Episode 182 featuring the return of Shawn McBee from all the way back on episode 46.
This time he’s back to talk about Kickstarter, algorithms, hobbies, comics, the democratization of many many things, and much much more…
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Shawn on The Palmer Files Episode 46: Pictures, Props, and Podcasts with Shawn McBee
Other Links
Make Space on your shelf for Michener’s sci-fi novel
Mrs. Agent Palmer Reviews Sandi Toksvig’s Friends of Dorothy (and I helped)
An Avid Reader’s Guide to a Methodical Book Purge
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:04 – 00:00:20:39
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer. Mrs. Agent Palmer review Sandi Toksvig. Friends of Dorothy and I helped make space on your shelf for missioners sci fi novel. And since last episode, I’ve been thinking of ways to write beyond the blog and podcast. This is The Palmer Files episode 182, featuring the return of Shaun McBee from all the Way Back on episode 46.
00:00:20:41 – 00:00:32:53
Agent Palmer
This time he’s back to talk about Kickstarter, algorithms, hobbies, comics, the democratization of many, many things, and much, much more. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:32:58 – 00:01:05:05
Shawn McBee
Don’t get me wrong, I fantasize about it every day. I think when you have too many hobbies is when you have more projects in progress. Then you have realistic time to finish any one of them. I didn’t want to feel like I was hustling. You know, I’ve lived through the democratization of blank so many times. You know what?
00:01:05:05 – 00:01:11:36
Shawn McBee
If I were going to get a phrase tattooed on me, it would be that I don’t like that. That’s true.
00:01:11:41 – 00:01:34:01
Agent Palmer
Hello, and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 182nd episode is Shaun McBee. He’s back after more than 100 episodes to school me on his experience with Kickstarter, something I’ve only experienced from the consumer end, as well as having too many hobbies as if there could be such a thing playing the algorithm, being on a passionate island even among friends.
00:01:34:01 – 00:01:53:29
Agent Palmer
Plus, his podcasting journey from radio origins to its perhaps conclusive end, the democratization of many, many things and unfortunate truths. All that and much, much more is coming your way shortly. But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterward, you can find all related ways to contact Sean and myself in the show notes.
00:01:53:29 – 00:02:09:35
Agent Palmer
You can connect with Sean on Instagram, or while you’ll hear talk of the Kickstarter for the second issue of Western, you can follow the Kickstarter for issue three, which is on the horizon. Don’t forget, you can see all of my ratings and rantings on Agent Palmer. Com and of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com.
00:02:09:40 – 00:02:17:46
Agent Palmer
So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:17:51 – 00:02:20:56
Agent Palmer
Sean, welcome back to the show. I know that.
00:02:20:56 – 00:02:29:19
Agent Palmer
It’s been a while, but just to just to be clear, you’re still working a day job within film and television, correct?
00:02:29:22 – 00:02:32:48
Shawn McBee
I am when I’m working on something.
00:02:32:50 – 00:02:51:08
Agent Palmer
Yep. Project based. And in addition to that, you are doing, among other things, a comic where you just completed a Kickstarter. And I wanted to ask you about this specifically because you’ve done a Kickstarter before for for issue one of Western.
00:02:51:11 – 00:02:51:35
Shawn McBee
Yes.
00:02:51:37 – 00:03:07:29
Agent Palmer
And you just finished Kickstarter too, but you’ve also had other jobs while doing this. And as someone who’s never done a Kickstarter before, from the outside looking in, is it is running one just taking on another job?
00:03:07:31 – 00:03:08:31
Shawn McBee
Oh yeah.
00:03:08:31 – 00:03:20:55
Agent Palmer
Or more than that. Like, what is it like because I, I, I’m, I’m curious because you’ve been through it and I’ve just, I’ve given money to a Kickstarter here and there, but I’ve never undertaken one.
00:03:20:55 – 00:03:41:03
Shawn McBee
Well it’s a lot. And it’s not just during the Kickstarter. It’s way in advance. You start very early because you want to build up a buzz. You want to build up some social media following. You want to tease it out. You want to get people signed up for the pre-launch.
00:03:41:05 – 00:03:41:37
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:03:41:39 – 00:03:51:50
Shawn McBee
So you have like, you know, you can go to a Kickstarter that’s not live yet and you can follow, put your email in and they’ll email you when it goes live.
00:03:51:53 – 00:03:52:24
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:03:52:26 – 00:03:56:50
Shawn McBee
And the conversion rate on those is somewhere around 25%.
00:03:56:52 – 00:04:00:23
Agent Palmer
For someone who’s already signed up before launch for.
00:04:00:26 – 00:04:12:44
Shawn McBee
Yeah. So if they’ve seen your coming soon page and they’re like, this seems interesting, let me follow along. You’re at about anywhere from 20 to 30 to about 25% on average.
00:04:12:44 – 00:04:17:20
Agent Palmer
That’s got to be the best percentage you have of everything, right? Probably.
00:04:17:27 – 00:04:18:08
Shawn McBee
Yeah. Probably.
00:04:18:10 – 00:04:19:03
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:04:19:08 – 00:04:39:50
Shawn McBee
I mean, like I send out emails to, you know, hey, do you want to review this comic? Because we do our comic in advance. We’re not kickstarting to fund the actual making of the comic. Yep. We put our money down ahead of time so that people don’t aren’t waiting a year for the comic to be finished or whatever.
00:04:39:55 – 00:04:45:42
Agent Palmer
And and that’s a, that’s a choice, right? There are some that do the other way around.
00:04:45:45 – 00:04:58:27
Shawn McBee
We opted to go this way because I was waiting, you know, nine months or a year for a comic that I had funded. Okay. And going like this isn’t the best experience.
00:04:58:30 – 00:04:59:08
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:04:59:15 – 00:05:15:19
Shawn McBee
And while there are lots and lots of backers on Kickstarter that are, like, totally down with that, they’re like, I get it. It takes a long time. It’s a lot of work. I tend to everything that I do, I do from the perspective of how I would react to it.
00:05:15:21 – 00:05:16:17
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:05:16:21 – 00:05:26:02
Shawn McBee
And when I back something and have to wait over a year for it, I feel like a, you know, so I didn’t want to do that to my people.
00:05:26:04 – 00:05:27:06
Agent Palmer
Gotcha.
00:05:27:11 – 00:05:29:59
Shawn McBee
Not there’s anything wrong with it. Yep.
00:05:30:06 – 00:05:48:15
Agent Palmer
To each their own, but so so you’ve you have the comic, you can send it out for buzz and you can start getting the backers. But there’s there’s more to this, obviously, than just carpet bombing the, the world Wide Web for.
00:05:48:19 – 00:05:58:21
Shawn McBee
So, so when I, when I send it out for reviews and stuff, I if I, if I get like a 10% response rate, I feel glorious.
00:05:58:24 – 00:05:58:55
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:05:59:07 – 00:06:05:50
Shawn McBee
And I feel like 10% of anything is going to be good. But that that pre sign up.
00:06:05:52 – 00:06:06:26
Agent Palmer
Yep.
00:06:06:33 – 00:06:28:22
Shawn McBee
At about 25%. I think our first issue had a 28% conversion rate okay. Which isn’t bad. That’s yeah 28% of people that signed up in the first place ended up buying it. Yeah which is great. So we actually postponed the launch of number two until well after the comic was done, because I wanted to build that number up.
00:06:28:24 – 00:06:28:58
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:06:29:00 – 00:06:40:07
Shawn McBee
I was like, I want 300 people there. So if we have that same conversion rate, that’ll fund the whole thing right away with just those people, okay. Because you set your.
00:06:40:09 – 00:06:40:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah, you set.
00:06:40:43 – 00:06:41:45
Shawn McBee
Your goal low.
00:06:41:50 – 00:06:55:11
Agent Palmer
Oh, okay. Well, I mean you said it at what you said. I mean, I guess that’s the question is, did you know the first time specifically what you, you know, what was realistic versus what you wanted it to be?
00:06:55:18 – 00:06:57:20
Shawn McBee
Oh, we ignored realism completely.
00:06:57:30 – 00:06:59:34
Agent Palmer
Okay, okay.
00:06:59:39 – 00:07:08:10
Shawn McBee
We we set our goal for 1000 okay. Which was roughly one fifth what we had already put into the comic.
00:07:08:15 – 00:07:08:48
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:07:08:51 – 00:07:23:33
Shawn McBee
Because the way Kickstarter works is if you’re limping along the whole time and like, unsure if you’re going to hit your goal, then they’re not really pushing you in the algorithm.
00:07:23:35 – 00:07:24:18
Agent Palmer
Okay?
00:07:24:21 – 00:07:35:13
Shawn McBee
But if you come out of the gate strong, you’re like, bam, we hit our goal. Then there’s more chance that Kickstarter is going to go, hey, whoa, this is looking kind of hot. Maybe we should push this up to the front page.
00:07:35:13 – 00:07:42:15
Agent Palmer
So that’s another algorithm among all the other algorithms that you then have to play along with.
00:07:42:22 – 00:07:45:17
Shawn McBee
Yes. And there’s a human algorithm with Kickstarter.
00:07:45:22 – 00:07:47:10
Agent Palmer
What’s the human algorithm.
00:07:47:15 – 00:07:51:31
Shawn McBee
Which is that, you know, you go to kickstart and you see like project we love.
00:07:51:34 – 00:07:52:14
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:07:52:22 – 00:08:01:47
Shawn McBee
There is no algorithm for that. That is literally just Kickstarter employees selecting things that they think fit into that category.
00:08:01:50 – 00:08:02:33
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:08:02:35 – 00:08:12:23
Shawn McBee
And so my first Kickstarter was not comic book related. It was actually a replica of a poster that John Lennon used to own. That being for the benefit of Mr. Kite was based on.
00:08:12:25 – 00:08:13:01
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:08:13:04 – 00:08:21:39
Shawn McBee
That got a project We love badge, and it did very well. Western number one did not get a product. We love badge, but we hit our goal in six hours.
00:08:21:41 – 00:08:22:22
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:08:22:25 – 00:08:38:07
Shawn McBee
Which was good. And then you get a dead zone in the middle. So everything just drops off. Like you have a couple of good days in the beginning. And then just the longest dead zone were you think, I’m never going to make more money from this. This is it.
00:08:38:07 – 00:08:38:28
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:08:38:31 – 00:08:44:26
Shawn McBee
And then it picks up at the end is people go, oh, this is ending soon. I should go ahead and jump in.
00:08:44:28 – 00:08:44:57
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:08:44:59 – 00:08:59:44
Shawn McBee
It’s almost like you should just do a five day campaign and keep the momentum going the whole time. Yeah, but that’s not an option. We did a 45 day campaign because the first time we did 30, and that dead zone in the middle was interminable.
00:08:59:49 – 00:09:00:29
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:09:00:37 – 00:09:08:15
Shawn McBee
For number two, we did 45 days because we were trying to build up that social media following. Okay. And that follower number.
00:09:08:17 – 00:09:22:26
Agent Palmer
And you’re not starting from zero this time around, which has to be super like, I guess like a little bit more comfortable, I guess. Right. Because you’ve got some followers from number one.
00:09:22:31 – 00:09:26:09
Shawn McBee
Well, it’s a little different. You don’t, you can’t like.
00:09:26:11 – 00:09:26:26
Agent Palmer
Oh.
00:09:26:26 – 00:09:28:33
Shawn McBee
You can’t just copy those people over.
00:09:28:35 – 00:09:30:47
Agent Palmer
You have to can you? But can you.
00:09:30:56 – 00:09:40:13
Shawn McBee
You start a new campaign and that campaign starts from zero. You can send an update to the old campaign. Okay. To let those people know. All right. I don’t know what the conversion rate is on that.
00:09:40:15 – 00:09:49:05
Agent Palmer
Okay. But I mean, for actual socials, though, you’ve you do have a little bit of a following from the first one. Yes. Okay.
00:09:49:10 – 00:09:56:17
Shawn McBee
So you know, there are people that have read it that may want to read it some more. Okay. One hopes.
00:09:56:19 – 00:09:56:55
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:09:56:55 – 00:10:20:37
Shawn McBee
So that’s helpful. But we took too long between issues. We really wanted a faster turnaround. But for this one time I decided we should build that number up, try to get it up to 300 and that just didn’t happen. So it came to the point where it was like, oh, we launched on June 1st. We can’t go more than a year before launching our next campaign, so we need to launch it on June 1st again.
00:10:20:39 – 00:10:21:10
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:10:21:13 – 00:10:48:52
Shawn McBee
So we just put it out there and we went with a 45 day campaign because suddenly realizing that that one year mark was coming up didn’t give us a lot of time to schedule out interviews and such. Yeah. So the first couple of interviews that we set up were like, oh yeah, this will come out on July 8th or July 3rd, which required a slightly longer time to be able to do those interviews while the campaign was still active.
00:10:48:54 – 00:11:03:27
Agent Palmer
So all of this is to say, it’s a lot to prep. It’s a lot to do. How do you manage this when you do have, like when you are on a television show for a little bit? Is it is is it like having two jobs?
00:11:03:29 – 00:11:29:59
Shawn McBee
Yeah. I mean, I kind of always feel like I have eight jobs, like at this moment as we’re speaking. Yeah, I am not on a TV show, but. And yet I have no time left in my day. My days are jammed full. I’m doing some freelance stuff that is very dystopian. Okay? I’m literally training AI to take my job.
00:11:30:01 – 00:11:32:47
Shawn McBee
Okay, that’s how dystopian life is right now.
00:11:32:49 – 00:11:34:08
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, I get it.
00:11:34:11 – 00:11:54:24
Shawn McBee
I get so so that’s my side hustle between TV shows, slash movies. And then I’ve got my personal projects that I’m trying to work on, which is like rebuilding my basement workshop and making some prop replicas down there. And I’ve got the comic, which is the comic itself, plus the Kickstarter for it.
00:11:54:26 – 00:12:01:19
Agent Palmer
Which are two separate. I mean, they are two separate projects. I mean, they’re connected, but they are two separate things, right?
00:12:01:21 – 00:12:20:53
Shawn McBee
So like the comic, I don’t do the art. We hired artists, all the arts done. But then there’s the non art pages. Yeah. Which is a lot of graphic design sort of sort of like your website. You know how your website’s like a desk with papers. Yeah. Are non-story pages in the comic are like that. Okay. The same sort of idea.
00:12:20:58 – 00:12:28:36
Shawn McBee
It’s, you know, files that give you an in-world glimpse into, like, who this character is, what their background is, okay. Things like that.
00:12:28:39 – 00:12:55:57
Agent Palmer
So all of that is to say like, let, let me, let me, let me pick one of the things out of that, which is your personal stuff, the making of props. That’s a combination of a lot of different skill sets. I think we talked about it the first time you were on, but I think so, given that it feels like you’re busier now than you were then, how do you still maintain any bandwidth for that?
00:12:55:57 – 00:13:22:02
Agent Palmer
And I’m asking as someone who is, you know, also very busy and at my wits end and going like, you know, I, I work, I release every two weeks and I record when I can record. And sometimes the best I can do is literally editing for 15 minutes, which might net me 4 or 5 minutes of progress. Like I don’t have a lot to go, like, oh yeah, I can sit down and do for hours and knock it out or whatever.
00:13:22:04 – 00:13:23:30
Agent Palmer
How do you manage?
00:13:23:35 – 00:13:27:45
Shawn McBee
Genuinely, I just haven’t been okay. I was I was doing better when I was at work.
00:13:27:47 – 00:13:28:25
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:13:28:28 – 00:13:49:10
Shawn McBee
Because at work, you know, at least you’re you’re tied to a desk. And if you get a minute where you’re waiting on someone else for something, then you just move like so I’m a I don’t know if you’re familiar with the show supernatural. Yeah, I’m working on a couple of different replicas from that right now. Okay. And one of them is Dean Winchester’s 1911.
00:13:49:12 – 00:13:50:05
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:13:50:10 – 00:14:01:45
Shawn McBee
- Yeah, it’s got some custom scrollwork in the side. So while I was at work waiting on other people for things, on occasion I would just open up illustrator and recreate that scroll work.
00:14:01:47 – 00:14:02:21
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:14:02:23 – 00:14:31:07
Shawn McBee
But here at home, I. And especially with that AI training thing, which I hate, AI, we don’t use any in our comic whatsoever. I want that to be clear. But you know, the the pay for training it to replace me is kind of needed. So while I’m doing that, that’s 100% like freelance on my own time. Yeah. So I feel like, okay, I need to use my time for that.
00:14:31:10 – 00:14:37:07
Agent Palmer
Yes. There is no I’m waiting on somebody else. You’re always waiting on you usually, right?
00:14:37:07 – 00:14:57:20
Shawn McBee
Yeah. And then that only runs out if I run out of. They only let you do 40 hours a week. So if I run out of that 40 hours, which I probably should, like, refocus myself so that I eat up that 40 hours so I can push that off my list. Yeah. And then like, have the rest of that time just for me.
00:14:57:25 – 00:15:09:12
Shawn McBee
But I always feel like, okay, I got to send more press emails for the comic or have to design the Kickstarter page, which I have to make all the graphics for it and have to lay it out and it’s the whole thing.
00:15:09:12 – 00:15:38:03
Agent Palmer
So let me I want to fast forward for a moment because I know that personally, as a setup to this, what I’m doing now with the blog and the podcast, I guess if I could keep it going long enough, if I ever got to a point where I could actually retire, I would continue to do this stuff and probably other side projects and hustles, working with friends and collaborating with other people.
00:15:38:08 – 00:16:02:59
Agent Palmer
I don’t see myself ever being the kind of person who’s going to retire and be like, all right, that’s it. I’m just going to sit on a beach or in a cabin somewhere. And that’s that’s until the sun sets. There’s always going to be something. So if I fast forward for you, obviously the industry work and probably the AI work all goes away and stuff, but are you still doing comics and props?
00:16:03:02 – 00:16:10:06
Agent Palmer
I mean, is that just that’s every like, you know, if you could retire tomorrow, that’s still what you’re going to do. Yeah. Okay.
00:16:10:08 – 00:16:13:18
Shawn McBee
Don’t get me wrong. I fantasize about it every day.
00:16:13:20 – 00:16:16:01
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:16:16:06 – 00:16:26:00
Shawn McBee
The little, little digression. I actually knew a guy back in Florida when I lived there who won a $17 million lotto jackpot.
00:16:26:03 – 00:16:26:34
Agent Palmer
Wow.
00:16:26:39 – 00:16:42:57
Shawn McBee
So when I found out how he came by his money, I did start playing the lottery. And I do occasionally play the lottery, and I don’t. I’m not like a passive lottery player. I like math it out. I’m like, okay, if I won this, how much could I keep?
00:16:42:59 – 00:16:43:35
Agent Palmer
Yep.
00:16:43:42 – 00:17:05:58
Shawn McBee
How would I invest it? Yeah. What would my annual take home be from the dividends or interest or whatever? So yeah, I think about it a lot and I would continue I would put money into getting the comic made, you know, several months in advance. Okay. Several issues in advance. That is. Yeah. So that we could keep it releasing on a normal schedule.
00:17:06:00 – 00:17:31:47
Shawn McBee
And, you know, I’m I’m lucky enough that I know real veteran comic creators who have been in the industry for 30 plus years, and I’ve written some of the greatest comics ever made. And I regularly get advice from one of these people. And, you know, he tells me, you know, this, this comic, you get up to issue, 7 or 8, people will start to notice it.
00:17:31:47 – 00:17:55:17
Shawn McBee
It’ll start to pick up steam, you know, you start to get going. So that’s like the dream is if I could make the if I could afford to make the comic and not worry about getting money from it all, it paying it for itself, which we’re not at the moment, it definitely is not paid for itself. But you know, I would keep making it even if it just cost me money to make because I yeah, I enjoy it.
00:17:55:21 – 00:18:18:39
Agent Palmer
Well, I, I appreciate the fact that it’s I don’t know why, but it’s been stuck in my head for a while. And it’s come up on some episodes, usually specifically tied to writing, but it’s like, you know, there’s always those people that are like that are actual writers and they’re like, you know, people ask them for advice like, hey, what, what, what, what do you want?
00:18:18:42 – 00:19:03:01
Agent Palmer
What can I do to be a writer? And they’re like, don’t be a writer like that. The, the, the veteran, you know, wordsmith token answer when asked for advice is don’t be a writer. And I, I feel like while that is a lot of the creative arts in general as far as like, oh, you want to do this to make money, it is heartening to hear that somebody said, well, if you get to issue seven, they didn’t say, don’t do it, which I appreciate, because I feel like a lot of us, myself specifically, I don’t make any money from the blog, in the podcast, and I don’t expect to, but I’m I’m also not a
00:19:03:03 – 00:19:24:18
Agent Palmer
guy who’s going to be like, yeah, everybody needs a podcast. But I’m all, you know, so I’m in that weird space where it’s like, if you really want to, by all means, there are worse things you can do with your money and your time. But I like the idea that someone said, yeah, get to get to get to seven and they’ll notice.
00:19:24:18 – 00:19:33:23
Shawn McBee
And, you know, Geoff Johns told me he didn’t say, don’t write. He said, don’t write for DC or Marvel or any of them.
00:19:33:30 – 00:19:34:18
Agent Palmer
Write for yourself.
00:19:34:20 – 00:19:37:54
Shawn McBee
Write your own characters, okay? Create your own stuff. That was his advice.
00:19:37:56 – 00:20:01:26
Agent Palmer
I mean, that’s probably the best advice across, like, if you can do it for yourself, right? Because that when, when you and I talk about and I guess maybe this is important to just reiterate when I talk about the blog and the podcast, when you talk about the comic and building props we want, like if there was no money involved, we would still be doing this stuff.
00:20:01:33 – 00:20:18:56
Agent Palmer
Like even without the idea of a potential payoff, we would still be doing this stuff. And it’s important that when you go after that thing you want to do that you think you want to do that, you do it because you want to do it, not because you feel like you have to.
00:20:18:58 – 00:20:40:45
Shawn McBee
100%. And like with the proper applicants. That’s just because I like owning stuff from shows and movies, and if I can just buy it, then I just buy it. But if I can’t find one, that’s good enough for me, which is often the case, I have to make it myself. So there you go. I’m not doing it to sell them.
00:20:40:50 – 00:21:13:48
Shawn McBee
There is, you know, that thing in the back of my head? Like, if I do this because. So I’m making the cult. Like, not Dean’s cult, but the cult. The demon killing cult from supernatural. Okay, I spent $900 on an actual replica cult Patterson like functional gun to make this thing. And then I had to machine a new cylinder for it, and I had to get part of it engraved, and I had to recreate all the other engravings and then engrave those on a laser engraver at my makerspace and all this stuff.
00:21:13:48 – 00:21:34:51
Shawn McBee
And all told, like, I’m going to be probably a couple grand in the whole just to make this thing for myself. So there is that thing in my head, like, how can I make more of these? Can I cast this up? Can I mold it? Can I sell more of those to help offset the cost? But beyond that, I don’t like think about them in terms of sales, even though sometimes I post stuff and people are like.
00:21:34:54 – 00:21:36:25
Shawn McBee
I want to buy one of those.
00:21:36:27 – 00:22:06:16
Agent Palmer
Yeah, it’s it’s a weird, I think I, I mean, this is, this is the the cost of us living in America. Like there is a, a gnawing capitalist mentality that even if we aren’t full blown capitalists, it’s there like you, you could try and make money, you could try and sell this. It doesn’t matter how much you do it for yourself.
00:22:06:16 – 00:22:40:04
Agent Palmer
It’s always a little bit there of like, but you could try and sell ad space. You could definitely sell that cult like there. There’s that. It’s that underpinning of this is where we live and maybe you specifically with the props more than I. But like we’ve both been in situations where people are like, when you make any money at that, which is the only question that seemingly well-meaning people ask because they’re like, they just see like, oh, you put a lot of time and energy like you make a little money of that.
00:22:40:07 – 00:22:41:33
Agent Palmer
It’s like, that’s not it’s not.
00:22:41:35 – 00:22:44:16
Shawn McBee
Like, why else would you do it?
00:22:44:18 – 00:22:51:04
Agent Palmer
Yeah. That’s true. There is an amount of like God, a hobby for hobby sake.
00:22:51:18 – 00:22:55:15
Shawn McBee
Yeah. And I have two many of those hobbies.
00:22:55:15 – 00:22:58:13
Agent Palmer
For hobbies sake, I don’t think you can have too many.
00:22:58:20 – 00:23:02:56
Shawn McBee
I well, you know, they all cost money. Well no that’s that.
00:23:02:56 – 00:23:05:32
Agent Palmer
No, they, they very much all cost money.
00:23:05:34 – 00:23:24:06
Shawn McBee
And they all cost time to a larger degree. Yeah. And so I think when you have too many hobbies is when you have more projects in progress, then you have realistic time to finish any one of them.
00:23:24:09 – 00:23:46:08
Agent Palmer
Do you enjoy the bouncing around though, like that, that there has to be an amount of, you know, you always have, like let’s say two hours a week for whatever your, your you know, Sean’s thing is. But if you, if you get like sick of engraving or it’s just, you know, you can always jump to the next one, right?
00:23:46:10 – 00:24:02:40
Shawn McBee
It is always nice to to be able to jump around. However, my issue is more that I don’t have a choice because my brain won’t let me stick with one thing from beginning to completion.
00:24:02:43 – 00:24:03:21
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:24:03:23 – 00:24:16:23
Shawn McBee
I just jump around so much it’s insane. And I’m like, I’ve got a C and C machine coming. At some point in the next month or so, however long it takes to ship across the Atlantic.
00:24:16:32 – 00:24:16:58
Agent Palmer
A, C and.
00:24:16:58 – 00:24:17:34
Shawn McBee
C.
00:24:17:39 – 00:24:19:34
Agent Palmer
What’s the what’s the key machine?
00:24:19:37 – 00:24:41:04
Shawn McBee
CNC is computer numeric control. So it’s a manufacturing machine. Basically it’s a it’s a desktop machine that can use, you know, how a 3D printing is called additive okay. CNC is subtractive. So you put in a block of aluminum and carve away which you don’t want anymore and get your, your thing.
00:24:41:07 – 00:25:04:48
Agent Palmer
Okay. So I’m going to ask very dangerous question. But this is where. So I don’t jump around as much. But I do jump around. But my problem is I don’t take time on the finished product. So once it’s done I’m immediately on to the next thing. Yeah, I don’t know. And I know I have friends who are like, you should celebrate.
00:25:04:51 – 00:25:29:18
Agent Palmer
You know, you just finished this thing. You just did X, Y and Z and my my brain and I’m trying and and being a dad and especially, you know, having a, you know, there was a birthday party for a one year old and it’s like, oh, I’m not a birthday person, but I’m trying. I’m trying for this little human who I look after.
00:25:29:18 – 00:25:51:58
Agent Palmer
It’s like, I want to I want to be happy for you for this year and for, you know, eventually year two and three. But my personal I still can’t like for myself. I can’t get to the celebration point. I’m always on how it was great to do this. Oh, no. The to the to do list is still.
00:25:52:02 – 00:26:03:21
Shawn McBee
My biggest issue with that is I do like have the celebration thing. Like, if I make something really cool, I want to show people, okay. But nobody I know gives half a shit.
00:26:03:26 – 00:26:04:02
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah.
00:26:04:04 – 00:26:17:18
Shawn McBee
Hey, look at this. And they’re like, oh, that’s cool. And nobody like, has that like excitement about it that I do. So I got to post it to to read it and hope that I get up votes to validate my excitement.
00:26:17:20 – 00:26:41:28
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah. Well, and that’s I mean, that’s the thing too, obviously, for anybody who’s been in podcasting for any amount of time. We all have a podcasting circle. But outside of my podcasting circle, I’m the only podcaster. So like, you know, there are creative types who are like, who can, I guess, share the joy and being working ahead.
00:26:41:31 – 00:26:52:35
Agent Palmer
But there is, you know, within that other circle, the non casting circle, no one has. Occasionally they’ll listen to an episode. Well yeah. But it’s like oh that’s.
00:26:52:35 – 00:26:56:37
Shawn McBee
What’s your podcast about. Tell me, tell me where I can find it so that I can not go there.
00:26:56:39 – 00:27:14:26
Agent Palmer
Yeah it’s it’s weird I don’t want it’s not, it’s, it’s not being an individual within a group because we all are in different groups. But there is always it’s always weird to be passionate about the one thing that your immediate circle does not care at all about.
00:27:14:29 – 00:27:22:57
Shawn McBee
Yeah. And you know, having made several podcasts myself, like, I know you tell people you have a podcast, they always ask what it’s about.
00:27:23:02 – 00:27:24:23
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And.
00:27:24:26 – 00:27:37:27
Shawn McBee
You know, you can tell they’re not going to listen to it. No, no, they don’t really care unless, you know, it’s something that everybody is into like some true crime stuff or.
00:27:37:31 – 00:27:49:34
Agent Palmer
Or unless it, it’s one of those people in your actual podcasting circle. Right. But otherwise it’s the same as you finishing a cool prop and having no one to share it with.
00:27:49:36 – 00:28:05:42
Shawn McBee
Yeah. You know, back to the capitalism like, hobbies for profit thing. Yeah. That’s kind of what happened to my favorite podcast of mine, Table Reads. Okay. We did, you know, 135 episodes, which was a really good number for me.
00:28:05:47 – 00:28:06:11
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:28:06:14 – 00:28:26:27
Shawn McBee
But then Covid happened and that podcast, it was me and two other guys, sometimes with a fourth. If we could get my friend Kelly to come on to not be three dudes in a room. Yeah, we would sit around and we would do a cold read of an unproduced screenplay. Yeah, and they’re usually really bad.
00:28:26:36 – 00:28:28:51
Agent Palmer
That’s why they’re unproduced. Right, right.
00:28:28:53 – 00:28:48:21
Shawn McBee
And this is like a sequel to Who Framed Roger rabbit. Well, a prequel, actually to Who Framed Roger rabbit, written right after the huge success of Who Framed Roger rabbit that somehow never got made into a movie. Strangely enough, that one was one of the two good ones we read in the entire time. Another example would be Beetlejuice Goes Hawaiian.
00:28:48:23 – 00:28:53:42
Shawn McBee
It was a Beetlejuice sequel that took place in Hawaii.
00:28:53:47 – 00:28:54:11
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:28:54:13 – 00:29:20:00
Shawn McBee
And it was very bad. These are the kinds of things we would read like, yeah, big budget studio, you know, franchise. Yeah. Type movies. We did Darren Aronofsky’s aborted Batman Year One script, for example. Okay. Where Batman’s like in a junkyard, he’s not rich, and a Chris Columbus penned on spec. Indiana Jones movie, Indiana Jones and the Monkey King.
00:29:20:02 – 00:29:39:32
Shawn McBee
These kinds of things. Anyway, it was a funny, funny podcast. We had a lot of fun doing it, but it only works if they’re in the room. Yeah, during Covid we did some over zoom. It just didn’t have the spark. Yeah. And so Covid happens. We tried on zoom for a while. It’s not really working. So we take a hiatus.
00:29:39:39 – 00:30:06:57
Shawn McBee
Then during Covid my co-hosts get these other jobs that take them traveling all the time. One or the other of them is like always out of town. So it’s really hard to come together and do this thing. And then finally things start to calm down and we have a meeting about starting up the podcast. But one of my co-hosts is like, hey, you know, if we’re going to do this, it really needs to be something like, it doesn’t need to make money, but it needs to be something where we’re trying to make money.
00:30:06:57 – 00:30:22:01
Shawn McBee
And he’s talking about like pushing clips on on TikTok and doing all this stuff. And it just kind of killed the momentum for me. And like, I don’t I didn’t want to feel like I was hustling.
00:30:22:03 – 00:30:22:39
Agent Palmer
Know.
00:30:22:44 – 00:30:23:56
Shawn McBee
Making the podcast.
00:30:23:58 – 00:30:56:03
Agent Palmer
So it boils down to something that I want to ask you because it’s something that I deal with on a regular basis. The recording aspect of this podcast is the most collaborative part of the entire Palmer brand right now. Now I do some little design projects with a friend of mine that’s great to collaborate, but otherwise I am writing or I am editing by myself.
00:30:56:08 – 00:31:23:07
Agent Palmer
Obviously your comic is a collaborative effort, but the prop stuff is, you know, a solo effort. Do you like. And I’m not saying do you miss the podcast, but as far as the podcast being a collaborative effort, right? Do you miss that outlet of, okay, I get to work with people as opposed to, I’m just doing this on my own?
00:31:23:09 – 00:31:44:22
Shawn McBee
Yeah. I mean, look, it was two friends who weren’t friends before the podcast. I literally like, met one of them because I was looking for a new co-host. And then he brought his friend along. And so it was two friends coming over reading bad scripts and laughing at them. Yeah. And it was a fun time every time they could come over.
00:31:44:22 – 00:31:58:24
Shawn McBee
We had a blast. We laughed so much. It was just good times. And that’s what it was about for me, because also I set up the podcast. So I come from like an old school radio background.
00:31:58:26 – 00:31:59:02
Agent Palmer
Okay?
00:31:59:04 – 00:32:14:15
Shawn McBee
When I was a teenager, I literally went and hung out at radio stations at night. Me and my friend, like we knew DJ’s, we hung out at radio stations, and then I worked at radio stations when I was in my early, late, late teens, early 20s.
00:32:14:18 – 00:32:14:42
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:32:14:44 – 00:32:23:05
Shawn McBee
And had an actual terrestrial radio station on a public access station. So that’s sort of where my podcasts.
00:32:23:15 – 00:32:23:58
Agent Palmer
Comes from.
00:32:24:00 – 00:32:31:38
Shawn McBee
Stuff came in, so for table reads, it was highly produced, but run like a live show.
00:32:31:43 – 00:32:32:19
Agent Palmer
I gotcha.
00:32:32:22 – 00:32:41:47
Shawn McBee
Which took a lot, a lot of setup, but I didn’t want to edit. Okay. So we had like background music that would play while we were reading that would match, like with the scene.
00:32:41:50 – 00:32:42:11
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:32:42:14 – 00:33:07:00
Shawn McBee
And we had like special effects. We would play sound effects as well. And I did it all on a stream deck. Okay, I got the biggest stream deck, loaded it up with sounds and and shortcuts and everything was I had a 32 channel mixer with like, reverb on it. So if someone’s yelling through a microphone megaphone or if there’s like a godly character, I could just turn on the, the reverb.
00:33:07:00 – 00:33:31:56
Shawn McBee
And so all of it and, and then we added video. And so it was running through OBS and I could switch cameras on there. And it was all very intense, like probably the, the most over-the-top live production of a podcast ever for a podcast that wasn’t live. Yeah. But at the end, I really just needed to do a quick mix down and post it, and that was great.
00:33:31:59 – 00:33:36:18
Shawn McBee
We even had for the video aspect, we even had an overlay of the script.
00:33:36:20 – 00:33:36:58
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:33:37:01 – 00:33:51:19
Shawn McBee
On screen so that people could read along, which was just like I had a separate iPad in like night mode, okay. And then put some effect on it on, on OBS so that it would like show up as white text over.
00:33:51:19 – 00:33:52:12
Agent Palmer
The show.
00:33:52:24 – 00:33:53:10
Shawn McBee
It was a lot.
00:33:53:12 – 00:34:20:10
Agent Palmer
So let’s so you just described it being a lot and I understand why it it is no more. I think anybody listening would understand that. But I want to ask, how did you get cured of your podcasting. And I asked that because it seems that no matter how bad the experience is or how rough or how great, usually everybody always comes back.
00:34:20:15 – 00:34:39:52
Agent Palmer
And I say that as someone who I know people that haven’t but have still been talking about coming back and just, you know, their shows have been dormant for a year or two. And it’s still when you talk to them, they’re like, I’m still thinking about bringing the bikes back. So I want to know, like, are you are are you cured?
00:34:39:52 – 00:35:01:41
Agent Palmer
Are you, you know, no more podcast aside from, you know, being on other people’s that’s a you know, guesting is different. But are you are you cured or you know might you I call it cure because it it does I do find that people are like, I’ve got one podcast, but I could do two. And so it feels like a always like not a.
00:35:01:46 – 00:35:03:41
Shawn McBee
There was a period I had 3 or 4.
00:35:03:46 – 00:35:10:24
Agent Palmer
Okay. But but but you don’t now like are or can I ask are you cured.
00:35:10:26 – 00:35:29:54
Shawn McBee
I think that I am okay. So table reads fizzled out the way that it did. And then I did the Star Girl after show, which was to me a very successful podcast in terms of what I was able to accomplish with it. Okay, basically no one listened to it because like the show that it covered, it never found its audience.
00:35:30:04 – 00:35:53:21
Shawn McBee
If that show had found its audience, maybe my podcast would have. But yeah, it didn’t. So when the show ended, obviously you don’t keep talking about it. Yeah. And you do a rewatch podcast ten years later or whatever. And so once that ended and then my third podcast was called with a friend of mine who I stopped being friends with after 30 years.
00:35:53:24 – 00:36:16:35
Shawn McBee
That’s a whole other thing. But then I was just out of podcasts. I had spent thousands of dollars on all this equipment. I had built the basically the radio studio that I had wanted since I was a teenager. Okay, I accomplished it. I have this huge desk here right now. That was my podcast desk. I had it custom built.
00:36:16:44 – 00:36:19:56
Shawn McBee
Well, I had the pieces custom cut and then I built it myself.
00:36:19:58 – 00:36:20:37
Agent Palmer
Yep.
00:36:20:39 – 00:36:29:43
Shawn McBee
Had a 32 channel mixer. You see, I got this like real nice mic. These mic stands cost $400 each.
00:36:29:55 – 00:36:33:14
Agent Palmer
Yep. And you’re touching it and I don’t hear a thing.
00:36:33:19 – 00:36:48:23
Shawn McBee
Well, I want to say I didn’t pay for dollars each for them. We got them on a TV show as part of a set. And then when that TV show sold off all its stuff after I got canceled, I found a bunch of these in a box for ten bucks each.
00:36:48:25 – 00:36:49:18
Agent Palmer
Oh, nice.
00:36:49:25 – 00:36:51:18
Shawn McBee
Nice. So that was my.
00:36:51:18 – 00:36:53:51
Agent Palmer
Big get. Still, they’re really good though, because yeah.
00:36:53:54 – 00:37:08:17
Shawn McBee
They’re German. You know, yellow tech mica is what they’re called. They’re amazing and I love them anyway. So I had all this stuff and then at some point like that mixer just stopped working. It just fully died.
00:37:08:19 – 00:37:08:51
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:37:08:53 – 00:37:27:21
Shawn McBee
So I pulled it out. I donated it to my makerspace in the hopes that one of the geniuses down there could fix it and put it to use there. And then I plugged up the hole that it lived in this desk and made it a desk. Desk? Yep. So now I. I put my laptop in that hole where the mixer had been, and then the monitor sits on top of it.
00:37:27:21 – 00:37:49:24
Shawn McBee
So my laptop’s like not visible. Yeah. So that’s really the the biggest sign of being cured is that the podcast equipment is gone. Except for this one mic and this one like stand. The rest is all still in the house. I haven’t sold off the mix yet. They’re very good mix. I could or the mic stands, but I haven’t.
00:37:49:24 – 00:38:02:02
Shawn McBee
So there is that that little thing. But it would be so much work to put it all back together and I would need to buy a new mixer, which would probably be the road pro caster at this point.
00:38:02:04 – 00:38:31:58
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. I mean it’s it’s a yeah, it gets inside baseball but I, I have the, the first rodecaster pro and it’s, it’s a lot less cables for the internet side of things like what we’re doing right now by compared to the way I used to do it, which I feel like if anybody had seen my old setup, if you were an audio file, you would have been like, that’s amazing.
00:38:31:58 – 00:38:41:47
Agent Palmer
I can’t believe you’re doing that with I can’t believe that’s how you’re doing that. And if you weren’t an audio file, you’d be like, why are there so many cables and what is going on?
00:38:41:55 – 00:38:55:54
Shawn McBee
My setup was so insane because it wasn’t just all audio stuff. It was, you know, hooked up to my computer as well. So I had individual apps to individual pods.
00:38:55:57 – 00:38:56:37
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:38:56:39 – 00:39:22:31
Shawn McBee
Yeah. Because I had one app for, I think on my iPad, I was doing background music and then over here I had sound effects and then I switched it up later. It was a lot. It was just very, very complex setup. It would take me forever to recreate now. But I will say, yeah, that RODECaster. I recorded a a story for.
00:39:22:35 – 00:39:23:57
Shawn McBee
Radio Rental podcast.
00:39:23:59 – 00:39:24:35
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:39:24:38 – 00:39:35:32
Shawn McBee
If you’re familiar with it. Yep. Pain lenses company. I went down to their studio because they’re local to me here and they’re using a RODECaster pro, okay. And that’s a huge podcast.
00:39:35:35 – 00:40:03:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I, I guess the, the, the follow up question I have for you is maybe not so much podcast wise, but would you consider, you know, doing a radio show like, I mean, because I, I, I, I was on I was term limited, but I sat on the local, my local NPR affiliate and one of the board members with me did a jazz hour that he recorded from home.
00:40:03:52 – 00:40:28:27
Agent Palmer
And so I just keep thinking in the back of my head as you’re talking like, well, he’s all you need is a mic and access to the music you’re going to play, and you can record one hour and send it into whatever station you’re working for. I mean, because because is that still? I mean, obviously we talked about a lot of stuff, but like, do you still have an interest in radio?
00:40:28:27 – 00:40:32:12
Agent Palmer
Is that still something that you would be interested in?
00:40:32:17 – 00:40:37:02
Shawn McBee
Yeah, I mean I’m that’s my problem is I’m too interested in too many things.
00:40:37:02 – 00:40:41:55
Agent Palmer
I don’t think that’s a problem. There are too many people that are only interested in one thing. And that’s.
00:40:41:55 – 00:40:42:25
Shawn McBee
A war.
00:40:42:26 – 00:40:47:57
Agent Palmer
Nothing or nothing. Well, but you and I don’t hang out round with those people very much.
00:40:48:01 – 00:41:12:05
Shawn McBee
Yeah, it’s for for podcasting, radio, that kind of thing. It it would have to be like the act itself isn’t what necessarily interests me. It’s getting to like. Like you just talk to people about what they do. Yeah. Because that interests you. Yeah. You’re not you’re not doing it just to record something and put it on the internet.
00:41:12:05 – 00:41:29:11
Shawn McBee
You you are you’re interacting with people that you want to learn about and know things about. Yes. So it’s the same thing for me, like table reads came about because I found a drawer full of my old scripts that I had written when I was in high school, and I was like, oh my God, we should do it was me and my friend.
00:41:29:16 – 00:41:47:19
Shawn McBee
It was like we had written these scripts together. I was like, we should do a podcast where we just read these and mock them. We have so many, we’ll never run out of content. And then we did run out of content pretty quickly, and then moved on to other people’s bad scripts. But not not amateurs. Never amateurs.
00:41:47:22 – 00:42:10:47
Shawn McBee
Yeah, we did a Bill and Ted reboot script, and I actually reached out to the screenwriters to make sure they didn’t write it on spec. Okay. To make sure that, like, a studio hired you to write this, right? And they’re like, yeah, studio hired us to write that great fair game piece. But yeah, that was just like something that I felt like would be fun to explore.
00:42:10:49 – 00:42:29:03
Shawn McBee
Okay. I was interested in Stargirl after show or interested in Stargirl because I knew I could lend a new dynamic to that. And I knew I had access, like, because I knew the whole cast and the creator of the show, and I knew I could get them to come on the show and talk to me, so.
00:42:29:07 – 00:42:53:51
Agent Palmer
But, but, but this tells me that you are the best kind of creative, though, because while you may bounce around a lot, you need something personal. You’re not just going to start a podcast, to start a podcast. You’re not just going to start a prop. To build a prop, you have a vested interest or a fandom or a curiosity for how something works or how it’s built.
00:42:53:54 – 00:43:24:38
Agent Palmer
There’s a reason for doing the thing, and there are many things, and you have many reasons. And that puts you in my book on a pedestal above a lot of people who, well, I can just start a blog or yeah, I could just start a thing and it’s like, I don’t know why you’re doing this. Like, there there are a lot of people out there that are going through the motions because they feel like they need to have a YouTube channel, or they need to have a blog, or they need to have a podcast.
00:43:24:38 – 00:43:40:10
Agent Palmer
And that’s just what everybody else does. And the fact that you can sit there and tell me without an intriguing reason to do so, there’s no reason to do so. I think that’s that’s a message that should be shouted far and wide.
00:43:40:15 – 00:43:50:14
Shawn McBee
Yeah. And you know, the because I can is not the best reason to do something. And I think that’s a big problem with podcasting generally.
00:43:50:17 – 00:43:50:58
Agent Palmer
Oh yeah.
00:43:51:00 – 00:44:07:23
Shawn McBee
Oh yeah. And not not just, you know, there’s the joke that like, you get three white guys together and they’re going to make a podcast and God, that’s so true. But also it became like celebrities took over podcasts.
00:44:07:25 – 00:44:08:01
Agent Palmer
Yes they did.
00:44:08:04 – 00:44:33:24
Shawn McBee
And I think that’s what really, really ruined podcasts is so and it’s not just like so like Donald Faison and Zach Braff have real friends where they talk about scrubs, which is great. Or there’s The Office ladies, they talk about The Office. That’s great. They have that inside track. They’re talking about something they were involved in that people love.
00:44:33:29 – 00:44:35:50
Shawn McBee
That’s not really the kind of thing I’m talking about.
00:44:35:53 – 00:44:51:30
Agent Palmer
No, you’re talking about Covid. When they Spotify and Apple through money at anyone who was willing to start a podcast that had a name above, above, like above the credits in any movie or television.
00:44:51:30 – 00:44:54:30
Shawn McBee
Show, exactly like just and.
00:44:54:32 – 00:45:06:12
Agent Palmer
And none of them are still around, by the way, like, I mean, you and I can’t name any because all of these podcasts died years ago. They they died before Covid was over.
00:45:06:15 – 00:45:35:35
Shawn McBee
That’s like the the, the the big name ones. Yes. You know, like your what was the one that Jim from the office did his, his like good news podcast or whatever. I think he actually sold that. But you know there’s there’s still like celebrities, comedians, they all have these podcasts where they talk about like just whatever. Yeah. And don’t have like a necessary like interesting focus.
00:45:35:39 – 00:46:01:23
Shawn McBee
And what pisses me off about it is that they’re not podcasters. No. No matter how many podcast episodes they make, even Zach Braff and Donald Faison and I was on their show. I love those guys. They’re not podcasters. No, because they’re walking into a room. Yep. They’re talking into a microphone for an hour and they’re walking out, and a whole team of people is doing everything else.
00:46:01:23 – 00:46:09:45
Shawn McBee
They’re not pushing it on social media, they’re not editing. They’re not doing any of that shit. Yeah, they’re just talent.
00:46:09:47 – 00:46:11:37
Agent Palmer
Yes, they’re just talent.
00:46:11:44 – 00:46:28:22
Shawn McBee
And casting is a hard, hard hobby. It’s so much work. I would spend eight hours editing every interview on Stargirl after show, partially because I was interviewing these people about a whole season.
00:46:28:24 – 00:46:29:07
Agent Palmer
Yeah, and you.
00:46:29:12 – 00:46:29:29
Shawn McBee
Had to.
00:46:29:29 – 00:46:30:31
Agent Palmer
Cut out, like.
00:46:30:34 – 00:46:33:19
Shawn McBee
All of the spoilers.
00:46:33:24 – 00:46:33:39
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:46:33:43 – 00:46:39:21
Shawn McBee
For, like, I had to think about when their interview was going to air and cut out anything from beyond that.
00:46:39:24 – 00:46:39:43
Agent Palmer
Yes.
00:46:39:45 – 00:46:46:59
Shawn McBee
And then keep it separate and put the full bonus thing with all the spoilers at the end. But you know, it’s a lot.
00:46:47:01 – 00:47:17:14
Agent Palmer
And well, it’s the same. It’s the same as anything else. It’s like, you know, there is a, a berry. The barrier to entry in almost everything has come way down. But that doesn’t mean anything. And everybody should do anything and everything. There should be a reason, like you should have a passion, a general curiosity, an inkling of what you’re getting into as well.
00:47:17:14 – 00:47:32:37
Agent Palmer
I think there’s a lot of people that start things that look, I mean, when it when it comes to podcasting, there are more dead ones than live ones. And that will continue to be the trend because people start one, do two, and go, I’m done with this. Yeah.
00:47:32:47 – 00:47:37:15
Shawn McBee
And, you know, I’ve lived through the democratization of blank so many times.
00:47:37:18 – 00:47:38:37
Agent Palmer
Oh, God. Yes.
00:47:38:39 – 00:48:16:11
Shawn McBee
Yeah, the digital video revolution, the internet, YouTube or the democratization of filmmaking. Anybody can make a movie now. And it’s it’s all like it doesn’t make things easier for creators. It just makes them have to wade through shit to get noticed. No matter how good your content is, the chances of you rising above the just endless streams of garbage that are being spewed out because it’s been so democratized is, frankly, so difficult.
00:48:16:15 – 00:48:16:42
Agent Palmer
I mean.
00:48:16:42 – 00:48:19:58
Shawn McBee
I’m going through that with a comic even. Oh, which and yeah.
00:48:20:01 – 00:48:20:53
Agent Palmer
No, no, no, because.
00:48:21:05 – 00:48:21:51
Shawn McBee
On other creators.
00:48:21:51 – 00:48:47:09
Agent Palmer
But there would be. So you’re dealing with it twofold though, right? Because not only are there the people that are putting out their comics just to put out their comics that happen to have either money or a printer or whatever, there’s also the Kickstarter that you have to rise above, because there’s an amount of democratization of like, well, anybody can start a Kickstarter.
00:48:47:11 – 00:48:50:47
Shawn McBee
Well, where what celebrities are to podcasts.
00:48:50:49 – 00:48:51:42
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:48:51:47 – 00:48:55:06
Shawn McBee
Smut comics are to kickstarted comics.
00:48:55:08 – 00:48:57:34
Agent Palmer
Oh really? Is that that’s the big.
00:48:57:39 – 00:49:23:21
Shawn McBee
Yeah. Just go go to the comics tab on Kickstarter. And all the top performers are these smut comics. It’s just like, how big can we get these titties? You know how many variants NSW covers can we make? And it’s I’m not saying that there’s not some value to some of those. Some of them are probably actually good comics.
00:49:23:26 – 00:49:33:04
Shawn McBee
We actually have NSW covers just to compete, but we didn’t want to make them like smutty and salacious.
00:49:33:18 – 00:49:33:56
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:49:33:59 – 00:50:04:57
Shawn McBee
Yeah. So our comic is based in Polish folklore. Largely. It’s about a private detective who goes on these cases and encounters mythological creatures, mostly from Polish folklore. Yeah, because my co-writer is Polish. That’s what he was raised in. And there’s this amazing photographer named Aaron Thul who I discovered on Reddit, and she does all these self-portraits that are also based in Polish mythology.
00:50:04:59 – 00:50:05:28
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:50:05:30 – 00:50:31:55
Shawn McBee
And so I reached out to her and I was like, hey, you do Polish mythology, we do Polish mythology. You have titties that you photograph all the time. We need cities on our comic cover. How can we make this happen? And like she so we we were issue one. Her variant cover is absolutely gorgeous. There’s blood. You know, it’s artistic nudity.
00:50:31:58 – 00:50:52:18
Shawn McBee
Yeah, it’s not silly, but we use, like, we went through her library and found something that worked for us. For issue two, we commissioned a photo. Okay. Had her come up with the idea. We have our artists come up with their own cover ideas for the most part. Like, they’ll they’ll give us an idea that may trigger an idea for us.
00:50:52:20 – 00:51:19:21
Shawn McBee
I gotcha, and we’ll take it, you know, down that road. But she did a photoshoot just for us, and I had to tell her, like up front, like. So just to be clear, we need boobs. And I feel like a creep saying it. But as much as I love your art without boobs, part of the whole aspect here is to have that NSF cover.
00:51:19:24 – 00:51:19:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:51:20:02 – 00:51:23:40
Shawn McBee
To to goose the sales. And she’s like, oh, I totally get that.
00:51:23:42 – 00:51:26:30
Agent Palmer
No, it I don’t know, it, it.
00:51:26:33 – 00:51:28:11
Shawn McBee
Very awkward thing to say to a young woman.
00:51:28:13 – 00:51:40:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And it does it does put us in a weird place where it’s like, I don’t like that. That is true. Like, and but that’s, that’s that’s you competing like, I don’t.
00:51:40:15 – 00:51:51:14
Shawn McBee
I don’t know if I were going to get a phrase tattooed on me, it would be that I don’t like that. That’s true. Because I feel like that I, I think that 700 times a day.
00:51:51:14 – 00:52:05:40
Agent Palmer
Well, I, I hope that between all the Kickstarters and, and regular sales, that you not only make it to three, four and five, but that you blow past seven.
00:52:05:45 – 00:52:31:00
Shawn McBee
Me too. We actually have a seven story arcs planned for this comic. All right. And we don’t know how many issues each one is. We’ve only fully written the first story arc. And, you know, when people have a comic story, they always have like some grandiose plan that goes and that’s like kind of one of the big red flags of new creators.
00:52:31:05 – 00:52:50:40
Shawn McBee
It’s like, oh, your plan is too big. Yeah, but ours is more of an anthology. So it’s it’s seven individual stories that add up into a whole story. All right. So we’ve got an A story. We’ve got a B story. That’s a flashback. And that B story, when we get to the end, loops back around to the start of the A story.
00:52:50:40 – 00:53:10:10
Shawn McBee
And basically our seven story arcs form sort of a Mobius strip of storytelling. And, you know, because we need room to adapt, we we only have rough outlines of the other six until we need them, but the first arcs for issues, and then we’ll put out a trade and we’re just going to keep it going and hope that works.
00:53:10:10 – 00:53:28:01
Shawn McBee
And if I ever get more time, I have other ideas that I want to develop into more stories. And I’m really liking the comics medium. I haven’t, like, I’ve always loved comics. Yeah, since I was ten years old and the Batman movie came out. The original Batman movie. To be clear.
00:53:28:06 – 00:53:29:28
Agent Palmer
Keaton love him.
00:53:29:30 – 00:53:42:03
Shawn McBee
Yeah. First Keaton. That movie rewired my DNA. It made me who I am today, which is someone who is too liberal to like Batman’s fascistic tendencies.
00:53:42:08 – 00:53:57:52
Shawn McBee
However. Yeah, I mean, comics have been such a huge part of my life, but I never tried writing them before, and I’m kind of at a point where I’m generally over superheroes. I don’t read a ton of superhero stuff anymore.
00:53:57:52 – 00:54:03:42
Agent Palmer
But you’re enjoying the medium from from both sides of it now? Yes.
00:54:03:54 – 00:54:31:22
Shawn McBee
So like, we’re not writing a superhero comic. We’re doing a horror noir detective mystery. And I feel like if you’re going to tell a story, it needs to be something that’s new, something interesting, something that bends the the capabilities of the medium. And so, like, we’re not just doing words and pictures. I have literally panel layout helping tell the story.
00:54:31:29 – 00:54:32:12
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:54:32:14 – 00:54:44:54
Shawn McBee
I did a real, real deep dive into the mechanics and language of comics before I started writing. If you haven’t read Scott Mccloud’s Understanding Comics, yeah, I recommend it for everybody.
00:54:44:59 – 00:54:45:30
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:54:45:33 – 00:55:17:14
Shawn McBee
It’s a comic about how to understand comics, and I mean, I read it years and years ago before I was ever thinking of making a comic, and holy shit, it will make you appreciate the medium so much. It’s a brilliant, brilliant book, and I recommend it to literally anyone with any amount of interest in comics at all.
00:55:17:19 – 00:55:40:17
Agent Palmer
Off the top, let’s answer your first question. Yes, Sean’s Kickstarter for issue two, the one we spoke of during this episode, was fully funded by over 100 backers, and you can already start to follow the Kickstarter for issue three link in the show notes. In the meantime, let’s talk about this episode. I still maintain that Sean doesn’t have, nor can anyone have too many hobbies, which came up recently.
00:55:40:17 – 00:56:01:38
Agent Palmer
At some point, either on this podcast or in my life, I just can’t remember where. Just know that variety is good and welcome in hobbies. The democratization of blank that Sean was discussing towards the end. I still maintain that the could versus should argument from Doctor Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park is the discussion everyone should have before starting something that appears to be more accessible.
00:56:01:43 – 00:56:26:03
Agent Palmer
Access does not necessitate doing. Which brings me to my third and final point, which is the dismal effect that capitalism has had on hobbies by suggesting or peer pressuring, or just the inevitable seepage of late stage capitalism into our hobbies. Because why should anything be fun when it can be used to create capital of some sort? Look, when everything is about making money, then everything is a job.
00:56:26:05 – 00:56:51:35
Agent Palmer
Hobbies are meant to be for joy and exploration and even, dare I say it, relaxation. Hobbies are for joy. They aren’t meant to be a job. You wouldn’t ask someone to start trying to monetize their recreational reading, would you? Seriously pay no attention to book talk that has issues of the kind that gets communities talking about other communities, which perhaps leads to the final piece of advice you can just read for you.
00:56:51:42 – 00:57:12:29
Agent Palmer
You don’t have to blog about it as I do. Many don’t. You don’t have to TikTok it. Many don’t. That’s one example of a hobby that you can keep to yourself. Friends don’t let friends turn hobbies into jobs, and we should stand up more for our friends who want to do things just because they can. Why does it feel like I’m saying this all the time?
00:57:12:29 – 00:57:37:13
Agent Palmer
It shouldn’t be this hard. Hobbies can be for fun. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 182. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact Sean and myself in the show notes. You can connect with Sean on Instagram or follow the Kickstarter for Western issue three, which is on the horizon.
00:57:37:13 – 00:58:36:43
Agent Palmer
Or perhaps if you’re listening to this in the far future, some further issue. The music for this episode was provided by Hannah Hater. Email and comments can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember your home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent Palmer.
00:58:36:48 – 00:58:37:19
Agent Palmer
All right, Sean.
00:58:37:19 – 00:58:38:55
Agent Palmer
Do you have one final question for me?
00:58:38:57 – 00:58:40:50
Shawn McBee
I do. You you said you have.
00:58:40:52 – 00:58:42:08
Shawn McBee
A one year old, right?
00:58:42:09 – 00:58:43:21
Agent Palmer
I do, yeah.
00:58:43:23 – 00:58:52:11
Shawn McBee
So, what do you think the world is going to look like for your one year old when they are your age?
00:58:52:16 – 00:58:53:16
Agent Palmer
Oh, boy.
00:58:53:20 – 00:58:53:56
Agent Palmer
00:58:54:01 – 00:58:58:13
Agent Palmer
Well, I’m hopeful that the.
00:58:58:13 – 00:59:02:10
Agent Palmer
AI bubble that I keep saying is going to burst will burst.
00:59:02:15 – 00:59:04:29
Agent Palmer
Well before.
00:59:04:34 – 01:00:00:45
Agent Palmer
Their first decade is over. I, I genuinely think that not to get too political, but the rest of the world. I mean, you and I are two Americans sitting in America recording right now. I think the rest of the world is about to take the lead in a big way. And, you know, I’ve had people on this show that from, from, especially from outside of North America that laugh at us because like at the time, I remember the one I remember the most is like someone from, you know, the United Kingdom going like, we look at your Biden and laugh that you guys think he’s left, you know, and I think that the current
01:00:00:45 – 01:00:19:08
Agent Palmer
political climate in the world, as well as in the States, makes it so that the rest of the world is going to have to take up the reins. We’re no longer a world leader anymore. And I think that what that means is, four decades from now, when I don’t have a one year old, when I have a 41 year old.
01:00:19:13 – 01:00:58:37
Agent Palmer
I think the world will look vastly different, but I think it will be vastly better. And maybe we needed to burn it all down and, you know, throw away our leadership for that to happen. Maybe everything was cruising along and the status quo was the status quo. But I think, you know, when you look at just as that example of Joe Biden being left in this country, but more center right everywhere else in the world, when the rest of the world takes that lead, I think we all kind of get a little bit, you know, maybe better off.
01:00:58:37 – 01:01:04:48
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know how long it’ll take to have inroads here. But that’s my hope, because.
01:01:05:03 – 01:01:18:15
Shawn McBee
When you said the rest of the world is going to, like, take the lead. Yeah. My first thought was like how a good chunk of the world took the lead and landed at Normandy.
01:01:18:19 – 01:01:34:23
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it does feel as if it’s not our turn anymore. And I have friends that still believe in American exceptionalism, and I don’t.
01:01:34:27 – 01:01:36:20
Shawn McBee
We are exceptionally stupid.
01:01:36:20 – 01:02:01:57
Agent Palmer
Well, we are, but that’s the thing I don’t. I’ve maybe because I’ve had a lot of transatlantic relationships, you know, as far as, like podcasting, you know, opening me up to talking to people from other parts of the world on a regular basis. I never bought into the American exceptionalism. I never thought we were that much better than everyone else.
01:02:01:57 – 01:02:13:39
Agent Palmer
But I can understand if you if the rest of the world is in us, is a them and we are in us, how you would maybe expect how you would think that I can understand.
01:02:13:42 – 01:02:19:49
Shawn McBee
Well, there’s no child in the world that is taught in school that their country is number two.
01:02:19:54 – 01:02:38:38
Agent Palmer
That’s probably that’s true. That’s true. But there’s also there’s also no country in the world that skews itself. In a way, I remember how poorly my educational background was in middle and high school based on the rest of the world.
01:02:38:43 – 01:02:41:55
Shawn McBee
Yeah. Well, that’s the that’s the thing is, we don’t we don’t look at the rest of the world doing.
01:02:41:57 – 01:02:50:22
Agent Palmer
No, no, we really don’t. And I think that it’s a it’s high time people realize that there are things beyond our waters and our borders.
01:02:50:28 – 01:03:02:02
Shawn McBee
Great ideas. And other people say, well, that could never work. And then you just say, but it works in Sweden, it works in Denmark, it works in Germany. Yeah, healthcare works literally everywhere. But here.
01:03:02:03 – 01:03:25:30
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah. And that’s I think that’s the big one. I mean, I talk to a lot of people not on purpose, mind you, but a lot of people I talked to about what they do. And, and I’m very interested in hobbies, obviously, because I don’t think that any of us should be defined by our day jobs. We should be defined by what we want to be defined by.
01:03:25:40 – 01:03:50:50
Agent Palmer
But this idea that if healthcare were universal and you didn’t have to work for it. What would you do? I think that would. I think the answer would not be what I’m doing now for a lot of people in this country. And I think as a start, that would be a great way to change up everything, because I know plenty of people that just work for health care.
01:03:50:55 – 01:03:56:33
Agent Palmer
What they do. If it was, if it was a given and they didn’t have to work for it. Maybe they’d pick up.
01:03:56:33 – 01:04:01:14
Shawn McBee
Their health insurance would cost me if it weren’t fully covered by my union.
01:04:01:16 – 01:04:03:38
Agent Palmer
I think you’d need two jobs.
01:04:03:40 – 01:04:05:42
Shawn McBee
$20,000 a year.
01:04:05:47 – 01:04:07:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, well, that.
01:04:08:01 – 01:04:11:59
Shawn McBee
My health insurance, just for me and my wife is $5,000 a quarter.
01:04:12:06 – 01:04:42:07
Agent Palmer
It’s it’s it’s absolutely insane that. Yeah, I like it. I just I just know that there are a lot of things broken here, and I don’t know how we fix it, but I do know that if the rest of the world gets better, and I think we’re starting to see that now, I think we are starting to see a crop of Americans who are able go to other countries for a better life.
01:04:42:07 – 01:04:55:37
Agent Palmer
And I think that that is a wake up call to some industries and some people in a way that I don’t know that it would have been otherwise.
01:04:55:39 – 01:05:01:01
Shawn McBee
You can file that under other things that I fantasize about every single day.
01:05:01:05 – 01:05:27:23
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No, I, my wife and I talk about Canada specifically because we could go to four different cities and still have friends. Like, I mean, the fantasy for some people is I’ll go to Europe or I’ll go to, you know, Portugal or I’ll go to Spain. And for us, it’s where can we go that we already know people.
01:05:27:28 – 01:05:37:13
Agent Palmer
So we’re not starting over from scratch with no friends. Not that I wouldn’t be able to make friends. I think that that’s something that I think, you know, I.
01:05:37:13 – 01:05:44:17
Shawn McBee
Mean, with me, the issue is more whether because we’re in Atlanta and this is as cold as my wife will take it.
01:05:44:24 – 01:05:45:27
Agent Palmer
Atlanta.
01:05:45:29 – 01:05:46:10
Shawn McBee
Yeah.
01:05:46:12 – 01:05:53:41
Agent Palmer
Well, global warming, the global warming will help a little bit. I think that will open up your options a little bit. But, that’s.
01:05:53:41 – 01:05:54:48
Shawn McBee
Always a silver lining.
01:05:54:50 – 01:06:20:29
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah, I that I’ve my thing is when my wife and I talk about it, I always tell her that for myself, I’m the opposite of your wife. Like, I’m in Pennsylvania and this is as south as I will go, because I. I would prefer my summers not be as hot. I don’t really care about how cold my winters get.
01:06:20:37 – 01:06:27:51
Shawn McBee
On the other hand, if I could afford to move to another country, I can probably afford a second home.
01:06:27:55 – 01:06:44:18
Agent Palmer
I although moving to another country and having health care be a given, might mean that what you make now is enough to afford a second home. Yeah, I don’t I, I think.
01:06:44:21 – 01:06:52:47
Shawn McBee
It will. Like I said, I don’t actually pay my health care. Well that’s all fully employer covered through my union because unions are great.
01:06:52:49 – 01:07:04:51
Agent Palmer
Yes, unions are great. I just I think overall in the next four decades I think we’ll see a better global, a better global world in some capacity, I.
01:07:04:51 – 01:07:12:31
Shawn McBee
Hope faster than that because I’m 47 already. I don’t want to be 87 by the time democracy is real again.
01:07:12:36 – 01:07:31:54
Agent Palmer
That’s true, that’s true. But I will say it. It’s taken this long for the internet at large to burn down every promise from 25 years ago, that maybe it’ll take at least a few decades to to build it back up.
01:07:32:01 – 01:07:42:58
Shawn McBee
That is a good question. If you could go back and make the internet not happen, would you give up the convenience of having the sum of all world knowledge in your pocket?
01:07:43:01 – 01:08:07:01
Agent Palmer
Yes. Yeah. I always like to asterisk it by saying, if nothing else, if I had to keep the internet, I would never allow it to go faster than dial up, because I think that would be that. That would be the key. You and I are old enough to remember waiting on the internet for an answer. Yeah, and so I think that it could still be in your pocket.
01:08:07:01 – 01:08:17:20
Agent Palmer
But you may be, you know, but you’re on a 28. Let’s get let’s say I give you a 56. Six. All right. That’s fine. But you’re going to wait for an answer. And so.
01:08:17:25 – 01:08:21:58
Shawn McBee
I think it’s algorithms that are really the main.
01:08:22:01 – 01:08:44:59
Agent Palmer
But I still think it’s speed. I think it’s that instantaneous nature. I think if even with the algorithms, if I made you wait for it, you might be you, you, you know, we come from an era where sometimes the more accurate answer came from the encyclopedia, and it was also the quicker way to get the answer.
01:08:45:06 – 01:08:56:49
Shawn McBee
Yeah, but if you think about the way algorithms are, like you go, you if if you right now need to replace a gasket on your toilet and you go to YouTube.
01:08:56:51 – 01:08:57:51
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I can find.
01:08:57:54 – 01:08:59:51
Shawn McBee
Someone ask it on your toilet.
01:08:59:54 – 01:09:00:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:09:00:13 – 01:09:07:48
Shawn McBee
Well the issue becomes now you’ve replaced the gasket on your toilet, but YouTube thinks you only are interested in replacing toilet gaskets.
01:09:07:51 – 01:09:33:16
Agent Palmer
Well, that and so just this is the thing though, right? And I get, I get crap from my wife and from my friends and my parents, most of my family. For this I guard my YouTube algorithm, I, I incognito so much in order to maintain a standard in my algorithm that is. Yeah, right.
01:09:33:16 – 01:10:02:40
Shawn McBee
But not everyone does. And the point is that because of those algorithms wanting to feed you more of what they think you already like, that creates the wormholes and that creates the radicalization. Yeah. And that is why we are where we are, where people are just in echo chambers and seed back loops and only seeing the things that reinforce their preconceived notions.
01:10:02:40 – 01:10:29:41
Shawn McBee
It’s we live in a world of confirmation bias, just constant, unending fire hoses of confirmation bias. And if someone had at the beginning said, okay, the way we need to set up the internet is so that people are given intentionally rounded out information. Yeah. Then, so, you know, if you’re looking up.
01:10:29:43 – 01:10:30:02
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
01:10:30:07 – 01:10:43:30
Shawn McBee
Why do vaccines cause autism and you’re getting a variety of information instead of just going down that autism. Yeah. Rabbit hole. I think that would solve a lot of problems and let us have the internet.
01:10:43:33 – 01:11:08:07
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, we’ll find out because I think that, the my been I’ve been talking about an AI bubble for a while, and I believe that the, the server farms that are being approved against the wishes of those who live in those neighborhoods, that’s going to be the first line of the revolution.
01:11:08:10 – 01:11:23:57
Shawn McBee
I can back you up on your on your AI bubble thing. I saw the best evidence that it is a bubble ready to burst. Yeah, a couple of weeks ago. Did you hear about all birds? No. Okay. All birds. You know, the the the shoe company.
01:11:23:59 – 01:11:30:28
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is this was they they switched to AI and their stock like, went through the roof.
01:11:30:30 – 01:11:38:56
Shawn McBee
Okay. So a company that makes wool shoes says we’re not going to do shoes anymore. We’re going to do AI. That’s already the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard it.
01:11:38:58 – 01:11:39:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah it is.
01:11:39:56 – 01:12:08:33
Shawn McBee
But then the stock market going oh well let’s boost up their value 800%, literally 800%. That’s not hyperbole. That’s the number that happened at this shoe company saying we’re going to do AI now, despite having absolutely no experience or any any sort of anything to indicate that they’re going to be good at that because it’s the buzzword.
01:12:08:35 – 01:12:09:11
Agent Palmer
Yep.
01:12:09:21 – 01:12:16:06
Shawn McBee
Their stock shot up like that. That is a bubble. That is the.com bubble all over again.
01:12:16:08 – 01:12:25:56
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think there’s an amount of willful ignorance that the.com bubble happened. And and so those are.
01:12:25:58 – 01:12:27:27
Shawn McBee
You go to Pets.com every day.
01:12:27:29 – 01:12:37:19
Agent Palmer
Still I think the problem is that Amazon.com survived. Right. Like I think people only think of the ones that did survive. But yes.
01:12:37:24 – 01:12:39:33
Shawn McBee
Hold on. Let me let me ask Jeeves about that.
01:12:39:36 – 01:12:55:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Well, I mean, that’s the thing, I miss GeoCities. I think that when we talk about, like, the early internet, GeoCities might have been the pinnacle of what it was. There were neighborhoods. There was randomized a way to get around in a random way.
01:12:55:30 – 01:12:57:10
Shawn McBee
And so many gifts.
01:12:57:18 – 01:13:04:20
Agent Palmer
All all the gifts and so much black with flashing colors.
01:13:04:25 – 01:13:05:12
Shawn McBee
Yup, yup.
01:13:05:20 – 01:13:12:53
Agent Palmer
But it was a nicer internet. I mean, it may have looked like crap, but it was such a nicer place to be.
01:13:12:58 – 01:13:15:14
Shawn McBee
Yeah, it was before social media.
01:13:15:14 – 01:13:21:14
Agent Palmer
Well it was. Yeah, yeah. Well that when that when GeoCities was social media that was. Yeah.
01:13:21:16 – 01:13:22:59
Shawn McBee
Yeah, it was for me actually.
01:13:23:02 – 01:13:23:23
Agent Palmer
It was.
01:13:23:35 – 01:13:26:04
Shawn McBee
An early chat room where we did role playing.
01:13:26:04 – 01:13:27:16
Agent Palmer
I remember I.
01:13:27:21 – 01:13:31:44
Shawn McBee
Was and I used GeoCities to make a, to make a website about it.
01:13:31:47 – 01:13:35:32
Agent Palmer
All right. We got to go before our back pain medicine stops working.
01:13:35:42 – 01:13:36:32
Shawn McBee
Yeah.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).