Episode 177 featuring Abby Stason, whose job titles and occupations are as varied as the stars, but we do talk about what she’s up to now, how she arrived there and what it’s like having a moment of self-reflection after running past a jogger in heels to catch the ferry.
Mentioned and Helpful Links from This Episode
Other Links
Sixty years later, ‘Stranger in a Strange Land’ might be essential anthropology reading
Manga Date Night: Reawakening the Otaku in Me
An Avid Reader’s Guide to a Methodical Book Purge
Music created and provided by Henno Heitur of Monkey Tongue Productions.
–End Show Notes Transmission–
–Begin Transcription–
00:00:00:04 – 00:00:20:56
Agent Palmer
Previously on Agent Palmer. 60 years later, stranger in a Strange Land might be essential anthropology. Reading another married and dating post from Mrs. Agent Palmer. Now with more otaku. And have you been asking why more since last episode. This is The Palmer Files episode 177 featuring Abby Station, whose job titles and occupations are as varied as the stars.
00:00:20:56 – 00:00:32:38
Agent Palmer
But we do talk about what she’s up to now, how she arrived there, and what it’s like having a moment of self-reflection after running past a jogger in heels to catch the ferry. Are you ready? Let’s do the show.
00:00:32:43 – 00:00:39:26
Abigail Stason
How do I want to be spending my day to day? How do I want to contribute in the world?
00:00:39:31 – 00:00:49:33
Abigail Stason
That’s a great question, because that’s that’s a razor’s edge for me. Used to be. Let me say that. So I’m a reformed rescuer.
00:00:49:37 – 00:00:57:01
Abigail Stason
I can remember pulling over on the 101 on a Monday morning and breathing into a paper bag, going. What did you just do?
00:00:57:06 – 00:01:06:12
Abigail Stason
I couldn’t keep up with how fast it wanted to happen. It’s because I got out of the way and listened to what one has to happen next.
00:01:06:17 – 00:01:12:17
Abigail Stason
So here I am, running in my heels and I passed a runner.
00:01:12:22 – 00:01:36:56
Agent Palmer
Hello and welcome to The Palmer Files. I’m your host, Jason, also known as Agent Palmer. And on this 177th episode is Abigail Stassen. Or Abby as she prefers. So this doesn’t come up during the episode. But I first encountered Abby as someone asking about watching the tour de France Femmes on LinkedIn almost a year ago. I let her know how I watched that particular race, and then through looking at her very job history, I invited her on the show.
00:01:36:56 – 00:02:04:35
Agent Palmer
But I’m also happy I discovered her comment and answered it, because what you are about to hear is a wonderful conversation about non-linear career paths as well as burnout, deep listening, and finally finding her groove. All that, plus learning from toxic leaders, slowing down versus stopping, and the aforementioned passing. A jogger wearing high heels. But first, remember that if you want to discuss this episode as you listener, afterward, you can find all related ways to contact Abby and myself in the show notes.
00:02:04:35 – 00:02:25:05
Agent Palmer
You can contact Abby on her website. Abigail. That’s Stassen. Don’t forget, you can see all of my writings and rantings on aging. Palmer. Com and of course, email can be sent to the Palmer files at gmail.com. So without further ado, let’s get into it.
00:02:25:10 – 00:02:25:46
Agent Palmer
Abby.
00:02:25:46 – 00:02:27:34
Agent Palmer
You wear many hats.
00:02:27:41 – 00:02:54:35
Agent Palmer
Like so many hats. Like, author. Counselor? Probably many others. I mean, you’re obviously an entrepreneur as well, and a marketer and a bit like where a lot of hats. If I had met you at a party and I said, what do you do? What’s the one you’re leading with? Like. And we’re strangers, so you don’t know me.
00:02:54:35 – 00:03:03:32
Agent Palmer
You don’t know if I’m a potential client. You know nothing. It’s just. Oh, hey. Hi, Abby. What do you do? Like, what do you lead with? Like, what do you want me to know the most?
00:03:03:34 – 00:03:10:19
Abigail Stason
I equip human beings and leaders with behavioral skills for a global new world.
00:03:10:22 – 00:03:24:35
Agent Palmer
Okay? Okay. That’s that’s a lot. What you’ve you’ve you’ve come. This is the this is the end of your rainbow, right? Like this was the. This is the end of your. Well, not the end. But this is not where you started, correct?
00:03:24:35 – 00:03:32:40
Abigail Stason
Correct. I definitely didn’t start here, but I feel like I’m in my groove now and have been for quite a few years. And you just turned 60.
00:03:32:42 – 00:03:34:13
Agent Palmer
And you’ve worked for other people.
00:03:34:15 – 00:03:42:08
Abigail Stason
Yep, I did, I left the got out of college and went to the corporate world, worked for a small bank, and then I worked for Wall Street.
00:03:42:10 – 00:03:42:46
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:03:42:49 – 00:03:45:00
Abigail Stason
And which usually shocks people.
00:03:45:00 – 00:04:05:06
Agent Palmer
Well, leading to this question, which is now you work for yourself, having done it for an amount of time, do you go, man, this would have been great to do it like this. Like, did you need everything else? Some people need it. Some people don’t like, did you need all the other stuff to appreciate working for yourself or.
00:04:05:11 – 00:04:33:00
Abigail Stason
Did I need it? I don’t know that I needed it, but I do like to have different experiences. So I’m really grateful for my corporate experience and working for others and working with teams. But then I was in California and I meant a ton of entrepreneurs, and I thought it would be nice to experience that also okay, to get a different feel and also, yeah, to work for myself to see what that feels like.
00:04:33:02 – 00:04:57:49
Abigail Stason
It’s edgy, you know, you’re, you know, you have to go out and make money and, and prospect on your own. But I just thought it was a great experience to complement what I’d already done. I like to have a variety of experiences. So did I need, you know, I don’t did I need it? But I feel like it was all outlined perfectly for me at the time that I left and wanted to become an entrepreneur.
00:04:57:49 – 00:05:00:29
Abigail Stason
So I had nothing to lose. I had nothing to lose.
00:05:00:29 – 00:05:32:18
Agent Palmer
So the thing you said about wanting the different experiences is the exact reason I’m thankful that I had a crappy fast food job and I had a crappy retail job, because I think that those experiences, I mean, I ended up in the nonprofit world and then, well, here I am. Like, it wasn’t like I didn’t really find I never found my footing, if I’m being honest.
00:05:32:23 – 00:05:55:17
Agent Palmer
But that foundation in service and retail and food, like those are the alternatives. That’s what you know, I’ve been there, so I now know I don’t want to go back and I need that base level. I think that base level is so important. And it obviously it also taught me a lot about the leader I don’t want to be.
00:05:55:24 – 00:06:16:49
Abigail Stason
Yes, absolutely. I always say I personally have learned a lot from the people I don’t want to be. Yeah. And from the people I do want to emulate. Right. So yeah, you can learn. It’s in my opinion, my experience and actually share this with clients. And you can learn a lot from toxic leaders, you know, and what not to do, how not to behave.
00:06:16:51 – 00:06:52:13
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I said it was. So I spent I mean the fast food was only say two and a half years. It was like my first real job as like a late teen. Yeah. But retail was where I landed after college for seven years, where I always joked, and I guess it could still be a thing that, like having seen so many people go through the assistant manager or manager roles, I could easily write a book about how not to be a leader.
00:06:52:18 – 00:07:13:43
Agent Palmer
I mean, I think I had two genuinely good, empathetic leaders in my seven years there, which was probably 15 different people of all. I don’t know if that’s everybody’s experience with that. I mean, not everybody’s in there for seven years. But the math on that is astounding for how many people I learned what not to do.
00:07:13:48 – 00:07:45:41
Abigail Stason
That’s a great topic we’re talking about, and I’m reflecting on my own experience. I think my ratio is a little bit higher than yours. But I always tell people, well, first of all, people don’t leave their jobs. They leave their manager, okay, for the reasons we’re talking about. And, you know, my experiences have had a couple of pretty horrible, you know, 3 to 5 really horrible managers, leaders, bosses, whatever term we’re using.
00:07:45:44 – 00:08:04:52
Abigail Stason
And it’s awful. Yeah. And if that gets to be the ratio and the hit the hit on that, it gets to be too high, then it’s time to make a change. But but it’s you know, and it goes back to it goes back to basically what I teach too is we’re we’re really not taught how to lead and manage people.
00:08:04:52 – 00:08:14:13
Abigail Stason
We’re taught the what of the world. Like retail. We’re taught how to sell widgets, how to sell products. We’re not really taught how to behave while we’re selling products.
00:08:14:15 – 00:08:46:28
Agent Palmer
Well, it’s it’s it’s the weirdest thing because it goes to a generalization that I have friends that have moved up the corporate ladder over the last maybe 20 years, and they’re always amazed at how many people fail upwards. And I, I my for in full context, my mother was an entrepreneur. She was a consultant specifically related to internal marketing.
00:08:46:40 – 00:09:20:43
Agent Palmer
And so when I was five and six and seven and eight, as a captive audience for my mother to practice some of her speaking things, too, I picked up a few things. And so I tell these friends, you know, this horrible manager you have was really good at the job you currently have. And they went, you can be in charge now, and that’s a reward to that person for being good at your existing job.
00:09:20:47 – 00:09:46:48
Agent Palmer
But they don’t ask or you good with people. They go, we would like to reward you for doing a good job here. Be in charge. And most people I find will not say, no, don’t give me the promotion. They will be okay. I’ll. I’ll do that. That sounds you know, it’s more money. It’s more responsibility. Both of those things go hand in hand, but most people are like.
00:09:46:48 – 00:10:17:06
Agent Palmer
But it’s. I’m moving up the ladder. This is great. And then they stagnate because they they’re not selling anymore. Now you’re managing a team. You’re managing people. You’re not selling the widgets, so to speak. And I think until you see it or it happens to you and you get to that point where you’re below a bad manager, not a bad person.
00:10:17:06 – 00:10:27:43
Agent Palmer
We’re not saying that, but just a bad manager. You don’t believe me when I say, you know, like, I think some of my friends had to experience it to really understand what I was talking about.
00:10:27:46 – 00:10:37:43
Abigail Stason
That’s that feels true to me, too. You know, you go from you start out typically as an individual contributor, then you go to manager.
00:10:37:57 – 00:10:38:19
Agent Palmer
Yep.
00:10:38:21 – 00:10:52:06
Abigail Stason
And then you go to leader. Yeah. So yeah. And there’s different levels within each of those roles if you will. And so as an individual contributor that role is going to be different than a manager is going to be different than a leader.
00:10:52:16 – 00:11:11:38
Agent Palmer
Do you find because this is the thing that I always am astounded by. A lot of these promotions happen out in the open, but with very little education, like, you know what I mean? Like Abby, we would we would like you’ve been salesperson of the year five years in a row. We would like you to lead the team.
00:11:11:41 – 00:11:25:14
Agent Palmer
And then we give you the keys to your new corner office. And no education about actually managing a team. We just we just hope that your sales experience can be passed down to everyone else. Is that.
00:11:25:16 – 00:11:41:44
Abigail Stason
I mean, in an ideal world, the, you know, the company provides training, leadership development, training and development so that if you you’re an individual contributor and want to be a manager, that you get some training for that. And then if you’re a manager and want to become a leader.
00:11:41:56 – 00:11:42:23
Agent Palmer
You get some.
00:11:42:23 – 00:12:03:14
Abigail Stason
More director, VP, etc. then you get some more training. You know, the world is not a perfect place, as you know. So you know, not all companies have the budget to provide that or the wherewithal to provide that, or the pressure from the market doesn’t provide that. But I feel there’s a shortfall of investment in the people’s side.
00:12:03:14 – 00:12:38:38
Abigail Stason
And we’re seeing that now. All these soft skills and other skills that are needed really create. When they’re not trained effectively and developed, it creates a lot of downtime. And that then in turn affects sales and production and efficiency and all that. So when we don’t focus on the people, the what, the business side suffers greatly. There’s an ROI on training and developing people, and we just haven’t gotten to the point where we’re convinced of that, which is shocking to me, because if you have, let’s use your scenario.
00:12:38:48 – 00:12:59:25
Abigail Stason
Okay? Let’s let’s say it’s a company of 50,000 people or even like 25,000 people. And there’s five companies like that across the US. And let’s say you have 1000 managers at each company and not ramping up into a manager that’s ours. And like, do the math. We can do the math on that and then take the salaries. That’s millions and millions and millions of dollars.
00:12:59:34 – 00:13:05:00
Agent Palmer
Yeah. And they got there by being good at something else, which is.
00:13:05:03 – 00:13:27:49
Abigail Stason
Yeah, yeah. You’re talking about the Peter Prince. So that’s the Peter Principle. Yeah. They’re good at something else. So and you know that that inherently to me is a positive good thing. It’s like Jason you’re doing great. It’s sales. We we we want to reward you for that and promote you. So let’s make you a manager. But then you know, but then it’s, you know.
00:13:27:52 – 00:13:47:10
Abigail Stason
Okay. Wait. Well, I love the. Yeah, I’m going to take the promotion. Yeah. Of course, like you said. But then it’s like, okay, what am I doing now? What’s my what, how is my role different? And if the company doesn’t provide that it’s really up to each each of us as individuals to say, okay, what are my gaps.
00:13:47:15 – 00:13:47:53
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:13:48:05 – 00:13:48:48
Abigail Stason
That’s hard to do.
00:13:48:51 – 00:14:15:03
Agent Palmer
Well, to do. So I let’s see if I can. Cliff notes this I was in retail for seven years. Then I landed into a nonprofit marketing gig for nine, and then leadership changed. And basically anybody who had anything to do with the old was gone. And I, I was let go at that point. And then and that was a, I was marketing, but I was also it.
00:14:15:03 – 00:14:38:38
Agent Palmer
So I had a hybrid role and I, I was the first one of my cohort of that purge to get a job in it. And then that kind of dwindled off right before Covid. So I was only there for like a year or maybe less. And then Covid happened and I was well, I was in the middle of a job search during Covid, which was a horrible thing to do.
00:14:38:38 – 00:14:59:39
Agent Palmer
And I was like, all right, well, I’m, I’m just going to consult, so to speak, for a little bit because I’ve had a side business for 18 years now. I think I’m just doing whatever I could to help. Basically, at one point it was building websites. Now it’s editing podcasts. I’m sure at some point it was marketing and strategy.
00:14:59:44 – 00:15:22:04
Agent Palmer
And so I’ve kind of fallen back on that, but along the way, not because of this podcast, but, you know, it’s helped. I’ve talked to a lot of different kinds of people, and I did do some career. Coaching at one point and I did read some, I guess, self-help books, career self-help books that have you examine your gaps.
00:15:22:07 – 00:15:44:00
Agent Palmer
Right. So I have personally, at different times, kind of taking a look at what my gaps may or may not be. And I am the best and worst example for anyone who’s a coach, because I’m willing to tell you that I’m not really good at I don’t want to be a leader, although other people will tell you I can do it.
00:15:44:03 – 00:16:01:09
Agent Palmer
And I don’t know if that says I don’t know what that says about me. That’s a whole different thing. But I will tell you that a lot of the time, when you want to discover what your gaps are, a lot of the X exercises start with where do you want to be? Or what do you want to be?
00:16:01:11 – 00:16:31:29
Agent Palmer
And this has been my biggest hurdle because at as we as we record right now at more than 40 years of age, I have no clue. Like, am I happy with the things I’m doing now? Yes. Are they what I want to be doing? I don’t know. And so I can tell you a few of the gaps I have in that kind of where my skills lack, but I don’t know in relation to what.
00:16:31:34 – 00:16:52:22
Agent Palmer
And so that’s kind of my big hurdle. And I think part of it is. Im being honest when I say that and I, I, I challenge a few of my friends who are in big corporate things going like, but is this where you want to be like, you went to school for history and writing and now you’re in insurance?
00:16:52:23 – 00:17:06:58
Agent Palmer
Like, I understand you have a good job, but that’s not the question. Is this where you want to be? So when people like, if I was going to be a client of yours, if you were to ask me, here’s my answer. Abby, I don’t know.
00:17:07:03 – 00:17:30:42
Abigail Stason
That’s okay. Yeah. That’s okay. Yeah, that’s absolutely okay. That’s where you start then. So then the question is, okay, what do I want? Now that can be a very broad question, but really what we’re talking about and you mentioned you’re 40 now. You know, at 40 is a good time to sit down and say what is it that I enjoy doing.
00:17:30:44 – 00:17:49:39
Abigail Stason
Like what are my values? Okay. What’s important to me. So that’s the first step. So I’m going to get quite tactical with you because like everything we’re talking about it simply involves a skill okay. So we’re talking you know you know we’re going to get a little bit into behavior and all that. But my experience is like every question I have can be resolved with a skill.
00:17:49:41 – 00:18:13:04
Abigail Stason
So there’s a formula for it okay. First of all, look, now that you’ve been in the workforce and had some experience, you can start to ask questions like, okay, what is it that I really enjoy doing? What are my values as a human being? Everything from like, what do I value in myself? Like trust you’re being real to, you know, I have to be close to the outdoors.
00:18:13:06 – 00:18:14:27
Abigail Stason
That’s one of my values.
00:18:14:30 – 00:18:15:01
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:18:15:03 – 00:18:40:07
Abigail Stason
So so I, you know, I worked in Manhattan. What did I do? I left Manhattan, went to California because, like, I have to I have to have the outdoors. So that was a that’s an easy one. But that’s a simple example. So you figure out what your values are and then you figure out what you actually enjoy doing in the day to day, because that’s where then individual contributor, manager, leader, entrepreneur and all of that will help resolve that and answer that.
00:18:40:09 – 00:19:01:25
Abigail Stason
Okay. What is it I actually like to do? So I good exercise is to sit down and say, okay, clean slate regardless of money, kids, anything, get the whiteboard out. If I won the lottery tomorrow, what would I do? And it’s not now I quit and go to Hawaii. That’s not what I’m looking for. It’s like we get in our own way because we say we can’t in all that.
00:19:01:25 – 00:19:06:58
Abigail Stason
But you just sit down and say, how do I want to be spending my day to day? How do I want to contribute in the world?
00:19:07:00 – 00:19:30:54
Agent Palmer
Well, I can answer some of that very easily now, because if money was no object, I would probably be doing a variation of what I’m doing now. I would write for the blog, I would have my own podcast, and I would try and help others do whatever it is they’re doing. I’m, you know, helping with a podcast I believe in.
00:19:30:54 – 00:19:54:38
Agent Palmer
I’m really trying to get three of my friends to get back into the creative space in various ways. And, well, I mean, I was volunteering on boards for nonprofits that went away because I have a one year old. And I was like, all right, something’s got to give here, but I wouldn’t, I, I also go like to the people that are like, oh, money’s no object.
00:19:54:38 – 00:20:24:36
Agent Palmer
I’m going to Hawaii. Like, I, I need to do stuff like I maybe that’s just me. I don’t know, I just, I, I couldn’t I mean, the story I’d like to tell is I had my full time job doing nonprofit marketing, which is 40 hours a week, and I bought a house. And when in the process of moving from my apartment to my house, I stopped writing, my blog just completely stopped.
00:20:24:37 – 00:20:45:59
Agent Palmer
And so I decided when I was settled that I wouldn’t just write once a week, I would write twice a week for a rolling year, and it would start in November and move along because I was like, well, I have everything settled ish now. So I was like, I’m going to overachieve instead of once a week, let’s do twice a week for a full year.
00:20:46:04 – 00:21:10:26
Agent Palmer
And well, that would be 104 posts for a normal person. But I had a I had a 40 hour week, but I’m a stupid, ridiculous overachiever. I went 124 because of course I did, right? And then I decided I was going to take a week off from everything the blog. I had worked ahead enough the the, the main job, the whole thing.
00:21:10:29 – 00:21:31:25
Agent Palmer
I wasn’t going to do anything. I lasted half a day. I was like, I’m not going to write. I’ve just been writing all the time. I’m not going to do anything. I lasted half a day. I read some comic books. I read a couple chapters of whatever novel I was reading. I watched a movie, and then I went, I got to do something that’s simple.
00:21:31:28 – 00:21:59:38
Abigail Stason
Well, yeah. Okay. So now now we’re getting. Yeah. Now we’re getting into the ability to the skills to integrate and to rest and to have a still mind. So now we’re getting into the ability to be still and listen to what action wants to happen. Because if you so you overachieved on the blogs. Yep I heard okay. So then I would think you’d want to reward yourself with something fun.
00:21:59:38 – 00:22:25:34
Abigail Stason
Not that the blogging, the blogging is probably really satisfying, but at some point you want to integrate. So integrating and experience is important. It’s like resting and integrating so you can move on to the next thing. If you can’t sit still, that’s always, in my experience, problematic. Well, not horribly problematic, but you’re here. I’m hearing you’re a contributor, so am I.
00:22:25:36 – 00:22:34:57
Abigail Stason
You’re you know, you’re on the on the on the call. I’m inherently a contributor. Of course I am. Yeah. What I find that people can’t be still.
00:22:35:02 – 00:22:35:29
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:22:35:31 – 00:22:42:35
Abigail Stason
And they get into a lot of motion. And the motion. Then the question is, is that motion really want to happen? Are you antsy?
00:22:42:40 – 00:23:00:25
Agent Palmer
I think I oversimplified it being like like getting off a boat. You still feel the motion of the of the ocean, so to speak. I think I was I was I was writing, I was writing, I was writing, I was writing, and then I was like, oh, I’m going to take a break from all this. And it was like, I mean, you can slow down.
00:23:00:25 – 00:23:24:30
Agent Palmer
But stopping altogether that I think was inherently my mistake. Not I mean, in hindsight, obviously at the time I was like, maybe I just can’t take a break. But now it was probably like, well, you should have allowed yourself to do some writing if you like. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t find writing tedious, obviously. Otherwise that would have been the worst year of my life.
00:23:24:33 – 00:23:28:54
Agent Palmer
Like, what’s going on? Why would anybody want that if it’s not fun?
00:23:28:57 – 00:23:50:46
Abigail Stason
I love you so. I love your getting off the boat and still feeling the boat analogy. I’m going to use that. I’ll give you full credit. That’s an excellent analogy because if you’re running intensely then you get off the boat. You are still going to feel the boat because you’re coming off that wave of activity. Now the wave of activity was quite long.
00:23:50:46 – 00:24:08:33
Abigail Stason
It can be long or short. Yeah. Okay, so yours was quite long. That’s okay. So it’s you know, it sounds like for you your integration process would be more to like step off the boat keeps in motion going to get your see you know, your sea legs back, your land legs back. Right.
00:24:08:35 – 00:24:09:16
Agent Palmer
Exactly.
00:24:09:18 – 00:24:25:22
Abigail Stason
So this is where. Yeah. So instead you stop cold turkey. So you’re off the boat and you’re like, wait a minute. I can still feel the boat rocking, but I’m trying to act like the boat’s not rocking. And let me ask you a question. So when you when you were in the intensity of it. This is a question.
00:24:25:22 – 00:24:35:38
Abigail Stason
I’m curious. Yeah. Do you feel like you were breathing in flow, or did you feel like you were running? Running a adrenaline so all known as epinephrine?
00:24:35:41 – 00:25:00:41
Agent Palmer
I think that on a whole. I try to be a fairly organized person and that that that’s that’s mainly true most of the time. Right. Okay. But I’m not like, always super organized. Sometimes, you know, it’s like, oh, it’s been a while. It’s time to clean off the desk. And then I can maintain or like I can stay organized or whatever.
00:25:00:41 – 00:25:28:47
Agent Palmer
So to answer your question, it was a full year, I think that there were some good weeks where like it was in the flow and it would flow and I would write one post a night, maybe let’s on average, you know, and there were other times when, you know, a block would hit or I’d have a really like a really long post, and then all of a sudden it’s like, oh, that’s tomorrow, tomorrow’s post is done, but I don’t have anything for Thursday or whatever.
00:25:28:49 – 00:25:59:45
Agent Palmer
Right. Like later in the week, I’m, I’m, I’m tapped out. I’m no longer ahead of the game. And I think throughout the course of that year it ebbed and flowed from being ahead to, you know, it’s 3 a.m. the night before your test is do your essays, do it in high school, right? Like so. I think it ebbed and flowed between both on on a whole, I think it was probably more I was ahead and I was able to stay in the flow state, but I think there was definitely at least a few times over that year where there was anxiety of like, oh my.
00:25:59:48 – 00:26:14:39
Agent Palmer
Am I going to drop the ball here? Like, am I not going to have anything for maybe not tomorrow, but I don’t know. I don’t remember it ever being like, oh, I need to write something for tomorrow. But there was definitely like a I need to write something for a day from now or whatever.
00:26:14:39 – 00:26:42:07
Abigail Stason
It sounds like there’s an opportunity for you when I when I’m listening to you and hearing what you’re saying for me, what I learned in it sounds like there’s an opportunity for you to check it out. I don’t want to project on you, but there seems to be an opportunity where you learn how to integrate in shorter amount of time, rather than working a whole year and then stopping like, can there be there can be moments of integration or a day of integration?
00:26:42:09 – 00:27:15:24
Agent Palmer
Well, yeah, I’ve, I’ve well, I’ve turned. So what I learned from that year has been to. Well I mean I’m a big proponent of striking while the irons hot and that’s just that’s just the nature of the creativity so to speak. Right. And and here’s the thing, I, I rely on guests for this show. And while it’s not necessarily creativity, I will find that I will record seven episodes in seven weeks and then I’ll just I’ll get eight people to say yes.
00:27:15:24 – 00:27:32:59
Agent Palmer
And scheduling won’t work out for another five, right? But I’m still technically ahead to. Right. So I’m always trying to work ahead. And I guess the same is true for the blog, where it’s like, I will write and write and write and write, but then all of a sudden either a long post will happen or, you know, you get sick or what?
00:27:33:11 – 00:28:02:31
Agent Palmer
Something life happens. But I always have a built in buffer for the most part. So that way when I am still or when I just can’t answer, won’t or whatever the issue is, I have a built in buffer from when the times were good, when it was easy, so to speak, that I can, I can. Whether the writer’s block, the lack of scheduling with guests, the what have you.
00:28:02:35 – 00:28:13:39
Agent Palmer
And I learned that along the way that I mean, I didn’t I didn’t start the podcast in the blog going, well, if I work ahead, I can weather out like, no, I mean, you just again, you learn that along the way.
00:28:13:49 – 00:28:25:46
Abigail Stason
Yeah. And that’s I think that’s what you’re saying is the most important thing is what are you learning about yourself along the way? That’s what I’m, you know, it’s like it’s a journey. Not to sound corny, but.
00:28:25:48 – 00:28:50:44
Agent Palmer
Well, it has. But if it’s not a journey, then then, like, where are you going? You know, like crazy. That’s good point. Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s just, you know, I mean, so I’m going to turn it around on you for a second because you, you, you jumped in like the coaching. You came out so quickly. And I appreciate that.
00:28:50:44 – 00:29:13:26
Agent Palmer
And I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m the helper in me also tends to come out really quickly. Right. Were you and I. And I will be the first to admit I was not always this way. The helper and me was not like, you’re like, maybe a decade ago, maybe in my 30s, if we had met and you had said, like, I’m having a problem in marketing, like the first thing I would have been like is, well, how can I help, right?
00:29:13:29 – 00:29:26:45
Agent Palmer
Like, that’s only in the last decade, let’s say. Have you always been like a helper, like a like have you always been able to jump in and just start helping, or is that as as with me, did it evolve?
00:29:26:59 – 00:29:35:32
Abigail Stason
That’s a great question because that’s that’s a razor’s edge for me. Used to be let me say that. So I’m a reformed rescuer okay.
00:29:35:37 – 00:29:36:03
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:29:36:06 – 00:29:57:19
Abigail Stason
Yeah. So I’m a reformed hero. So I used to step in a lot and wear myself. Right. Run myself out. That’s one of the reasons I left Wall Street. I was really headed to burn out. No one knew. I mean, I was just running myself ragged. Now it’s just a way that I live. So when people are talking about behavior, I could have everything.
00:29:57:21 – 00:30:12:13
Abigail Stason
Every response I gave to you, I could have just made about me. That’s why I said, like, here’s what I notice about me, okay? So what? Everything you’re saying is familiar to me, so I just yeah. So I was like, okay, well, I have my own experience of that. And here’s what I’ve noticed. But yeah, I’m definitely a reformed hero.
00:30:12:23 – 00:30:22:49
Abigail Stason
And part of the drama that I used to get into headaches, neck pain, shoulder pain, running a lot of adrenaline in the corporate world, no one knew, but no one knew.
00:30:22:51 – 00:30:26:12
Agent Palmer
Did you know? Where were you? Just so. I mean.
00:30:26:20 – 00:30:48:52
Abigail Stason
That’s great. That’s. Yeah. Great question. I knew that. So now I’m happy to put words to it and I’m happy to put words true for years now. I left Wall Street in 2010, but I was here actually, what happened as I was working in lower Manhattan and I was working in two World Financial Center, actually four World Financial Center, not just after Trade Towers.
00:30:48:52 – 00:31:08:12
Abigail Stason
This went down 2004 to 2006. So I lived in Jersey, okay. Took the train of Hoboken and the ferry over, you know, the lower Manhattan. So I was coming home one day, you know, you wouldn’t recognize me now. High hair, blue suit, high heels, briefcase, the whole thing. You can just go ahead and put the stereotype on me.
00:31:08:15 – 00:31:30:04
Abigail Stason
So it’s leaving the building. And I knew I was going to just miss the ferry. And it’s not very far. So here I am, running in my heels, and I passed a runner in running shoes. So I got on the ferry. I made the ferry. I sat down on laughing now, but I was like, okay, this is unhealthy.
00:31:30:08 – 00:31:34:59
Abigail Stason
This has to stop. I just passed a runner and I’m in my heels.
00:31:35:01 – 00:31:37:54
Agent Palmer
I mean, that’s your movie moment, by the way. Like, that’s.
00:31:37:59 – 00:31:53:10
Abigail Stason
It was it was. I can still see it. I know exactly where I was, the springtime. It wasn’t snowy and I know exactly where I was. I’m looking at it right now. This wasn’t an Olympic runner, okay? You know, it was just a jogger. But I’m in high heels. Yeah, a business in my brain.
00:31:53:12 – 00:32:14:39
Agent Palmer
And you weren’t. You didn’t stretch. It’s not like you were prepared for a run. You know, this is a year, and you passed someone who probably stretched or at least near, you know, eight a diet so they could, you know, get ready and go and okay. So dangerous question. If you’re on time for the ferry, are you still in Wall Street right now?
00:32:14:44 – 00:32:28:34
Agent Palmer
Like, was that the moment that was your butterfly flaps its wings and now I leave Wall Street. And if you if you make the ferry on time for like the meeting doesn’t go long and you leave and you don’t have to run in your heels and pass the jogger.
00:32:28:39 – 00:32:33:29
Abigail Stason
I know I’ll say that was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
00:32:33:31 – 00:32:34:48
Agent Palmer
Okay, okay.
00:32:34:50 – 00:32:58:13
Abigail Stason
You know, I knew something was up, but that was that was the moment when I’m like, okay, I’m just running myself ragged. Like, I just, I just I didn’t even have that much. I just was like, okay. I can’t remember sitting down. We’re crossing into Hoboken on the river. I’m just like, this has got to change. This is not, you know, like, this is just not this is not working for me anymore.
00:32:58:15 – 00:33:11:46
Abigail Stason
I didn’t even have an, you know, it was so solid and truthful that I didn’t even need to expand on it. I’m like, this has got to change. Okay. I mean, it was it. There was lots of moments before that. Sure.
00:33:11:55 – 00:33:13:21
Agent Palmer
Well in hindsight built.
00:33:13:24 – 00:33:15:43
Abigail Stason
Yeah. Yeah. That built up to that in hindsight.
00:33:15:45 – 00:33:16:09
Agent Palmer
Yeah.
00:33:16:12 – 00:33:26:06
Abigail Stason
But that was it. I’m like okay. And then from that point forward I’m like, okay, I’m going to change this. And so I did. Shortly thereafter I made a move to California and some other things.
00:33:26:09 – 00:33:54:14
Agent Palmer
So this is where I’m most fascinated with your story. And I’ll say it sports. Right. Because your moment passing the jogger is what I like to call the equivalent of athletes, especially professional athletes retiring at 40. Right. Like 40s old in almost every professional sport. And all these guys, for the most part, you know, let’s say baseball or basketball.
00:33:54:14 – 00:34:17:18
Agent Palmer
They played it when they were kids. They played it in middle school and high school and college, and then they went professional and then they turned 40, 41. Whatever they they age out of the league, they’re they’re sitting next to you on the ferry. Right. And now it’s time for what’s next. And maybe this is because of where I’m at and trying to figure out exactly what’s next.
00:34:17:22 – 00:34:34:31
Agent Palmer
But how did you know California? How did you know, like, even just California, as an example. How would you know it was time to go west? Did you happen to see were you watching musicals? And it was like, all right, well, the musicals telling me to go west, so that’s what I’m going to like. What was it?
00:34:34:33 – 00:34:56:01
Abigail Stason
It’s a little bit. I don’t think I’ve ever told anyone this, and it’s not a big secret. I’m just laughing because I have it. When I was little, a little girl, there was a cartoon that was set in the redwoods. The I think it was Disney or something, because you know how they have the real background, but then cartoons come in through it.
00:34:56:03 – 00:35:07:41
Abigail Stason
Yeah, there was a big redwood with a hole in it that was shaped like a tunnel. Okay. And you could walk through it. Yep. And I was like, I want to live there.
00:35:07:51 – 00:35:09:41
Agent Palmer
Okay, okay.
00:35:09:46 – 00:35:32:28
Abigail Stason
I’m like, I want to live there. I love that, I want to live there. So then fast forward, I had visited California. Make a long story short, it actually took a job out there for a year during 2000 and 2001, during the tech debacle. Then happened out there, the bubble and the nine over 11. So I ended up moving back to the east.
00:35:32:30 – 00:35:49:53
Abigail Stason
But and after that I’m like, okay, yeah, ferry experience passing the runner in my heels. Then it then it started to be a bit of a process. I’m like, okay, where do I want to live? I’m like, I don’t want to live in the East Coast anymore. Born and raised love Manhattan, but I am just love the West Coast.
00:35:49:53 – 00:35:57:02
Abigail Stason
I love the mountains out here. I like the weather. And so I started to put my attention towards moving west.
00:35:57:07 – 00:35:57:33
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:35:57:36 – 00:36:13:18
Abigail Stason
So I had lived in California for a while for before, not for very long, but I had visited it and just love the outdoors. So I started to make steps towards okay, that’s where first of all, the question is like where do I want to be okay, West coast okay.
00:36:13:32 – 00:36:14:06
Agent Palmer
All right.
00:36:14:08 – 00:36:16:15
Abigail Stason
And that goes back to childhood.
00:36:16:15 – 00:36:18:25
Agent Palmer
When you saw the cartoon.
00:36:18:27 – 00:36:27:55
Abigail Stason
I know it sounds crazy. It sounds, but it just stuck with me that. Yeah, I wanted to live in California so that.
00:36:28:00 – 00:36:43:45
Agent Palmer
I, I started this conversation by asking you what you would say you do because you wear a lot of different hats. So I want to I want to ask you something different, which is, is there anything left you haven’t done that you want to do?
00:36:43:47 – 00:37:04:15
Abigail Stason
Wow, that’s a really great question. I just turned 60. I mean, not really okay. I don’t I don’t not really like I don’t have a huge desire. There’s not much unsettled in me. You know, I’m 20 years older than you. So when you get to be my age and I sound, I started to sound old. But I love my life.
00:37:04:17 – 00:37:21:55
Abigail Stason
I love what I do, I love my role I live in, I live in Southern Oregon now. I’m looking outside. There’s mountains around me. I don’t really have a huge urgency to travel a lot of places. When I think about a bucket list, I really don’t have one.
00:37:21:57 – 00:37:23:19
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I was thinking more in terms.
00:37:23:19 – 00:37:24:16
Abigail Stason
Of like day to day.
00:37:24:18 – 00:37:50:41
Agent Palmer
You’ve already written a book, right? Like, like, you know, like and that’s a, that’s a creative endeavor that a lot of people, I find a lot of people want to do but are afraid to start. So you’ve already done that, right? And it’s just like, all right, well, I like I feel like obviously we haven’t touched like there’s a lot more to your story, but like, it does feel like and, you know, this is another cliche we’re falling into.
00:37:50:43 – 00:38:13:16
Agent Palmer
But like 60s, not like if you and I go back right to when you were 40 and I was 20, 60 would have been old to both of us. And now, I’ll be honest, you saying you’re 60 doesn’t make me feel like you’re old. And me being 40 now doesn’t like I, I it just, you know, is is 60 the new 40?
00:38:13:18 – 00:38:26:43
Agent Palmer
I, you know, I guess every it’s individual to everyone else. But having known you for just an hour. No, you’re not like I, you know, you’ve you’ve still got what I would consider more than half your life left.
00:38:26:46 – 00:38:45:28
Abigail Stason
Oh, I’m. I’m getting my second wind. I’m starting my second wind, I mean. Yeah. Are there a few things I’d love to do? My. You know, I have a few things that I’m working on. Like I’m working on some online courses, you know, from a grand scale, I’d love to get the skills I teach in the hands of everyone because they just bring more peace and ease and freedom.
00:38:45:40 – 00:38:57:49
Abigail Stason
You know, on a tactical level, one of the things I’d love to build, I’m kind of reaching out to people and connections is a VR rage room. Okay? Yeah. Because, you know, rage rooms are all the rage and all smash rooms and.
00:38:57:49 – 00:39:02:27
Agent Palmer
All that. I love the idea because it gets out all the rage without to clean up. Like, that’s brilliant.
00:39:02:37 – 00:39:20:26
Abigail Stason
That’s right. Right. Thank you. So, so, you know, you have to get the gear. You have to get the things to smash. But in a VR headset, the sky’s the limit. You can choose your bat, you can choose your sledgehammer, choose different rooms and get your anger out, you know, so I definitely have things I want to do.
00:39:20:26 – 00:39:43:20
Abigail Stason
But yeah, so lots that I’m going to get done here and I’m just getting my second win. But I feel really peaceful and content and settled, so I don’t feel rushed to do anything. I don’t feel the doing of it all. It’s just like, stay in flow, see what shows up, support people and being more conscious so that they have more pieces and freedom and see where this second wind takes me.
00:39:43:22 – 00:40:07:45
Agent Palmer
I, I want to know, would you on the ferry believe what you’re saying right now? Like if you were to what you just said to me about being in a good place and being happy and content and knowing kind of the things you still want to do, but knowing you still have time to get there. And not a rush specifically, not a rush.
00:40:07:52 – 00:40:15:08
Agent Palmer
If you had time, traveled back to you on the ferry and said all these things, would you have believed yourself?
00:40:15:13 – 00:40:29:03
Abigail Stason
My answer is yes. The dialog back then is more about I don’t want to live this way anymore, and I’m not sure what it looks like to not live this way, but I know that I’m up for the jump off the cliff to find out.
00:40:29:05 – 00:40:29:31
Agent Palmer
Okay.
00:40:29:34 – 00:40:30:26
Abigail Stason
Does that make sense?
00:40:30:29 – 00:40:50:23
Agent Palmer
Yeah. No. Completely. Yeah. Because I yeah, it’s one of those things where, you know, I do often ask people like usually it’s not that specific. Usually it’s like if you told 12 year old you you were here, like, would you believe it? And a lot of people say no, because we were very different people back then. That’s before.
00:40:50:25 – 00:40:59:37
Abigail Stason
She was my 12 year old. I would say, hell no. Are we allowed to swear? Yeah. Like, you know, my 12 year old, I clueless.
00:40:59:39 – 00:41:02:34
Agent Palmer
Do you know what? Clueless. What did 12 year old you want to be?
00:41:02:37 – 00:41:13:36
Abigail Stason
Well, when I was little, I actually wanted to be a biomedical engineer. I wanted to help people that didn’t have limbs and build fake limbs for them, you know? Okay, replace their limbs and things like that.
00:41:13:38 – 00:41:15:48
Agent Palmer
All right. That’s. I mean, that’s very specific.
00:41:15:50 – 00:41:37:37
Abigail Stason
I know it is. It’s oddly specific. I know so so also, you know, so I’m 60. So I was born in 66. Right. So if I were born ten years ago, I definitely become an engineer. I’d be in Stem mathematics or something like that. Okay. But I was born in 66, so you have to think. So I’m 20 right around 1986.
00:41:37:42 – 00:41:57:21
Abigail Stason
Stem in women isn’t really a thing, you know, science, technology, engineering and mathematics, etc.. Yeah. So it’s like I don’t feel victime about it, but just I’m glad women have different opportunities than I did back then. So it just wasn’t something you heard about a lot. Okay. So if I were born, you know, ten years ago or even 15 years ago.
00:41:57:24 – 00:42:03:11
Abigail Stason
Yeah, I’d definitely be getting into I might even become a bio biomedical engineer. You know, you just don’t know.
00:42:03:14 – 00:42:10:18
Agent Palmer
That’s fair. Yeah, I wish I mean, were you an English illiterate? Writing a creative.
00:42:10:23 – 00:42:18:44
Abigail Stason
Wasn’t at all. No, I wasn’t at all. I wasn’t I was actually a management major, okay. At marine and management and finance.
00:42:18:46 – 00:42:24:10
Agent Palmer
Well, I mean, you you definitely followed that until you went to California. Yeah.
00:42:24:10 – 00:42:38:09
Abigail Stason
And that’s part of part of what we’re having this discussion, too, is because I was pretty much in a trance growing up. Like I didn’t really think, what do I like doing? What do I not like doing? What do I want my major to be? What do I not want it to be? I just kind of fell into it.
00:42:38:09 – 00:42:55:20
Abigail Stason
I went to Moravian because I got a little bit of money to play basketball, and it was close to home, so it was a bit in a trance, you know, not I don’t want to call that in a bad way. So, you know, I teach people to be conscious now. I was pretty unconscious. It’s all good. Like I’m not going to judge it or anything.
00:42:55:20 – 00:43:16:12
Abigail Stason
So I just went into management. It felt easy. And then okay, an a management degree, finance background. Well, why don’t I go work for bank and then why don’t I go work on Wall Street? You know. And that was kind of what you did also, you know, get into Wall Street. That was a big corporate sector. And I’m really grateful for that because I moved around the country on Wall Street.
00:43:16:12 – 00:43:34:23
Abigail Stason
I got to meet a lot of different business owners, family office people. You know, I talked to clients, all kinds of clients that did a whole bunch of different things. So I got a lot of exposure to different things through that job, which then led me to say, okay, now what do I want to do?
00:43:34:25 – 00:44:03:26
Agent Palmer
I mean, I, I have to say, I spend a lot of time, not as much anymore, but for a good portion of this podcast, maybe from its origin through episode one. Recently, my best friend had a job that he kind of hated, and I always talked to people who had changed. He’s changed jobs. Now he’s in a different place.
00:44:03:26 – 00:44:35:00
Agent Palmer
But I always talked to people that had changed something drastically like you did, and a lot of it was yours is the safest thing. Like most people had the death of a parent, the death of a like they had tragedy that made them reevaluate their life. And I know you said you were on your way towards burnout, but running past a jogger and heels is hardly the tragedy that most people need to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back and so, well, I don’t have to worry about him as much anymore.
00:44:35:05 – 00:44:57:30
Agent Palmer
I’m still enamored with the idea, because most of the people, and sometimes we’ve talked about it on the show directly, say none of my friends. I could have had an intervention. Without this tragedy. It wouldn’t have mattered. Like there would have the tragedy needed to be the straw. There was going to be no intervention. That changed me beforehand and agreed.
00:44:57:32 – 00:45:19:45
Agent Palmer
There’s a part of me that I need you to tell me that because it was frustrating for me as his friend to be like, I need you to change. And him being like, yeah, it’s fine. Like there’s always an excuse and I understand that, but you need to come to it on your own. Whether it’s passing a jogger or a tragedy of of your own, you can agree with me all you want.
00:45:19:57 – 00:45:23:28
Agent Palmer
I’m not going to change you. Words aren’t going to do it right.
00:45:23:33 – 00:45:48:12
Abigail Stason
Right. And so, you know, I had to get to my own breaking point. Yeah. You’re right. I didn’t have a massive tragedy, but I was, you know, experiencing body pain. And it was kind of unhealthy. I was energetic, I’m overall, but I was definitely headed to burn out. So luckily I didn’t burn out. But a lot of times it does take something really big for people to shake up and wake up, so to speak.
00:45:48:17 – 00:46:03:50
Abigail Stason
To say, okay, this is too much for me. So mine, mine was like the boiling front, the slow boiling frog. Okay, you know, other people go into the throw the frog and boiling water, it jumps out. Mine was like a slow, slow death if you.
00:46:03:50 – 00:46:05:30
Agent Palmer
Luckily, you got out in time.
00:46:05:38 – 00:46:24:34
Abigail Stason
Oh, yeah. I’m very happy I did. I mean, it was a gutsy move, you know. You know, I remember when I finally left after the crash in 2010. So I moved west and then. So that was between two. That was like 2005, 2006, the ferry ride. And then okay, shortly thereafter, I relocated to the West Coast in Seattle, Wall Street.
00:46:24:34 – 00:46:49:54
Abigail Stason
And then from there it was like 2010 I left. That was after the market crash. And then a little bit of this to my father was sick in 2009, so the market had crashed. My father got sick and died in 2009. And while I wasn’t, I wasn’t criticized for taking time off. I never really got a lot of support saying, take as much time as you need.
00:46:49:57 – 00:47:13:19
Abigail Stason
How can we support you? Don’t worry about work. You know, I got a couple of calls saying, when you coming back, you know, and my father’s on his deathbed. So that was that was like, okay, that was the final. I’m like, okay, that’s it. You know, I am going to leave. And but it was already in motion. But that was like the final final where I said, okay, this is enough.
00:47:13:21 – 00:47:14:57
Abigail Stason
And so I, you know, I left.
00:47:15:00 – 00:47:41:05
Agent Palmer
So I do want to ask, did the I mean, obviously you were still in Wall Street, but did the physical move from East Coast to West Coast, did that ease the, the, the the decision a little bit like, I mean, because obviously if you’re even remotely still in the shadow of New York, Wall Street is kind of like there as a ticking clock, like you’re always in its shadow.
00:47:41:08 – 00:47:43:13
Agent Palmer
Did did moving west help?
00:47:43:17 – 00:48:05:06
Abigail Stason
It helped dramatically. So a little bit about me or a lot about me. I had this such a strong preference for introversion that it could go to infinity and that would be far enough. So that’s also why I need the outdoors. I love Manhattan, I mean, it’s the best city in the world. It just rocks, but it’s too much concrete and honk and horns for me.
00:48:05:09 – 00:48:29:34
Abigail Stason
Okay? I need mountains, trees, fresh air. So that was the first step was, okay, where do I want to be? Let me move out there. And now that I’m getting a feel for the outdoors and all that, what’s next? And then came next was to leave really jump ship and start over. I mean, I can remember pulling over on the one on one in a Monday morning and breathing into a paper bag, going, what did you just do?
00:48:29:36 – 00:48:49:35
Abigail Stason
You just left 19 years and you have no financial cushion. You’re starting over because remember, the crash had happened and slaughtered all of our money, you know. So I had absolutely nothing to lose. But I was like, oh my God, what did you do? But I mean, I’m so glad I did. It’s just such a grand experiment to move towards my value set.
00:48:49:37 – 00:48:58:56
Abigail Stason
The people I want to be around, the things I want to be doing in the world, how I want to contribute, how I want to live, how I want to behave, all the things.
00:48:58:58 – 00:49:28:13
Agent Palmer
So I want to ask one final question. And it’s fairly simple, which is how comfortable are you with asking yourself what’s next now? Because obviously we’ve talked about your like points where what’s next was, you know, a pivotal thing. And now because you’re comfortable or you still comfortable with, you know, you know, taking a walk and being like, well what’s next?
00:49:28:16 – 00:49:31:28
Agent Palmer
Like is that still a comfort question?
00:49:31:32 – 00:50:00:02
Abigail Stason
Great question. And I’m appreciating your question because it gives me a chance to reflect on myself. It’s switches from what’s next to deep listening, because asking the question what’s next can also be a doing. So it’s shifted to this deeper listening of how can I be best used in the world without letting myself push, but rather listening? What wants to come next for me?
00:50:00:07 – 00:50:03:54
Abigail Stason
Okay. And I can give you an I can give you a specific example of that if you want.
00:50:03:57 – 00:50:04:40
Agent Palmer
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:04:45 – 00:50:22:44
Abigail Stason
Of course. I left Wall Street and was lived in the Bay, Northern California. So it was 2019 and I thought, something wants to change. Something wants to happen differently. I’m just going to listen. So it was it was I listened for like a good 12 months. I kept working and all that and like something wants to be different.
00:50:22:44 – 00:50:39:38
Abigail Stason
I’m not sure what it is, but something big is coming down the pike. In the meantime, I’m like, my mom is going to need help. So something wants to change for me and my mom’s going to want help. She’s in South Carolina. They had retired down there. So I trends in Beaufort, North Carolina, and I was talking to them.
00:50:39:38 – 00:50:52:59
Abigail Stason
I’m like, I think my mom’s going to need help. I’m not sure what’s going to happen here, but they’re like, why don’t you come visit here? So I did I flew over for the weekend. I’m like, yeah, this is where I meant to be next. I don’t know why, but I’m going to come here to the coast of North Carolina.
00:50:53:01 – 00:51:11:53
Abigail Stason
I’ll be six hours from my mom. I don’t I’m not sure why, but this feels right, so I did. I moved March of 2020, so I moved. I was scheduled to fly east March 31st. I moved it up by two weeks because I’m like, I’m never going to get out of here because Covid started to come into play.
00:51:11:58 – 00:51:33:42
Abigail Stason
So I flew on a red eye that Thursday night. Friday I arrived on the East Coast. The whole world shut down the next Monday, so it was perfect because my mom needed help. We moved her into assisted living, so I spent two and a half years just focusing on that. And then sure enough, after two and a half years, in fact, my mom said in a very beautiful conversation, I’m just summarizing it.
00:51:33:42 – 00:51:53:21
Abigail Stason
You did great when dad died. You did great with me. I know you love the West. Go for it. Much longer conversation, very much more beautiful. Okay, so then I was like, okay, where do I want to be next? Sounds like Ashland, Oregon, where my spiritual teacher is. So I flew out for a week to attend a retreat that I had planned, and I got out here.
00:51:53:21 – 00:52:11:49
Abigail Stason
I’m like, yeah, this is right. So then a week later, I call my friend. I’m like, look, there’s this apartment for rent. Can you go look at it? And she’s like, yeah, I’ll go look at it. I rented it on the spot. I was moved coast to coast in less than 30 days. Okay. I couldn’t I couldn’t keep up with how fast it wanted to happen.
00:52:11:49 – 00:52:29:10
Abigail Stason
It’s because I got out of the way and listened to what wanted to happen next. It’s just from listening or shifts from doing to deep listening.
00:52:29:15 – 00:52:49:35
Agent Palmer
From doing to deep listening may seem a little out there to many people, perhaps even new agey, but that’s a language thing that is sometimes associated with deep listening. The point of it is not new agey at all. The point is that we can all do better at getting out of our own way. What that actually means is purely a personal thing.
00:52:49:35 – 00:53:09:03
Agent Palmer
But start with listening to your world and yourself and see where it takes you. You don’t have to be asleep. You don’t have to go with the flow. That may work for some, but I know it does not work for everyone. Abby is a great example. I’m a work in progress, but I’m not forcing anything either. Do you need a coach like Abby?
00:53:09:05 – 00:53:30:39
Agent Palmer
It couldn’t hurt. But I can also say that at minimum, you should find someone who you can talk to who wants what is best for you, even if you aren’t sure what that is. Abby and I barely scratched the surface, but know that I have been where Abby is for some people, asking questions and trying to help them clarify their own path.
00:53:30:40 – 00:53:58:55
Agent Palmer
It’s not easy. It’s not easy at all. Even getting out of our own way and seeing what your world is pointing you towards, or your gut is telling you isn’t easy. We all carry the baggage of expectation from the status quo. It may be the thing that holds people back even more than finances and security. So take a deep breath, relax, and understand that the next step may not be easy, but most of life isn’t easy.
00:53:58:55 – 00:54:18:15
Agent Palmer
So why should following your own path by getting out of your own way be any different? Thanks for listening to The Palmer Files episode 177. And now for the official business. The Palmer Files releases every two weeks on Tuesdays. If you’re still listening, I encourage you to join the discussion. You can find all related ways to contact Abby or myself in the show notes.
00:54:18:15 – 00:55:19:24
Agent Palmer
You can connect with Abby on her website. Abigail. That’s Stassen. The music for this episode was provided by email, and comments can be sent to this show at The Palmer Files at gmail.com. And remember your home for all things Agent Palmer is Agent Palmer.
00:55:19:28 – 00:55:21:31
Agent Palmer
Abby, do you have one final question for me.
00:55:21:35 – 00:55:37:44
Abigail Stason
Will you asked me about me and my experience in being 60. I’m super curious with you now. You’re 40. What have you learned about yourself and what are your, you know, massive moments about yourself that have really been pivotal for you?
00:55:37:44 – 00:56:08:35
Agent Palmer
I think the first is, you know, I’m a I’m a new father and that’s apparently normal, like half of the people that I graduated college with or that are in my cohort had kids right out of college, way back in 2004. Ish. And the other half are having them now. Right. And and there’s this big, you know, you know, time doesn’t necessarily mean what it used to.
00:56:08:35 – 00:56:40:55
Agent Palmer
And specifically because I’m in that shoulder generation in between Gen X and millennial, where I still grew up with an analog childhood, which is why I feel more Gen X than millennial, because millennials had the internet along and I kind of grew up with it. And to that, I mean, the Gen X analog childhood was very similar to my parents, the boomer childhood, which was very similar to the every generation before that analog childhood experience was very specific.
00:56:40:55 – 00:57:01:15
Agent Palmer
And even though television changed over the course of that time, the media of the time, whether it be comic books or television or movies, portrayed certain things. You were going to go to college or get a job at a or go to a trade school, and then you were going to get married and have kids, and then you were going to work for a long time and retire like.
00:57:01:15 – 00:57:27:06
Agent Palmer
And so my generation specifically split with, like some of us didn’t go to college, some of us had kids, some of us didn’t. Some of us took a while to get married. And all all all of that is to say, the time has so much less meaning than it used to the template that maybe you or I saw within media of all kinds growing up.
00:57:27:06 – 00:58:08:54
Agent Palmer
And there was, let’s be real, there was a template, you know, and, and I know people are like, oh, but you’re just talking about the 50s and like The Jetsons and The Flintstones is like. But that was a template that existed for generation after generation in televisions and movies. Like, it just existed. And so having smashed that template for whatever reason, because we, you know, graduated in a, in a horrible market because, you know, not all of us found our soulmate in college or shortly thereafter because we ended up in retail for seven years and I wasn’t the only one before getting an actual corporate, you know, professional gig.
00:58:09:06 – 00:58:43:59
Agent Palmer
It’s kind of allowed me to view everything else as suggestions and guidelines. The template has officially been smashed to bits, right? And I know that I can say that because of the things around me and the things I’ve experienced, and I know that this is not necessarily something that everyone shares. But I think as the generations behind me tend to not follow in even our footsteps, my footsteps, I feel like more and more people are coming to the idea of, well, you know what?
00:58:44:04 – 00:59:03:17
Agent Palmer
You can have your first kid at 40, like that’s there’s, there’s, you know, that’s fine. And I, I, I didn’t get married until 40 something like, you know, I mean like, so I mean, we, we, we were living together. She moved in with Steph, moved in with me, and we were living together for seven years. We got married and had a kid within six months of each other.
00:59:03:20 – 00:59:28:18
Agent Palmer
Right. That’s again, we did it in the right order, but the templates a little bit skewed, right. And I think that’s kind of colored everything else because I, I was let go with seven other people that I thought were wonderfully qualified for their job, and it was just our association with the previous guy and all of us scattered to the wind and had vastly different experiences trying to figure out what’s next.
00:59:28:18 – 00:59:50:46
Agent Palmer
And while sometimes I’ll admit all of us were forcing it, we weren’t listening necessarily. I think that we were all still kind of following that existing template, like, oh, you were let go at this position. So you’re going to start looking at this position or whatever. I think I just threw that all away and it was around that point.
00:59:50:46 – 01:00:27:19
Agent Palmer
So when I started looking for jobs again before my my current freelance ish gig, part time gig kind of took hold and became a semi-permanent thing. I this is going to sound weird to a lot of people, but I would self-sabotage at job interviews and networking events, and I. I see it as self-sabotage from other people’s perspective. I truly, actually, I think I was just being honest and that was the self-sabotage you and I in this episode talk about me saying, I don’t know, a lot of people are uncomfortable with that.
01:00:27:24 – 01:00:54:44
Agent Palmer
I love the fact that of my best friends, some are older than you and some are younger than me, right? I have a wide variety, and within the age category of people I consider close to me, and they are comfortable with me saying, I don’t know when we have some serious conversations about where you want to be, but when people are nice enough to network with you and have a cup of coffee with you, they genuinely usually just want to help.
01:00:54:44 – 01:01:29:37
Agent Palmer
And they’re not comfortable with you saying, I don’t know because then they can’t help you, right? It’s just not necessarily the easiest thing and then it just becomes awkward. But I would also say that at job interviews where they like, oh, well, where do you see yourself in five years? Well, here I hope, like, I don’t like I this is the part of the template I don’t, I haven’t kind of smashed, which is well, Abby, if you want to hire me and I want to work for you enough to have applied, I would see myself still being here in five years.
01:01:29:40 – 01:01:55:57
Agent Palmer
Like, I don’t look at jobs as a stepping stones. That’s what I want to do. And it always confused me that like I. And so in hindsight it feels like self-sabotage. What do you want to do? I don’t know, where do you want to be here? Like, am I supposed to say I want your job? Like what? What I, I, I’m a simple person in that I just, I like to be creative in certain ways.
01:01:55:57 – 01:02:13:25
Agent Palmer
But when answering questions, the truth is always the easiest to answer. And it’s always the easiest to remember. I cannot think on the spot when you say, where do you want to be in five years? I don’t know, I would like a job and if I could be here for five years, that would be wonderful. Like I, I don’t, I don’t know, right.
01:02:13:27 – 01:02:29:22
Agent Palmer
And so that’s what I’ve learned is the template. Not for me apparently of I’ve already smashed it. I need to do a little bit more dismembering of it so I can, I guess, see what comes my way, so to speak.
01:02:29:24 – 01:02:43:16
Abigail Stason
Excellent. Yeah. And the people struggle with, I don’t know. I mean, it’s it’s tough. It sounds like you don’t. But people on the receiving end of that or be like, I can’t even imagine not knowing that that’s something they can’t even get into.
01:02:43:19 – 01:03:07:10
Agent Palmer
And I there is a part of me, I wonder if there’s a little envy because I am not afraid of it. And I to your point, like there are people that are very afraid of, I don’t know. And I’m just like, that’s, you know, that’s why I’m a reader. Like, because I’m searching like I want different things, like, give me all the books, let’s find out something.
01:03:07:10 – 01:03:11:38
Agent Palmer
But I don’t know, I shouldn’t be a dirty word, I just or a dirty phrase.
01:03:11:41 – 01:03:14:33
Abigail Stason
I don’t think it’s dirty. I think it’s just extremely scary.
01:03:14:38 – 01:03:26:52
Agent Palmer
Yeah, I guess that’s the. That’s what I’ve. Maybe that’s what I’ve learned. Like, it’s not scary to me. Maybe I need a little bit of do more homework on why it’s scary to everyone else, but no, it’s fine.
01:03:26:55 – 01:03:28:47
Abigail Stason
Well, so what are you loving about fatherhood?
01:03:28:49 – 01:04:15:30
Agent Palmer
Well, at the moment, the big, The big surprise is patience. I have some not something I would have thought before. The rest of it is just, Well, okay. I have patience in the moment, but I still have this massive impatience for the talking to start to find out what’s going on in that tiny little head. But, yeah, I guess I could always juggle a lot of things, but, you know, to peel back the curtain, Steph and I, just as you and I are recording the episode that’s about to go live that I’ve been working on is the one where Steph and I talk about having a one year old and the things, and
01:04:15:30 – 01:04:40:11
Agent Palmer
we do it from a parental perspective. I think the biggest thing is that we have no concept of what last year was like or two years ago. What was it like before we had a child, before we had another human in the house to take care of, and we have no concept of what that was, and life felt busy then, and I can tell you it’s 100% busier now.
01:04:40:11 – 01:05:01:22
Agent Palmer
I know that, I know it was never as busy back then as it is now, and I’m handling it. I think that’s the biggest thing I’ve learned is like, well, I mean, I guess I was prepared, I guess this was the right time for whatever. But like, my God, I don’t know what 3 or 4. If I don’t, I don’t know what.
01:05:01:29 – 01:05:09:55
Agent Palmer
I can’t remember what any of that was like. But I’m handling the same amount of stuff now. But, you know, I have a tiny human who relies on me for, like, everything.
01:05:09:55 – 01:05:14:02
Abigail Stason
Congratulations. That’s great. Great story. Love it.
–End Transcription–
This transcription was processed by PalmerTech 3.1 and may contain errors for HUMINT (human intelligence).