Episode 28 features a friend of Agent Palmer’s Chris Maier as the fourth of a four-part series on friendship by examining one up close.
What you are about to hear is simple and yet complex. This episode and the others like it all contain four main questions.
- Why are we friends?
- How did we meet?
- How did we become friends?
- Why are we still friends?
Through the answers to those questions, the discussions, and the stories that ensue, Chris and I will dive deep into our shared past, and the meaning of and perhaps the reason for our friendship.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Our Liner Notes
How Was Your Week, Honey?
Episode 2 of The Palmer Files – Blogging with Kristin Maier
Jurassic Park’s underlying themes anything but extinct 30 years later
One Year Later: Three Hallmarks of The Palmer Files
You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:24:32
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer com Jurassic Park. The novel’s underlying themes are anything but extinct. 30 years later, I look back at the three hallmarks of this podcast. After celebrating one year of this show and from wavering on whether this show should exist, Bill and I are now wondering if his show should come back. This is The Palmer Files, episode 28 with my friend Chris Maier.
00:00:24:36 – 00:01:04:59
Agent Palmer
This is the fourth of four episodes discussing friendship by examining one up close. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:05:03 – 00:01:30:16
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic. Also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 28th episode is the fourth of four episodes about friendship continuing with one friend. I’ve never physically met kids. Lived through computers now. They make all their friends over the internet so they don’t understand how non-verbal communication works. They don’t understand body language or casual sarcasm.
00:01:30:28 – 00:01:53:54
Agent Palmer
They love irony, but they never understand any joke they don’t make themselves. In 100 years, no one will be able to talk in public. Talking will be like blacksmithing. That quote comes from Chuck Klosterman novel The Visible Man. Given the nature of that quote. You can call Chris and I blacksmiths. We do love irony, and we do talk.
00:01:53:54 – 00:02:19:11
Agent Palmer
And we still understand how nonverbal communication and sarcasm work despite the distance. But that will become apparent as the show rolls on. What you are about to hear is simple and yet complex. The episode and others like it all contain four main questions. Why are we friends? How did we meet? How did we become friends? Why are we still friends?
00:02:19:16 – 00:02:32:19
Agent Palmer
Through the answers to those questions, the discussions and the stories that ensue. Chris and I will dive deep into our shared past and the meaning of, and perhaps reason for our friendship.
00:02:32:23 – 00:02:59:22
Agent Palmer
Before we get into it, remember that if you want to discuss the episode as you listen or after, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer. You can tweet the show at The Palmer Files or Chris at Chris Meyer book. That’s at Chris my ear bc. You can hear more of Chris on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast, or on how was your week on a podcast he host with his lovely wife, Kristen.
00:02:59:27 – 00:03:17:19
Agent Palmer
Email can be sent to the show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:03:17:24 – 00:03:21:58
Agent Palmer
All right. Chris. Why are we friends?
00:03:22:03 – 00:03:23:37
Chris Maier
I have no idea.
00:03:23:42 – 00:03:26:23
Agent Palmer
No.
00:03:26:27 – 00:03:48:15
Chris Maier
You know, I got to I got to make a wisecrack. That’s part of why we’re friends. Why are we friends? Similar interests. Good conversations. We have sports in common. Like, there’s just there’s so many different topics that you and I have in common. But aside from that, actually, I would say one of the biggest reasons we’re friends.
00:03:48:15 – 00:04:08:19
Chris Maier
And you get a lot of the credit for this. I’m I’m terrible at staying consistent in my friendships. As in the one to reach out, the one to make contact. And it’s something that you’re very good at. Now, I know you. You take a lot of shit from people because they’ll write like they’ll say, oh, Palmer won’t leave me alone.
00:04:08:19 – 00:04:30:35
Chris Maier
Or he calls me all the time. But I have to say, that is the one thing that I really appreciate about you. Because one of the reasons why we’re we’re still friends through. I mean, it’s actually been years now that it’s feels weird to say that because but it’s the truth. Is is is you don’t let time deter you from maintaining your friendships.
00:04:30:40 – 00:04:37:13
Chris Maier
And someone like me, I need somebody like that. My wife has a similar disposition.
00:04:37:18 – 00:05:05:02
Agent Palmer
So it’s. You are the fourth friend in this series, and it was based on the length of knowing people. Right. So the right spot I knew the longest, Chris. I knew that second longest. And Bill was only a couple of years before you. What’s interesting about all of those is what you just said of me being the one to reach out.
00:05:05:07 – 00:05:31:02
Agent Palmer
So Chris will call me the first Chris as well. Call him for confusion, but like, I’m not a went hermit on me. So, like, I had to reach out to him. I usually have to reach out to him. Bill is the same way. Like I reach out to Bill. That’s, you know, so when we start to, like, talk like I, it’s kind of where I’m at in all my other relationships.
00:05:31:02 – 00:05:51:49
Agent Palmer
Like I’m the person that reaches out and I don’t think of it in terms of, like, oh, like in order for it to be a real relationship, give and take. Like you have to call me half the time, like I know that that’s not that’s not everybody’s personality. That’s not how this works. So it’s like, that’s what I’m used to.
00:05:51:49 – 00:06:18:35
Agent Palmer
And like, you get the benefit of the first Chris. Hughes because he’s the person who I’m closest with that also has a family. So and I’ve been with him through that process. Like I knew him before he was a father, but I’ve known him after two. So I understand the. I’m having dinner with the family. I’ll call you back or I can’t, because I got to take somebody to soccer or whatever.
00:06:18:38 – 00:06:44:19
Agent Palmer
So all these things that I like, you’ve said to me, I, I, I’ve, I like I understand where you’re coming from and it’s like, okay, okay, I’ll get you, you know, I’ll, I’ll get you later. I’ll get you after the kids go to bed. Now, you know, the time difference does not make this very easy. Like I know that I talk to you on your way to work, and I’m, like, done with my, like, I’m getting ready for lunch, like.
00:06:44:19 – 00:06:45:33
Agent Palmer
Right.
00:06:45:38 – 00:07:09:18
Chris Maier
Well, I have memories of of, like, my mom, for example, she’d want to call her sister and we lived in the middle of the country, which is, you know, similar time zone to to what? Where you are in the East Coast trying to talk to her sister back on the West Coast. And this was during the time of, you know, if you called after 6 p.m., then the long distance charges were, you know.
00:07:09:22 – 00:07:27:04
Agent Palmer
Or if you called after 6 p.m. like, oh, what’s that? What’s that like? Cause I mean, like like, yeah, you are older than me, but you’re not so older than me. Like, I remember, like, if the phone rang before like 10 a.m. or after eight, that’s a rarity.
00:07:27:09 – 00:07:50:53
Chris Maier
Exactly. And I remember my mom playing this, like, calculation game of, okay, well, it’s 730 here, which is this time there, but it should cost this much. And if I’m off the phone by a, you know, there’s a lot of that to it. And then, you know, talking about having kids, I, I don’t have as many friends that don’t have kids, probably for just what you’re talking about.
00:07:51:07 – 00:08:13:13
Chris Maier
Anyone with children really has that understanding of nothing is set in stone. Not you know, you may say, hey, let’s get together at 8:00, but that means hopefully we can get together at 8:00, you know, and you are very understanding of that and you have no issues if you if you give me a call or text and I just don’t answer because you I’ll get I’ll get here eventually.
00:08:13:13 – 00:08:20:32
Chris Maier
And you know there I’ve had single friends in the past who will balk at that and say, well, I called you.
00:08:20:37 – 00:08:23:01
Agent Palmer
00:08:23:06 – 00:08:25:16
Chris Maier
You didn’t answer? Nope.
00:08:25:21 – 00:08:57:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, no, I get it. And I, you know, I was trained, quote unquote trained well enough by working behind the scenes with the seven Dagg crew because Grant and Jason, the angry Ginger, both have kids. So despite the fact that it was, we’re going to record at nine like it does like and for a while, especially when those two were still hosting, no matter whose house it was, you had to wait till everybody was settled first.
00:08:57:18 – 00:09:20:53
Agent Palmer
So while Grant may have showed up at Ginger’s house at 8 or 830, we may not be recording at nine. Maybe there’s a thing. Maybe somebody wants a drink. Like these things all need to be taken care of. And because of Chris Hughes and us starting a business together and working on projects together and having full time jobs and him having a family.
00:09:20:53 – 00:09:48:22
Agent Palmer
So we were waiting until the kids went down, kid. And then kids went down, right? And now it’s like, all right, well, I you call them like, I’ll call you at eight. And if the kids are down, we’ll we’ll do good. We’ll go at 830. We’ll go at nine. Like, you learn to roll with those punches. And maybe it’s because I’ve had friends that had kids like, I don’t I don’t need my own kids to understand how that works.
00:09:48:27 – 00:09:58:21
Agent Palmer
So for us, like I, I am I mean, the way you talk about it, it must have been refreshing for somebody to, like, completely get it.
00:09:58:26 – 00:10:28:06
Chris Maier
Okay, well, here’s a perfect example. You’re very well aware that I moved, you know, my current location. I moved here ten years ago. The majority of my friends and myself included, you know, just before I left, my daughter, my my oldest was born six months before I left. So my, let’s say my group of 4 or 5, you know, guy friends, although they may have had girlfriends, none of them were in wholly committed relationships and or even contemplating children.
00:10:28:15 – 00:10:54:36
Chris Maier
Sure. So when I got here, I maintain those relationships to a degree. But honestly, the only guy that I still talk to is the one that is now married and has two kids, and I never got a message from him that said, oh, I get it now. But you know, there there was just there certain, topics and subjects we could discuss and the type like he you just knew that he understood.
00:10:54:41 – 00:11:12:46
Chris Maier
Whereas I, I can think of times in the first year or two of being here picking up the phone and going, well, it’s 1:00 in the morning here, which means it’s 3:00 in the morning there. Whatever you’re up to, I want no part of this. It’s it’s just not who I am anymore.
00:11:12:51 – 00:11:19:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So, I mean, I guess before we get too far ahead, how did we meet?
00:11:19:59 – 00:11:29:42
Chris Maier
While I know when I first talked to you. Okay, that was on an episode. Oh, what the hell is that show called Inglorious Gentleman? The Inglorious Gentleman?
00:11:29:42 – 00:11:30:40
Agent Palmer
That’s correct.
00:11:30:44 – 00:11:43:32
Chris Maier
You were just a voice on the other end of the line. It was my second podcast ever that I been, I had I had just been on Diamond Minds, you know, the of my uncle and cousin.
00:11:43:39 – 00:11:44:16
Agent Palmer
Yep.
00:11:44:21 – 00:12:04:08
Chris Maier
The night before. And I got a text at dinner time. Speaking of of ill timed communication, from my Uncle Paul, who was who was a part of that show saying, hey, you know, we’ve had some guys drop out if you’d like to be on tonight. We’re discussing politics. And I thought, yay, family and politics. What could go wrong?
00:12:04:09 – 00:12:14:43
Agent Palmer
If I remember correctly, that episode was Paul. You know, myself and, I,
00:12:14:48 – 00:12:17:23
Chris Maier
I definitely dug. Yeah.
00:12:17:28 – 00:12:44:12
Agent Palmer
And dug. That was that was that was the crew. And by the way, that episode no longer exists. I mean, I have a copy, but that that episode no longer exists, and I can say how wrong I was because that was that was before a certain election. And we were not only were we talking politics, we were kind of making estimations as to how things would go.
00:12:44:17 – 00:13:04:54
Chris Maier
I think we were cracking like Trump jokes. Yeah, because I think he had just thrown his hat in the ring around that time. Yeah. To be I don’t recall much of that conversation. I think it was actually Clint instead of Hino. That was the fourth on that on that episode. I could be wrong.
00:13:05:07 – 00:13:31:01
Agent Palmer
Well, I know you were on another subsequent one where it was a very similar lineup. I don’t remember. So I do remember that that was the first time we ever spoke. And I’m sure there were some Twitter things because that’s at the time, like I was a huge, like, listening tweet guy. So I would have done that when you were on Diamond Minds, right?
00:13:31:06 – 00:13:55:11
Agent Palmer
And then at a certain point, I think you were on the Diamond Dave show. But it’s not until after you start our liner notes that we really start talking. Was there anything in between there that you remember between, like, those first few episodes and like, of, like, other people’s shows and then starting your own and us kind of having a.
00:13:55:15 – 00:14:20:42
Chris Maier
Know you’ve got it. You’ve got to bang on it was. It was diamond. It was not diamond mine. Sorry. It was, glorious gentlemen. And then you were the third or fourth. I actually went to visit Dave in Calgary, and I was to get this very mixer I’m using tonight. My wife and kids and I went to visit her sister and Dave, and I was spending the afternoon with them at his apartment, and he’s like, hey, wanna record an episode?
00:14:20:42 – 00:14:27:11
Chris Maier
Let’s do it. And, I believe that was the discussion of, whether or not Dave should go back to school.
00:14:27:16 – 00:14:27:45
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:14:27:45 – 00:14:28:46
Chris Maier
All right.
00:14:28:46 – 00:14:31:28
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah.
00:14:31:33 – 00:14:41:47
Chris Maier
Anyways, but exactly that, once I had decided to start our liner notes, I believe you were, like, our second guest ever.
00:14:41:52 – 00:15:00:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I remember getting, I think Paul had sent me one of the early if. If I didn’t hear episode one as episode zero, then I heard episode one the moment it dropped because Paul was like, how do we do.
00:15:00:12 – 00:15:31:26
Chris Maier
Right? We. And then from there, I think it was all Twitter communications. And we, we, we discovered on that show that we had some musical common ground. And so I think that became a point of conversation on top of now sort of becoming the part of the same podcast circle. So I think we were commenting on each other’s tweets here and there, and then we just built a relationship, but I where I think we really hit our stride and started, you know, extracurricular communication, if you want to call it.
00:15:31:26 – 00:15:53:05
Chris Maier
That was when we did the first concert episode of our liner notes, which was several months later, in which Paul was essentially the third wheel. Well, you and I just told Aerosmith stories and then took it then then the cover, and then you got my number and, you know, so on and so forth.
00:15:53:06 – 00:16:12:15
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s funny because at that point I still don’t have international calling. So like, I, I know there were a couple times at one of my previous jobs where I would try and hit you up around lunchtime because I did have international calling at the office. Right. And we talked a few.
00:16:12:15 – 00:16:29:40
Chris Maier
So should we, I guess you we should tell people I live in Canada. Yeah. You know, now, not only is this a long distance relationship, but this is an international relationship that we have, like, I, I, you know, now that Dave is down there, I think I’m one of, you know, one of your only international friends, aside from Paula, maybe.
00:16:29:52 – 00:16:31:56
Chris Maier
But, you know, I’ve this group of four.
00:16:31:56 – 00:16:32:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:16:32:20 – 00:16:33:39
Chris Maier
No, don’t live in the same country.
00:16:33:44 – 00:16:52:20
Agent Palmer
You’re the only intern. I mean, not only are we, you know, we’re on opposite coasts for, like. I mean, you’re not on the coast, but you might as well be like, you’re, you know, it’s a three hour time difference. So you are at least in the Pacific time zone, which that’s the West Coast. I, I know you’re not there, but that’s that’s what.
00:16:52:26 – 00:16:58:03
Chris Maier
I think the Atlantic is as close to you as the Pacific is to me. So, you know, it’s pretty darn close.
00:16:58:08 – 00:17:22:08
Agent Palmer
You know, there’s that. And then, you know, when I you were you and Dave and Paula were the three reasons I was like, I have to get international calling. Now, at a certain point, I realized that I could text internationally, and that kind of upped the ante, because now it was a little more instant than being on Twitter.
00:17:22:08 – 00:17:45:27
Agent Palmer
Like, I’m on Twitter all the time. I’m I’m not on Twitter, like, all the time. And and when we started texting, is kind of where it went to that like next level. So and then, you know, at a certain point I do get international calling and we’re talking, but I guess the it leads straight into like, how did we become friends?
00:17:45:27 – 00:18:06:36
Agent Palmer
Because it’s not like, yeah, we ramped up the talking. But you know, you talk to acquaintances too, like there’s no guarantee that we became friends. Like or there’s no guarantee at that point. Right. Like everything we’ve said is accurate to the history. But like it that can happen in that way with anyone.
00:18:06:40 – 00:18:26:33
Chris Maier
I think it really took off was so I remember the international calling phone, but there was a period there were you had two numbers and you’re like, if it’s at this time you have to call this number and if it’s this time you have to call back. And I remember getting confused which number and I’d call the wrong one sometimes.
00:18:26:38 – 00:18:39:15
Chris Maier
But nonetheless, when we did talk, there was a point there. I want to say it’s around. I know I’m relating everything back to the Our Liner Notes podcast, but it’s really my best time marker for a lot of this stuff.
00:18:39:15 – 00:18:40:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:18:40:13 – 00:19:00:59
Chris Maier
But it’s somewhere around episode 50 where, Paul and I are having trouble connecting because he had to start traveling for work a whole lot more. And then you add in the time difference in that. And I was starting to struggle with what to do with the show. You know, at that point, I was pretty much I think we should wrap it up because I don’t see it moving forward.
00:19:01:10 – 00:19:19:12
Chris Maier
And I wasn’t looking for a new host or anything like that. But as I was starting to contemplate maybe doing solo episodes or reworking formats, you became my sounding board. So while we would chat about podcasting and then, you know, I it’s, thinking about this idea and you’d be like, oh, that’s great. Why don’t you try this?
00:19:19:12 – 00:19:25:32
Chris Maier
And and so it was this great back and forth about the show. But at some point that conversation would end.
00:19:25:37 – 00:19:26:12
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:19:26:17 – 00:19:40:10
Chris Maier
And then it would be like, so how does your mom do it? You know, or, you know, this shitty thing happened to be at work, and all of a sudden the conversation just shifted to how any of you guys who were friends would chat to one another.
00:19:40:14 – 00:20:09:59
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It was, it’s one of those things where you can’t put your finger on it like it was this date on this call. It just kind of like happened, right? And for and and there’s that point. And, you know, I mean, it’s not like we can check the tape, but like there’s that point where we go from, I have this idea for our liner notes discussion.
00:20:10:04 – 00:20:36:26
Agent Palmer
Hey, what about the Jays game to. Yes. What about the to like the the sports the you know how’s Kristen how are the kids like that stuff went from being the okay we’re done with these the podcast conversation. Let’s move on to other things. And all of a sudden it became, well, how are the kids first or hey, do you see that game last night?
00:20:36:26 – 00:20:58:52
Agent Palmer
Like that stuff becomes paramount in the conversations we’re having. And then we get to the podcast off. That’s right. And I think that’s the that’s when you notice, like in hindsight, that’s when you go like, all right. Well that was clearly when the relationship shifted from just like, oh, we’re podcasters together.
00:20:58:57 – 00:21:11:32
Chris Maier
Yeah. And you know and some of the things we did end up talking about pretty personal stuff. I mean you had a wonderful show where you had Neil on a while back and you guys got into, you know, the.
00:21:11:35 – 00:21:12:46
Agent Palmer
The, our anxiety.
00:21:12:46 – 00:21:33:24
Chris Maier
The mental health. Yeah, anxieties and mental health and all the rest. And I clearly remember sitting in the garage for like two hours, you know, years ago having that same discussion with you. You just saying, by the way, here’s a side of me I, you know, not like I think you should know, but you just well, I’m letting you I’m letting you in a little bit.
00:21:33:24 – 00:21:42:20
Chris Maier
And here’s something I’m dealing with and I, you know, and from that point on, I remember talking about that a lot and just just listening to you basically working through it yourself.
00:21:42:31 – 00:22:07:38
Agent Palmer
Well, it was also a point of, you know, you we, we had talked about getting together at some point and I was like, I, I won’t be getting on a plane now if we, if we were, if we hadn’t become as close as we had, I think that’s where that conversation ends. Well, I just I’m, I don’t get on a plane or I’m not comfortable getting on a plane.
00:22:07:43 – 00:22:36:26
Agent Palmer
I don’t have to give you the backstory. But yeah, we we went through that at a certain point and then, you know, you talk about like the other stuff like before you had a show with your wife, like, and I don’t know how this happens because it’s not just Twitter. Like, at a certain point I’m texting with Kristen, like, and I’m, you know, before, how was your week?
00:22:36:26 – 00:22:59:34
Agent Palmer
And, like, having conversations and I mean, more recently, and it’s actually it’s 5050 half of it’s on me, half of it’s on one of your daughters and I’m not going to name who. But like we were, we were pen pals. I was pen pals with your daughters. And now I have to write one of them, and one of them has to write me is where we’re at.
00:22:59:34 – 00:23:15:57
Agent Palmer
But, like, it’s like, at a certain point, it. I just. I feel like I became part of the family, like, without actually, you know, doing much just kind of being me. I well,
00:23:16:02 – 00:23:51:20
Chris Maier
I think, like, if you were my next door neighbor or you lived on the street or I mean, even hell, if you’re if you were my golfing buddy, you have if that person is a big enough part of one person’s life, then you know, when you get home or you’re talking to your partner and in this case, Kristen, you know, oh, I was talking to Jason today that that attracted, I mean, it’s just natural that if you are a part of my daily conversation, then it seeps into my conversations with my wife, and then she gets to know you, you know, first through me and then personally herself.
00:23:51:29 – 00:24:05:16
Chris Maier
And then, I mean, I our biggest focus is our children. So again, if you’re becoming a part of our lives, that’s just sort of a natural progression of how it goes. The only thing that makes it strange is that we’ve never physically seen you.
00:24:05:23 – 00:24:06:12
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:24:06:17 – 00:24:07:06
Chris Maier
In the flesh.
00:24:07:06 – 00:24:31:47
Agent Palmer
In the flesh. Now, I, I want to go back to something because originally because I wasn’t Jason. Like, I mean, I, I talked to Bill about this, because Bill was, and you were both kind of around when I changed the Twitter name, not the handle, but the name to be me, which was you were one of the people I talked to about that.
00:24:31:47 – 00:24:54:02
Agent Palmer
And it was also like, all right, well, I mean, you you kind of knew about the pod. This podcast ahead of time. You were on the Inner circle for that too. But it was also like, I’m not Jason for like, you know what I mean? Like, and it’s it’s odd and at the same time, it’s just kind of fits the narrative of everything I’ve been through.
00:24:54:07 – 00:25:28:21
Agent Palmer
Is that people don’t know me. I mean, they know me genuinely, because I’m never like, I don’t I’m not creative enough to be to different people. I can’t go right, go by a different name, but I’m still me. But like, that’s got to be, Paul had the hardest time with it as an example, right? Like go back and listen to some of those, our liner notes when I send in an email, even if I sign it off as Palmer, he’s like, got an email from Jason.
00:25:28:26 – 00:25:35:04
Agent Palmer
Like there were times even listening, I’m like, who’s he? He’s still talking about me, right? Right.
00:25:35:09 – 00:25:54:02
Chris Maier
Well, I wonder if that’s an age thing, though. You know, for someone like Paul, the, you know, the way that I know him, you use someone’s proper name, you wouldn’t use a nickname. So I think Paul would Paul would have an ocean side issue, but it would be difficult for someone like him or my father to call you by, not to your given name.
00:25:54:02 – 00:26:13:32
Chris Maier
Yes. Palmer is your nickname. Now, for the rest of us. I mean, Palmer is a is a term of endearment at this point, like to, you know, and there’s a difference because I think someone that wouldn’t know you would refer to you as Agent Palmer. Sure. But for the rest of us, you know, Palmer is just your your your friendly old nickname.
00:26:13:41 – 00:26:14:23
Chris Maier
Yeah.
00:26:14:28 – 00:26:25:09
Agent Palmer
Is there. So my partner Steph still, like, I, I’m not called the same thing by her twice in a row.
00:26:25:14 – 00:26:27:29
Chris Maier
No. And probably a lot of those words you can’t use on this program.
00:26:27:30 – 00:26:37:44
Agent Palmer
No no no I mean it’s but but sometimes it’s Jason and sometimes it’s Palmer. And this isn’t just based around company where with it’s like, you know, when it’s just the two of us.
00:26:37:49 – 00:26:38:59
Chris Maier
She slides back and forth.
00:26:39:01 – 00:26:53:59
Agent Palmer
Well, and because so do I. But she knew again she was for she first knew me as Palmer. It’s very odd, but I guess it’s a testament to my actual personality that like, it doesn’t matter what the label is.
00:26:54:03 – 00:27:00:40
Chris Maier
That’s what you yourself, Palmer. They’re the same person. So. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:00:44 – 00:27:21:15
Agent Palmer
So we you know, Paul, around that 50 episode, Paul kind of starts to fade away a little bit. And I volunteered to do like an episode with you not not step in and be a co-host necessarily.
00:27:21:20 – 00:27:23:22
Chris Maier
No. But you didn’t shy away from it either.
00:27:23:22 – 00:27:40:58
Agent Palmer
No. Well, we were having fun, you know. I mean, sure, that’s the other thing. Our relationship on Mike for that show is very much just a focused version of our relationship. Off mike, I guess.
00:27:41:03 – 00:27:56:12
Chris Maier
Yeah, I agree, if you were to listen in on one of our conversations, it it might not be as, up as a as it is on Mike, but yeah, that’s true, you know, but the same ribbing and the, you know, the same back and forth and the same subject matter certainly happens.
00:27:56:17 – 00:28:26:08
Agent Palmer
Now you are older than me, but like. I find it where it’s like, you know I met Zapata in high school. You meet people in high school I met Chris in college. You meet people in college right. Bill was one of those guys that like from the internet same as you like I and I, I choose I, I kind of hold, you know, Chris Hughes and Jason Zapata are in a league of their own.
00:28:26:08 – 00:28:45:33
Agent Palmer
Like it’s decades now that I’ve known them. But you and Bill are equal because like I chose you. Do, you know, like like there’s a different level. Do you know what I mean? Like, there’s a different level because it’s like, I, you know, I’m the guy who, after college thought I knew I had all the close friends I was ever going to need.
00:28:45:38 – 00:29:10:16
Agent Palmer
I didn’t think I was going to need any more. You know, when you talk to not Kristen or even the first time to Kristen, you’re like, I’m talking to this guy. Like, you know, I’m making a new friend, and, you know, and I mean, not even giving away just but like, at over 30, you know, because I was past 30 at that point and it’s just like I’m making a new friend post 30.
00:29:10:16 – 00:29:27:31
Agent Palmer
Like, that’s I like in my like I just couldn’t like that part of it. Looking back now is like the incomprehensible part. Like, not that we met on the internet, just like I made a friend after 30. Like, no, like people don’t do that.
00:29:27:36 – 00:29:50:29
Chris Maier
Well, I think so. You’re talking about your other friends, Kristen Zapata, who what I’ll call proximity friends, as in, you were in high school and you made a friend because that’s what you do. There are there is a group of people. You are surrounded by a group of people. And whether you befriend many of them or just one of them, you will because they are in your orbit.
00:29:50:29 – 00:30:00:22
Chris Maier
Yep. Become friends, however it is you line up. And same with with Zapata being a college friend. He in your college orbit and and you met and so yeah.
00:30:00:26 – 00:30:02:00
Agent Palmer
Reverse it but yeah I oh.
00:30:02:00 – 00:30:38:07
Chris Maier
Okay. Sorry. Yeah. But nonetheless this is not that much different. And I think the, the age difference is, is a testament to that. We’re friends by proximity in that we were traveling in the same circle did this digitally at the same time with, you know, a conflation of, of different interests that, that met up. And so we began, I would almost say that those relationships are more natural because they’re purely predicated on common interest and conversation.
00:30:38:09 – 00:31:02:15
Chris Maier
It’s not just, hey, you seem okay, and I need a friend while I’m in this strange place and I’m alone. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it’s a it’s it’s human nature to to need a friend to have, companion, somebody to share the experience with, to help you through the experience where this this is a a relationship built purely on just a natural back and forth that grows over time.
00:31:02:20 – 00:31:35:34
Agent Palmer
I have stated I was comfortable with the friends I had before, right? Yeah. Like, were you like. I mean, you talk about leaving where you were and you know, you’re going to a new place and, you know, I’m, you know, discounting, you know, meeting me and the whole internet bubble that you have now. Yeah. You know, where I mean, obviously family first and you’ve got two daughters and you’ve got a wife, but like, what were you like, was there a was there ever a part of you where you were like, I’m looking for a friend?
00:31:35:34 – 00:31:40:51
Agent Palmer
Or was it like, no, I, I, you know, I, I have enough.
00:31:40:56 – 00:31:57:10
Chris Maier
I don’t think I ever said I had enough because I didn’t have any here. I have my wife, who’s my best friend. But as far as like, you know, casual friends, friends to do things with, I don’t I still don’t really have them here. I’ve met a few people here and there, but the interests just don’t line up.
00:31:57:10 – 00:32:19:34
Chris Maier
And for whatever reason, I just, I have made those connections. So at no point was I ever saying I don’t need a friend. But at the same time, I wasn’t sitting sitting around going, man, I wish I had a friend. So I but I think because I didn’t have that kind of, you know, outside my family circle connection with somebody, it made me very open to these kind of relationships.
00:32:19:34 – 00:32:31:25
Chris Maier
And sure, when I first started podcasting and, you know, tweeting back and forth with some people, yeah, I probably trivialized it to some degree. Oh, this this is neat. This person seems nice.
00:32:31:29 – 00:32:32:33
Agent Palmer
You know what I mean?
00:32:32:38 – 00:32:57:02
Chris Maier
And, you know, even talking with my wife, I can think in a few times with Kristen going, is this weird? Is it strange that, you know, I’m I’m I’m not just talking like, commenting on someone’s post. I’m private messaging someone. And I’ve been holding a conversation with them for the last two hours. Yeah. You know, but but once I got over that, I mean, now here we are five, six years later, whatever it is.
00:32:57:07 – 00:33:22:17
Chris Maier
And it’s quite normal. And I it’s actually the perfect kind of relationship for me just because of the family situation and everything that we talked about earlier. So my long winded way of, of, of answering your question, no, I wasn’t done with friends. No, I wasn’t particularly looking. But I think now that I look back, I probably was, you know, wanting those connections and I will still continue to make them.
00:33:22:17 – 00:33:25:10
Chris Maier
I’m happy to have more friends now at this point.
00:33:25:12 – 00:33:50:02
Agent Palmer
All right. I mean, that’s fair. I mean, because I’m not I’m not your only close like friend from the internet either, but by any stretch and I’m not you know, I, I think it’s one of those things like looking back like when you, when you look at friendship as I don’t even want to say an older person, but just like with more experience, like I have any kids movie, right?
00:33:50:02 – 00:34:19:45
Agent Palmer
Like you can’t have two best friends that, you know what I mean? Like, you just you can’t and like, I’m, I’m, I’m, you know, you’re the force only by measure of like, you’re the person I’ve met most recently. You’re the first. You’re the fourth of four best friends I have, like of different, varying degrees. But like, you’re all equal, like I, you know, if circumstance, obviously, location and time zone.
00:34:19:55 – 00:34:46:04
Agent Palmer
But if you were all my neighbors, like, it’s flip a coin who I’m calling, except, like, I’ll probably, you know, depending on which band I want to talk about is which person I go to, right. Or like, oh, I have a technical question, so I’ll go to whatever, like, but it’s just that’s the fascinating thing to me because nobody, nobody talks about friendship anymore.
00:34:46:09 – 00:35:12:23
Chris Maier
Maybe, I also think that you lose the idea of best friend post your school years. There’s, you know, because your best friend, in a lot of ways is the person who knows you best, the person you can depend on and and you know, the one that that helps you and sees you through things and vice versa. And like for me, once I got married and it wasn’t just because I got married, but I found my best friend.
00:35:12:28 – 00:35:45:29
Chris Maier
And so because I have that, you know, that soul person, I got that covered. Right? So I’m good. Yeah. So now everyone everyone else is just my friends. And I don’t mean to say just no, but, but but like you were saying, I have a lot of people that are now out again outside the immediate family that that are are all equal, as you said, that I enjoy for different reasons and different things, and they facilitate different kinds of conversations and they spark different parts of my brain in my imagination.
00:35:45:38 – 00:35:47:05
Chris Maier
And I like it all.
00:35:47:10 – 00:36:11:41
Agent Palmer
You you get the benefit of being last as well because like, I get to start putting things together, right? Like there’s a commonality of like, you know, Zapata and I worked on a book together. At minimum, we did that. We’ve also worked on a novel. And there’s other things in the works, right? Chris and I founded companies. Bill and I worked on events and podcasts together, and you and I have worked on podcasts together.
00:36:11:46 – 00:36:12:01
Agent Palmer
So.
00:36:12:01 – 00:36:23:37
Chris Maier
Maybe that’s the other great thing is that, you know, your connection is with creative types, right? And the internet’s been great for you to, to find other people like you in that way.
00:36:23:42 – 00:36:47:57
Agent Palmer
It was, yes and no. Like, I’ve found creative types I can’t work with as well. So you and it’s not you know, it’s not always just personality. I mean, it is, but it it’s not like there are intangibles that are just like, it’s just it’s just it’s just not working. So that’s kind of what makes you and I like it.
00:36:47:57 – 00:37:11:12
Agent Palmer
Makes it I don’t know, like I’ve, I’ve worked on shows before where I’ve bowed out after a certain period of time because I just couldn’t do it anymore. And with you and I, it’s more circumstance. Right? It’s it’s the time zone. It’s, you know, you know, I, I and I lament this all the time, but it’s not like it got any better or worse.
00:37:11:12 – 00:37:38:07
Agent Palmer
Like, we always recorded the night. Like we we like. I was always staying up late to do this. And it’s. I enjoy doing it. That’s why I like. Okay. You know, there are things, you know, Like what? What else would I be doing? Like what? What could be better than this right now? Like, I mean, you know, I get to hang out with you and have a conversation, and if it’s not this show, then it’s.
00:37:38:07 – 00:38:16:27
Agent Palmer
We’re talking music on any other given night, right? So it’s it’s enjoyable. And, you know, for a while we had a regular schedule. But even when we’re not regularly recording, we are still regularly talking. And the one of these unique things for our relationship. Yep. Because of the distance is there are times when I will wake up to a text from you that you sent before you went to bed that I’m like groggy, looking at my phone, going, what is he even talking about?
00:38:16:32 – 00:38:31:12
Chris Maier
That’s okay. I get the same thing because when you text at your 7:00 am, which is four in the morning for me, and I’m getting up for work at six or whatever it is, and I’m thinking, he sent this two hours. What the fuck?
00:38:31:17 – 00:38:32:19
Chris Maier
So I know what you mean.
00:38:32:23 – 00:38:46:04
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it’s. But I enjoy it. It’s been, one of those, you know, Twitter, Twitter. Twitter’s been good to me. Like, sure.
00:38:46:09 – 00:38:49:20
Chris Maier
I, you know. Yeah, I call it a Twitter happy accident.
00:38:49:25 – 00:39:08:51
Agent Palmer
I mean, we you can call it a lot of things because coincidence works too, because, you know, it’s, you know, if they like, if all things are equal. And Dave’s not in that circle, you and I miss out like we we’re not connect it, Dave. And then from Dave to Paul and from Dave and Paul to you and me.
00:39:08:55 – 00:39:40:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Like there are lines, you know, we talk about proximity. It’s not that different, you know, like the, the proximity of people who follow a show is not that dissimilar to, like, being in high school, right. Like, I mean, aside from the mandatory elements, but, like, you know, you’re there in this crew and it’s not full of, like, all completely like minded individuals, like they are individuals.
00:39:40:27 – 00:40:00:39
Agent Palmer
It’s not like there’s 100 people listening to a podcast and they’re all the same person. Like, that doesn’t happen. And then there’s these side things that kind of happen. You know, it’s not always just, hey, we’re spinning off another podcast. Sometimes people just talk. Sure. Well, but.
00:40:00:39 – 00:40:23:30
Chris Maier
You got to give yourself some credit in all of this because again, like you mentioned earlier, you were someone who loved to tweet and listen. So you engaged, right? So right there, that first step put you out there for people to even know who you were because you were not a podcaster, you were a podcast listener. That is how I knew you.
00:40:23:35 – 00:40:35:05
Chris Maier
Who happened to, you know, we’re not going to get into the proxy cast or fake or that that is dead. But you were when I knew of you, a listener.
00:40:35:05 – 00:40:35:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:40:35:39 – 00:41:01:15
Chris Maier
And then you became a collaborator and then a frequent guest there, etc.. And and it’s that, I don’t know, willingness to put yourself out there, willingness to engage. How you did make some of this happen just by your own actions. So there’s some credit there to be had on your part. It’s not like, you know, well, a lot of it happened organically.
00:41:01:15 – 00:41:21:58
Chris Maier
Once the conversation started, you did initiate a lot of these friendships, I would say, without you. I mean, what sounds silly to say, without you, the friendships don’t exist. But, I mean, you could exist. But if you weren’t, you those you wouldn’t have the newer friendships that you have now. I mean, for we we we’ve barely talked about it.
00:41:21:58 – 00:41:38:55
Chris Maier
You’re having all your friends on, you know, there’s four episodes, but your best friend that lives with you if you want to go best friend Steph, she is also a result of of this online friendship engagement that we’re talking about.
00:41:38:55 – 00:42:14:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It’s I mean yes, yes, I and I, I don’t I’m not discounting that. Suffice to say that, you know, I, I’m trying to put the spotlight on these four relationships, but you know, I, I’ve actually written about this on my blog a few times in that, you know, blogging for me has been an exercise in writing and also, a yelling like, like a screaming into the void mentality.
00:42:14:32 – 00:42:40:00
Agent Palmer
And I, I see Twitter as very much the same thing. And I got comfortable. Well, like, I think I take it for granted that people were starting to like, yell back, right? Like I was doing all this live tweeting. But like at the very beginning, I’m not just live tweeting like independent shows. I’m like tweeting big shows too.
00:42:40:11 – 00:43:04:18
Agent Palmer
Like I don’t live tweet Marin anymore. I don’t live tweet. What was Nerdist did now I do tend to like I don’t live tweet those big shows anymore because I got tired of yelling into the void and because on the an independent level, people like Grant and Jay and Bill, and you and Dave, like, started tweeting back, right?
00:43:04:18 – 00:43:42:49
Agent Palmer
Like, hey, I really like, you know, whatever. And so I was comfortable with the silence, right? Like I was putting something out there, but I was comfortable with. All right. That’s done. Nobody, you know, it’s out there, but nobody’s going to, you know. So I, I don’t know how much credit I should get for that because I was, I was doing it, but I wasn’t, you know, at a certain point you just go, all right, well, I’m getting one response for every thousand tweets or whatever it is, you know, like, it’s not it’s not like, oh, I’m a celebrity.
00:43:42:49 – 00:44:07:44
Agent Palmer
And even if you look at their engagement, right, like how many people are following them versus how many people actually respond, it’s like, all right, well, I, I guess I’m doing this for me, like one. No, no, I there’s no expectation. So. You know, I and I, and I also can’t go back and be like, well why was I doing it then.
00:44:07:49 – 00:44:29:40
Agent Palmer
Like I don’t know, like there’s a it’s one of the great mysteries like, I, I, I have a wonderful partner and I have all these wonderful friends and it’s because I did this, but I, I, I don’t know why I started it, you know, like, that’s I one day I just decided that was what I was going to do.
00:44:29:45 – 00:44:41:41
Chris Maier
Right. And who knows. But one could maybe surmise that you were looking for that connection where you say, I’m good with the with the number of friends you had. Maybe you weren’t.
00:44:41:46 – 00:44:43:56
Agent Palmer
You and you didn’t know.
00:44:43:57 – 00:45:05:12
Chris Maier
I mean, you were clearly looking for some kind of engagement. I mean, you’re listening to Marin as an example, who’s a thought provoking guy, and he said something and you’re like, I think this now, I and let me put it to you this way. I’m someone that that was new to Twitter, like getting into podcasting got me on Twitter.
00:45:05:16 – 00:45:41:37
Chris Maier
Okay. Otherwise Twitter was just. I, I didn’t even like Facebook at the time. I didn’t need any of it. Right? I didn’t even understand Twitter. But I can think of some of the early podcast shows, you know, that got me aware of what that even meant, and the number of thoughts and reasons why I listen to that show is they would say something would spark a memory of like, oh, I’m reminds me of this thing, and you almost get excited while you’re listening because the listening to the conversation of two strangers, you know, it just it sparks thoughts and memories and, and and you want to get that out there.
00:45:41:52 – 00:45:59:38
Chris Maier
So you’re really looking for someone to share that with. You can’t share it with the hosts even though you being on Twitter, you’re like, well, I’m going to throw this at you because you made me think of X. And of course, shows of that size, they’re not going to engage with everybody that’s, you know, throwing out every random thought at them.
00:45:59:52 – 00:46:25:59
Chris Maier
So then you come along to your independent podcast and you’re having the same kinds of thoughts, and all of a sudden the host or the producer or a fan says, yeah or no, you’re full of shit. I think this, you know, it all of a sudden starts, you’ve stoked the fire, right? That you know that the embers are going and the next thing you know, maybe a third jumps in and then you’re talking to the host, and now you and the host are back.
00:46:26:04 – 00:46:36:03
Chris Maier
And that’s what you did. So maybe you were you found friends that you didn’t know you were looking for, but maybe you were I.
00:46:36:05 – 00:46:51:08
Agent Palmer
All right, I’ll I’ll, I’ll I’ll, I’ll take it under advisement. I’m not I’m not going to buy it whole hog. But I will take it under advisement. So you were within an hour and a half of me.
00:46:51:13 – 00:46:52:54
Chris Maier
Okay, we’re talking about this. Let’s.
00:46:52:59 – 00:47:17:14
Agent Palmer
We’ll talk about the the missed connection. Right? Like, I, I, I had a job that I knew I wasn’t going to have for very long, but I was hopeful and, I, I, I, I miss, I, you know, in hindsight, I can say I misread it. There was never a reason to stay and not go. But I didn’t.
00:47:17:19 – 00:47:56:09
Agent Palmer
And I know that, similar to, say, missing out on, the Portland meetup, or, say, the first pod tober fest where I was a remote help. And the flack I took before I agreed to go to the second pod tober fest like, there are some things that I have just not done. And look, I, I it in in all honesty, there was definitely a lot of anxiety around that.
00:47:56:09 – 00:48:21:11
Agent Palmer
And it wasn’t you like. And it’s, I mean, I, I mean for the listening audience, the anxiety was travel. It was definitely not meeting you. I mean, if anything, the experiences I had prior where I’m meeting these people that I just talked to on Twitter and I get into a room with them and it’s just like I’ve always known you, and it’s not awkward.
00:48:21:11 – 00:48:37:28
Agent Palmer
Like, that’s not the reason for me. It’s always been travel or being in a new place or whatever. So I didn’t, I, I know it was a disappointment.
00:48:37:33 – 00:48:39:04
Chris Maier
Okay. The elevator.
00:48:39:15 – 00:48:40:49
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:48:40:54 – 00:49:05:05
Chris Maier
Because you’re right, Kristen and I, I took Kristen to Manhattan for, her 40th birthday. Now, this isn’t something. Well, to her, it was a surprise. I sprung it on her. Yes, but you knew that I had been planning this trip. I think I told you a good 8 to 9 months in advance. I’d been planning it over a year in advance.
00:49:05:05 – 00:49:26:02
Chris Maier
Yep. And we had even had conversations that far back of like, you know, if I was ever to go to New York. And we talked about me flying into Scranton and you picking us up, spending the night at your place, then we could travel in. Now, we had a certain amount of time and the flight costs because Canada flights are there.
00:49:26:02 – 00:49:52:28
Chris Maier
They’re outrageous. And we just honestly couldn’t afford to fly in to where you are and then travel into this. It just it wasn’t going to work, but you knew well, well in advance it’s going to be there now. I was aware of your anxiety issues at that time. Yes. However, you know, the the Neil episode shed a little more light on just sort of the, the depths of it.
00:49:52:28 – 00:50:16:58
Chris Maier
But but I knew the stories and I know the travel is the source of a lot of your anxiety. My issue where I got upset was not that you didn’t go, but that I don’t feel that you were honest about why you didn’t go even just. No, I know you kept saying, well, there’s this work that you knew.
00:50:17:03 – 00:50:20:15
Chris Maier
You knew dates. That’s months ahead of time.
00:50:20:15 – 00:50:20:47
Agent Palmer
That’s fair.
00:50:20:49 – 00:50:37:42
Chris Maier
I you could you could have blocked off that day. It would not have been that big an issue because you had so much time and that you just couldn’t face me and say, well, I’m not comfortable traveling into the city and I don’t know if I can make it. I would have accepted that.
00:50:37:47 – 00:50:52:57
Agent Palmer
Except the one piece of information you’re forgetting is that when you were planning all of that, you planned that before I lost my one job, and then before I got the next one. Right. So. So there. But it.
00:50:52:57 – 00:51:05:29
Chris Maier
Was still. It was still weeks for you to say, hey, I can’t make it on Friday because I have a meeting. Or you could have come up with a thousand excuses. You still had two weeks.
00:51:05:30 – 00:51:08:28
Agent Palmer
Nope. That’s fair. That’s like, no. You know.
00:51:08:28 – 00:51:15:13
Chris Maier
If the Baltimore Orioles were playing in the park next door, you would have found a way to know you have gone to that game. Do you know what I’m saying?
00:51:15:20 – 00:51:43:04
Agent Palmer
Well, I wouldn’t have because I haven’t been there since any of this either, but I, I, I have made it a habit and, you’re the first person to and but to be fair, you’re the only person with a major gripe, right? Like, I may have done this to Bill or the other Chris or Zapata, but it’s on such a small level because.
00:51:43:09 – 00:52:11:25
Agent Palmer
Because we’re so much more localized that it’s not the one time. Right? But even with them, I, and and and Neil and I didn’t get into this too much, but, like, I don’t know why. I still am slightly not comfortable with that being the reason. Like, I will always find some other reason for it to not be anxiety.
00:52:11:30 – 00:52:32:29
Agent Palmer
As the reason I didn’t. It was definitely the reason I didn’t. But I will always find a reason. Now, even with you, it’s like it doesn’t matter who it is. I mean, if I’m if I’m going to be completely honest, I think I’ve done it to my parents to. Oh, sure. Where it is anxiety. That’s the reason I don’t want to do a thing.
00:52:32:34 – 00:52:35:04
Agent Palmer
But that’s not the reason I’m giving.
00:52:35:09 – 00:53:01:10
Chris Maier
No, because it makes it less personal that way. It it allows you to not to confront the anxiety. And again, I’m not saying it’s as simple as get over it that, you know, that’s not the statement I’m making. But but anxiety is a personal issue that you are dealing with. That is your issue. Yeah. And so if you were to say to something, is there someone sorry, my issue is preventing me from from X.
00:53:01:15 – 00:53:26:17
Chris Maier
Now you kind of feel like it’s on you where if you kind of just just push it off too. Well, this, this outside thing over here that it’s at, that’s fault. And now we don’t have to talk about the elephant in the room addressing my anxiety issues because, well, you know, anxiety is not one of those things, as you said with Neil, you know, quite brilliantly, you don’t just get through it, you don’t just get over it.
00:53:26:17 – 00:53:28:14
Chris Maier
It’s not a button that you push. It’s.
00:53:28:19 – 00:53:51:58
Agent Palmer
You know, the. Yeah, I mean, Neil has the, has the description down pat. It’s like if you told me I only had to deal with this 100 times, but on the 101st one it would be over. That would be perfect. But that’s not how this works. Like and and it’s it’s it’s also not like, well, if you’re good on the 101st, it might come back on the 102nd.
00:53:51:58 – 00:54:26:49
Agent Palmer
And you don’t know what it’s going to be like that time. Then it’s going to be different. And it’s now we’re in a battle of the devil, you know, versus the devil you don’t. And it’s like, all right. So, I tend to keep, like a closer grasp on it, but it, it didn’t feel like. But but again, it, I mean, as we’re talking about it in hindsight, like it just puts you in with not everybody else because like, if you’re not a friend, I don’t even try, like, I don’t, I just, I just don’t know.
00:54:26:49 – 00:54:45:23
Agent Palmer
I just don’t even play right. Like, you know, that’s I know that’s just not happening. So like, but there I like, I mean, it and this is not, this is going to be news to my partner Steph, who did go to see you.
00:54:45:28 – 00:54:48:16
Chris Maier
It she was lovely. We had a great time there.
00:54:48:22 – 00:55:18:51
Agent Palmer
There were definitely some sleepless nights like in those two weeks prior where I was just like. Can I make this happen? Like, and it’s not that’s that’s my personal battle, right? Like I and it’s, well, people out there are like, well why don’t you, why didn’t you share that with, say, Steph or even you? And it’s like, well, cause that’s not like there’s if there was something you could do to help, I would.
00:55:18:56 – 00:55:27:13
Agent Palmer
But this is a personal battle, so to speak. And even vocalizing, it’s not a.
00:55:27:18 – 00:55:28:17
Chris Maier
Way of working through it.
00:55:28:26 – 00:55:54:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah, not not so much, at least in like I. So I have told you, right? Like I didn’t have to. Right. There was never a point in even after we became friends like with the exception of New York, there was never going to be a reason for me to have to bring it up. And I brought it up well before that was even a possibility.
00:55:54:47 – 00:56:04:44
Agent Palmer
So I’m not afraid to vocalize it with people, but it doesn’t make the it doesn’t share the load. I guess.
00:56:04:49 – 00:56:26:49
Chris Maier
Which is fair, but this was the point that I was getting at with this as to why you the bigger reason why you try to divert attention from it. It’s the people that are closest with you, your friends, your partner, your parents. You say that yes, I’m going to make the effort to come up with the excuse, you know, so that I won’t do with other people.
00:56:26:54 – 00:56:57:41
Chris Maier
But I think that’s also part of of a little bit of a defense mechanism. It also allows you to not have to deal with the anxiety. Anxiety is something you cannot control, but it is something you can work on. Yes. And it is something there, there. But again, I’m not I’m generalizing a lot, but there’s different avenues, there’s different techniques, there’s different psychologies to the whole thing that it’s it’s easy to just say, well, I can’t because of anxiety, but what are you doing about it?
00:56:57:41 – 00:57:20:31
Chris Maier
And people who don’t know you, they’re not going to push you. They don’t care. They might make some offhanded joke like he never leaves the Shire or etc. etc. but your real friends, the people that care about you and the people that know you are going to try and push you out of your comfort zone because they care for you and want you to do more, and they don’t want you to miss out on these experiences, and they will make you face it more than you might have.
00:57:20:31 – 00:57:35:11
Agent Palmer
To, then that’s fair. And, and and that’s, you know, if I mean now is the time. Right? So I guess Chris, why are we still friends like I, you know, because this.
00:57:35:16 – 00:57:38:15
Chris Maier
Is this I. Are you not having fun? Are you not? I mean.
00:57:38:19 – 00:57:45:03
Agent Palmer
Of course I’m having fun, but, like, this is. It but be.
00:57:45:08 – 00:58:07:51
Chris Maier
Because I feel, Yeah. Okay. So let’s go. Let’s rewind to, like, the 30 minute mark. Where are you looking for friends? Or are you satisfied with your friend? This conversation satisfies me. It scratches an itch. I feel like Chris and I’ve talked about this all the time. I mean, I went to school, I went to school for a long time.
00:58:08:05 – 00:58:30:54
Chris Maier
There was a period in my life where I was toying with the idea of going to medical school. I have all the prerequisite, you know, classes for it. I went to air traffic control school. You know, in a lot of ways, my mind is geared like an academic. However, my current career is blue collar. Yeah, I go to work every day.
00:58:30:59 – 00:58:57:06
Chris Maier
And, you know, there’s things I love about it. And I love being a business owner, but there are certain parts of of my noggin that just do not get engaged. And they’re you facilitate that for me. There are conversations that I have with you. There are moments that we have together where, you know, you scratch that itch and I can say those things, but you say things in return that make me think of the next thing.
00:58:57:10 – 00:59:09:12
Chris Maier
And, you know, there you’re highlighting parts in my brain, the synapses are firing and stuff that, that I don’t get on a daily basis in, in, in a lot of other aspects. And so that’s why.
00:59:09:17 – 00:59:39:08
Agent Palmer
It’s funny because academics probably the nicest thing people say about me sometimes, but like that is a thing where, you know, it doesn’t come up necessarily, but I do look for people that will challenge me mentally. Right. Like, you want people that are like, I like to think and, you know, of course this is happening now.
00:59:39:08 – 01:00:03:05
Agent Palmer
Like, I didn’t get a chance to ask the other three, but like, I like to think that the other three are in some ways smarter than me. And. Sure. So were you. Right? Like, I mean, we just did a candidate series and that was not I won’t call that necessarily smarter than me because it’s just different information. It’s not like, oh, like, oh, you know, algebra, right.
01:00:03:05 – 01:00:28:07
Agent Palmer
Like that’s and then but you are still teaching me something and you are still enlightening me and, broadening my horizons. Right? It’s it’s all of us who ended up, you know, you you you went to school for different things. I went to school, not for different things, but I was a liberal arts communication major. I couldn’t make up my mind.
01:00:28:08 – 01:00:48:29
Agent Palmer
You end up and no one. No one. That’s like, as a like a freshman in high school. What do you want to be when you go to, like, higher education, liberal arts? No. Everybody’s like, I want to be a doctor. I want to be a lawyer. And then there’s those of us that go, I don’t know, that end up in like, liberal arts, like that’s where you end up right?
01:00:48:40 – 01:00:49:15
Agent Palmer
Because, like.
01:00:49:16 – 01:00:53:10
Chris Maier
I just know I needed to go to school, so I’m here or what happens next.
01:00:53:10 – 01:01:01:13
Agent Palmer
Or just like I’m interested in all of it. Like, oh, yeah, you know. So, and that’s perfect.
01:01:01:24 – 01:01:21:28
Chris Maier
I’m interested in all of it. And I think all these people that we’re talking about that we’re engaging, online and through these friendships, they’re interested in all of it, or at least there’s a large chunk. And in podcasting, I use, I feel like I’ve used the word facilitate a thousand times tonight, but it does it.
01:01:21:32 – 01:01:27:05
Agent Palmer
I’ll edit this down and make this your 15 minute TEDx talk. Don’t worry. Okay. But but it.
01:01:27:05 – 01:01:50:31
Chris Maier
Does. It does allow that engagement of all these different topics and us to have a, even though you’re just a little square on my Skype screen, we are still having a face to face conversation. I mean, we just worked out a few things tonight in the last 15 minutes that we hadn’t really. Yeah. About and and to add to it, the thing that it does that that also allows us to stay friends.
01:01:50:44 – 01:01:55:17
Chris Maier
We challenge one another. I challenge what you think and you challenge what I think.
01:01:55:30 – 01:01:56:21
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:01:56:26 – 01:01:58:48
Chris Maier
And I’m not afraid to challenge you and vice versa.
01:01:58:49 – 01:02:27:23
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It’s it’s also I think, a testament to the fact that, like, there is a lot in dialog, like, I think a lot of things, and, you know, a lot of things get lost in. He’s my golf buddy. He’s my bowling buddy. Like, that’s fine. Like, it’s great that you get together and do those things with those people.
01:02:27:23 – 01:02:47:57
Agent Palmer
Or I play games with that guy, that’s fine. But, like, can you talk to that? Like, you know, because that’s the real I think that’s, you know, the real like maybe crux of the of any friendship. Right. It’s like when there’s nothing to do when, when you’re, when.
01:02:47:57 – 01:02:53:56
Chris Maier
You’re not to all of this is. Yeah. That that is all our relationship has ever done is talk to one another.
01:02:53:56 – 01:03:24:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, that’s, I and I, I don’t think, I don’t think proximity would change it, at least not now. Maybe in the very beginning it would have, but I think we would. All of these have ended up being, you know, like we’ve we’ve done it digitally, right? Like we watched a baseball game together. And we did what you would normally do when you’re watching a game with a friend, like, we, we we told stories.
01:03:24:07 – 01:03:44:14
Agent Palmer
We talked like it was just, you know, all these things that you would do. The only difference. Did you see that? That was stupid. Well, that’s the thing. The only difference was that one of us and I don’t remember because it was a while ago. One of us was a bit ahead. Yeah. It was like, wait until you see that catch, like.
01:03:44:19 – 01:04:10:10
Agent Palmer
But, we’ve we’ve done this and we have these common interests and, and I, I like the idea, you know, what? One of the more unique things is the international flavor. But that like even before I met, you had a small inkling into Canada. Not big, but like of the two of us, who’s the bigger CFL fan? And.
01:04:10:17 – 01:04:42:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah, right. You know, like, there are things, that just kind of connect us in ways that just kind of defies all logic from prior to. Right. Like you go back to that episode where we talked first concerts, like, so we both went to Aerosmith first. Like there are just I’m not going to say it was written in the stars, because you can read these things in other things, and it’s easier to read things in hindsight and it’s not destiny, right?
01:04:42:53 – 01:05:19:27
Agent Palmer
Like, you could have not been on that podcast, right? Like we, we, we know all the alternates, but all of those things did happen and we’re here. I was one of my favorite stories, and I haven’t told this to really anyone. So I get to tell it. Now, is that your wife wanted to send me a Canadian Classic holiday DVD and sent me something else instead.
01:05:19:32 – 01:05:26:55
Agent Palmer
What? What did she send me? Chris. We. All right.
01:05:27:00 – 01:05:47:46
Chris Maier
Quick. Could the quick version of the story, the the film you’re talking about. And I can see it on my shelf right from here, and it’s called, Cooper Cooper’s camera. And it’s a Canadian made Christmas film with by Samantha Bee and her husband, Jason Jones. We bought ten of them from Walmart for, like, five bucks apiece. Wrapped them and sent them as gifts.
01:05:48:00 – 01:06:23:02
Chris Maier
But all of them didn’t go out. And we were trying to locate one, to send to you. And we were digging through the closet and we found this wrapped DVD, and I said, sweet, this must be one of them. Let’s get it out to Jason. Not thinking to look what was wrapped, because what would be in there other than the pre wrapped Christmas gifts that we gave to other people, forgetting that 5 or 6 years prior to that, to family members who attended, who had gone home before the DVD was made, we actually sent them wedding videos wrapped.
01:06:23:02 – 01:06:38:54
Chris Maier
And that’s what you received. The funniest part of the story was you thought that was totally normal. Hey, thanks for the gift. I thought, great, and then you you made some comment that you messaged me. You’re like, like, I can’t believe how little Rowan is.
01:06:38:54 – 01:06:56:27
Agent Palmer
Or I’m like, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah. No, so I didn’t. Well, first of all, I didn’t ask for the movie you were going to send. Like, this was unprompted. So, like, I just got a thing in the mail and was like, oh, okay. All right. And then I popped it in and I was like, whoa, holy.
01:06:56:31 – 01:07:18:30
Agent Palmer
Like, wow. They’re like, it’s just. I was just like, all right, well, I guess, I guess now I get to see it. The it’s because you it was I what I do remember is how was your week, honey had kind of just started around there, but you guys hadn’t told your full or like you hadn’t gotten to do your full origin story yet.
01:07:18:34 – 01:07:46:09
Agent Palmer
So while I knew bits and pieces, like I and you kind of touched on, like, I finally got to see the wedding and I was like, all right, well, because it no, it’s not the most normal. But like, we had talked about things like that. So for me, it wasn’t the, like it wasn’t like it was out of the blue to receive anything, but like, it wasn’t like, oh, like this.
01:07:46:09 – 01:08:11:32
Agent Palmer
Like, no, it was like, okay, well, now I get to. All right. You know, I didn’t even know them at this point. And, Yeah, I watched it, and I don’t remember what I. You’re right. I don’t remember what I texted you, but I texted you something, and you were like, what are you watching? I just took a picture of my TV because it was the.
01:08:11:32 – 01:08:16:12
Agent Palmer
Yes, yes, yes. And and I don’t know, like, I don’t know.
01:08:16:12 – 01:08:22:22
Chris Maier
I think I messaged back, Holy shit.
01:08:22:26 – 01:08:22:37
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:08:22:50 – 01:08:25:32
Chris Maier
I don’t even watch that video.
01:08:25:37 – 01:08:39:41
Agent Palmer
Well I mean I haven’t, I have it’s not like a rewatch, but I did watch it the one time all the way through, you know, and see what happens. I mean, I know how it ends. Yeah.
01:08:39:46 – 01:08:43:44
Agent Palmer
Wow.
01:08:43:48 – 01:08:49:04
Agent Palmer
You.
01:08:49:09 – 01:09:24:00
Agent Palmer
Wikipedia defines friendship as a relationship of mutual affection between people. My trusty fucking wagons defines it as a mutual regard cherished by kindred minds. Both are accurate, and while the 2nd May be more to my liking, and not just because it is much more poetic friendship, well, it can be defined by definition, is mainly defined by experience. Whether you are still, as I am, friends with someone from high school or college, or someone from long ago, or more recently, you don’t need a definition to know who your friends are.
01:09:24:05 – 01:09:52:58
Agent Palmer
You just know. But how do you know? That’s the whole reason for this four episode series. Perhaps there will be some commonality between my four closest friends, but perhaps I’m the only common theme. No matter the theme, the consistencies, or the aberrations, one thing remains true. These are my friends. By any definition. Thanks for listening to The Polymer Files episode 28.
01:09:53:02 – 01:10:11:43
Agent Palmer
As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer. You can tweet the show at the Palmer Files and my friend Chris at Chris Meyer BCC.
01:10:11:48 – 01:10:29:43
Agent Palmer
You can hear more of him on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast, or with his lovely wife Kristen on their lifestyle podcast. How was your week, honey? You can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com, and all links will be available in the show notes. Email can be sent to the show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com.
01:10:29:43 – 01:10:44:34
Agent Palmer
If you have any feedback on this or any previous episode. If you’ve enjoyed this series, what you’ve taken away from the series, or if there’s a topic or guest you’d like me to consider.
01:10:44:39 – 01:10:51:44
Unknown
You.
01:10:51:49 – 01:10:58:48
Unknown
Be.
01:10:58:53 – 01:11:05:42
Unknown
Me.
01:11:05:47 – 01:11:10:56
Unknown
Leave.
01:11:11:01 – 01:11:20:46
Unknown
Me.
01:11:20:51 – 01:11:24:39
Unknown
Leave. Chris.
01:11:24:54 – 01:11:27:56
Agent Palmer
Do you have one final question for me?
01:11:28:01 – 01:11:54:45
Chris Maier
I do. Is there a scenario or a way that you could possibly see yourself making your way up here to come visit us sometime? We came out there to to to. I mean, we were we were doing other things, but we were in the area and wanted to meet up with you. It was important. Is is there a scenario that you could see where you would be able to come up to the great White North and spend some time with us?
01:11:54:50 – 01:12:28:45
Agent Palmer
So, I mean, this this does nothing for the listening audience. As I’m looking through my desk drawer, as I but but I did get a passport this year. Oh, because I do have family on the other side of Canada. Closer to me. Now, what I will tell you is one of. Despite my anxiety, I still have the dream of taking a road trip.
01:12:28:49 – 01:12:53:19
Agent Palmer
Because while travel does make me anxious, at least if I’m driving, I have a little more control. I. I big city still freak me the hell out, which is a whole thing I’m going to have to figure out along the way. Unless I just stop in small towns from here to there. And luckily, you don’t live in a big town, so.
01:12:53:20 – 01:13:17:34
Agent Palmer
I mean, it does work out. My biggest issue now is, finance and job, right? I mean, that’s always the thing, and I don’t I don’t know if I talked about. I might have talked about it with Neil off mike. Right. But it’s one of those things where if I had two months, it wouldn’t I would hope it wouldn’t take me two months to get from here out west and back.
01:13:17:39 – 01:13:41:26
Agent Palmer
But I would love to have two months in the event that I freak out in Des Moines and need to stay a couple days and collect myself. So that’s the the real issue, because I don’t know if the anxiety of you have two weeks, you have one week to get there and one week to get like, I don’t know if that, but I’m not writing it out completely.
01:13:41:26 – 01:14:06:27
Agent Palmer
Like I got the passport to at least get a little travel. And I know that, despite the fact that it would be ironic to the nth degree that we would meet up in Toronto and not New York, we have talked about the fact that, you know, you haven’t been back East for a while in your own country.
01:14:06:32 – 01:14:12:01
Agent Palmer
And I’m trying like, because my.
01:14:12:06 – 01:14:42:12
Agent Palmer
Last year I picked a CFL team. I didn’t pick a good I just picked a CFL team, man. Like, I couldn’t have picked worse if I had tried. Right. But my name is Jason, and my my aunt and uncle already have season tickets to the Argonauts, and it was a way for me to bond with my aunt and uncle just to be like, because they go, which I’ll be like, hey, I was watching the game digitally, you know, whatever.
01:14:42:17 – 01:15:06:15
Agent Palmer
So it just happenstance. It became my favorite. I that was the team I chose, right? So they want me to come up and go to a game with them. Yeah. If everything could work out, at minimum, that would be. But I do want to see like I live in a small wine area. You live in a wine area like I would like.
01:15:06:21 – 01:15:28:28
Agent Palmer
I know it’s beautiful country. I’ve seen the pictures. I do want to get there. It’s circumstance has to be right. I think, because it’s, you know, and Neil and I touched on it a little bit, like if I came out and you freaked out and it’s just like, hey, how you doing? Nice to meet you. And then I’ll go like, that’s fine, maybe.
01:15:28:28 – 01:15:51:20
Agent Palmer
But I don’t think that that would settle. Well, I it would need to be substantial or at least a few days and, you know, it would, it would kill your wife, the planner, because I just getting there would be enough for me. I don’t need to see. I don’t need to see anything. Like, let’s let me just get here first.
01:15:51:20 – 01:16:16:47
Agent Palmer
Right. But it is a thing where I. It’s not it’s not. I’m not completely erasing it from the cards. But I mean, the honestly, the passport was the, the big the first big step in all of that. The rest is now timing and circumstance. So we will see. But I’m not I’m not writing it out.
01:16:16:52 – 01:16:19:58
Chris Maier
We’ll see you when the borders open up.
01:16:20:02 – 01:16:21:13
Agent Palmer
When’s that going to be?
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).