For episode ten of The Palmer Files guest Paula Allen, host of the Tell Me Stories Podcast, joins Agent Palmer to discuss storytelling, writing, podcasting, listening and of course we tell a few stories, including the unwelcome welcome at the beginning of our friendship.
Paula and Jason relive the origins of their meeting up, the run not taken, music, and it all comes back to the importance of storytelling.
Throughout the conversation, we cover:
- Why is storytelling important?
- Why podcasting for Paula?
- With Story, it is the details and little things
- Great Stories
- Fiction
- Escape (from politics)
- Generational narratives
- Growing with experience and people
- Road Trips
- Online relationships
- Storytelling and experience
- Storytelling the skill
- Musc listen to the album vs live performance
- Hero stories
- Going through strife
- What writing is…
- That one story (Death of a storyteller)
- The writer writes always
- blogging/process
- Writing fiction (I don’t usually)
- Old drafts
- Idea packrat (writing hoarder)
- Consuming stories
- More Tell me stories coming soon
- Being the audience
- Atmosphere and storytelling
- Palmer Files Pressure
- On not being PRess
- Paula and Palmer Origin story
- Podtoberfest Writer’s room
- Unwelcome welcome
- IRL it was instant
- The run not taken
- Introverted Extraverts
- New Stories vs. Old Stories
- Mom Stories
- The best storyteller Paula knows
- YouTube/Twitch
- Personality and storytelling
- Sage advice from agent palmer
- Being the silent audience
- The worst grade Paula ever got
- Ethnography
- Sermonizing
- The Rabbi Not Taken
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Len Deighton’s Goodbye Mickey Mouse is a great read that crosses genres.
The Palmer Files Episode 1: The Dip with Bill Sweeney
The Palmer Files Episode 2: Blogging with Kristin Maier
The Palmer Files Episode 3: Podcasting with Dan Lizette
The Palmer Files Episode 4: Health & Wellness with Margo Donohue
The Palmer Files Episode 5: Modern Archaeology with Tristan Boyle the Anarchaeologist
The Palmer Files Episode 6: Changing Careers with Carl Landra
The Palmer Files Episode 7: The Reigning Lunatic with Geoffrey Welchman
The Palmer Files Episode 8: Fine Art with Sean Hizny
The Palmer Files Episode 9: Adaptation and Interpretation with Jason Zapata.
You can also hear more Palmer in the meantime on Our Liner Notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and as mentioned on this show as co-host of The Podcast Digest with Dan Lizette.
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:08 – 00:00:28:18
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer dot com 20 Movies That Interest me in 2020. A review of Len Dayton’s novel Goodbye, Mickey Mouse. And after the last episode. I wonder if this podcast would do better as an adaptation or interpretation. This is The Palmer Files episode ten, featuring the host of the Tell Me Stories podcast, Paula Allen, where we discuss storytelling, writing, podcasting, listening and of course, we tell a few stories, including the unwelcome welcome at the beginning of our friendship.
00:00:28:22 – 00:00:52:04
Agent Palmer
Let’s do the show.
00:00:52:08 – 00:01:17:21
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to the Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Stershic, also known as Agent Palmer, and on this 10th episode is host of the Tell Me Stories podcast, Paula Allen. Now, this episode was a promise to myself as much as it was to Paula, who was a big enthusiast of this project before it had a name, some episodes, and a feed, I had at one time promised Paula that she would be guest number ten if I ever did launch a podcast.
00:01:17:26 – 00:01:37:08
Agent Palmer
Well, not only have I launched the show, but I have reached the ten episode milestone and it was time to get my friend back on mic. She’s the host of the Tell Me Stories podcast, which, while new episodes haven’t been released in a while, episodes have been recorded. And you don’t just have to take my word for it, she said so during the podcast.
00:01:37:13 – 00:01:59:26
Agent Palmer
But why? Paula? Besides the fact that she’s a good friend, basically a sister to me, she’s got amazing energy and she can weave words with the best of them. When I talk about the original rough list of guests, some had topics and others didn’t. But with Paula, storytelling was always going to be our topic, and we did well.
00:01:59:31 – 00:02:20:12
Agent Palmer
We stayed pretty much on topic, but if we said anything you want to discuss, you can tweet me at Agent Palmer. You can tweet the show at the Palmer Files, and you can tweet Paula at Stories Underscore podcast. You can hear her show the Tell Me Stories podcast. Wherever you are listening to this right now. Or you can visit Tell Me Stories podcast.com.
00:02:20:17 – 00:02:40:51
Agent Palmer
Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and the occasional story on Agent palmer.com. And remember all of these links and those mentioned in the show will be in the show notes. So without further ado.
00:02:40:56 – 00:02:50:44
Agent Palmer
Paula, I wanted you to come on my show to talk about storytelling. Because when I think of storytelling, I think of you are.
00:02:50:49 – 00:02:56:15
Paula Allen
That’s so nice. I do a bit of storytelling, got a bit of a podcast.
00:02:56:15 – 00:02:56:58
Agent Palmer
About.
00:02:57:03 – 00:02:58:42
Paula Allen
I. A little bit about storytelling. Yeah.
00:02:58:44 – 00:03:04:23
Agent Palmer
You do. So I figured, let’s start here. Why is storytelling important?
00:03:04:27 – 00:03:39:26
Paula Allen
I think storytelling is I just I don’t think it’s just important. I think it’s vital. I don’t think humans exist outside of it. I think it is what binds us through time. I think it’s, community maker, whether we like the story or not. And not just historically and historically, but culturally. Like, it’s it exists in every culture throughout time and before time.
00:03:39:26 – 00:03:43:13
Paula Allen
It’s it is the essence of what it is to be a human.
00:03:43:18 – 00:03:48:08
Agent Palmer
And this is basically one of your passions.
00:03:48:13 – 00:03:54:00
Paula Allen
Yeah. I really that’s a deep, deep question to just.
00:03:54:00 – 00:03:55:14
Paula Allen
Right off the bat.
00:03:55:14 – 00:04:12:50
Paula Allen
Palmer. Oh my word. Yeah, I think it’s it’s why I wanted to start podcasting. It’s actually not even why I want to start podcasting. I’ve been storytelling and collecting stories for so long, I just needed a medium to get them out. And that’s what podcasting was.
00:04:12:55 – 00:04:18:17
Agent Palmer
Why podcasting? Why not just write them down?
00:04:18:22 – 00:04:38:11
Paula Allen
I did I wrote them down a lot. I wrote I had a blog for a really long time. I wrote for fanzines. I started a few different fanzines. I wrote for magazines, I wrote for online publications. You name it, I did it, I wrote, wrote, and then when I was done writing, I wrote a little bit more.
00:04:38:16 – 00:05:04:24
Paula Allen
The difference for me and what I’ve said, I think in my podcast, certainly in season one, into a bit more than three and four is the difference in audio. Storytelling is immense. It’s so powerful. It is so powerful. Hearing someone’s story in their own words and hearing someone retell the same story in their own words is still super power.
00:05:04:24 – 00:05:22:07
Paula Allen
If it’s a story they’ve told before and they tell it again, it’s still ten times better than you think it would be. Having seen it in the email ahead of time. Hey, I’m going to tell a story about this on your show. Is that okay? Absolutely, yes. Let’s go. And then you hear it. And even though you’re prepared, you’re still blown away.
00:05:22:12 – 00:05:42:08
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s because it’s all about details, right? It’s not about you know, I went from A to B, it’s how you got there. It’s why you got there. It’s how you felt on the way and how you felt when you got there. It’s. It’s all those little things that wouldn’t be in the email to begin with otherwise they’d be novel.
00:05:42:13 – 00:05:44:18
Paula Allen
Yeah. It’s happened.
00:05:44:23 – 00:06:03:53
Agent Palmer
And and the other part is there are things you can I mean, I have a blog, but there are things that I cannot convey with words. All the punctuation in the world is not going to help me with a certain inflection or and this has not happened on this show or any show I’ve really ever been a part of.
00:06:03:53 – 00:06:07:13
Agent Palmer
But I can’t make my voice crack.
00:06:07:18 – 00:06:07:58
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:06:08:03 – 00:06:09:15
Agent Palmer
You know what I mean? Like, that.
00:06:09:23 – 00:06:11:37
Paula Allen
Happens all the time. It’s so.
00:06:11:37 – 00:06:39:01
Paula Allen
Weird. I’m just like, interviewing musicians. And they’re like, fair enough. They their emotions are closer to the surface. But yeah, it’s for me. It’s not. It’s the details for sure. It’s also the inflection, the emotion, the the raw ness of it. It’s not edited. I love when it’s unscripted. Obviously, that’s so much better. There’s a reason reality TV became like the be all, end all.
00:06:39:06 – 00:07:11:23
Paula Allen
It’s beautiful seeing someone have an honest to God conversation with someone else, and no one is telling them what to say. And it hasn’t been like prettified and it hasn’t been like scripted. It’s so much better. And the stories, you know, whether they’re embellished or not, I’m sure they all are. And I have, and I’ve had a caveat at the top of a lot of my shows saying, I don’t fact check if you were in a different town and what you told me, and you just don’t remember it that way, I couldn’t care less.
00:07:11:34 – 00:07:15:08
Paula Allen
I want to know the story and what it meant to you. And we’ve gotten some good stuff.
00:07:15:08 – 00:07:27:38
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s that’s a very interesting point, because I feel like I’m thinking back on, like, the great stories I’ve ever heard or read or, you know. Yeah. Consumed. Right?
00:07:27:43 – 00:07:28:08
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:07:28:17 – 00:07:34:03
Agent Palmer
Some of the great ones are fiction, you know, just for sure. Pure fiction. I mean, that.
00:07:34:08 – 00:07:38:10
Paula Allen
I don’t believe there’s any such thing as pure fiction. But yes, close to.
00:07:38:16 – 00:07:42:58
Agent Palmer
All right. Fine. I mean, in my head, I’m thinking about, like, elves and goblins and.
00:07:42:58 – 00:07:45:00
Paula Allen
Stuff, like. Yeah, like, but.
00:07:45:00 – 00:07:53:07
Agent Palmer
Those are still stories, right? And they’re adventure and they’re things to get lost in and things to learn from.
00:07:53:11 – 00:07:53:53
Paula Allen
00:07:53:58 – 00:08:13:01
Agent Palmer
And I feel like, like I don’t want to go political, but I feel like we down here in the States need that a lot more now than we ever did before. Like we need the escape but we need the escape with the, I don’t know, Saturday morning cartoon parable at the end like.
00:08:13:05 – 00:08:13:29
Paula Allen
So you.
00:08:13:29 – 00:08:19:07
Agent Palmer
Get like, well, in this episode, Palmer learned to share like we write, we need.
00:08:19:07 – 00:08:19:25
Agent Palmer
These.
00:08:19:25 – 00:08:19:45
Agent Palmer
Things.
00:08:19:45 – 00:08:23:17
Paula Allen
Like now we’re learned to impeach.
00:08:23:22 – 00:08:25:00
Agent Palmer
Get it done.
00:08:25:05 – 00:08:49:09
Paula Allen
Yeah, I don’t want to. We don’t have to get political because I’ll talk all night from my beautiful perch in Canada. But, yeah, I, I think the opposite of that. I think Americans need to be, like, way more plugged in to what’s happening. And fair enough. It’s so scary. I’d want to escape, too. But, yeah, I think political change doesn’t, exist in a vacuum, I guess.
00:08:49:09 – 00:09:06:32
Paula Allen
So I would I would encourage everyone to be plugged in there. But within that, we’re getting the greatest stories of our time. Would you have believed Watergate was a real thing when you were, like, growing up in the 60s? Neither of us did. But you know what I mean. And now kids of this generation are going to be like, can you believe what happens?
00:09:06:44 – 00:09:11:20
Paula Allen
And be like, yes. And we’ll tell stories about it for generations to come.
00:09:11:21 – 00:09:20:06
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s it’s it’s given our generation a new narrative beyond 911 because.
00:09:20:06 – 00:09:20:31
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:09:20:40 – 00:09:33:41
Agent Palmer
We didn’t have a moon landing, we didn’t have an assassination. We didn’t have Woodstock. Right? We didn’t have an Altamont either. So we only had this one moment.
00:09:33:46 – 00:09:34:08
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:09:34:22 – 00:09:38:34
Agent Palmer
And it was like, oh, where were you when 9/11 happened? That was our moment.
00:09:38:39 – 00:09:39:10
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:09:39:15 – 00:10:11:36
Agent Palmer
And now we have another moment. And listen, I really hope we get like a positive one. Like, like, I hope we live to see, some form of human on Mars. Like, that would be great, because. Yeah, then it would give us another story to tell. But, like, right now of things that have happened in our lifetime throughout either, our, you know, nation or continent or world, it’s whole like we only have negative quivers.
00:10:11:41 – 00:10:11:59
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:10:12:02 – 00:10:24:33
Agent Palmer
Like like negative arrows in our quiver. Like we don’t have any positive stories. There are positive stories on an individual level, which is where storytelling comes in again, because that’s how we share that positivity.
00:10:24:38 – 00:10:33:12
Paula Allen
Hopefully. I mean, I hope I get to see a larger sphere. It’s just not it’s just not that current. I mean, I hope that changes.
00:10:33:12 – 00:10:35:18
Paula Allen
For for me, right? God, if I.
00:10:35:18 – 00:10:56:43
Paula Allen
Can lump you all in as one, which I never could, I’ve met too many good Americans. But yeah, I think it’ll be good to have good stories again. And without without getting too political. But of course we have to do that to the climate we’re in. You the old adage of every country has the government that they deserve.
00:10:56:54 – 00:11:25:25
Paula Allen
If it is a democratic government, obviously, dictators don’t count. And and it’s true. So when Trump got into power, it really everyone was like, oh my God, how? And I was like, if you don’t know how you haven’t been paying attention. And now I think this actually is the beginning and the strife and the beautiful story of America.
00:11:25:30 – 00:11:50:24
Paula Allen
We’re just in this shit phase of it right now, and it’s going to be like how people who are actually good triumphed over evil, and it is going to be a great, great story to tell your kids and your grandkids. It’s just not fully written yet. I hope it goes well. But the country needed a shakeup. It did, and it super got one.
00:11:50:37 – 00:12:09:04
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it really did. But the thing that astounds me a bit is the argument of what will you tell your kids? Like, will you tell your kids you voted for him? Will you tell your kids you voted against him? Or, you know, and that’s always the argument, right?
00:12:09:04 – 00:12:10:16
Paula Allen
Like, is it really for.
00:12:10:16 – 00:12:10:38
Agent Palmer
Duty.
00:12:10:38 – 00:12:12:41
Paula Allen
So immaterial and for duty role.
00:12:12:47 – 00:12:24:36
Agent Palmer
Yeah. For doing something. Now both sides are saying like will you tell your kids you, you know, it’s and listen, it depends on which side of the aisle you on. Right. So right. If you’re if you’re pro trump.
00:12:24:41 – 00:12:25:27
Agent Palmer
Then.
00:12:25:32 – 00:12:59:31
Agent Palmer
That then then the argument ends up being not about him. It being you know, what will you tell your kids. You know will you tell your kids you stood up for your guns, you know, to hold on to your guns? And on the other side it’s like, well, will you tell your kids you didn’t stand up to, you know, Trump like there are they want you to be the lead like both sides in in trying to politicize and propagandize the issues want you to be at the center of this story.
00:12:59:36 – 00:13:19:39
Agent Palmer
And interesting. I don’t know if it’s it to me, like even hearing the words coming out of my mouth, it sounds like a wholly Americanized version of the way things are, because we’re not all at the we’re all at the center of our own story, sure, but we’re not.
00:13:19:39 – 00:13:20:15
Paula Allen
In the center.
00:13:20:15 – 00:13:21:02
Agent Palmer
Of everything.
00:13:21:11 – 00:13:33:55
Paula Allen
Have to be. But yeah, in terms of handing stories down generationally, there’s no such like if stories existed in a vacuum, they would just be silence. There’s no such thing.
00:13:33:55 – 00:13:34:57
Paula Allen
As like an individual.
00:13:34:58 – 00:13:55:24
Paula Allen
Story, even like a road trips or like, hey, I took this incredible journey. You’re like, you didn’t meet or see any other human. There was no interaction then. You didn’t grow because people don’t just grow and learn by doing. They. It is among others in which we actually grow and then have a story to tell about it, and moreover, can’t tell a story to a ghost.
00:13:55:24 – 00:13:57:13
Paula Allen
You have to have another person there.
00:13:57:18 – 00:14:09:23
Agent Palmer
All right. So hold on. We’re going to we’re going to take a trip. Because I have a question that you and I met after I took a road trip. And you took a road trip, actually, yeah.
00:14:09:28 – 00:14:11:30
Paula Allen
Which one of us drove further? I think you did.
00:14:11:39 – 00:14:12:38
Agent Palmer
I think I did, I.
00:14:12:39 – 00:14:13:13
Paula Allen
Yeah, you did.
00:14:13:13 – 00:14:26:49
Agent Palmer
I don’t know, I basically went west and took a right and went north. But we both took a road trip and we took that road trip because we met online.
00:14:26:54 – 00:14:27:24
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:14:27:28 – 00:14:38:25
Agent Palmer
So do online relationships matter in terms of that storytelling? Can I take that trip and meet people digitally?
00:14:38:30 – 00:14:39:41
Agent Palmer
00:14:39:46 – 00:14:41:32
Paula Allen
In terms of storytelling.
00:14:41:37 – 00:14:46:29
Agent Palmer
In terms of experiencing something that might be story worthy?
00:14:46:34 – 00:15:14:57
Paula Allen
I guess it just it sort of depends on what the exchange is like, what what are you guys meeting about in foreign? Yeah, I honestly think almost any experience at all can become a story. If you’re a good storyteller. And that is, I think, a developed skill and a taught skill. I don’t know that just sitting on your computer and never leaving your dwelling is.
00:15:15:02 – 00:15:16:06
Paula Allen
00:15:16:11 – 00:15:43:54
Paula Allen
Going to produce the same quality of story. But, we’ve also, you know, taken sci fi journeys, and they have been for me in the reading and telling and retelling of wonderful sci fi stories, as real as anything else, as beautiful and wonderful and meaningful. But I feel like you’re leaving the Shire was very good for you.
00:15:43:59 – 00:15:45:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah, probably. I mean.
00:15:45:51 – 00:15:49:14
Paula Allen
In terms of stories, I feel like you have some stories from that trip.
00:15:49:18 – 00:15:56:06
Agent Palmer
I definitely do have some stories that trip. But, I mean, all of those stories started well before I got in my car.
00:15:56:20 – 00:16:18:20
Paula Allen
Yeah, I just like the idea of those stories. Kind of. Maybe not the stories themselves, but of the journey coming to life. It’s like Five Goes West in 3D. It’s just great. It’s having. I think that’s true of like any kind of online experience where you can take it into real life, into real time, then you kind of see what what they’re made of.
00:16:18:20 – 00:16:36:25
Paula Allen
But you and I were having, a nice discussion before we hit record, wherein you were talking about you love to really listen to albums, get to know a band now, and I’m, I don’t know, maybe I’m not staunchly. I probably was before you said that. Hey, I only know what a band is made of once I’ve seen them live.
00:16:36:30 – 00:16:44:36
Paula Allen
And I still stick to that. In terms of lived experiences, I think you get better stories out of it.
00:16:44:41 – 00:17:08:59
Agent Palmer
No, that’s absolutely true. That’s absolutely true. But, I mean, when it comes to the band thing, I feel like it’s probably changed in my, in our lifetime. And I say that because during the CD era, this is what I’ll call the 90s. They were making something. They were making money hand over fist, and they could tour because they wanted to write.
00:17:09:01 – 00:17:22:07
Agent Palmer
And I feel like at least now on a on the larger scale of bands, maybe not the Indies so much or the, secondary bands, but the major bands are now touring because they have to.
00:17:22:12 – 00:17:26:49
Paula Allen
Yeah. And I and I think it’s only been good for them and better music has resulted.
00:17:26:54 – 00:17:38:56
Agent Palmer
I just haven’t seen that much, from the major bands that I’m not calling anybody out, but I haven’t seen anything other than like it. It it felt like another day at the office.
00:17:39:01 – 00:18:07:02
Paula Allen
I don’t really like. I’m not a huge fan of major bands anyways. Like I’ve always gone indie, I’ve interviewed indie, I’ve had, quite a few major bands on the show and it’s it’s rare to find they are as interesting. I think they’ve been doing the same thing too long. Some of them have like great stories like, oh, you know, like I was hanging out with the Rolling Stones and you’re like, not everyone has that.
00:18:07:02 – 00:18:08:07
Paula Allen
Story.
00:18:08:12 – 00:18:13:43
Agent Palmer
Or, you know, not everybody has that ties. The stones have been around for forever. Yeah.
00:18:13:43 – 00:18:44:03
Paula Allen
And they’ve been everywhere forever drinking vodka and eating salads. But I feel like the, the indie bands had always has better stories because there’s more struggle and strife. I feel like it’s a more hero based story where you’re like, they had to overcome something, whereas major bands maybe had to overcome a four star hotel versus a five, I don’t know, and maybe that’s, you know, the pauper in me.
00:18:44:03 – 00:18:46:46
Paula Allen
Just like calling out rich people, I don’t know.
00:18:46:46 – 00:18:47:31
Agent Palmer
Well, hold on, I’m.
00:18:47:31 – 00:18:49:14
Paula Allen
Like, I don’t I didn’t find the that interesting.
00:18:49:16 – 00:18:57:23
Agent Palmer
It it goes back to something that Kristen and I talked about when we were talking about writing in episode two of this show. If anybody wants to go back and.
00:18:57:37 – 00:18:58:01
Agent Palmer
Just start.
00:18:58:01 – 00:19:19:09
Agent Palmer
You know, and that was the, the, the idea that, because I grew up in a middle class household and because I grew up in a fairly, I won’t say like rich, like upper class, but like, I was middle class privileged, I guess I was never going to write good poetry, but I.
00:19:19:09 – 00:19:19:45
Agent Palmer
Do think.
00:19:19:45 – 00:19:27:24
Agent Palmer
That I don’t know, like, okay, so I thought that at the time, and that was the joke that I shared with my parents.
00:19:27:28 – 00:19:28:14
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:19:28:19 – 00:20:03:16
Agent Palmer
I don’t know if I believe that any more, but I will say that strife and struggle do make for better stories. So in theory, yeah, maybe I maybe I don’t necessarily believe it. Like I could have ended up writing better things back then, but maybe they would have been even better had I struggled a little bit more. I don’t know, it’s just, yeah, there’s a part of me where I still I don’t subscribe to the whole, you know, oh, the light bulb goes on.
00:20:03:21 – 00:20:08:24
Agent Palmer
Okay. I can write like, whether it’s a post or a story or whatever.
00:20:08:28 – 00:20:09:57
Paula Allen
Like some inspiration.
00:20:09:57 – 00:20:15:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah, like sudden inspiration. Like, sometimes it’s work, like artwork is work and. And that kind of stuff.
00:20:15:49 – 00:20:35:39
Paula Allen
But yeah, I think writing in general is grudge work. It is slogging through day after day, edit upon edit, humiliating rejection upon humiliating rejection. That’s what writing is. The moments of like beautiful inspiration are the gifts in between.
00:20:35:50 – 00:20:36:23
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I mean.
00:20:36:32 – 00:20:38:12
Paula Allen
There I, I think it’s both.
00:20:38:27 – 00:20:42:56
Agent Palmer
Okay. That’s fair. I mean, because I’ve, I’ve obviously experienced both I mean the.
00:20:42:56 – 00:20:43:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:20:43:30 – 00:20:52:50
Agent Palmer
The one story, that we were supposed to talk about on your show, if I ever get a chance to be on your show.
00:20:52:55 – 00:20:53:20
Paula Allen
Dude, I.
00:20:53:20 – 00:20:55:41
Paula Allen
Haven’t even edited things from August to summer.
00:20:55:41 – 00:20:56:19
Paula Allen
Okay.
00:20:56:24 – 00:20:56:48
Agent Palmer
I got it.
00:20:56:49 – 00:20:58:45
Paula Allen
I got over my head.
00:20:58:49 – 00:21:04:14
Paula Allen
But I’m starting three companies. I’m busy. Yeah, but yes, one day,
00:21:04:18 – 00:21:18:57
Agent Palmer
But that story, came together for me, like, hey, ridiculously just kind of, here it is for you. If you can write it fast enough, you won’t lose it.
00:21:19:01 – 00:21:31:32
Paula Allen
Yeah, I like was there’s a lot of schools of thoughts like that where you’re like, oh, I think here’s something beautiful. And if you want to capture it and do something with it, you can have it. If you don’t reach out and grab it, I’m moving on.
00:21:31:37 – 00:21:55:11
Agent Palmer
I can tell you, I, I know I’ve been there. Like, I feel like every creative’s been there where it’s like, last night in a dream or like, you know, while I was driving home in my car, I had, like, this epiphany. And by the time I got to where I was going or could stop and pull over and pull out a pad of paper or my phone to record it, like it was going, yeah.
00:21:55:15 – 00:22:16:20
Paula Allen
I start saying them out loud now. And then I audio remember them. I’ll be like, oh my gosh, this is a great idea, Paula. And then I’ll say it with my name in the sentence a few times, because that’s also a memory trigger. And then when I get home or pull over or can like record it to my phone, then I do a little trick there for anyone who’s trying to creatively remember stuff.
00:22:16:25 – 00:22:34:24
Agent Palmer
So say it out loud, do you? So you still write like, yes, off. Like you’re a very busy person or accurate? I don’t where first of all, where do you find time? Or is it just if something strikes you, find a piece of paper.
00:22:34:29 – 00:23:13:45
Paula Allen
I feel like the writer writes always. That is totally cliche and 100% accurate. I don’t know if I’ve had a day where I didn’t write. I have it’s it’s, I’m compelled to. It’s it’s a push. It’s not a pull. I have to write. I don’t know what my identity sphere kind of looks like without a pen in my hand or a laptop clicking away.
00:23:13:59 – 00:23:16:18
Paula Allen
And they’re not all diamonds.
00:23:16:21 – 00:23:18:04
Paula Allen
A lot of jewelry.
00:23:18:09 – 00:23:24:33
Paula Allen
Are useless and don’t go anywhere. But no, I, I always write.
00:23:24:38 – 00:23:33:42
Agent Palmer
Always are. And I mean, listen, we all have millions of unfinished things, right?
00:23:33:44 – 00:23:35:47
Paula Allen
Like build a house with my million unfinished.
00:23:36:01 – 00:23:46:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, that’s I mean, that’s the truth. Like, I have a I have a document where I try and keep all of my in-progress drafts.
00:23:46:14 – 00:23:51:01
Paula Allen
Oh, what a depressing thing to. Oh, no, I would never open that.
00:23:51:05 – 00:23:58:04
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s where I work, right? Because I’m like, all right, well, this is I. Yeah, but I feel like it’s up to like 95 pages now.
00:23:58:06 – 00:24:05:14
Paula Allen
That’s crazy. Like, that’s honestly, I couldn’t mind you. I’d be so upset. Just the first one to be like, oh, yeah, I didn’t finish. I just feel like, here’s my litany.
00:24:05:14 – 00:24:09:55
Agent Palmer
Of all right, well, okay. But so we’re we’re coming to the end of the year.
00:24:10:00 – 00:24:10:22
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:24:10:34 – 00:24:20:26
Agent Palmer
And in order to create my blog schedule for the next year, I start with all of the blogs I skipped from the current year.
00:24:20:29 – 00:24:22:43
Paula Allen
You’re a total masochist.
00:24:22:48 – 00:24:23:42
Paula Allen
You really.
00:24:23:42 – 00:24:33:46
Paula Allen
Are. But I’ve seen your schedule and I. If you’re so disciplined, like it’s great, it’s completely enviable. I just couldn’t not survive it.
00:24:33:59 – 00:24:35:30
Agent Palmer
Well, what what makes.
00:24:35:30 – 00:24:38:14
Paula Allen
You get a lot done? No I don’t I’m not as organized.
00:24:38:16 – 00:25:01:37
Agent Palmer
Well, no. That’s fair. I mean, I will say one of the things that I have the benefit of is like, it’s like that’s a movie over there. I want to review like I want I have something that I remember watching it or, you know, I’ve watched it a dozen times. I have something to say about that film. And then I just it gets replaced by like a book I read or something, and it gets moved out of the schedule, and then I never put it back in.
00:25:01:37 – 00:25:15:14
Agent Palmer
And then I come to the next year and it gives me a place to start. But we’re not talking about fiction, which, by the way, like that one piece I wrote. Yeah, I haven’t written fiction since and.
00:25:15:18 – 00:25:17:05
Paula Allen
Really.
00:25:17:10 – 00:25:53:03
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s, you know what? It’s it’s very odd because I also, like, occasionally dust off, like, one of the two finished short stories from, like, long ago. And I go, like, these are like from college and they’re, they were maybe not polished, but there’s something here. And I look at them and I go, I don’t I, I don’t know if I have anything left to add to this story.
00:25:53:08 – 00:25:55:47
Paula Allen
Yeah. Right now. But you kept it for a reason, right?
00:25:55:51 – 00:26:01:35
Agent Palmer
I guess either that or just a, like a an idea packrat.
00:26:01:40 – 00:26:04:09
Paula Allen
That was good. Gosh. Yeah. Like a.
00:26:04:20 – 00:26:29:40
Paula Allen
Writing hoarder. You might be. I mean, I don’t know, like, my laptop’s, plural are, like, filled with a lot of unfinished writing, but I don’t consider them to be lost causes. They just are in that form as they are, because the story’s not done yet. And when it is, I’ll know it and write it in there. And I find as I as I age, I don’t know what it is like.
00:26:29:40 – 00:26:47:58
Paula Allen
My writing style changes with the seasons. I don’t know how to always go back and make it fit, but I can make the idea fit by the writing style and the the, the making it sound good ness is not always there.
00:26:48:11 – 00:26:48:43
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean.
00:26:48:58 – 00:26:50:28
Paula Allen
So going back is really hard.
00:26:50:28 – 00:26:56:51
Agent Palmer
But that’s about get it like that first draft is all about just getting it out. It’s like.
00:26:56:51 – 00:26:57:37
Paula Allen
Yeah, purge.
00:26:57:37 – 00:26:59:15
Agent Palmer
From your soul. It’s like.
00:26:59:15 – 00:26:59:58
Paula Allen
Yeah, I got.
00:26:59:58 – 00:27:00:55
Agent Palmer
To get this down.
00:27:01:10 – 00:27:22:10
Paula Allen
Especially if it’s been ruminating. You’re like, oh, I just get off. Like, I need it out in a way. So then I can look at it from here and I like storytelling for that, because I’ll tell someone a story about something I’m going to write, usually like my best friend Allison, and then she’ll tell it back to me the next time I see her, and I’ll be like, all right, we have something here.
00:27:22:10 – 00:27:34:44
Paula Allen
We can do a sketch from this, we can write this. And from there it kind of helps me. I guess. It’s like an audio editor. So this is a very few people I would ever allow edit my stuff. But yeah, she’s she’s the one.
00:27:34:49 – 00:27:56:33
Agent Palmer
I’m going to shift gears because I want to talk about consuming stories for a moment because you have through your podcast and just in life in general, like met a ton of people. And I feel like for whatever reason, and I could be wrong here, so correct me. But like, people like to talk to you.
00:27:56:38 – 00:27:57:25
Agent Palmer
So you.
00:27:57:27 – 00:28:12:39
Agent Palmer
So like, it’s not that they’re just hi, Paula. It’s like, hi Paula. Here’s my whole story like that. They want to tell you this, their story. And I will say, first of all, your energy level is intimidating.
00:28:12:44 – 00:28:15:19
Paula Allen
You’re not at 5 a.m. at the gym.
00:28:15:24 – 00:28:16:06
Paula Allen
Sleeping like.
00:28:16:06 – 00:28:25:32
Paula Allen
Crawl in. Hello? No, but I like I like being, the person. People tell their stories too.
00:28:25:37 – 00:28:39:33
Agent Palmer
But, is there like, there have to be some that are better than others. And I’m not asking you to pick a favorite, but like the stories that hit you the most, or you know, in one way or another, right?
00:28:39:33 – 00:28:40:20
Paula Allen
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:40:22 – 00:28:44:09
Agent Palmer
Do they have common elements.
00:28:44:14 – 00:29:15:15
Paula Allen
The stories themselves don’t. The connection to the individual telling the story does. So yeah, there’s a long answer to that. I think the best piece of advice I ever got about storytelling I got this summer, and I haven’t aired the episode yet, but I will be airing it should be episode three of this season, possibly episode two, because I don’t know right now, and episode one is one of my favorite stories, ever.
00:29:15:15 – 00:29:42:17
Paula Allen
And I find as I progress as an interviewer and as a podcaster, the stories I’m getting, which isn’t like, you know, a box of chocolates, you get what you get. It’s really mining for gold. And it’s about getting. I think I said really early on, and it’s that part’s still true. It’s not about a specific piece of information.
00:29:42:17 – 00:30:11:15
Paula Allen
It’s about getting to a place with that specific person where they are comfortable enough to let their guard down and tell me something real, and that is whether the story is true or not. Actually becomes immaterial. Which is why I say don’t fact check. But the best advice I got was this summer, this wonderful, musician was in, and he has just, like, just such an incredible life story.
00:30:11:16 – 00:30:38:18
Paula Allen
His his whole life is a beautiful story of, like, triumph and like, oh my God, this guy was amazing. And he said, be the audience. That’s the biggest gift that you can give somebody is that everyone can tell a story. Anyone can tell a story. There’s good storytellers. There’s bad. Certainly I have favorites. There’s I usually call them out when they’re happening because I’m I’m sponsored by people I know and love.
00:30:38:18 – 00:31:08:25
Paula Allen
They don’t care what I do on my show and the privilege of being an engaged audience member, particularly in the format where I do it, where I take them from a very public backstage crazy space to an extremely intimate NI teeny tiny cottage studio in the middle of that, mayhem produces absolute beauty because I get to be the audience that they don’t know that they need.
00:31:08:32 – 00:31:09:30
Paula Allen
And I.
00:31:09:30 – 00:31:11:05
Paula Allen
Hope.
00:31:11:10 – 00:31:20:35
Paula Allen
And it’s a great privilege for me to get to try to do that for them. And you get great stuff, do you? But I for sure have favorites.
00:31:20:40 – 00:31:51:16
Agent Palmer
But do you feel any show when it comes to podcast storytelling? I will say I feel a bit of pressure and I kind of feel like maybe I want to know if you do too, but like to be the audience is a bit of pressure. Like, I know, I know you like at this point, you know, I’m I’m, you know, I’m, you know, I’m interviewing you.
00:31:51:18 – 00:32:25:23
Agent Palmer
We’re having a conversation when I’m not interviewing, but because that’s this show’s more conversational, but like, I’m conversing with you, my friend Paula. Yeah. Like, so I feel like there’s a responsibility for me to be like, you know, Paula, I already know that. But the listening audience doesn’t like we haven’t gotten anything. Yeah. And that. But like, you are talking to bands that in some cases you’ve been following on the indie scene.
00:32:25:23 – 00:32:25:56
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:32:26:00 – 00:32:42:19
Agent Palmer
Do you feel like that audience responsibility beyond just being in the room and engaged for the story at the moment, but like thinking, like projecting forward, like I’m listening on behalf of my audience?
00:32:42:24 – 00:32:43:06
Paula Allen
No.
00:32:43:11 – 00:32:44:03
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:32:44:08 – 00:32:56:47
Paula Allen
I don’t, and that’s because there’s really nice reciprocity in what I do. It’s really good for the bands to get the exposure. It’s really good for the festival to have this weird little podcast.
00:32:56:48 – 00:32:57:57
Paula Allen
Trailer.
00:32:58:08 – 00:33:22:29
Paula Allen
That people really want to go and do and then say they did, and it’s really good for me. You know, because I get to do the podcast and keep it going. But also I get to meet these people and kind of, you know, bathe in the, the stories that they give me. And it’s, I don’t feel I have never put that pressure on myself.
00:33:22:34 – 00:33:54:26
Paula Allen
I think Podcast Digest was, especially good at that, where I knew Dan, like, we met a few times, and then, he had me on his show, and he was able to really keep it, like, conversational. But he was also, very quickly able to delve into, you know, that he was a fan and that he, you know, was the audience and I and I didn’t know that at the time, and, and finding that out was, you know, kind of cool and, actually scary.
00:33:54:30 – 00:33:54:57
Paula Allen
Applying.
00:33:54:57 – 00:34:17:12
Paula Allen
Weird pressure on being the storyteller. But no, I don’t, I maybe I did in the beginning, I’m like, okay, I have to make sure I get good stuff out of these guys. Because I’m making this show for people who wanted non canned interviews. I knew there was a gap in the market because I lived in that gap.
00:34:17:12 – 00:34:34:09
Paula Allen
I’m like, I don’t give a rat’s ass what they’re going to say, you know, in their interview on MTV or CBC or any of these shows that interview them with the same five questions, I want to know something real about them. I want to know why they do this. I want to know who they are. I want like, a real story.
00:34:34:09 – 00:34:36:42
Paula Allen
And I don’t always get them by my word.
00:34:36:42 – 00:34:47:28
Agent Palmer
I try well, that’s that’s kind of what the podcast medium has become, because anybody with access to anybody, because everybody’s got a story.
00:34:47:28 – 00:34:48:52
Paula Allen
Everyone’s got a story.
00:34:48:58 – 00:34:53:51
Agent Palmer
Wants that authentic ness.
00:34:53:56 – 00:34:54:56
Paula Allen
I think they do.
00:34:55:01 – 00:35:34:17
Agent Palmer
We don’t. You know, I, I put pressure on myself to be the audience because I spent a lot of time before launching this show, being the producer. And yeah, just being super hyper focused on like that, what the missed opportunities are and being the, it’s almost like the, the, after the fact director, like. All right. So so you missed three opportunities for like, obvious follow up questions that you knew because he was your brother, but no one else is going to know what you’re talking about for the next five minutes.
00:35:34:22 – 00:35:34:29
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:35:34:31 – 00:35:43:32
Agent Palmer
And I think it’s only because I had that experience of, like, paying attention to those things that I have that in the back of my head. But God.
00:35:43:32 – 00:35:44:46
Paula Allen
That would be a lot to walk around.
00:35:44:46 – 00:36:13:07
Agent Palmer
With. But I don’t have, you know, as I do more of these, it becomes less and less about that and more and more about just I want to have a good discussion because I, I it’s, I guess it’s a safe space to say this to the people listening to this show. I’m not doing this to make money. No, I don’t ever expect that this will turn into a multi thousand dollar.
00:36:13:11 – 00:36:13:57
Agent Palmer
Like I’m just.
00:36:13:57 – 00:36:14:18
Paula Allen
Yeah, a.
00:36:14:19 – 00:36:15:19
Agent Palmer
Couple thousand.
00:36:15:24 – 00:36:17:35
Paula Allen
Even like just my lips and Bill gets covered. I’m like.
00:36:17:35 – 00:36:19:00
Paula Allen
Whoa.
00:36:19:05 – 00:36:43:54
Agent Palmer
So I don’t expect that. So at the moment I’m doing it for your entertainment, maybe your education maybe to be informative, but it’s gotta be filling to me. I’ve got to get something out of the conversation. It just so happens that a lot of these early episodes have been with people, friends. Yeah. And they’re conversations. You and I haven’t had this conversation, but we’ve had similar.
00:36:43:59 – 00:37:07:21
Paula Allen
We had similar I don’t I took such a different route. I was like, man, like I was backstage at these, you know, music events. Anyways, as you know, and people are telling great stories and I’m like, well, hell, you know, we should be sharing these. And I’m like, how come the, you know, the media on the radio, people aren’t ever back here to capture this and, you know, the band members like, well, because we’d stop talking if they were right.
00:37:07:22 – 00:37:22:31
Agent Palmer
And that’s that’s the key, right? Like you, you don’t like I, I this is so I don’t know if it’s my age or just me, but like, you’re not wearing the fedora with the little press.
00:37:22:35 – 00:37:22:53
Agent Palmer
Like.
00:37:23:08 – 00:37:26:20
Agent Palmer
Badge in the brim, like you’re not.
00:37:26:20 – 00:37:29:24
Paula Allen
And I never want to be.
00:37:29:25 – 00:37:44:30
Agent Palmer
They close up and they like celebrities of any level or public figures of any kind, start to get wary whenever mainstream press is around.
00:37:44:35 – 00:38:24:18
Paula Allen
Yeah, I feel like people in general probably don’t want to make a connection with someone who’s clearly there to gain something. And and that’s true of like some of the more famous people I’ve interviewed. And, you know, some of the less I interview, like the volunteers there, too, and, you know, the staff and like, and the vendors, like, I interview all kinds of people just, you know, to keep the practice going and honestly, I find the same level of, of storytelling ability and sometimes way better than people who aren’t being asked very often.
00:38:24:23 – 00:38:48:19
Paula Allen
But yeah, I feel, I don’t know, I feel like no one’s going to open up if you’re there with a pen and paper and and writing, you know, taking meticulous notes, I don’t think. I mean, I, I’m very interested in human connection. I’m interested in the story and I’m interested in the telling of the story. And you don’t get there when it’s an unequal footing.
00:38:48:24 – 00:39:15:23
Paula Allen
So that is why I built the mobile studio. That is why I made it beautiful and comfortable and inviting. That is why I got a, you know, major beer sponsor. And instead of a candle company, I guess, to try and entice people to find a bit of comfort, solace, a little bit of space where they might actually say something to me that means something not just to me and the audience, but like that means something to them.
00:39:15:27 – 00:39:18:06
Agent Palmer
So I’ve listened to every episode of your show.
00:39:18:11 – 00:39:20:57
Paula Allen
Whoa. Thanks.
00:39:21:02 – 00:39:24:33
Agent Palmer
I mean, I haven’t listened to an episode in a while. Hint, hint.
00:39:24:38 – 00:39:25:06
Paula Allen
I’m aware.
00:39:25:08 – 00:39:29:27
Paula Allen
Oh my God, I just edited one. Right before I couldn’t find my escape.
00:39:29:27 – 00:39:31:48
Paula Allen
That’s for.
00:39:31:53 – 00:39:40:34
Paula Allen
So it’s got an, odd coincidences. The guy came into the cafe today and he’s like, oh, hey. I’m like, oh, hello, I’d better get to steppin. Yeah, so I did.
00:39:40:41 – 00:39:49:34
Agent Palmer
But it occurs to me that for a while, right, you you were, talking to non musicians as well.
00:39:49:39 – 00:39:50:28
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:39:50:33 – 00:39:52:43
Agent Palmer
But you were always talking to creative types.
00:39:52:53 – 00:39:54:00
Paula Allen
Always.
00:39:54:05 – 00:40:10:31
Agent Palmer
Is there. I mean, are there untold stories that you’re just not going to get from creative types or creative quote unquote. Right. Yeah. Is across the gamut. So it’s white collar. It’s blue collar.
00:40:10:31 – 00:40:40:50
Paula Allen
It’s everybody I, I, I don’t know like I think I would find it hard to meet someone who doesn’t have a story. I think because at the base of it, that’s what it is to be a person. However, creative types tend to tell stories better or be able to tell it in a more entertaining way. I’ve certainly had great stories told me that were not arable either.
00:40:40:50 – 00:41:04:40
Paula Allen
They just did not have good diction, or they were drunk, or they were, you know, in, in various different ways, unable to tell the story clearly, but it’s still a stellar story. Those did go to the B-sides, and I did end up airing a bunch of those on Patreon, but I’m sure there’s there’s like an eternity of untold stories that I’ll never get to.
00:41:04:40 – 00:41:10:47
Paula Allen
I’m so lucky to get the ones I do, and I feel so grateful for when it.
00:41:10:47 – 00:41:12:59
Paula Allen
Happens.
00:41:13:04 – 00:41:37:56
Paula Allen
That I try not to press to get more. I really I’m often just very like fulfilled with what they’re willing to give me. And if I feel there’s more there and I can, it’s not like I push. But if I can open a space for them to go into with that story, then I love to do that. But I’m also backstage at a really loud concert and people opening the door and.
00:41:37:56 – 00:41:38:46
Paula Allen
Like.
00:41:38:46 – 00:41:40:38
Paula Allen
You know, it’s hard.
00:41:40:43 – 00:41:54:24
Agent Palmer
So I want to diverge for a moment because your and my story, I don’t know if you remember this. It doesn’t start out necessarily the most amicably.
00:41:54:29 – 00:41:59:09
Paula Allen
No.
00:41:59:13 – 00:42:00:35
Paula Allen
Now, I want to hear you tell it.
00:42:00:46 – 00:42:03:05
Agent Palmer
I don’t know. Well, this is so.
00:42:03:05 – 00:42:05:56
Paula Allen
How did we meet Palmer?
00:42:06:01 – 00:42:11:31
Agent Palmer
We met. In the seven days of Geek Circle.
00:42:11:35 – 00:42:12:19
Paula Allen
Yep.
00:42:12:24 – 00:42:18:15
Agent Palmer
Going into the second pod tober fest.
00:42:18:20 – 00:42:19:02
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:42:19:07 – 00:42:28:41
Agent Palmer
And, Bill and I were there, and Steph were there in the writers room from the year prior.
00:42:28:46 – 00:42:29:33
Paula Allen
Right.
00:42:29:38 – 00:42:38:58
Agent Palmer
And you and Dave and someone else who’s names escaping me.
00:42:39:03 – 00:42:39:12
Paula Allen
The.
00:42:39:12 – 00:42:40:05
Paula Allen
Canadian ringers.
00:42:40:05 – 00:42:49:29
Agent Palmer
There were others got added to the writers room. Right. And Bill and I had a bit of a system.
00:42:49:34 – 00:42:52:18
Paula Allen
Quite a closed system, by the way.
00:42:52:23 – 00:42:55:48
Paula Allen
To the listening audience. If you were not born into.
00:42:55:48 – 00:42:56:42
Paula Allen
This, you.
00:42:56:42 – 00:42:57:59
Paula Allen
Shall not pass.
00:42:57:59 – 00:42:59:54
Paula Allen
This.
00:42:59:58 – 00:43:00:39
Paula Allen
Thank you. Delegate.
00:43:00:46 – 00:43:09:41
Agent Palmer
So, I don’t remember anything other than being like, oh, this isn’t going to work. We can’t have more people.
00:43:09:46 – 00:43:10:38
Paula Allen
Yeah, that’s the.
00:43:10:38 – 00:43:22:30
Paula Allen
Welcome I got. I was asked and asked and asked and asked and asked to do this, by the way, and said no 300 times. And then on the 301st I said yes.
00:43:22:30 – 00:43:33:42
Paula Allen
And then I was like, yeah. And then you asked my everyone, I’m like, what the hell is this? We don’t need more writers. Well, yeah, sorry.
00:43:33:44 – 00:43:39:18
Agent Palmer
Better luck. It was, we were not the most open. I will admit.
00:43:39:22 – 00:43:40:43
Paula Allen
Not at that time.
00:43:40:45 – 00:43:56:09
Agent Palmer
No no no no no no no. But, we, we, in fairness to us, not that we deserve anything, but like, we had been burned a little bit, so that’s fair. We were trying by me. No no no no no.
00:43:56:09 – 00:43:57:05
Paula Allen
But showed up.
00:43:57:19 – 00:44:23:42
Agent Palmer
But we we we were trying to close ranks so we didn’t get burnt again. Yeah. Because the first year it was like four of us creating content for 24 hours. And the second year it was more of us. Yeah, well, you know, Bill and I were still I mean, you know what? It was really, an outsider insider perspective issue.
00:44:23:44 – 00:44:25:43
Agent Palmer
We just didn’t know you.
00:44:25:48 – 00:44:26:35
Paula Allen
Yeah, right.
00:44:26:35 – 00:44:41:26
Agent Palmer
So, I know j the angry ginger was like, asking all these people to be involved, and, like, Bill and I are, like, trying to plan this out, going like we need ideas, not more people.
00:44:41:41 – 00:44:44:32
Paula Allen
But those people were coming with ideas, you fools. You.
00:44:44:37 – 00:44:47:54
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah. Okay. That’s fine.
00:44:47:58 – 00:44:51:50
Paula Allen
However, I don’t think that was explained to you. And I never knew any of this.
00:44:51:59 – 00:45:16:08
Agent Palmer
No, no, we just show it up. It was. It was just kind of like, all right, you know? So there was, that was in the days when, if you were going to have a gathering of podcasters, you got a Twitter chat going right? So it was just like, hey, and here’s Paula. White, who’s Paula?
00:45:16:12 – 00:45:17:26
Paula Allen
That’s so crazy.
00:45:17:26 – 00:45:32:22
Agent Palmer
And then we you were probably in like 1 or 2 of, like the big like Skype gatherings. Yeah. Prior to and you and I did not mix.
00:45:32:27 – 00:45:33:00
Paula Allen
No.
00:45:33:05 – 00:45:37:47
Agent Palmer
But I in hindsight I can say this. It’s because we’re basically the same.
00:45:37:56 – 00:45:41:30
Paula Allen
Yep. I’m like, you guys don’t need me.
00:45:41:30 – 00:45:44:03
Paula Allen
You have all you don’t need.
00:45:44:03 – 00:45:49:12
Paula Allen
Like an editor who also has creative idea. You have that. But yeah.
00:45:49:12 – 00:45:56:37
Agent Palmer
So fast forward because it’s like the rest of it’s a blur until I get in the car with Bill.
00:45:56:42 – 00:45:57:49
Paula Allen
Oh my God.
00:45:57:54 – 00:45:58:44
Agent Palmer
Like, seriously.
00:45:58:44 – 00:46:05:55
Paula Allen
I had like a lot more Skype chats though. We did. You and I had already like gotten to like not a great place.
00:46:05:58 – 00:46:08:18
Agent Palmer
No, we got to a working place.
00:46:08:19 – 00:46:13:22
Paula Allen
A working place. And then I’m like, this is gonna be interesting to meet this guy.
00:46:13:27 – 00:46:14:28
Agent Palmer
Well, and that’s the thing.
00:46:14:28 – 00:46:16:50
Paula Allen
I met you. You’re so adorable. I’m like, oh.
00:46:17:04 – 00:46:17:55
Paula Allen
Oh my God.
00:46:18:04 – 00:46:19:39
Paula Allen
Well, that I loved you instantly.
00:46:19:39 – 00:46:25:37
Agent Palmer
That’s the thing I, I, I, I gave you a hug and like, you’ve been my sister ever.
00:46:25:37 – 00:46:46:52
Paula Allen
Since, right? I was like, it was. It was just so different meeting you. And I feel like that goes back to what you said at the beginning of like, you know, is the story better in real life? It is for me and you because we butted heads a lot in the beginning. You were like team Grant. And I was like, Team Jason.
00:46:46:52 – 00:46:53:21
Paula Allen
And like, I was like, why are there teams? Why? Why have I been asked to join this weird realm?
00:46:53:26 – 00:47:01:38
Agent Palmer
It’s still it’s like, yeah, it’s weird. Like you, you joined an event that had sides.
00:47:01:51 – 00:47:12:40
Paula Allen
Yeah. And I didn’t know. And I had come from, like, I had a workplace like that previously where there were two different sides. And I was like in, you know, thrust one. I’m just like.
00:47:12:40 – 00:47:13:36
Paula Allen
The fuck is that?
00:47:13:36 – 00:47:30:52
Paula Allen
I don’t care what your beefs are with each other. I’m here to be creative and to do some good work. And I think as soon as you and I met in real life, that became obvious to both of us. We’re both here for the same reason, and we both really can mean it.
00:47:31:06 – 00:47:50:47
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s true. It like, that’s that’s the thing. Because I know that in person it just felt like. And I don’t mean to slight anybody, but like it just felt like, you know, producer Palmer earned the title. Like, is it we’re guys. We’re. You missed an ad. We have to do this thing. Like, we have to do this.
00:47:50:47 – 00:48:01:57
Agent Palmer
Like we should be prepping right now, not like, what do we have to do? And I think that being the same people, yeah. You were like, oh, he’s got this covered.
00:48:02:02 – 00:48:18:34
Paula Allen
Yeah. I’m like, he’s good. I don’t know why they need me or what. Like what? What’s up? But I mean, I still brought my wallet. It’s just it’s, Yeah. In the end, it was pitched to me in such a such a different way of like, hey, we need this organized need that, you know, we’d like you to do this.
00:48:18:34 – 00:48:30:41
Paula Allen
We like you do that. And I’m like, okay. Like, I’ll do you know, I can do some of this. I guess I could do, you know, have my own show and it but like, yeah, it was, it was exciting and interesting and.
00:48:30:46 – 00:48:31:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah. But you really.
00:48:31:49 – 00:48:32:34
Paula Allen
Great meeting you.
00:48:32:41 – 00:48:39:15
Agent Palmer
It’s great. I can only imagine, like, after those first couple Skype calls, you were like. Who the fuck are these guys?
00:48:39:19 – 00:48:44:26
Paula Allen
Yeah, yeah. It was some.
00:48:44:28 – 00:48:50:48
Paula Allen
Weird little group, but, Yeah. Still, still fun.
00:48:50:53 – 00:48:55:45
Agent Palmer
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I still regret the fact that we never went for that run.
00:48:55:50 – 00:49:02:24
Paula Allen
I know I was like, let’s go. And you’re like, no, I would like I brought my running gear, man.
00:49:02:29 – 00:49:07:02
Agent Palmer
I did too. I mean, I left my running shoes in the car the entire time, but.
00:49:07:02 – 00:49:09:40
Paula Allen
Yeah, here I am. I feel.
00:49:09:40 – 00:49:12:14
Paula Allen
Like I did go over, did I, for.
00:49:12:19 – 00:49:13:33
Agent Palmer
I don’t know.
00:49:13:38 – 00:49:14:24
Paula Allen
I feel like I did.
00:49:14:26 – 00:49:26:12
Agent Palmer
It’s such like it’s one of those things like that I, that I even remember as much as I do because it was such a blur for those of us that were behind the scenes.
00:49:26:17 – 00:49:27:04
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:49:27:09 – 00:49:28:07
Agent Palmer
00:49:28:12 – 00:49:32:34
Paula Allen
And it was a lot. It was a lot of writing. It was a lot of editing. It was a lot of like posting.
00:49:32:34 – 00:49:33:16
Paula Allen
Posting.
00:49:33:23 – 00:49:34:31
Paula Allen
Yeah, it was a lot.
00:49:34:31 – 00:49:49:13
Agent Palmer
And, you know, you know that because of what you do when you go to a festival and go behind the scenes and start interviewing people for what has to feel like one never ending interview.
00:49:49:18 – 00:50:12:17
Paula Allen
Like, yeah, they it gets like it’s I mean, it’s the big ones three days. So I was pretty used to three day events and this was, you know, not as big, but the personalities were very big. And the history between the personalities was very deep. And I just came in to do a bit of production and a little bit of on air, and that was that was it?
00:50:12:17 – 00:50:17:32
Agent Palmer
Yeah. That’s got to be, I mean, that’s got to be scary.
00:50:17:37 – 00:50:21:11
Paula Allen
Like, yeah, I think it was for Dave too. Yeah. It was. We were really on.
00:50:21:23 – 00:50:25:07
Agent Palmer
The layers on Dave.
00:50:25:12 – 00:50:36:43
Agent Palmer
I mean, I, I think the only benefit I had was I had at that point going back through the archives. So I had heard all the arguments.
00:50:36:48 – 00:50:37:28
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:50:37:33 – 00:50:46:32
Agent Palmer
From the two main hosts. We’ll call them Mom and Dad. So I had heard them all a hundred times before.
00:50:46:46 – 00:50:47:30
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:50:47:35 – 00:50:51:55
Agent Palmer
But it’s probably also the reason I’m not doing that show anymore.
00:50:51:59 – 00:50:53:51
Agent Palmer
Because, like.
00:50:53:56 – 00:50:56:55
Agent Palmer
I was told, I picked aside.
00:50:57:00 – 00:50:57:35
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:50:57:40 – 00:51:09:35
Agent Palmer
I, I don’t know if I did, but I that story was it is inconsequential. The moral of the story is that now I have a sister in Canada named.
00:51:09:42 – 00:51:33:28
Paula Allen
Right. Yeah. It was great. It was so yeah, it was so instant. It was so different. And I got it. I got you instantly and it never came across on Skype. We talked on the phone a bunch of times, never came across that we would actually go. And we have stayed in touch ever since.
00:51:33:28 – 00:52:12:28
Agent Palmer
It’s true, it’s true. I mean, it’s very odd. The that that we needed that. Right? Because, I’ve made some fairly personal, other personal connections, and I’ve met all of them at this point. But the initial conversations and relationships started digitally. Yeah. Because podcasting is not hyperlocal. And if if you’re going to start listening to people, you’re going to start listening to people across the globe or across the country.
00:52:12:33 – 00:52:17:45
Agent Palmer
And I feel like I can point to you as like the one.
00:52:17:49 – 00:52:17:52
Agent Palmer
Who.
00:52:17:53 – 00:52:23:24
Agent Palmer
Was like, yeah, it’s just it just wasn’t a good digital relationship until after we met.
00:52:23:29 – 00:52:45:09
Paula Allen
But ours didn’t start organically, though, like, had I just found you somehow in the Twitter sphere and we started talking, there would have been a reason. And had we met through any other circumstance, I don’t think you would have been like initial animosity, because I can’t find any other example in my life either or that has been the case.
00:52:45:09 – 00:52:47:32
Agent Palmer
It is a very interesting story.
00:52:47:37 – 00:52:53:57
Paula Allen
Yet it’s so weird. And then the second we met, we’re like, oh, oh, you’re just great. Yeah.
00:52:54:02 – 00:53:01:12
Agent Palmer
I mean, since then, right? Like you were one of the biggest proponents for this show before it was even a thing.
00:53:01:17 – 00:53:15:24
Paula Allen
Yeah. I was like, let’s just do it. Just do it already. You basically have like an entire, you know, ten episodes in the can. You just need to talk to everybody, you know. Which you are.
00:53:15:29 – 00:53:21:02
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know why, but you’re one of the few people I ever offered to edit a show for.
00:53:21:07 – 00:53:22:23
Paula Allen
I know.
00:53:22:28 – 00:53:23:35
Paula Allen
Wolf.
00:53:23:40 – 00:53:32:04
Paula Allen
And honestly, like, I almost took you. You’re the closest I ever came to taking someone up on editing my show. And I feel like I did send a couple things to you.
00:53:32:04 – 00:53:33:14
Agent Palmer
You did? Yeah.
00:53:33:19 – 00:53:44:24
Paula Allen
Yeah, I’ve never, I never have I sent to anyone else. So there you go. Right there. I mean, like Alyssa, for sure, but that’s, you know, we write together, so a little different, but.
00:53:44:39 – 00:53:51:53
Agent Palmer
And, and I like I, I was happy to see you kind of relaunch a blog for half a second.
00:53:51:58 – 00:53:57:46
Paula Allen
I know. Right. So many people signed up. I feel so bad I.
00:53:57:46 – 00:54:01:24
Paula Allen
Should send them the link to, like, my other blogs. I’m like, well, here’s a whole bunch of backstory.
00:54:01:27 – 00:54:01:49
Paula Allen
You have.
00:54:01:49 – 00:54:02:58
Paula Allen
This.
00:54:03:02 – 00:54:07:06
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s, Yeah, it we’re basically just kindred spirits.
00:54:07:11 – 00:54:22:59
Paula Allen
I feel like we are like, in so many of our creative pursuits in particular, and we’re both like kind of introverted extroverts. I’ve seen you be like, mostly introverted, but in in so many ways extroverted. And everyone thinks I’m an extrovert until they meet.
00:54:22:59 – 00:54:31:50
Agent Palmer
Me, I can fake it so well. Like I’m an introvert, but like, I can fake extrovert when I need to.
00:54:31:55 – 00:54:46:41
Paula Allen
I can too, but I mean, I, I’m definitely yeah, I can only like be on for so long and then I need absolute. But I mean I meditate, so fair enough I need absolute silence. Yeah. Like a good portion of the day.
00:54:46:45 – 00:54:52:44
Agent Palmer
I won’t say it’s truly like Cinderella. Like at midnight I turned into a pumpkin. Right.
00:54:52:44 – 00:54:53:42
Agent Palmer
But like.
00:54:53:47 – 00:55:00:02
Agent Palmer
I so I can work a room. Yeah, I usually only do it if I have to.
00:55:00:07 – 00:55:00:30
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:55:00:43 – 00:55:08:31
Agent Palmer
And if given the choice, I will find the three people I’m most comfortable with and hang out with them for the entire evening.
00:55:08:36 – 00:55:09:10
Paula Allen
00:55:09:15 – 00:55:14:47
Agent Palmer
And then I need to be, I don’t know, we’ll say home.
00:55:14:51 – 00:55:16:09
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:55:16:14 – 00:55:29:25
Agent Palmer
To decompress. I don’t meditate. Yeah. You’ve told me many times I should, I don’t, you should. But instead of that, I come home and I, I, I do other forms of meditation. Right. Like, I just veg and listen to music and stuff.
00:55:29:31 – 00:55:53:05
Paula Allen
You could do the actual meditation too. I’m just saying I’m going to keep pushing it forever until you try it. Yeah, I it’s so funny. Like, I think the truest mark of an introvert is someone who really does want to be alone. And when I did, like tons of public speaking and, you know, a lot of basically live podcasts, we just weren’t podcasting yet.
00:55:53:10 – 00:56:15:26
Paula Allen
I was alone on stage with all of them. And, like, the surest way to be alone is to go up in front of a crowd. There’s no one up there. No one’s talking to you. I mean, hecklers, sure, but it isn’t. I don’t know, I find it I’m that type of introvert extrovert. I’m like, I can talk to a crowd of 300.
00:56:15:31 – 00:56:18:19
Paula Allen
I’m not so happy. In a crowd of three.
00:56:18:24 – 00:56:18:54
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s.
00:56:19:07 – 00:56:25:28
Paula Allen
Hard. Yeah, it’s harder. And then one on one. My favorite. I love it always. I will always choose that first.
00:56:25:28 – 00:56:55:54
Agent Palmer
Oh, what I want. Great. I mean, I, I feel like I’m. You got to tell me if this is true for you. I have found that in party situations, when I find somebody to have a conversation with, I can make anyone else who shows up feel awkward just because I’m always going to be able to engage that one person, somebody comes up, says hi, and I’m like, yeah, but about that thing like, and I can keep somebody talking.
00:56:55:59 – 00:57:02:58
Agent Palmer
Yeah, well, you know, person three over here is just like, all right, I’m going to I’m going to go away.
00:57:03:03 – 00:57:17:46
Paula Allen
See, I feel too much for the person that comes up and feels rejected. I’m like, we can include you, too. Unless they try to filibuster the evening. And then I just quietly back away. Is that prosecco? I’ve got to.
00:57:17:46 – 00:57:19:20
Paula Allen
Go.
00:57:19:25 – 00:57:28:37
Agent Palmer
Oh, yeah. I’m. I’m definitely feeling like I need to get some more crackers. Like. I mean, that’s the one thing I will say about parties.
00:57:28:42 – 00:57:29:15
Paula Allen
Yeah.
00:57:29:20 – 00:57:31:37
Agent Palmer
You’re never at a loss for an excuse.
00:57:31:42 – 00:57:41:53
Paula Allen
No, it’s true. And honestly, it’s such a great gathering place for stories. That’s what people are there to do. That’s what a party is. It’s a chance to tell your stories to some new faces.
00:57:42:06 – 00:57:48:30
Agent Palmer
This is true. Although I will say there is something to be said for old stories and old places.
00:57:48:34 – 00:57:49:33
Paula Allen
Ooh.
00:57:49:37 – 00:58:01:50
Agent Palmer
Yeah, that made sense. So, this past year or this year, I guess American Thanksgiving. I’ll, I’ll, you know, this is an international show, so I’ll be and you know.
00:58:01:55 – 00:58:03:51
Paula Allen
Giving so long ago.
00:58:04:02 – 00:58:11:05
Paula Allen
You guys bumpers right against Christmas. What do people do? They just, like, fly there, fly home and fly right back. I don’t understand how it gets.
00:58:11:10 – 00:58:14:20
Agent Palmer
Usually it’s like one family and then the other.
00:58:14:24 – 00:58:15:18
Paula Allen
Kind of do, really.
00:58:15:18 – 00:58:18:17
Paula Allen
One gets. Oh, that’s such usually.
00:58:18:22 – 00:58:44:18
Agent Palmer
So I postponed hosting Thanksgiving because my parents have a thing they do, and one of my best friends has a thing he does. So we hosted on Friday and everybody knows everybody. We all pretty much hang out together, like, my parents are local and my, my, my friend just moved literally a stone’s throw away from my house.
00:58:44:23 – 00:59:17:00
Agent Palmer
Okay, so we’re all sitting around and basically just retelling old stories. I mean, there was there were no new stories. And there is something to be said for our own oral histories. Yeah. Because, well, first of all, there are stories that our mothers will tell that none of us will about us. Yes, that’s just a fact. And you are a mother, so you are probably starting to procure those stories.
00:59:17:04 – 00:59:22:52
Paula Allen
Oh my God, I have so many. She’s so amazing. I was like, the funniest kid on the planet is so great.
00:59:22:53 – 00:59:29:31
Agent Palmer
So you’re just waiting stories. So you’re just waiting for, like, the first boyfriend to show up or like.
00:59:29:31 – 00:59:30:20
Paula Allen
Girlfriend.
00:59:30:25 – 00:59:42:04
Agent Palmer
Or girlfriend or best friend or what? Yeah. You’re waiting for a someone tied to your daughter that you don’t know that you can be like. Have I got a story for you?
00:59:42:06 – 01:00:05:53
Paula Allen
Yeah. Oh, I like telling stories. She really loves hearing stories of herself from when she was younger. She doesn’t remember as a weird part of being a parent. And one day, you may find out that the first three years where you’re completely engaged with this human nearly 24 hours a day, certainly, you know, as like, I’m a pretty involved parent.
01:00:05:57 – 01:00:26:11
Paula Allen
They don’t remember any of it. And I’m like, well, we did outdoor school, and, you know, we camped on the island and like, we hiked here and we did. And she’s like, I don’t remember any of I’m like, well, I’ve got a story for you. And she finds it endlessly entertaining. And she now tells those stories from a first person perspective.
01:00:26:20 – 01:00:32:27
Paula Allen
And I know she has no memory of those things. All right. But in telling our stories, we learn ourselves ever better.
01:00:32:27 – 01:00:37:35
Agent Palmer
And how how is she at retelling your stories?
01:00:37:40 – 01:00:39:05
Paula Allen
She’s better than me.
01:00:39:10 – 01:00:40:29
Agent Palmer
Really?
01:00:40:34 – 01:01:07:43
Paula Allen
Already? She is the best storyteller I have ever met. I could not have scientifically created a better, more natural, funny. She’s just. Yeah, it’s not just the humor, it’s how funny she finds other people and other things. In such a kind way. She’s, the most natural storyteller I’ve met. And I have a family just lit up with storytellers.
01:01:07:56 – 01:01:14:20
Paula Allen
If you think I’m high energy, you should come to Thanksgiving in Canada because it’s pretty serious.
01:01:14:24 – 01:01:18:40
Agent Palmer
So is there. Does your daughter have the timing down to.
01:01:18:45 – 01:01:19:43
Paula Allen
Better than me? Yeah.
01:01:19:45 – 01:01:21:02
Agent Palmer
Really?
01:01:21:07 – 01:01:50:35
Paula Allen
Yeah. And she’s only seven. It’s really crazy. I’m like, what is she going to be like as a teenager? I feel like, no, I feel like she’s going to be the same. Only better. Like she I with every year has been my favorite year with her. Every year she’s more developed her herself, her sense of self and her sense of humor comes through stronger and but not, you know, in a louder way, just in a, a better way.
01:01:50:35 – 01:02:01:39
Paula Allen
It’s she’s just. Yeah, watching kids develop their sense of self is it’s just such a humbling experience of, of personhood. It’s outstanding.
01:02:01:44 – 01:02:02:29
Agent Palmer
Is highly.
01:02:02:29 – 01:02:03:10
Paula Allen
Recommended.
01:02:03:23 – 01:02:09:27
Agent Palmer
Is that the, is you watching her, like, the ultimate story for you?
01:02:09:31 – 01:02:30:09
Paula Allen
Oh, I think yeah. I mean, it’s so funny because it’s so easy to get. She’s so much more interesting than me. I feel like it’s so easy to get caught up in that. And the, you know, the the absolute love affair that you have as a parent for your child is, is all encompassing and and eclipsing in a lot of ways.
01:02:30:14 – 01:02:57:03
Paula Allen
But, you know, she’s already at that stage where like, hey, I’d like to have a friend over this weekend and. Okay, and then all of a sudden it’s every weekend and then sleepovers have started and I see her, you know, ebbing out into the world, not away, just out more and then, you know, and then back. And I think getting to witness the the beautiful story that is going to be hers is, is such a huge part of mine.
01:02:57:03 – 01:03:14:14
Paula Allen
It it highlights some of the best of mine. But it isn’t isn’t all of it. I’m still a whole person. I still have tons of my own stuff to do and stories to tell and live and be. But where we share stories and where ours align are just deeper and better.
01:03:14:19 – 01:03:23:44
Agent Palmer
So, I mean, it begs one question, like you truly does, which is when is she going to be on the Tell Me Stories podcast?
01:03:23:49 – 01:03:27:18
Paula Allen
She has so many stories recorded.
01:03:27:23 – 01:03:33:13
Paula Allen
I could have my own second show, like If Lives and Let You Do That.
01:03:33:17 – 01:03:33:24
Paula Allen
Where.
01:03:33:26 – 01:03:52:53
Paula Allen
You didn’t have to, like, pay all over again, I would fully have like she she does. My tagline better than me. She does the, you know, my audio bite better than me. She doesn’t listen to the interviews that I do. She really what? Like for Carly Rae Jepsen? She really wanted to be in the room, but otherwise she could care less.
01:03:52:53 – 01:03:57:03
Paula Allen
Unless it’s Shawn Mander. She doesn’t care who I’m talking to. And I will never get to interview Shannon.
01:03:57:03 – 01:04:00:00
Agent Palmer
That’s so.
01:04:00:05 – 01:04:20:35
Paula Allen
Yeah, she’s she’s pretty into it, and she. She holds the mic. Right. Do. It’s just so funny. I mean, she’s seen me do it a thousand times, and she’s been such a great supporter and, you know, helps with this set up and tear down at the festivals. It’s so great. She’ll probably have her own show and it will do way better than mine.
01:04:20:35 – 01:04:29:29
Paula Allen
And I can’t wait. When, Well, here’s a thank you. This is such a weird part of being a parent, is I want her all to myself.
01:04:29:29 – 01:04:33:41
Paula Allen
Because I’m so selfish. And.
01:04:33:46 – 01:04:37:15
Paula Allen
But, like, one of her friends has her own YouTube channel.
01:04:37:20 – 01:04:41:05
Agent Palmer
Though, and it’s they start. So like.
01:04:41:10 – 01:04:41:59
Paula Allen
Yeah, they’re seven.
01:04:42:01 – 01:04:52:50
Agent Palmer
The friends I have with kids. You to it’s YouTube, so you should be thankful that your daughter would if if she ends up on a podcast.
01:04:52:55 – 01:04:53:51
Paula Allen
You should be like.
01:04:53:56 – 01:04:59:03
Agent Palmer
Thank you. Like, it’s because it’s got to be 100 times easier for a parent.
01:04:59:07 – 01:05:01:23
Paula Allen
Yeah. To it’s a much lesser evil.
01:05:01:28 – 01:05:02:20
Agent Palmer
Oh, yes.
01:05:02:25 – 01:05:23:23
Paula Allen
I mean and I don’t understand like what they could be doing that’s even of interest to each other. But they’re just playing with like their American Girl dolls. I’m like, well, you’re Canadian, but okay. And and that’s it. That’s the whole show. I’m like, oh, this is the thing. And then, you know, you hear about like, people paying money to buy a ticket to sit in a theater, to watch somebody in a different country play a video game.
01:05:23:27 – 01:05:32:40
Paula Allen
And I’m like, are we living the fourth wall? What are we doing? What how is this entertainment to people? And yet it is so.
01:05:32:49 – 01:05:44:02
Agent Palmer
Well, so I will I will defend the only thing I know or and I only know some personalities on it. Right. But I watch Twitch occasionally.
01:05:44:06 – 01:05:44:39
Paula Allen
Yeah.
01:05:44:44 – 01:05:52:16
Agent Palmer
And Twitch is a platform basically, if you’re not familiar, it’s where people play video. You watch people play video games.
01:05:52:21 – 01:05:53:12
Paula Allen
Right?
01:05:53:17 – 01:06:05:49
Agent Palmer
However, the good performers and that’s what they are aren’t necessarily good at playing the game. They’re good at storytelling and entertaining.
01:06:05:54 – 01:06:06:40
Paula Allen
Really?
01:06:06:40 – 01:06:38:12
Agent Palmer
Yeah. So the personality and I don’t want to call anybody out because I, I, you know, I, I’m, I’m only like on the periphery because Twitch kind of intrigues me as a platform. Like what’s going on there. How does the, you know, but the, the, the personalities I’ve found and that’s what they are, are really engaging. And whether it’s with their chat or without their chat, they’re telling stories, they’re explaining what’s going on in the game.
01:06:38:12 – 01:06:42:53
Agent Palmer
But the most of the ones that I find myself like returning to.
01:06:42:58 – 01:06:43:35
Paula Allen
Yeah.
01:06:43:39 – 01:06:46:55
Agent Palmer
Talk about things completely unrelated to the game.
01:06:47:06 – 01:06:47:51
Agent Palmer
It’s like, oh.
01:06:48:00 – 01:07:11:18
Agent Palmer
Somebody asked me a question in chat about what do I do when I finish college? And then for the next 15 minutes, we’re regaled with, like, his story of leaving college and like what the real world is really like. And it’s just kind of like a podcast where the guest is a chat room and you watch you play a video game while it happens.
01:07:11:23 – 01:07:25:30
Agent Palmer
So I can see in some ways how video in that regard works. But again, it’s just it’s literally just another platform for storytelling. I mean, maybe some people are watching the games, but like for sure.
01:07:25:30 – 01:07:43:43
Paula Allen
But I never knew. I have never known that side. I never would look, but I never knew that side of it. But it stands. It stands to reason that, I mean, like a lot of my audience base, which like sage advice from Agent Palmer, talk about yourself more because I wasn’t in the beginning and you did push that, like fairly early on.
01:07:43:43 – 01:08:06:50
Paula Allen
And, you know, I started sprinkling it in and then what, what people wrote to me more about and the response I got, you know, was was much stronger and higher. And my numbers went up as soon as, you know, people knew a bit more about me and saw a bit more about my life. They really tuned in at a much higher rate and a much more consistent rate.
01:08:06:55 – 01:08:22:44
Paula Allen
Even when they didn’t know the band, they stayed because they found me entertaining, which is like hilarious to me. But, you know, awesome and, you know, gets you the downloads you need to keep the roof over your tiny podcast studio.
01:08:22:59 – 01:08:24:00
Agent Palmer
Well, don’t forget, it.
01:08:24:00 – 01:08:24:52
Paula Allen
Stands to reason.
01:08:24:57 – 01:08:32:24
Agent Palmer
Your podcast. Just like my podcast, as hosts, we’re the only consistent thing.
01:08:32:29 – 01:08:35:56
Paula Allen
Oh yeah. True story. That’s it. I think I have a consistent theme.
01:08:35:56 – 01:08:37:04
Agent Palmer
You have a consistent theme.
01:08:37:04 – 01:08:39:05
Paula Allen
Indie music in Canada.
01:08:39:10 – 01:08:44:03
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s, you know, for that audience, it seems like.
01:08:44:08 – 01:08:44:28
Paula Allen
For that.
01:08:44:28 – 01:08:45:20
Paula Allen
Niche audience right.
01:08:45:20 – 01:08:46:21
Paula Allen
There,
01:08:46:26 – 01:08:48:09
Paula Allen
Like my sister and one friend.
01:08:48:22 – 01:08:48:34
Paula Allen
But.
01:08:48:35 – 01:08:50:57
Agent Palmer
They but they’re going to come back for you.
01:08:51:02 – 01:09:14:42
Paula Allen
Yeah. And they have, which is great. And fair enough. Like, I know how to tell a story and I really enjoy telling it. And I think that’s maybe the difference is I love telling stories and hopefully the people I have on this show love telling stories, and if not, I tell them a story and then that helps them tell their story.
01:09:14:42 – 01:09:35:59
Paula Allen
So it kind of is a means to an end to try to get, you know, I really great one out of them. I often have to share my own stuff with them. And it works. It’s nice. There’s really great reciprocity in storytelling. It’s not just, you know, one woman show. It’s, you have to have an audience.
01:09:35:59 – 01:09:40:50
Paula Allen
And most storytellers are looking for an audience. It’s great to be one.
01:09:40:50 – 01:09:53:30
Agent Palmer
I mean, I’ve said this before on this show, but I’ve always found it more helpful for other people when I’m on Skype and they’re recording solo.
01:09:53:35 – 01:09:54:18
01:09:54:23 – 01:10:00:40
Agent Palmer
I can tell the difference between episodes that were recorded without me as the silent audience.
01:10:00:44 – 01:10:01:50
Paula Allen
Yeah.
01:10:01:55 – 01:10:12:43
Agent Palmer
You know, when they’re basically just talking into GarageBand or audacity or whatever thing they’re using? Yeah. Versus them recording into the same thing. But looking at me.
01:10:12:47 – 01:10:14:05
Paula Allen
That’s interesting.
01:10:14:10 – 01:10:14:41
Agent Palmer
Because.
01:10:14:41 – 01:10:15:33
Paula Allen
Interesting.
01:10:15:33 – 01:10:20:07
Agent Palmer
I don’t have to say anything. I just have to be there.
01:10:20:11 – 01:10:23:06
Paula Allen
And that’s really cool. I never thought about that.
01:10:23:06 – 01:10:39:35
Agent Palmer
And and it’s one of the things that listen, not every it’s not a requirement for everybody because like, I think my intros and outros are pretty good, but I’m sure they’d be better if I was looking at someone instead of talking to my screen.
01:10:39:44 – 01:10:41:19
Paula Allen
I mean, you’d, you’d think.
01:10:41:21 – 01:10:42:22
Agent Palmer
Stands to reason.
01:10:42:22 – 01:11:02:40
Paula Allen
But it does. Yeah. That’s right. Because when I do, my explanations of the shows and like intros and outros and that type of stuff, it’s really just to get it done. Like it’s because I have to I have to thank my sponsors. I have to like, you know, tell them where to find me. Everyone knows where to find me, but like, I have to do those things.
01:11:02:40 – 01:11:05:32
Agent Palmer
Come on, Paula, it’s always somebody first.
01:11:05:37 – 01:11:07:35
Paula Allen
Yeah, I know.
01:11:07:40 – 01:11:31:22
Paula Allen
Please go to WW. It’s really, it’s interesting to think, like, especially for the ones where I talk about, the experience of my being with the band like that, to me, is like a diary entry where I, I would never be able if someone was, you know, on the Skype screen, I wouldn’t be able to to do it in the same way.
01:11:31:24 – 01:11:58:03
Paula Allen
Maybe I would do it way better. That’s just opened a whole junket of possibility for me. But as it is, it’s a diary entry for me and I discuss, you know, what my experience was like. And, when I did like basically anthropological ethnographies during my university years, the, the lowest grade I ever got was when I wrote, and ethnography on my sister.
01:11:58:08 – 01:12:31:02
Paula Allen
And I, was a very, very staunch academic. Think I did well in school because I accepted nothing less than doing well in school. And for me, a B plus was like, you might as well just, like, kicked me out of school. It was the lowest grade I ever got and I was devastated. And it was from my favorite professor and I, you know, and I had done like a beautiful presentation of it as well.
01:12:31:02 – 01:12:55:29
Paula Allen
And it was a medical ethnography because, my sisters, you know, in medical books and like all kinds of, you know, exciting jazz and, she’s defied all odds. And I live to tell the tale and, it’s. Yeah, it’s been hell on earth, and it’s a huge part of my story. Is her story. And I went to my professor and I said, what the hell happened?
01:12:55:33 – 01:12:56:24
Paula Allen
And he said.
01:12:56:24 – 01:13:14:33
Paula Allen
It right back to me. He’s like, yeah, huge part of her story is your story, and you’re nowhere in here. And I had left myself out of the story completely. He’s like, do you not think that your sister may have collided with you at some point in her life? And in the writing of this ethnography, you sat down with her 100.
01:13:14:33 – 01:13:16:13
Paula Allen
Times.
01:13:16:18 – 01:13:25:56
Paula Allen
Here. No. Where in here. And you have to be. That is what an ethnography is. That is what storytelling is. It is the exchange.
01:13:26:00 – 01:13:52:11
Agent Palmer
So I will give you a story like another story, which is one of the things I’ve noticed in listening back to my intros and outros. Yeah, is I have see, I seem to have picked up a little something from one specific place. I seem to be sermonizing a bit in my intros and outros.
01:13:52:16 – 01:13:53:22
Paula Allen
So easy to do.
01:13:53:24 – 01:14:03:56
Agent Palmer
It’s, I don’t know, like, listen. So I’m a relaxed Jew. Reformist a bit. Still.
01:14:04:00 – 01:14:05:51
Paula Allen
I like it, I like it.
01:14:05:56 – 01:14:35:27
Agent Palmer
But when I was, younger, in my formidable years and I was, you know, fairly regularly going, there was, there was a rabbi who made an impression on me. And one of the things he made an impression on me with is his sermons, which I guess I picked up a little bit because, like, listening back, I’m like, and here’s the turn and here’s the moral, like it’s, there, there are just it’s just the way it is.
01:14:35:27 – 01:14:45:23
Agent Palmer
And I, I mean, there is a part of me that for a moment in time, half a moment considered being a rabbi.
01:14:45:27 – 01:14:46:25
Paula Allen
Wow.
01:14:46:39 – 01:14:58:37
Agent Palmer
But I could never get a handle on Hebrew, so that was never going to happen. Because you can’t you can’t make it. You can’t make a living writing sermons for other people.
01:14:58:42 – 01:14:59:20
Paula Allen
Not so much.
01:14:59:29 – 01:15:03:45
Agent Palmer
But if anybody out there wants to give me a job doing it, I’m sure I can.
01:15:04:38 – 01:15:06:03
Paula Allen
I am available.
01:15:06:08 – 01:15:33:30
Agent Palmer
I am available, but it’s just one of those unique things that I picked up. Yeah. Somewhere like obvious. I know where I picked it up, but just. Yeah, that I picked it up, like, and and now here it is showing itself like. All right I am on the other side of that is being able to when I edit these episodes, go through and find the common theme because, well, I start out with a topic, a starting point.
01:15:33:35 – 01:15:47:28
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I never dictate the end. So I have to listen to a live conversation and pick out where it went and what you know. And a lot of them have stayed on topic, but not all of them do.
01:15:47:33 – 01:15:48:37
Paula Allen
And for sure.
01:15:48:42 – 01:16:09:32
Agent Palmer
That’s basically what not just rabbis, but priests do. They read a section of a text and then they figure out how to make it current? Yeah. I mean, I don’t I’m not, I’m not I’m just trying to relate the conversation to the audience in a simpler way and then sum it up nicely at the end.
01:16:09:37 – 01:16:14:18
Paula Allen
Ooh, I think that’s all they’re doing anyways. Just in Hebrew.
01:16:14:23 – 01:16:16:51
Agent Palmer
That’s that. That’s for.
01:16:16:55 – 01:16:17:03
Agent Palmer
I.
01:16:17:03 – 01:16:19:14
Agent Palmer
Mean, I’m glad I didn’t become a rabbi.
01:16:19:21 – 01:16:28:21
Paula Allen
I mean, yeah, it one never knows what the future holds. You could be like I podcasting rabbi.
01:16:28:26 – 01:16:33:27
Agent Palmer
Well, that’s a thought that’s kind of fester.
01:16:33:32 – 01:16:35:56
Paula Allen
You have to be a practicing Jew then, I think.
01:16:36:01 – 01:16:37:56
Agent Palmer
Well, more than a relaxed one.
01:16:37:56 – 01:16:47:39
Paula Allen
Yeah, I, I would say. That’s really. Well, let me know if you do. I will attend a lecture. Is that what it’s called? What’s it called?
01:16:47:44 – 01:16:48:12
Agent Palmer
A serve.
01:16:48:13 – 01:16:49:55
Paula Allen
Sermon. A service would be.
01:16:49:55 – 01:16:50:40
Agent Palmer
A service.
01:16:50:49 – 01:16:51:20
Paula Allen
Service.
01:16:51:20 – 01:16:52:59
Agent Palmer
I’d have to put something together.
01:16:53:04 – 01:16:55:23
Paula Allen
God I mean literally.
01:16:55:28 – 01:17:04:48
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:17:04:53 – 01:17:28:17
Agent Palmer
So process, which was a part of episode one, blogging, which was a part of episode two, podcasting, which was episode three, all play a part in this episode for that matter. So is art and artistry covered well in episode seven and eight history, which we covered in episode five, so we only missed out on touching on every previous episode by not talking about careers.
01:17:28:17 – 01:17:51:45
Agent Palmer
But Karl’s episode was basically just one giant story, so that would include episode six, and Margot and I tell some fun stories about our youth on episode four. So we’ve covered all the previous episodes in some way, and there was no doubt about that, because, as Paula said, and I agree with her, storytelling is important. It’s part of who we are.
01:17:51:45 – 01:18:22:14
Agent Palmer
And as a podcaster and blogger, it is basically what I do. And while the beginning of this intro was a little self-serving, I’ll admit it was also not hard to make those lines of connection between this episode and the nine that have come before it of this podcast, before it even existed. I once wrote, this podcast is about knowledge, gaining it and sharing it through discussion and debate, and there is no better way to share that knowledge than through storytelling.
01:18:22:25 – 01:18:45:59
Agent Palmer
That’s it. Period. The end. But storytellers are different. As I mentioned during the episode, I wrote a piece of fiction recently, though still a while ago, that was titled The Death of a storyteller. I’ve talked about it before. I’m proud of that story. I am happy to say that Dan Lizette did an amazing narration on it, and I did my best to create a video that supports it.
01:18:46:03 – 01:19:11:52
Agent Palmer
That story is about the loss of a grandfather, but is also the loss of a storyteller, which is like losing not just one book, but volumes and volumes of them. And as Paula glowingly talked about her daughter, storytellers don’t just come in the form of our elders. Storytellers are everyone. We do it all the time, but what we don’t all do is create something with those stories.
01:19:12:04 – 01:19:39:23
Agent Palmer
That is what separates the creative types from everyone else. Which leads me back to Paula. The thing about Paula and I being two peas in a creative pod is that, in my experience, creatives just find each other. Maybe it wouldn’t have been Paula, but I’m sincerely glad it was. Episode Nine’s guest, Jason Zapata, and I go back to high school sharing our poetry and creative works, and while we both took different paths, we haven’t given up on our creative pursuits.
01:19:39:28 – 01:20:14:20
Agent Palmer
I found Kristin Maier, guest two, and Bill Sweeney guest one through online communities and with the two of them, I’m basically thickest and they two are creatives. The friends we keep are as important as the things we do. And looking back at my origin story with Paula and the fact that I have planned some origin stories and guests upcoming here on the podcast as well, it’s interesting to look back and see where I came from and what I’ve become, because this is episode ten, it’s a round number and we as podcasters and humans like round numbers.
01:20:14:24 – 01:20:39:36
Agent Palmer
I have reflected a bit ten isn’t necessarily the milestone I’m willing to share is a triumph, but it is a fairly good sample size for me to finally ask for ratings and reviews. So if this is your first episode and you’re listening because of Paula, you should hopefully be able to find two other shows of the other nine that might interest you, which would allow you to take the three episode challenge and see what you think of this show.
01:20:39:40 – 01:21:00:43
Agent Palmer
If you’ve been listening the whole time. Thank you. I’m flattered, and I really do want to know what you think. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode ten. As a reminder, all links are available in the show notes. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion.
01:21:00:50 – 01:21:22:18
Agent Palmer
Let me know what you think. As I just asked, you can tweet the podcast at the Palmer Files, myself at Agent Palmer, and reach this week’s guest, Paula Allen, at Stories Underscore podcast and her website, Tell Me Stories podcast. Dot com. The show email is The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And don’t forget to visit Agent palmer.com to see what I’ve got going on.
01:21:22:23 – 01:21:42:26
Agent Palmer
You can also hear more of me in the meantime on our liner notes, a musical conversation podcast with host Chris Maier and my other gig as co-host of the podcast digest with Dan Lizette.
01:21:42:31 – 01:21:50:23
Paula Allen
You.
01:21:50:28 – 01:22:08:25
Paula Allen
See?
01:22:08:30 – 01:22:14:29
Paula Allen
Me.
01:22:14:33 – 01:22:14:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:22:14:57 – 01:22:17:40
Paula Allen
I’m pretty sure I have two questions.
01:22:17:40 – 01:22:19:13
Agent Palmer
I’ll give you two.
01:22:19:18 – 01:22:25:11
Paula Allen
Okay. All right, all right. Are you reading fiction and nonfiction right now?
01:22:25:15 – 01:22:26:02
Agent Palmer
Right now?
01:22:26:17 – 01:22:26:36
Paula Allen
Yeah.
01:22:26:42 – 01:22:27:47
Agent Palmer
Fiction.
01:22:27:52 – 01:22:30:38
Paula Allen
Fiction? Yeah. Interesting. What are you reading?
01:22:30:43 – 01:22:34:33
Agent Palmer
I’m reading. Goodbye, Mickey Mouse by Len Dayton.
01:22:34:38 – 01:22:36:55
Paula Allen
Ooh. How is it?
01:22:37:00 – 01:22:47:26
Agent Palmer
It is probably the most. So I’ve been reading through Len Dayton’s bibliography because of my brand, right?
01:22:47:26 – 01:22:47:59
Paula Allen
Oh, yeah.
01:22:47:59 – 01:23:05:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, I sold Palmer from the final movie, and I was like, well, I should read the book. And I fell in love with it. And I’ve been reading through and he did a lot of nonfiction about World War Two. Yeah. And this is a fiction about World War two.
01:23:05:56 – 01:23:06:42
Paula Allen
Ooh.
01:23:06:44 – 01:23:32:50
Agent Palmer
But the thing that makes you well written, he’s written, realistic fiction about World War Two as well. Yeah. But this one in particular, there’s a romance in the beginning of it that’s probably one of the best romances. That, or maybe the only romance that’s really been in one of his, you know, and I’m very worried for this relationship because it’s the beginning of, you know, like the one, the one American just got there and.
01:23:32:50 – 01:23:42:19
Agent Palmer
Yeah, you know, I’m very worried. While he’s the lead, I don’t know, maybe he’ll die. I don’t it’s with some war, you know, he’s a fighter pilot. There’s there’s never any guarantees.
01:23:42:20 – 01:23:43:56
Paula Allen
I mean, the odds are.
01:23:44:01 – 01:24:02:05
Agent Palmer
But I just it’s one. I don’t know what it is. It could be that I’ve already kind of slogged through the nonfiction of World War Two that I was like, well, I, I set my sights to finish, to read everything he wrote. I’m going to do it in the order he wrote it in, and I’m not going to just cut corners.
01:24:02:05 – 01:24:20:53
Agent Palmer
So I read a lot on World War two that I otherwise wouldn’t have. So yeah, I have the base of knowledge that I know he already knows because he wrote those books like I’m reading them in the order they were published. But there’s just something about this book that it’s like, I, I don’t know, like it’s more engaging to me.
01:24:21:07 – 01:24:32:47
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know if it would have been. I think part of it is the journey. Right. So all the other World War Two things. Yeah. So I know how factually accurate he’s been.
01:24:32:52 – 01:24:35:23
Paula Allen
I think that adds a depth and a nuance, though.
01:24:35:34 – 01:24:46:33
Agent Palmer
It does. But there’s also these but these characters who are basically struggling for survival in World War II, who bombed out Britain.
01:24:46:38 – 01:24:47:32
Paula Allen
Well.
01:24:47:37 – 01:24:54:20
Agent Palmer
It’s different than some of the the other spy fiction of his that I’ve read.
01:24:54:25 – 01:24:55:56
Paula Allen
Very cool.
01:24:56:00 – 01:24:56:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:24:56:56 – 01:25:06:33
Paula Allen
Very cool. That does that. That sounds really worthwhile, actually. Taking notes. Taking notes. What is final question.
01:25:06:39 – 01:25:07:24
Agent Palmer
Sure.
01:25:07:29 – 01:25:09:25
Paula Allen
What is at the top of your playlist?
01:25:09:30 – 01:25:25:59
Agent Palmer
What is at the top of my playlist at the moment? A lot of Canadian bands. Yeah, and it’s not because I’m talking to you, but like, like today, for example, I listened to five artists.
01:25:26:04 – 01:25:27:02
Paula Allen
Okay, okay.
01:25:27:07 – 01:25:33:18
Agent Palmer
Because I have, an Amazon device and I’m like, hey, play X, right?
01:25:33:23 – 01:25:33:41
Paula Allen
Yeah.
01:25:33:46 – 01:25:42:37
Agent Palmer
So today I asked it to play The Tragically Hip. Yep. I asked it to play Bob Dylan’s Oh Mercy album.
01:25:42:42 – 01:25:43:41
Paula Allen
Who?
01:25:43:41 – 01:25:47:03
Agent Palmer
I asked it to play the Beaches.
01:25:47:08 – 01:25:48:51
Paula Allen
Yeah, beaches.
01:25:48:51 – 01:25:57:33
Agent Palmer
I asked it to play The Trews. And I asked it to play the Gin Blossom’s night. Those are the five bands I like to.
01:25:57:41 – 01:26:01:37
Paula Allen
Mix your spanning decades with that mix.
01:26:01:37 – 01:26:10:38
Agent Palmer
I and genres and yeah, you know, I’m showing my, elder millennial almost Gen X roots.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).