Episode 176 with Kat Collins, an artist who is here to enlighten us by talking about what it is like being an artist as a profession, the change from passion to profession, without losing the passion.
Plus being a writer, teacher, burn-out, balance, and much much more.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Kat Collins Studio on Instagram
Kat Collins Studio on Facebook
Other Links
Five-Point Play is a do-as-I-do bible on leadership
An Avid Reader’s Guide to a Methodical Book Purge
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:07 – 00:00:25:01
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer. Five point play is a do as I do bible on leadership from Coach K, an avid reader’s guide to a methodical book purge. And what have you done lately to combat your own or someone else’s loneliness? This is The Palmer Files episode 176 featuring Kat Collins, an artist who is here to enlighten us by talking about what it is like being an artist as a profession, the change from passion to profession without losing the passion.
00:00:25:03 – 00:00:32:19
Agent Palmer
Plus being a writer, teacher, burnout, balance and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:32:24 – 00:00:37:52
Kat Collins
I’ve always been a writer and I’ve always been an artist.
00:00:37:57 – 00:00:44:18
Kat Collins
When I paint, I find it as necessary as breathing for me.
00:00:44:23 – 00:00:51:18
Kat Collins
It’s always so much harder to talk about ourselves. At least I find for the majority of the people.
00:00:51:23 – 00:00:57:10
Kat Collins
Having community around you is massive.
00:00:57:15 – 00:01:05:10
Kat Collins
As artists, a lot of times we don’t share with people why we do what we do.
00:01:05:15 – 00:01:12:02
Kat Collins
I encourage people to put emotion in what they’re doing, even if it is representational.
00:01:12:07 – 00:01:37:39
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 176 episode is Kat Collins. Quote I paint what can’t be seen. Emotional weather, inner terrain, the quiet places that move between the surface, unquote. Kat’s got your attention more now than I could have. Kat is an artist, and of course, I start by asking about that art, and we’ll dig into that quote from Kat Collins studio.
00:01:37:39 – 00:01:56:40
Agent Palmer
Com as well. But Kat is an artist, a professional artist. How did this come to pass? What did Kat do before? What’s it like being a professional artist? What has been hard along the way? What’s balanced like? What’s it like to live off of your passion? All this, plus writing, learning from burnout and the logistics of a nine foot painting.
00:01:56:40 – 00:02:18:54
Agent Palmer
But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterward, you can find all really ways to contact Kat and myself. In the show notes, you can see Kat’s work and read Kat’s words at Kat Collins Studio and connect on socials such as Instagram Threads and Facebook, also all at Kat Collins studio. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent Palmer.
00:02:18:54 – 00:02:30:29
Agent Palmer
Com and of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:30:34 – 00:02:49:25
Agent Palmer
Kat, you are an artist. But and I use that in a broad term because you’ve done a probably a lot of things, some that we may even talk about. But I wanted to ask you, how would you define the art that you prefer to do that?
00:02:49:25 – 00:02:50:23
Kat Collins
I prefer to do.
00:02:50:25 – 00:02:55:35
Agent Palmer
Yes. Not not necessarily what you’re known for. It could be what you’re known for, but like what you prefer to do.
00:02:55:37 – 00:03:28:52
Kat Collins
It is what I’m known for. Okay, I’m. But I’m pushing the boundaries of of it now, so I what I do is abstract art. I was predominantly more landscape ish, feeling like you could tell there was a landscape to it, but now I’m pushing it further in that it’s very nonrepresentational. But I do what I call emotional weather, which is basically how you would describe your inner life, the same way you would describe weather outside or the atmosphere outside.
00:03:28:54 – 00:03:59:48
Kat Collins
Okay, so just like the sky can be stormy, heavy, bright, foggy, shifting, electric, you know any of those things your emotional state moves through you in changing conditions. So sometimes it’s predictable, sometimes it’s very sudden, sometimes it’s layered and contradictory, which has always been themes in my artwork. And so the emotional weather becomes the emotional climate. I’m living inside of an any given moment.
00:03:59:50 – 00:04:11:49
Kat Collins
Okay. And so it’s not a single feeling, but it’s a whole system of sensations, memories, tension, relief and energy. So when I paint, that’s what I’m painting.
00:04:11:52 – 00:04:12:25
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:04:12:32 – 00:04:21:56
Kat Collins
So it’s all these internal atmospheres coming out. And what I hope is that they translate and relate to a broader sense that other people have as well.
00:04:21:58 – 00:04:38:02
Agent Palmer
So you already said this has evolved from landscape. But yes, like if I go back to like, I don’t know, ten year old Kat, maybe I don’t know how far back we have to go. Like, are you are you painting then are you always artistic? Is it.
00:04:38:12 – 00:04:39:31
Kat Collins
Always artistic? Yes.
00:04:39:33 – 00:04:41:38
Agent Palmer
Okay. Not always paint.
00:04:41:45 – 00:04:47:30
Kat Collins
No, no. I started out as a graphite pencil draw. That was my first love.
00:04:47:35 – 00:04:50:49
Agent Palmer
Do you? Okay, but before you can. Do you still do it?
00:04:50:52 – 00:04:51:44
Kat Collins
Not as much. No.
00:04:51:47 – 00:04:52:10
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:04:52:13 – 00:05:02:25
Kat Collins
All right. I want to get back into it more, but I haven’t. It’s always important to still draw. Okay? That’s a basis of everything, but I don’t do it anywhere near as much as I do. Okay, so.
00:05:02:27 – 00:05:21:45
Agent Palmer
There’s a aside from the obvious of color, there’s a little bit of a difference from, you know, graphite pencil drawing to. Yes. So is it is it school that opens you like actual like learned like structure in a school? Is it just trying new things like how does this.
00:05:21:47 – 00:05:41:34
Kat Collins
I think it’s both. You know, anytime you take an art class, they push you to do something different and experiment with something different. So I did use color to it wasn’t like I was just black and white. Strict, okay. But in college I was doing black and white cities that were very abstract. So the abstract parts been there for a long time.
00:05:41:37 – 00:06:00:26
Kat Collins
Okay. And then one day I want my professor suggested, why don’t you try this in color? I was like, oh, okay, why not? So I did, and it kind of expanded from there. And then of course, I had to take painting classes and things like that, and I fell in love with painting, and that’s just kind of been my medium of choice since then.
00:06:00:28 – 00:06:16:06
Agent Palmer
Now, do you, do you dabble like, do you still? I know, I know, we ignoring the pencil for a moment. Like, do you try, I don’t know, watercolor or even just, like physical stuff like pottery or like, do you try other, you know, other things?
00:06:16:13 – 00:06:34:29
Kat Collins
Absolutely. I do. Can’t say I’m good at it, but I try pottery. I am not so good at most of my pottery gets made fun of, but it’s fun to experiment with. Okay, I love things that are hands on like that where you get your hands dirty. I’m not a painter who wears gloves or anything like that because I do mixed media.
00:06:34:29 – 00:06:58:03
Kat Collins
So in a sense I’m experimenting with other materials, using in with paint all the time. So watercolor is like the bane of my existence. So I have tried and tried with that, and I get so frustrated and mad at it that I don’t do it. But yeah, I’ve played, I’ve done stuff with oil pastels. I’ve done stuff with chalk pastels.
00:06:58:03 – 00:07:04:22
Kat Collins
I like clay, you know, it’s a little bit of everything, and that I love anything that allows you to just be creative.
00:07:04:27 – 00:07:13:38
Agent Palmer
Okay. And are we talking in addition? Obviously there’s obviously music and the written word. I mean there are other things.
00:07:13:41 – 00:07:14:45
Kat Collins
Oh yeah. Absolutely.
00:07:14:48 – 00:07:16:52
Agent Palmer
But both.
00:07:16:57 – 00:07:26:30
Kat Collins
Music I listen to. Okay, I’ve dabbled in playing the piano, but I’m not experienced enough to do that in front of anybody.
00:07:26:35 – 00:07:37:51
Kat Collins
I would say writing has always been a thing for me. I have published articles in the past and poetry writing stories. I’m actually in the process of writing a book. I’ve got about ten chapters in nice.
00:07:37:54 – 00:07:38:32
Agent Palmer
Congratulations.
00:07:38:32 – 00:07:41:03
Kat Collins
I kind of sizzled on that for a little bit.
00:07:41:05 – 00:08:12:47
Agent Palmer
Well, how do you. But it’s I mean, you’re bouncing back and forth because obviously this whole during those ten chapters, we’ll just say during those ten chapters, you’ve also created other pieces. I mean, I, I know not everybody is an artist and a lot of people it’s a hobby as opposed to a profession. But even for a hobbyist like myself, I have a lot of instruments in my house, but I tend to get in a rut and I call it that on purpose.
00:08:12:49 – 00:08:40:19
Agent Palmer
Like I just pick up the acoustic guitar and I ignore my bases. Like they might as well not exist. Or like I have an electric drum kit and sometimes that’s all I’ll play for like two months and then the guitar doesn’t exist and I find myself wanting to bounce between them to, like, not not necessarily as structured as I’m about to use as an example, but like Mondays for drums, Tuesdays for acoustic, Wednesdays I want to be able to bounce back and forth, I never can.
00:08:40:21 – 00:08:55:23
Agent Palmer
It feels like I’m always going week to week, month to month, season to season. How have you like what? Did you write ten chapters and go back to painting like? Were you able to bounce back and forth like.
00:08:55:31 – 00:09:10:55
Kat Collins
I bounce back and forth with. So I journal a lot. I write a lot about my artwork, and I actually find that feeds what I do. So it has a lot of symbiotic relationship for me. Okay.
00:09:11:00 – 00:09:24:04
Agent Palmer
They’re not separate. Like when I’m picking up the acoustic, it’s separate from when I’m playing the bass. But for you, it’s all one. Yes. Was it always that way?
00:09:24:09 – 00:09:50:05
Kat Collins
I don’t know if it’s always been that way, but I would definitely say for a very long time it’s been that way. And that’s probably because I was taught that way when I went to grad school to study art therapy. You know, you’re integrating different modalities and different ways of doing things. And one of the things one of my professors would teach me is journaling about your artwork.
00:09:50:05 – 00:10:10:35
Kat Collins
And it was a way we called it witnessing your work and a way to to find things and integrate what you were feeling in an artwork or what you were looking for, which is what we would do with a client. So it kind of became second nature to me to do it that way. But I find it’s a way of connecting.
00:10:10:37 – 00:10:17:46
Kat Collins
I’ve always been a writer and I’ve always been an artist. And so I mean artists in the sense I paint, but yeah.
00:10:17:49 – 00:10:45:04
Agent Palmer
But they’re together and that that I find that look, it’s not the same. But, you know, I started the blog one years ago an amount of time ago, and then a long time later the podcast came around. And while they can be connected, I have a hard time connecting them. Like, I’m trying, like I’m I actively go like, all right, what can we do to connect these two things?
00:10:45:04 – 00:11:13:48
Agent Palmer
So when I hear you, even though these are not the same, when I hear you saying that you’re writing and you’re painting, will be specific because it’s not to be confused with your poetry, which could probably also be something you write about. I love the idea of kind of connecting it because it when you say it, it seems like, of course, that like, why, why, why wouldn’t, why wouldn’t you connect the things you like together.
00:11:13:50 – 00:11:14:17
Kat Collins
Right?
00:11:14:29 – 00:11:19:52
Agent Palmer
And I’m like, oh man, I should really probably try.
00:11:19:57 – 00:11:40:29
Kat Collins
It takes some work, though, I will tell you that, you know, it wasn’t always that way. There was always disconnect somewhere. But it’s the same thing when I create a series of paintings that relate to each other. And when I start that, I get very confused because sometimes I’m like, I have no idea how these really. I see no thread, I see no pattern, and I have to go back and look for it.
00:11:40:32 – 00:11:46:36
Kat Collins
And so sometimes that’s how it works with the writing as well. Okay, in relation to the painting, now we have to go back.
00:11:46:39 – 00:11:56:14
Agent Palmer
When you start a series, do you set out to start a series or do you finish the first one and go like I, I have more, but not for this.
00:11:56:19 – 00:12:18:27
Kat Collins
It’s probably that it’s. Yeah, I find so I didn’t use to do series at all and I was always just create one painting and that’s it. Okay. And then create the next one. They were all standalone kind of works. And then I decided to delve into a series starting last two years ago. And I was like, all right, I’m going to do this whole series.
00:12:18:27 – 00:12:30:14
Kat Collins
I deliberately planned it out as far as what the theme would be and picked colors, that kind of thing. And once I did that, it’s kind of stuck with me. And now I’ve done like four of them.
00:12:30:14 – 00:12:37:28
Agent Palmer
So what was it that first time you’re like, I’m going to do a series now. Was it just I want to try or.
00:12:37:33 – 00:12:56:58
Kat Collins
Part of it was I want to try, okay. Because I get bored easily. So it’s like, is this going to sustain my attention enough to keep going with this? You know, it’s like I have to pick a topic that actually holds my interest. But it was also looking at the business side of things when coming to art galleries like continuity.
00:12:57:01 – 00:13:25:09
Kat Collins
They like series, they like things that go together. And if wanting to show a show like a solo show, I needed pieces that worked well together. So that was kind of behind it as well. Okay. And then it was as I kept working, I discovered it’s a way to get really deep into something and so I could learn more about it and relate more to it and keep pushing it until I felt like I could go no further.
00:13:25:11 – 00:13:39:30
Agent Palmer
And so when you do that, you, you, you also, I mean, I’m listening. I’m just like, well, you run the risk of going three pieces deep, eight pieces deep like there. I mean, potentially depending on how far you go, you could just keep going.
00:13:39:34 – 00:13:41:39
Kat Collins
The first series was 15 pieces.
00:13:41:41 – 00:13:45:27
Agent Palmer
Okay. How did you know it was done at 15?
00:13:45:29 – 00:13:47:12
Kat Collins
That’s as many sheets of paper as I could.
00:13:47:15 – 00:13:49:03
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:13:49:07 – 00:14:18:49
Kat Collins
Now when I pre-planned. Okay, I don’t always do that, but that particular series I planned, I’m going to do 15 paintings. Okay. And do it that way. The second series was only nine paintings, and that one was more. I just thought it was done okay, like it wasn’t any further that I could go with that. And then my submerge series that I just did this past summer that ended up being 18 paintings, and that was just I kept going until I didn’t want to do it anymore.
00:14:18:54 – 00:14:20:56
Agent Palmer
Okay. It was still fun up until.
00:14:20:58 – 00:14:28:36
Kat Collins
So yeah. And then eventually I hit one and I’m like, yeah, I’m done, okay, I don’t want to do anymore. So I want to explore something else.
00:14:28:39 – 00:14:37:31
Agent Palmer
So you and maybe this is the wrong question to ask, but you are an artist by trade but also by profession. This is how you make your money.
00:14:37:33 – 00:14:38:12
Kat Collins
It is now.
00:14:38:12 – 00:14:48:42
Agent Palmer
Yes. Okay, so you did this as a I don’t want I don’t like side hustle. But it was a second career for you for a while while you did something else to make money.
00:14:48:45 – 00:14:49:11
Kat Collins
Yes.
00:14:49:11 – 00:15:08:52
Agent Palmer
And what was that like? I mean, a lot of like. And I know because this start all of this is still not making money. I don’t. This is not why, you know, this is not why I do this. But I understand the hustle of what happens after that. We’ll just say 9 to 5, even though they’re not 95.
00:15:08:53 – 00:15:30:40
Agent Palmer
So how? I don’t know, because I look back at some of those times go because I’m, I’m, I’m a stay at home dad, part time worker now. So I have a little bit more energy in the evening for this then say like when I was working 9 to 5 and then come home. And where did you find the energy when it was the second?
00:15:30:42 – 00:15:33:11
Agent Palmer
The other thing.
00:15:33:16 – 00:15:56:36
Kat Collins
The energy was probably because I started working for myself. Okay. So seven years ago now, I started my own web design business, and I did that all from home. I was a solo entrepreneur, and I could just make my own schedule so I can get up what I want, go to bed what I want, and my studio was in my house, so I would work, and then I would go paint, and then I’d go back to work and then I’d paint, you know?
00:15:56:38 – 00:16:15:47
Kat Collins
So it was back and forth a lot. So that allowed me a lot of freedom at that point when I was working full time, it was a lot harder to do. It was more, I’ll take a half hour and then that’s about it, you know? So that’s obviously it was a lot slower in that respect.
00:16:15:47 – 00:16:16:20
Agent Palmer
But you.
00:16:16:20 – 00:16:18:01
Kat Collins
Kept going. Yes.
00:16:18:06 – 00:16:18:30
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:16:18:32 – 00:16:36:17
Kat Collins
For me. Yeah. For me. And I guess this is where some people differ. But when I paint, I find it as necessary as breathing for me. Okay. So I don’t do it just to make money or anything like that. It’s a passion of mine. So I paint because I feel I have to.
00:16:36:19 – 00:16:37:07
Agent Palmer
All right.
00:16:37:12 – 00:16:39:55
Kat Collins
And the bonus of that is I can make money from it.
00:16:39:57 – 00:17:07:46
Agent Palmer
Okay, so I, I, we don’t have to talk specific numbers, but I have to ask because I went to a small liberal arts college, and I went to school with a lot of artists, and a lot of them, to this day have trouble selling work. They don’t have trouble finding buyers, but they do have trouble making money because apparently, and I don’t maybe this is true for you or not.
00:17:07:51 – 00:17:30:25
Agent Palmer
They never had an art class that talked about how to set, like how to set a monetary value for a thing that you created, period. The end. And I could say the same thing is true for this podcast, right? Like if somebody was like, well, how much money for one be like, I’ve, I’ve no idea, right? Like if somebody wanted to buy an episode, for whatever reason, I wouldn’t know the first place to begin.
00:17:30:25 – 00:17:37:25
Agent Palmer
But you have a this is now your profession. I’m sure it was not easy.
00:17:37:30 – 00:17:38:30
Kat Collins
No.
00:17:38:34 – 00:17:42:56
Agent Palmer
Did anybody help you along the way, or was it just a lot of trial and error.
00:17:43:08 – 00:18:06:33
Kat Collins
A lot of trial and error? In the beginning, I would say probably in the past five years, since 2020. I’ve had some more actual mentors that have helped me a lot with that. Okay, more of the business side of things rather than actual helping with the artwork kind of side of things. Yeah. Mostly because the main mentor I do doesn’t do what I do.
00:18:06:33 – 00:18:27:19
Kat Collins
So she refuses to offer an opinion because she’s like, no, I love what you do, but I don’t, you know, I don’t know how to do that. But it was learning how to price things, learning when I needed to raise my prices, learning how to network and reach out to other people, and all of those fun things that you have to do to build a market for yourself.
00:18:27:24 – 00:18:33:05
Kat Collins
In that respect, it was taught to me just by being with other artists who are much further along than I am. Okay.
00:18:33:14 – 00:18:35:55
Agent Palmer
And how are you on the business side?
00:18:35:57 – 00:18:52:30
Kat Collins
Well, it depends on the day. I mean, actually it was I’ve actually had this conversation recently with another artist who’s looking to market himself more in his artwork. I’m better at it because I have had my own business for years, so I’ve learned.
00:18:52:40 – 00:18:59:01
Agent Palmer
Experience selling yourself in in a capacity maybe not this capacity, right?
00:18:59:03 – 00:19:14:12
Kat Collins
I will say doing the web design selling was much easier than what? Than trying to sell myself basically with artwork. Yeah, which is an interesting concept because I was in marketing and retail sales for decades. Not a problem.
00:19:14:24 – 00:19:14:41
Agent Palmer
Well.
00:19:14:41 – 00:19:15:29
Kat Collins
It’s always.
00:19:15:33 – 00:19:33:04
Agent Palmer
Easier to sell other things, right. Like that. Yeah. No, I’ve, I’ve been a consultant. I a long, long time ago, way back before the world of CMS. I was a like a notepad website builder. Remember those days?
00:19:33:16 – 00:19:34:59
Kat Collins
That’s a lot. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:35:03 – 00:19:56:27
Agent Palmer
And so I remember, you know, it’s like the worst kept secret in the world. Like, yeah, everybody’s websites better than yours. Like, yeah, you’re creating them for other people. But like and the same is true of marketing. Like, if you Kat came to me and was like, I would like some help doing some marketing, I’d like. Absolutely. But if you came to me as my friend and would like, you should do something for yourself.
00:19:56:29 – 00:19:59:38
Agent Palmer
I’d be like, I don’t really know what I should do.
00:19:59:43 – 00:20:05:16
Kat Collins
Yes. Yeah. It’s always so much harder to talk about ourselves. At least I find for the majority of the people.
00:20:05:18 – 00:20:06:28
Agent Palmer
Oh yeah. Yeah, that’s true.
00:20:06:30 – 00:20:25:51
Kat Collins
But yeah. Well, and I look at artwork in the sense that what I do is extremely vulnerable and putting myself out there. And now I’m supposed to talk about that and I’m like, well, that’s why I paint it, because I can’t talk about it. And so how am I supposed to sell this to you? You know, so it’s yeah, it’s definitely challenging.
00:20:25:53 – 00:20:32:00
Agent Palmer
Now, has the journaling about your work helped you talk about your work?
00:20:32:02 – 00:20:33:12
Kat Collins
It has. Yes.
00:20:33:14 – 00:20:33:41
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:20:33:43 – 00:20:51:44
Kat Collins
Mostly because it helps me clarify things. And I will tell you, ChatGPT is my friend in a lot of ways. I know there’s a lot of, you know, hate for AI, this kind of thing, but when I need to find clarity in how I talk because I can when I write, if I just write. It’s really a brain dump.
00:20:51:44 – 00:21:13:38
Kat Collins
It’s not coherent necessarily. And so I will put that in the chat GPT and say, please make this coherent, or at least organize it in a format that’s readable. Yeah. But then but regardless, it’s it helps me look at it from a different perspective. And then I can say, oh, well, yes, that is what I’m saying. This is what I mean.
00:21:13:53 – 00:21:28:08
Kat Collins
How do I explain this? This is how I’m connecting to it. But it’s still when you’re talking to somebody about your work, there’s a balance because they don’t want to hear every little thing about it all the time. Sometimes they want just broad strokes. And you have to learn that.
00:21:28:09 – 00:21:52:58
Agent Palmer
And and like I guess so the I have this picture of what a professional artist does, aside from everything you’ve already described. And part of it is I think this might be the glorified part of media, and I mean that with a capital M, like we’re talking movies and television, but there’s the there’s always the, the gallery opening or the exhibit opening.
00:21:53:00 – 00:22:16:11
Agent Palmer
Right. And having never. I think I’ve been to a few, but I didn’t I don’t know how or why, and I didn’t know the artist. So it’s not like I got to see you and but like when it’s your turn, when you’re at these events. Most artists I know are kind of introverts a bit, maybe a little bit.
00:22:16:18 – 00:22:23:53
Agent Palmer
So when you’re doing these kind of, you know, an exhibit opening, how do you do?
00:22:23:58 – 00:22:26:27
Kat Collins
I.
00:22:26:32 – 00:22:50:49
Kat Collins
Well I usually okay, okay. Because I know how to turn it on and off and be extra when I have to be. I gotcha and I can talk about it, I can socialize, I network with people. I may stumble on my words at times, but usually it works okay. And then I’m exhausted afterwards. And I don’t talk to anybody for like three days, you know?
00:22:50:52 – 00:23:01:53
Kat Collins
But but it is challenging. I find it harder when it’s a group show. So there’s multiple artists in a show versus it being a solo one. For myself.
00:23:01:56 – 00:23:17:19
Agent Palmer
Really, the shared spotlight doesn’t ease anything because that from over here. Right. Like that’s what it feels like. It’s like, oh well there’s, there’s like not everybody’s looking at art. Sure, but they’re not all looking at my art. So we have some shared I don’t.
00:23:17:19 – 00:23:28:09
Kat Collins
Know, that’s a weird. Yeah. It’s a weird conundrum. So in a group setting I will pull back, okay. And actually not talk because I can hide in the group.
00:23:28:13 – 00:23:29:40
Agent Palmer
You know. All right, all right.
00:23:29:54 – 00:23:32:11
Kat Collins
Whereas solo show, I have to be.
00:23:32:16 – 00:23:32:56
Agent Palmer
You have to be on.
00:23:32:56 – 00:23:35:13
Kat Collins
So I guess there’s a difference in that. But yeah.
00:23:35:15 – 00:23:40:27
Agent Palmer
And that’s I mean, this is the thing that movies don’t tell you. You have to work for that opening.
00:23:40:29 – 00:23:42:08
Kat Collins
Yes. Oh my God. Yes.
00:23:42:13 – 00:24:08:54
Agent Palmer
I’m not asking for specifics, but when you talk about selling yourself, I feel like selling yourself or selling a piece of a series. That’s one thing. Selling yourself to a gallery or a space to put up a lot of things. That’s a that’s another level, right? Yes. Can I ask, do you remember, like, what was it like the first time?
00:24:08:54 – 00:24:12:30
Agent Palmer
Because I’m sure it’s gotten easier, but the first one.
00:24:12:35 – 00:24:24:00
Kat Collins
Well, sort of easier. It depends on the level of the gallery I’m working towards. The higher end ones, it gets a little more challenging just because they’re a little bit different expectations and a little intimidation factor in some of that.
00:24:24:03 – 00:24:26:58
Agent Palmer
Okay. But they’re doing that on purpose I’m guessing.
00:24:27:00 – 00:24:31:38
Kat Collins
Because some degree. Yeah. But you know, some of that’s just in my own head. Well you know.
00:24:31:53 – 00:24:32:07
Agent Palmer
Well.
00:24:32:10 – 00:24:42:43
Kat Collins
That’s like it looks for this and I’m like, oh, do I really meet these levels of, you know, I don’t know what the word is, but the quality of the art that in the artwork that they carry.
00:24:42:47 – 00:24:48:49
Agent Palmer
Is it a small fear of success, like, I. Yeah, I’ll put in for this, but. Oh, God, if I get it. Oh, no.
00:24:48:52 – 00:24:57:08
Kat Collins
Well, not for your success. So much is fear of failure because then it’s it’s more about the idea of if I don’t make it in, it means I’m not good enough.
00:24:57:10 – 00:24:59:25
Agent Palmer
But is it so? No. Okay.
00:24:59:27 – 00:25:02:03
Kat Collins
But that’s what we tell our.
00:25:02:08 – 00:25:23:26
Agent Palmer
All right, all right. So if you need to paint to breathe and and it you understand the work that goes into selling it and making it a thing. What do you do for fun. Because, you know, maybe maybe when we go back those 20 years, this was your fun.
00:25:23:28 – 00:25:24:06
Kat Collins
It was.
00:25:24:09 – 00:25:27:01
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So do you have a do you have a new fun?
00:25:27:16 – 00:25:38:30
Kat Collins
Like I still enjoy it immediately. I still find it fun and challenging to do, but it has changed a little bit because I do it professionally. But I find.
00:25:38:42 – 00:25:41:03
Agent Palmer
You prepared for that change.
00:25:41:08 – 00:25:43:15
Kat Collins
Well, no. Okay.
00:25:43:22 – 00:25:44:05
Agent Palmer
All right.
00:25:44:08 – 00:25:57:07
Kat Collins
Well, it’s a fine line that you walk with that because you have to ask yourself, what is I’m creating? Am I creating this to sell or my creating it? Because this is what I feel the need to create.
00:25:57:09 – 00:25:57:48
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:25:57:52 – 00:26:16:42
Kat Collins
And there’s difference in that. So you’re creating to sell basically means, you know, you’re going to make something that, you know, somebody is going to buy, okay. But that doesn’t mean that’s what you’re wanting to do or that’s what’s coming from your heart or that’s what your emotion or whatever you’re wanting to express. And there’s a balance with that.
00:26:16:49 – 00:26:26:39
Kat Collins
You know, I find my small works like ten by ten sell really well. I it’s not my favorite thing to do.
00:26:26:43 – 00:26:47:11
Kat Collins
You know. And it’s the same with subject matter. I just talked to another artist about that who creates, you know, small prints because they sell really, really well. But she wants to get into bigger galleries and bigger things, and she’s going to have to step it up to do that. So now she has to balance how do I price bigger things?
00:26:47:11 – 00:27:09:55
Kat Collins
How do I price smaller things? How do I balance these. Go to retail and sell really cheap. And now I want to create something much more expensive and higher end. And so there’s this line we walk. So I, I find when it gets to be too much, I do something different, even if it’s still artistic, like I’ve taken to cutting up old paintings and then collaging them back together.
00:27:10:05 – 00:27:11:55
Kat Collins
So it’s like making putting a puzzle together.
00:27:11:58 – 00:27:13:53
Agent Palmer
Like your old paintings. Yeah.
00:27:13:55 – 00:27:14:14
Kat Collins
Okay.
00:27:14:21 – 00:27:38:37
Agent Palmer
Paintings. Okay, okay. Okay, okay. So I, I have to ask then how come, like, is that just easy for you to. Because I know even my crappy poetry from, like, high school. Like I would edit it, but I would be loathe to mess around with the original. Right? Or just something I, you know, and that just that’s just me, I don’t know, so you know.
00:27:38:39 – 00:27:43:58
Agent Palmer
Did you did you think twice before you started or is it like. Yeah.
00:27:44:03 – 00:27:48:10
Kat Collins
I thought twice about it because it’s your history. You created this. Who wants the best.
00:27:48:12 – 00:27:57:33
Agent Palmer
That maybe that’s what it is. Maybe it is. This is my history. But it is just my history. It’s not my future. It’s not my present. So. But you moved on. You got over that.
00:27:57:36 – 00:28:14:11
Kat Collins
I did, I did it was more or less, you know, what am I going to do with all this stuff anyway? It was piling up in my house, you know, it’s some of it I know is not stuff that’s going to sell. And it was more done as a study or something I made, just made to figure things out kind of thing.
00:28:14:13 – 00:28:17:10
Kat Collins
So it’s like, well, let’s do something else with it.
00:28:17:13 – 00:28:23:03
Agent Palmer
Now, when you talk about mixed media. Yes. How mixed are we talking?
00:28:23:15 – 00:28:40:57
Kat Collins
Mixed in the sense that I will use collage handmade paper with my stuff, India ink, pencils, stuff like that. So it’s not I haven’t gone super crazy with it like I could, but there’s more than just paint, okay?
00:28:40:59 – 00:28:54:32
Agent Palmer
And I want to go backwards for a second. What was your first like when you were a freshman in college? What was the what was the what was the I mean, did you change majors? Like what was the first major?
00:28:54:35 – 00:28:55:30
Kat Collins
Psychology.
00:28:55:35 – 00:28:55:59
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:28:56:01 – 00:28:57:18
Kat Collins
I did change majors.
00:28:57:20 – 00:28:58:25
Agent Palmer
Two two art.
00:28:58:27 – 00:29:01:25
Kat Collins
Yes. I was actually a psychology major with a minor in fine art.
00:29:01:27 – 00:29:01:53
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:29:01:56 – 00:29:14:41
Kat Collins
And when I was in the fine art classes, they convinced me to make it my major reason I became a yes. I became a major in fine art and a minor in psychology because the goal was always art therapy. Okay. And those were the two things you had to study to get there.
00:29:14:43 – 00:29:16:21
Agent Palmer
Okay. But that was always the goal.
00:29:16:24 – 00:29:19:16
Kat Collins
It was since 11th grade in high school.
00:29:19:24 – 00:29:31:13
Agent Palmer
What, like I first I mean, I know of art therapy now as a much older, but I think 20 year old me would have been like what? Like how does 11th grade you even know?
00:29:31:18 – 00:29:37:30
Kat Collins
Well, it was kind of a fluke, but we actually had an art therapist come in and talk.
00:29:37:34 – 00:29:38:15
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:29:38:20 – 00:29:54:43
Kat Collins
To give it to kind of one of those things, like a career day where you’re trying to figure out what we’re going to do in the future kind of thing. And I had always been a person who wanted to help people but also use art. And I thought, oh, this is perfect. And so that’s where I went with it.
00:29:54:48 – 00:29:56:33
Kat Collins
Do I do it now? No.
00:29:56:33 – 00:30:00:43
Agent Palmer
But you did it. No, no.
00:30:00:47 – 00:30:04:21
Kat Collins
Although I have never done art therapy professionally.
00:30:04:23 – 00:30:07:45
Agent Palmer
Do you do you still want to know? Okay.
00:30:07:47 – 00:30:12:40
Kat Collins
No, I know I went to grad school for it, but I dropped out my last year.
00:30:12:44 – 00:30:14:20
Agent Palmer
Any particular reason.
00:30:14:35 – 00:30:15:42
Kat Collins
I burned out?
00:30:15:44 – 00:30:16:25
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:30:16:27 – 00:30:20:56
Kat Collins
So I was going to school full time, interning full time and working full time.
00:30:21:01 – 00:30:25:24
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that’s a lot of full time. One of those at least has to be a part time I.
00:30:25:27 – 00:30:35:41
Kat Collins
Yeah, and it wasn’t I burned out, it got really bad. And I went into the window full time okay. And totally changed it.
00:30:35:45 – 00:30:45:16
Agent Palmer
And was it that’s what what was available or was that because obviously there are a lot of you mean you could kind of jump to any industry, I guess.
00:30:45:18 – 00:30:58:03
Kat Collins
Well, yeah, pretty much. I was working at a winery, okay. And just really, really enjoyed it. So I kind of dove in with both feet at first and dropped everything else. And that’s what I did for ten years.
00:30:58:06 – 00:31:15:14
Agent Palmer
That first of all, that’s a whole like I mean, that’s I mean, I mean, we talk I mean, I mean, five years is a good career in, in a place. So ten I mean, that’s so what did you decide to leave? Sort of. Okay.
00:31:15:19 – 00:31:30:18
Kat Collins
It’s not a situation I can talk about a whole lot. That’s fine. But but it was kind of a mutual decision. I did not want to leave. But the wine industry is fickle. You work really crappy hours and you work holidays. You work weekends because it’s retail as well.
00:31:30:20 – 00:31:36:25
Agent Palmer
Yeah. It’s retail. It’s also, I presume, all hands on deck for event stuff when event stuff happens.
00:31:36:27 – 00:31:42:22
Kat Collins
Absolutely. You know, I have no home life. I basically live there kind of thing. And I got tired of that.
00:31:42:25 – 00:32:05:35
Agent Palmer
Now, how much of that and the burnout prior of the three full times has influenced, I guess, your current work life balance in trying to actually have one? I’m guessing yes, because you seem like not rushed. I feel like if any of those things were full time again, you would be like, are we done yet? Can I go?
00:32:05:38 – 00:32:12:28
Agent Palmer
I got someone else to be it. And you seem fairly relaxed right now. So, like, was it the lessons from before?
00:32:12:32 – 00:32:37:40
Kat Collins
Yes, I think so. And I don’t know, creating art for me is less stressful. So other than the income aspect of it and trying to make it full time. Yeah. As lessons learned from before, I try very hard to be home for dinner, you know, to take time off on the weekends and just be very deliberate about how I schedule myself.
00:32:37:43 – 00:32:59:08
Agent Palmer
And how hard is that? Because it’s something you want to be doing, which I, you know, because it’s not this is not like I mean, just for people listening. This is not just like whatever your actual 9 to 5 based. This is something you you wake up every morning because you want to do and you are doing it, but that also makes it hard to stop doing it.
00:32:59:13 – 00:33:18:52
Kat Collins
It does. I treat it like a 9 to 5. Okay, so I treat this as my work. I drive to my studio in the morning every day. I work at my studio till about three only because rush hour traffic sucks and I want to leave before then. That makes sense because it’s 45 minutes from my studio to home, so I.
00:33:18:57 – 00:33:27:16
Kat Collins
But I treat it that way. Even my GPS, it’s work, so I’m trying to consciously make it as though I’m going and I have to do something.
00:33:27:18 – 00:33:27:59
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:33:28:01 – 00:33:45:26
Kat Collins
And it doesn’t mean I paint every day. Some days it’s just admin stuff. Some days I get there and I’m like, it’s not working, but I’m here. Yeah. And I’m in my studio and I’ll find something to do. Sometimes it’s doing the puzzle that’s out in the lobby that’s, you know, not painting, but that’s okay.
00:33:45:27 – 00:33:56:17
Agent Palmer
So how much of the treating it professionally and doing the 9 to 5 was taking the studio out of the home, like was actually going and getting.
00:33:56:26 – 00:34:15:18
Kat Collins
That was a big part of it. Yeah, it wasn’t my basement, which made it easy so I could go and do it any time I wanted to. Didn’t matter. Time of day, nothing. I didn’t have to get dressed. I didn’t have to, you know, look nice to go somewhere, anything like that. Technically, I really probably don’t now, but it separated that.
00:34:15:20 – 00:34:35:55
Kat Collins
So now I have to make a conscious decision to say I’m going to my studio, which means I will put in a length of time while and there. Yeah, instead of ten minutes here, 20 minutes there, you know, it makes a difference. And there’s nothing wrong with working within your home. Absolutely not. Because, you know, it served my purpose for several, many years.
00:34:36:02 – 00:34:48:33
Kat Collins
But I felt like in taking an actual studio, it was leveling up for myself and pushing me into a different professional realm in the way I treated myself and my artwork.
00:34:48:35 – 00:35:10:41
Agent Palmer
So how how long we’re going to just say, you’ve moved in to this, how long did it take you to get comfortable? Because I know that for me, let’s say writing, for example, I’m not the best guy to go right at a cafe. I need to be comfortable if I’m going to sit down and write. It doesn’t matter if it’s on a keyboard or pad and paper.
00:35:10:41 – 00:35:25:38
Agent Palmer
I need to be comfortable. How long did it take you? Like, yeah, it’s your space, it’s your studio, but it’s it’s not your basement where you’ve been creating for the last however long. So like, how long did it take to get comfortable in a new place?
00:35:25:50 – 00:35:27:09
Kat Collins
I would say it probably took.
00:35:27:09 – 00:35:49:24
Kat Collins
Me about two months. Okay. You know, it it felt comfortable to start when I was there because it was my own studio. It was all my own stuff, that kind of thing. So that made it easier. But there’s always people around because there’s other artists that are in the same building that I am. There’s 18 of us there right now, and you had to learn if you keep your door open, somebody coming in.
00:35:49:37 – 00:36:07:25
Kat Collins
Okay. So you had to learn that balance of like, I’m not used to this. I had my cats. It wasn’t, you know, that’s my conversationalist before. So I had to learn how to how to. It’s okay to shut my door for a while and work and then open it to be social and learn that kind of balance with that.
00:36:07:30 – 00:36:20:49
Agent Palmer
Was it easier having other artists around, though? I mean, obviously your basement, it’s whoever comes to actually visit. It’s not like you can just be like, hey, so your cats aren’t giving you feedback, right? Like.
00:36:20:51 – 00:36:55:11
Kat Collins
Other than eating my paintbrush and stepping in my paint so and letting me know when I was done and it was their turn, you know? No, it’s made a huge difference. I will tell you, having community around you is massive, and being in my basement and I have been painting for years and creating artwork and putting it out there, there was always this voice in the back of my head that I’m not at the level I thought I was or I wanted to be, or that it was okay work, but it wasn’t really anything great kind of thing.
00:36:55:15 – 00:37:15:24
Kat Collins
And then when I was in the studio and there’s other artists around me, and they’re coming in and talking about my work and expressing what they think to me, and all of a sudden it was kind of like a light bulb went off and say, oh, maybe I am doing something worthwhile here, that this isn’t just a little hobby that I’m doing and that this could be something more.
00:37:15:29 – 00:37:39:15
Kat Collins
And I think that has given me incredible confidence in my artwork now. It’s also allowed me to be confident enough to push my artwork even further than what it is. And so I feel like my art from when I first moved to the studio to what it is now, has grown exponentially.
00:37:39:18 – 00:37:44:34
Agent Palmer
And I presume the way you talk about it. You’re not done pushing?
00:37:44:36 – 00:37:45:58
Kat Collins
Absolutely not.
00:37:46:03 – 00:37:50:17
Agent Palmer
But obviously you don’t know what that looks like yet because you haven’t gone there. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:50:19 – 00:38:12:54
Kat Collins
Correct. I’m getting so I’m working. So I’m doing a new series right now, which is it’s very outside my comfort zone and it’s very vulnerable. It’s much more unpolished than what I typically do and much bigger. So when I first started painting, I was doing five six foot, seven foot, eight foot paintings. It was no big deal to me.
00:38:12:59 – 00:38:19:49
Kat Collins
There’s been years since I’ve done that, mostly because I didn’t have the space. I can’t stand in eight foot painting in my dining room, you know?
00:38:19:54 – 00:38:20:17
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:38:20:20 – 00:38:33:26
Kat Collins
Because first off, my wife yells at me because I got paint on the curtains. So, you know, now I have the space and I’m slowly pushing it bigger so that I can get back into that.
00:38:33:29 – 00:38:34:09
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:38:34:14 – 00:38:45:54
Kat Collins
You know, and I’m going to I’m in the process of, of getting the funds to buy rolls of canvas that I can tack up on the wall and do like these nine foot, ten foot paintings and just go to town.
00:38:45:57 – 00:39:08:29
Agent Palmer
All right. So I have to stop you for a second. So we’ve talked about, you know, a lot of different things in pushing yourself and the social aspect of it and the selling yourself aspect of it. But logistically, I have to ask. I mean, I have a fairly decent sized SUV. What’s the logistics on a nine foot painting?
00:39:08:34 – 00:39:38:54
Agent Palmer
You know, because I understand this. Like I have a how picks the one in my dining room. I mean, maybe with the frame it’s five by four, maybe with the frame and the matting and everything. But that’s the biggest piece in my house. It’s the biggest piece I’ve ever, like, handled you. I, I can envision nine feet, but the logistics, I mean, do you like and I and I, I’m coming.
00:39:38:58 – 00:39:48:58
Agent Palmer
This is just from complete ignorance. But like do you go I think I want to paint this and oh my god now it’s nine feet. And then you go like now how do I move it. Like is there a.
00:39:49:00 – 00:39:54:14
Kat Collins
Like more or less like, yeah, I mean I’m going to need a ladder to paint it to start with.
00:39:54:19 – 00:39:54:48
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:39:54:50 – 00:40:17:08
Kat Collins
But but yeah, no, I even have a four foot by four foot painting right now. That’s done. But I had to run a van to take it to a show because it didn’t fit in my car. I mean, I have an SUV, but I can only fit a three foot by four foot in my car. So I had to rent an Econoline from Home Depot and put my artwork in there just so I could take it to a show like an hour away.
00:40:17:08 – 00:40:23:08
Agent Palmer
And the nine foot is going to be the same thing. Although you’re going to need a team, right? You’re not. That’s that’s I yeah.
00:40:23:08 – 00:40:43:09
Kat Collins
At that point I will have to rely on some other people for parts of it as well. But those are. So I’m not going to I typically paint on canvas, okay. And canvas is typically stretched onto bars of wood or aluminum or whatever you choose. When I go to transport it, I can have it off of those bars.
00:40:43:11 – 00:40:44:02
Agent Palmer
Oh, so you can roll.
00:40:44:02 – 00:40:44:59
Kat Collins
And so I can roll.
00:40:44:59 – 00:40:45:40
Agent Palmer
It, okay.
00:40:45:42 – 00:40:49:54
Kat Collins
And then reattach it wherever it needs to be. So that is always an option.
00:40:49:54 – 00:40:51:01
Agent Palmer
It’s a little bit easier.
00:40:51:04 – 00:40:51:59
Kat Collins
A little little.
00:40:52:01 – 00:41:00:32
Agent Palmer
Bit I mean these things you just figure out along the way like after you go like, oh I’ve four foot by I have a four foot painting now. Like what do I.
00:41:00:37 – 00:41:07:22
Kat Collins
Pretty much it’s called asking other artists and searching the internet an awful lot because somebody has done it at some point.
00:41:07:24 – 00:41:13:43
Agent Palmer
That’s true, that’s true. I mean, do you want to do a mural? Like, do you want to go like side of a building, ever? I mean.
00:41:13:45 – 00:41:20:19
Kat Collins
No, no. See, to me, doing a mural requires a different mindset because of how I paint.
00:41:20:23 – 00:41:20:59
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:41:21:02 – 00:41:26:18
Kat Collins
I think murals are a little bit more graphic, illustrative, kind of. So I don’t know.
00:41:26:30 – 00:41:31:44
Agent Palmer
How you can say that, but, I mean, there’s no reason we couldn’t do mixed media on the side of a building. I mean.
00:41:31:56 – 00:41:33:13
Kat Collins
That’s true. It could be done.
00:41:33:16 – 00:41:37:30
Agent Palmer
It would just need to be, you know, a little maybe kind of weatherproof.
00:41:37:37 – 00:41:39:03
Kat Collins
Yeah. Which can be happen.
00:41:39:06 – 00:41:39:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:41:39:44 – 00:41:48:46
Kat Collins
All right. So I mean, it’s cross my mind because I’ve seen proposals come across my computer for it, but I haven’t actually pulled the gun on us.
00:41:48:48 – 00:41:53:17
Agent Palmer
You’re not afraid of heights, right?
00:41:53:21 – 00:42:06:18
Kat Collins
Not. I’m not really afraid of heights, necessarily, because I’m a I’m fine getting on a ladder and stuff. It’s just if you get to a certain point, okay. It’s just, you know, uncomfortable.
00:42:06:23 – 00:42:08:49
Kat Collins
I may not go near the edge, you know? Pretty much.
00:42:08:52 – 00:42:15:01
Agent Palmer
So we talked about art. We talked about community. Is this the reason you started your podcast?
00:42:15:03 – 00:42:16:39
Kat Collins
Yes, yes.
00:42:16:42 – 00:42:25:58
Agent Palmer
And have you learned I mean, obviously you were having conversations with other artists before the podcast. What have you learned from it though?
00:42:26:03 – 00:42:50:06
Kat Collins
I learned that as artists we don’t talk about our inner states enough. We don’t talk about what drives what we do. You know the whys of what we do. We always talk about the how okay. You know, and logistically and the physical things of doing something, the pricing of doing something. But we never talk about the psychology behind it.
00:42:50:08 – 00:42:53:04
Kat Collins
And this is where my art therapy background into play.
00:42:53:06 – 00:42:54:13
Agent Palmer
All right. All right.
00:42:54:15 – 00:43:15:05
Kat Collins
Because it’s always fascinated me about what makes people tick and why they do what they do. Why do we make the choices that we make? You know, and so I was looking at this in the art perspective as artists, a lot of times we don’t share with people why we do what we do. We, you know, what’s driving us to create a certain way.
00:43:15:09 – 00:43:40:52
Agent Palmer
Now, how often do you even get that question at an opening or an event, right. Because obviously artist artist in like I know from podcast to podcast you can get into the weeds on like recording stuff or whatever, whatever. But like, do you even get that do like do you like if, if I, if, you know, you told me so I know, but like in any event, you’ve ever been to where your arts been up.
00:43:40:53 – 00:43:44:46
Agent Palmer
Has anyone ever asked you that like does that even so it does come up.
00:43:44:48 – 00:44:01:38
Kat Collins
It does come up. Yeah, I actually get asked that a lot. And it’s probably because I do more abstract work. So people are trying to understand it. Okay. So I think they’re asking, you know, what is this? It doesn’t make sense to me. So I’m able to get into in that respect.
00:44:01:38 – 00:44:08:28
Agent Palmer
But if I’m if I’m over here painting landscapes, I probably am not getting that question. Not to the extent that you are, at least.
00:44:08:30 – 00:44:35:05
Kat Collins
Probably you may not be. It all depends on how you’re painting it, I think. I mean, if it’s really representational in the sense that it’s a picture of a picture kind of thing, yeah, you probably won’t get that question as much because people think you’re just recreating what you see kind of thing. And so when I teach, because I do teach classes as well, as far as for painting classes, I encourage people to put emotion in what they’re doing, even if it is representational, okay.
00:44:35:07 – 00:44:44:42
Kat Collins
Because it’s in the way that you move the paintbrush, it’s in the way you make a mark, it’s in the colors you choose. There’s so much psychology behind it that we don’t realize.
00:44:44:45 – 00:44:50:28
Agent Palmer
And how much of the why from the podcast and from other do you bring into the classroom.
00:44:50:30 – 00:45:10:55
Kat Collins
A lot. I bring a lot of it in. Yeah, but I, I try to make it more about them, not about me. Sure. And thereby, like, why are you doing this? Why are you you know, what’s drawing you to make it this way? Why are you picking this color? What’s your reasoning by it? So, like we’ll do color maps that relate to emotions.
00:45:11:10 – 00:45:33:32
Kat Collins
I do a lot of somatic stuff. Where do you feel this color? In your body. You know, when you draw a heartbeat. How is that coming out when you listen to your heartbeat and create from that respect? So it’s more about getting in touch with ourselves intuitively and being within our own bodies more rather than. So outside of that, that’s what I feel.
00:45:33:35 – 00:45:38:56
Agent Palmer
And I guess then the extension would be. So you’ve learned from the podcast, what have you learned from teaching?
00:45:38:58 – 00:45:44:24
Kat Collins
What have I learned from teaching that I actually like to teach is true.
00:45:44:27 – 00:45:46:22
Agent Palmer
I was that in doubt at the beginning?
00:45:46:24 – 00:46:06:49
Kat Collins
Yes it was. I wasn’t sure I really wanted to do that, you know? But as a professional artist, you have to make money several different ways in different income streams. You can’t just rely on selling a painting unless you’re one who sells for like $30,000 a painting, which is not the average artist. So you have different income streams.
00:46:06:49 – 00:46:20:58
Kat Collins
And one of them I decided to do was teaching because that pays for my studio, okay? And I was like, I’m doing this because I have to do this. And then I discovered I actually enjoy doing this.
00:46:21:03 – 00:46:45:57
Kat Collins
You know, it’s like it was fun. It’s enjoying. It gives me so much excitement when I watch people’s reactions as they’re working and their eyes light up and the things dawn on them and they’re like, oh, that’s what this means. Or this is why I do what I do, and on and on. And even the fact that they just can create something and they get excited brings me joy.
00:46:46:05 – 00:47:09:10
Agent Palmer
Well, I don’t I don’t think enough people take the time. I, I this is a very bad thing to think about because I think it will never. I think if you even get close to 5050, there’s something wrong with you. But I like to think that I create something new. I don’t know, maybe 10% of the time for the 90%.
00:47:09:10 – 00:47:28:49
Agent Palmer
I’m, you know, reading books, listening to music, watching TV, watching a movie, reading something, looking at a piece of art, whatever. Then I’m between the podcast and the blog. I’m creating. I don’t even think it’s 10 to 1. I probably intake a lot more, so I don’t think 50 over 50 ever realistic. I don’t know if anybody can ever.
00:47:29:04 – 00:47:50:38
Agent Palmer
I think you wouldn’t be creating good stuff if you were spending half of your time creating and half of your time, you know, it’s an intake outtake balance. But I do think more people should be creating something. I think there’s a you and I have outlets, right? Like, even if we took all your art away, you still have the podcast and teaching that are outlets.
00:47:50:43 – 00:48:09:45
Agent Palmer
Yes. Not everybody has an outlet. And I think it’s no, not not to make that generalization, but it shows those of us with outlets are a little bit, I won’t say laid back. We’re very uptight artists are creators, creatives or.
00:48:09:49 – 00:48:21:39
Agent Palmer
Where balls of anxiety, we’re basically just cats, right? Like, But we we you need that. We need that kind of output something.
00:48:21:44 – 00:48:49:37
Kat Collins
Well, I mean, being creative in any aspect, you know, it doesn’t have to be to create a painting, but even just going to look at art or listen to music or do something woodworking or anything, it that’s proven facts, that it has an effect on your health physically. It has an effect on your emotion, your mind, and the amount that it releases for you is just tremendous.
00:48:49:40 – 00:48:52:40
Kat Collins
Even if you just did it ten, 15 minutes a day.
00:48:52:44 – 00:48:57:06
Agent Palmer
I mean, I could probably stand more.
00:48:57:10 – 00:49:02:44
Kat Collins
I think most of us could. You know, not everybody has a lot of time, but.
00:49:02:46 – 00:49:26:38
Agent Palmer
Yeah, but 15 minutes, you should be able to find 15 minutes for three songs or. Yes, you know, a little gallery somewhere. And look, I’m not I’m not going to be the snob. You can see Kats work online, right? Like you don’t have. I know you can go to places, but if you don’t have the time, every artist or a lot of them have online galleries.
00:49:26:38 – 00:49:39:51
Agent Palmer
So you can still experience unmount of a work. Maybe not in full, you know, but there’s there’s an amount. And yeah, we could all probably stay on to do better.
00:49:40:05 – 00:50:04:59
Kat Collins
Yes, absolutely. I mean, if you even just color in a coloring book, you know, for a little bit each day, it will release tension in your body and kind of take your mind to a different place so you’re not stressed or focused on things that are going on around you.
00:50:05:04 – 00:50:28:07
Agent Palmer
I think the two things that Kat and I were getting at towards the end of this conversation are related. As artists, we don’t always share why from Kat, and not everyone has an outlet and it shows from me. I see these two things working together or against each other because as artists, we don’t always share our why. People don’t realize that it could be for them and that art is approachable.
00:50:28:07 – 00:50:48:57
Agent Palmer
And this may be why not everyone has an outlet. I’m not saying that everyone needs to tune in to the DVD extras in order to understand movies, but it didn’t hurt a generation of us who then became intrigued about why and how. And it’s not just on the artist to explain why is one thing, but people need to ask why as well.
00:50:48:57 – 00:51:13:10
Agent Palmer
It’s not gatekeeping when you’re willing to answer the question and people just aren’t asking. Kat is open to answering the question as I asked it a few times during the episode, and I’m asked why on many episodes, and I’m open to answering it as well. But not everyone is open to asking it. So don’t be that person. Ask why, find out how, and get yourself an outlet of any kind.
00:51:13:14 – 00:51:34:47
Agent Palmer
As Kat says, even coloring in a coloring book can be mentally beneficial. It absolutely can be that simple. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 176. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact Kat or myself in the show notes.
00:51:34:49 – 00:52:40:11
Agent Palmer
You can see Kats work and read Kat’s Words at Kat Collins Studio and connect on socials like Instagram Threads and Facebook, also all at Kat Collins Studio. The music for this episode was provided by Henno Heitur. Email and comments can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember your home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent Palmer.
00:52:40:16 – 00:52:42:26
Agent Palmer
All right. Do you have one final question for me?
00:52:42:28 – 00:52:45:18
Kat Collins
I do. Why do you do what you do?
00:52:45:23 – 00:53:11:12
Agent Palmer
You know, I, I, I get this almost. It feels like I get this once every, like 20, 20 episodes and I, I, I don’t I don’t go back and revisit that stuff. Maybe not necessarily. Maybe I should I don’t know. I know I still do this because I enjoy talking period. I just I just do I like, I like I’m a I’m an inquisitive person.
00:53:11:12 – 00:53:29:54
Agent Palmer
I like being able to ask questions and have the conversation. And while I know that two of my biggest critics, my wife and my father, are like, why didn’t you? Why’d you interrupt them and, like, not let them finish the story? And you went on a tangent. I know I get it, but I also that’s the interaction I like.
00:53:29:57 – 00:53:51:34
Agent Palmer
I like being able to stop you and say, oh, but wait, what about this thing you just said? Like, I know there’s the listener. No, everybody knows you weren’t done with your story, but I like the interaction to stop you. And maybe we go somewhere else. Maybe we don’t. But it answers a further question. I don’t get that from a book, and I’m a voracious reader.
00:53:51:34 – 00:54:10:32
Agent Palmer
I love reading, but you don’t get that. I mean, I guess I could just be there could be a word or a phrase that I look up, but it doesn’t. There’s not a chance we’re going to take a left complete left turn in a, in a book that you would in a conversation. And that give and take is what keeps me doing this.
00:54:10:37 – 00:54:38:36
Agent Palmer
I still don’t know what I mean. I guess I can’t imagine not blogging. I can’t imagine not sharing with, I guess, the internet at large because blogging communities have don’t really exist anymore. It’s really just a whatever your social circle is and whoever’s willing to click on your link. But I just, I can’t imagine not sharing a weekly thought with the internet at large.
00:54:38:38 – 00:55:02:15
Agent Palmer
And, you know, half of them are book reviews, so half of them are like, man, I really like this book, although a few of them are like, you should really stay away from this book. And the rest of them are just, I don’t know, I, I’m in this weird place, and anybody who’s listened to the last few episodes, like all of the the one final questions, are kind of like been around the creative space.
00:55:02:15 – 00:55:25:30
Agent Palmer
Like, if I was going to put out a book, what would it be? Or is there a project I haven’t done yet? Or you know, what’s what’s next or what what what’s the new medium? Whatever. And at the moment, I don’t know. I’m willing to, you know, see what, what what the muse moves me with. But I don’t know that I could give the rest of it up.
00:55:25:35 – 00:55:48:29
Agent Palmer
Like. And I say that I don’t know if it’s too glib or not, but I know that there was a while there where? God, this is probably ten, 15 years ago, whenever Chris Hardwick officially sold Nerdist to like, some conglomerate or whatever, and he had to give up the podcast, or the podcast was the one thing he kept until it went away.
00:55:48:29 – 00:56:09:42
Agent Palmer
And then he had to bring it back. And I remember him coming back with what at the time was identity, which is now something else completely, and him saying that if he could go back, he would never have sold Nerdist. Even though it became something bigger than him, he never would have sold it. And he came back because he wanted to keep doing what he was doing.
00:56:09:49 – 00:56:31:55
Agent Palmer
And I just think, all right, well, yeah, first of all, no one’s buying a blog that those days are gone now. But if somebody did offer me whatever my number is, it feels like a ridiculous number I’d never have. My my grandkids would never have to work again. Right. Like. Or my great grandkids like, that’s the number we’re talking about.
00:56:31:55 – 00:56:58:30
Agent Palmer
But if that number did get offered to me, I could only sell if I didn’t have to sign an NDA because I would still keep doing the thing I’m doing. It’s just I, I would just be like, all right, yeah, I want to share this. I like the process of writing. I like the idea of, you know, I think for my reading habit, I think I get more out of the books that I then, you know, I take some notes on as I read through it.
00:56:58:30 – 00:57:15:36
Agent Palmer
But I think my comprehension now may be better than it ever was in high school when I was supposed to be taking notes, where now I’m taking notes and I’m going back and I’m writing for myself to tell Kat why I like this book, or it didn’t like this book, or what I thought of this book and why it confused me so much.
00:57:15:50 – 00:57:25:06
Agent Palmer
And so there’s that. And then there’s the challenge. Because I have a friend who helps edit because you always need some other pair of eyes.
00:57:25:16 – 00:57:25:42
Kat Collins
Yes.
00:57:25:42 – 00:57:49:53
Agent Palmer
Who’s like, you got to stop writing just book reviews. Because for a while it wasn’t it wasn’t every other. It was everyone. He’s like, so for a few years now it’s been every other has been a book review because he’s like, you got to write something else. And for me, you know, I have a have a young child and my wife works full time and we don’t get the time to we don’t watch movies like we used to, and we don’t watch television like we don’t watch anything like we used to.
00:57:49:55 – 00:58:08:28
Agent Palmer
So outside of books, my one true standard consumption, everything else is just like, all right, well, how am I going to fill in the other posts? And I like that challenge, like, oh, are we going to sit down and watch a movie? Which is never a guarantee that I’m going to get a post, by the way, it’s just like, all right, well, I watch that.
00:58:08:30 – 00:58:39:00
Agent Palmer
I don’t have anything to say to move on to, you know, maybe building a music playlist or doing a track by track deep dive on an album. Those are music related or just, I mean, as we speak. I don’t know if any of these have come out yet, because I know they’re still works in progress, but I’m I was thinking about what happened to the incredible edible egg campaign that is still ingrained in my head, and I started writing about it, and I did a little research.
00:58:39:00 – 00:59:03:48
Agent Palmer
And at the moment, in one of the piles in my office is a rough draft of, I don’t know an amount of words about that. It just needs at this point, I think it just needs a conclusion. I have yet to figure out how to bring it on home, but I’ve set it all up. But so stuff like that, that just feels in the gap in between the book, stuff that I really enjoy.
00:59:03:53 – 00:59:31:01
Agent Palmer
It’s a challenge. It’s the reason that man, school was never this fun. I do more writing now. I do more homework now. School was never this fun and I, I granted. Okay, if you were to go through the transcripts from like maybe I feel like maybe kindergarten on does not live up to potential is going to be there in some phrase.
00:59:31:08 – 00:59:54:02
Agent Palmer
Probably through when I graduated college. Right. Like I feel like that’s my lot in life. I feel like I’m finally at expectations. I don’t know that I’m exceeding them, but I feel like I’m finally at expectations. And maybe this is a very long way of saying that’s why I still do this, because I feel like that’s my own expectation of myself.
00:59:54:05 – 01:00:04:45
Kat Collins
Well, in hearing all that, I think it’s part of why I do what I do as well, in the sense that it’s a way of connecting. Yeah. You know, we get to connect with other people through what we do.
01:00:04:52 – 01:00:27:29
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with. Look, I’ve, I’ve had a lot of first time guests, people that have never been on a podcast, people that will never, ever, ever, ever again be on the podcast. And it’s just because I found them through some, you know, I don’t know how I found them. So a random social network of some kind.
01:00:27:31 – 01:00:51:37
Agent Palmer
And I was like, hey, you seem interesting. Like, come on the show. And then, you know, they did the show and never did another one because it, you know, they enjoyed their time on this show, but never, you know, it wasn’t they aren’t promoting anything. They’re just themselves my god like. But I also know that I reached out to an author who’s a friend of mine, and I text him on a semi-regular basis, and I don’t know what’s going to come of meeting you like.
01:00:51:41 – 01:01:23:38
Agent Palmer
And I don’t mind that that’s we don’t have to be best friends. We could go out to lunch tomorrow. Like I’m either of those things is perfectly fine. This last, however, our plus has been wonderful, and I. Maybe it’s because I’m willing to put myself out there for the blog for so long, and now the podcast that I’m willing to go, all right, but an hour and a half with Kat, even if that’s it and we never communicate again.
01:01:23:42 – 01:01:49:34
Agent Palmer
That’s cool. Like there are no I like I’m not expecting anything. Right. And I think, man, maybe that’s the other piece is like, I don’t have any expectations. And I come in as open as possible so I can ask you questions. And so hopefully you can ask me questions and we can genuinely share things that work or don’t work for us in any capacity or in life.
01:01:49:41 – 01:02:06:02
Agent Palmer
And this is our moment and it moves on like, you know, when this is when we when we hit cut, you’re on to the next piece. There’s no there’s no series to this. We’re done. And that’s okay. Or we can start up another you can come back on in a few months. Who knows.
01:02:06:02 – 01:02:12:04
Kat Collins
But those things are what? Cause the ripples. Yeah, that reach other people, even if we don’t know it.
01:02:12:04 – 01:02:30:31
Agent Palmer
And I’m. I’m willing to do it. I’m willing to put in the hours to edit it and promote it. We could all do better promoting our own stuff. Let’s not go there. But but I’m willing to do all that. Even if it only hits one person, that’s fine. But I mean, this is the the worst kept secret for people that are honest.
01:02:30:36 – 01:02:44:47
Agent Palmer
I feel like you’re probably in this with me, Kat. It moved me. I was here where I like. Fair enough. Like, even if nobody listens to this episode, I moved. We’re like, mission accomplished.
01:02:44:52 – 01:02:46:40
Kat Collins
Yes, exactly.
01:02:46:42 – 01:03:00:01
Agent Palmer
And the same with, I presume, the same with your work. I mean, yeah, you do want to sell it and you do want to put food on the table, but that fur that creator in you is like, oh, I did something here.
01:03:00:05 – 01:03:09:46
Kat Collins
I did something and somebody saw it and had a reaction. Good or bad, it doesn’t matter to me. It’s just out there and then I can move on to the next one.
01:03:09:51 – 01:03:12:22
Agent Palmer
There’s always the next one.
01:03:12:26 – 01:03:13:31
Kat Collins
It never ends.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).