Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Other Links
Tales Before Tolkien confirmed my love for more modern fantasy
Looking Through the Digital Library: A to Z Bands
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:05 – 00:00:21:20
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent palmer.com Tales before talking confirmed my love for more modern fantasy. Looking through the digital library and A to Z list of bands and how continues to write right? Right. So we’ll have to keep tabs on him in the future. This is The Palmer Files episode 147 with Mark Bogner of Tangent Bound the Podcast. The Podcast Network and now Media Network.
00:00:21:29 – 00:01:05:44
Agent Palmer
We discussed the origin of all three, as well as our similar paths to podcast listening, plus collaboration, momentum, DVD extras, mistakes, laughter, and plenty of, you guessed it, tangents. All aboard! Let’s get tangent bound.
00:01:05:48 – 00:01:31:38
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to the Vollmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 147th episode is Mark Bogner. He started the tangent Bound podcast, which then became the Tangent Bound Podcast Network and is now the Tangent Bound Media Network. I’ve known Mark tangentially since connecting with him years ago because of his podcast network and the fact that more than a few of the independent podcast I was listening to were all on his network.
00:01:31:47 – 00:01:51:20
Agent Palmer
So fast forward to now. I wanted to know about Mark’s future and his origins, which is what you’ll hear along with more than a few tangents and plenty of laughter. This is a fun one, but before we get into it, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen to afterwards, you can find all related ways to contact Mark and myself in the show notes.
00:01:51:29 – 00:02:10:35
Agent Palmer
You can visit Tangent Bound network.com to see what Mark’s been working on. And don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Adrian palmer.com. And of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get tangible. All aboard!
00:02:10:40 – 00:02:40:15
Agent Palmer
Mark, I know you. First and foremost, as the, proprietor owner of the everything guy for the Tangent Bound podcast network. Right. And which is now no longer just a podcast network, but I think you might have been one of the first podcast networks I was ever aware of, because you the shows I was listening to at the time were on your network.
00:02:40:20 – 00:03:01:58
Agent Palmer
Look, I’ll be honest, when we’re around the same age, when I grew up, I didn’t think I would have a podcast. And I’m pretty sure you didn’t grow up going, like, I’m going to start a podcast network. But you did. And I just want to know what was the like. Why? Why were you like, I think I want to do a network.
00:03:01:58 – 00:03:09:00
Agent Palmer
I don’t want just want to do a show. I want to go one step further because I’m that crazy.
00:03:09:04 – 00:03:12:13
Mark Bogner
To tell you that story. I’ve got to tell you another story.
00:03:12:13 – 00:03:14:52
Agent Palmer
Okay? All right. I’m here for it.
00:03:14:57 – 00:03:35:36
Mark Bogner
Okay, cool. So the inspiration started. What? I worked for this one company where I was a programmer for a handful of years, at this company. And when I was programing and in the zone, I’d listen to audio books.
00:03:35:39 – 00:03:36:01
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:03:36:01 – 00:03:58:28
Mark Bogner
And stuff like that, so. Okay, cool. Then I kind of ran out of audio books and I’m like, okay, what can I listen to? And a friend of mine suggested, hey, you should start listening to podcasts, especially this one here. This one, it’s basically it’s it’s an audio book, but it’s a podcast, okay. And they, they throw out episodes which are chapters every week like okay cool.
00:03:58:33 – 00:04:13:04
Mark Bogner
So I started, listening to that, I’m like, oh, this is even cooler. You know, I finished up with that one and I’m like, okay, what can I listen to next? So I started surfing on my phone for podcasts to listen to, and I came across Kevin Smith.
00:04:13:09 – 00:04:14:05
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:04:14:10 – 00:04:15:59
Mark Bogner
And
00:04:16:03 – 00:04:18:19
Agent Palmer
Which one? I guess.
00:04:18:24 – 00:04:19:52
Mark Bogner
Jay. Silent Bob Grohl.
00:04:19:59 – 00:04:20:43
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:04:20:47 – 00:04:30:54
Mark Bogner
All right. And then from there, it kind of spawned into some of the other ones that he had, including Babylon and so on and so forth. So but, and the one that he did with his wife.
00:04:30:59 – 00:04:41:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that was short lived, but I like that one, too, because my, my first was podcast, like, I think I started with the original and then kind of branched out from there.
00:04:41:23 – 00:05:04:29
Mark Bogner
Right? Yeah. That’s that’s the one he did with, Mosher. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So anyway, I, I got into listening to Jay and Silent Bob grow old because, well, I love Jay and Silent Bob, but, Kevin said in his words, anybody can have a podcast. All you need is something to talk about, in a way, to record your voice, in a way to put it out there.
00:05:04:31 – 00:05:05:48
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s true.
00:05:05:52 – 00:05:27:22
Mark Bogner
Then at that point I was like, okay. Because at that time I was also listening to like the Nerdist, at that time with, with, Chris Hardwick. So I went through that. I was like, okay, this is kind of fun. And then, when I heard Kevin say, anybody can have a podcast. What? Really? Okay.
00:05:27:27 – 00:05:28:32
Agent Palmer
00:05:28:37 – 00:05:49:52
Mark Bogner
That’s cool. So my former coworker and I started the Tangent Bone podcast, and, he went away and my I ended up asking my best friend to join me on the show, and that was, you know, years ago. It’s been a while since we’ve done anything podcasting, but we’re going to be bringing you back, which spoiler alert.
00:05:49:57 – 00:05:50:53
Agent Palmer
That’s exciting.
00:05:50:58 – 00:06:14:46
Mark Bogner
Yeah. But, so I’m like, oh, this is this is really fun. This is cool. Great. And then I started working with, Zach from the podcast network. He was on Blood cast, and then he had, just Zach. And we started doing a show called The Two for podcast. Like, okay, this this is kind of neat. So he had the Blood Cast network.
00:06:14:46 – 00:06:43:00
Mark Bogner
I’m like, okay, awesome. I want to network too. Okay. So I, I figured out how to get people, started and how to, basically hand them the keys to the kingdom and how to run their own podcast, how to monetize, how to do all this other stuff. And then we started this whole cross-promotion thing between podcast to say, I’ll promote you if you promote me or whatever.
00:06:43:00 – 00:06:55:32
Mark Bogner
And we mention each other, give shout outs, and that’s where the whole foundation for the network came as well. We would, you know, support each other and that we would truly network with one another.
00:06:55:37 – 00:07:23:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So this is where I first hear about tangible fun, because I think a few of the podcasts I was listening to were not only promoting the network, which I think was smart of you to do. Is it what he’s skipping over a little bit is that you were cross promoting other podcasts in the network, but you were also within those reads was also a tangent bound network tag of some kind, because that was the the thing I kept hearing.
00:07:23:11 – 00:07:38:30
Agent Palmer
And around this time that I’m hearing this as a listener, still not I might have been starting to get behind the scenes of seven days a week at this point. Maybe. Yeah. But.
00:07:38:36 – 00:07:39:06
Mark Bogner
I love this.
00:07:39:06 – 00:08:12:46
Agent Palmer
Guys, this is this is kind of like right before then or maybe right after. So I am, just a super fan of quite a few shows and like, there’s a, there’s there’s a I have The Notebook somewhere where I started contemplating starting a podcast network only because I was doing the promotion for like seven different shows by live tweeting seven different shows.
00:08:12:46 – 00:08:30:00
Agent Palmer
And, and I don’t know if I had talked to you in like, DMs or like we Skyped or something, but I know at one point you had told me I think I remember that you told me, well, you’re already doing like part of what networks do in lifting these shows.
00:08:30:05 – 00:08:30:43
Mark Bogner
Exactly.
00:08:30:43 – 00:08:33:53
Agent Palmer
I never went further. It only got like it only.
00:08:33:53 – 00:08:34:37
Agent Palmer
00:08:34:42 – 00:08:54:56
Agent Palmer
It was only on paper of like, these are the shows that I listen to and live tweet and basically give free promotion to every time they put out an episode and it’s to skip to the end. I’m, I didn’t have a show at that time, so I would have definitely been part of the network had I launched it.
00:08:54:56 – 00:09:22:56
Agent Palmer
But I’m the only show left. I’m the only show remaining from all those ones. I used to live tweet. And so I think as one by one they fell by the wayside. I was like, all right, I think I’m, I don’t know, like as friend, as a friend of those shows. By the time they shuttered, I was like, are you guys sure you want to do like you have, you know, like but as, like a network guy, I would have been like, no, well, there goes my network, you know, to start all over again.
00:09:23:01 – 00:09:55:45
Mark Bogner
There are only a few handful of active podcasters left on the network. You know, we had at one point over 200 different shows. We were actually nominated for Fastest Growing Podcast Network or Indie Podcast Network. So that was really something, we had actually, I set out actually to just, you know, help people along, help them get their podcast, go and get it started, giving them the momentum that they needed.
00:09:55:50 – 00:10:19:54
Mark Bogner
And, you know, then it just became one big conglomeration of podcasts. And we started shouting out to each other, tweeting at each other, showing out inside jokes back and forth on social media, getting other people curious so that, what does that mean? I should listen to that show? Yeah. And we would do that on purpose, especially with, you know, like dark angels and pretty freaks.
00:10:20:08 – 00:10:22:16
Mark Bogner
Yeah. I don’t know if you listened to that one.
00:10:22:16 – 00:10:48:21
Agent Palmer
Yes I did, yeah. Kneeling on a leash were like, I think they were behind the scenes. On a personal level, they were in that group of podcasters that became friends that didn’t put pressure on Agent Palmer to start a podcast, but were heavily, suggestive that Palmer finally start a podcast.
00:10:48:25 – 00:10:54:59
Mark Bogner
Right. So, and, they’re very convincing, you know what I mean?
00:10:55:06 – 00:10:56:32
Agent Palmer
They are.
00:10:56:36 – 00:11:22:14
Mark Bogner
I had them on my show. We did it on a Saturday morning. And we had a blast. And we threw out some, inside jokes from some of their previous episodes and things like that. And we created our own just so that when we tweeted it to one another, you know, other people would get intrigued. It was like, well, what is that?
00:11:22:14 – 00:11:49:48
Mark Bogner
That sounds funny. What is that? So they listen to the show or whatever. So that was just one of the miscellaneous ways that we could actually, keep the network going and getting more audience base for most of these people. I did the same thing with Zach for broadcast because, we would go back and forth on Twitter a lot, and sometimes I would go back and forth with his girlfriend, his wife.
00:11:49:48 – 00:11:53:49
Mark Bogner
Now, because she had her own show for a little while.
00:11:53:49 – 00:11:54:36
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:11:54:41 – 00:12:18:42
Mark Bogner
And, you know, we’d throw little segments out to one another and, you know, it was just that social media interaction that helped gain the momentum because at the time, I would and this is funny to say, because I would tweet it as tangent bound, but then I would tweeted retweet it as myself.
00:12:18:42 – 00:12:40:20
Agent Palmer
Okay. So I can so I was definitely just Agent Palmer at that time, but I did have 1 or 2 burner accounts that I don’t know if anybody ever really found out about. Like there were a couple where, because right at the height before, kind of some of these shows started to disintegrate, like, like a Thanos snap.
00:12:40:25 – 00:13:02:49
Agent Palmer
They were all getting, on mixer. Mixer was a huge for the live part. And I had a burner account on mixer that I wouldn’t use often because it felt like a crutch, almost. But like, there were times when I wanted to stir something and I still have like. And I created the the Twitter account to go with it.
00:13:02:49 – 00:13:16:58
Agent Palmer
The email account. Like, just so like it wasn’t just me. And I think there’s only one podcaster from that time that knew that that like caught on, that it was me.
00:13:17:03 – 00:13:41:41
Mark Bogner
See, this is the best part, because those who knew me and knew, you know, to distinguish myself from the network, you know, and that they knew, okay, your Mark Bogner. Okay. That that that’s you. But then they did a lot of people didn’t make that correlation between tangent bound and Mark Bogdanor. So I would go back and forth with myself, to help spark that interest.
00:13:41:41 – 00:13:50:00
Mark Bogner
And then the people that did know me would chime in. It’s like, wow, what a conversation you’re having. You know, things, things like that. But, but.
00:13:50:08 – 00:14:15:58
Agent Palmer
But it all works because tweet it with if they get interested in a show, you have those tags and those cross promos and it’s that full on marketing rising Tide, because you know, yeah, not look at your height. Not every to not every one of the 200 shows is going to be for everyone. But like enough of them that like you might get one listener to be a listener of five of your shows.
00:14:15:58 – 00:14:16:16
Agent Palmer
Right.
00:14:16:16 – 00:14:19:24
Mark Bogner
And so and that was the whole point.
00:14:19:28 – 00:14:47:30
Agent Palmer
All right. So but as we sit here in, spring 2025, you are a media network. And, as you’ve already said, you haven’t done that much podcasting recently. I, I, I have to ask that this is obviously a shift, but was this the plan all along, or did this just kind of evolve?
00:14:47:31 – 00:15:20:11
Mark Bogner
A little bit of both, actually. Yeah. One of the things that I wanted to do for, the network was I wanted to give podcasters a home elsewhere and buy a home. I mean, this would be a whole social media of podcasters. So not only could they post about it here, they could, host their files there and release their episodes there.
00:15:20:11 – 00:15:46:45
Mark Bogner
And I was working on creating RSS feeds for people because like I said before, I was a programmer for the longest time, and I actually, with the help of, Zach from blogcast, we created something called the pod. Saw him, or some people would say pod sort. Okay, so this was one of those places where podcasters would be able to go and have a place to belong.
00:15:46:50 – 00:16:14:01
Mark Bogner
So with that, we decided, okay, so let’s take it one step further. So this is a place where they can share their episodes. It’s a place where they can talk to one another, comment on their episodes, why don’t we make it a hosting platform and people can have an RSS feed that would feed into, you know, wherever your podcasts are being listened to, whether it was satchel, Podcast Player or Apple Podcasts or wherever, wherever you had it.
00:16:14:08 – 00:16:41:39
Mark Bogner
Yeah. And so I started writing that, and that ended up falling to the wayside because it was going to cost more money to do the hosting than, we could afford at the time. So we kind of stopped. But before we did that, we started thinking, okay, so pod sauce and let’s see, what else could we do with this if we’re going to be hosting things, let’s let’s see if we can make this multi-media.
00:16:41:48 – 00:17:02:32
Mark Bogner
Let musicians in on this, let them host their music like SoundCloud or if they wanted to host their music videos like YouTube. But this would be here on our platform instead. And I had all that code laid out, but I didn’t have a server to put it on, nor did I have the ability to fund the storage that was needed for that.
00:17:02:32 – 00:17:41:21
Mark Bogner
So it was starting to like, get bigger than we could handle at the time. So that fell by the wayside and we were going to, you know, start extending. Oh, well, if we’re hosting videos, why not? Let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s have amateur filmmakers, okay. Or things like that, you know, so we started down that path and again, it got way too expensive and we just kind of curbed it off to the side and, you know, it, it was just something that never grabbed a hold.
00:17:41:21 – 00:17:56:58
Mark Bogner
So I think with Tangible Media Network, we’re going to be doing a lot more of that stuff, but more, like a television station, if you will.
00:17:57:03 – 00:18:02:13
Agent Palmer
A little bit more production, a little less, back end, maybe.
00:18:02:18 – 00:18:04:02
Mark Bogner
Well, we’re still going to have a little bit of back end.
00:18:04:02 – 00:18:04:55
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:18:05:00 – 00:18:33:02
Mark Bogner
So right now one of the things we’re focusing on is there are three shows for actually that we want to film and bring out to the masses. And one of the things that we’re also doing with these three shows is we’re creating our own smart TV app. Okay, so you could download it onto your television or your Roku device or whatever, Amazon Firestick, whatever.
00:18:33:07 – 00:18:39:21
Mark Bogner
We’ve got this app. We’re working on putting it together so that we can stream our stuff.
00:18:39:26 – 00:18:40:20
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:18:40:25 – 00:19:07:30
Mark Bogner
And the cool thing is, is like, like I said, I’ve got four TV shows that I want to get started filming. I’ve got other friends who want to do shows, interview shows like this or Larry King style type shows. I’ve got a cooking show in the works. I’ve got, a trivia game show in the works. I’ve got,
00:19:07:34 – 00:19:15:44
Mark Bogner
I’ve got a sci fi, series that I want to do. It’s more kind of like something you’d find on WB.
00:19:15:56 – 00:19:36:36
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. So so here’s the real question then. Right. Like we know we know that you have to be some kind of creative mind in order to handle the back end of any of these things. But we also know you have to have a technical mind. You are a programmer, and you worked on the back end for these things, and you have some kind of a marketing mind.
00:19:36:40 – 00:19:55:05
Agent Palmer
But I want to go back because obviously, at one point you were a career programmer. What did you want to be like when you were a kid? Like, did you did like what? Like obviously you ended up in technology, but how where does all of this stuff, how did I get.
00:19:55:05 – 00:19:56:11
Mark Bogner
From one to the other?
00:19:56:11 – 00:20:21:04
Agent Palmer
Yeah, because none of like, I know, maybe it’s because of this show, because I, you know, people, you know, ask, you know, I asked a question and they fire back on me. So I’ve talked about it for 100 plus, you know, I know that like when you go back and 14 year old me has a Tascam Porter studio and I’m helping record bands like, it’s not a surprise.
00:20:21:04 – 00:20:41:13
Agent Palmer
I ended up with a microphone and comfortable in audio, you know what I mean? Like, none of that stuff is surprising, but I can draw that line. But like, right now you are you have. Yeah, it’s there’s so much, Mark, I mean, where do we go back where how far I feel.
00:20:41:17 – 00:21:06:27
Mark Bogner
I have always had a penchant for wanting to entertain people or having that ability to entertain people. So as even as a child, I had no problems getting up on stage and making a fool of myself. I, you know, from a very young age, I was always on, on stage. Okay. So like, I was in a lot of the school plays and stuff like that throughout high school.
00:21:06:32 – 00:21:30:46
Mark Bogner
While I did do sports, I also did drama club. So that was kind of my rush, if you will, at the time. So, you know, there were people that decided they wanted to do, you know, sports or racing or drugs or skydiving, whatever gave them that rush me, put me on stage under the lights. I was happy, that was my rush.
00:21:30:46 – 00:21:50:23
Mark Bogner
That was my, that was my drug of choice. Okay? That that gave me such an adrenaline rush to be up on stage and to be somebody else, which that’s a whole nother story as well, because that was kind of my escape from reality is to become somebody else. You know, I got.
00:21:50:28 – 00:21:51:20
Agent Palmer
But,
00:21:51:25 – 00:22:19:14
Mark Bogner
But I spent all my time watching television and movies, and then I started learning behind the scenes stuff. You know, that whole aspect of, oh, how do they do that? How do they do that? You know, and in 2008, I can tell you, I did my very first video. Well, I mean, I’ve always been playing with video and stuff like that, but I did my very first special effects video.
00:22:19:19 – 00:22:20:10
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:22:20:15 – 00:22:49:23
Mark Bogner
Testing the waters, and it was me and my daughter filmed out in our backyard. Got a tree line that butts up to, like, a farmer’s field. So I had her kind of do this sneaking motion like she’s running towards or away from danger or whatever. And, as she’s running, I throw special effect gun shots and sound effects and little dirt hits.
00:22:49:23 – 00:23:08:46
Mark Bogner
So it looks like it’s hitting the ground behind her feet. Yep. And then one that hits right in front of her where she stops. She turns around and throws a fireball out. Okay. And she runs away. That was the first, test, if you will, just it’s just a CS 2008.
00:23:08:46 – 00:23:12:08
Agent Palmer
So this is in what.
00:23:12:13 – 00:23:18:35
Mark Bogner
At this point, it was, early After Effects, like six.
00:23:18:40 – 00:23:20:39
Agent Palmer
Three. Okay.
00:23:20:44 – 00:23:51:58
Mark Bogner
So Adobe After Effects, for those that are not familiar with it, is a compositing software where people are able to put a special effects and motion graphics together and, you know, they can create all the wonderful special effects that you see in movies, movie magic. Long story short, that started it off because I wanted to see because my true goal was because I wanted to make lightsabers and I wanted to have a lightsaber battle.
00:23:51:58 – 00:23:56:35
Mark Bogner
Okay, so, after that, I’m like, okay, I can do this.
00:23:56:35 – 00:24:00:03
Agent Palmer
After effects has gotten much better since then. It really.
00:24:00:03 – 00:24:21:20
Mark Bogner
Has. And I still play with it in fact, I don’t know if you followed my YouTube channel or anything. I’ve I’ve thrown little demo videos out of special effects things that I’ve been working on. Just just to see if I can do it tests. And anyway, I’m like, all right, cool. I want to film a Star Wars fan film, okay, with lightsaber battles.
00:24:21:25 – 00:24:38:02
Mark Bogner
So I did all the filming and then I’m like, I got all these people who were like, oh, I want to be in it. I want to be a part of it. I want to do this. I’ll help you edit. I’ll help you do this. I’ll help you do that. After filming, they all abandoned me, so I didn’t get a chance to finish ever editing this fan film.
00:24:38:07 – 00:24:45:15
Agent Palmer
Who wrote it? I did. Okay, okay. So, all right, was the writing there all along as well?
00:24:45:20 – 00:25:03:16
Mark Bogner
I’m a very creative writer. In fact, I self-published a few books. I’ve since took them off the market, and I’m looking to redo, one of them and rerelease it. But I’ve always had that, knack for writing. And then one day on the internet, I looked up how to format a script.
00:25:03:28 – 00:25:04:23
Agent Palmer
Okay?
00:25:04:27 – 00:25:08:27
Mark Bogner
And I’m like, oh, this is easy. Let’s let’s have a little bit of fun with this, you know?
00:25:08:27 – 00:25:12:23
Agent Palmer
So, you go, you go, you go to college.
00:25:12:28 – 00:25:13:27
Mark Bogner
I’ve had some college.
00:25:13:39 – 00:25:24:11
Agent Palmer
Okay. So you ended up in programing when you did some college, what was your age like? What were you majoring in the.
00:25:24:11 – 00:25:38:34
Mark Bogner
At first it was theater okay. Production. All right. So that was that was the first time I went to school. But then I had to come home because I needed the money and everything like that. Long story short, there were no lot of children involved.
00:25:38:39 – 00:25:38:58
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:25:39:03 – 00:25:43:54
Mark Bogner
But, no thanks. I came home because I needed the money and everything like that. So the.
00:25:43:54 – 00:25:47:39
Agent Palmer
Second time you go to school is for what.
00:25:47:44 – 00:25:49:54
Mark Bogner
Business? And a little bit of programing.
00:25:49:59 – 00:25:54:25
Agent Palmer
Okay. And is that what sets you into the field of programing?
00:25:54:25 – 00:26:21:50
Mark Bogner
Yeah. My friend got me looking at HTML, the wonderful basis for web pages. Yeah. You know, the basic building blocks and I started looking at I’m like, okay, well, this is actually kind of neat. I can do this. This is fun. And then, because I needed money, I needed a job. So I started taking other classes to expand my knowledge of programing and building sites and applications and things like that.
00:26:21:50 – 00:26:38:56
Mark Bogner
So that one thing turned into another. And then I became a programmer for however many years since, I think this is going to date me and how old I am. 1999. What was when I started becoming a programmer?
00:26:39:01 – 00:26:47:44
Agent Palmer
I mean, look, I, I started becoming a programmer, five years later, probably with the same skill set. So like.
00:26:47:49 – 00:26:48:54
Agent Palmer
00:26:48:58 – 00:26:53:30
Agent Palmer
Just starting with just HTML and going from there.
00:26:53:35 – 00:27:20:35
Mark Bogner
Well, yeah, because after the HTML, I started looking at VB.Net and then oo vb dot net. That’s awesome. Oh, what is this? This is C sharp. Oh my gosh I like C sharp. Holy crap. And then from C sharp it was like what is this PHP stuff. Oh wow. What is you know so I started going into getting into learning all of this stuff and for the longest time that was what I did was I was a programmer.
00:27:20:40 – 00:27:56:56
Agent Palmer
Okay. So I, I want to I want to say this. All right, I have this habit of helping people, whether they want it or not sometimes. But I have this habit of helping people. And I think that, you and I are similar in that we like to do things, for ourself, but there’s nothing quite like collaboration, which, if I’m being honest with myself, I am mostly helping people selfishly because I enjoy the collaboration.
00:27:56:58 – 00:27:59:18
Mark Bogner
Oh, I get that, and I absolutely get that, and.
00:27:59:18 – 00:28:24:11
Agent Palmer
I, I have this a ten. It used to be a lot worse. Okay. When, when we talk about when we go back in this conversation to the nine shows, I was live tweeting, that’s when I was probably stretched my most thin. Right? And I learned to say no. Since then, but I’ve always been like, all right, what can I do?
00:28:24:11 – 00:28:41:05
Agent Palmer
And how can I make it bigger? And how can I involve other people? Yes. I think only now, in retrospect, looking back, I can go like, oh, I wanted the collaboration because everything else I ever started and finished was solo. And those are great because they’re not as fun.
00:28:41:17 – 00:28:44:17
Mark Bogner
Yes. That exactly all day long.
00:28:44:17 – 00:29:01:37
Agent Palmer
That okay. So I mean, the stuff you’re doing going forward with the media Network, this is all in the name of fun and collaboration. I mean, you’re hoping to make money too, but like, I mean, if it breaks even and you have fun.
00:29:01:37 – 00:29:31:29
Mark Bogner
Like it’s right now, the network is not anything that is self-sufficient. I’m still I still have my day job. You know, I still have to have an income. This is just something as with when it was just, podcasting was a wonderful hobby. But now it’s an actual legal entity in hopes of taking it into that, monetization that, that, that scale of things.
00:29:31:29 – 00:30:04:08
Mark Bogner
So with that, I’m offering services to clients and things like that. Like one of the services I do that I found that was very fun when it was a podcast network was voiceover work. So like doing bumpers for people, they’re little ads for their shows or, you know, getting that gritty voice that says, you’re listening to Agent Palmer, you know, that’s just one of the things that I enjoy doing is to the point where now I offer it as a service to clients.
00:30:04:17 – 00:30:18:22
Mark Bogner
Yeah. And I can make money on it. I’ve. I’ve done an audiobook for a friend, you know, and that included different voices, things like that. Still in the process of editing it, but it’s pretty cool.
00:30:18:22 – 00:30:47:19
Agent Palmer
That’s, I mean, I, I’ve done there are solo episodes upcoming like they’re in there planned, but like every solo episode I do takes exponentially longer than these episodes people are listening to right now. And it’s because I don’t know where you fall in this spectrum because you and I are on the way the same wavelength a lot of the time.
00:30:47:24 – 00:31:19:32
Agent Palmer
But I don’t need it to be perfect. But I feel like I can always do better. And so, yeah, not, you know, okay, there’s four good takes. It’s time to move on like an I think I think it’s age that helps you go, oh right. I’ve got four. One of them will be fine. But like earlier on in this podcast, some that the the earliest solo episode, it’s like, all right, I’m just going to.
00:31:19:36 – 00:31:49:27
Mark Bogner
Start to do a solo episode when, you know, I, I used to make note cards for myself, things that I wanted to talk about. When I did my first solo episode of the Tannenbaum podcast, I called it Into the Darkness. So I mean, I would go talk about things that are new in my life and then, you know, I’d make little notes, things that are stuff that I would want to talk about, but I would get halfway through my note cards would be like, oh, no, that screwed up.
00:31:49:27 – 00:32:02:28
Mark Bogner
So I’d have to go back and do another take on that and then try to splice that together with the and it just, you know, it took longer way longer to your point. Yeah. So yeah I totally get it.
00:32:02:32 – 00:32:16:43
Agent Palmer
All right. And I I’m I’m I’m going to I’m going to, I’m going to pull the spotlight. So, so Mark has a fancy studio and he has fancy equipment and that’s not what he’s using. This recording.
00:32:16:48 – 00:32:20:26
Agent Palmer
00:32:20:31 – 00:32:36:14
Agent Palmer
And and I, I, I’m, I’m assuming it doesn’t sound like I’m fairly good at post-production, so I don’t know how good it sounds that I just outed you. I might have been able to fix that, and nobody would know until now.
00:32:36:19 – 00:32:42:08
Mark Bogner
But you know what? It is, what it is, and I. If you’re going to help me, you’re going to help me, and I’m going to be okay with it, because.
00:32:42:13 – 00:32:49:49
Agent Palmer
I look, first of all, I still don’t know how long how it took me this long to invite you on.
00:32:49:54 – 00:32:51:39
Mark Bogner
You know, so my bad.
00:32:51:44 – 00:32:53:32
Agent Palmer
00:32:53:36 – 00:32:54:54
Mark Bogner
So that’s what you get. You get a.
00:32:54:54 – 00:33:31:21
Agent Palmer
Headset. Okay. All right. That’s that’s that’s fine. That’s fine. I mean, I, I did want to ask, though, like, when I remember, my gateway to podcasting was similar to yours. It was, you know, Kevin Smith, it was Nerdist, it was Maron. It was. It was at the time they were the bigger, shows. And then you kind of run out of those and go into finding your independents and your seven days of geeks and your dark angels, and for you like that, it I don’t mind the big boys being the gateway.
00:33:31:26 – 00:33:53:56
Agent Palmer
I feel like it’s kind of like, reading Lord of the rings as, like, your gateway into fantasy. There’s other fantasy out there, and if you like it enough, you’ll figure out what else there is. So I want to know, like, what was it like that led you down to these other shows? Because I know, I, I’m going to out myself here.
00:33:53:56 – 00:34:18:51
Agent Palmer
Like, for me, I legitimately so I mean, the blog has endured for decades now. It feels like, and it, my tagline on the blog is of all things geek and so after Nerdist, SmartCast, and Maron, I just typed in Geek and Nerd into the podcast app. I don’t even remember which one I was using at the time.
00:34:19:03 – 00:34:23:02
Agent Palmer
And that’s how I got seven Days a Geek and other shows.
00:34:23:13 – 00:34:51:29
Mark Bogner
Okay, so I found mine through Twitter of all things. Okay, so like I would be following different podcasts or whatever and from that other podcasters would find me and we’d go back and forth and it’d be like, oh, okay, well, this is your show. Oh, you’re also following, these people or this group of people and like, I’ve met so many awesome people through podcasting.
00:34:51:29 – 00:35:04:30
Mark Bogner
I mean, yourself included, because I love one. Yes, I’ve, I’ve listened to you quite a few times. I’m actually so far behind right now. But on on a lot of things, literally because I haven’t.
00:35:04:35 – 00:35:30:53
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s why we can. If you want, we can dive into how hard it is to create and consume. Right. Because that’s yes, that’s it’s I think people forget that in the act of creation, it’s really hard to also, like have the attention to really, consume something. Yeah.
00:35:31:08 – 00:35:51:41
Mark Bogner
You know, it’s almost like you can call it what you want, but it’s almost like in the podcasters Bible, you know, creation. And then consumption. So you can go through this whole, list of, of, of different, stories or in this case, it would be parables.
00:35:51:41 – 00:35:52:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:35:52:12 – 00:36:04:48
Mark Bogner
To, you know, the podcasting realm. So it’s like trying to stay current with everything as well as create your own stuff.
00:36:04:53 – 00:36:21:18
Mark Bogner
Even when I was doing it every week, it was it was like a madhouse. It was it was, I don’t even know how to describe it. It it was it could tell you the consuming part was more of my time than anything, so.
00:36:21:20 – 00:36:58:07
Agent Palmer
Well, that, I think time is one thing, but I found, Look, the amount of shows I listen to now pales like. I mean, it’s a fraction of what it used to be, right? And part of that. And and it’s not just time. Part of that is attention span. Right. Because I’ve, I’ve, revisited my love of music, which is something that I don’t, I can actively listen to, but I can more easily, passively listen to music than I can a podcast.
00:36:58:12 – 00:37:03:56
Agent Palmer
And so it has replaced my, the, my listening habits have basically changed.
00:37:04:00 – 00:37:07:01
Mark Bogner
Yeah, I you like music? I couldn’t tell.
00:37:07:06 – 00:37:07:29
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s.
00:37:07:43 – 00:37:08:42
Mark Bogner
Looking at the stuff behind.
00:37:08:54 – 00:37:31:23
Agent Palmer
Everybody. I mean look so, this is the I mean, I guess. Yeah, this is the first podcast in the new studio. It should sound about the same. But like, behind me are three bass amps, the three bass guitars and an acoustic, I don’t know. Yeah. And I think in frame also are my amps my, my amp stack.
00:37:31:28 – 00:37:36:38
Agent Palmer
Right. But that’s different than listening. Right.
00:37:36:42 – 00:37:38:36
Mark Bogner
Well, I see your vinyl collection.
00:37:38:36 – 00:37:45:46
Agent Palmer
Okay. All right. Fine. I, I do. Oh, Man
00:37:45:51 – 00:37:48:48
Agent Palmer
00:37:48:52 – 00:37:53:59
Agent Palmer
This is what I get to call him out with his headset.
00:37:54:03 – 00:37:54:41
Agent Palmer
00:37:54:41 – 00:37:59:08
Mark Bogner
Hey, you know what? I’ll tell you,
00:37:59:13 – 00:38:01:05
Agent Palmer
00:38:01:10 – 00:38:20:04
Agent Palmer
Oh, boy. It’s fine. No, I look, I, I but but at the height of my podcasting, listening, I’m. If I listened to ten minutes of music a week, I think that would have been a lot, because it was all those seven shows or eight or whatever it was at the height of it.
00:38:20:04 – 00:38:44:57
Mark Bogner
At one point I was listening to 21 different podcasts throughout a week, and, I mean, completely different shows. But that doesn’t also include the fact that if I caught a show that was in later seasons or later episodes, me going back and binging through those and the other ones just to catch up and get current.
00:38:44:57 – 00:39:15:41
Agent Palmer
And this is why you and I kind of have that same wavelength thing I did go back like some of the shows I found at 50, 75 or episode 100. I did go back. Oh, sure. And and start from the beginning. Now I, I don’t do that anymore. But that’s also a again, it’s the attention I don’t I, I couldn’t possibly even know where to begin now.
00:39:15:45 – 00:39:46:52
Agent Palmer
Like, I just, I just wouldn’t say, but I, I will say, if any, if, if anybody listening to this has never completely listened to, podcast from like episode 0 or 1 through 75, for any show that’s lasted that long, it’s, it’s almost as transformative as reading like, the best biographies because the hosts change.
00:39:46:52 – 00:39:48:42
Agent Palmer
So much.
00:39:48:47 – 00:40:27:43
Mark Bogner
Yeah. You know, because they’re at the beginning. They’re just getting their feet wet. You know, they’re they’re just kind of dangling them in the river. They haven’t quite got to the point where they’re in fully submerged and swimming. So they are just finding their, their way. And when you look even my show, when we first started, we had, terrible quality mics, not like headsets or anything, but, we had terrible quality mikes until I finally broke down and bought this entire Behringer, mixer set.
00:40:27:48 – 00:40:39:21
Mark Bogner
And it came with, two Behringer mikes. And then it was like, oh, we’re in the big leagues now, but it still sounded like crap because we didn’t know how to work it correctly, you know?
00:40:39:21 – 00:40:40:40
Agent Palmer
So yeah.
00:40:40:45 – 00:41:10:32
Mark Bogner
Getting used to that up until I think it was, when my best friend joined the show. Yeah, he’s always, I’m going to date myself again. I’ve known him since the summer of 1981. Okay. That was right before second grade. That tells you how old I am. Okay. Yeah. So, he’s always been a bit of a techie, so he would go through and, like.
00:41:10:32 – 00:41:14:19
Agent Palmer
Sat down and went. Wait, wait wait wait wait wait, what are you doing here? Exactly?
00:41:14:19 – 00:41:40:28
Mark Bogner
Because he’s like, I wonder if there’s a way that we could improve what we have. And then sure enough, he dove headfirst right into it and he’s like, I got these Audio-Technica mics. I got these, awesome. This awesome headgear, studio monitors. I’ve got, this cool little mixer and, you know, and we ended up actually in order to do our show with the best quality sound.
00:41:40:32 – 00:42:02:58
Mark Bogner
I learned this from, podcast called Fistful of Podcast, which was, the guy who’s based out of Arizona, but him, his co-host, and because his co-host was in, Nevada and they ended up actually recording their own audio.
00:42:03:03 – 00:42:03:57
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:42:04:02 – 00:42:26:19
Mark Bogner
And then they would hand it off to David, who was the showrunner, and he would mix it together. And that was it took out any lag, any, sound quality issues. And we ended up doing that all the way up until we kind of stopped for a little while, which turned into years. But,
00:42:26:24 – 00:42:29:49
Agent Palmer
That’s how hiatuses tend to do that, right?
00:42:29:49 – 00:42:37:25
Mark Bogner
Because we got out of it so much to the point where I was like, you want to know? I’m kind of busy, so let’s maybe next week or whatever, and then it just.
00:42:37:31 – 00:43:02:18
Agent Palmer
Okay, is it isn’t it kind of amazing just how easy it is to keep it going, even though once you stop and you look back, you go. I have no idea how like, I, I love the man. He’s like a brother. And I’m not throwing him under the bus, even though he’s probably not listening. But if it is, I love you, Bill.
00:43:02:31 – 00:43:06:03
Agent Palmer
But Bill Sweeney of the Wicked Theory podcast.
00:43:06:08 – 00:43:08:10
Mark Bogner
Oh, yeah.
00:43:08:15 – 00:43:42:07
Agent Palmer
It find it harder now in talking with him to start the Wicked Theory podcast back up than it was when it was a grind to the 200 some episodes in a row. He did. Right. It’s true. And and I look at that and I go, thankfully my show releases every other week, so I my grind. Not quite a weekly show, but I also know exactly where he’s coming from, where it’s like, I don’t know what would happen if I stop this for like a month, like just took one episode off.
00:43:42:11 – 00:43:46:40
Agent Palmer
I don’t know what that would be like. And it’s like, how do you start up again?
00:43:46:45 – 00:44:19:42
Mark Bogner
It’s hard to do that. There have been a couple times where there was no episode, with us because of whether it was some schedule conflict and to pick up maybe a couple weeks later. It was one of those where it’s like, okay, we have to do this, have to have to have to do this. But unfortunately, if you let it go too long, it’s next to impossible to get back to it and to find that momentum again, especially after a certain amount of time, like especially for me being a couple of, say a couple years.
00:44:19:46 – 00:44:21:35
Agent Palmer
So it’s a couple of years.
00:44:21:40 – 00:44:23:29
Mark Bogner
It’s what would you say couple years?
00:44:23:29 – 00:44:30:27
Agent Palmer
It’s fine. I, I have to go back. All right. So when I was coding, I would listen to music.
00:44:30:32 – 00:44:33:02
Agent Palmer
00:44:33:07 – 00:44:45:26
Agent Palmer
You were programing with words. You were programing with audio books and podcasts. Did you ever code with music or was it like. Oh, yeah, sure. Okay.
00:44:45:26 – 00:45:07:01
Mark Bogner
It really depended on my mood. A lot of times when I first started out, it was music, okay? All day long. Music I found is great. There was the beginnings of internet radio, you know, so I found this great internet radio station that always had this great music with great beats and good pacing. And it was on live three 65.com.
00:45:07:06 – 00:45:18:29
Mark Bogner
But I would go through and I’d hear these rhythms, these beats and everything like that, and I could start typing and going into the rhythm and getting into the zone with it. And, I was very productive at the time.
00:45:18:31 – 00:45:23:17
Agent Palmer
How did you get into that same zone with words? This is it.
00:45:23:17 – 00:45:42:03
Mark Bogner
Was difficult, but I have this weird ability. I have you ever listened to one song but started thinking about another and the melody in your head? Well, that song is play. Yeah. So you’ve got this one beat that. Doom, doom to doom doom. And then you’ve got this other beat in your head that’s going to do doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo.
00:45:42:08 – 00:46:02:33
Mark Bogner
And you’re trying to get that correlation kind of thing. I had that ability to separate the two okay. And I. I about freaked my wife out because we were every once in a while, we’d get into these conversations. Here we go off on a tangent, which is why, you know, tangent bound.
00:46:02:38 – 00:46:03:02
Agent Palmer
All.
00:46:03:07 – 00:46:25:48
Mark Bogner
Everyone’s a yeah, all a herd. Yeah. So we we would do these little. We still do. But, where some one of us would say like some sort of key phrase or whatever, that would remind us of a song. And then from that song, we would quote some lyrics from that song using that phrase, okay. And then she’d go on and use one for hers or what have you.
00:46:25:50 – 00:46:37:02
Mark Bogner
So, she would get frustrated sometimes when, there was music already playing on the stereo, and I would start singing the other tune that we were talking about.
00:46:37:04 – 00:46:38:01
Agent Palmer
Oh, okay.
00:46:38:14 – 00:47:01:04
Mark Bogner
And while that was playing in my ear and I’m singing this whole other tune, she’s like, how do you do that? I don’t know. So with the programing going back, sorry about that tangent. With the programing, I, I found it easy to listen to a story and let my mind wander that way while I’m focusing on this.
00:47:01:04 – 00:47:11:23
Mark Bogner
And I could get in the zone and I could be, you know, writing lines of code. At first it was difficult, but then we just kind of, I just kind of.
00:47:11:25 – 00:47:19:27
Agent Palmer
Well, to practice, I guess it’s kind of like everything else. Have you continued writing all along?
00:47:19:32 – 00:47:20:11
Mark Bogner
The coding?
00:47:20:11 – 00:47:21:42
Agent Palmer
No. Writing. Oh.
00:47:21:47 – 00:47:49:03
Mark Bogner
Writing. Yeah. Absolutely. I, I’ve been writing scripts for the shows that, I plan on releasing once we get the film, schedules and everything together. Because I’m a legal entity, I’m also looking at hiring people like producers so that I can find funding for these projects to film them, because I can’t do it for nothing.
00:47:49:05 – 00:48:19:22
Agent Palmer
Well, and I think this you, you have ambitions that are beyond a look. I know you can do a lot with a phone, but you have ambitions beyond that. And I think that’s good. I think, you know, we want more. Well, I, I’ve, I’ve been lucky enough to, Look, if we’re going to talk about all the podcasters I knew that don’t anymore.
00:48:19:27 – 00:48:34:26
Agent Palmer
The first I have three mixers in my house. The first two were gifts of people that were like, I upgraded or I’m done here.
00:48:34:31 – 00:48:35:20
Mark Bogner
Those are the best kind of.
00:48:35:20 – 00:49:10:22
Agent Palmer
Friends, you know? And so, and and so, you. But without that, I don’t think this show would exist. Or it would. Oh, it would in a different way. Right. Like I couldn’t do it. And with the shows you’re talking about. Yeah. I mean, you could get seven people to stand around with seven different cameras and try and link it up and all that, but you want a little bit more than that, and I, I, I think that’s good because, it, it’s, we glossed over it because I didn’t want to go on my soapbox.
00:49:10:27 – 00:49:32:31
Agent Palmer
Kevin Smith is not wrong when he says anybody can do this, but he’s also incorrect when he says, anybody can do this because it’s not just turning on the mic, recording and publishing like there are exponentially more steps then three. And so.
00:49:32:36 – 00:49:33:24
Mark Bogner
True story.
00:49:33:30 – 00:50:10:20
Agent Palmer
I think that there’s a lot of people that gloss over that. And while you could do this with a phone, that’s not the ambition, right? You want it to be polished, you want it to be something more. And so it, it it takes a lot. Absolutely. It’s almost like, a child, like it takes a village. Right. And I think, but, when you talk, especially when you talk to children with kids, occasionally they will say, I have this many kids.
00:50:10:20 – 00:50:29:10
Agent Palmer
And you’re like, wait a minute, I’ve met your kids. You only have two. And they’re like, yeah, but I also have three podcasts. So that’s why I have x number of, you know, that they’re loved that much and that you’re going into this with that, kind of, you know, ownership.
00:50:29:15 – 00:50:53:12
Mark Bogner
Yeah, yeah. There you go. And it’s true. It’s absolutely true. I mean, if you’re passionate about it and you have that drive, that passion, and of course, a bit of the know how instead of just, you know, trying to just use your phone or whatnot, you can accomplish it. Now. Okay. There’s a lot of people that have the passion but don’t have the ability.
00:50:53:17 – 00:51:05:47
Mark Bogner
So yeah, they’re not to speak bad about those people. But there’s, you know, maybe get some help with that. You know, like, especially the production side of things.
00:51:05:47 – 00:51:16:52
Agent Palmer
Well, I’ll all I know is I, every time I see tangible posts for a producer, I go, I just wish he was a little closer.
00:51:16:57 – 00:51:47:21
Mark Bogner
Well, that would be cool, because I with that, I mean, there’s so much that actually goes into producer and we’re actually taking it to a whole different level with the producers, that we’re trying to hire because normally producers, aside from finding funding and scheduling for production time, they’re also to be on set with, sometimes, you know, helping.
00:51:47:26 – 00:52:03:17
Mark Bogner
Yeah, to push a show in a, specific direction. But we’re taking it to a different level, to the point where we just kind of want somebody to help us find the funding and the scheduling and to make sure everybody’s on track. And that’s why it’s only a part time job.
00:52:03:17 – 00:52:17:57
Agent Palmer
So where where did you learn it? Like, I’m I’m gonna. You see, we’re we’ll just date ourselves all over. I learned about producers and production from DVD extras. Right. Like that.
00:52:17:57 – 00:52:19:07
Mark Bogner
Yes, yes.
00:52:19:10 – 00:52:28:24
Agent Palmer
Okay, so, I mean, I mean, I guess I mean, I, I didn’t go to film school. I had DVD extras, like, that’s what they’re for.
00:52:28:26 – 00:52:44:17
Mark Bogner
I the whole behind the scenes stuff. Yeah. Everything all about that. But the other thing is, is that because I wanted to do some of these grand scale projects, I decided to start, you know, reading up on stuff like books, how to books, how to shoot video. That doesn’t suck.
00:52:44:17 – 00:52:46:00
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:52:46:05 – 00:53:03:35
Mark Bogner
Filmmaking stuff, how to make market and sell your movie without a middleman, shooting movies, a student filmmakers guide. So, I mean, there’s all sorts of different things that I’m doing to help this along so that I don’t shoot video that doesn’t suck.
00:53:03:35 – 00:53:26:02
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s, you know, and I think I’m excited. I’m, I’m going to say this on I usually don’t, but like, I will I’m like, you’re going to come back after you’ve, got a few of these shows launched and we’re going to do we’re going to learn just what Mark learned launching all of these things.
00:53:26:06 – 00:53:46:06
Mark Bogner
Well, the other thing I, you know, surfing the internet, things we didn’t have growing up, you know, if you really wanted to look for this information, you had to go to a library or find an encyclopedia. And silly me, when I go to an encyclopedia, the first one I look for is the letter S, but, you know, for other reasons.
00:53:46:11 – 00:54:13:27
Mark Bogner
But, you know, we didn’t have that growing up. So now there’s YouTube videos. There’s, you can take classes online on how to produce films, how to write scripts, where to find a template that you can use to write a screenplay or a teleplay. And because of, you know, that creative gene that I have, which sometimes takes over in my mind, just goes.
00:54:13:32 – 00:54:47:04
Agent Palmer
It happens to all of us. We all have how many more ideas, ideas or kernels of ideas do you have? Then? Things you’ve even started, right? Not even going to target just like so. Yeah, it it’s there. And I think, I think you’re ahead of the curve because I know you’re okay to make a mistake. Right. Like and I think that that’s, that’s probably the if we wanted to go back to Kevin Smith’s you know like just anybody can do this if you’re willing to make mistakes.
00:54:47:04 – 00:54:48:31
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:54:48:36 – 00:54:51:37
Mark Bogner
Oh yeah. Because, books.
00:54:51:41 – 00:55:00:34
Agent Palmer
The internet, YouTube, talking to other people making a mistake might be the most educational thing you will ever do.
00:55:00:39 – 00:55:30:16
Mark Bogner
Absolutely. And you are 100% correct, because that that knowledge can only be gained by making that mistake. You know, I, I have failed I failure is one of my biggest fears. I mean that is the biggest fear. And I’m not scared of snakes, spiders, death. That doesn’t scare me. What scares me is failure. That’s the biggest, thing for me.
00:55:30:16 – 00:55:38:03
Mark Bogner
So when I make a mistake, I kind of take it hard. But I learn from it. But that I don’t do it again.
00:55:38:03 – 00:55:57:38
Agent Palmer
But what you said is so important. A mistake is not a failure, right? Like you make that delineation somehow, some way because it’s what you just said. And that is in, in, in, and any other context. That’s everything.
00:55:57:43 – 00:56:28:24
Mark Bogner
Sure. Absolutely. And with that, that’s how you’re going to learn is to make that mistake and so that you don’t do it again. Or if you do do it again and, you know, go big or go home. But, it’s just, I don’t know, it’s one of those things where it becomes trial and error. And how else are you going to succeed if you don’t know how to fail?
00:56:28:28 – 00:56:32:55
Agent Palmer
You.
00:56:32:59 – 00:56:56:06
Agent Palmer
Mark and I are unique. We’re not as rare as, say, a unicorn. But we aren’t common. We are creators who can work on our own, but also excel within a collaborative or facilitative environment. We’re equally passionate about our own things as we are helping others get to their things, and this is where we have to be purposefully general because we’re here to help.
00:56:56:11 – 00:57:26:35
Agent Palmer
And we’re more helpful than most facilitators because we are also creators on our own. So we know our collaborators pain. We’ve had writer’s block and we have overcome writer’s block. We’ve gained and lost creative momentum. We’ve helped others, and we’ve been helped. We’ve been in the weeds at every step on projects across many mediums. But there’s one more thing we have in common, and that’s how this conversation ended, with a universal truth that keeps Mark and I going, because we’re always willing to learn from mistakes.
00:57:26:47 – 00:57:45:53
Agent Palmer
Mistakes that we’re not afraid to make because a mistake is not a failure. The sooner you learn that as a creative, the further you’ll end up going. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 147. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion.
00:57:46:03 – 00:58:07:33
Agent Palmer
You can find all related ways to contact my guest, Mark and myself. In the show notes. You can visit Tangible network.com to see what Mark’s been working on the cooking show maybe simmering more than the others, but I’d have a snack to hold you over until it’s done. The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Email and comments can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com, and remember, you’re home for all things.
00:58:07:33 – 00:58:20:10
Agent Palmer
Agent Palmer is Agent Palmer.com.
00:58:20:15 – 00:58:54:31
Agent Palmer
You.
00:58:54:36 – 00:58:56:55
Agent Palmer
Okay, Mark, do you have one final question for me?
00:58:56:56 – 00:59:03:05
Mark Bogner
Yes, yes I do. I thought you were about to take a sip, so I waited.
00:59:03:14 – 00:59:05:47
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I’ll just. I’ll still drink. That’s fine.
00:59:05:52 – 00:59:26:20
Mark Bogner
I don’t know if you’re keeping that last little conversation that we had in this about you checking levels and everything like that. What was the deciding factor that made it so that you needed to do that? Was it one of those things where you didn’t check properly and you went the whole show and realized, oh, I think I made a mistake?
00:59:26:35 – 00:59:33:20
Mark Bogner
Or was it one of those where it’s like, I started off that way because that just seemed like the right thing to do.
00:59:33:24 – 01:00:15:20
Agent Palmer
So I didn’t I did I did cut it out. So, I what what what Mark’s referring to is I told him that, we were joking about having not hit record, and I said that I hit record before I start the call because the show. Hey, how you doing? Banter is when I check my levels. I think it started, I think it goes back to 15 year old me, because 15 year old me with a task import a studio and a bunch of, friends trying to become rock stars, we were never that good, but, like, that’s what it was.
01:00:15:22 – 01:00:16:20
Agent Palmer
01:00:16:25 – 01:00:20:53
Mark Bogner
I was it that you knew your three notes and you were just going to, well, be all set?
01:00:20:55 – 01:00:26:17
Agent Palmer
That was me. I was the weak link. That’s why I was a bass player.
01:00:26:22 – 01:00:30:25
Mark Bogner
But, hey, now bass players get a bad rep. Bass players are the coolest.
01:00:30:25 – 01:00:56:52
Agent Palmer
I think so, but I think what it is, is at the time, the task import studios were they were expensive. And I was lucky enough to have one, actually two. But they ran on tapes. They ran on cassette tapes, not quarter inch, not two inch, not one inch, not reel to reel. We’re talking about cassette tapes, which were a dime a dozen at the time.
01:00:57:01 – 01:01:29:03
Agent Palmer
Right. So sure, I, I think it just goes stems from there where it was if somebody was about to play, I hit record now unless we were with the, with the history lesson, four tracks for the tiny port studio, eight tracks for the large port, the studio. But you could record over stuff and move and mix everything down from tracks one through eight, down to one, and then record, keep recording more.
01:01:29:07 – 01:01:53:26
Agent Palmer
But if you were just recording like the first initial, you could just hit record. And so I think it was hanging out with the equipment set up but not recording, and people were like, did you get that, that I always aired on the side of, we can just go buy another $1 pack of three 90 minute tapes, right?
01:01:53:26 – 01:02:16:54
Agent Palmer
Let you use it. They’re a dime a dozen. They’re cheap. It’s fine. And and I think it goes to that where, like, I’d rather have 30 minutes of just us shooting this shit or nothing. And then 30s of this riff somebody only nailed once and has as opposed to just being like, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, Mark, can you do that again?
01:02:16:59 – 01:02:45:32
Agent Palmer
Nobody was recording. And I think, I think it’s that I think it goes back that far. I think it had it been reel to reel, had it not been a cheap. You know, a cassette tape or whatever, maybe I would have learned my lesson in a different way by not recording. But it really goes back to like, I’d rather have it on, and I’ll go one step further.
01:02:45:36 – 01:03:19:54
Agent Palmer
I also record a good portion of aftershow conversations, which, I would ask permission, and I obviously I have a contact information for every one of my guests, but I have what I would because I had started this project in terms of like, what do I have in those after shows that’s worth wild? So you started building, like, like I just, I just as we recorded, I just released one final question, volume five.
01:03:19:54 – 01:03:38:30
Agent Palmer
I think it is right, because I work ahead and that is a collection of these one final questions. And so I was like, well, I can just do like five or like I can add three of these after credits after like these, post episode things that I’ve got recorded because they’re fun sometimes it’s a really cool story.
01:03:38:30 – 01:04:05:02
Agent Palmer
We just didn’t get time to or didn’t, you know, forgot about. I have a six hour rough draft, which is probably going to be could be cut into six one hour episodes, right? Like give or take, probably seven depending on how the cuts are. I don’t know that I’ll ever get back to it like I would like to, and there’s all that stuff, but it’s just like I’m always recording.
01:04:05:02 – 01:04:30:17
Agent Palmer
I feel like there’s, you know, we’re I if I can use it, I can use it. It’s great, it’s great. But like I always record I don’t know, it just it seemed like maybe all that time producing other shows from afar and having people go like, hey, Mark, can you talk? I need to check your level when I can just be recording and be like, hey, how you doing?
01:04:30:19 – 01:04:46:40
Agent Palmer
And then when you tell me about your day, which I’m genuinely interested in because I like to know the framework of my guests before I get going, I can check the level and go, all right, that sounds, you know, he’s good. Like I can hear it, I see it, it’s. We’re good to go.
01:04:46:45 – 01:04:47:48
Mark Bogner
Nice.
01:04:47:53 – 01:04:51:17
Agent Palmer
I was doing this for decades, man.
01:04:51:22 – 01:04:54:49
Agent Palmer
01:04:54:54 – 01:04:58:09
Mark Bogner
Decades! You know, it’s a shame. It’s an audio podcast because I can’t see the hand motions.
01:04:58:13 – 01:05:07:24
Agent Palmer
That’s fine. It’s fine. Well, I’ll, I’ll we’ll make sure, you know, we’ll make sure to reiterate. Really? Maybe I’ll add reverb to you for that.
01:05:07:29 – 01:05:08:56
Mark Bogner
There you go. Decades.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).