Agent Palmer

Episode 183 featuring Pennsylvania State Representative Mike Schlossberg who is here to talk about his outlet; writing.

We also talk about his most recent published book Almost the End of the World, his first book of fiction Redemption, plus having something to say, time management, the aspirational value of to-do lists and much much more.

Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode

AgentPalmer.com

MikeSchlossbergAuthor.com

Good Government Institute

Other Links

The Last Amateurs is a slam-dunk look at the formation of the Patriot League

The Adventure I Didn’t Know I Needed

It’s (Almost) The End of the World As We Know It

Putting Anxiety into Science Fiction: A Spoiler Free Review of Redemption by Mike Schlossberg

An Avid Reader’s Guide to a Methodical Book Purge

Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.

https://youtu.be/QcjI6iCtjqM?si=oe345RP-5k9XP8Qi

–End Show Notes Transmission–

–Begin Transcription–

00:00:00:04 – 00:00:24:29
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer. The last amateurs is a slam dunk. Look at the formation of the Patriot League. I made my wife watch a movie which she loved enough to write about. And since last episode, I’ve been constantly thinking about things where the phrase I don’t like that that’s true can be applicable. This is The Palmer Files episode 183, featuring Pennsylvania State Representative Mike Schlossberg, who is here to talk about his outlet writing.

00:00:24:29 – 00:00:41:52
Agent Palmer
We also talk about his most recent published book, Almost the End of the world, his first book of fiction, redemption. Plus having something to say. Time management, the aspirational value of to do lists and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.

00:00:41:57 – 00:00:51:49
Mike Schlossberg
So I will fall back a little bit to my political career here, because a big part of what I have to try to do is relate to people, and that’s kind of what writing is.

00:00:51:54 – 00:00:58:10
Mike Schlossberg
I have a to do list. That is the only way that I actually fully function as a human.

00:00:58:15 – 00:01:03:56
Mike Schlossberg
Going easy on myself is not something I’ve ever really specialized in.

00:01:04:00 – 00:01:12:34
Mike Schlossberg
I think a well-written young adult book can be enjoyed by anybody because I mean, first of all, we all remember what that age.

00:01:12:38 – 00:01:19:43
Mike Schlossberg
I think there’s something really to be said about, you know, tend to paper and using your hand, it makes life a lot better sometimes.

00:01:19:48 – 00:01:42:04
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Starship, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 183rd episode is Mike Schlossberg. Mike is a member of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives. But while we do talk a little bit about his day job in public service, he’s on the podcast because I happen to be a fan of his published works of fiction, and I was curious about how he manages it all.

00:01:42:05 – 00:02:03:04
Agent Palmer
Plus, we discuss relating to people talking about anxiety, political polarization, reading, writing, and just how aspirational are to do lists. All of that and much, much more is coming your way shortly. But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterward, you can find all related ways to contact Mike and myself in the show notes.

00:02:03:04 – 00:02:23:34
Agent Palmer
You can connect with Mike at Mike Schlossberg author, which is also where you can order his books. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Palmer. Com and of course email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.

00:02:23:39 – 00:02:24:44
Agent Palmer
Mike, you are.

00:02:24:46 – 00:02:25:20
Agent Palmer
A state.

00:02:25:20 – 00:02:27:10
Agent Palmer
Representative and.

00:02:27:19 – 00:02:42:09
Agent Palmer
A husband and a father and an author. And I specifically want to talk about that last one, because with all the ones before it, where do you find the time energy, inspiration to do the writing?

00:02:42:11 – 00:02:50:04
Mike Schlossberg
It is candidly the only thing that keeps me sane. And I say that jokingly, and it is jokingly, at least half jokingly.

00:02:50:04 – 00:02:52:35
Agent Palmer
But everybody needs an outlet. Right?

00:02:52:40 – 00:03:16:19
Mike Schlossberg
Right, right. And I’ve genuinely found that this is one of those passion projects that I’ve always really enjoyed. And if you care about something in and off and you can fold it in your overall purpose, which in my case is absolutely try to do as much good as you can in the world around you, then it becomes something that’s important they make time for, and that’s always how I’ve tried to treat my writing, even if that means, you know, playing video games less or doing something else less.

00:03:16:19 – 00:03:18:04
Mike Schlossberg
And that’s okay. I’m good with that.

00:03:18:04 – 00:03:22:47
Agent Palmer
Okay. And I, I didn’t read your first book. I read your second and your third book.

00:03:22:50 – 00:03:33:42
Mike Schlossberg
Yeah. First books wildly out of date. Like actually comedically out of date. It was about politicians who ended their career by doing stupid things on social media. And it was written in 2014 before Trump, so J.K. lol.

00:03:33:44 – 00:03:44:46
Agent Palmer
Well, you know, in fairness though, I feel like it might be dated, but I do not think it’s out of style, so to speak. Like, you know.

00:03:44:48 – 00:04:01:09
Mike Schlossberg
I wrote, you always have to be nice and professional and I was wrong. Especially because and even besides from Trump, like he moved the over to window, but he helped make it so that so many other people can really let some of their worst influences out. And this was written in an era before social media was quite as poisonous.

00:04:01:09 – 00:04:09:33
Mike Schlossberg
So I really did misunderstand. Well, not misunderstand, but I didn’t see where the universe was going at the time. That being said, that was my nonfiction book.

00:04:09:35 – 00:04:31:10
Agent Palmer
That was your nonfiction book, but that was your first. So. So here’s the question. Right. Like the next two are fiction. Yes. And specifically young adult fiction. And so what was that always like? So why why was there a nonfiction first? If you’ve got these other two, you know, in you that clearly needed to get out at some point.

00:04:31:14 – 00:04:50:37
Mike Schlossberg
Some question, the nonfiction was first because I realized it was really, really timely and I felt like I lived at the right intersection or write it again. It was a book about social media and politicians before it was written, 2013 2014. It was when I wrote it, and I saw it was still in my first and second term in the House of Representatives.

00:04:50:40 – 00:05:06:48
Mike Schlossberg
Before then, I worked for the Chamber of Commerce here, where, among other things, I did sales and social media, and I set up the Chambers Social media universe. And I also trained small business owners in how to use social media and how to not do anything stupid. So I realized I forget how exactly came up with the idea for the book.

00:05:06:51 – 00:05:34:59
Mike Schlossberg
It was probably Anthony Weiner, but I lived in the intersection of the universe where I felt like I could write that book with some credibility. Okay. And it worked, and I’m grateful for it. But the fiction books were absolutely things that that I still enjoy, and that felt very special and very different. And I’ve also meant more to me than just getting a book out there, because these I think both of the section books I’ve written and the other ones that I have queued up have something to say.

00:05:34:59 – 00:05:39:56
Mike Schlossberg
And I think that’s really important. When you’re writing, they have to have you have to have something meaningful to say.

00:05:39:58 – 00:06:14:49
Agent Palmer
So I want to talk about the first fiction book, because you wrote about anxiety in a way that might be the most real. As someone who lives with it like that was the most real, I guess interpretation from like anxiety attack or panic attack to the page that I had read in a long time. In fact, the only thing remotely close in pop culture at all was in Iron Man three, when Penny stark has the panic attack.

00:06:14:51 – 00:06:28:27
Agent Palmer
Right. And and your book spoke to me on a level because of that. And I just want to know, how hard was it to translate that to the page?

00:06:28:31 – 00:06:47:59
Mike Schlossberg
Not really. No, that part wasn’t hard. Now it’s been more of a challenge, especially in looking at the manuscript again, is trying not to overdo it and trying to keep the core of the story without being too preachy, but like, it was personal and it was personal, inspired and also certainly inspired by some of the work that I’ve done with other people with some sort of mental health issue.

00:06:48:01 – 00:07:10:02
Mike Schlossberg
So it really wasn’t that difficult to get onto the page. And like this was also a redemption. That redemption was written after I had started talking publicly about my own mental health issues. So there wasn’t anything too difficult about writing it in a fictional form. And I, I’m always hesitant to allow that stuff to define my career completely.

00:07:10:02 – 00:07:17:19
Mike Schlossberg
And I, you know, probably speaking persona. But it wasn’t a challenge to say who I was. And that’s kind of what the book was about.

00:07:17:19 – 00:07:39:56
Agent Palmer
So you well, I think you got the cheat code going because you were able to talk about it first. And so that that’s huge, right? Because I know that through the hundreds of episodes of this podcast, I’ve not shied away from being a person living with anxiety. But I know that it has become easier to talk about and like, right.

00:07:39:58 – 00:08:10:25
Agent Palmer
I think it was episode 13. I had a friend on to discuss our vastly different anxieties that manifest differently. And they they they’re their causes are different. But we we hashed it out and that was the first real like, okay, there’s something here. But in the 100 plus episodes since. Right, like it has gotten easier to talk about when you first started, though, talking about it publicly before you even start writing again, is it is it hard?

00:08:10:28 – 00:08:24:48
Agent Palmer
Is it because my I am only coming from a place where, for me, the hardest thing was translating it into words people without anxiety would understand. Not like like you and I having a conversation be like, we have the shorthand, I think we can wait.

00:08:24:49 – 00:08:27:39
Mike Schlossberg
Doesn’t suck when your stomach stops working because you’re too scared.

00:08:27:41 – 00:08:38:24
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but I think other people who don’t, who don’t have manifestations similar or as such, like, that’s the hard part, right? Or is it?

00:08:38:28 – 00:08:53:44
Mike Schlossberg
So I will fall back a little bit to my political career here, because a big part of what I have to try to do is relate to people, and that’s kind of what writing is, at least good writing. You relate to somebody, and then you use that relation and that commonality to help them get somewhere that you want to take them.

00:08:53:44 – 00:09:10:58
Mike Schlossberg
And when you’re writing, it’s all about emotions and feeling and understanding. So it’s a necessary skill in all of my lines of work, where there’s more overlap than I really ever would have thought. But it’s not like it’s all it’s all achievable. And I think it’s something that I’ve been able to do and I hope was some degree of success.

00:09:11:00 – 00:09:18:57
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, like I said, I enjoyed the first book. I was I know when I reached out to you, I was I was looking for the second book in the series.

00:09:19:07 – 00:09:36:18
Mike Schlossberg
We’re still so that is I am still hopeful that that might see light of day, because it was something at my my writing path has been a little bit strange because I had the first book I wrote, the second and the third book, and then the publisher. It was small publisher slowed down a little bit, and I kind of went, well, I guess that’s not happening and moved on.

00:09:36:18 – 00:09:54:40
Mike Schlossberg
Wrote the new book, different publisher, got that published in my old publisher came back and was like, hey, we can actually proceed on this. I see you’re still going and I’d like to and it’s still very much an editing. I’m not happy with where book number two landed. So that’s where it is right now. And I am still hopeful that maybe that will see the light of day as well.

00:09:54:41 – 00:10:15:15
Mike Schlossberg
It just depends on life. I’m really excited about the new project and that’s become meaning. I think, you know, the mental health stuff will always be timely, but I do think that what I spoke about in the new book is something that really that I hope hits this world right now, because it’s all about how to have hope in a world that seems to be spinning wildly out of control.

00:10:15:23 – 00:10:37:19
Agent Palmer
So I want to go back as far as I can. Did you always want to be a writer? Like, I mean, because obviously that’s obviously you said you have to make time for something you want and have a passion for. Yeah. So was I mean, you’re currently a public servant, but like before then, did you want to be just an author?

00:10:37:24 – 00:10:55:47
Mike Schlossberg
It was all since sixth grade. It was part of something that I wanted to do. It was always a creative passion that I had, and it was something that I always enjoyed. You know, I wrote I, it’s in my writer biography. The first thing I ever really wrote was an eight page Star Wars fanfic when I was in eighth grade, and it was terrible, but it was always something that I absolutely wanted to do.

00:10:55:49 – 00:11:16:09
Mike Schlossberg
Now, as most writers will tell you, writing full time is like a next to impossible task. It is just not something that most people can actually afford to do. That doesn’t mean you don’t try or do it as a side hustle. And like any good millennial, like have a side hustle. Yeah. And that’s what it’s turned into, is turned into a really fun and enjoyable side hustle.

00:11:16:09 – 00:11:29:06
Mike Schlossberg
I couldn’t see myself over doing it full time for a thousand different reasons, not the least of which being like, I go to it. I don’t think most writers can afford it unless you’re, you know, that level of good. I’m not. But you do the best you can with it and you enjoy it.

00:11:29:09 – 00:11:52:34
Agent Palmer
So from my understanding, and I’ve talked to a decent amount of authors of different strata, I guess you would call nobody in that Stephen King level, right? Right. But it always feels like and this is not related just to authors. I think this is everyone. We could all be better promoters of ourselves and our work, and you are already in the public.

00:11:52:34 – 00:11:54:05
Mike Schlossberg
I wrote myself for a living.

00:11:54:07 – 00:12:15:39
Agent Palmer
Yeah, you’re already in the public eye and now you’ve got to say. But hey, also, look at this other thing. Yeah. Is it easy to do? I mean, because obviously I’m not saying that in the state Senate or as a state representative, you’re always campaigning the way that we see national figures. But at the same time, you’re still always out there and out there and out there.

00:12:15:42 – 00:12:19:51
Agent Palmer
So is it easy to go? Okay, but now I’m putting on this other my author hat.

00:12:19:54 – 00:12:45:21
Mike Schlossberg
No, no. And that’s a really good question because it’s actually what I worry about the most. And one of the things that actually stops me the most from really doing this more is that I never want people to think that as much as I enjoy my writing, that I am distracted from my real job because real job, the first job will always be the job that the people of 132nd legislative district elected me to do, and that’s always going to be my first professional assignment.

00:12:45:21 – 00:13:01:39
Mike Schlossberg
And I just so as I talk about my writing and as I promote myself in the books, I always have to do it with the idea of like, hey guys, this is fun, but it’s not my real job. And please understand that. And that is absolutely something that I worry about. You know, it’s never been used against me or anything like that.

00:13:01:39 – 00:13:15:33
Mike Schlossberg
Even more importantly, I would never want any of my constituents to think that it meant that I was distracted or that I was less willing to do what my real job is. But that is absolutely always a worry of mine as something I have to try to balance as best I can.

00:13:15:36 – 00:13:42:13
Agent Palmer
Well, I just know that even those of us without that worry don’t do it enough. So I feel like like, you know what I mean? Like, it’s the I know enough authors that, well, I could always get out there more, but, but and I think and I want to know specifically because you do make the time a lot of authors and creatives in when we finish a project, we want to go on to the next one, the promotion.

00:13:42:27 – 00:13:45:00
Agent Palmer
Not so much the greatest. Like it’s it’s not.

00:13:45:10 – 00:13:46:58
Mike Schlossberg
Everyone hates the promotion.

00:13:47:00 – 00:14:05:52
Agent Palmer
It’s not the celebratory lap that everyone thinks it is. So is there ignoring your worry about your constituents and just going from, you’re an author who finished something and you should promote this, but I think I want to move on to the next thing. Do you have a balance there?

00:14:05:57 – 00:14:28:58
Mike Schlossberg
It’s really tough. And it’s also really tough, especially this being a part time side hustle. The time that I actually do spend on it becomes really, really important and limited. So you really have to manage that the right way. And trying to do so is very, very difficult. So do I have a handle on it? I think I have the best handle you possibly can.

00:14:28:58 – 00:14:31:10
Mike Schlossberg
I just honestly don’t know how good that handle is.

00:14:31:12 – 00:14:46:57
Agent Palmer
And so when you talk about I need to set time aside to do this hobby in addition to all the other things you’re doing. Are you in one of those mindsets where it took a while to get to? All right, but as long as I write something or.

00:14:47:01 – 00:15:02:20
Mike Schlossberg
Yes, absolutely. I try to set goals for myself and I am, as my kids or my wife or my staff will tell you, I. I have a to do list. That is the only way that I actually fully function as a human. So as long as I have that thing locked and loaded in front of me, I’m doing okay.

00:15:02:34 – 00:15:17:48
Mike Schlossberg
Okay. And it’s to do. Lists are always expiration. So I’m like, I’m going to do all these things today. And then the end of the day rolls. And I’m like, I guess I wasn’t that bad. But you do have to like be really careful with how you use your time and with how you actually are able to get things done.

00:15:17:50 – 00:15:33:54
Agent Palmer
So I want to ask you about the other time thing specifically for writers is that a lot of writers are readers. So and this is where we have to bring your day job into it. You read a lot for your day job.

00:15:33:59 – 00:15:34:24
Mike Schlossberg
I do.

00:15:34:27 – 00:15:40:20
Agent Palmer
Do you get a chance to read for your side thing? And like other kind of fiction.

00:15:40:22 – 00:16:02:40
Mike Schlossberg
I absolutely read for fun as best I am able. And I’m definitely a big reader, you know, and I’ve made a much more. I’ve really tried to shift away from scrolling and remind myself that reading is significantly more important, and I think I’ve done a relatively decent job of that. And so I do read a lot, and I listen to audiobooks in the car a lot, especially the one hour, 23 minute trips to and from Harrisburg.

00:16:02:40 – 00:16:08:30
Mike Schlossberg
I’m usually listening to a book at this point rather than anything else. Not a big podcaster, definitely a big book listener.

00:16:08:33 – 00:16:35:19
Agent Palmer
Okay. That’s fine. I’m not. Look, I I’m sorry. I think any any way it comes, right? Like, I, I think that, you know, there is only a finite amount of space and I, even I shied away my podcast listening was a lot more before. And now I’m listening to a lot more music just because I’m. It’s the same reason that I’m like you when I, I try and pick up a book instead of a phone number one.

00:16:35:19 – 00:16:45:26
Agent Palmer
But number two, when I can, I listen to music instead of other things, because I was getting a lot of information and that overload from even.

00:16:45:26 – 00:16:45:38
Mike Schlossberg
Just.

00:16:45:52 – 00:17:05:10
Agent Palmer
Even just a pop culture podcast where it’s like and like, I don’t want it to mean the news, but I can get overwhelmed with a one hour podcast of people going like, here’s 17 things that are great between like, you know, movies and and books and, and comics. And it’s like, I don’t have time for any of that.

00:17:05:10 – 00:17:14:07
Agent Palmer
And now it’s like, oh, I’m. Am I missing stuff? Like what’s going. So when I shifted to music, instead of that, I found that it was better. Better. Yeah.

00:17:14:09 – 00:17:33:49
Mike Schlossberg
Yeah, I totally understand. And I have a as part of trying to market this book, I, you know, I have different social media accounts. I have an Instagram account, a TikTok account specific for my author page, and I spent a decent amount of time on, on Booktok, as it’s known. And I’m looking at booktok going, how do you people have time?

00:17:33:54 – 00:17:43:53
Mike Schlossberg
My God. And it’s been great. It’s really turned me on to some really, really interesting reading. But I’m still like, God, I would kill to have the amount of time that you people seem to have. How do you do this? I don’t get it.

00:17:43:56 – 00:18:17:06
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s it’s there’s an amount of, I think, and maybe it’s because we’re both of the same age. And when you hit 40 ish, because I don’t know what it happened for me, but when you hit 40 ish, you start to go, I think it’s okay that I’m not watching everything or listening to it, you know, like there’s a moment I think it it’s maybe there’s a start in your 30s where you’re like, give up on a franchise or something, but by the time you hit 40, you’re like, okay, like, I can pick and choose what I’m going to do and I don’t need to follow everything.

00:18:17:06 – 00:18:33:02
Agent Palmer
But that takes it takes that whole decade. And that’s why I say 40, because it takes a while to give up on the water cooler talk and be like, well, I didn’t watch that episode last night or whatever, you know, when must see TV and all that stuff. Like it takes a while to choose your own path.

00:18:33:05 – 00:18:47:42
Mike Schlossberg
I would much rather read at this point than watch most things. My wife and I watch TV together. That’s one of the things we try to do to relax and we’ll try to find a new show, etc. etc. but it doesn’t make it easy necessarily. And my wife, thankfully, is also a big reader, so sometimes that’s all we need to do.

00:18:47:42 – 00:18:49:42
Mike Schlossberg
We just sit there and read. Life is great.

00:18:49:45 – 00:19:11:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah, we we have, my wife and I have sat, we go, we we attempt to go to bed half hour, 45 minutes before we intend to sleep. And we just we are very much like it feels like what we assume our grandparents did, which is we sit in bed for a half hour, 45 minutes, both of us reading a separate book.

00:19:11:14 – 00:19:14:33
Mike Schlossberg
It’s a millennial thing, and that’s okay. I’m good with that kind of lifestyle.

00:19:14:36 – 00:19:41:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think it’s I mean, honestly, I’m thankful for the podcast and for life, for finally running into more readers because there was a time in my life when I had brought myself back to reading after, you know, because I think we all have ebbs and flows. A lot of us have ebbs and flows. And I got back into reading and no one else, like I couldn’t find another read.

00:19:41:25 – 00:19:52:29
Agent Palmer
Like I could tell a movie would come out. I’d have 15 people to talk about. I would read a book, even a new one or an old one, and it’d be like, hello?

00:19:52:34 – 00:19:59:50
Mike Schlossberg
I do know what you mean. That’s actually one of the nice things about social media is you really do find those people who are every bit as obsessed with the book as you. Whatever the book.

00:19:59:52 – 00:20:22:15
Agent Palmer
Yes, yes, whatever the book is. And so let’s get back to this. You find time to. Right. And I think it’s important that everybody knows you can find time to write. Like this is the thing that is fascinated me is people who go after, who have a full life. I would argue you have a fuller life than normal.

00:20:22:20 – 00:20:26:32
Agent Palmer
A public service is not is not 40 hours, let’s put it that way.

00:20:26:34 – 00:20:27:36
Mike Schlossberg
Can confirm.

00:20:27:51 – 00:20:43:19
Agent Palmer
So you are still in addition to that and family life going out and finding the time to write this is what was the was there ever a point where you were like, am I sure I want to do this?

00:20:43:23 – 00:21:03:34
Mike Schlossberg
For a while I didn’t think it was going to work out. And it’s funny, but I’ve been very lucky in my job because not only of my constituents are kind enough to continue to send me back to Harrisburg, but I’ve been relatively successful in Harrisburg. A few years ago, it was elected to our leadership role and then was elected to a new one after we took the majority and then was elected to another one the year after that.

00:21:03:34 – 00:21:23:38
Mike Schlossberg
So right now, the House majority whip. So which basically means you ever seen House of cards. You count the votes minus the subways. So and it is it sure is a job. It’s the number three ranking job. And it’s there’s a lot of running when we’re in session. You know I basically turned into a creature of Harrisburg running up and down the aisles trying to make sure that we actually have the votes that we need.

00:21:23:40 – 00:21:45:29
Mike Schlossberg
And there’s a lot of fundraising and a lot of travel, and you see how your members are doing and see what they need, if anything. And it’s it’s a lot, but it’s the writing stuff still matters. And, you know, a lot of time that I’d be playing video games or vegging watching YouTube. I am trying to do something work related, and that will always be where I want to spend my free time, such as it is.

00:21:45:32 – 00:21:54:38
Agent Palmer
So I want to ask about the public service for a moment. You and I grew up. We were in college when West Wing is on air.

00:21:54:38 – 00:21:56:07
Mike Schlossberg
Yep, yep.

00:21:56:12 – 00:22:03:57
Agent Palmer
Was there a moment before that? Was that the pop culture kind of thing? Like what was what got you going it.

00:22:04:04 – 00:22:28:03
Mike Schlossberg
So it was partially family. My dad was always very political and midlife. He sort of gave me that particular bug early, okay. And watching him be invested in it obviously translated down to me. And then I did the student council thing, but I was I was always a Democrat and I was able to be president of college Democrats when I was at Muhlenberg.

00:22:28:03 – 00:22:43:57
Mike Schlossberg
And it was just something that’s always in some form or fashion with me, because I have always believed that government can do great things and that a well-run government can do great things for a populist. And that’s just where I’ve that has been my guiding principle throughout my entire career.

00:22:43:59 – 00:23:17:45
Agent Palmer
So I need to make maybe I don’t have to, but I feel like I have to, as the rest of the world has gotten more divisive, specifically, just in almost anything you could think of has being and you’ve you’ve been elected for a while. So it was not this polarizing. I’m not going to say it was a everybody, you know, saying when you started, but it has gotten more polarizing, has that.

00:23:17:45 – 00:23:18:36
Mike Schlossberg
A lot worse.

00:23:18:38 – 00:23:24:11
Agent Palmer
What what has that been like? As someone who is elected and is in the spotlight?

00:23:24:16 – 00:24:01:28
Mike Schlossberg
It’s pretty disheartening. I can’t lie. It’s not a great feeling to live with. It was it’s been bad. I was elected in 2012, Trump was elected in 2016. And that’s when things really flew off the deep end. But they were not by any stretch good before that. So it’s been bad really. I’ll say my entire career, Covid was really what took it to another level and a level that I think we still live at, because a combination of fear and the government didn’t always operate the way that it should, and a deeply toxic information environment really made people particularly ugly.

00:24:01:28 – 00:24:18:51
Mike Schlossberg
And it’s something that we still live with to this day. And unfortunately, we’ll continue to get worse thanks to the joys of social media. Yeah, and it’s been hard and it’s made this job harder. And it’s one of those things. It’s always in the back of your mind of, all right, what am I going to have enough? Because for me, I have I have no, no ambitions outside of the House of Representatives.

00:24:18:51 – 00:24:34:07
Mike Schlossberg
This is it for me. I just want to hang out here as long as the voters, my colleagues, will have me. But you do. Always in the back of your head is. When is that enough? When have I decided? All right. I don’t think I want to do this anymore. It’s not worth the price. I don’t know the answer yet because I still like it.

00:24:34:09 – 00:24:46:26
Mike Schlossberg
Run for reelection right now. As long as the voters will will keep me. I’d like to stay, but it is always something that’s in your. In the back of your head is when is enough enough. And I think any politician who says it’s not as lying.

00:24:46:28 – 00:25:13:53
Agent Palmer
So can I ask from your perspective and from the colleagues you’ve met, regardless of party? Yep. How common is it for someone at the state level to say, this is like I have? No, I mean, look, I will say greater ambition is is a misnomer because I think that you what you are doing to serve the public at any level is is a great and noble profession, regardless of party affiliation or anything.

00:25:13:53 – 00:25:25:23
Agent Palmer
But is it is it normal for people or how common is it for people to go? I’m comfortable at the state level because I can do good things for my home and not want to. It feels.

00:25:25:23 – 00:25:26:10
Mike Schlossberg
Like completely.

00:25:26:16 – 00:25:38:10
Agent Palmer
Well, it just feels like so many times people have a little bit of success and like they feel obligated to take that. Whatever the next step up is.

00:25:38:15 – 00:25:58:24
Mike Schlossberg
I think it’s still relatively common because you’ve got a lot of people now. There’s a lot of people who use state government as a stepping stone, and I don’t even really mean that in a bad way, because politicians are. But we are by nature ambitious. And I will, I will add, I said, I never said I wasn’t, I wasn’t ambitious, I just said I didn’t want another job outside of the House of Representatives.

00:25:58:28 – 00:26:20:37
Mike Schlossberg
I think it’s relatively common still because you can like, this is a full time job, you can do a lot of good and you can also understand very quickly this is I don’t want to do anything more than this or get this. So I think it’s actually relatively common. But I also think there’s a lot of people who go in thinking that get a taste of power, slash the spotlight and go, oh, wait a minute.

00:26:20:39 – 00:26:40:19
Mike Schlossberg
This is a lot of fun. I was just kidding. I want more. Which and I say that with no shade because ambition is not a bad thing. Unbridled ambition. Unfocused ambition. Ambition that’s disconnected from your talent. That’s a bad thing. Yeah, but I don’t necessarily think ambition in and of itself is a bad thing. Because ambition means you want might.

00:26:40:21 – 00:26:45:09
Mike Schlossberg
At its best, I should say ambition means you want to do more, and that’s a good thing.

00:26:45:11 – 00:26:50:11
Agent Palmer
So you’ve been I guess you’re a veteran now.

00:26:50:16 – 00:26:54:18
Mike Schlossberg
I am actually in the house, which is still very strange to me, but I’m definitely a veteran.

00:26:54:20 – 00:27:26:28
Agent Palmer
You are. You’ve seen new people come in, you know, both prepared and unprepared, I’m sure, because I it does feel sometimes, especially on the local and regional levels, that a lot of people and look, in full disclosure, I edit and produce the Good Government podcast, and we focused on state representatives and county government, and it feels like a lot of people that get involved get involved for one reason.

00:27:26:30 – 00:27:30:32
Agent Palmer
They’re they’re very much a one issue ticket, so to.

00:27:30:32 – 00:27:31:18
Mike Schlossberg
Speak, all the time.

00:27:31:20 – 00:27:47:27
Agent Palmer
And then they get in and they realize that, okay. But like you may have you may have run on transportation, but like there are other things that are required of you. Is there a is there a deer in headlights for a portion of people or do.

00:27:47:27 – 00:28:06:40
Mike Schlossberg
They drink from the fire hose? Is a pretty common expression in my line of work, especially when you first walk in the door and you suddenly become more popular than you ever really intended and ever really should. Like. That’s that’s pretty common for what I do. Okay? And that’s like, if you know, you’re going to be drinking from a fire hose, that’s cool.

00:28:06:40 – 00:28:26:22
Mike Schlossberg
You can that’s something that you can adjust to. But it’s definitely a very real challenge for people when they start this line of work, and especially for people who maybe didn’t have the kind of governmental experience or managerial experience you’ve got a lot of people who start this job when they’re very young. They might not know what it’s like to manage people.

00:28:26:24 – 00:28:45:16
Mike Schlossberg
You’ve got a lot of people who had a lot of business success or legal success, but that doesn’t necessarily translate to governmental success. And so all of those challenges are definitely real and something that people have to adjust to. The best members. I say I’m not the only one people smarter than me say, but like the best members are always staff.

00:28:45:18 – 00:28:59:29
Mike Schlossberg
It’s always the people that know exactly what they got themselves into and worked in a district office previously because they know what the job entails and they know who’s really in charge, which is staff. It’s always staff. They’re actually building to the operation. I’ll never argue otherwise.

00:28:59:30 – 00:29:06:53
Agent Palmer
So this circles back to based on everything you just described, everybody needs an outlet.

00:29:06:55 – 00:29:17:33
Mike Schlossberg
Absolutely. And if you and you have to know that right away, especially this job can sometimes be low stress. More often than not, it’s pretty high stress. And if you’re not prepared for that, you’re going to suffer.

00:29:17:33 – 00:29:31:30
Agent Palmer
When did you know writing was going to be? I mean, you talked about playing video games and other and, you know, other things, right? Like it’s not like writing was your only thing. But when did you know, like writing was going to be an outlet?

00:29:31:35 – 00:29:48:05
Mike Schlossberg
You know, it was around the time I wrote my first book, the nonfiction book that was just a side hustle that was just for fun. Z’s the fiction book redemption. I wrote that at a time where I was really miserable. The job, the stress of the job and real life had gotten wildly out of control, and I was really struggling to manage it.

00:29:48:05 – 00:30:05:14
Mike Schlossberg
And so redemption was part of my effort to manage it. Okay. And that’s really what turned it into an outlet originally for me was that it was just I was miserable at the time, and I needed a way to put some thoughts on the paper and distract myself. And it also, frankly, it gave me a sense of control.

00:30:05:16 – 00:30:25:12
Mike Schlossberg
Now it’s a different political universe than when I first wrote redemption. Redemption was 2018, I want to say, and different political universe in a trillion different ways, but not the least of which is that we were in the minority at the time. So when you’re in the minority in a in a legislative body, I’m not going to say you have no power, but your power is extremely limited.

00:30:25:15 – 00:30:50:25
Mike Schlossberg
Now that change in 2022 for me, when Democrats took control of the House, which we still have, but when you’re in the minority, you’re voting on potentially really painful, miserable stuff that would do your constituents a lot of harm. And you go into Harrisburg every day knowing that you’re going to have to be miserable and put in terrible situations and uselessly flail as you try to stop legislation that could do your constituents a world of pain.

00:30:50:25 – 00:31:10:36
Mike Schlossberg
And that sucks. And it wasn’t fun and so costly. Being in that situation is, you know, not ideal. And when you feel like you were never in control, the writing was one of the ways that I could channel that sense and try to put myself in a position of control and get, you know, put pen to paper and try to get some semblance of normalcy in my life.

00:31:10:38 – 00:31:23:45
Agent Palmer
That begs the question, which is, how long did it take you to realize this was working? Like, was it the first, you know, you got a couple hundred words in and you were like, oh, this feels or, you know, was it longer or like.

00:31:23:50 – 00:31:42:05
Mike Schlossberg
Good question. I think it was right. You know what? I think it was as soon as I started writing and I need, you know, characters outline. I need all that on paper or I’m absolutely screwed. And as soon as I started writing, I was like, oh, this is really fun. I like this. And that made life so much easier.

00:31:42:10 – 00:31:53:33
Mike Schlossberg
But and then as it gave me, you know, if if the job turned miserable, you try to figure out a way out of it, you manage it the best you can, and then you go home at night. Like. All right. Where’s my damn book? Where am I in it right now?

00:31:53:36 – 00:32:01:28
Agent Palmer
Now? Like, how much of the like as an example, video games. Do you have to give up? Can you still play a little or you.

00:32:01:28 – 00:32:16:27
Mike Schlossberg
Can play a little and you know, and it’s like anything else, it depends on the moment. There’s moments like, I can’t I don’t have it in me tonight, man. I just need to sit down and run some things over in Grand Theft Auto. And that’s okay. Like, I never want to. I never want to beat myself up for doing that.

00:32:16:27 – 00:32:27:58
Mike Schlossberg
But at the same time, you have to be realistic and, okay, you can do that. Just know, then don’t beat yourself up about it. You just means you’re not getting any writing done tonight. And going easy on myself is not something I’ve ever really specialized in.

00:32:27:58 – 00:32:52:56
Agent Palmer
So I think well, but that but that doesn’t. That’s just being a creative, right? Like, I mean, I spend a lot of time talking to creatives about process. And one of the things that always comes out is that we are always horrible to ourselves, more or less like, and it’s one of those weird things where like, it’s a weird dichotomy because it’s not only are we horrible to ourselves, but we’re still the first people to help someone else.

00:32:52:59 – 00:33:05:27
Agent Palmer
Like, yeah, Mike, you want to ask me for help? I’m going to be easier on you than I will ever be on myself. And that’s just being a creative, right? That’s that comes with the territory. It’s it’s horrible.

00:33:05:29 – 00:33:09:41
Mike Schlossberg
But understood completely. And it’s that neuroses. It always really drives you.

00:33:09:46 – 00:33:20:19
Agent Palmer
That’s true. So you finished. Let’s talk about redemption for a moment here. You finished the first manuscript? Yep. Were you prepared for the editing process?

00:33:20:23 – 00:33:38:39
Mike Schlossberg
Yes. Because I went through once before on a nonfiction book, which is a little bit more painful, actually, no. You know, no, it wasn’t because the section book is much more emotional. So that’s that’s more meaningful in a personal way. Now, I’m lucky, I guess, in that I take criticism relatively well. So I was okay. I was like, let’s do this.

00:33:38:39 – 00:34:06:57
Mike Schlossberg
Let’s, let’s make this work. And fortunately, I had wonderful editors, have wonderful editors, and they were really, really good at getting that book into a better position. I’d never written sci fi before, I’d never written time travel before. And it just like it was a hell of a lot more complicated than I realized. And that’s actually the the editing was helpful in a thousand ways, but the one that really strikes me the most is that it helped me better respect the because I wasn’t doing a good enough job of like, okay, ships don’t work that way, or things don’t fly like that.

00:34:06:57 – 00:34:23:24
Mike Schlossberg
And now and looking at the second manuscript again and realizing it’s just not where I need it to be, it’s great. And I’m grateful for it. And because it’s really hard to take your ego out and it’s like, oh, that wasn’t nice. But if your goal is to write something meaningful, you have to be capable of doing that.

00:34:23:24 – 00:34:24:15
Mike Schlossberg
And that’s what I’m trying.

00:34:24:15 – 00:34:56:13
Agent Palmer
To do. So when you finish the first book, I know it was. I remember it being like book one of or part one of something like that. Yeah. So obviously you expected there would be more. Yeah. Were you expecting that? You would then you know that that fizzles. Were you expecting another book to come along or were you always you know when when does as an example, when does almost end of the world come into your brain when you’ve already got this series slowly remembered?

00:34:56:15 – 00:35:01:10
Mike Schlossberg
You know, that’s I don’t remember when that book idea popped into my head, but.

00:35:01:10 – 00:35:03:17
Agent Palmer
You didn’t have it all along, right? Like.

00:35:03:17 – 00:35:19:48
Mike Schlossberg
No, it felt like it was always there, but I definitely did not have it all along. I have absolutely no recollection of one that held that book popped into my head. I’m grateful for it. But when it did come in, I was like, oh, that’s kind of a new twist. The world ended. Now what? Oh, okay. Or the world didn’t end.

00:35:19:50 – 00:35:35:25
Mike Schlossberg
Now what I should say, excuse me. And it just kind of flowed from there. And now, you know, now knowing that I have the opportunity or not, the opportunity that I have the obligation to market the first book and then turn that into the second book, like, that’s pretty wild.

00:35:35:27 – 00:35:50:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I ask hesitantly, I guess, because obviously you’ve got enough on your plate both for the passion and for the profession. But would you ever consider writing another nonfiction, or is fiction? Are you a fiction writer now?

00:35:50:55 – 00:36:06:59
Mike Schlossberg
No, I definitely do it again. But the mood would have to strike me because the fiction stuff I really, really enjoy. You can you can do incredible things with any sort of writing, with any sort of creativity. But I have really enjoyed being a fiction writer and talking about the topics that I’ve been lucky enough to talk about.

00:36:06:59 – 00:36:12:54
Mike Schlossberg
So that’s where my my heart is right now. If that ever changed, I’d do it. But that’s where my heart is, I think.

00:36:12:56 – 00:36:34:24
Agent Palmer
And then I do want to ask about the young adult part, and I, I have been, I guess, a young adult dabbler, for the last at least decade now, right where, like I would, I have picked up books that are specifically not for me or demographically, not for me. And I’ve enjoyed them. Like, and I just, I just, I just have.

00:36:34:26 – 00:36:39:31
Agent Palmer
Was that a conscious effort at the beginning or did it evolve into that?

00:36:39:31 – 00:37:00:58
Mike Schlossberg
So the thing about young adults is that close to a majority or 50% of readers aren’t young adults themselves, and I think a well-written young adult book can be enjoyed by anybody. Because I mean, first of all, we all remember what that age was like. And you’re because of the period of transition and some experiences that I think just about every young adult has.

00:37:01:01 – 00:37:24:45
Mike Schlossberg
And what a meaningful, foundational point in your life it is. I think anybody can potentially read Young Adult and have it go, well, I wish I could completely hammer down why I come back to that. I think probably because of what I just said, that it’s such a dramatic period. You can really achieve some really inspirational things with it.

00:37:24:47 – 00:37:54:19
Mike Schlossberg
I also think every writer is probably trying to address stuff that happened to their lives. Like, I think a lot of young adult writing is wish fulfillment or alternate scenario exploration. I certainly know that. I wish in a lot of ways, I was more like the two characters that I’ve written, who themselves, I’d like to think are better versions of me, and I’d be really curious to talk to other young adult writers and know, like, okay, guys, how much of your writing is actually just a different version of you now?

00:37:54:19 – 00:38:29:46
Agent Palmer
Now I’m now that’s officially in my quiver next time I have a young adult on because that it’s such a great point. And I also think that there is a exactly because of the massive changes all at once. There are some generalizations you can make that at that point in anyone’s life that hold, that will then reemerge. When you lose a job, when you get in a relationship, when you lose a relationship, like all of those periods of change happen to all of us within like that.

00:38:29:46 – 00:38:46:30
Agent Palmer
For high school, more or less time, you get your first job, you lose your first job, your first. Yeah, all of that. Those generalizations work beyond which is probably why all of us that are older and out of the demographic can still go back and read that stuff and enjoy it.

00:38:46:42 – 00:38:47:21
Mike Schlossberg
Definitely.

00:38:47:25 – 00:38:48:54
Agent Palmer
We’re not that far removed.

00:38:48:57 – 00:39:03:39
Mike Schlossberg
Yeah. I think I wonder sometimes how much all of us still feel like young adults, especially like in our generation. I think there’s a period. There’s there’s a good portion of us that will always feel, I don’t want to say stuck there, because that’s kind of insulting.

00:39:03:39 – 00:39:15:14
Agent Palmer
But like, no, I like I think that so when I have an answer to this question, but I’m going to ask you first in your mind, how old are you?

00:39:15:19 – 00:39:35:32
Mike Schlossberg
Great question. I think like the vast majority of millennials, I still to wake up and I think I’m in my late teens or my early 20s, despite the fact that I arguably adult relatively well. I think, you know, the bills are paid. My my kids are they’re doing all right. Like, you still feel that way. And I definitely wonder if that’s a generational construct to an extent.

00:39:35:32 – 00:39:43:34
Mike Schlossberg
You know, my mom’s obviously older. And she was saying to me, how am I this old? I still feel so young. And it makes me wonder how long this ceiling holds for.

00:39:43:36 – 00:40:07:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I think that well, I do think it’s generational and I think we’ve passed it down. I think when you talk about the reasons you ran and wanting to make the world a better place, I think one of the other things, which is a, a maybe an amendment to that thought, is that it took us a little bit as, as millennials or elder millennials or whatever.

00:40:07:21 – 00:40:30:05
Agent Palmer
We are right. It took us a little bit longer to get the first real job, and it took us a little bit longer to get the first house right, like when you and and peek behind the curtain where we’re recording this on Memorial Day. And when I think about my grandparents, all of whom the at least all my grandpa, both my, all my grandfathers were, were in the service.

00:40:30:07 – 00:40:54:24
Agent Palmer
And then they got out of the service, got married and bought a house before I even left my parents house after moving back after college. Right. Like they were so set in their ways that by the time I’m, you know, I think I think I was one of the lucky ones in our generation. Happenstance worked that by the time I’m 30, 31, I owned a house, right.

00:40:54:30 – 00:41:13:53
Agent Palmer
Which is for our cohort. But at the same time, you know, that happened to our grandparents at 24, right? Like, and I think there’s an amount of that where we’re holding that baggage of like we were we had a three in front of our age before we were out of the house. Right? Or before we were professionally where we wanted to be.

00:41:13:56 – 00:41:15:43
Mike Schlossberg
Recession killed a lot of us. Yeah, yeah.

00:41:15:50 – 00:41:37:54
Agent Palmer
So I think there’s an amount of that, which is maybe, I don’t want to say stifled, but has held our mental age back in check because I still think I’m more or less 22, you know, like that’s that’s where my age is in my brain. And when I every year and look, I, I have a 16 month old so I don’t run like I used to.

00:41:37:56 – 00:41:56:21
Agent Palmer
But before I became a father, I used to run right whenever it was warm, basically. Right. And the first week of running after the winter, because I’m not a winter runner, was always a shock to the system because it’s like, I, I remember what this is like, and that’s not what I’m going through right now.

00:41:56:33 – 00:41:57:24
Mike Schlossberg
Right, right.

00:41:57:26 – 00:42:13:20
Agent Palmer
But I always fooled myself. Every year is my that’s my point. Like every year, every spring, that first 70 degree day, I’d put on my shorts, I’d put on my shoes, I’d hit, I’d go out fast. And then like a half mile, a mile in, I’m like, what? You’re not 20 anymore. Like, I know.

00:42:13:20 – 00:42:14:39
Mike Schlossberg
That all of my decisions.

00:42:14:42 – 00:42:37:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I know that. But yet I, I do it every time I still I don’t I. Is it a little delusional maybe on our behalf I don’t know. But like, I do feel that like I’m there. Right. Just somehow and I, I always go back to I know it was Marc Maron who said it when I first encountered this concept, but he’s not, I think, the originator.

00:42:37:02 – 00:42:52:28
Agent Palmer
He always said that one of the reasons he doesn’t feel old is because he doesn’t have kids. So the passage of time to him is vastly different. But, you know, I don’t feel any older because I now I’m now a dad, right? Like I don’t yeah.

00:42:52:28 – 00:43:15:53
Mike Schlossberg
And I don’t like I have a 15 year old and a 13 year old and I feel I feel younger with them. I think they keep me young because you watch them and you feel connected to their generation, and you kind of use that to draw back on your own. Now, I don’t that they having kids, I don’t I definitely don’t agree with that statement because having kids has made me younger, if definitely not older.

00:43:15:53 – 00:43:17:31
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s something to look forward to.

00:43:17:33 – 00:43:38:56
Mike Schlossberg
Yeah. Yeah I feel like I look at them and, and and especially, you know, we my wife and I, we had them relatively young. I was 26. One of my son was born something like that. And that that is I’m grateful for that because it kept me connected, I think to them, to their generation in a way that I don’t think I would have otherwise.

00:43:38:58 – 00:43:48:10
Agent Palmer
Okay. And was there I mean, I can ask this, was there any thought when you were writing for Young Adult? Like, I can write this for my kids?

00:43:48:15 – 00:44:08:04
Mike Schlossberg
Yeah. It batted around always. And that’s kind of a fun thought. Like, hey, maybe my kids will actually read my damn book, which is gonna have to work on that. I always, I have always in both redemption and this and almost now I’ve snuck in my kids in a way, I found a way to to get to get their names into the book.

00:44:08:06 – 00:44:18:22
Agent Palmer
Nice, nice. So, you know, obviously, I would say almost is contemporary fiction. I want to say, yeah, redemption is science fiction.

00:44:18:27 – 00:44:19:39
Mike Schlossberg
Absolutely.

00:44:19:44 – 00:44:23:15
Agent Palmer
You know, are you going to hit the trifecta and go for fantasy at some point?

00:44:23:17 – 00:44:25:08
Mike Schlossberg
No, I could, you know, and.

00:44:25:08 – 00:44:45:59
Mike Schlossberg
It is funny looking at redemption going like I could never do time travel books again. Like, how did I even what am I what like? Because it got really complicated to try to manage your own damn timeline, and that is just not something I could ever see myself doing again. No, And fantasy. I can’t even conceive of how I write fantasy, and I enjoy reading it.

00:44:46:02 – 00:44:51:13
Mike Schlossberg
Sometimes. I’m not as big a fantasy reader as other genres, but like, I just I couldn’t get there.

00:44:51:13 – 00:44:53:01
Agent Palmer
So what are you reading.

00:44:53:04 – 00:44:54:23
Mike Schlossberg
At the moment? Dungeon crawler.

00:44:54:23 – 00:44:56:44
Agent Palmer
Carl okay, okay.

00:44:56:49 – 00:45:19:14
Mike Schlossberg
Relatively popular series about it’s basically a video game series about a guy who his version of Earth suffers from a massive alien invasion, and he becomes trapped in a dungeon that’s actually a an intergalactic television show. It’s lit RPG. It’s the same kind of a video game that I tend to like, okay? And it’s really, really enjoyable.

00:45:19:14 – 00:45:25:28
Mike Schlossberg
And there’s a lot of nerds out there like, oh, cool, dungeon crawler. Call the new ones out right now. I’m firing my way through it.

00:45:25:30 – 00:45:30:06
Agent Palmer
It’s wonderful. I it’s it’s on my list. I.

00:45:30:13 – 00:45:32:30
Mike Schlossberg
Well worth the read. I’m a huge fan. Truly.

00:45:32:30 – 00:45:55:02
Agent Palmer
I think my wife will attack it before I do. But in our house, because of the limited bookshelf space, I am very much in on this current quest. And many months ago I wrote a very, very, very long blog post about purging all my books and how I’m doing it in the slowest way possible by reading all of them and deciding.

00:45:55:05 – 00:45:56:00
Mike Schlossberg
Well, that’s the right way to do it.

00:45:56:05 – 00:46:09:49
Agent Palmer
At least to choose to keep based on that. And we very much have a I have pared down the library, so to speak, in a way that we have the space for a one in, one out scenario.

00:46:09:54 – 00:46:10:35
Mike Schlossberg
Nice.

00:46:10:35 – 00:46:29:39
Agent Palmer
There’s no more room for more bookshelves, by the way, for anybody listening who’s like, just get more bookshelves. No, I mean, we are maxed, but we are at a one in, one out. And I think that that’s, you know, a place where she will take advantage. And we those books will be in, in, in my house soon, I’m sure.

00:46:29:46 – 00:46:40:09
Agent Palmer
There you go. Do you. I mean, aside from all of the articles and nonfiction that you read for work, do you enjoy nonfiction as well?

00:46:40:14 – 00:46:47:21
Mike Schlossberg
I actually do, and I try. I’m not always successful in it, but I try to go back and forth between fiction and nonfiction. That’s I.

00:46:47:25 – 00:46:50:49
Agent Palmer
I’m, I’m, I’m with you one one and then the other, if you can.

00:46:50:52 – 00:47:09:15
Mike Schlossberg
Yep. And it’s it’s not. And especially because there’s so much Sitchin that I’m trying to read, and especially now I haven’t read a ton of young adult recently, but I’ve been like, oh no, I really need to see how I’m literally writing it. So I try to read more, but I do read a lot of nonfiction. Now I have to remind myself, what the hell was the last nonfiction book that I read?

00:47:09:22 – 00:47:17:50
Mike Schlossberg
I know I’ve read something. Oh, that was a really, really good book about the way that the internet is turned into a profit center that tries to squeeze us all dry.

00:47:17:52 – 00:47:23:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I didn’t read that, but it has come across my radar. Yeah.

00:47:23:47 – 00:47:25:35
Mike Schlossberg
Great book. Really great book.

00:47:25:38 – 00:47:30:49
Agent Palmer
All right. Well, I, you know, I’ll put it on the list. And when I find my next one to.

00:47:30:54 – 00:47:32:06
Mike Schlossberg
The shelf space for it apparently.

00:47:32:08 – 00:47:53:45
Agent Palmer
Yep. When I get the, you know, whenever the next book goes out, I will add that although I think dungeon crawler Carl will probably preempt, anything else at this point that I. And I’m fine with it. Look, I yeah, I’m reading I’m reading a lot of stuff, obviously, because, you know, anybody who’s a reader collects a lot of books and it’s just.

00:47:53:45 – 00:47:53:57
Mike Schlossberg
Like.

00:47:54:09 – 00:48:16:46
Agent Palmer
You should. Some of these are. I’m not sure why I have them or how they got here or any of that stuff, but I’m reading them nonetheless. You know, it’s it’s also a way to save a little money. I’ve already got the books here. Why? So did you ever do, like, workshops have as this always been a you know, when I get a chance at 11:00 at night, I sit down and write or, you know,

00:48:16:51 – 00:48:34:29
Mike Schlossberg
Yeah. And I don’t like the only real I mean, besides the obvious, which is, you know, doing classes in high school and then college, that was about it. In terms of formal training as a politician, I’ve always been able to write and figure out how to write, to communicate, and thank God for that. But I never did anything more formal than that.

00:48:34:31 – 00:48:37:09
Mike Schlossberg
And it’s a couple of is master class is still around.

00:48:37:12 – 00:48:46:28
Agent Palmer
I believe it is, but it’s not. I think it got swallowed up by the amount of classes that are free on YouTube.

00:48:46:30 – 00:48:59:13
Mike Schlossberg
Right. How do you compete with that on YouTube? With all the free information that’s on YouTube these days, although that like I did pay for that for a while and the information was really good, it was totally worth it. It was from real writers and they had some legitimate information there.

00:48:59:15 – 00:49:17:43
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I like to think that conversations like this are the new DVD extras for books, because when else? What, like when else is someone going to explain their writing process? Like you don’t get a book and then get to click on a thing and go like, oh, and this is how I wrote this book.

00:49:17:48 – 00:49:19:33
Mike Schlossberg
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:49:19:36 – 00:49:41:22
Agent Palmer
But that’s one of the reasons I like talking to authors as well, because obviously as a blogger it’s a very different process and it’s a much smaller process. So it’s it’s almost a different universe of writing. Like, I don’t know where I begin in something that big, but it’s also why I like to talk, because I know that, like, were you a strike out?

00:49:41:25 – 00:49:54:31
Agent Palmer
Like, I know we talked about how your energy level, at the end of the day, whether it’s video games or writing, but like if you got inspired in a moment, are you going to try and, you know, sit down and scribble out as much as you can?

00:49:54:36 – 00:50:11:04
Mike Schlossberg
Yeah. And thank God for voice memos. Every now and then I’ll be thinking, be like, oh, I know how it could help Jamison to run less like, you know, you kind of do one of those. Okay. For which I’m eternally grateful, though I will say, I typically when I’m doing free writing, I’ll go back and forth between the computer and actually handwriting.

00:50:11:04 – 00:50:16:20
Mike Schlossberg
I think there’s something really to be said about, you know, pen to paper and using your hand. It makes life a lot better sometimes.

00:50:16:23 – 00:50:36:33
Agent Palmer
Oh, God, I think it is. I mean, I have started to do a little bit more with that because it’s so easy to go. I need to check this fact and one Google search. And now you’ve spent a half hour on the internet not writing versus like, I will come back to this later and I will just keep writing on this pad.

00:50:36:36 – 00:50:48:42
Mike Schlossberg
Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s where the ad comes. The ADHD brain starts to kick in and you get completely fixated on something. And then three hours later, like, look at that. The sunset. Oh, that.

00:50:48:42 – 00:51:09:07
Agent Palmer
Happened now can you. You’re a you’re a you’re a state public servant, not a national public servant and not a local public servant. Also, can you go to a cafe or the grocery store without being bombarded the way like a like a governor or maybe a mayor would?

00:51:09:10 – 00:51:27:57
Mike Schlossberg
Absolutely. And very good distinction. Also an accurate one, because if I was the mayor, it would be a very, very different conversation. But I definitely I like and that’s, that’s what people expected at this job. You remember the community. So you go out all the time. Now people often recognize me and will say something which is great. What are we here for?

00:51:27:59 – 00:51:46:20
Mike Schlossberg
And that’s you understand that that comes with the territory. And it’s funny, my wife and I joked about it in the beginning of the job. When I was elected, the city council was like, well, always going to have to look good. Now, when I go to the grocery store, we’re always going to have to look put together. And now I’m a state representative in my 40s and the officer breaking House Democrats like, oh, I got to go to target my comb, my hair.

00:51:46:24 – 00:52:08:28
Mike Schlossberg
No, no, I just you, you one don’t care. But two also understand that people actually want, more than anything else, a politician who is one of them and who’s approachable like them and who has the same problems as them. People are desperate for that transparency right now, and they’re so desperate for that transparency that they’ve allowed a lot of snake oil salesmen to lie about it.

00:52:08:30 – 00:52:16:01
Agent Palmer
So if I were to ask you to pick a word that describes you public servant or politician.

00:52:16:03 – 00:52:37:14
Mike Schlossberg
The truth is that you use both of them. But I clearly would prefer public servant because politician has all the negative connotations. But you know, it shouldn’t. Yeah, because policy be okay. So when people hear the word politician, they think of somebody who’s disingenuous. And that’s not true. They think of somebody who cares a lot about counting votes and raising money.

00:52:37:14 – 00:52:59:54
Mike Schlossberg
That that’s true. And any politician who can’t raise money is probably not going to be a very good politician. They think about somebody who’s constantly campaigning. Well that’s true. Yeah. But that’s the nature of the system. That’s our democracy. We’re constantly campaigning. I don’t think the the word politician should have the negative connotations that it does. And public servant sounds a heck of a lot more aspirational, but, you know, it is what it is.

00:52:59:56 – 00:53:13:26
Agent Palmer
So if I were to tell you to choose like your money is, your financial situation is officially taken care of, right? But you have a fork in the road right now, writer, public servant, which direction you’re going to go?

00:53:13:29 – 00:53:38:30
Mike Schlossberg
I’d still I’d still be a public servant. Okay. Because that’s the job. I am driven, I think, I think, and I hope most of us are driven by the idea of doing the most good in the world. So in a situation where the money is actually taking care of, I’d still I would choose this. Probably even, well, not like being a writer, financially lucrative, but I would still do this because you can do a lot of good in this job.

00:53:38:30 – 00:54:07:13
Mike Schlossberg
You can do a lot of good in this job, and you can do a lot of good with writing. But I enjoy being a politician. It’s fun. You still get to interact with people on a regular basis. No two days are ever the same. Like literally no two days are ever the same. And just on a personal level, this job has given me some absolutely wild experiences that the vast majority of people don’t get to touch, and it’s given me some incredible sorrow, but also some incredible joy and an incredible sense of satisfaction and accomplishment.

00:54:07:21 – 00:54:14:06
Mike Schlossberg
I I’d love to be a writer full time one day, but right now I desperately love this job, I.

00:54:14:06 – 00:54:23:29
Mike Schlossberg
Really do.

00:54:23:34 – 00:54:25:10
Agent Palmer
As I record this outro.

00:54:25:10 – 00:54:46:02
Agent Palmer
To my left are for different to do lists. That’s for physical to do lists, which obviously doesn’t include the at least six digital to do lists that I can think of. Off the top of my head, when Mike was talking about the aspirational nature of to do lists, it got me thinking about what’s on those lists and why I have so many.

00:54:46:04 – 00:55:11:58
Agent Palmer
So I’ll tell you, the physical ones are either ongoing projects or lists of ideas that need to be saved. These are things like potential podcast guests or future blog posts, or a breakdown of some larger or more complex project. The digital ones are often what become of those physical lists that can’t be completed within a few days. Why have a physically cluttered desk when you can add to your digital clutter?

00:55:12:00 – 00:55:32:59
Agent Palmer
Don’t answer that. Anyway, I understand the nature of the aspirational to do list, but that doesn’t mean you’ll never get to the end. It just means you aren’t there yet. And take note from Mike. You can do the hard things like writing and publishing an original work of fiction while holding down a demanding day job and keeping your family responsibilities.

00:55:32:59 – 00:55:58:48
Agent Palmer
You just have to game less. Time management is important, but perhaps of the utmost importance is priorities. Not only is writing Mike’s Outlet so it’s a healthy endeavor for him, it is also a priority for him, so he makes time for it. Understanding your own priorities can make time management easier to manage, though it does not necessarily make it easy.

00:55:58:55 – 00:56:20:34
Agent Palmer
And remember, unless you are also a public servant and thank you. If you are, you probably don’t have to ask the public for your job every few years. So remember, he’s got that on top of everything else. So find your passion and do it. Okay? Maybe make a list of priorities and manage your time first. Then do it.

00:56:20:39 – 00:56:47:21
Agent Palmer
You’ll be happy you did. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 183. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact Mike or myself in the show notes. There are. If you look up Schlossberg on Agent Palmer links to my spoiler free reviews of both redemption, which I am excited, may come back and almost the end of the world.

00:56:47:23 – 00:57:08:48
Agent Palmer
You can connect with Mike at Mike Schlossberg, author. And while you’re there, order yourself a copy of one or both of these books. Also, that site would be a good source of information about any future books of the many he’s working on that come to publish. The music for this episode was provided by Hannah Hayter. Email and comments can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com.

00:57:08:48 – 00:57:58:02
Agent Palmer
And remember your home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent Palmer.

00:57:58:07 – 00:58:00:07
Agent Palmer
All right, Mike, do you have one final question for me?

00:58:00:09 – 00:58:05:50
Mike Schlossberg
What have you learned about politics and public service? Not just from me, but from your podcast in general?

00:58:05:54 – 00:58:40:57
Agent Palmer
I you know what? One of the things I’ve learned the most is that people are surprisingly dumb when it comes to the big, flashy thing and looking the wrong direction. I find that look specifically because of the Good Government show, and it’s it’s a national show, I guess, international. We’ve talked to some Canadian mayors, but mainly it’s mayors and, you know, county commissioners, and we’ve done some some governors, but it’s really local government.

00:58:40:59 – 00:59:14:55
Agent Palmer
And what people are doing and the pitch has always been, these are the people that are making a difference in your life. Like drastically every day. They are paving your roads. They’re making sure your trash picked up. That’s what they’re doing. And it always amazes me that it feels like the more I learn about these people that are as passionate as anything, or maybe more passionate than anyone else because they live in and amongst their constituents, they, you know, when they’re their mayors that can’t, they can go out to dinner.

00:59:14:55 – 00:59:20:16
Agent Palmer
But it’s not necessarily like you and me going out to dinner, right?

00:59:20:19 – 00:59:22:09
Mike Schlossberg
Like they’re going to lot harder.

00:59:22:11 – 00:59:49:17
Agent Palmer
They’re going to get bombarded. And they, they and they embrace that. And it it’s the part where I, I say like, why? Why is everybody looking at the big flashy thing? I know president is a very, you know, a big role and and and Senator you know and representative these are big thing governor these are big roles. But on a whole while they affect your life, we should show up in it should be the reverse.

00:59:49:17 – 01:00:10:30
Agent Palmer
We should show up more for down ballot votes, because those are the people that are paving your street or not paving your street. The president has a lot of control over funds and money, but it’s your local county commissioner that is going to take that money and pave your street. And that’s the thing that always shocks me the most is how I don’t want to use the word ignorant.

01:00:10:30 – 01:00:34:21
Agent Palmer
I think they’re just they look at the shiny thing, the, the big national races get the press and the TV air and the radio air and all the talking points. None of those people really, really have such an impact on your life as the down ballot stuff, which look and I think maybe we do a maybe we do a disservice.

01:00:34:31 – 01:01:01:10
Agent Palmer
I’m not a media person, but like the media by saying down ballot, right? It makes it seem less important. But for people who live in your neighborhood and who impact your neighborhood, it couldn’t be more important. And that’s the thing I’ve learned is that these people that run for these positions are fantastically, like, passionate about something, even if they are those one issue people.

01:01:01:10 – 01:01:15:38
Agent Palmer
But yet as a constituency, whether it’s, you know, city or county, we just can never get ourselves up for these things that will have the biggest impact on our life.

01:01:15:41 – 01:01:36:56
Mike Schlossberg
Absolutely. And it’s a real frustration of mine, especially as we try to push people out to vote for school board or county executive or county commissioner, which is arguably the like the bottom of the totem pole office. Yeah, that people don’t understand. Like your school board member is going to have a heck of a lot more direct of an impact than anybody at the, you know, state or federal level.

01:01:36:58 – 01:01:40:13
Mike Schlossberg
And trying to remind people that is really, really important.

01:01:40:15 – 01:02:17:25
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And that’s I think that’s part of it. And the other part is most people are in it for noble reasons, like it doesn’t matter what the what the, you know, the letter next to their name is or the color associated with their party or whatever. Most people are like, I and and for better or worse, most people on that lows, local levels are running on one issue I want, I don’t know, garbage to be picked up more regularly like and that’s their issue and that’s what they’re going to run on and they might win, but you don’t know what else you know.

01:02:17:27 – 01:02:39:02
Agent Palmer
And so these things are vastly so important. And it’s just I don’t know I think that’s the thing I’ve learned the most about it is just how how much influence they have and how little we regard them for it. Like, it’s not like we don’t know. Everybody knows the mayor and they will, you know, do whatever they do, you know, when they see them in public either hi, how you doing?

01:02:39:02 – 01:03:05:15
Agent Palmer
Or hey, my things. You know, this is not, you know, whatever. But we still don’t show up in droves for the election part or the primary part of those positions. We just absolutely. We just don’t. And I don’t know what the disconnect is. I don’t know if it was better before, like, you know, meaning like, you know, when we were in middle school, we’re where our parents better at showing up for the down ballot.

01:03:05:17 – 01:03:14:12
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I just I just know that right now, on a whole, we’re probably doing very poorly in that. And that’s the part.

01:03:14:14 – 01:03:28:35
Mike Schlossberg
Yeah. It’s so hard to show people like real information that I think people forget just how important that local stuff is, and they don’t see it because they’re too distracted by the shiny object, which might be whatever is on fire in Iran right now.

01:03:28:37 – 01:03:29:43
Agent Palmer
Well, and that’s.

01:03:29:45 – 01:03:30:44
Mike Schlossberg
That’s, that’s frustrating.

01:03:30:47 – 01:03:52:22
Agent Palmer
And that’s the other part is I think that, you know, not for nothing but the lack of good local journalism and print media. I mean, look, I like journalists. I, I there was a well, in college, I was a journalist. It was a minor for me. I wrote for the paper. I was a big fish and a little pond as a reporter.

01:03:52:22 – 01:04:11:32
Agent Palmer
And I’ll be honest, at that time I made a decision like, this is not career for me. Like, I don’t want to do this for real. And, well, look, journalism is a career is not like the what it used to be.

01:04:11:37 – 01:04:12:06
Mike Schlossberg
It’s not the.

01:04:12:06 – 01:04:35:31
Agent Palmer
Truth or even what it would have been 20 years ago, 20 plus years ago when I would have graduated. I, I do think that someone who’s curious and who still does it to find the story, you know, that’s that’s missing. And I think that that’s part of maybe why some of the local stuff gets missed, because we’re not writing about it.

01:04:35:31 – 01:04:54:25
Agent Palmer
There’s been a conglomeration of media such that we can write about your governor, and we can write about your two senators and however many representatives you have. And unless somebody in a scandal on the state or local level, you’ll we won’t talk about them except that they won or lost the election.

01:04:54:27 – 01:05:18:21
Mike Schlossberg
Especially if they’re just doing normal things like working on data center regulations or smoothing out and like you don’t, you only hear about our level when things go wrong or when people are ticked. And I don’t mind people being ticked or people hearing about when things go wrong is what we’re supposed to do. But the problem is that most of the time things are pretty normal and right, and people don’t hear about that.

01:05:18:24 – 01:05:41:13
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah, it’s God, I’m going to get this wrong. And my friend who’s going to listen to this is going to hate me. But there’s that episode of Futurama because I’ll, I always go here, this is the thing. And it, it, it works in politics. And it because I used to run a little it Bender has an entire society on him, the robot.

01:05:41:13 – 01:06:04:11
Agent Palmer
And he’s floating in space. And after he kills them all through the whole episode, he actually runs into God and God. He’s like, I don’t know what happened. And God’s like, yeah, you were doing really well until they all died. And God’s like. The point is, when you when they don’t know you’re doing anything, you’re doing okay. Like no one knows.

01:06:04:14 – 01:06:25:58
Agent Palmer
Like, so when when I was in it, the example would be I would do a lot of preventative stuff. And so when I never, I would say we need to do X, Y and Z. People would go, yeah, but it’s working fine. No, no that’s y. Yeah yeah yeah that’s why. Right. And so when things are going along smoothly that’s when we can cut things.

01:06:25:58 – 01:06:35:43
Agent Palmer
Because obviously we don’t need everything right. Like that’s where this level of ignorance is. Bliss comes in that I’m just like I, I just yeah.

01:06:35:48 – 01:06:36:45
Mike Schlossberg
Madness lies.

01:06:36:48 – 01:06:56:37
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I wish it was better. And I wish I didn’t have to go to Futurama. Being one of the more cynical, futuristic looks at the world. It’s like it would be nice to go to something else, but that’s that’s kind of where I go. And it it’s I don’t like it, you know. Yeah.

01:06:56:39 – 01:06:58:30
Mike Schlossberg
But you know. But my shiny. Never mind.

01:06:58:32 – 01:07:24:45
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah yeah. No. Look I will say though, I like the idea that on a weekly basis, The Good Government Show finds people that are doing good things around the country. Right. And I don’t get to pitch the show very much. I’m a behind the scenes, you know? You know, guy builds the thing. But we find good stories regardless of anything else.

01:07:24:45 – 01:07:50:53
Agent Palmer
And the the goal now aside from growing the show. So everybody you know listens is we want I personally I want more politicians to listen. I want people to be able to steal that idea from, you know, the mayor of Boise wants to plant a tree for every citizen in her constituency.

01:07:50:55 – 01:07:51:43
Mike Schlossberg
That’s really cool.

01:07:51:43 – 01:08:15:06
Agent Palmer
Wonderful. Why can’t somebody in, you know, other town not there? You know, not, you know, some do the same thing. We all we need more trees. Fine. Like, let’s plant one for each citizen. Like that’s, you know, and I that’s that’s all I want. I just want this to be able to share the ideas out there. And I don’t know who that needs to be.

01:08:15:08 – 01:08:29:27
Agent Palmer
Does it need to be mayors listening? Does it need to be you, you know, like who needs to listen so these things can happen? I don’t know, but I, I like the idea that hopefully we’re sharing ideas that can be stolen because a good idea should not be kept to yourself.

01:08:29:29 – 01:08:34:36
Mike Schlossberg
In an ideal world, as a citizen, citizen hears and passes it along to an elected official and it goes from there.

01:08:34:38 – 01:08:35:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah.

01:08:35:29 – 01:08:38:48
Mike Schlossberg
And we do get a lot of really good ideas from our constituents.

01:08:39:02 – 01:08:40:50
Agent Palmer
It’s not all just yelling.

01:08:40:55 – 01:08:42:40
Mike Schlossberg
No, no, no, no, no.

01:08:42:45 – 01:08:51:20
Mike Schlossberg
But some of the best bills I’ve had have come directly from constituents or been inspired by constituents in some way. It’s actually really remarkable how often that happens. I’m grateful for it.

01:08:51:23 – 01:08:53:01
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s that’s a great note.

01:08:53:04 – 01:08:54:06
Mike Schlossberg
Absolutely.

–End Transcription–

This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).