Using the time available
- Photography
- Timing is Everything
- Writers Group
- Congratulate Yourself
- Media Maven Margo
- Reading and Writing
- Humility
- Healthy Egos
- The next thing
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Get your copy of Filmed In Brooklyn (Amazon)
Brooklyn Beauties Focus of Margo Donohue’s Love Letter Film Study
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:05 – 00:00:29:24
Agent Palmer
Previously on agent Palmer dot com. Entwined legacy celebrated in the day the music died. Doc Hollywood hatred aside, violent Ward plays out like a great film and Craig still fighting the good fight. While I’m adjusting to the word change from content creator to artist. This is The Palmer Files episode 91 with Margo Donohue. The Brooklyn Fit Chick returns as a newly published author of Filmed in Brooklyn, a book about film history and the history of film in Brooklyn.
00:00:29:29 – 00:01:14:00
Agent Palmer
We discuss the creation process and reception for her book, but we also talk about using the time you have wisely reading and writing, humility, healthy egos, and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show!
00:01:14:05 – 00:01:37:55
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Sterhsic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 91st episode is returning guest, a newly published author, Margo, the Brooklyn fit Chick Donohue. Margo’s first appearance back in episode four of this podcast is worth revisiting if you haven’t heard it before, but she’s here this time, plugging filmed in Brooklyn, a book that she was almost comically overqualified to write.
00:01:38:00 – 00:02:06:53
Agent Palmer
We discuss her relationship with Brooklyn, and as for movies, she’s already discussed many of those on her various podcasts. She is, like me, an artist, someone who can absorb and share stories because it’s the right thing to do. We discuss those stories and those processes. We also discuss researching, filmed in Brooklyn, taking photographs. The dream of publishing a book, reading and writing processes, processes, marketing, healthy egos, and much, much more.
00:02:07:07 – 00:02:27:21
Agent Palmer
Before we get going, remember that if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or afterwards you can find all contact information for Margo and myself in the show notes. You can find more information about Margo, her book, and many podcasts at her website. Brooklyn Fat Chicks and filmed in Brooklyn. Her debut published work can be found at many large retailers and online as well.
00:02:27:34 – 00:02:46:17
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com, including my review of Filmed in Brooklyn. And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer Files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:46:21 – 00:03:01:26
Agent Palmer
Margo, you wrote a love letter to Brooklyn. Can I can I be the first to say that it could only come from someone who wasn’t born there?
00:03:01:31 – 00:03:02:47
Margo Donohue
I think you’re right.
00:03:02:52 – 00:03:25:47
Agent Palmer
It’s because I, I, I live less than a quarter mile from where I was born. I haven’t been here my whole life. I have moved around. It just so happened that when it came time to buy a house, I bought one in the town I was born in. But I don’t think. And maybe it’s like the bias of where you’re born.
00:03:25:50 – 00:03:42:52
Agent Palmer
I don’t think I could have written the book. You did? About my town. I think you need that outsider perspective. No matter how. No matter how long you’ve lived there.
00:03:42:56 – 00:03:43:26
Margo Donohue
Right, right.
00:03:43:29 – 00:03:59:03
Agent Palmer
You still know a time where you didn’t. And I think that that’s important. But it. But your love of Brooklyn shines through.
00:03:59:07 – 00:04:01:53
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s kind of amazing to me.
00:04:01:58 – 00:04:07:19
Margo Donohue
Well. Thank you. That was. That was the whole point. I’m glad you you felt that way when you read it.
00:04:07:24 – 00:04:19:49
Agent Palmer
Well, and, you know, It’s funny because it felt like there were many opportunities for you to just make it a New York book.
00:04:19:54 – 00:04:20:53
Margo Donohue
00:04:20:58 – 00:04:30:27
Agent Palmer
And you didn’t and you didn’t like just you were like, I’m going to stick to Brooklyn. I’m going to stick to what I know. I’m not going to go into the other boroughs.
00:04:30:32 – 00:04:53:17
Margo Donohue
Well that’s what my publisher wanted to. So it was I approached them to write a book about Park Slope, which is where I live in Brooklyn. I’ve been here since 1995. I have a rent stabilized apartment, so I’m kind of in that point in my life. Like, I’m going to kind of burrow here for a while, if you’ll pardon the pun.
00:04:53:19 – 00:04:54:38
Agent Palmer
Sure.
00:04:54:43 – 00:05:12:59
Margo Donohue
And my friend Margo, who is my co-host, her book versus movie, we’re both named Margo. Yes. She had written a book about La Colonia, which is in Oxnard, California, which is where her people are from, her family. And she it’s her publisher’s history press. And she said you should pitch them about your neighborhood because you love it so much.
00:05:13:04 – 00:05:29:38
Margo Donohue
Like. All right. So I pitched them and they looked all over my social media and everything and said, we’d actually like you to do a book about film locations in Brooklyn. We’ve been doing that lately. We’re doing a series of them where I think we feel like you would get it the material. And I said, would you be interested?
00:05:29:40 – 00:05:53:23
Margo Donohue
I’m like, hell yeah. And a couple of months later, Covid hits. So I was a teacher at the Y. You’re the Y closes. You know, everybody shuts down. So I have all this time to watch movies, and I had an idea of what I wanted the book to look like and feel like, because I’d read the other ones, but it became a whole new ballgame.
00:05:53:27 – 00:06:12:43
Margo Donohue
I just was like, I’m just going to watch as many movies as I can. I’m going to investigate. I’m going to do everything I can to find out how many movies were actually made here, and try to watch them all. I couldn’t finish them all, baby mama. I have no idea how it ends and I don’t care.
00:06:12:47 – 00:06:30:47
Margo Donohue
Or kazam. But I went to as many spots as I could that I found, and I just did so much digging. Sometimes, like the New York Times in the 80s, when they were on set for a movie, like, tried to figure out where they were, there’s a couple links I couldn’t find, but I found over 250 movies.
00:06:30:52 – 00:06:50:14
Agent Palmer
So there’s a few photography pieces from you in, in in the book. Or did you of the ones you found, are there like that? Many more, because there aren’t 250 pictures in the in the book. Did you take pictures of most of those things that you found?
00:06:50:19 – 00:07:08:45
Margo Donohue
I did actually, I was because that was just also a part of like social media. You know, when I was just out and taking photos, I’d be like, hey, I’m doing a book about movies, and this is where they shot. This is where Christopher, from The Sopranos. He played Spider in Goodfellas. This is the place where he was shot.
00:07:08:50 – 00:07:25:20
Margo Donohue
It doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t need a page in the book. You don’t need to see the image. It’s a nail salon now, but it’s just kind of fun and interesting when I was doing it at the time. But, you know, two things that I found that were very challenging was one, getting images, licensing images for movie studios.
00:07:25:21 – 00:07:53:21
Margo Donohue
They all wanted a lot of money and I was I really stupidly thought like, oh, it’s PR they’ll just no they didn’t. And then secondly, unfortunately, my brother, who was going to be my photographer passed away during Covid. So then I had to I, I picked up my habit from high school, and I used to be on the newspaper and I used to take photos, and I just bought a new camera and started taking my own images.
00:07:53:22 – 00:08:23:33
Margo Donohue
So those were the two things that, that sometimes caused the challenge, but also, like, made it more personal. I also really worked hard. Netflix was great and giving me images. By the way, Netflix PR department gave me wonderful images that I use in the book, and a few of them are on the cover. But yeah, I found this love of it, and promoting it as I was going was like, you know, like I said, we’re all in college.
00:08:23:33 – 00:08:32:09
Margo Donohue
We’re we’re stuck home, you know? And it was it was really, really amazing to be able to have something fun in the middle of, you know, really bad time sometimes.
00:08:32:11 – 00:09:04:23
Agent Palmer
Well, I, I think that, regardless of, political affiliation or thoughts or weird conspiracy theories, we were all inside for the most part. And my hat goes off to you for being able to look back and go like I took. I used that time wisely. I, I, I, I created a book, because there were, you know, there were a lot of people that treated it like a vacation.
00:09:04:27 – 00:09:33:08
Agent Palmer
There were a lot of people that will never remember what they did during those two weeks, two months, two years. However, you look back on it and you get to go, here’s this tangible book that I created. This was something good that came with it. And I, I think that that, you know, obviously you kept podcasting during that and I, I kept podcasting in blogging during like, I so I kind of understand the creation nature.
00:09:33:08 – 00:09:39:00
Agent Palmer
But this is something wholly unique that was like, I don’t know, the universe kind of lined up.
00:09:39:04 – 00:09:58:55
Margo Donohue
And in a strange way, it certainly did. I couldn’t have written this ten years ago, 20 years ago, maybe even five years ago. I just it there’s something about yes, there’s the Covid times, but there’s also just who I am as a person and where I am in my life and how I look at things. You know, the way I looked at movies when I was 20, 25, 30.
00:09:59:06 – 00:10:01:17
Margo Donohue
It’s not the way I look at it now.
00:10:01:22 – 00:10:06:48
Agent Palmer
Well, I let me ask this from a, a location standpoint.
00:10:06:53 – 00:10:07:40
Margo Donohue
00:10:07:45 – 00:10:17:04
Agent Palmer
Could you have written this book five, ten, 15, 20 years ago as far as being in love with Brooklyn or is that take a while as well?
00:10:17:12 – 00:10:36:11
Margo Donohue
I fell in love with Brooklyn right away. I was I was a huge fan as soon as I got here. I came and it was funny because this was considered the cheaper place to live versus what we call the city, Manhattan. You know, the Upper East Side, where a lot of people go when they graduate college or they were in these little railroad apartments in Hell’s Kitchen or in Chelsea.
00:10:36:15 – 00:11:03:57
Margo Donohue
I was like, here. I’m like, wow, we have actual rooms and a regular sized bathroom and kitchen that were near the park. This is perfect. How am my in New York City? And it’s like, this is one of the most expensive places, but the average price for a home is over $1 million here. It’s just become this. Yeah, I but I think it’s part of it was just being home like everybody else and just having to dig for things.
00:11:03:57 – 00:11:22:43
Margo Donohue
And you know, five years ago I had like 3 or 4 jobs. I could never have taken the time to do this the proper way. The fact that we were home and really, really made me focus and it made my writing better, and it made my concentration better. Everything. You know, it worked for me. Look, I had some losses during it, too.
00:11:22:43 – 00:11:43:24
Margo Donohue
And I know a lot of people who’ve lost so many people. And, and it’s terrible and it’s, you know, you we’re not going to forget this time. But I can say to you, yeah, I did use it in the best way I could, in most advantageous way I could for my sanity, and also just for my creative spirit.
00:11:43:29 – 00:12:01:26
Agent Palmer
Let’s talk about the creative spirit for a moment, because you are someone who creates content on a regular basis. What was it until this opportunity presented itself? Was becoming a published author ever? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. So that was in the cards.
00:12:01:28 – 00:12:22:14
Margo Donohue
It was in the cards I started when I was ten. I would write my own books. I was a massive reader. I was that nerdy kid that always had her nose in a book kind of person. When I came to New York, I pitched books several times. I’ve had an agent a few times. It’s very hard to sell a book if there’s a lot of people who want to sell them.
00:12:22:19 – 00:12:30:16
Margo Donohue
I also was somebody who had like, I have a lot of ideas. They would say, like, this could be a magazine article, but this isn’t a book. And I and I was like, you, I get it. You’re right.
00:12:30:26 – 00:12:49:37
Agent Palmer
I, I just want I just want to use. I need, I need you on speed dial because like the and I’ve talked about this before, but it’s a misconception that keeps coming up, which is like, oh, you’re a blogger. What, are you going to write a book? It’s like, it’s not. No. Like I first of all, I’m happy with the content I’m creating.
00:12:49:43 – 00:13:11:37
Agent Palmer
So let’s not ignore that fact. But the idea that like, oh, you must want to do something more is like, no, I, I’m not belittling myself by blogging. This isn’t like slumming it. This is the content I want to create. But the idea that it’s not easy to sell a book, I feel like I need to just here talk to Margo, right?
00:13:11:37 – 00:13:11:55
Agent Palmer
Like.
00:13:12:01 – 00:13:12:25
Margo Donohue
Right.
00:13:12:29 – 00:13:28:52
Agent Palmer
Ignoring the fact that all you know about me is I’m a blogger and you didn’t ask what I actually write about. So just like it took to make that jump, which is a jump I get all the time, and I don’t write, I don’t understand it. But I also know that, like.
00:13:28:57 – 00:13:48:08
Agent Palmer
It’s hard to finish a manuscript, ignoring the editing process and the actual publishing process from start to finish. A book of 80 pages to 800 pages, no matter what, is really hard to do.
00:13:48:13 – 00:14:18:16
Margo Donohue
It’s the most challenging thing I’ve ever done, it is for sure. And it was a labor of love and I had. But for me, a lot of it, I joined a writer’s group, and that’s what really kind of kicked me in gear. And I’m in a fantastic group where of women who write scripts and poetry and nonfiction and fiction and song lyrics, and they do everything, and they were the ones that really helped me, you know, get that feedback that you need for, you know, to finish, to get the finished product going.
00:14:18:16 – 00:14:38:54
Margo Donohue
But the rest of it was just, you know, keeping at it. And there were times I got tired of it. There were times that I was like, God, if I have to read about Coney Island one more second, I’m going to scream. But then on the other hand, I get it. But once I finished and I it was so amazing, my friends threw a party for me in Brooklyn and it was so great.
00:14:38:59 – 00:14:58:04
Margo Donohue
First time, you know, I was out at a long, long time. And one of the people there did a trivia game on based on my book, and he said, I am on the creative. I work in films, but I’m on the business side. And he says, I want you to take a second and pat yourself on the back for finishing a book, because it’s one of the toughest things.
00:14:58:17 – 00:15:15:29
Margo Donohue
It’s creating anything and finishing it is always challenging. There’s, oh, there’s always going to be things that block you, that get in your way. And he says, the fact that you did it, you know, you really need to just take their time and really appreciate that. And I and I do. My name’s on the side. You know, it’s awesome.
00:15:15:33 – 00:15:45:59
Agent Palmer
So I want to ask you about your writer’s group for a moment, because a lot of the writer’s groups I’m aware of are not like the one you just described. They are. This is my poetry group. This is my author group. How important for you? Obviously, you could only speak to your experience, but I’m asking about it. How important is it for you to know that the feedback you’re getting is not just from other people who want to write books, it is from people who have an experience in other forms of writing.
00:15:46:00 – 00:15:49:56
Agent Palmer
Was that variety helpful?
00:15:50:01 – 00:16:11:17
Margo Donohue
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, I would give them all a chapter of the book and they all had their own ideas, you know, what was missing from it or what worked for them, what didn’t work for them. I want this book, anybody, to pick it up and read it, to feel comfortable, to feel like I’m offering great suggestions. I’m offering history.
00:16:11:17 – 00:16:28:17
Margo Donohue
I’m offering so much for them. And I wanted to make it, you know, so that it was historically accurate and that it looked great. But also, I just wanted it to be fun. I want you to pick up the book and just like, oh, wait a second, I’m going to be in Windsor Terrace. And this was filmed there and that’s filmed there.
00:16:28:30 – 00:16:30:58
Margo Donohue
I’m going to look them up, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:16:31:02 – 00:16:56:17
Agent Palmer
Where does the travel part of this book come in? Like where in the West? Because. Because I read this book as someone who had a background in travel marketing for a while, and I’m reading this book going like, this is a pretty good travel book. Like, yes, ignoring the movie part, I think almost every chapter where you’re talking about a neighborhood is like, stop here for a coffee, stop here for a hot dog.
00:16:56:17 – 00:17:09:54
Agent Palmer
Like you’ve included all of a stop here for a photo, sit down and enjoy this park like, was, was that part of the initial thing, or did it develop over like as you were taking the photos or something?
00:17:09:58 – 00:17:34:55
Margo Donohue
It developed over the time? I mean, at some places, yeah, I because I would, I would spend a Saturday and I would walk to where the Sophie’s Choice house is. And when I found it and I took pictures like, oh my God, these homes are beautiful. Like, this is the quality you would get in the Hamptons. And it’s right here, like this huge porches and it’s that it’s gorgeous.
00:17:35:00 – 00:18:04:26
Margo Donohue
I Windsor Terrace I bring up because there’s Farrell’s, which is this beer joint that’s been there since through 33. There’s also a place called Dog Day Afternoon, which is filmed across the street from where they filmed Dog Day Afternoon, and they have the best hot dogs. So it became that was a part of it. My one of my favorite days was the day after July 4th, like a year and a half ago when I got a Lyft driver and I had a few addresses and I said, we’re going to go out to the Clemenza house for The Godfather.
00:18:04:40 – 00:18:23:24
Margo Donohue
And he was from Argentina, and he loved The Godfather. And we talked about The Godfather the whole way there. And then he’s like, I’m just going to take you on for the afternoon. Where else do you want to go? And so I just went looking up addresses and we went to where they had coming to America. We went to where they filmed Ghost, which I didn’t know was filmed partly in Brooklyn.
00:18:23:29 – 00:18:42:10
Margo Donohue
And he would call us family and be like, this is the home with Whoopi Goldberg. And I realized, like, people like that shit. They really like knowing that stuff. It just adds to the area. It adds to the adventure. And so many people visit Brooklyn. It just seemed to make sense to me.
00:18:42:22 – 00:18:54:58
Agent Palmer
So that’s part of the the process of creating the book. The book’s been out for a bit now, right? What has the response been for you?
00:18:55:03 – 00:19:17:42
Margo Donohue
It’s been great. I was really I’ll tell you, I was surprised that the big chains took my book. But like, the littler bookstores didn’t in my neighborhood. And a part of me was like, did I ask too often? Was I too pushy? I mean, like the delicate balance that you have to have when you’re marketing something, do you push but not too much?
00:19:17:42 – 00:19:39:50
Margo Donohue
Or where is it going to fit? Because to me, I got very frustrated. I actually had an event. It was at somebody’s home and all of the it was a presentation and the whole presentation just kind of went kablooey like the internet went out. The machine wasn’t working well. It was really awful. And I had bought this box of books to sell there because they told me, oh yeah, we’re going to have like 80 people.
00:19:39:55 – 00:19:56:38
Margo Donohue
And we did, but two of them bought a book because it was so, so I got so frustrated because my local bookstore would pick up my books, for whatever reason, that I went on Facebook into the Park Slope group and said, hey, I got a book. You want to buy it for me? I’ll sign it and I’ll deliver to you in person 30 bucks.
00:19:56:38 – 00:20:17:32
Margo Donohue
You know, or whatever it was 20, 29. And like, people call me messages like, I need four of them. I need five of them. This is the perfect Christmas gift. They were so delighted just to support. And I would 1 or 2, I’d support an artist, of course, a local author. Absolutely. But to be also like this was a good gift and it feels personal.
00:20:17:37 – 00:20:21:31
Margo Donohue
It worked out. So I sold enough books. I could take myself on vacation.
00:20:21:36 – 00:20:49:46
Agent Palmer
Oh, nice. Yeah. And and, I don’t I, I so I’m going to set this question up by saying I helped my friend make a movie and this is a friend that and, you know, we talked about it on the podcast a couple episodes ago, but the idea is we always and forever are always doing these ongoing projects like my blog or his streaming or his art or something.
00:20:49:46 – 00:21:20:54
Agent Palmer
Right. And so we finished the movie, this big one off project, and I went, what’s next? Because there’s that’s who we are. Like, there’s always what’s next? And that’s the way my mind works, because I don’t just. Do a podcast and then stop. I don’t just do a blog and then stop. It’s ongoing. I don’t, you know, I think to me, the scariest part would be like Jason and this like, what I don’t want.
00:21:20:56 – 00:21:50:44
Agent Palmer
No, like, I don’t want to stop. But I understand that there are one off projects and as inopportune as that may have been, you’ve just finished a movie that took you a couple of years. What’s next? I get that like, but still I all of that as a preface to say like is is there another one like are you are you does this give you more or less incentive to, get back out there and start pitching more books?
00:21:50:49 – 00:22:09:49
Margo Donohue
It gives me more incentive having a book. It makes it so much easier to pitch another book. It’s it’s it makes it easier to find an agent and makes it easier. Also, it just, just being in my the writer’s group that I’m in, like, they do so much different kinds of writing that we’ll show up sometimes and like we’ll say, I’ve got five ideas.
00:22:09:49 – 00:22:24:24
Margo Donohue
Let me know what you think of them. You know, sometimes that’s what we bring to the table. And I had several ideas short term and then longer term that I want to get in there. And part of that is that I want to set one of my books. I want to set in is in is in Coney Island, of all places that I just mentioned before.
00:22:24:29 – 00:22:44:48
Margo Donohue
But, early 20th century Coney Island. But that’s going to be a longer project. And I always like I have my podcast to keep me busy. I have my work to keep me busy, but this was the I loved having this. This is like the the the best moments of my life is having this book. But yeah, I want to make more.
00:22:44:53 – 00:23:00:49
Margo Donohue
Okay. I just don’t know. But people are like, well, what’s the next one? And I want to be able to say like, I gotta pitch an agent. I gotta come up with a proposal. I gotta figure out. I know I would love to write the book of Saturday Night Fever. I would love to write that book. Like, would it be an oral history or whatever?
00:23:00:53 – 00:23:07:33
Margo Donohue
Like, I’d really love to put that together. Is there an audience? Can I get a publisher? And I get these people participate, can I?
00:23:07:33 – 00:23:26:38
Agent Palmer
Well that so so the the secondary questions you asked are a lot harder and you know, yes, you’ll get people to participate, but who is the question. But like I read all right, all right, all right. The the oral history of Dazed and Confused.
00:23:26:43 – 00:23:27:12
Margo Donohue
Yeah.
00:23:27:12 – 00:23:51:22
Agent Palmer
And despite the fact that there are some big names from that movie missing from that book, you don’t need them. Like there’s enough of the rest of the cast, that kind of tell the story that you’re looking for if you’re a fan, and I. I would have to believe Saturday Night Fever has a larger audience. The Dazed and Confused.
00:23:51:27 – 00:23:52:30
Margo Donohue
I would think so.
00:23:52:44 – 00:24:17:03
Agent Palmer
It’s just just a hunch. Like, I like that movie and people are like, why do you why like, I don’t I don’t know. Linklater gets me, all right, like, I’m sorry. I’m I’m that guy. And there’s oh, there’s enough of me that the book was greenlit. Like, I don’t know. So I think that, you know, that that’s an option.
00:24:17:17 – 00:24:44:24
Agent Palmer
I would also say, like, do you do you want to stay in nonfiction like I had, Brian J. Jones was on here, and he’s a biographer, and he basically has at, you know, at the moment has published books about creators and people talk about he talks about the fact that, like, I have my shelf, like I wrote about George Lucas, I wrote about Jim Henson, I wrote about doctor suits like these.
00:24:44:24 – 00:25:04:08
Agent Palmer
I have a shelf. And I think in his next project, I believe he’s kind of breaking away from his shelf. I don’t, I don’t remember, but I think so, but but like, do you want to break or do you, do you want a shelf, I guess, or do you want it to be like, oh no, the the books.
00:25:04:08 – 00:25:09:21
Agent Palmer
But with my name on this binder all over this, they’re not together.
00:25:09:26 – 00:25:25:28
Margo Donohue
I that’s interesting to say that I think there’s a couple of movie books I’d like to write that are nonfiction, for sure. I have a couple of nonfiction ideas that I want to do with that. But there’s also there’s fiction work I want to do, and it’s historical fiction that I want to do. So that would be on a different shelf.
00:25:25:30 – 00:25:42:53
Margo Donohue
Yeah. It probably be in a Brooklyn shelf, though. I mean, if you’re going to have a Brooklyn section, it would be there. But that’s there. But also I have ideas for podcasts, and I have the podcast I want to do for me in my own way. And then I want to pitch some ideas for like Wondery or somebody like that.
00:25:42:58 – 00:25:53:03
Margo Donohue
And it’s that’s a whole next level of, you know, like writing scripts and budgeting things and that kind of stuff.
00:25:53:08 – 00:25:56:22
Agent Palmer
So you just, you just want to be a media maven.
00:25:56:22 – 00:26:15:20
Margo Donohue
I guess. Yeah, that’s in my bio. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I yeah. Well, people say, do you want to live in a other time? Like, no, this one, you’ve got the internet, I got Wi-Fi. Women are treated better than any other time. Except for abortion, of course. But, I mean, like, why would I go back 100 years?
00:26:15:20 – 00:26:39:00
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s fair, I, I, I can’t disagree with any of that except to say that, like, I’ve had the conversation about shutting off the internet before because I feel like it always comes up. I don’t I don’t know if I bring it out in people and they’re like, would you shut off the internet? Like, I don’t know what it is about me that that comes up all the time, but I’ve established the fact that nothing changes for me.
00:26:39:04 – 00:27:07:03
Agent Palmer
Like nothing changes for me. My blog goes to newspapers, which make a resilient comeback if the internet goes away and my podcast goes to terrestrial radio, which again makes a brilliant comeback if the internet goes away. Like I get to keep doing what I’m doing. And as a reader, the content I consume doesn’t really change either.
00:27:07:07 – 00:27:29:22
Agent Palmer
So, I mean, for I get that, but I wouldn’t want to go back either because I enjoy. I’m, it’s not a secret now, although I don’t know when it will come out, but I am experiencing Star Trek from the very beginning. As someone who doesn’t know it.
00:27:29:27 – 00:27:30:59
Margo Donohue
Interesting.
00:27:31:04 – 00:27:45:24
Agent Palmer
I mean, I know it, I know the cultural things, but I had friends pick on me for like, how come you know this? I was like, I don’t I it’s in the ether. It’s like people that don’t watch Star Wars but know, do or do not like their art. They live long and prosper is in the zeitgeist.
00:27:45:24 – 00:27:59:56
Agent Palmer
You don’t need to watch Star Trek to understand it. Right. And so I was like, you know what? Let’s let me do it. I’m going to do it. So I’m, I, I’m going to, you know, obviously there’s a lot of it, but like, I started from the beginning.
00:28:00:01 – 00:28:01:33
Margo Donohue
Start with the TV series. Yeah.
00:28:01:33 – 00:28:22:25
Agent Palmer
I mean, I’m going to do all I’m going to do the movies too, but like, I, I you start used to for me, I don’t know if it’s me personally or like me the geek and lots of geeks. I don’t know what it is, but I start at the beginning, like there are plenty of ways to do other things and to read things out of order.
00:28:22:25 – 00:28:40:04
Agent Palmer
And but I like to start at the beginning, so, yeah, it’s it’s the original series and then it’s going to be the animated series and then it’s going to be movies one through five, and then it’s going to be next gen. And look, it’s going to take me years to get through all this, and I’ll document it on the blog at some point.
00:28:40:04 – 00:29:14:00
Agent Palmer
But I that’s something I couldn’t do if the internet goes away, although I could, I guess, I don’t know, I, I don’t know, I, I, I’ve been keeping my distance from the internet while I need the internet to stream Star Trek. I, I kind of I’ve, I’ve avoided my, my my social presence went down. I know people have issues with Musk and Zuckerberg and all of those guys.
00:29:14:05 – 00:29:37:24
Agent Palmer
But I stopped long before that. I kind of slowed down. I don’t like this anymore. And I put it, I put it down, and now I text a lot more than I used to, and I consume a lot more media instead of just endlessly scrolling. So I’m also that guy that’s like, yeah, my life is on the internet, but I hate it.
00:29:37:29 – 00:29:55:42
Margo Donohue
See, I don’t hate it. I, I okay, yeah. It’s just it’s yeah, I find it very convenient. It was essential for me for for research, for doing all the things I had to do to make sure the book was accurate. It was everything. And I also just, you know, when is it a great time to be a woman?
00:29:55:46 – 00:30:04:57
Margo Donohue
Yeah, that’s that’s what I have to, like, tell people like, oh, 100 years ago or even like 50 years ago. No. Yeah.
00:30:05:02 – 00:30:34:23
Agent Palmer
No, I, I, I can’t disagree with you. And I’m, I’m, that it’s the interesting thing about watching Star Trek, which was created in 67, 68, 69, like when you think about what was going on in 67, 68 and 69, like, it’s really hard to watch that show without thinking about what was going on. Okay.
00:30:34:27 – 00:30:51:59
Margo Donohue
Yeah, it’s funny you mention that because, I also co-host a show called Talking Out where we talk out about movies. Sonia and I, and we just did Star Trek two Wrath of Khan, and I could only talk about it. You know, I know there’s Trekkies that can talk about every single scene and every single Easter egg that’s in there.
00:30:51:59 – 00:31:07:58
Margo Donohue
And so I was like, I could barely keep up with this plot. I mean, for me, I need to talk more about just overall what Star Trek is to the pop culture and to pop culture, but also just to the culture that we all live in and what when they created and what it was like then. What was it like in the late 70s?
00:31:07:58 – 00:31:25:25
Margo Donohue
What’s it like in the 80s and 90s? I mean, Star Trek is a big and it’s a part of all that. And I that’s, I really like I love the ethos of Star Trek that live long and prosper, but it’s also just kindness and compassion. Like you’ll find out.
00:31:25:30 – 00:31:50:35
Agent Palmer
Well, what I’ll say is the as far as the original series goes, and it’ll come up in conversation just because I’m consuming so much of it. It’ll come up on this podcast probably time and time again for a while. I’m at as, as of right now, I’m, I’m almost done with the original series, and. It is so hopeful.
00:31:50:40 – 00:32:17:13
Agent Palmer
Like, it reminds the writers room for Star Trek. Reminds me of like, NASA, where these guys were so focused on putting a man on the moon that they were still in 1950s fashion in 1970, when the moon stuff kind of when the moon shots stop and they went back to see what the real world was, because the whole world had passed them by.
00:32:17:21 – 00:32:44:52
Agent Palmer
They were driving their same cars and dressing their same way for, you know, just this one thing. And that’s what it feels like, like watching Trek, because it’s so hopeful, like it’s it’s, you know, I joke that, like, in 68, the Kennedy dying every other day, but like, there’s a lot of shit going on at 68 for a show to be that hopeful is so out of place.
00:32:44:57 – 00:33:12:34
Agent Palmer
Especially considering all the other stuff I’ve consumed from the 60s and early 70s that, let’s be real, not hopeful. Like, yeah, and I wonder what’s our media going to be like in 60 years? You know, like art, we we got some stuff going on. Like, is it going to be hopeful? I don’t think so. I don’t I don’t think I’ve watched anything recent that’s been hopeful.
00:33:12:38 – 00:33:17:55
Margo Donohue
Yeah, that’s a good question. I can’t think of anything hopeful. I don’t know.
00:33:18:00 – 00:33:28:03
Agent Palmer
I mean, there’s always lessons, right? There’s always lessons. But I think that’s like when you are. Are you still reading?
00:33:28:07 – 00:33:28:48
Margo Donohue
Of course.
00:33:28:48 – 00:33:31:39
Agent Palmer
Are you reading current or.
00:33:31:44 – 00:33:32:50
Margo Donohue
Like, I read everything.
00:33:32:50 – 00:33:58:10
Agent Palmer
Okay. Because I’ve. It’s only in the last couple of years that I’ve read. And your book included books that have been published within the last 12 months. Otherwise, most of my books are published before Y2K. Like that’s or 1980 for that matter. Right. Like I, I’ve been reading a lot of older things. But newer stuff, it’s it’s not that I don’t like it.
00:33:58:10 – 00:34:18:53
Agent Palmer
I’ve liked most of all of the, I don’t know, current things I’ve read, but I just find that there’s a lot more to learn from the older stuff. Yeah. D do you think your reading has an impact on your writing?
00:34:18:58 – 00:34:36:45
Margo Donohue
Absolutely. And they say that if you want to write, you have to be able to read, and you have to read often because you need to take in different styles. You need to take in information, and you need to what feel what it’s like to be a reader. Because what you want is to have readers by your work.
00:34:36:49 – 00:34:52:39
Margo Donohue
Oh, what works? What’s popular or what you know? What do you find to be good? Storytelling? What is something that you want to emulate in your own way? Of course. But I have always been a reader. It’s not tough for me. I’ve always been a reader like.
00:34:52:39 – 00:34:54:17
Agent Palmer
And you read everything?
00:34:54:21 – 00:34:56:17
Margo Donohue
Everything.
00:34:56:22 – 00:35:02:02
Agent Palmer
Do you challenge yourself? Like, are there times when you’re like, you read a book that you wouldn’t normally read?
00:35:02:07 – 00:35:31:31
Margo Donohue
Well, yeah, well, that’s for the show. Book versus movie. We’re constantly challenging ourselves. I would never have read sci fi as much as I have in the last few years because of the show, but then it turns out I love sci fi. There’s lots of things. Yeah, I mean, that’s been so yeah, I do challenge myself. I don’t have the time or the wherewithal to go through some of the classics that are like 800 pages or so I that’s that ship has sailed.
00:35:31:31 – 00:35:43:40
Margo Donohue
I mean, maybe when I’m older I’ll pick up Dubliners or something like that, but I, you know, I’m fine without it. I, I read so much as it is, I.
00:35:43:45 – 00:36:05:56
Agent Palmer
I, I’m going to be reading some of that old stuff because I the challenge I’ve been on for the last couple of years is I’m going to read all the books in my house, which doesn’t seem like a lot, a lot, a lot of challenge, unless you’re me and you just held on to books for. I don’t know why I have some of these books, but I’m going to read them and find out.
00:36:06:01 – 00:36:17:37
Agent Palmer
But some of them are like, I don’t know if I like reading this, but, I mean, you finish it. I, I don’t know about you, but I’m the type of read once I started, even if I don’t like it, I’m going to finish it.
00:36:17:42 – 00:36:21:35
Margo Donohue
No, I, I, I can I could put something down, I can’t.
00:36:21:40 – 00:36:23:45
Agent Palmer
I just can’t I don’t know what it is.
00:36:23:45 – 00:36:37:27
Margo Donohue
I know it’s a completist thing, I don’t know, maybe that’s it. I had a friend that was like that with The New Yorker and she would just I’d see her and she’d be like, exhausted the next, like she’d be exhausted. I’m like, why are you so tired? Because I was up till two in the morning reading The New Yorker.
00:36:37:27 – 00:37:02:19
Margo Donohue
And I’m like, well, what did you read? Just because I read everything? Like she starts page one, like, and me, I flip through what sounds interesting, you know, are there images attached? Does that seem like my jam? No, it doesn’t seem my jam. Whatever she was like now, I read when she read the newspaper, her Sunday newspaper hours, because she read every section.
00:37:02:23 – 00:37:07:00
Margo Donohue
I’m just I don’t have that in me, my brain. Just even if I did it, I wouldn’t remember it.
00:37:07:00 – 00:37:45:53
Agent Palmer
So yeah, I, I the memory part is I got, I think for me and I might have done better in school had I figured this out when I was still, you know, in school. For me, the blog helps me remember and retain more about the books I read because I, I take notes as I go along, but because I’m a purist and I don’t like highlighting or writing in books, I just make little notes like first paragraph, page 70, and then I go back and I type out whatever I really enjoyed from that.
00:37:45:53 – 00:38:13:24
Agent Palmer
And then I write my thoughts about the book. And that process has. Basically made it so that I remember and retain a lot more of the book than when I was just reading the book. And people are like, well, what did you learn? The bad guy died, like, I mean, you need more than that. And I think that I’ve found I’ve found a process that works for me.
00:38:13:29 – 00:38:21:24
Agent Palmer
Which is weird because I’m not getting graded anymore. So of course, now I’ve got it down pat. Now I’ve.
00:38:21:29 – 00:38:40:24
Margo Donohue
I’ve figured it out. How do you take in information? When we were growing up, nobody takes the time to try to find out. They’re just. You’re all going to learn the same way. We’re going to give you the same amount of time. That’s that. And I’m the same way. Like, I need to sometimes hear something and then read it and then like, write it down.
00:38:40:29 – 00:38:44:41
Margo Donohue
But it’s very hard for me to like, listen and write down at the same time.
00:38:44:55 – 00:39:12:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. And I the other thing that’s weird and I think weird is the right thing for this is. I, I find myself wondering because I’ve been going through old things because, like, I, I, I probably held on to more books. I held on to a lot. I was a packrat for most of my life. And I’ve, I’ve disavowed myself of that notion, thank God.
00:39:12:53 – 00:39:42:50
Agent Palmer
Otherwise I’d be. I would have no place to move in my house. But, like, as I go through older things, I’m just amazed at, like, what seems to be talent that I had. Then no interest in using. I’m using it now, like the blog is me using that talent. But like, I’ve read some papers that are like.
00:39:42:55 – 00:40:06:11
Agent Palmer
Wow, this is actually really good. But like, it seems wasted on just a a college essay. Like. Like what? Like this was for an audience of one. This is wasted on an audience of one that, by the way, gave me a B. Thank you.
00:40:06:15 – 00:40:30:32
Agent Palmer
I don’t know some of that stuff, and I don’t know what I’ll make of it. And that’s the like, I kind of envy you because, like, there there’s a small part of me, very small that wants to write a book, but I have no ideas. Like you, in the course of the last 30 minutes have probably mentioned it, that like five different books you would write.
00:40:30:37 – 00:40:42:50
Agent Palmer
I could take the next 30 minutes in silence and not come up with one. None. Just I don’t, I don’t know and I write three times a week.
00:40:42:55 – 00:40:43:25
Margo Donohue
Right.
00:40:43:27 – 00:40:51:01
Agent Palmer
Like it’s not like I’ve had authors on before and they’re always like, you got to treat it like a job and you got to do it on a regular basis.
00:40:51:02 – 00:40:51:44
Margo Donohue
Yes.
00:40:51:49 – 00:41:15:24
Agent Palmer
I have all of that down. I can’t come up with the thing like the the thing, the one thing I don’t know, maybe it’s my ADHD playing into it, which is why I don’t have a author’s podcast or a blog that’s only about books, right? Like I write about everything. I talk to everybody, but I don’t have that one thing that I like.
00:41:15:24 – 00:41:22:45
Agent Palmer
I, I have these conversations with you and I go like that. I don’t. That’s amazing.
00:41:22:50 – 00:41:41:03
Margo Donohue
Like you’re making me feel better about myself. Trust me. Thank you very much. But it’s it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of I mean, maybe it’s because I worked in marketing and PR, too. Like, you get a lot of rejection. You have to constantly come up with ideas for stories and you will get rejected.
00:41:41:17 – 00:41:53:39
Margo Donohue
Either it’s not working or it’s not good enough, or it just doesn’t fit for what they’re doing, or they’re wrong and you’re you’re you’re right, but they’re wrong. And there’s no way around it. I mean, you just have to get a thicker skin.
00:41:53:44 – 00:42:06:18
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, the the podcast is given me that, like my job search and the podcast have basically made me immune to failure or at the very least rejection.
00:42:06:23 – 00:42:06:51
Margo Donohue
00:42:06:55 – 00:42:25:56
Agent Palmer
Because I’m a one man podcast and without you I’m talking to myself and I don’t want to put that out like I’ll do solo episodes on occasion, but I don’t, I don’t want to be the guy who’s rambling on for 40 minutes by myself. So I need you.
00:42:26:00 – 00:42:28:13
Margo Donohue
And I mean, I’m the same way. I can’t do it.
00:42:28:13 – 00:42:54:00
Agent Palmer
And in order to get guests, you have to ask people. And at the very least, for someone like me who I don’t always just want to have my circle of friends in on my show. That seems insidious. At the very least, I have to go out of my circle. And if you go out of your circle, you’re going to get rejected at least at least half the time.
00:42:54:05 – 00:43:17:17
Agent Palmer
And this is going to be like episode 90 or something. I don’t even know anymore. But when you figure that out, like I’ve been rejected, at least as many times as there’s episodes, probably double that. And I’ve looked for a job for almost the entire length of this podcast. That’s a couple of years of rejection. It’s like it’s fine.
00:43:17:17 – 00:43:47:46
Agent Palmer
Like I when it happens, it happens when somebody says yes they’ll be on my show. Great. Somebody says no. Oh it’s it’s fine. Like I think you learn that, I’m not afraid of the rejection. I think I might be more afraid of success than I am a failure. But I don’t know where that comes from. It’s just a thought that just pops into my head every once in a while and then goes away.
00:43:47:51 – 00:43:59:45
Margo Donohue
Right. I think that’s more of like, what if I only have one idea? What if I only have one album? What if I only have one movie? What if I only have one book? What if I only have one? Whatever.
00:43:59:52 – 00:44:00:32
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:44:00:37 – 00:44:02:40
Margo Donohue
That’s a terrifying thought.
00:44:02:45 – 00:44:30:45
Agent Palmer
Yeah, especially for you and me, who always have a next thing. There’s always a next thing. Although. And I don’t know how you feel about this, but I am very comfortable being the guy behind the guy. I’m, I’m very I like I’m, I’m helping edit a my buddies second book of poetry. I edited his first one for me.
00:44:30:50 – 00:44:59:19
Agent Palmer
And maybe this is why I don’t have any of those ideas for books. I’m just as happy editing his book of poetry as I would be, of probably creating my own. And I’m okay helping produce a movie for a friend. Then I am producing my own. I think I’ve gotten to that point and I don’t. I don’t know where that comes from because.
00:44:59:24 – 00:45:02:38
Margo Donohue
It’s what’s humility. It’s also. Yeah.
00:45:02:38 – 00:45:04:17
Agent Palmer
Is is that what that is?
00:45:04:29 – 00:45:27:25
Margo Donohue
Yeah. And it’s yeah. People I my favorite quote from one of my editors that I worked in magazines for years and she said, people used to have a lot more respect for their shortcomings. People used to really understand and then just understanding, like what you’re good at, what you’re not good at, and learning along the way. And not like you’re a shining star every moment.
00:45:27:25 – 00:45:49:49
Margo Donohue
Like, you know, really like, yeah, I mean, I’m good at that too. I’m really good at just like, I’ll just do the work, I’ll do the editing, and nobody has to see me do the editing. Let’s say it’s not interesting, is it? But I’ll do it because it needs to get done. And I like, you know, it’s part of the process for me and the storytelling is putting the, the elements together.
00:45:49:54 – 00:46:08:58
Margo Donohue
I, I’ve worked in PR, I’ve promoted for other people all the goddamn time for years, sometimes huge celebrities, big stars. So it’s just products, whatever. And then also I’ve promoted myself, and that’s been a new that feels new, that’s different.
00:46:09:03 – 00:46:20:41
Agent Palmer
It it’s I, as a content creator, and you know, this, we never promote ourselves enough.
00:46:20:46 – 00:46:23:23
Margo Donohue
You would argue with you about me.
00:46:23:27 – 00:46:35:40
Agent Palmer
Maybe not yourself, but your stuff. I don’t think we ever promote our stuff because I know that I much prefer creating than promoting.
00:46:35:45 – 00:46:59:20
Margo Donohue
I like both, to be honest, I, I really yeah, it could be that because that was my job. So I, I appreciate I yeah I you know it’s so funny is because I feel like oh I promoting all the time and I’m always I try to make sure to do everything Facebook and LinkedIn and blah, blah, blah. But you think like and I’m sure I have friends that were like, oh God, is she keep talking about her book.
00:46:59:20 – 00:47:17:53
Margo Donohue
You know, look, I got one thing I’m excited about to sell. Like step aside. But, you know, you’d be surprised. I was surprised at how many people would be, you know, the book came out in October, you know, December. We’re like, I don’t know, you wrote a book. What’s it about? Oh, and then they would buy tons of copies like it.
00:47:17:53 – 00:47:24:18
Margo Donohue
Just you never know what you’re going to catch people. And so that’s that was my big plus. There’s lots of big lessons I learned.
00:47:24:23 – 00:47:58:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I think that it’s what, you know, we talked earlier about like not being the shining star and being knowing what your strengths and weaknesses are. I also think that people need to kind of open their eyes a little bit more, because like. I know, I know if I could get, like, if I had money and I could get an intern, I could probably do much better.
00:47:58:35 – 00:48:16:15
Agent Palmer
With somebody who’s not me, because I think there’s a there’s for all the ego that’s involved in. Hey, I think you should listen to my show because it’s good. There’s a lot of ego, like push back. It’s like, don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t call too much attention to yourself.
00:48:16:20 – 00:48:16:48
Margo Donohue
Right?
00:48:16:48 – 00:48:35:34
Agent Palmer
I don’t know I don’t know where that is because obviously, like, I’m putting this out on the internet and I’m, I’m publishing a blog that’s on the internet. Like, I’m not I’m not hiding this stuff, but I’m also, I don’t know, like, I have a problem standing up on my soapbox and being like, hey, look at my stuff.
00:48:35:41 – 00:48:48:52
Margo Donohue
Like, I yeah, yeah, well, no one knows unless you do it. Well, that’s if you show pride and what you do and what you’re putting out. People respond to that. And then anybody who gives you a hard time is just an asshole and just don’t even.
00:48:48:52 – 00:49:00:35
Agent Palmer
Well, that and like, what if you created I mean, that’s the other thing. Like you put out a book and I’ve not so like, like you have something to be proud of. That’s, you know. Yeah.
00:49:00:35 – 00:49:12:13
Margo Donohue
And I’m gonna that’s my time and I’m going to take it because I’ve been through enough. I mean, I lost both of my parents and both of my brothers in the last seven years. That’s been through some shit.
00:49:12:13 – 00:49:13:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it’s a lot.
00:49:13:21 – 00:49:27:07
Margo Donohue
It’s a lot. So if I have this time, something that makes me happy makes me feel good. You know, I’m going to take that time and enjoy it. And y’all can join me or get the hell out of my way as far as I’m concerned.
00:49:27:07 – 00:49:56:32
Agent Palmer
Well, and that’s that’s the thing I’ve noticed. And I, I don’t like talking about marketing because I think it’s. When when it’s done right, it’s clean. But I think most of the time it’s just dirty. And that’s for my experience in marketing. It just, I just, I a too many followers, not enough creators, and, I mean, literal creators, like, not enough people that are trying new things.
00:49:56:36 – 00:50:18:00
Agent Palmer
There’s too many people that are like, oh, that worked for Coke, that worked for Verizon, that worked for so-and-so, like, let’s do that for us. It’s like, well, you’re not coke, you’re not. Right. Like, but I just, I, I think, I think that might be my aversion to it for myself. It’s just like, I don’t know, I don’t have any new ideas.
00:50:18:13 – 00:50:47:43
Agent Palmer
I don’t know what I want to do to shine the light on myself. But, then again, this podcast is about shining a light on me. It’s about shining a light on you, like, really, you know? And that’s. I talk to interesting people that will either teach me something or, you know, teach my audience something. And I, I like highlighting others.
00:50:47:48 – 00:51:11:03
Margo Donohue
So do I, I, I like, yeah, I, I’m the same way. I think we have just healthy egos. They’re, they’re, you know where I don’t feel diminished when I promote another person or I shine a light on someone else, I don’t I don’t feel worse about myself at all. So I mean, some, but some people do. Some people totally need to be the center of attention.
00:51:11:17 – 00:51:26:57
Margo Donohue
They very uncomfortable and they have to abdicate any of that. And then there’s some people who just just are so mouthy they can’t even shine. The sides are so withdrawn. They’re so quiet. I think you and I, it’s just a healthy balance.
00:51:27:01 – 00:51:35:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah. That’s fair, that’s fair. Before before I let you go, I have to ask. Favorite movie filmed in Brooklyn?
00:51:35:39 – 00:51:57:09
Margo Donohue
Moonstruck. I have a few films that I put in my bio that, you know, and there’s Do the Right Thing. The Warriors, Little Fugitive. There’s there’s great, great movies that were made in Brooklyn and I and, but the one that I kept going back to and then I’ve watched like four times in the last two years. It would be Moonstruck.
00:51:57:09 – 00:52:25:51
Margo Donohue
I think Moonstruck is so much more than a rom com from the 80s. It’s so smart. It’s funny as hell. It’s weird. You have no idea where they’re going with it. And the use of Brooklyn is amazing and the cast is amazing, and Cher Nicolas Cage are just at their best. They’re so beautiful and they look great together and I, I couldn’t I can’t recommend it enough when people ask me that.
00:52:25:51 – 00:52:37:49
Margo Donohue
That’s it’s that’s all I say. Moonstruck.
00:52:37:54 – 00:53:14:48
Agent Palmer
There are some great universal truths that come up during this episode. Timing is everything. Reading and good writing are inescapably intertwined. The publishing industry is generally much harder than people outside of it presume. In this conversation, all three things ring not only true, but they combined into the narrative of Margo’s story for creating her first published book. I have over my lifetime attempted to journal, and with the exception of four months in the spring of the year 2000, I have never been successful.
00:53:14:53 – 00:53:46:02
Agent Palmer
Now, you could argue that I’m just not the journaling type. Clearly, I’m old enough to be living for more than 400 months, and yet in only four specific ones did I actually journal daily. That seems like it wouldn’t be my thing. And yet, I’ve attempted a few more times since the year 2000. You could argue that those four months were unique and that that was what led to the journals I still have being full of words and thoughts and stories, but I find some fault with that because while it was the most chaotic semester of my life, it was also the busiest.
00:53:46:16 – 00:54:11:00
Agent Palmer
I had the least amount of time to journal, and yet I still found a way. So now we’re back to timing and how it’s everything. Perhaps that’s it. My bright spot in journaling is punctuated by two plane rides. And that’s just the way it is. And that’s okay. But I still make attempts, although now they are only feeble ones because the blog and this podcast have replaced the urge.
00:54:11:05 – 00:54:31:58
Agent Palmer
Though daily writing is something others tell me I’d love, who knows? But the point is the timing of that trip, who I was then and what was happening was clearly the right time for my journaling to happen. And I’m not sad about that. That it hasn’t worked out since or any time before is immaterial. I have a college degree because of those journals.
00:54:32:11 – 00:54:53:14
Agent Palmer
I recreated that very project in episode 24 of this podcast. I know that having moved to a more public venue with blogging and podcasting has not ruined my ability to tell stories and share information. There isn’t much I don’t share on the podcast, and while I’m more guarded with the blog, I would argue it has replaced my journaling.
00:54:53:19 – 00:55:13:54
Agent Palmer
So what does this have to do with timing, reading, and the publishing industry that I spoke of at the very beginning of this diatribe? It is an example of timing being everything. Sure, I was in a foreign land on my own, but so were the others with me. I was reading new books and seeing new things and I decided to publish it in my own way.
00:55:13:59 – 00:55:35:39
Agent Palmer
Not everyone has to go through traditional publishing channels, but that doesn’t make it any less hard. When you’re inspired, whether it be for four hours or four months, make sure you don’t waste the inspiration because it doesn’t always maintain, and sometimes you can lose it for a very long time. And I’m not upset that that journaling only worked out once for me.
00:55:35:39 – 00:55:56:57
Agent Palmer
I’m actually happy it worked out at all. So do me a favor the next time you have the inspiration to write, draw, create, do it. And if you’re willing to share it with me, I’d love to see what you can come up with. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 91. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
00:55:56:58 – 00:56:17:21
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact myself and my guest, Margo Donahue, in the show notes. There you will find more information about Margo, her book, and many of her podcasts at her website. Brooklyn Fit Chick Comm and filmed in Brooklyn. Her debut published work can be found there.
00:56:17:21 – 00:56:38:22
Agent Palmer
As well as that many large retailers and online email can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:56:38:27 – 00:56:46:18
Unknown
You.
00:56:46:23 – 00:57:04:19
Unknown
See?
00:57:04:24 – 00:57:09:14
Unknown
Me.
00:57:09:19 – 00:57:15:05
Unknown
Leave.
00:57:15:09 – 00:57:17:46
Agent Palmer
All right. Margo, do you have one final question for me?
00:57:17:51 – 00:57:21:01
Margo Donohue
Yeah. What is your favorite movie from Brooklyn?
00:57:21:05 – 00:58:02:20
Agent Palmer
Oh, I should I you know, I should have seen this coming. Moot. Okay. So Moonstruck is a very good one, because my. It’s one of those. It’s one of those films that make me believe that my parents have really great taste in media because, like, they were like, you have to watch this. And Moonstruck is up there for them with, like, lovers and other strangers stripes and like, the just these films that we quote all the time in the family.
00:58:02:25 – 00:58:15:26
Agent Palmer
So I, I guess I. I don’t know, I, I kind of discount all the Marvel stuff because I feel like it. It’s not.
00:58:15:31 – 00:58:49:41
Agent Palmer
I, I’ve, I love Marvel, don’t get me wrong, but there’s a part of me that feels like it doesn’t belong on any favorites list, because most of the time it’s our investment in Marvel that makes us enjoy I. Okay, Iron Man is the exception because that one can stand on its own, but like any of the subsequent ones that might feature in either Brooklyn or Manhattan or any of the five boroughs, Spiderman all happen down the road.
00:58:49:41 – 00:59:13:24
Agent Palmer
So we’re invested in the world of the MCU. So I feel like I can’t I can’t take one of those, and it’s been so long since I’ve seen Saturday Night Fever that I don’t know if I could include that, and I think I’d prefer to watch Moonstruck over the Warriors. Like, if given a choice, I’d have to be in the mood for the Warriors.
00:59:13:29 – 00:59:24:20
Agent Palmer
And I think the same can be said for Do the Right Thing and. Yeah, like, I think Moonstruck is a 90% of the time, I’ll say yes, put it on.
00:59:24:25 – 00:59:42:31
Margo Donohue
It’s a perfect movie. It really is like a minute and 37 minutes. This movie just kind of finds its way and just tells the story and if this part and I love Judd Apatow, but if Apatow done this movie, it would have been 2.5 hours. It would have been, I.
00:59:42:31 – 00:59:49:40
Agent Palmer
Don’t know, because Apatow has movies he he really kind of he doesn’t want to go over two hours.
00:59:49:45 – 00:59:55:15
Margo Donohue
Yeah, I, I, I I’ll disagree with you there. Let’s agree to disagree there. I, I have my feelings about it.
00:59:55:15 – 01:00:04:23
Agent Palmer
I mean, I haven’t seen any of the more recent ones just because I’ve kind of fallen. Away from that kind of stuff.
01:00:04:27 – 01:00:22:28
Margo Donohue
Hey, he’s great at self-promotion. I think he stopped. He unfollowed me on Twitter or something because I teased him one time, but like, because he was just really promoting a movie for like six weeks straight. But that’s how you do it, you know? It’s the other side of me. Like there’s a part of me that would sit that I’m like, but how else do you get your message out?
01:00:22:30 – 01:00:23:32
Agent Palmer
Well and good for him.
01:00:23:33 – 01:00:24:29
Margo Donohue
It’s a. Yeah.
01:00:24:29 – 01:00:28:10
Agent Palmer
But he, he’s a director and a producer and a writer.
01:00:28:10 – 01:00:28:57
Margo Donohue
And a writer.
01:00:28:58 – 01:00:39:53
Agent Palmer
And how many director producer writers do you know that actually promote their movie? Like, aside from the one tweet, which is like, my movie comes out tomorrow, go see, like I saw the.
01:00:39:53 – 01:01:01:21
Margo Donohue
Interviews in New York and LA and then they call it a day. Whereas here he’s like the whole process. Yeah, he just signed Amy Schumer to do a script. We’re going to head the first day there. I mean he does build that. And I give him major props for that. And you be a dream client, I think because he’s somebody that just like because I can’t tell you, I’ve worked with authors.
01:01:01:26 – 01:01:22:11
Margo Donohue
Holy shit. I have one guy. He’s such an asshole. He’s from Philadelphia, Tom Moon, he was an NPR writer. I think he’s still with NPR, but he did a book, about 1000 albums to listen to before you die. So it’s like along with those, you know, the places to visit, blah, blah, blah. And he worked for rolling Stone for a while.
01:01:22:16 – 01:01:43:04
Margo Donohue
And the first day I met him, I said, get a copy, send it to Yan Wenner, just send Diane Wenner, just write a little note. Hey, buddy, I just wrote a book. I hope you like it. That’s all you gotta do. He never did it. Never sent it to anyone he ever worked with. I said, just send a note because I don’t want to look like I’m trying to, ha, blah blah blah.
01:01:43:09 – 01:01:57:30
Margo Donohue
Meanwhile, so we were on we were going to be in we they took a photo of it with us for our Christmas list, and it didn’t make the cut, and it didn’t make the cut because it didn’t make the cut. But he was calling me screaming at me like, why did I make the cut? And I’m like, I’m not at rolling Stone.
01:01:57:30 – 01:02:07:36
Margo Donohue
I’m not an editor. I can’t do that. And I said, and it’s on you to reach out to people you know. And he said, you never told me. He’s such a fucking liar. I hate this.
01:02:07:36 – 01:02:31:22
Agent Palmer
Guy. I’m going to get all of the names wrong. But the premise that it reminds me of is, look, I’m a fan of Sorkin in almost any fashion, and I was very enthralled by the HLN, West Wing marathon over not only Thanksgiving, but the holidays.
01:02:31:22 – 01:02:35:16
Margo Donohue
Two days I was home, I was on vacation watching it. I got into.
01:02:35:16 – 01:02:58:26
Agent Palmer
It. So when you’re telling that story, I immediately think of Toby recruiting C.J. when she falls in the pool and he’s. And she’s like, so-and-so. I got fired because so-and-so fell from fifth most powerful man to 20th most powerful man. And Toby’s like, and it matters. And she’s like, they take this really seriously. And to me, an outsider.
01:02:58:28 – 01:03:24:32
Agent Palmer
Not in Hollywood. I’m Toby, how can you take this seriously? And C.J., who’s obviously working for the thing is, like, no, they really take this seriously. And to me. If you’re going to take it seriously to your point, you have to write the letter you can’t like, you can’t leave. And if if you’re not, you if you if you take it seriously, you can’t leave anything to chance.
01:03:24:32 – 01:03:44:28
Agent Palmer
You have to write the follow up. You have to send the email. Even if it’s not, it goes on unnoticed. Like you have to do it because if you don’t, you fall or you don’t get the thing, or you’re not featured or whatever. And that’s not to say that if you do it, you will, but if you don’t, there’s less of a chance, I guess, because you.
01:03:44:28 – 01:04:07:19
Margo Donohue
Cover your ass. Yeah. And, you know, it’s something that that it’s not like you’re saying I’m sending him 1,000 pound of your new poetry. You’re sending him something the guy is interested in. Yeah, right. So it’s never like bothering people. I believe I went to my contacts and some people didn’t get back to me, of course, but a lot of people did.
01:04:07:24 – 01:04:24:00
Margo Donohue
And they were hopeful. It doesn’t don’t you know, they could have been like, we didn’t sell enough ad pages, so that photo didn’t make it in there. So none of the things that were in the photo made it. And this is all magazine shit. Yeah, but but but he just was like, you never told me and I. And it was such a lie.
01:04:24:00 – 01:04:40:47
Margo Donohue
But it’s also just like, why not set yourself up for the most a child’s chance of success? Why? It takes nothing to send an email to someone and said, hey, it’s been a while, I’m working on something. I thought you might be interested in it. Let me know. I’d be happy to send you a copy or you know.
01:04:40:47 – 01:04:50:08
Margo Donohue
Anyway, just checking in. Hope you’re doing well. Boom! And people like I don’t ignore those things. When somebody sends me I, I tension.
01:04:50:11 – 01:05:12:15
Agent Palmer
I respond to those things. I would love email to come back and be more than, a graveyard of newsletters. I didn’t read like I would like any I would, I mean, at this point, like, I would love an email that said, like, hey, even from a former guest from a stranger, like, hey, I’m working on this thing.
01:05:12:15 – 01:05:32:50
Agent Palmer
You might be interested or even from, like, it’s a it’s like, it doesn’t have to be a listener being like, oh, I like the show. It could just be like, hey, I’m working on this thing. Thought you might be interested in at are you kidding? How many like, all of it. It would. It would be the equivalent of getting a letter in the mail.
01:05:32:50 – 01:05:34:56
Agent Palmer
Like a real letter in the mail.
01:05:34:56 – 01:05:53:32
Margo Donohue
Like a real birthday card or something. So we haven’t heard from in a while. Like something like that. Right. And sure, there’s some industries like in LA, everyone’s pitching each other and there, and if you don’t, bands people are constantly pitching each other. But I’m just talking about you worked on something. It exists. It’s really good, and you want people to know about it.
01:05:53:36 – 01:06:13:17
Margo Donohue
I would never ignore that email or that text or Facebook post or whatever. Somebody just reached out and said, hey, I wrote something about Brooklyn. You might be interested in it. I’d at least respond, yeah, hey, wait, why would you not do that? But then there’s that whole thing. Like, I don’t want to look like I’m trying. I don’t want to look like I’m asking for things I don’t.
01:06:13:21 – 01:06:19:52
Margo Donohue
I don’t want to work too hard for attention. I want it just to come to me. And I’m just like, you’re going to lose a lot of shit in life. That’s your attitude.
01:06:19:54 – 01:06:32:51
Agent Palmer
That’s like, also, that’s not how attention works. Like, no. When was the last time you turned your head really sharply to look at something that didn’t happen, right? No. You heard a crash and you look to your left.
01:06:32:56 – 01:06:54:22
Margo Donohue
That’s a good point. It’s it’s infuriating. Yeah. It’s like I’ll not. He tried to follow me on LinkedIn or something, and I’m just like, Shu, you got to go. I just can’t I can’t with you. But. Yeah, that that was like a big thing to me. Like, if you know somebody, people, like, make fun of nepotism babies. But it’s like, if you know someone, use your contacts, like.
01:06:54:27 – 01:06:57:56
Agent Palmer
Why not? Yeah. And I like.
01:06:58:01 – 01:07:00:00
Margo Donohue
You know, I’ve been fair.
01:07:00:05 – 01:07:16:21
Agent Palmer
I’ve been I’ve been looking for a job for long enough that, like, there have been times when I’m like, I don’t want to get a job because of my parents. But then again, like, they’re just introducing me. And how is that any different than, like, Margot gave me your contact number. My father gave you my you, you know, got me your contact.
01:07:16:21 – 01:07:33:41
Agent Palmer
No. Like, it’s not really. It’s not that different. But I think that life works. We all have to go through that moment. But here’s the thing. The difference, right? You have to come out the other side and go, well, I’ll take the help where I can get it. And there are plenty of people that remain in the dark.
01:07:33:42 – 01:07:44:14
Agent Palmer
They never come out the other side. They’re never willing to settle. And these are the people that still play the lottery, like. Well, it’s not in your favor, buddy.
01:07:44:15 – 01:08:02:50
Margo Donohue
What do you hear about actors who didn’t get in or didn’t get famous from that, that you hear about, like, Brad Pitt was like, what did he do? He took every job he could get. He was in a chicken costume and giving out fliers. He did everything. Yeah, sure. He’s gorgeous, Brad Pitt and things are going to be easier for you, but it’s just like you.
01:08:02:55 – 01:08:18:43
Margo Donohue
You have to put yourself out there and you have to, and it’s uncomfortable. So just find a way to do it that makes you comfortable. But yeah, I had a friend that I was when I was doing the social media before and she said, why are you giving away all your images? No one’s gonna buy your book now.
01:08:18:43 – 01:08:21:45
Margo Donohue
And I’m like, no, that’s not how it works.
01:08:21:45 – 01:08:25:42
Agent Palmer
Like I did write words in this book. Like they tell it.
01:08:25:42 – 01:08:36:30
Margo Donohue
Like it’s so dumb. She’s not a friend anymore. But anyway, it’s it’s just it’s just. Yeah. Yeah, it’s, I think our generation, we’re. I don’t know if you’re Gen X or not.
01:08:36:30 – 01:08:37:24
Agent Palmer
I’m Gen X, I’m.
01:08:37:24 – 01:08:40:46
Margo Donohue
I’m or Gen Z are you.
01:08:40:50 – 01:08:54:04
Agent Palmer
I’m in between. Yeah. I’m. I’m in between. But I, I’m, I have all of the Gen X values. So I consider myself Gen X because I feel like at the end of the day, it’s the values you have that determine your generation.
01:08:54:09 – 01:09:15:02
Margo Donohue
And we’re very much like, we don’t want to look like we’re trying too hard, right? That’s the poser was a big word. Yeah. That was thrown around the 80s and 90s. It’s just like when you’re when you look like you’re just trying too hard, working too hard. You know, when you make fun of a Tracy flick, an election, whereas you get a little older, like Tracy is just doing her thing and trying to get ahead and execute.
01:09:15:02 – 01:09:18:00
Margo Donohue
Just you’re if you change that, it’s the mindset.
01:09:18:00 – 01:09:37:03
Agent Palmer
It’s the part we don’t think about when we, when we use the term poser is, well, do you know if they did the work or not. Yeah. Like if, if they, if the if they’re actually do like and you don’t know that by the way like we throw that word around. Of course we do. But if somebody’s doing the work.
01:09:37:07 – 01:09:41:16
Margo Donohue
And if you don’t like it so what. Yeah that’s another thing like that.
01:09:41:30 – 01:09:43:48
Agent Palmer
Turn it off. You don’t have to watch it.
01:09:43:56 – 01:10:07:07
Margo Donohue
You don’t have to listen to disco if you don’t like disco, if you don’t like Billy Ray Cyrus, you don’t have to listen to him. It’s. You can create. Trust me. You can create a universe where this shit doesn’t enter your life. It’s not that big of a deal, but then it’s. It’s a weird, white, male centric universe where it’s like, you can’t look like you’re trying too hard.
01:10:07:07 – 01:10:26:09
Margo Donohue
You can’t, you know, things should just appeal to you and you get angry if they don’t. And it’s just it’s that’s the bullshit from that generation that I’m glad is is gone away. I’m glad nobody uses the word poser because it’s a stupid word at it. Oh, thank Jovi’s they’re posers of metal. Like they’re making millions of dollars.
01:10:26:09 – 01:10:36:48
Margo Donohue
They they’ll be working the rest of their goddamn lives. You can. I like Iggy Pop. Who said I’m no martyr? Use my music for whatever you want. I gotta make a living. Like that’s. That’s the attitude.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).