Episode 178 features Phil Gerbyshak, who’s teaching, which is what he originally went to school for, but his story and trajectory are anything but linear as you’ll hear.
We also discuss writing origins, reading, curiosity, trying new things, being brave or is it just confidence and how no is an acceptable answer.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Happiness Practices with Phil Gerbyshak
Other Links
It’s (Almost) The End of the World As We Know It
‘Incredible, edible egg’ campaign proves the power of the pitch
An Avid Reader’s Guide to a Methodical Book Purge
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:04 – 00:00:21:51
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer. It’s almost the end of the world as we know it. Incredible edible egg campaign proves the power of the pitch. And since last episode, I’ve been trying to think of my movie moment. This is The Palmer Files episode 178 featuring Phil Gerber. Shack, who’s teaching, which is what he originally went to school for. But his story and trajectory are anything but linear as you’ll soon here.
00:00:21:51 – 00:00:34:36
Agent Palmer
But we also discuss writing, origins, reading, curiosity, trying new things, being brave or is it just confidence and how no is an acceptable answer. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:34:41 – 00:00:48:40
Phil Gerbyshak
21 years I’ve been writing online because I had an outlet. I would say I’m not for everybody, though. You’re not for everybody. None of us are. And I think that’s okay.
00:00:48:45 – 00:01:08:15
Phil Gerbyshak
I would argue the world would be better if we could all do what we wanted to do instead, what we have to do. I hate to say this, Jason, but I almost don’t have any goals anymore. I just kind of live. I remind myself of that every day. I am built to do hard things.
00:01:08:19 – 00:01:14:05
Phil Gerbyshak
Like how do you do so much? I just do well, how does that happen? It does.
00:01:14:09 – 00:01:36:30
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason Sturgis, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 178th episode is Phil Gerber. I was introduced to fill by my mother, who sent me something he wrote, and from that I invited him on the show. And all credit to my mom here who continues to share stuff with me professionally through her network, but also all the memes she can find, though I don’t always react as she wishes.
00:01:36:30 – 00:01:59:19
Agent Palmer
But what came from that article shared with me is what you are about to hear a conversation where Phil and I discover our similarities and our differences, where we dig into what it’s like being a teacher. Phil’s writing, origin writing when inspired, finding our voices, not having any more goals, taking time to slow down, avoiding burnout, doing, not remembering, and much, much more.
00:01:59:19 – 00:02:18:08
Agent Palmer
But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listen or afterward, you can find all related ways to contact Phil and myself in the show notes. You can connect with Phil on LinkedIn or read his Happiness Practices with Phil Substack at Happy AF Substack. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on Agent Palmer.
00:02:18:13 – 00:02:28:48
Agent Palmer
And of course, email can be sent to the Palmer Files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:28:53 – 00:02:30:26
Agent Palmer
Phil, I.
00:02:30:31 – 00:02:36:43
Agent Palmer
Just a cursory glance at your LinkedIn would have me classify you as a teacher, a writer, and a speaker.
00:02:36:45 – 00:02:37:38
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah. That’s right.
00:02:37:40 – 00:02:43:47
Agent Palmer
Is there one that you would lead with that you’re, I guess, more.
00:02:43:51 – 00:02:49:18
Phil Gerbyshak
About teaching. Okay. I would write often, and sometimes I get called to speak.
00:02:49:23 – 00:02:50:04
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:02:50:07 – 00:02:51:42
Phil Gerbyshak
So I would say I would say teacher.
00:02:51:44 – 00:03:03:44
Agent Palmer
Okay. So first then thank you for being a teacher. I feel like it’s it feels like a profession that doesn’t get enough respect, even though we all admit it needs to.
00:03:03:46 – 00:03:11:02
Phil Gerbyshak
Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah. It’s fun man. I’m glad to be a teacher. This is my first year. My second semester teaching.
00:03:11:02 – 00:03:13:24
Agent Palmer
So did you always want to be a teacher?
00:03:13:26 – 00:03:17:24
Phil Gerbyshak
I know, I mean, 29 years ago, I went to school to be a teacher.
00:03:17:26 – 00:03:18:07
Agent Palmer
Okay?
00:03:18:12 – 00:03:39:06
Phil Gerbyshak
I never finished my degree. Magically, two years ago or so, I decided, you know what? I think I want to teach again. So I’m going to go and substitute everywhere that I can. So I substituted at probably 20 or 30 different schools, but every single age range from little kids to from three year olds all the way up high school kids and everywhere in between.
00:03:39:08 – 00:03:59:14
Phil Gerbyshak
So I did that, and then magically, I got a job. I more permanent sub job, if you will, for three months at a tech school. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. And then they had a job open up. So I applied and I got the job and I still don’t have my teaching degree, but I’m going for it now.
00:03:59:14 – 00:04:07:40
Phil Gerbyshak
And now I’m now I’m teaching and I’m, I’m, I’m certified to teach because of the program that I’m in. I just don’t have my degree yet.
00:04:07:40 – 00:04:16:35
Agent Palmer
So what was like the the was there something specific about like I want to go back to teaching. Was it was it just time?
00:04:16:42 – 00:04:39:00
Phil Gerbyshak
I think it was time. I think that it’s been a calling for a long time. I taught adults for a long time. Being a sales trainer. I trained a lot of adults being a salesman, a guy, right. I trained a lot of adults. So I said, you know what? Maybe, maybe kids is something that I can do full time because I’ll tell you, man, being on my own is a grind.
00:04:39:00 – 00:05:00:10
Phil Gerbyshak
I like to be part of a team, okay? And I didn’t get that working for myself at all. Even even working on a team, I still was often one of just a couple, and we didn’t get a chance to really collaborate as much as I like. Although at my last job at HR when I worked there, I definitely got to work as a team and that was fantastic.
00:05:00:15 – 00:05:06:46
Phil Gerbyshak
Moved to Ohio and that job unfortunately had to go away because they weren’t licensed to have me in Ohio.
00:05:06:46 – 00:05:18:19
Agent Palmer
So from the last couple semesters and your previous experience. What’s easier, adults or kids to, to to, I guess impart wisdom to.
00:05:18:21 – 00:05:38:01
Phil Gerbyshak
Boy, I don’t know, I think adults are probably a little easier because most adults that pay you good money to to learn want to learn. Okay. And so they’re really engaged or at least somewhat engaged. Kids are tough because there’s 30 of them, 20 of them in the class at a time. And you have to really kind of entertain is the wrong word.
00:05:38:01 – 00:05:56:26
Phil Gerbyshak
But I don’t have the right word, each of them differently. You have to engage them all differently. So I think that’s much harder in the classroom. I have no authority really over them, other than the fact that I’m a teacher and they don’t have to listen, and many times they don’t. So that’s very hard for me. I like to work.
00:05:56:26 – 00:05:59:09
Phil Gerbyshak
I really enjoy people who want to learn.
00:05:59:12 – 00:06:06:23
Agent Palmer
Have you been, I guess, a curious have you been a lifelong student? Is that I guess is what I’m asking?
00:06:06:26 – 00:06:30:38
Phil Gerbyshak
Absolutely, yeah. I had my own podcast. I did 535, 550 episodes of a podcast myself because I’m curious. I would talk to people. I mean, I read everybody’s book. I would be curious about them. I didn’t go back to I didn’t take any formal schooling, although now I’m back in school formally, but I didn’t take any over the last 25 years since I got my degree.
00:06:30:38 – 00:06:34:00
Phil Gerbyshak
But I definitely would consider myself a lifelong student. Absolutely.
00:06:34:05 – 00:07:02:25
Agent Palmer
So I can ask you this. It’s not too in the weeds, but I do find that maybe more as a podcaster than a blogger. When I read a book that I like that’s modern or contemporary, I go, I wonder, like, everyone’s a potential guest, right? And I do wonder how much that that it doesn’t color anything because I don’t have any expectations that, like, bestseller bestselling authors are going to say, yes, you know, it’s fine.
00:07:02:25 – 00:07:10:10
Agent Palmer
I’m not afraid of rejection. You know, if if you have a guest run show, you’re going to get a lot more nos than you get yeses, right?
00:07:10:12 – 00:07:10:24
Phil Gerbyshak
Yep.
00:07:10:24 – 00:07:30:30
Agent Palmer
That’s right. I do wonder, like, am I am I clouded a little bit in my judgment, in that everybody’s a potential podcast guest and everybody’s a potential, and anything is a potential post for the blog. Like everything’s I don’t like the word content necessarily, but I’m always looking out for inspiration and everything could be insulation.
00:07:30:32 – 00:08:00:35
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, everything. Well, I think that’s the curiosity, though. You want to be curious and everything is potentially content. Everything is but inspiration because if we’re open to it, everything can inspire us and everything can should change our worldview. I mean, I can tell you, I learn every day, right? I learn I read a lot on Substack every day about AI and about neuroscience and stuff like that that I don’t honestly know much about.
00:08:00:35 – 00:08:16:06
Phil Gerbyshak
So every day I’m learning, every day I’m trying to do something a little different because I want to bring that to my students. Okay? Now instead of wanting to have them as a podcast. Yes. Now I’m thinking, oh boy, I’m wondering if I could zoom in and have them be one of my one of my guest lecturers. So it’s the same.
00:08:16:08 – 00:08:22:41
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah. I have you run into any hurdles as far as being a lifelong student?
00:08:22:46 – 00:08:41:16
Phil Gerbyshak
Well, I think AI has changed the game because AI makes things faster. I don’t have to research like I once did using air quotes there. I can throw it in the chat and I can find ten sources without half trying. Okay. And I can compare those ten sources much easier than the gather in a large language model like Google Notebook.
00:08:41:16 – 00:08:57:42
Phil Gerbyshak
And I don’t think that’s a challenge, but it’s an opportunity. But it does make me go a little shallower than I used to go. I don’t read as many books that I once did. Jason. I read, I read a lot more short form and I put them together to make longer form. But I don’t always read the books that I used to read.
00:08:57:54 – 00:09:02:01
Phil Gerbyshak
And that’s in the last year. That’s frankly because I just don’t have time now as a teacher.
00:09:02:03 – 00:09:03:44
Agent Palmer
Do you do you miss it, though?
00:09:03:46 – 00:09:24:57
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, of course I miss it. I mean, they’re they’re still some books I’ve got. Hope is the strategy. I got Wiley to send me a copy of that. I’m going to I’m going to do a I’ll do a written interview with the author of the book. But yeah, I’m missing, man. I miss being able to being able to read a book a week.
00:09:24:59 – 00:09:26:42
Phil Gerbyshak
I don’t have the kind of time anymore.
00:09:26:52 – 00:09:29:52
Agent Palmer
Were you? What were you reading like anything.
00:09:29:54 – 00:09:38:25
Phil Gerbyshak
On business and nonfiction? I would read one fiction book a year. I used to joke. I read that one fiction book a year or that I want to or not.
00:09:38:30 – 00:09:41:32
Agent Palmer
Well, is there a reason it just doesn’t speak to you or.
00:09:41:44 – 00:09:58:38
Phil Gerbyshak
I think I was. I’m always trying to put what I learned into practice, okay? And I don’t know, the fiction allows me to do that as well. Or, you know, certainly it cultivates the creativity in my brain. Absolutely. It just doesn’t necessarily create content that I can then deliver to somebody else.
00:09:58:43 – 00:10:20:20
Agent Palmer
Yeah. I mean, I, I guess having a blog and being able to review any book kind of gives me that outlet, so to speak. So it didn’t really matter. I mean, I right now I’m trying to read all the books in my house, which is a challenge because I was one of those people that was a collector, like I was a reader, but I was a collector of books.
00:10:20:22 – 00:10:41:04
Agent Palmer
Guilty. And so now I’m it started during the pandemic when I was like, I would like to save some money. Who knows what the future holds. So I’m just going to I’m not going to buy any new ones. I’ll read what I’ve got, which is admittedly quite a bit. And so I’m bouncing between fiction and nonfiction as a way to break it up.
00:10:41:04 – 00:11:01:51
Agent Palmer
But I do have an outlet regardless, right? Like, I could just review every book so it doesn’t like I don’t have to worry about it. But I will say, and I wanted to ask you, because I know you do write about the books that you do read. I find that maybe. Now look, and I’ll admit, maybe it’s being 40, maybe it’s being older.
00:11:01:56 – 00:11:26:14
Agent Palmer
I can write a book review or commentary of something I’ve read now, and I feel like I’m finally comprehending it better because I take notes while I’m reading, because I look back over those notes and then try and put into words to tell you like, hey, Phil, this is what I think this book is. You know, maybe you’ll like it, maybe you won’t.
00:11:26:16 – 00:11:40:46
Agent Palmer
I feel like this is what I was supposed to be getting when I was in high school. I just I could never get my head around it then. And it’s. And even in my 20s, I don’t think I was reading, but I don’t think I was getting the comprehension I’m now getting.
00:11:40:49 – 00:11:56:52
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think being 52, I’d say I’m the same way. I think I’m finally getting it as well. I think some of it is we do slow down enough to actually enjoy the book and learn from the book, as opposed to, I have to read this for school.
00:11:56:55 – 00:11:57:19
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:11:57:22 – 00:12:16:03
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, I think that’s really hard, right? Having to read it for school changes the game. Yeah, because there’s no more there’s no more enjoyment. It’s like exercise. Having been forced in gym class to do push ups. I hate push ups. Okay. Not because I really hate push ups. In fact, I quite enjoy them when I get to do them for fun.
00:12:16:03 – 00:12:26:10
Phil Gerbyshak
When I used to get to do them in the Navy when it was competition, that was fun. But in a gym class, yeah, I, I don’t like that so much. And I think it’s the same way with books.
00:12:26:10 – 00:12:42:28
Agent Palmer
So let’s switch from the the written word of consuming it to writing. You have been prolific is a word I would use on whatever platform you happen to be on, because I know you’ve jumped around a little bit. Were you always a writer? Was that always a thing?
00:12:42:31 – 00:13:07:12
Phil Gerbyshak
No, I think there was 20 years where I didn’t write anything when I was growing up. I wrote, I wrote to, to try to write. I remember going into Mrs. Games class, getting a copy of the Sonnets by Elizabeth Barrett Browning and Robert Browning, and learning to write poetry to try to impress girls. Okay, so I remember that I had a creative writing class.
00:13:07:12 – 00:13:32:04
Phil Gerbyshak
Mr. Murray taught me a whole lot about writing, but creatively writing, getting prompts. I had a class in college about that, but then I stopped because I didn’t have anywhere to write. I didn’t think I had anywhere to write. And then when blogs started out, you know, I remember it’s 21 years now. I’ve been writing online, Jason, 21 years I’ve been writing online because I had an outlet, I had a blog, and I could write.
00:13:32:04 – 00:13:49:29
Phil Gerbyshak
And I’ll tell you, at first I was afraid of my own voice. I didn’t write my own stuff. I would write commentary about books that I’d read. I would take a quote from somebody else, and I’d give my take on the quote. But that’s not writing like I do now. Now I just write. I don’t mean anybody else’s commentary, too.
00:13:49:29 – 00:13:57:40
Phil Gerbyshak
Right now I can just write, and I feel really fortunate about that. But to that’s a long answer to your question of I’ve always been a writer. I don’t think so.
00:13:57:43 – 00:14:15:27
Agent Palmer
So you and I are similar in that in when you started, I was just getting out of college, and in college I wrote for the college paper. So I had an outlet of some kind, and some of it was hard journalism, and some of it was soft journalism, and some of it was sports, and some of it was editorial.
00:14:15:27 – 00:14:41:19
Agent Palmer
And then and that was probably my last outlet until I started the blog, because in between there, to your point, I mean, yeah, blogs existed, but it wasn’t until I decided to start one that I had an outlet. Right? And so there was that dark period, I guess, where I wasn’t a writer and then starting a blog, I think, I think I found my own voice a few years in.
00:14:41:21 – 00:15:06:43
Agent Palmer
I mean, obviously we don’t we don’t. I started similar to you. Right? Like, here’s an idea, here’s the thing I want to share. And now I can do a little bit more if I want. And I’m just I don’t want to I want to say lazy because it’s the only word that pops into my head. It’s not lazy, but I am a strike while the irons hot kind of a guy, so I am lazy in that if I don’t have an idea, I won’t be writing.
00:15:06:43 – 00:15:08:31
Agent Palmer
I’m not forcing myself to write.
00:15:08:31 – 00:15:10:07
Phil Gerbyshak
But you’re not going.
00:15:10:10 – 00:15:12:22
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I did read Seth Godin, actually.
00:15:12:24 – 00:15:21:28
Phil Gerbyshak
But you’re not set, right? That’s what we did. Oh, yes. Practice Anthony in Reno to write every day. Is there practice? That’s not my practice either. Jason.
00:15:21:28 – 00:15:47:36
Agent Palmer
Okay. Yeah, I think what Stephen King is the same thing. Just write for four hours every day. It’s like, that’s fine. And I. I made an attempt because I have a friend who swears by journaling. Okay. And I tried it for a full week and I may try it again, but my approach at that time was put, put some time aside where this is all you’re going to do, and you’re going to sit down and you’re going to write.
00:15:47:39 – 00:16:03:52
Agent Palmer
It’s not it doesn’t have to be for the blog. It can be, but it doesn’t have to be. It could be just getting thoughts out. Whatever. I found that it was the most negative stuff, but for for whatever reason, I wasn’t getting it out. Like I was just putting it on paper and then thinking about it for the rest of the day.
00:16:03:52 – 00:16:22:53
Agent Palmer
So I was like, this is not working for me. Like, I just not and I, I do want to get back to a little bit, I like you. I also wrote poetry to impress women. I haven’t in a long time. I kind of want to get back to it. It feels like I need to go back to writing, not blogs, I guess.
00:16:22:56 – 00:16:23:44
Phil Gerbyshak
Oh, there you go.
00:16:23:46 – 00:16:42:24
Agent Palmer
I don’t know where to start. And again, it’s I feel like treating it in that when inspiration hits go. I just haven’t had any inspiration for for verse I guess is the thing. Yeah. Oh man. Whole like I need to write, but I don’t need to write every day. I think it’s.
00:16:42:29 – 00:16:56:30
Phil Gerbyshak
Not right now. Sam. Yep, yep I mean, I was that I, I surprised myself with my weekly newsletter because I write 3 or 4 months ahead sometimes and when it comes out I’m like, oh, that was really good. That’s good advice for me. Oh wait, I wrote that. Good for me.
00:16:56:32 – 00:17:20:38
Agent Palmer
I’ve, I’ve, I’ve done it where I used to maybe ten years ago, have a fairly large Twitter community that due to the change in Twitter, everybody went to different platforms. So I don’t really have the same community I used to, but at that time I was still kind of like I am now, where I’d write ahead like you do and schedule stuff out and somebody would, like write a quote and like, tag me in it.
00:17:20:38 – 00:17:39:44
Agent Palmer
I’d be like, that’s really good. Where did you get that? And they’re like, oh, you. That’s from your post really like and I, I’m approach I don’t know what I’m approaching. Right. Like it’s it’s it’s it’s decades old I don’t think it’s, I don’t think I’m at 21 years yet, but I know I’m over a decade and so I don’t remember.
00:17:39:44 – 00:18:04:54
Agent Palmer
And the same is for the podcast too. Like, I know people that have recorded thousands of episodes and can still quote guest and episode number. Right? Like, and I’m just like, thank God, like I, I keep organized with spreadsheets, like where I can go like this date, this title, or like this date this guest without those. Yeah. And without them in front of me.
00:18:04:57 – 00:18:11:52
Agent Palmer
Don’t ask me about my show or my blog because I, I might remember, I probably won’t remember.
00:18:12:01 – 00:18:12:20
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah.
00:18:12:23 – 00:18:42:11
Agent Palmer
And it’s I think this leads me to my next question for you, which is I am like that not because I don’t honor and enjoy what I’ve done, but I’m always looking for what I’m always looking ahead at what’s next. Yeah. And so it’s really hard for me to think about it like, yeah, I can sometimes if I’m really bad at it, like I draft stuff, but I forget to schedule it and then I’m like, oh, this has got to go out today.
00:18:42:14 – 00:18:49:09
Agent Palmer
Okay. But most of the time I’m far enough ahead where like, I don’t remember what’s coming out this week.
00:18:49:23 – 00:18:49:59
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah.
00:18:50:01 – 00:18:53:13
Agent Palmer
Do you have any tips like. Or is it just that’s just the way it is.
00:18:53:25 – 00:18:59:18
Phil Gerbyshak
Yes. I think that’s the way it is for a lot of us, especially if we write when we’re inspired and we don’t write as a practice.
00:18:59:32 – 00:19:00:01
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:19:00:03 – 00:19:21:02
Phil Gerbyshak
I think I think that happens because we write when we were inspired, when we’re not, we’re not even necessarily thinking about writing. Although it happens, we might pop up and get an idea. I mean, you talked about journaling. I’ve tried journaling. I journal now and then. I’m not I’m not a good practice journalist. I’m a better practice writer than I’m a journalist.
00:19:21:02 – 00:19:42:05
Phil Gerbyshak
I promise to write one article a week, 7 a.m. Monday morning, come hell or high water every single Monday. And that’s my goal there. And I think I missed one since I moved to Substack. So I think that’s there because I wanted to write to. I was writing Mondays and Thursdays, and then I realized that my drop off between Monday and Thursday was high.
00:19:42:08 – 00:20:03:33
Phil Gerbyshak
So I’m like, well, forget it. I’ll just write Monday. But, you know, to your question there, I really don’t think that there is a way unless you just remember everything what someone said. I mean, I can’t even remember the name of my I know that I had someone on my podcast, I can tell you that. But who they are, like what they wrote about, like what book they were talking about.
00:20:03:35 – 00:20:23:34
Phil Gerbyshak
Especially because most of my, most of my folks are authors. I don’t remember which book they were pitching when. Okay, so I’ve had Tom Peters as a guest sometimes. He’s probably my all time favorite guest. I’ve had gotten a couple times as well. He’s probably number two. I’ve had him a couple of times. What did I talk about with him?
00:20:23:41 – 00:20:39:48
Phil Gerbyshak
And don’t know, I was just in the moment and I was really present with them, and I wanted to make sure that I honored the time that I had with them, as opposed to trying to memorize it so that I can show off and say, you know, when Seth was on my show and he said this, I don’t ever want to be that guy.
00:20:39:55 – 00:21:11:48
Agent Palmer
It’s I yeah, it’s really it in a separate world. Like, that’s one of the reasons that I’m getting in as far as, like, networking these days where I, I can’t come up with anything fancy to lie about because I can never remember what it was. So I just tell the truth, and I’ve, I and this is a conversation that’s probably going to be going on or a theme within the the podcast for a while, because I talked to a lot of different people.
00:21:11:48 – 00:21:34:42
Agent Palmer
And when we get to here, I always say like, the thing about it is I’m most I’m, I am comfortable with I don’t know. And I know a lot of people aren’t and that’s, you know, that’s, that’s a thing. But I am. And so while it’s disappointing to people when they ask, like, how can I help you? What do you want to do?
00:21:34:42 – 00:22:15:51
Agent Palmer
And I say, I don’t know, I know at least I’m being true to myself. Like, no, Phil, I appreciate that you’re asking the question, but I don’t know the answer. So I’m not going to lie to you and say that I want to be a writer. As an example, I’m just going to say I’m not sure. And so but I here and this is the thing that keeps going around in my head and over the last few episodes, and even just the last few conversations I’ve had in my personal life, I think that because I’m like a full time student all the time and I’m always reading stuff, but I’m always challenging myself in books
00:22:15:51 – 00:22:33:19
Agent Palmer
that I wouldn’t normally read. Look, if you read all the books in your house, you’re going to read some stuff that you are wondering how it got in your house. Okay. And that’s kind of the fun of it. But it I’m I’m comfortable not knowing. And that’s kind of why I think I’m always searching and always looking and going further.
00:22:33:19 – 00:22:36:12
Agent Palmer
But I understand that’s not for everybody, right?
00:22:36:14 – 00:22:53:59
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, I would say I’m not for everybody though. You’re not for everybody. None of us are. And I think that’s okay. And by that I mean how you do things and how I do things and not how everybody needs to do things. It’s just how I do things, and it works for me. You know, I’m much the same as you when people ask me how they can help me.
00:22:53:59 – 00:23:13:36
Phil Gerbyshak
I actually moved to I don’t know to you know what? I don’t have anything right now. But if I did, I’d let you know. Okay, so. Because frankly, I don’t have anything right now. Like people like, what do you want to promote? Nothing. Information. Right. Like, I want you to go deeper. If you want to go deeper with me, I want you to check on my Substack.
00:23:13:36 – 00:23:31:23
Phil Gerbyshak
But I’m not trying to monetize you. I mean, I offer the ability to pay on Substack because it’s an experiment. I want to see if it’s not work or not. I want to see what that engine looks like. I want to see it in the hood, which is pretty fun. But that’s not for everybody, you know, I’m leaving.
00:23:31:25 – 00:23:45:29
Phil Gerbyshak
I read Matt Collier and Mac is all about maximizing subscriber value. Fantastic. That’s what he wants to do. Fantastic. Go for it, man. That’s just not me. That’s totally cool. I think that’s great.
00:23:45:29 – 00:24:15:18
Agent Palmer
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you saying that because I, I’m, I’m not I’m I guess my whole thing for the blog and this podcast is that I’m maximizing it for me, because if it wasn’t fun for me, I wouldn’t be doing it right. So that’s right. It’s really hard. I enjoy talking to people, but I, I reaching out to strangers on the internet and trying to just go through the motions.
00:24:15:23 – 00:24:26:32
Agent Palmer
It wouldn’t feel right to me. I maybe I could, you know, I think maybe I’m good enough. I could fake through it, like maybe some listeners wouldn’t know, but I would.
00:24:26:34 – 00:24:27:58
Phil Gerbyshak
And that’s no.
00:24:28:03 – 00:24:30:50
Agent Palmer
That’s the end. That’s where the buck stops. Really?
00:24:30:53 – 00:24:37:38
Phil Gerbyshak
Yep. That’s right. Yeah. I think you’re you’re intellectually honest enough to tell yourself that if you’re faking it, you don’t want to do it.
00:24:37:40 – 00:24:38:27
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:38:28 – 00:24:48:42
Phil Gerbyshak
Why not? So why so then why do it? Right. I think that’s why we write as an inspired writers and poets writing as a practice. Because I don’t want to fake writing. Writing is kind of sacred to me.
00:24:48:47 – 00:25:12:29
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. And I. Let me ask then, are you because I, I have this, I have this, like, weird tick when it comes to writing where sometimes I will throw alliteration and just because I can, it doesn’t necessarily belong. It would probably be better as like a spoken word thing, but sometimes it’s really fun to throw in.
00:25:12:31 – 00:25:27:25
Phil Gerbyshak
Absolutely, absolutely. Because it is fun. And we’re just fun, man, I mean, tomorrow. You’re right. I’ll give you my joke that I’m going to post on my LinkedIn tomorrow. Ready? What’s wrong? And sticky.
00:25:27:30 – 00:25:30:06
Agent Palmer
I have no idea what’s brown and sticky.
00:25:30:11 – 00:25:33:11
Phil Gerbyshak
A stick.
00:25:33:16 – 00:25:46:32
Phil Gerbyshak
See that joke? An awesome joke. It’s one of my favorite jokes of all time because it’s like, you know the answer. You just don’t know. You know the answer. So for me, super fun. I’m throwing that in tomorrow’s LinkedIn post.
00:25:46:34 – 00:26:08:28
Agent Palmer
So it’s the reason that I love the Marx Brothers. I love the Marx Brothers. I wouldn’t necessarily I would say some of their jokes are high brow, but a lot of their jokes are just like, you’re sick joke. Like they’re just they’re they’re perfect. They’re not low brow. They’re not high. Rather just it’s just the definition of a joke.
00:26:08:40 – 00:26:15:35
Agent Palmer
Yeah. We’re going to do a play on words. And as long as you’re all right with a pun, you’re going to have a good time.
00:26:15:39 – 00:26:31:50
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, yeah. So I for, for like 30 days, 40 days I shared a bad I called it a Groner my Groner of the day on Facebook. And some of my friends are like oh boy. Here we go. Some of my friends laughed. I don’t care if you laugh or not. It’s for me. I’m laughing.
00:26:31:53 – 00:26:57:37
Agent Palmer
That’s. Yeah, I, I think that it’s one of the disservice of the current, I guess. God, I hate to use the word meta in this context, but as far as people that make things on the internet, as they’re not more, there are more. There are less of us, you and me, than there are people out there that are just going through the motions because I have to do this.
00:26:57:39 – 00:27:10:58
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I think overall, you know, I’m going to get on a soapbox with my generalization here. I think the quality of things on the internet would be better if people did it because they wanted to, and not because they felt they had to.
00:27:11:00 – 00:27:19:43
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, I was agree. I mean, I think I would argue the world would be better if we could all do what we wanted to do instead of what we have to do.
00:27:19:45 – 00:27:20:43
Agent Palmer
Oh well, yes.
00:27:20:47 – 00:27:25:33
Phil Gerbyshak
Yes we can’t. So therefore we have to put up with some of the sludge.
00:27:25:38 – 00:27:26:14
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:27:26:16 – 00:27:31:37
Phil Gerbyshak
And I think that’s okay. You know, some people I just tried my best not to read them.
00:27:31:40 – 00:27:35:25
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah. And you, you know it when you. It’s.
00:27:35:30 – 00:27:35:49
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah.
00:27:35:49 – 00:27:47:46
Agent Palmer
It’s, it’s like that that famous definition of pornography. Right. Like I’ll know it when I see it or whatever. That’s right. You know, and I, I think it’s the same of you, you know, when people are going through the motions, you can tell.
00:27:47:48 – 00:27:48:21
Phil Gerbyshak
That’s right.
00:27:48:22 – 00:28:00:00
Agent Palmer
And then you just put it aside. So what, you have written books, you have been a speaker. You are a teacher. Like what’s left, what’s like, what have you not done?
00:28:00:11 – 00:28:21:44
Phil Gerbyshak
So I haven’t hosted on a formal radio show. I have been on TV though. Okay, that’s been fun. I love that, having hosted my a formal radio show yet, I have been on a sports talk show. Okay, that my buddies screen, so kind of a smaller one, but that’s fun. Let’s see, what have I not done?
00:28:21:46 – 00:28:41:38
Phil Gerbyshak
I don’t know, man, I don’t know. And I say that I would have told you that before I started teaching, though I don’t know what else there is to do, but I’m sure I’ll find something. I’m sure find something, because my goal is to teach for 15 years. I’m going to teach on 67, and if that works out great, and if not, then great, but I’d really like it to work out.
00:28:41:40 – 00:29:04:22
Phil Gerbyshak
I’m really enjoying it. I’m learning every day. The kids are fantastic. They’re incredibly challenging. The administration is spectacular. I’ve got great coaches to help me. But what’s next for me or what else could I do on I don’t know, whatever, whatever is out there I would like to do. I mean, maybe I’d like to get back to maybe I’d like to get paid to host the show.
00:29:04:32 – 00:29:24:40
Phil Gerbyshak
Okay, I don’t know, because I’ve gotten sponsors. Tell us the show. You know, I got paid a little bit, so I guess that counts, right? Host never got paid to be on TV yet, but I’ve been on TV lots of times back home in Wisconsin when I want to go on TV, I messaged them with a show idea and if it’s good enough, then they put me on the show.
00:29:24:50 – 00:29:25:26
Agent Palmer
Nice.
00:29:25:26 – 00:29:42:13
Phil Gerbyshak
So that works out pretty well. And so far so good. They like me on the show, so I’m keep coming back and then we’re so. Okay, let’s see what else might be next. I always said that I wanted this traditionally published a book. I don’t know if that’s the case anymore. I used to want to buy a lot of orange.
00:29:42:13 – 00:29:54:21
Phil Gerbyshak
Course I don’t anymore. Okay. That’s. I mean, it’s no interest to me, but I’m sure there’ll be something. I mean, I, I hate to say this, Jason, but I almost don’t have any goals anymore. I just kind of live.
00:29:54:24 – 00:29:54:48
Agent Palmer
Well, no.
00:29:54:48 – 00:29:56:07
Phil Gerbyshak
That would be the best.
00:29:56:07 – 00:30:16:23
Agent Palmer
But that’s not. I don’t see that as a problem. I see that as something that to aspire to. I mean, honestly, I might be having having heard you say it like that, maybe I don’t have any goals either, because I am just here and I have conversations with people. I meet new people. Sometimes I get a new idea, sometimes I don’t.
00:30:16:25 – 00:30:35:48
Agent Palmer
I’m lucky in that I’m surrounded by talented people. I’m unlucky in that those talented people are super busy. So even if I have a great idea for them, it probably not going to happen for a while, right? And I understand that. But I can have a good idea and give it to somebody else. I’m not right. I’m not beholden to.
00:30:35:55 – 00:30:49:09
Agent Palmer
It’s my idea. So I have to do it. And so I, I think the idea of not having a goal is fine taking what comes. But I don’t know that I could have said that five years ago or even ten.
00:30:49:11 – 00:31:04:34
Phil Gerbyshak
Exam. Same, right. I wanted a lot, of course, until the last couple of months. And then I’m like, you know what? I’m really fine not having one. I really wanted a house on the beach. You know what? I’m really fine that having one, I can go rent a house on the beach and spend a week there if I want to.
00:31:04:36 – 00:31:06:05
Agent Palmer
You could probably even rent the porch.
00:31:06:08 – 00:31:23:38
Phil Gerbyshak
And I probably could rent the porch. Right. Depending on where I am. Yeah, absolutely. Which is really crazy to think about. Like, I can get that. I can get that hit for a week instead of getting it for a lifetime. Yeah, $97,000 on a brand new course. Instead I can drive one for a week for a thousand bucks.
00:31:23:40 – 00:31:25:02
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah. Or whatever.
00:31:25:04 – 00:31:26:49
Agent Palmer
Yeah. What was it about? The Porsche.
00:31:26:52 – 00:31:28:54
Phil Gerbyshak
Just was my favorite color, first of all.
00:31:28:57 – 00:31:29:59
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:31:30:04 – 00:31:41:39
Phil Gerbyshak
Love that. And the push goes really fast. And I like speed, I really do. So, you know, put them together. And lava orange. Lava orange only comes in a Porsche.
00:31:41:41 – 00:31:42:15
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:31:42:20 – 00:32:00:43
Phil Gerbyshak
So I’m practical sometimes. I was actually hoping that it would come in their SUV, but you have to get a custom paint job if you want an SUV. Okay, so the next thing is more practical. I like to be able to haul stuff around. I like to be able to be comfortable. I don’t want to be crammed in a sports car, you know?
00:32:00:55 – 00:32:15:54
Phil Gerbyshak
So I actually talk myself out of wanting a lot more in force because like I said, it’s too cramped, it’s too fast. I’m going to get in trouble, and I don’t like to be in trouble. That’s no fun for me. That’s, you know, that’s just me.
00:32:15:56 – 00:32:48:23
Agent Palmer
I mean, I, I feel like my days of being in a sports car, like, I, I recently because we had a kid, I and my, my old Mazda three was 20 years old or 18 or it could vote basically. And I was like, all right, it’s time to give this up and get like an actual SUV. But I remember my car before that was a boxy old Jeep Cherokee that shouldn’t go past 85, but I had that thing up to 110.
00:32:48:25 – 00:33:04:38
Agent Palmer
It was like the Millennium Falcon, like it would shake at a certain speed, but it would still go, yeah, yeah. I think a sports car is probably not something I should aspire to. Yeah. I also can’t be like, if that if I could do that in a Jeep.
00:33:04:43 – 00:33:05:29
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:05:32 – 00:33:21:47
Agent Palmer
And I yeah I yeah it’s yeah. It’s. So let me ask then you like speed and we’ve talked about a lot of things that you are doing and have done. Do you get a chance to slow down. Is that is that a a regular occurrence.
00:33:21:47 – 00:33:43:24
Phil Gerbyshak
I do now, yeah. I take my time after school. Most days I plop I because I’m wiped out man. Kids. Kids drain me, man. They totally make me tired because they make me think in 30 different ways every class. And it’s really hard. And I got to think about how to engage them. So yeah. So I slowed down every day after school.
00:33:43:29 – 00:34:03:23
Phil Gerbyshak
Almost every day I take a nap, slow it down, take 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour nap. That’s really important. I’m my parents are older now, so I take more time for them as well. Okay. That’s. So there’s six. My mom is six hours away. My dad is nine. So I drive to see my mom. I drive to see my dad whenever I can.
00:34:03:26 – 00:34:22:49
Phil Gerbyshak
I’m going to take my spring break probably, and spend time with them and be with them for a couple days over spring break, because I know they’re not going to be around. My dad’s 79, I’m on 75, and I feel really grateful that they’re still healthy, still around, still want to see me, don’t have any dementia or Alzheimer’s, knock on wood, right?
00:34:22:49 – 00:34:44:42
Phil Gerbyshak
So far. So that’s how I slow down. I did listen to a fiction book this year already, which is amazing. I listened to Twice by Michelle. It was fantastic. I probably listened to another one. I’m halfway through one. I hope I get through it. If I don’t, I don’t. So I’m slowing down that way and I’m walking more.
00:34:44:47 – 00:34:47:39
Phil Gerbyshak
I’m going for walks. Are you on.
00:34:47:42 – 00:34:50:58
Agent Palmer
To when you’re walking? Headphones. No. Headphones.
00:34:50:59 – 00:34:53:11
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah. Yeah. Always. Headphones. Yeah.
00:34:53:13 – 00:34:54:49
Agent Palmer
Music podcast.
00:34:54:51 – 00:35:15:02
Phil Gerbyshak
Audiobook almost always music. Now I was podcast when I was, when I had a day job, it was all about being the best. So I was all about how do I pump as much information into my ears so that I can learn more and be the absolute best at being a sales enablement guy now that I’m a teacher?
00:35:15:02 – 00:35:31:49
Phil Gerbyshak
Not that I’m still striving to be the best man, but I have a coach now, and we and I try to implement one new thing a week because that’s enough. The kids. The kids would freak out, but didn’t do much. I would freak out if I did too much. So now it’s one thing a week. So was it.
00:35:31:54 – 00:35:40:56
Agent Palmer
Was it the was it that go go go and the getting all the information. Is that the reason that you’re slowing down more now.
00:35:41:01 – 00:35:59:52
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, I think so I think so I was really in capture all the time trying to be as smart as I could. I mean, you know, to your point about being able to review books, I got more business books than I can shake a stick at, man. Oh my gosh. Like any author, Harvard Business Review sends me their books.
00:35:59:52 – 00:36:24:05
Phil Gerbyshak
I get Felicia sinuses, sends me books from let’s see, Burke sends me books. I get books from Kate Hendricks. I can get books from pretty much anywhere business related, because I had a podcast and I was trying to pump all into my head, man. Well, now I’m like, let’s not do that anymore. Let’s really try to experience his learning.
00:36:24:10 – 00:36:36:21
Phil Gerbyshak
I’m not taking on new projects for work. People ask me, so if somebody called me and asked you to speak when you do it, I can honestly say, I don’t know. I don’t think I would. Okay, I’m pretty happy not doing it.
00:36:36:26 – 00:36:53:37
Agent Palmer
Is this like, I mean, I guess if I went back and asked and if, if, if I took what we just talked about and I sat you down ten years ago and had you listened to it, would you believe it was actually you?
00:36:53:42 – 00:37:16:21
Phil Gerbyshak
No way man. No no no no no no I would go go go baby I was go go go. And I was networking all the time I had been so my gosh some my and I would throw events to make sure that I had people in them. I mean, Jason, my 40th birthday party, I had some hundred people at my going away party when I left Milwaukee 15 years ago, to 15.
00:37:16:21 – 00:37:35:08
Phil Gerbyshak
Now I can’t exactly remember, but whenever I left Milwaukee, I brought 400 people together because I wanted to connect them all before I left. And there’s still many of those people are still friends, so I love that. That was really fun. And I say that in the past tense.
00:37:35:11 – 00:37:49:48
Agent Palmer
Well, so I it I mean, this does come up because I have to I like it I hearing you talk about it and I know it was fun and it sounds like it was amazing. But I have to ask, were you approaching burnout?
00:37:49:51 – 00:37:50:38
Phil Gerbyshak
I don’t think so.
00:37:50:41 – 00:37:51:43
Agent Palmer
Okay. You could have.
00:37:51:43 – 00:38:18:56
Phil Gerbyshak
Kept potentially, and it was really fun. And I don’t think I was I think that, you know, I was doing I love just like I do now. Okay. I just I just love less now. But certainly I think burnout is about who you’re at. And I’ve been really fortunate that I was I’ve been able to surround myself with some amazing, amazing people that make sure that I don’t get burned out because they’ve be so my cup all the time.
00:38:19:01 – 00:38:43:19
Phil Gerbyshak
I was never pouring it out of an empty cup, okay? I was always happen more full, and the people that that are my friends still pour into me. And I think that’s really important. That’s how you avoid burnout. It’s not about doing more or doing less. It’s about are you getting your cup filled? In fact, I would argue now here in Ohio, I have less friends and I feel more burned out some days.
00:38:43:25 – 00:38:47:28
Agent Palmer
Are you? So would that make you an extrovert or an introvert?
00:38:47:30 – 00:38:53:13
Phil Gerbyshak
I’m an extrovert. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure I get I get pumped up being around people.
00:38:53:16 – 00:38:56:56
Agent Palmer
That’s the that’s the first thing you and I are opposed on.
00:38:57:01 – 00:38:58:08
Phil Gerbyshak
You’re an introvert.
00:38:58:22 – 00:39:14:14
Agent Palmer
I, I enjoy people, but I’m more tired after like, I could, I could like I could easily be at your 400 person event and I could easily work the room. I’d need a few days to recover from it.
00:39:14:19 – 00:39:14:45
Phil Gerbyshak
Sure.
00:39:14:48 – 00:39:39:06
Agent Palmer
That wouldn’t feel. I mean, I’m not saying I wouldn’t have fun. I’m not saying I couldn’t do it, but I. It would empty my cup to do that. And then I’d need the the the just me and my family just, you know, to to kind of start filling it up a bit. Although I it is, it is weird because I, I, I’m also an introvert with a podcast and I, I reached out to you right.
00:39:39:08 – 00:39:44:10
Agent Palmer
Like I’m not it’s not you know, so it’s not like I’m just closing in on myself.
00:39:44:15 – 00:39:59:28
Phil Gerbyshak
You know, to use Dan Pink’s word. And everybody to sell is human. You’re an amateur. Then you flip your your version based on who you’re talking to. And how are you talking to them? Yeah. And sometimes you need to fill your cup with one thing. Sometimes you need to fill your cup with the other thing.
00:39:59:31 – 00:40:17:30
Agent Palmer
Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. I, I, I do find it weird because I always thought that turning like the ability to turn it, I guess I always took the ability to turn it on for granted. I always just assumed that other people could do that too.
00:40:17:39 – 00:40:26:41
Phil Gerbyshak
Oh, no, that’s funny. I didn’t do and then. And then it’s work because it’s work for most people.
00:40:26:43 – 00:40:27:10
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:40:27:12 – 00:40:33:24
Phil Gerbyshak
But again, I think that’s your curiosity at play. You’re not really turn it on. You’re just being curious again.
00:40:33:29 – 00:40:52:40
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. That’s fair. I, I wonder if I ever lost it because obviously I wasn’t I’m a I’m a reader. I turn I’m, I’m back into being a reader again and the blog has helped with that. But I would say from college, maybe ten years after college, I wasn’t really reading, I wasn’t really writing, I wasn’t doing either of those things.
00:40:52:40 – 00:41:09:24
Agent Palmer
And now, while I don’t do them well, I do the reading daily. But like I, I don’t think about them. I just do them when I can. And I can’t imagine living without them, but I can. I can go back, I know for, for at least a decade I didn’t do either.
00:41:09:29 – 00:41:09:55
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah.
00:41:09:58 – 00:41:12:26
Agent Palmer
That sounds wild to me now.
00:41:12:31 – 00:41:13:00
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah.
00:41:13:02 – 00:41:21:33
Agent Palmer
And I guess that’s kind of where you’re, I you give me hope because you didn’t know you were going to be a teacher, but now you can’t imagine not.
00:41:21:35 – 00:41:22:23
Phil Gerbyshak
Right.
00:41:22:35 – 00:41:29:47
Agent Palmer
All right, well, so whatever’s next, don’t know what it’s going to be, but it it it’ll be wonderful. Like.
00:41:29:49 – 00:41:32:04
Phil Gerbyshak
Absolutely be open to. Yes.
00:41:32:08 – 00:41:33:32
Agent Palmer
You have to be open to. Yes.
00:41:33:35 – 00:41:51:22
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, I think so. I think that’s, it’s there’s one thing to kind of my life it’s being open to. Yes. Because I really have no idea what’s next. I really have no idea what else I’m going to do, but I know that I’m going to say yes, and I know it’s going to be fantastic, even if it’s really hard.
00:41:51:24 – 00:42:04:47
Phil Gerbyshak
Like this. Teaching is really, really hard. It’s really hard and I love it. It is awesome. It is really hard. I remind myself of that every day. I am built to do hard things.
00:42:04:57 – 00:42:06:49
Agent Palmer
Were you always that way?
00:42:06:54 – 00:42:25:48
Phil Gerbyshak
A lot of things seem easy, so no, I don’t think so. Okay, things seem really easy, but I guess looking back, I do a lot of hard things. I got my brokerage license. That was hard. I got a job on in Silicon Valley, was a company that served Wall Street. That was really hard. But at the time, that’s just what I did.
00:42:25:51 – 00:42:42:26
Phil Gerbyshak
I didn’t think about it. I just did, you know, I mean, talking to South Dakota is a big fucking deal. That was hard. I had to reach out to him. That was hard. At the same time, I didn’t think about it. I just, you know, I wanted to add value to him. He’s got a book coming out. That’s what you’d be interested in coming out on my podcast.
00:42:42:28 – 00:43:02:25
Phil Gerbyshak
I’d love to have you mentioned book. And once you said no and 2 or 3 times you said yes, okay. That’s cool. I mean, Tom Peters told me you didn’t have anything to talk about. And I’m like, you’re crazy. We should take one of your slide decks and just talk about that for an hour. Yeah. You know, so I don’t know.
00:43:02:29 – 00:43:07:43
Phil Gerbyshak
I always have always done hard things. I don’t know, I don’t think so, but maybe I did.
00:43:07:46 – 00:43:13:14
Agent Palmer
When you were pitching guests to be on your show. Were you ever afraid of. No.
00:43:13:26 – 00:43:18:55
Phil Gerbyshak
No, no, I didn’t care. In fact, I got pitched more than I pitched.
00:43:19:09 – 00:43:19:50
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:43:19:52 – 00:43:43:46
Phil Gerbyshak
So I was not afraid of no, because no was always an acceptable answer. Has to be. I mean, when you ask somebody a question. Now, that being said, I’ll tell you, it’s hard and the rest of my life sometimes ask for fear. But no, but not in my podcast because they’re rejecting the show premise or they rejecting the fact that that I only have, you know, X amount of listeners or whatever.
00:43:43:53 – 00:43:48:03
Phil Gerbyshak
Okay. That’s fine. You’re not rejecting me. Nobody said, Phil, you suck.
00:43:48:03 – 00:43:49:17
Agent Palmer
News.
00:43:49:22 – 00:43:50:53
Phil Gerbyshak
On your show.
00:43:50:58 – 00:44:11:52
Agent Palmer
Yeah, no, that’s fair. I it’s it’s the one place where I’ve learned to not fear rejection, that I’ve allowed it to not feel. I’ve allowed it to permeate the rest of my life. So I don’t really. Everything else is just kind of the same. Right? But I need guests. This. This would be boring if I was talking by myself.
00:44:11:52 – 00:44:31:05
Agent Palmer
And so I need guests and I’m going to get more nos than yeses. And so that’s just the that’s just the number. It’s just the numbers game. This is the way it works. And you have to get used to that. And when I was looking for a job after I looked for a job before I had the podcast, then I was afraid of rejection.
00:44:31:07 – 00:44:51:06
Agent Palmer
Looking for a job. After you have a podcast? Yeah, that’s guest based that you get. So like, I’m so used to the word no, I don’t even ask why. It doesn’t bother me at all. And when I was looking for a job, for me the hardest part was the the the the ghosting. No was one I like.
00:44:51:11 – 00:44:52:32
Phil Gerbyshak
I was wonderful.
00:44:52:35 – 00:45:17:24
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah I celebrated no. In fact, even to this day when I pitch or just ask somebody to be on the show a no, if you told me no, you’d get a thank you for me because I am so happy you’ve responded it all. In fact, I would say that no is more rare than yes these days because it’s either a yes or I don’t.
00:45:17:26 – 00:45:18:24
Agent Palmer
Or crickets.
00:45:18:38 – 00:45:19:31
Phil Gerbyshak
Yep.
00:45:19:36 – 00:45:23:40
Agent Palmer
You say no, I’m going to I’m going to send you a wonderful thank you.
00:45:23:45 – 00:45:25:14
Phil Gerbyshak
It’s awesome.
00:45:25:16 – 00:45:44:58
Agent Palmer
It’s just and I, I in turn try and do the same thing when I get pitched. Well, I mean, I always try and say yes. I mean, I, I started my, my podcasting career was well, I mean, it’s still ongoing, but I started with over 100 episodes on other guest appearances on other people’s shows before I started my.
00:45:45:00 – 00:45:45:56
Phil Gerbyshak
Own same.
00:45:45:58 – 00:46:00:47
Agent Palmer
And there was a part of me for a long time that was like, why should I start my own? It’s so much fun to just show up and talk. I don’t have to edit. I can promote that episode, but I don’t have to promote it over and over and over. Heck man, like, what do we what am I doing?
00:46:00:47 – 00:46:08:59
Agent Palmer
But I mean, I’m thankful I took the plunge, but I think seeing it done over a hundred times from the other chair probably more valuable.
00:46:09:04 – 00:46:20:53
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, I agree, I agree. I did the same thing. I was going to talk to people, shows I would do a text interview, but I didn’t want to do the editing. So guess what? So I just went live and I never edited an episode.
00:46:20:56 – 00:46:44:23
Agent Palmer
Okay. And were you? I have been a guest on some shows that were live. So I’m and I think now I’m a lot more comfortable than like the first time when somebody like, all right, you’re, there’s no safety net. It’s like, oh, oh no, there’s no there’s no editor is going to save me from myself. Were you always I mean, it took me a while.
00:46:44:28 – 00:46:46:23
Agent Palmer
Were you, were you good from the get go?
00:46:46:26 – 00:46:59:25
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah. Yeah. I’m actually more comfortable live because I know I can’t edit, and that way I don’t have to worry about it. Then I don’t think about what I said. I think about what I have yet to say, okay? And it makes it a lot easier for me.
00:46:59:27 – 00:47:06:03
Agent Palmer
So that that must make teaching super easy. Like, not easy, but it must make being in front of a classroom easier.
00:47:06:05 – 00:47:22:55
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, that’s the easy part. The hard part is the curriculum. Because I’m teaching technology. I’m teaching them how to how to code. I was looking ahead at my slides for next week and I’m like, wow, how am I going to teach this to these kids? It’s really hard.
00:47:23:04 – 00:47:25:35
Agent Palmer
Where did you have a tech background as well?
00:47:25:40 – 00:47:26:47
Phil Gerbyshak
I was a VP. It.
00:47:26:49 – 00:47:27:47
Agent Palmer
Yeah, okay.
00:47:27:54 – 00:47:32:40
Phil Gerbyshak
That’s actually where I got started writing. I started writing management articles for Slacker Manager.
00:47:32:42 – 00:47:33:23
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:47:33:27 – 00:47:35:18
Phil Gerbyshak
That’s actually how I know your mom. Jason.
00:47:35:18 – 00:47:35:59
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:47:36:01 – 00:47:53:24
Phil Gerbyshak
Because I would write Slacker Manager and I had a management blog and then, yeah, she and I met in Chicago 2009, 2008, something like that. Yeah. And yeah, she happened to be speaking at an event in Chicago, and I happened to be in a blogger conference.
00:47:53:26 – 00:47:57:09
Agent Palmer
I got to say, I.
00:47:57:14 – 00:48:24:00
Agent Palmer
Your story is just I love it so much. And part of it is that you, you I mean, at any step, it would have been enough. Like, you didn’t have to start writing, you know what I mean? Like, you didn’t have to start writing. You didn’t have to start speaking. You didn’t have to start a blog. Not like you had a good career and that could that at to to many people that could have been enough.
00:48:24:15 – 00:48:24:39
Agent Palmer
Right.
00:48:24:41 – 00:48:25:00
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah.
00:48:25:03 – 00:48:47:52
Agent Palmer
But I don’t know if it’s that that curiosity and that open to. Yes. And that. Well why wouldn’t I. I guess it’s the, why wouldn’t I that I appreciate because it’s I, because I’m, that’s kind of where I’m at right now where I don’t know what’s next. And some people give me ideas and I’m like, I don’t think that’s for me.
00:48:47:52 – 00:49:05:29
Agent Palmer
And I’m willing to say that. But some people give me ideas. I go, I could try that, but you aren’t. You never settled. And that’s I don’t know if you’ve heard this, but, Phil, that makes you very unique because a lot of people in your original position wouldn’t have started writing.
00:49:05:34 – 00:49:06:41
Phil Gerbyshak
I suppose that’s true.
00:49:06:48 – 00:49:26:04
Agent Palmer
That would have been enough. That would be where they were. They would have moved up or moved over to another company. They would have stayed a VP until they could have gotten promoted to CEO or executive or president, and that would have been that they wouldn’t have. I wouldn’t call yours a lateral move, but they wouldn’t have gone, hey, I’m going to do this other thing.
00:49:26:06 – 00:49:41:49
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah, but moves though. I never moved up. I hit my spot and then I moved around. I became a director, became a VP again. It wasn’t individual contributor, you know, I moved around almost all lateral, some even down because I wanted to try new things.
00:49:41:53 – 00:49:42:10
Agent Palmer
I mean.
00:49:42:13 – 00:49:43:32
Phil Gerbyshak
It’s not it’s fine.
00:49:43:34 – 00:49:53:45
Agent Palmer
Why? I it’s kind of like saying it’s like hearing you talk about it and saying it. It makes a lot more sense. But like, was it ever scary doing it.
00:49:53:48 – 00:50:11:44
Phil Gerbyshak
After I did it? After I said yes, sure. I mean, I saw days where I’m scared to teach. I’m like, what am I doing here? Like, these kids are so smart, man. They work really hard sometimes and some don’t work hard at all. What am I? Why did they pick me? For sure? I have some days like that.
00:50:11:59 – 00:50:15:20
Phil Gerbyshak
I had to someone’s. After I do it, I always jump first.
00:50:15:23 – 00:50:15:54
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:50:15:56 – 00:50:34:21
Phil Gerbyshak
I was jump first. I mean, I was never I was afraid of not having any money at my own, but I was never afraid of the work I was doing. The work I was doing was always a good work, and I think that’s what kind of held me on there is that even though I was in an unfamiliar, uncomfortable situation, I knew that I figured my way out before.
00:50:34:21 – 00:50:35:31
Phil Gerbyshak
So I would again.
00:50:35:33 – 00:50:57:34
Agent Palmer
I think that’s there’s your next book. Like, people need to know that. Like, I don’t think people appreciate that where they are, wherever they are, was not easy to get to. I think I think that, you know, and again, your story specifically, especially because you you are willing to jump first.
00:50:57:37 – 00:50:58:15
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah.
00:50:58:18 – 00:51:08:34
Agent Palmer
That’s I don’t know. Do you, do you feel brave because it feels like I mean listening listening over here. Fail is brave okay.
00:51:08:43 – 00:51:25:42
Phil Gerbyshak
Thank you. I don’t feel brave. I just feel like I do what I do. Like people ask me, like, how do you do so much? I just do. Well, how does that happen? It does. I don’t know, I just say again, I say, yes, you know, how do you get on a podcast? People ask me and I say, yes, I just read a book.
00:51:25:45 – 00:51:48:55
Phil Gerbyshak
I said, somebody tell me I should write a book. So I did, you know, how do you how did you become a teacher? Well, actually, somebody cannot be and said, hey, we have a job opening. And Corin, are you interested? Yeah. Should apply. Okay, I’ll try that. That sounds fun. I’ll give it a shot. Why not again? I’m open to.
00:51:48:55 – 00:52:11:44
Phil Gerbyshak
Yes. So I think that’s more than brand. Jason. I think I’m just willing to take the take a leap. And I don’t think it’s brave so much. Maybe something just. I’m. I’m confident enough to know that I can figure anything out.
00:52:11:49 – 00:52:31:34
Agent Palmer
Things I knew before this conversation that Bill helped me reiterate no is an acceptable answer. If you’re faking it, you don’t want to do it, and you should be open to yes. But what I wasn’t prepared for was the part of our conversation about not having goals anymore. And I have to say, since this was recorded, that thought has comforted me.
00:52:31:34 – 00:52:57:49
Agent Palmer
It isn’t that I have no ambition, but I’m doing what I want to do. I take chances, things happen, things don’t happen. I continue to be able to create. In addition to fostering the relationships I have and filling my cup as necessary. Perhaps not having goals is a temporary state. It took Phil a while to get there. He no longer dreams of driving a lava orange Porsche, but maybe something new will arise and you just know he’ll be open to it.
00:52:57:51 – 00:53:18:00
Agent Palmer
Perhaps I’ll also arrive at some new goal in the near or distant future, but for now, remember this it’s okay to be happy where you are. The unending grind of hustle culture doesn’t allow you to breathe unless you get out of hustle culture. And while Phil says you should be open to yes, he’s finally out of the hustle.
00:53:18:02 – 00:53:39:37
Agent Palmer
He’s burnt himself to a crisp and has come out on the other side. And if you’ve been listening to this podcast for more than one episode, you know that others have seen their way through burnout two it’s not hopeless. Just remember, you can do it. You just have to be open to it. So be good to yourself and remember that everything isn’t for everyone.
00:53:39:37 – 00:54:04:18
Agent Palmer
We all have our own things and that’s okay. Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 178. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact Phil or myself in the show notes. You can connect with Phil on LinkedIn or read his Happiness Practices with Phil Substack at Happy AF Substack.
00:54:04:23 – 00:54:59:25
Agent Palmer
The music for this episode was provided by email, and comments can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember your home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent Palmer.
00:54:59:30 – 00:55:01:09
Agent Palmer
Do you have one final question for me?
00:55:01:10 – 00:55:05:10
Phil Gerbyshak
So what’s your next lead? What are you going to do next, Jason.
00:55:05:15 – 00:55:36:03
Agent Palmer
So it’s it’s dangerous because, you know, the you know, obviously I have a kid now. And I think at one point though, you know, we we were pretty behind the I, I don’t know, we kept it close to the vest. Right. We didn’t tell a lot of people, I think fatherhood was the next leap, and especially because I’m the stay at home dad.
00:55:36:08 – 00:56:06:02
Agent Palmer
And so I am, well, adjusting. I mean, I never realized how set in my ways I was as far as, like, routine until you’re taking care of a little baby who then becomes an infant, who then be like, who? Who’s routine, who likes routine. But it changes from this month to this month or from this week to this week.
00:56:06:02 – 00:56:15:01
Agent Palmer
And so I’m not sure what my next leap is, because at the moment I’m just trying to keep up.
00:56:15:06 – 00:56:16:32
Phil Gerbyshak
Yeah.
00:56:16:37 – 00:56:43:23
Agent Palmer
And I, I it’s, it’s a challenge and I think it’s, it’s a similar thing to, like and I know I’m going to I know we’re not into the language development yet, but while I’m excited to get there, I also know that I’m going to be taking a leading role in language development. And so I think that’s probably my next big leap.
00:56:43:28 – 00:56:53:39
Agent Palmer
And then obviously the the idea person in me is like, but, but don’t force the kid behind the mic yet.
00:56:53:44 – 00:57:00:22
Agent Palmer
Like we can wait. There will always be time. But in my head I’m like, oh that.
00:57:00:28 – 00:57:03:13
Phil Gerbyshak
So that so you really unique every day then.
00:57:03:15 – 00:57:33:54
Agent Palmer
I mean, it feels that way. It was a lot easier, before the crawling. Right. Like before movement and motion happened when it was like, all right, you’re there. I’m here. Okay. Like that. And now movement happens, you know, as we’re recording this, it’s warming out, so we’re getting outside. We’re not walking yet, but I’m sure by the time this releases, who knows, right.
00:57:33:54 – 00:57:59:19
Agent Palmer
Like the there’s a lot there’s a lot there. I think it’s one of those things I think I always took for granted that we, I would eventually have a kid and then through a comical relationships, it was like, oh, well, I’ll just be alone forever. And then, through coincidence, met my now wife. And then we had a kid.
00:57:59:19 – 00:58:20:03
Agent Palmer
And so part of that was being open to. Yes. When we met, we met through a podcast community, and she was in Phoenix and I was in Pennsylvania, and we were long distance for quite a while, and we were open to it. And then I asked her to move in with me and she said yes, and it’s kind of been a well.
00:58:20:05 – 00:58:44:23
Agent Palmer
And then she was here for a year and Covid happened and the world shut down. And we, you know, thank God we were a when we were a long distance relationship. We talked a lot. So we really knew each other. We weren’t one of those couples that during the pandemic got to know each other. There wasn’t much. We hadn’t been turned over in each other, so to speak.
00:58:44:30 – 00:59:13:29
Agent Palmer
So now it’s just trying to be there. And, I you know what? I think my next thing is not for me. Steph had a blog and at one point a before the pregnancy that gave us a child, she was streaming on Twitch, and she hasn’t been back to streaming since. And she she’s slowly starting to write a little bit more guest posts on my blog.
00:59:13:33 – 00:59:44:24
Agent Palmer
I would love to see her go back to her own full time, whatever the full time means. Once a month, twice a month, I, you know, whatever that is. And so I’m, I’m slowly trying to push that out. At the same time, I’m trying to get other friends to do other things. I have a podcaster who went on hiatus who I’m trying to get back on Mike or, you know, like for right now, my next big thing has a lot more to do with pushing other people into theirs.
00:59:44:27 – 00:59:44:48
Phil Gerbyshak
Cool.
00:59:44:51 – 01:00:15:54
Agent Palmer
I don’t know if that makes me bossy or pushy or inspirational or helpful. Helpful as one. Helpful one. In fact, my buddy Bill, who I’m trying to get back on Mike, we met because I was helping. I was a fan of his and then I ended up helping on his show. He he always joked that I should have a business card, especially for the brand, because before I started my podcast, no one knew me as Jason, right?
01:00:15:56 – 01:00:35:26
Agent Palmer
Like I was Agent Palmer and that was it, right? I and I hid behind that quite a bit. And so all he knew me was, I mean, he knew my name, but like, I was Palmer. And so he always said that I should have a business card that said Agent Palmer. Helpful motherfucker. And just. That’s it. That’s just the business card, right?
01:00:35:33 – 01:01:05:20
Agent Palmer
There are times when I do. That’s the part I do miss that collaboration part. Maybe that’s why I’m pushing everybody to do their own thing, because I know they’ll ask for help and I’ll be able because this is a very lonely enterprise. Yeah, I like talking to you. But when you go away, when we stop recording, I edit by myself, and then I, I, I, and then I listen back by myself and I write the show notes and the intro and the outro, and I record that by myself, and then I promote it by myself.
01:01:05:22 – 01:01:15:50
Agent Palmer
And it’s not until I record the next episode with someone that I get to collaborate again. And so I’m pushing everybody else for their thing so I can help them with it.
01:01:16:05 – 01:01:18:04
Phil Gerbyshak
Pushing for collaboration sounds awesome.
01:01:18:07 – 01:01:23:57
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I guess I guess that’s my next that’s my next leap is I want to get back to the collaboration part.
01:01:23:59 – 01:01:26:11
Phil Gerbyshak
Awesome. That sounds like fun.
01:01:26:16 – 01:01:39:06
Agent Palmer
You know what that’s I do I, I put I have a pride in my work. I enjoy what I do. It’s not nearly like. And it is fulfilling, but it’s not as fulfilling as with someone.
01:01:39:18 – 01:01:40:13
Phil Gerbyshak
Sure.
01:01:40:17 – 01:01:41:27
Agent Palmer
Same and.
01:01:41:27 – 01:01:42:11
Phil Gerbyshak
I.
01:01:42:16 – 01:01:45:53
Agent Palmer
I yeah, I mean, I feel like I’m preaching to the choir.
01:01:45:58 – 01:01:46:43
Phil Gerbyshak
Yes, sir.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).