Episode 79 features renaissance man and storyteller Jerry J.B. Manas, author of many books including the freshly minted tale The Mirror Man.
We discuss the writing process, collaboration, details, outlines, idea hoarding, entering new mediums, how everything really boils down to storytelling, and much much more.
Throughout the conversation, we discuss:
- Science Fiction and Business Writing
- Starting in I.T.
- Project Management
- Writing better than doing…
- Hitchcock and Spielberg
- Completing the story
- Cyclical journies
- Management Consulting
- “What do you do?”
- Storytelling
- Co-Authoring
- Process
- Collaboration
- Sequels
- The Mirror Man (Behind the pages)
- Details
- Fleming and Crichton
- Artists as Humans not Content Machines
- Deadlines
- Outlines
- Idea Generation and Hoarding
- Moving into another medium
- Staying organized
- Book trailers
- Writing tips
- And much more
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
The Mirror Man marries spy thrills, strange chills, and more
The Thorough Interrogation of Renaissance Man and Author J.B. “Jerry” Manas
Atticus is Fast-Paced Sci-Fi Fun with Timely Application
The Kronos Interference is Brilliant: A Spoiler Free Book Review
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:22:52
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer Dot. The rocket recollection launched fond memories of the Argonauts clearing out the Clutter of My Mind volume two. And it’s nice to have friends like Professor Sarah, who can always school you at a moment’s notice. This is The Palmer Files, episode 79 with Renaissance man and storyteller Jerry JB Manas, author of many books including the freshly minted tale The Mirror Man.
00:00:23:06 – 00:01:06:36
Agent Palmer
We discussed the writing process, collaboration details, outlines, ideas, hoarding, entering new mediums, how everything really boils down to storytelling, and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:01:06:40 – 00:01:27:52
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 79th episode is Jerry JB Manas, author of The Mirror Man, his newest release, as well as coauthor of The Kronos Interference and many other titles, both fiction and Non. I first met him at a local convention where he was sitting at a table with his Kronos interference coauthor, Ed Miller.
00:01:27:57 – 00:01:48:00
Agent Palmer
That is where I picked up the book, and I’ve read much of what both Jerry and Ed have published since. So I am a fan. But in another age. Not so long ago, I interrogated Jerry in a long email Q&A for the blog, which still exists and is a great then and now look at both Jerry and myself as far as conversations and back and forth go.
00:01:48:04 – 00:02:09:57
Agent Palmer
Link in the description for those interested. In the meantime, what is in store for you is a crash course and a look behind the scenes at how my guest writes books and comes up with ideas. It is also a conversation about inspirations and influences, starting with how writing business is like writing fiction, but also covering how sometimes passions find you seek collaboration.
00:02:09:58 – 00:02:39:07
Agent Palmer
There are really no true solo creative endeavors. The details, deadlines, treating artists like people outlines idea generation and hoarding how everything really can be distilled down to storytelling and well, all of that and a whole lot more is coming your way shortly. But first, if you want to discuss the episode as you listener, afterwards you can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest, Jerry JB Manas at JB underscore Manas, that’s Magnus, or at Jerry Manas.
00:02:39:08 – 00:02:59:43
Agent Palmer
The JB is for his fiction works and the Jerry’s for his nonfiction works. You can find more information about my guest at Jerry Manas.com for his nonfiction work, or at JB Manas Com for his fiction work. Don’t forget, you can see all my writings and rantings on Agent palmer.com, including a few reviews to some of my guests previously published novels.
00:02:59:43 – 00:03:12:08
Agent Palmer
And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer Files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s turn the page.
00:03:12:13 – 00:03:34:44
Agent Palmer
Jerry, you once told me that writing business can seem like science fiction, and I know that you have written both business and science fiction. So I was just wondering if if you could expand on that for the audience because you’ve you’ve written both and you’ve made that connection.
00:03:34:49 – 00:03:54:30
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Absolutely. And in fact, it’s funny because that statement I got at a convention, I was talking with Richard Dreyfuss from, of drawers. And another thing and, we were talking about writing and I said, he said, since you write, you just write science fiction. I said, why also write business? He said, well, isn’t that a bit like science fiction?
00:03:54:30 – 00:04:00:13
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I said, come to think of it, it is so. So I kind of stole that from from him. But,
00:04:00:17 – 00:04:03:20
Agent Palmer
Well, good writers borrow, great writers steal. They go.
00:04:03:24 – 00:04:34:42
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
That’s true. But, yeah, it’s the, I got started writing articles, actually nonfiction and even in nonfiction was on lessons from history from, for instance, Napoleon’s rise and Fall. And even the nonfiction felt like fiction. And, yes, when you start getting into, you know, drawing lessons from all over the place, from history and science and whatever, and of course, the way people manage companies, that’s where it gets like science fiction is, is the delusional way in which people manage companies.
00:04:34:42 – 00:04:37:15
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
It’s literally like out of a Dilbert cartoon.
00:04:37:20 – 00:04:59:03
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I and that seems to be, and my, my go to for this analogy that I’m about to use is always sports, which is, you know, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, it was a they were covered in a different way by the media back then. So we just didn’t know that they may or may not have been horrible people.
00:04:59:08 – 00:05:13:36
Agent Palmer
I’m and I’m not casting aspersions. I’m just saying these are things we don’t know versus today where if a leader of a company leader of a baseball team, it doesn’t matter. We know if you’re horrible or not. It just wasn’t covered.
00:05:13:41 – 00:05:33:01
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, yeah. And even, these days, even with things being covered, sometimes we don’t know the truth behind the scenes or. Or you apply one thing to everything. You know, everybody saw, you know, Jack Welch turned around. I thought, oh, let’s let’s be like Jack Welch and, you know, lay off half the workforce and different things. Doesn’t necessarily work.
00:05:33:01 – 00:05:33:53
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Reorganization.
00:05:33:53 – 00:05:54:58
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Being being a leader is tough. I, I, I’ve spent my entire professional career trying not to be in charge of people projects. Sure, but try not to be in charge of people. And I don’t know, I, I don’t know where that comes from. I think maybe self-preservation.
00:05:55:03 – 00:06:13:16
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
It could be. What’s funny, I started out in the IT field and then I moved in management and then I really focused around Y2K on project management, leading programs and the Y2K conversion and the conversion to the euro currency. When that all happened and I got more in the project management, and then I realized I like writing about it better.
00:06:13:16 – 00:06:14:29
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I like doing it.
00:06:14:33 – 00:06:26:15
Agent Palmer
So now, was writing a passion early on, or did you just like, you know, you realized you liked writing about it better than doing it? Or was it always kind of there?
00:06:26:20 – 00:06:42:53
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Oh, it’s kind of funny you mentioned that because when I was writing articles, I would write at first I would write like, you know, you know, handy tips and things like that. And then I would start looking into lessons from history and writing articles about that, which is ironic since history is my worst subject in high school. But that’s beside the point.
00:06:42:58 – 00:06:43:10
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So.
00:06:43:19 – 00:06:45:01
Agent Palmer
That’s all about teachers.
00:06:45:06 – 00:06:59:58
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
It was all about teachers. Yeah. That’s true. So I figured, you know, who cares about the dates and the in the battles? You know, what I want to know is why and what would you do differently today and things like that. So that’s what I try to bring into the picture. And I always think in terms of analogies and sort of abstract thinking.
00:06:59:58 – 00:07:25:37
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So I brought that together. But I wrote articles and I thought that’s what got me started in writing. And then I but I was always fascinated with films and books, and I studied Alfred Hitchcock and, and Steven Spielberg like the way some people study scripture and, so that really, you know, got me interested. But then I remembered when I was a kid, you know, like a teen, I would write my own little sci fi stories.
00:07:25:37 – 00:07:33:23
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I wouldn’t do anything with them, but I would. I would actually write a number of sci fi stories I wrote, and I forgot all about that. And I remembered I actually I did kind of write back then.
00:07:33:23 – 00:07:33:44
Agent Palmer
All right.
00:07:33:44 – 00:07:36:05
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So, between writing and art and music.
00:07:36:10 – 00:08:03:37
Agent Palmer
So this is my question to you because I, I was, I guess I was like you, I was a bit of a dabbler. And I did, a lot of poetry back then when I, when I, in my formative years, I, I attempted short stories, but I can honestly say I do not think I ever finished even a short story back then, like I have since I’ve written a couple short stories.
00:08:03:37 – 00:08:16:06
Agent Palmer
But back then, when we’re talking, you know, before our, our teen years are over. I may have attempted many, but I don’t think I ever finished one. Did. Did you finish them?
00:08:16:11 – 00:08:34:26
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I did finish several short stories. Of course, when I look back, they were kind of laughable, you know? You know, I was a kid, I was writing short stories and sci fi stories, and in one they’re trying to avoid a nuclear weapon. And they hid behind some rocks like, that’s kind of no. Order in this futuristic, starship.
00:08:34:26 – 00:08:41:41
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And then they fastened themselves with rope and, like, the back. Well, not too realistic, but it was fun and creative.
00:08:41:55 – 00:09:04:28
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, it’s exciting that these things end up like, I, I’ve done this show for 70 plus episodes and it always amazes me. My own journey tends to be more cyclical than you realize, but it’s not until you start really looking back that those things occur to you.
00:09:04:33 – 00:09:14:07
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, yeah. And say sometimes you don’t, you know, and sometimes if you have a passion for something or a talent for something, it ends up finding you. It just might take a few decades.
00:09:14:12 – 00:09:37:47
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Well, I, I wanted to ask you as well, you are an author of, fiction and nonfiction, and I want to call you a writer as well. But you also have dabbled in other industries and different job titles. When you when when somebody meets you for the first time and they say, what do you do? What what do you tell them?
00:09:37:47 – 00:09:54:31
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
That’s always a loaded question. If I don’t know them very well, I’m going to meet them in passing. You know, sometimes I’ll just say to make it easier to say I’m a management consultant. I’m also an author. Okay? I’m usually like, geared towards the, the author part. And they could care less about the management consultant part.
00:09:54:36 – 00:10:06:52
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So what do you write? And, you know, again, I’ll mention in passing, oh, I write some nonfiction books, but I, you know, since my passion is fiction, I usually end up leaning more towards that. And that’s when, you know, they usually get more interested.
00:10:06:57 – 00:10:14:09
Agent Palmer
Okay, okay. And I mean, is the complicated one just a list of, like, these are all the hats I can wear.
00:10:14:14 – 00:10:48:36
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
That’s the complicated one. Okay. Even describing my, so-called day job, you know, even describing the, the job in management consulting, I wear a lot of hats. There is a bit of writing and marketing and consulting and and quality testing, all different things. But, I think at the heart of a lot of what I do is writing and communicating, whether that’s communicating through marketing materials, writing about, how to be a better project manager or, how to lead people better or writing stories.
00:10:48:36 – 00:10:50:43
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And in a way, it’s all storytelling.
00:10:50:47 – 00:10:58:28
Agent Palmer
I was going to say storytelling seems to be I mean, what so would you simplify to call yourself a storyteller?
00:10:58:33 – 00:11:04:40
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, I think so, I think so it’s, that that kind of runs the, runs across as a common theme.
00:11:04:40 – 00:11:19:43
Agent Palmer
I think I’ve read a bunch of your stories. Okay. And, and, and, I think I’ve reviewed most of them on the blog. The, the one that introduced me to you, I believe, was the Kronos interference.
00:11:19:48 – 00:11:20:11
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And yeah.
00:11:20:19 – 00:11:44:06
Agent Palmer
I loved that book, but I, I wanted to ask you, you’ve written that that was you coauthored that one. Yeah. And so just how did that come about? Because when you like. So as we’re speaking the mirror man is, is is releasing and that’s you have an idea and you write it. But the Kronos interference is you and someone else.
00:11:44:19 – 00:11:50:34
Agent Palmer
What’s that like? Like who? What’s the genesis of the idea? How’s that come together?
00:11:50:38 – 00:12:08:57
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
There was a lot of give and take, and it’s funny, I met up with, a friend of mine, her husband. I went to, kindergarten with her, and we had a 35th reunion. I’m dating myself here, but, so we were there, and her husband was talking about how he wanted to write a sci fi book.
00:12:08:57 – 00:12:32:20
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
He used to write, sort of Star Trek short stories. Not published, but, you know, would do that. Yeah. And, he had this idea about a time travel story where a scientist travels back in time to to kill Hitler, and it had a ripple effect. I mean, there’s been loads of stories about killing Hitler. Yeah, but what interested me was, was sort of the ripple effect, in which case, you know, because something happened.
00:12:32:20 – 00:12:48:31
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Well, then Kennedy lost the election, and because that happened, it created this whole ripple effect that he had to figure out how to undo. So I like that concept. But I said, well, you know, if this guy is a brilliant scientist, you know, as much as he I’m sure he hates Hitler, what’s going to drive him to want to do that?
00:12:48:36 – 00:13:12:12
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So I started coming up with some ideas there, and I had been working on a story at the time about an underwater discovery, and I was talking with with Ed Miller, who was my friend, that we we wrote it together, and I said there might be a way we could actually combine these two. And we did. And that, you know, sort of led to the whole tapestry that became the Kronos interference.
00:13:12:17 – 00:13:41:32
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And it was interesting. It was fun because it was creative. We went back and forth. I did the primary writing on that. It was based on on Ed’s idea for a story. But what I would do is I would write, I would draft chapters, send it to him, we would go back and forth and discuss what we want to happen and, and, you know, things and I would go back and make revisions and there are some other books I worked with Ed on where he did the first draft, and then I did, revisions and things.
00:13:41:32 – 00:13:59:42
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So, so I had already been I had written a number of books in the nonfiction market, so I had the background and the ending and all that stuff. So, I kind of took the lead there, but at any rate, it was a collaborative effort. And, we put our heads together and I think we came up with a good story.
00:13:59:47 – 00:14:07:13
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And one of these days we we already had a sequel outline. So one of these days I want to get back to that is sort of everything keeps getting in the way.
00:14:07:18 – 00:14:19:07
Agent Palmer
How do you compare the the collaborative nature of that versus the solo nature of your other things, like is it more fulfilling, more fun? Is it just the same but different?
00:14:19:12 – 00:14:45:54
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
It’s I think it’s in some ways it’s fulfilling to be able to bounce things back and forth, to be able to share in the joy of successes, share in the expenses and share and, you know, and just we always have a ball going to the we do a lot of comic cons together. So we we like meeting the, you know, the readers and talking with people and, we go to a lot of the, the events and then we speak every year.
00:14:45:55 – 00:15:03:26
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
It well, up until the up until the pandemic, we were speaking every year at the Comic-Con events and always had fun with it. So, either way, it wrote some of his books afterwards, I wrote some of mine, and then we do the events together. He sells his, I sell mine, and then we sell the ones that we do together.
00:15:03:33 – 00:15:15:10
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
We’re working on another one together. Our two, actually. So, so we, you know, we still we always, collaborate. We’re good friends, and, Yeah. And then we’ll continue to probably to do our own books and do some together.
00:15:15:15 – 00:15:54:52
Agent Palmer
So I will tell you, as a, I don’t want, I don’t know what to call myself as a sole creator. I don’t think anything I’ve ever done has been solely non collaborative. Right. Because, well, while you and Ed are, you know, sharing the authorship of some of those projects, you know, every I think most of my blog posts are edited by someone else because I’ve got friends around me that I’m like, here’s another, pair of eyes or, you know, even just the intros and outros for this podcast, I read them to someone else just for another.
00:15:54:52 – 00:16:22:48
Agent Palmer
Like, I’m always, whether they want to or not. My friends get pulled into the collaboration because I just, I can create in a vacuum, but I think it’s just slightly better. You know, just see it, you know, even though it’s not like, maybe face to face, but I’m on a Skype call and I’m reading the next intro, and I see his face and I go, well, this is new because I’m a podcaster.
00:16:22:48 – 00:16:34:12
Agent Palmer
I’m speaking to a microphone most of the time. So seeing your face clearly, you didn’t like that line. What is it about? And there’s just something collaborative about it. Do you have a few people?
00:16:34:17 – 00:16:51:43
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Absolutely. In fact, I the book wouldn’t be the same without them, actually. So I, I agree, I’m glad you brought that up because I don’t think anybody writes in a total vacuum. I’m sure maybe, you know, some people do, but, but for me, I need the camaraderie and to be able to bounce things off of people, get opinions.
00:16:51:43 – 00:17:08:57
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And there’s a small group of people. One of them is the, She was the editor on the Kronos interference. And she she since got out of editing to write her own books. But, but I always, you know, bounce things off her, and she always gives me her thoughts and opinions. And what I like about it is she doesn’t say, oh, it’s great.
00:17:08:57 – 00:17:32:18
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
She she’s candid with her advice and there’s another friend who’s an excellent, she’s a writer of nonfiction books, but she’s an avid reader and she’s excellent at her insights and especially I was concerned about getting the right perspective with the Lila mars character in the book, to make sure I had the female perspective. And, and she really got me to change some things around the book.
00:17:32:18 – 00:17:46:35
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
She said, I don’t think she would do this or I don’t think she would act that way. And, you know, so, you know, sometimes I would send it to her and she’d say, absolutely not. She’d say, you don’t want to do that. I’m like, yeah, I guess, yeah. And every time I thought about it, she was right.
00:17:46:39 – 00:18:00:04
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And so I went back and, you know, changed some things and it wouldn’t, it wouldn’t have been the same book without her input. And, so I made sure to include that in the acknowledgments as well, because, it really does help that people to bounce things off of.
00:18:00:14 – 00:18:11:34
Agent Palmer
No, I know you’ve written other female characters, but was. Yeah. Was she your first lead in the mirror, man? I mean, she kind of a lead, a co-lead, but. Well, she. Yeah, I mean.
00:18:11:39 – 00:18:36:05
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
She started out as a side character and then there was so much depth that was added and she became a co-lead. Really? Yeah. The character in Atticus, the lead character was a female detective, too. I spoke to a friend who was a female police officer, and it gave me a lot of good insights, there, in terms of what it’s like going out and, you know, going out into the field and things like that to make sure all the terminology was correct.
00:18:36:05 – 00:19:01:26
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And, and, you know, again, for the mirror, man, I spoke with everybody from police officers to my brother is a physicist. But from the scientific aspects of it and, you know, and again, the one friend I had, she was able to give me some really good insights into the Lila character and some of, you know, some of Leila’s backstory actually came from her backstory, which really added a lot of depth to it, which was good.
00:19:01:40 – 00:19:47:48
Agent Palmer
Now I, I want to talk about details for a moment. There’s a lot of globetrotting in, the mirror, man, but you focus it as a part of it around your home town. Right? And I have been, I don’t know if spy fiction from a from a European counts, because everything’s based in London, but I’ve been reading, some Canadian authors that, from Vancouver, that base almost most of their stuff in Vancouver and I, I wonder, I wanted to ask, is it is it familiarity that makes it easy for details, or is it there a pride that you want to include your local area in, in the, narrative?
00:19:47:53 – 00:20:09:03
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Well, it’s sort of a little bit of both. I would say it’s, some of it is, you know, they say write what you know, so I, I know people like reading about places in depth enough to feel like they’re there. And I figure, well, what better place to write about than a place I’m familiar with and I can talk about and give people a sense of being there because I was there.
00:20:09:08 – 00:20:27:27
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Of course, I write a lot of other locations in my stories, and for that, there, either it’s a place I’ve been or I’ve had to do a lot of research. A few places I actually had to do virtual online tours and, or watched the YouTube video or I call actually called somebody that works there and ask them some specific questions.
00:20:27:32 – 00:20:36:30
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So, so there’s always a bit of fact, that I mix in with the fiction in terms of location, history, things like that.
00:20:36:35 – 00:20:44:00
Agent Palmer
Now, is that something that you picked up from other authors or just other media?
00:20:44:05 – 00:21:04:51
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Well, I think the two big influences for me, from a writing perspective, yeah, we’re Ian Fleming and Michael Crichton. You know, I started out reading all the Fleming books, and I liked his sense of place, his sense of description, to the point where he would get into what meals bond had, where you feel like you were there and you taste the meals and, and get a sense of the place.
00:21:04:51 – 00:21:26:24
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And it was almost like travelogs in addition to being stories. Yeah, but they weren’t too much detail. It slows it down. So that’s what I tried to find that same balance. And Michael Crichton always injected enough historical fact or scientific fact to the point where you believe that something is real or could happen. And I always try to, to inject that as well.
00:21:26:29 – 00:21:31:17
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So I think a combination of those two sort of, you know, drove me in that direction.
00:21:31:22 – 00:21:56:09
Agent Palmer
Crichton is, I love Crichton and and but he astounds me at times because, I recently reread a bunch of his stuff, specifically Jurassic Park and The Lost World, and I was shocked it like it had been a while. Okay, I like I’m a fan of the movies too. I like Spielberg, but the books are something different.
00:21:56:09 – 00:22:18:31
Agent Palmer
But I was shocked to, I don’t know, rediscovered that The Lost World, while it’s a full novel, reads like a short story or like a small play like it doesn’t feel like you’re holding a novel in your hands, but you finish it and you go, that what I did like? It doesn’t feel like you’ve read a novel. I almost felt like slightly tricked.
00:22:18:31 – 00:22:20:16
Agent Palmer
Like what? What what was that?
00:22:20:20 – 00:22:40:16
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Well, yeah, I think I think you’re right. I think that Lost World. I did get that feel of Jurassic Park. I think it got in the more depth. And another book I loved. I didn’t care for the movie as much, with sphere, which it had an excellent cast. I was surprised, but I thought the, the book that and Jurassic Park to me both read like films, which I liked.
00:22:40:16 – 00:22:43:22
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I can envision the film playing in my head as I was reading it.
00:22:43:27 – 00:23:11:05
Agent Palmer
I think sphere’s one. I know I read that I, I think it’s the curse of being a, a reader at a young age. As you take I read sphere way too young. I’ll admit that right now. Okay. So I’m sure what I remember of the reading is not very much. And what my takeaway is, it’s not nearly what it should be or what it would be if I pick it up again.
00:23:11:10 – 00:23:11:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:23:11:53 – 00:23:32:02
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
But I think it Lost world, if I remember correctly. I think that was written after the Jurassic Park film came out. Yeah. And then he was under pressure to write a sequel, and I think it was one of those a life imitating art, I think, where the films probably sort of, inspired the that sequel, you know, the book in terms of that.
00:23:32:07 – 00:23:37:20
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So I think that felt more like, like an adaptation of a film, even. It was written as a book.
00:23:37:29 – 00:24:02:37
Agent Palmer
It could be, it could be. And I also think that, like, I don’t think we are, and I look, I, I’ve, I’ve been having an internal it I’ve been having an internal monologue fight with myself for about the past six months because I, I have these conversations with, you’re a storyteller. You’re an author. I will call you an artist.
00:24:02:41 – 00:24:31:23
Agent Palmer
And for some reason, I, I, I have a hard time calling myself an artist, even though, like, I’m still manipulating things in a way and storytelling. But but I do think maybe removed from that. And maybe that’s why I remove myself from it. We we don’t treat you as an artist well enough, because as we read your book and then we want more or we, we, we start creating an expectation.
00:24:31:28 – 00:24:39:52
Agent Palmer
And you are no longer a human being. You are no longer Jerry. You’re no longer JB. You’re just a machine to give me another story.
00:24:39:57 – 00:24:42:28
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Right. And and that’s that’s George R.R. Martin.
00:24:42:31 – 00:25:12:13
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s the thing. Like he’s the most, you know, visible and probably high profile of all of these things, but I think, you know, I’ll admit to being that fan. I’m pretty sure there’s an email chain from me to you after I read the Kronos interference being like, what? When’s the next one? You know, and that’s, you know, I, I do that because I’m a fan, but I also do that because, you know, I just want you to like, I want you to know that.
00:25:12:13 – 00:25:22:49
Agent Palmer
But I think it’s also not like I wouldn’t do that now. I think I’ve grown up even in that period of time, because I don’t it’s not fair to you.
00:25:22:53 – 00:25:40:51
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Well, I think you know, anybody that’s a fan of a book or who reads it is anxious, especially when you leave something that teases a sequel. You’re kind of waiting for it. So I think, you know, I think basically what happened there was that Ed and I both got into some different things. He wanted to write his, young adult Star Trek type books.
00:25:40:56 – 00:26:00:19
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And then so I was started writing something else. And but we’re both talking. We said, you know, we really should get back to that because there were not quite a few readers of it that are waiting for it. And I had outlined a sequel that I thought addressed one issue I had with the the ending, sort of where it was, there was more that I wanted to put in.
00:26:00:19 – 00:26:17:01
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And then we were, you know, up against the clock to get it released and all that. But then we thought, well, then it would make it a little bit too long. But, I think by putting it in the sequel, it actually works out perfectly because it explains a lot of the things that happened that I’m sure a lot of readers are probably asking of, why did all this happen at the end?
00:26:17:06 – 00:26:33:55
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
You know, why did you know they choose him? Don’t. Without giving too much away? Yeah, there’s a very good explanation for it. And that’s what the sequel was all about. And we even have a title called The Kronos Prophecy. So I think, it should be pretty interesting. I’m anxious to, to actually get started on it now.
00:26:33:55 – 00:26:35:33
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
It’s big and complex, but.
00:26:35:38 – 00:26:54:05
Agent Palmer
Well, I, I want to ask because I don’t think a lot of people understand this. You mentioned up against a deadline. And I think a lot of people that want to, maybe write their first novel, it’s kind of very similar to, like, a band’s first album, like, yeah, you’ve got all the time in the world.
00:26:54:18 – 00:27:22:21
Agent Palmer
This is like, you know, you’ve spent years perfecting these songs or this story, and then you get it published either on CD or vinyl or in a book form, and then somebody’s like, well, can you write another? And now all of a sudden you don’t have all that time and that world, what’s it like? You know, in the I mean, you you’ve written multiple books in many platforms, you know, and yeah, it’s like, what’s the what’s the how?
00:27:22:30 – 00:27:28:16
Agent Palmer
I, I don’t know, do you, you know, what’s the deadline stuff, the pressure, the.
00:27:28:21 – 00:27:47:08
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Well, well, the difference is I’ve written a number of books for big publishers from Harpercollins. Two or the Nelson Business was bought by Harpercollins and then McGraw Hill. And, you know, when you have a deadline, usually I would, I would outline a book. I would I have a sense and even with the Mirror Man, I had outline them an outline, right.
00:27:47:08 – 00:28:06:17
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Outline every chapter and everything I was going to go in it. So by the time I was writing, I was filling in the blanks. But I also ended up, as always, straying from the outline because I might get three quarters through and say, yeah, I think I want to go in this direction, and then that’s fine. But anyway, get back to your question with the other books.
00:28:06:17 – 00:28:26:13
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I had these outlines and it enabled me to to stay with the deadline. And that was a it was a hard there’s two things. There’s a target and a deadline. And when you’re dealing with a publisher, it’s a deadline. When you’re, writing an independently published book, it’s a target. You’re setting yourself a target. And, you know, you can, you know, split from it.
00:28:26:13 – 00:28:41:23
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Ideally, you want to just still try to stick to it. And I think with this one, since it was our first, fiction book together, and Ed’s more of a sales guy, and I, he’s the one that’s like the driver and says, hey, we got to get this out by this date because this is a good time to release this and all that.
00:28:41:28 – 00:29:09:19
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I think we were putting some self-imposed pressure on ourselves. Yeah. I wanted to say let’s take another three months and really nail this ending and get it right. So we were going back and forth, but in the end we released it where we were, I think, okay, with the ending, if I had my druthers, I’d rather have gone back and, and, you know, spend a few more months and, and, but I think it’s just as well it’ll end up in the sequel without making the first book too long.
00:29:09:24 – 00:29:18:22
Agent Palmer
All right, all right. Well, so, when you’re not writing, when you’re not working, what are you doing.
00:29:18:27 – 00:29:34:45
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
When I’m not writing? When I’m not? Well, writing to me is fun. It’s it’s even though it’s it’s work and it’s what I do, it’s also feels like a hobby. And I guess that’s the best thing when you’re doing things that are creative and, you know, you get, like Steven Spielberg always said, I dream for a living, you know?
00:29:34:56 – 00:30:02:46
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, it doesn’t feel like work. It feels like it feels like enjoyment, you know, fun. But as far as leisure time is concerned, well, we, my daughter, who’s 21, we, we bought her a horse and, that was the thing. She started college. That was a deal. We said, okay, well, I never my wildest dreams thought I own a horse, but, so we have the horse, and we go down to the barn and, you know, a few times a week and and some, you know, it’s good, you know, family, leisure time to relax.
00:30:02:50 – 00:30:23:17
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I, I dabble on guitar. I don’t do anything serious with it. I just, you know. Yeah. Mess around with music or, you know, go back and forth. But these days, a lot of my spare time is spent coming up with ideas, right? If when I’m not writing, I’m coming up with ideas for other stories. And that whole creative outlet is something I feel like I always need to be doing.
00:30:23:26 – 00:30:50:42
Agent Palmer
Well, then, it begs this question because I feel like as a creative, we’re all in this same boat where it’s like, if, if, if you don’t leave us to be writing or actually creating the thing, leave us alone for a half hour, we’ll come up with 30 new ideas. Right? And I, I want to ask, what’s it because I, I think I overwhelm myself.
00:30:50:42 – 00:31:11:26
Agent Palmer
I don’t know if I’m, you know, an island or if I’m just like everyone else, but, like, I, I, I take some time and I step back and I go, well, I can’t do all of these things. Why do I keep thinking up these days? And, you know, also, I’m I guess I’m an idea hoarder, like, I, I might revisit this, so I’ll write it down.
00:31:11:26 – 00:31:12:33
Agent Palmer
I don’t want to lose. It’s a great.
00:31:12:33 – 00:31:14:57
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Term and I order it like that. But but.
00:31:14:57 – 00:31:26:54
Agent Palmer
You can’t. We you know, you sit down 20 minutes later, you got three ideas. You know, you can’t chase all three, right? Like, what’s how do you do, you know, is.
00:31:26:54 – 00:31:43:32
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
That that’s that’s always your challenge. Like, I know I’m going to want to do a sequel to the mirror, man. I know I want to do a sequel to the Kronos interfere. And I talked about doing some more of the space opera, the young adult space opera books. By the time we get to. I also outline the book.
00:31:43:32 – 00:32:02:35
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
The whole book is outlined, called Dragon Island. It’s sort of a Jurassic Park type story about a, a what appears to be a dragon in modern times, attacks at Puerto Rican island. And, so I, you know, again, we’re moving, you know, a little bit of a different genre, but it’s still in the realm of adventure. Yeah.
00:32:02:40 – 00:32:25:37
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So and I had a few, you know, a number of other stories I want to get to, plus, I’m doing some writing with, with some, Marvel artists or artists that have worked, pretty heavily with Marvel and DC guy Dorian Senior. I’m doing, writing with him on, graphic novels. I wrote the, three issues from his, core graphic novel line.
00:32:25:48 – 00:33:01:26
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
He had done a lot of work on ROM and, you know, other series and I’m working with Larry Hammer on, on some things, related to that. And he, he had pretty much created G.I. Joe and that whole universe and, Wolverine and all that stuff. So it’s been a learning experience and, especially working with somebody like Larry who has such vast experience, you know, sometimes I’ll have all these like, you know, out, you know, crazy ideas and, big and broad, and Larry’s like, just keep it simple and, you know, then, you know, again, he’s worked with, you know, with everybody, it seems.
00:33:01:40 – 00:33:23:05
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So it’s it’s it’s fun being able to work and collaborate with, with such, you know, illustrious, area, you know, writers and, and artists and, so there’s always something creative going on, and we’ve actually outlined a number of, of screenplays for TV series that are being pitched. So we’ll see what happens with that too.
00:33:23:10 – 00:33:33:05
Agent Palmer
Is that the next I mean, ignoring the fact that I’m just going to blow by the fact that you have you just mentioned like 50 billion projects right there and.
00:33:33:10 – 00:33:33:39
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Ideas.
00:33:33:39 – 00:33:42:17
Agent Palmer
And stuff is, is that a is that a, goal or just a, something you want to do to move into another medium?
00:33:42:22 – 00:34:07:38
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Well, I think it’s all number one. It’s, it’s it’s fine. It’s another medium. It’s it’s expanding my horizons in terms of writing. But I think at its root, I’ve always been fascinated with cinema. So any, any opportunity to create, stories for a visual medium. And, now that I’ve done that in the graphic novel world, which, again, is a visual medium, it’s very different than all the telling that goes on.
00:34:07:38 – 00:34:11:19
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah. In, in, in the written novels.
00:34:11:21 – 00:34:22:23
Agent Palmer
Is that, is that a, brain adjustment now that you, when you go to graphics and, and all of a sudden there’s, there’s a show element that you didn’t have before.
00:34:22:28 – 00:34:50:28
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, yeah, I think less is more. And in terms of that and sometimes the best words are no words. And you know, let let the pictures tell the story. And you see, I always have to remind yourself it’s a visual medium. And it was a big adjustment going from nonfiction to fiction. And I would say it’s an equally big adjustment going from writing fiction to writing for visual media, whether it’s graphic novels and it’s, you know, close cousin, cinema or screenplays.
00:34:50:33 – 00:35:12:47
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And so I’ve written a few screenplays for, short, you know, TV shows. And, and we had outlined, an entire series. So we’ll see what comes of that. I figure it’s, you know, through osmosis, you end up working and collaborating. It’s enjoyable. And who knows what it can lead to. It may lead to nothing, or it may lead to some great opportunities.
00:35:12:47 – 00:35:14:21
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So we’ll see what happens with it.
00:35:14:26 – 00:35:20:22
Agent Palmer
I mean, it just means that the blurb on the back of all of your books just continues to get longer.
00:35:20:26 – 00:35:20:57
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Right?
00:35:21:02 – 00:35:21:31
Agent Palmer
You know.
00:35:21:31 – 00:35:25:11
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
That’s I try to just condense it and.
00:35:25:15 – 00:35:40:29
Agent Palmer
Now when you sit down to write, are you, you know, typewriter, pen and paper, computer, tablet. Like what’s the what’s the nitty gritty of like, I’ve got to write this. What’s going.
00:35:40:29 – 00:36:07:15
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
On? I don’t have a typewriter, but, yeah. So I would say, sometimes, usually I’ll outline something in word when I’m just formulating ideas. Sometimes I’ll sit there with a, you know, a notebook and a pen and just jot down some basic ideas that come to mind. Usually in my phone. I’m a big fan of Evernote, so I have the Evernote app on my phone, and I must have like thousands of entries in there, and usually I’ll I’ll throw my ideas into there.
00:36:07:20 – 00:36:31:19
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And, that’s what a lot of times I’ll do my outlining or brainstorming and, I have, weekly calls, again with Guy Dorian Senior and Guy. His son, Guy Dorian Jr is also a writer. And, sometimes Larry Hammer would join it. So it’s like a writer’s room, and we’ll again come up with a whole list of ideas and which one, you know, filter out which ones to pursue.
00:36:31:24 – 00:36:49:10
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Some of that came also from training I did with the Disney Institute, where they talked about how creativity is organized. And the first step is to come up with the most ideas unfiltered. And then the next step is to come up with the best ideas and then step three was to come up with a plan to implement the ideas that you chose.
00:36:49:10 – 00:36:53:55
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So, I think that that holds true, that that whole three step approach.
00:36:54:00 – 00:37:07:24
Agent Palmer
How often do you revisit the, the the old Evernote. Right. Like the things that you wrote maybe two years ago that you just didn’t do, like do you revisit that stuff or are you always looking forward?
00:37:07:38 – 00:37:22:34
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I do actually, I kind of, you don’t really need to do much tagging because the search is so good in that, so but a lot of times I’ll just throw in keywords into the article. So when I’m searching for it, like if I come up with something, I’ll usually have have a I’ll put story ideas in there.
00:37:22:34 – 00:37:41:11
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So when I search story ideas off a whole list of, of things that, that come up and so there’s, there’s quite a few things. One of the ideas for the book, it’s funny, one of the ideas for, for a book that I was thinking of, I knew I wasn’t going to get to. It’s going to be forever by the time I got to it.
00:37:41:16 – 00:37:50:35
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I like the concept for it, but the, executing it would have been a different story. So I actually included that in the mirror, man, as the book that the lead character was writing.
00:37:50:40 – 00:37:53:08
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:37:53:13 – 00:37:57:54
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So I volunteered one of my book ideas for for that.
00:37:57:59 – 00:38:28:21
Agent Palmer
I like it. I, I think that that I appreciate that you even look back and I, I have, currently I have a living document that’s just called first drafting. And it’s, it’s where I do all of my drafting, but it’s also where I throw my ideas and I, I, I say this with the utmost respect to the people that are completionists.
00:38:28:26 – 00:38:49:32
Agent Palmer
In a perfect world, that document will never be under 50 pages. Right now, it’s at like 95. And once I get some stuff edited and published, it’ll come down again, and then I’ll have more ideas. But I treat it as a living document because I just believe it will. I’ll I’ll never there will never come a day when I open up that document.
00:38:49:32 – 00:38:59:04
Agent Palmer
And everything that I had been working on has now been published. It just seems so unlikely. But I know that. Yeah.
00:38:59:09 – 00:39:13:34
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
But one of the things I try to do is, I mean, a lot of things, I go back to all the old ideas and I think, well, if it was that good, I would have stuck with it or would have. Yeah. So sometimes they’ll be the root of ideas. Sometimes I’ll take some things from it and put it into something new.
00:39:13:38 – 00:39:38:02
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Okay. Let’s sort like Frankenstein’s monster, but most of the time I go back and I look and I thought, well, there’s a reason why that’s on the scrapheap. Every once in a while, I’ll go back and I’ll say, yeah, no, it wasn’t a bad idea. I probably should have fleshed that out. But, the one of the things I did with this book, for instance, is I started with the characters instead of starting with, premise.
00:39:38:07 – 00:40:12:40
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I started with the characters and thought about, okay, what do I want this character to be? And I like the idea of a, a reclusive, not a reclusive, not like the stereotypical reclusive writer, but somebody who’s 35 years old, lives with his mother, watches old Alfred Hitchcock movies. It was a way for me to include a lot of the Hitchcock motifs and keep that as a running theme, and I thought, okay, well, the guy has this affliction where if he touch it, he doesn’t know how he got the affliction, he doesn’t know where he got it for as long as he’s remember, if he touches somebody, he experiences their most strong, biggest memories, doesn’t
00:40:12:40 – 00:40:43:31
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
just see them, but experiences them and feels every emotion and physical feeling. And so he spends his time avoiding people. You know, he wears gloves. If he goes out shopping. And so because of that, his only social life is online. So he plays these online virtual video games and things like that. So I thought, okay, now what if a guy like this has to come out of his shell and maybe he sees something that’s really gets to him and he has to come out of his shell to it because he’s so moved that he has to help and feels it can make a difference.
00:40:43:36 – 00:41:04:32
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And now he’s out there. Okay, well, what happens to him now that he’s out there? And and that’s when the rest of the story started taking effect. So I started asking a bunch of what if questions about the character. Whereas in the past, a lot of times I would try to come up with all these premises and but either way, I don’t really begin a story until I have a logline that holds water.
00:41:04:36 – 00:41:22:50
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
If I can come up with a one sentence logline and it holds water, I’ll think, okay, well, there’s something now I can build from here, but if I can’t describe it in one sentence, then I figure, okay, the story is too complex or it’s not really going to, you know, if you can’t describe it in one sense and say, what’s this about?
00:41:22:50 – 00:41:31:12
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Because that’s the first thing everybody asks is, what’s your book about? And you don’t want to get into, well, this happens and that happens and this happens and it their eyes start closing.
00:41:31:17 – 00:41:59:52
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, you you have a, a modern approach. You not you, but you, have a modern approach to the elevator pitch. The mirror man has a a video trailer. And and when you sent it to me, I was blown away. Because I’ve read it, so I, I, you know, I know everything, but yet I’m watching this trailer going like, well, maybe I should read it again.
00:41:59:52 – 00:42:10:15
Agent Palmer
Like, what? That’s new. Right? Like that. Because this I think your book trailer might be the first book trailer I’ve ever seen.
00:42:10:20 – 00:42:30:14
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, I’ve, I’ve started to see a few of them, and I was reading some articles and was saying, well, it’s not a bad idea to do a book trailer. And since I think so cinematically, to begin with, if I wouldn’t it be nice to have a trailer that feels like a a trailer to a movie? And, so I work with a with an organization called film 14, and they specialize in cinematic trailers.
00:42:30:19 – 00:43:00:04
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And, you know, so, you know, spoke to about what I wanted to do and they didn’t actually do these kind of short trailers. They did full scripted trailers where they hire actors and things like that. But you read the outline of the book and, enjoyed it and said, you know, we make an exception. And now I think they’re going to start offering those kind of those kind of shorter trailers, but, I just wanted something that was sort of a teaser that was a little bit different and might stand out from your typical book announcement.
00:43:00:09 – 00:43:14:17
Agent Palmer
And, and I, I’m not I like, I, I kind of rely on relationships to find out when a new book is coming out, but I. Yeah, is the typical book announcement, just like a small press release kind of a deal? Is that, well.
00:43:14:21 – 00:43:35:03
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
It’s a press release. It’s social media. For instance, A.G. riddle, who’s written the Atlanta Scene and a number of other books and, the I first heard about him when I saw the Facebook ads for For the Atlanta Story. And I said, well, that sounds like an interesting story. And I didn’t know from, you know, but you know him as an author.
00:43:35:03 – 00:43:50:53
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I didn’t know from the book. I saw the Facebook ad and it, and you know what? I didn’t do anything about it. And then after about the fourth or fifth time I saw the Facebook ad, I thought, I got to get this damn thing I keep looking at. It looks interesting. So I clicked on it. I bought the book and I liked it.
00:43:50:55 – 00:44:16:08
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I thought, well, that’s how most people discover new authors. Unless you’re already a big follower of an author of, you’re a follower of of Dean Koontz or Stephen King, then you’re going to, you know, you know, hear about it when the new book comes out and then you’re going to get it. But if you’re an author and it’s written a few books, or if it’s a fairly new author in general, the only way you’re going to hear about it is through advertising.
00:44:16:12 – 00:44:31:13
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Articles, blogs, you know, then hopefully you’ll come across it and, so you know, that and the premise, if the premise is enough to make somebody, you know, say immediately, oh, that sounds like my kind of book, then, then and that helps.
00:44:31:18 – 00:44:59:35
Agent Palmer
I, I, I almost, I almost don’t want to ask this, but I have to, you’re an author and a storyteller. We’ve established that I have friends that do not read, and I. I don’t understand them, but, I do know that there is, for everybody that, like me, really enjoys the written word. There’s people that could leave it completely.
00:44:59:40 – 00:45:15:15
Agent Palmer
How do you combat that? As, like as an author, do you just go, well, I’m just going to double down on the people that do want to read. Or is there any kind of thought process to like, well, if my book is good enough, maybe I can convert them or is that not part of it?
00:45:15:20 – 00:45:43:32
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Well, I think it’s a little of both. I think that, as any marketer would do, you want to be able to appeal to people that are, you know, going to be in your niche, which means if people like Hitchcock, but Hitchcock is a film director, so if people like Hitchcock and they like reading, then that of course that’s going to be the ideal audience because it is very much, you know, Hitchcockian motifs in this or a touch of bond or, you know, it was, as somebody would refer to it as Hitchcock meets bond.
00:45:43:32 – 00:46:15:51
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And I thought, okay, that’s a pretty good description of it. But so but the thing is, I think there’s always going to be people, that are not readers, but if the story appeals to them, that’s another reason I wanted to do a book trailer also. And I handpicked the music for it because I wanted something that was Bernard Herrmann esque, that felt Hitchcockian because I thought, okay, if I could appeal to some Hitchcock fans through a book trailer, where they see that visual aspect, they hear the music, and I think I wouldn’t mind reading this even if they’re not much of a reader.
00:46:15:56 – 00:46:40:05
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So I think there’s ways to appeal to people. Just like many, many kids went out and bought Harry Potter and they didn’t read anything before that. Okay. And, you know, so so I think that if you have a story that’s appealing and I always try to think cinematically when I’m writing anyway, I know the difference between writing fiction and writing screenplays, and there’s a lot more detail behind what the characters are thinking in a book.
00:46:40:05 – 00:46:51:02
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
But I still like to keep the scenes cinematic, and I think cinematically in terms of from a storytelling perspective. So hopefully that’ll appeal to people that maybe aren’t avid readers.
00:46:51:07 – 00:47:06:54
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I there was a time when I was like, I, I will find the book that will turn you into a reader. I’m not that person any more just because that’s a lot of work to find that, I mean.
00:47:06:58 – 00:47:14:15
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Some people are just never read. They just would rather watch the movie or. I know a few people say, well, let me know if it comes out on audiobook and I’m actually working on it. They’ll say.
00:47:14:17 – 00:47:20:37
Agent Palmer
Okay. And is that have you done audiobooks for the other works? Yeah.
00:47:20:42 – 00:47:30:42
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, for the Kronos interference that’s out on audiobook. I didn’t do it for Atticus, but, for the Kronos interference and, Yeah, that worked out well.
00:47:30:47 – 00:47:55:28
Agent Palmer
Oh, okay. So you’re an author, and when you, are writing or reading it back in draft form, you’re you’re your own narrator, right? Yeah. Like so what’s it like when you listen to an audiobook? And for the first time, your words are coming back to you in your voice?
00:47:55:33 – 00:48:16:09
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
It’s a little strange, but I, you know, I did an audiobook for one of my nonfiction books, and I went into the studio for, I forget, a few days or a week. I went into the recording studio and read it and did the narration myself, and and that worked out well, with fiction and especially with my schedule right now, I don’t have time to sit there going in the studio for days on end.
00:48:16:14 – 00:48:41:40
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And they have such good narrators now. They are voice actors. They can do different characters. In the Kronos interference, one of the characters was was based on Morgan Freeman, and the narrator actually sounded like more dreaming when he was reading that character, which is kind of funny. But, you know, in this one, it’s a matter of auditioning, voice actors and some of them get it, some of them understand what you’re trying to do with the scene, and then some of them.
00:48:41:44 – 00:49:00:41
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And you can’t blame them. Some of them will read it cold and they don’t quite get up, get the feeling of of what’s in the scene. But, but most of them I think, were to get it. But it is, it is weird hearing all the, you know, like different versions of what’s in your head, because when I write, I cast all my characters or I can’t write them.
00:49:00:41 – 00:49:20:46
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I for me to write the dialog of a character, I have to envision them or feel, you know, see what they feel like. So, you know, so with each of my characters, I have somebody in mind that I’m, you know, when I’m writing or dialog that I’m thinking of, I try to convey that to the narrators to say, this is a feel I’m going for.
00:49:20:51 – 00:49:26:42
Agent Palmer
Okay. Well, I mean, that’s got to be used. That’s got to be like the most useful notes for them.
00:49:26:47 – 00:49:40:17
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
It is. I’ve gotten comments to say it’s been extremely helpful for them. I’m not used to getting that many notes. I even sent some video clips of actors from films. And I say this, see this vibe? This is a vibe that, you know, the character should have in this scene.
00:49:40:22 – 00:49:53:06
Agent Palmer
Now, is that advice you give to other authors like you casting your characters, even if it’s just based off of real characters? It, it kind of helps you because you don’t have to reinvent the wheel necessarily.
00:49:53:13 – 00:50:10:59
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I do, I always, in fact, when when we do the, Comic-Con events, you know, one of the things is writing compelling sci fi and fantasy, and it really applies to any genre. But one of the, the tips that I give is, is to cast your characters to, you know, when you’re writing, thinking about in your head.
00:50:10:59 – 00:50:24:20
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And another tip is to read your, your, story out loud, you know, as you do each chapter, because it’s a whole different feel reading it out loud with dialog. Some things look good in writing, and then you say it and you’re tripping over your words trying to say it.
00:50:24:25 – 00:50:45:15
Agent Palmer
I mean, I do that for my blog posts and I know it’s not remote. The same kind of, you know, genre, but like, if I can’t read it, yeah. How can I expect somebody to? Well, if I can’t read it out loud, how can I expect somebody else to read it? And they’re not me. Like, I know the I know what I’m going for.
00:50:45:15 – 00:51:04:59
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Exactly. Yeah, I remember I read it is a famous document and you can find it online, you can Google it, but there is a document. It’s an actual trans script of a like a three day event that Steven Spielberg, Lawrence Kasdan, the screenwriter and, George Lucas were together bouncing around the idea for, Raiders of the Lost Ark.
00:51:05:03 – 00:51:30:04
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And they had some really, you know, harebrained ideas that never made it. And and some were really good ideas. But it’s really funny hearing the dialog. And then they were showing the script, and you can see Harrison Ford crossed out half the lions. He goes, nobody talks like this. So he would take like something that was like a long dialog and he would say, yeah, you know, like he would change the dialog like one line or something.
00:51:30:08 – 00:51:31:10
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
So,
00:51:31:15 – 00:51:44:23
Agent Palmer
When when you’re doing the, the, the convention circuit, is there one question that you tend to get more than any other, either as an author or, just as a speaker?
00:51:44:28 – 00:52:00:41
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Well, you know, we see a lot of the same, you know, similar questions. Why don’t we get asked a lot usually is where do you get your ideas from? You know, is we, it’s that we see a lot is, you know, where do you get your ideas for stories? And, you know, that’s one thing.
00:52:00:41 – 00:52:18:43
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And that’s where it usually I’ll get into the idea of a logline. I’ll get into elements of what should be in it, like your lead character, you need your your lead character has to have a goal. What is it trying to achieve? What’s what are the stakes? So what happens if they don’t achieve it? If there’s no stakes, then who cares?
00:52:18:58 – 00:52:38:54
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And if it’s personal, all the better. And then what’s standing in the way? Whether it’s the person, you know, the antagonist, or it’s man against nature or whatever, but something has to be standing in the way of them achieving that goal. Then you start to have a story. And so I like to use as an example, like I’ll say, somebody will say, I want to write a book, aliens are coming to invade Earth.
00:52:38:54 – 00:52:59:02
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And you say, okay, that’s been done a thousand times. Well, yeah, but these are big, hairy, fuzzy aliens. Or like, okay, well, that’s. But, you know, if you say, the US is, made a dirty deal with, with aliens to, you know, fight the war on terror and, and, but you know, this, they didn’t realize what the stakes were.
00:52:59:02 – 00:53:20:19
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Now all of a sudden, you’re starting to have a story, but you still don’t have a story because you’re only characters. You just have a premise. Yes, but. And if you have a story about, you know, a young female journalist has to, enlist her mobster ex-boyfriend to fight the, you know, the the alien conspiracy or something like, you know, anyway, you start to have a character and you can have some irony in there.
00:53:20:19 – 00:53:50:20
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
She has to, you know, work with her mobster ex-boyfriend in order to get the result something. Now you’re starting to have a story because it’s a character somebody might care about. And so I always, you know, like to start there of, okay, come up with your premise, but then say, okay, who’s the character, what makes them different, and where can the irony come from that, that they have to like, you know, when you think Indiana Jones, for instance, he had a, you know, get together with his ex-girlfriend who he dumped in order to get what he wanted or draws.
00:53:50:20 – 00:54:08:09
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I always point to that. Roy Scheider played the Chief Brody, and he wasn’t just a sheriff. He was a water phobic sheriff. Had to go out there in the open seas. So there’s always that touch of irony. I think it really, you know, strengthens a story.
00:54:08:14 – 00:54:12:39
Agent Palmer
You.
00:54:12:44 – 00:54:34:01
Agent Palmer
I think for those interested, if you want to write a book, any kind of book, it’s all there in this conversation. Make sure you can explain it in one sentence. Outlines will help casting your characters mentally or even writing it down will help and think up and collect ideas. Now you still have to do the legwork, but the foundation is there.
00:54:34:06 – 00:54:51:53
Agent Palmer
And for those who have done it, like Jerry, as you’ve heard, I turned a corner as a fan and I would suggest you do the same. Jerry is a person. He is a creative storyteller and I have enjoyed the works of fiction I have read that he has created, but I do not want to add any more pressure.
00:54:51:58 – 00:55:15:24
Agent Palmer
I want to tell him that I enjoy what he has done without pressing for more as a creator. Even as a blogger and podcaster, I understand how hard creating is. I am also a producer and editor of other people’s projects and creations, and I can tell you being a creator is no easy task. It’s not just as simple as anyone or everyone makes it seem.
00:55:15:29 – 00:55:36:39
Agent Palmer
If it ever seems simple, as the case may be for people that do these things for a living or as a consistent hobby like Jerry with books or myself with this blog, in this podcast know that it has become easier with experience, but that does not mean it is easy. This is why I have laid off even asking creators for more.
00:55:36:44 – 00:55:58:23
Agent Palmer
This isn’t even the demanding that we see some creators get. I feel like sometimes the ask is a lot, even if it’s well intentioned. The reason is because I’ve seen firsthand what a passion project can take out of a creator. And you don’t know what that creator went through to create that thing you love. Perhaps it wasn’t easy, but excruciating.
00:55:58:28 – 00:56:20:35
Agent Palmer
I’d like to give them time to tell them it’s good without demanding or even asking for more. It just seems fair. The creators I consume from today’s guest Jerry to Creighton to Dayton to Copeland to authors, get on read. They may have created the book I read or movie or TV show, as the case may be for you as part of their livelihood or for their passion.
00:56:20:35 – 00:56:41:41
Agent Palmer
But I don’t take it for granted that it took more than just getting up in the morning to create the thing. So I’ll be happy with what I have, and I urge you to do the same. That doesn’t mean you can’t tell those people that you respect, admire, enjoyed, or any other superlative you can think of about their work and the effect it had on you.
00:56:41:48 – 00:57:06:45
Agent Palmer
I just ask that you refrain from immediately asking for more, even if it appears a sequel could be in the offing. So what have you consumed? Read, watched, listened to that you appreciated the creation of? For me, Jerry’s Mirror Man is only one of the latest that I have enjoyed. Let me know what yours are and if you check out the Mirror Man or the Kronos interference, that’s Chronos with a K.
00:57:06:49 – 00:57:28:51
Agent Palmer
Let me know what you think of those two. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 79. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can tweet me at Agent Palmer, my guest, Jerry JB Manas at JB underscore madness.
00:57:28:51 – 00:57:53:06
Agent Palmer
That’s Magnus or at Jerry Manas. The JB is for his fiction work, and the Jerry is for his nonfiction work. Again, you can find more information about Jerry at Jerry Manas.com for his nonfiction work or at JB Manas.com. Again, that’s Magnus for his fiction work. Email can be sent to this show at the Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember, you’re home for all things.
00:57:53:06 – 00:58:00:25
Agent Palmer
Agent Palmer is Agent palmer.com.
00:58:00:30 – 00:58:07:35
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00:58:07:40 – 00:58:14:34
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00:58:14:39 – 00:58:21:28
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00:58:21:32 – 00:58:31:57
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00:58:32:02 – 00:58:36:27
Unknown
Me.
00:58:36:32 – 00:58:43:13
Agent Palmer
She’s all right. Jerry, do you have one final question for me? Yeah.
00:58:43:13 – 00:58:53:57
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I guess one thing comes to mind is. Is what inspires you, to do the Agent Palmer blog, like, what do you find most inspiring about it?
00:58:54:02 – 00:59:33:46
Agent Palmer
I, I think, I think originally it was an exercise, and I’ve answered that before. Like, it was just I needed to write, and I and that’s how it started. Now. If this is going to sound weird, it’s a way of life. Like, I can’t imagine not creating. And, you know, this podcast is really wonderful and I enjoy another medium and another, you know, you and I did a very long back and forth via email that I put into an interrogation that fit into the spy theme of the blog.
00:59:33:46 – 00:59:59:42
Agent Palmer
That was just a Q and A, right. But but it’s not the same, right? Like you, you know, I had some follow ups for you, and I, I think it came together very well. But it’s not this. And so this is fun, but the blog, I just I don’t feel right if I’m not trying to write something or create something and it’s adapted, right.
00:59:59:42 – 01:00:22:52
Agent Palmer
Like I used to try and review everything and list, make lists and write about everything. Now, that was also at a time when I was hitting publish all the time, like I was doing two a week or three a week when I dialed it back to, okay, I’m just going to do one a week, I started being a little more selective.
01:00:22:52 – 01:01:01:58
Agent Palmer
So it’s the special I as a writer, you can appreciate this. It’s the it’s the it’s the sitting down and I get into the flow and now all of a sudden, like, like ten minutes later, I have a thousand words. And clearly there’s something here that I can share with everyone else. Yeah, but I just I think right now it’s the sheer act of creation that keeps the blog going and keeps me invested and interested in it, and it I, I selfishly, I can’t and well, honestly and selfishly, I can’t tell you it’s because I want to share your book with the world or this movie with the world.
01:01:02:04 – 01:01:04:10
Agent Palmer
It’s because I want to create that.
01:01:04:15 – 01:01:19:46
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah. And is it possible that I that with with me it is to, that it’s not just creation but also about connection, about connecting with people, with an audience, with, with other creators?
01:01:19:51 – 01:01:51:51
Agent Palmer
I think that’s a part of it. One of the things that I’ve found as the blog has evolved and my writing has evolved is it has I’ve I’ve found myself more connected with the work, the whatever that the book, the movie, the novel, the song, the whatever it is. Yeah. Part of that is the way I’ve, the processes I’ve created and that we create for ourselves over doing this stuff for long enough.
01:01:51:56 – 01:02:07:58
Agent Palmer
You know, the, the book example is I read a book and I take notes as I go along. Right. And then I write up those notes because most of the time I don’t have a digital copy. So I have to type out the notes in case I want to use any of those as quotes in the review or what have you.
01:02:08:03 – 01:02:33:55
Agent Palmer
And that, that, that going back, one of the things I’ve found is going back and pulling those quotes. And also, look, I’m and I’ve said this before, I’ll say it forever, like I books are supposed to be read, but they’re also supposed to be clean. So like I pull out my phone page 75, second paragraph, whatever. And so when I go back, I’m actually paging through the book again.
01:02:33:55 – 01:02:54:26
Agent Palmer
I’m not looking for highlights, and that’s another experience. And it’s another touchstone to the story. Right. Because most people you watch a movie, and even if they’re a reviewer, maybe you watch it again. But for the most part, I watch a movie and then I watch it again and I go back and pull the quotes, same as I do with the book.
01:02:54:30 – 01:03:20:33
Agent Palmer
And yeah, so that that second touchstone of pausing it with closed captioning on or having the book open and literally typing the words that I read, you know, either last week or yesterday, it’s such a another experience. And then I, I get to experience the book slightly differently because it’s just my highlights. It’s not necessarily the things that happen in the book.
01:03:20:33 – 01:03:23:32
Agent Palmer
It could be a witty line that I really liked.
01:03:23:36 – 01:03:52:45
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, I can relate to that because I did an analysis of Jaws and Jurassic Park when I was working on this Dragon story idea, and I had created a spreadsheet with the story beats from both Jaws and Jurassic Park side by side. I realize they’re the same story. They’re different environments, different characters. They’re the same story. And and so I was, you know, trying to get each of the story beats because I took a lot of inspiration from that, but it made me really appreciate that much more.
01:03:52:50 – 01:04:04:03
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
What went into it and and how the story beats were assembled for maximum enjoyment and things like that. And steelworkers who said himself that jaws is basically a remake of duel.
01:04:04:08 – 01:04:35:54
Agent Palmer
So I, I think some of that stuff I, I enjoy, coming up with on my own. Like I don’t yeah, I like, look, I’m as big a fan of the, the DVD commentary as maybe the next geek in line or the next nerd in line. Right. It’s not for everybody. But I also think that some of that stuff, ruins the excitement of watching a movie ten years later and going, oh, oh my God, this is, this is that movie from whatever.
01:04:35:54 – 01:04:52:30
Agent Palmer
And and making those connections together as opposed to hearing the director say, this is what this is, and there’s a balance there because we all want to know more. But that moment of revelation when you put that together, like, you can’t touch that, that’s.
01:04:52:30 – 01:04:57:50
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, sometimes it’s like a magician revealing his secrets. It takes some of the magic out of it, a trick.
01:04:57:59 – 01:05:05:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I, I just to to quickly go back to your question, I can’t imagine stopping it.
01:05:05:41 – 01:05:06:29
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Great.
01:05:06:33 – 01:05:08:12
Agent Palmer
I guess I don’t know, that’s how.
01:05:08:12 – 01:05:09:04
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
I feel about writing.
01:05:09:17 – 01:05:27:10
Agent Palmer
Well, I, and I think that I think part of it is that kind of why I think that’s my writing like. And look, I’ve, I’ve gotten this question here on this show. I’ve gotten it in public, I’ve gotten it in private, I’ve gotten it with family and friends. Like, when are you going to write a book? It’s like, I, I’m, I like, I’ve got my process.
01:05:27:10 – 01:05:49:21
Agent Palmer
I’m good. Like, if the inspiration struck to create a novel or a book, I’ve already created a podcast and a blog. There’s nothing to stop me. And I have the skill set, but I. I just don’t have that spark, that inspiration to go chase a novel. Yeah, when I’ve got all this other stuff.
01:05:49:32 – 01:05:53:57
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
And for everybody, that one thing is different, that thing that sparks them. I think.
01:05:54:02 – 01:06:01:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I guess I can now answer, when are you going to write your book? When I find the spark, I guess that’s my.
01:06:01:51 – 01:06:23:59
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Yeah, right. You know, for a while I enjoyed some I did some editing too. And I edited a, the first couple books of a fantasy trilogy. The third one is still being worked on, and it was really, you know, the author did an excellent job coming up with this fantasy trilogy, and I enjoyed the editing process and the story consulting process so much that for a while I thought about it.
01:06:24:00 – 01:06:31:31
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Maybe I should just really focus on helping other people with their books and story consulting and stuff like that that I keep getting back to writing.
01:06:31:44 – 01:06:36:48
Agent Palmer
But, well, how long did that idea last before you’re like, oh, I’ve got another idea, I.
01:06:36:48 – 01:06:44:23
Jerry “J.B.” Manas
Want to exactly. That’s what happened is, you know, I finished the first book and I was halfway through the second and I thought, well, I have I have to get this idea out.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).