Episode 169 featuring John Dodds, who doesn’t have time to slow down.
You’ll hear how he started in the mail room over the course of a long career with, not one but, two 20 year stints, plus constant change, unearthing uniqueness, texture, jazz, and much much more…
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
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Being Jewish colors the black-and-white history in Maus
Married Woman Continues to Date: An Series Introduction
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions..
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–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:05 – 00:00:28:58
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com. Mrs. Agent Palmer has a new series debuting on the blog being Jewish Colors the Black and White History in mouse. And as far as the next mission is concerned, I’m only one season into enterprise. This is The Palmer Files episode 169 featuring John Dodds, who doesn’t have the time to slow down. You’ll hear how he started in the mailroom over the course of a long career with not one, but 220 year stints plus constant change, unearthing uniqueness, texture, jazz and much, much more.
00:00:29:00 – 00:00:32:17
Agent Palmer
Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:32:22 – 00:00:47:01
John Dodds
I started in the mailroom and that’s when we had paper mail. I don’t define retirement. I. I regard it as next stage.
00:00:47:06 – 00:01:11:20
John Dodds
But you don’t have to do an awful lot of stuff. And that’s the problem. If you’re if everyone is busy life hacking and shortcutting their way through. What are you racing for? You go and sit down and listen to jazz and it’ll. There it’ll go off on a tangent and so do you. And that’s the essence. And you’re allowed to do that.
00:01:11:25 – 00:01:32:52
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 169th episode is John Dodds. He’s got his own nontraditional consultancy, the Sharp End LLC. He’s the host of Cafe podcast, standing for Words of Wisdom, and he volunteers for my local radio station as a host and board member, which is how I met him.
00:01:33:01 – 00:01:52:48
Agent Palmer
John is worldly, knowledgeable, shows no sign of slowing down, as you’ll soon hear. And if you really want to know about marketing or music, make sure you lead with that. Because John has more opinions on both and he has knowledge. You’ll hear some of it in the upcoming episode, plus stories about starting his podcast, starting in the mailroom, and starting the next stage of his life.
00:01:52:59 – 00:02:17:44
Agent Palmer
Before we get there, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen to afterward, you can find all related ways to contact John and myself in the show notes. You can find John’s corner of the internet at the sharp-and.com, and easy links to his podcast, Cafe can be found at the sharp end.com/podcast. As always, don’t forget you can see all of my writings and rantings on Jim palmer.com.
00:02:17:44 – 00:02:27:49
Agent Palmer
And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:27:54 – 00:02:55:57
Agent Palmer
John. I describe this show as a cup of coffee and, well, I can’t help but notice that the podcast that you have started is literally set within a cafe where you. So some people choose things harder than a cup of coffee, but people have a nice beverage and they talk. Why do you start a podcast?
00:02:56:04 – 00:03:26:47
John Dodds
Great question. Because if there aren’t many of them around. And the reason I did it was because I have a lot of very good friends and acquaintances that I’ve met along the way, and it’s almost like a scrapbook, really. It is. I’ve taken a very different approach. I’m not into life hacking, I do. My guests will give tips about the trade, and the whole purpose is to unearth the uniqueness of their craft.
00:03:26:47 – 00:03:54:50
John Dodds
But also about them. And so it’s really, a composite, a true conversation in a in a virtual coffee bar. And we go to places that are very different to most podcasts. We get right into the early stages of individuals. And so for me, it’s the purpose was to unearth the uniqueness of the people that I enjoy the company of.
00:03:54:50 – 00:04:03:16
John Dodds
And as the times go on and I start to find new people, it’ll be the same thing. It’ll be just taking them on a different path than the normal one.
00:04:03:17 – 00:04:22:07
Agent Palmer
Now, you were in radio at some point, or you still are, and I, I know that you’ve been in marketing for forever, and obviously these are skills that are required for podcasting to certain degrees depending on. But you could have done anything.
00:04:22:12 – 00:04:46:27
John Dodds
I think I will I’m still gonna have my business, my branding business. And I enjoy helping people, especially non-profits. You know, I talk a lot about this on earth uniqueness. And I fundamentally believe that that is where the truth lies for an organization. And whether it’s a small nonprofit or a large company. We tend to get lost in all of this.
00:04:46:27 – 00:05:08:18
John Dodds
And so by having the podcast and having my business, they they kind of work in parallel because they, they’re trying to do the same thing to unearth the uniqueness. But to to go on to how you create one or you, you know better than anybody how challenging it is. And for me, the conversation has always been a fairly easy one.
00:05:08:18 – 00:05:30:10
John Dodds
I love talking to people. The technology is hard to do it well. There’s a lot of podcasts out there, but I’ve had very good assistance from people like you and, Ty Hildenbrand to really up the game technically, because it’s so important that people get a good quality sound as well as a good quality conversation. Yeah.
00:05:30:10 – 00:06:03:12
Agent Palmer
And, I mean, you you were a professional through what I would call, the greatest technological switch in the last, maybe 300 years, where when you first started professionally, I mean, when you start, I mean, let’s start here. When you started professionally, what were you using to write things like typewriters? I mean, I know, I know, you’re not that old, but it.
00:06:03:12 – 00:06:05:21
Agent Palmer
No, we don’t have to go that far back.
00:06:05:32 – 00:06:34:08
John Dodds
But it’s it is apps. I started in the mailroom, and that’s when we had paper mail, and, I was sorting out all the magazines for the shell executives. When I, started my first job at shell, and it was literally you would get the, the, the envelopes and you’d open the envelopes and the letters to the, executives.
00:06:34:13 – 00:07:00:43
John Dodds
They would respond through their, typing pool, to the response to the letter from the businesses. And then they would wait for the response. And so it was literally how people did business. And we would I worked in the, in Shell Center in the middle of Waterloo. They had two buildings, and they had something called a lamps and tube.
00:07:00:48 – 00:07:29:28
John Dodds
And that was a suction kind of device, which you’d send all of the mail down to the central mailroom down this suction tube. It was. It’s like those old department stores that, used to send the bills up. It was quite different. Quite different. And so I remember very well, I remember when, fax machines came out and fax machines were shockingly innovative.
00:07:29:33 – 00:07:58:57
John Dodds
And also, of course, when emails started coming through and, and then when the internet came along and, and how difficult it was to reblog something when you were writing. And now, of course, you just click something and it’s forwarded and the way you go. So, yeah, I have gone through the technology and I think but there’s some still fundamental truths that underlie whether it’s advertising or marketing that seem to get lost along the way.
00:07:58:57 – 00:08:07:01
John Dodds
We we think the technology is everything, but actually the differentiation comes from the humanity. Yeah. Not the technology.
00:08:07:06 – 00:08:31:40
Agent Palmer
But that that, I mean, you’re a human and you’ve evolved from, you know, a typing pool, which, by the way, I’m not like, it’s it’s like that’s well, like, that’s the thing. It’s not well before my time. You’re not. You’re older than me. You’re not that much older. But like, I remember mail rooms and I did an internship at a hospital.
00:08:31:40 – 00:08:43:53
Agent Palmer
And you would go to the mail room and that’s where, I mean, almost every correspondence was. And that’s just kind of like the central hub. And then, you know, I so, so I always.
00:08:43:54 – 00:08:50:59
John Dodds
Missed a bit of life. If you haven’t experienced, as a youngster walking into a typing pool, believe me.
00:08:51:04 – 00:09:19:27
Agent Palmer
I mean, there thankfully, I mean the close or I guess unfortunately the closest anybody will have is there are movies that kind of put you into these places where there is, you know, a classroom’s worth of usually women typing and just endless typing. And I think that’s the closest you’re going to come now. But I don’t think I think even movies is probably the closest you’ll get to a mailroom these days as well.
00:09:19:39 – 00:09:41:05
John Dodds
Yeah, well, I think that’s true. I, I think it depends on the type of company. But in principle, obviously most of, the day to day communications is email. And, that may even change as well. With AI there may be very different, technologies. But I think what’s interesting, the point you make is about how you evolve.
00:09:41:12 – 00:10:10:32
John Dodds
And do you get, are you a victim of voice or are you a vector of it? And I, I like to I love talking to people like you and Tai and other, younger folk because it, my mentors, I’ve always been probably younger than I because, sometimes the older you get, people don’t want to learn as much.
00:10:10:32 – 00:10:35:29
John Dodds
And I have an insatiable desire to learn and and to absorb knowledge. And, I don’t mind making mistakes. I don’t mind finding out different ways of doing things and trying to change. And I think that’s the nature of why companies and individuals need to be flexible these days. If you’re stuck in a way you you’re stuck in a particular groove, you’re going to have a problem.
00:10:35:34 – 00:10:51:23
Agent Palmer
So were you always, like, I mean, professional student, I guess, you know, maybe or maybe maybe as a hobby, you’re a student always. If you’re always learning, like, was this always the case? Because I can tell you, I think it was.
00:10:51:34 – 00:11:21:40
John Dodds
Yeah. I think it was. But I think in my early days I got a bit tainted because I didn’t do the right subject to school. And, a dear friend of mine, we went on holiday in Wales and he said to me, you know, you really need to go and study what you love. The, the subject I loved, I loved English at school and I couldn’t do it because a range of different that that the master was too spooky and it was pretty elitist.
00:11:21:40 – 00:11:52:30
John Dodds
And so that didn’t happen. And so I ended up taking his advice and, taking a marketing degree, in my spare time. While I was working at shell. And, you know, I think companies have lost their way a little bit and how they developed people. Shell was an amazing company, for developing its talent, not just those from universities, but they would encourage you to go to evening classes and, they would pay for the books and they’d pay for the courses if you did 90%.
00:11:52:30 – 00:12:05:40
John Dodds
And then when I passed them, they recognized it, and promoted me. And it was just a wonderful, culture of recognition for people who are trying to work a little bit harder. You know.
00:12:05:45 – 00:12:17:55
Agent Palmer
If you don’t mind me asking, this is a slightly personal but professional question, which is how many companies did you have you worked for, before you started your own.
00:12:18:00 – 00:12:43:19
John Dodds
Good question. I’ve. I’ve worked in fall. I worked for shell for 20 years, and then I worked for, a telecoms company. Then I worked for spin off from the telecoms company. Then I worked, for our products, and then I did my own thing. So I did 220 year stints. One was with shell and one was their products.
00:12:43:23 – 00:13:07:46
John Dodds
But the interesting thing about shell in particular was it was at a time when you really could experiment. It was a unique time. I started out in operations after I moved on, what was in operations? I then went into sales. I then went into advertising. I then went into, back into sales again as a as a as a manager.
00:13:07:51 – 00:13:27:30
John Dodds
I then went into public affairs and then I went into a step out venture. So it was an extraordinary learning curve. And I the other thing I did was I made my own luck, too. I got to know the people in the places I wanted to be and, you know, and became friends with them. And they alerted me when opportunities arose.
00:13:27:30 – 00:13:54:04
John Dodds
So you know, I think you make your own luck a lot of the time in, in your career. So shell was a wonderful, training ground for me. And, same with our products. Although I had a similar job, the actual challenges were radically different. You know, as technology changed, as organizations changed, and, it was, they were both terrific jobs.
00:13:54:09 – 00:14:19:07
Agent Palmer
I’ll say, for anyone under the age of 40 listening, you are a unicorn. Two, 20 year jobs. I mean, I know what the statistics are right now as far as, like, I don’t know, I think seven is the, larger, longer end of the spectrum right now for staying in one place. And that’s not always, I mean, that’s both ways.
00:14:19:07 – 00:14:40:58
Agent Palmer
That’s the way. That’s just kind of how it works. I but I love the idea that within those 20 years, it’s not like you just went up, up, up. You made lateral moves, you tried different things. It’s it’s kind of like you had the career I wish I could have, And I only say that because I still.
00:14:41:02 – 00:14:43:35
John Dodds
Still can have. Well, I still can have.
00:14:43:40 – 00:15:12:46
Agent Palmer
The problem is I got to find an organization willing to take a chance because I sit down with people, and I did this with you. And they ask me what I want to do, and I always say, I don’t know, because I don’t like lying to people, and I genuinely. And, you know, I know there’s people out there that can really sell themselves, however, you know, if, if they need to fit into this cookie cutter place or this and I’ve just never been that person.
00:15:12:51 – 00:15:31:02
Agent Palmer
I honesty’s the I’m look, I’m very good at remembering stuff because I usually don’t make stuff up and I don’t stretch things. And that’s just because I couldn’t I wouldn’t be able to remember if I promised you something I couldn’t do in two weeks time, I wouldn’t be able to remember that. Right? So I know that honesty’s the best way.
00:15:31:02 – 00:15:52:08
Agent Palmer
But I also know sometimes that’s a detriment. Not knowing what you should, what you want your career path to be. It’s not easy for a lot of people to understand. And I look talking to you, you you you understood that? I think part of it is because you yourself were searching as you were going along.
00:15:52:08 – 00:16:29:04
John Dodds
Yeah. And that was a luxury. And there’s probably less of a luxury now because it’s things are more compartmentalized, especially working from home. You don’t get that teamwork. You don’t get that conversation. You don’t necessarily meet people that could, help you along the way. But I’ve always one of the I learned a phrase many years ago, and I kind of liked it for myself, really, which has been the leading edge of conformity, which is basically to challenge yourself and the organization, but not in such a way that you become irrelevant.
00:16:29:09 – 00:16:50:56
John Dodds
And I think that what I try to do and I think, I think I’ve succeeded in a lot of cases, was to just educate and inform without threatening, people or situations. And a lot of it is about maybe using humor and, and, and, companionship to get your perspective over.
00:16:51:09 – 00:17:08:25
Agent Palmer
And there’s a portion of that that is a little lost, on a zoom call or just a straight up phone call, you know, I mean, I, I feel like the oldest man in the room sometimes when people when I’m just like, call me like, I, I will pick up my phone. We I will talk on my phone.
00:17:08:25 – 00:17:29:18
Agent Palmer
I, I may be one of the few people in my entire friend group that talks on the phone, and I’ve, I don’t know what the right word is. It may be begrudgingly. I have made them begrudgingly answer because they will talk to me, but like I’m the only one, I’m the only person that calls them that they pick up everything else, goes to voicemail, or could be a text.
00:17:29:22 – 00:18:07:22
John Dodds
And and I think that is a little bit of a generational thing. And it’s also a timing thing too, because, you know, people are busy, but at the same time, there is no doubt I as soon as I start texting and it gets more than four sentences, I push the button for a phone call because, my belief is that if it’s a two word answer, that’s fine on either side, but if it starts getting complicated, firstly, I’m lousy at typing, and secondly, I want to have a richer conversation because a text is really, toilet paper as opposed to having a rich conversation.
00:18:07:22 – 00:18:31:01
John Dodds
And I always carry a notebook with me. I always, I don’t, sometimes I dictate into notes, but by and large, I’ll carry a notebook around me, to, to capture stuff. And again, it’s this whole texture thing. I was talking to someone today. I’ve suddenly got some amazing vinyl that I’ve bought off Facebook Marketplace, which is a first for me.
00:18:31:06 – 00:18:53:11
John Dodds
And just the the thrill of putting an old jazz record on and cleaning it off and hearing the texture of that jazz record and reading a sleeve notes. It’s kind of like the the music equivalent of the typing pool, you know, it’s it’s a lost art, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a stunning way of listening to music.
00:18:53:17 – 00:19:02:46
Agent Palmer
However, unlike the typing pool, it is coming back or it may not be coming back necessarily, but it’s not completely gone forever. I don’t.
00:19:02:50 – 00:19:04:15
John Dodds
I would agree with you, I.
00:19:04:16 – 00:19:55:36
Agent Palmer
I and I, I’m oh man, I got so lucky with past me. Right. Because I remember space being a premium specifically when I moved back home after college. And so the first thing I did was I bought binders for DVDs and CDs because, well, I don’t all this plastic takes up room and I don’t need it. However, I kept all the inserts, I kept all the booklets and what I genuinely, I don’t know what frame of mind I was in to do that other than now, many years later, decades later, I’m so thankful to have those notebooks.
00:19:55:41 – 00:20:24:41
Agent Palmer
And while I have a small vinyl collection because I grew up in the CD era, having the little booklet, being able to read, the equivalent of liner notes, I don’t know that those booklet, you know, some of those booklets were just two pages of credits and some of them were here’s every lyric, and here’s a bunch of thank you’s and photos, but I still have them, and I’m so thankful I didn’t get rid of them when I got rid of the cases.
00:20:24:41 – 00:20:28:09
Agent Palmer
But like you again, I got lecture.
00:20:28:17 – 00:20:53:10
John Dodds
It’s about texture. It’s about the richness of a conversation, the richness of enjoying music, the richness of having a pen. If someone you know does something nice, I will get out my fountain pen and write them a thank you. Now, that’s old school. And, you know, the kids won’t do that and all the rest of it, but they they they do.
00:20:53:10 – 00:21:16:29
John Dodds
Thank you. But they do it in a different way. But I just, I there’s certain things and it’s I’m not hanging on to it because I’m an old fart or anything. I can hang on to it because perhaps there’s a newness about being about having heritage, values and heritage. Feelings about the things that are fundamental, like a good walk.
00:21:16:32 – 00:21:35:38
John Dodds
I mean, most people I see walking, I’ve got the headphones on and they’re racing along because they want their Apple Watch to be better than last. I’m sitting there smelling the flowers. I’m walking quietly. I’m looking at the colors. I’m looking at, you know, and they may say, well, yeah, you can afford to, but, you know, we can all afford to, we can.
00:21:35:38 – 00:22:07:13
Agent Palmer
I, I usually am listening to something when I take a walk. But to what you said earlier though, you know, in the last two years, I got married and had a child and I will say we handwrote thank you notes to everybody. We didn’t have to. I’m sure you know, and I’m not throwing shade, and I’m not trying to say we’re better than anybody else, but I’m sure in some of those cases, a thank you text or even a phone call like would have been enough.
00:22:07:13 – 00:22:12:53
Agent Palmer
We didn’t have to handwrite it out. We didn’t. We didn’t have to is the is the point. But we.
00:22:12:53 – 00:22:32:09
John Dodds
Chose to. But you don’t have to do an awful lot of stuff. And that’s the problem. If you if everyone is busy life hacking and shortcutting their way through, what are you racing for? Who’s the guy? That is the jumps, the lights on the 309 on Center Valley Parkway that has a fair chance of getting wiped out forever.
00:22:32:09 – 00:22:42:06
John Dodds
Where is he going? That is. Is he is he going to meet the president or the Queen or whatever? You know, it’s like, where are they going that is more important than saving their life, you know.
00:22:42:10 – 00:23:02:37
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s and that’s there’s a, there’s an element of that where, you know, I get so you are, you are, you’re you’re your own boss. You’ve had a long career. I would, would this be would it be safe to say this is your retirement gig?
00:23:02:41 – 00:23:34:17
John Dodds
I don’t define retirement. I, I regard it as next stage. Okay. I have talk a lot of people. I said, you know, you think of a a potter, a potter who crafts beautiful vases, and he does it every day. Does he look at 65 and go, oh, 65, time to quit. Not me. I think it’s a certain skills that you have that you can bring then I don’t think unless you don’t like what you were doing before, I don’t think you actually give up whether you want to.
00:23:34:17 – 00:23:57:54
John Dodds
Right. So it takes a different direction. Okay. And so, I’m doing a lot of more writing, and, you know, the podcasts and whatever, but it’s, I would say that it’s just the next stage and I’m staying connected with what’s happening, in the world. I do spend a lot of time on the right kind of stuff on LinkedIn.
00:23:57:54 – 00:24:24:00
John Dodds
There’s some very good people to follow that offer very contemporary advice, and those that offer rich advice. You know, for anybody who’s interested in advertising, don’t think about social following social media gurus that give you eye tips. Follow someone like Dave Trott, who, has timely pieces of advice about advertising, which are just timeless truths that anybody in communications or marketing should follow.
00:24:24:12 – 00:24:51:04
Agent Palmer
So I, I bring it up because people will look at you and go, you have plenty of time to do X, y and Z. And here I am trying to convince my friends in I, I, I don’t know what to describe them. I guess in the pits in the trenches of corporate, either monotony or, you know, the, the ladder, so to speak.
00:24:51:09 – 00:25:22:12
Agent Palmer
And I listen to one album a day. Now, granted, sometimes those double albums really take up a lot of time, and it’s hard to, you know, and I, you know, I’m probably, you know, over the last two years, I’m probably more like six and a half albums per week than I am seven for seven. Some days just get too busy and it’s 10:00 and, you know, you know, it’s a two hour album or whatever, but I try as best I can.
00:25:22:12 – 00:25:48:47
Agent Palmer
So it’s, I mean, it started with, you know, trying to learn more about certain bands, certain genres, whatever. But now that’s kind of my it’s it’s basically my meditation, you know, in a sense, because I don’t I try not to I try to listen to the album. I try to, you know, I always the, the picture I would put of myself, as cliche as it is, is, you know, the end of Dazed and Confused.
00:25:48:48 – 00:26:16:20
Agent Palmer
I, I’ve got headphones on and I’m laying down. Sometimes I go for a walk, but, you know, it’s headphones on and that’s I’m actively listening to this album and a lot of them, a lot of them, even if they’re bands I love, a lot of the music is new to me, which is great. And so I try and get my friends like, yeah, but you could, you should listen to this album.
00:26:16:25 – 00:26:38:21
Agent Palmer
It’s like, it’s like 53 minutes. You have an hour. Like, even if they don’t aren’t going to treat it as meditation, you can you can do it while you’re commuting. You can listen to it while you’re washing the dishes or cooking it by like, you can do this. And I think that for a lot of them, and I think this is true of not just them being busy.
00:26:38:21 – 00:27:00:03
Agent Palmer
I think this is true of a lot of people as like a very big generalization. The starting part is the hardest part, because if they did put on an album for an hour, they’d realize a well, it’s not, it’s not that much of a cost. I mean, even, you know, regardless of what service you have, almost everybody’s got a service or access to it.
00:27:00:12 – 00:27:25:17
Agent Palmer
Even Spotify, for the most part, is has a free tier. You you may have an ad, it may take you an hour to listen to a 53 minute album, but you can sit down and listen without shuffle straight through an album. Like that’s possible. That’s doable. That’s not something I’m not asking them to run a marathon, and I always like, I always bring it up, but I always get a little bit disheartened when people are like, oh, I just don’t have the time.
00:27:25:17 – 00:27:47:28
Agent Palmer
Because to your point about the person gunning through a red light, you’re really going to look back on the week and go like, oh, I’m so glad I worked that extra 50 hours or whatever, like, or I, I’m so glad I burnt myself out, which is, you know, from where I’m staying. I’m just trying to be a good friend to being like, all right, here’s a thing you can do to prevent burnt out.
00:27:47:28 – 00:27:53:36
Agent Palmer
Here’s a here’s an hour. I’m I’m not. You’ve got 24 of them. And I’m not even asking for a full one like.
00:27:53:49 – 00:28:12:22
John Dodds
Well, and I think that, you know, it’s a bit of a fallacy to, to say that I’ve got time on my hands and these hard working guys that I don’t think anyone’s got time on their hands because time is a finite resource. And the older you get, the more you realize there’s a lot you need to cram into it.
00:28:12:22 – 00:28:34:46
John Dodds
Now it’s a different kind of work or a different kind of use of time. But, money isn’t the only resource that’s important. I know it’s important if you haven’t got it. Yeah, and I know it’s important. If you’re trying to raise a family and you’re trying to make ends meet. Of course it’s important. But your health is really important to at whatever age.
00:28:34:51 – 00:28:56:45
John Dodds
And, you know, and so is your time. And so I think if you using time to listen to music or whatever as a time for discovery of ideas, because at the end of the day, the only thing that we bring to work are ideas, because if we don’t, then I is just going to take over from us.
00:28:56:45 – 00:29:21:31
John Dodds
But if we bring ideas and we bring vitality to the role, and we bring a different perspective to it, which can help make the organization that we are involved with unique, then we bring value. If we don’t and we’re just clocking, clocking in and clocking out, then we don’t bring value to ourselves and we certainly don’t bring value to the organization.
00:29:21:31 – 00:29:46:00
John Dodds
So it’s up to us to look at things. Whether you were working at one of the things I did, I was quite careful with my time when I went to meetings. Specialized traveling, I would never be one, and there were plenty that would just turn up, for a dinner, for the meeting. And then we’d have the meeting and then would leave where we were Atlanta Ballet or whatever it was.
00:29:46:05 – 00:30:21:46
John Dodds
I would go early. I’d take the first flight out. I had my phone, I had, email. I could do exactly. I was connected as anybody was. If anybody needed me for a meeting, I could phone in. But what I did was to discover the areas I was in. So when I was actually in the meetings for a day or a couple of days or whatever, it was in the era, I felt I that I’d given the people who had invited me to the meeting, whether it be a customer or another part of the company, the service of finding out about their culture and their city.
00:30:21:50 – 00:30:37:28
John Dodds
I’m finding out for myself, and you can do that. I defy anybody to say I’m so busy. I’ve got meetings all day, I’m going to fly in. I’m going to do the meeting and fly back again. You’re kidding yourselves. And by the way, if you don’t believe it now, you sure will when you retire. But why did I do that?
00:30:37:33 – 00:30:39:08
John Dodds
So. And the answer is because you did.
00:30:39:12 – 00:31:18:57
Agent Palmer
Hilariously, I can think of one example where it’s impossible to do, but. And I don’t remember who it was, and I feel very bad that I can’t figure I’m trying to figure this out. I don’t know, but the people that I’m about to describe you would consider many would consider very lucky. Their rock stars. But when you hear and especially these older rock, it might have been one of the it might have been Duff from guns N roses, who said early on in our career, especially unlike, say, the Use Your Illusion tour, where they toured the world, the world for three straight years.
00:31:19:01 – 00:31:50:21
Agent Palmer
And I know health wise there, you know, they weren’t, you know, they were drinking. But they were on a machine and didn’t like. There’s always the cliche of what town are we in? And a good portion of that is because they never hotel venue, play bus, plane, hotel. Okay. If you’re in that kind of a place in that kind of a career, maybe you have an excuse for not seeing the sights, right.
00:31:50:26 – 00:31:51:05
Agent Palmer
Maybe.
00:31:51:05 – 00:31:51:54
John Dodds
Yeah, maybe.
00:31:51:54 – 00:31:53:38
Agent Palmer
Maybe most people are.
00:31:53:53 – 00:32:16:47
John Dodds
Mick Jagger, who suddenly works out that I’m not going to do that, and I’m going to go and sit in a bar in New Orleans and have a beer by myself and see if anyone recognizes me, as he’s been doing for a lot of things and a lot of country stars do exactly the opposite. They will actually turn up early and mingle with the fans and before their concerts.
00:32:16:52 – 00:32:40:46
John Dodds
And so, I’m, I’m, I know nothing about that business. I know they people work incredibly hard and they have ridiculous tour deadlines. And it is one city and they some of the time they don’t even know where they are. But I also, you know, when we I see here stars and that play a locally in Bethlehem, Arts quest.
00:32:40:50 – 00:32:52:10
John Dodds
I hear a lot of them say that we traveled, you know, when they play the big stage at Music Fest, they they say they traveled around the area and wanted to know a bit of the history, you know? So I think it just depends. Well, and.
00:32:52:10 – 00:33:14:55
Agent Palmer
I think it’s changed, too. I mean, one of the reasons that Duff brought it up when I was watching some video was that they don’t do that anymore. And it’s, you know, it’s they’ve been around the world. In fact, there are some bands from that era that probably even maybe 70s on that arena rock era where, yeah, it was all about the concert.
00:33:14:55 – 00:33:52:45
Agent Palmer
How many can we get? 104 concerts in 52 weeks in, you know, a bunch of cities. And so they were run ragged. And that was the industry at the time. And now it’s a little bit different. It’s a little bit more about these things. And I think as maybe other industries are struggling to catch up with, in a first, the music industry understands that a fresh artist, meaning a rested artist, will put on a better show than one who’s tired from three consecutive nights traveling from state to state to state, as an example.
00:33:52:50 – 00:34:11:39
John Dodds
Yeah. And I think the also technology has radically changed. I’ve got a dear friend in the record business and, a lot of people find their talent that you. I used to go with him to, bars and clubs in London to check out bands. He was an a and, guy for one of the record companies, and he was he was checking out the bands.
00:34:11:50 – 00:34:35:59
John Dodds
Now they just go on YouTube and find out, you know, who’s gathering, a lot of, interest and subscribes and, you know, they, they take it from there. And so the whole essence of how music is discovered and how music is actually transmitted is so radically different. But I think in terms of work, I just feel that you have to pace yourself.
00:34:35:59 – 00:35:05:11
John Dodds
If you look at the people at work, the there’ll be people at work night and day, especially if you’re at a hedge fund or whatever it is, and you’ll make good money and you’ll burn out, and then you’ll, go and work for a different kind of company. It’s a tried and tested formula, but the the simple truth is, the one that, that sits a quietly and thinks while everyone else is talking and then offers their advice is the one that people admire.
00:35:05:12 – 00:35:34:22
John Dodds
And I wouldn’t say I’m necessarily that one, but there are people who have that ability to just absorb information, stay away from the noise. And one of the reasons I do that is they give themselves space. They absolutely they’re ruthless with their time, absolutely ruthless. Whether it is about choosing the right people or, to dinner with or choosing, you know, the right meetings to go to, they give themselves space.
00:35:34:22 – 00:35:38:54
John Dodds
And that is where their, their stardom comes from.
00:35:39:04 – 00:36:07:02
Agent Palmer
I would also say it, the space is also processing time, right? Like you can’t you can sit there and listen most of the time. Most of the time, if you take in that much information, you have to process it. And you that that that requires space, which usually requires you if if you’re a writing person, you can write it down later.
00:36:07:02 – 00:36:34:48
Agent Palmer
Or if you’re a vocal person, you can, you know, use someone else as a sounding board or talk to yourself and record it, or just think it over and turn it over in your mind. All of these things take time. It’s not instant, and you need to take time just for whatever it is. My process is, for the podcast, for the blog, and it’s bled into almost everything else.
00:36:34:53 – 00:36:59:49
Agent Palmer
The quality that I get by putting some of these things, rough drafts or, you know, edited conversations on a shelf to give myself space to come look at it in a new light or to to to edit it without remembering what I took out or what I you know, the, you know, the initial idea and coming fresh space can mean a lot of different things, but it’s very important.
00:36:59:54 – 00:37:24:38
John Dodds
It is. And I think in terms of writing, this is where I sometimes struggle because I need space and I need quiet to let ideas come out. I’ve, I have a lot of writer friends, and they’re just naturals. They’re just right now. So I’m gonna do it in a coffee bar. A lot of them go. A friend of mine goes John Simmons, who’s a wonderful writer and was following on Substack.
00:37:24:38 – 00:37:48:22
John Dodds
He does, goes to museums and we’ll just sit and. Right. He has a ritual which he’s had for decades, which is Friday night, is writing night, and he will go up to his writing attic and he will write, and that’s all he does, and that’s why he’s there. And so he writes, which is a wonderful discipline.
00:37:48:27 – 00:38:07:33
John Dodds
Yeah. Because, you know, while you’re there and, you know, I’ve read countless books on this about, you can do what you like. You can twiddle your thumbs, you can what have you. What you can’t do is get up and you can’t. And you, you’ve just got to. And then you start putting pen to paper.
00:38:07:38 – 00:38:27:34
John Dodds
And the concept of free or automatic writing, where you just start writing stuff that comes out of your head, just get it out there is is the opportunity to, release that torrent, which then eventually becomes the kind of flow that you’re looking for in the writing that you’re doing.
00:38:27:39 – 00:38:36:48
Agent Palmer
So when you sit down to write. Pen and paper or keyboard, like what’s your, what’s your go to like.
00:38:36:53 – 00:38:59:42
John Dodds
Normally a pen and paper to start with. Okay. And then. Well it depends. Yeah. Normally it is I have a, a writing platform called Lex which if I’m, if it’s easier for me to just bullet point stuff I’ll use that. But normally it’ll be pen and paper and then I’ll just transcribe it. And then once I’ve, I’ve got the, the rudiments of an idea, then I’ll try and put it together.
00:38:59:42 – 00:39:23:02
John Dodds
Sometimes it just flows out. And, you know, it’s quite different between doing, a poem, or a eulogy, you know, that they, they have different processes and one is, one is deeper than the other, although, you know, the it depends on the poem, but there is, I try to create a structure and an environment to write.
00:39:23:10 – 00:39:45:05
John Dodds
Sometimes it’s real difficult at home because there’s so many things going on. You kind of feel guilty. And it goes back to this whole issue of the oh, you got you got plenty of time on others, haven’t you? Don’t you never do. There’s always something and anybody that’s working 24 seven at the moment, when they eventually, moved on to the next stage, they’ll go, how the hell did I ever work?
00:39:45:09 – 00:39:58:08
John Dodds
How did I ever get, you know. And so I think that you’re you’ll either be always busy or you will be always not busy. And it’s about you, really, rather than about the work or the, environment.
00:39:58:15 – 00:40:24:06
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Because I can turn around and look back to the last full time professional gig I had, which was more or less eight, eight, eight hours a day. And then I’d come home and I had a blog that was weekly, so it’s not that much, but 3 or 4 nights a week, I’d podcast till 12, one at 1 or 2 a.m., get up and do it all over again.
00:40:24:11 – 00:40:48:19
Agent Palmer
Yep. And I look back at that. For as busy as I am now with a child to raise, I look back at that and I go, how did I even do? How how is that I, I don’t know, arguably if I’m busier now, now, now or then, but I do look back and I go, I didn’t I don’t know how I pulled any of that off.
00:40:48:24 – 00:41:08:34
John Dodds
But you do. And that’s the other thing. You know, when you have a crisis in your life or if you have a, a deadline, you just prioritize. You find a way. Yeah, you find a way. You always do. And, you know, I think, quite honestly, I think women have, they do it better than men do.
00:41:08:34 – 00:41:43:29
John Dodds
I think they they used that. They just juggle things better. I think men, faff around too much. And I think that, we, we kind of overanalyze things, and, I just think that, I’ve got to be careful what I say here, but I do feel that, when I’ve seen. Well, I take my wife, for example, child, she just get stuff done, you know?
00:41:43:29 – 00:41:49:09
John Dodds
And, women have a wonderful ability to get stuff done.
00:41:49:09 – 00:41:52:14
Agent Palmer
It feels like they’re triage, part of the brain.
00:41:52:14 – 00:42:21:14
John Dodds
But they’re smart as well. They they get they get to the conclusion quicker. Yeah. They do. And, so, anyway, that’s a aside, but I think that, Yeah, I think this whole time thing is very important. My brother is an expert at timing. He’s really good. He focuses on the things that matter, and he’s not distracted by all the shiny objects or whatever.
00:42:21:14 – 00:42:28:53
John Dodds
He will come back to you in his time, and he’s just ruthlessly organized. And that gives it. That gives him space, I think.
00:42:28:53 – 00:42:56:46
Agent Palmer
I think the hard part for me is I don’t get distracted by the shiny things, but I am juggling more than one thing in my head. And for me, the hardest part has always been focusing on the task at hand. Despite the other three things I’m I’m I’m not currently doing now. Some of them, as I stated, need space.
00:42:56:51 – 00:43:22:28
Agent Palmer
I shouldn’t be thinking about them at all, but they’re still there. And I think that’s my my hardest part. It’s just like I’m because I can’t juggle more than one thing and I can focus. But occasionally you like, you know, you’re I sit down to read a book and then all of a sudden I have to reread two paragraphs because my brain went on a sabbatical talk, thinking about, like, a post I have to write.
00:43:22:28 – 00:43:46:54
John Dodds
That’s okay, that’s okay. That’s what jazz is for. You go and sit down and listen to jazz and it’ll they it’ll go off on a tangent and so do you. And that’s the essence. And you’re allowed to do that. And as long as you know you’re doing that and you bring yourself back, you’ve gone in a different direction and you’ve, you’ve come back to where you were, which is fine.
00:43:46:59 – 00:44:17:55
John Dodds
It’s everything isn’t homework. You know what? I listen to a lot of jazz at the upstairs, the Symphony hall in Allentown, which is just the most beautiful jazz. A lot of the times I go there and I just discover things about myself or an idea or whatever, because the musicians have gone in a direction, and I followed them, and I’ve taken a turning of where they are and sort of an idea or, an opportunity and, and that’s the essence of music.
00:44:17:55 – 00:44:24:42
John Dodds
That’s the essence of reading. And, that’s the joy because you’ve you’ve immersed yourself.
00:44:24:47 – 00:44:35:49
Agent Palmer
Okay. And, and I want to ask, were you always a jazz guy, like, from the beginning or did it was it a, progression or a transition, so to speak?
00:44:35:54 – 00:45:02:25
John Dodds
Yeah. I, I love all types of music. I really do. And although, I have a jazz show on my local radio station, WDI, which I love, there are people on that radio station who know a lot more about jazz than I do. But maybe they haven’t been to as many concerts as I have. Because I, I grew up going to jazz clubs in London, actually.
00:45:02:25 – 00:45:21:44
John Dodds
So buddy Rich, at, Ronnie Scott’s, which was an absolute. That was in the mid 70s, I think it was. And, I used to hang out at the 606 club in my teens as well. And for me, again, it was about the occasion. Okay. There are the people who know jazz. Very good friend of mine.
00:45:21:49 – 00:45:50:03
John Dodds
You know, he’ll always ask what you know. He played with him and he played with him. I don’t really care. What I know is I love the music and I love being a part of the music, and I love what it brings to me. But then I equally, I feel that way about Santana. And I remember when I left school, a guy said to me, probably some of the wisest advice I got at school was there, here are three albums that you need to buy.
00:45:50:08 – 00:46:25:19
John Dodds
One of them was Santana, one. One of them was Chicago Transit Authority. Okay. One of them was the Allman Brothers live at Fillmore East. And what has been amazing since I came to America was that I’ve actually seen all of those bands and actually met the Allman Brothers, and met a member of Chicago as well. And, so it was it’s like a dream come true because that kind of music, has been a huge part of me is as much as some of the jazz.
00:46:25:26 – 00:46:32:42
John Dodds
So, of course, you know, the Beatles, the stones, the who, the kinks, all of that. I kind of grew up with that.
00:46:32:47 – 00:46:48:47
Agent Palmer
So if if I were to put you on the spot, would you pass along the same three albums? Like, if if you ran into younger, you, would you pass along the same three albums or do you have three different albums to pass along?
00:46:48:52 – 00:47:06:00
John Dodds
Somebody asked me to go on WDI and give my top three albums, and not only did I refuse, but I had nightmares for days off because, the concept of whittling it down to three, I would feel very guilty about leaving someone out.
00:47:06:05 – 00:47:27:16
Agent Palmer
Okay. So let’s let’s, let’s ignore the content. Let’s talk about the quantity for a moment. Right. What’s the lowest number we’re not going to discuss? Well, what goes in it. What’s the lowest number you would be comfortable giving. Like like are we talking like it’s got to be at least 20. Like John can’t do anything less than 20.
00:47:27:16 – 00:47:28:45
Agent Palmer
Is it 25?
00:47:28:49 – 00:48:04:24
John Dodds
I think it’s I think 20 would probably be about it. I mean even ten is pushing it because I love so many subgenres. I mean, I love some of the early, 1970s caravan, soft machine, kind of, rock, Moody Blues kind of stuff that I love. Atomic Rooster. I love the psychedelic Electric Prunes, that two of those tracks, like Get Me to the world on Time and I Had Too Much a Dream last night was some of my favorite track, so I, The Lemon Pipers, Green Tambourine, the kind of the bop style of it, you know, even the monkey.
00:48:04:24 – 00:48:29:40
John Dodds
Some of the stuff that right the way through to Zeppelin’s Whole Lotta Love, which I told my kids in the car when it came on, you have to be quiet for seven minutes because you’re in school. This is this is the lesson, the music lesson. And, they they listened to the Whole Lotta Love. And to me, that that’s a seminal, seminal, music track.
00:48:29:45 – 00:48:49:06
John Dodds
It’s just everything. So Tommy actually heard a proper stereo as well. Was listening to that. I was in the chemistry lab at school, and the guys with the teacher let the guys bring in. Yeah, they had this special speaker. Might have been physics, maybe, I don’t know. But they played a whole lotta love on these enormous speakers. Blew my head away.
00:48:49:10 – 00:48:50:51
John Dodds
Couldn’t believe it. Couldn’t believe.
00:48:50:51 – 00:49:01:14
Agent Palmer
It. So we’ve we’ve narrowed your number down to 20. How long do you think it would take you to come up with the 25 years?
00:49:01:19 – 00:49:23:11
John Dodds
Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I would I have done a Spotify Top 100. I think somewhere. Okay. But it would be very genre specific. I would pick something out of something that represents something. I take a jazz track. I mean, jazz, I mean, I love Blue Note, but I also love fusion. I also love some of the stuff that Bob James does.
00:49:23:11 – 00:49:39:43
John Dodds
So I mean, I could do 20 jazz album. So it is about being ruthless and it’s like cleaning out your your clothes closet. Oh, I can’t get rid of that because, you know, I’ve had that for years. That t shirt I wore for this, you know.
00:49:39:48 – 00:50:01:52
Agent Palmer
All right, well, I didn’t, I, you know, I’m not putting you on the spot. I just wanted to know what the. Because I feel like, I mean, I could easily do 20. I don’t know that ten would be that hard. Five might be rough for me. I think to narrow it down to five would be rough, but, I kind of agree with you.
00:50:01:56 – 00:50:20:28
Agent Palmer
That might take a year. Like, it might take a solid for you get, you know, you have your off the top of your head list, and then you go through life and you go, oh, and that one and that one and that one. And then you finally just go, all right, so what do I have? And then you sit down, you go like, oh, this is a list of 100.
00:50:20:33 – 00:50:22:11
Agent Palmer
And I got to narrow it down.
00:50:22:16 – 00:50:49:36
John Dodds
But well I think the other thing is that the older you get, especially when you’ve had kids, their music bleeds into what now, whether they are favorite tracks or not is a different issue, but they are influences. You know, the punk, the new wave, the two tone with the the English beat and these kind of bands again, fantastic genres, you know, mirror in the bathroom by the English beat.
00:50:49:37 – 00:51:11:05
John Dodds
I mean, how could I leave that out, you know? And so, and then the kids, you know, my, my son was always into alternative stuff, and I ended up, going to, see a concert with him, to see The offspring at the age of 60. You know, I actually went down crowd surfing with him, and he was the one that wanted to get out first, actually.
00:51:11:10 – 00:51:41:52
John Dodds
But, so again, energy music. So. And I got my daughter with the music. She listens to. If I was to, if I was to choose a genre, apart from jazz, that I would say absolutely. I can listen to and do listen to all the time. It would be funk and soul. That the funk music, I would, you know, I’m want to manifest myself going back and having a, a gig with the Night Light.
00:51:42:02 – 00:51:50:23
John Dodds
The guys that play a lot of gigs in the Valley using only vinyl, and they play funk and, soul music. I want to be up there with them.
00:51:50:28 – 00:52:05:12
Agent Palmer
I think. I think that’s the when I. When I do my next journey, I need to include more funk and soul because it’s I like it, but it’s always like, oh, wait, I don’t listen to enough of this. But again.
00:52:05:17 – 00:52:27:03
John Dodds
I totally immerse myself in the weekends with with funk and soul. There’s a station called My Soul in London. That’s, on the web and on an app, and I and I’ve just have a ritual, listen to that from most of the day on Saturday and Sunday, because the music they play is just the music of my, of my, my time.
00:52:27:03 – 00:52:50:57
John Dodds
And when my wife and I first started going out, we went to 3 or 4 soul and jazz concerts a week. So those, you know, Jeffrey Osborne was our first date. And, so, so it’s embedded in you.
00:52:51:02 – 00:53:12:12
Agent Palmer
All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither. Deep roots are not reached by the frost. Okay, okay. John is in Strider. But the riddle of Strider from the Lord of the Rings The Fellowship of the ring. The first stanza of which I just recited does spring forth because of our conversation.
00:53:12:17 – 00:53:39:50
Agent Palmer
You can get lost in a book, in an album, and from that journey you can emerge with something new or something reimagined. John’s sharpened is based upon unearthing uniqueness, but that doesn’t always come from the surface. We have to dig deeper into art, into imagination, into ourselves. These conversations, and those that John has on his cafe, often help us to reveal to others as much as our selves new things.
00:53:39:55 – 00:54:05:24
Agent Palmer
It doesn’t have to be a wholly unique way of seeing something. Perhaps in retelling a story that you’ve told a thousand times, you change the order of two words or describe something with a synonym and the whole meaning changes. Or at least your perspective does. That’s kind of the whole thing about giving yourself space, giving yourself time. You can get lost and sometimes you are lost, but you can always be found.
00:54:05:29 – 00:54:26:09
Agent Palmer
Anyway, I’ll finish the riddle of Strider for you now. From the ashes a fire shall be woken. A light from the shadow shall spring renewed. Shall be blade that was broken. The crown. This again shall be king. Thanks for listening to the Palmer Files, episode 169. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays.
00:54:26:09 – 00:54:46:45
Agent Palmer
If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact John and myself in the show notes. You can find John’s corner of the internet at the sharp end.com, and easy links to the cafe podcast can be found at the sharp end.com/podcast. The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur.
00:54:46:46 – 00:55:05:45
Agent Palmer
Email and comments can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things. Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:55:05:50 – 00:55:38:34
Agent Palmer
You.
00:55:38:39 – 00:55:41:18
Agent Palmer
All right, John, do you have one final question for me?
00:55:41:23 – 00:56:00:52
John Dodds
I do, I have a piece of paper with a wild card. And is any job that you could possibly like to have. What shall I fill in for your application to be successful and do?
00:56:00:57 – 00:56:33:26
Agent Palmer
Okay. So I so I, I like this question already because I don’t have to be good at it. I can I can become good at this thing. I know at one point, it, it would have been, you know, like, a studio engineer slash owner where I would have a studio full on for music and or podcasting, and I just get to rent out time.
00:56:33:26 – 00:57:02:24
Agent Palmer
But I’d also be able to sit there and produce and be a part of the process. I don’t know that that kind of ebbs and flows based on, the projects I’m working on, how tough or hard they are. And I know that’s probably standard for everything else. And I really do, like consulting, in that probably this to in a similar vein to you were I just like helping people.
00:57:02:29 – 00:57:29:03
Agent Palmer
It’s just it’s fun to hear other ideas and go, well, I’ve talked to a few people like this. Might be able to help you. And I’m not I don’t I don’t know if it’s a shock to anyone, but, like, when my consulting is always suggestive. I never really give actual direction. Right. So that’s another, I guess option.
00:57:29:07 – 00:58:02:24
Agent Palmer
And then there’s always, you know, what would it be cool to just be Agent Palmer? Keep keep the podcast, keep the blog going, and just whatever else comes of it, comes of it. I don’t know that I could pick, between the three, although obviously if I owned my own studio, I wouldn’t stop doing the podcast. You know, the time for the blog may ebb and flow, but, I don’t I don’t know, I think may, may.
00:58:02:29 – 00:58:29:40
Agent Palmer
All right. So maybe it has to be straight up just being Agent Palmer because it feels like the most natural, thing for me. The hard part is, and the hardest part of it has always been selling it because, I’m the first person to tell you I don’t take any of the good advice that I give most of the time.
00:58:29:45 – 00:59:04:38
Agent Palmer
For the blog or the podcast, and that I and I, I’ll be the first the first thing you need, to be a successful blogger or podcaster, especially if you’re not already famous, is a theme or a niche. You need something cohesive, and I’ve always fought against that for one very important reason. I wouldn’t still be doing this if I had chosen a singular theme.
00:59:04:38 – 00:59:33:23
Agent Palmer
I wouldn’t still be writing if I chose a single. If I just reviewed movies, the blog would have died many, many, many, many years ago. If I just, as has been talked about on this show at some point, if I had just interviewed authors because it was the one thing I had relationship with authors through the blog and they’d find out I was involved in podcasting, but I wasn’t on any podcasts that were, you know, with readers.
00:59:33:28 – 01:00:09:18
Agent Palmer
And so it was like, well, you could just start a podcast and only talk to authors. I do love talking to authors. I don’t think this show survives 50 episodes. If I’m only talking to authors and so I, I think that if your wild card gives me the ability to continue to follow whatever my interest happens to be, I know you like we we sat on boards together, I think I met you, so I know you and I’m allowed to have you on my show.
01:00:09:22 – 01:00:26:49
Agent Palmer
But I’ve also met random strangers on the internet who seemed interesting, and I’ve had them on my show. And it’s not the, you know, I’m the. You know, this is why you need the celebrity if you’re going to do this and be quote unquote successful in it monetarily.
01:00:26:54 – 01:00:55:54
John Dodds
But I guess but I think what’s interesting, if you look at some like Steven Bartlett, who is extraordinarily successful, especially in the UK, he has a very broad range of guests. Tim Ferriss, a very broad range of guests. They say that they’re they’re not like marketing this or Abbott. They cover everything from medicine to fitness to mental health to, marketing to starting your own business.
01:00:55:59 – 01:01:31:55
John Dodds
And, they approach it in a slightly different way, and it’s like you and I, I, I’m not going to just do a marketing or a branding podcast, which I could easily do, and call all the branding people up and decide whether brand equity is more important or differentiation versus distinctiveness. And, it’s like, hello. So I think what I do, I do include marketers and branding people in the podcast, but I also include, people like Jason King Jones, who’s the Shakespeare Festival director.
01:01:31:55 – 01:02:01:30
John Dodds
And, so and they’ve got so much to say. Yeah. And the one of the other cool things that has evolved from an interview or a conversation I had with John Simmons was, he challenged me to write a poem earlier on. And so I challenged him to write one for the podcast, which he did. And now everybody that’s on the podcast has to create a poem, which we then go through, or piece of prose or, or just some basic writing.
01:02:01:35 – 01:02:09:55
John Dodds
And it’s true that discovery period that we really have a, a fascinating conversation and it isn’t a Q&A, it’s much more of a two way thing.
01:02:10:00 – 01:02:33:33
Agent Palmer
And I also think you could probably write me down on that wild card now, because we didn’t define success. And I think I don’t have to think I know this is successful because I don’t I’m not doing it for money. This is this is the and the same with the blog and reading all the books in my house, which more on that at some point.
01:02:33:33 – 01:02:53:58
Agent Palmer
I don’t know when that will be a thing, but I I’m curious. I want to know more and if this is the way through a conversation, through reading a book, through listening to an album I’ve not heard of or, you know, trying to, you know, I write about every book I read because it helps me process that book.
01:02:53:58 – 01:03:00:13
Agent Palmer
That’s just the way it is. If the blog went away, I’d probably still do it in some capacity because it helps.
01:03:00:17 – 01:03:02:13
John Dodds
Yep.
01:03:02:18 – 01:03:23:55
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, you could write this down. I mean, monetarily, it could, it could make some money. That would be great. But I, I don’t know, I always I’m and I’m always a little hesitant right, when it comes to money because does that change. You know I would need, you know, in.
01:03:24:00 – 01:03:34:04
John Dodds
So what would happen if someone offered you 50 grand to sponsor your podcast? What how would you what would you change? So you you don’t need to change anything. But I like what you’re doing. His 50 grand.
01:03:34:04 – 01:03:36:14
Agent Palmer
So this is where I.
01:03:36:19 – 01:03:38:16
John Dodds
I you do. What would you do differently.
01:03:38:16 – 01:04:08:22
Agent Palmer
I so there’s two things right? One, I wouldn’t do anything differently I hope. Right. But two you know, I do understand that money would change it a little bit and I, I, I, I have all the best intentions in the world. And if it’s 50 grand for, you know, a sponsorship, that’s a true sponsorship that we don’t, we don’t change anything.
01:04:08:27 – 01:04:36:46
Agent Palmer
You know, I would like to think that I could accept the money and not change anything, but I’m human, and there’s a chance, it would change it in some capacity. I know not how, but I. I would very much like to keep it as it is. I mean, I, I do think, you know, the other piece of advice I always give people do seasons don’t do an open ended show.
01:04:36:51 – 01:05:05:49
Agent Palmer
You know, this is, Let’s see. This is episode, if I, I hope I don’t mind putting myself on the spot. This should be episode 169. It’s been every two weeks for a for for double 169. Right. So, and I, I’m, I’m thankful I didn’t go weekly. Weekly. I would have burnt out long ago. I guess technically, I’m on season one.
01:05:05:54 – 01:05:16:14
Agent Palmer
A jokes have been, thrown at my expense with friends saying like, oh, when he gets to 1000, he’ll start season two and stuff like that, and it’s I will, you know, we’ll see.
01:05:16:14 – 01:05:39:35
John Dodds
But I think what you do have is a really good process. You have a, a very good visual appeal for the side. You have very clear identity for it. It looks good. Technically, it sounds good. Technically, and you’ve got longevity. And I think that, you know, that’s what I do know. And I haven’t been particularly good at it recently.
01:05:39:35 – 01:06:04:02
John Dodds
I need to do more is you’ve just got to promote it. You’ve got to take clips out of it. You’ve got to put it on YouTube. You’ve got to put it on social. You’ve just got to make people aware that something is happening here. And it’s worth digging into because, that’s the essence of advertising. It is about, communicating the value that, that you bring.
01:06:04:02 – 01:06:05:59
John Dodds
Otherwise you really are doing it for yourself.
01:06:06:10 – 01:06:42:53
Agent Palmer
Well, and and I’m very aware, not just from you and not just from, you know, every other blogger I’ve ever met, but every podcaster over every creative. It’s like, well, we could all get jackets made saying, we all know we could promote more. Yeah. And that’s just, you know, there is also an element of we like, I like there’s a certain creative aspect where we need separate marketers because I can easily sell your podcast to other people.
01:06:43:05 – 01:06:54:43
Agent Palmer
But when it comes to my own, I’m, I’ve got my process and the moment this is done, I’m on to the next right. And so it’s this. And I’m not saying I can’t close.
01:06:54:43 – 01:06:56:31
John Dodds
The cobbler’s kids have got no shoes.
01:06:56:36 – 01:07:19:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. And it’s very much also like and I know YouTube is a very different thing, but, you know, I, I follow a lot of creators on YouTube that are also fairly open with the grind got too much. So I pulled back and I’m, you know, I started the podcast after the blog. The blog was weekly. The blog has maintained weekly.
01:07:19:48 – 01:07:43:19
Agent Palmer
I didn’t want to give up the blog in order to do the podcast, which is how the podcast ended up being every other week instead of weekly. And I think, you know, back to our conversation about being lucky to keep the inserts from those seeds. Yep, I didn’t know. No, what I was really doing by saying this will be every other week.
01:07:43:23 – 01:07:46:45
Agent Palmer
But I got really lucky that past me did right.
01:07:46:45 – 01:07:52:32
John Dodds
But you’re a good writer. What would the concept of ghostwriting be for you?
01:07:52:37 – 01:08:17:52
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I have, I, I can tell you that, there were a couple short part time gigs where I did some, I guess, I guess somewhat ghostwriting where I would write a speech for someone and then they would make it their own. I never did it long enough to understand their language, so they always had to do some tweaks.
01:08:17:57 – 01:08:43:25
Agent Palmer
I’m not against it. But I’ve never, you know, the opportunity doesn’t arise very often. It’s, it’s very funny to me. As we record right now, in, late 20, 25, West Wing has come back on Netflix, and I own the I own the series on physical disk, but I tend to be a little bit lazy when it comes to physical disk stuff.
01:08:43:25 – 01:09:03:58
Agent Palmer
And so, if something’s on a streaming service, I’m. I have access to, I’m more likely to watch it than if it’s a physical disk in my house. And I only bring it up because I never wanted to be the president, and I never wanted to be the press secretary. So what’s the main characters that we’re talking about now?
01:09:04:02 – 01:09:30:31
Agent Palmer
You’re talking about a deputy chief of staff, because I didn’t want to be chief of staff. So a deputy chief of staff or I guess, or chief of staff or a communications director or, deputy communications director, and as things have gone along. Right. When I first watched the show, when I was a much younger man, I wanted to be the deputy communications director.
01:09:30:35 – 01:10:00:04
Agent Palmer
As I’ve gotten older, I think I just want to be the communications director. And and it’s it’s a weird shift because it’s not always just about like, obviously they’re very distinct characters. So it’s not like, oh, I’m but but when it comes to just looking at what the jobs do, I’m still amazed. I have a podcast I didn’t want to be, you know, this is, you know, using that while.
01:10:00:14 – 01:10:02:15
John Dodds
You may well, are you amazed because.
01:10:02:20 – 01:10:03:19
Agent Palmer
Using that is the one.
01:10:03:19 – 01:10:27:18
John Dodds
Thing, but the one thing that you have done and Ty has done this styled and brand of a solid verbal and I’ve done it with my show. I’m up to 145 jazz shows now, with, WDI. Well, and I have I’m nowhere near as much as my colleagues who probably got double and triple that amount. But it’s a because you love it and B because you stick at it.
01:10:27:23 – 01:10:39:59
John Dodds
And I think that’s an important. So in there is maybe somewhere about exactly why you should be Agent Palmer. Because you stick at it because you love it and because it gives you pleasure.
01:10:40:04 – 01:11:01:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah. That’s probably yeah. I just say I’m amazed because this is the press secretary thing. This is the out front. You can hear my voice, as opposed to being the communications director and having the press secretary go out there and say it, or being the speechwriter and having the president go out and say it. And so that’s that’s the amazing part.
01:11:01:11 – 01:11:24:14
Agent Palmer
Now that I’m here, you know, after, you know, being behind the scenes before. Yeah, I can’t think of giving it up, but I, I still think back. I can still I could still argue with myself in my own brain about like, maybe I should just keep helping other people tell their stories. And.
01:11:24:14 – 01:11:47:21
John Dodds
I could do that. You could do that anyway. And that’s the point, I know it, okay? It is about time balance. I’m helping organizations, find their uniqueness. And then I do the podcast as well. And so I don’t think it’s an either or. It’s and, and and then you just, set yourself realistic deadlines about what you can achieve.
01:11:47:26 – 01:12:10:20
John Dodds
But if you have, a gift for helping people, especially nonprofits who need it more than ever, then, then you should follow that. But I do think at the end of the day and I, I say this, to the kids, they found their way and they, they’re finding out what, what they want to do. But you’ve got to follow your passion.
01:12:10:25 – 01:12:45:17
John Dodds
And the other thing I say to people in organizations, and it doesn’t matter if you’re 30, it doesn’t matter if you’re 40. It doesn’t matter if you’re 50, doesn’t matter if you’re 60. Have a plan because someone’s going to knock on your door and say, hey, look, we’re going to going in a different direction here. I’m afraid we’re going to have to let you go or we are folding the company or we’re moving to to India, or we’re moving to, you know, Alaska or something.
01:12:45:22 – 01:13:30:30
John Dodds
And so a circumstance radically changes. And I’ve always said to people, I never understand why people get surprised when they hear news, because you really need to be your own issues manager. You need to be aware of the circumstances around you. Understand what your company, your organization, your nonprofit is doing, and understanding your options. And it’s really important to write them down and with your, you know, your partner, if you’ve got one to to have a plan for the next stage and therefore you don’t get upset, you don’t get disappointed, you absorb your learning and you move on.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).